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Big Ideas · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Over:
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: We've talked so much lately about the things that have been hard, but there's a lot of things going right too, going well, actually, and we're trying to hold on to that. Some things take a lot of spoons to navigate. Like when our insurance changed, they made us change our doctor, which was super annoying, and I don't think that it's fair. Sometimes our health care system is so frustrating, but also I was able to take care of it. And I made an appointment, and our appointment finally happened.
• 1:37
  And I didn't even get anxious. Like, it was just a thing that we had to do. There was nothing invasive, so there was less to get scared about. But still, I wasn't even bothered or anxious by it. I just had to get through it, mostly so I could get my referrals from my ENT and my audiologist so that I can have my mappings for my cochlear implants.
• 1:58
  So it was a thing, and it took extra spoons, and I was a little worn out after, But I did it, and I did it without any kind of crisis. There wasn't even any panic. It just was normal, boring, irritating, but not a big deal, and that feels huge. Also, right now, while things are hard, my therapist has moved us to twice a week sessions, sometimes two hour sessions, which I think I prefer. I've always preferred that.
• 2:35
  There's something about a two hour session that that really changes the rhythm of things. And I know it's expensive, and I know we can't afford it very often, but it really helps when we do. Because otherwise, it seems like week to week, we are getting through surface things and putting out fires, but not actually getting to dig into things. But those two hour sessions are sacred. There's something about that block of time and having the space to be able to get through the surface things that are necessary and needed to talk about to really dig into the layers that are underneath that.
• 3:15
  So for example, in a one hour session, I could report and get through this is what's going on with the husband and what that's like. This is what's going on with the kids and what that's like, and here's how we're dealing with stressful things at work while the world is about to go to war, and we're in charge of refugees, and this and that, and how that is making our life harder. But then also, this happened with our friend from college, and this happened with our family of origin, and all of this is on my plate, and I'm having to deal with everything plus healing together. And it was a great conference, but also that's what it stirs up for me is this and this and this. I can say all of that in an hour if I'm really participatory and able to speak, which sometimes I'm not able to talk in therapy, so nothing happens at all.
• 4:05
  But on a day if I were really in a good place to start with and I stayed focused, I could get through all of those things, process those things, not because she needs a report on my week, but because I need to be able to maintain functioning. And so that's always a priority regardless of what's in the background. But in a week like this when so much is going on, there's no time left over from that to actually deal with, okay, and this is what came up because of those things, or this is what's going on internally in response to those things, or when we got these triggers at Healing Together, or we got these triggers because our friend from college called us, or these triggers because we had this random contact from our family of origin, Here's what that's about, and here are where are those layers. Like, we can't even get into those things without having that extra time to do so. So it really changes what's possible in therapy, and I would definitely encourage people to have those double sessions when that's possible.
• 5:14
  It's not often possible. Some therapists don't even offer them, and they're definitely twice as expensive, obviously. So I understand that it's difficult. There are days I think I am struggling so much I can't even get out of bed, but I have to get out of bed because I have to go to work. Because if I don't go to work, I can't pay for therapy.
• 5:38
  And if I can't pay for therapy, I'm never gonna get out of bed. Like, I get this cycle and that it's such a big deal and it's so stressful. And extra sessions, whether they're double or twice a week or both, isn't something that we always need. We've even had intenses in the past where they were six hour sessions, and you're just there for all day, and you do some really intense deep work. And that's pretty rare, but it's sometimes necessary just like sometimes intensive outpatient or sometimes hospitalization, like, these are just options for different kinds of therapy.
• 6:17
  Right? So I'm grateful that in a season where we needed extra support, we were with a good therapist, we had a good therapist, and and that she was available and offered extra support. Other things have been more tricksy. Like, we had a really intense dream, and I thought this might be worth tending to. So I emailed the dream therapist and said, hey.
• 6:44
  I had a dream. This is what it was. I know we still have a credit on our account. Could we meet and talk about that? But I've not heard from her.
• 6:51
  So I don't know if she's just busy or if there were complications with her baby being born or if she's not back to work yet or if she's like, you got another therapist, you're not my problem anymore. So I don't even know. And that's scary for that to just be out there, but at least I tried. I also don't know how to navigate what's left of my in real life friendships. I feel like it was just not what I needed, and I feel like I could not be what they thought I was.
• 7:33
  And so that's been kind of tragic, and we've grieved that and talked about it for two years. Don't worry. I'm not going into crisis. But in just trying to do my end of things, what can I salvage or do I really just need to let go? I kind of explored, like, can we go away for a weekend and maybe talk about things or or visit and have some time together?
• 7:56
  But one was like, I'm just keeping my weekends open because I've got this other family stuff going on. And the other one was like, it just depends on what it is we're gonna do. So I don't know. I just felt like neither of them were were wanting to commit to that or maybe I said it wrong or maybe that ship has sailed. And so I'm trying really hard to just focus on letting go and accepting any positive interactions that we do have just for what they are as it is.
• 8:32
  And I think that's really confusing because I feel like one of them is also doing that. And when both people are doing that, then no one is initiating or tending to the other. Both people are just protecting themselves. And so I think that that has just been lost to trauma, and it's not even about trauma. I think it's trauma.
• 8:54
  Everyone is just hurting, and so I'm just trying to let go of that. But healing together reminds me how much we need connection and how good it feels even though it's also super dysregulating when we connect with others. And I feel like I have experienced that consistently now for a year, maybe two years through the groups that I've been in. So thank you, Zoom. Who knew that came out of nowhere?
• 9:30
  Like, poor Skype. Y'all missed out. Whatever happened to Skype? Why did we lose them in the pandemic? Zoom turned out to be the cool people until their investors canceled my husband's musical.
• 9:47
  That was not cool. They wanna change it to, like, VR. And I'm like, no. No. No.
• 9:55
  No. No. No. No. You're not understanding.
• 9:58
  But that's okay. I'm not him. He's gonna have to work out his own musical issues. So, anyway, just a lot going on, and I'm trying to think about as the pandemic lifts a little bit or shifts, like, we're coming out of Omicron, I hope it's safe for a season. Spring is coming.
• 10:19
  Things will warm up. Surely, we will have at least a season before there's another surge, something. Like, how can we shift or transition what we have learned on Zoom groups the last year or two, how do we take that with us into real life? Can I even do that without messing it all up? Like, I don't know.
• 10:49
  I really don't know. How does that work? And there are some baby steps in that in that the kids are going back to public schools, and we're trying to build those relationships. We are going back to church in person and trying to build those relationships, except that I'm currently sitting in my car recording a podcast. Oh my goodness.
• 11:17
  And there are trainings coming up. We almost went to healing together. We came so close. We had a flight. We had a room to stay in where which we are so grateful.
• 11:32
  But at the last minute, there was a snowstorm, and the Omicron surge was so bad. It was just not safe to go for our daughter or for ice and snow because we're in Oklahoma. Who does not know how to handle ice and snow? So, anyway, we did not go to healing together in person even though we really thought until the very last minute that we were. But now the ISSTD conference is coming up, and are we gonna do that?
• 12:04
  Are we not? Are we gonna stay in that? Are we not? I've been trying to navigate what was like I need to run away from all these connections because I'm afraid because of what happened with my family finding the books and the podcast and what happened with my friend from college, I think ignited those two things together brought up so much memory time stuff to the surface that I think we panicked. And are we leaving not because we're afraid, but because we it's just time to step aside and we can't manage with the kids, and we need to be present with the kids, or are we just afraid?
• 12:46
  And untangling that has been really, really tricksy. I don't know. And I know ISSTD conference is not the same as, like, friends from Zoom group, but it's a transition because I know these people from Zoom. So it's an example. Can I do in person, like, neurologically handle, actually regulate my internal world enough to do in person what we've learned how to do in Zoom over the last two years?
• 13:22
  I don't know. But at the same time, is just living in my closet the healthiest thing? Probably not. So at what point are we gonna transition some of these things? At what point do we let go?
• 13:37
  At what point is it literally physically because of COVID safe to actually travel or to gather with other people? I just I I know that no one actually has those answers and that even as we find those answers, we have to decide for ourselves. But now that numbers are coming back down, I can't hide from the question really is the issue. So there are some other good things that are helping with the process in that numbers have come down so far where we live that it's actually been safe enough that we could send our children not just to public school, but to the after school program. Now I don't wanna say details about this because it's not safe to say where my children are every day, But it is a program with actual programming, not like a daycare, not just chaos in somebody's gym somewhere, like literal different activities that they rotate through and do super cool things and have therapy things.
• 14:48
  And, like, it's really, really good for them, and it's an amazing opportunity. And they let our children, like all six children, join the program for only a $100, which I know people don't talk about money. It's not appropriate to talk about money except that we don't have any no matter how hard we work. So coming up with that kind of thing for the children, even when it's really good for them, is next to impossible. But let me tell you, they were doing this little service project, which we think is important, so we try to teach them.
• 15:36
  But it's been hard during the pandemic, so we've had to be super creative. But we were helping these neighbors with something, and they ended up ultimately like, I I can't even explain the whole story. But, ultimately, this family sponsored our kids that $100 so that they can go to this program. So here's how it changes things. Here's how it changes things.
• 16:00
  Now that the numbers are coming down, the husband can now come back and forth to the house again. So we're moved from shelter in place to lockdown, and now we are back in public but masked. Okay? Everyone's fully vaccinated as they can be, and we are wearing our masks for those who are anxious about that or for those who are concerned about our daughter's airway. We're doing everything the best we can.
• 16:27
  They have been back in school in two for two weeks, and we've not gotten sick yet. I was really honestly, I was just bracing for it. I just assumed that, like, day two or day three, we would all have COVID. And I know that once we finally get it, it's gonna shoot through all 10 people of us in this group, all the six children, the husband and me, and the husband's parents. And so I just assumed we were all gonna have it right away, but we've not had it.
• 16:58
  And so I don't know if that means our vaccines are working or just that numbers are down or we had it and we didn't know it or it's just not our turn yet. But for whatever it's worth, so far we've been okay. So, like, does that mean you keep doing what you're doing because it's working, or does that mean you start to gamble a little bit? I don't know. I would rather just stay safe forever, but that is my trauma response.
• 17:26
  I have three teenagers, two preteens, and a big kid who thinks she's 30 as opposed to six little babies that I went into the pandemic with. Right? Our family dynamic has entirely changed since the pandemic started. We went into the pandemic with six little ones, and now you guys, I'm not even kidding. The triplets are such teenagers now that today, we just found out they get to go to their first church dance.
• 18:05
  And, oh my goodness. If you could hear the whooping and hollering about that, they are so stinking excited, and this is where we are. This is where we are. We're noticing girls, and we're noticing boys, and we're exploring things, and thinking about things, and staring, and drooling, like, oh my goodness, the hormones in our house right now. But everyone is doing really well, and I'm proud of them so far.
• 18:32
  So it's just a different dynamic for our family than it was before. And this after school program, they're with the same kids that they're at school with all day. So it's really as safe as we can make it besides if we were still in quarantine at home. Does that make sense? So I don't think that we have raised our risk level any.
• 19:06
  And when the husband comes to help or take his turn with the kiddos, he's wearing a mask, and we are wearing a mask just to protect the grandparents a little bit more, making that transition slowly because we don't wanna expose the grandparents to something their bodies can't handle when just because the kids have gone to public school. So we know they're being exposed to stuff. We wanna protect the grandparents. Our youngest daughter is seeming to be okay so far. So we're just being super careful, but also it's kind of time to start living again in the ways that we can that are safe now that numbers have fallen so fast, for which I am grateful that this was like a two month thing and not a two year thing this round.
• 20:00
  So even if there's gonna be another surge, like, how can I let them enjoy as much as they can while there's not while it's safe? I don't know. I know all of you are asking these same questions, and some of you are set way more free than we are just because of you have to because of your work or because you don't have grandparents or children in the home or medically fragile people around you. So this is like where you were a year and a half ago. I get that.
• 20:31
  But it's where we are now. And so just trying to navigate this and think about it, it brings up a lot of questions, and it brings up making some changes. So the first change is that we're able to pod with the grandparents again, but we are wearing mask with them just to be sure because the kids are going back to public school. The grandparents don't care. They're being very free about it even though they're careful.
• 20:57
  Well, his mother can't go anywhere. She's really not doing well. She's deteriorating very quickly, except not. It's a slow motion kind of thing, and that's just tragic and awful. But his father, like, walks the dog and runs errands.
• 21:10
  And when he goes out, he wears a mask, and so he's trying to be careful, but we just want to make them make sure that they're comfortable and safe. Right? So the after school program works only because it's with the same kids that they're already at school with all day, and they're masking for that. So it's working so far, and it's been two weeks. And I don't wanna adjust what do you call that in English?
• 21:38
  Jinx it? I don't wanna jinx it, but it's working for now. And you don't actually care about any of that. None of that is about DID except that it's my life. But here's why it matters.
• 21:57
  Because I have had to get up at two in the morning, do my work, stop at 05:30, get the triplets up and off to junior high, get the little ones up and off to elementary school, and then do my whatever morning routine, like shower and get ready and exercise and not in that order, all all of those things. Right? Eat breakfast because it's nonnegotiable. And do all of these things to take care of myself and then get back to work and try to finish before they get home from school. And then they come home from school, and we have all the evening activities at home with homework and Chromebooks and this and that, and they get them down.
• 22:41
  And so then it's seven or eight at night before I can finish my work. And with that, there is so many high needs and therapy things we have to do just to keep their bodies functioning that I can't really take care of myself for the rest of the day. Like, I have to eat dinner before they come home or I don't get to eat at all. That's just how intense it is. Okay?
• 23:07
  But now with this program and all of their therapies happening there, you guys, I have turned back into a mom. I mean, I, quote, quote, I, instead of also having to be a physical therapist and nutritionist and an occupational therapist and a teacher, Anna, Anna, Anna, like all these rules. Oh, Anna. Maybe that's what we can name her. Anyway, instead of having to do all these things for the kids while trying to work enough to pay our bills and trying to, like, just put our own self care on pause because it literally can't happen while so much is being demanded of us even though that's when it's super necessary.
• 23:55
  You guys, our world has changed entirely just in the last two weeks. So now we sleep until we're done sleeping, which is usually around five. We don't have to get up at two in the morning anymore. And at five, we don't have to go help with the kids. The husband drives over, gets the kids ready, and gets them off to school, and then he goes back to sleep because his mom sleeps in the morning.
• 24:28
  So he's getting enough sleep, but also getting interaction with the children. I get to sleep without being awakened by children, moms, you know what a big deal this is, and then have my own morning routine with some yoga or stretching or whatever I can do, sometimes a workout video, depending on the day. Don't be laughing at me. I'm trying. Make sure I get my nonnegotiable breakfast with some fruit and some protein and a grain and whatever, and then get cleaned up and dressed for the day.
• 25:07
  And by the time I do all of that, the children and the husband are gone. And then I can have a normal work day in peace and quiet without any interruptions. And when school is over, I finish work about the same time. But instead of drowning myself and children before I'm actually ready, they go to the after school program. They get all of their therapies done by therapists.
• 25:38
  They get their homework done with tutors. I get to stay as a mom who is not yet mommying, and I go for a walk in the park. Kabam. Take care of that. What do you think?
• 25:52
  Like, it has blown me away. It has completely changed our lives. I'm not even kidding. And after we go for a walk, then we come home and get dinner ready for the grandparents, drop that off, pick up the kids, and eat my own dinner, which is also nonnegotiable, while it's still hot. You guys, I have not had a hot meal in nine years unless I was not around the children.
• 26:26
  I'm not even kidding. You moms know what I'm talking about. So I get to eat my meal fresh. I get to make something creative. It feels good just as much as, like, painting or something.
• 26:38
  Like, I get to be creative, make sure I work with the nutritionist that I'm seeing to make sure that grandparents are also taken care of and getting what they need. So I'm I'm making healthy meals for all of us. I eat mine while it's hot in the peace and quiet, and then I deliver their meal to them, go pick up the kids, bring the kids home, and take care of evening things from a mom perspective, like being happy to see them and sweet to them and attentive to their needs because my cup is full and I have something to give now. And I get them tucked into bed and our evenings are sweet and peaceful and tender mostly sometimes. Oh, I've got some screamers.
• 27:25
  You know that. But mostly, I am doing 800% better as a mom and caring for myself because of this little tweak in our schedule change. I can't even tell you. Now if there's another surge and we get put back in lockdown, I'll lose that, and I will cry. Oh, they broke my cello, you guys.
• 27:54
  Did I tell you that? I can't even talk about that right now. Anyway but this program will also keep them during the day during spring break and this summer. And I think because we've had so much time together and because they were so isolated during the pandemic, I'm actually like, I keep sitting with it to make sure, but I actually think that that's what's best for them. I think that they need that social time.
• 28:22
  I think they need that freedom. I think I need the time, not because I don't wanna be with them, but because I have things I need to do so that we can function as a family. I need to eat lunch, which won't happen if they're home. I need to pay the bills, which is much harder when I'm trying to parent and work at the same time. Like, you just can't.
• 28:46
  I cannot tell you what a difference this has made in our world and how good it feels and how much better it is. They are so happy. They are having so much fun. They are making little friends. We are making progress with their physical therapies, and things are on track with that.
• 29:05
  The schools are on board. Like, it is the best thing to happen to us since free lunches from the schools. I am not even kidding. And I think it's okay to say that, to acknowledge that without intending or meaning any neglect of them at all. That it's okay that I don't have to be everything to everyone all the time.
• 29:34
  You guys figuring this out, I basically have saved myself at least three years of therapy. I'm not kidding. I can't tell you how good it is. When we need breaks from work, we can take breaks. Littles can do what Littles need to do.
• 29:50
  We are playing piano every day. Every day we can play piano. We can paint if we wanted, but we're getting our work done too. And so now all of a sudden, the pressure of the ISSTD stuff, those extra jobs don't seem so bad and are more possible because the children are occupied and or worn out. Do you know what else it also means?
• 30:13
  It means I can do Mandala Monday again. It means I can do our book group again. It means we can figure out some nerd town topics if we get volunteers. Like, this is part of what was shutting me down was there literally, it wasn't just that I had too much on my plate. It's that I was everybody's plate.
• 30:32
  And it wasn't just that I was too busy because I'm not. These other things are priorities for me. It's that I literally didn't have access to my self or my computer. Right? But we've moved their rooms around so my journaling stuff, my art stuff, my Zoom stuff is now all in my room.
• 30:53
  So I'm not going to be bothering them when I need access to those things, and they all like their bed spaces better now. Like on the Bottom Floor, there's a regular bedroom, but then there's a big space that they were sharing. But my office was also in there even though we had it partitioned off. So I was afraid to go in there in the evenings when some of those groups were because I was afraid of waking them up. Like, could go in there and not wake them up, but I don't know that I could listen to you or talk without waking them up.
• 31:26
  And I can't use headphones because of my cochlear implants. So this is a game changer in every way for every aspect of self care you can imagine. So I did not get to go to Florida for healing together, but all of a sudden, my life is completely rearranged so that every day suddenly feels like a vacation or like I got my own life back or maybe I'm my own Airbnb. I don't even know. Like, it's amazing.
• 32:09
  You guys, I can't even tell you how excited I am. I've made it to more Zoom groups in the last two weeks than I've made in the last four months. That's what a difference it has made. So I'm just excited. And that brings up the next question of transitioning to bringing some of those relationships into real life.
• 32:33
  And I don't know what that's gonna look like or how often that can happen, but I think we need some in person meetups. And I think we need some in person events in safe, careful, paced out ways once in a while. Because waiting once a year for healing together is too long. You guys, we can't even handle not seeing our therapist over the weekend. Right?
• 32:59
  Like, waiting until the next week to see your therapist is too long. Waiting a year to see each other is too long. So I don't know what that's gonna look like in the future or how or when we can pull off any aspect of that, but start thinking. Start saving. Start preparing because it's going down, and we're gonna have fun safely, carefully when it's appropriate, when it's time.
• 33:29
  Or maybe I'm just dreaming, But that feels good too because that's about the future. It's not just drowning in the past, and it's not just being overwhelmed in the present. It's something exciting and hopeful and looking forward to all the ways that connection happened, and I'm excited about that. I don't know. What do you think?
• 34:04
  Is that too big of a deal or entirely possible?
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing. One of the ways we practice this is in community together. The link for the community is in the show notes.
• 35:00
  We look forward to seeing you there while we practice caring for ourselves, caring for our family, and participating with those who also care for community. And remember, I'm just a human, not a therapist for the community, and not there for dating, and not there to be shiny happy. Less shiny, actually. I'm there to heal too, being human together. So, yeah, sometimes we'll see you there.