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Episode 3: Thorman Land Management · Random Ass Dudes Podcast

• 0:03
  Welcome to Rad Cast, the Random Ass Dudes podcast where
• 0:06
  absolutely nothing's off limits. Hosted by two guys with no
• 0:10
  script, no agenda and no clue what's coming.
• 0:13
  Next. If it's random, it's fair game.
• 0:16
  TuneIn. Laugh with us, argue with us, or
• 0:19
  just wonder what the hell did I just listen to.
• 0:22
  New episodes come out weekly here.
• 0:24
  Chaos is guaranteed. All right, Well, welcome to RAD.
• 0:32
  Cast. Thank you.
• 0:33
  Thank you. Ryan Yes, Sir.
• 0:35
  How you doing? I'm.
• 0:36
  Doing well, yeah, so. Good.
• 0:38
  Are you a little nervous? Not as much as I thought I'd be.
• 0:41
  Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Nate's not going to be here
• 0:46
  today. He's not, he's not feeling too
• 0:49
  well. So for those of you that we're
• 0:52
  excited to see Nate in his beautiful calves, he is not
• 0:55
  here. I'm sorry.
• 0:56
  Yeah, I didn't know you had to wear shorts to be on the
• 0:59
  podcast. Oh, no.
• 1:00
  Maybe next? Time.
• 1:00
  Yeah. Only.
• 1:01
  Only Nate. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04
  And if you ever want to see his calves, he's on only calves.
• 1:09
  I'm just kidding. So what?
• 1:12
  What is it about this podcast that you want to get out of?
• 1:16
  Get out of it. Honestly, it's just kind of cool
• 1:19
  to do it in general. I don't really put myself out
• 1:23
  there as much, you know, And, you know, seeing what you guys
• 1:27
  have done so far with the podcast, I thought it was really
• 1:30
  cool. Yeah.
• 1:30
  You know, the, you know, the guest you had on last week or
• 1:36
  your last episode, anyway. Yeah.
• 1:38
  And then just seeing the back and forth between you and Nate.
• 1:41
  Yeah. You know, it's, it's almost like
• 1:43
  we're, you know, just hanging out and talking.
• 1:46
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:47
  It's pretty cool. Yeah.
• 1:49
  I really, I really do enjoy it and I really hope it it does
• 1:54
  well. Oh yeah, I especially with you
• 1:56
  guys and you know, the, I think that's what we're looking for in
• 2:01
  the world is more realness and we're we're surrounded by so
• 2:05
  many fake things and just this, you know, facade of a person.
• 2:10
  Yeah, people follow that. I think a lot of the people in
• 2:15
  the world now want to hear from normal people, you know?
• 2:19
  Yeah, well, if you look at, I feel like when I was a kid, you
• 2:24
  look at shows, a lot of the shows were of like middle class,
• 2:31
  ordinary people. Oh yeah.
• 2:33
  You know, like American Gladiator.
• 2:36
  You didn't see any celebrities on there.
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  No, you know, or like just all the game shows, it was all just
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  regular people. Now they're just shoving like
• 2:45
  famous people and like everything, you know?
• 2:48
  Well, you'd watch, I'm going to age myself.
• 2:50
  Family matters, you know, and it's just the normal American
• 2:55
  family. And that's what you had to look
• 2:58
  up to as a kid. You're like, oh, that's so cool.
• 3:00
  You know, these great people. And now you're like looking
• 3:04
  these young kids are looking up to the dude that has a
• 3:08
  Lamborghini or, you know, yeah. Also all like the big
• 3:11
  influencers on. Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 3:13
  There's no social media. It's not realistic.
• 3:15
  It's, you know, it's there's no value there other than monetary.
• 3:19
  Yeah. When when my daughter Hayden,
• 3:22
  she was like, I don't know, 5th, 6th grade ish, maybe a little
• 3:27
  bit younger, you know, she was really into like the Charlie
• 3:32
  Demilio, you know, and they would have like, or, or she was
• 3:36
  into like the YouTube channels where like the families would
• 3:40
  record themselves doing stuff and it's always something cool,
• 3:43
  right? They're always doing something
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  cool, something nice. And there's a lot of times where
• 3:49
  I would have to be like, hey, then just remember that is not
• 3:52
  real life. Oh yeah, that's not real.
• 3:54
  Yeah. It may look real, but it's not
• 3:57
  real. Yeah, you're sitting there and
• 3:58
  your kids are like, we're bored. Yeah.
• 4:00
  Can we build a, a $10,000 water park in our backyard right this
• 4:05
  weekend? Yeah.
• 4:06
  Oh, sure. You know, yeah.
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  It's it's just crazy. And then, you know, they ruin
• 4:12
  Christmas because you have those kids that just open toys on
• 4:15
  their YouTube channel. Oh.
• 4:17
  Gosh, yeah. And you're like, oh, OK.
• 4:19
  Yeah, well, I guess we we got to step it up.
• 4:22
  Yeah. I know, right?
• 4:24
  Dude, I don't know how many toys my kids have, man.
• 4:27
  Oh, I it's, it's crazy. I could take a shovel and just
• 4:31
  clean up their rooms. Yeah.
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  Yeah. So where, where did you grow up
• 4:37
  at? I grew up in Peoria, AZ.
• 4:40
  Peoria. Yeah.
• 4:41
  You did go to Peoria High School did go to Peoria.
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  I already talked about that. It was a long time.
• 4:45
  After you did, but I did go there.
• 4:47
  Long time after, yeah. Not, no, not really.
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  What year did you graduate? 05.
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  Oh, OK, I. Think you're older?
• 4:56
  No, I'm. Just kidding, God.
• 4:57
  Damn dude. I mean I could be shoot, I got
• 5:00
  always Gray hair man. I was looking at videos the
• 5:03
  other day of me when I went to Indiana and I barely had any
• 5:07
  Gray hairs and now I'm just like oh Dang dude.
• 5:10
  Yeah, no, I mean quick. I keep my hair really short for
• 5:14
  a reason. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Except, you know, my wife will
• 5:18
  look at me and she's like, what's that?
• 5:19
  I'm like don't, don't look at me like that please.
• 5:22
  No, go to a different angle. Yeah, No, Peoria was good.
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  I love Peoria. You know, it was a, it was a
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  cool school. Very diverse.
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  Yeah, super diverse. It seemed like everybody got
• 5:35
  along though. You know, we, you know, I, I
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  mean, I'm sure everybody's high school experience is different,
• 5:43
  you know, based on your perspective.
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  But for the most part, you know, there wasn't a lot of issues, at
• 5:49
  least in the groups I ran when we hung out with everyone.
• 5:53
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, same here. Same here.
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  So this is your, this is your company.
• 6:00
  Yes, right here. Yeah, right.
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  Thorman Land Management. So tell us a little bit about
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  that. So basically what we do, we have
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  a few different sides to the business and I always hate
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  explaining it to people because you know, different sides kind
• 6:16
  of coexist together. So, you know, because when you
• 6:20
  get in the world of landscape and plant related things and
• 6:23
  irrigation, it all kind of goes together, whether it's
• 6:25
  commercial agriculture or residential.
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  So, but for our residential side, we do a lot of hardscape
• 6:32
  installs, you know, artificial turf, just, you know, if
• 6:36
  somebody bought a new house and wants to this, you know, bad ass
• 6:40
  backyard, yeah, you know, we'll do it.
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  And that's called. Hardscape.
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  Hardscape, yeah. So basically, you know, your
• 6:47
  pavers, your oh got, you know, all that kind of stuff where and
• 6:51
  you know, but we'll do brand new installs, we'll do irrigation
• 6:54
  repairs and things like that. We've got small irrigation and
• 6:58
  then like you go into the city of Phoenix or, you know, things
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  like that, there's big irrigation where they flood
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  their lots and things like that. So, and then the commercial side
• 7:07
  of the business, we do a lot of work for, you know, other
• 7:11
  businesses, multi family housing, you know, doing
• 7:16
  installs, fixing things that break.
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  I, I mean, we do asphalt repairs.
• 7:22
  We go in and grade empty lots, you know, for the, the delivery
• 7:27
  trucks to go through, you name it.
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  And then on the ag side, which I do a lot with my, my buddy, we
• 7:34
  just, you know, can be anything from flood irrigation to
• 7:38
  chemical application to running a tractor every day.
• 7:40
  So. OK.
• 7:41
  And when did you start this business?
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  A couple years ago. Couple years ago.
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  It's fairly new. I mean, yeah, yeah.
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  But loving every minute. Are you busy?
• 7:52
  Yeah, it it comes and goes, you know, especially with with any
• 7:55
  new business, you know, some days you're sitting there going
• 8:00
  yeah, but and then other days you're like, how am I going to
• 8:03
  get all this done? Why?
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  Why? Like why did you start this?
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  Well, I think with anything, I just got tired of doing work for
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  other people. You know, I, I spent my entire
• 8:21
  of my life just working and I was always very motivated to
• 8:27
  work. I'd put in long hours.
• 8:31
  You know, you can ask my wife. I was gone from, you know, sun
• 8:35
  up to sundown and I'm like, finally you hit a point where
• 8:39
  you're like, I should just do this for myself, You know,
• 8:42
  you're, you're making money for other people and you you'd
• 8:47
  rather do it for yourself, make money for yourself, you know,
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  and I, I kind of marched to my my own drum, you know, So like,
• 8:59
  it's nice to be able to make those decisions on my own, you
• 9:02
  know, that make or break the company rather than sitting
• 9:05
  there going, I don't agree with you, you know.
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  Now, when you said you were working with other people, were
• 9:14
  you doing this type of work? Were you doing something
• 9:16
  different? Well, so I kind of started out
• 9:18
  in in the ag side from a very young age, you know, doing
• 9:23
  anything from, you know, hey, work to just overall farm work.
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  I mean, we were young so we probably threw more rocks at
• 9:32
  each other than actually did any work.
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  But I kind of fell in love with that because I was in FFA in
• 9:37
  high school and it just translated over.
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  And, you know, our FFA program was generally AG related, but we
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  had a lot of the landscape side because we were more of a city
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  chapter. Yeah.
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  So we had, you know, golf course management, greenhouse
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  management, etcetera. And so that kind of transitioned
• 9:57
  into a landscape career. So I I went, I had a period, you
• 10:01
  know, I got married really young, we had kids.
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  And so I did all these like different jobs.
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  And so they weren't always landscape related.
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  But finally when I went full time landscape, I did operations
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  for a fairly large company and it was really cool.
• 10:20
  You know, they, they took care of me.
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  We had I had 75 to 100 guys depending on.
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  Oh damn. You know, the season of the
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  company and. Is it like landscaping?
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  Like just going to a house. You know.
• 10:37
  Bushes or actual like laying down, like the hardscape and
• 10:40
  like. You talked about it was
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  everything, everything. It was more of a commercial
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  business though, so nothing residential, which it was kind
• 10:48
  of nice because you know, you'd have 120 locations of that you
• 10:53
  do for somebody and you had one person answer to where
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  residential you do 120 houses, you have 120 bosses, you know,
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  so I went and did that and I was always just kind of following
• 11:07
  the money, you know, growing family, you want to take care of
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  your family. So you're just like, OK, so my
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  last stop before I started the business was more of like the
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  corporate side of things. They brought me in and it was
• 11:25
  really hard for me. I can't sit at a desk.
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  Yeah, I. Were you able to learn something
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  from that though? Yeah, I didn't hang out there
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  very long just because I I just couldn't.
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  You know, people bring you into their business for a reason.
• 11:42
  Yeah. And if they don't want to change
• 11:47
  things, you know, they say they want to change something.
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  And if they don't actually follow through with it, why are
• 11:53
  you there? Yeah.
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  And that's kind of how I felt. I was just like, gotcha, It's
• 11:57
  time to go. Yeah.
• 11:58
  You know. Now starting your business like
• 12:01
  how? How is that process from like
• 12:03
  day one? Like waking up and saying all
• 12:05
  right this is what I got to do? Well, so when I left, it was
• 12:10
  kind of like an oh shit moment like that.
• 12:13
  So you didn't have a you, You weren't getting things prepared
• 12:15
  when you left? I did, but you know, you're
• 12:19
  never as prepared as you want to be.
• 12:23
  I could have done it a lot different and I I probably
• 12:26
  should have, but you know, we're not always going to do what we
• 12:31
  should have done, right? So I wasn't, not to say I didn't
• 12:35
  have work lined up, but you know, I didn't have work lined
• 12:39
  up the next day. And so it kind of gave me that
• 12:42
  time to think and go, oh, shit, am I doing the right thing?
• 12:47
  You know what's going to happen? And so I was kind of sitting
• 12:51
  there thinking, and I'm like, OK, you're confident, right?
• 12:55
  Are you sure you're confident? And I remember I, I got a phone
• 13:00
  call and it was like a Texas number.
• 13:04
  And I'm like, no, I'm not answering this because we get
• 13:07
  spam calls all day and I didn't answer it.
• 13:11
  So they called back immediately. All right, fine.
• 13:16
  So he calls and and he goes, hey, this is Jacob from Diamond
• 13:22
  Sea Trailers. I'm like, OK.
• 13:26
  And then it clicked and I'm like, I was sitting in a meeting
• 13:29
  one day and I entered to win a a dump trailer online.
• 13:34
  And he's like, yeah, you won the trailer.
• 13:37
  And I'm like, Oh my God. Oh, this was after.
• 13:40
  You the day, the day after I was done.
• 13:43
  No way. And I called my wife, probably
• 13:46
  more emotional than I'll admit, you know, and I'm like, wow, I,
• 13:50
  I think God put that in front of me.
• 13:52
  He's like, OK, I'm going to give you the tools that you need to
• 13:55
  do what you need to do. So I, I got in my truck, drove
• 14:00
  18 hours one way to Texas, sleeping in gas station parking
• 14:03
  lots. Yeah, when got it had my first
• 14:07
  really awkward moment on camera. They're like, oh, tell us about
• 14:10
  what do you like about the trailer?
• 14:13
  Yeah, I, I I don't know what to do with my hands.
• 14:15
  So miserable. That's why I was like, when you
• 14:18
  asked me to do this, it was like, all right, maybe you can,
• 14:21
  you know, up upgrade your filming career, you know, But
• 14:25
  yeah, so it's definitely been a trip.
• 14:31
  It's it's we're constantly growing.
• 14:35
  I'm my own worst enemy, you know, you with ADHD and sitting
• 14:40
  there and like, like I said, the worst part for me is the
• 14:44
  computer stuff. Yeah.
• 14:46
  So my wife really helps, kind of basically tells me to get my
• 14:51
  shit together because I'd rather be out with a shovel in my hand
• 14:53
  or running equipment. Yeah, doing all the heavy work.
• 14:56
  Yeah. So like when you when you when
• 15:02
  you left, was it like did you just immediately start at LLC?
• 15:07
  Yeah. Did you guys like, did you have
• 15:10
  your own funding? Or did you?
• 15:12
  So I started, I had an LLC and as far as funding, no, we didn't
• 15:18
  have. We were not prepared.
• 15:21
  You know, I, I didn't want to go out and take a bunch of loans.
• 15:25
  Yeah, because, you know, as as confident as you are, you're
• 15:28
  still never 100%. I wish I was that guy.
• 15:31
  I know there's a lot of people out there, but that just, you
• 15:35
  know, you have 4 kids and a wife and you're like, I'm not going
• 15:37
  to put all my eggs in that basket because if I don't do
• 15:42
  well then they suffer, you know? And so basically I'm like, I've
• 15:47
  got to figure out a way to start this business with little to
• 15:52
  nothing. And so it was go out, sell
• 15:57
  yourself, sell your product, your service.
• 16:00
  Were you just going to different like construction sites or was
• 16:04
  it how, how do you sell yourself in this type of?
• 16:06
  Luckily for me, I had contacts because I've been in this
• 16:12
  business for a while, OK? So it really helped, you know,
• 16:17
  Hey, I'm doing my own thing, you know?
• 16:20
  Word of mouth, friends, you name it.
• 16:23
  Like one of my first jobs was for a guy out here, awesome guy.
• 16:28
  And he just kept throwing me work.
• 16:30
  Yeah. I mean, just, hey, you did a
• 16:32
  good job here. I mean, I trimmed his citrus
• 16:36
  orchard and hauled it all away. And he's like, oh, that great
• 16:41
  job. And then I ended up laying over
• 16:44
  a mile a pipe on his ranch, you know?
• 16:47
  And then he still calls me like every six months or something,
• 16:51
  you know, so having the contacts, having the friends,
• 16:55
  the word of mouth really kind of helped put it out there.
• 16:59
  And you know, I charge a deposit.
• 17:02
  So that helped me kind of move things along like, you know, I
• 17:07
  didn't need all that capital or these account credit accounts
• 17:10
  everywhere, things like that. And then, you know, it takes a
• 17:15
  village if you know, you can go at it alone.
• 17:19
  But if you have people willing to help you, you know, because
• 17:24
  you helped them them in the past or you just have really good
• 17:27
  friends. Like they'd loan me equipment.
• 17:29
  Yeah. You know, they'd any.
• 17:32
  Hey, what do you need? Who are they?
• 17:33
  Because I might need some some equipment.
• 17:35
  Oh, I put. That out there?
• 17:38
  They want to divulge my source, you know.
• 17:41
  So you say there's like 3 aspects to to your business,
• 17:45
  right? There's a commercial,
• 17:47
  residential and the ACT side. Yeah.
• 17:50
  What's more, is there one busier than the other?
• 17:53
  Commercial's super busy. Yeah, We do a lot of work from,
• 17:57
  you know, food processing to retail stores to corporate
• 18:02
  offices to multi family housing. Residential's kind of hit and
• 18:08
  miss, you know, because it's you're waiting on, you know,
• 18:12
  your neighbor to have money to do this or that.
• 18:15
  We're commercial. They're always needing something
• 18:17
  done, whether it's usually compliance related, like hey,
• 18:22
  you know, we need to change this out for this because the
• 18:25
  inspector didn't like this or. You know, something like that.
• 18:28
  And then on the AG side of it is a little bit more relaxed, a
• 18:32
  little bit easier. Yeah, I mean, nothings relaxed,
• 18:34
  you're always on fire. Well.
• 18:36
  But yeah, maybe there's a. It's the wrong words.
• 18:39
  It's a slower pace. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:41
  But. Like the, So the reason why I, I
• 18:44
  said relax is because I'm just thinking like big fields, you
• 18:47
  know, there's probably a lot less people around you.
• 18:49
  Oh yeah, and you're probably. Only dealing with somebody that
• 18:52
  probably truly understands what you're going through or what or
• 18:55
  like what you're doing, right. Yeah, for the most part, yeah.
• 18:58
  It's, it's kind of like, hey, just go out and get this done
• 19:00
  and yeah, move on, you know? Yeah, you still have to sell
• 19:03
  yourself. You still have to prove that you
• 19:05
  can do the job. Yeah, Once you're in there, you
• 19:08
  just. I mean, I noticed on like your
• 19:11
  social medias that you have been getting a little bit more
• 19:14
  residential stuff. Right, yeah, it's kind of cool
• 19:16
  because it's just fun to take something that's, you know,
• 19:22
  blank slate. Yeah.
• 19:24
  And, you know, turn it into this really badass backyard.
• 19:27
  Yeah, you know, or somebody that, you know, just bought a
• 19:30
  house and they want to tear everything out, You know, it's a
• 19:34
  lot easier to start from on a new build.
• 19:37
  Yeah, but it is pretty cool taking something that's like
• 19:40
  super dated and turning it into something cool.
• 19:43
  So yeah, no, it's. Do do a lot of residents like
• 19:47
  kind of give you the freedom or do they kind of know what's
• 19:49
  going on, like what they want? Well, a lot of people call you
• 19:54
  and have this big grand plan and then you kind of got to put it
• 19:58
  in perspective for them, like either it's cost or you know.
• 20:03
  Like, hey, this won't fit back here or this isn't going to
• 20:06
  work, you know, things like that.
• 20:09
  It's yeah, it's, it's definitely, it's different
• 20:14
  dealing with dealing on the homeowner side, but it's a lot
• 20:18
  more rewarding because they're super happy when you're done.
• 20:22
  Like you do the commercial side and they're like, oh, that's
• 20:24
  cool, thanks. We'll see you, you know, in 30
• 20:26
  days. But they're like, Oh my gosh, I
• 20:29
  can't believe this is so amazing.
• 20:30
  Yeah, it's pretty rewarding. Yeah, you did some good work.
• 20:33
  Now I was like, hey, Ryan can actually do that.
• 20:35
  Yeah. I need to do it a little more,
• 20:39
  maybe lose some L BS. On those residentials, are you,
• 20:46
  well, let me ask you this question.
• 20:48
  How many people work for you right now?
• 20:51
  On and off I've got four or five guys.
• 20:54
  Four or five guys. Sometimes it's just me.
• 20:56
  It just. Depends, just by yourself.
• 20:58
  Oh yeah, I do a lot of work by myself.
• 21:00
  Really. Yeah.
• 21:01
  It. Why is that?
• 21:03
  You know, it just depends. I don't really have any full
• 21:06
  time guys right now. They'll they'll come and work
• 21:10
  depending on their scheduling. We're in that weird stage of
• 21:14
  growth where it's like as we get more consistent, then we'll have
• 21:18
  I because I have guys that are willing to come work for me full
• 21:21
  time. It's just once we're Yeah, full
• 21:24
  schedule full. You want to make sure you have
• 21:28
  the jobs lined up. Yeah, because I mean, we have
• 21:30
  some weird situations happen like I, I've got, you know,
• 21:34
  I'll, I'll line up a job and one of our most recent jobs that got
• 21:39
  cleared that we can do it was on hold for four months for
• 21:44
  archaeological reasons. And yeah, they found pottery in
• 21:49
  the. Oh really?
• 21:50
  Yeah. Where is this at?
• 21:52
  Over off of like 20 1st St. And Oak.
• 21:56
  So like that older Phoenix neighborhood.
• 21:58
  Really. Yeah, so a lot of that area has
• 22:01
  a lot of Native American stuff in it.
• 22:05
  Like you go closer to like Papago Park, which isn't
• 22:09
  actually, if you look at it on the map, isn't very far.
• 22:12
  Some of the first irrigation ditches in Arizona are still
• 22:15
  existing in that area. No way.
• 22:17
  Yeah. So the like from the Native
• 22:19
  American. Yeah.
• 22:20
  Yeah. It's crazy how much history is
• 22:23
  still actually. Visible.
• 22:25
  Are they still being used? Or, you know, not really, but
• 22:30
  any of the ditches that you see, like I I do work in some of the
• 22:34
  older Phoenix neighborhoods and they have orchard valves and
• 22:40
  they're the original valves from when that neighborhood didn't
• 22:43
  exist and it was a citrus orchard.
• 22:45
  So all the stuff is old. Yeah.
• 22:48
  You know. What?
• 22:49
  What is that process like? So you know, you, you dig up
• 22:52
  dirt, right? Like that's, that's the whole
• 22:55
  Land Management. What is the process of your dig
• 22:58
  in and then you come into contact with archaeological find
• 23:03
  or? You report it, I mean to who you
• 23:08
  basically you call, there's certain I basically would call
• 23:13
  like a university or something like that and get more.
• 23:17
  I haven't personally run across it, so I'm sure there's a
• 23:19
  process that I should know about, but generally I'd
• 23:23
  probably just call ASU or and be like hey.
• 23:27
  Come check it out. You guys should deal with this,
• 23:30
  you know, 'cause you know, you're prepared for a gas line
• 23:35
  or electric or, you know, any utility because you called the
• 23:38
  811 before you dig, you know, and but, yeah, I and I run
• 23:44
  across a lot of stuff while digging.
• 23:46
  It's just never been that. Yeah, you know.
• 23:50
  Damn, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah, I always, I always
• 23:53
  like wondered that like, you know, like what the whole
• 23:55
  process is. But I'm I'm I'm assuming is that
• 23:59
  is that job but where they found the pottery or whatever they
• 24:03
  found. Are you still waiting on it?
• 24:06
  No, we're cleared down. Oh, OK.
• 24:07
  But it took it. It did take about four months.
• 24:10
  Yeah. And then even when we do that
• 24:12
  job, there's going to be somebody on site to observe the
• 24:15
  job. Gotcha.
• 24:16
  Make sure that you know if you see something, say something
• 24:19
  kind of. Deal.
• 24:20
  Yeah, Yeah. I could only imagine doing that.
• 24:23
  Oh yeah. How many people have dug stuff
• 24:25
  up? That'll probably take it or.
• 24:27
  Yeah, and see everything like, I mean, it really stinks on our
• 24:31
  end because it's like, oh, what's going on?
• 24:33
  Hold for another four months. But yeah, that's somebody's
• 24:35
  culture, you know? Yeah, you're or, you know, God
• 24:39
  forbid you find bones, you're like.
• 24:41
  What is that? Yeah.
• 24:43
  So I just think you have a moral obligation to to deal with that
• 24:47
  in the right the right way. Yeah.
• 24:49
  Is it for being like a business owner and like what you do?
• 24:53
  Is it? Is it?
• 24:54
  Is it hard to find good work? Not really, no.
• 24:58
  I think the biggest issue people have is they won't answer their
• 25:02
  phone. You know, I, I talked to a ton
• 25:06
  of people and they'll make a comment like, oh, the last guy
• 25:10
  just never showed up, or he never sent me a bid or he just
• 25:15
  didn't answer the phone in general.
• 25:17
  Yeah, you know, and so I think that's a huge issue.
• 25:22
  I, you know, and I don't know why people do that.
• 25:25
  Yeah. And I'm sure I have my moments
• 25:27
  where I'm not as quick on the draw as I should be, but I still
• 25:33
  call him back, you know, I'll still follow through.
• 25:36
  And because otherwise, what are you doing?
• 25:39
  You're not going to get the job. Yeah.
• 25:40
  You know, so it's it's a big it's it's different do.
• 25:45
  You have any like young kids that work with you?
• 25:48
  I do. I've got a guy who's, well, I
• 25:52
  mean, I guess he's not super young, but compared to me, he's
• 25:56
  younger, real go getter, you know, good on equipment.
• 26:01
  And that's the hard. That's why I push so hard for
• 26:05
  these kids to, you know, if you don't want to go to college, go
• 26:08
  to a vocational school because there's always somebody looking
• 26:11
  for. I feel like that was that was
• 26:15
  out there when like when me and you were going to school.
• 26:17
  Oh yeah. You know, I don't, I don't know
• 26:19
  how Peoria is now, but I know they have like auto AG building
• 26:23
  trades, you know all. Sorts of stuff.
• 26:25
  Yeah, it it's an awesome program and you know, I think they don't
• 26:31
  fund it as much as they should. Yeah, You know, because you talk
• 26:34
  to anybody and I've got friends from every industry and I'm sure
• 26:38
  you guys experienced this in your, you know, being alignment.
• 26:42
  Finding people is hard. Finding anyone willing to work
• 26:47
  that you know, just because everybody wants to be an
• 26:50
  influencer or I don't know, sell Amway or you know, like they
• 26:54
  want the easy the easy button you.
• 26:58
  Know, yeah, that that's why I asked you if it was, if it was
• 27:01
  hard to find work, you know, because I mean, just these
• 27:05
  generations that are coming up like I, I did listen to a
• 27:11
  podcast like, you know, a few weeks ago and I guess the, the
• 27:16
  younger kids, like in high school now they are starting to
• 27:19
  venture off into the trades. But it's not.
• 27:21
  But it's not enough to cover whatever we're going to be
• 27:26
  losing here in like the next 10-15 years.
• 27:29
  No, I, I think it's, it's crazy. I mean, and they're even
• 27:33
  experienced experiencing that with like law enforcement.
• 27:37
  Fire department like. All the the old guard, if you
• 27:40
  will, is retiring and. Yeah.
• 27:43
  You know, yeah, I know some firefighters and they said that
• 27:48
  like in like the last year they had like 6 firefighters leave
• 27:52
  their, you know, quick. Yeah.
• 27:54
  You know, it's just like damn. Yeah.
• 27:56
  And what's crazy is I remember, I remember when I graduated or
• 28:02
  no, when I came out of the Navy, you know, I was trying to pursue
• 28:05
  the whole fire department thing or be like a firefighter.
• 28:08
  And man, just applying for Phoenix 6000, people would put
• 28:16
  their application in and then only 1200 to take the test.
• 28:20
  And now that 1200, then you only have like 600 to interview.
• 28:24
  Like it was a lot. Now I went when I'm working in
• 28:28
  Phoenix, I look at firefighters and or I'm I'm that, I'm sorry,
• 28:34
  fire trucks. And you see that they're
• 28:37
  advertising their job. Yeah.
• 28:40
  You know, I mean, like you'd never seen that before.
• 28:43
  No, you would never see a billboard of Phoenix Fire, you
• 28:46
  know, hiring and all that. Yeah, because you see, you used
• 28:49
  to see fire guys and you're like, how long did it take you
• 28:51
  to get on? Yeah, you know, so on.
• 28:53
  Oh, you know, my dad's friend, it took him, you know, I think
• 28:58
  it was close to 10 years to get on.
• 29:01
  Yeah, that was like back in the day too, right?
• 29:03
  Yeah. Damn.
• 29:04
  And now you look and they look like your kids age.
• 29:07
  Yeah. You're like, wow, that was a
• 29:09
  short process, right, wasn't it? Yeah, you know.
• 29:12
  Yeah, that's that. I feel like being a business
• 29:16
  owner, that would probably be the most challenging.
• 29:18
  Yeah. I feel like it's just finding
• 29:20
  good work. Yeah, you know, good people.
• 29:22
  Now, when it comes to like you work for a company, do you ever
• 29:27
  get that itch to like, go out and do your own thing?
• 29:30
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. I always, I've always wanted to
• 29:34
  like to like start something or to have something of my own.
• 29:38
  But I one, it's like I, I don't know what I'm doing right and I
• 29:45
  don't know what to do right. Like I don't know, like there
• 29:49
  was like one point where I did want to like help my
• 29:53
  father-in-law with his painting business and stuff.
• 29:56
  But even then it's like he like let me help him a little bit.
• 30:02
  And I ended up like getting, I talked to like my cousin's
• 30:07
  boyfriend or whatever, and he worked for this city and we
• 30:10
  ended up like getting this big apartment job.
• 30:14
  But I, I think because I bid it like way too low.
• 30:17
  And so, you know, me being young, I was like really excited
• 30:21
  to go do it. And, you know, him, him like
• 30:24
  being in the business for so long, he's just like, now we're
• 30:27
  not going to do that. Yeah.
• 30:28
  You know. Well, what's your like?
• 30:30
  What would be your biggest motivation for change?
• 30:33
  Because I love asking people that like why did you know?
• 30:36
  Why would you want to start your own thing?
• 30:39
  For me, yeah, just just to, I don't know, just to build
• 30:44
  something, you know, just just to have that challenge of like
• 30:46
  building something and then like.
• 30:48
  Ownership. Yeah, sense of ownership.
• 30:49
  And then kind of what, like Nate has said before, is like leaving
• 30:53
  that legacy to your kids, you know, like, I think that would
• 30:56
  be really cool. Is like to build something and
• 30:57
  be like, all right, you know, who wants to like, take it over?
• 31:01
  Yeah, you know. Yeah.
• 31:02
  Well, it's definitely, you know, that legacy is really important.
• 31:07
  I think, you know, even if your kids don't want to take over
• 31:11
  your business, it's still an opportunity.
• 31:14
  Like, I know a lot of guys that build businesses just to sell
• 31:16
  them, you know, so they're building that generational
• 31:19
  wealth and, you know, 'cause, you know, I didn't have a lot of
• 31:23
  money growing up, you know, So it'd be nice to pass on
• 31:28
  something, you know, that help that you can give your kids.
• 31:31
  So they're not sitting there going, well, I wish I had the
• 31:34
  money to do this or that or, you know, buy their first house or,
• 31:37
  you know, things like that, that are a really big deal that you
• 31:41
  strive for 'cause I mean, it's hard to buy a house now.
• 31:44
  Oh dude, it's crazy. It's.
• 31:46
  It's like I've got a younger sister where I'm like, I don't
• 31:50
  know how you can survive working, you know, not a lower
• 31:57
  level job, but you know, as an entry level worker and live on
• 32:02
  your own, you know, it's almost impossible, you know, so and
• 32:07
  that's where I think a lot of people do try to hustle now to,
• 32:11
  you know, get to that level to where you can afford.
• 32:14
  Anything. And I know like we, we, we were
• 32:17
  kind of knocking on the whole influenced influencer thing, but
• 32:20
  that's another way that people can bring in income for
• 32:25
  themselves. Oh yeah, You know, it's just
• 32:26
  kind of putting their lives out there.
• 32:28
  Yeah. And if you're good at, I mean,
• 32:30
  you know, maybe, maybe I knock it because that's just wasn't,
• 32:33
  that's not my Forte. Yeah.
• 32:35
  You know, you got to do what you got to do.
• 32:37
  Yeah. You're like a, you're like, you
• 32:39
  know, a big guy, you know? Yeah.
• 32:42
  You like to get your hands dirty?
• 32:44
  My hands dirty. Get down in there so I can hold
• 32:46
  a micro fiber rag without it falling off.
• 32:50
  You know You've never done that. No.
• 32:52
  Pick up a micro fiber towel and if your hands are rough enough
• 32:55
  you can hold it upside down. It won't fall off.
• 32:59
  Damn, you know. I I don't think I could do that.
• 33:02
  No. I have to wear gloves.
• 33:03
  I have to wear gloves too. See, I don't like hiring people
• 33:06
  to wear gloves. Why?
• 33:07
  Because it takes them too long to put them on and take them
• 33:09
  off. What?
• 33:11
  Yeah, they're sitting there like.
• 33:13
  Well, it kind of depends on what kind of glove it is though,
• 33:15
  right? I guess because like I can't
• 33:18
  did, I can get my gloves on real quick.
• 33:20
  Really. Yeah, OK.
• 33:21
  Yeah, I'm pretty good at it. Yeah, I could take them off real
• 33:24
  fast too. Yeah, I'm just kidding.
• 33:26
  I'm not that much of a hard ass. What like, well, what is it
• 33:30
  about an employee? Like what would be like your
• 33:32
  perfect employee obviously showing up on time, but.
• 33:35
  Yeah, I mean, dude, showing UPS half the battle, like when we
• 33:38
  had the big company that I, I worked for and, you know, I had
• 33:42
  all those guys every morning, you know, be 4:30 in the morning
• 33:46
  at the yard, you're sitting there like, who's not going to
• 33:49
  show up today? And you didn't really get the
• 33:51
  pick, but who's coming in or not, right?
• 33:53
  Like, were you part of that, the hiring process?
• 33:56
  Yeah. I so at that company, I was part
• 33:57
  of everything. Yeah, I kind of just, I had a
• 34:01
  lot on my plate. So everything from hiring to
• 34:05
  firing to you name it, you know, talking to customers in the
• 34:08
  field and checking up on guys. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:12
  They knew what my truck looked like.
• 34:14
  And, you know, I had to deal with them in the yard every
• 34:17
  morning. And we had some interesting
• 34:20
  stories. And does that kind of help you
• 34:23
  like in today like reading people and.
• 34:25
  Oh yeah. You can generally tell from the
• 34:28
  first couple minutes of an interview how somebody's going
• 34:32
  to be, you know, you'd one whether they show up on time to
• 34:36
  the interview, you know, how they're dressed at what you
• 34:40
  know, and you can't. I'm not expecting this amazing
• 34:43
  person, you know, that's like, you know, some people are just
• 34:47
  looking for a job they needed, you know, they haven't had the
• 34:50
  best of luck. You know, they're in between
• 34:53
  jobs or circumstance made them change their jobs.
• 34:56
  So, you know, you grade on a curve a little bit, but you can
• 34:59
  generally tell how somebody's going to work, you know, whether
• 35:03
  they're polite because a lot of these guys, they're in.
• 35:06
  I always used to tell my guys, you're the best advertising that
• 35:09
  we have as a company. You know, you can't, you can put
• 35:14
  ads on Facebook. You know, you can go out and
• 35:16
  knock on doors. But when someone drives by and
• 35:20
  sees your guys sharp squared away doing work, not just
• 35:24
  sitting on the site, I mean, I can't count how many times I've
• 35:27
  pulled up on a property and it looks like it's lunchtime all
• 35:32
  the time. Yeah.
• 35:33
  You know, And so I used to tell the guys I'm like, you're our
• 35:36
  best advertising. The better you do on that job
• 35:40
  site is, the better we do. Yeah.
• 35:42
  You know, client, potential clients see you.
• 35:44
  Our current clients see you. They're seeing the value of the
• 35:47
  dollar that they're paying, you know, And so if you can, I
• 35:51
  always told them, think like an owner, you know, you provide
• 35:55
  value. It translates to your pay.
• 35:57
  And I think as time goes on, that mentality has kind of
• 36:05
  disappeared from our workforce. Workers feel underappreciated.
• 36:10
  You know, they don't feel like the way they work will translate
• 36:15
  to anything. And it's unfortunate.
• 36:17
  That's why people job hop so much there.
• 36:19
  And, you know, one of the biggest compliments I ever
• 36:22
  received is when I left that company, I, I got text messages
• 36:27
  like, you are the best boss we ever had.
• 36:30
  And, you know, all these different things.
• 36:33
  I'm like, wow, that's cool. I made a difference, you know?
• 36:36
  Yeah. I know, I know that like being
• 36:38
  on the working side of it, right?
• 36:44
  I feel like if you're the boss and if you're just taking care
• 36:49
  of your guys, you know, like when they're, when they're
• 36:51
  calling and they say, hey, I need like, you know, a day off
• 36:54
  because of this. All right, Cool.
• 36:56
  Like don't as long as you're not making them feel bad, Like, as
• 36:58
  long as I'm not like feeling guilty for missing work.
• 37:02
  Oh, yeah. Then then I feel taken care of.
• 37:03
  You know what I mean? Or hey, I need this tool right
• 37:06
  here or I need that. All right, cool.
• 37:08
  Boom. You know, yeah.
• 37:10
  Well, and it's a matter of, you know, going out and because I
• 37:14
  was never above any job, I'd be, you know, dressed pretty nice to
• 37:18
  go talk to a customer and then come home looking like someone
• 37:22
  roughed me up in the parking lot because, you know, I'd be in a
• 37:25
  hole or I'd be out on a property, you know, granted, I
• 37:30
  mean, they do it all the time. So, you know, I'd go out and
• 37:34
  show them what's up on a property and then I'd get back
• 37:37
  in my truck and cry a little bit like, oh, man, that's rough.
• 37:40
  Because it, you know, you want to do it fast.
• 37:41
  You look good, you know, but no, I just, I always wanted to go
• 37:47
  out and do the work. And then, you know, being in
• 37:50
  that industry, we have storm damage calls and stuff.
• 37:53
  So any after hours calls or weekend calls, I'd go do it
• 37:56
  myself because I'm like these guys work their asses off all
• 37:59
  week, you know, unless it was something that I just had to
• 38:02
  have someone because I couldn't do it.
• 38:06
  But now I'd be out at 2:00 in the morning chaining trees up
• 38:10
  behind my truck, dragging them in through parking lots and
• 38:12
  stuff because I'm like, I'm not waking these guys up for that,
• 38:15
  you know? Like let let them have their
• 38:17
  time off. Yeah, but so if you show them
• 38:19
  the respect and, you know, if they ask for advice, you know,
• 38:22
  I'm not saying go out to the bar with them, You know, I think
• 38:25
  there's a good relationship of, you know, a separation.
• 38:29
  Oh yeah. Between a boss and a an
• 38:31
  employer, but or an employee, Excuse me, but just being
• 38:36
  friendly and showing that you're willing to put yourself out
• 38:40
  there. For them, kind of like beyond
• 38:42
  their levels sometimes you. Know yeah 100.
• 38:44
  Percent you also have to have that, you know, you also have to
• 38:47
  have like an arm distance a little bit.
• 38:49
  You know, yeah. Well, I mean, because you are
• 38:51
  the boss, Yeah. You know, and you have to deal
• 38:53
  with the disciplinary stuff. And that's always a a nightmare,
• 38:57
  you know, especially when you have that many people.
• 39:00
  There's always something, I mean, it was always usually on a
• 39:04
  Friday, you know, something would pop off and you're like,
• 39:07
  really? What are you going to do this?
• 39:10
  Yeah. I mean it.
• 39:12
  Anything from, you know, drinking any substance or, you
• 39:16
  know, getting in fights, you know, because you you put four
• 39:20
  guys in a truck from varying backgrounds and, you know, they
• 39:25
  all work together. It's hot.
• 39:27
  You know, someone says something just threw a rock at the
• 39:31
  Hornets. You know, Well, the good thing
• 39:33
  about like, also like men too, is you know, they, they, they
• 39:38
  could be in a fight on on a Tuesday and then come in on a
• 39:41
  Wednesday. Oh yeah?
• 39:43
  Well, I mean there's. Nothing happened.
• 39:44
  I used. To tell the guys I'm like, if
• 39:46
  you guys can't handle dealing with each other and with words
• 39:50
  in our yard, go outside and whip each other's ass and then come
• 39:53
  back to work. Yeah.
• 39:55
  You know, like, just get it over with.
• 39:56
  Yeah. You know, because all you're
• 39:57
  doing is stopping yourself from making money.
• 40:00
  Exactly. Because then you're going to get
• 40:02
  fired. Yeah.
• 40:03
  You know so. And then there's just some guys
• 40:06
  that'll work for you that you're like, well, this isn't going to
• 40:09
  be good because we had, we had one guy and really nice HR lady.
• 40:15
  She used to call me all the time.
• 40:17
  And she's like, Hey, I've got this new guy starting, you know,
• 40:22
  really nice kid. Just keep an eye on him.
• 40:26
  And so send him out on a truck and 1st day goes by and she
• 40:33
  calls me. She's like, how did he do?
• 40:36
  And I go, somebody's going to punch him in the face.
• 40:39
  And she's like, no, you're such no, you know, that doesn't
• 40:43
  happen. Yeah, that that that won't
• 40:44
  happen, you know? And so like 2 days later, she
• 40:49
  calls me. She's like, so how's he doing?
• 40:51
  I'm like somebody punched him in the face, you know?
• 40:54
  But he's all right now. Yeah, he's fine.
• 40:56
  Yeah, he's fine. They did it outside the yard, so
• 40:58
  I was like, all right, Still had to deal with it, but.
• 41:01
  So you said your your wife, she is part of the business now.
• 41:09
  Yeah, yeah. So she's, she quit her job, You
• 41:15
  know, she was driving 45 minutes one way into town because we
• 41:20
  moved back out to Buckeye. So she worked in Peoria when we
• 41:24
  lived in Peoria. So it got pretty old for her.
• 41:28
  She works. She worked with some friends and
• 41:31
  so that was really nice. They were super accommodating
• 41:34
  of, you know, kids and scheduling and things like that.
• 41:37
  But even then it's still hard when you have 4 kids,
• 41:40
  everybody's doing, you know, 4H stuff or.
• 41:43
  Yeah. Horse stuff and then just.
• 41:46
  All over the place. Scheduling, yeah.
• 41:48
  But she's, she's been my godsend.
• 41:51
  She's always lifted me up. I mean, from the time I met her,
• 41:56
  she's always pushed me like, you know.
• 41:58
  She's pretty strong if she lift you up.
• 42:00
  Oh. Dude, yeah, for a little one.
• 42:02
  She'll, she'd probably smack me around a little bit.
• 42:05
  Yeah, yeah, for. Sure what?
• 42:06
  What part does she do in in the whole?
• 42:09
  So she's more of she'll jump on the computer because like I
• 42:13
  said, I hate that more into the social media stuff because she's
• 42:18
  far more consistent. You know, I'll get home and I'm
• 42:21
  like, I don't want to post anything.
• 42:23
  I don't want to do this. You know, she's good about
• 42:26
  reminding me of things because I'm all over the place, you
• 42:30
  know? Yeah, oh, you need to do this.
• 42:33
  And I'm sure I'm really easy to deal with, you know, and
• 42:35
  probably take it really well when she's always reminding me
• 42:38
  to do that. Is that Are you being sarcastic?
• 42:40
  Oh yeah, totally, totally. But yeah, no, she's, she's been
• 42:45
  a really integral part of the business so far.
• 42:48
  And as we grow, I think because she's got a pretty decent
• 42:53
  background in like, you know, the accounting side of the
• 42:56
  business and, you know, ordering stuff.
• 42:59
  So as we grow, it's really going to kind of take a load off of
• 43:02
  me. Have you guys ever like clashed
• 43:07
  or has that happened all the time?
• 43:09
  All the time. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:10
  Like, well, so the other day, because she kind of jumped on
• 43:15
  the social, social media after I did it because I'm like, I could
• 43:18
  do anything, you know? But she's like, you need to stop
• 43:21
  posting. She's like, you're not doing it
• 43:25
  right. Like, OK, yeah, sure.
• 43:27
  Yeah. You know, And then I think
• 43:29
  things are way more funny than they are appropriate than, you
• 43:34
  know, she does. So she's like, don't post that
• 43:37
  on the company page, but it's funny.
• 43:40
  Have you guys talked about like if there's ever a disagreement
• 43:43
  in with the business like how that is going to go or?
• 43:47
  No, we, I mean, we've been married for 15 years.
• 43:51
  Excuse me, but so we're kind of used to problem solving already
• 43:57
  through our personal relationships, so I'm sure
• 44:00
  there's going to be that moment, but yeah, you guys will probably
• 44:04
  handle it. Yeah just fine.
• 44:05
  I, I don't really, because at the end of the day, she's always
• 44:09
  kind of made me the, the, the final decision.
• 44:14
  Yeah. But usually if she brings
• 44:18
  something up, there's a reason for it and I try to listen to it
• 44:22
  the best I can. Yeah.
• 44:24
  So obviously you probably do use heavy equipment, right?
• 44:29
  Correct. Yeah.
• 44:32
  And you said some people, like, like, will let you borrow their
• 44:36
  stuff. Oh, yeah.
• 44:37
  Do you own your own equipment? No.
• 44:39
  So a lot of what I do is rentals.
• 44:43
  OK. I think overhead, I'm trying to
• 44:46
  keep my overhead low. A lot of companies I worked for
• 44:51
  were very heavily saddled in debt and it's because of the
• 44:57
  equipment they bought or, you know, constantly having to
• 45:01
  repair equipment and rental equipment.
• 45:03
  It's a hit and miss. Sometimes you get something
• 45:05
  really great and you're like, oh, this is great.
• 45:06
  You know, sometimes you don't. I've literally taken a piece of
• 45:11
  equipment to a job site and it didn't work and I fixed it.
• 45:14
  Really. Yeah, I.
• 45:16
  You know, I was doing a a clean up on the side of a railroad
• 45:20
  tracks and the mower blades, it was a tractor, a mower that
• 45:26
  pulled behind a tractor and the blades were just gone.
• 45:29
  So I'm like, I cannot stop this job.
• 45:32
  Give me the blades. I will put them on your tractor.
• 45:35
  And whether that's their company policy, I'm not going to name
• 45:38
  names, but I just went and did it.
• 45:40
  So I mean, it's not the perfect situation all the time, but you
• 45:44
  know, going back to the debt part, you know, there's a lot of
• 45:47
  times where, you know, on the office side, they're like, man,
• 45:51
  payroll's coming up. This is going to be a tough one.
• 45:53
  And I'm like, I don't want to live that life.
• 45:55
  I don't want to, you know, I want to build the business based
• 45:58
  on, you know, us making money and being able to put that back
• 46:02
  into our employees and our, you know, our company, you know,
• 46:05
  afford things for our family and their families.
• 46:07
  And being heavily saddled in debt just seems like just this
• 46:12
  huge weight on your shoulders. And I know that all businesses
• 46:15
  have debt. It's just how you acquire it and
• 46:19
  utilize it. You know, if you do it the smart
• 46:21
  way, great if, but no, being completely saddled in debt just
• 46:26
  so you can have new stuff or, you know, flex that you're like,
• 46:30
  oh, I've got all this equipment. I'm good, I'll rent it.
• 46:34
  I'll I'll proudly advertise their rental company on our job
• 46:39
  sites, you know? That's awesome.
• 46:43
  I'm so you did mention that your kids do 4H yes, right, yes, I
• 46:49
  think that's awesome. Oh, I think that is probably one
• 46:53
  of the best things that kids these days can get into.
• 46:57
  It is so cool. I mean, so we were in Peoria,
• 47:02
  the kids were in school. It was, you know, my kids are
• 47:07
  country kids, so it was kind of different.
• 47:10
  You know, my kids would get made fun of.
• 47:12
  Oh, you were both school, You know, whatever.
• 47:15
  They'll pick anything out they can make fun.
• 47:16
  Yeah, kids. Kids are assholes.
• 47:19
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:20
  Like, I remember being a kid and I was.
• 47:23
  I was just like that. Oh.
• 47:24
  I was a turn, yeah, I probably, I was probably mean and snotty
• 47:28
  and all that stuff. I mean to my offense too is like
• 47:31
  my defense too. I also got made fun of a lot.
• 47:34
  Oh, you know, so. Yeah, I got made fun of.
• 47:38
  And the biggest difference now is, you know, if you got made
• 47:42
  fun of in school when we were younger, it stopped when you got
• 47:44
  home. It doesn't stop when they get
• 47:47
  home, you know. And so it is so painful seeing
• 47:50
  your kids, like feel like crap about themselves.
• 47:55
  And you're like, I can't go hit another kid, you know, but I
• 47:59
  really want to because the things they said or did, you
• 48:03
  know, it was just really rough. So when they got into 4H, it was
• 48:10
  kind of like a sanctuary for them because they were around
• 48:13
  kids that were, you know, raised pretty well like minded.
• 48:18
  You know, it was just really not in there all accepting, you
• 48:23
  know, it was, it wasn't like, oh, we're the cool kids.
• 48:26
  And then you have these like. Like what are you wearing today?
• 48:28
  Yeah, and granted, you have the like, oh, we show sheep or we
• 48:33
  show goats. We're super cool, you know, but
• 48:35
  I'm just kidding. But no, they they're everybody's
• 48:39
  super supportive, willing to help.
• 48:41
  Like, hey, this is what I do. You know, I think you should do
• 48:45
  that. You know, it's, it's just a
• 48:48
  collective and there is competition there, don't get me
• 48:51
  wrong. And it's just like with anything
• 48:53
  like it can get to a point with some people, I haven't
• 48:59
  experienced this. I think on more of like, you
• 49:01
  know, maybe back East or at a jackpot level where it gets it
• 49:06
  gets super competitive and it kind of to me would take the fun
• 49:10
  out of it, you know, where they're.
• 49:13
  Where they kind of, it's not about the kids, it's about like
• 49:15
  winning. Oh yeah, And that's my biggest
• 49:17
  thing. I'm not here for me.
• 49:19
  I'm not here to make a name for myself.
• 49:21
  I want my kids to experience the responsibility, the
• 49:24
  competitiveness, you know, in seeing a project from its
• 49:28
  infancy into like it paying off. So if there's a, if there's a
• 49:34
  parent out there that's listening to this that wants to
• 49:37
  get into that wants their kids to get into 4H, how's that
• 49:41
  process? What is it that they have to do?
• 49:44
  So the best thing I can say is find a four local 4H club.
• 49:49
  You can Google it, I'm I'm sure. And then just call them.
• 49:53
  And like I said, they're the most helpful people on the
• 49:56
  planet, so that you'll probably give you more information that
• 49:59
  you than you could ever think you'd need, you know?
• 50:04
  Now do they start off with like an animal or like?
• 50:06
  No. So they have like Clover Buds,
• 50:10
  which is basically if your kids are super young, they, you know,
• 50:14
  go and do different activities and.
• 50:16
  Things like that. There's 4H is cool because it's
• 50:21
  they've got multiple ways for kids to do different.
• 50:25
  They have a shooting sports sign of it.
• 50:29
  See, I thought it was just all raising animals.
• 50:31
  No, no, it's it's pretty cool. There's you know, I I'm not well
• 50:36
  versed in the other stuff, but you know, they have like sewing
• 50:40
  and you know, all that good stuff too.
• 50:43
  I'm more, you know, my kids show pigs.
• 50:45
  So I'm pretty that's pretty heavily saddled in our time, you
• 50:51
  know, because it takes a lot. I mean, it's not.
• 50:54
  And that's The thing is you'll quickly the first year the kids,
• 51:00
  you know, you're learning with the kids and you're going to
• 51:03
  have your frustration. I mean, you're going to have
• 51:05
  your frustrations no matter what.
• 51:07
  It's just it's a project. We had a pig die, you know, and
• 51:12
  you get to deal with outside. Yeah.
• 51:15
  You know, and it's frustrating because you put all this time
• 51:18
  and money into something and it's like, wow, that was quick.
• 51:22
  Yeah. And I mean, luckily this this
• 51:26
  pig that died was early on. You know, we've known people
• 51:30
  that had their pig die like right before County Fair.
• 51:33
  No way. Oh yeah.
• 51:35
  And you're like, wow. So what's the process of the
• 51:38
  animal coming in to this phorase?
• 51:41
  So like, do you get it? So let's just say for pigs, do
• 51:45
  you get it as a piglet? Oh yeah, well, I mean, yeah,
• 51:48
  they're, they're fairly new, you know, they're still on Mama for
• 51:51
  a while. So you'll get them, you know,
• 51:54
  once they're weaned off and then you just basically start from
• 51:58
  scratch. And luckily, we have a good
• 52:02
  friend of ours that was super helpful as far as like feeding
• 52:05
  and things like that, because I never had pigs.
• 52:08
  You know, there's so many different things that you need
• 52:11
  to do to give them different fat and protein percentages.
• 52:15
  And you're saying, oh, this is a lot?
• 52:17
  Really. Yeah.
• 52:18
  So it's there's some science behind it.
• 52:20
  What's the What's the judging like?
• 52:24
  It's not consistent. That's the biggest thing is in
• 52:29
  the hardest thing for the kids is you'll have judges that like
• 52:33
  certain things and some do not. And so you there's no perfect
• 52:40
  way to raise a pig or show a pig because it's very opinion based.
• 52:47
  You know, like there's a judge at the last fair or No2 fairs
• 52:53
  ago, he was like, I don't like when the kids have a brush in
• 52:56
  their hand in the ring, you know, and this was part of the
• 52:59
  showmanship side of it. And so I always tell the kids
• 53:04
  I'm like, go listen to what that judge has to say.
• 53:06
  So. Will the judge come and talk to
• 53:10
  everybody or? They'll talk well, so they'll
• 53:12
  talk to the kids sometimes, but a lot of the time if you're
• 53:19
  watching the other classes before you go, you can see what
• 53:22
  they like, what they don't. Oh, gotcha.
• 53:24
  And so they'll be, like I said, with that brush.
• 53:27
  I watch my daughter and she like, I don't know where the
• 53:29
  brush went, whether she threw it somewhere, you know, put her in
• 53:33
  a pocket. But she cued in on that.
• 53:37
  And I think it helped her like, oh, she doesn't have it.
• 53:40
  Everybody else does. That's so crazy.
• 53:43
  And and then you'll have certain people that like a certain
• 53:47
  structure of a hog and there's nothing you can do about it.
• 53:50
  You can't change a hog how a hog looks.
• 53:52
  Yeah, the day of. I mean you can you can do a
• 53:56
  little bit, but not not enough to really sway anything.
• 54:00
  So, and how many? Are all four year kids doing it?
• 54:04
  Yeah, well, so the for this coming County Fair, all four
• 54:10
  kids are going to do it. Are they?
• 54:12
  All doing pigs. Or yeah, yeah, we're all doing
• 54:15
  pigs. Yeah, they like it.
• 54:17
  I mean, pigs are an interesting animal to have.
• 54:21
  You know, they're not as controllable because, you know,
• 54:24
  like with sheep, cattle, goats, you, you know, you have the
• 54:28
  ability to control them a little bit where a pig will take your,
• 54:31
  your ass out. Yeah.
• 54:33
  You know, like we had Maddie, my oldest, she was showing at this
• 54:38
  last County Fair and this pig did not care to be there.
• 54:42
  Almost took out like all their AV equipment because it was
• 54:45
  pushing the panels and she was doing so well.
• 54:49
  Yeah. And it just because they have
• 54:51
  to. Bring like they have to bring
• 54:52
  the kid or the pigs into the little arena, right?
• 54:55
  And they got a kind of control on you.
• 54:57
  Know direct in one way or another.
• 54:59
  And this one's like, no, I'm going outside whether you like
• 55:02
  it or not. And she there was a there's a
• 55:05
  contest or called pride of county.
• 55:08
  And so it's for county raised pigs and who's the best looking
• 55:12
  pig. And you can tell this judge just
• 55:14
  loved her pig. And because he was, he looked
• 55:17
  like a like a leopard, which is not really common.
• 55:21
  He had a really good structure, like, you know, just wide and
• 55:24
  just looked really good. He was watching this pig, like,
• 55:28
  almost stalling the show. But this pig will not walk.
• 55:32
  So if this pig would have walked 10 feet, she would have won.
• 55:34
  What? Yeah.
• 55:35
  But no pig stood in the corner was like basically trying to
• 55:39
  push its way out. And she just couldn't get them,
• 55:41
  no. No, because they're.
• 55:43
  They when when your kids are handling the pigs, are they
• 55:47
  trying to teach them to do all this or?
• 55:49
  Yeah, and, and for the most part it you know, they do pretty
• 55:53
  well, but it's an animal. They.
• 55:56
  Yeah, you know, everything, You know, just like when we got get
• 56:00
  on a horse, nothing's guaranteed.
• 56:02
  Yeah, You know, you don't as much as good of a rider as you
• 56:06
  are. You just something could happen.
• 56:08
  Just never know. Yeah, I know that's like one of
• 56:11
  the scariest things, like me getting into horses and stuff
• 56:13
  like that. I just always thought you could
• 56:17
  get on any horse and you could just go ride, you know, just
• 56:21
  like what you see on the movies, you know?
• 56:22
  It's like, damn, I could do that.
• 56:23
  Yeah. You know, But being into it and
• 56:26
  having people that have been in it their their whole lives and
• 56:30
  just figuring all that stuff out, there's a lot, man.
• 56:33
  Oh yeah. There's a lot and there's
• 56:34
  there's just like with, like we said with the pig judging,
• 56:38
  there's so many opinions. Oh dude, oh man.
• 56:41
  There's if you do something, there's going to be one person
• 56:46
  telling you you're doing it right and 20 people are telling
• 56:48
  you're doing it wrong, you know, and that's when I started
• 56:51
  writing because I was, you know, I didn't ride my whole life like
• 56:55
  you, you know, where you just, you jump in and you figure it
• 56:58
  out. And so I told myself, I'm like,
• 57:01
  if I'm going to do this, I'm going to put my, set my ego
• 57:04
  aside. Oh, yeah.
• 57:05
  Figure it out. Yeah.
• 57:06
  And that's hard to do. You know, it's hard to sit there
• 57:10
  and just go. I don't.
• 57:12
  Know it is especially like for me because I watch a lot of
• 57:15
  YouTube videos man, you know and I'll be like watching this guy
• 57:19
  doing it and then for example, like Logan, right.
• 57:23
  So I use Logan a lot, you know, and he'll tell me something else
• 57:27
  and my wife, my my wife will tell you like if I have
• 57:31
  something in my mind that I, you know, think is right, right.
• 57:34
  It's hard for me to see the other point of view, you know,
• 57:38
  So like, to your point is like, I have to do that.
• 57:42
  Like I have to shut it down and just listen to who's ever there.
• 57:45
  Yeah, You know, and depending on your teacher, it makes it even
• 57:48
  harder, you know? Yeah.
• 57:49
  It's just, you know, Ty Schaefer, he's one of those guys
• 57:54
  that, you know, kind of when I first started writing, you know,
• 57:59
  'cause you, you got your buddies, they'll they'll tell
• 58:02
  you a lot and you're just like, you got almost get overwhelmed.
• 58:05
  But he kind of took me a sightings, like, just do this.
• 58:08
  Here's one thing you need to concentrate on.
• 58:10
  Yeah, I was like, that's what I need, 'cause when I first
• 58:13
  started I had like 10 people telling me what to do and I'm
• 58:18
  just like, I can't, I'm already overwhelmed.
• 58:20
  I'm terrified. You're on, you know, fucking big
• 58:23
  ass animal that has his own brain, as bad ass as I think I
• 58:27
  am. Like, dude, the biggest reality
• 58:30
  check I had. So I got, I got over the fear of
• 58:32
  riding, you know, in the arena. And I was just like, OK, you
• 58:38
  know, because you ride when you're a kid a little bit and
• 58:40
  you're like, they're usually on a.
• 58:42
  Broken ass horse like a trail ride.
• 58:44
  Yeah, well, no, not even that. You know, you just ride around
• 58:47
  an arena on a broke horse. You're like, OK, I'm a cowboy.
• 58:50
  Yeah. But you, the hardest thing for
• 58:54
  me was I got over the arena fair and then I had my first trail
• 58:59
  ride. I'm like, oh, this will be cool,
• 59:01
  you know, And I never really gone up and down anything.
• 59:08
  And so we get maybe, you know, 500 yards in and we go down in
• 59:14
  our first like wash and I'm like, oh shit.
• 59:18
  Like I feel so unstable. I'm terrified.
• 59:21
  I need to like I had this internal dialogue like don't
• 59:27
  turn back, but I know you really want to because you're scared.
• 59:31
  And then this 10 year old girl rides by me like with one hand
• 59:35
  and she's just like kind of looks at me and I'm like, you
• 59:37
  need to get your shit together, right?
• 59:39
  Like if this little girl is not scared, you need to get your
• 59:44
  life together. You need to do better.
• 59:46
  Yeah. And so, you know, being on that
• 59:48
  trail ride, I had guys around me, they're like, hey, do this,
• 59:52
  do that. And once I did that and it was
• 59:55
  what's funny is it's these stupid small things that you
• 59:59
  can't think of in your head at the time, but they're like, hey,
• 1:00:01
  lean back, lean forward, do this.
• 1:00:04
  And then you're like, dude, this is bad ass.
• 1:00:07
  Yeah, this is a great time. I'm sure you experienced that
• 1:00:09
  like Pony Express and. Doing well, the Pony Express
• 1:00:12
  last year was like my first time actually like writing writing,
• 1:00:18
  right? Like, remember when I think, I
• 1:00:22
  think I was on Tyler's leg with him and I think you and Shell
• 1:00:27
  were at one of these gates. Or maybe it was like, yeah, you,
• 1:00:30
  I think you, Shell and Marty were at one of the gates.
• 1:00:33
  Probably not talking shit at all.
• 1:00:34
  No, I mean, I couldn't hear you because I was, I was too dialed
• 1:00:37
  in and I I was riding 45 and we had to go up and around, right.
• 1:00:44
  Looking back, like it's just like a little tiny, steep little
• 1:00:48
  hill, you know, like I, I could do it now just fine.
• 1:00:51
  But back then, dude, it's like, Oh my God.
• 1:00:53
  Yeah, you know, And then so I got through that.
• 1:00:57
  I lived through that and then when we got to Prescott, where
• 1:01:02
  we go in that. That lot, yeah, that.
• 1:01:05
  Parking lot, you know, we did the whole parade, right?
• 1:01:08
  And I think I was riding Cooper at the time.
• 1:01:11
  And when we had to come back up that big hill, dude, I was not
• 1:01:16
  ready, man. No, Hell no.
• 1:01:18
  So we're like going up and I see everybody and I see all their
• 1:01:21
  horses. Just start because because the
• 1:01:24
  horse knows what it needs to do, right?
• 1:01:26
  It like all the horses start running up.
• 1:01:29
  I've never ran on a horse, right?
• 1:01:31
  And I'm just like, I really want to go to the side where I know
• 1:01:35
  that it's not very steep, but everybody's going this way and I
• 1:01:39
  don't want to be that guy, right?
• 1:01:42
  And so, you know, Cooper's like going and then he sees, you
• 1:01:47
  know, he's falling all the other horses and just starts going,
• 1:01:50
  you know, like going up this hill.
• 1:01:51
  And I wasn't ready, dude. And I don't think I put my
• 1:01:54
  saddle on right or tight enough. And I come out of there all
• 1:01:57
  sideways. It's like.
• 1:02:00
  Yeah, that. Oh, shit.
• 1:02:01
  Yeah. I was like hell.
• 1:02:03
  Well, and having your buddies there, like, you know, I'll have
• 1:02:05
  Shell and Marty riding with me. Yeah.
• 1:02:07
  And it just, it takes the edge off because you're not
• 1:02:10
  concentrating on what you're doing.
• 1:02:12
  You're just more bullshit and back and forth and you know, and
• 1:02:15
  but there's, there's like I said, there's still an
• 1:02:17
  opportunity for an accident like I've in, you know, I've gotten
• 1:02:21
  off a few times and hit the ground and you know.
• 1:02:24
  Yeah, it it hurts. I have not been knocked off and
• 1:02:29
  I like knock on some. I lost, I lost my reins and went
• 1:02:33
  on a ride and it was, it was kind of one of those we're in
• 1:02:36
  the arena messing with the, the, the shoot.
• 1:02:39
  And he, he heard the shoot and I didn't have a tight grip.
• 1:02:44
  And I lost those reins and his head was in the dirt and I could
• 1:02:48
  not grab them. So I had my hands around the
• 1:02:50
  horn leaning back, going whoa. And it was almost dark.
• 1:02:57
  And I'm like, I don't know if he sees fence and I'm not going to
• 1:03:00
  find out. And so I bailed off the side of
• 1:03:03
  them. Yeah, and I think the crater is
• 1:03:06
  still in the dirt to this day because I hit the ground hard.
• 1:03:09
  Was that you on that day? And my wife comes up to me and
• 1:03:13
  I'm laying on the ground and she's like, Oh my God, I'm like
• 1:03:16
  get away from me. I need to breathe.
• 1:03:20
  And so we finally get home and, and I, I wrote for another hour
• 1:03:25
  after that, I'm like, because I always tell the kids, get back
• 1:03:27
  on, you know. And so I'm like, I got to, you
• 1:03:30
  know. But you didn't really want to
• 1:03:31
  get back on. I well, it hurt, but I'm like,
• 1:03:33
  no, you can do this. And so we get home and I'm like
• 1:03:37
  getting undressed. I'm like, ow, everything hurts
• 1:03:42
  and Megan's like you need to go to the hospital.
• 1:03:45
  I'm like, no, I don't, you know, like I'm not paying to go check.
• 1:03:50
  So finally she's like, you have kids, you need to go to the
• 1:03:53
  hospital, you know, And so I go in and they're like, so you fell
• 1:03:56
  off a horse. And I'm like, no, I got off the
• 1:04:00
  horse on my own. I did not fall off.
• 1:04:03
  Yeah, I decided. Yeah, but like, I tore my pack.
• 1:04:08
  Luckily I didn't really do anything else.
• 1:04:10
  But man, it hurt. And it made you realize, you
• 1:04:13
  know, like most of the issues you have on a horse are probably
• 1:04:17
  your fault. Yeah, You know, because they
• 1:04:19
  know what they're doing. I mean, there's been so many
• 1:04:21
  times where I'll be on a trail ride and I think I know better,
• 1:04:24
  and then I end up going right through a Bush or, you know,
• 1:04:27
  yeah, something because I took control and I probably shouldn't
• 1:04:30
  have. You know, they don't care.
• 1:04:33
  They don't see the height though, So you got to pay
• 1:04:35
  attention on the trees. Yeah, I was about to say because
• 1:04:38
  I just went riding with Oakley the other day, and there's like
• 1:04:42
  this big old area where there's like a bunch of trees and
• 1:04:47
  they're all thorny, man, you know?
• 1:04:49
  And I was like, all right, let's see what you do.
• 1:04:52
  And no, I'm getting all scraped up and everything.
• 1:04:54
  So yeah, I was like, no, I'm going to decide where we're
• 1:04:57
  going to go because I'm not going to get scratched up.
• 1:04:59
  Yeah, no, the they they think they're doing fine.
• 1:05:03
  Yeah, they're like, oh, not a big deal.
• 1:05:05
  You're over there missing your hat.
• 1:05:07
  Yeah, you know. I did.
• 1:05:08
  I did have a oh shit moment with Oakley when we did the Pony
• 1:05:12
  Express parade in Wickenburg. And Logan and Tree, they could
• 1:05:21
  attest to this. But like, she started, like,
• 1:05:24
  bucking because I think she stepped on something.
• 1:05:27
  And I was trying to like, you know, take some pictures and
• 1:05:29
  stuff. And I have my phone right here.
• 1:05:31
  And she just starts out of nowhere, dude.
• 1:05:34
  And I just remember, you know, the one thing that I really want
• 1:05:38
  to know is like, how to, you know, hold on, Right.
• 1:05:41
  Well, you know, I grabbed the horn and I turned her head one
• 1:05:45
  way, you know, and that obviously helped me out.
• 1:05:47
  But, dude, I was scared, man. Oh, yeah.
• 1:05:50
  You know. But did you sit it?
• 1:05:51
  You didn't go off, right? No.
• 1:05:52
  No. So you felt like Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  Dude, I felt like, I felt like little tree like in his little
• 1:05:57
  bronc, you know what I mean? I was like, yeah.
• 1:05:58
  Dude, where's my buckle at? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:06:02
  Yeah, No, we've, we've been at parades where you know, you're
• 1:06:06
  going through the road and they'll hit like a a fire lane
• 1:06:11
  and some of the horses won't cross it.
• 1:06:13
  You're like, really? They get all freaked out,
• 1:06:15
  Really. See the lines.
• 1:06:16
  Oh yeah, yeah. Some of the weirdest shit that
• 1:06:18
  you wouldn't think of. And you know, and that's why
• 1:06:22
  like my daughter's horse hates tarps.
• 1:06:25
  So I look like Superman. I'll walk around and with the
• 1:06:29
  tarp, you know, just because you never know what's going to freak
• 1:06:32
  him out. Yeah, you know, I don't want to
• 1:06:34
  find out the hard way either, so.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah, I've been like taking bags, like feed bags and like
• 1:06:41
  fill them up and then I'll throw them on on a, on a Oakley
• 1:06:44
  because it's last Pony Express. Every time I got the mail, she
• 1:06:48
  was freaking out. Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:51
  So yeah, it's got to do something.
• 1:06:53
  Yeah. No.
• 1:06:54
  All right, man. Well, I really appreciate you
• 1:06:57
  coming on here. Yeah.
• 1:06:59
  Thanks for having. Me on the podcast and
• 1:07:00
  everything. Is there anything that hopefully
• 1:07:03
  this blows up right? Hopefully this is this is the
• 1:07:05
  episode. That is, yeah.
• 1:07:07
  Is there? Anything that you want to say
• 1:07:10
  or? No, I'm pretty good.
• 1:07:12
  I I just appreciate being here. You know, it's it's good to be
• 1:07:16
  on a podcast where I feel like we're pushing normal, like, you
• 1:07:21
  know, you know, it's making normal mainstream again and and
• 1:07:25
  getting people the opportunity to share their stories and talk.
• 1:07:30
  And you know, you guys are doing, you know, well so far.
• 1:07:33
  So I can only see it going. Thank you from here.
• 1:07:36
  And if and if anybody needs to contact you, like say they want
• 1:07:39
  to get their backyard, their front yard done.
• 1:07:41
  Yeah, I think we can do the the link to the yeah on Instagram
• 1:07:46
  or. Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  Well, OK. So we'll go ahead and add that
• 1:07:48
  on there and everything. Yeah.
• 1:07:50
  But Thornman Land Management, you can, you know, look it up in
• 1:07:52
  the search for or we'll have the.
• 1:07:54
  He's kind of like Billy or what's his name in land Man.
• 1:07:59
  Oh, Billy Bob Thornton. Yeah, he's kind of like that,
• 1:08:01
  but just not like that. Honoring and cantankerous, Just
• 1:08:04
  £100 heavier. All right, man.
• 1:08:07
  Well, I appreciate you coming out.
• 1:08:08
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 1:08:09
  Appreciate it. You friends, everyone's going to
• 1:08:13
  be friends and plus you better ride like you ride.