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The Conversations Leadership Teams Avoid: How Great Coaches Create Candor with Becky Fromkes · The Ambitious Coach Lab

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Inventory, our family.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump into today's episode.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, friends.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: I am so excited to welcome Becky Frankies with us today.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: She is a certified EOS implementer, a self-proclaimed leadership architect, which I just find fascinating.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: Interested to dive into that.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_03: You're also a friend and a former pal teammate at the Entrepreneur Leap Academy.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: We worked together for about a year over there, which was so much fun.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to have you.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Cam.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to be here.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Excited to be here and chat.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's been a long time coming.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: We've been talking about this for a while.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad it worked out.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_03: Well, why don't you kick it off and tell us a little bit about your, you know, entrepreneurial background, how you became an implementer, like fill in the gaps for us.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, my story is that uh I'll start with this because this will probably be part of part of what comes up later.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um I actually went to school for psychology.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I just got like really obsessed with the idea of how people operate and behave.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, after that, then I uh graduated and went into my world of entrepreneurship was actually running two businesses, two family businesses.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I always like to share that because when I talk to the businesses that I'm working with and the entrepreneurs and the founders, I'm like, yes, I get all that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And plus I've done it with families.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the first one I ran was a husband and wife and uh their business.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then the second one was brothers, and that was a large staffing and recruitment, um, you know, talent management company in my hometown.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's really where Cam, I started to get like pretty obsessed with the idea of like how to run businesses.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what I learned about myself during that time was like I'm a builder, and I got to over the nearly 19 years, almost 20 years, I was there, I got to build a lot of things, create a lot of things.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And what I didn't know about myself, and actually some of the work that you and I did together and ELEP helped me really clarify this that like I didn't know for a long time.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I actually am an entrepreneur that was working in other types of businesses and um always was really attracted to that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in a house with an entrepreneur, so just like been in my bloodline.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um and, you know, a few years ago, I just got really clear.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, this is the work I love to do, and I want to go and I want to be able to help people uh live their best lives, impact the world in the the way that they want to, and and I want to be a part of that.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so that's really how I got here.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's how I got here and and why we're having this conversation today, because it's been an amazing experience that has taught me a lot and continues to every day.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, that's it's amazing how you you say, you know, the entrepreneurial in your bloodline, like that's my entire dad side.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is I mean, every single one of them was an entrepreneur.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it's just it's funny how that happens.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if it's the environment that you grew up in or if it truly is like a blood thing.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it's fascinating how it sometimes will come in and bites you, you know.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what's interesting, Kim?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, I I like to share the fact that I spent a lot of time working inside of these businesses, right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and as I referenced, my my dad was an entrepreneur, but he also started working inside of a business in in more of a corporate environment.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I always like to affectionately say he ripped the tie off one day and was like, no more.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember I called him and I was like, hey dad, um I have something to share with you.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've made this huge uh pivot, and this is where I'm going, and you've inspired me.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Do you know how long I've been waiting for this phone call?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, I knew this about you years before you did.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited for you to take the leap and um you're gonna you're gonna fly.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like he had the knowing that I was like, he was just waiting for me to call him one day and be like, I know what I want.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that's so cool.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I feel like that's that's spot on because it's usually people that are that have that outside perspective that see in, they're like, Yeah, well duh.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to come to that conclusion though.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that's so cool.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, okay, so we for this season, I we just decided we're gonna go into stories from the session room is kind of what we were gonna go in.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: And when we were talking in the preliminary, you you started smiling and you were like, Oh, do I have a story for you?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it involves, I guess, the initial part of a meeting and a potentially embarrassing situation.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: So care to elaborate.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go there.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um for uh for the people who are tuned in right now and know anything at all about EOS, you have heard us say rather maybe rather flippantly, uh, open and honest.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about open and honest all the time, right?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so recently uh I had the pleasure of being in the room with Gino, who was delivering this message about open and honest and the way he does is beautiful and creative and and uh poignant and all the things.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm gonna carry that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I really got to carry that message back to my clients because um I say it a lot too.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: What do I expect from you, open and honest?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm starting my sessions differently these days, where I'm having a more thoughtful and intentional conversation around that.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I am seeing a lot of really cool things happen as a result of it.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we really pause and we talk about what that means and what it doesn't mean.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um, a while back, a couple months ago, I was in a session with a team.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had talked to the visionary uh prior to our session, and she was sharing some really just hard things going on.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, it's okay, like we're gonna, I'm gonna open the session differently than I usually do.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just spent time on open and honest and the diff definition and why it matters and how we get there, and really just offering them permission.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I gave them the permission slip.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: So as I'm doing this, um, we get through it and I'm I'm feeling pretty good and they're nodding their heads and and I'm like, okay, that was great.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then I turn around and I start to write something on the board, and I notice I look down, I'm like, oh my gosh, my fly is down.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, what do I do?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I just kind of, you know, zip it up.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I then we take our first break, we go into the bathroom.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: The wet the team is like half men, half women.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the bathroom with the two women, and I said, You guys, were you gonna tell me that my fly was down?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And they like start cracking up.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, not only did you not tell me, but you didn't tell me at the moment that I was delivering the importance of open and honest and telling people things and they are just laughing.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: So then Cam, she said, one of them says to me, Well, actually, um I know this is another rule that we broke, but my brother, who was sitting right in front of you, saw it and texted me.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was trying to text you, but you weren't looking at your phone.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, because we don't look at our phones.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't you just say it?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I I walked back into the session room.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have a laugh, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I walked back into the session room and I said, Okay, before we get started, you guys, um, who saw my fly down?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And there's six people in the row, and just like one at a time.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: They're all like, Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What did I just tell you guys?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: I just explained this whole thing, and you had an opportunity to exercise the muscle none of you did.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: F.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was great.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was the best levity for the day.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was the best levity for the day.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: It cracked open the whole day of us really going there.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I was able to sort of model what good doesn't look like because they did it.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so there you go.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's what happened.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: Man, that is too funny.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that the the irony is just so rich.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you just got that you're in the middle of telling that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, but you think somebody get the message and be like, hey, by the way.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh speaking of which, Becky, we have something to share with you.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they weren't gonna do that.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: They were they were not ready to do that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in fairness, they hadn't just received the message, so I'm gonna give them the grace that maybe it was still depressed.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, totally.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that is too funny.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great story.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but it it probably does open it up into, you know, as humorous as that situation is, there probably are more situations where leadership teams, you know, don't say the thing and they let it boil over for probably months, maybe even years at a time.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, how do you find that like when there was that moment of almost the tension breaking of the fly situation, do you feel like that almost opened the team up to be more honest in that situation or in that session?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I really think they did um see that in action, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because I say it a lot.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and if uh, you know, you can ask any one of my clients, I always make a joke.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, hey guys, I I never brag.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't brag about anything, but I will say this.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have this one track record that is still strong.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: 100% of the people that have walked into my session room have all walked out with their limbs in place, their eyeballs in place.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is still in order, even the ones that said the really hard things, you know?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that used to kind of be my like, this is how I create levity because everybody kind of laughs, you know.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and, but um, yeah, I mean, it changes the entire tone that for that particular day, it changed the entire tone of the day.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: There were really hard things that had to be addressed that day.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And in that moment, um, you know, I think we all just their shoulders dropped and they were like, okay, we get it.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's a fun example, and that feels lighthearted.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I got to be kind of the butt of the joke.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the truth was they got to see me laugh about it a little bit and then also be like, and we're fine, and we're fine.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: All you had to do is tell me.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, thank you.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, putting that into context of harder conversations and deeper history and real issues affecting the business, I know is not always the easiest thing, but when you can really experience it at this little kind of like, okay, we get that how that works.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now what if we take it up a notch?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it definitely changed the course of the day for that particular session.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then to be honest, I've shared the story with a lot of clients since then, and everybody gets a laugh.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yes.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know what's happening when people are laughing?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, two things.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: One, they're either nervous or they're comfortable.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And usually I'm going for, okay, I'm more comfortable now, right?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's so good.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because there probably is a there's a big difference between, you know, all right, saying this is a safe space, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can say the thing versus the the team actually believing that in the moment.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think a coach has to do to set that up, frame that, or even earn that level of like candor, um, you know, within a room?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: And what does that look like in a coaching, you know, perspective?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, such a great question.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a couple of things, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, um just being really clear about what good looks like and what it doesn't look like, right?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times what I'm doing when I'm explaining the differences is I'm asking my teams to reflect on experiences that maybe they've had, right?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you think about somebody who um is not open, but is really willing to be honest.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, okay, Cam, let's talk about that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: What does that look like?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the person in the room who is willing to say really big and hard and like jolting things, not willing to take it back.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what I do is I ask them to think of an experience that they've had where they've been in that room or in that conversation or in that relationship.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it immediately connects them to what that feels like.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I think that's been really helpful because usually what I see people do is go, oh yeah, I know that person or I am that person, which is amazing when they can have that level of self-awareness.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, really just like walking them through what it what good looks like and asking them to really like sit with that experience because I want them to sort of feel what it feels like, and then how do we move forward so that we're not recreating that in the rooms that we're in together as leaders?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the other thing is is just, and I've mentioned this a couple of times, is just giving them permission.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because Kim, I don't think these teams have been given permission ever, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: You get onto your leadership team one way or another, whether you were hired in or you grew into it.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like suddenly your expectation is that you're gonna say all the hard things and um ask all the what you feel like are not very smart questions because you're gonna be judged.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody ever taught us these types of things.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: So this is really just like fundamentally stripping it away and saying, okay, this is what it looks like and this is why it matters.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes just A pointing it out to them and B giving them permission to do it really changes the whole narrative.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that's great.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Let's tap into your undergrad, right?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: A little bit like the psychology aspect.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you think people get into those situations?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: I love the like, you know, either you hired or grew into it because those are two different dynamics, let's be honest.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: But why do you think people do tend to withhold, even though it's the right thing and they know it?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like I mean, I've been in that situation where I knew it was the right thing and I didn't speak up.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And then three months later it was like, oh man, we didn't think about this.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, I did, but I didn't say anything.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's grounded in science.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: So just walk with me here for a second.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Cam, we were biologically built to protect ourselves, right?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just we all we all know it, fight or flight, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So our bodies, like we are physically wired to be safe.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if we are not safe, we do things that make us feel more safe.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes in a room of leaders, that looks like not saying the hard thing because you want to make sure that you feel safe.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Our our brains, our our brains are built to make sure that we feel a sense of safety all the time, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you uh and we're not evolving fast enough uh as it relates to these types of things, right?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So we still operate like the tiger is chasing us in that's not our real world anymore, right?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So where does that show up?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It shows up in in these scenarios.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big part of it.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it is as strange as that might seem for me, like when I started to connect those dots back together, I was like, oh yeah, it just turns out it's the machine of our bodies that we're working against to say, all right, I'm just gonna say something really uncomfortable and also try to feel safe at the same time.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to build that safety, which looks like building the trust in the room.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a uh like a moment?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because again, trying to tie like really practical, like an example.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, do you have a moment that's in your mind that's maybe, you know, a little bit more um more than like a flying down, but where someone you could sense someone was holding back.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: And how did you handle that as a coach to kind of carefully bring that up?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's a that's a tender area to play in.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is, it is.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, a lot of what I do in the room, like yes, I teach the framework of EOS and um, you know, I help people get really good at those tools and how to use them and all of that.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: But that's just like part of it, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um, what do I do?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is I read body language, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for cues because only 7% of what we say is what we're I'm sorry, 7% of what we're communicating is in our words.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else is tone, is body language, is timing, is, you know, um, even the volume, how you're leaning in versus, you know, looking away.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So some simple examples, you know, when I'm in a hard moment and I see somebody turn away or look down or not, or I say, Hey, Cam, um, it seems like you might have something to say to Joe.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And Cam, you start talking to me and I say, Cam, this was a question that you needed to address with Joe.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you talking to me right now?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's some things like that that I'm helping redirect the energy in the room for those types of conversations.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes this also just looks like saying nothing because people are really uncomfortable with that, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the really comfortable thing to do is just keep walking past it, keep talking past it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes as a coach, the best thing I can do is just step back and wait and give space.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: If that makes sense.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um do you is that something you've learned over time?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, I'm sure that takes some time to be able to pick up on that.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: Now, obviously, you have some training in that from your undergrad, like blah, blah, blah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I would imagine, I mean, is that something you can pick up on in the 90-minute meeting or focus day?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: Or is that something like that tends to show up at like a, you know, the first quarterly?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how long does it normally take you?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or is that, I mean, is it case by case?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: It um, no, I I would say just to in general, I don't think there's like a perfect timeline, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um it's it's layers, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So in that 90-minute meeting, we're meeting for the first time and we're getting to know each other, but I am already collecting data on how people behave and what they say and how they show up in conversations and how much oxygen they take compared to the rest of the people in the room.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I start making mental note of that.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna, in our first session, we're gonna have to talk about shared oxygen or whatever.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: These are just some examples of things.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other big data point for me here, and this is a big one, would be um the reflection of my own experiences and what I needed versus what I got.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm talking about before becoming an EOS implementer.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: So leadership teams I was a part of, or um experiences I had where I'm like, oh, okay, what would have been helpful for me in that moment to really be able to say what was on my mind or ask the hard question, or you know what I mean?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um some of that that I bring into my session room with my clients today are from my lived experiences of things that I knew that worked and things that didn't work, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where I see my clients, they are able to connect with me faster.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And not to make it about the fly, but like what it comes down to it, Cam, everybody just wants to know that like we're all we're all just human beings, right?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all just doing the best that we can.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we none of us have the real answer.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we just want to feel safe and vulnerable with each other.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think like that's where that trust and that connection comes back in.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's really like both reading the rooms I'm in now, starting to understand that from the moment I meet people to reflecting back on what worked for me and how I can use that to help the people I'm working with now.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a process that goes beyond like the mental note?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean, do you have a post session kind of where, all right, we're starting to, whether that's documenting certain things or it's like, there's some interesting tension there, or is that stuff you're just tapping back here and you've learned how to do that over time?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably a healthy combination of both.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I definitely take uh a lot of mental notes, but because here's the thing like mental notes are one thing, but there is also just like a reading of energy and an absorption of energy.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, like one thing I take note of of every session is how I feel walking out.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I reflect back on why do I feel this way?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: What happened in the room today?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And this is not about me and my physical space and what's going on in my world.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's like my body is giving me information about the energy that I receive today and what do I do with that?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do I carry that forward?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: So on days where things are going really well in the session room and we have tons of alignment and energy and positive momentum, I feel energized, right?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I feel really energized.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I feel tired, but I'm still really energized.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have also noticed that on days where we're having really hard conversations and people are not sharing their truths and they're holding.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Bag, I feel completely wiped out, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I I think there's maybe a part of me that's trying to be like, I want to hold this space for you, but like I need you to pull it out.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's exhausting, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I take really clear notes about okay, what happened?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a certain conversation?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is there an issue we didn't truly get to the root of?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is there a person in here that is going through something personal that found its way into the room today?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's a combination of both of those things.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that checks out.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: My brain's telling me to ask this, so I'm just gonna go this way.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you talked a little bit about how, I mean, there can be sessions that can be exhausting, right?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have and especially like the emotionally exhausting aspect?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have some sort of post-session work?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I'm thinking as an athlete, a former athlete, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like after a game or after practice, I would go and I would sit and ice and then I would stretch.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: And like I had like you have certain things that allow you to get back to where your cup is full if you have a session maybe the next day after an exhausting session, you have a process.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, I will say this.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that I do that I've built into my practice is I immediately brain dump right away.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So um, whether that's in my session room or in the car sometimes, uh, because that's just how life is for me right now, Cam.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the car a lot.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's my I call it my mobile office.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I love it.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do is I pick this guy up and I'm like, okay, hey, Claude, this is what happened.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just need you to listen.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just dump out all the things.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I want like a real and raw sort of like in the moment where my head was, right?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if I I would love to say that I go and do the ice bath right after, but the truth is I'm probably driving three kids around.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what what does it really look like?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I have a session the next day, um, I have more, I'm really more grounded into my morning routine and my preparation for how to go into the next day.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's usually where I can like recalibrate my energy for the day.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I like though that though that you still have that moment where I just get it out, right?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think if you didn't, you're you're holding that energy in and then you're taking that into your time of rest and recovery and rejuvenation.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I am a firm believer in energy carrying and being able to have separation.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think just that act of getting it out is so wise.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, for sure.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it it can get to where you're just taking the the height of the emotion of a previous day and taking that into the next room, which then they're gonna feed off that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so it just starts to have this ripple effect.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I love that, and I think it's important to have that morning routine too, kind of where you go in.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I appreciate you like giving a sneak peek behind.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was just like curious about that aspect.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, for me, um, that morning routine can vary, but it does uh uh always require some sort of movement.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and I that could be really hard workout, it could be something more gentle like yoga or a walk, but I do have to move.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, you know, sometimes it's just 15, 20, maybe 30 minutes of just doing nothing and just kind of re-grounding into, okay, we're starting into a new day.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is where we're going.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, so that's it, it just varies on what the day is, but it's very important that I move and I, you know, get my brain moving in that direction too for the day.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I I have always I I I don't understand people that are able to, I have the utmost respect for them, but they can go work out at like eight o'clock at night.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I would much rather wake up early and go to the gym and get my body moving.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: I for me, that's just the way I work, and it just is better for me.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: More props to people that do it at night, but I'm I'm with you.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, no, that's about moving your body.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Those nighttime people are complete aliens to me.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, how does one how does one do that?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's yeah, I I wake up naturally pretty energized, so I have to do something with that and like regulate myself.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if not, I I would be uh quite the force to be reckoned with in the morning at a session.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, I mean, let's like on that note, um, from from an energy perspective where you're going in, I'm sure it would be very easy in the midst of let's say a tense moment in a session where especially coaches, you have all this entrepreneurial energy, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's probably really easy to step in and either guide to or kind of speak into a situation.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: How have you learned that balance of just keep it quiet, letting it play out versus actually stepping in, like, okay, we're getting close to throwing hands here.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: We I should probably step in.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that what's that balance for you?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is hard.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm naturally wired to be a person who wants to be super helpful, right?
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's that's my passion is to help people.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm gonna point us back to a uh part of the conversation that I was just talking about.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I come out of the room feeling energized, is because they were on the right path and I could truly like help them align from a facilitation and a coaching and a teaching standpoint, because we're not consultants.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really not telling them what to do.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's irresponsible of me.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Those one, those sessions where I'm telling you, I'm feeling so drained, is like the ones where I am literally holding back, like we're all dancing around it, but I can't be the one to say, this is the issue and this is what you have to do.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the part that drains my energy, is because I have to, I have learned, it's taken time, but I have learned to like uh zip the mouth and just stand back.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, sometimes um sometimes that does look like just me being honest with them and saying, guys, I see it, but it it would be not my place.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: So let's keep asking deeper questions.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: What's really happening here?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like what really is going on, you know?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so I mean, it's uh that is definitely I think the most challenging part.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, I use a lot of analogies and it's like until you have young kids, so you get this.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: But like if you were trying to get your kid to ride a bike before they were ready, it's just gonna be a disaster.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: If my client is not ready to really uncover or haven't found their way to the root of the issue, and I just point them to it, what did they learn from that?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't learn anything, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, but that's something that's a muscle I have to continue to work on building because like naturally I feel inclined to me like I can see it so clearly.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could too.
• 29:08
  unknown: Right.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have, I mean, that's that's so powerful.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I want to double-click on that.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have a moment that maybe comes to mind or you know, even not in coaching, but where you did have the discipline to stay quiet and then it almost worked itself out?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've found that even in parenting, you know, it's just sometimes I when I stay quiet, it tends to work itself out sometimes.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: Now, obviously, and there's certain situations where you have to step in.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: But do you have a moment in mind?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I mean, honestly, I was working with this team recently, and um uh it's so hard because I want to take care of them, right?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like they're my almost like my family.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they had they they have been grappling with a situation of somebody on their leadership team, and it's been quarter after quarter after quarter, you know.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I know that in the prior quarters I was like, well, have we thought about this?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Have we thought about that?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally just was like, I'm gonna stop and I'm just gonna sit here and like I even physically moved myself out of sort of their talking space and was like, I'm just gonna kinda let them get there.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm I'm really going to encourage like my observership, my witnessing while they sit and be uncomfortable.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then they f I mean they finally got there.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: They finally got there.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, we know the answer.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: We also know the issue.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: We are the issue.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're we're choosing safety over the hard conversation.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're protecting this person who's been in our organization for so long because you know what?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: It serves us.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't serve the organization, but it serves us.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a huge unlock moment.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I was so like proud of them.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it also gave them the confidence that they can they can do these things, they can get there, they can find these answers.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that was recent.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's yeah, but it was really cool.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: That is that is that's a great example.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, there's there's such I'm just I'm learning, I'm very similar to you.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: I want to help.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm also my brain tends to start working when my mouth starts moving.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: So that's also a problem.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so, but I'm learning the power of silence right now.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: That is such a powerful where others can come to conclusions and that actually allows them to grow and develop.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and so there's just so much power in silence.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: But on the so I want to I want to kind of talk on the flip side of open and honest because there's the there's a that could be weaponized.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: We'll say, you know, the therapy talk.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes therapy weaponized.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, have you ever dealt with the situation like that?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Or have you ever seen, all right, guys, we're gonna be open and honest today, and somebody takes that license to just be unnecessarily cruel or you know, targeted at somebody?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, how do you handle that where more direct attacks maybe come into the session room?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because obviously you gotta probably nip that in a bud quick.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think what comes to mind, I mean, I I will say maybe I'm lucky in this, in that most of my, I think most of my clients are on the other end of things where right now I'm trying to help them get more open and honest.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, um there have been times, I mean, actually earlier in in my journey, um, I can think one specific uh group I was working with, and there was clearly um somebody that was sitting very squarely in the um in in the quadrant of he was really willing to be honest and not take that from anybody else, right?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember being in that room and the energy was so like it was thick, like you could cut it with a knife.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and it was tense.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I remember what specifically happened, which was very uncomfortable for me because I was rather new, is that he squared off with me.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so it wasn't the leadership team, it was he was questioning, you know, what I was doing and how I was approaching the issue.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I remember thinking, okay, um what I need to do here is really understand where he's coming from.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then also like, what is the data?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's the data tell us?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because um I felt like in that particular pos situation, it was very emotionally driven and I knew intuitively there was like a lot of other layers, and I had become really the um, I had become sort of the way that he was going to get this all out.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't really about me, honestly.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in that moment, um open and honest, I was terrified.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna get fired.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like shaking, I don't know what's going on.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember pausing and being like, okay, let's just hear the data.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just want to understand these points, you know.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that neutralized the situation a little bit.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, what I think is cool about that, even though it was very uncomfortable at the time, is I got to experience it firsthand.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, in this in the situations where I might have some more elevated conversations like that, I feel like I'm like, okay, I exp I have experienced this in this room.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know what it feels like.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what I think we should do, right?
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Take a beat, let's pause, let's get the real information, um, and then move forward with what we really know, not what we assume.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's really good because that probably does just that simple moment takes the emotion kind of out of it, or you know, usually emotions start to flare up and they're, you know, signs of things going on and they're always pointers.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, when you bring data into it and it's like, okay, let's let's start to be a little bit more rational about that, then cool, you know, let cooler heads prevail.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've heard.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: I love that because you know, when you're seeing red, I I, you know, when my son is, you know, going like hasn't having a breakdown.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's like he's looking through red glasses.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Everything he sees is gonna be red.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, I think it's very similar in tense situations like that.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: So having that emotional groundedness, I think it's critical for coaches.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's that's an unit's a it's not talked about enough is the emotional intelligence of a coach because you have to have done the work to not let yourself get fired up and caught up in that emotion, to where then you're just putting fuel on the fire at that point.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: So props to you for learning that and being able to kind of bring that back in because I'm sure that's a journey.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yo, yeah, for sure.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, trust me, this was like earlier in my um EOS journey.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, I really I had like a full-body physical response in that moment.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I've done this before.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: What do we do here?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So um, in my in my way past, I was a dancer.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it there's a stage presence.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's also stage fright as a real thing.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, okay, I have to go into um performance mode and breathe through this.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know the steps, I know what I'm doing.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I can't overthink it, right?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it was almost like I was having that experience of what I used to think about when I was dancing on stage, like in that moment where I'm like, okay, what do I do here?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I'm thankful that it happened.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't love it in the moment, but um, for what it's worth, he wasn't there the next quarterly.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: That makes sense.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: That made a lot of sense.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, and now I feel validated, which was not a decision I helped them through.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: They found it, they found that decision on their own.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it was in that moment I was like, okay, I wasn't, I I was reading this situation clearly.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and that's not always the outcome, but um, yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: So well, if if he has a level of comfort to go at you as coach, who has very little relational capital with, I can't even imagine, you know, the people that he does have deeper relationships with and has more, you know, context.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: So that I mean, usually it's always a sign of a deeper thing when you see things like that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, props to you for handling it that way.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't know.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: I did the best I could in the moment.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, this is awkward.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: But what's cool about that though is, and we talk about this as really a competency of being a great ambitious coach, is mastery.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're always learning and adapting and learning how to handle things better.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: And you're you're I love being able to just take data in, right?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're doing that in every single session.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_03: There's a situation that you deal with that I guarantee you you're gonna see again one day.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like, all right, help me like how many, how do I think through this?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then probably your process of I I would love to go back to your Claude conversation and that, you know, maybe it was early.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: I guess Claude maybe went around to the, but you know, your your debrief notes are like about that situation because you probably were able to talk through it, which helped you internalize how you're gonna handle it next time.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, that's mastery in action.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: So that's really cool.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was cool.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: On the thing, I want to ask one more kind of question while we're in things.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we've talked a lot about like tense moments and whatnot, but I mean, what are some situations where you've seen open and honest lead to some of the most fruitful situations where it's unlocked something for a company?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm sure there's, you know, it's easy to talk about the negatives.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Those are more, you know, quote unquote, you know, entertaining.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm sure there are plenty of stories where teams unlock something that led to a fruitful conversation or what?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have a um, I have a team that I've been working with, oh my gosh, I for two, I think two years now.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're about, yeah, we're about to round the bases on their second quarterly.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I they were actually running on EOS before I met with them or before I got involved and then they brought me in.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, it took us a few quarters, but um essentially at a high level, there was just this really strong vision that they had built, but it it involved some players on the leadership team that I had a sense like probably not the right people.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they weren't quite there yet on calling it out.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what happened was um is like when we got really clear on who needed to be in the like the exact right people in the right seat.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: One, everything changed uh for the company.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: And two, like we got more aligned on the actual vision.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that was such an unlock for that visionary specifically, because I think um she's a very empathetic human and really uh cares deeply about her team.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think she was being influenced on some things that from not having the right people in the right seat.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's kind of twofold, right?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: We got really clear about who needed to be in the in the in uh in the organization.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then that allowed us the uh directional alignment to the the vision that really made sense, that the passion in her heart, where where the company could have the biggest impact.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and like that I that just changed everything because we had those honest conversations about people, right?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's something I've been really proud of to not saying I did that work, but be alongside that team and watch them grow in that way.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and I mean, Cam, I'm never ever shy to say that I am very, very honed in and passionate about getting it right on the people side because I just don't think I I just I don't truly believe you can get to where you want to be if you don't have the right people.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um that was a very obvious connect and unlock for that team.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's so cool.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's gotta be so rewarding um as a coach to see teams work through that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I wholeheartedly agree with you.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how you cannot lean into the people side.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's how you activate and unlock.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And let's just be honest, it's way more fun when you get the people think right.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, why would you not want to work with people that you want to like enjoy working with?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like that's right.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: The people that believe in what we're doing and feel like they belong in what we're doing.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, that's the end goal.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: When you have those things, oh my gosh, life becomes so much more fun.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: You actually enjoy coming to work.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's gotta be so fun as a coach to see that.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is, but I also think it's the hardest, like being the conversations about the people as it relates to this topic of open and honest, that is the hardest one.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, let's be open and honest about the process.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Great, easy, right?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh let's be open and honest about our data.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Really easy until we start talking about the people, right?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like, yeah, that's and then what does it always point us back to?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on with our people?
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's where open and honest is like, are we really gonna say it or not?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're we're far more complex than the the perception that we have in front of.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, people are so they have so many more things going on with them and situations outside of work that they're bringing in.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: So it's the it's the most important thing to lean into, but I agree it's the hardest just because we're dynamic beings, right?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: There's lots of lots of layers.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Some of us have more layers than others, you know.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's but that work is so worthwhile.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And and I, you know, I I one thing, um, not one thing, there's many things here, but when I think about the makeup of my leadership teams, um, and then this is I'm gonna take us back to science here for a second, Cam.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um part of part again, back to let's keep ourselves safe and not say really uncomfortable things goes back a long time.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Time when we were trying to survive.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if we looked the same, if you and I look the same, I could just make a quick assumption that we are probably we can trust each other.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: And okay, this is and this is how you know tribes of humans kept themselves safe, right?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: So think about it now.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're being put onto these leadership teams where we don't all look the same and we don't all think the same.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's men, it's women, it's diverse, it's this, it's that.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't know that uh how important it is to, and I'm gonna use your words, to peel back those layers and find our true connection points.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like we don't understand that.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's just that's what building trust is all about, right?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um again, this is like in our bodies to protect ourselves from things that look and feel different because that's that's danger, right?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, I'm just tying this all back to people really um they they have to find these ways to connect and understand each other and and and get cu get really curious without judging so that they can they can build that trust, feel safe, say the hard thing, even if it's about the people and the organization, which tends to be the biggest struggle.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_03: So that's in my opinion, that's the beauty of EOS is that it gives you here's where we're going.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Here are who we are as core values, here's the you know what we want to be in 10 years and our focus, and it allows people to be like, oh, I buy into that, or yeah, well, maybe that's not for me.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: Let's go find you somewhere that you can believe in that.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's what that's the beauty of EOS.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I love saying that because that's great.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: But Becky, this has been awesome.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: I we have dove so deep.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: I had no doubt that we would.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Always it's easy to go there.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: This was such a fun conversation.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: But I always like to ask guests two questions kind of on the tail end.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: So, first one is I'm gonna let you go down kind of memory lane here and go back to when you were first starting out in coaching.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: But let's say you have all the knowledge and experience that you have now.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: What advice would you give yourself?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, I I love this question for two reasons, because the advice that I would give myself now is the same advice I would have given myself, you know, before I was doing this, which is just to trust myself.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Trust myself.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like trust what I am seeing, trust what I am curious about, trust that the things that I say might be important enough to impact the conversation or the direction.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Just trust yourself, right?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if I boil that back into the container of being a a, you know, a coach and the EOS um uh environment, you know, it's hard when you first start, right?
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're like, I have to facilitate this day and I have the tools and I'm doing this, you know, and then like, oh, I'm picking up on that, and somebody said that.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I yeah, I wish I would have just right from the beginning then like, we gotta call it out right now, and it's gonna be okay that we call it out, you know.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think try, you know, trusting myself is a um a lesson that I will continue to learn for the rest of my life.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's good.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's really master.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there you go.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: We gotta get to compensate.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, that's good.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you sharing that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's a that's a really good word.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, second question is a little bit more current.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_03: So as we on the topic of mastery, we should always be learning.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: But what's a lesson that you're in the middle of learning in this current moment?
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm, yeah.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the lesson I am currently learning um is really just about I mean, the word that's coming to mind is balance.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then again, I feel like I'm cheating because I'm like, that's always gonna be the lesson I'm learning, Kim.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: But um what I'm really talking about is where is my energy best used, right?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: For the places where it should be.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very tough uh when you are a person who loves to help to say no to opportunities to help.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I want to help everyone.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I always want to, you know, get in there and be like, what can I do?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: What can I do?
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's that's that is a lesson I'm learning in many ways right now of saying, okay, save that for the most high impact places um versus you know spreading it out in all these sorts of ways, which at the end of the day just will completely deplete me if I'm not careful.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then it also dilutes the energy that where I should be giving the absolute full body yeses.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um that is that is a lesson I am learning.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: And even as I think about something as practical as scheduling the next year to year and a half time with clients, I have to be really clear about where all of my time is is being spent and and how I use it.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's good.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's a you're right.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: That is a like that's an ongoing.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: But that's it's so, I mean, it's so easy to grab everything and say yes to everything.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I I feel that.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so I appreciate you sharing that.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: What's a good place if people want to get in touch with you?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: They want to pick Becky's brain.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what's a good yeah.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the best way is really um, you know, I have my EOS micro microsite, I have uh my LinkedIn, you have my email address.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best way.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the best way.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of time, I have um fully committed that I I won't manage my own calendar.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I have somebody that helps me do that.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: So when somebody says, hey, I would love to get time with you, I'm like, that is not on my um accountability chart anymore.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if you email me, my calendar manager, who is also named Becky, which is super fun, um is is uh very in tune with with that kind of thing.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I would, you know, I welcome conversations and just questions and um love to be able to help where I can.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you for for taking the time to chat.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I really appreciate it, Becky.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's been fun.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_03: So, and thank you for tuning in.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: This has been great.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: We got plenty more where that came from.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you on the next one.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's it for today's episode of the Ambitious Coach Lab.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: My hope is that something here helps you sharpen your craft and keep building a coaching practice you're proud of.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: Before we wrap, a quick thank you to our sponsor, Nike.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: If your coaching leadership teams have to fight to run your entire world in Nike truly elevate your world, vision rocket scorecard is used all this in one section live play.
• 51:03
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• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: I've used Nike with over 500 leadership teams I can say it makes great companies better and great coaches even more effective.
• 51:17
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• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: Again at 8020 foot20%.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for hanging out with me today.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Kevin.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Cheering on as you grow your efficient.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you next time.