Latest / Masterminds Podcast / From Campus Fun to a Pan-African Empire: The Echo House Untold Story || Masterminds Podcast EP33

Transcript

From Campus Fun to a Pan-African Empire: The Echo House Untold Story || Masterminds Podcast EP33 · Masterminds Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: How did Echo House all begin?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: We did our first event called the Red and White Party.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: After doing a few editions, a team from Legon reached out and said they wanted to bring it to um Legon.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Weren't you scared?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is possible.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a thing of just shifting your mind into allowing goodness in.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody asked me, what if all this um just went away.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Went away.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, then can you imagine my CV?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're laughing.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Masterminds Podcast.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: As usual, I am your tour guide on this amazing journey to sharpen your most powerful tool, your mind.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Today is going to be an excellent conversation because the person I'm sitting with has done awesome things in this country.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: I watched them from when they grew up, where it seemed like, oh, this is a nice, interesting trend, to when they became a phenomenon.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: They've gone from enjoying themselves to perfecting their craft to becoming an agency, to becoming a company, to becoming a force in Africa.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm lucky to be sitting right here with Beryl Jacoon.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: How are you doing, Beryl?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm great.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: I'm great.
• 1:18
  unknown: How are you?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm awesome like that.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: The way I had to chase her to get her here.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: She's busier than I am, and I understand.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hope you're good today.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very, very good.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So the intro I was given wasn't just hype.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, yeah.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: I I watched your I watched your growth.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I remember when I saw you guys in uni, and it's like, oh, this is nice.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is fresh.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, these are the cool kids in town.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then I saw, okay, next level.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, next level.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Then now I couldn't, my eyes couldn't even follow the growth anymore.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: How first of all, how do you feel about your journey?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I am firstly grateful.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I I never knew that we could get to this point.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I actually didn't know that every time you know something happens, I'm like, okay, this is possible.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's also a big discovery, you know, for me as well.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I think the other bit is shocked because like what?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I just keep keep saying, like, what is going on?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do they believe us?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Are they giving us the job?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, um, I'm very, very grateful for how things have turned out, for how things have grown.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's amazing.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's let's go right back to the beginning.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Campus days.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: How did Echo House all begin?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I was so I'm a civil engineer.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what my classmates who wanted to say, but I um I had ended up in the civil engineering class.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And well, there were 250 boys and 25 girls.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, hey, what is this?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I just I I mean, everything overwhelmed me, but I had always liked to write.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So um it was sort of like a bit of an escape for me.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So a friend and a friend of mine and I came together to, you know, put this um campus newsletter together.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: At the time, um, so um my husband Bright was in class with me.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time it was like we were um about dating, or we had just started dating around that time, and he felt like I was spending too much time with it, so he'd come and help with it so that he can spend time with me.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of how that's sort of how he got involved.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it became um like a magazine that came out every semester, and we'll put the the stuff that happened on campus together.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think the idea for us was that we're calling it echo because we said we wanted to echo K and UST to the rest of the world.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's sort of what we were doing for starters.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm a writer, so I was just writing a lot, and then I remember Bright and Kwamna, I mean they were like, you know, let's put more parties, let's make it more fun.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we did that, and it became like something that people were very excited about.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, so we thought that okay, this this could be a thing.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, after doing a few editions, a team from Legon reached out and said they wanted to bring it to um Ligon.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we realized that there was that openness.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that's one of the things with us, it's always been very, very, very organic.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like this team comes together like, oh, we want to bring it to Ligon.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, okay, let's just do it, let's open up to that.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so we did that, and we realized I was becoming a force.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then someone on the team suggested that we're always waiting for events to happen to print the magazine.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: So let's just do an event.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we did our first event called the Red and White Party.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we said everybody in Kumasi.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, you don't invite me.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've been head of this.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, you know, it was, you know, the kind of thing that just sort of comes together, you know, like, and we we asked everyone to wear red and white, and they did.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, actually, they're taking us very seriously.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was a really big party, you know, people came from Accra and stuff like that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we we we felt we could see that there could there was something in this, but then we were also finishing school, and so we knew that okay, we I think from the beginning there was no plan to continue it, but a team of students came together and said they wanted to continue the maximum.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So then it meant that Bite and I would um while we're doing our national service, we'll be looking for arts and stuff like the business aspects of it, while um they look at the editorial.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and that you know worked out well, so that that's sort of where everything um began.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: So this explains it.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one thing I keep trying to let people understand is that you can't start perfect.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, you know, when people see maybe Echo House at the top there, they think you wrote a 15-year plan or going to become an agency and this and that and that, but it just started with a magazine.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean a newsletter, yeah, and then grew from there.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think a lot of people don't understand organic growth is the best way to go.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think every story I've heard of every big company always just started with one idea and leaders who were ready to evolve.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: But at this point in time, weren't you scared?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that because you know, when you are going to school, everybody knows, okay, I'm going to get a good job after school, continue down the you know, corporate ladder and everything.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: Weren't you scared, focusing your energy on starting something of your own?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the the great thing about it is that I was not starting something of my own.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was just having fun.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: I actually didn't know that it was going to become a business.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that is also part of what really helped me to just feel free and do.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when um we finished school, Bright and I were doing our service at Urban Roads because we are civil engineers.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I mean, so it's almost like we are doing, we'll do the work that we're supposed to do for service, but then we would finish and go and do um the echo stuff.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, we'll go to Kumasi and go and do an event.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's that that's sort of our, you know, um, and it wasn't really something that we we we had to sat down to say, okay, um, we'll do this for two years and then we'll do this for three years.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when we finished service, um we came across Young Pofranko who had a very small office space in Osu.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and offered it to us because she's like, You guys are doing well with it.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my mom, who was also very confused about what we were doing, like, I don't know what this thing is, but okay, you know, and we went making money from it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in the morning, she would give um me pocket money to go and do whatever that was.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, she she took our old furniture at home, and she my favorite color was pink, so she made the pink and she bought us a computer and a printer, and then we sort of finished the place.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so working from there.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even at that point, we didn't know.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we come there every day, but what is this supposed to be?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then one of the engineers from Urban Roads reached me and said, somebody has an agency.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: And at that time, I didn't know there was anything like an agency.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody has an agency and would like to employ a business development person.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I should go and meet him at um Labardi Beach.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I go and meet him and he tells me about agency, and it's like, oh, he hears that I'm very industrious and da-da-da.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the offer, and it was good money.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I hear his pitch, but here's my pitch.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have a magazine and I do these events, and this is what it looks like.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I would rather he supported me to do this.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I'm offering you a job.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: You're selling me your but eventually he gave us a little space in his basement, um, in his agency um at Usu.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how come I realized, oh, actually, there's like this thing.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: There's a whole world, yes.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we had been, um, I realized that, for example, maybe if somebody wants to sponsor an event, and we you know, offers we'll we'll send them a bill, a very a very small bill.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: But through this partnership, I realized that look, people are, it's like maybe we can do an actual proposal for this and we can, you know, share it with the client, the clients can approve it, and they would actually pay the money.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I remember the very first event we did, the very first proposal we sent out was to Guinness Ghana.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was for this um um twin party in um Aqua and Kumase.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, like the the budget we had, because we couldn't, we didn't know how to cost for things at the time.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then the agency showed us exactly how to cost.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I I was just talking to Bach, I'm like, there's no way they'll pay for this.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nobody will pay for this.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then they sent an email and say, Oh, approved, but maybe we just make these tweaks.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, they will pay us this money to do this, so that was like a big shift for me, realizing that there's actually value in it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all this time, my parents are confused.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you going to go and do your engineering um and stuff like that?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: My dad, you know, got bright and I enrolled in a um an oil and gas um course.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, went once and then we, you know, we are not going anymore.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, what's up with you people?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, but you know, I I feel like they didn't they didn't fight against it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost like, okay, you let's see what it is.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I think maybe they thought I would get tired of it and move on, you know, or something like that.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's a phase.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a phase that will pass.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I wasn't passing now.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Years were passing, and my mom's like, this thing is really serious, so you are going to be doing this.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it also spoke for itself for time because of the growth um and it the ability to pay for you know the stuff we're working with and stuff like that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: My mom, for example, the earlier jobs we would get, because you know you need to pre-finance.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so when we get the job, then she would pre-finance it, um, and then we will pay her back.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: She was your dog.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: She was my, you know, she was my you know, so and she really wouldn't ask me any questions, you know.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, you need money for this, you know, and you know, she gave us, and then when we we are paid by the client, um, she she gets the money back.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I had like a really good um base around me.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know sometimes when you're going to start business, it feels like I need to raise this kind of money, or like you know, that the the what you mentioned is very interesting.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: This idea of getting it right before you know you begin.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because typically, like now, I feel like things have really gone, but I still have things that I feel are not you know perfect.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: I still feel like there's some work I need to do around some things to improve them.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's I feel I realize I said it's going to be like that forever.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you would keep improving it, improving it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you solve one problem and then a new one emerges based on the solution that you just um because it's like the the tougher you get, the better you get at solving problems, yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: The more life throws you more complicated problems.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it also keeps you hungry and keeps you growing.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you ever get to a point where everything is comfortable, you'll just fizzle out.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that that I feel I I mean it's interesting because now some of the things that maybe I used to worry about five, six, we've been doing doing this now for 17 years.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when that I don't it it sort of just you know crept up on me.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that it had been 17 years, but every time you solve something, a new thing emerges.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but now some of the things I used to worry about then when I look at it now, it's something that I find so funny.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, some was I even worried about you know, something like this, because the real thing is now staring at me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, how did you manage?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is very tricky for most people, because from what I'm hearing, Echo House started as a side hustle.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Echo House started as a passion project, yeah, and then grew into a side hustle, yeah, and then became an actual company.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, a lot of people have like the campus trend kind of thing, and they aren't able to transition without losing the attachment to the campus.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, how were you able to see that it's time we can still own the campus space but also enter the corporate world?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm extremely um, what's the word to use?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um in tune with myself, right?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I feel like the team that I have around me allows that for me because um everyone who works with me knows that the students uh like I don't I won't play with it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is so they know like don't go don't go and mess with the the students, Barrel will be upset about it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: So this is what it is.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we have foundational um what makes us tick.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll make a little reference to, for example, this year Tidal Rave, and I had a couple of uh sponsors asking me how we knew to bring these acts on board.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah the funny thing is, for me, I don't actually even know who they are.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I was also like surprised seeing Gonna Boy perform and people were holding up their teams.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, when just before the event began, one of the KNUST um team members came to me and said, Pero, I bought my I bought my teams and they they only arrived last night.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: If they didn't come, I would not have made it to and you see at that time I didn't know what I didn't know that Gunnar Boy's song has to do with Teams.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I didn't actually so it was when now the performance was done and they were talking about so that's what it meant, right?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I am very clear of what my role is, about what what is my role actually?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: My role is to facilitate.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: My role is not about what I like think or what I like.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's maybe a bit awkward to say this, but I'm not a party person.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and if I was the party organizer, yeah, and if I was doing it, yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: If I was if I was not doing echo, I don't know if I would have ever gone for tidal rays.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean, I usually would say that to my team, it's like how you know, but I it's not something that I would typically have done.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, first of all, we're doing this magazine thing, we begin to see that there are real opportunities, but we you know, we will sit down and consciously see what is the linkage between these two things.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: These campus team members, if we build something, they can finish school and come and work in it.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so now you have people who have um who came and have been now with me for 12 years, 13 years, and stuff like that.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously there'll be a few fallouts here and there, but the truth is I am very interested in the idea that we are building this and we are all going together.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And as much as I can, I will try and carry everybody along.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and something I've also learned, especially from Bright, is this idea of not looking at anybody but what you're doing.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what that means is, you know, sometimes you're doing something, you have something good going, but you see what another person is doing, you begin to feel like, oh, should I get distracted?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: When we used to have the magazine, every few weeks there will be a new person who says, I'm also doing a campus magazine.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there were these little battles that could happen.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I mean, now that I think of it, I I I think it's so funny.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: But at the time it felt like an existential crisis, like, oh my god, you know.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, all he ever said was, Let's just do what we're doing.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not doing it for anybody, we are doing it to go what we are we are doing.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So forget about everybody and let's make it happen.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so now somebody can say, Do you remember the the magazine that you're worried about?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it has been that way across the years for different things, yeah, for emerging agencies, for because I also think sometimes you have something really good going, but maybe you're looking at Echo House and thinking, okay, how do I, you know, and that makes you you know, that derail you from the real thing that you are trying to do.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Steve Jobs calls it um drowning out the noise.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think it happens to a lot of people instead of focusing on their goal, focusing on what they are doing, yes, they are looking around, left try, trying to see what other people are doing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: But no stories are the same.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, you know, the reason I like to interview so many amazing people is nobody is going to come and sit on this couch and give the same story that someone else did.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: The path is different for everyone.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So if you don't focus on your path and you're watching somebody else, you'll yeah, you'll get lost.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: That that part of it is very big for me, truly.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so sometimes you can see that maybe there's a new trend of something going on with our competitors, or you know, something that everybody is doing, we may not do.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes people reach out and say, Why are you not?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: This is very easy, why are you not just getting in it?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I and I have my very specific reasons.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have realized that we are a very differentiated agency.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is even though we offer probably similar services to other agencies, there are certain unique things about us that makes the client choose us.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: So typically when you're in the room, you're not in a room with somebody else, you're in a room by yourself because of what you bring to the plate.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore, my focus is on that differentiation.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that differentiation is not something I'll see with anybody else.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to make sure that I'm USP.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always very um direct about what that thing is.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Else, every time I get into everyone else's, you know, I'm only I'm becoming one of the many.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that's that's that's something that I'm very cautious about.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And trying to make everyone like you will mostly lead to no one liking you enough.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you I've I've I've come to that realization, you know, it's like the more some people become crazy about you, this other set becomes extremely upset with you.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's sort of when you begin to know you are you are hitting the nerve.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, else you are just that's good.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're just everyone's nothing.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: I remember we were starting a project once, and somebody told me we shouldn't put the links name on it because there are people who love links and there are people who hate links.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if the links name is on it, the links haters won't come.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let me let me even tell you the headsets.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: When we started the host, yeah, when we started the whole journey with the headsets and the sound that we're going to, people were like, no, don't call it links.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that the person who doesn't like links can still go and buy it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Then I was like, but what about the person who loves links?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, and all this.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need everybody.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just need those who want to patronize what I'm doing.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a part of life.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love how you are saying agencies come to you for what you offer uniquely.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I mean, companies.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: There are certain companies that may never come to you because what you offer doesn't fit them.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And that is perfectly fine.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and you can't be for everyone.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's not possible.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can be, you can just for the person you are for, you need to make sure that it is you are hitting the code, like it's working.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and usually what I find is that somebody starts off saying, No, they are not for me.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: But the success story of what you've done for others, now they're like, um, we are here now.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's have a conversation.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because they like the results.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: They like the results, you know.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we you know, we started out as underdogs.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have this mentality of we are, you know, we we day until you give us a chance.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the reserve player mentality.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not worried about, for example, I know I can do this huge project, and then you decide that I should only come on to hype, which is what's used to happen with us a lot.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, bring them on to hype.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we will hype so well, yeah, that you're like, actually, um, can you add on?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this is how we've grown.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's almost the story with almost every client that we work for.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: We will do it well enough for you to want to open us up into more things.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's how we've grown into other countries.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we haven't gotten up and said, hello, um, we are coming into this country.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: We'll come because a client has pulled us into that country because we are very happy with the work we've done in another country.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's that's our thing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a little chance and then we'll make it worth it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: You'll impress them so much in that small area that it'll grow.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have a growth mentality.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I really like that.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's my that's my everything.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, then let's talk about growing into becoming a leader.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this started out with just doing it for you, yeah, and then it spiraled into having to lead so many people.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how did you handle that transition?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I've handled it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, I'm an extremely emotional person who is trying to balance.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That with leadership, right?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And what that comes with.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what this means is have this idea of collective, the collective yeah, let's all go, let's all make it happen.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Also, versus what the company can even do at all.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, from the beginning, maybe let's say that Beryl is like ice cream, like trying I want to make everybody happy, I want to make sure everybody is with the team, I want to make sure that everybody comes along the journey.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it it doesn't always turn out that way because in my mind, I'm feeling like, oh, you should know my heart.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, now that I think of it, I'm like, why did why would you expect that?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: In my mind, I'm like, you should know my heart, and you must know that I want good for you, and I won't want to mess you up.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have a feeling or a responsibility that when somebody comes and and does work with me, they must be better off for it.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I've come to an awareness of the fact that everybody is um thinking of their good.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes the good, the good of maybe what the business and then the good of this person don't necessarily meet.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what that means is they may walk away, um, they may um go on to other things, and then it can become very heartbreaking.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I have done it also long enough to realize that sometimes that also even works for us, you know.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but usually says that um there's nothing like bad news because sometimes there's something that is it sounds very terrible in the beginning, but with time you realize actually this was good.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's good that this happened, not only even for our selfish reason, but also even for the person.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: For the person as well, you know.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like my big strength is team building.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: What I mean by that is usually before somebody sees what they can do, I can see it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and so I am always in this space of you know, getting people to try out things that from the beginning is like, I this is too much, I can't.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then they start and they're like, actually, this is I'm a natural at this.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think we've done it with several things, you know, so many different things.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Almost everybody who's been at Echo will start at start out with one thing and then will go on to so many other things.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you know, it's like they've tried several, you know, different things.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I'm very proud of.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm also hopeful that it's like I I'm hoping that I'm able to, you know, keep passing that you know downward.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is if I cannot, because now the team is big, right?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if I can't do that thing that I used to do, I'm hopeful or um I'm praying that now the people who are taking over from me also see that that potential and that potential, and then they help people to become that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: But that's sort of my relationship with leadership, you know, so it's happy and sad at the same time.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: It takes systems to be able to do this, especially when it's oh, three, four people.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: That one is direct leadership.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: But now, I mean, before you were telling me you are 200 people now.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so how are you able to put systems in place to manage these kind of things?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, I think that it is something that is underestimated when it comes to startups, right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and then let me explain that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we Echo House, our competition is other agencies who have their systems that built from global, yeah, you know, who are simply um adapting to the market.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a system they are running with, and then you have to build everything from scratch.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like from the beginning, something I underestimated.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is what it takes to put something in place, to um drive change management within the organization, yeah, you know, for everybody to adapt to it, um, to not say this is how we've always done it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the balance between the way we did it to get to this point and the new way and the clash, you know, because why is it this way and why is it that way?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we grew up in a system where we're all together, we're in the office midnight after midnight making things happen.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: With time, you now get people come on who think it's it's time to close.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let me go home.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you have this dynamic of why are we closing?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we here?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what is that middle point to find?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So this is, I think, where we are now.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And added complexity is that people are in different countries.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what is normal here is strange.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I mean, we've just started operations in South Africa, and like I have had like the shock of my life because why they are so different.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I say different, it's not you see, culture is not bad or good, it's just who people are.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So these um, so West Africans are, you know, especially Ghanaians are in this space where very humble, will do whatever it takes, you know, don't really, there's no balance, you know, and which is also not a very good thing.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no balance, like, you know, the work until the work is done.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and then if you close setup 5 a.m., you close setup 5 a.m.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then you meet South Africans who think it's five.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, you can't reach them.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's like it's not like they are not there.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: The culture of the place does not allow for that.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: So when you bring people together, which which one is the right way?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are an agency that is also trying to become a like something that's across the continent.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it means that we have to pick the best of every um, you know, culture culture and bring it together.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where the tension is at.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because the person who is feeling like, why are you not here?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, why why why can't I reach five?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't, and that's not then.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: This other person feels like, What why do you want to work beyond five?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just one of thousands of things that we come to realize.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: So many differences in the world.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So many different, yeah, you know.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that dynamic is, and I I feel like if we overcome it, then we probably have really hit something, yeah.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because no matter where you're from, you can come into the system and function well.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, then we can become one Africa, one, and work with like what one unit.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: One, yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: If not, then we're always going to be fragmented and therefore weaker for it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this is now my new um conversation.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is my this is what's on my plate now.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: How do we bring everything together?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I feel like in Ghana, so presently we operate in seven countries.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ghana, we call Ghana our um what's it called our center of excellence?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, which means I like that your center of excellence.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Ghana is like an experiment, right?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's Ghana is where we try out every new thing, we experiment because this is where we started.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so now the idea is how do you what what kind of thing should we should we be experimenting here to export it to the rest of the world?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So something like Tidal Rave, 12 years in Ghana, and 12 editions in Ghana.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um Liberia is doing their fourth edition in December.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you're trying to, but you see, so it's I can barely organize an event outside of my neighborhood, and you're organizing it in different countries, but it's also like allowing them to own it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is that thing like they did something last night called uh Sundown Avenue?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so it's like a um a vendor kind of thing, and if I show you like yesterday I was looking at it and I was looking at the pictures, and I maybe had like maybe seven or eight thousand people there.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I was just asking Kihi, like the GM, that how is this?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So he was just saying, so that's the difference, right?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe this will not work in Ghana.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: In Ghana, yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: But this is Liberia, and it is an incredible um, you know, event here.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: So just allowing it's like you have the systems or the blueprints, but you allow the countries to modify.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you were an autonomous leader who was saying no, don't do this, do that, yeah, it wouldn't work because you would try and implement things for Ghana and all the different seven countries.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Please list your seven countries for me.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, well, Ghana, um, Liberia, Benin, Nigeria, Côte d'Ivoire, Sierra Leone.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's six.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's seven.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Seven, yes.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you add essay is like the eighth, eighth, yes.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: But in SA, we are not we are not operating inside SA.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So what we have done is that we've created a company or a group that we call Baku.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Baku.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So Baku obviously means one.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what Baku does is, you know, a lot of the companies that exist in Africa, they are headquartered in South Africa.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk to you in South Africa to allow us to handle Africa for you.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because what we have done is that apart from the countries we are existing in, we also have partnerships in countries that we don't have presence in.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so we have a whole system, you know.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, like last week, we launched Fanta in Guinea, Fanta, uh, Fanta's new campaign in Guinea.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: We don't exist in Guinea, you know, but we have a system that allows us to function, to do work like that.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: This year we've done work in Botswana and Seychelles as well.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we can, it's like we have a plug and play that we can simply activate for you.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what Baku does.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's existing to say, let talk to us to talk to the rest of Africa.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, something happened in the industry a few years ago where marketing budgets all suddenly shrunk.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that must have affected you guys heavily because it affected every agency.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, some of them closed down and stuff.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: How were you guys able to maneuver through this and even grow exponentially afterwards?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the biggest thing about marketing is the dynamism.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is an extremely dynamic art.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so typically, what happens usually is it shrinks because it is being moved into other things.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or um it shrinks because there's a new, there's something new that um now brands are sort of focusing on.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the way that we have grown is that at every point in time, we are looking for what is the next thing.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um we started out doing events, um, at the time, campus events, and then we got into digital marketing.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is where we created.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: So at every point when we do that, we create a department for it.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we created digits, and then that basically became like um digital marketing, and put you put you on a retainer, and then you know, you are from there.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: We got into, then we added storyboard, which is like production, but you know, we just do it for our internal um campaigns.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Then we came, then you know, we're doing all this title revenue and stuff like that.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: So what we then did, I think then COVID came.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: When COVID came, we realized that you couldn't do BTL events, so it was not possible.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we built Influence Africa.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's when we launched Influence Africa, and um the the interesting thing with that is from that from the beginning, you know, the our biggest clients, um the biggest um users of our service were other agencies.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um everybody was canceling their BTL budgets and moving it into um into the influencer space.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had built something that could um, you know, we have now also, it's like since then we have also moved in something we're calling kings of content.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we've always had cool keeps.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: We are really looking at how to bring that back in a way that allows for creation of content that allows brands to sort of be fused in.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so my response or my answer to that is that we have to be very in tune with what is value for the client.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's something that happens to agencies, we get very um uh pulled into what we think value is.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we've also mastered how to do something so well that we feel like we need to reap from you know from learning that.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you you don't dictate that.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we found recently, for example, at this year, all this idea, a conversation of AI and stuff, it changes a lot.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, what and very soon it's going to even change what clients are willing to pay for.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: One of the brands that we manage on an African, so we have brands that we manage across the continent.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: What we are realizing is for example, we are doing the work, but they have um we are we have to use a tool, um, an AI tool.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: But what this AI tool is doing is learning how to not need the agency.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So can you imagine what that looks like, right?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we are very um in tune with what's next, where is the industry shifting?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: What is important to this client?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get um how do we not get so drawn into what we have mastered at doing that we will keep forcing it on a client?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so as an example, we are very insistent on you know this idea of uh what we make or what we buy, right?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: So make or buy for us, like these decisions.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: What would you go and like would we go invest in equipment so that every time you give us work, we have to force this equipment on you.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like we have to use the equipment because you've invested in it, we've invested in it as opposed to when you brief us, we can go into the market and find the very best of whatever is out there.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if there's new sound, you will get that new sound essentially if you're willing to pay for it.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it's something that we've been very cautious about this idea of what you invest in versus what.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we invest in probably vans or tracks.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Those are, you know, you would move them as university to move your stuff, but very cautious about what you go and you know invest in.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: But now we go into another market like Nigeria and realize that it is the bargaining chip of at the agency.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the agency that has more equipment.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's an agency that gets the job.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that dynamism is also like now.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: We have to, okay, when you play in Ghana, this is your advantage.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: But now when you're going to Nigeria, this is how you must change, you know, to uh adapt in the new environment that you're in.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: How are you managing to stay sane and all this?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because it sounds like it's the you know, the goalpost is consistently shifting, you need to keep maneuvering.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you believe that I'm saying?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I I think um, and I I try no, I don't want to be as but you know, like I work with my partner and um he is like a rock.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and I'm like, what I'm gonna do.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Calibrate collector to Joe 2, Joe 2.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: So he's you know, calm and in there, you know, everything will be fine.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always saying that if you know, um, if it wasn't for him, I don't think I'll still be doing this.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: But and then I also have the management team and we have a regional team.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, something happened a few days ago, and uh I just it was an aftermath, uh, an aftermath of tidal rave when somebody was saying something online, and you know, I get very worried about these kind of things, and when it was happening, but I just you know, it's like don't worry about it.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's like don't worry about it, you know, you you get it, and then there's maybe someone on the regional team who is texting me and saying, because I realized that in the tidal rave group, everybody was like, you know, what was being said was not true, but the idea that I didn't have to fight, and this person on the original team said she didn't have to fight either, because this army of people know you can't say that it's not true, like you know, and so those are the little joys that I look out for these days, you know.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because when tidal wave itself is happening, you know, because of um three years ago, yeah, the cobit situation, the big now I have yeah, so now I have um like uh PTSD.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so it's like I can't when there's a crowd, you know.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the first time we moved to um Kokobite, um when the event was happening, I couldn't come out into the crowd.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when that really came, you came to pull me off and walk me around.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you see, nothing is going on, everything is fine.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So just this idea that there's an army of people, and if you said what's the thing that I am most grateful for, I'd say the people because like I believe in echo.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I think there's some people who even believe in echo more than you.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Did you get it?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes I can give up on something, and then people are like, no, no, no, no.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that is something that has been incredible for me.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people who have dedicated all their time, some of them nine years, ten years, five years, it it is it's not something to be taken for granted, especially in this environment where um somebody has told me about this concept of options.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody believes that options, like if anything bothers you, there are several options.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: So many options, yeah.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so if somebody sticks with you through you know all the difficult days like that, that's a really important um thing that they have done for you.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Shows proper loyalty, and it also shows you are given enough value to make them to want to stay there, yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but how do you handle those difficult days?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I remember the coco bite thing, you know, I was watching, and some of my people were there and everything.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was watching and thinking, oh my god, I wonder what you're going through right now.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you handle those dark days?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so um I'll say community.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, um, when when Kukoviti happened, I mean today when I'm talking about it, I can feel very different, and I can say it needed to happen to get us to think differently.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because what Tidal Wave has become today is completely different from what it used to be.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even the visibility that it has, and you know, like when we finished this year and I saw people talking about it on Facebook, I'm like, you guys, suddenly it's like now you notice Tidal.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is the 12th edition, yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so people are like, I noticed this year, like there's a lot of what is that event?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, it's been 12 years since I think.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: But um, here's the thing like after the event, I think the next day, we went to go, like, you know, when it started, then we could see all these.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: We went to go and buy kebab at our junction.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was me and Brighton, a couple of you know, uh, my team members, Paula, Kwame Che, like, and there were people, the people sitting on the next table were talking about it.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: They don't they like they're just talking about it and you know, really insulting the organizers and just talking about how they you know, just so much conversation, and I think at a point they're looking at it and say, And then they're like, Well, I don't know, yes, I like it.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was the most um unfiltered, you know, but yeah, you got the raw data from them, yeah.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my mom called me and she said, like, because you know, in her mind, we're doing some of our thing in our corner, and what has happened?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Those are difficult days, I will not lie.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I went back into the office and I'm saying, let's stop this thing here.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: We are done, don't do it anymore.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's done.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, we hadn't because of COVID, we had not done it for two years.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so in our minds, we're reintroducing tidal rave.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what we thought.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: So we thought we were going to have to expect the number of people who are who were waiting for it to come back.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't we thought that we had to, so we that year we did storms on campus.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we thought we had to, it's like will people come?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then the thing in Ghana is nobody buys tickets ahead.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't plan, you can't say, you know, we're expecting this or we're expecting that, yeah.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then we tried out with all of that, also we tried tried out a new venue, so it's like so many different things at once.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean, and tight wave before buses, students, you know, so it was very controlled, yeah.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: 10 o'clock closed, come back.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but this time people drove, like, you know, so the students, the students who came for that tide wave, they got into their buses and went to the people who drove there.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: People drove, people didn't want to park in the park, the car park, so it's you know, it's that versus uh in a whole new dynamic of you know the venue and parking space, so many things.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: So it was real learning for us, but community is that I woke up in the morning, maybe they are doing um um all these spaces and things like that, insulting us, and then I'll hear that one of our clients was on there defending us, and I'm like, you know, or somebody that you don't expect to have bothered, you know, is on Twitter fighting back and defending you, yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not so much the fact that we need people to fight back, but that solidarity is something that I will never forget.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: But that shows the value that you've built over time, yeah.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because everyone, like you know, people will look at you and say, No, these people do things right all the time.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: So if something goes wrong, don't throw stones at the person.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: Something actually went wrong, yeah.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and you know, so I though there were there were there was a reporter who went to see my mom.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, interesting.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I mean, my mom was like, This thing is like, why?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's you know?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the power of community meant that these people would cover for us.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like so many people, people just randomly call and say, Bro, don't worry, we've got you.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, you know, then the team in the office, yeah, with me saying, Hey guys, I don't know whether we need to be like, I think we should just because you know, tight rave is like a marketing tool for us in a sense.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it doesn't bring in the revenue people think it does.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: People count the people.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's you know, they say, I'm counting your money.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, we've moved that's what I'm saying.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: It probably needed to happen because it forced us to think of the event very differently.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now moving to LaPau, it's forced us to make it a commercial event.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: We think of it very differently.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, so um well, so now they are casting out from it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's better, it's better than before.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you you it's just I think the intentionality of saying, okay, no, this thing has to transition into something that sustains itself.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because if it was living on the idea of a marketing budget that Echo is willing to give, you are going to now maybe sacrifice maybe the quality of sound.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: You get it?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's almost like this is the budget you have.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, make do with it what you can.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: But you now start to look at selling it differently, positioning it differently, allowing it to breathe.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's why this year, international artist and stuff like that.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: You so you know, um, international because we are trying to also take tidal wave international, yeah.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, this year in Liberia, we are taking a Ghanaian act to Liberia as an international act.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because for them, that's what they do.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: They've been asking for this person.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: We are taking this person.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we are hoping that next year we are going to carry a couple of the Ghanaians and because because next year we want to do Nigeria, we want to do South Africa, okay, and then obviously still Liberia and Liberia and Ghana.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we will put out a team, or let's say, like a you know, a lineup that will do all the four countries in a sense.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So our our thing is you if you go into like Nigeria as an all-Ghan festival, you will struggle.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: But if you say this from Ghana, this from here, this from here, then it allows you to also export you know your talent, you know, to the rest of so that that is sort of our our reason, right?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and we realize also that sometimes you want to be seen on a global scale.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you need to have to start to infuse some of these things, you know, else you'll be really great as a festival that's happening, but nobody actually knows you beyond the shorts.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_02: They say think global, act local.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so that's our big thing.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like next year, how would you um and I mean it's interesting?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: We had like Deban coming, they came to witness it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, because they had made a proposal for us to bring it to Deban.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we are looking at just basically how we can allow ourselves to think very differently for this.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, now let's go into darker times.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: I know every company that is at the top has had dark days where they almost thought they weren't going to come out.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not talking tidal rave, public dark days, I'm talking internally.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Have you gone through such a thing before and how did you come out of it?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: I think every day.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, you know, when you are in an agency, one of the biggest things is your talent.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you build around your talent.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your talent is the representation of your business.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, your talent is who you are.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now, sometimes what can happen is is one of two things.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we are a growing agency, and then there are the multinationals who can throw basically anything, right?
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's that where you know sometimes this is what happens like you grow the person, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, and then somebody just snatches.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's usually something that is proper challenging.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because if an agency has existed for maybe 30, 40 years, what they can do, and you who is you know at your yeah, now you can't fight that.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can't fight that, right?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, but sometimes we've been lucky because that we also found people are willing to sacrifice.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: But in terms of you know, um, for an agency like us, losing a big client is a big deal.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes you're you know you're doing everything right, but you've been there for a while, and that's enough for anybody.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not because you've done something wrong, you know, those are very difficult.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they just want a fresh look.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like you know, it's it's not you, it's yeah, life.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I know there'll be agencies too who've also come to you for that same reason.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when it happens, so it's it's yeah, it's it's like a you have to understand it because yeah, you some some of the businesses you also got, you got because somebody lost it.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's it's it's those for me, those two though that's what I wake up fearing.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, talent and then um um losing a client.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do you do about it?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because like both of these things, let's say, for instance, the talent one, for instance, it's happened to me so many times.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'll be there and somebody comes to offer my employee an amount of money, and I'm like, bro, go.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: I can't I wish I I would get that job that you're going to take.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do you handle these two?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, my thing is while I still have the person, I want to do the very best I can.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, um, you know, so I'm always saying to my leadership team, like, this is the very best we can do.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I am, and they know it that, for example, when it gets better, they can see it also in their pockets.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: But you also have to be very intentional about a next level, right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like the whole idea of succession is it's inevitable.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't avoid people, no matter how whatever those things will happen.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is succession for you?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: When it comes to the client conversation, it's not maybe about eight or nine years ago, we woke up and realized that there was one telco that was like our about 60 or 70 percent of our revenue.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: We had to go on a mission to say diversify.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we had a mission to bring them to a 30%.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, today, I mean, when we look at our, you know, we they're about a five percent.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you know, so that means that you know, we we intentionally went in on that, meaning that no one brand can have too much of an effect on you, which is something the brands also do.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: So they will also diversify when it comes to agencies, right?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they will have several.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you also need to make sure that you have built that system in place, yeah, so that when you have um one falling off, you have so many others to support, you know.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes the reason why an agency will close is because their main, their biggest brand is, yeah, you know, then now they can't afford the system they've created based off of that brand.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's for me, I think the the biggest thing.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like it will still head, but I need to create a system such that no one thing can pull me down so much, yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, interesting.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so one thing I've noticed about Echo is as much as there's a lot of talent, a lot of creativity, you've built great systems, you are intentional about culture.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: How do you manage to do that?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's so difficult to misstep and just go with the flow.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: How do you manage to be so intentional, intentional about culture all the time?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, this is my thing, right?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: When I was telling you about how we grew, um many of the very great things we did or have done have not come from me.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I let me explain that to you.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't decide that we should start doing events, it came from somebody who said, What are we even waiting for?
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: The man who's about several things.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tidal rave, I remember the the brainstorm, you know, Kafu, Viroski, like I remember it.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't suggest that.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um and I can go on to several things, you know.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what I realize is that my job, and sometimes when you're growing something, you think that your job is to make things happen.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: My job is to create a good foundation or a good environment for good things to happen.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the only thing I can do.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so what is a good environment?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: We work with a lot of creatives.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: What is a good environment?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be the boss that, like, if I'm coming and everybody is running and trying to fix things because what I realized is they thrive in environments where they are free and have, you know, and and are trusted, you know, with the responsibility that is given to them.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that is very important to me.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: What is a great environment for a creative?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a great environment is one that allows for you know them to freely express themselves, yeah.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, to disagree, you know, freely, to create things that are not only for the client.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if maybe um like we are constantly coming up with so many different things, we have something we have the tribes.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: So in Echo House, apart from being in the department you are in, you know, we have created four tribes, you know, um, based on the colors of Echo.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: So blue magic, pink flame, um, purple, um, purple haze, purple haze, and and and uh the fourth one, black if if I was the black could be my tribe, and it's very competitive.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: So every year we'll have like the games and somebody wears like you know that kind of thing.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but what it does is that it's creating it created a community that people like to belong to as a foundation before you come and tell them what work needs to be done.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: If it only exists because of the work that needs to be done, work can be done anyway.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if it exists because of the family that is created.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: When I and I use family in the sense of community, community enables people to feel like I belong to something that matters, yeah.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's it's a foundation for me, like it is very important to me.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: From the campus teams to the teams in the office, community is a very important aspect of the whole ecosystem, okay, you know, yeah, ecosystem.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: True, never thought about that.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's it's that's that's my thing, and now we are trying to see how we replicate that in the other countries, you know, as they go so that they also have that kind of um so yeah, culture is the bread and butter, it's important to you.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, have you been able to translate that into the other countries that you are setting up as well?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I will talk about Liberia.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, the culture is incredible.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't, I'm just like, you know, some of the things that they do, the way they handle their social media pages, the kind of things they bring to life, they are free to make things happen.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and for me, it culture doesn't look like one thing or the other.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the idea that people are free to build or create.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it may not look like what maybe Ghana looked like, and that's okay.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: And those kind of things, allowing that sometimes um if you're a leader, you can be feeling like, okay, this thing is out of my control.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: But the more out of your control it is, the more you will know that there's something you're doing right on the ground.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not out of your control in silence, it's out of your control with something happening, something coming to life, you know.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um if you go on every eco-social media page, like all the different countries, they all feel different, they all look different.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had to recently say because I noticed that whatever the countries are posting, they post in partnership with with the Ghana page, and like, no, we need to stop doing that so that everybody can just have their own yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that I feel like maybe maybe we are at 40-50 percent.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's quite a bit of work to be done, but we are on or you're on track for that.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so how do you because building a community is tough, yeah, because now you can't only care about you, you have to care about how everybody else is feeling.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: But how do you keep your mental and emotional state calm enough to manage this?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know there will be the bickering, the people not understanding each other.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: Looks like this person is breaking the community, and also finding a way to keep yourself in the community and still maintaining your private life.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: How do you manage your mental and emotional state for that?
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's if if I that's probably something that I would say I am not doing too well with.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know, I mean, in these places you're supposed to be.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, no, I like the candid trick, yeah, because um, like I said, I was telling you from the beginning, everything for me has been very, it's like there's barely that line.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've grown up with these people, like these are my people, right?
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they're also new generations who understand things differently.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then what I also noticed this year is the speed at which things happen.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we used to maybe all be in a room, and when one thing happens, we all talk about it and we are done, and then you know, then we got to this point where Adesso is living in Nigeria.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Kwami and Lord are living in South Africa, like you just bringing everything into one room now becomes difficult.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's so difficult.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, as you are there, like maybe you know, as I've left my phone, maybe I tell you the kind of things that could have happened.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many, it's almost like there's not enough hours to be able to come to the person, oh you know, at two o'clock this one happened, then at four this happened, and that navigation um is sort of what where I am now, trying to understand how all of that comes together.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: So last week Visor had a sit-down with me, and he's like, you know, we need to have this conversation about how you, you know, because when something happens, it can completely you know, and then everything that's happening has an effect on you, like actual effect, and we need to talk about how you this will, you know, you can't maybe high blood pressure in things, you know.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that answer.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that's that's that's sort of where it is.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I am now in a space like I'm you know, I've been thinking like I should start walking again, and I should this is where my mind is at, like you know, start walking again.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I said I want to go and learn to swim.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I want like I want to create a world because I have not been very intentional about that.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have been very this needs to be done.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: You run into this, then you run into that, and you run into this, and so by the time I've done you're balancing that with family, you know, and and just so it can be chaos.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it's I don't think that I have been able to balance it much.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, but I love that honesty.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of the time, you know, when we have the opportunity to talk to people, we like to do uh settings where everybody thinks things are just perfect, yeah.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: But people must understand that you can be at the top of your game, the prime of your career, and still be in chaos.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's and you know, like so sometimes in that's you know, like this idea of so people say that I'm scarce, right?
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I'm very cautious about this conversation is something I was actually looking forward to.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know how I like I wish I could you know because typically I'm very concerned or careful about appearing to be saying how it should be done.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because a lot of the times it makes sense only in hindsight.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and some of the things that some of the decisions you make, it didn't make sense in the time it did.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know how I was saying from the beginning, like some of these risks that we took, I sometimes think it's because we were so young, there wasn't so much at stake.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now that we have a son, sometimes I don't know, like so.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you would make that same decision again.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: So let me give you an example.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we you know, we we didn't start this with investment, yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we started this with 700 CDs.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um Bright and I would come from Kumasium, and then we would sit with a designer and he would design the magazine, and then we'll go and um we'll go and print the magazine, right?
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like we'll do a prototype and then we'll take it to the printers, and then they would give, and because we couldn't afford the fullness of maybe the thousand copies at once, we would maybe we can pay for 200 and then you know come back as we sell, we bring.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there was a time we couldn't afford to print the um prototype, the one that we would take to the printers.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I remember that right left his um phone with the person who's gonna print the prototype.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that when he said we can come back his phone, or it was his um iPod, something, I don't remember.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm thinking, now when you have a son, and would you have left your phone, for example?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: So there are certain risks that you take because there's not there's no so I'm also very careful because you know, I don't want to be standing on the thing and say, take any risk you want, yeah, you know, all this.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because even in my present state today, I may not take that same those risks.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: And someone may also have a story where they took a risk and it didn't work out for them and their life got messed up.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a it you this you you you are talking about it, it's so important.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: The stories are so different.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no one way to arrive at certain there are certain things I think of and I wish that maybe it will have been done differently.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: Then there are also certain things that happened that in the moment it happened, it was terrible.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I today I can say, Oh, God, thank God this happened.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you you see how the world is such a weird place.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: When you're building something, you know, there's some people I really it's like we maybe they left very early.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I wish they were here for this.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand?
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, so that that whole dynamic coming together puts me sometimes in a space where I'm like, do I want to go and tell anyone?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: I want to tell people how to win.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, one thing I believe, and I agree with Bright on this, I don't believe in good or bad.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: I know someone is throwing a stone at me right now through the screen, but I don't believe in good or bad.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think everything is perspective.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: Perspective.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because what is good for one person is bad for the other.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like Echo House is celebrating, yeah, we just landed a client, and another agency is crying.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because them losing that client means their business may close in six months.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_02: Do you get it?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing that is happening, and sometimes, you know, they said that um you can only be certain about a decision on hindsight.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the only way.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's the only way.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes something is happening to you in this moment, like how you're talking about the tidal rave fiasco, which in the moment felt like the end of a journey.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: I know people who are saying tidal wave should be cancelled, this should never happen, but through that, it has now evolved into something bigger and more efficient.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's like life isn't perfect, it's it's never, you know, and you you it's almost like every only the person in the situation can really tell.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and even in that situation, you you still don't know if you made the right choice.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, because could let's let's be honest, maybe you could have also gone and been a civil engineer and become the biggest civil engineer in Africa.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think of it a lot.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like could I we don't we don't know, I think of it a lot, so we can just enjoy the choices we made, yeah, the paths that we are on, yeah, and understand no one's journey is ever going to be the same.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, like those watching, they always need to remember that hearing Beryl's story doesn't mean take your 700 CDs and go and start a newsletter.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, like just do your thing, yeah.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: But once you keep going, you have a genuine heart, you are being authentic, yes, things will work out for you.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I was having a conversation when I was saying that something I've seen is those intangibles, right?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like who you are, yeah, how you treat people, um just basically just the energy you put into the world, it comes back to you.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it's not really so much about maybe whether you decided to do this, or maybe to be an entrepreneur, or to go into a nine-to-five or this or that.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: It really is that just this person that you are, the way that you are, means that no matter what you decide to do, you will do well with it.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I feel like no matter what, if if you are sweeping, sweep to the very best of yours.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you are, no matter what you are, like do that to them.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: You realize that sometimes there's somebody, no matter where you place them, you know, sometimes they have that situation.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody maybe they start out as this, you move them into something else, and and you realize that no matter where you place them, they are good with it.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my mom, you know, when we we grew up, I was born in Koferida, and then we moved to our car when I was in class five.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um, then she went to head a nursery school, then a dental community nursery school, and she turned that thing into a model school.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was a nursery school.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I was like, How in heaven's name?
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now she went on retirement, and just after that, you know, we lost my dad.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a really it was a very out of nowhere situation.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like five years ago.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then so you know, we came together right and I like, you know, let's do something.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we set up this, we've got this small space, and we set up something for her, like uh a school.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: In my mind, it's something we're gonna have to be managing, like for just so that she has something doing.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt like it's something we'll have to be funding for the longest time.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now I just want to send it into like a it's a thing, it's a school, it's a thing.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like now, the conversation is like, are we going to turn it into a proper school?
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I always said, like, no matter what you give her, she will make it into something.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you understand?
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, she has the ability.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, people, there are people who can do that.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, if you put them in a little hole, you come in the hole, it's shining, and you're thinking, but that was just a hole.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like those things matter more than anything else.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: Than what you're doing, the choices you made.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: Winning is an attitude, yeah.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's an attitude that you need to exhibit every single day.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, those close to me laugh at me that I take everything as a project.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like when I said I was learning how to cook, yeah, cooking became a project.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I said, I'm sitting here, aside the normal stew and jolov, I can make lasagna, I just play.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to play.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the funny thing with me is there are so many things I excel at, and there are so many things I don't know how to do at all.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like once I'm going there, yeah, I'm going there.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: If not, yeah, you don't find it there.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm horrible with languages.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can't learn anything.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: I can't learn any language.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, but um, I I really appreciate how you had this mindset and been able to carve this path throughout.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I think anyone watching this will understand the success of Echo.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: We always sit back and look at the giants and think maybe things just fell into place or they have something they just picked up from somewhere.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's your ability to innovate, yeah, your ability to keep changing things as you know the systems get tougher.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, tougher, yeah.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I know they're going to come at you because right now you have said I started Echo House with 700 CDs.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, so you know, so this is so you don't so this is what I think, right?
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I was I was very intentional about this.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we need money for a project.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_00: My mother will give us money for a project to pay her back.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, um, so I'm sure you will have realize I'm not one for taglines at all.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I'm also very um careful about but but do you think people need money to start businesses?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on the kind of business.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: So let me give you an example.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like with us, we need to convince somebody to give us a project.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't need money to convince the person.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but when I do get the project, I need money to fund it.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then that is where, and at the time the jobs we're getting were not so huge that my mom could give us money to do.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, then transitioning from that, the banks can do that.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: Only that I didn't go to the bank and say, come for it's you know, I'm not going for a loan to run my business, but you give me money to um what's it project?
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: To do a project, to do a project, which we already have the client has secured it, they'll be making payments on data.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're even able to get um what's it called there?
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: The they have a name for it, like you know, when you get the PO you can take it to you know, stuff like that.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: But there are some businesses that you need money to to do, you understand, to build.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I haven't fortunately for me, my business is not that way.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you know, even as you are expanding, sometimes I can say to the finance guy, I said somebody should just come and give us some money so that you know it's like what will you use it for?
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so funny because he's always like, you know, you need to be very careful before you take um money and stuff like that.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the luxury of the business I have gotten into.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's also business that's you you don't have the money to do, you know.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_00: For example, somebody's building houses and selling truly.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Technically, that one thing you don't need.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: You don't, yeah, you don't need your money to start it.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to convince somebody else, but very big money.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so we have to trust you.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: So that means you have to build your value to be able to do that.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I think one misconception that is going around a lot is people are not understanding that the biggest currency is your personality, yeah.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so everybody is looking for money to start something, but I can tell, look, I can tell anyone watching this when you start, you are going to fail for so long, yeah, that if you start with somebody's big money, yes, you are losing somebody's money.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: That no, and I because you there are so many things that maybe from the very beginning, you think, oh, if you do this and do that, if I buy this and I buy that, it doesn't just work.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't follow that way, yeah.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I I think if I say that um title was not necessarily like a revenue, I don't know how people will understand it.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure they'll think, oh, come on, you know, but you know the cost of events, right?
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: The cost of production, the cost of artists to get it.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like so that whole dynamic coming together, yeah, and what you will charge for a ticket.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't, it doesn't.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: I always say if the public knew that financially event organizing doesn't make sense, they they would look at event organizers differently.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, sometimes me when I'm charging an event organizer, I feel bad because I know how are you going to make this money back from the artist to the logistics to trust.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's it's it's almost like you have to have the formula because if somebody looks at us organizing title rave and also say, Okay, I'm going to do, I don't know.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you understand the it may not necessarily, but if you say, Okay, what do I stand for?
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and therefore what do I want to build?
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very different conversation.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe I am looking because sometimes there also things that agencies do, I'm like, oh, that's a cool thing.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't rush back to my team and say, Okay, because they did it, let's also do that.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's very you should never copy someone.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know you don't know the person's reason for doing what they are doing.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like the same way you mentioned that to you, tidal rave is a marketing tool.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's a huge marketing tool for us.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of a way to remind other companies of this is what we can do.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we can do on our own with our own money.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, imagine what we can do for you.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes end-of-year parties, for example, they say, give us what you're doing.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Tidal rave experience.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, do you get it?
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes they'll even choose the same venue.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get it?
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a it's a math that has its own formula.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, now like I'm saying, now we are moving it into a different conversation, but we have the reason why we do it, yeah, you know.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: So imagine somebody watching tidal rave, watching echo, they make business plan and say we are going to be the next echo house, and they go and take somebody's money, we're organizing the next tidal wave, and they organized it and they realize, yeah, yeah, yeah, no money to be made.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Then how does it all come to play, right?
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's it's like I was saying recently, there's so much more to be done that if you allow yourself, you there's so much more to be done.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like we haven't even scraped the surface of what is possible.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: The the in terms of even the marketing space, in terms of the creator space, you know, we can only it's like we can do our small, then there's so much more.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know what people just need to look at the this is my specialization and get into that.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you understand, because I don't think the opportunities are finished.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Never ever.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's more opportunity than and maybe I'm only saying this in hindsight, right?
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I feel like there's so much more.
• 1:13:56
  SPEAKER_02: I wish you could transfer hindsight.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_02: I wish there was a way that we could let the person walking towards us see the things we saw on the way.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess that's part of what we are doing now.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, sometimes when you you come when somebody says, Yeah, you you get to talk like that.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get it?
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I say you've been through it, so you have the luxury of experience, yes, you have the luxury of talking this way, yeah, you know.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I if I thought that maybe there's it's like you go, go, go, and then you rest.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I realize, uh no.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_02: They used to say that though.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: When I was when I started my business at 17, one of the misconceptions I had was that I was going to work very hard so that in my 30s and 40s, I'll just retire.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'll be 40 soon.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not no resting for me.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's actually even, you know, like recently when we set up in these places, what I realized happens is um like South Africa is two hours ahead.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So when I wake up in the morning, they have they are waiting for some feedback from you.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Then Nigeria will now come.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Then you it's like you know that kind of thing.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you your day is stretched in a way that is very so it's like I am now trying to navigate this entire thing.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is it really?
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you understand?
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what does it mean?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do I keep myself sane?
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as for the sanity, I don't think it's for it's for owning a business and sanity does not go together.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's like everything is happening regardless, yeah.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's a good thing, but it's also like a very scary thing.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_02: They say running a business is hard, being an employee is hard, everything is being hard.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Being rich is hard, being broke is hard.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Choose your heart, everything is hard, everything, but yeah, yeah, it's been it's been quite the journey, an exciting journey.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do something for me, right?
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to imagine that you could stretch your hand through the camera and drop one mindset that will shift everything for the person watching to get closer to success.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I think um it's probably going to be about possibility.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and when I say possibility, I just mean that there's something I realize almost like when you believe something so strongly, it's almost as if the universe shifts around to allow you to have it.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this morning I was watching something where they spoke about whatever you want, whatever you want God to do for you.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: He said, write it on a paper.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and then they talked about Psalm 150 and a second one, I don't remember, but the idea of write it on a paper and every morning read it and then read it the sound.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, because of everything that's happened, I I was saying in my head, if I do it, it will actually happen.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'm like, okay, this thing of building this business has affected your mindset, right?
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because um sometimes we say certain things and I feel like, for example, the idea of bringing an international act, right?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's been like I have never thought it's I don't know.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know people say, oh, but Echo is a big company, you know.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to tidal rave, I have not thought we'll get to the point where we will go and bring an international art.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we've done stuff where we will bring some international acts, we've done nothing training, but not for tidal rave.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I felt it's our baby that we are growing, yeah, you know.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I told the team this morning that I feel like this was a breakout year.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not even so much the idea of we've done it differently and it worked, and therefore, you know, that becomes the blueprint now moving forward.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So possibility, possibility, just this idea of sometimes we work in fear for so long that we stop dreaming.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like everything we think around is what if it if it may not work.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_00: What if I somebody asked me, what if all this um just went away went away or it was like I'm like, then can you imagine my CV?
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're laughing.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you imagine the CV that I will have if this all went away?
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I I love that positive why yesterday I saw something on Instagram that said you have to be so positive that when you fall down the stairs, instead of saying, Oh god, I fell, you see, I got so fast.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's almost delusional, right?
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't mean you don't have the days when you're like, oh god, because I have maybe 12 times a day, I have like, what is this?
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_00: But again, you to be able to look back at all of it and see that this has worked for as long as it has.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how about the challenges that it has had means that you're doing something right.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I sometimes wish I was at the beginning of the journey again.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_00: With this knowledge, maybe I'll look at things a bit differently.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, possibility.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_02: So everything is possible, everything is possible, and I think we get in that trap where we jump to all the negative things that are possible without looking at all the positive things that are also possible.
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so actually, usually by the time you're talking about the negative things, you it is your brain also sort of looking away from all the actual positive things.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_00: You understand?
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So you it's a hundred positive things.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_00: One negative thing sort of pulls everything away.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, somebody was saying to me, okay, this one thing has happened with this tide win.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_00: You've read maybe 10,000 good reviews.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you understand?
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've gotten calls from everywhere, it keeps you like excited.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, somebody asked someone that how do you deal with people thinking bad about you?
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I don't know that people are thinking bad about me.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know what they're thinking about me.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I just assume they're thinking good about me.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_02: If I walk into a room, I just assume everybody's thinking, oh, he's so good looking.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you get me?
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of oh, what's he wearing and stuff?
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because either way is possible.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, so you I think so.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yesterday I saw this video that talked about.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_00: They said, when somebody interviews you, for their the person's own sake, the person who's interviewing you, that they are hopeful that you do well so that you don't have to keep interviewing other people.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get it?
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like people want you to do well.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you are maybe giving a speech, they hope that you don't make an error or something like that.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there are naysayers here and there, but the general concept of it is that oh, I think the world will conspire to you know support.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So and we have benefited a lot from that.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like somebody said, Oh, this story, this is a great story of a Ghanaian agency that is coming into all these other places.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: We've met many Ghanaians in South Africa who are willing to support, yeah, you know, in ways that I never thought possible.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe, maybe there's this thing of just shifting your mind into allowing goodness in.
• 1:20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be careful, but just allow the goodness.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just believe.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, allow the goodness.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's still from verosity.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Believe.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know, I know, yeah.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you so much.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_02: You've been so insightful.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope as you are watching this, this conversation has taught you a lot and has brought you one step closer to becoming the mastermind that you are meant to be.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for watching this episode.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that you stayed all the way through to the end tells me that you're not only curious, but you have the discipline to see what you do all the way through to the end.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, let's build a community of thinkers who are ready to become the best version of themselves.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, subscribe to the channel and the mindset that you will develop and grow every day to become a true mastermind.