Latest / Dark Psychology: The Control Game / When Your Work Vanishes: The Slow Theft of a Man's Mind
Transcript
- 0:03Speaker 1: At seven forty four in the morning on the ninth
- 0:06Speaker 1: of December twenty nineteen, a meter reader named Janet Schmidt
- 0:10Speaker 1: walked toward Unit four of the Pinewood Garden apartments and stopped.
- 0:15Speaker 1: The front door was standing open in the cold. Holding
- 0:18Speaker 1: it open was a digital scale, its display facing up
- 0:22Speaker 1: reading exactly zero point zero. There was fresh snow across
- 0:27Speaker 1: the entire parking lot. Not a single footprint led to
- 0:31Speaker 1: that door. The scale had no snow on it.
- 0:34Speaker 2: Either.
- 0:35Speaker 1: Something had placed that object there without walking through the
- 0:38Speaker 1: snow to do it, and the woman who lived in
- 0:41Speaker 1: that apartment had already been gone for almost thirty minutes.
- 0:45Speaker 1: Her name was Julie Bell. She was twenty two years old.
- 0:49Speaker 1: She had left that morning with one bag. This is
- 0:52Speaker 1: the story of how a person's reality gets taken apart,
- 0:56Speaker 1: piece by piece, so carefully that she doesn't notice it
- 0:59Speaker 1: happening until the day she walks out her own front
- 1:01Speaker 1: door and doesn't go back. Two things will stay with
- 1:04Speaker 1: you long.
- 1:05Speaker 2: After this case is over.
- 1:07Speaker 1: The first is how ordinary every individual step looked from
- 1:10Speaker 1: the outside. The second is the scale.
- 1:13Speaker 2: Before this is done, you.
- 1:14Speaker 1: Will understand exactly how it got there without leaving a trace.
- 1:18Speaker 1: And why the number it was showing matters more than
- 1:22Speaker 1: the physics of how it arrived. Julie Bell had grown
- 1:26Speaker 1: up in Calloway, the kind of town where everyone's parents
- 1:29Speaker 1: knew each other's jobs. Her father, Dennis, delivered mail on
- 1:33Speaker 1: the same routes for nineteen years. Her mother, Patrice, ran
- 1:37Speaker 1: the cafeteria at the elementary school where Julie had once
- 1:40Speaker 1: been a student. Her older sister, Donna, had stayed close
- 1:43Speaker 1: to home. Julie had two She was twenty one in
- 1:47Speaker 1: the summer of twenty eighteen and turned twenty two the
- 1:51Speaker 1: following year. She was twenty two on the ninth of
- 1:55Speaker 1: December twenty nineteen. Working as a receptionist at a local
- 1:59Speaker 1: orthodontic practice. She answered phones, scheduled appointments, and learned patient
- 2:05Speaker 1: names faster than anyone expected. Colleagues remembered her as genuinely warm,
- 2:10Speaker 1: the kind of person who noticed when someone seemed off
- 2:13Speaker 1: and asked about it. She usually drove out to Root
- 2:16Speaker 1: nine to visit her grandmother on Saturdays.
- 2:19Speaker 2: Edna Belle was eighty one.
- 2:21Speaker 1: Years old and living in an assisted care facility. She
- 2:25Speaker 1: had advanced macular degeneration, which meant her central vision was
- 2:29Speaker 1: nearly gone.
- 2:30Speaker 2: She navigated the world.
- 2:31Speaker 1: Through peripheral sight and memory and the voices of people
- 2:35Speaker 1: she trusted. Julie's visits were two hours, sometimes more. She
- 2:41Speaker 1: brought food edna actually wanted, not what the menu offered.
- 2:46Speaker 1: She read to her. She sat with her. That Saturday
- 2:49Speaker 1: routine was the fixed point in Julie's week.
- 2:53Speaker 2: It had been for years.
- 2:54Speaker 1: In August of two thousand eighteen, Julie joined Ironfield Athletic Club.
- 3:00Speaker 1: She signed up for a twelve week personal training package
- 3:04Speaker 1: and the trainer assigned to her was Melvin Duncan.
- 3:07Speaker 2: Duncan was thirty four.
- 3:09Speaker 1: He had worked at Ironfield for about six years. He
- 3:12Speaker 1: was considered one of the club's most effective trainers. Clients
- 3:16Speaker 1: stayed with him, referred friends, renewed packages. He was methodical,
- 3:21Speaker 1: attentive and precise about the language he used. He spoke
- 3:26Speaker 1: in terms of data, numbers, measurements, trends. Progress in his
- 3:31Speaker 1: framing was always something that could be tracked. Within the
- 3:35Speaker 1: first six weeks, he sent Julie about two hundred text messages.
- 3:39Speaker 1: They were not aggressive, they were specific. He remembered details
- 3:44Speaker 1: she mentioned in passing a difficult call at work. Something
- 3:48Speaker 1: her mother had said a book she had been meaning
- 3:51Speaker 1: to read. He responded to those details days later, unprompted.
- 3:55Speaker 1: The texts arrived at the right moments. They felt, according
- 3:59Speaker 1: to later accounts, less like pursuit and more like being
- 4:03Speaker 1: genuinely seen. By October of twenty eighteen, they were in
- 4:08Speaker 1: a romantic relationship. There is something worth pausing on here.
- 4:12Speaker 1: The case record describes those early months as a period
- 4:15Speaker 1: of remarkable attentiveness. Duncan asked questions, he listened to the answers.
- 4:21Speaker 1: He positioned himself steadily and without apparent effort, as the
- 4:26Speaker 1: person who understood Julie better than anyone else in her
- 4:29Speaker 1: life did. That framing was not accidental, and it would
- 4:34Speaker 1: become the foundation for everything that followed. In November, Julie
- 4:38Speaker 1: began logging everything she ate, including water intake. Duncan had
- 4:43Speaker 1: introduced the habit as part of her training structure. By December,
- 4:47Speaker 1: he gave her a gift, a digital scale accurate to
- 4:51Speaker 1: the tenth of a pound. The instruction was simple, weigh
- 4:54Speaker 1: yourself every morning, send me the number. That number became
- 4:59Speaker 1: the first data point of her day. Every morning, before work,
- 5:02Speaker 1: before coffee, before anything.
- 5:05Speaker 2: She stepped on the scale and waited for it to read.
- 5:08Speaker 1: Then she sent the result to the man who had
- 5:10Speaker 1: given it to her. At the time, it felt like accountability.
- 5:14Speaker 1: It felt like being cared for. The scale arrived in
- 5:18Speaker 1: December of twenty eighteen. It was a gift that distinction matters.
- 5:23Speaker 1: Duncan didn't demand the daily wayans.
- 5:25Speaker 2: He framed them.
- 5:26Speaker 1: As partnership, a shared project of accountability between a trainer
- 5:30Speaker 1: and his client, who also happened to be the woman
- 5:33Speaker 1: he was now seeing. Julie stepped on the scale each
- 5:36Speaker 1: morning and sent him the number. He responded with encouragement
- 5:40Speaker 1: or with adjustment. The loop felt like care. It functioned
- 5:45Speaker 1: like surveillance. By the spring of twenty nineteen, something quieter
- 5:50Speaker 1: had happened. Becca Marsh, a friend Julie had known for years,
- 5:55Speaker 1: stopped hearing from her. The contact didn't end dramatically. Messages
- 6:01Speaker 1: went unanswered a little longer each time, then stopped being
- 6:05Speaker 1: sent at all. A coworker named Phoebe Carr noticed the
- 6:08Speaker 1: same drift happening with her. The mechanism behind it was
- 6:12Speaker 1: never a direct instruction. Duncan didn't tell Julie to stop
- 6:15Speaker 1: seeing Becca. According to the case record, he never issued
- 6:19Speaker 1: that kind of explicit command. What he did instead was
- 6:23Speaker 1: more efficient. He would mention after Julie returned from seeing
- 6:26Speaker 1: a friend that she seemed tired, that the people around
- 6:30Speaker 1: her didn't seem to appreciate how hard she was working
- 6:34Speaker 1: on herself, that real support looked different from what she
- 6:38Speaker 1: was getting. The observation was always gentle, It was always
- 6:42Speaker 1: framed as concern, and it worked. By summer, Julie was
- 6:46Speaker 1: canceling more visits with her sister Donna than she was keeping.
- 6:50Speaker 1: There was one routine Duncan didn't disrupt. Julie continued her
- 6:54Speaker 1: Saturday visits to Route nine to the assisted living facility
- 6:58Speaker 1: where her grandmother Edna lived, though there were some gaps.
- 7:02Speaker 1: Edna Bell was eighty one years old, nearly blind from
- 7:05Speaker 1: advanced macular degeneration, and she had been a constant presence
- 7:09Speaker 1: in Julie's.
- 7:10Speaker 2: Life since childhood.
- 7:12Speaker 1: Those Saturday visits continued through everything.
- 7:16Speaker 2: But here's the thing.
- 7:17Speaker 1: In October of two thousand nineteen, Edna asked Julie why
- 7:21Speaker 1: she had stopped coming for several weeks that summer. Julie
- 7:25Speaker 1: had not stopped coming. Edna's description of what she remembered
- 7:29Speaker 1: a visitor who was not Julie. Some one she sensed
- 7:32Speaker 1: rather than saw, was, in the words of the case record,
- 7:36Speaker 1: loose and unverifiable. She could not identify any one. She
- 7:41Speaker 1: could offer nothing specific, and Duncan, when Julie raised it
- 7:45Speaker 1: with him, had a response ready.
- 7:48Speaker 2: Edna's memory was failing.
- 7:49Speaker 1: Her condition made her unreliable. To take the account seriously
- 7:54Speaker 1: would be to cause Julie unnecessary distress based on something
- 7:58Speaker 1: her grandmother had imagined. Julie let it go. The listener
- 8:02Speaker 1: shouldn't because at almost the same moment a second image
- 8:06Speaker 1: was forming, this one on paper. Julie received a mailed
- 8:11Speaker 1: bank statement in October of two thousand nineteen. Her banking
- 8:15Speaker 1: app like most cash data from the last sink. What
- 8:19Speaker 1: appeared on her phone's screen was a version of her
- 8:22Speaker 1: account that lagged behind reality. The paper statement did not lag,
- 8:26Speaker 1: and on it, visible for the first time were two
- 8:30Speaker 1: at M withdrawals of two hundred dollars each, both on
- 8:34Speaker 1: a Saturday, both between one and two in the afternoon,
- 8:38Speaker 1: both at an at M on the far side of
- 8:40Speaker 1: Harwick County. Julie had not made those withdraws. She went
- 8:45Speaker 1: back further. The pattern held eleven transactions across eight months
- 8:50Speaker 1: always on Saturdays, always in that one hour window. The
- 8:54Speaker 1: mobile app had never shown them. The paper statement showed
- 8:57Speaker 1: all of them. The question that the physical scle evidence
- 9:00Speaker 1: raised was precise and narrow. Who had accessed her account
- 9:04Speaker 1: and from where? A judicial subpoena later traced the answer
- 9:08Speaker 1: to a secondary loggin, a session initiated from a device
- 9:12Speaker 1: registered to an email address Julie had never seen.
- 9:15Speaker 2: That address was a variation of.
- 9:17Speaker 1: The name Duncan had written on a client intake form
- 9:20Speaker 1: at Ironfield Athletic Club two years earlier. He had created
- 9:24Speaker 1: it specifically. The subpoena confirmed it eleven withdrawals two hundred
- 9:29Speaker 1: dollars each thirty five weeks of Saturdays, and Duncan's cell
- 9:33Speaker 1: phone records placed him near those at ms on every
- 9:36Speaker 1: single date. The meeting that changed the direction of this
- 9:39Speaker 1: case did not happen at a police station or a
- 9:42Speaker 1: lawyer's office. It happened at a highway diner in a booth,
- 9:46Speaker 1: over coffee that neither person was really drinking. Donna Belle
- 9:50Speaker 1: had not spoken to her sister in any real sense
- 9:53Speaker 1: for eight months. The calls that came in had been
- 9:55Speaker 1: brief scheduled around holidays, careful in a way that Donna
- 9:59Speaker 1: La later described as unlike Julie entirely. When the phone
- 10:04Speaker 1: rang in November of twenty nineteen and Julie's voice was
- 10:08Speaker 1: on the other end, not composed, not ceremonial, just her
- 10:12Speaker 1: sister calling, Donna knew something had shifted. Donna contacted Alan Andrews.
- 10:18Speaker 1: Andrews was forty seven years old, a licensed clinical social
- 10:21Speaker 1: worker with twelve years of experience in family court victim advocacy.
- 10:26Speaker 1: He was also the Bell family's cousin. He was not
- 10:30Speaker 1: a detective, He was not law enforcement. What he was
- 10:34Speaker 1: was someone who had spent over a decade learning to
- 10:37Speaker 1: ask the right questions in the right order. He met
- 10:40Speaker 1: Julie at that diner while she was already out. She
- 10:43Speaker 1: had left an hour early for her Saturday visit to Edna.
- 10:47Speaker 1: She sat across from Andrews, and he asked her methodically
- 10:51Speaker 1: about the scale, about the withdrawals, about the discrepancy between
- 10:55Speaker 1: the mobile app and the paper statement, about who had
- 10:59Speaker 1: access to her. She answered each question carefully. Then he
- 11:03Speaker 1: asked the last one. How long had Duncan been the
- 11:06Speaker 1: only person who regularly used.
- 11:08Speaker 2: Her phone alone? Her answer was quiet.
- 11:11Speaker 1: Almost every Saturday for eighteen months, eighteen months of Saturday afternoons,
- 11:17Speaker 1: eighteen months during which Julie sat with Edna at Route
- 11:21Speaker 1: nine while her phone and her banking credentials were with
- 11:25Speaker 1: a man she trusted completely. The calendar lined up exactly
- 11:29Speaker 1: every withdrawal, every Saturday, every window. When Julie was predictably
- 11:34Speaker 1: out of her apartment, predictably without her phone, the diner
- 11:38Speaker 1: conversation lasted two hours. By the end of it, the
- 11:42Speaker 1: shape of what had happened was visible, not yet proven,
- 11:46Speaker 1: not yet named in legal terms, but visible. Andrews began
- 11:50Speaker 1: making calls. Three weeks later, on the morning of December ninth,
- 11:54Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Julie Bell left her apartment at seven fifteen
- 11:59Speaker 1: carrying a single bag. She went to Donna's house. She
- 12:03Speaker 1: did not go to Edna's. She left her front door unlocked.
- 12:06Speaker 1: Picture the sequence from the outside. A digital scale sitting
- 12:10Speaker 1: in an open doorway in the early morning, cold, balanced
- 12:13Speaker 1: on the threshold, reading zero point zero, no footprints in
- 12:17Speaker 1: the snow around it. A door left unlocked from the inside,
- 12:21Speaker 1: a woman already gone. The simplest reading of that image
- 12:25Speaker 1: is wrong. The scale had been there when Janet Schmidt,
- 12:29Speaker 1: a meter reader who had worked Harwick County Roots for
- 12:32Speaker 1: eleven years, arrived at seven forty four in the morning,
- 12:36Speaker 1: about twenty nine minutes after Julie left. She called nine
- 12:41Speaker 1: one one. The reasonable assumption, the one that the physical
- 12:45Speaker 1: tableau almost demanded, was that something had happened to Julie,
- 12:49Speaker 1: that the scale meant a departure under dueres that the
- 12:52Speaker 1: empty threshold told a story of crisis. It did tell
- 12:56Speaker 1: a story, just not that one. The building had a
- 12:59Speaker 1: concrete overhead along its maintenance corridor, nine inches of concrete
- 13:03Speaker 1: flush against the building sidewall, invisible from the parking lot.
- 13:07Speaker 1: In freezing temperatures, concrete dried fast. A person who knew
- 13:12Speaker 1: that walkway, who had a key to the apartment, could
- 13:16Speaker 1: move from the corridor to the door and back without
- 13:19Speaker 1: leaving a single print in the snow visible from the lot.
- 13:23Speaker 1: Duncan had a key, Julie had given it to him freely,
- 13:27Speaker 1: as you give a key to someone you trust. He
- 13:30Speaker 1: had walked that route before, and on the morning of
- 13:33Speaker 1: December ninth, he walked it again, this time to leave
- 13:37Speaker 1: something behind. The scale showing zero because there was nothing
- 13:42Speaker 1: left on it. At nine twenty in the morning, Marcus Webb,
- 13:46Speaker 1: a financial crimes detective with the Harwick County Sheriff's Office,
- 13:50Speaker 1: arrested Melvin Duncan at his own apartment. Duncan did not resist,
- 13:55Speaker 1: He cooperated completely. He accepted charges of financial expit, fploitation
- 14:00Speaker 1: and coercive control. The coercive control statute had been on
- 14:05Speaker 1: the county books for three years, but this was one
- 14:09Speaker 1: of its first applications. He turned over copies of Julie's
- 14:13Speaker 1: financial records. He confirmed the email account. He walked investigators
- 14:17Speaker 1: through the withdrawal time line himself four years. That was
- 14:21Speaker 1: the sentence, but the case didn't end there. Six weeks
- 14:25Speaker 1: after the arrest, a detective from Olmsted County, two counties
- 14:29Speaker 1: west of Harwick, reached out to Marcus Webb. A complaint
- 14:32Speaker 1: had been filed in two thousand sixteen against an unnamed
- 14:35Speaker 1: personal trainer. The complainant was a woman named Sandra Cho.
- 14:40Speaker 1: The method a body composition monitor given as a gift,
- 14:44Speaker 1: calibrated by the trainer, returned to him after the relationship ended.
- 14:49Speaker 1: The complaint had been closed for insufficient evidence. Sandra Cho
- 14:54Speaker 1: never learned the trainer's name. What she could describe years
- 14:58Speaker 1: later was his voice is timing and, in her words,
- 15:03Speaker 1: the specific texture of his concern. Tera Halt, Duncan's ex
- 15:08Speaker 1: fiancee from two thousand fifteen, had once said something to
- 15:12Speaker 1: people who knew her after the relationship ended. She said
- 15:15Speaker 1: that by the time it was over, she had stopped
- 15:18Speaker 1: trusting her own memory of conversations. She couldn't say exactly
- 15:23Speaker 1: when that had started, She just knew it had. Duncan
- 15:27Speaker 1: had been doing this for years.
- 15:29Speaker 2: The instrument changed.
- 15:31Speaker 1: In Sandra's case, it was a body composition monitor, in
- 15:35Speaker 1: others a scale. Whatever fit the context. The method did
- 15:39Speaker 1: not change the attentiveness, the data, the access, the slow
- 15:44Speaker 1: narrowing of some one's world until.
- 15:46Speaker 2: The only version of reality.
- 15:47Speaker 1: They could see was the one he had constructed for them.
- 15:51Speaker 1: Julie Bell threw the scale away in the first week
- 15:53Speaker 1: of January twenty twenty. She didn't replace it. She went
- 15:57Speaker 1: back to Edna's That same month she beca marsh The
- 16:01Speaker 1: Saturday visits to Route nine continued, this time without leaving
- 16:05Speaker 1: her phone behind. Some things, once taken, come back slowly.
- 16:10Speaker 1: The record doesn't say how long it took Julie to
- 16:13Speaker 1: trust her own perception again. It only says she started
- 16:17Speaker 1: and that The first thing she discarded was the instrument
- 16:21Speaker 1: that had measured her worth every morning, before she had
- 16:25Speaker 1: a chance to decide it herself. Melvin Duncan was arrested
- 16:29Speaker 1: at nine twenty in the morning on the ninth of
- 16:31Speaker 1: December twenty nineteen. He was in his own apartment. He
- 16:36Speaker 1: did not run. The charges were financial exploitation and coercive control.
- 16:41Speaker 1: The coercive control statute had been on the County Code
- 16:45Speaker 1: for three years. It was rarely used. This case used it.
- 16:49Speaker 1: Duncan accepted both charges. Then he did something that surprised
- 16:53Speaker 1: the investigators.
- 16:54Speaker 2: He cooperated completely.
- 16:56Speaker 1: He handed over copies of Julie's financial records. He disclosed
- 17:01Speaker 1: the fraudulent e mail account. He confirmed the withdrawal timeline himself,
- 17:06Speaker 1: transaction by transaction, date by date, eleven withdraws two hundred
- 17:12Speaker 1: dollars each eight months, always on a Saturday, always between
- 17:17Speaker 1: one and two in the afternoon.
- 17:19Speaker 2: Cell tower data.
- 17:20Speaker 1: Placed his phone near each at m on each of
- 17:23Speaker 1: those dates, he had been standing fifty feet from her
- 17:26Speaker 1: money while she sat with her grandmother on Route nine.
- 17:29Speaker 1: The email account had been created using a variation of
- 17:32Speaker 1: the name Julie had written on her Jim intake form
- 17:35Speaker 1: two years earlier. A judicial subpoena confirmed it. He had
- 17:38Speaker 1: built the access point from the first document she ever
- 17:41Speaker 1: gave him. Detective Marcus Webb, who handled financial crimes for
- 17:45Speaker 1: the Harwick County Sheriff's Office, noted in the record that
- 17:48Speaker 1: the cash discrepancy in the mobile banking app, the reason
- 17:51Speaker 1: the withdrawals never appeared on Julie's phone, was not a glitch.
- 17:56Speaker 1: It was the result of a secondary login from the
- 17:58Speaker 1: device register to the fraudulent e mail. Someone had been
- 18:02Speaker 1: logging into her account from outside and the app had
- 18:05Speaker 1: simply retained the last session she had opened herself. The
- 18:10Speaker 1: version of her finances she saw every day was not
- 18:13Speaker 1: her finances, It was a snap shot Duncan had left running.
- 18:18Speaker 1: Duncan was sentenced to four years. There is a particular
- 18:21Speaker 1: kind of damage that does not show on a scan
- 18:24Speaker 1: or in a bank statement. It lives in the small
- 18:27Speaker 1: daily decisions a person stops making for themselves, what to eat,
- 18:32Speaker 1: when to call, whether to trust a memory of a
- 18:34Speaker 1: conversation that now seems slightly wrong. Julie Bell was twenty
- 18:40Speaker 1: two years old when she walked out of her apartment
- 18:43Speaker 1: on the ninth of December with one bag. She left
- 18:46Speaker 1: the door unlocked. She had planned that exit carefully, with
- 18:50Speaker 1: help in a diner booth. During a visit to her
- 18:53Speaker 1: grandmother that she had started one hour early, she went
- 18:56Speaker 1: to Donna's. Donna had made the first call. Donna had
- 19:00Speaker 1: found Alan Andrews. Andrews had asked the right questions in
- 19:05Speaker 1: the right order, not because he was an investigator, but
- 19:09Speaker 1: because he had spent twelve years watching what coercive relationships do.
- 19:14Speaker 2: To the people inside them.
- 19:16Speaker 1: He knew what to look for before Julie knew she
- 19:18Speaker 1: was looking. The scale went into the trash in the
- 19:21Speaker 1: first week of January two thousand twenty. Julie did not
- 19:25Speaker 1: replace it. She called Becha Marsh. She went back to Edna.
- 19:30Speaker 1: The Saturday visits to Root nine continued, this time with
- 19:34Speaker 1: her phone in her pocket. What the record cannot measure
- 19:38Speaker 1: is how long it takes to trust your own memory
- 19:40Speaker 1: again after some one has spent months making you doubt it.
- 19:44Speaker 1: Tera Halt couldn't name the moment it started. Sandracho filed
- 19:48Speaker 1: a complaint in two thousand sixteen and never learned the
- 19:52Speaker 1: name of the man she was describing. She could only
- 19:54Speaker 1: describe his voice and his timing, and what she called
- 19:58Speaker 1: the specific texture of his concern. That phrase is worth
- 20:02Speaker 1: sitting with, not the cruelty of it, the craftsmanship. The
- 20:06Speaker 1: concern was real enough to be textured, specific enough to
- 20:10Speaker 1: be recognized years later across county lines by a detective
- 20:14Speaker 1: who had never spoken to Sandra Chou before. The instrument
- 20:18Speaker 1: changed every time, the texture did not. Melvin Duncan had
- 20:22Speaker 1: no prior criminal record. He had been at Ironfield Athletic
- 20:25Speaker 1: Club for about six years. He was, by all visible measures,
- 20:29Speaker 1: a person who helped people get stronger. The statute that
- 20:33Speaker 1: sent him to prison had existed for three years before
- 20:36Speaker 1: his arrest. It had almost never been applied. What finally
- 20:41Speaker 1: applied it was a paper bank statement, a nine inch
- 20:44Speaker 1: concrete overhang, and a woman who kept visiting her grandmother
- 20:48Speaker 1: every Saturday for eighteen months, even when everything around her
- 20:52Speaker 1: had been quietly rearranged. Edna Bell was eighty one years
- 20:56Speaker 1: old and nearly blind. She noticed someone was wrong long
- 21:00Speaker 1: before anyone else did. She just didn't know what she
- 21:03Speaker 1: was noticing. Julie Bell knew eventually, and that was enough.
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