Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #179: Anthony Drealan-Dakota State University

Transcript

#179: Anthony Drealan-Dakota State University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Welcome to season 3 of gila politics connection podcast.
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  See what today's guest has in store for us.
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  Alright. Welcome back to the gulf etics
• 0:42
  track and field connections, podcast.
• 0:44
  It's Halloween. I don't know when you're
• 0:46
  listening, but we published here on Halloween and I was going to
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  make some wisecrack, about wearing a costume.
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  I'm actually really big into Halloween now.
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  And so, tonight, while you're listening to this day tonight,
• 0:58
  I'm actually I've got this gorilla suit now thing.
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  So I can scare the kids. I'm pumped, man, in a really
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  more pumped about today's guest. So, let's hop into it.
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  I've got the head coach for cross and track at beautiful.
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  The university help me. Welcome the wise, the wonderful
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  mr. Anthony drillin.
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  Anthony, how are you sir? I'm great.
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  Thanks for having me. Happy Halloween, happy Halloween
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  exactly the magic of podcast recordings, right.
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  You never know when it's actually.
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  Yep. You know, and I don't know you
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  well enough that I can't make a wisecrack about your costume
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  being more today. So I'll just skip right over in
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  the. I am excited for you to be here
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  today. You know, we like to reach out
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  to coaches around the country at all, different levels and at
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  Dakota State, your NAIA that excites me, it's one of the
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  levels. I actually didn't coach at I
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  coached at high school, small d 1, and then power 5.
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  And so I did a little bit of Club summer coaching which God
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  bless those people. I just can't do that and so I'm
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  always interested just howl different people do different
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  things and so just excited kind of delve into, you know, how you
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  got into this coaching thing and how things are going at Dakota
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  State today. Man, absolutely, I'm excited
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  too. To go over some of that.
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  Yeah, share my share my experiences, awesome and well I
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  always tell people your story matters and I know we're pretty
• 2:18
  we're going to get into this but it's going to be.
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  This is one that will you'll learn stuff from it from this,
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  for sure. I think everybody we can learn
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  from and so I'm excited to jump in here and Anthony story.
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  So Anthony, why don't we kind of, I don't know, getting our
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  way back machine. You know, assuming that you are
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  an athlete. Some, at some point in your life
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  coaching, became something that you can that you actually
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  thought of like, oh actually, I could become a coach instead of
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  just something that happens to you, where does coaching kind of
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  start coming into your life college.
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  And so I to go back, even further.
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  I ran a couple years of cross-country and high school
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  and track and ultimately really didn't even know if I wanted to
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  run in college. But my high school,
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  cross-country coach ran, it Dakota State University as well
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  and encouraged me to check it out.
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  And so long story. Sure I did.
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  And I really I really, you know, found a lot of, you know, great
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  things about running, you know, that applies to all of us.
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  All of my life which you know, people find that in sport
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  anyways. But anyways, along the way when
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  I was in college here at DSU and really enjoying my running, I
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  was going into education, knew I wanted to work with people and
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  be a teacher. One of my college coaches Trent
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  Mac, he said, hey, you know, Anthony you have the personality
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  And interest in in running and the training and all that sort
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  of stuff, you should really think about coaching.
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  And that's about when I was a sophomore junior and that really
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  sparked the interest and it really grew from there, you
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  know. So it's funny how that works
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  you're in. You're in a sport and you're
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  heavily involved in it and it still took someone saying hey
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  maybe it's something you should think about what do you think
• 4:03
  that's interesting. Actually, what you just said
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  there because I think about other things, you know, we as we
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  grow up, we're into comic books and baseball cards and
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  Astronauts in, we don't realize sometimes like, oh wait like
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  actually some gets paid to be at Nasa.
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  Yeah, someone gets paid to write comic books and until someone
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  may be kind of comes along and says, hey you know what, I know
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  you're really into comic books and you're like a really good
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  artist. Have you ever thought?
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  Like maybe making that your profession?
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  Like oh God. No I have it.
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  I thought I supposed to be a doctor or a yeah.
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  But yeah, I like that. Now.
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  Something interesting you said there about Trent and you know
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  we've done this this is episode number 179.
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  So we've had 178 other coaches on here.
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  And while my memory is not as good, as maybe it used to be, I
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  don't know that anyone has ever talked about a coach or Mentor
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  or someone in their life that said you have the personality to
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  be a track, just Cross Country Coach.
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  A lot of people say, hey man you really love track deer thought
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  about being a coach or, hey, you're really good at the
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  science or the biomechanics part of this thing, like you forgot
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  about being a coach, what do you think he meant about the
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  personality of being a track coach?
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  That's, that's interesting to me.
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  Yeah, you know I'm 34 now and so I'm you know probably 14 years
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  removed from this conversation so you know who knows how my
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  memory remembers things. But if I if I look back and
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  think about it I think it was probably probably the way that I
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  interacted with my teammates and my friends and, you know, as as
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  you become older within a program, you have brand new 18
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  year old athletes coming in? Who, you know, don't know what
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  to expect and just are people that You know, are looking for
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  guidance. And that's something that me and
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  my teammates. I think really enjoy doing.
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  And we had probably different approaches to it, you know?
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  And, and, and anyways, I think that's probably something that
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  he, you know, noticed is, you know, how we would, you know,
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  try to Mentor young athletes and take him under her wing and
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  encourage them and and find out, you know, what they want to
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  accomplish. And and so that's that's
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  something that, you know, kind of rings in my head, you know,
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  as I look back and and I was always interested in, you know,
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  hey, why are we doing this workout?
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  What's the reasoning behind this and that sort of stuff?
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  But but really yeah, just the aspect of being interested and
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  invested in, you know, my teammates and have an empathy
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  for them and an interest in them.
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  Probably. And again, that's my bias,
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  probably speaking. Now as a coach but that but
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  that's what I think. So you're like, I was really
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  awesome as a leader that's why he wanted to do.
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  Yeah just excellent because I love I love hearing that because
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  when you say that you know I think of it more globally and
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  I'm like well man that's Only the type of Personality as maybe
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  Trent use the word back then that I that we want here in our
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  business here at gil and the head lab scientists at a lab
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  would need for his, you know, his crew and things like that.
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  Like that's it sounds like that's just another way of
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  saying leadership. Yeah, yeah, I think so, you
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  know, and there's there's a lot of different successful ways to
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  lead. I think, you know, and
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  everyone's personality is a little bit different, but it
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  was, it was, it was, it was something that, you know, he
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  probably viewed that. I did have an interest in my
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  teammates more than just us Beyond being successful.
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  But, you know, invested in them, wanting to improve and get
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  better too. And I think it came a little bit
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  from, you know, just my own my own mental, you know, journey
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  and and running and, and Just from a standpoint of as an
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  eighteen-year-old, not really even sure if this is something
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  that I enjoyed to kind of turning a 180 and really working
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  hard at it and finding a lot of passion for it.
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  You know. And so that's something that,
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  you know, you kind of find what you kind of find, what you're
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  interested in and passionate about and sometimes you you know
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  that's that's all you want to talk about, you know, with your
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  friends. And so that's probably part of
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  it too. Yeah, I created a whole podcast
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  around that talk. Yeah.
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  I don't want to skip over this. I appreciate that.
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  Openness you just said there, let me make sure I heard you,
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  right, you came into college going.
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  Yeah, I don't, because you mentioned earlier, I didn't even
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  know if I was going to do this in college.
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  Yes. So running wasn't something
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  initially that was like, you know, some people, it's their
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  whole personality speaking that personality word again, right?
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  It's our whole thing, you know, we'd love it, we read Runner's
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  World every day, we read Track and Field magazine.
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  We, every Twitter account to sounds like like, maybe it
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  wasn't that for you at the beginning.
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  Anyway, No it, you know, when I was in high school I had some
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  great coaches and great teammates and people who are
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  encouraging and I just didn't put as much into it as I wish I
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  did. And that's everybody, you know,
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  goes through and has regrets and what they did.
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  But that was a big part of it is, is I had, you know, nerves
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  and anxiety going into races and just, you know, wondering why am
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  I doing this? And, and a big reason was I
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  hadn't really figured out how to, you know, invest myself
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  fully into it. And I decided, you know, just
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  No. After after a senior year of
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  cross-country, you know what? I'll give this college running
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  thing a try and I'll see how it goes.
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  And, you know, it's not going to harm me to, you know, give it a
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  give it a go but before I headed into DS, you, you know, the the
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  typical 18 year old is so worried about while this is
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  college running. I'm just going to, you know,
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  absolutely be demolished. I actually started to take
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  myself, you know, in my training more seriously.
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  And that was, that was a big, big changing point.
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  In a lot of aspects of my life. Life just because it was like,
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  okay I'm actually putting in the work to something and investing
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  myself into it and committing to it.
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  And and that's something that, you know, it really is
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  interesting. It transfers to other areas of
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  your life and I found, I found, you know, this is something that
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  I really enjoy and love doing, you know, because I've put the
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  time into it and obviously, you know, now coaching athletes, you
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  know, even even from a standpoint in high school where
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  I was unsure if I'd continued running.
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  Yeah I think you know, we're all a better for You took that
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  chance, right? I mean, you easily, you didn't
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  have that fear of failure, you're like, all right, I'll
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  give it a try and kind of, I'm sure you have.
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  Maybe had some conversations to back your head of like, all
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  right, well, if it just doesn't work out.
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  Yeah, least, I'm not a good school and I'll get a great
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  education. And yep, move.
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  And you said, you knew you kind of wanted to go into teaching
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  and education component of it. So in that, junior year, when
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  coach Mac said, hey, have you thought about coaching aspect of
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  it? What direction did you start
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  taking with that? And if Nothing at all.
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  Like we're you to continue on with your degree, or did you
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  start paying attention more to the coaching side of of track,
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  you know, early on, you know, after kind of having that
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  conversation and that seed, spark.
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  It was something where, you know, I started just thinking.
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  Okay, what do, what do I want to do?
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  You know, do I do? I simply, you know, do I want to
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  be in the high school coaching realm of things and and so it
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  was kind of a process of like thinking that over and at the,
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  at the time. By that time I had started.
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  Dating, my wife who we met as freshmen on the cross-country
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  and track team. So you start having a
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  significant other that maybe is going to play in your life too,
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  you know? And so you talk over, you know,
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  future goals with with that individual as well and and and
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  she's you know, been just awesome and super supportive of
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  all of this but eventually it came to a point where I was like
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  I think that there might be an opportunity to, you know,
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  volunteer here at DS. You work on a master's degree.
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  In human performance and physical education.
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  And and, and, and just try to break in that way, you know?
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  And as you know, like, that's that's a lot of the routes that,
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  you know, college coaches take is, you know, you know, just
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  finding their way in somehow, you know.
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  And so that after a year or two is something that became my plan
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  and really, you know what, I was striving for and shooting for,
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  we don't really have a like, a clear path, right?
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  If someone says, I want to be a coach, you tell me?
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  Ya llego coach. I get, I don't know what you
• 11:54
  want to be a doctor. Go to bed.
• 11:56
  All young to be a lawyer, go to get your JD.
• 11:59
  If you want to be an accountant to go take the CPA exam with the
• 12:02
  outfits. Like all right.
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  Go help someone. Yes, yep.
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  Start right. Where did you know?
• 12:09
  I'm always fascinated with people who want to become
• 12:11
  teachers and coaching is just a different way to spell teacher
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  and all reality. Yep, where did that come from?
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  Parents teachers, did you have impactful teachers in middle
• 12:22
  school high school? Where did that kind of?
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  Hey, I want to be a surf because that's what teaching Jean is
• 12:26
  Right. Want to be a servant.
• 12:27
  I want to help others. Where does that come from?
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  Yeah, well, my mother, my mother was a teacher for a long time,
• 12:33
  so I had that influence, my dad, my dad was a CPA, you know, as
• 12:39
  you have mentioned so or reference CPAs.
• 12:43
  And so, but he was a, he was an individual who was was a
• 12:48
  terrific teacher, you know, in his way, you know, the things
• 12:51
  that I learned from him and my mom.
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  So that's, you know, that's, I can't, I can't.
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  Diminish, the influence of my parents because because that was
• 12:59
  huge. But as I got into Junior and
• 13:02
  senior of my high school years, I, you know, you start thinking
• 13:06
  what do I want to do? And and and I found that I did
• 13:10
  enjoy, you know, working with people and and then having an
• 13:13
  influence on them. And I had a really really strong
• 13:16
  interest in history and so I thought well this is you know
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  this is something that I'd love to, you know, teach and pass on
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  to. So it it started from there Are
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  and and obviously, grew as I went through college and and
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  and, you know, and got into the coaching aspect of it.
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  So let's go there. What you know like said we don't
• 13:35
  have a direct path to be a coach, right?
• 13:37
  Get a degree and Tech some of us die.
• 13:39
  I don't have a degree for a while.
• 13:41
  I had to get into coaching to get a degree so it's not
• 13:43
  necessarily the first thing and you can have a lot of different
• 13:46
  degrees. What did you end up getting your
• 13:48
  degree in? Yeah so my undergrad ended up
• 13:51
  being a business education made. Yeah yep.
• 13:55
  And Minor in computer education and so that that was a path in
• 13:59
  itself, you know. But but honestly it's it's
• 14:02
  something that I really, really enjoy, you know, and and is
• 14:05
  something that is is actually applicable to what I do.
• 14:08
  You know, the all the business aspects of, you know, my degree
• 14:11
  is actually pretty useful in managing a program, and budgets,
• 14:15
  and those sorts of things too. So, and then just your personal
• 14:18
  life too, you know, that's, that's something that I really
• 14:20
  am. Glad I went in to see you want
• 14:22
  to be a college track coach one day, just major in business and
• 14:25
  my own. It's the past.
• 14:27
  Yep, that's how Boo and a half and that's probably how they did
• 14:33
  it. So what did you do?
• 14:35
  Did you said I lost track a little bit.
• 14:37
  You volunteer. After you graduate or graduate
• 14:39
  assistant, would you do for your first like?
• 14:41
  Okay, I want to be a coach. I got to go coach, I am a very
• 14:44
  fortunate and I feel very lucky and, and fortunate, you know,
• 14:48
  for for everything, for all the opportunities that I've got at
• 14:51
  Dakota State and and and have been here, you know, since 2006
• 14:54
  as an athlete. But as I graduated in 2011, my
• 14:59
  plan was to volunteer here. I was going to work over nights
• 15:04
  at a plastic manufacturing place in town and, and help volunteer
• 15:09
  coach, and my distance coach The head cross country coach at that
• 15:13
  time. What?
• 15:14
  For my senior year? And right after that was Mike,
• 15:17
  Makuta and great coach ran really well under him and then
• 15:20
  the longtime head track and field coach was Buzz Stevenson
• 15:24
  and he had been here for 30 years.
• 15:25
  Ears. So I was going to volunteer, you
• 15:27
  know, under both of them at at DS, you and long story short,
• 15:32
  you know in the middle of the summer, coach new Cuda gets a
• 15:35
  great opportunity coaching elsewhere and he takes that
• 15:39
  opportunity and and so Buzz knowing that I was going to be
• 15:42
  volunteering says, hey would you like to, you know, apply and try
• 15:47
  to be the distance coach and so I was super lucky to be an
• 15:50
  assistant coach right away working with these distance
• 15:54
  Runners that I was, you know, we're going to About.
• 15:56
  But but be really, you know, in charge of managing their success
• 16:00
  and their progress. And so I was I was very
• 16:02
  fortunate and lucky and I'm very appreciative of that type of
• 16:06
  opportunity. Because so many people are
• 16:09
  volunteering in the ga is, and I was able to kind of work right
• 16:12
  into an assistant position right away.
• 16:13
  So very yeah, it was, it was awesome.
• 16:16
  Awesome opportunity and I'm was lucky to be in the place that I
• 16:20
  was in a lot to unpack there because you said something that
• 16:23
  really piqued my interest. Did you actually Lee.
• 16:26
  You said you were going to work over nights at the plastic
• 16:29
  plate? Yeah, actually work midnight
• 16:31
  Midnight. Yeah, so I got about three
• 16:33
  months of that job in and then and then and so that was during
• 16:37
  the summer months and and then so obviously as I got a
• 16:40
  full-time position here, I didn't do that after that, you
• 16:44
  know. So and I actually enjoyed
• 16:47
  working there and my supervisor, there was a great person to work
• 16:52
  for two, but obviously I had the opportunity of what I was.
• 16:55
  G4. So I was fortunate.
• 16:58
  So what my first coaching job was an assistant at the high
• 17:02
  school level in Chicago. And then the next year, I was
• 17:06
  lucky enough that the head coach retired and so they gave me the
• 17:09
  head coaching job and so to spend as much time as possible,
• 17:12
  you know, it's you guys spend more time at the school.
• 17:15
  I wasn't a t. I didn't have a degree, so I
• 17:16
  wasn't a teacher. Anything?
• 17:18
  I started working Midnight's. I was a security guard officer.
• 17:22
  We have a gun or nothing. Thank God.
• 17:24
  I didn't have a guy didn't have right now.
• 17:26
  Good for anybody. But at this really, really large
• 17:29
  Hotel in Chicago. So I'd work at 11:00 at night,
• 17:32
  still 7:00 in the morning. Wow, sleep for a few hours drive
• 17:35
  to the high school coach for several hours.
• 17:37
  Come back, nap dinner. Get to get back to the, it was
• 17:41
  terrible. I mean it's God bless people who
• 17:43
  work midnight shift. Yeah, it's amazing.
• 17:46
  What you do though to do the things that you want to do, you
• 17:49
  know, and that's the type of stories you hear all the time,
• 17:52
  just like yours. It's you, you're willing to do
• 17:54
  it, you know, especially when You know, young and ready to get
• 17:57
  into it and and everything to it's amazing what the human mind
• 18:01
  and it will put themselves through.
• 18:03
  Yeah, I can't think of any other thing I you know, using that
• 18:05
  accountant CPA like who says, you know I really want to be a
• 18:08
  CPA. So I'm going to work Midnight's
• 18:09
  at the plastics factory. Yeah.
• 18:11
  But I can I can come in and in turn.
• 18:14
  Yep. Stevens Lido and Barnes.
• 18:17
  Yeah. Law Firm to be an accountant or
• 18:19
  whatever. Like no one, no one there.
• 18:20
  I can't know that another single thing but coaching.
• 18:23
  Yep, man, that's amazing. That's it.
• 18:25
  Is it is so another thing that you brought up there that I
• 18:28
  think is extremely interesting. So you went from undergrad.
• 18:33
  One day, you know June 1st August 1st, you were essentially
• 18:38
  the coach is that we just think with the same team.
• 18:41
  So the key, yes, the kids that you were teammates with hanging
• 18:45
  out doing college, teammates, tough year, writing workouts and
• 18:48
  directing workouts, within 3 months.
• 18:51
  How did that transition go? It was, it was Surprisingly
• 18:57
  really, really good and I you know, a lot of credit to to
• 19:00
  these teammates of mine who you know put their trust in me and
• 19:04
  and and you know, I definitely had to prove that, you know,
• 19:07
  hey, you know we're doing what's best for you.
• 19:09
  And this is why we're doing it. And I'm always willing to, you
• 19:12
  know, be be talking about training specifically and and in
• 19:16
  all these different types of things but they were, they were
• 19:18
  phenomenal. You know?
• 19:19
  And you know when you're when you're at that young age and you
• 19:23
  literally just ran with these individuals You have that that
• 19:26
  hard, you know that hard transition.
• 19:29
  I'm saying, hey this is the relationship that we have now
• 19:32
  and you know, it is what it is and there's you know kind of a
• 19:37
  some give and take there for sure but it went really well and
• 19:41
  I owe a lot of credit to these athletes who, you know, did a
• 19:44
  did a great job of saying yeah. Like this is this is this is my
• 19:48
  coach now and it'll put some trust in him and and hopefully I
• 19:52
  hopefully I earned that and everything to so but yeah,
• 19:55
  that's You know that's a that's that's definitely a unique
• 19:59
  unique aspect, sometimes of the this type of profession and and
• 20:03
  the college coaching realm. So you realized fairly early
• 20:08
  like maybe even from day one like hey I have to have a
• 20:10
  different relationship with these kids you know?
• 20:12
  And yeah I realized last weekend I was playing Xbox.
• 20:14
  Maybe having a drink with them all over. 21.
• 20:17
  Yeah to now it's like oh yeah we just can't do that.
• 20:20
  That's not the not the the I don't want a relationship but
• 20:24
  you know it's not the way we're We have to carry the
• 20:26
  relationship forward. Yeah.
• 20:28
  And in it it's it was it was, it was hard but not hard in the
• 20:33
  sense that I knew that, this is what I wanted to get into and as
• 20:37
  a profession. And I obviously had this
• 20:41
  mentality and mindset of this is the type of relationship you
• 20:45
  have to have as a coach with your athletes and and it's not
• 20:48
  that you don't, you know, care for them and you know want to be
• 20:51
  a tight-knit group, but you you cannot do your best job of
• 20:55
  Poaching them. If you have this really loose,
• 20:58
  you know, you know type of relationship.
• 21:00
  There's a professionalism aspect that comes with it and and again
• 21:04
  a lot of credit to my friend, as you know who became my athletes.
• 21:07
  That I coached is they did and they did did a great job of
• 21:10
  that, you know, and after a few years when they graduated it,
• 21:13
  you know, could go back to more of a, you know, that friendship.
• 21:16
  And and so that was, you know, that was even well coaching
• 21:19
  them. There was you know, just a
• 21:21
  unique aspect to it. But it was, it was something
• 21:24
  that I realized that. Guy wanted to make sure that
• 21:27
  hey, this is, this is how we need to interact.
• 21:29
  And you know what you knew of me, you know, as a college
• 21:33
  friend and teammate is not gone, you know, when you, you know the
• 21:37
  the choices that I made, you know, but, you know, now I'm
• 21:40
  going to coach you to the best of my ability and try to help
• 21:42
  you run fast and be successful. Yeah, I worry about the the
• 21:48
  athlete who becomes the coach more than I do the athletes and
• 21:50
  the athletes can band together, they get new freshmen like you
• 21:54
  know, they still have a Together.
• 21:56
  Yes. You as the athlete, that
• 21:59
  transition to the coach, you know on Friday nights maybe you
• 22:01
  guys were used to hanging out like said playing the Xbox are
• 22:04
  going up the movies or whatnot. Whatever you whatever you
• 22:07
  young'uns do. Yeah to now Friday night it's
• 22:10
  like yeah I'm by myself. Yeah most of your friends are
• 22:13
  typically on your team so it's like all those guys are gone for
• 22:16
  my head out time. I worry about like the isolation
• 22:19
  of the of the new coach. Yeah and that's that's a very
• 22:22
  you know an interesting point and I think I Think that, you
• 22:26
  know, it wasn't something I thought about, you know, too
• 22:28
  much beforehand, but then when you're in it, it's like, yeah,
• 22:31
  this is a different, you know, life and and of what you choose.
• 22:35
  But, but you also, you know, also when you get to, I think,
• 22:38
  you know, 22 and 23. A lot of a lot of athletes are
• 22:41
  really excited, you know, for that next step in their life and
• 22:44
  pursuing the professional world to but not not everybody, you
• 22:49
  know, teachers and coaches, you know, there is this, you know,
• 22:55
  they're there. Are in this position where
• 22:57
  they're working with you know, either high school or elementary
• 23:00
  students or even college students.
• 23:02
  And athletes that you're expected to, you know, to have a
• 23:06
  sense of professionalism, you know.
• 23:07
  And that's not always, you know, the same across all professions.
• 23:10
  So you you kind of know what you're getting into but it's
• 23:14
  it's definitely, it's definitely weird but I, you know, on that
• 23:17
  same note I think that every student athlete, you know that
• 23:22
  is competing in college has a transition.
• 23:25
  In the sense that it's tough when you're done with your
• 23:28
  college athletics and that was, you know, that was something
• 23:31
  that certainly I missed and and and you know, it is a tougher
• 23:36
  transition, you know, the friends aspect and just the
• 23:38
  competitive aspect that's that's not easy, you know?
• 23:41
  And that's something that you don't really realize until
• 23:45
  you're at the end how tough it can be.
• 23:48
  So, I was not a college athlete, because I was terrible.
• 23:51
  So I don't have that experience. Are you talking about like on
• 23:53
  Saturday mornings through cross? Season 4 for 25 years.
• 23:57
  You were used to going to a meat in competing.
• 24:00
  Yeah. Then it changed to where it's
• 24:02
  like, oh I'm no longer competing, I'm helping others
• 24:05
  compete. There was a regular struggle
• 24:06
  there. Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:08
  That's, you know, and and US Runners have a little bit, you
• 24:12
  know, the basketball players, the football players, you know,
• 24:15
  the the volleyball players that is kind of just cut off, you
• 24:18
  know, for those athletes, especially.
• 24:20
  But even so, you know, even though I trained for a few
• 24:24
  years, you know, at a decent level.
• 24:25
  We're running wise and was running some races.
• 24:28
  It's just not the same as going to the meet with your teammates
• 24:32
  or, you know, waking up Sunday morning and having your long run
• 24:35
  and you spend two hours running with your teammates.
• 24:38
  That is, that is the, you know, the stuff that I was talking
• 24:41
  about where it's a, it's difficult.
• 24:44
  You know, even though you're really excited about this, you
• 24:47
  know, profession that you're in, have coaching.
• 24:49
  It's it's a different competitiveness feeling, you
• 24:52
  know, versus that. The actually doing it yourself.
• 24:54
  Yeah. We At this topic, came up with
• 24:59
  Charles bad from Washburn University.
• 25:02
  We were talking about. He was a really good decathlete
• 25:04
  who's now gone on to be a really great coach.
• 25:07
  And we were talking about the difference of coaching to an
• 25:10
  athlete versus coaching to a coach and you're kind of
• 25:15
  bringing it up in a different aspects.
• 25:16
  I like it. That, you know, as an athlete,
• 25:19
  there's a lot of selfishness and what I mean by that is the
• 25:21
  coaches telling me what to do so that I so I can figure out how
• 25:24
  to run faster or jump. Farther etcetera.
• 25:26
  When you become a coach? Now, every input that you have
• 25:30
  is oh well how do i digest this? And now turn it to the team.
• 25:33
  So there's it's a whole different mentality of it.
• 25:35
  Is this is what I'm going to do two so I can go get faster
• 25:38
  versus okay. What can I go do to get better?
• 25:39
  So I can help other people get faster.
• 25:41
  That's a different competitiveness.
• 25:43
  That's a different internal drive, it's a yep.
• 25:45
  Different way to lurk look and learn about things and it's out
• 25:50
  of your control. You know, when we get to race
• 25:52
  day, I don't have control. You know.
• 25:54
  The athletes are the Ones who are going to have to go and
• 25:57
  execute that race and and that's, that's different.
• 26:00
  It's just different, you know, than feeling that sense of
• 26:04
  control and that was really appealing to me as a runner, you
• 26:07
  know, you you have full control over your own success and and
• 26:12
  when you're a coach, then it's then it's not, you know, you
• 26:15
  realize that you can prepare them as best to the best of your
• 26:18
  ability and it's going to come down to, you know, what they can
• 26:21
  do out there. But don't you think you want
• 26:24
  that control like, Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 26:26
  All these workouts. Why aren't they doing this?
• 26:28
  I told him to go now or you know.
• 26:30
  Yep. Yep.
• 26:31
  And and when you see an athlete, you know, they put the work in
• 26:34
  the, you know, they done these work out so you can see what
• 26:37
  they're capable of doing and you just want to try to you know,
• 26:40
  help them and be able to get in their head and say, you can do
• 26:42
  this, you know, and and it takes time for every person to, you
• 26:46
  know, kind of figure that out. And yeah, you would love to have
• 26:50
  that control. I think that might be a
• 26:53
  situation of the careful what you ask for though.
• 26:55
  Yep. So what did you do is you're
• 26:59
  transitioning now into coach and, you know, you're fully
• 27:01
  transition you're into a coach and you're coaching and it's
• 27:04
  different now, you know, you lost that control.
• 27:06
  You're not actually competing on Saturdays and such.
• 27:08
  What did you start doing as coach drillin?
• 27:12
  Did you? And what I mean by that is
• 27:16
  coaching education and that could be formal or informal, you
• 27:20
  know? Maybe you called up people.
• 27:21
  Like, hey, I see that you guys do really awesome.
• 27:23
  I'm a new coach to help me out here.
• 27:25
  Or just, what did you start doing professionally?
• 27:29
  Professional development. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:31
  The, you know, right away for the first couple of years after
• 27:35
  I graduate with my bachelor's is, I was working on my Master's
• 27:39
  Degree. And at the at the time, you
• 27:42
  know, here at dies, you all of the head coaches taught, a few
• 27:46
  classes. And so, I was hopefully
• 27:48
  preparing to be that, you know, and and, you know, become a head
• 27:51
  coach at some point and and then be able to Peach.
• 27:56
  And a lot of our coaches here now are, you know, not teaching
• 28:00
  halftime. I still fortunately, am able to
• 28:02
  teach a few classes, which I really enjoy.
• 28:05
  So I feel fortunate to do that, but so many ways I was working
• 28:08
  on my master's degree in online program through Adam State
• 28:12
  University. I got to take one coaching class
• 28:15
  from Damon Martin the, you know, awesome, awesome.
• 28:19
  Coach at Adam state, which was, which was great, and it was
• 28:22
  online. Of course, you know, but you can
• 28:24
  still glean some great. Information, you know, from a
• 28:27
  great coach like that. So that was, you know, that took
• 28:30
  up the first two years of my coaching from a professional
• 28:34
  development standpoint. But then, you know, I was
• 28:36
  talking to a lot of my former coaches, you know, of people who
• 28:39
  had coached me and you know, the head coach Here, track coach
• 28:42
  here, Buzz Stevenson, and his years of experience that was a
• 28:45
  lot of things. I was able to kind of Bounce
• 28:47
  information off of, and I had even, even though I was coaching
• 28:52
  some of these athletes, there's a few upperclassmen that we
• 28:55
  would. We'll talk regularly, you know,
• 28:57
  like we did in the past you know, bouncing training ideas
• 28:59
  off each other and I had a few individuals that I could really
• 29:02
  trust as sounding boards and people who you know would would
• 29:07
  have a sense of you know what's worked well for them and and and
• 29:10
  just even to talk things out. So I had some athletes that you
• 29:13
  know, where my friends that you know, we talked about those
• 29:16
  things too and still continue that even to this day.
• 29:20
  So that really kind of Encompass the first few years of my
• 29:22
  coaching as I tried to you know develop Velop, you know who I
• 29:27
  was, as a coach and what was important, and those types of
• 29:29
  things, you mention another transition.
• 29:32
  Actually, we haven't talked very much at all and nearly 200
• 29:35
  episodes. You know, Buzz, was your head
• 29:37
  coach when you are an athlete and now you're on his staff.
• 29:41
  That's yeah. Another different relationship,
• 29:43
  right? You go from coach athlete
• 29:45
  relationship to coach assistant, coach relationship.
• 29:48
  How did that transition occur? It was great.
• 29:51
  And you know, it was it was I He so for a long time, he was, you
• 29:58
  know, one of the only coaches track and field and cross
• 30:01
  coaches here at DS, you on staff.
• 30:03
  So he had done everything. He came from the high school
• 30:06
  realm of things, you know, old school, if you want to say that
• 30:10
  and had coached coached everything and in my, in my
• 30:13
  years of running here, then dies you added started adding some,
• 30:17
  you know, as assistant or head cross positions for him.
• 30:20
  So he wasn't coaching all areas of track and field.
• 30:23
  So you know because of that. He he gave me a lot of
• 30:26
  responsibility right away to say, hey, these distance Runners
• 30:30
  are your responsibility. You're going to design their
• 30:32
  training, I'll be here for you and, you know, to be a
• 30:35
  supportive individual, but they're your responsibility.
• 30:38
  And then, in addition, you know, he gave me some of the other,
• 30:41
  you know, things with regards to coaching that you don't think
• 30:44
  of, you know, whether it might be, you know, lining up travel
• 30:46
  or, you know, all of those, you know, monotonous, you know,
• 30:49
  things that you never think about.
• 30:51
  So even in my, you know, first couple of years, I still had
• 30:54
  some of these things that I got to learn.
• 30:55
  Gradually instead of, you know, you know, being thrown full on
• 31:00
  into like a head coaching position or anything like that.
• 31:03
  So, that was great. You know, he was, he was someone
• 31:05
  who was there as a sounding board but he wasn't
• 31:08
  micromanaging. You know what I was doing from a
• 31:10
  training standpoint and I think part of that was due to he was
• 31:13
  still coaching Sprints and jumps and hurdles and and throws, you
• 31:17
  know, so so he said, hey I have a competent individual.
• 31:20
  I think, who can coach a distance Runner.
• 31:22
  So so it was a good balance there, you know, of having more
• 31:25
  responsibility. Responsibility.
• 31:26
  But having a sounding board and a person that can, you know, I
• 31:29
  can rely on for advice or you know, and here's the other
• 31:33
  aspect of coaching to when you have to deal with you know it
• 31:36
  disciplinary position on situation or when you have to
• 31:39
  deal with an athlete that, you know, maybe isn't you know,
• 31:43
  progressing and and and how do you help them?
• 31:46
  How do you help them? See, you know, maybe what they
• 31:47
  can do better or what their shortcomings are.
• 31:50
  That's the 35 40 years of experience that he had.
• 31:53
  And and me, you know, AB is simply being an athlete that you
• 31:57
  don't know and you don't know what you don't know.
• 31:59
  And so that was that was obviously something that it was
• 32:03
  extremely helpful to have you know right here while I started
• 32:07
  to you know delve into this profession I love the little
• 32:11
  caveat the little asterisk. You said when Buzz was like you
• 32:14
  know I have this competent individual here I think.
• 32:16
  Yeah the jury's still out yeah yeah we'll see other your goes
• 32:23
  when you were you know. You see your Coming straight
• 32:26
  from the undergrad into the coaching profession and a lot of
• 32:29
  us as athletes. Don't really see what coaches
• 32:32
  do, right? We primarily see them on the
• 32:35
  track for our workouts or on the field for cross-country and our
• 32:39
  field events and such. And then we all know we get on a
• 32:42
  bus or a plane to go somewhere, but we don't really think about
• 32:45
  like, someone had to schedule that.
• 32:47
  And we don't think about our uniforms and like, oh, someone
• 32:49
  had to budget for that and order that things like that as you
• 32:52
  were. And I'm so proud of Buzz for
• 32:55
  doing. Because I don't think we're
• 32:56
  doing this enough with our coaching staffs, and our younger
• 32:59
  coaches, and our assistant coaches, giving you
• 33:02
  responsibilities of, like scheduling a budget, you know,
• 33:04
  starting to kind of bring you into that.
• 33:06
  Yes, but that had to, I'm assuming that we'll probably was
• 33:09
  something new to your thought process of coaching.
• 33:11
  Like primarily you probably thought 95% of coaching was
• 33:14
  right in the workout and yeah, just during the workout.
• 33:16
  Yeah, oh yeah, that might be, maybe that's 50%.
• 33:19
  Because here's this whole other 50% with the recruiting logs and
• 33:22
  all this other stuff. What was your reaction?
• 33:25
  In when it was like, Hey, so we need someone to do whatever the
• 33:28
  first thing he gave you scheduling.
• 33:30
  So you got to call these other programs up and say, Hey, when's
• 33:32
  your meat. And you know when I need to
• 33:34
  schedule because I got a book, all this stuff.
• 33:36
  What was your first reaction like?
• 33:37
  Oh crap, there's like the coaching sighs maybe 50%, I got
• 33:41
  to do this, all this other stuff.
• 33:42
  Yeah. You know and you you hit it
• 33:44
  right on the head. You don't really think about
• 33:46
  those things as an athlete you're like, oh, this is where
• 33:48
  we're going for supper, at this meat or you know, and somebody
• 33:51
  called ahead and say, hey we're bringing 30 people but you don't
• 33:54
  think about that and And so, you know, the first reaction is
• 33:57
  like, well yeah, I'll jump in and I'll do whatever.
• 33:59
  You know, I need to do but you start getting your eyes open to
• 34:03
  all of the things that a coach does in the day.
• 34:06
  You know, that that you have that you have no idea of and
• 34:09
  and, and you should really start saying, wow, like there's
• 34:12
  there's some planning that goes into this and you know, we
• 34:15
  haven't even touched on meet management hosting a cross
• 34:17
  country or track and field meet, you know.
• 34:19
  And and and and and that's something that sometimes it's
• 34:23
  kind of unique to our sport in that we We really kind of manage
• 34:27
  our home events where it doesn't happen as much, you know, in the
• 34:30
  other sports as well. And so it was yeah.
• 34:33
  Extremely eye-opening. And you start realizing, you
• 34:37
  need to be well, organized and have a plan and and, and and
• 34:40
  really try to get ahead on these things.
• 34:42
  And hopefully, your by year, I've been getting better and
• 34:45
  better at that, but it's extremely eye-opening.
• 34:47
  And, and that's something, you know, you kind of noted with,
• 34:50
  you know, your assistance and how can you expect, you know,
• 34:53
  your assistance to You know, be able to make that transition to
• 34:57
  be a head coach, if you haven't given them some responsibility
• 35:00
  and I am, I will say I'm not always great at that.
• 35:02
  I have my I have my mentality while I'm the head coach let me
• 35:05
  take these responsibilities and but you you're not always doing
• 35:09
  a great service to your assistance.
• 35:10
  If you don't say hey like this is something that we should
• 35:13
  learn and teach them how to do and and and give that
• 35:16
  responsibility to but. Yeah, absolutely eye-opening,
• 35:19
  you know as a 23 year old you know and and learning about some
• 35:24
  of these things. We'll put a pin on that in
• 35:26
  regards to how you are doing, because you're the head coach
• 35:28
  now. So, you know exactly this young
• 35:30
  ask well, how are you doing? What the up on that and get to
• 35:33
  that. But I'm curious.
• 35:34
  Did you did you as you were getting these new assignments?
• 35:36
  And and not only the assignments that you got, but you now got to
• 35:39
  see coach Stephenson doing some things that you didn't know
• 35:43
  maybe had to get done. Was there an aha moment of like,
• 35:45
  holy crap? I had no idea we had to do X or
• 35:50
  man. I just thought the showing up to
• 35:52
  a restaurant. We just showed up and they
• 35:54
  suddenly had seats for About was revered like as aha, like, holy
• 35:57
  crap, didn't realize we have to do this as coaches.
• 35:59
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, even even something as,
• 36:02
  you know, it common sense and and, you know, you know, even
• 36:06
  reviewing your athletes transcripts after the semester
• 36:09
  and saying, you know, where's a person that credit-wise and
• 36:12
  things like that? Just, you know, I had no clue,
• 36:15
  you know, of something like that and all the other things that we
• 36:18
  mentioned to, you know, those are those are things.
• 36:20
  It's like, wow, like that's a that's above and beyond what I
• 36:23
  would have thought of you know, as a coach Each, you know.
• 36:25
  And and you know I had a sense of, I knew we were going to be
• 36:29
  recruiting a lot. I knew I would be working with
• 36:30
  our athletes and writing training and in you, you, I had
• 36:34
  no clue, you know, about some of these other things, you know,
• 36:37
  that, that we've talked about. So it was kind of a, maybe a
• 36:40
  slow burn of like starting to pile on.
• 36:43
  You do more of like, wow, there's a lot of things that
• 36:45
  these head coaches and they all these coaches do on a day-to-day
• 36:48
  basis and it, you become to a realization of the In that you
• 36:55
  need to have. And that sort of thing.
• 36:58
  Earlier, I said, you know, we kind of primarily think of
• 37:00
  coaching, is 90 to 95% of writing a workout and
• 37:03
  administering the workout. Yeah, it's actually a T20 cuz we
• 37:05
  think, oh, well, you do have to recruit like, yeah, reason
• 37:07
  everybody understands. Like, okay, I'm going out to
• 37:09
  recruit. Yep.
• 37:11
  Also realize, well, I'm also get the schedule and budget and
• 37:14
  disciplinary and academic. We wear a lot of hats.
• 37:17
  Yeah, coaches, man, too many in a lot of times and you brought
• 37:21
  up that good one about the meat management side of like, you
• 37:24
  know, here in Oi Brett malema, he is not focused on home games
• 37:29
  and write dirty, and where's the team going to come from?
• 37:32
  And how are we going to do gate receipt?
• 37:34
  No, no, he's worried about. Well, what's the X's and O's,
• 37:36
  and how exactly you have? And he has this great support
• 37:38
  staff around him. And on the track side, we don't
• 37:42
  have that primary the the majority of us do not have that
• 37:45
  were trying to find officials. We're figuring out schedule.
• 37:48
  We're figuring out where the bus is going to park it cetera.
• 37:51
  Yeah. And and even when the meat, even
• 37:53
  when the meats going on, you are You know, constantly, you know,
• 37:56
  putting out fires, making sure things are going well and it's
• 37:59
  really funny. It's really funny because, you
• 38:02
  know, that's the time where you should be coaching and and maybe
• 38:05
  that's a lot of credit to, you know, preparing our student
• 38:08
  athletes. Well, that they don't need you
• 38:10
  like right over their shoulder. And I think that's a valid
• 38:12
  point, but it's really funny. You know, you see all these
• 38:15
  people running a lot of meats and, and it's just a ton of
• 38:18
  work, you know. And you wonder how much coaching
• 38:20
  they get in on that day and we go up to South Dakota state in
• 38:24
  Brookings all The time, the 300 meter indoor track now and but
• 38:28
  they, but they host, you know, for five or six indoor meets a
• 38:30
  year and it's a lot of work, you know, to do those things.
• 38:34
  And I know, you know, it just it's a it's it's very
• 38:39
  interesting how our support functions at times.
• 38:42
  Yeah, and they do a great job. It's one of my favorite
• 38:44
  facilities up there. It's absolutely.
• 38:46
  So I'm glad you get to go up there.
• 38:47
  It's beautiful beautifully, do a great job.
• 38:49
  So as you continue transitioning, you get your
• 38:52
  degree and I'm fascinated by the way, and we haven't Isn't her
• 38:55
  name? You mentioned her.
• 38:57
  You mentioned you met your now wife as a freshman with she also
• 39:00
  a freshman or you guys same year?
• 39:02
  Yep. Yep.
• 39:02
  Both freshmen Samantha Samantha because I know Samantha's
• 39:06
  listening. Shout out to Samantha spouses of
• 39:08
  coaches. Don't get their do.
• 39:10
  I've threatened to actually have a spouse as a guest one day.
• 39:13
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:14
  That's perfect. But I think they would want some
• 39:15
  anonymity. We'd have to like, do the the
• 39:18
  screen and, you know, change the voice, and get the real, the
• 39:22
  realness of being. Yeah, spouse of a track.
• 39:25
  Coach. So how did the transition go
• 39:28
  from graduate school? And you know you got Samantha
• 39:31
  with you somewhere along the way you got married, how was you
• 39:34
  know? Just, you know, it's one thing
• 39:36
  to be a coach and be a single coach.
• 39:38
  And what I mean by that is you had Samantha as a girlfriend but
• 39:41
  being married, as you now know is completely different.
• 39:45
  But it's one thing to be, you know, not married and be a coast
• 39:48
  and then be married and have a coach regarding the hours and
• 39:51
  responsibilities, how did that transition?
• 39:53
  Continue past graduate school. Yeah.
• 39:55
  So in real quick, you know, we married in in the summer of 2010
• 40:03
  and and then she graduated in December that fall and I
• 40:07
  graduated in the following met right before I started coaching
• 40:11
  here. But she she knew that she wanted
• 40:14
  to be an occupational therapist and show she got into the
• 40:17
  graduate program at the University of South Dakota and
• 40:20
  Vermillion. So we spent the first two years
• 40:22
  actually, living 90 miles away from each other.
• 40:25
  Each other. And so it was it was it was kind
• 40:28
  of and so, you know, a lot of driving back and forth of seeing
• 40:31
  each other and that sort of thing.
• 40:33
  But for the amount that she was studying and how much the time
• 40:35
  she had to put into that and the amount of time amount that I was
• 40:39
  working, it was, it was not a bad setup for the first, two
• 40:42
  years of us of living in in different towns, you know.
• 40:45
  And, you know, again, we, you know, we traveled to see each
• 40:48
  other quite a bit and that sort of thing.
• 40:50
  But it was kind of a unique first, two years of Mayor.
• 40:52
  It's as we both pursued. You know what?
• 40:55
  What we wanted to do. And so after she graduated in
• 40:58
  2013 and moved back to Madison and got her first job, you know,
• 41:03
  then that you know, that was again you know kind of another
• 41:05
  transition for for both of us and you know she really seeing
• 41:09
  like you know how many weekends I'll be gone and it was also
• 41:13
  good for me to also realize hey there's an aspect of this life
• 41:18
  that you need to, you know, balance and realize that it's
• 41:22
  going to be important for you to you know, set your Job aside for
• 41:26
  sometimes and come home or or you know, let's go do something
• 41:29
  on a weekend and not feel like you have to be you know working
• 41:31
  on this and working on that. And so I'm not perfect by any
• 41:34
  means, she's a she's a great supporter of, you know, what I
• 41:37
  do and that sort of thing. But it was it was good for me
• 41:41
  you know to try to find someone that balance and and and in
• 41:45
  realize you know that you have to you have to be able to you
• 41:49
  know, mentally disengage. And that's the tough thing for
• 41:51
  coaches. You were always on the clock of
• 41:54
  saying, hey, I need to be thinking about what's coming up
• 41:57
  next door. You're dealing with, you know,
• 41:59
  trying to figure out, okay, why can't I get this person to, you
• 42:02
  know, really breakthrough in their performance and, and it's
• 42:05
  not good to be on the clock all the time.
• 42:07
  And, and, and so that's something that a spouse is
• 42:10
  equally as a equally important, you know, in her in her role for
• 42:14
  me, you know, is, is, is having a having that impact on me too.
• 42:18
  So, but yeah, you know that, you know, she moved back in 2013 and
• 42:23
  and so, then, you know, I really felt like Like okay, I'm
• 42:25
  starting to get into the groove of coaching a bit and and feel
• 42:29
  more comfortable and and you really start thinking about,
• 42:32
  okay? How do we how do we progress,
• 42:33
  you know, the program to and in our recruiting and everything as
• 42:37
  well? Which is been obviously the the
• 42:41
  focal point of what what we do now I know we have the spoiler
• 42:46
  meaning you're here and you're the head coach.
• 42:48
  Yeah but after that two years you doing grad work very unique
• 42:53
  situation with your wife doing. Occupational therapy as well.
• 42:57
  So your split and you're trying to figure out that whole dynamic
• 43:00
  trying to figure out. I mean, your first two years of
• 43:02
  marriage, you just try to figure out how in the world, do I?
• 43:04
  Yep. Be responsible for someone else
• 43:05
  and vice versa and make this partnership work and you're
• 43:08
  doing it with the 90 Mile, Stretch stand between you and
• 43:11
  your you're getting your feet wet as a coach.
• 43:15
  What point in was there ever a point on the opposite side?
• 43:19
  Did you did it hit you? And you're like, oh yeah, this
• 43:22
  is, this is what I was built for like this.
• 43:25
  A lot of times in our profession, we get hit with the
• 43:27
  oh man. It's sometimes it comes at like
• 43:29
  because we win a conference title or kid wins a big meat or
• 43:32
  something. You would get caught up in the
• 43:35
  the great feelings of it, but it was there ever a time where was
• 43:38
  just like, oh my goodness, why did I start earlier like why did
• 43:41
  I start as an undergrad coaching?
• 43:43
  Like this is it this is what I was put on Earth for and and the
• 43:46
  opposite, was there ever struggles of like man, I'm just
• 43:49
  not sure, you know, maybe I should be where my wife is
• 43:52
  occupational therapy and figuring out how to use my
• 43:54
  business degree. So we can be together and start
• 43:57
  a family or whatnot, you know, move on with the relationship
• 44:00
  that way. Yeah and I've had I've had both
• 44:04
  and you know, I to start on kind of maybe the negative side of
• 44:10
  things, you know. My first four years coaching we
• 44:14
  had and I'm proud of every all the athletes that I'm able to
• 44:17
  work with and and just, you know, it's been such an awesome,
• 44:22
  you know, a job to have and people to work with have been
• 44:25
  Absolutely, absolutely great. You know?
• 44:27
  And I I'm I'm super, you know, grateful for all the people.
• 44:32
  I've got to work with. When I first started coaching
• 44:34
  here, we had some really really good distance success, you know,
• 44:39
  especially as you look on the conference and National level.
• 44:41
  And so I had some athletes that were well established in
• 44:45
  qualifying for Nai Nationals and even becoming all Americans.
• 44:48
  And and so I had some, you had some really really, you know, a
• 44:51
  successful individuals to work with and So, you know, a few
• 44:56
  years after that, some of these graduate, I'm still trying to,
• 44:59
  you know, learn how to recruit. I don't feel like that's a
• 45:02
  strong point of mine. I do the work.
• 45:05
  I still feel like, you know, at that time I'm like, I don't I
• 45:09
  don't feel really great about how I express, you know, it's
• 45:13
  important to me and and why run in here would be, you know, a
• 45:16
  good for you and that sort of thing.
• 45:18
  And that's something, you know, to continually work on.
• 45:20
  So I'd say, you know, we had some years where, you know, we
• 45:23
  didn't have the same. Routing class and, you know,
• 45:26
  just not as talented as an individual's.
• 45:29
  And and so, you know, your success, you know, kind of dips
• 45:32
  and wanes and goes ups and downs.
• 45:33
  And and and again these are all great individuals that I got to
• 45:36
  work with. And some, you know, really
• 45:38
  really astounded you about how how much better you got.
• 45:42
  But we had some years in our, in our conference in the North Star
• 45:45
  where we were in place in very high at the conference
• 45:47
  championships. And and that's, that was, you
• 45:50
  know, a time of like, am I, you know where you reflect an, am I
• 45:53
  doing a good job in my I cut out, you know, for this this
• 45:57
  college coaching world of things and and and and how do we how do
• 46:01
  we do a better job with what we have and how we can we be
• 46:04
  successful? And and then anytime any coach,
• 46:08
  you know, goes through in these sort of, you know,
• 46:12
  student-athletes that, you know, maybe aren't working hard, or
• 46:14
  maybe there's, you know, what inter inter is friction among
• 46:19
  athletes. That adds, you know, more more,
• 46:22
  you know, worries to the job and so you Have some experiences
• 46:26
  like that, as a young, you know, 25 26 27, year old, and you're
• 46:29
  like how do we handle these things?
• 46:30
  So anyways it's life experience, is this all things that people
• 46:34
  go through, and you have to learn how to manage and deal
• 46:36
  with and properly, you know, deal with and build the culture
• 46:41
  that you want to build. So, you know, there's sometimes
• 46:43
  and you know, 2013, 2014 2015, where you know, you're wondering
• 46:49
  is this the right place for me. Is this the profession?
• 46:51
  I'm supposed to be doing. I love so much of it but there's
• 46:54
  time. Where you know you're not as
• 46:56
  successful as you want to be. And so you have self-doubt and
• 47:00
  so that that is a time period where you know I certainly at
• 47:03
  times you know wondered about some of those things and it was
• 47:07
  also kind of the time in my life where you know, I was I was
• 47:10
  really getting further away from my own competitive running.
• 47:13
  I train for a few good years, you know, to 2013.
• 47:17
  And and, you know, just, you know, a kind of kind of faded
• 47:20
  away on that aspect. So you have this chunkier life
• 47:23
  where, you know again as we spoke Before is it's kind of
• 47:26
  gone and and so I want sometimes, you know through
• 47:28
  sometimes there where I did have some Self Doubt and wondering
• 47:32
  about about you know what I'm doing and if this is what I'm
• 47:36
  supposed to be doing and you know, but I didn't have I never
• 47:40
  had a thought of like well this is what I should be doing.
• 47:42
  Instead you know, this is where I should be.
• 47:44
  You know II it's been a long time since I've looked at any
• 47:49
  other jobs honestly but you know, that was a time to where I
• 47:52
  was like well maybe maybe I should, you know, go and If I
• 47:55
  can find another deal coaching opportunity elsewhere and, you
• 48:00
  know, but I, but I stuck here and I kept working at it and
• 48:03
  kind of in that same time frame. You, we got our new athletic
• 48:07
  director around that time in the 2014 Range and he's been here
• 48:13
  since then and we've had a new president as well and a lot of
• 48:17
  good things has happened here at dies.
• 48:18
  You our enrollment has continued to grow when our support for our
• 48:22
  programs have just really, really improved.
• 48:25
  As well. So I felt like this was a place
• 48:28
  that was really building towards something as well and and so
• 48:30
  that's that was kind of you know where there was a lot of hope
• 48:34
  you know and it's kind of funny to rely on the outside things to
• 48:39
  kind of feel that way because I really feel like you know it's
• 48:41
  up to you to make your own success.
• 48:44
  But that's how that's how you know we really kind of started
• 48:47
  turning some things around and I feel like I've just improved in
• 48:50
  this, you know, staff is improved and in our recruiting
• 48:53
  and we be able to have a lot more You know, success and
• 48:56
  funnily enough, you know, it's it all of those sorts of things
• 49:00
  are fun. And it's still about the
• 49:02
  individual who, you know, gets more out of themselves.
• 49:05
  That is really the most appealing thing.
• 49:07
  And that's that's what it's always been, you know?
• 49:09
  But you know, sometimes you have those self-doubts and those time
• 49:12
  periods where you know you're not having as much of that and
• 49:15
  you're you know kind of wondering about those things.
• 49:17
  But yeah it's it's been a really, really interesting Road.
• 49:22
  You know, for you know, you know, what goes on in your own
• 49:25
  Mine doesn't coach but I you know you look back and and you
• 49:28
  you might have regrets and, you know, when and how you handled
• 49:32
  something or what you did as a coach and, but you know who
• 49:35
  doesn't have, you know, things that they learned from.
• 49:37
  And and so, you know, it's been something that I really would
• 49:40
  change necessarily either. Well, I appreciate your openness
• 49:45
  and authenticity there, you know, it's hard to sometimes
• 49:47
  especially when you know you're being recorded by the way, and
• 49:50
  everybody. Yeah, it's hard to come on here
• 49:52
  and say, hey, you know what, I don't know.
• 49:54
  That I was that great of Crew to start out with oh, yeah.
• 49:56
  And then, you know, handling all the things.
• 49:58
  And what you mentioned, you didn't say these words.
• 50:00
  But what you were describing, there is something called
• 50:03
  impostor syndrome that. Yeah, we all get it with their,
• 50:06
  you know, we get it in our jobs, we get it, as Fathers as mothers
• 50:09
  as kids in school. I've got a middle schooler, we
• 50:13
  all at some point in time. That's an overstatement to say
• 50:16
  all, but a lot of us will experience that.
• 50:18
  Like do I really belong here like is I'm really supposed to
• 50:21
  be a track coach, my supposed to be a sales professional.
• 50:25
  National my son at point x, where his Taekwondo and bands.
• 50:28
  Like, am I really supposed to be doing Taekwondo?
• 50:30
  I'm putting a lot of time in here, you know, as he starts
• 50:33
  singing about the features that really what I should be doing.
• 50:36
  And so I appreciate that openness and authenticity there
• 50:39
  because you know, when you were telling sharing your story
• 50:41
  there, you know I think about there is a fine line between
• 50:44
  confidence and self awareness. Yeah like you want to be
• 50:48
  confident as a recruiter and a coach but you need to have some
• 50:52
  self-awareness of like oh well I'm deficient in this.
• 50:55
  Yes, I need to do things to get better, or I've got it.
• 50:57
  Change this to become a better X, Y, or Z, recruiter husband,
• 51:01
  Etc. So, just interest, as your,
• 51:04
  you're expressing that, I was like, man, you know, recruiting,
• 51:07
  why would you someone like you struggle recruiting your your
• 51:10
  personable defect personality is one of the first things we
• 51:12
  talked about here today, you obviously have an enjoyment for
• 51:15
  the sport, you had success as a runner, you're at your alma
• 51:18
  mater. I have a big place in my heart
• 51:21
  for a Lumps who coach at their alma mater because like when you
• 51:24
  go to And you talk about how great your school is the old you
• 51:27
  have the ultimate proof. I want this.
• 51:28
  Yes. Like I chose this school.
• 51:29
  That's a great. This school is, you know.
• 51:31
  So and it's like, oh but I can see where it's like you have the
• 51:35
  self-doubt of like. What am I saying?
• 51:36
  The right things on my expressing things, right way, am
• 51:38
  I being true to myself, being true to the program Etc?
• 51:41
  And it's a little bit of that life experience.
• 51:43
  You just have to build on it and fail and get better and have
• 51:46
  successes and figure out. Why did you have a success?
• 51:49
  I can replicate it and just keep moving forward at every time.
• 51:53
  Yeah. And, and it's You know, it's
• 51:57
  it's something that as you as you coach longer, you really,
• 52:00
  really kind of starts to crystallize what is important to
• 52:03
  you as a coach and why you do what you do, and that's the best
• 52:06
  thing that I can talk about. You know, that I want to see you
• 52:10
  as an athlete be as successful as possible, certainly as a
• 52:13
  runner and as a student and really enjoy your time and that
• 52:16
  forms, you know, the whole, you know, start of a conversation
• 52:19
  with with an athlete but early on, even if that's true, you
• 52:23
  know, I I couldn't Express that really well.
• 52:26
  And and, and I couldn't, I couldn't like keep conversation
• 52:29
  going with, you know, someone who's more introverted and I
• 52:32
  felt, you know, kind of introverted myself and and so it
• 52:34
  was just, it was, it was, you know, it's a real process of
• 52:39
  kind of like being able to, to kind of figure out, you know,
• 52:44
  how, how, how you pass on that information and show them that
• 52:47
  you're really passionate about coaching and what's important
• 52:50
  and try to try to be honest and truthful while still, you know?
• 52:55
  Training. This is a great place, you know,
• 52:57
  to to be, you know. And that was that was something
• 53:01
  that you know is was did not come easily to me necessarily,
• 53:04
  you know. And and so and that's that's
• 53:07
  that's a big part of this job. You know, it's a big part of
• 53:10
  what you need to do and and you know some some place recruiting
• 53:14
  above, you know, even the coaching and in terms of how
• 53:17
  you're going to get to be successful, you know.
• 53:18
  And I think both are you know, very important but so that's
• 53:22
  that's something that you know is Was was, was definitely
• 53:27
  something that I had to tend to work on and to get better at,
• 53:30
  you know, and it and and and when and also, you know, you
• 53:34
  talk about imposter syndrome. The it's really easy to have a
• 53:38
  strong sense of confidence in the training that you're
• 53:41
  applying and and how you are motivating athletes.
• 53:44
  When things are going well and when you inevitably have, you
• 53:47
  know, the rougher races or rougher Seasons that, that is
• 53:51
  something where it can be hard to feel that same confidence.
• 53:54
  You have that sense of Am I, am I doing the right thing?
• 53:57
  And, and the point of it is, is there is going to be times that,
• 54:02
  you know, things don't go very smoothly, despite having a
• 54:04
  well-organized plan or, or maybe you did make some, you know,
• 54:09
  errors and you have to realize that to, you know, and and
• 54:11
  that's that's something that I think as as people get older and
• 54:15
  they might be more resilient or they learn how to be resilient
• 54:18
  and learn how to bounce back from things.
• 54:19
  And and that's something that, you know, you try to teach these
• 54:22
  18 and 19 year olds to do as well.
• 54:25
  You may have a tougher race but that doesn't indicate that you
• 54:30
  are just, you know, doomed for failure this year or whatever
• 54:33
  you are capable, you've put in the work.
• 54:35
  And so like, let's figure out how we can, you know, do things
• 54:38
  differently or adjust and change, but sometimes those
• 54:41
  words could be, you know, said to yourself and, and be just as
• 54:44
  useful, what a paradox to like, not, you know, you talk about
• 54:49
  having a bad race or Bad season, your things and go well, of not
• 54:53
  questioning yourself like having the Of like him.
• 54:55
  I'd is my training, right, but yet on the other side, always
• 54:58
  questioning yourself, like how I get better.
• 55:00
  Yeah, but what could I have done?
• 55:02
  Better in the real Paradox, is the real hard Choice.
• 55:05
  Here is, do you have those type of questions only when you have
• 55:08
  a bad race or Bad season or whatnot?
• 55:11
  Yeah. But can you actually do that
• 55:12
  when you have a good race and writes?
• 55:14
  These have like a what? So I know we won the conference
• 55:16
  title. We maybe we we hit the ultimate,
• 55:18
  we have the triple crown and everybody PR but what could I
• 55:21
  have done better? That's what.
• 55:22
  Yeah really hard because you're like Shouldn't change a thing.
• 55:25
  Look, what just happened? It was perfect reality.
• 55:28
  Is it wasn't perfect. You could have gotten better.
• 55:30
  So how do you continually ask the questions of how could I
• 55:33
  have gotten better for the team even though they had it exactly.
• 55:36
  And, and you, you want to replicate what you did.
• 55:39
  But also, you know, it's is it the Einstein quote that says,
• 55:43
  you know, if you're doing the same thing and expecting
• 55:45
  different results, you know, that it's insanity or whatever,
• 55:48
  you know that's it's it's your it's always going to be
• 55:51
  something that you probably need to evolve a little bit and
• 55:53
  change a little bit and If I give to athletes the same exact
• 55:57
  training, there's probably a different response by each of
• 56:00
  them their impact on their their own Fitness, you know, and so
• 56:04
  it's constantly. It's something where you
• 56:07
  constantly do you know, see what you can adjust and change and do
• 56:10
  better. But that's that's where that's
• 56:13
  where I need to get out of coaching.
• 56:14
  If I'm ever, you know, settling into well, this is just how
• 56:17
  we've always done it, let's just keep doing it that way.
• 56:19
  Well, then I think it's probably time to, you know, hang up the
• 56:21
  clipboard or whatever. The world's most dangerous,
• 56:25
  Dangerous statement. Well, that's how we've always
• 56:26
  done, exactly. Yo, man, soon as I hear that I'm
• 56:29
  like, all right. Well, let me tell you, I'm
• 56:30
  automatically, come on the defensive for you, haha.
• 56:35
  So talk to us about this transition.
• 56:37
  We're talking about a time when you're, you know, the assistant
• 56:39
  kind of cross over cross country and eventually working to the
• 56:42
  Head Cross Country Coach will. Again, spoiler alert, you're now
• 56:45
  the head coach of track and cross-country, how did that
• 56:48
  occur? And what do we?
• 56:50
  How do we get there? Yeah, I finished my masters in.
• 56:55
  The summer of 2013. And like I said, the longtime
• 56:59
  head track coach and cross country coach buzz, you know, at
• 57:04
  that time, you know, you know, put in for me, you know, and
• 57:08
  Pitch this to the University, Athletic Director, that I become
• 57:13
  the head Cross Country Coach and he would be the head track
• 57:16
  coach. And so, I feel very fortunate
• 57:18
  that he had that trust in me, and I felt like I had earned
• 57:23
  that, and that was something that That I was very, very
• 57:26
  appreciative of and so, so that was awesome.
• 57:30
  I got to start teaching some Wellness courses here at DS, you
• 57:34
  as well. And so, so that was great.
• 57:36
  And then then he ended up retiring a year later and he had
• 57:44
  probably had some thoughts of, you know, may be continuing for
• 57:47
  a few years, but had a wife, whose Health, you know, just
• 57:50
  needed some more care and that sort of thing.
• 57:51
  And so he he retired That time and and so, then I was able to
• 57:58
  become the head track coach, then before the 2014 season as
• 58:03
  well and buzzes always checking in on results, and keeping
• 58:06
  up-to-date, and all those things which is, which is awesome.
• 58:09
  But it was a but just just like me getting the assistant job in
• 58:13
  the first place. I feel very, you know, fortunate
• 58:15
  to have landed it and for, you know, the people here at DS you
• 58:19
  to think that I was was capable of, you know, and I owe this
• 58:23
  place a lot. you know, with with being able to run here and earn
• 58:27
  my education and had so many great teachers and professors
• 58:30
  and and then the job opportunity, you know, and the
• 58:33
  trust, you know, even, even when we had some down years in the
• 58:36
  conference, for example, that my athletic director had faith and
• 58:40
  in what we were doing and we've been able to bounce back from
• 58:44
  that fortunately you know, and so but yeah that's that's a
• 58:48
  that's kind of ended up in the you know overall head position
• 58:51
  and one thing I'll say you know about that is you know, I was
• 58:56
  you know, 2526 at that time and you know having Coast for a few
• 59:00
  years. I'm like yeah I'm ready to to be
• 59:03
  in charge, you know. I think I could I think I could
• 59:06
  handle this and do a good job. And and you know what it was it
• 59:11
  was a learning process. Just like getting getting the
• 59:13
  assistant job in the first place and in realizing the
• 59:16
  responsibilities that you have even having seen, you know, this
• 59:20
  this coach next to me doing it every day when when you have to
• 59:24
  ultimately Mately. Make the decision on things that
• 59:27
  becomes with a new sense of responsibility or even hiring
• 59:31
  assistance, and, and evaluating individuals.
• 59:34
  And, and all of those things, you know, that, you know, was,
• 59:37
  is your responsibility when you're the head coach.
• 59:39
  And so that, that that itself, you know, was, you know, the
• 59:42
  next few years, you know, really trying to, you know, do what I
• 59:45
  can not to just to be a coach to these athletes, but to try to be
• 59:48
  a leader of a whole program, and help my assistants have what
• 59:51
  they need to be successful and, and all of those things, too.
• 59:54
  And so, Um, I was really lucky to, you know, become a head
• 59:58
  coach at that age and I wouldn't change, you know, the
• 1:00:02
  experiences that I had but I searched.
• 1:00:04
  I certainly learned a lot, you know, from from going through
• 1:00:07
  that type of, you know transition and job and
• 1:00:12
  everything. Yeah.
• 1:00:13
  Got to give a big shout-out to buzz here gasps.
• 1:00:17
  You know one of my favorite questions and I'm still going to
• 1:00:19
  ask it when coach has become their first time head.
• 1:00:23
  Coaches were you prepared? And typically the answer is, no,
• 1:00:27
  yeah, your right arm and Buzz here, I'm just so proud of him
• 1:00:31
  for, you know, again, as an as an undergrad, as they assistant
• 1:00:35
  coach given you scheduling and Bud.
• 1:00:37
  Like, starting to get your feet wet in that side of it, like
• 1:00:40
  Bravo. That's what prepares our young
• 1:00:42
  coaches and even young. That's what prepares our
• 1:00:44
  assistant coaches to become more competent earlier.
• 1:00:48
  Head coaches. Yes, from the jump.
• 1:00:50
  They can be an effective head coach not, you know, stumble for
• 1:00:53
  the first season or two. Before ya go get their their
• 1:00:56
  rhythm going. So just so proud of that.
• 1:00:58
  And then they had the foresight to name you.
• 1:01:00
  The head Cross Country Coach, nothing perturbs me, more, when
• 1:01:03
  the head track coach, who's a Sprint's jumps throws?
• 1:01:06
  Whatever coach is also listed as the head cross-country coach.
• 1:01:10
  And so when the crush country domes well, and they named the,
• 1:01:12
  the you win and they named the head coach coach of the year and
• 1:01:15
  it's the throws head coach. And it's like, well yeah, come
• 1:01:18
  on now. And I know I'm not dismissing
• 1:01:20
  what you do as a head coach as a director?
• 1:01:21
  That's extremely important. But the person Was actually
• 1:01:25
  coaching the distance Runners is that's really the coach of the
• 1:01:28
  like that /. It's a different sport that she
• 1:01:30
  is the head coach. So again, shout out to buzz man.
• 1:01:33
  That's some fairly forward-thinking that does not
• 1:01:36
  happen. Commonly and definitely doesn't
• 1:01:38
  happen commonly enough in today's Collegiate coaching
• 1:01:43
  world man, so well, and yeah, exactly.
• 1:01:46
  It's something that, you know was, was, was awesome, you know,
• 1:01:50
  to kind of get into those responsibilities and, and give
• 1:01:54
  me the Sponsibility you know for it as well you know in something
• 1:01:57
  that really helped me a lot and even even on that note to, you
• 1:02:01
  know, I are throws Coach Alex Glover.
• 1:02:04
  He's been coaching here with me for, you know, nine years now.
• 1:02:07
  And we've had some excellent throwers and, and, and you know,
• 1:02:14
  all Americans and in recent years in discus and shot put and
• 1:02:18
  hammer throw. And and it is, I I tell my asid,
• 1:02:22
  it's like, you shouldn't put that stuff on my bike.
• 1:02:24
  Biography, you know, because I, you know, I love those athletes,
• 1:02:28
  you know. And they're, they're people that
• 1:02:30
  I try to, you know, have an impact on, but I do not, you
• 1:02:33
  know, coach them to their success.
• 1:02:34
  You know, that's coach coach Glover and the same with arse
• 1:02:37
  princes and all that too. And it's, but it's, it is it's
• 1:02:42
  Unique and it's hard, you know, for for outside, you know,
• 1:02:45
  sports-related people to see that because they don't think of
• 1:02:49
  it like that. But, you know, I view the
• 1:02:51
  program that I direct, you know, there is theirs.
• 1:02:55
  Multiple head coaches with their groups that they are working
• 1:02:58
  with. And I feel like it's my
• 1:03:00
  responsibility to, you know, try to Mentor everyone and be a
• 1:03:04
  person that can rely on and guide.
• 1:03:06
  But coach Glover is coaching their head coach of the throws.
• 1:03:10
  And and Coach, how he and coach Williams are head, coaches, the
• 1:03:13
  Sprints and so on, and so forth, you know?
• 1:03:15
  And so it's just, it's a unique sport in that sense.
• 1:03:18
  You know, it's many sports in in one sport, I'm conflicted there
• 1:03:23
  because on one hand, I was Immediately agreeing with you
• 1:03:26
  when the distance the head coaches, the distance coach in
• 1:03:29
  their bio. It's, you know, such and such
• 1:03:32
  thrower was a three-time All-American and I'm like, okay
• 1:03:34
  well yeah, obviously you know, you're the coach.
• 1:03:37
  So you had to make the decision to give that kid a scholarship
• 1:03:39
  or not, or allow them on the team.
• 1:03:40
  And you certainly give the throws coach resources to do
• 1:03:44
  their job properly. So certainly there is some point
• 1:03:47
  that their success you have. However, I know you weren't out
• 1:03:50
  there teaching them how to spend exactly.
• 1:03:52
  Yeah. Yep.
• 1:03:55
  My immediate reaction was like, oh yeah, I'm having percent with
• 1:03:56
  you on this and I agree with you.
• 1:03:57
  But then I started thinking about the baseball and
• 1:04:00
  basketball and football. Yeah, samples.
• 1:04:02
  Like I'm thinking of coached at Mississippi State and we had a
• 1:04:06
  Hall of Fame Legend head coach who, of course, is Name Escapes
• 1:04:11
  me right now, but he was a bit. He's a big dog, he's retired
• 1:04:13
  now. But, you know, he was the head
• 1:04:14
  coach Wright and I don't know what he actually coach.
• 1:04:17
  I'm sure they have a hitting. I know nothing about baseball,
• 1:04:19
  but I'm sure they have a baseball or a batting coach, and
• 1:04:22
  pitching coach and I'm sure maybe there's an outfield coach.
• 1:04:24
  I do. No.
• 1:04:26
  But, you know, you read his bio and Not only was it the team
• 1:04:29
  aspect like they finished first in the SEC or they went to the
• 1:04:32
  World Series, like, okay? He's the head coach.
• 1:04:34
  He gets those those credits, but I know they had, you know,
• 1:04:37
  Rafael palmeiro went to school there, like, you know, Rafael
• 1:04:40
  Pereira was a 20 time All-American for Coach coach
• 1:04:43
  bulk. That's it, was Ron Paul, huh?
• 1:04:45
  And it's like, okay, but he wasn't the batting coach, so
• 1:04:47
  there is another coach, but I get why?
• 1:04:49
  Because it's in the sense of the program.
• 1:04:51
  Yeah, yeah. And I think for like footballs
• 1:04:53
  like, you know, using Believe Me Hear You Illinois.
• 1:04:55
  It's like you know such quarterback did, x, y z and as I
• 1:04:58
  go, I know you had a quarterback coach now because I guess I do
• 1:05:00
  know in football, they got a coach for everything.
• 1:05:01
  They got they got a tight ends coach defense against code.
• 1:05:04
  Yep. Right Guard coach, you know,
• 1:05:06
  they got it, you know, they got a coach for every single
• 1:05:08
  position out there for crying out loud.
• 1:05:10
  Yeah. So yeah, I'm kind of conflicted
• 1:05:12
  cause it's like okay, yeah, oversee the program, you have to
• 1:05:15
  make a lot of decisions for the kids to be on the team and what
• 1:05:18
  level and you got to support your individual head.
• 1:05:21
  Coaches are you said I love how you said that you know, you get
• 1:05:23
  a support the throws coach and the Jumps coach.
• 1:05:25
  So there is a lot of accolades for the for the coach there, but
• 1:05:30
  but it is I think it's odd because we're so stats driven.
• 1:05:34
  So when you see throws, you know, thrower three times
• 1:05:37
  All-American with a School record of 60 feet in the shot
• 1:05:40
  and it's like yeah but we know you didn't do it just exactly.
• 1:05:43
  Yep. Where it's like you know, the
• 1:05:45
  quarterback throws for 5,000 yards or whatever and it's like
• 1:05:48
  okay yeah I know there's a quarterback coach but sure the
• 1:05:50
  head coach is the one who named the starter or whatever, you
• 1:05:54
  know. Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  Afflicted. They're actually, yeah, it's and
• 1:05:58
  it is very stats driven, you know, if it said, you know,
• 1:06:01
  so-and-so, athlete was an All-American under, you know,
• 1:06:05
  Anthony drillings program, it's one thing.
• 1:06:07
  But yeah, you know, I didn't coach trai to, you know, 14
• 1:06:10
  meters in the shot. Put, you know, for any any sense
• 1:06:13
  of the world, very conflicted, they're not a very opinionated
• 1:06:18
  person. So I thought I had a and see
• 1:06:23
  what they think about the yeah. So, so my favorite question for
• 1:06:28
  every person who becomes a new head coach, the very first time
• 1:06:31
  is, were you ready? Where you prepared and you seem
• 1:06:34
  to be one of the more prepared head coaches that we've had on
• 1:06:38
  the show here. Most coaches are like, oh yeah,
• 1:06:40
  I had no idea how to schedule. I had no idea how to budget.
• 1:06:42
  I didn't know you had to order equipment by blah blah blah.
• 1:06:45
  You seem to have had a lot of those experiences.
• 1:06:47
  So you get the the quote-unquote big chair.
• 1:06:50
  Was it, easy peasy? You found your Rhythm on day
• 1:06:52
  one? Because coached Stephenson
• 1:06:56
  prepared, you and Mentor do so well.
• 1:06:57
  Or was there some learning curves there?
• 1:07:00
  Yeah, the the I mean the short answer is no, you know, and a
• 1:07:03
  lot of things that I had the responsibility to do as an
• 1:07:07
  assistant where, you know things that I felt, you know,
• 1:07:12
  comfortable with. So is probably an easier
• 1:07:14
  transition than most, but being the ultimate decision-maker or
• 1:07:18
  or really making sure that everything goes well, at our
• 1:07:21
  home cross country meet, and having that full Sponsibility is
• 1:07:26
  is what I what I wasn't prepared for, you know, just to have
• 1:07:29
  that, you know, if things go wrong.
• 1:07:31
  You know, it's up to you to make a change or fix or or whatever
• 1:07:35
  and that's that's I don't know if I don't know if you
• 1:07:39
  ultimately can feel, you know, completely ready for that and
• 1:07:42
  until you had some of that experience.
• 1:07:44
  And and so maybe maybe maybe the answer is that, you know, it was
• 1:07:48
  ready, I was going to be but I definitely, you know, in those
• 1:07:51
  first few years of it of being a head coach, you know, you You
• 1:07:55
  have a lot of learning to do, you know, and decisions to make,
• 1:07:58
  and really, you know, kind of figure out how, how you need to
• 1:08:02
  be a good leader and, and hold people accountable and all those
• 1:08:07
  different types of things. And so, you know, some of the
• 1:08:10
  little things, you know, is are things that in terms of
• 1:08:13
  scheduling and all that, you know, are things that, you know,
• 1:08:16
  I felt more comfortable with but yeah, the ultimate
• 1:08:19
  responsibility of of the program, you know, falls on your
• 1:08:22
  shoulders. That that is not Something that
• 1:08:25
  I was like, yep, I'm super confident in.
• 1:08:27
  What I'm doing right away that that took time.
• 1:08:30
  You know? If we admit to ourselves we all
• 1:08:33
  have our strengths and weaknesses.
• 1:08:34
  You know, I'm not a very good planner actually, like I'm a
• 1:08:38
  much better freestyler. You know, if something comes
• 1:08:42
  gets thrown at me from Left Field, I'm a much better at
• 1:08:46
  figuring that out and making, whatever needs to happen happen
• 1:08:49
  off of that. Is that the nature of the
• 1:08:51
  podcast is, is, is it's just freestyle it.
• 1:08:55
  That's a good point. Because actually as I say that
• 1:08:57
  as like, but God bless for this podcast, I have to be very
• 1:08:59
  schedule because I'm dealing. Yeah, for sure.
• 1:09:01
  Yeah, you know, so I've got a schedule out, what I'm going to
• 1:09:03
  be on the road, I have to have already have them in the can and
• 1:09:05
  all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of there but
• 1:09:09
  you're right as anybody who, you know, for the alumni Gil
• 1:09:12
  connections, alumni that are listening right now, you know
• 1:09:15
  you don't get pre questions. Yeah, it's you.
• 1:09:19
  I'm always amazed at the knee that you guys and gals that say
• 1:09:22
  yes to the podcast because it's really What's the term I want to
• 1:09:27
  say here? It's really black boxes,
• 1:09:29
  meaning, I don't tell you, I basically tell you, no, man, we
• 1:09:32
  want to have you on here. We're going to flip the know.
• 1:09:33
  You were going to talk about your story.
• 1:09:35
  See you? Thursday.
• 1:09:37
  Yep. And there's no like okay.
• 1:09:40
  Like I mean you kind of told me how long?
• 1:09:42
  Yeah, we haven't scheduled for certain amount of time so I kind
• 1:09:45
  of know how long it's going to be but I don't know what
• 1:09:46
  questions you're going to ask me, do?
• 1:09:47
  I don't know if you're gonna throw me Kurt, like, are you
• 1:09:49
  gonna try to sometimes? And I, totally forgot to say
• 1:09:52
  this, in our pre-interview I always tell people like, hey,
• 1:09:53
  this is not gotcha. Journalism like yeah, trying to
• 1:09:57
  always tell people is I ain't trying to lose a customer over
• 1:09:59
  this thing you know. So so so there's a lot of trust
• 1:10:02
  I guess. Is really what it is?
• 1:10:03
  It's like man, you got to really trust that I'm gonna kind of
• 1:10:06
  take care of you as the host here and and guide you and make
• 1:10:08
  you look good that which that's the easy part because you know,
• 1:10:11
  no bad people ever make it to the show.
• 1:10:13
  So that's the yeah. Anyway.
• 1:10:15
  What I was getting to Anthony not hardly anybody ever turns it
• 1:10:18
  around and ask me. That's good.
• 1:10:20
  You're sort of trend that I gotta be careful with.
• 1:10:22
  Yeah, definitely. But So we both have our well
• 1:10:26
  ever strengths and weaknesses. Mine is more free-flowing than
• 1:10:29
  being actually buttoned up and organized when you like I'm
• 1:10:36
  always impressed when coaches like when they go to interview
• 1:10:39
  for a job and they come with like a book and they talked
• 1:10:42
  about like here's how I'm going to allocate, the scholarships
• 1:10:45
  here is a schedule. Here is a but like they already
• 1:10:48
  like they come to the interview with that.
• 1:10:49
  Yeah, as you moved into the head coaching role that were you the
• 1:10:53
  organized type? Like okay, here's how we're
• 1:10:55
  going to change things bubble and here's my reasoning.
• 1:10:57
  Why or was it more of like? Okay, I'm taking over something.
• 1:11:00
  I'll move it incrementally better every season as we go
• 1:11:04
  along based on how things move along.
• 1:11:07
  Yeah, it was definitely the second we're moving
• 1:11:09
  incrementally, you know, I didn't have an overview.
• 1:11:13
  No, huge, you know, 30,000-foot overview of, hey, this is where
• 1:11:17
  we need to go and what we need to do is it was definitely
• 1:11:20
  something that's it was, you know, here's here's what we can
• 1:11:23
  maybe, you know, change in the Short term, but it there was not
• 1:11:26
  a concrete plan and part of what's been really interesting
• 1:11:30
  in my years here. You know at Dakota state is is
• 1:11:35
  that we've just gone through, you know, some really massive
• 1:11:38
  changes in support and it's been awesome.
• 1:11:41
  We've had huge progress in the progression of, even our
• 1:11:47
  programs and degrees. Here adding adding a lot of
• 1:11:51
  programs, you know, and construction of new buildings
• 1:11:53
  and now athletic. Scylla T's and an increased in
• 1:11:56
  scholarship support. So I came from the days of
• 1:12:00
  running and coaching where we were a little bit leaner and
• 1:12:03
  leaner I would say in support and so that has been a really
• 1:12:07
  wild transition in my own mind in saying okay now I have
• 1:12:13
  additional you know scholarship dollars to work with you know
• 1:12:16
  where can we take this and what can we do and it's been good and
• 1:12:19
  bad because I have I feel very very blessed and lucky you know
• 1:12:24
  to Have these new resources to work with, but I also have to
• 1:12:27
  change my mindset a little bit of.
• 1:12:29
  Hey, this is, this is maybe what, you know, should be
• 1:12:33
  allocated to, you know, these types of athletes versus what we
• 1:12:36
  did in the old days and and, you know, in your recruiting,
• 1:12:39
  another level of athlete potentially to.
• 1:12:41
  And, and so, it's that kind of compounds the learning process
• 1:12:46
  for me, and just, that has changed a lot in my time here,
• 1:12:49
  and, and it's been awesome changes.
• 1:12:50
  But, you know, you kind of have to get out of the mindset.
• 1:12:54
  Dove well, like, you know, we got to make every, you know,
• 1:12:58
  dollar really lasts until until you can, you know, get what you
• 1:13:03
  need to get and that sort of thing too.
• 1:13:05
  And so, but anyways, you know, back to your original Point,
• 1:13:09
  that's been kind of the process of, like, figuring out where the
• 1:13:11
  program can go to because the expectations are a lot higher.
• 1:13:15
  Now, you know, we went from, you know, being at near the bottom
• 1:13:19
  or at the bottom in the conference across country
• 1:13:22
  championships and, you know, 2015 or whatever.
• 1:13:24
  ER, to now being able to, you know, win a few in the row and
• 1:13:27
  the men's side and place really high in the women's side.
• 1:13:30
  And and so, that expectation has grown, which has been great but
• 1:13:34
  it to say, I had this, you know, grand plan to get there was
• 1:13:37
  would not have been true at all, you know, we just tried to take
• 1:13:40
  it or incrementally and with that increase in support,
• 1:13:42
  really, try to change what we thought was possible to.
• 1:13:46
  Yeah, they're real amazing people.
• 1:13:47
  The unicorns are the people who are super organized but also can
• 1:13:51
  bend. So when that thing that you
• 1:13:53
  couldn't predict, Cat occurs. They just course-correct right
• 1:13:58
  back into their their plan. It's really because it's unicorn
• 1:14:00
  stuff. I it's not a, there's a, it's
• 1:14:03
  the 1% of the 1% people out there.
• 1:14:05
  Yeah. Yep.
• 1:14:06
  You know, a lot of people and there's a lot of people
• 1:14:08
  listening right now that you know they want to be a college
• 1:14:11
  head coach. Maybe I should change that.
• 1:14:13
  They think they want to be a college head coach because you
• 1:14:15
  know we just don't know what it is until you get there and you
• 1:14:17
  realize that ain't ya. Say the easiest job or the
• 1:14:20
  funnest job sometimes in the world you did it at such an
• 1:14:23
  early age. Age in the mid-20s there for
• 1:14:26
  you. Who do you were there and you
• 1:14:29
  still had coach Stephenson there as the to bounce off.
• 1:14:32
  Where there are other people other mentors in this role as a
• 1:14:35
  head coach that you've been able to kind of pick the brain of so
• 1:14:38
  to speak. Yeah you know I had I had a few
• 1:14:44
  different distance coaches as I mentioned before you know when I
• 1:14:47
  was running here that coached me and those were always
• 1:14:49
  individuals that I could rely on and pick the brain of and then
• 1:14:54
  also you Head coaches here at VSU and other sports that were
• 1:14:59
  very helpful in many ways as well, you know, a softball coach
• 1:15:04
  from several years ago can park was one where I got to know
• 1:15:08
  really well and and bounce ideas off of our current women's
• 1:15:11
  basketball head coach, David mode, they've made a couple of
• 1:15:14
  national tournaments in a row now and been really successful,
• 1:15:17
  I really, really appreciate his his insight and how he runs this
• 1:15:22
  program and we have a lot of Dual Sport athlete.
• 1:15:24
  Cleats together, actually women's basketball players and
• 1:15:27
  then run outdoor track. And so we're always recruiting
• 1:15:29
  together and to but you know that's another individual that I
• 1:15:33
  just really, you know, can appreciate, you know as well and
• 1:15:38
  learn learn a lot of. And I will also say, you know,
• 1:15:41
  as I'm 34 now and I really have hopefully grown and I know I've,
• 1:15:48
  you know, grown and gotten better at this but you know, my
• 1:15:50
  assistance in really, really trying to make sure That I not
• 1:15:56
  just listen to, you know, their thoughts.
• 1:15:58
  But, you know, try to take some of their advice and, you know,
• 1:16:01
  there's a give-and-take in that sometimes you don't have to make
• 1:16:03
  decisions that, you know, they might not know the information
• 1:16:06
  of or, you know, they don't necessarily agree with.
• 1:16:08
  But on the flip side, A lot of times, they have really good
• 1:16:11
  insight into maybe, what's a good idea and those sorts of
• 1:16:14
  things, too, and when you're an assistant coach, you know, you
• 1:16:17
  might even have better insight into some of the athletes
• 1:16:20
  thoughts or what they're dealing with over me as the head coach.
• 1:16:23
  And so those are all Ways, you know, people in friends and
• 1:16:27
  co-workers, you know that I really start to realize that hey
• 1:16:32
  you know, don't don't disregard, you know their thoughts and and
• 1:16:36
  you know I can take into consideration and that's what I
• 1:16:39
  think. I've gotten better at over the
• 1:16:40
  years is hey if we have a decision to be made and I want
• 1:16:44
  some input will like, let's sit down and say, hey, what do you
• 1:16:46
  think about this, you know, or what do you think about this
• 1:16:49
  situation and take that into play too?
• 1:16:51
  Because they're here, they're in the program, but they might even
• 1:16:54
  have Better insight into a particular athlete for example,
• 1:16:57
  or or, you know, what would be useful or that sort of thing
• 1:17:00
  too. So those are, you know,
• 1:17:01
  hopefully, all people that I've been able to reciprocate some
• 1:17:07
  help to, you know, but have been have been great people that have
• 1:17:12
  guided me to some of us want to become a head coach for the
• 1:17:16
  control Factor. We think we can control more
• 1:17:19
  etcetera and, you know, you have hindsight now, you might not
• 1:17:23
  have appreciated. I did it.
• 1:17:25
  But when Buzz was giving you different aspects to oversee,
• 1:17:29
  that was his way of relinquishing control.
• 1:17:31
  Taco, I can, you know, I'm going to trust you to do X, Y, and Z.
• 1:17:36
  I told you to put a pin in that. Yeah, how are you doing?
• 1:17:40
  As a head coach? Now, with your assistance?
• 1:17:42
  Now you've got the control, you can either do it all the other,
• 1:17:45
  you can delegate. That famous word, how are you
• 1:17:47
  doing with your assistance and delegating and, and really
• 1:17:50
  preparing them for potentially, maybe not head coaches, maybe
• 1:17:54
  they will. Become head coach has, either,
• 1:17:55
  they are elsewhere, but even just better assistant, coaches.
• 1:17:59
  How are you doing in that ass? It's definitely something that
• 1:18:02
  I've gotten better at, you know, even but opposed to, you know,
• 1:18:06
  four or five years ago. But I, you know, I even last
• 1:18:10
  year in evaluating and having the discussion with one of my
• 1:18:14
  assistants, you know, he told me, hey, I can, I can I can help
• 1:18:18
  out more of this, or I can do more with this and that's just a
• 1:18:21
  sign to me, that, you know, we have, we have coaches, who are
• 1:18:23
  willing and able Able and want to learn these things.
• 1:18:26
  And those are, those are things that I have to even continue to
• 1:18:29
  do better on. So, the, the truth of it is, is
• 1:18:32
  it can be, it can be something that I, that improve on.
• 1:18:35
  And that's, it's, it's, it's a strange thing.
• 1:18:38
  I think, you know, the control and the, you know, doing things,
• 1:18:42
  you know, I kind of view it as hey, I'm the head coach and it's
• 1:18:46
  my responsibility to do these things.
• 1:18:48
  Not as much of the control, or maybe maybe that's my ego
• 1:18:51
  talking and it is, it is that way, but A you know you also
• 1:18:56
  have to you also have to you know, delegate those things and
• 1:19:00
  realize that you know if you if you do a good job of working
• 1:19:03
  with your assistance and helping them along, they could do just
• 1:19:06
  as well or even better with something and that helps them as
• 1:19:09
  a professional to. Yeah, I think sometimes we don't
• 1:19:13
  want to delegate and help someone get better because we're
• 1:19:15
  afraid of like, oh man what did they leave?
• 1:19:16
  You know what if I prepare them for head coach and they go and
• 1:19:19
  leave will for sure. Yeah and I'm reminded there's
• 1:19:22
  this. It's kind of in the business
• 1:19:23
  world and if it's a We made it coaching world before we talk
• 1:19:26
  about the same thing, with our own, professional development,
• 1:19:28
  with our, our people here and it's like man, I want them to
• 1:19:31
  become better because they'll be better servants for our coaches
• 1:19:33
  and our dealer Network Etc. And it's like, well, what if you
• 1:19:36
  train them up, you spend all this money and time into them.
• 1:19:37
  They leave and out in there. The flip side of that is, well,
• 1:19:41
  what if I don't the also, they don't get better and they stay.
• 1:19:44
  Yeah, yeah. It's like oh, so.
• 1:19:46
  Like I'll keep the person, you know, low and not educated, not
• 1:19:49
  better. But that means that the person
• 1:19:51
  is going to be on your team. That's that's not good.
• 1:19:53
  We want them to continue. Improving to better.
• 1:19:55
  So they can do their jobs and passions better.
• 1:19:58
  Yeah, even reading one of Mike krzyzewski's books from dookie.
• 1:20:02
  He always talked about hiring people who want to be a head
• 1:20:05
  coach someday because those are going to be people who want to
• 1:20:08
  learn all the ins and outs and do a good job.
• 1:20:11
  And so that's something that you know I remember that kind of
• 1:20:15
  like hitting me in the head you know, when I read the book like
• 1:20:19
  well that makes a lot of logical sense.
• 1:20:21
  So that's something that, you know, you should try to work
• 1:20:24
  your Own assistance into, you know and and and take upon that
• 1:20:28
  responsibility. That's interesting.
• 1:20:30
  You mentioned Coach K that icon and I immediately thought of
• 1:20:33
  another icon, Nick Saban. Yeah, he's always hiring people.
• 1:20:36
  I mean, look how many head coaches came from?
• 1:20:38
  Yes tree. How many head coaches?
• 1:20:40
  I get fired which by the way, that's the best college job.
• 1:20:43
  You can have is a fired college, football coach.
• 1:20:46
  Yep. I mean 15 million to go away.
• 1:20:50
  There was a funny, you know, a doors are on.
• 1:20:52
  I saw his quote. Yeah.
• 1:20:53
  Where he was like, When do you want me to leave?
• 1:20:55
  And what door do you want? Yo.
• 1:20:57
  Yep. That's great.
• 1:20:58
  Yeah, and I have no doubt. He actually said that today.
• 1:21:00
  Did I just know for sure? His personality but but you
• 1:21:04
  know, Nick hires a lot. Yeah, I'm on a first-name basis
• 1:21:07
  with him so Nick. Yes, hires a lot of, you know,
• 1:21:10
  former head coach and they talked about, he were your
• 1:21:12
  Rehabilitation, which, you know, I don't buy into that.
• 1:21:14
  But but he has all these people and it's like, oh man, you're
• 1:21:17
  surrounding yourself with former head.
• 1:21:18
  Coach has people who want to be head coaches.
• 1:21:21
  Yep and you're like actively bring it like it's almost like
• 1:21:24
  Like it is that is that the secret sauce?
• 1:21:26
  Like, right? Surround yourself with great
• 1:21:28
  people and yes they may leave. But because of that.
• 1:21:30
  Success. You'll attract other successful
• 1:21:33
  people? Yeah, program.
• 1:21:34
  It's quite interesting. Yeah.
• 1:21:36
  Well Anthony as we start to wrap up here today, you know it's
• 1:21:40
  amazing. Again I told you I was just such
• 1:21:41
  a soft spot in my heart for alumni who coach at their alma
• 1:21:45
  mater. As we start looking into, you
• 1:21:47
  know, we're in the middle of cross country season here in
• 1:21:49
  2022, we've got this a great track season coming up here in
• 1:21:52
  2023. What's got you excited?
• 1:21:54
  For Dakota State and your program.
• 1:21:57
  Well, you know, right here in the here and now I think both
• 1:22:02
  are men and women have have an opportunity to to win a
• 1:22:06
  conference title in cross-country.
• 1:22:07
  And so we're obviously working towards that.
• 1:22:10
  We have to go up to Dickinson, North Dakota in November for
• 1:22:13
  conference. So you know, could be beautiful,
• 1:22:15
  it could be snowy. But I've been I've been
• 1:22:18
  exceptionally proud of our team this fall.
• 1:22:21
  They've been working really hard and they've been they've been
• 1:22:24
  running. Running well, and even above and
• 1:22:26
  beyond that. It's just this group seems very
• 1:22:29
  exceptional in their connection with one another.
• 1:22:32
  And we've had great teams that, you know, are really, really
• 1:22:35
  close knit. But we have a great group of
• 1:22:37
  upperclassmen who have just done a phenomenal job of creating
• 1:22:40
  that type of culture and so very very proud of that and that's
• 1:22:45
  really kind of, you know, all across our track team.
• 1:22:47
  So we're striving towards that right now.
• 1:22:49
  And then we had a really, really good recruiting class in In
• 1:22:55
  track as well. And a lot of throwers actually
• 1:22:59
  that are going to be that are working with Coach Glover, so
• 1:23:01
  that depth is going to be better than ever.
• 1:23:03
  And so again we're you know for for track you know we're
• 1:23:06
  hopefully striving to win a few Conference titles as well.
• 1:23:11
  We have a another two years of being the host Institution for
• 1:23:16
  the NAIA Indoor national championships.
• 1:23:18
  And we've hosted that the past few years at the South Dakota
• 1:23:21
  state facility, I think it's South Dakota state, Is the host,
• 1:23:25
  but that's right. Yeah, actually, yeah absorbed.
• 1:23:27
  Yeah, we work with, think about that.
• 1:23:28
  Yeah. We work with obviously SDSU
• 1:23:32
  staff up there and everything but that's been, you know, just
• 1:23:36
  an extraordinary awesome learning experience for for us,
• 1:23:40
  you know, to be able to host and try to do a good job at that.
• 1:23:43
  And and it's been, it's been really awesome for our athletes
• 1:23:46
  that qualify, you know, because we race up there so often it's
• 1:23:50
  just it's a great place to go, run Nationals, especially for
• 1:23:53
  us, you know? And so that's been a lot of fun.
• 1:23:56
  So we're really excited for that as well.
• 1:23:58
  Tell me more about that because I so funny, you mentioned South
• 1:24:01
  Dakota State and I immediately I knew NAIA Nationals were there
• 1:24:04
  and I just think of them as being the host but they're not
• 1:24:06
  any IA. What, what's your responsibility
• 1:24:09
  like we talked about, you know, hosting like a conference
• 1:24:13
  Championship and you know, you got to do, more fire putting out
• 1:24:15
  than actual coaching, what's the role of you and your staff and
• 1:24:19
  Dakota State at South Dakota State for the Nationals?
• 1:24:22
  Yeah. So we we We are my athletic
• 1:24:25
  director really spearheaded this to to bid for it and he's been
• 1:24:31
  the one instrumental in finding sponsors and that sort of aspect
• 1:24:35
  of it. And then we do hire an outside
• 1:24:39
  meet director. And then I, and, and, and our
• 1:24:43
  staff work really closely with him for everything, meet
• 1:24:45
  management related, you know, everything that goes into the
• 1:24:49
  meat. So, you know, we're helping
• 1:24:51
  higher, higher officials, you know, find A lodging for them
• 1:24:55
  and make sure that they have everything that they need to be
• 1:24:59
  to be doing a great job, as well as everything.
• 1:25:03
  And then, we actually work with some of the SDSU staff and some
• 1:25:06
  of the coaches to just make sure the facility is ready to go and
• 1:25:11
  that's all prepared there as well.
• 1:25:12
  So there's a, there's a lot of different, you know, people that
• 1:25:15
  are involved with it. But, you know, we're, we're
• 1:25:17
  really doing everything on the meat management side of helping
• 1:25:21
  out, you know, and making sure that from an officiating.
• 1:25:24
  Point and and the team standpoint, they get where they
• 1:25:27
  need to go and, and, and have the resources that they need and
• 1:25:30
  everything regard to that. So you're busy, it's fun, doing
• 1:25:35
  that and running a program and coaching and, you know,
• 1:25:38
  supporting your staff, holy cow, you know, the great part about
• 1:25:41
  the national championships as opposed to maybe running your,
• 1:25:45
  you know, small home meat is that you have a ton of
• 1:25:49
  interested officials in is in officiating.
• 1:25:52
  And of course we have a budget for that and And in and pay
• 1:25:56
  them. So that's, that's it's certainly
• 1:25:59
  a lot of work. But, you know, in comparison to
• 1:26:02
  like us hosting a, you know, a whole meet here in Madison,
• 1:26:05
  where you're, you know, really searching for volunteers and
• 1:26:08
  that sort of thing. It's not as bad as that because
• 1:26:11
  you have so many people interested in, you know, either
• 1:26:14
  being hired to fish bait or even volunteering that you have a you
• 1:26:18
  have a lot of help and on that our athletes as well you know
• 1:26:21
  the ones who don't qualify, you know, we usually have them help
• 1:26:23
  out too. You know, and it's great
• 1:26:25
  experience to so it takes some organization, but there's really
• 1:26:30
  a lot of interest in, you know, being part of it which is, which
• 1:26:33
  is awesome, of course, and makes a makes it a pretty smooth,
• 1:26:37
  that's cool. Yeah, I never even thought it
• 1:26:39
  like so I always think of South Dakota State and then you think
• 1:26:42
  about it. Yeah.
• 1:26:42
  Well, they're not any ice, they can't be the host institution,
• 1:26:44
  that's amazing. So because so much goes into,
• 1:26:46
  you know, where the NCAA equipment sponsor.
• 1:26:49
  So we you know, do the um D2 and D3 and you know we're we're you
• 1:26:53
  know, maybe one of the more visible It's easy to see the
• 1:26:55
  hurdles in the pits and all that kind of stuff, but we're this
• 1:26:59
  much of the champion we're so tight, you know?
• 1:27:00
  It's a hot 100's almost thousands of athletes.
• 1:27:04
  Hundreds of coaches, lodging, you know, travel.
• 1:27:09
  I mean there's so much to put it on these championships, it's
• 1:27:13
  marketing, some for tickets. Say, I mean, it's it's quite
• 1:27:16
  amazing. What?
• 1:27:18
  Goes in same thing at the Nei championships.
• 1:27:20
  I'm getting all these teams from around the country into this
• 1:27:23
  place and then Being able to have the meat, run off as not as
• 1:27:26
  smooth as possible but run the meat off smooth, so that people
• 1:27:29
  all have a fair chance to do their best and let the the
• 1:27:32
  points lay out where they go, man, it's Quite a feat.
• 1:27:35
  Really. And that's the most important
• 1:27:36
  thing is that, you know, it's a national championships and these
• 1:27:40
  athletes have the opportunity to, you know, go out and do what
• 1:27:44
  got them there and perform well, you know, and that's that's,
• 1:27:47
  that's something that's great with our, meet director, and our
• 1:27:51
  officiating staff. They, they know that that's
• 1:27:54
  that's Hair into, you know, into what they're all about is is
• 1:27:57
  putting on a meat for the athletes.
• 1:27:59
  And that's, that's really what it comes down to, you know.
• 1:28:02
  And so it's, it's been really cool to be a part of that.
• 1:28:06
  And, and, and really great from a learning experience, you know,
• 1:28:08
  as a coach to well, you got ya, right?
• 1:28:11
  That's didn't think that was ever going to be on your resume.
• 1:28:13
  Uh no, no, absolutely not. No, well, I tell you, you know I
• 1:28:18
  appreciate what you guys do for the knee, I championships and
• 1:28:21
  what South Dakota state does, you know, it's you can't sleep
• 1:28:24
  on the NAIA, you know it because you can't sleep.
• 1:28:26
  You were, you lie awake every night thinking, like how in the
• 1:28:28
  world am I gonna win a conference?
• 1:28:30
  And what it is? You go and look at the results
• 1:28:36
  on a yearly basis. And it's like, man, you got to
• 1:28:39
  bring your A game. Yeah, so when this thing in the
• 1:28:42
  win a trophy, this it's no joke and it's coming down to the 4 by
• 1:28:46
  4 and the the marathon points, added in there and everything,
• 1:28:50
  it's quite an amazing feat. So it's, you know, the NAIA
• 1:28:54
  level Is it's just a different level you know I don't I don't
• 1:28:57
  drink it. Where D 1 d 2 D 3 it's people
• 1:29:00
  men and women like you getting after it with young people 18 to
• 1:29:03
  22 year olds around the country and around the world, making
• 1:29:06
  them better getting them all to do their best at when it counts
• 1:29:09
  the most man it's Quite a feat it's really amazing you know and
• 1:29:13
  I will say personally you know me running at the any eye level
• 1:29:18
  and not having been exceptional out of high school.
• 1:29:22
  I had the The the best coaches that I could ask for people that
• 1:29:26
  genuinely cared and knew a lot about the sport and and guided
• 1:29:30
  me along ways. And you see that in the high
• 1:29:32
  school realm of things, and you see that in the professional
• 1:29:34
  realm of things. And the great thing was that,
• 1:29:37
  you know, I looked at Danny, I Nationals something that might
• 1:29:40
  be achievable someday. And I could get to and and I was
• 1:29:43
  fortunate enough to do so and run its own National meets.
• 1:29:47
  But man, you look at, look at the end or national
• 1:29:49
  championships from last year at SDSU and some of the times that
• 1:29:53
  were posted it It's, it's getting tougher and tougher and
• 1:29:58
  you know, that is, that's a pretty eye-opening, you know,
• 1:30:01
  even for are really successful freshman.
• 1:30:03
  It's like, whoa, I got to run that to get to Nationals and
• 1:30:05
  this is what it takes to be an All-American.
• 1:30:07
  It's it's really, really, really competitive, you know.
• 1:30:11
  And so it's a, it's pretty cool to see, you know, when coaches
• 1:30:14
  talk about how hard it is, to make Nationals, no matter which
• 1:30:17
  national is. I just look back on.
• 1:30:18
  That was like, well, you know, it's your fault right?
• 1:30:20
  Like, yes, if you weren't such a good coach, it'd be much easier
• 1:30:23
  to make it. Here.
• 1:30:24
  It's like you guys have your own self to blame for this one.
• 1:30:26
  Yep, absolutely. Well man, Anthony thank you so
• 1:30:31
  much for being here today. You know, one of the most
• 1:30:34
  valuable things you can ever give us as your time and you
• 1:30:36
  know you're right in the middle of cross season.
• 1:30:38
  You're trying to win Conference titles.
• 1:30:40
  It's never a good time to do this.
• 1:30:44
  So I'm always amazed when you know, you guys and gals.
• 1:30:46
  Say yes and join us here on the podcast.
• 1:30:48
  I'm just so thankful really for your openness and authenticity,
• 1:30:51
  you know, it's really interesting to see your
• 1:30:54
  Background as a head coach at such a young age.
• 1:30:57
  It's going to be really interesting, like I'm a big
• 1:31:00
  long-term thinker. Like I'm, you know, I'm thinking
• 1:31:03
  10, 15, 20 years out of head every day so I'm really
• 1:31:07
  interested and excited to see, you know, as a mid 30 year old
• 1:31:10
  guy which you know, it's like it's so pretty.
• 1:31:12
  You're like a little puppet Psychiatry for man, come on out.
• 1:31:15
  Barely into my third career, as 34 year-old, you know but you
• 1:31:19
  got such deep experience as a 34 year old.
• 1:31:23
  What's it going to be? As a 44, 54 and 64.
• 1:31:27
  Like it's, I know it's hard sometimes for you to see because
• 1:31:29
  you're in the muck every day with this, but my man.
• 1:31:32
  Here's what's so exciting to me, is, you know, using a 400-meter
• 1:31:35
  Dash is an analogy, you are barely at the starting line.
• 1:31:40
  I know, sometimes it feels like, man.
• 1:31:41
  I've, you know, on the downside of my career, I'm 34 I'll
• 1:31:45
  probably be retired 155. And I'm speaking and going down.
• 1:31:49
  No, no, you're barely at the starting line, you know, with
• 1:31:52
  modern technology, you're going to go to your 78.
• 1:31:54
  You 90 years old, if you think about it this way, you know, you
• 1:31:58
  started coaching at 22, ish, right?
• 1:32:00
  So, you've been coaching for 12 years, let's just use Easy
• 1:32:02
  numbers, right? Even cooking for 12 years,
• 1:32:05
  you're going to, you know, you're not going to retire.
• 1:32:07
  You check the stock market, you can be overtired till ya see
• 1:32:09
  five. That's it.
• 1:32:10
  The earliest. Right?
• 1:32:11
  That's 30. More years.
• 1:32:13
  That's two and a half times more than you've been coaching today.
• 1:32:17
  Yeah, that's why I say, man, you are, you're not even you think
• 1:32:20
  you're at halftime brother, you ain't even at the starting line.
• 1:32:22
  So it's gonna be so exciting to see.
• 1:32:24
  See this next decade. The decade after it.
• 1:32:27
  What? You get accomplished.
• 1:32:28
  The people, you surround yourself with the
• 1:32:30
  accomplishments that you have a Dakota State and then just
• 1:32:32
  bigger and better things that you're going to continue to grow
• 1:32:34
  into and Lead. Whether it's one day, you're the
• 1:32:36
  athletic director Dakota state, for crying out loud.
• 1:32:39
  So it's gonna be so fun to see you kind of do a check in with
• 1:32:41
  you, here in the future and just see, you know, your story
• 1:32:44
  continues to grow and where that leads us to a man.
• 1:32:47
  So I'm just so excited for you. Well, I appreciate that and
• 1:32:51
  thanks for thanks for having me on and, you know, as And by no
• 1:32:55
  means do I, you know, have a really great philosophically
• 1:33:02
  philosophy on life but you do kind of realize you don't really
• 1:33:05
  know what you don't know. And so it's definitely you
• 1:33:09
  definitely realize as a coach. So I'll you're probably going to
• 1:33:11
  be a bit better and two years and even better and for years
• 1:33:14
  and and hopefully I can keep improving in in in the
• 1:33:19
  profession. And but but yeah, thanks for
• 1:33:22
  having me and it's been it's been Awesome.
• 1:33:24
  I'm going to give you your philosophy.
• 1:33:26
  I heard someone say I came who was I'm sure someone famous.
• 1:33:28
  They said, yeah, the end of the day we're all making it up as we
• 1:33:31
  go along. Yeah.
• 1:33:32
  And that's really true, whether you're a seventy-year-old,
• 1:33:35
  you've been doing the profession for 50 years, whatever?
• 1:33:37
  Well, it's different today than it was yesterday.
• 1:33:39
  So, we're all make it up as we go along, making the best
• 1:33:42
  decisions that we can using the experience.
• 1:33:44
  Using the mentors, the people that have poured into our lives
• 1:33:47
  using our goals, and our passions to drive those
• 1:33:50
  decisions. So there's your philosophy.
• 1:33:51
  You just make it up every day man.
• 1:33:52
  Yeah. A good decisions, and that's
• 1:33:55
  really where success comes from, man.
• 1:33:57
  So, thanks again for being here today.
• 1:33:58
  And thank you for being here, listening, man.
• 1:34:00
  I'm just always so humbled and honored that people come back
• 1:34:04
  weekly. We do this every week and we
• 1:34:06
  don't make this easy on you. This ain't a 15 20 Minute
• 1:34:09
  Podcast, we're past the hour and a half mark here, and you're
• 1:34:12
  still here. And I think that is a real Real
• 1:34:14
  Testament to the men and women that we have here on the
• 1:34:17
  podcast. So, you know, we're in October
• 1:34:19
  31st, we're getting to November. We're getting close to ending
• 1:34:22
  our third season and guess what We're going to keep making it
• 1:34:25
  up. As we go along, we're continuing
• 1:34:27
  to improve. We've already got season 4 on
• 1:34:29
  Deck, got some great surprises. New things coming for you, were
• 1:34:32
  always going to try to evolve and get better, just like you do
• 1:34:34
  out there in the coaching world. So, thank you for being here
• 1:34:37
  today. If you enjoyed this episode,
• 1:34:39
  share it with someone, you know, the experience that Anthony has
• 1:34:41
  and the ups and downs that he's had.
• 1:34:44
  Those are important things for other people to hear.
• 1:34:46
  There's, there's a little bit of the, you know, just knowing that
• 1:34:49
  other people go through some of the same stuff that you do.
• 1:34:51
  And so hearing these people hearing these stories, Or he's
• 1:34:54
  being shared that's important to help our continued.
• 1:34:57
  Moving our profession forward professionally, salary-wise
• 1:35:03
  happiness, fulfillment Etc. So share it with someone that
• 1:35:06
  you think might enjoy it and get some value out of it.
• 1:35:09
  Otherwise, we'll see you next week.
• 1:35:11
  We're going to do it all over again and have another amazing
• 1:35:12
  person into the hot seat and they have no idea what questions
• 1:35:14
  I'm going to ask. So see you next week and thanks
• 1:35:16
  a lot. Have a good one.
• 1:35:26
  Thanks Mike what an incredible journey coach has been on so
• 1:35:29
  awesome to hear their story in their own words, tremendous
• 1:35:31
  proof of the positive effect coaches, make on a daily basis.
• 1:35:35
  Help us spread the word of this. Great journey by sharing on your
• 1:35:37
  favorite social, media channel. And don't forget to take a
• 1:35:40
  minute to rate and review the podcast.
• 1:35:42
  You just might get a shout out on a future episode, that's it
• 1:35:45
  for today. Join us next week, when we'll
• 1:35:47
  connect you with another amazing coach.