Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Snakedance (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart about his choice of Snakedance (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  Welcome back to I'm still with a blunt penknife the Doctor Who
• 0:05
  commentary podcast. I can't think of anything
• 0:08
  original to do so I'm so sorry. Wow, that's right.
• 0:12
  Perhaps you could ask me a question.
• 0:14
  It's a sigh. We haven't been introduced.
• 0:18
  Have we okay. You said that to a few blokes
• 0:25
  every episode, every episode of this one.
• 0:32
  Deserve this honestly are here to discuss the gripping climax
• 0:37
  to snake. Dance story to of season 20 of
• 0:41
  Doctor Who. Yes.
• 0:43
  And just because you did this to me.
• 0:46
  I think the last time we spoke perhaps you could tell everyone
• 0:50
  at home. What has occurred in this story
• 0:52
  to date? Well, Tegan under, Partial
• 1:00
  control of them of the mara has taken the Tardis to the planet
• 1:04
  of Medusa, which is where the mara originated.
• 1:08
  Meanwhile, the people of Medusa have forgotten their past and
• 1:13
  are now reduced the story of the mara to a myth and legend that
• 1:18
  is part of their, their civilization.
• 1:20
  But they've forgotten the new ones is, and why, and how the
• 1:24
  civilization was destroyed by the creation of the mara, which
• 1:28
  they did themselves with the Mind's Eye and great Crystal.
• 1:33
  So they have put on this pageant every year, which is about to
• 1:36
  happen in part, 4 of snake dance where they go through the
• 1:41
  rituals of destroying of getting rid of the mara.
• 1:44
  But only this time, the mara lawn has persuaded Amber, all
• 1:49
  the director of Things with some by showing him, some beautiful
• 1:56
  trinkets that they're going to use the the original great
• 1:59
  Crystal. And thus the mara could come
• 2:02
  back. Meanwhile Doctor Who Nyssa and
• 2:04
  chela have walked down a corridor and a now being held at
• 2:08
  sword points, the most gripping part of the whole story.
• 2:11
  That's that was beautifully done.
• 2:14
  That was what's the matter? I'm quite impressed.
• 2:17
  You are lovely voice to listen to someone should tell me right
• 2:20
  now, the Doctor Who and Annuals and things and put them online.
• 2:23
  They should or anyone would say you should play a series of
• 2:27
  spin-off, Doctor Who audios they should.
• 2:33
  Well, look, this has been a very sophisticated story that we have
• 2:39
  been watching hands. I have a feeling that we're
• 2:43
  going to Rouse to an epic climax here.
• 2:45
  I think that I can't see this going wrong.
• 2:49
  But then we've got so many apart three and they've all gone
• 2:52
  wrong. I mean, unfortunately there was
• 2:55
  an enormous pink snake at the end of Kinder, which rather
• 2:59
  derailed things a little bit. Yeah.
• 3:02
  So I wonder if the same thing is going to occur.
• 3:04
  Well I think we might be seeing the pink snake.
• 3:08
  Have you ever had anything evil and phallic head towards you
• 3:12
  sigh? Boosie just get the Brigadier
• 3:18
  out. It's
• 3:35
  terrifying. Is that?
• 3:37
  This is an incredibly phallic monster.
• 3:41
  It's the like the most phallic dog poop.
• 3:44
  No. It's not, it's not but there's
• 3:48
  something about the snake imagery.
• 3:50
  Is that going right back to the Bible and Genesis and the snake
• 3:54
  is always the Temptation about Doctor Who designers have been
• 3:58
  obsessed with John Cox. I'll tell you.
• 4:00
  Well, yeah. Well that that's very much the
• 4:02
  case to so. So sorry to be talking about
• 4:05
  John Cox, when we're watching this Christopher Bailey least,
• 4:08
  intelligent script. It's such a shame, I have.
• 4:12
  Did you hear the Finished story that was the unmade.
• 4:17
  Christopher Bailey story children of Seth as very good
• 4:22
  actually, very good. I've not heard that one.
• 4:24
  So I'd heard some of the Barbara click ones that were very
• 4:27
  interesting, the elite particularly was really good.
• 4:31
  It was as mature as you would expect it to be very well,
• 4:37
  characterized a great guest cast.
• 4:39
  Like they really are kind of know when big finishing know
• 4:43
  Iran's role winner because when you look at the Guest the cast
• 4:46
  list and so on Blackman in that one.
• 4:48
  Yeah she was fantastic when you see sort of, you know, Kate
• 4:54
  Winslet on the guest list then you know, you know that whereas
• 5:02
  cradle of the snake, which was the MARC Platt script.
• 5:06
  Yeah, Laura Story was no good. I did not like that at all.
• 5:11
  Now that it was funny because when we used to do as Joel So we
• 5:16
  do the pants Cara audios which were a series of fan audios and
• 5:21
  about a couple of years before the Cradle of the snake.
• 5:25
  We did a third Maura story where the doctor was possessed by the
• 5:28
  mara wow. Yeah, exactly.
• 5:32
  That's a bold thing to pull off. You know, it was and we did who
• 5:36
  played the doctor and that was pulled monk, my friend Paul who
• 5:40
  played the doctor in that one, with his companion, AIDs?
• 5:43
  That was great. That was really fun.
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  I scripted that one for my friend and helped him fill out
• 5:49
  the script. That was great fun to do.
• 5:51
  What was it called? Come on, let's do a bit of Mark.
• 5:53
  The hand of peace and of Peace, everybody.
• 5:56
  Please audios, go find out mmm-hmm.
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  But the MARC Platt one, it's always it was a bit comical and
• 6:06
  a and a bit over played as well. It didn't quite come to as
• 6:12
  should have been brilliant. Because the idea of the doctor
• 6:15
  being possessed by the mara, it's a really great idea.
• 6:20
  But as always with big finish, didn't quite go where it should
• 6:24
  have done and it was just an idea and they didn't play with
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  it and didn't become tight. Sometimes they think of this Be
• 6:32
  a great idea. But I don't know what to do with
• 6:35
  it. Yeah I mean sometimes I get it
• 6:36
  really right. Our slack off all a big finish,
• 6:39
  I would have got a big finish podcast so you don't like it.
• 6:41
  Huh. But like William much like talk
• 6:45
  to itself like the classic series and really very right and
• 6:48
  they could get it very wrong. Okay, what's occurring here?
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  I'm just about to reveal that, he's going to use the great
• 7:02
  crystal in, in the ceremony and still still the doctor is not
• 7:07
  believe, but normally know this point in most Adventures robots
• 7:11
  are deaf. Those trout and stories, you
• 7:13
  know, where he's on this one over.
• 7:15
  Yeah, I don't think he ever does, does he?
• 7:18
  No not even at the end when he comes into the ceremony, no one
• 7:25
  is listening to Him and we don't even have that moment afterwards
• 7:29
  where everyone's, like, you know, old chunk you Doctor you
• 7:32
  are. Yeah, none of that at all.
• 7:35
  Black ink is are so fucking arrogant.
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  They wouldn't even, they wouldn't can see from the fact
• 7:40
  that he was right. You know, and the only person
• 7:43
  who does believe them is chaillot, who is with them.
• 7:46
  Now, for the rest of the story, man, there's a couple of scenes
• 7:49
  in this episode with chela. The doctor Anisa I absolutely
• 7:53
  adore. They're just little character
• 7:55
  beers. Where they give each other a
• 7:57
  look, some things like that. It could have been a very
• 8:01
  interesting Tardis team, the three of them and I could have
• 8:05
  seen in a relationship between Taylor and Nissan Versa.
• 8:09
  Yeah. There's a big little bit,
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  they're called primeval. Where in hell, are plays a
• 8:16
  character on Truckin? Yeah.
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  A bit like Taylor quite gentle and softly spoken at that, and
• 8:22
  they have like an almost romance, as I can.
• 8:24
  Kind of see that working. All, this is great.
• 8:30
  Let me look at your arm bar. For the last time, what she's
• 8:35
  got on her head? She can collect O'Neill can
• 8:41
  carry that off beautifully. She didn't work.
• 8:45
  If you were an affair fucking cones as well.
• 8:49
  This is great where he says. Sorry doctor is just a surprise
• 8:54
  catches you and then you have to pay you.
• 8:56
  I was he froze. What happened?
• 8:59
  It feels again, it just feels like a little touch in the court
• 9:02
  of the carnival. Yeah.
• 9:05
  Yeah. And I love the fact, you get to
• 9:07
  see them like taking the snake through the through the
• 9:10
  corridors and that towards the cave mouth.
• 9:13
  Yes. Because and that it's the great
• 9:16
  big pink snake from kinder but that is a beautiful touch and
• 9:23
  the kids are home going. No, you know, don't do that.
• 9:29
  It's fabulous. Oh, well, we get a little little
• 9:32
  diversion now off into the country to see.
• 9:34
  Don't know yet. You don't see dojin, who has
• 9:37
  been. Such an enigmatic bigger for all
• 9:40
  of us because you just see those cutaways of him and there's no
• 9:43
  dialogue and we had music and the and the glow of the Crystal
• 9:48
  and that's it. And you have no idea.
• 9:51
  Other than in the end credits that he's dojin, you know,
• 9:54
  what's fantastic is, is that you've had tanhe talk about him
• 9:57
  and how she liked it and work. It was, you've had a all talk
• 10:01
  about him. Those confetti quack.
• 10:03
  Yeah. So you get this massive sets of
• 10:05
  his character. Despite the fact he doesn't
• 10:07
  actually utter my what I love the music here with other
• 10:12
  Janice. Yeah, oh yeah.
• 10:14
  Good old Pizza how. Yeah, sort of adopted this and
• 10:17
  make it Again it's it has a culture.
• 10:22
  Remember I said that I thought that Brian Willis character was
• 10:25
  custom made for me. Yeah, I've changed my mind.
• 10:28
  It's the guy we are now speaking now.
• 10:31
  Yes, he's armed. He's back for.
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  He was in The Invisible enemy. He's one of those possessed
• 10:36
  people. That's the start of.
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  Yeah. You know.
• 10:39
  Marv raw thinks that's the worst acted seen in all of Doctor Who
• 10:42
  where he goes come in and join the party.
• 10:47
  Welcome to tighten and you're welcome to it.
• 10:51
  Is that bad? Oh, I like this way.
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  He puts on the costume and then any tension between them goes
• 11:00
  away and she just goes. Yep.
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  You're forgiven aren't you? Always?
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  You are. Yes.
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  So you know, she is standing with her back to what's going on
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  and paying no attention to this. I just saw.
• 11:13
  You said? Yeah.
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  Yeah because she's a spoil as he.
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  Is it homes away? She's not a grown-up.
• 11:20
  She's yeah. I need just used to get in their
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  own way but she stumbles across a nice are and she's like, well
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  I just don't know what to do. I'm not accustomed to dealing
• 11:32
  with these sort of situations because she is, mm, that's not
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  what she does. Nobody would ever have the nerve
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  to rummage through my drawers, you know, it's all right.
• 11:45
  Here we are first scene shop for season 20.
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  I was it. Yeah.
• 11:51
  It's so weird, isn't it? The film cameras had a depth to
• 11:56
  everything. Yeah.
• 11:57
  Hmm. Peter Davison there, looks
• 12:00
  amazing, his hairs, a bit, all over the place in the studio.
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  But here these aren't. There was some brilliant
• 12:07
  photographs taken from this site and they would make it onto the
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  book covers in the 90s where there'd be painted by Alistair
• 12:15
  Pearson, so forgot Opera and things like that and yeah,
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  really good. Oh my God.
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  Yeah, okay. Well, okay, even in context is,
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  yeah, it's beautiful. Let me look at you beautiful red
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  gloves. I feel like this look there's a
• 12:55
  period drama to be set in the Palace of the Federated after.
• 13:01
  Yeah absolutely. And I hope we never see the
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  Federation. It he's one of those.
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  Fantastic off-screen Doctor Who. Yes exactly.
• 13:10
  Yes painted brilliantly. Uh-huh.
• 13:13
  You think of any other examples? I'm sure there are loads but my
• 13:18
  brain has gone blank, right? There's two, I can always think
• 13:21
  of and that is what's her name? President zarb.
• 13:26
  Oh yes. It kind of loved ones does.
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  Yes. Who you know?
• 13:29
  And again you've got a real image of him from the way he's
• 13:31
  spoken about. And the other one I was just
• 13:35
  thinking of another one as well. Oh the graphing.
• 13:39
  The case always going on about his brother as a lie.
• 13:41
  Yes. Taking over the live.
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  Believe the business. Yes.
• 13:47
  The video. Oh, and a lovely real snake.
• 13:55
  But I think that does take some Talent, you know, to create an
• 13:59
  off-screen character. So vividly.
• 14:01
  Yes. You.
• 14:04
  I think that was the only time Davidson ever handled a live
• 14:06
  snake. He's huh?
• 14:08
  I remember having to do that, we had one of those live animal
• 14:12
  shows claim to the library where they've got creepy crawlies.
• 14:15
  And I took my nephew or he came along and I'm so they bring out
• 14:21
  the big python from the box and said, right?
• 14:25
  Who wants to hold this and Luke pipes up at age 5.
• 14:29
  So my uncle Simon would like to hold the snake at.
• 14:33
  So I had to hold the snake. Could be really Brave.
• 14:37
  It's so weird because I am I have a genuine phobia of snakes
• 14:41
  spiders, which everyone else in the spine or there's a local Zoo
• 14:46
  here where you can hold a tarantula.
• 14:48
  I'm happy. He's got big furry, legs scars
• 14:50
  all over your hand. Happiness is brilliant.
• 14:54
  This is really good and that hearing the doctors doubts and
• 14:59
  he's done this and he's brought this on on Tegan.
• 15:03
  He's got to savor and he can't focus.
• 15:05
  And just knowing the doctor can't focus because got all
• 15:08
  these thoughts going around his head again though.
• 15:10
  That's Haley. Things done, isn't it?
• 15:12
  Yeah but else you've got and he just needs to find the Still
• 15:17
  Point. What is the Still Point?
• 15:21
  It's a point. I think, like now, Where you
• 15:25
  just are calm and so you can defeat whatever needs to be
• 15:29
  done. Everyone else will be panicking
• 15:30
  around you but you can be calm and concentrate and do what you
• 15:34
  need to do. Is it like going into like a
• 15:36
  meditative State? Yeah, you are entirely in the
• 15:40
  now you're not going without see that bit at the end where he's
• 15:43
  got the Crystal and he's just focusing on the crystal wall
• 15:46
  everything. Everyone is screaming around him
• 15:49
  and he still and calm and he's focused and he's not being
• 15:53
  possessed like everyone else because he's on a different
• 15:56
  plane. That's why we're talking about
• 15:58
  this kind of stuff in the Doctor Who on the tree.
• 16:01
  It's just show that this is a this is like playing.
• 16:03
  I've got lots of weighty ideas. Yeah and I think the guy who
• 16:08
  plays dojin looks looks the part brilliantly.
• 16:11
  He's so disheveled. I think is the word but if you
• 16:16
  ever have you ever tried meditation No, I never have.
• 16:21
  I did Transcendental Meditation while it's right where?
• 16:24
  And that's where you repeat a phrase in your head.
• 16:27
  I've ever again for like 30 minutes.
• 16:30
  I'll tell you what, right? I didn't one time and I did it
• 16:34
  and about 10 minutes in, I think you numb your brain into not
• 16:38
  thinking because you are just constantly repeating the same
• 16:41
  phrase right after half an hour. I woke up and I had all tears
• 16:45
  running down my face. I've no idea where I went, what
• 16:48
  I was thinking about. So having these and emotion of
• 16:52
  some kind very strange. Anyway.
• 17:00
  I'll here we go. The great Sleek has reached the
• 17:02
  Kayla and don't you even say I'm being rude are.
• 17:07
  Well, that's exactly what has happened.
• 17:10
  I mean, it is Pink as well. Yeah, I the symbolism.
• 17:15
  Yeah, no, to be fair, if you see a pink snake coming towards you
• 17:20
  covered in yellow spots, I would advise you, I would run.
• 17:29
  Here as well. Yeah, it's kind of poetic isn't
• 17:33
  it goes? Yeah, I turned my hand and the
• 17:35
  branch falls to the floor. Yes, I give you the world in a
• 17:40
  handful of dust, which is a quote, from t.s., Eliot from the
• 17:43
  Wasteland. I see a beautiful piece of what.
• 17:47
  I'm it's magnificent I still can't get my head around it but
• 17:50
  it's it's a beautiful piece of poetry.
• 17:53
  It's huge and epic. And something I studied at
• 17:56
  University and need to go back and read again because I It's
• 18:00
  something you get more from as you're older.
• 18:05
  That's a that's another little liar than isn't it.
• 18:07
  What's the poet? That's quoted in Lazarus
• 18:09
  experiment. He said earlier again.
• 18:14
  It might be, it might be, I can't remember.
• 18:16
  Now, it is not, I do not. I do like, you know what, when
• 18:21
  literary allusions are made within a story, yet don't go.
• 18:29
  I offer you fear and I think that absolutely it yet, it's a
• 18:35
  handful of glitter actually, on my side, I do not fear anything.
• 18:40
  Sigh, well, I'm with you. I fear that shot any costs to
• 18:49
  the clouds? Between the three of them and I
• 19:22
  loved the scene. We had a Rome weather just lying
• 19:25
  around waiting for dojin to come.
• 19:27
  And they see. So at ease with each other guys,
• 19:31
  is well, the The Mask said, there's like Devil masks at
• 19:34
  someone's. Yeah, the big gold eyes and the
• 19:36
  gold masks as well. This is a very handsome story,
• 19:40
  you know? Yes.
• 19:42
  And we still haven't seen Tegan. Few hasn't been on screen since
• 19:47
  the middle of part 3 when she wasn't quite as here at my tail.
• 19:50
  Yeah, but she is actually going to make a huge entrance ants.
• 19:55
  Yeah, and I love it the way the the crystal goes in and then the
• 19:59
  wall lights up a bit. Yeah.
• 20:00
  That's really. Really good.
• 20:02
  And then the door opens and there she is.
• 20:05
  Yeah, I mean, if I was ever gonna have an entrance and a
• 20:07
  doctor who, I mean, I think that would that's pretty good, isn't
• 20:09
  it? Yeah, it's a bit like Cilla
• 20:11
  Black coming out and surprise, surprise surprise.
• 20:25
  You know, even with like, I'm going to worry about the
• 20:28
  Aesthetics quite a bit, but only because I'm so impressed with
• 20:31
  the caves, like, all these roots everywhere all over there.
• 20:34
  Everything is overgrown and old and time.
• 20:38
  Again, there are some thought into this, isn't that.
• 20:42
  And there are shadows, they've turned the lights down a bit.
• 20:46
  Although, I mean, we won't stop banging on about that because
• 20:49
  what I mean we will say there are times in the 80s where they
• 20:51
  should have turn the lights down.
• 20:52
  Yeah, absolutely. There are many times.
• 20:58
  If me the great Crystal PSI at lost, he becomes because this is
• 21:06
  a bit and come on, come on, hurry up.
• 21:10
  You left that go on. Getting this is a bit rubbish,
• 21:13
  Taylor doesn't and then he goes floor.
• 21:20
  This is greater, but this is a proper like this isn't a big
• 21:23
  action climax. Do you normally get it done, but
• 21:25
  it's a big dinner more. It's a big ending still.
• 21:31
  It feels very like a big Theater ending, doesn't it?
• 21:34
  You know, every or yeah, everyone's together and you're
• 21:39
  getting the big big end down. And it's like, I like the battle
• 21:44
  of wills. Yes and I because that that's
• 21:48
  it. Probably precisely what's
• 21:49
  happening. It's a psychological ending like
• 21:51
  Kinder where it was facing the mirrors, you know?
• 21:54
  Yeah, I love the way it. Just a little attention to
• 21:57
  detail of the two people possessed by the mara are very
• 22:02
  red-faced and hot. Yeah, and it's not something
• 22:06
  you. You notice straight away.
• 22:09
  I have to say the realization of the snake in this.
• 22:13
  It's still not the best thing ever.
• 22:16
  Damn good for a long time. Yeah.
• 22:21
  Well yeah, because if you look the eyes move.
• 22:23
  Yeah. And the mouth opens and yeah
• 22:27
  unfortunately that is clearly a rubber snake.
• 22:29
  She's just from all their wishes unfortunate But never mind.
• 22:37
  Look at that. That's a really good use of
• 22:39
  serious out. Yeah.
• 22:43
  That cover of the snake, dance novelization.
• 22:47
  Yeah. With the planet in its mouth.
• 22:49
  Yeah. Herb.
• 22:51
  Who did? Who true that Andrew Skillets.
• 22:53
  I did that one. It only knows targets back then.
• 22:56
  Yeah, see ya here. He is railing against everyone.
• 22:59
  And it's not working because he's forgotten, he's got to be,
• 23:02
  he's got to be still. He can't do it by his normal
• 23:07
  shouting at everyone. And it's been like Warriors, gay
• 23:12
  isn't it? Do nothing.
• 23:14
  Exactly. And here we goes.
• 23:17
  Or I like the overlay of Tegan and the snake.
• 23:19
  Yeah and that's Bree and the screams and yeah.
• 23:23
  Yeah, that's that. It's very effective.
• 23:27
  I think the creepiest moment is where the mara Tegan pretends to
• 23:33
  be normal Tegan. Yeah.
• 23:35
  But the voice is just that little bit higher than normal,
• 23:40
  but she's trying to get her own way.
• 23:43
  Superb. This is Janet fielding's tour de
• 23:46
  force here. This is No, that's dry the
• 23:52
  creek. No protect the Crystal.
• 23:54
  And just had just that thing of just taking her voice down a
• 23:59
  couple of registers. Is.
• 24:02
  Yeah, is wonderful. Yes.
• 24:06
  Only Doctor Who stories end on a big bang which is so nice to
• 24:10
  have something a little bit more thoughtful.
• 24:12
  It's clever. Actually yeah that snake head
• 24:16
  with her is. All right.
• 24:18
  Yeah. And I was thinking a second ago,
• 24:20
  you know, when they're all pretending to be afraid and all
• 24:23
  of that you can almost imagine when they said car just fell
• 24:27
  about her. Yeah but that's Doctor.
• 24:30
  Who isn't it? Like making something.
• 24:33
  Absurd terrifying. Yeah, here we go again.
• 24:47
  Yeah. Hello manipulative and wonderful
• 24:50
  and he will not submit was, it was sad, is I think in lysine
• 24:54
  than aside, she doesn't really get a gray acting role again.
• 25:01
  Oh, she gets lots of good stuff in enlightenment.
• 25:05
  Yeah, very mature Tegan. Very I like, you know, she gets
• 25:11
  in, she gets to do a stroppy piece, a lot of stone, but she
• 25:14
  doesn't really get anything to get her teeth in.
• 25:16
  Know, I was such a shame which is why my power of the doctor
• 25:21
  was really good for me because she did Oh, here we go.
• 25:27
  Oh yeah, yeah, they're obsessed with guns in the 80s and so
• 25:30
  always when we have yeah, a snake.
• 25:39
  And it's weird because we don't really because we don't get a
• 25:42
  coder. And I think there was don't get
• 25:45
  in till Motrin Undead. Do we?
• 25:47
  When I think there was a scripted scene, yeah, they
• 25:50
  filmed it but I think the episode was over running so they
• 25:53
  put it into the start of Motoring Undead.
• 25:57
  Yeah, he explains that he had to be destroyed between its modes
• 26:00
  of being and but it means that we don't really see out all of
• 26:06
  these fantastic guest characters, though, we've done
• 26:08
  it just sort of. I think it's quite nice, it just
• 26:12
  stops and there is the possibility that they were
• 26:15
  around for a bit longer and a bit.
• 26:18
  And what are they learned? These rich people.
• 26:20
  Nothing that makes. And we've got a very, very rare
• 26:25
  moment of tenderness between the doctor and His companion in.
• 26:29
  Yeah. In the early 80s where he puts
• 26:31
  his arm around her, he's not allowed to do that.
• 26:34
  And it is a there's a similar language.
• 26:36
  Remember in modern Undead we talked about that where she says
• 26:39
  you were going to risk your life just keeping us.
• 26:41
  Thank you so much and that he's done the same for her here.
• 26:46
  And see don't sleep Companions and she's crying much better
• 26:51
  than she did at the end of her shock as well.
• 26:53
  So it is a real real feeling that she has been through the
• 26:57
  wringer. And she is, she is her and
• 26:59
  damaged. And just for a companion to have
• 27:02
  that kind of focus. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:06
  Very especially unusual in the 60s where no onions that very
• 27:14
  often had decent characters storylines.
• 27:19
  But we're out. We already the in the the decade
• 27:22
  of action who now always say exactly.
• 27:25
  And so, you don't ya to have something that's fought for and
• 27:28
  character-driven as this is it's rare.
• 27:31
  And it's a bit of a gem to say, well, you know, what comes next?
• 27:37
  Yes, I have to say. Would you like to go first or
• 27:43
  shall I? I'm, I'm happy to go first
• 27:45
  because I can take the really Really the obvious one and say
• 27:51
  Janet Fielding new New York. What else was it gonna be?
• 27:55
  I-it's, just a stunning performance in this story and
• 28:00
  she gets to be scared. She gets to be young.
• 28:04
  She gets to be hypnotized Tegan and she gets to be Mara Tegan
• 28:08
  and she excels at all of them. She is really, really good.
• 28:13
  And I think it's one of the best companion performances in the
• 28:17
  show. So Of own, an individual story.
• 28:19
  I think she is right up there and she's proved her worth
• 28:22
  there. I'm going to say the planet
• 28:26
  Medusa is one of the best realized and written planets in
• 28:33
  Doctor Who I absolutely believe it exists.
• 28:37
  The people in it, the sort of The Faded mythology the Customs,
• 28:44
  they just a bustling Marketplace, you know, all of it
• 28:48
  and all the different characters that we me.
• 28:50
  I believe that they've got a purpose with In this Society, I
• 28:55
  can't say that about every Doctor Who planted that we visit
• 28:57
  car fail. So I always say car feel but I
• 29:01
  see. Jeong Capo is just such the
• 29:05
  obvious example of a planet that you just don't believe in.
• 29:09
  Well, let me take another one. Then I don't entirely believe in
• 29:12
  because car felt such an easy target.
• 29:15
  Yeah, no coughing for all like Meg loss.
• 29:20
  You know what's that? Yeah, exactly.
• 29:22
  Yeah. It's Yeah, it's generically
• 29:24
  written. And yeah, it's there for the
• 29:27
  purpose of the story. But why would you have a
• 29:30
  separate faction of religious nuts versus scientists?
• 29:34
  So it's not, yeah, I'm going to say something controversial now
• 29:37
  as well. Okay, I so I, yeah, I do like
• 29:42
  the story. I just don't believe the planet
• 29:45
  and that is Terror Alpha in that happiness Patrol.
• 29:49
  I can understand that. Anyway, before phrase magical.
• 29:55
  Second everyone, my second one is going to be Peter, how, who,
• 29:59
  I think, gives this story tremendous atmosphere in a way
• 30:03
  that only the radio phonic Workshop.
• 30:06
  I think could do, I've can't imagine this story being
• 30:10
  schooled by Murray gold or doubly Simpson or Paddy
• 30:15
  Kingsland. All the people who like Melody
• 30:18
  this is s a canola. This is Peter.
• 30:21
  How Ow, this is mood and mood music, rather than music music.
• 30:28
  There's not many Tunes other than the which is why the band
• 30:31
  stands out, and he creates the culture of this planet through
• 30:36
  the music of the carnival. And it's in all the marketplace
• 30:39
  scenes in different bits, but there are very few moments of
• 30:45
  conventional scoring on top of it.
• 30:47
  Whereas it's lots of pads and lots of waves.
• 30:52
  Music. And I think that is unsettling
• 30:56
  and in a way that 80s up to who isn't very often, and I think
• 31:00
  he's, he's, he's just brilliant. I love pizza house.
• 31:03
  Oh, yeah. What and to take that to, to
• 31:07
  extend that, I'll say that, I think the scares in this story,
• 31:15
  in an era that is not very subtle about it scares.
• 31:19
  Yes, this is scary because of the performance.
• 31:22
  Dances. And because of the ideas rather
• 31:24
  than yeah, the monsters, you know.
• 31:26
  Oh absolutely. Yeah.
• 31:27
  It's not about people's faces turning to gunge and and people
• 31:32
  turning into puddles of Goo he says hey he knows it's like a
• 31:35
  logical scares progressed to a child and tell ya, losing your
• 31:41
  identity, you know, and enjoying it and enjoying unleashing you
• 31:46
  know that nasty aside of yourself like it's it is
• 31:50
  properly scary but it It is down to the cost more than anybody
• 31:56
  and they perform up admirably. Absolutely, I can't.
• 32:00
  Yeah, I thought that because this was the scariest Doctor Who
• 32:04
  story of my childhood. As I said, this was the one that
• 32:07
  lingered with me and gave me nightmares and did upset me and
• 32:13
  I love it. It's because there weren't next
• 32:17
  essential Frets in cops who like that at this point and so it
• 32:21
  Really listen Kinder, really, really stood out in an era.
• 32:25
  That's obsessed with monsters and action.
• 32:28
  And people being gunned down. This is so different.
• 32:31
  And my third thing I think is I'm going to say, Well, done to
• 32:37
  Eric's a word for working with Christopher Bailey to get a
• 32:41
  workable script that is working both to doctor whose stripes and
• 32:48
  to Christopher Bailey strengths and like, That created the world
• 32:53
  but creating wonderful memorable, characters and
• 32:56
  interesting scenes and it's beautifully plotted.
• 33:01
  It's really, really well done. It's a slow burn and it's got
• 33:05
  really good use of the doctor and its really good use of Nyssa
• 33:08
  as well. And it all just works
• 33:11
  unexpectedly. Whereas Kinder is a slightly
• 33:14
  flawed production but this this everyone feels more confident, I
• 33:21
  think. A staffer Bailey is more
• 33:23
  confident in what he's doing. And yeah, it's really good.
• 33:26
  I look at the characters he creates here, they're all fit.
• 33:30
  As you said Medusa and the characters all feel like real
• 33:34
  people and places and that's thanks to Christopher.
• 33:37
  Bailey upping his game to create a world.
• 33:41
  Even then sigh even then well my last is going to be I think this
• 33:49
  is one of the it's hard because there are Great guess calls in a
• 33:53
  Tito and I think J. And T was bar savvier than
• 33:58
  anyone gave him credit when it can, I'll sting, and he did some
• 34:01
  pretty sort of dangerous casting as well.
• 34:04
  But actually, this is, this is like a reliable car.
• 34:08
  This is not, there's no one dangerous in this one.
• 34:11
  This is, these are all people who you feel should be in Doctor
• 34:14
  Who and John Carson and had a phenomenal career by this point,
• 34:18
  and somehow Doctor Who have missed him, he'd been in The
• 34:21
  Avengers. Has most years.
• 34:23
  He'd been in all the shows, he was a really great solid actor
• 34:29
  and he's got The Perfect part. He plays plays a role to
• 34:33
  absolute perfection. Martin clunes is clearly on his
• 34:37
  road to stardom and steal the show from everybody.
• 34:40
  Jonathan Morris comes in and develops an immediate rapport
• 34:44
  with Davison and set something Colette, O'Neill was just super
• 34:50
  probably that's probably the performance of As for me, I
• 34:52
  think she's great. And yeah she belongs in some
• 34:55
  Grand period drama solutely and and again with diamonds.
• 35:00
  So yeah. And even Brian Miller as
• 35:03
  ducktail is spot-on as the show, highly role but he gives it a
• 35:10
  dignity and wonder and weariness and cynicism.
• 35:15
  Yeah, so I mean like I think the conclusion that we're drawing is
• 35:20
  this is very good indeed. Yeah, and I don't like it even
• 35:24
  more than I usually don't talk about it.
• 35:28
  This is one. I've always rated very, very
• 35:31
  highly and what I was really excited to see you again in the
• 35:33
  90s bizarrely. For some reason, our when I got
• 35:41
  my met, the guy who got Doctor Who and beat the max tapes that
• 35:45
  I could borrow and sort of copy onto VHS, he had most of season
• 35:51
  20. But not much of 20 and 19 that
• 35:55
  bizarrely. He had the last five minutes of
• 35:58
  episode 4, on the end of a tape that I discovered I was just
• 36:02
  watching the speaking. This is superb.
• 36:04
  What really want to see the rest of this during the ceremony and
• 36:08
  that bit? Oh wow, this is so good.
• 36:12
  And, you know, I think it's like we said before, it is a story
• 36:16
  that works for children because it is scary and it works for
• 36:20
  adults because it's mature. Or as well yes and you can get
• 36:24
  you can ReDiscover this at any point in your doctor who found
• 36:27
  them and find something different in it.
• 36:29
  I think and it is talky and yeah, I'm slow but I don't think
• 36:35
  he's ever boring. Never know.
• 36:37
  Even as we say, even the POP3 Exposition is done really
• 36:41
  cleverly and really well or sad. I'm not sure what else we can
• 36:46
  say about the story. I really think we've done a
• 36:48
  marvelous job there I think so. I think that's yeah, that's been
• 36:51
  worth the wait. It's been a long time coming
• 36:53
  this one and I'm really pleased because I feel like this is a
• 36:56
  little neglected snake dance. Yeah, I think it needs a bit
• 36:59
  more love. So you better make that he's
• 37:01
  taking this in, people allow, whatever saw the Daleks and
• 37:06
  curse of fenric and the five doctor shop.
• 37:08
  Yeah, and this one is sort of a forgotten gem, but because it's
• 37:14
  so different to all of those. I think that's why it's special
• 37:17
  if Doctor Who was like this every week.
• 37:19
  Oh, yeah, we wouldn't celebrate it.
• 37:21
  But in this era it's such an oddity.
• 37:25
  And next week, you've got time. Travels Shenanigans and the
• 37:30
  Brigadier something larger. Yeah, exactly.
• 37:32
  And so this show is just all over the place in this era but
• 37:36
  thank God. Wonderful.
• 37:39
  What where we going next? Oh, I don't know.
• 37:44
  I've no idea. I know we've Fraser we're still
• 37:47
  going to take a trip to the moon some time, but it's not ever
• 37:51
  going to Is that going to happen?
• 37:53
  I don't think he likes that one. So I think he's stalling on
• 37:56
  that. Been promised a six-episode
• 37:58
  jaunt with Fraser and a ton of white stuff coming at me for a
• 38:03
  long time now. Oh, my word.
• 38:05
  That's all. I don't know.
• 38:08
  I don't know what we're going to do next.
• 38:11
  I thought I'd love to do something unexpected.
• 38:19
  Yes. And but I think what I'd like to
• 38:21
  You to do what's that? I'd like you to do a competed
• 38:25
  Capaldi episode? No, I've done the pilot.
• 38:29
  You have, should we take a trip under the lake?
• 38:35
  Oh yes, yeah. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I
• 38:39
  think my least favorite season of Doctor Who you do have a
• 38:43
  story. I don't you I really liked that
• 38:45
  story. So whereas I think the firstly
• 38:47
  we're house again, you see? So first episode I think is
• 38:50
  really good enough. Second episode.
• 38:52
  That's huge problems but how that would be interesting.
• 38:56
  Okay. And I know there was something
• 38:59
  else that we did say we were going to do one and it's a bit
• 39:04
  of a biggie corn and we were going to do the Day of the
• 39:10
  Doctor. Oh that she mean you like that
• 39:15
  one right I really love that one you know I really love that one
• 39:19
  as well but now I've seen power of the doctor I like it.
• 39:22
  Yeah I think it would be very interesting to go back now
• 39:27
  because I see other conclusion that I drew watching.
• 39:30
  The two is I prefer plastic who being celebrated the new boo.
• 39:36
  Me too. Well that, well, let's War.
• 39:40
  Let's pencil. Those both in.
• 39:42
  They will get Fraser to go to the Moon with us by the end of
• 39:47
  all. The hands to recordings will go
• 39:49
  from your stories taking three minutes to talk about to 10
• 39:52
  minutes so I don't you are totally adore doing this with
• 39:58
  you. That was wonderful.
• 40:01
  Yeah I hope everyone has enjoyed that as much as we did.
• 40:05
  I'll see you next time. Until next time, Joe.
• 40:09
  Bosch. I love that.