Latest / Legally Brunette / The Andrea Canning Interview

Transcript

The Andrea Canning Interview · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunettes. I
0:04
Speaker 1: will be your host today, Emily Simpson with Shane Today.
0:08
Speaker 1: We are very excited because we're going to have a
0:10
Speaker 1: very special guest coming on later. I would call her
0:12
Speaker 1: the Queen of true crime. If you follow true crime
0:15
Speaker 1: at all, or you watch Dateline, you will recognize the
0:18
Speaker 1: name Andrea Canning. And she's going to come on a
0:21
Speaker 1: little later with us, and we're going to talk about today.
0:23
Speaker 1: It's a case that comes out of a little small
0:26
Speaker 1: town called Bart'stown in Kentucky, and it is the disappearance
0:31
Speaker 1: of Crystal Rogers. Now, I have to say I did
0:33
Speaker 1: not follow this case and it was not on my radar,
0:36
Speaker 1: even though it received a lot of global attention and
0:38
Speaker 1: media attention. It was not one of those cases I've followed.
0:41
Speaker 1: But I have done the best I can to research.
0:43
Speaker 1: So we're going to give you a brief overview of
0:46
Speaker 1: the case so you guys can can get to know it,
0:48
Speaker 1: and then we're going to ask Andrea some more specific questions.
0:51
Speaker 1: I'm sure she has a lot more details about the case.
0:53
Speaker 1: So Crystal Rogers was a thirty five year old mother
0:56
Speaker 1: of five children from Bardstown, Kentucky, and was reported missing
1:01
Speaker 1: on July fifth, of twenty fifteen. She was last seen
1:04
Speaker 1: by her boyfriend Brooks Halk on the night of July third,
1:08
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, at the home they shared. Two days later,
1:12
Speaker 1: Roger's car was found abandoned along a parkway with a
1:14
Speaker 1: flat tire. Her keys, purse, and cell phone were still
1:17
Speaker 1: located inside the car. The discovery of her car quickly
1:21
Speaker 1: raised suspicions of foul play. The case took a darker
1:25
Speaker 1: turn in November of twenty sixteen when Crystel's father, his
1:29
Speaker 1: name is Tommy Ballard, who had been actively searching for
1:32
Speaker 1: his daughter, was shot and killed while hunting on his property.
1:36
Speaker 1: His death remains unsolved, but it is widely believed that
1:40
Speaker 1: this murder is connected to Crystal's disappearance. Years passed with
1:44
Speaker 1: very little progress, but in August of twenty twenty three,
1:47
Speaker 1: the FBI made a significant breakthrough. As of twenty twenty five,
1:51
Speaker 1: Crystal's body has still never been located. So let's go
1:55
Speaker 1: back and start with the timeline of this case. So
1:57
Speaker 1: we're talking about the fourth of July weekend of twenty fifteen.
2:01
Speaker 1: Brooks Howck was reaching out to Crystal saying, let's have
2:06
Speaker 1: a romantic type of date night right at their family farm.
2:10
Speaker 2: This is at the Hawk family farm.
2:12
Speaker 3: How is the boyfriend?
2:13
Speaker 1: How is the boyfriend? And also the Hawk family. It
2:16
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of the Murdoch family because from
2:19
Speaker 1: what I've read this Hawk family is they have a
2:22
Speaker 1: lot of land. They have a large farm with a
2:24
Speaker 1: lot of land. They own a lot of rental property.
2:26
Speaker 1: I believe he owns like seventy something properties. He also
2:30
Speaker 1: does construction and builds homes. So I think they're a
2:33
Speaker 1: very affluent, well known name in this very small town.
2:39
Speaker 1: So the last time Crystal Rogers was seen alive with
2:41
Speaker 1: her then boyfriend, Brooks Howck, was on July third, twenty fifteen.
2:45
Speaker 1: Halck then told investigators they were at his family farm
2:48
Speaker 1: together with their son, Eli, and that they left together
2:51
Speaker 1: that night. He said when he woke up the next day,
2:54
Speaker 1: she was gone, and Eli, the son, who I think
2:58
Speaker 1: is like toddler age at the time happened.
3:00
Speaker 3: They share a son.
3:02
Speaker 1: They share a son together. She has four other children
3:04
Speaker 1: from other previous relationships, but they do have the one
3:08
Speaker 1: son together, and Brooks claims that he woke up the
3:11
Speaker 1: next morning after they went to the family farm the
3:13
Speaker 1: night before and he said she was gone. He also
3:16
Speaker 1: claims that the night before the last time he saw her,
3:19
Speaker 1: he went to bed around midnight and she was playing
3:22
Speaker 1: on her phone, is what he claims. But the thing is,
3:25
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem too concerned when he wakes up and
3:27
Speaker 1: she's not there. And then I remember in an interrogation
3:31
Speaker 1: or a questioning by the police, this is a detective
3:34
Speaker 1: John Snow when he questioned him, he was saying, well,
3:37
Speaker 1: where was Eli, And he said Eli was in bed
3:39
Speaker 1: with him when he woke up. So he wakes up
3:41
Speaker 1: and he claims that the baby's in bed with him,
3:43
Speaker 1: the mother's gone, and he doesn't find that strange.
3:47
Speaker 4: First thing anytime some boyfriend or husband just says, I
3:50
Speaker 4: don't know, she just vanished. She didn't take her purse,
3:53
Speaker 4: shouldn't take her wallet, she didn't take her kids. She
3:56
Speaker 4: just disappeared. I mean that right there is a huge right.
3:59
Speaker 2: Well, he didn't say that.
4:00
Speaker 1: He claimed that he just thought she was with her
4:02
Speaker 1: cousin who is a close friend of hers. Okay, I
4:04
Speaker 1: believe her name was Sabrina.
4:05
Speaker 4: Okay, so so far he has reason to think she
4:08
Speaker 4: just left early and went somewhere, yes, or at least
4:11
Speaker 4: that's his story.
4:12
Speaker 1: That's his story. So on July fifth, twenty fifteen, Crystal's mother,
4:15
Speaker 1: Sherry Ballard, reports her daughter missing after she cannot reach her.
4:18
Speaker 1: That same day, Crystal's car is then found abandoned along
4:22
Speaker 1: the Bluegrass Parkway. Her keys were in the ignition, her
4:26
Speaker 1: phone and purse were still in the car, and the
4:28
Speaker 1: car has a flat tire. Although we did see an
4:31
Speaker 1: interview with the dad and the brother, and the brother
4:34
Speaker 1: and the dad were both claiming that she would never
4:36
Speaker 1: have left her car like that because the tire you
4:38
Speaker 1: could still drive on.
4:39
Speaker 2: It wasn't completely flat, it was flow.
4:41
Speaker 4: Remember that he's done that before or something where she'll
4:43
Speaker 4: drive as far as she candy get somewhere, right.
4:46
Speaker 2: And I think that's just females in general, because I
4:48
Speaker 2: would do the same thing.
4:49
Speaker 3: I tell my kids that I say we can buy
4:50
Speaker 3: a new reel right.
4:52
Speaker 2: It means your safety right exactly.
4:54
Speaker 1: So I can't imagine if the car is still functioning
4:57
Speaker 1: and the tire is not completely flat, that you wouldn't
5:00
Speaker 1: just continue on until you got to a parking lot
5:02
Speaker 1: or somewhere safe, not just abandoning a car on the
5:05
Speaker 1: side of the road, leaving your purse, your cell phone.
5:07
Speaker 2: And then left right. So July eighth of.
5:12
Speaker 1: Twenty fifteen, brooks Howe is brought into the police station
5:15
Speaker 1: and is questioned by Detective John Snow. He's also named
5:20
Speaker 1: of a person of interest at this time. I actually
5:22
Speaker 1: watched this. I don't know what you want to call it.
5:24
Speaker 1: You want to call it an interrogation, questioning, whatever, you know.
5:28
Speaker 1: The thing that I think is the most interesting is
5:31
Speaker 1: when someone can't really answer precise questions about times when
5:35
Speaker 1: someone has disappeared, when they're not sure, and it felt
5:39
Speaker 1: like the detective was like, well, did you leave it
5:41
Speaker 1: this time?
5:42
Speaker 4: Oh sounds good, Also not even making an effort to
5:44
Speaker 4: try to recall, like trying to put the pieces.
5:46
Speaker 1: Together right, Like it was just like, yeah, that sounds good. Sure,
5:50
Speaker 1: maybe like that, yeah, probably about that time.
5:52
Speaker 2: No, no, right. And also the red.
5:54
Speaker 1: Flag is claiming that they were at this family farm
5:57
Speaker 1: and that they were and that he had, you know,
6:00
Speaker 1: lit a fire. He said, he burns a lot of
6:02
Speaker 1: things at this farm, and he had the sun with him,
6:04
Speaker 1: and she was there too, and they were there for
6:05
Speaker 1: a long span of time. He claims. However, it's like
6:08
Speaker 1: muddy and cold and rainy that day. So I don't
6:10
Speaker 1: know how you're out at a family farm with a
6:13
Speaker 1: little child and you're out in the rain and the
6:16
Speaker 1: mud and you're there for a long period of time.
6:19
Speaker 3: Behavior.
6:20
Speaker 1: So then during this this is also interesting. So during
6:23
Speaker 1: this questioning, around seven pm, he gets a call on
6:27
Speaker 1: his cell phone and I watched this interrogation or questioning,
6:31
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. His cell phone rings
6:33
Speaker 1: and he says to the detective, do you mind if
6:35
Speaker 1: I answer this? And the detective says, my co conspirator,
6:39
Speaker 1: I would sure go ahead. First of all, I can't
6:43
Speaker 1: imagine if I'm in a police station across from a
6:46
Speaker 1: detective being questioned about the disappearance of my significant other
6:50
Speaker 1: that I'm like, excuse me for a moment, can I
6:52
Speaker 1: please take this call?
6:54
Speaker 3: But he does well, and him take the call knowing it.
6:57
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm so.
6:59
Speaker 1: Anyway, his brother, Nick, how who is a police officer
7:04
Speaker 1: at the Bardstown Police Department. Department this, if you guys
7:10
Speaker 1: have the opportunity, just google it. Google this, this interrogation,
7:13
Speaker 1: this questioning. You have to watch this phone call. It's
7:16
Speaker 1: the most bizarre phone call to me because if you
7:19
Speaker 1: called me and I picked up during you know, this questioning,
7:22
Speaker 1: and you're telling me things, my responses on the other
7:24
Speaker 1: end would be like okay, uh huh okay.
7:29
Speaker 3: But everything's like, okay, where do we put the body?
7:32
Speaker 5: Hey?
7:32
Speaker 1: So he's like, so you're telling me I shouldn't answer
7:35
Speaker 1: question like he's everything he's saying is like, so okay,
7:39
Speaker 1: So just to so you're saying, right, so fred I
7:44
Speaker 1: should get up and I should walk out and leave.
7:46
Speaker 1: It's just so bizarre to me, this conversation incriminating myself, right,
7:50
Speaker 1: And so he hangs up with his brother and he's like,
7:53
Speaker 1: that's my brother. He's a police officer. He's telling me
7:55
Speaker 1: that you guys are gonna screw me and that I
7:57
Speaker 1: need to leave. So I'm not going to answer any
7:58
Speaker 1: questions anymore. He doesn't trust cop, he doesn't exactly, So
8:05
Speaker 1: I guess at that point the questioning ends, and then
8:07
Speaker 1: you know Nick Howe, who's a police officer.
8:10
Speaker 2: Then they know about this, right, it's right there. I mean.
8:13
Speaker 2: So then his chief of.
8:14
Speaker 3: Police or whoever he's on their radar right now, he's.
8:17
Speaker 2: On the radar.
8:17
Speaker 1: They go to him and they're like, why would you
8:19
Speaker 1: not answer questions. You need to go down and answer
8:22
Speaker 1: this detective questions immediately, so then you get video footage
8:26
Speaker 1: of them questioning the brother. The brother can't remember anything.
8:30
Speaker 1: He doesn't know anything, he can't recall, doesn't like I.
8:33
Speaker 3: Pick up this phone call.
8:35
Speaker 4: He has no idea my brother, and he's telling me
8:37
Speaker 4: not to answer anything.
8:38
Speaker 2: He can't recall anything.
8:40
Speaker 1: He doesn't know what the two brothers did together after
8:42
Speaker 1: she disappeared. They I guess they have video surveillance of
8:45
Speaker 1: like the two of them leaving together. He doesn't know
8:46
Speaker 1: where they went. He doesn't know what they're doing. He
8:49
Speaker 1: can't he doesn't remember anything. He gets fired, well, yeah, he.
8:52
Speaker 3: Has no memory. He can get cop it without a memory.
8:55
Speaker 1: He's accused of warning Brooks not to speak to police,
8:58
Speaker 1: and he has later fired from the Bardtown Police to
9:00
Speaker 1: apartment for interfering in the investigation.
9:03
Speaker 4: You know, it is interesting though, because just because he's
9:05
Speaker 4: a police officer doesn't mean that his brother can't plead
9:10
Speaker 4: the fifth can't have an attorney and must spill everything.
9:15
Speaker 4: But I think there's some I don't know. I just
9:18
Speaker 4: figure with police officers, there's something where if there's an investigation,
9:22
Speaker 4: they either can't get can't meddle into someone's business. You know,
9:26
Speaker 4: if they're trying to conduct an investigation, or maybe they're
9:29
Speaker 4: not to they themselves have to be interviewed. And if
9:33
Speaker 4: someone is not criminal, they have to tell everything. And
9:36
Speaker 4: here he is not remembering anything, basically not being willing
9:38
Speaker 4: to share.
9:39
Speaker 3: So they cut him lose.
9:40
Speaker 4: Probably he probably violated some employment agreements as a police officer.
9:46
Speaker 2: Right.
9:46
Speaker 1: So then about sixteen months after this, they still haven't
9:49
Speaker 1: found the body, and they haven't arrested anyone.
9:52
Speaker 3: They've never found the body.
9:53
Speaker 2: They've never found the body.
9:54
Speaker 3: I mean, give me an update, it will be they
9:55
Speaker 3: still haven't found.
9:56
Speaker 1: They still haven't found the body. But here we are
9:57
Speaker 1: sixteen months later. So just to give you a little background,
10:01
Speaker 1: Crystal's dad, Tommy Ballard, was he became an investigator himself.
10:06
Speaker 1: He was so hell bent on finding his daughter that
10:09
Speaker 1: he spent every single day investigating what happened to her.
10:13
Speaker 1: He was either internet searching or he was going around
10:16
Speaker 1: by foot and interviewing people. He had a huge box
10:19
Speaker 1: that was very well organized. He kept logs of everything,
10:22
Speaker 1: He kept dates and receipts, and he went and got
10:25
Speaker 1: video footage from surveillance cameras, and so he was heavily
10:29
Speaker 1: involved in trying to find out what happened to his daughter. Then,
10:33
Speaker 1: sixteen months after she disappeared, this is in November of
10:35
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Crystal's father, Tommy Ballard, goes out hunting with
10:40
Speaker 1: his grandson on their own property and he is shot
10:43
Speaker 1: and killed while he's hunting.
10:45
Speaker 3: Eleven year old son. Right, I believe he.
10:46
Speaker 2: Was around eleven something like that.
10:48
Speaker 1: The shooting has rolled a homicide, but no suspects are identified.
10:51
Speaker 1: After his death, the community's suspicions grow that both cases
10:54
Speaker 1: are connected. I mean, it doesn't take a rocket science
10:57
Speaker 1: is to figure out that it's most likely connect to
11:00
Speaker 1: the disappearance of Crystal Rogers because you have a dad
11:03
Speaker 1: that's heavily involved in investigating, and I feel like maybe
11:06
Speaker 1: he was coming close to learning things. He was interviewing people,
11:09
Speaker 1: he was pulling surveillance, and if he was meddling and
11:12
Speaker 1: finding and getting too close to things, I mean.
11:15
Speaker 3: You're gonna have a hunting accident.
11:16
Speaker 2: You're gonna have a hunting accident.
11:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I saw Oxygen did kind of
11:22
Speaker 1: a documentary and this is before his death.
11:25
Speaker 2: There were a lot of.
11:26
Speaker 1: Interviews with him, and they were following him and then
11:28
Speaker 1: they interviewed the brother and the brother showed them the
11:31
Speaker 1: location where he was shot when he was out hunting,
11:33
Speaker 1: and there was actually a line of trees that was
11:36
Speaker 1: very thick, but they found an area where someone had
11:39
Speaker 1: cut the trees to make a hole so that you
11:41
Speaker 1: had a clear view into the property. So they believe
11:45
Speaker 1: that's where the shooting came from. And you know when
11:48
Speaker 1: I say that, they the branches had you know, clean edges.
11:52
Speaker 1: Someone had taken a tool and it was it wasn't
11:57
Speaker 1: a bear, it was human tool that had removed a
12:01
Speaker 1: lot of this brush so that there was a clear
12:03
Speaker 1: area to shoot from. And they also believed that they
12:05
Speaker 1: found the kickback, which I'm not like a gun owner person,
12:09
Speaker 1: I didn't know what that meant. But they explained the
12:10
Speaker 1: kickback is when you're holding the rifle and they're like
12:13
Speaker 1: leaning up against the tree to shoot him. Then the
12:15
Speaker 1: kickback hit the tree and they found a wedge missing
12:18
Speaker 1: out of the tree, which would have been the kickback.
12:19
Speaker 1: So they think they know exactly where the shot was
12:23
Speaker 1: fired from. There's also another murder we're not going to
12:26
Speaker 1: go in depth into this, but there was also a
12:28
Speaker 1: murder of a police officer prior to Crystal's disappearance. He
12:32
Speaker 1: was murdered right before her. And there's also people that
12:37
Speaker 1: think that there is some connection there because he worked
12:39
Speaker 1: with Nick Hawk at the police department, so that was
12:42
Speaker 1: prior to Crystal Rogers, prior to her disappearance.
12:45
Speaker 4: They think there's a connection in terms of those who
12:48
Speaker 4: murdered or that it's the same motive like the.
12:51
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, what I was thinking in
12:52
Speaker 1: my takeaway was maybe ellis this cop who was a
12:55
Speaker 1: good cop, knew something about.
13:00
Speaker 3: Well, how'd you know he was a good cop.
13:01
Speaker 1: Well that's what everyone said in the interview, that he
13:03
Speaker 1: was like a great cop and that he was like
13:05
Speaker 1: a friendly guy and he was involved in his community.
13:07
Speaker 1: The married kid was suspicion, so he had no you know,
13:10
Speaker 1: stains one's reputation or anything. I think he and he
13:13
Speaker 1: had worked with the Nick Hawk at this police department.
13:15
Speaker 1: I don't know if they weren't partners or anything, but
13:17
Speaker 1: they worked in the same department. I'm just putting things together.
13:21
Speaker 1: But maybe he saw something or knew something and they
13:25
Speaker 1: needed to get rid of him, and then maybe Crystal learned.
13:28
Speaker 2: About that somehow.
13:29
Speaker 1: Maybe she learned about this murder of Ellis, this officer Ellison.
13:34
Speaker 1: Maybe she knew too much, and then the dad knew
13:36
Speaker 1: too much about her. It seems like all these people
13:38
Speaker 1: are connected somehow in this very small town. So in
13:49
Speaker 1: August of twenty twenty, this is when the FBI officially
13:52
Speaker 1: takes over the investigation into Crystal rogers disappearance, executing search
13:57
Speaker 1: warrants at Brooke Howke's home, his family farm, and other
14:00
Speaker 1: related properties. Agents also sees evidence from Nick Howke's home
14:04
Speaker 1: and several vehicles. In August of twenty twenty one, the
14:07
Speaker 1: FBI returns to Bardstown to search a subdivision built by
14:11
Speaker 1: the Hawk family, focusing on new construction sites that may
14:14
Speaker 1: have been disturbed after Rogers disappeared. You know, I know,
14:17
Speaker 1: I mean, they're searching for a body, right. They don't
14:19
Speaker 1: want to they don't want to bring murder charges against
14:22
Speaker 1: someone without a body. That's it's hard to do. So
14:26
Speaker 1: you want to find the body.
14:27
Speaker 3: A missing body does not mean they're dead.
14:29
Speaker 2: You can assume, you can make an assumption, but.
14:31
Speaker 3: You can assume wherever you want.
14:33
Speaker 4: Yeah, but legally that does not automatically there are other
14:36
Speaker 4: things that have to come into play.
14:37
Speaker 2: Well, I do believe she was actually legally.
14:41
Speaker 4: Eventually, i'd spent in the offset. It's not like, oh,
14:44
Speaker 4: she's been missing for three days.
14:45
Speaker 3: She's dead.
14:47
Speaker 1: And they're obviously looking at these sites where he's constructing things,
14:51
Speaker 1: because that's the perfect way to get rid of a body. Right,
14:53
Speaker 1: You're you do construction? Tell me, well, I don't know,
14:55
Speaker 1: because I've never done that. But I'm just saying if
14:57
Speaker 1: I work in construction, I build houses and I'm pouring concrete,
15:01
Speaker 1: it seems like kind of poltergeist, right. They also they
15:05
Speaker 1: also have searched a lake. There's a lake near their
15:08
Speaker 1: family farm called Lake Melody.
15:10
Speaker 4: I think I saw that. That's a massive lake.
15:12
Speaker 2: It's a massive lake.
15:13
Speaker 1: They do a grid pattern, which I wasn't sure how
15:15
Speaker 1: you searched a lake, but that makes sense.
15:17
Speaker 2: They they don't just I don't.
15:19
Speaker 1: Know, I would just get out a boat, willy nilly,
15:21
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what to do.
15:22
Speaker 2: But they clearly have a grid pattern.
15:25
Speaker 1: They had the the cadaver dogs on the boat and
15:28
Speaker 1: the cadaver dog.
15:30
Speaker 2: The cadaver dog's name is Gina.
15:31
Speaker 1: By the way, Gina, Gina would signal in the same
15:37
Speaker 1: area on like two different occasions searching this lake, and
15:41
Speaker 1: then the divers would go down you know where she
15:43
Speaker 1: would signal, and they still couldn't find anything. So the
15:47
Speaker 1: lake's been searched a few times, they still haven't found anything.
15:50
Speaker 1: Now here we get some co conspirators. First of all,
15:55
Speaker 1: we know the brother Nick Hawk knows something, right, I mean,
15:58
Speaker 1: he's involved in some way, I'm sure. And there's also
16:03
Speaker 1: some some evidence that was found in his police cruiser.
16:07
Speaker 1: Apparently there was a blanket that was found in his
16:09
Speaker 1: police cruiser that like might have had some hair of
16:12
Speaker 1: like crystal on it.
16:14
Speaker 4: Or in it or something, and it was similar to hers,
16:18
Speaker 4: but it was not ruled an exact match right that
16:22
Speaker 4: the DNA right.
16:23
Speaker 1: But there was also somehow there was some recording made
16:27
Speaker 1: of Rosemary, who is the mother of Brooks and Nick,
16:31
Speaker 1: having a conversation with Nick. I don't know how they
16:34
Speaker 1: recorded themselves accidentally, but there was some accidental I don't
16:38
Speaker 1: know maybe, I mean I couldn't really find details of it,
16:41
Speaker 1: but somehow there was an accidental recording made of Rosemary
16:44
Speaker 1: asking Nick about the blanket and the in the trunk
16:47
Speaker 1: of the car and being concerned about it, So.
16:51
Speaker 2: I don't don't, I don't know.
16:53
Speaker 1: That's all I can get from these articles is that
16:55
Speaker 1: that's how I felt.
16:56
Speaker 4: I read a little bit about the case too, it
16:57
Speaker 4: it felt like there was a lot of I don't know,
17:00
Speaker 4: it felt messy and unclear on a lot of things.
17:03
Speaker 4: Like you just said, it's like, oh, there's a hair
17:06
Speaker 4: and it's kind of the same but not an exact match.
17:08
Speaker 3: Oh there's a blanket.
17:10
Speaker 4: Oh, then the police officer says not to answer questions,
17:13
Speaker 4: but he didn't reveal anything himself, Like.
17:15
Speaker 1: It's just, yeah, frustrating, it is frustrating. I think it's
17:19
Speaker 1: very clear. The facts of the case are very clear
17:21
Speaker 1: up until the point where I believe the FBI starts investigating,
17:24
Speaker 1: and I think they were very tight lipped on the evidence,
17:27
Speaker 1: and that's why it's difficult to decipher what it is
17:30
Speaker 1: that they found.
17:32
Speaker 2: But they did.
17:34
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, they conduct another round of searches,
17:37
Speaker 1: reportedly finding new evidence tied to Roger's disappearance. And then
17:40
Speaker 1: this is also when they found evidence of co conspirators
17:43
Speaker 1: being involved with Brooks' HOWK and the disappearance.
17:46
Speaker 4: And here's another question, how did they connect. How did
17:49
Speaker 4: they find these co conspirators. I couldn't see that either.
17:52
Speaker 1: Well, from what I understand, and it's not very clear,
17:55
Speaker 1: but there someone testified or must have told the FBI
17:59
Speaker 1: when they were that they overheard a conversation of Joseph
18:03
Speaker 1: Lawson and like the dad, So Joseph has a son, Steve.
18:06
Speaker 1: The dad is Steve Lawson. I believe Steve Lawson works
18:09
Speaker 1: with Brooks.
18:10
Speaker 4: How he gets work from the realtor or the realty
18:14
Speaker 4: side of the company, of the family business. And you know,
18:18
Speaker 4: the theory is maybe he was going to support you know,
18:22
Speaker 4: he wanted to have close ties with Brooks in order
18:23
Speaker 4: to get more business. So he might have you know,
18:27
Speaker 4: helped him a serpent that way.
18:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, allegedly or I think it comes up in
18:31
Speaker 1: trial that there was someone overheard a conversation between Rosemary,
18:34
Speaker 1: who again is the mother of Nick, and Brooks how
18:37
Speaker 1: asking I believe it was Steve if he knew anyone
18:40
Speaker 1: that could get rid of Crystal.
18:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he wanted Crystal gone.
18:44
Speaker 1: I wanted Crystal gone something like that, some conversation like that.
18:47
Speaker 3: I didn't say dead or just gone gone.
18:50
Speaker 5: Ye.
18:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I believe he said something to the
18:52
Speaker 1: effect of, well you can get rid of anyone with
18:54
Speaker 1: a right amount of money or.
18:56
Speaker 2: Something like that.
18:56
Speaker 1: And apparently there was a fifty thousand dollars pay or something.
19:00
Speaker 3: Made money exchanged.
19:02
Speaker 1: I read fifty thousand. I don't know what the evidence
19:04
Speaker 1: was to prove it was fifteen thousand, but there was
19:06
Speaker 1: something like that.
19:07
Speaker 3: Wire.
19:08
Speaker 1: So Joseph Lawson is the son of Steve Lawson, and
19:12
Speaker 1: I believe Joseph Lawson was involved because he was the
19:14
Speaker 1: one that drove the car, her car that was left
19:18
Speaker 1: along the highway and left the car there. So Joseph
19:23
Speaker 1: Lawson is indicted for conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy
19:27
Speaker 1: tampering with physical evidence. It is not Lawson's first run
19:30
Speaker 1: in with the law. He had multiple criminal charges prior
19:32
Speaker 1: to this, including fourth degree assault, first degree strangulation, domestic
19:36
Speaker 1: violin summons, and persistent felony offender.
19:40
Speaker 2: The court.
19:41
Speaker 1: The court records alleged Joseph Lawson was hired by Brooks
19:44
Speaker 1: how to kill Crystal for fifty thousand. So Joseph Lawson
19:47
Speaker 1: is the son and then the dad is Steve. But
19:51
Speaker 1: Joseph is the one that drove the car.
19:53
Speaker 4: I believe he moved the car to Mislead investigations, and
19:59
Speaker 4: I think he went back with the dad or something,
20:01
Speaker 4: because then they wanted to remove like a bat and
20:04
Speaker 4: then the car seat they had or they tried to
20:06
Speaker 4: fix the car seat because you know he's probably taller
20:08
Speaker 4: they can, right, So that that's enough where it's like, Okay,
20:12
Speaker 4: you got your hands involved in this disappearance. She's presumed dead,
20:15
Speaker 4: so now you're a conspirator in the murder.
20:17
Speaker 3: Right.
20:18
Speaker 1: So in September of twenty twenty three, Brooks Howck is
20:20
Speaker 1: arrested and charged with murder and tampering with physical evidence
20:23
Speaker 1: in the death of Crystal Rogers. His bond is set
20:25
Speaker 1: at ten million. Court records alleged that how planned her
20:29
Speaker 1: death and disposed of her remains. Steve Lawson, the father
20:32
Speaker 1: of Joseph Lawson and former employee to Brooks Howeck, has
20:35
Speaker 1: charged with conspiracy to commit murder. That makes three people
20:38
Speaker 1: facing charges in her disappearance. So in November of twenty
20:42
Speaker 1: twenty four, we're getting into almost present day here. So
20:45
Speaker 1: this case started back in twenty fifteen. Just a reminder,
20:49
Speaker 1: the judge approves two separate trials in this case. The
20:51
Speaker 1: judge also moves the case out of that county and moves.
20:54
Speaker 3: It to the Challenge.
20:55
Speaker 1: The trials are for who, so the two separate, separate
20:58
Speaker 1: trials are Steve Lawson will be tried separately from his son,
21:01
Speaker 1: but Joseph and Brooks Holck are tried together. So then
21:05
Speaker 1: on May thirtieth, the twenty twenty five, this is after
21:08
Speaker 1: Steve Lawson's trial. He was found guilty on both counts
21:11
Speaker 1: conspiracy to murder and tampering with physical evidence. So there
21:15
Speaker 1: was some damning evidence presented during trial against Steve Lawson.
21:19
Speaker 1: They had recorded jail calls and statements. Prosecutors played recorded
21:23
Speaker 1: calls Lawson made from custody and used them to show
21:26
Speaker 1: consciousness of guilt and incriminating admissions about moving vehicles and
21:29
Speaker 1: helping conceal evidence. The recordings were highlighted during the closing.
21:33
Speaker 2: Of his trial.
21:34
Speaker 1: Witness testimony places Lawson in a role moving Rogers car.
21:39
Speaker 1: Family and other witnesses testified that Lawson picked up his
21:42
Speaker 1: son Joseph and helped him move Crystal Rodgers' vehicle on
21:44
Speaker 1: or around July third. The prosecution argued that that conduct
21:48
Speaker 1: was part of the conspiracy and the tampering with evidence
21:51
Speaker 1: then in July eighth to twenty twenty five, brooks Howck
21:54
Speaker 1: is found guilty. He goes on trial for his own
21:56
Speaker 1: murder or his own you know, his own murder, his
21:59
Speaker 1: own self murder charges. Okay, So brooks Howse is found
22:04
Speaker 1: guilty of murder and they called it principal or accomplice
22:08
Speaker 1: because they could never definitively prove who. We just know
22:13
Speaker 1: that she's dead and these three people are involved, but
22:15
Speaker 1: we don't know who actually pulled.
22:17
Speaker 2: The trigger or why.
22:18
Speaker 3: I didn't like this case very much. It was very
22:20
Speaker 3: difficult to like.
22:22
Speaker 2: Distinguish who did what, whose role was what. Yeah, so
22:25
Speaker 2: brooks House.
22:26
Speaker 4: It's more of a well, we know you guys did
22:28
Speaker 4: something right, So he's gone.
22:30
Speaker 1: So you're all in trouble, but we don't really know
22:32
Speaker 1: how to divvy up who did what.
22:35
Speaker 4: So we'll just fire the police officer. Yeah, put all
22:39
Speaker 4: of you in jail, and then we'll try you guys.
22:41
Speaker 1: Brooks Howck has found guilty of murder, principal or accomplice,
22:44
Speaker 1: and tampering with physical evidence. He is sentenced to life
22:47
Speaker 1: in prison. Joseph Lawson is found guilty of conspiracy to
22:51
Speaker 1: commit murder and tampering with evidence, and he is sentenced
22:53
Speaker 1: to twenty five years in prison. So let's just talk
22:56
Speaker 1: about a little bit. Let's go through this. The most
22:58
Speaker 1: damning evidence presented against brooks How. This is what I
23:01
Speaker 1: was trying to understand because I didn't follow the trial.
23:04
Speaker 1: This case wasn't on my radar, and this is just.
23:06
Speaker 4: Very media friendly, right, Well, I think in that town
23:09
Speaker 4: was sure everyone in the town knew.
23:11
Speaker 3: That's yeah.
23:11
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know, I don't know why.
23:14
Speaker 1: It was just I didn't really know much about it.
23:17
Speaker 4: Probably not until things surface, didn't it what caused it
23:20
Speaker 4: to surface more recently.
23:22
Speaker 1: Because he just went on trial this summer twenty five.
23:26
Speaker 1: Just some of the evidence against brooks How was his
23:29
Speaker 1: own written police statement. There were a lot of inconsistencies
23:32
Speaker 1: in it and contradictions. You know, he claimed that she
23:36
Speaker 1: was playing on her phone the night he saw her
23:38
Speaker 1: the last time, up until midnight, but then forensics showed
23:40
Speaker 1: that her phone was shut off at you know, nine
23:42
Speaker 1: twenty seven.
23:43
Speaker 3: Again, didn't they ping his cell phone?
23:45
Speaker 4: Their cell phones? Yeah, approximate area. So it was very
23:48
Speaker 4: suspicious behavior, exactly. It was all very circumstantial.
23:51
Speaker 2: It all was there's no smoking gun in.
23:53
Speaker 4: This case, a life sentence on a circumstantial case.
23:56
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So we're super excited to have our guest today.
24:07
Speaker 1: Andrea Canning from Dateline. Andrea Canning is a correspondent for
24:11
Speaker 1: Dateline NBC, the longest running primetime show in NBC history.
24:15
Speaker 1: Since joining the news magazine in twenty twelve, she has
24:18
Speaker 1: delivered breaking news and in depth investigative reports. In addition
24:22
Speaker 1: to hosting the podcast Dateline True Crime Weekly, Andrea also
24:27
Speaker 1: hosts the syndicated Dateline series and contributes to several Dateline
24:31
Speaker 1: NBC podcasts, including Talking, Dateline, After the Verdict and Missing
24:35
Speaker 1: in America. Her contributions to journalism have earned her three
24:39
Speaker 1: News and Documentary Emmy nominations. Andrea is married to a
24:43
Speaker 1: US Marine Corps reservist and F eighteen fighter pilot, Lieutenant
24:47
Speaker 1: Colonel Tony Bancroft, and together they have five daughters and
24:50
Speaker 1: a son.
24:52
Speaker 2: Hi, Andrea, Hey, Hi, I'm so excited to have you
24:56
Speaker 2: on today. Thank you so much.
24:58
Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking about and I feel like
25:01
Speaker 1: we've been like dming and texting for years and years,
25:04
Speaker 1: but I don't think we've ever actually met in person,
25:06
Speaker 1: have we?
25:07
Speaker 2: No we haven't.
25:08
Speaker 5: So it all started with Kelly like way back in
25:11
Speaker 5: the day.
25:12
Speaker 2: Oh that's right.
25:13
Speaker 1: Yeah.
25:13
Speaker 5: Then she's the one who was like, yeah, I don't
25:15
Speaker 5: even know.
25:16
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us today. First of all, I
25:19
Speaker 2: love Dateline. I've been watching Dateline for years.
25:20
Speaker 1: I've always been such a true crime junkie, and that's
25:23
Speaker 1: why I've always just been Were you always a true
25:26
Speaker 1: crime fan or was that something that came later?
25:28
Speaker 5: Yeah? No, No, I was like I I did this
25:32
Speaker 5: appearance on the Kelly Clarkson Show like last year, and
25:37
Speaker 5: they were like, did you They asked, like a similar question. Yeah,
25:40
Speaker 5: you know. Yeah, actually to the point where we my
25:44
Speaker 5: dad found this book that I had written at eight
25:46
Speaker 5: years old. Okay, it was called Murder Mystery and there
25:50
Speaker 5: was a knife dripping blood on the Oh my gosh.
25:53
Speaker 4: Well I'm glad you went in the direction of journalism.
25:58
Speaker 1: In the other direction, right right, right, Well all right,
26:01
Speaker 1: so we just did right before you came on. We
26:04
Speaker 1: just kind of went through and did a brief synopsis
26:05
Speaker 1: of the Crystal Rogers case. And I know that I'm
26:09
Speaker 1: sure you know way more than we do.
26:11
Speaker 2: Is there anything?
26:12
Speaker 1: We just kind of got up to the point where
26:14
Speaker 1: Brooks went to trial, he was convicted, he's in prison
26:17
Speaker 1: for life. I would and what can you tell me
26:21
Speaker 1: could obviously you've been following this case.
26:23
Speaker 2: You know a lot about it.
26:24
Speaker 1: I believe you were supposed to were you supposed to
26:26
Speaker 1: interview him recently?
26:28
Speaker 5: Uh? Yeah, So he wants to talk, is what I
26:32
Speaker 5: told our team. Okay, but his attorney was telling him
26:35
Speaker 5: not to and so uh huh he backed out.
26:39
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, what did you follow the trial closely
26:43
Speaker 1: for Brooks?
26:44
Speaker 5: Yes, I've yes, I've been very immersed in this case.
26:47
Speaker 5: And yeah, have an upcoming episode coming on very soon.
26:51
Speaker 1: So Andrea, let me ask you, first of all, do
26:54
Speaker 1: you think, just in your professional opinion, because you've been
26:57
Speaker 1: involved in true crime for so long, do you think
26:59
Speaker 1: that we will ever be able to know what happened
27:01
Speaker 1: to Crystal and where her body's located?
27:04
Speaker 5: I mean that is you know the million dollar question,
27:06
Speaker 5: right what happened to Crystal? The family? You know obviously
27:12
Speaker 5: Brooks how you know they believe that he is responsible
27:15
Speaker 5: for this. They also point the finger at members of
27:18
Speaker 5: his family. Then there's the two other men that were
27:23
Speaker 5: you know, Joseph and Steve Laws, and you know they
27:26
Speaker 5: they believe one they know where Crystal's remains are, you know,
27:31
Speaker 5: or her body, and they are just not saying. And
27:36
Speaker 5: you know, that was the one thing you know during
27:38
Speaker 5: sentencing was like tell me where my daughter is, and
27:42
Speaker 5: they just you know, crickets, like they just will not say.
27:46
Speaker 5: And I mean there were you know, when we interviewed investigators,
27:49
Speaker 5: there were mentions of like, oh, you know, I fetter
27:53
Speaker 5: to the hogs. You know, things like that, like never substantiated.
27:57
Speaker 5: There was also a fire that was on the prop
28:00
Speaker 5: that night where they took her car, and but they
28:04
Speaker 5: stifted through the the you know, the ash and everything,
28:06
Speaker 5: and they found no remains of Crystal. So you know,
28:10
Speaker 5: with all that, all the properties and everything, I mean,
28:13
Speaker 5: she could be anywhere, like you know, it's it's really
28:16
Speaker 5: hard to say. Do I think we'll find out? I mean,
28:20
Speaker 5: that is up that is for them to do the
28:22
Speaker 5: right thing and to tell this family where she is.
28:26
Speaker 2: You know, I'm surprised.
28:28
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that Brooks didn't break and say, you
28:30
Speaker 1: know where she is, because obviously he's maintaining his innocence, correct,
28:33
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's yes, right, But the the other
28:36
Speaker 1: two Joseph and Steve. I'm surprised they didn't use that
28:40
Speaker 1: as a bargaining chip at some point, you know, during
28:44
Speaker 1: what once they were indicted, And I'm surprised they didn't
28:47
Speaker 1: sit across from prosecutors and say, you know, make some
28:50
Speaker 1: kind of plea deal about where the body is to them.
28:54
Speaker 5: I mean that you know that that I don't. I'm
28:55
Speaker 5: not sure if that was offered to them. I would
28:58
Speaker 5: have to pull up the transcript because they did a
29:00
Speaker 5: really lengthy interview with the prosecutors. But she, I mean,
29:03
Speaker 5: and it's a great question, like, you know, why why
29:07
Speaker 5: not you know, why not get a great deal? Let's
29:10
Speaker 5: say here, I can offer up where she is, you know,
29:13
Speaker 5: and we see that all the time in these cases,
29:15
Speaker 5: right the first person to squeal, you know, you know
29:18
Speaker 5: gets the deal, right, right, you know, in this case
29:23
Speaker 5: they didn't.
29:24
Speaker 1: So what is your opinion on Tommy ballor do you
29:29
Speaker 1: do you believe it's all connected?
29:32
Speaker 5: So I'm going to just speak from common sense, right,
29:36
Speaker 5: you know, I don't know. The police have not confirmed
29:39
Speaker 5: to us that they even if they think they're connected.
29:42
Speaker 5: They're very almost cryptic about it in the way that
29:45
Speaker 5: they talk about it. But if you were to talk
29:48
Speaker 5: to a lot of people in the community and use
29:50
Speaker 5: common sense. And if you talk to the family, clearly
29:54
Speaker 5: one hundred percent they believe they're connected. I mean, Tommy is,
29:58
Speaker 5: you know, getting closer and closer to various things. He's
30:02
Speaker 5: you know, devoted his life at this point to solving
30:05
Speaker 5: his daughter's murder, to finding her. And then you know,
30:09
Speaker 5: and there's a there's a man that's brought up in
30:11
Speaker 5: all of this, and apparently Tommy was really close to
30:14
Speaker 5: this other man that has not been charged when with anything.
30:17
Speaker 5: I'm not going to say his name, but he somehow
30:20
Speaker 5: fits into this puzzle. Tommy was getting closer to this man, right,
30:24
Speaker 5: and then he turns up dead. And so again I
30:29
Speaker 5: go back to common sense. He's investigating his daughter's murder,
30:33
Speaker 5: he's getting close, closer and closer to all these things, right,
30:36
Speaker 5: and then he's dead. So the community, I would say
30:39
Speaker 5: that the majority of the community believes that they're connected.
30:42
Speaker 5: The mom Sherry, you know, really believes they're connected. And
30:47
Speaker 5: then you have to look at the the murder of
30:50
Speaker 5: Jason Ellis. So I'm not sure how a ware you
30:52
Speaker 5: guys are. Did you talk about him at all?
30:54
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we did talk about him a little bit,
30:56
Speaker 1: and I was saying, I was just trying to connect
30:58
Speaker 1: thoughts because, like you said, how everything's very crypto. I
31:00
Speaker 1: feel the same way because I've done as much research
31:02
Speaker 1: on this case as possible, and it's very It's very
31:05
Speaker 1: easy for me to find out everything that happened up
31:07
Speaker 1: until the FBI kind of took over, and then it's
31:10
Speaker 1: very difficult to understand how they put all the pieces
31:12
Speaker 1: together to kind of bring the co conspirators in andto
31:15
Speaker 1: and how Jason Ellos kind of relates to everything.
31:18
Speaker 5: But the unindicted co conspirators.
31:20
Speaker 1: Unindicted co conspirators exactly. I was going to ask you
31:23
Speaker 1: about that too, but you know, it's not clear to
31:27
Speaker 1: me how Jason is involved other than I'm just trying
31:30
Speaker 1: to piece things together. But he was a police officer
31:33
Speaker 1: along with Nick how correct, at the same police department. Yes,
31:37
Speaker 1: my interpretation, just from trying to use basic common sense,
31:40
Speaker 1: is that maybe he knew something or witnessed something or
31:43
Speaker 1: saw something and then.
31:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, that is the running theory if these are connected.
31:50
Speaker 5: And by the way, we will have an interview on
31:53
Speaker 5: Friday's dateline with the FBI. Okay, so there's they're speaking out. Okay,
31:58
Speaker 5: so yeah, I mean the Jason ellis Uh, when you
32:02
Speaker 5: ask everyone, no one seems to have this clear link
32:07
Speaker 5: like oh they got in this big fight, or he
32:09
Speaker 5: was investigating Nick Howk for drugs or you know, there's
32:13
Speaker 5: no there's nothing like that that you can say, Oh, well,
32:16
Speaker 5: there's the motive, you know what I mean. The motive
32:20
Speaker 5: they believe the family believes is that Nick there may
32:26
Speaker 5: have been some issue like and that that they believe
32:29
Speaker 5: Nick is not only involved in you know, this this
32:33
Speaker 5: murder of Jason, but also Tommy. And that is the
32:37
Speaker 5: family's feeling, right, that is what they are saying. That
32:42
Speaker 5: is what they told us in their interviews. You know
32:46
Speaker 5: that that Nick is somehow involved in this, and you
32:49
Speaker 5: know they did. They appointed the Attorney General appointed a
32:52
Speaker 5: special prosecutor, Shane Young, who was asked to look into
32:57
Speaker 5: the murders of Tommy, Chris Still and Jason. But when
33:02
Speaker 5: you interview him and you ask him, well, that seems
33:05
Speaker 5: logical that you know they're all connected, he will not
33:08
Speaker 5: say that. He will not. He just says, I have
33:11
Speaker 5: just been appointed to look at these things. I'm not
33:13
Speaker 5: saying that they're connected.
33:15
Speaker 1: We don't know, right, you know, I think just for me,
33:18
Speaker 1: just using brain cells and common sense, it feels to
33:22
Speaker 1: me that there is some kind of connection, you know,
33:25
Speaker 1: But we'll have to wait and see.
33:26
Speaker 2: And what what when you interview.
33:27
Speaker 1: The FBI, do you think you're gonna I mean, you
33:30
Speaker 1: think that you're going to learn a lot of new
33:31
Speaker 1: things that haven't been out there before.
33:34
Speaker 2: Is that your hope?
33:35
Speaker 5: Yeah? So then the FBI has been interviewed and they
33:38
Speaker 5: are currently in the program that has been being finished
33:43
Speaker 5: as we speak. The team is very feverishly working to
33:47
Speaker 5: get the episode finished and that'll be a you know,
33:51
Speaker 5: something that you'll find out on on Dateline.
33:53
Speaker 1: Well, I'm super excited to watch that episode because I
33:56
Speaker 1: feel like I have so many questions, so I'm hoping
33:58
Speaker 1: that I get a lot more answers when that episode
34:02
Speaker 1: comes up. Do you mind if I switch gears and
34:04
Speaker 1: just ask you about the Karen Reid trial?
34:07
Speaker 2: Did you see?
34:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's all the new I guess evidence that's coming
34:10
Speaker 1: forward from Proctor's phone that I guess they were able
34:13
Speaker 1: to tap into as iCloud, not just the phone.
34:15
Speaker 5: You know. I was so immersed in that story as well.
34:20
Speaker 5: That was a wild story and being there I was
34:23
Speaker 5: there in the courthouse when the pot oh you actually
34:27
Speaker 5: sitting in the like in this room in the courthouse,
34:30
Speaker 5: just kind of like on hold, and then where we
34:33
Speaker 5: got word, you know, and then there's a predict and
34:37
Speaker 5: then the cheers from outside. Wow, it was so loud.
34:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, what was What was your takeaway?
34:46
Speaker 1: Because I'll tell you we did a podcast on the
34:47
Speaker 1: Karen Reid uh just Karen Reid, and we did a
34:51
Speaker 1: very in the very beginning. Shane didn't know anything about
34:53
Speaker 1: Karen Reid at all. So when I just laid out
34:55
Speaker 1: the facts of the case, like a very cursory type
34:58
Speaker 1: of like this happened, he was immediately.
35:01
Speaker 2: He was like, she did it, She's guilty. She ran
35:04
Speaker 2: over him.
35:04
Speaker 1: I mean, that was his takeaway. And I was like, okay, wait,
35:07
Speaker 1: now we're going to take a deeper dive into this
35:09
Speaker 1: whole conspiracy and everything that happened that night. So then
35:12
Speaker 1: we did another episode. We took a deep dive, and
35:15
Speaker 1: then he completely flipped and was like, you know, there's
35:18
Speaker 1: no way that you can convict this woman. What was
35:20
Speaker 1: your takeaway from all that? I mean, from my perspective,
35:23
Speaker 1: I just thought there is so much reasonable doubt going
35:26
Speaker 1: on that night that if I was sitting on that jury,
35:28
Speaker 1: I could never convict this woman. I understand that the
35:31
Speaker 1: logical takeaway is, Okay, she drank too much, he got
35:34
Speaker 1: out of the car, they had to fight whatever, she
35:36
Speaker 1: backed into him. But when you hear all the other
35:39
Speaker 1: evidence of what happened that night, it's just convict her.
35:44
Speaker 4: No, they retried her.
35:47
Speaker 5: It's one of those things where, like, from like a
35:50
Speaker 5: common sense thing, you know, you're like, like you said,
35:53
Speaker 5: it sounds like, yeah, she did it right when you
35:55
Speaker 5: just lay it out or whatever, But then when you
35:58
Speaker 5: start going down that rap hole of you know, all
36:02
Speaker 5: the stuff that came out, you're like, hmm, maybe she didn't,
36:06
Speaker 5: Maybe she didn't. You go back and forth, maybe she didn't,
36:09
Speaker 5: maybe she didn't, maybe she did. But at the you know,
36:12
Speaker 5: at the very least, is that reasonable doubt which was
36:16
Speaker 5: opened up, you know, from these text messages that were
36:21
Speaker 5: you know, sent about her, and and like just I mean, honestly,
36:25
Speaker 5: we could you guys know, we could sit here forever
36:27
Speaker 5: and talk about this, but there's so many, so many
36:30
Speaker 5: things that like didn't add up. So it's kind of
36:33
Speaker 5: one of those ones where, like you you understand why
36:36
Speaker 5: the family feels the way they do. Then she did it,
36:39
Speaker 5: and then you understand why all these supporters think she
36:42
Speaker 5: didn't do it. Like it's that's what made it such
36:44
Speaker 5: a fascinating case. And I interviewed Michael Proctor, okay, and
36:48
Speaker 5: he was really upset about how did my you know,
36:51
Speaker 5: personal text messages? How did they get them? And you know,
36:55
Speaker 5: and that's something to remember for everybody, like just because
36:59
Speaker 5: you're on a personal phone doesn't mean you know, Mark's
37:02
Speaker 5: not want to tap into that, you know, And he
37:04
Speaker 5: was that that was the one thing that bothered him.
37:07
Speaker 5: But he definitely was painted as the villain in all
37:10
Speaker 5: of this. And you know, he acknowledges I never should
37:13
Speaker 5: have said those things, and you know, you know, it
37:17
Speaker 5: was like and he's, you know, he's trying to get
37:19
Speaker 5: his job back. But at this point I.
37:22
Speaker 1: Think he I think I think I read that he
37:24
Speaker 1: he's not trying to do that anymore, like something like.
37:27
Speaker 2: He withdrew whatever.
37:29
Speaker 5: Oh did Okay?
37:30
Speaker 2: I believe so yeah, I mean I wouldn't.
37:32
Speaker 5: Be surprised because I haven't checked in in a while
37:34
Speaker 5: to see what's going on with you guys. Are I
37:36
Speaker 5: feel like you guys are more up to date on.
37:38
Speaker 1: This, well, I mean I try to be, and I'll
37:41
Speaker 1: tell you just from all the people that listen, I
37:43
Speaker 1: get so many fans that send me updated information.
37:46
Speaker 2: Which is nice.
37:47
Speaker 1: So the reason I knew about the update with Michael
37:50
Speaker 1: Proctor and Karen Reid was because a fan sent me
37:53
Speaker 1: a video clip of talking about You'll have to reinterview
37:57
Speaker 1: him and ask him how he feels about them, able
38:00
Speaker 1: to tap into his iCloud now his right, what is
38:04
Speaker 1: it called?
38:04
Speaker 2: Chane? Is that the cloud?
38:06
Speaker 3: The cloud?
38:07
Speaker 2: The cloud? Right? Yeah, so all right, so yeah, no,
38:11
Speaker 2: he was.
38:12
Speaker 5: Not none too happy about that obviously because that really
38:15
Speaker 5: upended his life. But then you know, he shouldn't have
38:18
Speaker 5: written those things, like you know, those things were crude
38:22
Speaker 5: and awful and you know, whether whatever his whether he
38:26
Speaker 5: had a role in this or he didn't have a
38:28
Speaker 5: role in this in a bad way like that just
38:30
Speaker 5: is such a bad look. You know that that he
38:33
Speaker 5: he texted those things, and that really opened the door
38:36
Speaker 5: to what you know, the John O'Keefe's family calls the
38:41
Speaker 5: Karen Reid Show. They feel like this was a production
38:46
Speaker 5: you know by Alan Jackson. You know that he created
38:51
Speaker 5: this whole thing, and but he had a lot to
38:54
Speaker 5: work with.
38:55
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you can make that, you can say that,
38:57
Speaker 1: but he he was able to put teeth into because
39:00
Speaker 1: there was so many things that lent to this possible
39:04
Speaker 1: conspiracy going on. Did you ever did you ever have
39:07
Speaker 1: the opportunity to interview Alan Jackson?
39:10
Speaker 5: Yes? I did. Yeah, I interviewed him in his office
39:14
Speaker 5: in downtown LA and we went down to the garage
39:16
Speaker 5: afterwards and we did like a little show and tell
39:19
Speaker 5: with an suv to talk about you know, the light
39:24
Speaker 5: that the tail light right. Yeah, he really went over
39:29
Speaker 5: like why this was impossible? You know that she did this?
39:33
Speaker 5: And so that was a little show and tell that
39:35
Speaker 5: we had in the episode.
39:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you I was very impressed by Alan Jackson.
39:39
Speaker 1: I would say that would be because someone asked me
39:41
Speaker 1: the other day who would be your dream guest to
39:43
Speaker 1: come on your podcast? And I said, I said Alan Jackson.
39:46
Speaker 1: But I was talking to Jen Pedronte when I told
39:48
Speaker 1: her that, and she said, why would you have a
39:50
Speaker 1: country singer on your podcast?
39:53
Speaker 3: And I was like, Jed, is there a country singer
39:56
Speaker 3: named Alan Jackson?
39:57
Speaker 5: Yes?
39:57
Speaker 1: There is. I did not want Alan Jackson the country singer,
40:00
Speaker 1: even though that would be that would be amazing too.
40:02
Speaker 2: I would make it work somehow.
40:03
Speaker 5: But it's so funny because when I was trying to
40:06
Speaker 5: pull up in my brain you know Alan Jackson's name,
40:09
Speaker 5: because it's just been a minute, Well, I went, wait,
40:12
Speaker 5: country singer.
40:12
Speaker 2: Country singer, Alan Jackson.
40:15
Speaker 3: Exactly.
40:16
Speaker 5: I never forget his name because of that.
40:19
Speaker 2: Exactly. Did you follow Delphi the Delphie murders.
40:31
Speaker 5: I was on that case as well.
40:32
Speaker 1: Okay, I will tell you this is just my own
40:35
Speaker 1: personal opinion. I think they have the wrong man.
40:38
Speaker 2: Really, I do the man on the bridge, right, the
40:40
Speaker 2: man on the bridge.
40:41
Speaker 5: The bridge, I don't like chilling story, it really is.
40:46
Speaker 1: I I don't know, it's just something. I just don't
40:49
Speaker 1: think it's Richard Allen his.
40:50
Speaker 3: Interrogation that you felt he was pretty genuine.
40:53
Speaker 1: Right, I did, And I just felt how he came
40:55
Speaker 1: up on the radar with the tip that was misplaced,
40:58
Speaker 1: and I felt like they were trying and make him
41:00
Speaker 1: fit into it. And then you know, honestly, the whole
41:04
Speaker 1: Odin theory out there I thought was ridiculous until I
41:07
Speaker 1: really took a deep dive into it, and then I
41:10
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, maybe that's not that crazy, and we
41:13
Speaker 1: don't know.
41:14
Speaker 5: I went out there with to the woods with the
41:16
Speaker 5: defense attorneys and we did a whole thing on the odinism. Yeah,
41:21
Speaker 5: and how the sticks were placed and it was on
41:24
Speaker 5: the tree and everything. You know. Of course, the prosecution
41:27
Speaker 5: says that's a bunch of you know, right Mularney, mallarkey.
41:31
Speaker 5: But you know, the defense attorneys are really feel strongly
41:35
Speaker 5: that there's something to that. That's another one that you
41:39
Speaker 5: know that there is that like there's some stuff to
41:43
Speaker 5: work with, you know, was it Richard Allen? I mean,
41:46
Speaker 5: the biggest mistake if you're on the on the team prosecution,
41:50
Speaker 5: the biggest mistake that was made was was the the
41:55
Speaker 5: police officer. But he's like a park police, like the
41:58
Speaker 5: conservation confer that he interviewed Richard and then didn't like
42:06
Speaker 5: really think much of it. And he rich Allen like
42:09
Speaker 5: kind of fits some of the description of Bridgeman and
42:11
Speaker 5: he's out there. He says that he's out there that morning.
42:15
Speaker 5: I mean, for me, that was not They were in
42:19
Speaker 5: the interviews, they were protecting him a little bit. But
42:21
Speaker 5: I'm like, wow, that is like, for just personal opinion,
42:24
Speaker 5: not the best detective work. There, like, you know, at
42:26
Speaker 5: least bring him in and really drill down on him,
42:29
Speaker 5: you know, instead of just being like, oh okay and
42:31
Speaker 5: putting the tip in a you know, it wasn't even
42:33
Speaker 5: a tip. He interviewed him, the conservation officer. And then
42:37
Speaker 5: it was a lady who worked for the Sheriff's department,
42:40
Speaker 5: a volunteer who was constantly just giving her time and
42:45
Speaker 5: going through all the paperwork, and they were moving offices
42:49
Speaker 5: the paperwork, and she found it in there. She was like, Hey,
42:52
Speaker 5: what about this guy? And they were like, oh my gosh,
42:55
Speaker 5: how did we miss this? You know, So that's like
42:58
Speaker 5: how that all came about that.
43:00
Speaker 2: I know, I just I don't know.
43:01
Speaker 1: When I see his his interviews, I don't know, he
43:04
Speaker 1: just you know, like when I when I think about
43:06
Speaker 1: when I watched the interview of when they interviewed bricks Halk,
43:10
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's to me. I I watch that
43:12
Speaker 1: and I think this guy, like he gets the phone call, right,
43:15
Speaker 1: he gets the phone call from his brother. That looks
43:17
Speaker 1: completely staged. I mean, he can't remember things.
43:21
Speaker 2: I don't know.
43:22
Speaker 1: Richard Allen just had a completely different vibe to me.
43:24
Speaker 1: And that's just a personal takeaway that I really just
43:26
Speaker 1: got the feeling that like, he I don't know, And
43:29
Speaker 1: then I just can't picture that man doing all that
43:31
Speaker 1: in the short amount of time and across the river
43:33
Speaker 1: and the whole thing and then back in the car.
43:35
Speaker 2: Anyway, I could be completely wrong, But.
43:37
Speaker 5: When you're when you're standing there, like by that bridge, yeah,
43:42
Speaker 5: there's like now like they built something there, so you
43:44
Speaker 5: can't because all the kids used to go out there
43:46
Speaker 5: and they do prom pictures or like you know, they
43:49
Speaker 5: would take it's when you stand there and you look
43:53
Speaker 5: at that bridge that those girls went on and then
43:55
Speaker 5: this man like following them, it is terrifying. It is
43:57
Speaker 5: so high up and there's no like guardrails or anything,
44:02
Speaker 5: and there's there's like broken ties and spaces in between.
44:06
Speaker 5: And I was just like, oh, like the thought of
44:09
Speaker 5: those girls, it was so haunting and so awful. And
44:13
Speaker 5: imagine that you're being hunted by this man in that
44:16
Speaker 5: moment and you're on this thing that's so high up, yeah,
44:20
Speaker 5: you know, and to get to the other side and
44:22
Speaker 5: here he comes, and then you have the wherewithal to
44:24
Speaker 5: hit record on your phone.
44:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
44:26
Speaker 1: And you know what's so interesting is anytime you have
44:29
Speaker 1: actual footage of someone. I feel like it's always when
44:31
Speaker 1: you release it to the public, it's always seems like
44:33
Speaker 1: there's someone that recognizes someone's mannerisms or just yeah, they
44:37
Speaker 1: look at it and they're like, I know, that's that person.
44:39
Speaker 1: And the fact that like no one could really identify
44:42
Speaker 1: exactly who he was or or I don't know.
44:45
Speaker 2: I just I guess because.
44:46
Speaker 3: It's just and it's a small town, right, it's a.
44:49
Speaker 1: Small town, but I guess because he's just it's just
44:51
Speaker 1: so indistinct. I mean, the car, hearts and the I
44:54
Speaker 1: don't know, and the jeans and the thing.
44:57
Speaker 3: It's just not enough for us.
44:59
Speaker 2: This is it's not.
45:02
Speaker 1: Maybe because I work with the Innocent Center so much,
45:04
Speaker 1: so I'm so like, you know, but.
45:07
Speaker 5: And you know, I just wanted to say your work
45:09
Speaker 5: is so great, like all the effort you put into
45:13
Speaker 5: that for those people that you know have had such
45:16
Speaker 5: a bad shake in life. You know that that they're
45:19
Speaker 5: I mean, can you imagine spending even a day in
45:23
Speaker 5: prison for a crime you didn't commit, let alone you know, years.
45:27
Speaker 1: I know, and you know, I've become friendly with a
45:30
Speaker 1: lot of the exonerated persons, and you know, every time
45:33
Speaker 1: I talk to them. The fact that they have such
45:35
Speaker 1: good attitudes and that they don't harbor it's so amazing tasting.
45:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is.
45:42
Speaker 5: And that fundraiser was, you know, such a great cause
45:45
Speaker 5: kind of hijacked by Tamaran.
45:47
Speaker 2: Gretcher's there, yes, and Tamara hijacked my eye.
45:52
Speaker 5: Oh that was like the the the clause came out
45:56
Speaker 5: on Gretchen on that one yelling at Tamras She's walking
45:59
Speaker 5: out of the the bar. I was like, darn, that was.
46:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, Grutcher's Grutcher's it turns a little
46:06
Speaker 1: bit into a more aggressive person when she has Slayd
46:09
Speaker 1: with her. So it's like, you know, I don't I
46:13
Speaker 1: have Shade with Shane with me. I gotta I gotta
46:14
Speaker 1: take it down and Notch, I have to call him down.
46:18
Speaker 5: Shane's bringing me down.
46:24
Speaker 2: You have to behave so yeah.
46:27
Speaker 1: Okay, So let me ask you what would your dream
46:28
Speaker 1: interview interview be? If you could interview anyone that you
46:31
Speaker 1: probably interviewed everyone possible, But is there anyone on your
46:34
Speaker 1: radar that you would love to chat with, dead or alive?
46:39
Speaker 5: You know, I used to want to interview OJ and
46:42
Speaker 5: I wrote him for ten years in prison and he
46:45
Speaker 5: called me right after he got out.
46:47
Speaker 2: Wow.
46:48
Speaker 5: I answered the phone. I was on the way to
46:50
Speaker 5: a shoot and it was an unknown number and I
46:52
Speaker 5: was like hello. He's like, hey, Andrea, it's OJ. And
46:54
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, I was expect let me bowl over. Yeah.
47:00
Speaker 5: He's like he's like, well, you know, thank you for
47:03
Speaker 5: for your support. I'm like, no, no, no, no support.
47:08
Speaker 5: I wrote you letters asking for an interview, right right, right,
47:12
Speaker 5: wasn't you know supporting you?
47:13
Speaker 3: Yeah?
47:14
Speaker 5: And so you know, I had asked him like if
47:16
Speaker 5: you would do an interview, and then I was supposed
47:18
Speaker 5: to go to his very he was staying in Vegas.
47:21
Speaker 5: I was actually out there hosting the Sister Wives reunion.
47:24
Speaker 5: Oh wow, okay, and uh that's our crossover Real Housewives
47:29
Speaker 5: Sister Wives and right, and I was supposed to go
47:33
Speaker 5: out there and then it just it just fell apart.
47:36
Speaker 5: And then I never you.
47:37
Speaker 3: Know, Emily had met OJ once in the past, Oh
47:41
Speaker 3: did you Yeah, Well.
47:42
Speaker 2: You were with me.
47:43
Speaker 1: I know, we were in Vegas and we went to dinner.
47:46
Speaker 1: Where did we go? It wasn't even anywhere on the strip.
47:48
Speaker 1: We were like outside, like.
47:50
Speaker 3: Some sushi restaurant off the side.
47:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, And We just were sitting at a table and
47:54
Speaker 1: then I turned around and O. J. Simpson was right
47:57
Speaker 1: behind me.
47:58
Speaker 4: Well then and then we turned the other way and
47:59
Speaker 4: it was a Hell's Angels, Yeah Angels Yes at another
48:02
Speaker 4: table and.
48:05
Speaker 5: My daughter OJ called me another time and I was
48:09
Speaker 5: in the shower and I never do this, Like my
48:12
Speaker 5: phone rang and my daughter, who was so young at
48:15
Speaker 5: the time, I like, I'm I don't know. She was
48:18
Speaker 5: like ten, eleven, twelve something, and I never do this,
48:21
Speaker 5: but I was like, hey, can you grab the phone?
48:23
Speaker 5: Can you answer the phone?
48:24
Speaker 2: Yeah?
48:25
Speaker 5: She answered it, and she's like hello, and then she's like, Mommy,
48:29
Speaker 5: it's someone named OJ on the phone. And then and
48:33
Speaker 5: then so she she's in class and like fast forward
48:36
Speaker 5: to high school and she's in class and they're talking
48:38
Speaker 5: about O. J. Simpson and she's like, well, I actually
48:40
Speaker 5: talked to him. And the teacher's like what, like, you
48:44
Speaker 5: talked to OJA huh? And she's like, yeah, he called
48:47
Speaker 5: my mom and I answered the phone. And then and
48:51
Speaker 5: then she's like, wait, why was ogre you talking to
48:53
Speaker 5: your mom? And she's like, well, my mom's on dateline
48:55
Speaker 5: and she goes, your mom's on dateline?
48:58
Speaker 2: How did they not know that? How did they not
49:00
Speaker 2: know you were Andrea Canning? How did they not know that?
49:03
Speaker 2: I guess I.
49:04
Speaker 5: Really must not at that point if you haven't, like
49:06
Speaker 5: you know, a bunch of my children in your school,
49:10
Speaker 5: like you must really just not watch Dateline at all?
49:13
Speaker 4: Right, they or your kids are saying something else about you.
49:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what she works at build a
49:21
Speaker 3: bear you know something?
49:22
Speaker 5: Yeah? Right?
49:23
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Well.
49:24
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, do your children did they Are
49:27
Speaker 1: they proud that you're on TV? And like, did they
49:30
Speaker 1: tell people? Because Annabell goes back and forth between my
49:33
Speaker 1: mom's a housewife and then not wanting people to know
49:36
Speaker 1: that I'm a housewife. But she's twelve, she's at that
49:40
Speaker 1: that you know, tweet yeah, where like sometimes it's cool
49:44
Speaker 1: and then other times she's mortified by it.
49:46
Speaker 2: So I think that.
49:48
Speaker 5: They they well, first of all, they don't watch Dateline.
49:51
Speaker 5: Well that's good, which is a couple of them are
49:54
Speaker 5: old enough to watch Dateline. And I'm a little offended
49:57
Speaker 5: at times that they're like they watch these like of
50:00
Speaker 5: are things. Yeah, I watched the Menanda's Brothers documentary. I'm like, really,
50:06
Speaker 5: but you don't watch Dateline? Okay, Right, so yeah, so
50:10
Speaker 5: they're like, whenever they complain if I'm gone on the
50:13
Speaker 5: road too much or whatever, I'm like, well, do you
50:14
Speaker 5: want me to quit my job? You're like, no, don't
50:16
Speaker 5: put your job. So, you know, I think I think
50:19
Speaker 5: overall they like it, and they think it's cool, and
50:22
Speaker 5: they get to you know, go into the city sometimes
50:24
Speaker 5: and go to the Today Show and you'll go on
50:27
Speaker 5: set and see different things. And we shoot interviews here.
50:31
Speaker 5: Sometimes at my house in the basement, we'll do remote.
50:34
Speaker 5: If we're doing like a remote, we'll do it, you know, downstairs.
50:37
Speaker 5: So they they've been around the world and like when
50:39
Speaker 5: I say around the world, I mean the TV world world, right,
50:43
Speaker 5: And you know, and I used to work for Good
50:44
Speaker 5: Morning America for years, so they would they would always
50:48
Speaker 5: come on the show. They'd be little guests for Halloween segments,
50:51
Speaker 5: or they can here and makeup done in the makeup room.
50:53
Speaker 5: And but I think it's been interesting for them, you know,
50:57
Speaker 5: over the years to see how it all works.
50:59
Speaker 1: And yeah, okay, one last question, the Ellen Greenberg case.
51:04
Speaker 5: Oh oh, is that the sus the notice suicide?
51:08
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, do you have an opinion.
51:10
Speaker 5: On that shocking twist wasn't it like that?
51:15
Speaker 2: Yeah?
51:16
Speaker 5: Again, right, I I don't know like enough about it.
51:22
Speaker 5: Only what I would say is common sense is how
51:24
Speaker 5: do you stab yourself in like that many times in
51:27
Speaker 5: behind your head, right, isn't it?
51:30
Speaker 2: Yeah?
51:30
Speaker 1: I believe there were I don't remember exactly how many,
51:33
Speaker 1: but there were multiple sabs on her chest, one very
51:36
Speaker 1: deep sab that would ended up being the fatal wound,
51:38
Speaker 1: and then some fellow ones in the back and then
51:41
Speaker 1: maybe I mean, yeah, how does that happen?
51:44
Speaker 5: I'm not I'm not, you know, placing blame on anyone
51:48
Speaker 5: here in any capacity. I just don't understand, Like, how
51:52
Speaker 5: do you do that?
51:53
Speaker 2: That's yeah, Like you know, I don't know either.
51:56
Speaker 1: You know what It's one of those where you read
51:57
Speaker 1: the headline and it's like, you know, you know, twenty
52:01
Speaker 1: stab wounds ruled suicide and your takeaway is that sounds
52:05
Speaker 1: absolutely impossible, right, Yeah, you know, once I dug into
52:09
Speaker 1: it deeply because we did an we did an episode
52:11
Speaker 1: on it. I'll tell you my I leaned a little
52:14
Speaker 1: more towards suicide than I did.
52:16
Speaker 2: I did, Yeah, And I think what.
52:18
Speaker 1: It was for me, and this is just my opinion.
52:22
Speaker 1: Most of the wounds were very very shallow hesitation wounds.
52:26
Speaker 1: And that's what made me kind of tip more towards
52:29
Speaker 1: suicide because I felt as if he murdered her, it
52:31
Speaker 1: would have been in the heat of the moment and
52:33
Speaker 1: it would have been a rage killing, and I don't
52:36
Speaker 1: feel like there would have been all these hesitation wounds,
52:39
Speaker 1: and so that's what that's what, you know, That was
52:42
Speaker 1: my takeaway from it.
52:43
Speaker 5: Anyway, So I did this Sandred Birchmore case that aired
52:47
Speaker 5: in September when you're going back into Karen Reid country. Yeah,
52:50
Speaker 5: and that was they said that was a suicide. And
52:54
Speaker 5: you know that she had hanged herself from the doorknob, yeah,
53:00
Speaker 5: which I didn't even know that was a thing. By
53:01
Speaker 5: the way, like I always think, you know in the movies,
53:03
Speaker 5: you see someone from a door frame, not the door.
53:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that.
53:08
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys talked about that one.
53:10
Speaker 2: But we haven't. We haven't.
53:12
Speaker 1: The only thing I know is the name and that
53:14
Speaker 1: it's connected to Karen Reid. I've had a lot of
53:17
Speaker 1: fans reach out and say you need to take a
53:18
Speaker 1: deep dive into that. It's it's on our list. Haven't
53:21
Speaker 1: gone through it yet, but.
53:22
Speaker 5: Very disturbing, and it's so the the police officer, the
53:27
Speaker 5: detective is has, you know, is behind bars right now.
53:31
Speaker 5: He's been charged with Sandra Birchmore's murder and he I
53:36
Speaker 5: don't believe any trial date has been set. He has
53:38
Speaker 5: led not guilty. But you know, that's one where it's
53:43
Speaker 5: like that went for years with the family saying like, no,
53:48
Speaker 5: she did not take her own life. And finally the FBI, uh,
53:54
Speaker 5: you know this, this chief from one of the police
53:57
Speaker 5: departments involved, She ended up doing an internal affairs investigation
54:01
Speaker 5: on this detective that Sander Birchmore was in a relationship with,
54:06
Speaker 5: according to the police. And so she does has this
54:10
Speaker 5: press conference and just puts it out there that she
54:13
Speaker 5: alleges that he had been grooming Sandra Birchmore from this
54:16
Speaker 5: Young Explorers program with the police department, and that they
54:21
Speaker 5: started this sexual relationship when she was a teenager according
54:24
Speaker 5: to the police. And then they end up she ends
54:27
Speaker 5: up saying telling him I'm pregnant with your child. And
54:32
Speaker 5: so then the really chilling part is he goes over
54:36
Speaker 5: to her apartment, which he's confessed, he admitted, not confessed,
54:43
Speaker 5: he's acknowledged he went over to an apartment and then
54:46
Speaker 5: she ends up dead and then he goes in. His
54:50
Speaker 5: wife delivers their third child within hours of him being
54:54
Speaker 5: over at her apartment in a snowstorm. And so they
54:59
Speaker 5: were like, he did it, he did it, he did it.
55:00
Speaker 5: The family. And then finally the FBI they see this
55:04
Speaker 5: press conference you know, by the chief and I'm sure
55:07
Speaker 5: the other things that went into that, and they get
55:10
Speaker 5: on the case and then he is he's charged by
55:13
Speaker 5: the the US attorney. He was hauled into federal court,
55:19
Speaker 5: and now he's awaiting trial. So I mean, that was
55:22
Speaker 5: that's a really disturbing case. Sure, And then it came
55:26
Speaker 5: out last point on that was that according to reports,
55:31
Speaker 5: and we did report it in our show as well,
55:34
Speaker 5: he didn't It's it turned out he wasn't even the
55:37
Speaker 5: father of her baby.
55:38
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So they did some DNA testing.
55:41
Speaker 5: Something they Yeah, so she had never delivered, she was pregnant,
55:45
Speaker 5: but this whole thing, they said, the motive was the
55:48
Speaker 5: baby and he didn't want, you know, And then it
55:50
Speaker 5: turns out you know that in Israel.
55:54
Speaker 1: So yeah, well we're going to take a deep dive
55:57
Speaker 1: into that at some point. But thank you for putting
55:59
Speaker 1: that on my radar. I've had a lot of fans
56:01
Speaker 1: reach out about that case. But Andrea, thank you so
56:03
Speaker 1: much for coming on today onto Legally Brunette. I appreciate
56:06
Speaker 1: it so much. We would love to have you back
56:07
Speaker 1: sometime to talk about other cases because it's so fun
56:10
Speaker 1: to chat with you, and so thank you so much
56:13
Speaker 1: for joining us.
56:14
Speaker 5: I appreciate we want to have we want to have
56:16
Speaker 5: you on Dateline True Crime Weekly.
56:18
Speaker 2: Yes, I would love that.
56:19
Speaker 5: So we need to set that up. And if anyone
56:21
Speaker 5: wants to follow my stories or know when they're on,
56:23
Speaker 5: just go to my instagram Andrea Canning and you can
56:26
Speaker 5: find out whenever things are airing.
56:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, so make sure you follow Andrea, make sure you
56:31
Speaker 1: watch Dateline, and we look forward to your new Dateline
56:34
Speaker 1: episode with the Crystal Rogers. And you're in the FBI
56:36
Speaker 1: this week.
56:37
Speaker 5: It'll be this week. Yep.
56:38
Speaker 2: Okay, that's great.
56:39
Speaker 5: I'm control.
56:40
Speaker 2: Thanks, Andrea appreciate it. Thanks. Okay, guys, make sure you watch.
56:44
Speaker 1: Andrea's report on Dateline this Friday on NBC. Check your
56:48
Speaker 1: local listings for airtime, and also make sure you follow
56:51
Speaker 1: Andrea Canning on her Instagram.