Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / David Sinclair | 2024 JFK50 / Speedgoat 50K / Broken Arrow 46K Champion

Transcript

David Sinclair | 2024 JFK50 / Speedgoat 50K / Broken Arrow 46K Champion · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up guys?
• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we've got a treat for you guys.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: None other than David Sinclair is on the podcast, the Mountain Running Sensation.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: He joined us on the pod fresh off of his dub course record and arguably the best 50-mile run ever at the JFK 50.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: What a fun episode.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited I finally got an opportunity to sit down and talk to David S talk to david sinclair, because I feel like all I do is talk about david sinclair in these pods.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: He gets brought up quite often, so it was really fun to finally get to chat with him.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I get to learn a little bit more about his background.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: We talked about his goals for the upcoming schemo season into the 2026 olympic cycle.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: We also talked about some of his wins this year, not just the jfk, but also with the broken arrow sky race 46k, as well as his course record at speed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Goat.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: The dude is on a heater.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Um, arguably one of the best, if not the best, in the world at this moment.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of wild.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Uh, pretty cool.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Really fun chat, had a great time.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, I hope you guys enjoyed this one.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Um, audio quality is not the best, because we did this one on Zoom.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: God, I hate Zoom, but you know what?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: We had to talk to David Sinclair.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: This conversation needed to happen.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: He'll be back out in Colorado pretty soon, so hope to get him on again, hopefully for a face-to-face, so we can sit down and get some better audio quality and get a better interview going.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But yeah, guys, I'm really excited for this one.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I yeah, guys, I'm really excited for this one.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: None other than the champion himself, mr Davidson Kallar.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: David St Clair, welcome to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: How are you, my friend?
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I'm doing really well.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me on, James.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, it's a pleasure man, this is what I've been wanting to do for a while.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Hopefully not the last one.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Um, I'm excited to uh, finally get.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I feel like, dude, I have had so many podcasts where, like, even Michelino, some Sari, so many people will bring you up and it's like you're this mythical figure that, like we talk about that, it's like this David Sinclair character that will come onto the scene, destroy everyone Like speed goat.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: This year was just like such and jfk like there's just always.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: You have these crazy dominant performances.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Um, I know we kind of talked about it a little bit before we started recording, but like, and then you'll have these performances.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: You're not super, super active on social media, so, like I said, you kind of create this mythos about yourself, which is which is pretty dope, so I was very loaded question there.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, I'll take it as a big compliment, but it's been a pretty insane year with some really good ultra results for me.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I like to keep it pretty low on social media, but we'll see.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get a little bit more into the make it more a profession for a year or two here, so I may have to start putting myself out there more.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: So keep looking for me yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Well, dude, you just had an insanely dominant performance.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Arguably, out of all the insane performances you've had in your career, this one might be the cherry on top of the on top of the proverbial sunday.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So, like, how are you feeling, basking in the afterglow of jfk, dude?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's been a.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: It's been a good week since then, like just kind of absorbing it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Uh, a lot going on in my life just moved to, but uh, it's been good to have a little bit lower break from training and just kind of enjoying that special day.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I had such a, such a good effort and, yeah, probably the best performance of my career yeah, man, that's, I mean like lights out.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I mean like we kind of talked about before, like dude, this might have been like the performance of the year and probably the greatest 50 mile run.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I mean quite a few people have said it like probably the greatest 50 mile run possibly ever, which is insane.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, how's, uh, how's recovery going for that?
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: How you feeling?
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: um, it's been a bit mixed.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I I like, coming right off the race I was feeling like surprisingly good, was able to kind of walk and not feel too bad.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I actually did run a couple times in the past week and I just have like a a little bit of lingering tightness in my my left hip.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: So, uh, luckily it's.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: You know it's hard to snow here in Vermont, so I'm hoping that getting more on skis will be a will be good to take, take a little bit of break.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I know I was feeling really good till like Thursday and then I hopped in a turkey trot just for fun and since then I've been like, oh, I probably shouldn't have done that.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: But but overall, yeah, it doesn't seem like there's any major injuries.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: And I'm excited to now kind of shift to, uh, the winter here and get get skiing.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, dude, before we kind of introduce you and talk about your background, I do want to preface like this one thing, Cause I, Corey and Malcolm had mentioned it to me and like I'm I know Kim pretty well and I was just kind of like blown away that like you were at a schema camp.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Where you were, you were in Aspen, right, or was it Crested Butte area.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: You were at like a schema thing like the week before jfk, right yeah, so just I'll go back a little bit further.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: But uh, I did some schema the last two winters and I ended up having some like decent results.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Last year I got two seconds at the national championships for schema and then in the spring usa schema called me up and they invited me to come do one of these late season world cups in Italy, which was super fun.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: So when I got named to the national team in the spring, that kind of got me thinking and I decided, okay, like I'm 32.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know how many more years I'm going to have the top of my, like you know, athletic career.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: So I decided to kind of go a little bit more all in and so in the spring I stopped working at the school and coaching and being a dorm parent out in California and we decided to move back to Vermont and so since that I've just kind of been all in on running and hoping to have a good schema season here.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I was trying to make the connection too, yeah, I was going to say, I was going to make the connection that, like just before JFK you were, you were out there doing some schemo stuff, right or?
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: yeah, so the?
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: So the goal for this winter has been to raise a lot of world cups or schemo, and see if I can be one of the top guys.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Um, in the us I know there's a lot of a lot of us gunning for it, as there's some momentum for uh 2026, there's going to be the olympics for the shorter distance ones, so they invited the whole us team out to aspen and it just happened to be essentially like there's a full week camp ended a full week before JFK.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So I was like, okay, I'm going to go out to Schemo camp.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I've never really tried just like adding in skiing right before a big ultra.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: But I figured going out to altitude and then dropping the running mileage that hopefully doing some hard efforts on skis would, like you know, work out.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And it it ended up being the perfect kind of peaking plan, I think, to do out there like keep the volume high, but the running, like my legs were less beat up and maybe the altitude gave me a little boost.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it worked out.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I had never done it before.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I was a big question mark going in.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: If it would be the way to get a good performance in a 50 mile like flat ultra.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: But who knows, maybe that's a secret.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Dude, absolutely Incredible, like I said, it was just like, like I said, a couple of people had pointed it out that like, oh yeah, he was just doing some schema stuff the week before and then hopped back off his skis and went and dominated JFK.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: It was pretty cool, hopped back off his skis and went and dominated JFK, which is pretty cool, yeah, yeah.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: So, dude, why don't you do me a favor?
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about who David Sinclair is?
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Give us some of your backgrounds.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I know you're obviously a dual sport athlete, obviously very.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You know you've got a lot of background on the skis and stuff like that.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So maybe give your background and kind of go from there.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so going, going way back.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I I grew up.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: So moving back to Vermont, here it's, it's where I grew up.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: I'm currently living in Montpelier, like 20 minutes from the town that I grew up in.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But, uh, I got really into, you know, both running and skiing as a kid, um, kind of doing you know all sorts of soccer and other sports.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: And then in high school I decided that my passion was cross-country skiing.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: So I ended up going to one of these ski academies that they have in Vermont called Green Mountain Valley School, right in the town I grew up in Wakefield and they had competitive ski programs for cross-country skiers.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: So I was fully focused on trying to be one of the top cross-country skiers in the country, training full year-round for skiing.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: And then I still liked running so I'd run like cross country as cross training through the fall.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Um had some success in cross country skiing and was like a pretty good runner, especially for, like vermont, cross country running all through high school ended up going to dartmouth college on the new hampshire for and race d1 cross country skiing all through college.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: The goal with that was like eventually graduating college.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about trying to make the U S team for cross country skiing.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: So I I gave it one more year right after college of trying to like train full time for cross country skiing and came up a little bit short of those big goals of making like world cups or cross country.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: And then from there I just kind of slowly got more and more into the trail running world and have kept mostly a coaching cross country scheme on the side.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's very cool, dude.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: What a background too.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting to me because we've had a lot of cross country skiers come over to our sport, whether it be sub ultra orra or in the ultra world, and just dominate you.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Sam Hendry, sophia Lackley there's quite a few cross-country skiers that have had massive success in our sport, but I feel like, dude, you stick out as being one of the most dominant, and consistently dominant over the years.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: What do you think you owe it to?
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Is it just like having an enormous engine, like from cross-country skiing, like do you still ski a ton in the winter?
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Like, like, where's that background?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Like you think, like, do you still keep like a good balance?
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to kind of understand better your training and like like where this dominance comes from yeah.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: No, I think that cross-country skiing translates pretty well to the mountain running as like a background sport, just because cross country skiers are used to doing like a huge volume of training, they just get, they get really fit, and so they tend to translate probably better to the the more mountainous and rugged kind of train more, because most skiers just tons of volume, lots of cross training, but they're not, you know, maybe developing that foot speed.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Um, that's, you know, necessary for more of a flat like kind of jfk type effort.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: So I think the nordic skiers tend to do really well in these like long, tough mountain races that you just need, you know, a lot of grit and, uh, you know bigger, a big face for.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: But uh, I've also like have a background after college and when I quit skiing I got like slowly into marathon.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: So I think you know, having that running background and a little bit more like leg speed from the marathon training um is like the perfect combination for a race like JFK.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Dude, can you talk a little bit about your Olympic like cause I forgot the fact that you had?
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: You were had an OTQ.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about, like, the year that you had um, you were in Atlantalanta, you raced right when you, uh, for the olympic trials.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Um, so I never made it to the start line.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Okay, the olympic trials, but yeah, so with my, with the ski background, it was actually like funny story.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: That was, some of my teammates and I in college, I think our junior year decided, hey, like the spring was the off season for, like you know, serious ski training, so we decided we wanted to run the boston marathon.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: Um, turns out you had to qualify for the boston marathon, so I, we ended up running the vermont city marathon my junior year in college and, um, a bunch of us were able to qualify the next year to run boston in 2014.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Um, so those were ended up running boston March 2014.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: It was the year after the bombings, but that was like literally like a month after ski season started and I, you know, I had a little little taste, kind of got the bug for marathon.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: So when I stopped ski racing competitively, I started chasing marathons and I think I, like I went from my first marathon was a 242.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And then the next year, at Boston, I ran a 236.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I ran Vermont City Marathon the next year, again got it down to 226.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: And from there I was like, oh, with a year or two of serious training maybe I can get that OTQ.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I ended up moving out to Flagstaff and went to grad school there and uh, I ran the cim both years that I lived out there and uh, so the second year I finally kept whittling down and I think I did 216, um yeah, and that was like doing like pure marathon training, a lot of just flat road speed work, uh, yeah, so it was like a kind of like five, six year process of just literally like putting in these marathon blocks and trying to shave off a few minutes here and there and uh, I had like an incredible fall and like everything went, went perfect with training that year.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Um, dude.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So really quick question on on, uh, flagstaff like that was around the time I would imagine Jim and that whole crew is kind of like running around Flagstaff Is that.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Were you kind of?
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Did you get in that group at all or like hang out with any of them, or were you just there training and you know, did you cross paths with them at that time?
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I was, I like, knew of them a little bit, but I was not really getting into the trail racing world as much.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I don't think I ever managed to train with them because I was super busy between grad school.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I was just kind of fitting in runs around my grad school so I ended up doing most of the training on my own.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: But that was at the same time.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: The rest of the year I started doing a little bit more trail running while I was out there and jumped in a few trail races.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: So I ended up I think this I can't remember the exact year, but maybe 2017 they I heard of this race called the like scott flagstaff sky peaks.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: It was a 39k and it ended up being the uh, the qualifier for the world's team um that year.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: So I I went out in marathon training like doing most of my trainings on the roads and had a really good trail race, found out after I finished that, oh, you qualified to do trail or world mountain running championships.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Next year it was Poland and that was a little bit the start of getting into some of these like marathon and ultra trail races.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Interesting Dude.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: How did so?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I can remember when I first came into the sport this is probably like five, four to six years ago.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I can remember some of your dominance at Pikes and stuff like that and I remember that was like during the Golden Trail Series era, like when the Pikes Marathon was kind of in the mix and everything like that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Did you run for Solomon at that time?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: You were, you were kind of did you run for solomon at that time or you were kind of like an ambassador for them, or how did that work at that time?
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: yeah, I ran.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I was like interested in solomon, I really liked their shoes back then.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Uh, I think after I I the first year I ran and won the uh speed goat 50k, I met some people with solomon and, uh, yeah, I talked to them.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: So for like a year or two I was sponsored um by solomon and then that kind of fizzled when I had some injuries and things interesting and then did you like?
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: the reason I ask is because the golden trail series races and stuff like that, and just just kind of how versatile you are as an athlete, like you could have success at the ultra, in the ultra scene, but you could also have immense success and have had immense success on like the sub ultra scene.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that like kind of piques your interest?
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Is it more the ultra these days or this may be more kind of like those golden trail series races or anything the short stuff like?
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: yeah, no, I enjoy some of the short racing.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I like to keep that in the mix.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Um, I think I'm finding that it just keeps getting more and more competitive and maybe my skill set is a little more suited towards the, you know, like the 50k and up mountain races.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: So I, I haven't done, you know, any big ultras.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I, I, you know I kind of changed my mind every few weeks about, uh, what I want to target the next year.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: But I think right now I'm hoping to, you know, keep keep doing a little bit of the salt ultra racing kind of more as like supplementary speed work and just to keep me motivated.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: And then a lot of the big efforts will probably be some of these like, uh, all drives for next couple years.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: But I'll just kind of, yeah, have to keep waiting and see what motivates me and how training goes, yeah, yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting too, cause you know, I don't know like there's you've had obviously immense now obviously success at JFK.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But like in the past I don't know if people remember like you and Adam Peterman took each other to the woodshed, you know, at canyons a few years back and like had a, like you got a golden ticket there.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Obviously you didn't take it and didn't go to western, but you know, like you have had immense success at a lot of these races, so it's cool to see that like you could do whatever you want whenever you want, kind of kind of thing.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: How does that like mix with you now, especially with like 2026 coming up, and like starting to think about like olympics and schemo and stuff like that?
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Like what are you more pulled to?
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Are you more pulled towards wanting to try and mix it up on the Schemo side and possibly compete for that Olympic spot should the team actually get on, or is it more so like ultra golden ticket, like that kind of game, Especially because this is kind of a pivotal year for both?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I don't want to just venture into the future, especially because this is kind of a pivotal year for both.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really little, just through the future.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: But I, uh, I told myself when I decided to like stop stop working out at, uh, this ski academy last year that I was going to go all in for a year and try to focus on schemo.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to wait and see how this winter goes, where the main focus is going to be trying to keep getting better at schemo and, uh, especially some of the short races.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: So I set myself up, if it goes really well, to at least be able to compete for that olympic spot in schema.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, depending how it goes.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I think this ultra side has been really fun.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: I'm, you know, pretty passionate about both of them.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I think they make a pretty good combo.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Uh, for me personally, like putting in the ultra grind training where you're just running the majority of the time, I think does not work well for me year round and I've, you know, every time I try to just focus on running, I seem to get, you know, keep pushing a little bit too much and get injured.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So, uh, the plan is to keep running, some through the winter, but have the main focus be on you know, and then in the spring kind of switch gears and, uh, start training for a mountain races and ultras again.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Gotcha Now.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Do you think you can maybe talk a little bit about the to the audience about?
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I know I've had quite a few schema athletes on before, but can you talk about maybe, like what you're more interested in and whether it be the individual or the relay, like how would that work, um, and kind of what you're targeting more like mindset wise yeah.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So it's a little difficult right now in the sport because most of the attention and the funding that's coming into the sport is all for the Olympic disciplines and the main event that the US team is focused on right now is called the mixed relay, which is a female and a male partner team up and you do like an eight to nine minute lap with two different climbs and descents, tag your team at eight and then you both go and that's going to be the main olympic event, because of 12 different countries will get to start the relay next year at the olympics and the us needs to do well on the world cup this winter so that the us can even earn a start for the olympics.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: And then, given that we actually earned that spot this winter and beginning of next season, we will have some competition, like within the us team, to actually see who gets to go to the olympics.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So it'll end up being one male and one female if we do earn that spot.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: So right now there's a lot of focus on these shorter events because the sprint, which is like a three minute race, and then the mixed relay, which is you go twice for like eight to nine minutes, so the whole race ends up being between like 32 and 40 minutes with your partner.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Are are the main events.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Um, my running training is geared more towards, you know, you know our races all the way up to ultras, that you know.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I think I've done an eight hour 100k before I've never done.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: It was closer than nine, but yeah, I've never raced on foot for over nine hours.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: But I do also have some aspirations to eventually try 100 miler or like a really rugged 100k.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: So there's, yeah, a little bit torn between you know, do I?
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Do I really go all in on trying to just get really good at these three to eight minute efforts on skis?
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And how does that fit in with the training?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: We're trying to be durable and, uh ready to go for hours and hours on running, but in some ways I think it might work pretty well to uh like use the winter focused on just building base and strength and some of these shorter intervals and then through the summer right, they can be complimentary, even though they seem very different on paper.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: We're doing three to eight minute ski races and, you know, five to who knows 20 hour running races, potentially in the next few years.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's super interesting.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Man Like let me ask you this Cause do you?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I mean obviously you can't say this with certainty, but let's say we do do well at world cops, we bring a good team and like what is that?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Do you have any idea of like what that competition looks like for who selects that?
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: How have any idea of like what that competition looks like for who selects that, how that male gets selected and how that female gets selected going into the olympic, like for the olympic cycle, or do they keep that pretty pretty buttoned up?
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: um, they, they actually need to be a pretty public with what the final criteria will be.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's officially published yet, but I know with it becoming an Olympic sport, it's actually the US OPC that gets to like, finalize and make that criteria.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So they've been talking with the folks at USA Schemo a lot and it sounds like there will actually be a camp next December where anyone who has done well enough on the World Cup to meet the minimum criteria to actually be eligible for the Olympics, which is if you get to do a World Cup and you're a competent ski racer, I think you'll hit that minimum.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So I would imagine there are like 10-ish men and women that meet that criteria and I do think it looks fairly promising, with the momentum we have right now and a lot of guys training really hard and getting a lot better at these mixed relay events, that we will have a handful of athletes that have had some good results and I think it will come down to who has the best results this winter and then they'll do some final selection races beginning of next season.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Gotcha.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Now I know Cam and Griffin are like over.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I think they're in Europe, right?
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Are you going to go over to Europe to race at all this year, or do you have plans to go?
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Do that.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on the team so I can start most of the World Cups that I am interested in, and those guys have been a little more focused on like getting ready for the early season world cups.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So in about 10 days, so like the following weekend I think, they have the world cup openers in course of all france.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: So those guys have been training hard.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: They're gonna be racing over there.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited to see what they're going to do.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And then, with my plan, just I've been running more and I'm just slowly starting to get on snow.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: Right now, um, I'm just going to focus on training for the us national championships, which are in january out in utah, and then after that I will end up going to uh, to europe and doing some world cups and so finalizing all my plans.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I've actually been talking to jeff mocavero a little bit about teaming up for some of these longer partner races.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I'm super cool.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: So you're a mentors on the radar right now for a like mid March.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Dude, that would be sick.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: What an iconic race, oh my God.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just reading up on it and seeing things and photos and things.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: So it's, it's it's with a partner, some photos and things, so it's, it's it's with a partner.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: There's four different stages and they're all, like, you know, three-ish hour kind of days back to back to back you stay in a hut overnight.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it looks like that's true ski mountaineering to me.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: So I want to, you know, try to do my best at this mixed relay and sprint and, you know, keep myself in the mix if it goes really well to potentially get that olympic spot.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: But I'm definitely more passionate about the just getting out in the mountains and doing some of these iconic longer races.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: So I think doing some of these individuals on the World Cup and then a few of these partner races will be a really fun adventure this winter.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this Are you more performance like whether this be running related or or ski related Like?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Are you more performance related like whether this be running related or or ski related, like?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Are you more performance related with these things goal wise, or are you more just like adventure based and like I just want to have fun doing it?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Um, I, I mean I I got into the sport, you know, just because it's fun.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I really like getting out there and enjoying the mountains but at the same time, like it's more fun when you're performing well.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: So I try to find a really nice balance of in my training.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Like I'm not going to go out there and just like do exactly what you know the best training on paper might be each day.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I need to mix it up and find things that are fun and keep me motivated.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I like finding a balance of okay, what's the smartest training to do to reach my performance goals and then what's the training I need to do that's going to make me happy and nourish the soul a little bit Often.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I think that's great Because in the end, if you're not having fun and you're not motivated to get out there doing the things that you're passionate about, you're probably not going to stick with the sport longterm.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Right, and it's gotta, it's gotta be fun.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this dude, like do you work with a coach at all, or are you just like you know the zones that you got to hit and you train that way?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Like, what do you do for your, for your training?
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I like I've known myself and I maybe alluded to this before, but like I probably should have a coach.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: But I also really like the, the freedom I get from.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been an endurance athlete like training, nearly, like you know, full-time and with a performance aspect since I was like 14 and started being focused on cross-country ski training.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So over the last what?
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: 18 years now, I've learned a lot about what works for me individually and I'm always learning new things.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I'm always changing it up and trying slightly different things.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: So probably if I had a coach that told me to tweak a few things or hold back here, or you're an idiot, don't do that, you're going to get yourself injured I'd maybe maybe be able to find, you know, an extra percent performance wise.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: But I also really enjoy the you know, having the autonomy and getting to make the training decisions myself yeah, no, I dude, I think there's something to it too.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I think being able to kind of be a little bit of a mad scientist and figure out what works for you, uh, because you know, if you look at some of the people on the top of the sport, I'd say it's spread out pretty 50, 50, like a good amount of them have coaches, but a lot of them don't like including gym and people like that, um, including yourself.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: So I just find it very interesting, cause, like I, I don't know I think there's something to like figuring out, like, like I said, like kind of that mad scientist, like what works for me and then applying that more kind of diving into your training.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Are you like because I know from a nordic skiing background, I know a lot of people are more heart rate zone based like, do you do more heart rate based?
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Or like what do you?
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: How do you do your stuff?
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious, like how do you build that pyramid, if you will?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: yeah, I like to think about it from a lot of a lot of different ends.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: But growing up with ski training, the conditions are so variable, the modes are pretty variable and the trains are variable that you really don't have a lot of good metrics, especially like 15 years ago.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: So pretty much what we did was all based on heart rate.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: So I grew up really learning to a wear heart rate monitor, get really well tuned in with, like you know how the effort feels and how that correlates with heart rate zones.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Over the years, as I got more into running I you know I'll still throw a heart rate monitor on.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I'd probably use it less and less, but I do think it's a really good tool.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, as I've gotten more into running, I've started like paying a little bit more attention to you know paces, especially with like marathon training.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Right, it's all like totally opposed from the heart rate training.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Most people are just, you know well, how fast are you running in these you know workouts.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: So I think they you know having both sides and having you know tried mostly heart rate training before and having tried uh you know more like pace base and uh types of training when I'm focusing on flatter road running things, it uh having the understanding of interplay and how, like the day-to-day variations, uh can interact.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: Have, you know, helped me uh find the right balance and know when to push in training, know when I'm feeling good, but yeah, there's a lot, the more, the more data probably in the end that you can collect and the ways to look at it, the better.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you spend a lot of time in the gym?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Do you lift a lot?
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I kind of don't enjoy doing the gym but I have found over the years that it does definitely help my performance and just help me be a more well-rounded athlete.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So cross country skiers are, you know, in the gym quite a bit, at least like two to three times a week, because it's such a like a power based sport.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: So I grew up doing a little bit of lifting and you know I had always given the choice like rather be out like on the trails or skiing than in the gym.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: But uh, developing that like well-rounded athleticism uh is just like just accepted and seeing that like you, you will not be one of the best skiers in the world unless you are doing some supplemental gym work.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: So I've kind of experimented when I was doing more getting into trail running, I kind of went away from doing nearly as much gym work where I just do like a little bit of core and mobility kind of things on my own.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And then the last couple of years as I've been, you know, coaching more like junior cross country skiers, I would just kind of you know, I always have them doing gym work and, you know, work with a strength and conditioning coach just to kind of learn a little bit more about it and started adding that back in to get a few gym sessions in there, especially in the like off season or like you know, when you're building up for a race, and then maybe you drop it back when you're like if you start racing quite heavily.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's so interesting man, it's cause, like I what blew my mind.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: I had cam in here one day for on the pod and he was like dude, I'm in the gym like four times a week and I was like wow, like kind of like blew my mind for like how much you can orient like strength and power into getting, just, you know, overall just having more power, more wattage, more output, especially for like uphill stuff, and I was like just got the gears turning in my head.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting how different people do different things, you know.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you know some depends on the athlete a little bit, but I think overall we're seeing that more and more runners are, like you know, realizing how you know it's not the not the end of the world to throw it out, but like, overall, you'll be a more well-rounded, be able to handle a little more training if you're taking the time to build some strength in the gym, like most fast road runners now are definitely doing more.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe with now on running you can actually get away with a little bit less, because you know by doing a lot of steep hills you're actually getting more of a strength impulse.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: But uh, yeah.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: So I I was doing strength all through the spring, getting in the gym like twice a week just trying to like general strength, nothing super fancy, and then, like before broken arrow, I kind of took a little break and then I was, you know, traveling and moving and kind of got away from the gym most of the summer and went through like a bit of a rough patch in like August and into September, and so, as I kind of reset and got back into training, I decided, okay, I have the time right now.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure I get in the gym and do a heavy lift twice a week, and I found that once I adapted to it which took, like you know, the first two two weeks, was kind of rough Cause you were just at well like heavy leg and tired all the time after doing the lifts I actually started to, like you know, exponentially feel faster as I was able to like absorb some of the faster running workouts.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: And then, like you know, they're like every week, like I do, I do a similar workout and like, oh, I'm like 10 seconds a mile faster than I was the week before and I definitely attribute the gym work to helping with the, you know, running economy.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: It's crazy how how, how fast you can adapt to it too, or how fast you can adapt with it.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, pretty wild man, fast you can adapt to it too, or how fast you can adapt with it.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting, pretty wild man.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Um, all right, hey, really quick.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: So I want to.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I want to transition a little bit, because one of the things you had semi touched on was like longer stuff, like the 100k, or like mountain 100k or mountain 100 mile.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: It's like utmb or like ccc proper, like something that's on your radar in the future yeah.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So I was excited.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I think I qualified a few years ago to uh ccc and uh was kind of interested and then I just didn't end up working with uh, like my work schedule and stuff, and I maybe wasn't ready.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: So this year, after doing really well at speed go, I was like, oh, it would be really fun to try to do occ.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Um, unfortunately I wasn't able to get in.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: So I think I am qualified for occ next year so I'm planning to do that.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: I'm actually maybe leaning towards doing ccc.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I think I can switch on the move up and do that one.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: So I think that would be a really fun, like 100k in the mountains um, to test myself at something a little bit longer than what I've done before yeah, yeah, dude, it would be crazy, I mean, especially like you're one of the few people that can like throw their name in the hat and like yeah, yeah, like I said, you're like one of the few people that can like throw their name in the hat and like have an ability to compete for that podium like your first time there, which is kind of wild, so that would be dope to see you.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Especially like for the american contingent, have you go over there and, uh, you know, compete pretty sweet yeah, so not not set in stone yet, but that's on on my radar as one of the major a a goal races for next year.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do cc now you're.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: You're obviously in the northeast now, so I know we kind of touched on this a little bit before.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: You think you have some plans for 2025 for, uh like sunopi, for the world's qualifier yeah, I was just talking um about about that when I saw it came out like a few weeks ago and I got myself registered for the the sun summit p scramble which is going to be the qualifier for the up down classic world's team.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: So as of now, I'm planning to do that.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: It'll be super competitive.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: There are so many fast, short mountain guys uh gunning for those things right now.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: But if anything, I think it'll be really good to make sure I'm, you know, working on some speed and really mountain legs uh early in the season and it will set me up for some success in the longer mountain races later in the season.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah dude, and I feel like people sleep on Northeast trails, like it's so much more technical, like I live in Colorado and like our trails are like carpet compared to the Northeast.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: It's so much more technical over there, so more the training's completely different in a lot of ways.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been been a bit of a challenge coming back, which is one of those things you forget about how rooty and rocky and muddy the trails can get in the East, so you have to adjust.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: It's been a skill that you have to recalibrate.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I was finally at the end of the fall like feeling I kind of got my groove back on the East Coast techie trails.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: So I'm hoping that I haven't seen the exact part like course description for some of you, but I think there will be some gnarly East coast trails on at least one of the descents so that should be a little bit of an equalizer.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Some of the West coast guys and I will be a training for that.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Dude, it's cool, it's going to be two loops, which is also it makes it a little more interesting.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: You know strategy wise on, you know how to perform on one loop versus the second one, like how to you know attack that I feel like you'd be the best of that too, especially being like literally like owning broken arrow.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: You know for as many times as you have, especially in like the 46k, like because it is a two looped course on like how to strategize for that.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: It's, it's, I don't know.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like that works to your favor in a lot of ways too.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: It's always, you know, interesting I, you know.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I got there and have pretty good short mountain races.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Other times I just don't quite seem to have the uh, the power and climbing legs to hang with the best in the mix.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Dude.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this Before you moved out back out to Vermont, like you had a really interesting job in California, can you talk a little bit about like what you did as a coach and like how, like just that experience in general, like living in that area?
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was incredible.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I moved out there in the fall of 2019, I think, and started working at the school called Sugar Bowl Academy, which is like a high school for skiers, right on Donner Summit at the base of Sugar Bowl ski area, and so I started working as a coach with the cross-country skiers and also working at the school there a little bit country skiers and, uh, also like working at the school there a little bit.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: So the last two years I was a nordic coach, um, doing some like tutoring and teaching and then working in the, uh, the dorm for the kids that live on campus full-time and it was, you know, an incredible community and, uh, really fun to work as a coach for the junior skiers.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, kind of how I got into into endurance sports and the same kind of thing.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I went to a ski academy in vermont and, uh, it was an incredible place to train for skiing trail running.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: We were right at the base of sugar bowl ski area so you can actually ski up to, like the cafeteria in the winter.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: The lifts are running right out the back door and there were 100 kilometers of running trails and groom ski trails all winter.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: The PCT was a mile from from the front door.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, it's paradise out there.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely missing.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: I saw they just got a bunch of snow last week and we have a little bit of snow in Vermont, but not nearly that much.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: So I had a great few years living out there and we'll miss it.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: It's a good good community.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Last week, and, uh, we have a little bit of snow in vermont, but not nearly that much, so, uh, I, yeah, had a great few years living out there and we'll miss it.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: It's a good good community.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, what a crazy what a crazy place to like, live and play like I don't know, just just beautiful.
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: But hey, the northeast has got its ups too so, yeah, two winters ago when we were out, there was the uh, one of the snowiest winters on record and we actually had 800 inches on the summit.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Like you know, out the front door fell over that winter and I will like it just recalibrates.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: I will never like have a storm in the east and be like, oh, that's a lot of snow again, because just having like oh, like a six feet is a big storm.
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: I was like growing up, uh, we got, that was a good storm yeah, yeah, it's crazy man, I that was.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I think that was the year I actually did Broken Arrow.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: It was when we had like the base.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: It was basically snowpocalypse out there, like it was just super deep and quite a lot of snow, on course, made it pretty fun.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, broken Arrow is a totally different race when it is after a big snow year.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: I think with the ski background it suits me.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: The first year I did broken arrow was a crazy snow year.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: You were like sliding on your butt on half of the sense and, like you know pretty much, you spikes to get up a couple of the climbs.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: So for me I'm hoping another big winter out in Tahoe so that it will be a fun snowy year for broken arrow.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: This is actually cause you're kind of a person that has this like great dichotomy of doing both.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Do you prefer the altitude or do you prefer the techie trails in the Northeast?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I like them both.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: I think they both suit me pretty well.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: You just need to be prepared and train for that.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: I've adapted over the years to handle altitude pretty well.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: I am a little nervous going in now that I'm like training mostly out of east, not at altitude, that maybe that will make it a little bit harder to be prepped for.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Uh, like some of these high altitude races like broken arrow or speed goat.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: Um, I will be going like to colorado for over christmas and trying to acclimate at altitude before the schemo nationals.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: So I think you know, having having the techie trails like right out the door in the east is definitely an advantage when you're doing some of these like more difficult mountain races, but actually can be a disadvantage if you're doing the more runnable ones just because the majority of the trails yeah, you know, just, you got to train specifically for what you're doing.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: So I'll end up doing like in some ways, like the dirt roads are so hilly around here that you can just go out and run dirt roads and you'll be ready for a for a west coast trail race.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: But if you want to get on the trails you can, you know, definitely handle anything if you're doing the long trail or appalachian trail in the east yeah, yeah, I feel like you guys have I mean there's a good mix.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Like you can really get a lot of different things you know to prepare you, you know specifically for stuff too, plus like I don't know how far you are from, like mansfield and stuff like that, but you can get like solid climbs, I mean 2 000 foot climbs in a lot of places or in some places.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: I feel like you know, yeah, now that I'm, I'm in Montpelier, so like Mount Mansfield is only a half hour away and they have, they have, you know, great super techie steep climbs on the long trail.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: But you also can just get on the uh, like service roads at you know the, the mountain there, and then you have, like you know they're, they're dirty, dirt and rocky and but not technical.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: So if you want to just get like hard vert for something like broken arrow, speed goat, that's really good training.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: And then we also have, like a few miles away now will be a like the trails up camel's hump which you know you can get up almost 4 000 foot.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: You know continuous climb on that if you want on trails.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: So that's amazing.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Plenty of good steep option and lots of good, yeah, nice dirt roads and rolling loops.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: So you got everything besides, you know, dead flat.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: You got to go to the track if you want that that's true.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this are you, are you a super competitive person like how are you dealing with like competition and stuff like that?
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: uh, I'm, I'm very competitive.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I've always been competitive like I.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I like to like to win, I like to do well uh, so, yeah, I like, I like competition.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: It's a fun to fun to put yourself out there against the best in the world.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: So I think I'm looking forward to it.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: You know, getting into some of these like really iconic competitive uh, trail races, yeah, the next few years, ccc, maybe like eventually, who knows, I'll do western states.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I think if I ever get a ticket again I'll have to accept it let me ask you this so you said best the world, like competing against the best in the world.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: You've had a few performances this year.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, broken arrow was obviously lights out, but like your speedo performance is like the first human, were you?
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: The first wait was under five hours this year.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you were under five, right, I think?
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Something like that yeah, it was.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I guess I was the first one under five, I think the course was slightly different this year, but look, seems like it was the same way and same amount of so.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, that was.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: That was a really good performance, and and then?
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: you tackle I'll just go on.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: But they have a right.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: So I I like running in against the competition.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: But it's been fun to get you know some of these chorus records.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: But I haven't done that many of like the biggest ultras, like head-to-head against some of the best guys in the world like hayden hawks or you know a killian or a you know jim walmsley.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: So I think in the next it'll be fun to actually go seek out that competition and it's definitely like it's one thing to run a course record.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: It's another thing to run a course record and beat all the best other runners in the world on that day it was really fun racing Eli at a JFK.
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, it's just insane because Eli I mean many people consider Eli to be one of the best in the world.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: So to go and beat Eli it's just kind of wild.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know the reason.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: I say that is because I've interviewed you've come up so many times in podcasts, like Michelino Senseri so many people I've spoken to that are like, oh yeah, like world class, one of the best in the world, if not like the best in the world.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: How does that mentally like click with you?
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: Does that?
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Do you like?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: Do you gain confidence from that?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Or do you still feel like I need to, like you just said, like I need to earn it by competing against, like the Killians of the world, the gyms of the world, hayden, people like that?
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, developing that self-belief is something I've been working on.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I think it's.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: You know, it's always hard to you know, like, go into a race and, you know, be confident that you are truly one of the best in the world and you're there to compete, for course, records and against the big names.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: So I've often liked to think of myself as, like a little bit of an underdog and especially after this year, I think I am going to be more on, you know, a lot of the top runner in the world's radar.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah, I'm trying to embrace that and uh, just keep, you know, getting out there doing the work and trying to keep believing in yourself so that, you know, you show up to the the line, you know, feeling confident, being uh like, ready to actually go from the gun and try to run with the best in the world.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Probably in the past it's something that you know.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I would, you know, get a little nervous for some of the big races, like going to europe and getting in some of these really competitive trail races.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I feel like I've often had slightly worse results, um, against, you know, these really stacked deep races, but looking forward to embracing it and, yeah, being hopefully able to compete with them in the future.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, I'm, I'm, I'm really stoked, like I'm buying David Sinclair stock man.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: I'm stoked for your future, so it's pretty sweet.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Well, listen man, yeah.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: Is there anything you think we?
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: didn't?
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: We didn't hit on, or do you think you feel pretty good, man?
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, yeah, go ahead.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Is there anything?
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: You think we didn't hit on, or do you think you feel pretty good?
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: I can't think of a lot more right now.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we covered a lot of different topics.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: If you can think of anything, I'm open.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like these are always pretty difficult on the Zoom ones.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: But I'm glad to hear you're going to be in Colorado in the next few months, so hopefully, uh, hopefully, look forward to meeting then and we can uh, maybe do a face-to-face interview and talk a little bit more and stuff like that.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: That'd be kind of fun.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: So.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Great, yeah, it was a pleasure to talk to you.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, yeah, dude you the best of luck in your upcoming, you know, for the schema season, as well as, uh, the mountain running season.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: If I don't bump into you in colorado, hopefully, uh, I look, hopefully meet you at uh at sunopi would be kind of fun.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, man yeah, I'll see you around yeah have a good one.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you too.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks, man what'd you guys think?
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Uh, what a great episode.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Such a fun chat with david sinclair.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: Oh man, the guy's a champion.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Just everything he's so dialed, everything from his training to the way he thinks and approaches the game.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Just a consummate, professional.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Guys, before you get going, do me a favor Hop on Instagram.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Let's get David Sinclair some followers.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: The guy is a legend.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Type in davidasinclair.92 on Instagram.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Give the man a follow.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Like some of his reels.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: He's got some of these sweet reels finishing JFK in just such dominant fashion.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, give him a follow, give him some support, send him a DM.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Let him know what you thought about the episode.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah guys, we got a great one coming out on Friday.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this one, but Friday we've got a great one too.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: None other than Mr Cade Michael is joining the pod.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Keep a lookout for that.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: One Personal favorite of mine Really fun conversation with Cade.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, this is a great week of podcasting.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Hope you guys have a great week and, yeah, chat with you on Friday.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you,