Latest / Dubious Creatures Presents / The Dubious Book Club Podcast Ep 3 - A Study in Drowning Part 1 (Preview)

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The Dubious Book Club Podcast Ep 3 - A Study in Drowning Part 1 (Preview) · Dubious Creatures Presents

• 0:00
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Dubious Book Club podcast,
• 0:05
  and I'm Aubrey, one of your hosts.
• 0:09
  Do other dubious creatures say hi?
• 0:12
  Sup. I'm dubious and a creature.
• 0:15
  I'm feeling so fucking dubious right now.
• 0:19
  Well, time to talk about the first half of A City and
• 0:24
  Drowning by Ava Reed. And before we get into things,
• 0:29
  just a quick warning. The content warnings for this
• 0:32
  book are alcohol, amputation, animal death, anxiety, attempted
• 0:36
  murder, blood drugs, prescription misogyny, PTSD,
• 0:40
  sexism, sexual assault, spiders, and violence.
• 0:42
  So take care of yourself and if you need to step away, please do
• 0:47
  that. But we will be discussing the
• 0:51
  1st 9 chapters. 8 chapters. Yes, 8 chapters I think.
• 0:58
  Oops. I went up to 10.
• 1:00
  I think I also went up to 10, so this one is like 17.
• 1:08
  I thought that's that's fair. What did the rest of you not
• 1:16
  just decide? You know what?
• 1:17
  Fuck it, I need to know well. OK.
• 1:23
  That's why. That's why I ended up reading 10
• 1:25
  chapters and not not no, I think I got up to 12.
• 1:32
  I don't know. I got somewhere here.
• 1:35
  No, don't worry, it gets worse. I'm aware.
• 1:39
  Oh yeah. I figured it would.
• 1:43
  Yeah, this book is fun for the whole family.
• 1:48
  I like this book a lot. It's really good.
• 1:51
  Super good. I I actually like this book too.
• 1:59
  I know, I know. Ingredients.
• 2:01
  What? I know, I know, it's not very
• 2:04
  fucking Internet of me to not have a dissenting opinion, but
• 2:07
  honestly? Dare you not be the grumpy
• 2:10
  person? The A Study of Drowning is
• 2:15
  definitely not a feel good book, at least not initially.
• 2:21
  I. Don't think it's going.
• 2:22
  To get better it it's not a bad read, it's not a bad read.
• 2:30
  Yeah, yeah. The way the book starts off is
• 2:33
  we have our protagonist Fe enrolled at architecture college
• 2:37
  because she couldn't get into literature school because.
• 2:40
  She's a woman. Because she's a woman and we
• 2:43
  are. We are in this sort of
• 2:47
  fictionalized, fancy like fantasy world that very highly
• 2:52
  mirrors our own with a lot of things.
• 2:55
  Six months ago, Emrus Meredin, the national author of Illyria
• 3:03
  Past and his estate, is looking for someone to come in and
• 3:09
  design a new house. And because Emrus is her
• 3:15
  favorite author, if he submits and it's accepted, I actually
• 3:22
  really like that that kind of just happened.
• 3:25
  Like it's in chapter 2. There's not like the first half
• 3:28
  of the book with her being like, I need to design the perfect
• 3:31
  thing and send it in. In the second-half of the book.
• 3:33
  Is that the the thing? It's just, Nope.
• 3:35
  We're going to get this out of the way so we get to the estate
• 3:39
  as fast as possible. Well, the estate.
• 3:41
  Is where all the secrets are kept and that's like that's what
• 3:44
  kept me turning pages. Honestly when when she does get
• 3:50
  the invitation out to the plot house, my first reaction was oh
• 3:55
  thank God this isn't dark academia.
• 3:58
  I was so worried for a second there.
• 4:01
  It is, but it isn't. Yeah, it's.
• 4:04
  It's not it. So the protagonist is an
• 4:09
  academic, and there are academic subjects discussed, certainly,
• 4:16
  but it's got more in line with a gothic mystery or slash romance
• 4:23
  than it does like an actual dark academia book.
• 4:25
  Which is to its credit because I was still maintained that dark
• 4:29
  academia is a garbage genre. It's a fun genre, but it's not
• 4:33
  my favorite. Yes, because the thing I really
• 4:36
  wants to do when picking up a book about a fictional universe
• 4:40
  is learn about that fictional universe's collegiate program.
• 4:45
  Yeah, Which we also in the first like couple of chapters alone,
• 4:51
  learn a lot about Fe herself, that she is the only woman in
• 5:00
  the architecture program and it has not been easy for her
• 5:05
  because of that. No.
• 5:08
  And this we, yeah. And folks, we mentioned the
• 5:13
  trigger warnings earlier, but seriously, this stuff comes up
• 5:18
  immediately. So if you're at all sensitive to
• 5:21
  that sort of thing, I, I can't say I recommend this book
• 5:25
  because in fairness, it's not necessarily explicit about it,
• 5:31
  but there is a scene very early on that the certain certain
• 5:37
  professor. He's such a douche.
• 5:39
  Fuck that guy. He is sorry.
• 5:43
  Yes, 1000 years of scrotum torture for this guy.
• 5:46
  But more to the point, the color green comes up a lot in a study
• 5:53
  in drowning and it's used as it's used as an indicator of a
• 6:00
  very particular trauma that Effie, I realize I'm dancing
• 6:07
  around it, so I'm just going to say it.
• 6:09
  She's she was sexually assaulted by this professor.
• 6:12
  For sure. And it has fucked her up,
• 6:17
  understandably. Understandably.
• 6:20
  But like, yeah, it is on the one hand, it's it's not really
• 6:25
  subtext so much as it is text. But on the other hand, I do
• 6:28
  think the book is graceful about it in the sense that her trauma
• 6:33
  isn't her only defining characteristic.
• 6:36
  It's just clearly something that.
• 6:38
  She understandably for her. Yeah, she understandably is
• 6:42
  having a lot of trouble, you know, acting like a human being
• 6:48
  after all of that. To be fair she's not like hadn't
• 6:52
  had it easy before that because she's literally been gas lit by
• 6:56
  her entire life. Yeah, where do I fucking sucks
• 7:00
  like God damn. We it comes up later and I can't
• 7:04
  wait till we get to it. Oh wait, I think that's next
• 7:08
  week. Shit, never mind, JK Will.
• 7:11
  Be the second-half of the book? Probably, yeah.
• 7:13
  I think that's I think that's the second we'll get into this,
• 7:15
  we get into the specifics of why her why apparently nothing good
• 7:25
  can happen to Euphemia Sayre until the events of this book.
• 7:31
  But holy shit, it's. A poor girl.
• 7:33
  I feel for her. It's not, it's not bad, it's
• 7:38
  just depressing. Yeah, she's been on multiple
• 7:42
  medications for her her entire life.
• 7:45
  Like what is essentially is I the pink pill is like an
• 7:49
  antipsychotic and then a sleeping pill.
• 7:52
  Yeah. Because she's seen visions of
• 7:57
  the fake and everyone's like, that's not real, don't worry
• 8:01
  about it. It's very real.
• 8:04
  It's. Super fucking real.
• 8:06
  Yeah, first indication. First indication that there are
• 8:10
  in fact super in supernatural elements in your book.
• 8:13
  When every other fucking character's trying to gaslight
• 8:15
  you, it's. Not real.
• 8:19
  OK, sure. That's usually a.
• 8:22
  That's usually a dead set indicator that some mystical
• 8:24
  fuckery is afoot. Yeah.
• 8:27
  And we learned while we're at the college like a little bit
• 8:30
  more about like the setting of everything you've got, you've
• 8:34
  got Illyria and you've got, I keep one in the call of
• 8:38
  Argentum, but that's not correct.
• 8:41
  To be honest, I keep reading it. I keep reading it accidentally
• 8:45
  as Argentina and I'm like. That's.
• 8:50
  Terrible. Well if if let's see if Lyria is
• 8:57
  the UK in this scenario. Does that mean we're going to
• 8:59
  meet dark academia Margaret Thatcher sometime soon?
• 9:02
  Because the Falklands are fucked up.
• 9:05
  Yeah, I always felt like Illyria was more like Ireland and the
• 9:11
  other one was the UK. That's how I felt about it.
• 9:15
  Yeah. Actually, even funnier is that I
• 9:17
  have a friend from Argentina. So every time, every time, it's
• 9:22
  like it's called, the country's called Argent, by the way, it's
• 9:26
  like they're Argentian, not Argentinian.
• 9:29
  But I'm going to continue to call them the Argentinians
• 9:31
  because it's funny. They are the ones that have been
• 9:36
  in a a bit of a stalemate's Cold War with the Illyria, for it
• 9:43
  doesn't even really tell you how long the war has been going on,
• 9:47
  but it does imply that it's not going great for Illyria.
• 9:52
  It also it implies that it's been going on for a long time,
• 9:58
  or like at least it's now gotten to a point where it's there's
• 10:02
  like physical conflict, but it's I got the sense there there was
• 10:06
  like this Cold War vibe going on. 100%.
• 10:11
  Yeah, because one of the big slot points as we, as we
• 10:14
  progress as Effie, you know, one of the things early on was that
• 10:20
  she goes to. So I digress from my digression.
• 10:27
  So how many tangents I can go on before this is done?
• 10:29
  So a lot of the book involves around this guy named Emery's
• 10:33
  Murdin, who wrote a book called On Garage, which is sort of
• 10:37
  basically, it's like the, it's like the National Book of Lyria.
• 10:42
  It's this timeless fictional romance that had a huge cultural
• 10:51
  impact on the country when it was written.
• 10:56
  Dark Academia Akhtar. Fuck off anyway, How dare you.
• 11:06
  How fucking dare you. And she, well, she's OK.
• 11:16
  She's a little obsessed, not gonna lie.
• 11:20
  Perhaps understandable given how much of her own struggle she's
• 11:23
  projecting onto the characters of the book, but for sure.
• 11:27
  We've. We've all been there.
• 11:31
  You think we've all made a very specific piece of media very
• 11:34
  important to our personalities. You.
• 11:37
  You don't say. No, I don't know what you're
• 11:41
  talking. About I'm totally.
• 11:42
  Normal. Yes, we're all.
• 11:44
  Very normal here. On this vampire podcast.
• 11:48
  On this podcast dealing with vampires, about vampires
• 11:52
  exclusively regarding vampires anyway.
• 11:58
  Anyway, so Effie goes out to check out some materials of the
• 12:00
  library finds out that some some Dick beat her to the punch.
• 12:08
  This will be important later because it introduces one of the
• 12:13
  rather it's our first introduction to one of the major
• 12:15
  supporting characters of the book, which is Preston.
• 12:21
  I don't know how to hell right? I don't know how to pronounce
• 12:23
  Hello Hillary. Like what the fuck happened?
• 12:27
  What is with his last name? I got a very French rhyme from
• 12:32
  it, to be honest with you. Yeah.
• 12:34
  Yeah, yeah. So he's he's he's Argentian, or
• 12:39
  at least half. And he's the other person who we
• 12:43
  later find out is going on this study trip because, well, you
• 12:48
  know, those people who do like Death of the Author video
• 12:51
  essays. Yes, that's Preston.
• 12:56
  He, I mean, they, they are doing this for like the national
• 13:02
  author, like the most right, one of the most recognized authors.
• 13:06
  Also there's something linked to the authors and like they're
• 13:10
  standing the sleepers. Yes, thank you.
• 13:15
  Yeah, 6 sleepers, which are like Illyria's, like magical defense.
• 13:23
  I love it so much. It's really cool and I want to
• 13:26
  know more about it. Same big same.
• 13:32
  It's I love, I love it and I hate it when I'm in a reading a
• 13:36
  fantasy book and they're like, this is a thing that exists in
• 13:39
  this world. We're going to talk about it in
• 13:42
  context, but I'm not going to fully explain what it is until
• 13:47
  maybe later, but. Yeah.
• 13:54
  So we don't, we don't actually meet Preston until she embarks
• 14:00
  out to Sultanate, which is the village where Morden's actual
• 14:07
  estate is. Yep, and this thing called the
• 14:10
  lower 100 which is like the the lower part of the the state of
• 14:14
  Elyria which has. Problems.
• 14:18
  It's slowly sinking into the ocean, for one.
• 14:21
  Yeah. It it's apparently so bad that
• 14:24
  the deer are developing scales. So just do with that information
• 14:29
  what you will, because. It's it's already happened once
• 14:33
  before. I I know, but I'll be honest
• 14:35
  when I got the picture of an idea.
• 14:38
  Fish deer has been stuck in my brain for a while now.
• 14:42
  It's a very good, very, very evocative.
• 14:46
  All I think of is irons from ancient ancient magus bride and
• 14:52
  his like. I love that show.
• 14:54
  Definitely not. No, I'm surrounded by people who
• 14:59
  are fucking obsessed with that show.
• 15:02
  He, he, he, he so very good. I have a portrait of ions
• 15:06
  hanging in my bedroom. What do you want from me?
• 15:09
  Some self respect. That lit I lost.
• 15:13
  That a long time ago I play vampire on the Internet, what do
• 15:16
  you want? Touché.
• 15:21
  But also when we get to assault me, we she kind of has a panic
• 15:26
  attack, calls her mother, and we learn that her mother's also
• 15:28
  really not great either, but also her mother.
• 15:30
  Is a raging. Alcoholic.
• 15:32
  Raging alcoholic. Her mom, Yeah, yeah, her mom is
• 15:39
  her mom. Reminds me of my real life
• 15:40
  mother that is meant to be unflattering.
• 15:46
  But I was guessing. So yeah, not going to lie, that
• 15:51
  whole phone conversation kind of hit me right where I live.
• 15:54
  Yeah. No, I can definitely understand
• 15:57
  that. It's it, it's definitely, it's
• 15:58
  a, it's a bit of a gut punch because even like us as readers
• 16:02
  are, we are kind of expecting we are.
• 16:05
  I don't know if we're fully expecting that when the
• 16:08
  conversation happens. I, you know, I was and it's
• 16:13
  still hurt because like I have, I have absolutely called my mom
• 16:17
  mid panic attack and been like, hey mom, I'm freaking the fuck
• 16:21
  out. Help.
• 16:21
  And she's been like, yeah, well, I'm a little too drunk for that.
• 16:24
  Sorry. I mean, not in those exact
• 16:26
  words, but definitely the vibe. Yeah, have you tried just not
• 16:30
  being so stressed? Yes, Oh my.
• 16:36
  God, that's. What I've?
• 16:38
  Got Oh yeah so triggered in my life.
• 16:41
  Yeah, I apologize for the collective trauma dumping folks,
• 16:43
  but I really wish this wasn't such a prevalent thing in real
• 16:47
  life. Yeah, so Effie.
• 16:51
  And again, it's as fucking depressing as it is, it's still
• 16:56
  an important scene because again, we've only just been
• 16:59
  introduced to Effie. We get that she has the
• 17:05
  personality of a scared, wet cat.
• 17:08
  Yes. But the more we learn about her,
• 17:11
  the more we realize why she's like that.
• 17:14
  And it go, it goes a great way towards it goes a great way
• 17:19
  towards establishing character dynamics very early on.
• 17:25
  So we don't, we don't necessarily need to be
• 17:30
  continually frustrated by Effie's irrational fear of
• 17:35
  everything. Because let's face it, if you
• 17:39
  were in her shoes, why wouldn't you be terrified all the time of
• 17:44
  everybody? The world continues to prove her
• 17:49
  right, though. So in short, it's good
• 17:55
  characterization. That's that's another thing I
• 17:57
  like about this book. It it knows not to waste time,
• 18:05
  but it also it it also knows how to give you just enough
• 18:08
  information to trust that you will be able to fill in the
• 18:12
  blanks when it comes to motivation later on down the
• 18:15
  line. For dear because.
• 18:19
  Which is important. Because this book is also a
• 18:22
  mystery. Yes, it is a mystery.
• 18:25
  And like that he is, he is picked up from the train station
• 18:33
  Sultany by the as caretaker of the house.
• 18:38
  A real sunshine of a man. I mean he has a name.
• 18:47
  He has a name but I'm just calling him Jeeves.
• 18:51
  Yeah. He's he's the groundskeeper.
• 19:00
  He is the personality of a wet fish, which is fitting for this
• 19:05
  particular part of leery, I guess.
• 19:07
  But. But we get our on the drive over
• 19:12
  to the mansion, we get our first hint of something being the fuck
• 19:15
  up as on the car ride over, something dashes across the road
• 19:24
  that Jeeves continually insists is a deer.
• 19:29
  No, the fuck it wasn't. Yeah.
• 19:31
  It looks like just described like very much like a person.
• 19:36
  A person with long, wet black hair and a crown of bones keep.
• 19:44
  I'm sure it's. Fine.
• 19:46
  Yeah, keep that image firmly in your in your minds, folks.
• 19:50
  Totally. Everything's cool, nothing bad,
• 19:52
  is. Happening is a narrative device
• 19:55
  in which. In which we owe royalties to H
• 19:59
  Bomber Guy. Yeah, so they get to the house
• 20:08
  and that's where they meet Emery's son, Yonto.
• 20:14
  Lovely man I. Miss Let the hate flow through.
• 20:24
  You. I don't have many nice things to
• 20:26
  say about that one. He creeps me out.
• 20:29
  Every scene he's in. I'm like please don't.
• 20:33
  Come here vibes. I mean, but also Fe is not
• 20:44
  allowed to stay on the estate itself.
• 20:46
  She lives in A she's staying in a guest cottage, which I'm sure
• 20:50
  is going to be a point. Yeah, or something.
• 20:54
  Couple minutes it it's it's far granted the estate as we.
• 20:59
  Really bad shape. Yeah, it's also slowly falling
• 21:03
  into the ocean, like the basement level is almost
• 21:07
  completely flooded. Also, Yanto's not the only
• 21:11
  member of the Murdin family in residence.
• 21:15
  Emery's wife is also there, but apparently she's ill and keeps
• 21:22
  herself secluded. And if you can practically feel
• 21:28
  the quotation marks around those words, yeah, something's the
• 21:35
  fuck up at Counts Ianto's Murder Castle.
• 21:41
  I think it's fair to say again, the book isn't exactly subtle.
• 21:49
  It's. Really not.
• 21:52
  I suppose it helps that like just everything about the bottom
• 21:56
  100 is just dreary and generally moist moist.
• 22:03
  Yeah. Yeah, it's honestly it.
• 22:09
  The first thing that immediately came to mind was like big
• 22:12
  Innsmouth vibes. I was almost half expecting.
• 22:16
  Yeah, after. Yeah, I was almost half
• 22:18
  expecting fish people. It doesn't go there, but that's
• 22:24
  the general. The the general gist is the sort
• 22:29
  of place where the supposedly fun is not allowed and color is
• 22:35
  illegal. Yeah, and.
• 22:41
  Everything is just slightly wet, just.
• 22:44
  A little, just a little wet and then we finally get to meet
• 22:48
  Preston the next morning. Preston Hollandaise, or however
• 22:53
  the fuck you pronounce it last. Night Halloweens.
• 22:57
  No, I'm not going to make an effort.
• 22:59
  I like his character. A lot.
• 23:01
  He he is very good. He is a good being.
• 23:06
  Yeah, he's got that. He's got that nerd charisma.
• 23:09
  He. Really does.
• 23:11
  He kind of walks in on her half naked and he immediately does
• 23:15
  something where he just like turns around.
• 23:18
  Like you do. Because.
• 23:20
  Because this is one of those books, and even as much as I
• 23:23
  like to give it credit, it is not avoiding tropes.
• 23:30
  I know, I know the filth you crave.
• 23:32
  I. Mean, you know, a little.
• 23:39
  Just a little. In fairness, it's not a very it,
• 23:44
  especially given what we reviewed last time.
• 23:46
  It's not a very saucy book. This one is this 1 is very very
• 23:51
  like much lower on the spice rating rating where I think if
• 23:55
  the the last book we read is like considered like a four on
• 23:59
  the spice rating for like what it includes.
• 24:01
  This one is very much like 1. Yeah, this is fantasy.
• 24:06
  This is fantasy Victorian ages where looking at a woman's
• 24:11
  ankles is considered a bit risque like.
• 24:14
  But also they have slightly modern technology too.
• 24:17
  Yeah, that bit, that cameras and televisions actually, yeah.
• 24:26
  So the. Yeah, the technological
• 24:29
  disparity is interesting, but again, the I don't know, the
• 24:34
  book doesn't really harp on it, so yeah.
• 24:39
  It's not. Really.
• 24:40
  It's not really an aesthetic. It doesn't really.
• 24:44
  It's not glaring enough to really be.
• 24:48
  Look, the technology levels of A study in drowning are somewhere
• 24:51
  between the 1980s and the 1880s. So somewhere, take your pick.
• 24:59
  I guess, yeah, we were not far enough along that they don't
• 25:03
  have cell phones, which to be fair, would break a lot of the
• 25:06
  plot. Yeah, no.
• 25:08
  So much of this could so much of this plot could be resolved with
• 25:13
  cell service. Did really good.
• 25:18
  Yeah, she means Preston for the first time and through
• 25:23
  everything, kind of has another panic attack.
• 25:27
  This happens a lot, folks. Yeah, and she heads down to the
• 25:32
  the town and Preston gives her a ride where she kind of just gets
• 25:38
  feeling for the town a little bit and is from a very kindly
• 25:44
  shepherder given a hag stone. I'm sure that's not going to be
• 25:48
  important. Later, not at all.
• 25:51
  I do like that she references it a lot.
• 25:56
  Yeah, yeah, we learned, we learned about a lot of the local
• 25:59
  superstitions regarding fairies, which appeared to be the main
• 26:06
  supernatural threat for like a better term in this setting.
• 26:12
  So, you know, there's a bit of that year old folk belief for
• 26:16
  those of you who are into that sort of thing.
• 26:19
  And then as to Preston, well, I mentioned the death of the
• 26:23
  author thing. Basically, he and his academic
• 26:27
  patron are trying to figure out whether or not, ostensibly,
• 26:31
  whether or not Emery's Murdin actually wrote his own works.
• 26:39
  I have so many theories about that.
• 26:41
  Yeah, there, there's a lot and. Which Effie immediately takes
• 26:46
  offense to. Because how dare you defame the
• 26:48
  thing that I've built my whole personality around.
• 26:52
  Well, and especially it's he especially it's bad because like
• 26:55
  he's half our dance and you know, there, there's, there's
• 27:01
  that whole thing. And then those filthy foreigners
• 27:06
  questioning our national icons, right?
• 27:08
  Yeah. Yeah, you can.
• 27:11
  You can add you can add xenophobia, just a touch of
• 27:15
  light xenophobia, to the list of depressing subject material in
• 27:20
  this book. Yeah, there's like I, I was
• 27:24
  thinking about it as I was reading it.
• 27:25
  It's like there's a lot to do with like imperialism and
• 27:30
  colonialism. Like, not directly in this book,
• 27:34
  but this book is sort of is dealing with like the themes of
• 27:38
  like what imperialism and colonialism does to a country.
• 27:42
  Like, yeah, like if you it, it was really, really making me
• 27:46
  think about like, Britain going in and essentially wiping out
• 27:50
  cultures, especially like the Irish and the Scottish culture,
• 27:54
  like Ireland and Wales especially, you know how their
• 27:57
  culture is literally almost wiped off the map.
• 28:01
  It's making a comeback. It is and I've been, I've been
• 28:04
  doing that a lot if it's really awesome.
• 28:07
  As a Welsh, I have Welsh in my blood.
• 28:14
  It is. I'm glad to see that it's making
• 28:16
  a comeback because like, that sucks, you know?
• 28:22
  But yeah, there is a lot of ties to it.
• 28:26
  I like that it emphasizes the how it creates a level of
• 28:30
  distrust, like constant distrust, which is a huge theme
• 28:35
  for the book. But like, they do a really good
• 28:37
  job of emphasizing it without ever actually just being like,
• 28:40
  well, I just. Don't trust you there.
• 28:44
  There is 100% that it's it is. There's a lot of distrust, but
• 28:48
  like nobody ever comes out and outright says it.
• 28:51
  But Preston does get Fe to agree by essentially telling her that
• 28:57
  you will be the co-author on this piece and I will help you
• 29:01
  get into the literature college when we get back.
• 29:04
  I actually believe him on him too, like I believe he's at
• 29:08
  least going to make an effort. I think he will fight for her,
• 29:11
  which is awesome. Preston's generally a good egg.
• 29:18
  A lot of the initial, again, because we're in Effie's POV the
• 29:21
  entire time, where a lot of the initial distrust comes from a
• 29:25
  combination of Effie's own personal trauma and, well, what
• 29:29
  colonialism does to a motherfucker.
• 29:31
  Yeah. There, there's.
• 29:35
  There's a lot there. Which is again also another
• 29:38
  thing I like about characterization in this book.
• 29:41
  And that it doesn't try to bake even the main character
• 29:44
  necessarily. Perfect.
• 29:48
  I do like that too. I agree with that.
• 29:51
  Because a, a problem that a lot of a lot of books, especially
• 29:55
  books that deal with people whose main focal point is that
• 29:58
  they were heavily traumatized, is that they seem like such, you
• 30:05
  know, innocence and pure archetypes that are just oh so
• 30:09
  above the cesspool of whatever the culture institution or what
• 30:14
  have you is, you know, they're trying to rise above and as the
• 30:18
  author desperately tries to make a point about something.
• 30:21
  But that's not how it works. Like even if you just generally
• 30:25
  are not an asshole, like growing up in a certain way of thinking
• 30:30
  can still leave its mark. And you see that with Effie.
• 30:35
  And I don't know, weirdly, I just going to sound like I'm
• 30:42
  advocating for xenophobia. I'm not.
• 30:44
  But it's, it's nice to see that she's not immune to that.
• 30:49
  Essentially it's it's nice to see a protagonist that can still
• 30:52
  be biased. Yeah, she is.
• 30:55
  She is flawed. She is biased especially.
• 30:57
  It's like she has put so much into this book.
• 31:02
  It's a book that she reads every night.
• 31:04
  She knows it by heart and it is very important to her.
• 31:10
  So much so that it like she feels that it is influencing her
• 31:15
  delusions. I always think it's fascinating.
• 31:20
  If the if the Internet was a thing in Leerio, she for sure
• 31:26
  would have so many so many stories on AO3.
• 31:34
  Yeah.