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One Battle After Another Is Delicious w/ Ian Mattingly · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

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Hey, delicious, grab a plate and feast on the
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delicious culture. I'm your host, John Francois.
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We've got a great pop culture meal this week.
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The critical and audience favorite one battle
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after another. You probably heard about it at
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this point. Uh, it is written and directed by
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the wonderful Paul Thomas Anderson, uh, stars
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Leonardo DiCaprio, Tiana Taylor, Benicio del
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Toro, Sean Penn, a wonderful newcomer by the
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name of Chase Infinity. We are going to digest
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what we love about this movie. And I. because
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it's not just me on this podcast. Joining me
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is a LA -based filmmaker and motion designer
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as well, Ian Mattingly. Ian, thank you so much
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for joining me. I appreciate it. You also were
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a fan of the movie. So I thought why not basically
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kiss its ass, even though it probably doesn't
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need any more of that. Yeah, probably gonna be
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that for the entire time that we talk. But yeah,
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thanks for having me, man. It was definitely
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one of my favorite film -going experiences of
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last year. Absolutely. And for those of you that
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need like a brief summary from IMDB, when their
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enemy resurfaces after 16 years, a group of ex
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-revolutionaries reunite to rescue the daughter
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of one of their own. Leo plays Bob Ferguson,
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who is a revolutionary. Teyana Taylor plays his
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wife, a fellow revolutionary. What was her name?
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Perfidia Beverly Hills? Yep. Yeah. I was telling
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my wife, uh, Tony, who I watched this with my
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first of two times that perfidia, it was like,
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Oh, this sounds like a mixture of like a yogurt
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that helps you poop, but also it's like a bone
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disease. Like perfidia is such a fun name. I
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don't know if you thought about that as well.
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I knew it had to mean something. So I looked
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it up and our Spanish speaking friends probably
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were ahead of us in that it means, uh, to be
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duplicitous to me to, uh, backstab. Oh, yeah.
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That, uh, it's, it's right there in plain sight
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for us about what the character is. Yeah. Cause
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she goes from like this, like presenting as this
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political revolutionary hero. And then, um, the
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sort of like racist conservative military general,
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played by Sean Penn, Colonel Lockjaw. He is determined
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on like taking down this revolution and he has
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a perfidia included in that, but also this very,
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uh, sort of like hate. sort of sexual attraction
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to perfidia and perfidia does rat out her fellow
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revolutionary compatriots to get I believe no
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prison time right she's immune from that and
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she is she sent into witness protection and witness
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protection she She was not crazy about having
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the baby, Willa, with Leo's character, Bob, who's
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her husband in the movie. So not a great mother
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from the get -go, just very like, all right,
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I'm going to focus on the cause and I don't want
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to be a part of your parental complex or whatever
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the fuck she was saying. So yeah, Profidia just
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kind of backstabs both her revolutionary compatriots.
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In a way, she backstabs the husband and father
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of her child. Or we find out later in the movie
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that Bob is not the... biological father, but
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yeah, yeah, you're, you're, you're quite right.
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I mean, perfidia being the definition of backstabbing
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is quite fitting for the character. It actually,
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it actually goes through quite nicely. I would
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say though that, you know, I've seen it three
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times. And I did see it first time in the theaters
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on, on Cinemark has their own version of kind
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of IMAX. It's called XD. It's just a huge screen,
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but Um, it was, uh, incredible my first time
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seeing it that way. Uh, but on my third watch,
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I mean, I was really looking at, I was able to
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kind of look at the details because it is such
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a huge film. It is such a spectacle that you
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can kind of lose some of the details and it,
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but it really rewards rewatches. And, um, on
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my third watch, I am convinced she knows from
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the beginning that Willa is not Bob's. Really?
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That is why, that is why she. turns on that child,
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basically. Oh. Well, yeah, that would make sense.
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I mean, because Perfidia, like, she knows the
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affair that she's having with Colonel Lockjaw.
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She knows how intense that is. So I guess that
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would make sense. She's probably just looking
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at the timing and going, OK, there's a good chance.
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And then for her to see Bob doting over the child
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in such a way, I could see that her being like,
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oh, I just want to tell him so bad it angers
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me. That he, it's not even his kid. Like she
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wants, she can't say that, but she's feeling
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that. But then at the same time, there's a bit,
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she's off screen and Bob's listening. She's talking
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to her mother and she's telling her mother about
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how suddenly that's his girl. And I think that's
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a real feeling that happens when people have
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children is like, everything becomes about the
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children. And, and so that, that, that little
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bit hits. So there's a lot, I think within. the
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dynamic of it. It's not as simple, I think, as
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the first time you go and see the film and you
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think you understand Profidia. I really think
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it's more layered and that character is more
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interesting. You think there's also a bit of
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sadness, a bit of guilt in Profidia's, like what
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you say is her suspicions that Bob... Oh, yeah.
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Should know that that child is not his or that
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she knows that this child does not belong to
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Bob. Absolutely. And, and I think in the end,
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that's why she runs away from all of it. She
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goes down to Mexico. We see her leaving through
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the border at some point, but then, uh, we hear
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later she was spotted in other parts of the world.
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But, uh, yeah, I think she just can't deal with,
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with any of it. And she's not going to be Locke
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Joel's pet. But now that he's like, he feels
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like I got you out of the trouble. Now you're
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mine. And she was, she can't be cage. I mean,
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that's like, that's the character. She can't
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be cage. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, let's, let's
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kind of break it down. And we're going to start
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with Tiana Taylor, AKA perfidious performance.
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Uh, first of all, the movie got nominated for
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what? 13 Academy awards. Second only to sinners,
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which I believe got nominated for like 16. Yeah.
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Oh, yeah. Yeah. I believe sinners. got nominated
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the most out of any movie in Oscar history. The
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Oscars have been around for like more than a
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hundred years. That's a big, big deal. So to
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break it down, the one battle after another nominated
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best supporting actress for Tiana Taylor. We
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have best original score for Johnny Greenwood,
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best adaptive screenplay for Paul Thomas Anderson,
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best supporting actor for Benicio Del Toro and
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Sean Penn. I wonder if there's going to be certain,
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I always wonder when two actors from the same
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movie get nominated in the, same category, is
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there like a bit of awkwardness? What do you
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think is going to happen? Well, generally, I
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think what happens is they split the vote. Cause
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if you love the movie, you're going to choose
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one over the other. And then you probably end
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up splitting the vote and then neither of them
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ends up winning. Unfortunately, because I think
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both are more than deserving in this category
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and we can get into them later. But yeah, I,
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I, I, I. I think they both deserve the noms for
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sure. I mean, I loved Benicio del Toro in the
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movie, but I think Sean Penn deserves it more.
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I'm just going to say that. I think Sean Penn,
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his very gruffy, real life personality just fits
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so well with the Lockjaw character. So I think
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that Sean should walk home with that Oscar. That's
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just my opinion. Yeah. I could go, we could go
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into Benicio now or we can hold that for later
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if you want to. Let's hold that for later when
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we get to it. Cassandra Kulukundis nominated
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for best casting, which I believe they created
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this Oscar nomination more recently and they
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should because it definitely does take a lot
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of work to find the right actor for a certain
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role because even I would believe in the 1 %
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of like well -known Hollywood actors, you're
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still choosing from, I don't know, maybe 10,
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20, 15 names. So to really cycle through and
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just find like who fits the right role. in terms
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of look, in terms of cadence of voice, et cetera.
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It's probably got to, it has to be a challenge,
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I would believe. Absolutely, and you're always
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looking, because I've cast films, and you're
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looking for someone that can embody that character.
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There's very few Daniel Day -Lewises in the world
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that can completely transform. There's very few
8:28
actors like that. So you're looking for someone
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that you meet them and you go, oh, this person
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has the essence of that. So that part of casting,
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is just a feel and that I think is the talent
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in it. I don't think this year though, it's going
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to be tough to beat Marty Supreme in the casting
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category. In that what you're saying, a lot of
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times there's a Rolodex and you've heard Quentin
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Tarantino talk about this. They go, here's the
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hot actors. And he goes, no, no, I don't want
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the hot actors. I want the ones that work for
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my characters. And if you look at... Marty Supreme,
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it's full of character actors and non -actors.
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I mean, George Gervin, who's an old NBA player,
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the Iceman, he pops up in the movie. It's just
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an incredible mix of real people and actors and
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faces that just look incredible. I think it's
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gonna be really hard to top that as far as the
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casting Oscar goes, but if it weren't for that
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movie, I would absolutely give it two to one
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battle, because it's just a feat of casting.
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Especially Tiana, I think. Right. Marty Supreme
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is on my watch list. I did contact someone who
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directed me in a pilot for a television series,
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because as I mentioned to you off air, I'm an
9:40
actor as well. And he had Marty Supreme on his
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list of things that he loved and watched this
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year. So got to watch it, especially since my
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wife and I were so... old or so behind, we're
9:53
just getting into Homeland, which is like a show
9:56
that is like more than a decade old. And just
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seeing Timothee Chalamet as like the vice president's
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son, it just is a reminder of like, oh my God,
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I got to see him in Marty Supreme. So it's definitely
10:06
worth it. Definitely worth your time, I think.
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Yeah. So one battle after another also Oscar
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nominated for best production design. Andy Jurgensen
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is nominated for best film editing. It's nominated
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for best sound, best cinematography and best
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actor, of course, for Leonardo DiCaprio. Do you
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think he's going to get a second Oscar in his
10:24
very lengthy layered career for this movie? I
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don't just the way that the Oscars work and the
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way that voters, you know, the emotion of the
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thing comes into it. Generally, it's like he
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just won. for the revenue, people feel like that.
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I don't think anyone deserves it more than him
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this year, but I think that's how, I don't think
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it's gonna break his way. Might see a Chalamet
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win. He'd be the youngest, I think, actor, right?
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Because we've had younger actresses. We had like
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Tatum O 'Neil. No, no, how old was? Yeah, we've
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had younger actresses. I think, what's his name?
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From last year, that won his second Oscar. Was
11:04
it Adrian Brody that won last year? Adrian Brody,
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yeah. Cause he won his first one when he was
11:09
younger, but I don't think he was younger than
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Timmy. I don't know, maybe. But either case,
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I don't think this is, I don't think this is
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Leo's year, unfortunately. I think he was incredible,
11:17
but I hope he wins. There is also some buzz around
11:19
Michael C, not Michael C, Michael B. Jordan for
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Sinners. Interesting how that story will develop
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because look, Sinners, I feel like the... best
11:29
that it got was that whole cinematic and box
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office achievement award at the Golden Globes.
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It was right. Its reputation at that award ceremony
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seemed to be, oh, this was a movie that was both
11:39
well made, but mostly it made a lot of money
11:42
in an industry that really needs to make money.
11:44
And I feel like the Oscars giving center all
11:47
the, all the nominations. It could go either
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way. I mean, it's going to have the most nominations
11:51
and no wins, or it could just kind of give us
11:55
some very important wins like. best actor for
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Michael B. Jordan. Yeah, yeah, I forgot about
12:02
that. I think you're right. I think the Globes
12:06
did downplay the importance of Sinners. I think
12:10
that is how they looked at it as like, oh yeah,
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it's a popcorn movie that made a lot of money.
12:15
That's a terrible take. It is an incredibly deep
12:18
personal film to Ryan Coogler that... deserved
12:21
every, all of our money and also all of our attention
12:26
and all of the discussion around it. It's about
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way more than just vampires. And I think that
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that's why, um, it's getting the Oscar nominations.
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I actually, now that you have me thinking about
12:36
it, I really do think, uh, Michael B Jordan has
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a good chance at it. People love him, uh, just
12:43
as a person he's great in interviews. He'll do
12:47
the whole campaigning like no one else. And people
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love it when guys play two parts. People love
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that. Actors, they love just the technical ability
12:57
to do that. Like, oh, you were talking and then
13:00
you weren't. You're talking to someone else and
13:02
then you jump to the other side. You had to do
13:03
the other part. That is quite an achievement
13:07
in the technical respect, so I think he has a
13:10
good chance at it. It reminds me of that evil
13:12
twin story device on soap operas. Sanders kind
13:15
of borrows somewhat from that. I also like Michael
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B. Jordan as a person. I also think he's great
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in interviews. He's never been my favorite actor.
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I just don't think he has a lot of range that
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I tend to see from other actors. but he is that
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kind of actor that I've seen in others where
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it's like, okay, performance -wise, range -wise,
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you don't give me much, but you just happen to
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be in really great movies. So I think because
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of that, like, I'm okay with him getting his
13:45
recognition, his due, because he involves himself
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with great projects that mean something, with
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great people like Ryan Coogler. So if he wins
13:53
Best Actor Oscar, I won't be mad at it. I think
13:55
that... in this movie, he did do a great degree
13:59
of wonderful work, so. Yeah, and I think it goes
14:02
back to casting. People cast him in these roles
14:04
where, you know, his personality works. So I
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think there's a lot of fantastic movie stars
14:11
who are maybe not the greatest actors. They play
14:14
a version of themselves in everything, but they're
14:16
just movie stars, you know? When they're on the
14:19
screen, you're like, I'm watching this guy. And
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that's what it is, you know? And... I think he
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has that in spades. Yeah. Going back to One Battle
14:26
After Another, last two nominations we are going
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to mention in terms of the Oscars. Paul Thomas
14:31
Anderson, of course, for Best Director. And finally,
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One Battle After Another, one of the many nominees
14:35
for Best Picture. So let's start with Tiana Taylor's
14:38
performance that's been nominated for Best Supporting
14:40
Actress. I wanted to get your thoughts on this.
14:44
And I tend to describe things and people and
14:46
performances by adjectives. And with Tiana, I
14:49
was like writing down words like attitude, intense.
14:54
like, sexually thrilling chemistry between her
14:58
and Colonel Lockjaw. I was right in it. Cold
15:00
-hearted towards the cause, the revolutionary
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cause, at the risk of the stability of her family
15:06
and her fellow revolutionaries. Like, for a performance
15:10
that pretty much ends, like, I don't know, like,
15:12
halfway through the film, it stuck with me, I
15:15
loved it, and I just want to get your thoughts
15:17
on her performance. Yeah, no, like I was saying
15:20
before, I think she is the, um... I don't want
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to say she's a discovery because she has been
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in other things and she's been great in other
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things, but this is putting her on that next
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level. And I think that she took the, took advantage
15:35
of this opportunity. And I think it really does
15:38
say that this, this woman could be a movie star
15:41
in her own right. And suddenly you're seeing
15:44
her all over the place now in more things. She
15:48
had that this character and this goes to casting
15:50
and and I wouldn't be surprised if PTA Like had
15:56
her in mind even before the casting director
15:58
suggested it Because this character has to have
16:03
a presence that after this 30 minute prologue
16:07
You she read she kind of looms over the whole
16:10
film for the next two hours after you know, you
16:13
know, so It's that It's her physicality. It's
16:18
her voice. It's that face, those cheekbones,
16:21
everything about her look, but her swagger, her
16:24
attitude that you don't, you know, that's not
16:27
someone you soon forget. I mean, gosh, I'm old
16:33
enough to remember when she was in the Kanye
16:35
video and it was just her working out. What Kanye
16:40
video was she in? Because like Tiana Taylor,
16:42
she's a musician, right? Because her name sounds
16:44
familiar in the music world. Okay. Yeah. So she's
16:47
a singer that it was like, she was on the, she
16:50
never like quite broke through, but yeah. But
16:53
there's, I should have wrote the name of the
16:56
song down, but it was from the Life of Pablo,
16:58
I believe that album. And it's just these incredible
17:01
shots of her body. Cause she's so muscular and
17:05
she is, she's beautiful and sexy. And the camera
17:09
is just like. all over. They got a great shot
17:12
of her butt. Yeah, so did Leo. And I wanted to
17:17
write down as well, like just like sexy, like
17:20
not only a gripping, intense, passionate performance,
17:24
but just like when you combine sex appeal with
17:26
it, it's just like, oh God, you got me. And I
17:30
think you also have to have In these roles, I
17:33
don't like when they cast an actress who is maybe
17:39
smaller in stature or something and you think,
17:43
I don't believe she could kick ass, you know?
17:46
Like, leave Tiana Taylor, kick some ass. And
17:49
when she's running full bend, you know, she's
17:53
just flat out. Booking. Yeah. She's like intensely,
17:56
she's like intensely furiously jogging when she's
18:00
trying to like sort of emotionally avoid the
18:03
difficulty of seeing. Bob, Leo's character, be
18:07
very paternal, very fatherly toward the child,
18:10
toward Willa. Like, Perfidia thinks that, oh,
18:13
you're giving the child more attention than me,
18:15
as if it's an either -or situation with parenting.
18:17
So yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah.
18:18
Well, and then she's running during, after the
18:21
botched robbery. And I think that there's, that
18:23
is not an accident that this character often
18:26
runs. as she literally and figuratively runs
18:30
away from things. And talk about iconic imagery.
18:35
You know, Tiana Taylor was on SNL recently. They
18:38
did a wonderful parody of, like, one battle after
18:40
another, action figures that children can play
18:43
with. And the whole joke was having these, like,
18:45
little white children be like, oh, you like black
18:47
girls? Like, as they're holding up, like, action
18:49
figure. You have to see the sketch. It's great.
18:52
But one of the action figures that they held
18:53
up was Tiana Taylor as Profidia, with the pregnant
18:57
belly, with the machine gun. Like, that image,
19:00
I could just see. Oh, yeah. That image is incredible.
19:02
That's why I put it in that first teaser trailer.
19:04
It's like... they knew they had something with
19:06
that image, man. Yeah, that's gonna be hooked
19:08
into people's brains. So, Teyana Taylor, not
19:11
only for performance, but just the visualization
19:14
of the character. Just that, something as simple
19:18
as pregnant belly woman with machine gun firing
19:20
various shots. It's gonna be iconic for years
19:25
to come, I'm sure. Absolutely. Um, let's go to
19:29
best original score for Johnny Greenwood and
19:32
we may be lumping this in with a best sound as
19:35
well. Um, what did you think about how like sound,
19:40
how music was used? I detected slow symphony
19:44
orchestra and Mexican guitar influences in the
19:46
early part of the movie. Um, some popular songs
19:49
were used. You have dirty work by Steely Dan,
19:52
which me as a black man, I have a white wife
19:54
who is born and raised here in Vermont and she
19:56
He didn't even know that song. And I'm like,
19:58
oh my God, you don't know Dirty Word by Steely
19:59
Dan? You have an old white dad. He should know
20:02
that song. Come on, he should have taught it
20:03
to you. Yeah, I have an old white dad. He loves
20:06
it. And is he a big Steely Dan fan as well? He
20:10
played a lot of classic rock when I was a kid.
20:12
So I definitely heard that song a lot. Yeah.
20:15
Yeah. There were some soft, haunting piano keys
20:18
that were pretty prevalent throughout the movie
20:21
that was like playing under the intensity of
20:23
like Bob trying to escape from the federal law
20:26
enforcement. And then there was that one point,
20:29
I think this was the car scene. between Willa
20:31
and Bob and the Christmas Adventurers Assassin,
20:35
where it was like this synthesizer -y keyboard
20:38
percussion that was playing. So I don't know,
20:40
all sorts of interesting elements of sound and
20:42
music. And I just was curious to see if you had
20:45
anything in that front that stood out to you.
20:48
Yeah, Johnny Greenwood, you know, he's worked
20:50
with PTA since he stopped working with John Bryan.
20:55
And Greenwood has this almost like single note
20:58
approach that I find really is a great hook,
21:01
you know, it's just that and it's they used it
21:04
in the trailer that one piano note and there's
21:06
actually there's a funny video that I can't remember
21:09
her name, but one of the young ladies from SNL
21:14
did Little video about like making fun of how
21:17
it's how simple it how simple it is. She's like
21:19
Oh one battle after another composer was like
21:22
But then those notes as piano notes become percussive
21:29
which as Someone who was very involved in music
21:32
when I was younger like I love anything percussion.
21:35
I love hip -hop I love I love a driving beat
21:38
and he uses this melodic instrument the piano
21:42
that to become Like like he's doing a drum solo
21:47
almost it's like he's like doing the hi -hat
21:49
ding ding ding ding and then you hear and it's
21:52
almost like The piano is doing like a drum fill.
21:55
It's really interesting stuff and I think just
21:58
brings that heightened The heightened intensity
22:02
and tension to a lot of the scenes. It's it just
22:05
gets under your skin Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful.
22:08
What about Paul Thomas Anderson being nominated
22:11
for a Best Adapted Screenplay? So the script
22:14
inspired by the 1990 novel Vinland by Thomas
22:19
Pinchon. Are you familiar with that book? Yeah,
22:22
but before we move on to that, I just did want
22:24
to say one more thing about the music. The end
22:27
song is called Profidia. What? Oh, yeah, yeah,
22:31
yeah, yeah. By Los Ranchos or whatever. I saw
22:33
that in the subtitles. Yeah, yeah. Good looking
22:34
out. Yeah. That's awesome. I think that's when
22:37
I saw it, too, was in the subtitles. So I looked
22:38
it up, and I was like, how about that? So did
22:42
you name the character because of that song title?
22:44
I did a good bit of reading and watching interviews
22:47
and stuff, and I didn't come upon anything where
22:49
he admits where the name came from. So I don't
22:52
know. But regarding Vineland, yeah, I... I did
22:58
actually, I was listening to the book. I think
23:00
it's really interesting to want to call this
23:03
an adaptation because it is so loosely adapted.
23:07
It is, it's more like he just got the vibes and
23:11
then he was like, all right, I'm going to go
23:13
make my movie. Yeah. So there's a lot, there's
23:16
a, there are similarities in that you do have
23:19
an aging hippie who has a daughter and the names
23:23
are all different. So I made a note of what the
23:29
names were, if I could find them. But yeah, there
23:36
are also other characters that are with the government
23:39
that kind of is a number of them that make up
23:45
kind of the Lockjaw character. So it's really
23:48
loose. So the father's name is Zoid. The mother
23:52
on the run's name is Frenesi. and the daughter's
23:55
name is Prairie. And then there are a couple
23:58
characters, like I was saying, that I think are
24:01
kind of an amalgamation that make up Lockjaw.
24:04
It's a guy called Brock Vond and another guy
24:07
called Hector. They're these kind of like just
24:09
thugs that work for the government and are tracking
24:11
down the ex -revolutionaries. Now, the book is
24:15
set in, it was written in 90, set in 84, but,
24:20
and then the... earlier stuff is like supposed
24:22
to be the 60s, right? The early 70s. So when
24:25
you had the real weather underground. And I think
24:27
that's what's really interesting about him choosing
24:30
to then update this to now because, you know,
24:37
you go 16 years from 1984 and you're talking
24:41
about the civil rights era. You go 16 years from
24:44
now back and you're in the Obama era. Oh, wow.
24:48
Which, right. And what I think is super interesting
24:51
is when they flash forward from that little baby's
24:55
face to seeing a fully grown Willa, you hear
25:01
the voiceover, Profidia say, not much has changed.
25:06
And I think that there is a, because under Obama's
25:09
watch, there were a lot of people deported. It's
25:13
just, it wasn't done in such... in your face
25:17
on the street kind of way. So as much as there's
25:21
all this consternation and upset about the criticism
25:26
of the right, I do think there's a lot of criticism
25:30
in this film for the left and its ineffectuality
25:35
in getting things done. I think that Bob is the
25:39
representation of the ineffectual white liberal
25:43
movement. This is a movie that I think you can
25:45
go and you can watch it and you can enjoy it
25:48
for face value. But I can't help myself, especially
25:51
after watching it three or four times, also being
25:53
a fan of Paul Thomas Anderson's, I think he always
25:57
creates characters that represent bigger things.
25:59
I can't help but see each character representing
26:02
a different piece of what we are now as America.
26:06
And he's able to use this book that was written
26:09
30 plus years ago, looking back to 50 years ago.
26:12
and say to us, like, Perfidia says, not much
26:15
has changed. Yeah. Yeah, especially on Bob's
26:19
end, you know, to bounce off that, I mean, to
26:21
have him and Perfidia, like, you see them in
26:24
their prime at the beginning of the movie, fighting
26:26
the revolution, you know, holding... you know,
26:29
people like Lockjaw hostage and, you know, having
26:32
their weapons and stuff like that. And then that
26:34
doesn't become successful, sustainable. You cut
26:37
to Bob many years later as Will has grown and
26:39
he is on drugs and alcohol all the time. And,
26:43
and maybe not quite processing the fact that
26:45
like, oh, this cause that you so believed in
26:48
and that you thought would yield success, successive
26:51
like, or successful long -term results were not
26:54
quite there. So yeah, I think that's a great
26:57
point. I think that's a great point. The point
26:59
of Bob being an ineffectual white liberal. I
27:02
didn't even think about that. So yeah, that's
27:03
fantastic. And I think he really likes Pynchon
27:08
because he also adapted Inherent Vice from Pynchon's
27:12
novel. But I think after doing that, which was
27:16
my understanding, I haven't read that one, but
27:18
my understanding is that one is a little more
27:20
faithful to the novel. I think he just realized
27:23
he wanted the feel and what Pynchon does, which
27:26
is, he was doing this in 90, this kind of like
27:29
post -modern meta referential thing. There's
27:33
a lot of stuff about television and TV shows
27:37
in his book. And you see that in, in, in One
27:43
Battle After Another, you see a lot of like,
27:46
he says like, no fear, like Tom Cruise or the
27:49
different references when they're at the fire
27:52
and Leo says she doesn't even know she's pregnant.
27:56
And Tiana Teller says, I kill him dead before,
27:59
and Jungle Pussy finishes her sentence. I let
28:02
him beat me. That's from the color purple. There's
28:04
like all these references to pop culture and
28:07
to other movies and things, and that's very Pinchonian.
28:10
But it has become very much part, especially
28:12
post Tarantino, of our film language. And it
28:17
just fits so well with what he's trying to do
28:19
here and in him trying to do something that feels
28:23
modern. So I think that's one way that he also
28:27
draws from him. But as an adaptation, it's very
28:31
thinly adapted. Okay. You were mentioning an
28:36
example of dialogue that stood out to you. I
28:39
would say this movie, has quotable lines that
28:41
will stick with me. And that's usually the sign
28:44
of an iconic movie. I mean, obviously, you know,
28:47
you like black girls. Oh, I like black girls.
28:49
Like that kind of thing. We know that. I think
28:51
it was perfidia that said in the voiceover, every
28:53
revolution fights demons, but motherfuckers end
28:56
up fighting themselves. That was meaningful.
28:58
That nun that Deandra and Willa come up to to
29:03
keep Willa safe. Her line of the daughter of
29:06
a rat is a baby rat. A baby rat. Noting the nun's
29:10
skepticism toward Willa because Willa comes from
29:12
Perfidia's belly. And at the end, when Colonel
29:17
Lockjaw, who shockingly is not dead after that
29:21
pitch perfect shot from the Christmas Adventurers
29:23
assassin on the road in that car scene, he comes
29:26
back alive. Colonel Lockjaw's face is all fucked
29:28
up. He's in the office meeting at the Christmas
29:30
Adventurers, like ready to get his own office.
29:32
He's all suited up. A Christmas adventurers people
29:35
in the meeting, they kind of put them on blast.
29:37
Like, hey, we, we kind of know what's going on
29:40
with you and this woman of another race and what's
29:43
going on. Explain yourself. And just hearing
29:45
the words, I was raped in reverse and semen demon.
29:49
It's like, it's just quotable, memeable lines
29:52
that people will be thinking about and maybe
29:55
satirizing for a long time. So that's, that's
29:57
probably what stood out to me from this, from
29:59
the screenplay was just all these lines that
30:02
are just delicious and that you can chew on.
30:03
Yeah, and you know, Paul Thomas Anderson is a
30:07
freak, man. Like a dude is a weirdo in the best
30:10
possible way. I say that as a compliment because
30:13
he allows his freak flag to fly as he makes his
30:17
films and I think that that's what makes his
30:19
movies just a little weird, just a little on
30:22
the edge of what you expect and that's what makes
30:25
them memorable. So things like Seamen Demon or
30:28
the Sisterhood of the Brave Beaver, like the
30:31
names and stuff, it's so funny. And so out there,
30:34
I actually heard on one of your other podcasts
30:38
where you do not agree that this is a comedy.
30:42
I don't. I don't. There's a lot of comedic moments,
30:45
but as a whole classifying as a comedy, like,
30:48
no, the subject matter just seems so dramatic
30:51
for me to be considered a comedy, but you're
30:53
saying it's a comedy? The first 30 minutes, a
30:55
hundred percent are not a comedy. There are really
30:58
weird things going on. Like the fact that the
31:00
guy's called Lockjaw. at this scene, you gotta
31:04
put a huge spoiler warning at the beginning of
31:06
this, by the way. That's fine, that's fine. People
31:08
know we're recapping it at this point, it's fine.
31:11
The scene, you know, the whole erection scene,
31:14
it's all very weird and a little off -kilter,
31:18
but I do think the first 30 minutes is not as
31:20
funny as where it goes. And once it starts to
31:24
be funny, it's Pratt falls. physical humor, just
31:29
incredible site gags, as well as just dialogue
31:33
and stuff. Lockjaw, she says to him, like, hold
31:36
me. And he says, I can give you the embrace of
31:39
the federal government. That's awesome. When
31:45
he asked the one kid, like the one man, did they
31:47
have weapons? And he replies, I think they're
31:50
vegetarians. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember that.
31:52
And it's throughout the whole thing. What I think
31:55
is incredible about this script and the film,
31:59
the way it was made in general, is PTA was just
32:04
taking from everything and everyone constantly.
32:07
There's so much that was not in the script. that
32:10
was just happening and he's like, that's good.
32:13
The ability to recognize, this is something that
32:16
I think sets the great directors apart, is that
32:19
you may have a plan, I hate to be the one to
32:22
quote this for the millionth time, when Mike
32:25
Tyson says, everyone's got a plan until you get
32:27
punched in the face, right? When you're on the
32:30
set, you're getting punched in the face all day,
32:33
right? And in the middle of that battle, no pun
32:37
intended, you are able to recognize good ideas,
32:41
an actor does something that you hadn't planned
32:43
on, or the space is a little different and maybe
32:47
we should move over this way or do this, and
32:49
it takes you off your plan. And to be able to
32:52
be like, this is going to be better, is an incredible
32:56
skill for a director to have. And it sounds like
32:58
that's what he did throughout the whole thing.
33:00
He was constantly, you know, do you know about
33:03
how Benicio basically brought that character
33:05
to set with him? I do not, please tell. Okay.
33:09
Do we want to get into supporting actor now?
33:11
Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, I was gonna say, like,
33:14
in terms of Benicio del Toro as the sensei, going
33:18
back to the point of, like, arguing whether it's
33:20
a comedy or a drama, my God, I got so amused
33:23
and had quite a few laughs, like, seeing the
33:26
balance of Benicio's sensei calm, like, with
33:30
the intense paranoia of Bob as he's trying to
33:33
be on the escape. I mean, it was great. I mean,
33:36
and again, going back to Quotable Lines, We got
33:38
a bit of a Latino Harriet Tubman situation going
33:42
on at my place. It's like, I love that. I love
33:44
that. Yeah. So, you know, Benicio, you know,
33:49
drinking and taking selfies with Bob outside
33:51
the hospital when they should be on the run.
33:53
I mean, he just has a sort of, God, he just has
33:56
sort of a sensei -like coolness to an otherwise
33:59
like very frantic situation that I thought was
34:02
great. But how did he, how did he come with the
34:04
character? So this is why I'm kind of like bringing
34:07
this up during At the same time, we're talking
34:09
about the, uh, the screenplay is because PTA
34:13
was malleable enough that when, when Benicio
34:16
del Toro hits the ground, now he's coming from
34:19
shooting the Phoenician scheme, uh, which, which
34:22
is a Wes Anderson movie. And I like Wes Anderson
34:25
a lot. When you watch Phoenician scheme, Benicio
34:29
was very locked in and doing the Wes Anderson
34:31
tone and the delivery at which. I think the best
34:36
-went Wes Anderson movies are when he has someone
34:38
at the center of it who's just let off the leaf.
34:40
And I'm thinking of like Royal Tenenbaums or
34:43
Ram Budapest. But he's not, he is very much doing
34:47
the Wes Anderson thing. And it feels like he
34:50
hit the ground here with one battle after another
34:52
and said, look, I've been dying to just get out
34:55
and be Benicio. Because he got there and he came
34:59
up with the, apparently like, Yeah, he's involved
35:04
with the women that work at the hospital and
35:06
like, so they're suddenly having to, Paul's going
35:09
like, oh, that's good, that's good. Let's actually
35:11
add that to the script in real time. And he's
35:14
just inventing all these things that he said,
35:16
I'm going to be cool. If you see, he said the
35:18
only direction I want is if you see me feeding
35:22
off Leo's energy and getting a little excited,
35:25
just tell me to calm it down because I should
35:27
always be calm. So when the women are secretly
35:30
trying to find a way for Bob Ferguson to escape
35:33
from the hospital, that was Benicio's... That
35:34
was all Benicio del Toro's idea. He brought so
35:37
much of that character. And they had that building.
35:41
I just read a really good piece on SlashFilm
35:45
where they went over that whole set piece in
35:48
the middle. When he goes to Sensei, and then
35:52
they go... back to the perfume store and then
35:55
they go up. That building really exists like
35:57
that with the trap door to upstairs and all that
36:00
stuff. It was really like that and they had to
36:03
kid it out and set deck it. So they already kind
36:06
of had that kind of idea of like what his layer
36:09
might be. But then once he started bringing all
36:11
these other things, it was just adding and adding
36:13
and adding. And I think that from a script standpoint,
36:16
from what they were able to add to the production,
36:19
the set deck and all that, it was all. Because
36:22
Paul was like letting it all come in and and
36:24
be part of this thing and it became just so much
36:28
richer and so much more depth to every element
36:31
of filmmaking because of that. Interesting. Let's
36:34
talk about the casting a little bit and shine
36:36
some light on characters who may have not been
36:38
spotlighted as much in the movie as others. So
36:41
Cassandra Kulu -Kindis nominated at the Oscars
36:44
for best casting for one battle after another.
36:47
I mean, again, I'll stress like Sean Penn, he
36:49
has this like white man of a certain age substance
36:53
use like macho ruggedness to himself where like
36:57
from the First second I saw him as Lockjaw, I'm
36:59
like, yep, they did perfect casting. So I'm glad
37:02
Cassandra made that choice or was instrumental
37:05
in that choice. You know, Leonardo DiCaprio,
37:06
of course, he comes with not only the star power,
37:09
but I love the - paranoia that he displays as
37:12
Bob in both a comedic and dramatic sense. I thought
37:15
he did that, balanced that out really, really
37:18
well throughout this movie. Not a lot of times
37:20
where I can say, oh my God, Leo made me laugh
37:22
in a movie because he's usually associated with
37:24
like these prestige dramatic moments. Regina
37:27
Hall, Regina Hall, what did you think about her?
37:30
I mean, I thought she was really great as like
37:33
sort of this worried, stern, pensive, maternal
37:36
aunt figure, Deandra, as she was trying to help
37:39
Willa escape from. of the federal law enforcement.
37:41
Any thoughts about her performance? Yeah, there
37:43
is an analogous character in Vineland to her
37:47
as well. And what I think is really cool about
37:51
this casting is we've seen her be funny. We've
37:54
seen her be the big, funny character. Wasn't
37:58
she in Scary Movie? Yeah, that's what I'm talking
38:01
about. That's what we're used to from her. And
38:06
yet she has these... big soulful eyes and PTA
38:12
just shot the hell out of it. She just put that
38:15
camera right on her face and let her emote and
38:18
you just get everything you need. I thought she
38:21
played this role incredibly doing more with less.
38:25
It was really great. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know
38:28
if you know, but one of the Christmas Adventurers
38:29
club members, legendary. Saturday Night Live
38:33
writer, James Downey. So legendary that he has
38:35
a Peacock documentary about him. So check that
38:38
out. I highly recommend it. It's called Downey
38:40
Wrote That. Are you a big fan of the show Scandal?
38:42
No. Well, my wife is. So she did note that the
38:48
president of the United States in the Shonda
38:49
Rhimes show, Scandal, Tony Goldwyn, he plays
38:53
pretty much the leader of the Christmas Adventurers
38:55
Club. And I just find it ironic because Kerry
38:58
Washington, a black woman lead in Scandal, the
39:00
president has an affair with her in Scandal,
39:02
and then here he is playing a white supremacist,
39:05
just kind of as opposite as you can imagine.
39:07
Yeah, I think that those are great pulls. I think
39:10
that those smaller parts, when you get those...
39:13
those great faces and those great character actors.
39:17
I think those are really the linchpins to a great
39:19
film. It really helped it to feel, again, more
39:23
rich and more rounded out. that old guy with
39:26
the bad haircut at that Christmas Adventurers
39:28
underground meeting, you know what I'm talking
39:29
about? The one that's like, Laggia got his dick
39:32
dirty and now he needs to clean it. This fucking
39:35
guy, I looked at his face, I looked at his bad
39:37
haircut, his sagging old man's dying face. And
39:40
if you wanted to cast the perfect aging grand
39:43
old wizard from the Ku Klux Klan look, that's
39:46
the guy. So I award. Just that whole, yeah. to
39:50
the comedy of it, the fact that they're the Christmas
39:54
adventurers and they do stuff like they call
39:59
in a double Yankee white inquisition. Just incredible
40:06
stuff. You can see them as the Illuminati or
40:12
as oligarchs of our country, the rich billionaires
40:15
running. I do have a theory that I haven't seen
40:18
anybody kind of touch on that. I think that they're
40:21
specifically Christmas themed because of the
40:26
capitalistic aspect to the holiday itself. And
40:31
so that kind of to me makes them more of the
40:34
rich that are controlling all of us. But I did
40:39
see it mentioned that... You know, there is something
40:42
to the idea that we've all been said not to say
40:45
Christmas anymore. You know, we're all have to,
40:47
you know, there's this backlash to saying happy
40:49
holidays, which is ridiculous. Yes. Christmas
40:53
being a symbol of both Christianity and capitalism,
40:57
two things that definitely go hard with a conservative
41:02
and or an extreme alt -right movements that that
41:09
really just shown itself very well in this movie.
41:14
And going back to the best sound nomination,
41:17
I think this kind of qualifies in the best sound
41:19
category when, who was that old woman that welcomed
41:23
one of those, that Christmas adventurers assassin
41:25
inside? Oh yeah, yeah. She was someone's wife,
41:29
I don't remember. Okay, but just noting how they
41:34
like... The movie loudly played Hark the Herald
41:37
Angels sing from Ellis Gerald. So loud that it
41:41
like overpowers the dialogue. You almost can't
41:42
hear much of what the old woman and the assassin
41:46
are saying. And I may be overthinking it, but
41:49
like I found that there could be some symbolism
41:52
in that. Like, oh, here is this big song that
41:57
of course represents like this Christmasness,
42:00
this sort of like white Christian purity. but
42:03
Ella Fitzgerald, a black woman singing it. So
42:06
yeah, just those layers. It's like, oh yeah,
42:09
she's singing this very iconic Christmas song
42:13
that you could find sung by white people at any
42:15
church celebrating Christmas, but also she's
42:18
a black woman and we're about to see a white
42:19
supremacist underground meeting. So there was
42:21
just these layers to it that I thought. And again,
42:23
it's overpowering so much that you can't hear
42:26
the white people's dialogue. So that's just one
42:29
of the notes that I found. Absolutely, there's
42:34
no way that that is a coincidence. I think you
42:36
hit that one on the head right there. Yeah. And
42:39
also, and I know this is probably obvious, maybe
42:41
this is not worth noting, but like when Lockjaw
42:45
is in that convent room with Willa, after all
42:48
the law enforcement have handcuffed everybody
42:50
and whatnot, and Willa herself is handcuffed,
42:53
Lockjaw, Willa in a room together, Lockjaw tells
42:56
her to come closer as he's about to take the
42:58
paternity test. You have the quiet, haunting
43:00
piano, and then it just is combined with this
43:03
suddenly loud... violin strings as Willa is walking
43:08
toward Lockshaw. It scared me a little bit because
43:11
it was like, and it's probably fitting because
43:14
it's a very intense moment. Yeah. You know, I'm
43:19
never given a thought till just now as we're
43:22
talking about, but I wonder how people take into
43:24
account when they're voting for best sound because
43:26
sound takes into account a number of things.
43:29
Sound that you record on the day. of course the
43:33
soundtrack and then you have Foley sound or additional
43:38
sound effects, things like that and then that
43:40
all has to be mixed and mixing itself is an art.
43:45
So all those things I think add to it. My favorite
43:48
moment of sound has to be the protest scenes
43:52
because... Oh man, seeing that in the theater,
43:55
you know, with the Dolby sound and you're hearing
43:58
the crackling of the fire and you're hearing
44:01
just, even when you're not seeing all the troops
44:04
on the screen, you're hearing like rustling and
44:06
footsteps and things. And even when you're, you're
44:08
just hanging on a shot lockjaw and you can see
44:11
things in the background, like the fire crackling
44:13
and just out of, everything's out of focus. You
44:16
still feel the world through the sound. And that
44:18
is an incredible achievement. A reminder and.
44:22
I apologize on behalf of the movie theaters,
44:26
because I know that one battle after another,
44:28
it was considered an underperformance at the
44:30
box office, despite like all the critical and
44:32
audience favorable reviews. Um, but yes, you,
44:35
you just mentioning what you did reminds me of
44:37
like the big difference between seeing a movie
44:39
theater or seeing a movie in a movie theater,
44:41
as opposed to seeing it from a streaming service
44:44
at home, because I wouldn't have noted that fantastic
44:47
sound thing that you just mentioned, watching
44:50
it twice, both by myself and with my wife at
44:52
home. I think the movie theater would have added
44:54
a greater experience. And I hope, I hope that
44:57
if this movie does win Oscars, or at least leading
45:00
up to the Oscar ceremony, that they will do what
45:03
Sinners is doing and have a re -showing in the
45:06
movie theaters just to kind of build a buzz and
45:08
remind people of the value of the theater experience.
45:10
I think because of the nominations, I think it
45:12
is, you can still catch it at a theater here
45:15
and there. And I don't feel like I need to apologize
45:18
because I did my part. It was my birthday weekend
45:22
when that film came out. And I was like, I don't
45:26
think one of my favorite filmmakers has ever
45:28
had a movie come out on my birthday. And so I
45:31
made all my friends go to that movie. And some
45:34
of them were scratching their heads. But we had
45:37
a great time. We had a whole row. And it was
45:41
a blast. I mean, it was one of my favorite birthdays
45:43
I've ever had, and I've had a lot of them. So
45:45
you live in Los Angeles, correct? Okay. When
45:48
the Oscar nominations come out... And I guess
45:50
this also can go to when the Oscars ceremony
45:52
happens. Does the energy feel different in that
45:55
town? Because that's where show business is.
45:57
That's where the Oscars will be held. Like, do
46:00
you feel a certain different buzz in the air
46:03
when nominations are announced? Or is it just
46:06
kind of a normal day for you? Probably within
46:08
the... within certain circles. I'm not in those
46:12
circles. I would love to be in those circles.
46:16
In my day -to -day job, I mentioned before we
46:21
got on that I've done some work with Warner Brothers.
46:25
They had a really tough year in 24 and then 25
46:31
was just huge for them. They broke a record of
46:35
the most, the highest openings. in a row, yeah,
46:41
and weapons, and they distributed F1. So definitely,
46:45
I mean, I saw that from my side of things, because
46:47
they put out a lot of four -year consideration
46:49
stuff, and when a movie does well, you definitely
46:53
see the marketing spend go up. So yeah, I mean...
46:58
Awards are good for the Los Angeles economy for
47:01
sure. Yeah. Yeah The caterers are working the
47:05
the awards are basically commercials for the
47:08
movies because I'm more likely to watch a movie
47:10
if I've heard of it It being an Oscar nominee
47:13
or an Oscar winner versus not Um, so I definitely
47:17
agree with you on that. I want to get your thoughts
47:19
on the pacing of the movie. And this kind of
47:21
goes into like Annie Juergensen being nominated
47:24
for best film editing because both me and my
47:27
wife, when we finished watching it, for me, it
47:30
would be the first time watching it. I thought,
47:33
okay, like I feel exactly how I felt watching
47:37
Godfather part two. Cause Godfather part two
47:39
was probably like three and a half hours, but
47:41
didn't feel it because the story was so engaging.
47:44
That was actually a slower paced movie, but because
47:47
the story and characters were so engaging, it
47:49
didn't feel like this. Whereas one battle after
47:51
another, like right then and there from the first
47:54
second, there's an intensity to it that gets
47:56
you going. And it kind of doesn't stop. Like
47:59
even watching it the second time, it was like,
48:01
wow, like for a two and a half hour movie in
48:04
this day and age where people struggle to get
48:07
through like 30 second clips, like the fact that
48:09
it just moves, moves, moves, moves, moves. It
48:11
just is fantastic. So I hope, I hope. gets the
48:14
award for editing, so. Yeah, it is an incredible
48:17
achievement. Never for once feel like it's dragging.
48:21
There's never one moment where you're like, okay,
48:23
I get it, get on with it. You're just like, what
48:26
are we doing now? What are we doing now? And
48:29
yeah, who do you know, do you have on hand who
48:34
else is nominated? For the editing award? For
48:37
editing, yeah. I do not, no. No, no. Okay. Yeah,
48:41
it'd be hard to beat. It is, especially when
48:47
you consider how much improving and things that
48:50
they did. PTA almost never runs two cameras.
48:53
I read his editor saying that he wrote, he did
48:55
run two on Leo's password crash out at Sensei's
48:59
because he just wanted to get it and have an
49:03
option to cut to another angle. But they hang
49:07
on him just like this, yelling at. Comrade Josh
49:11
for a long time because it's just so good and
49:14
in choosing when to stay with the character and
49:18
when to cut away is is is just gut and The editing
49:24
the choices made are just so phenomenal. Yeah,
49:27
I would love to see this movie win best editing
49:29
for sure Comrade Josh, that's a stupid fucking
49:31
name for a revolutionary What's my favorite kind
49:37
of pussy? Mexican hairless. Again, I could quote
49:40
this movie till the day is gone. What else? I...
49:45
Oh, oh, I think, unless you have any other thoughts.
49:48
Do you have any other thoughts about the movie?
49:49
No, I was just looking myself as to who else
49:52
got nominated. I mean, Sinners... Oh, I was gonna
49:55
answer your question. So for best film editing,
49:57
the other nominees, F1, Marty Supreme, Sentimental
50:00
Value, and Sinners. Yeah, F1, those... Car races
50:04
are pretty fantastic. They're handled great.
50:08
Sinners is very special. Editing is going to
50:14
be tough. I haven't seen sentimental value that
50:16
is on my list, but what a tough category between
50:21
just those four. It's really great. Hey man,
50:25
whenever we think that film is dying, movies
50:28
are dead, and I look back at what we had in 2025,
50:32
like damn, good year. Good year. People seem
50:36
confused that F1 was nominated for Best Picture.
50:39
I have not seen it. Have you seen it? And do
50:42
you think it deserves to be? It's the Barbie
50:45
Black Panther nom. They always throw a big one
50:49
on there that has no chance of getting the prize.
50:54
But you want Brad Pitt at the Oscars, man. You
50:57
want him in the chair. You want to see him. You
50:59
want to have some kind of nod to the to the movie.
51:04
And so, you know, they like to have movies that
51:06
people already know that are there. I, you know,
51:09
it's fine. Cool. That's why they expanded it
51:11
to 10. It used to be five, now it's 10. And that's
51:13
why, you know, so they can have more populist.
51:16
It was a good movie. It was fine. For what it
51:18
was, I had a great time at the theater. All right.
51:21
So to close out our conversation about one battle
51:22
after another, predictions on who will actually
51:25
win what Oscar. So I'm just going to kind of
51:27
quickly get my predictions. I think that Tiana
51:30
Taylor, she'll like follow up her Golden Globe
51:34
buzz with the Oscar for best supporting actress.
51:37
I am going to say that Sean Penn could win best
51:44
supporting actor. I am going to give best director.
51:52
God, I don't know. But I don't, was Ryan Coogler
51:54
nominated for best director? Hold on. He was.
51:58
Yeah. You think PCA is going to win Best Director?
52:01
That's a tough one between the two of them. Is
52:03
Benny Safdie up there too? For Best Director?
52:06
Yeah. Benny Safdie. You mean Josh Safdie for
52:11
Marty Supreme? Josh. Sorry, Josh. My bad. Yeah.
52:14
Yeah. He's up there. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah.
52:16
It's going to be tough, man. Marty Supreme is
52:18
a crowd pleaser. It is also idiosyncratic and
52:21
weird. But it's fun and I think people love Timmy.
52:26
I don't know, that's going to be tough. I will
52:28
challenge you on Teyana Taylor though, because
52:31
Amy Madigan is - Ugh, I forgot! It's her weapons,
52:36
and that's how these things go. They're like,
52:39
Hollywood loves a comeback story, they would
52:41
love to see her. I mean, weapons is a really
52:46
fun movie, and I do think that that's a fun one
52:49
because there is a little more beneath the surface.
52:52
But that character is just wild and memorable.
52:55
Everyone's like, oh, wow, Madigan, you know,
52:58
happy to see her back doing something big. And
53:01
I think I think she's going to take that one.
53:03
Yeah, I'm looking at her credits and I think
53:05
she was an uncle buck with John Candy, like many
53:07
years ago. So like he just has like a really
53:09
vast resume. But I literally said the other day,
53:12
oh, my God, I hope Amy Madigan wins for weapons
53:15
because and Gladys, someone on, I think, read
53:18
it. got it down correctly, where you think of,
53:21
like, the more intense, like, oh, and Gladys,
53:23
like, attacking and killing people and having
53:25
her seance and whatever as, like, big horror,
53:28
but probably the more haunting scenes for me
53:30
is, like, or the haunting scene, rather, is the
53:35
quiet moment that she has with Alex at the kitchen
53:38
table, you know? Just that quiet conversation,
53:44
her just... slowly, gradually creeping both Alex
53:48
and the audience, like, and the way the camera
53:51
closes in on her. I think for that alone, Amy
53:53
Madigan deserves the Oscar. I'm so mad that she's
53:56
in the category with Teyana Taylor, because I
53:58
also love Teyana's performance, but now that
54:00
you think about it, I think Amy Madigan should
54:01
go home with it, man. It's a tough year, man.
54:04
It's really, really fun stuff. I mean, you know,
54:08
Teyana Taylor's probably got a long career ahead
54:09
of her now though. She'll get another shot. Yeah.
54:12
Yeah, maybe. All right. Well, I am so glad that
54:15
you joined us, Ian, to talk about this pop culture
54:18
meal, one battle after another, nominated for
54:20
maybe not a record, but just 13 Oscars, which
54:22
is still a lot of Oscars to be nominated for.
54:25
That's our pop culture meal. And we're going
54:29
to try something different. For those of you
54:30
who have been listening to the podcast, we're
54:32
going to also talk about what's our favorite
54:34
meal that we've consumed this week. For the second
54:39
time, my wife cooked this wonderful Indian dish,
54:43
which is not like new. It's a common Indian dish.
54:47
White rice, butter chicken with veggies, and
54:50
she bought some like pre -made naan bread on
54:52
the side. It was great. Loved it. Always looked
54:55
forward to the leftovers. What about you, your
54:58
favorite actual meal of the week? So it's funny,
55:02
my wife is actually Indian and so we do a lot
55:04
of Indian food and it's nice that those flavors
55:10
have kind of become part of America's Chinese
55:14
food. It's just American food now in a lot of
55:16
ways, you know? Yeah. And so, so, but my favorite
55:20
of the past week was a place in Culver City called
55:23
Momos Souls. They make Momos. You know what Momos
55:26
are? I do not know what that is. They're just
55:28
a Himalayan, what do you call it? Dumpling. Just
55:30
a Himalayan dumpling. But this place does them
55:33
differently. And, you know, the Himalayas are
55:35
very upper part of, off of the side of India.
55:41
So there's a lot of Indian flavors in there.
55:43
So they, I actually had a paneer. Momo, which
55:46
was crusted and fried. So it was incredible.
55:52
Yeah, so that was my favorite. If I could ask,
55:56
how would you describe the taste and texture
55:57
of a Himalayan Momo? Well, you know, we've had
56:01
them at other places and they have them there
56:03
too, where it's just a regular dumpling. It's
56:06
a doughy outside and nice filling inside. And
56:09
those are delicious. They even do them there.
56:12
They'll put those dumplings in a sauce, but then
56:15
They do these fried ones, which are, like I said,
56:17
they're crusted. And so they have more of a bite
56:20
to them, a little crunch on the outside, which
56:22
who doesn't love that. And the inside is just
56:24
like a thick curry paneer, which was just fantastic.
56:28
I can talk about anything, man. Which is why
56:32
it's valuable to have you here. Oh my God. I'll
56:34
just go off on food on anything, whatever you
56:37
want to talk about. Well, fuck Vermont. Let me
56:38
drive over to Culver City and get that Himalayan
56:41
Momo. That sounds delicious. Yeah, man. Oh my
56:43
God. Well, Ian Madeline, thank you so much for
56:45
joining me for the one battle after another slash
56:48
rice butter chicken and garlic naan slash Himalayan
56:53
Momo episode of The Delicious Culture. Yeah,
56:56
of course. And for those of you listening, watching,
56:58
whatever, you can consume The Delicious Culture
57:00
wherever you get your podcasts. We're on Apple,
57:02
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57:04
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57:06
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57:08
If you are on Apple, please leave us a written
57:11
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57:14
been told. You can email thedeliciouscultureatgmail
57:17
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57:20
or feedback. That is thedeliciouscultureatgmail
57:23
.com. Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, follow, subscribe,
57:28
comment, like, share, at. The Delicious Culture,
57:31
that is at The Delicious Culture, and I am on
57:33
TikTok personally, at JonFrancoisPresents. Ian,
57:37
please promote whatever you like. I know you
57:40
are on socials and I know you have a feature
57:42
film that you're in the process of making. Tell
57:43
us about what you got going on. Yeah, so right
57:46
now I am working on finishing my feature film
57:49
and hoping to have a lot more updates on my Instagram,
57:54
which is at The Mattingly Boys, which is the...
57:57
account for my brother and I. And then I also
58:00
have a design account, which is just at Ian Mattingly
58:03
Designs. I love that. All right. Well, thank
58:06
you, Ian. I hope to have you back again on the
58:07
podcast for more fabulous movie talk. And for
58:11
those of you listening and watching, thank you
58:13
and let deliciousness ring.