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Rick Wiltshire | The Christian Reeve Podcast #354 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian
• 0:02
  Reef Podcast. Today's guest is an actor and a
• 0:06
  musician, and he is the bassist for 40,000 Leagues.
• 0:10
  Welcome to the show Rick Wiltshire, how you doing?
• 0:13
  I'm not too bad, thanks. Thank you so much for having me
• 0:14
  on the show. It's good.
• 0:16
  Take two. We're trying again because the
• 0:18
  first time didn't work because you were living in 2000s
• 0:21
  Internet. So what's it like?
• 0:23
  Prior to that it was dial up Internet to.
• 0:25
  Be honest, dial up. Was it actually dialogue?
• 0:28
  No, it wasn't really dialogue for much longer than anyone else
• 0:31
  did at my high school though, so.
• 0:36
  All right, man, why? Why did you want?
• 0:38
  To be on the show, actually, I'm, I'm intrigued because I, I
• 0:40
  get, sometimes I get people that I either I know or I know food
• 0:45
  people because as you may or may not know, I interview people all
• 0:49
  around the world. People have asked me before how
• 0:53
  I get people on the show. And it's, it's kind of a mixed
• 0:55
  bag really. In more recent years, it's been
• 0:59
  people reaching out. Sometimes I'll reach out to
• 1:02
  someone if I feel like it might work.
• 1:06
  I don't know. I mean, it's, it's, I know how
• 1:08
  it sounds, but it's, it's, it is kind of tricky finding podcast
• 1:12
  guests because not everyone is necessarily on board with
• 1:18
  talking for a long time. You know, even even sometimes
• 1:23
  there'll be people that you think like, Oh yeah, like, yeah,
• 1:25
  I can do this, this would be good.
• 1:26
  And then and then you do it and it's like pulling teeth.
• 1:29
  And it's, I don't know. I mean, I, I think sometimes
• 1:34
  there's some misconceptions about what a podcast actually is
• 1:37
  in the traditional sense. Because I know these days
• 1:40
  podcasts are just clip farming and, you know, stroking people's
• 1:44
  egos and kind of shit really, to be honest.
• 1:48
  But I like to just do it El Clasico style.
• 1:52
  But I'm intrigued to get an outsider's opinion.
• 1:54
  What say you? What was your interest?
• 1:57
  So there was a couple of reasons, because we've sort of
• 2:01
  skirted around one another room project for a while and I
• 2:04
  realized we've never actually met before, which I found quite
• 2:06
  interesting. We've done.
• 2:08
  So you've worked with Dan McGee quite a few times.
• 2:11
  I'm on the show with Dan McGee. He's a lovely dude.
• 2:13
  He's also an incredible actor. I've worked with him about eight
• 2:17
  years on and off. Obviously I've seen your music
• 2:21
  videos and stuff like that when Dan's shared them, when you've
• 2:23
  shared them. So I think with the world of
• 2:27
  acting, you end up sort of knowing people without knowing
• 2:30
  people either through friends. So I feel like it was a little
• 2:33
  bit of that situation. And then when I saw the music, I
• 2:36
  was like, well, we can chat music as well.
• 2:38
  I've in a in a very, in a sort of a business where I've got
• 2:44
  stuff to provide with the band as well.
• 2:45
  So, yeah, yeah. We.
• 2:52
  Won't talk about that at all, don't worry.
• 2:55
  Yeah, I just found it interesting that we've never
• 2:57
  actually met in real life to my knowledge, but we've somehow
• 3:02
  interacted with a lot of the same people.
• 3:03
  I just find stuff like that interesting.
• 3:05
  I know what you mean. Manchester is a small place and
• 3:10
  yes, inevitable, especially with acting.
• 3:13
  Everyone ends up working with everyone and it's kind of funny.
• 3:16
  It's like, it's a bit like living in a small town or a
• 3:20
  village and everyone ends up like knowing everyone's
• 3:23
  business. It's a bit like that.
• 3:26
  Yeah, it's like a small town of over 1,000,000 people, and yet
• 3:29
  somehow you do end up knowing all the yeah, it's weird, but
• 3:35
  it's honestly true. I think what it is as well is
• 3:38
  like you get, let's face it, you've got everyone involved
• 3:42
  with acting in Manchester. And then there's some people who
• 3:47
  you know, they've got like something going on.
• 3:49
  Like there's, there's a girl I worked with recently and she got
• 3:52
  like a role on Hollyoaks and she's doing really well.
• 3:55
  And then you've got like the rest of us who like aren't
• 3:59
  really fucking going anywhere. And it's, it's interesting
• 4:03
  because it's like we're all passionate about it.
• 4:05
  We all love what we do, but we're all at different levels.
• 4:09
  Like for me, so I'm, I'm at the bottom of the pile.
• 4:11
  I'm like, not successful at anything.
• 4:14
  And I've had people on the show over the years who are either
• 4:19
  like experts in their craft or maybe they're up and coming or,
• 4:23
  you know, there's somewhere in the middle and, and you get a
• 4:26
  lot of varying perspectives. Obviously we're going to talk
• 4:29
  the band a bit in a bit, but like for you, you know, you
• 4:32
  you've been doing this stuff a long, long, long, long, long
• 4:35
  time. Where does it all start for you?
• 4:38
  Let's start with acting first because I think that might be
• 4:41
  kind of interesting. How did you get into?
• 4:43
  So I always, so from maybe like the start of high school, I'd
• 4:50
  always wanted to do acting. My drama teachers and stuff
• 4:53
  encouraged it, and I was always sort of persuaded away from
• 4:57
  doing. It was like, that's not a good
• 4:58
  career choice. You'll end up waiting tables
• 5:01
  this kind of that. Like I'm sure everyone who's
• 5:03
  gone into acting has had that conversation, either with a
• 5:05
  parent or a teacher. I think it's surprising for a
• 5:08
  teacher to say that though. Like, you could, you could be
• 5:11
  waiting tables, bro. Like that's brutally honest.
• 5:15
  I mean, it's kind of, I respect it on one hand, but on the other
• 5:18
  side I'm like, wow, what piece of shit like.
• 5:21
  I think it was one of it was one of my language teachers.
• 5:23
  I think that was their way of trying to persuade me to do
• 5:25
  their language at GCSE rather than drama.
• 5:28
  That's how you know that they at one point wanted to be an actor
• 5:30
  and tried and it didn't work out.
• 5:32
  That's how you know that's. Yeah.
• 5:35
  So I, I put it off for a while. I, I, I let, I let other
• 5:41
  people's doubts go into my head and I went and studied biology
• 5:44
  at university, which left field choice, I realise, yeah, like
• 5:48
  job in science that's much easier to get into.
• 5:51
  Not. Not at all.
• 5:52
  No, I would have thought it was a clear career choice.
• 5:56
  No biology or your social media job that you have with all the
• 6:02
  endless notifications. So that is my girlfriend's
• 6:06
  laptop and that is pinging her. That's what's saying that she is
• 6:09
  needed. She's on another laptop in
• 6:10
  another room on a Teams meeting. Oh, is it?
• 6:14
  Oh, bad, bad, bad. So yeah, I did Biology I.
• 6:18
  I like to fuck with people. I do apologize.
• 6:21
  This is my fucked up sense of humor these days.
• 6:23
  Life did this to me OK. It does it to us all back.
• 6:27
  Are you worried? Oh, no, no, no, you don't.
• 6:28
  You don't get it, man. I'm at a different level now.
• 6:32
  Anyway, back to you. Back to you.
• 6:33
  Enough of my. Yeah, I I studied biology and.
• 6:38
  My biology more just out of curiosity.
• 6:40
  What was that? Sorry.
• 6:41
  Why biology, out of curiosity? I was always quite good at
• 6:46
  science. I was always quite good at
• 6:47
  science and maths when I was in high school and in college.
• 6:51
  And I think, I don't know, biology sort of appealed because
• 6:54
  it was lots of different things. Learning about animals and about
• 6:56
  the history of medicine, learning about mental illness,
• 6:59
  all these things. Because I'm an incredibly
• 7:02
  indecisive person. And I think having a large thing
• 7:06
  to pick and choose that as a university subject like that
• 7:08
  sort of appealed because it meant I didn't have to focus on
• 7:12
  one thing, which ultimately, unfortunately, biology turned
• 7:16
  out not to be for me in the about halfway through
• 7:19
  university, obviously completed my degree, but I realized, yeah,
• 7:23
  I don't want to work in a lab or anything like this.
• 7:25
  I tried working in a lab for six months after university.
• 7:28
  I absolutely hated it. So what?
• 7:30
  Did you hate most about it? The routine, interesting.
• 7:37
  So with, with a lot of work in biology and and the sciences,
• 7:41
  it's a lot of a four week window of trying to do some kind of
• 7:45
  experiment, whatever it may be, trying to grow cultures.
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  It not working. You start it again over and over
• 7:51
  until it works or it doesn't work and it's statistically
• 7:53
  significant either way or it's not statistically significant
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  and you've sort of wasted your time.
• 7:59
  Yeah. I I couldn't get into the idea
• 8:01
  of the routine of being in a lab 9 till 5 or 9 till whenever
• 8:05
  because it's not. Yeah, it's it's it's you're
• 8:09
  there until you're not needed kind of thing sometimes.
• 8:12
  It's interesting that they have what, sorry, like standard
• 8:15
  office hours. Like, couldn't you just be in
• 8:17
  there at any time? Why'd you have to be there 9:00
• 8:19
  to 5:00? Yeah, it wasn't really 9 to 5
• 8:21
  now I've thought about it. What?
• 8:23
  Was your general rota, if you like.
• 8:27
  I so I was at the universities, I would sort of rock up at about
• 8:31
  10:00 because I was still trapped in the get up late and
• 8:34
  the student life. And then I'd sort of dip out
• 8:38
  maybe about 6 o'clock 7:00 or if things weren't going well, 2:00.
• 8:42
  That's a long day though. 67 o'clock you started at 10.
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  Jesus Christ. A lot of PhD students and people
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  like my girlfriend, she's doing PhD at the moment.
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  She's there sometimes 12 hour days, sometimes about lunch
• 8:55
  break. It's you sort of left your own
• 8:57
  advices. So I think you've got to own
• 8:59
  devices. So I think you've got to be
• 9:00
  motivated with science, and that my motivation just wasn't there
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  for it. What were the other reasons that
• 9:07
  your motivation wasn't there? I mean, because you, you said
• 9:11
  that you, you know, people got into your head.
• 9:12
  This is something I can relate to.
• 9:13
  I studied the marketing at uni, which is fucking pointless.
• 9:18
  I did actually work in marketing for years, but whatever.
• 9:22
  But same as you, somewhere around the second year I had a
• 9:25
  disillusioned moment, not only about management but about life
• 9:29
  in general. I was like, what is the point?
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  What is the point of any of this?
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  Fuck, fuck everything and and everything.
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  I think that's just the artists prerogative, but I think the
• 9:40
  bigger thing was for me, I don't know if this really applies to
• 9:42
  biology students and career people, but I just looked around
• 9:46
  the lecture hall and thought what a bunch of wankers.
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  They're all dressed like they're trying to impress.
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  I don't know, some CEO somewhere.
• 9:57
  And you know, all these people are just as bad now as they were
• 10:01
  then. And I'd see their endless fake
• 10:03
  soulless LinkedIn posts and I'm like, when did your soul die?
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  Was it at uni? Because I feel like there was at
• 10:12
  least a spark of something back then and now it's just dead.
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  And now every post you make is just soulless crap.
• 10:21
  You should write a song about this.
• 10:22
  I think there's something. You know, yeah, LinkedIn.
• 10:25
  I have my own personal health. For anyone who like loves
• 10:28
  LinkedIn, I despise. It OH.
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  Please. Tell me now, this is absolutely
• 10:33
  the place for this. Yes.
• 10:34
  Tell me about soulless LinkedIn shit.
• 10:38
  Oh, so are you looking around Electrical University?
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  We didn't have solace people that I know.
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  Everyone was like a lovely nerd in some kind of way, but
• 10:49
  everyone was just biology been their passion and it was their
• 10:53
  passion. For me, it just wasn't.
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  So I think that was, it wasn't like it was more of a notion of
• 10:58
  going, ah, if I want to succeed in this, I've got to be invested
• 11:03
  in it. And I just, I just wasn't.
• 11:07
  Oh my God. LinkedIn, though we were pushed
• 11:09
  to like you, like we were told if you don't have LinkedIn, you
• 11:12
  won't succeed in science. This, this and the like.
• 11:14
  Linkedin's the way. Like somehow the, the corporate
• 11:16
  marketing people snuck in to sneak that bit of information
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  in. And yeah, like, I have LinkedIn.
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  It's there. I'll check it once every six
• 11:26
  months to make sure I've not died by accident or something on
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  it. But yeah.
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  We. It's not needed for, well, I say
• 11:35
  it's not needed for the world of acting.
• 11:36
  It's sort of needed for the world of acting, but I don't use
• 11:39
  it not. Really.
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  I mean. I I see.
• 11:42
  People, there's people I know who have it and I'm like, why?
• 11:46
  Because that mine's got, it's got like professional, I do list
• 11:50
  like, you know, like acting and podcasting and shit on there.
• 11:53
  But it seems kind of daft really.
• 11:55
  It's like, oh, I've been a podcaster for six years because
• 11:58
  that's a career. Or like, you know, acting, like
• 12:01
  acting, everyone knows acting is a freelance thing and it's very
• 12:06
  just all over the place. You've got work and then you've
• 12:09
  got nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing and then randomly work
• 12:12
  and then it's just all over the place and if you're lucky you've
• 12:15
  got constant work. But as a career, I mean, I
• 12:20
  wouldn't recommend it unless you fucking love it.
• 12:23
  It's one of those like, I mean, if anyone ever wonders why I
• 12:26
  haven't given up over the years on everything I do, I love
• 12:28
  everything that I do even and it it destroys me and breaks me
• 12:32
  emotionally, physically, mentally, that nothing, none of
• 12:36
  it works out. But I would rather pursue A
• 12:40
  hopeless endeavour then and love it, then live the rest of my
• 12:46
  days in regret doing stuff I hate.
• 12:49
  I can't. I can't fathom that.
• 12:51
  It reminds me of this CM Punk quote.
• 12:53
  I think it's like something like I'd rather choke on greatness
• 12:57
  than starve on mediocrity or something like that honestly.
• 13:02
  I completely agree on that. Like.
• 13:04
  I. Yeah, I thought that's kind of
• 13:06
  why I sort of gave up on the the office life, at least for the
• 13:09
  time being, until I desperately, desperately need to pay for food
• 13:12
  and things. It's just yeah, I'd rather you
• 13:15
  can try and fail at things you hate, so you may as well try and
• 13:18
  fail at something you enjoy. So you finish your degree,
• 13:22
  you've done your PhD stuff. What age were you then?
• 13:26
  So I finished my degree at age 21, thought about doing a
• 13:30
  master's, did some well that worked in the labs for a little
• 13:34
  bit. I'm sorry you didn't do PhD.
• 13:35
  You were working in no? No, no, I'm not clever enough to
• 13:37
  do a PhD, hey. Don't, don't.
• 13:39
  Don't put yourself down, man. You never know.
• 13:41
  You never. Know oh, I'm not determined
• 13:43
  enough to do a PhD then, at least in that aspect of life.
• 13:48
  I'm going to say like I, I guess we're going to get into like
• 13:51
  there's a lot that you do with your life.
• 13:52
  And I think that it's, it's relative as far as determination
• 13:55
  is concerned. I mean, I, I can relate.
• 13:57
  Like if you put me into like a customer service job or a
• 13:59
  marketing job, I have 0 passion and I could not give a fuck.
• 14:03
  And I will probably find a way to deliberately sabotage
• 14:06
  Michelle, but with. This.
• 14:08
  I'll do this shit all day and twice on Sundays.
• 14:11
  I'll do this for free the rest of my life.
• 14:12
  I fucking love it. I don't, I want to earn living.
• 14:15
  I want this to be my career because I think everyone wants
• 14:18
  that. You know, you want something to
• 14:19
  love you back. It's otherwise it's just, it's
• 14:22
  just pain. But at the same time, you know,
• 14:25
  it's in a way, I think chasing your dreams tells you everything
• 14:30
  you need to know about yourself. What you, you know, like I know
• 14:33
  exactly what I hate and what I'm not prepared to do.
• 14:35
  And I know what I love. And that, you know, comes
• 14:38
  through trial and error. So you finish your degree,
• 14:43
  you're six months out. You've tried a bit of lab work
• 14:46
  and you're like, fuck that shit. So age 21, Rick Wiltshire,
• 14:51
  what's what's he, what's he saying?
• 14:53
  What's he doing? What's he?
• 14:54
  Where's his mind at? Age age 21 Rick Wiltshire is
• 14:58
  going well. We love to act in ages ago.
• 15:00
  Why don't we give this a try? Let's try some even classes.
• 15:03
  Let's build it up that way. Got some odd jobs at the same
• 15:06
  time, some weird odd jobs at will level.
• 15:08
  I worked in a Jewish art galley for a bit, which it's a very
• 15:12
  strange place. Interesting place, not many
• 15:14
  customers, so I had a lot of free time.
• 15:17
  Random. Yeah.
• 15:19
  Is that in Manchester? I know there's a museum in
• 15:21
  Manchester. It was in Wilmslow.
• 15:25
  So my mum, my mum was a biologist.
• 15:28
  So you can probably see where the influence of you should do
• 15:30
  biology came from. And she took early retirement to
• 15:34
  do art, which is what she'd always worked to do.
• 15:36
  So she paints, she does acrylic and abstract painting.
• 15:40
  And she came across this art gallery, which was new at the
• 15:43
  time in whenever I was 21, which we which I just forgot what
• 15:48
  year, about 2016. And yeah.
• 15:52
  How old are you I'm. I'm 3130.
• 15:54
  One. Oh, wow.
• 15:55
  I didn't. I didn't expect you to be my
• 15:57
  age. I thought you were a bit
• 15:57
  younger. Interesting.
• 15:58
  Oh, thank you. I'm going to take the
• 16:00
  compliment. I have you from my side.
• 16:01
  He does. He does.
• 16:02
  Don't look at the crow's feet here.
• 16:04
  Dude, I've got fucking white going everywhere.
• 16:06
  So I've I've beaten you on that. It's just like I, I liken it to
• 16:12
  being like going from Gandalf the Gray to Gandalf the White.
• 16:15
  You know, it's, it's, we're on that front.
• 16:17
  You know it's. A maturity thing, Yeah.
• 16:19
  You've beaten your battle rock. Yeah.
• 16:21
  No, it just happened randomly. Man it was weird last year.
• 16:24
  I've not had white hair or white eyelashes my whole life.
• 16:26
  It happened at the beginning of last year, and I actually
• 16:29
  discovered it, funnily enough, when I was reviewing the footage
• 16:33
  from the music video I did with Dan McGee and Giuseppe Giuseppe.
• 16:38
  Yeah, but I was just looking through it and I was like, oh,
• 16:42
  there's some white hairs, what the fuck?
• 16:44
  And then over the course of the next couple of months, Clockwork
• 16:48
  Orange. Very weird.
• 16:51
  Strange, but yeah. Anyway, enough about me.
• 16:57
  So yes. I've been criticized in the past
• 17:00
  about that. Even though it's my fucking
• 17:02
  show, man. It's on.
• 17:03
  It's my name is on the show. I'm allowed to talk about
• 17:05
  myself. Actually, I'll come at the
• 17:07
  critics for a second. Generally speaking, like I, I
• 17:11
  always, if I have a guest on the show, I want to talk about them
• 17:13
  because I don't want to talk about myself the whole time.
• 17:15
  I know who I am, so I don't need to fucking talk about it.
• 17:20
  But you know, it's, it's relatability.
• 17:21
  I like the show to be like a conversation, you know, back and
• 17:24
  forth. I'm obviously very aware of like
• 17:25
  stories I've told maybe a few too many times.
• 17:28
  And I'll generally apologise on the show if I've done that.
• 17:30
  I'll be like, it's just, it makes me think of this.
• 17:33
  But you never know where the conversation might go because
• 17:37
  for your guests, that's the first time they've heard that.
• 17:39
  And who knows? Do you know what I mean?
• 17:41
  It's, it's, it's a conversation. Conversations are relative and
• 17:44
  they, they naturally happen and wow, if you're both invested and
• 17:52
  your host has done their research, then you, you'll have,
• 17:55
  you'll have like an idea where the conversation's going.
• 18:00
  So you were doing odd acting jobs, you were doing even
• 18:02
  classes. Where did it go from there?
• 18:05
  Because obviously at that time you were 21, you're now 31.
• 18:09
  So that's, there's a lot of time there.
• 18:11
  What's what's kind of changed over the years?
• 18:13
  What have been the how has your acting journey been so far?
• 18:20
  I I started off, I did quite a lot of student films, friends
• 18:24
  projects here and there. I thought it was going OK.
• 18:28
  I didn't have an agent that was self represented.
• 18:30
  The spotlight was this big end goal of what to get on.
• 18:33
  I picked up doing tutoring jobs. That's what I mainly do now.
• 18:36
  Is my muggle job one of a better word?
• 18:39
  Tutoring for music or for acting.
• 18:42
  For maths and science. Oh, math.
• 18:44
  Well, hey, fair play, man, Fair play.
• 18:46
  Why not? Finally using that degree for a
• 18:48
  little bit. Good stuff, good stuff.
• 18:50
  But yeah, so that, yeah, I do that on the side, picked up a
• 18:53
  few jobs there and then obviously COVID hit.
• 18:57
  I wouldn't have said I was a professional actor at the time.
• 19:00
  So all work kind of dried up completely.
• 19:03
  And then out of nowhere, I got approached by this agent who
• 19:06
  just found my Nandi profile. And it's like, Hey, you'd be the
• 19:09
  perfect fit for what I'm missing in my team.
• 19:12
  Do you fancy coming and joining us?
• 19:16
  So we did and a couple jobs here and there, which went well and
• 19:20
  was like, OK, I, I guess maybe I, I can start saying I'm a
• 19:24
  professional actor. Like that thought process in my
• 19:27
  head of like, it's weird to tell because most of the time I'm not
• 19:30
  doing that. And I'm sure you have that as
• 19:32
  well, that that agent turned out to be not all I thought they
• 19:38
  were. And they eventually dipped out.
• 19:41
  But before they dipped out, another agent came and talked to
• 19:45
  me, my current agent Glass, who is absolutely amazing.
• 19:49
  Like, I've been on her books now for a couple of years.
• 19:53
  And yeah, never look back. Like she's the sort of agent
• 19:57
  that you that you don't necessarily know that you want
• 20:00
  what you need. She's incredibly supportive.
• 20:04
  She's got a big group chat of all of us together.
• 20:06
  It's like a community. So when one of us gets a job, it
• 20:08
  feels like it's a success for everyone in the agency.
• 20:11
  It's like a really wholesome thing.
• 20:14
  Sounds nice. I can't relate.
• 20:17
  I had I had two agents in the space of a couple of years like
• 20:21
  right now I'm I'm I'll give you I'll give you a quick rundown on
• 20:24
  me. So I think you probably, since
• 20:27
  you somewhat know my face, you know, this is the first time
• 20:31
  we've officially met. I used to have really, really,
• 20:33
  really long hair and like really long.
• 20:37
  And the, the second agent I had, they found me on Spotlight.
• 20:44
  It lasted about 3-4 months and then they binned me.
• 20:47
  Not really any information at all.
• 20:50
  The first one I had for like over a year and I think I
• 20:54
  reached out to them because someone I knew was signed with
• 20:58
  them and basically the whole time they just said like,
• 21:02
  everything's my fault. So at first it was your photos
• 21:06
  aren't light like bright enough. So I got new photos done.
• 21:11
  I get them done every year anyway.
• 21:13
  And yeah, they they would like they're not bright enough and
• 21:17
  they're like full on headshots face.
• 21:20
  I don't know what how much brighter you can get unless
• 21:22
  there's a fucking, I don't know, spotlight on my actual face.
• 21:28
  They also, you know, they would put me forward for fucking, I
• 21:31
  don't know, like commercial stuff that I wasn't a fit for.
• 21:36
  And then when I would say, Hey, can you give me any advice?
• 21:39
  Like what, How come I'm not able to find work?
• 21:41
  They were like, oh, you're too, you're too niche.
• 21:44
  And I'm like, well, listen, I'm no fucking casting director, but
• 21:47
  I don't know, I can think of a few ideas.
• 21:49
  Vampire Viking, I don't know, evil medieval villain.
• 21:54
  Like fucking come on, man, Like play to your strengths.
• 21:58
  Look at what some someone at least looks like.
• 22:00
  I mean, it's supposed to be a industry based on looks, right?
• 22:03
  So just go, go on that, you know, and now it's it's kind of
• 22:07
  hilarious. Like, you know, I have a fucking
• 22:11
  white hair, white eyelash, vitiligo, short hair, you know,
• 22:16
  I mean, these things can, you can manipulate that, But like I
• 22:19
  stand out. I don't know how much more I
• 22:20
  could really fucking stand out and nothing.
• 22:24
  Can't get an agent. I think I've been rejected like
• 22:28
  40-50 times this year. Sorry, man.
• 22:32
  Don't worry about it, man. It's it's the nature of the
• 22:35
  industry. I would say at the moment
• 22:38
  there's most agents I don't think are taking on new clients
• 22:41
  or very few are, I think a lot of.
• 22:44
  Close book. It's it's all all of these
• 22:46
  things in creative endeavours are about luck.
• 22:50
  It's hard work and luck and I've I've never had any luck.
• 22:54
  So I'm just kind of like watching everyone else do their
• 22:57
  thing. That's what makes this show
• 22:58
  quite interesting because I'll be able to relate to people, but
• 23:02
  it'll be like kind of I don't know.
• 23:04
  It's it's it's sad if we talk about me.
• 23:06
  So I try not to talk too much about me, but yeah, I mean, it's
• 23:12
  interesting how how much things have changed over the years when
• 23:17
  it comes to how people get jobs. I think the one thing that has
• 23:22
  never changed is is like, who, you know, most of the acting
• 23:25
  jobs I tend to get these days are either voice acting jobs
• 23:30
  that I apply for or people that reached out to me that know me
• 23:36
  for another project someone recommends, you know, and that's
• 23:39
  kind of that's a positive. Like you get.
• 23:42
  Yeah. I mean, I met Dan McGee on like
• 23:45
  some shitty dodgy commercial that we ended up doing.
• 23:49
  And we were just fucking around having a laugh.
• 23:51
  And then, you know, I said, like, yeah, hit me up if you
• 23:54
  ever do anything. And he has over the years and,
• 23:58
  you know, you end up doing stuff together and stuff.
• 24:03
  Speaking of Dan, I was you too. You did a film, Dan, about a
• 24:07
  pigeon, didn't you? Yeah.
• 24:10
  Yeah, I was. You're standing on the recce
• 24:12
  days for it. Yeah, I was wondering why they
• 24:14
  didn't just use you, because I didn't realize that at first.
• 24:17
  I thought, oh, this is, you know, standing just.
• 24:20
  I just got someone to stand in front of the camera, right?
• 24:23
  And I was like, why don't you just go with this guy?
• 24:25
  I mean, I'm grateful I got it because it was a great film.
• 24:28
  The film's called Ono Guano, released in 2023.
• 24:32
  Fucking bizarre, hilarious, Edgar White kind of shit.
• 24:38
  But yeah, I was like, why didn't they just give it to Rick?
• 24:40
  Were you just busy that week or I don't know.
• 24:43
  I think, I think Dan had already cast you, but I definitely
• 24:46
  couldn't do the day or something like that.
• 24:48
  So I was like, well, I'm free, I'll go and see Dan for a bit
• 24:50
  and lovely just happy as well. I.
• 24:53
  Think what's interesting about that, right?
• 24:54
  Because we're going to talk about your height now.
• 24:56
  You are a very tall man. You're 6 foot five.
• 25:01
  I'm 6 foot on the dart, right? For those who don't know what
• 25:04
  that means, it's about 195.6 centimeters.
• 25:07
  So putting you as a stand in for me is kind of hilarious because
• 25:11
  like, it's going to be a significant difference.
• 25:14
  Yeah, there's a few inches. So what's the weather like up
• 25:21
  there? It's lovely.
• 25:22
  And Speaking of niche castings, when you when you when you're
• 25:26
  this high, yeah, when you see those spotlight jobs and they're
• 25:29
  like, oh, anyone up to 19192 cent, this is absolutely fine.
• 25:32
  You're like, oh, they want anyone who's like a normalish
• 25:34
  height. But I am slightly freaky, so I'm
• 25:37
  not. Allowed in can you just, I don't
• 25:40
  know, limp a bit or hunch he's. Just stoop.
• 25:43
  I mean, I stoop most of the time anyway, so just.
• 25:46
  Yeah. But, you know, like, yeah, I'm 6
• 25:48
  foot one, Yeah. Just a little eagle thing, it's
• 25:51
  fine. I mean, I mean, Tobey Maguire
• 25:54
  does it in Spider Man, isn't it? It's impressive.
• 25:57
  That is true. He's not that tall though, is
• 25:59
  he? Nah.
• 26:00
  But you know, there's the IT, there's that scene where Mary
• 26:03
  Jane's like, Oh yeah, you're taller than you look.
• 26:06
  And he's like, yeah, I hunch. And she's like, don't.
• 26:08
  And he's like, fair enough. I've I've had the height
• 26:16
  difference, I've only ever been too tall for one set and it was
• 26:20
  very, very early on. It was like a friend's student
• 26:23
  film one like just after university.
• 26:25
  So they. Cast you, you walk on to set.
• 26:28
  So this is classic fucking student film shit.
• 26:30
  This is why I don't do student films unless it's voice.
• 26:33
  So you walk on, they've not done their research and they put what
• 26:37
  looking up at you like, oh fucking hell, he's bit.
• 26:41
  Are we going to get the camera on it?
• 26:43
  So it wasn't so they'd already filmed with this this actress
• 26:46
  for a couple of days. She was the main character.
• 26:48
  I was literally 2 lines in a lift next to her and they
• 26:51
  haven't clocked the she was like 5-2 me 6 foot five.
• 26:55
  They couldn't frame it so that I was in the frame.
• 26:59
  And because the mirror that they left had like those mirrors on
• 27:01
  the side, it was very limited in what scope they could do with
• 27:04
  it. So they were like, sorry Rick,
• 27:06
  we're just going to get one of the like camera OPS to stand in
• 27:08
  and just say the lines instead. So yeah, turn up.
• 27:12
  It's tall to go. That's.
• 27:14
  Classic fucking student films man.
• 27:17
  That's exactly why I don't do it because it's I understand, like
• 27:19
  people, you know, they're learning, they're learning their
• 27:24
  craft, but I, I can't tell you how much unprofessionalism I've
• 27:28
  seen on student sets where I'm like, you know what, like you're
• 27:32
  never going to get anywhere filmmaking.
• 27:34
  Just just give up now because this is just pain it.
• 27:37
  Can go both ways. You can see like the worst of
• 27:40
  the worst in terms of what happens on a film and then
• 27:43
  you'll be pleasantly surprised by like some of the most
• 27:46
  creative people or like the best looking shops you've ever seen.
• 27:49
  They're they're hit and miss. I would say student films like I
• 27:52
  I always expect the worst. When it comes to student films,
• 27:55
  I because I've noticed as well, there's a weird sense of
• 27:57
  entitlement, the hoops that you jump through to fucking just do
• 28:03
  something like but like this. I've been doing voice acting a
• 28:06
  long time, right? And when I send out like voice
• 28:10
  tapes like. It's it's kind of.
• 28:13
  The voice is the voice. I can, I can do different
• 28:16
  accents. I can, I can do variations on a
• 28:18
  theme and stuff. But sometimes I'll look at like
• 28:20
  how much they're asking and I'm like, listen, no, like do you
• 28:24
  even want the voice or you don't want the voice?
• 28:26
  It's as simple as that. Because the industry has changed
• 28:31
  completely. I'm not saying I'm not willing
• 28:33
  to do like for instance, if it's a film, I do it in person
• 28:36
  auditions of course, but from. The self tape.
• 28:41
  I think that. At least kind of gets you.
• 28:45
  Either you've. Whittled it down to like your
• 28:47
  last five people and you want to just kind of try a few different
• 28:50
  things out this I. Think this really.
• 28:54
  More so replaced on screen. I think we're voice acting.
• 28:57
  It's kind of it is what it is. Do you know what I mean?
• 29:00
  On screen makes sense because it's like you bring someone down
• 29:03
  physically and then you can kind of test out what they look out
• 29:05
  on certain cameras and if they can take direction well and and
• 29:09
  stuff like that. So I think there's, that's fair.
• 29:13
  But yeah, I don't know. Over the years I've seen a lot
• 29:14
  of bad attitudes with student films.
• 29:16
  And the only people I'm really ever willing to work with, if
• 29:20
  it's a student film, would be like PhD students and stuff.
• 29:23
  People who actually are taking it seriously, yeah.
• 29:27
  For instance. Like the last one I did.
• 29:29
  Which it was an independent film, but shout out to Fallon W
• 29:35
  it was because she was kind of in.
• 29:39
  That that time doing her. PhD but she's very serious about
• 29:43
  film making. She'd been doing it for years.
• 29:45
  So I was like, all right, I feel comfortable with this.
• 29:47
  Let's let's do it right and. She wasn't, actually.
• 29:53
  The one who reached out to me. Was someone else, but like, it's
• 29:56
  I could see straight away like, oh, this is serious.
• 29:59
  She's taking this seriously like this means a lot.
• 30:01
  Like, you know, and I felt comfortable then like, you know,
• 30:04
  obviously it's it's different every single time you get on
• 30:06
  set. But you know, it became very
• 30:09
  apparent like, oh, this isn't a student film.
• 30:11
  They are students around because obviously why wouldn't you use
• 30:15
  that as a resource, right? But this is very much like about
• 30:21
  serious filmmaking. And what do I mean when I say
• 30:25
  that? Well, just basics like making
• 30:28
  sure, and I know how this will sound.
• 30:31
  But if you're doing like an all day shoot, students listen up.
• 30:35
  If you're doing an all day shoot and you're not even paying your
• 30:40
  actors and and not just your actors, your cast, your crew,
• 30:42
  everyone, right? At the very least, you should
• 30:46
  provide like tea, coffee, water, a few snacks, bare minimum.
• 30:52
  If you don't provide that, it's incredibly unprofessional.
• 30:57
  You need to kind of be cognizant of, of break times and and like
• 31:03
  how much you're asking of actors.
• 31:05
  You know, we're not robots. Like we can do intense stuff
• 31:09
  over the course of a couple of hours, you know, and we'll give
• 31:12
  you our best. But you know what?
• 31:14
  I. Mean it's it's it's a lot.
• 31:16
  It's emotionally demanding and just, you know, doing just like
• 31:20
  anything else in life, it's it's one of those things that.
• 31:25
  You you need. Breaks you need to like reassess
• 31:28
  and stuff like that. What been the biggest challenges
• 31:30
  for you with acting over the years?
• 31:35
  Aside from I've been in my own head about a lot, but which I
• 31:37
  think I guess a lot of actors are.
• 31:39
  If you're not in work, it's. Am I doing something wrong?
• 31:45
  Sorry, I feel like I touched the nerve.
• 31:46
  With that one, But yeah, I'll say this.
• 31:49
  I I never. Have a bad attitude about it One
• 31:52
  thing I've I've I've always made sure to do is never get bitter.
• 31:56
  I feel, I won't lie, I feel hard done by, I feel heartbroken, but
• 32:01
  I think it's pointless to compare yourself to other people
• 32:04
  because. It's just.
• 32:07
  Different, you know what I mean? For whatever reason, I don't fit
• 32:11
  the mold. I'm not good enough for or
• 32:13
  whatever. I don't know what it is, but
• 32:14
  it's not that you're not good enough it.
• 32:18
  Is. Trust me, everything.
• 32:20
  I do fails. I've been doing this.
• 32:22
  Show. Six years.
• 32:24
  Six years, bro. There's.
• 32:28
  Podcasts that have been. Around 5 minutes that have got
• 32:30
  success and it's OK. I, I, I just do my best with,
• 32:35
  with what I do. I don't feel the need to prove
• 32:38
  anything to anyone but I that's how I feel about myself and it
• 32:43
  is what it is. But I brought you on the show to
• 32:45
  talk about you. I don't want to talk about me
• 32:47
  anymore. You're talking about challenges,
• 32:49
  being in your own head. So what?
• 32:52
  What are the? What are the?
• 32:53
  Things that you doubt about your abilities.
• 32:56
  What what's what's going on? There it is.
• 32:59
  As we've said, like. If if I get in my own head about
• 33:02
  things, it's like, well, I guess I'm not formally trained.
• 33:07
  In a way. I've not been to RADA, Orlando
• 33:08
  or one of these places. I've had the evening classes and
• 33:10
  stuff like that, but is that not the?
• 33:13
  Same. I mean, it's, it's still
• 33:15
  lessons, isn't it? You know?
• 33:16
  Yeah, I. Suppose it's it's that notion of
• 33:22
  I guess it's almost like an imposter syndrome thing for me
• 33:24
  sometimes I can actually, I often shake it off.
• 33:27
  But yeah, I. Think that applies to.
• 33:30
  Just general general life really.
• 33:32
  Or sometimes the imposter syndrome kicks in of life.
• 33:35
  Am I the right? Person for doing this job.
• 33:37
  Why are we? Yeah, why?
• 33:38
  Why am I doing this? But yeah.
• 33:41
  But given you've done it, you can relate.
• 33:43
  You've done it for so long. Like, do you not trust in your
• 33:46
  ability? Like, well, you know, it's been
• 33:47
  however many years, you know, I'm I'm a seasoned actor.
• 33:51
  All right, It's definitely got. Quieter in recent years, I think
• 33:56
  I've managed to prove to myself, yeah, I deserve to be here as
• 34:00
  much as the next person. I've worked hard for this.
• 34:03
  I've not just looked into it. And yeah, you're absolutely
• 34:05
  right, there's luck involved. It's it's that combination of
• 34:08
  being prepared and lucky at the same time.
• 34:12
  What have been? Your biggest triumphs?
• 34:13
  Over the years with acting, oh. I really should have thought
• 34:20
  this question was. Coming.
• 34:21
  Yeah. Somehow my brain never.
• 34:22
  Thought this one through. I've done a couple of
• 34:25
  commercials which have. It's that it's that nice thing.
• 34:29
  Of you friends know that you do acting, but they don't tend to
• 34:32
  see most of it because it's in short films.
• 34:34
  It's in feature films that disappear.
• 34:37
  Into the film. Festivals and my bandmate Joe
• 34:41
  just called me to say you'd see me on Comedy Central advertising
• 34:44
  noodles. I was like yes, OK, I've
• 34:46
  officially proven to you that I can do acting now.
• 34:49
  That was a nice moment. I did a feature film that's
• 34:54
  coming out soon. It's an independent feature
• 34:57
  called Drake about spice addiction in Manchester.
• 35:01
  A group of friends, they run Simframe, which is a production
• 35:05
  company in Manchester. This is their first feature and
• 35:08
  being part of that was was very special.
• 35:12
  And I guess me and a couple of friends from high school sell
• 35:17
  Blue dot Films, which is a nonprofit little film making
• 35:21
  group. We've done 2 shorts today to to
• 35:25
  date and we've Because that's impressive that you recorded.
• 35:28
  All that today. Well done.
• 35:30
  I know. Yeah.
• 35:31
  It's like, yeah. It's not even 1:00, two shorts,
• 35:35
  and we are doing our first foray into a sort of more long format
• 35:41
  and a comedy, which my friend Adam, who's one of the sort of
• 35:45
  three of us who start in blue dots, is phenomenal scriptwriter
• 35:48
  and a very, very good friend. And I'm not Tooting his own horn
• 35:51
  hair, but it might be my favorite script I've ever read.
• 35:55
  So I'm very excited for that. And I will be bothering you with
• 35:58
  castings as well once we get to that stage.
• 36:01
  Wow. I didn't see that.
• 36:02
  If I'm in charge of the casting. Process, which I hope I am, but
• 36:05
  I might. Are you going to be directing
• 36:06
  then or what's going? To be your involvement, I
• 36:10
  believe. I'll just be acting in it
• 36:11
  because Adam tends to direct the blue dot stuff I tend.
• 36:15
  To end up in a sort of producer. Role.
• 36:17
  And then if there's a role for me, I'll go.
• 36:20
  I think Rich would probably do that, but there.
• 36:23
  I know what you mean with the whole.
• 36:25
  Seeing people on adverts thing there's a guy I know who live a
• 36:29
  putty, an actor called Philip McGinnis, and I think his
• 36:34
  biggest role of the day is he's in this show called Go Ed, which
• 36:37
  is on like ITV, something like that.
• 36:40
  I met him. This is how funny life is.
• 36:42
  I met him doing a fucking parking for.
• 36:47
  A warden. Job in like back arse of nowhere
• 36:51
  in Liverpool and we're literally standing across the street at
• 36:55
  each other and there's no one around.
• 36:57
  Like occasionally there might be a car and we'll just tell them
• 36:59
  to fuck off down the road or something.
• 37:02
  And, and we're just talking about life, his want of being
• 37:06
  Doctor Who at some point, he told me.
• 37:10
  Some fucking paranormal. I'd love to get him on the show.
• 37:12
  I've been trying to get him for fucking ages.
• 37:13
  He just, he just keeps ignoring me.
• 37:18
  But then he'll message. You'll be like, oh.
• 37:19
  Hey, it's like. Anyway.
• 37:22
  He does a lot all that adverts as well and I saw him.
• 37:26
  I seemed like a premier room with my girlfriend.
• 37:28
  I was just sitting down the. Fucking ad this is how weird.
• 37:32
  It is when, you know people that act, right.
• 37:34
  So he comes on the TV and he's got like a bowl cut or some
• 37:38
  shit. And he said advert, yeah, for
• 37:41
  like a food thing. And I'm like, so I feel it.
• 37:44
  What the fuck? Like, you know, it just happens
• 37:48
  man. It's just, it's the weirdness of
• 37:50
  it all. I annoy my girlfriend.
• 37:52
  To death because obviously go through spotlight every morning,
• 37:55
  that's about my routine, see what jobs are coming through,
• 37:57
  obviously the little bit that we can see and then what my agent
• 38:00
  will say she's put me forward for and obviously.
• 38:03
  Never had an interest. In adverts, the moment the
• 38:05
  adverts pop on, I'll go. I remember that casting.
• 38:07
  I remember that casting. I can't believe they've gone
• 38:09
  with that person. Yeah, I know.
• 38:11
  You mean? Yeah, yeah.
• 38:13
  You see things that you didn't get.
• 38:15
  Or you see like what they went with and you're just like
• 38:19
  brother so. There was an ad for.
• 38:23
  I did a self tape in January I think for it.
• 38:26
  Didn't get it obviously for like some oven cleaner things.
• 38:30
  I thought nothing of it. My agent was happy to self tape,
• 38:34
  just probably not the right person for the job.
• 38:36
  And I was driving up to Leeds for a short film in February and
• 38:39
  I'm stuck in traffic and there was this massive fuck off
• 38:42
  billboard over me. And I looked up and it was the
• 38:44
  advert and it's like, for fuck's sake, the one, the one that
• 38:47
  killed me the most. Was there was a voice acting gig
• 38:50
  for like a pirate thing? And I can do, I can do shit like
• 38:54
  that all day. I love voice acting.
• 38:56
  I applied for it, didn't get it. And then yeah, about three
• 39:00
  months later, there's a guy I follow and it's on his story and
• 39:03
  he's like, oh, are me hearty? Just finished off this thing and
• 39:06
  I'm like fuck you like I'm happy for you but fuck you fuck the
• 39:11
  universe I it's always nice when someone we know gets.
• 39:14
  It but also well this is the thing like.
• 39:16
  I don't. Listen, I don't get jealous, I
• 39:19
  envy people like shit, but I do sometimes if they get too much I
• 39:22
  do mute their stories and posts. I can't.
• 39:25
  I can't stomach it anymore. I'm like they get everything, I
• 39:29
  get nothing. What is this?
• 39:32
  Yeah, so social. Media, I think, is unfortunately
• 39:35
  engineered to make us feel jealous of other people, and in
• 39:38
  our industry, jealousy is not an ideal thing to feel.
• 39:41
  I mean like I. Said you got to.
• 39:44
  You can't have. Jealousy.
• 39:45
  You can. Be envious.
• 39:47
  You can't have jealousy because jealousy is is stupid and
• 39:50
  illogical. Like what?
• 39:52
  We're different people, we have different stories, stuff like
• 39:56
  that. Like it's, it's just a stupid
• 39:59
  emotion. I've always thought jealousy is
• 40:01
  stupid because. I mean, what even is it?
• 40:05
  You know what? I mean like you, you want you
• 40:07
  want what another person has. But you don't know.
• 40:11
  The steps that led that person to get that thing and.
• 40:17
  Ultimately, it might not. Bring you happiness in that
• 40:19
  scenario yeah, I I don't know like it's.
• 40:24
  Sometimes, I mean, people have. Said this to me before, like,
• 40:26
  Christian, one day your time will come and I'm like, yeah,
• 40:29
  yeah, OK, when pigs fly, but you know, they'll say it.
• 40:32
  And every now and again I do think about that.
• 40:35
  And I think like what if? My time if you like.
• 40:39
  Comes in in the form of something I never would have
• 40:42
  considered you. Know what I mean?
• 40:44
  Like what if what if? It's it's not the things I've
• 40:47
  been pursuing, but what if it's this thing and it's like, Oh my
• 40:50
  God, you know, like, and for me, I don't know, I feel like
• 40:53
  there's something in interviewing and talking to
• 40:55
  people because I'm not that fussed or asked about being the
• 40:59
  centre of attention, believe it or not.
• 41:03
  I think it's, you know, when I'm on set, it's I like making
• 41:08
  everyone laugh and having a good time and, and like the
• 41:11
  experience and like we come out with final product and I'm like,
• 41:13
  yeah, this is brilliant. Like, for example, I did a film
• 41:17
  ages ago called Choc Chips. And like my character has like a
• 41:20
  few lines. Not really that important, but I
• 41:23
  realized in that how important my role was in making someone
• 41:27
  else look good, specifically Dan's character and I really.
• 41:32
  I really felt. Like at least in.
• 41:34
  My opinion that. It helped that it helped make a
• 41:39
  another character look quite intimidating.
• 41:43
  So my character served different purposes despite being a small
• 41:49
  bit part character. And, you know, I think I said
• 41:52
  that to someone on set and they were like, there are no small
• 41:56
  roles. And I thought, yeah.
• 41:57
  And I took it seriously like I would anything else.
• 41:59
  But it it I think it kind. Of teaches you.
• 42:05
  Like the people that walk around with.
• 42:06
  Egos and shit is it's kind of funny, but everyone else is like
• 42:11
  just invested in what we do and and like the beat, the love of
• 42:14
  it, the love of the game and stuff like that.
• 42:17
  I think that's the thing though, isn't it, at the?
• 42:18
  End of the day, it's collaborative.
• 42:21
  Like you, if you do a good performance and give someone the
• 42:26
  right cues and the right level of emotion and you'll get a
• 42:29
  better performance out of them and everyone wins.
• 42:31
  If you sort of let your ego drive it you, you might pull off
• 42:35
  a great performance, but it'll feel weird and stilted alongside
• 42:38
  everyone else's. So it's.
• 42:41
  Yeah. Ego.
• 42:43
  Has no real place in the industry, to be honest.
• 42:47
  A lot of people do have the ego, but it doesn't, Yeah.
• 42:49
  Have you come across anything benefit?
• 42:51
  Anything. I've I've been very lucky in
• 42:53
  that most projects have been involved with.
• 42:59
  Either no one's had much of. An ego or it's an ego that's
• 43:02
  that's manageable, A manageable ego.
• 43:05
  Explain SO. You know, when you come across
• 43:09
  someone you, you can see that they've got like, they've got a
• 43:12
  bit of an ego, but it's not like it's not a grandiose thing.
• 43:15
  It's not like you placate it to some extent, but you don't let
• 43:21
  it become the centre of attention.
• 43:22
  I've got someone on in mind. Right now is it?
• 43:26
  Someone we both know. Probably.
• 43:30
  It's it's one of those where I met.
• 43:32
  Them and I offered them. Something and.
• 43:36
  They were like, Oh no, I don't do stuff like that.
• 43:38
  And I was like, oh, and the person I went with in the end
• 43:43
  was. Definitely the right choice.
• 43:45
  But I just remember thinking like, I don't know.
• 43:48
  Like whenever I meet them, I see them.
• 43:50
  There's this. I get this impression.
• 43:54
  That they judge people and talk to people based on whether or
• 43:58
  not like they're. A successful.
• 44:02
  Actor. That's the vibe I got.
• 44:03
  Now, I'm not saying that that's the way they think, because
• 44:06
  they've always been nice to me, but.
• 44:11
  I don't know, like I look at how.
• 44:12
  People treat me. I treat everyone with respect.
• 44:14
  I remember I saw them in person after many many.
• 44:18
  Months. And.
• 44:22
  It was funny because like. Everyone.
• 44:23
  Else is too quick to be like hey how's it going nice to meet you
• 44:26
  or hey how's it going been a while felt like they.
• 44:30
  Were avoiding me. And then we finally were in each
• 44:32
  other's faces and it felt like, OK, we're going to talk.
• 44:35
  And they were lovely. But I was like, do you not think
• 44:41
  I'm good enough or something to be here now?
• 44:43
  Again, it's probably just all in my head, but I'm just saying
• 44:46
  like sometimes. You do get vibes from people.
• 44:51
  Do you know what I mean? Like most people I work with
• 44:53
  that I've ever done acting with, there's like none of that, you
• 44:57
  know? Yeah.
• 44:59
  Like I met this guy recently called.
• 45:00
  Brandon Powers, Really funny guy, so easy to work with and it
• 45:05
  turns out he he, he's like, he doesn't give off any egotistical
• 45:10
  vibes and he's killing it. He's doing really, really well.
• 45:13
  Same same with this other girl I I mentioned who's doing
• 45:15
  Hollyoaks. Maybe it's just because they're
• 45:18
  young and they're and they're just or they're just they see
• 45:21
  things for what they are. They don't see.
• 45:23
  But but the ego thing I think is always stupid because it's like
• 45:27
  we're all in the same industry. We're all trying to do the same
• 45:29
  thing. It's just.
• 45:32
  Embarrassing when people. Act that way, you know?
• 45:36
  Yeah, I don't. Know.
• 45:39
  It's it's just. I get that it can be like a
• 45:41
  defence mechanism. Some people as well protecting
• 45:43
  themselves. Like with our industry, we get a
• 45:45
  lot of rejection but but also it doesn't serve any purpose.
• 45:50
  It just makes you harder to work with.
• 45:52
  So if anything, that's hurting themselves.
• 45:56
  I just. The thing is, especially with
• 45:59
  like as you mentioned earlier in the show, like you know,
• 46:02
  everyone knows everyone, like eventually going to see this
• 46:04
  person probably end up working with them again.
• 46:06
  It's just awkward. Like just pull it back man, stop
• 46:10
  acting like a well. Who is this for?
• 46:14
  I do you know. What I mean like, and I've seen
• 46:17
  a lot of people over the years where they've, I remember I met
• 46:19
  one person and we were extras on a fucking Bollywood film, right.
• 46:24
  So we're nobody's Yeah, yeah, cool.
• 46:26
  I've done 5 Bollywood films. 4. Extras and one feature.
• 46:31
  So there you go. Fucking claim to.
• 46:34
  Fame. It was a very tough experience.
• 46:39
  It's not going to lie. Yeah, crazy shit.
• 46:42
  I could tell some stories. Anyway, there was a girl that I
• 46:45
  met on one of those sets who I looked her up.
• 46:48
  Apparently she's like, does some sort of shitty ZT television
• 46:53
  show, something similar to QVC, Right.
• 46:57
  Oh, OK. Yeah.
• 46:58
  And, and she really had like an ego problem.
• 47:01
  And I was like, what is wrong with you?
• 47:04
  Like no one watches your show. Like no one, no one at all, no
• 47:09
  one fucking watched QVC back in the day.
• 47:11
  And I can't even believe shows like that exist to this day in
• 47:15
  the year of our Lord 2026. Just you know what I mean.
• 47:19
  Like. It's no one watches TV anymore.
• 47:21
  Anyway, like everyone streams but when you see.
• 47:23
  Stuff like that, you're like. Come on, man, pull it together.
• 47:27
  What's wrong with you? Yeah.
• 47:29
  Who? Is buying a vacuum cleaner.
• 47:30
  At 2:00 in the morning and subway for that person to be
• 47:34
  presented for six hours straight.
• 47:36
  It's also TikTok shop now. Isn't it?
• 47:38
  You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 47:39
  Oh. Don't get me started on TikTok.
• 47:42
  Oh, tell me about TikTok. Oh so.
• 47:44
  I only. I only use tik.
• 47:47
  T.O.K for the band and yeah no, not a fan of it.
• 47:52
  Why? Are you not a fan of it?
• 47:54
  I. Just, I don't know, maybe I'm a
• 47:57
  snob, but I quite like my entertainment form to be longer
• 47:59
  than 10 seconds. I saw a video earlier.
• 48:03
  It was a Skyrim video. It was like a minute and 20
• 48:06
  seconds. And the the poster apologized
• 48:09
  for the video being too long, saying, Oh yeah, normally
• 48:12
  they're like only less than 30 seconds.
• 48:14
  I'm like too long. What do you mean too long?
• 48:18
  Don't apologize. These people need to work on
• 48:20
  themselves, but they need to get the attention.
• 48:22
  Span to be a little bit longer than the 10 to 32nd mark because
• 48:27
  God forbid all our songs in the band are over 5 minutes.
• 48:30
  They will get bored of them so quickly.
• 48:32
  Shout out to my. My friend, my probably sister in
• 48:38
  another life, Vilma, that I butt heads with all the time we were
• 48:42
  talking about because she she. She's the dub friend.
• 48:45
  You want someone who won't be a yes man and will annoy the fuck
• 48:48
  out of you but get you thinking and her heart's in the right
• 48:50
  place. We love you, Vilma.
• 48:52
  So we were, we were talking about video lengths the other
• 48:54
  day in a live stream and I said, well, I'm not going to change my
• 48:59
  podcasts. To adapt to other.
• 49:02
  People's needs. And she was like, well, you
• 49:06
  know. Maybe.
• 49:07
  Maybe you'd get more streams, listens, or or whatever for the
• 49:12
  podcast. I'm like that maybe, but it's a
• 49:14
  fucking podcast. If you can't sit for an hour or
• 49:18
  do what most people do, have it in the background while you're
• 49:20
  doing something because I don't expect.
• 49:23
  Does anyone? Really sit and like, watch or
• 49:25
  listen to a podcast. Like with nothing else?
• 49:27
  No, like you're, you're on the way to work.
• 49:30
  You're, I don't know, you're drawing or something.
• 49:35
  I know a lot of people that like have listened to my show.
• 49:37
  They've, they've had it on the background while they do
• 49:38
  something. That's exactly what I do.
• 49:40
  That's normal, right? But like.
• 49:45
  A. Podcast is generally.
• 49:48
  Averages from like 45 minutes up to two hours, right?
• 49:51
  My shows tends to average between 45 minutes to about an
• 49:54
  hour and a half, depending on the show, the person, the
• 49:57
  conversation. You know, I generally look at it
• 50:02
  like there'll be like a natural conclusion point.
• 50:05
  Like I'll feel like, yeah, this has been enough.
• 50:07
  Or it just feels like it could end here.
• 50:09
  Or, you know, I don't know, like you just kind of get a feeling
• 50:12
  for these things. Yeah, it's like a natural.
• 50:16
  Flow to. It isn't it?
• 50:17
  Yeah, I think so. I.
• 50:18
  Don't know, you just know. You just know when it's time.
• 50:21
  You know it's it's like when it's like when you go out with
• 50:23
  friends and there's the OK, it's it's time to go home.
• 50:28
  Like it's that normal, that first person that.
• 50:30
  You're like, ah, there's going to be a cascade of people.
• 50:32
  Well, you know, it's interesting though.
• 50:33
  Because that person, the first person, you're like, oh.
• 50:37
  Are they missing? Out and then a few more people
• 50:39
  and you're like, you start wondering and then like before
• 50:44
  you know it, 70% of the people have gone and now it's like
• 50:48
  right in Manchester it'll be like this.
• 50:50
  Whenever I'm with my friend Josh, it's always the fucking
• 50:52
  same thing. It'll be like.
• 50:56
  One in the morning. And we've just closed down
• 50:58
  somewhere and he's like another beer somewhere.
• 51:03
  And I just know it's going to end up 4:00 AM in the gay
• 51:06
  village. It's always the same shit every
• 51:08
  fucking time. And I regret it every single
• 51:11
  time. I love, I love hanging out with
• 51:13
  him, but I hate that it's I'm old now and it's it should have
• 51:19
  gone home at one. It's it's.
• 51:21
  Like an art. Form and that you've got to you
• 51:23
  can't be the first one to step out because losing all the night
• 51:27
  yeah precisely if all the second one you've got to be you've got
• 51:32
  to get it around the 50 percent 70% mark as you said but not be
• 51:36
  the one that kills the night at the same time you can't be
• 51:39
  missing out either there's a strange art form to it and that
• 51:43
  you're you're dipping out with everybody else but you've not
• 51:46
  killed the night I love I love when.
• 51:49
  When you are the one that kills the night because it's like
• 51:53
  people will be like, oh, come on.
• 51:54
  And you're like, there's three of us.
• 51:56
  It's 45 AM. What do you mean?
• 52:00
  I'm happy to kill the night. It should have died earlier.
• 52:03
  What do you mean sometimes it's a mercy killing?
• 52:06
  Yeah, if it's if you stood outside Jinam's at 4:00 in the
• 52:10
  morning, it's about time the night should end.
• 52:14
  So you lead a bit of a double. Life you're doing acting and
• 52:17
  music. This is something I can relate
• 52:19
  to to people have asked me over the years like why not focus on
• 52:22
  one thing? And my response is always they
• 52:26
  are completely different disciplines.
• 52:28
  They feel different, they look different, they have
• 52:30
  similarities, but they are very, very different.
• 52:33
  Now before we sort of deep dive into your music, I just want to
• 52:37
  know your, I suppose, motivations and feelings about
• 52:41
  doing these two very different careers.
• 52:47
  OK, so. With my acting, I think it came
• 52:50
  from I was always quite shy as like a kid and a teenager all
• 52:55
  the way up through university. And I think pushing myself
• 52:58
  through acting was a little bit of a get myself out of myself,
• 53:01
  out of my comfort zone thing. And I knew I liked it, but then
• 53:05
  I ended up loving it. I like being on set, I like
• 53:08
  being with people. I like the whole, we're creating
• 53:12
  something together. There's a product at the end
• 53:13
  that we're all happy with. And every job is different.
• 53:17
  And I think I need something like that.
• 53:19
  I can't have the same job day in, day out for too long.
• 53:22
  Couple of months for a project. Absolutely fine.
• 53:25
  It's, yeah, it's, it's it's like, it's like a nice, neat
• 53:31
  little package. Almost every job is this thing.
• 53:34
  You meet people, you do the job, it's done.
• 53:37
  You might see me get off another job and that's a lovely sign.
• 53:39
  I like meeting people generally. So I think that factors into
• 53:42
  both the acting and the music and I think the approach is
• 53:45
  different. It's weird to say that acting
• 53:48
  should be this almost slightly unpolished thing because you
• 53:51
  don't want to go onto set and be stilted in your delivery, like
• 53:54
  you've over rehearsed kind of thing.
• 53:56
  Whereas music I guess is almost the exact opposite.
• 53:59
  You want it to be so deeply ingrained that if the.
• 54:03
  Click Track cuts out, you still know.
• 54:05
  Where exactly? Where you are, What's going on?
• 54:07
  I don't know. Gums on the stage.
• 54:08
  I do that quite a lot. It's more.
• 54:11
  Like a brotherhood. Situation because you're you're
• 54:14
  in a metal band the basis for for 40,000 leagues and I don't.
• 54:20
  Know like it it it. Requires different things from
• 54:23
  you, doesn't it? It's it's different energy.
• 54:26
  And talk to me about that. Like what?
• 54:29
  It's like kind of being in a. Project like that I.
• 54:32
  Love so. Metal is something I've always
• 54:34
  loved. It was never something I thought
• 54:36
  I'd want to do necessarily. I was in like a pop punk band in
• 54:40
  high school and then an indie sort of jazz band after that.
• 54:44
  Indie jazz. It.
• 54:47
  Was weird and pretentious. It was uni days.
• 54:53
  And then, yeah. Some friends from college were
• 54:55
  putting together a metal band, and they used to be in a metal
• 54:57
  band. And I think I sort of asked them
• 54:59
  a few times like, hey, if you need a guitarist, let me know.
• 55:02
  And then they were like, well, we need a bassist.
• 55:05
  I was like, no problem, I'll just learn bass, it's fine.
• 55:08
  What could go wrong? It turns out, yeah, learning
• 55:11
  bassist. It's close.
• 55:13
  Enough to a guitar. That I could pass it off on the
• 55:15
  early days no problem and then it was like, right, I should
• 55:18
  probably actually treat it as a separate instrument and learn
• 55:21
  this properly and then I think that's when I started to enjoy
• 55:24
  bass a lot more but yeah, it. Is.
• 55:27
  Like a brotherhood of of the five of us, I say the five of
• 55:31
  us. There's also our management now
• 55:33
  and there's Tom, who's our merch guy, who's like the unofficial 6
• 55:36
  member of the band. He's he's there at almost every
• 55:39
  show. He just appears out of nowhere.
• 55:41
  It's like this merch guru and then just runs away into the
• 55:44
  night. He's a lovely, lovely man.
• 55:46
  He will be at our show. In some other capacity that I
• 55:50
  can't tell you about because I just realized I'm not meant to
• 55:52
  say. But yeah, go on, go.
• 56:00
  On I was going to. Say, I'm sure you can, you can
• 56:04
  relate to this, that being in a band, being in the music scene
• 56:07
  has its ups and downs. In the you'll have a gig where
• 56:10
  you're on top of the world. You play into X number.
• 56:14
  Of people and it's. Great.
• 56:15
  And then you'll have the exact opposite where you play into one
• 56:18
  person in Middlesbrough and you're like, why am I doing this
• 56:22
  again? Especially, you just have to
• 56:25
  like. Take it for what it is.
• 56:26
  Do you know what I mean? Like when I was regularly
• 56:28
  getting gigs and I was in a band at the time, yeah, it really was
• 56:33
  frustrating. But now I'm like man, I'd give.
• 56:36
  Anything to have? Gigs, do you know what I mean?
• 56:38
  Like, yeah, because at least I consider myself a much better
• 56:41
  musician now, but, you know, I never get taken seriously for
• 56:43
  that. So I'm like, well, I don't know,
• 56:45
  fuck it. Like, I've.
• 56:46
  I've not performed at all this year.
• 56:50
  Yeah. I guess I'm just like a bit.
• 56:52
  Broken hearted about it. I'm releasing music and stuff
• 56:54
  still, but still writing. But yeah, I think, I think if I
• 56:58
  was going to continue in music, I'd need a band, really.
• 57:03
  But yeah, I don't know. Finding reliable people is like
• 57:05
  trying to find the Holy Grail. It's just, you know what I mean,
• 57:09
  guitarists, there's a load. Of those, it's drummers.
• 57:12
  Drummers are the are the Holy Grail of bands.
• 57:14
  Like every drum you know will be in six of the bands.
• 57:17
  Yeah, I, I see. I think there's a problem with
• 57:19
  that. There's a lot of people that I
• 57:21
  know that are in multiple bands, and I'm like, how can you really
• 57:25
  dedicate yourself in the way that's necessary?
• 57:28
  I don't think you really can, you know, if.
• 57:31
  Yeah. As long as the.
• 57:34
  Bands are fine. As long as the two or more bands
• 57:36
  are fine with sharing, I remember, I think there's no
• 57:40
  necessary problem with it. It's when that you get booked
• 57:42
  onto shows on the same day, you've got to find a debt for
• 57:45
  this, that and the other, it can become a problem.
• 57:47
  I mean I I think the bigger issue is.
• 57:48
  Is more the level of commitment as far as, let's say, let's say,
• 57:53
  just for argument's sake, you joined another band, right?
• 57:57
  Now 40,000 leagues. Gigs fairly regularly from what
• 58:01
  I've seen. If you were doing the same thing
• 58:04
  with another band, there is Kind.
• 58:07
  Of a conflict of interest. As far as, like, you know, they
• 58:09
  know that you're not fully committed.
• 58:12
  You know, you're not fully committed.
• 58:15
  And sooner or later there's going to be a point where you
• 58:20
  have to kind of decide which one gets more of your attention.
• 58:24
  Yeah, I think. I think there's.
• 58:25
  Definitely a break if both of them start gaining traction.
• 58:28
  There's definitely a breaking point, isn't there?
• 58:29
  I think it's like that. Which one?
• 58:32
  Yeah. Do you?
• 58:34
  Do you? Step away from one.
• 58:37
  Do you find a second drummer to share your time in one with you?
• 58:42
  I wouldn't know how to approach and that's partly why I've never
• 58:45
  joined another band because I just haven't got the time.
• 58:47
  I would love to, but genuinely, no time.
• 58:50
  Sorry. I pulled over my drink weirdly
• 58:51
  there. Well, that's the thing as well.
• 58:53
  Like I look at it, people have asked me.
• 58:56
  Like how I juggle. Things and the answer to that is
• 58:59
  you have to put your focus into certain things that demand it so
• 59:05
  sometimes. Like I, I'm always able to.
• 59:09
  Release the podcast that's once a week.
• 59:11
  It's not, it's not tough. But when it comes to like
• 59:14
  acting, music, etcetera. Like last year I released my
• 59:17
  debut album. Some music really was like the
• 59:20
  focus that year. So acting took a side seat And
• 59:25
  you know, I, I, I wasn't really pushing it.
• 59:27
  I was still doing voice acting, but acting was just kind of not.
• 59:31
  Really going anywhere? But I think as long as you have
• 59:35
  a few projects in a year, like I always consider that as like
• 59:38
  something, you know, like like this year, it'll be like, I just
• 59:41
  need to get one on screen project and I'll be happy with
• 59:45
  that. Like, it's not much, but like
• 59:47
  for me it's it's I don't know, it's something.
• 59:51
  But anyway, that name 40,000 leagues.
• 59:58
  For some reason I thought about 36 crazy fists.
• 1:00:00
  That's the first thing I thought.
• 1:00:02
  OK, yes. Where?
• 1:00:04
  Does this name come from? What is this name?
• 1:00:07
  Is it a Warhammer throwback or something?
• 1:00:09
  Like what the fuck's going on so.
• 1:00:11
  We struggled with names when we were putting the band together.
• 1:00:16
  We went through all options of like single word names, similar
• 1:00:20
  to trivia and stuff like that. Trivium's a big influence for us
• 1:00:23
  and nothing, nothing gelled and we're like, right, let's let's
• 1:00:27
  look at some classic influences. Let's look at some classic
• 1:00:29
  books, Greek mythology, this that note, see if we can find a
• 1:00:33
  word, a brand name, anything that would sound good and.
• 1:00:40
  I think someone suggested 20. Thousand that he's under the sea
• 1:00:44
  and our drummer was like yeah, we could have like a mascot
• 1:00:46
  who's a scuba diving, say lobster, but he came out with
• 1:00:50
  hamster and. For some reason this.
• 1:00:52
  Broke everybody on the day. No one at that moment in time
• 1:00:56
  clocked the book is 20,000 leagues under the sea and not
• 1:00:59
  40,000 leagues under the sea. And we're like, yeah, that's
• 1:01:01
  just going to be 40,000 leagues. It's like a classic reference
• 1:01:04
  not realizing that we fucked it up.
• 1:01:08
  Brilliant. We got a.
• 1:01:09
  Logo. Designed and then at some point
• 1:01:11
  within the next year, I think someone pointed out that it's
• 1:01:13
  20,000 leagues under the sea. Like that's too late now.
• 1:01:19
  It's double what? More could you want?
• 1:01:21
  It's double the lead, I think it goes.
• 1:01:23
  Past the centre of the earth. I don't know where it goes
• 1:01:25
  through at that point. Double the pleasure.
• 1:01:29
  Double the music. We also didn't realize that.
• 1:01:31
  Because we have a little chance at our shows.
• 1:01:33
  But the crowd shouts 40 Ki think Joe's brother might have started
• 1:01:37
  this. So big shout out to Ben.
• 1:01:39
  If you did start it, I'm going to say you did.
• 1:01:42
  We didn't. Realise that 40.
• 1:01:43
  K is obviously a Warhammer thing, so we'd get some comments
• 1:01:47
  from like Warhammer people like commenting Harrison, like Oh my
• 1:01:49
  God, they just don't like our music.
• 1:01:51
  Not realising yeah, I think it's a thing from Warhammer, the
• 1:01:55
  space things. It's I don't really know how
• 1:01:59
  dare. You.
• 1:02:01
  Yeah, how dare we not? Know this so yeah.
• 1:02:04
  And so there there's sadly no our guitarist Harry is into
• 1:02:08
  Warhammer, but it's it's not where our name came from either.
• 1:02:14
  Also. The.
• 1:02:15
  Warhammer people, we were, we are friends with what used to be
• 1:02:19
  a band called Vilka. They've sadly split up.
• 1:02:22
  Their prior name was Vilka Fenrika, which is a thing from
• 1:02:26
  Warhammer and I believe that Warhammer got in touch and said
• 1:02:29
  you can't use that name so they had to change their name.
• 1:02:32
  Wow. So yeah, if the Warhammer people
• 1:02:35
  are. Watching you're you, we have no
• 1:02:36
  association with your name and how our name came about.
• 1:02:42
  OK, let's have some. Fun.
• 1:02:44
  OK, Sir. Because this has just.
• 1:02:46
  Not been fun at all. Fucked it, Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  No, it's been boring. It's serious.
• 1:02:53
  Best. And worst.
• 1:02:54
  Show you've ever played Go. Oh, so let's start with a good
• 1:03:04
  one. Start with a good one.
• 1:03:07
  No switch switch. Switch Let's start with a bad
• 1:03:10
  worst show we. This show had some lovely.
• 1:03:15
  Moments that were not the show itself.
• 1:03:19
  We got booked to play Real. We ended up playing too.
• 1:03:23
  So it was us, this other band called King Beef or something
• 1:03:26
  like that, and then this touring Italian band and.
• 1:03:32
  And basically we ended up playing to King.
• 1:03:33
  B Because the touring Italian band didn't come and see us.
• 1:03:36
  Oh, wankers. Yeah.
• 1:03:38
  There was no amps. There was no cabs, there was no
• 1:03:41
  nothing. We weren't told this.
• 1:03:43
  So we had to sort of dip back, get some gear, talk to King B
• 1:03:48
  very nicely about borrowing gear.
• 1:03:50
  And they were lovely. They were like sort of that
• 1:03:52
  lovely dad rock kind of bands. They're just doing it.
• 1:03:56
  They're not. They're having a laugh and they
• 1:03:58
  were, you know what, playing to them was amazing.
• 1:04:00
  But that's what we the only people we played to and likewise
• 1:04:03
  we were the only people they played to.
• 1:04:05
  And it was in this middle of it was in like this labyrinth like
• 1:04:10
  pub in the middle of rail. No one was in the pub Real like
• 1:04:14
  sort of deepest darkest Wales because it sounded like
• 1:04:17
  something out of fucking Middle Earth.
• 1:04:20
  What's that? Place saying in Lord of the
• 1:04:23
  Rings? I don't know.
• 1:04:25
  Sort of. If you.
• 1:04:26
  Twinned a Welsh town with Blackpool.
• 1:04:31
  OK, yeah, they were lovely. We played to them.
• 1:04:35
  They played towards the Italian band finally came in and both us
• 1:04:38
  and this is about like fuck you guys, we're going home.
• 1:04:40
  So they they played to a room of nobody.
• 1:04:43
  Did they see you? Leaving Oh yeah, we we saw.
• 1:04:47
  Them eating food outside just before our set because they
• 1:04:50
  didn't want to come in. So when?
• 1:04:52
  They saw you leaving. What was their reaction?
• 1:04:56
  I think one of them had a look. Of oh so like the the IT hit him
• 1:05:01
  was like, Oh yeah, we should probably watch our support bands
• 1:05:03
  kind of thing. Don't remember the name of that
• 1:05:10
  band. But we played last year.
• 1:05:13
  Actually, we played with another couple of touring battalion
• 1:05:16
  bands. Completely the opposite.
• 1:05:17
  They were some of the nicest people I've ever met.
• 1:05:20
  The Strange Visions and 8th Avoid if anyone's into metal and
• 1:05:25
  like power metal, they're incredible.
• 1:05:28
  They have the singer Blind Guardian on one of their tracks.
• 1:05:31
  They had the singer Dream Theatre on one of the other
• 1:05:34
  tracks. They were just honestly, they
• 1:05:37
  were like one of the tightest bands I've ever seen, unlike the
• 1:05:41
  Circuit that we Are and thoroughly would recommend them.
• 1:05:44
  They're lovely, lovely people as well.
• 1:05:47
  But that, yeah, that's probably. Reel is probably one of our
• 1:05:50
  worst gigs. That was.
• 1:05:52
  Very, very early days. Back in the band, best gig
• 1:05:54
  you've ever played. Basket.
• 1:05:56
  So. I'm going to go.
• 1:05:58
  With one we did last. Year so we supported Blaze
• 1:06:01
  Bailey from next time Morgan and I was I was breaking it all the
• 1:06:06
  way through or like leading up to it was like this is Blaze
• 1:06:08
  Bailey. Jan's our new drummer.
• 1:06:11
  This is our we've only done one show with him prior to this.
• 1:06:14
  Our drummer Paul sort of dipped out because he's had a second
• 1:06:19
  child. So we'll get someone in Walt
• 1:06:21
  Paul's way. And we were all nervous, like,
• 1:06:24
  oh, is it going to go well, we don't want to mess up in front
• 1:06:26
  of Blaze Bailey. Yeah, no, it's just it was just
• 1:06:30
  one of those shows where everything went right.
• 1:06:33
  The crowd loved it. We loved it.
• 1:06:35
  Blaze Bailey isn't a very interesting man to talk to.
• 1:06:39
  What's? What makes him interesting
• 1:06:42
  exactly, You say. You say that like he's a bit of
• 1:06:44
  a character. Well, he was on vocal.
• 1:06:46
  Rest when he tried to talk to him.
• 1:06:47
  So he spoke to me in what I can describe as a sign language he'd
• 1:06:50
  made-up. Interesting it was.
• 1:06:54
  It was a lot of. Like nods and devil horn
• 1:06:56
  gestures, which I took was this is a good sign.
• 1:06:59
  So I mean there there is the. The story about how when he
• 1:07:04
  joined Maiden he fucked his vocal chords from trying to sing
• 1:07:08
  like Bruce Dickinson and he he could do it.
• 1:07:12
  You can hear. Him on the live recordings doing
• 1:07:15
  it. But he's he's.
• 1:07:17
  He was. Operating outside of.
• 1:07:19
  His vocal range, so it he really messed up his vocal cords so
• 1:07:24
  maybe that's why he does it. Maybe that's like doctor's
• 1:07:26
  orders to be fair like he this. Was the last day on his tour and
• 1:07:32
  like. I think he'd been.
• 1:07:33
  At it solid for like 10 days straight so completely
• 1:07:36
  understandable for us but no, you seem like a lovely dude and
• 1:07:39
  the rest of his band we know through Absolver who are such
• 1:07:43
  nice guys as well. But yeah, it was a genuine
• 1:07:45
  privilege to get to play with them so.
• 1:07:48
  Nice one. Let's let's look at what are the
• 1:07:53
  goals for the band? Where, where are you aiming to
• 1:07:56
  to go future wise? So we've got the.
• 1:08:00
  Academy show coming up in April, which is our first headline show
• 1:08:03
  at Manchester Academy, which incredibly excited for and also
• 1:08:07
  shitting it about so but yeah, I think from there we want to try
• 1:08:12
  and take it as well we have. Some.
• 1:08:17
  Surprises coming up, we've got our new single dropping on the
• 1:08:20
  27th of March, Reawakening, which I was left in charge of
• 1:08:24
  making a music video for which features Dan McGee who we've
• 1:08:27
  talked about. So I'm excited.
• 1:08:31
  For everyone to see that we have some of the surprises and
• 1:08:35
  possible releases coming up, but I can't say because we've not
• 1:08:37
  announced them yet. I'm just going to look over
• 1:08:39
  there. But yeah, this year I think we
• 1:08:42
  want to try and hit the festival circuits as much as we can and
• 1:08:48
  then. Basically we we want to try.
• 1:08:51
  And get the gigs. As far and.
• 1:08:54
  Wide as possible, if there's any touring bands who'd be
• 1:08:56
  interested in having us on with them, that kind of thing, that's
• 1:08:59
  where we want to take it because Manchester is obviously an
• 1:09:02
  amazing place to play. But I think we've for us, we've
• 1:09:06
  seen perhaps as much as we can currently do in Manchester.
• 1:09:12
  Do you? I presume you might have done.
• 1:09:16
  This, but like often. What I.
• 1:09:19
  See with with like local bands or bands that are in this kind
• 1:09:23
  of circuit, when there's a bigger band coming over,
• 1:09:27
  they're. Already aware and they reach.
• 1:09:28
  Out kind of have you like reached out directly to, I don't
• 1:09:30
  know, like fucking fuzzy comes here a lot.
• 1:09:33
  For example, have you ever like reached out to them and been
• 1:09:35
  like, hey, we're based in the area, we play regularly.
• 1:09:39
  If you ever need someone for the European leg, give us a shout
• 1:09:42
  like have you guys tried doing that?
• 1:09:44
  That's actually. Written into my diary to do the
• 1:09:47
  the week after our gig so I've got some in mind like bands that
• 1:09:51
  you. Know they and they announce a
• 1:09:53
  tour like and they and you see the date for Manchester, you're
• 1:09:56
  like, hey, what about us? Yeah.
• 1:10:01
  There are there. Are a couple we've gone you know
• 1:10:03
  what we'll we'll drop them a message maybe nothing will come
• 1:10:06
  a bit, but yes that that is the plan that is where we want to
• 1:10:09
  take it to be fair because it's standard protocol isn't.
• 1:10:12
  It you you come and do a live show in Manchester or Liverpool,
• 1:10:17
  somewhere like that. The first band you see,
• 1:10:20
  generally speaking, and unless they've got specific support
• 1:10:25
  acts that they're they're playing with, like for instance,
• 1:10:27
  when I saw Soil a couple of years ago, the bands they had
• 1:10:30
  with them were bands they've been playing with for years.
• 1:10:32
  Similar error. So you're like, oh, OK.
• 1:10:35
  But when it's just like a general band and there's there's
• 1:10:38
  no specific tour requirements, like yeah, you first bands,
• 1:10:43
  local band, yeah, I think. That I.
• 1:10:45
  Think touring bands are generally getting better with
• 1:10:48
  that. To be fair, you've seen a lot
• 1:10:49
  like Skin Dread last year they did AI think they did 2 tours
• 1:10:54
  they did. One was almost like a stadium
• 1:10:55
  tour and one which was smaller shows, and for every single
• 1:10:58
  smaller show they had an opening band who was local, like Ward
• 1:11:02
  16, who's a band we sort of know through people, was one of the
• 1:11:05
  opening acts for them and it looked absolutely incredible.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah. Yeah, I think the the.
• 1:11:13
  Higher ups. In the music scene are starting
• 1:11:15
  to realize that Oh yeah, we probably need to look after some
• 1:11:18
  of these smaller bands and give them the chances here and there
• 1:11:22
  yeah, I mean and. The the the flip always happens
• 1:11:25
  inevitably as well where you end up being the bigger band in the
• 1:11:29
  future and the older band ends up supporting you.
• 1:11:33
  I see the the best. Example I can give.
• 1:11:35
  That I remember is there was a band years ago, I think they've
• 1:11:38
  returned called I Killed the Prom Queen and but I saw them at
• 1:11:43
  a gig and it was their final gig ever before they the.
• 1:11:48
  First retirement. In like 2007 and lo and behold
• 1:11:53
  or 2006 I think it was and their support.
• 1:11:56
  Was. Bring Me the Horizon amongst
• 1:11:58
  other bands. Yeah, I was in the London scene
• 1:12:01
  seeing them as they were coming up, and it was crazy fucking
• 1:12:04
  shit. I was at the infamous Camden
• 1:12:07
  Barfly show where everyone got pepper sprayed in.
• 1:12:10
  And yeah, so if you go on the Wikipedia and you see that I was
• 1:12:14
  at that show. Anyway, you know that they had.
• 1:12:21
  I think they had. Architects there that night as
• 1:12:23
  well. And obviously architects of
• 1:12:25
  booming horizon became huge, especially booming horizon over
• 1:12:29
  the the next decade to get 2 decades.
• 1:12:32
  And then in more recent years, you see like I killed the Pom
• 1:12:35
  Queen as as like a support guest to some of these bands moving
• 1:12:39
  forward. And like you remember, you
• 1:12:40
  remember stuff like that. You remember who gave you a
• 1:12:42
  chance? You remember these things.
• 1:12:45
  You know, Metallica famously had like diamond heads on their BIG4
• 1:12:50
  shows because they were like, well, this band inspired us.
• 1:12:52
  We're going to put them there. And you know, I, I think it's
• 1:12:56
  just a nice nod. It's very classy move, you know,
• 1:12:59
  and also I think if you're being serious about the future, like
• 1:13:02
  you won't be big forever, but these bands coming through the
• 1:13:06
  next bands, you know, I can't speak much to the modern metal
• 1:13:09
  scene, but I I will say that from what I see, it's it's going
• 1:13:13
  very strong and there's plenty of great bands.
• 1:13:15
  There's a lot of throwback bands, a lot of.
• 1:13:19
  Artists are kind of yeah, doing that throwback sounds, but.
• 1:13:23
  Been a modern take on it and it's interesting to see that.
• 1:13:26
  Sort of like ghost tail gunner. At the moment, a very sort of
• 1:13:29
  80s and 70s sounds and doing very well with it.
• 1:13:33
  Yeah, no, the Manchester scene though, like pretty much every
• 1:13:36
  band we've played with in Manchester, is genuinely some of
• 1:13:41
  the nicest people you're ever going to meet.
• 1:13:43
  There's the competition they do for Bloodstock every year, metal
• 1:13:46
  to the masses, and that helped us out so much.
• 1:13:49
  It buzzed in front of new audiences, new bands, new
• 1:13:51
  connections. For any metal band in any city.
• 1:13:54
  I would thoroughly recommend it because it's just it's a good.
• 1:13:58
  It's a great couple. Of gigs, yeah.
• 1:14:01
  I think what blows my mind about that as well is that if you see
• 1:14:06
  the bands from. Top to bottom.
• 1:14:07
  They're all fucking amazing and I'm always like just dumbfounded
• 1:14:11
  that. Because I I know.
• 1:14:14
  That obviously the winner gets to go to bloodstock and
• 1:14:16
  everything, but like you know, when I look at.
• 1:14:19
  Bands like. You know, Zenith or Leader or
• 1:14:22
  bands like that. And I'm like, they've been doing
• 1:14:24
  this so long and they're so good and they just deserve the world.
• 1:14:27
  And you're like, what's what's going on?
• 1:14:29
  And I don't know it. In a way, it's a popularity.
• 1:14:34
  Contest, but everyone's nice. No one no one's shitty about it,
• 1:14:37
  but it's just a bit like it just kind of sucks.
• 1:14:40
  Like you really want to see these bands do better.
• 1:14:43
  Yeah. It's, it's that.
• 1:14:44
  Thing that if everyone could win that would be the idea yeah
• 1:14:47
  yeah, I know I'm not I'm. Not trying to say like, oh,
• 1:14:50
  everyone does, you know that. I just mean that like when you
• 1:14:53
  see these bands year after year and you're just like, you just
• 1:14:58
  should be so like, like I. See Zenith and I'm like.
• 1:15:02
  That they should be on festival they are so good.
• 1:15:06
  I've only seen them once or twice, but they're.
• 1:15:08
  So good. Same with leader, like leaders
• 1:15:10
  really. Yeah, lots of energy there as
• 1:15:12
  well. It's yeah, there's with any
• 1:15:15
  competition, whether it's music or the arts, it's because.
• 1:15:19
  It's based. On personal taste, it's never
• 1:15:22
  quite going to make it for anyone, but I'd say melt the
• 1:15:26
  masses is that Yeah, whoever. Wins it they're.
• 1:15:29
  Great bloodstock. This is an incredible thing.
• 1:15:31
  Even just get into the final, get into the semi finals, you're
• 1:15:35
  still going to pick up a load of new fans.
• 1:15:37
  You never know who's watching. I think not the we've been in
• 1:15:41
  the finals twice, we've never won it, sadly.
• 1:15:45
  Third time lucky. No.
• 1:15:47
  We, we, we've said we won't do the competitions again.
• 1:15:50
  Not Gig's a gig man. Gig is a gig, yeah.
• 1:15:56
  I think sometimes it hits some of us a bit hard and also like.
• 1:16:03
  We. Yeah, we we're.
• 1:16:04
  We're we're at that level where we just want to sort of do other
• 1:16:09
  shows. Obviously, if not a massive one
• 1:16:11
  of those guests, I would absolutely love to do that.
• 1:16:14
  But yeah, because James and Jane who run it are really good
• 1:16:17
  friends of mine. They run the Manchester one.
• 1:16:18
  That's some of the best promoters in the UK.
• 1:16:21
  Like for any bands out there, reach out to the 0161 Manchester
• 1:16:25
  and the Grand Metal community. They're some of the best in the
• 1:16:28
  business. I lost my train of thought.
• 1:16:32
  I reckon one more time. I reckon, I reckon you should
• 1:16:35
  give it one more time. One more time I'll.
• 1:16:36
  Have a chat with management. We have management, so I don't
• 1:16:39
  think you're allowed to do it with management.
• 1:16:42
  I mean, look, you've. Got management.
• 1:16:44
  For a band, they're. Always going to look at the same
• 1:16:47
  things like how does this help the band?
• 1:16:51
  You know, what are the expenses involved?
• 1:16:52
  What are the is it? Advantageous to both.
• 1:16:55
  Sides. At the end of the day, it puts
• 1:16:57
  you in front of people. It's your third.
• 1:16:59
  Time. I think there's a high
• 1:17:03
  probability. You could.
• 1:17:04
  You would win it. Technically it's our. 4th time
• 1:17:08
  we did do it in the. COVID year.
• 1:17:10
  But obviously I would start the same and then.
• 1:17:12
  COVID hit. So it well it.
• 1:17:16
  Just. Ended early I guess.
• 1:17:19
  They basically. Took all the.
• 1:17:22
  Bands who were either through or yet to compete and were like hey
• 1:17:28
  send us your EP KS we're going to send off 5 of.
• 1:17:32
  Them to Bloodstock and. They'll pick the winner kind of
• 1:17:34
  thing. That's not the same.
• 1:17:36
  It doesn't count. Not quite the same.
• 1:17:37
  Don't count? Yeah.
• 1:17:38
  Don't count. It's not.
• 1:17:39
  Also we had a few. Things going on that like our
• 1:17:42
  drama was quite poorly at the time, so we ended up not sending
• 1:17:45
  our EPK. He, he's all fine now, but it
• 1:17:47
  was, it was a. Case of even if we.
• 1:17:50
  Had been picked, we we probably couldn't have played.
• 1:17:54
  Well, we're talking about the the now.
• 1:17:59
  I think for. This year, obviously.
• 1:18:00
  You mentioned there's a single coming out.
• 1:18:04
  Maybe there's another medal to the.
• 1:18:05
  Masses in you. Metal masses already started
• 1:18:08
  this. Year.
• 1:18:09
  So possibly not this year, but I was going to say I won't.
• 1:18:12
  I won't say never. I'd say it's unlikely, but we
• 1:18:15
  have some other shows like this year that I can't announce until
• 1:18:19
  after our headline show. That's just teasing then.
• 1:18:22
  I know, I know, but they they will be good fun.
• 1:18:26
  They will. They are with a band I I do like
• 1:18:29
  quite a lot, so I'll famous band, big band.
• 1:18:33
  Bigger than us, cool man. Alright, so that's a wide scope.
• 1:18:40
  Of bands that are bigger than us.
• 1:18:42
  No, it's it's, it's cool, man. I mean you, you always want to.
• 1:18:46
  They will say that you want to be in A room with people that
• 1:18:49
  you know know more than you, that you can learn from,
• 1:18:52
  etcetera. And it's it's always going to
• 1:18:53
  help a band, you know, being around bands like that.
• 1:18:58
  But a? Couple of final.
• 1:18:59
  Questions for you to round things out for today.
• 1:19:04
  What has music taught? You about life?
• 1:19:06
  Oh. Oh, I'm going to.
• 1:19:12
  Fill the silence with Umbs and nerves for a second while I
• 1:19:15
  while I process this question. I think for like.
• 1:19:20
  Music I get this is going to go weird and for me at least, music
• 1:19:30
  sort. Of teaches you.
• 1:19:32
  To go out and enjoy life in that moment because that band that
• 1:19:34
  you like, they're not going to be around forever.
• 1:19:37
  This could be the last time you see them.
• 1:19:39
  This could be the last time you hear that song live.
• 1:19:42
  And it's full of their emotions, their feelings towards things.
• 1:19:45
  It's. It's about connecting with
• 1:19:48
  people. I think it's probably the most
• 1:19:52
  ephemeral way I could say that. But yeah, no, it's, it's about
• 1:19:56
  it's about connecting with the people.
• 1:19:57
  It's about enjoying experiencing things to their fullest, living
• 1:20:01
  in the moment and not waiting for that thing to happen.
• 1:20:05
  Because, yeah, by all means, put some energy into waiting for
• 1:20:09
  that next show, booking that next thing.
• 1:20:10
  Try and do that thing, but also enjoy life.
• 1:20:13
  Live in that moment and enjoy it.
• 1:20:15
  I think music is a great teacher of that.
• 1:20:18
  What has acting? Told you about life?
• 1:20:23
  To deal with rejection, No. On a serious.
• 1:20:27
  Note I guess it has like I think for every 100 jobs you apply
• 1:20:34
  for, you get rejected for 98 of them and you only hear back from
• 1:20:39
  10 of them anyway, so it's. It's also taught you that.
• 1:20:45
  Taught me, should I say that it's just keep doing what you're
• 1:20:48
  doing and the opportunity will be there and if you're ready for
• 1:20:52
  it. Take it with both hands kind of
• 1:20:55
  thing. What's the?
• 1:20:57
  Worst advice you've? Ever received?
• 1:21:03
  There's so many they've. All gone from my head.
• 1:21:08
  Top five. Top.
• 1:21:10
  Five worst advice. I was sat on the train on the
• 1:21:20
  way. Back from Huddersfield once and
• 1:21:22
  I think I was very hungover and this man sat down next to me and
• 1:21:27
  he was, you know, like. The Nutter on the bus.
• 1:21:31
  Kind of thing. This was like, he's the train
• 1:21:33
  cousin of that person and he sort of locked me into a
• 1:21:37
  conversation because he trapped me in my seat and.
• 1:21:41
  He was telling me about his. Philosophies of life.
• 1:21:43
  And he was like, you should read a chapter of the dictionary
• 1:21:46
  every day. And I was like, OK, why is that
• 1:21:49
  All words are in there if all the words are in there and all
• 1:21:53
  the advice is in there too. And I didn't want to go this is
• 1:21:57
  nonsense because I was trapped in this conversation, but.
• 1:22:02
  Yeah, and I guess in. Some way he's right.
• 1:22:04
  All, all words are in there, and if you jumble them around you'll
• 1:22:07
  find advice. Yeah, but it's without.
• 1:22:10
  Absolutely. Fucking not.
• 1:22:11
  Without context. It's, it's bollocks because
• 1:22:14
  yeah, there's words in there. I mean, the most you can get is
• 1:22:17
  you'll learn new words and you can increase your vocabulary and
• 1:22:21
  that's useful, but it's not. A bad skill?
• 1:22:23
  To have, but also the advice is not in there.
• 1:22:25
  It's not like laid out if you take one word from here.
• 1:22:28
  And there. And put them together, you'll
• 1:22:29
  get your advice I've. Not I've not thought back in
• 1:22:36
  the. Ages, but yeah, he's somewhere
• 1:22:38
  on a train between Manchester and Huddersfield.
• 1:22:40
  That man exists, or he's like a spirit of Huddersfield.
• 1:22:46
  What's the best advice you've ever?
• 1:22:47
  Received. Good question.
• 1:22:56
  I, I can't remember, I think, I think my agent has said this to
• 1:22:59
  me at some point, but I think a lot of other people just said
• 1:23:01
  this is like, just be yourself. Stop putting on a.
• 1:23:07
  Face and a character for other. People to try and appease them.
• 1:23:10
  Just be yourself and people will like that and appreciate that
• 1:23:14
  and realise that's counterintuitive to acting
• 1:23:15
  because that's exactly what we do.
• 1:23:17
  We put in a character and a face for other people.
• 1:23:20
  But yeah, just just be yourself. Take the opportunities, take the
• 1:23:24
  risks. Be be who you.
• 1:23:27
  Want to be at the end of. The day What's?
• 1:23:30
  The biggest life lesson? You've learned so far.
• 1:23:35
  Oh. This is a random story, but.
• 1:23:45
  I'm I'm going to tell it to you because I don't know why this
• 1:23:47
  fact is probably isn't even a life lesson, but when I worked
• 1:23:51
  in the art gallery he wasn't a fan of Buddhist quotes.
• 1:23:56
  So he asked me as I was leaving on one of the last weeks, could
• 1:24:00
  I put up some inspirational quotes for him around the place.
• 1:24:03
  So I just filled it with Buddhist quotes and took off the
• 1:24:05
  bottom that it was Buddha. And I think they were there up
• 1:24:08
  until the point of closure in that library.
• 1:24:10
  So I can't remember a single one of those Buddhist quotes, but I
• 1:24:13
  remember thinking these are nice and wholesome.
• 1:24:15
  How could anyone not like this? Did not answer the questions.
• 1:24:22
  Realized. It was a.
• 1:24:24
  Nice story. It was.
• 1:24:25
  It was. Yeah, it was sweet.
• 1:24:30
  What is the best life? I don't know.
• 1:24:37
  I guess it's not life advice, but I, I look.
• 1:24:39
  So my granddad was just, I, I think I've always just wanted to
• 1:24:47
  be like my granddad, my granddad be who was like, he was my mum's
• 1:24:52
  sort of like stepdad kind of thing, but he's been in my life
• 1:24:55
  all my life because yeah, he was there from like the 70s kind of
• 1:24:58
  thing. I'd know he was just that person
• 1:25:00
  who went out of his way to do everything for everyone and
• 1:25:03
  never complained. Like he worked in construction
• 1:25:06
  and he was the union Rep. So he got blacklisted from jobs
• 1:25:08
  left, right and centre for sticking up for the little guy.
• 1:25:12
  He's very like Uncle Ben and Spider Man, or at least that's
• 1:25:15
  how I remember him. So I think that's just, I just
• 1:25:19
  want to be like that, just be like him.
• 1:25:24
  Final question, do you have any upcoming?
• 1:25:25
  Projects or final thoughts that you'd like to share with our
• 1:25:27
  listeners? Yes.
• 1:25:30
  If anyone is a fan of metal music would like to come and see
• 1:25:33
  4000 leagues. We are playing at Manchester
• 1:25:36
  Academy on Saturday the 4th of April.
• 1:25:40
  Please do come down. Feel like I have that earmarked
• 1:25:45
  in. My calendar.
• 1:25:46
  But that's right, it clashes with something else I'm doing.
• 1:25:51
  I want it to. Come.
• 1:25:52
  I want it to come. Yeah, Can you?
• 1:25:54
  Can you? Swing by later or is it?
• 1:25:56
  Is it a new go Sir? It literally flashes at the
• 1:25:59
  same. Time because I've I've booked it
• 1:26:01
  like 8 months ago. I will get you down to another
• 1:26:06
  show. I'd like to there was 1.
• 1:26:07
  I saw come in at, is that the one at Rebellion we've played?
• 1:26:14
  Rebellion. Last year we've.
• 1:26:18
  Got nothing booked in for Rebellion so far this year.
• 1:26:20
  I, I I'd like to come to a gig. I'd I'd like to see.
• 1:26:23
  That'd be cool. I appreciate it man.
• 1:26:25
  And likewise, I need to come down to one of your shows as
• 1:26:27
  well when you get stuff booked in this year.
• 1:26:30
  Yeah, you. I don't think it's going to
• 1:26:31
  happen. I I mean I.
• 1:26:35
  Yeah, anyway, it's been a pleasure talking to you, man.
• 1:26:38
  It's thank you so much for being on the show and I wish you all
• 1:26:43
  the best. Oh, thank you very much for
• 1:26:44
  having. Me mate, it's been a good, it's
• 1:26:45
  been good fun and yeah, it's been finally actually meet you
• 1:26:47
  as well. So thank you.
• 1:26:49
  So all the listeners of the Christian Reef.
• 1:26:51
  Podcast make sure you got out of your way to listen to 40,000
• 1:26:54
  leaks and to check out Rick's acting work.
• 1:26:58
  I'll make sure there's links in the bio to do that.
• 1:27:01
  Thank you so much for being on the show, Rick, and to all the
• 1:27:03
  listeners, as always, thanks. Thank you for listening.
• 1:27:06
  Be safe, be well, and I'll see you in the next one.