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Eggs 444: The Hidden Cost of Delegation with Kayvon Kay · EGGS! The Podcast

• 0:00
  Hey everybody, it's Ryan. Welcome back to Eggs podcast
• 0:03
  Today special guest is Kayvon K, founder of The Sales Connection.
• 0:06
  Kayvon, how are you, man? I'm doing great.
• 0:08
  Thanks so much for having me. Absolutely.
• 0:10
  Thanks so much for making time to be here.
• 0:11
  Yes. Yeah, why don't you give us a
• 0:14
  brief overview of who you are and what you do.
• 0:17
  I know sales is pretty much your thing, but you define that a
• 0:20
  little more. For yeah, for sure.
• 0:21
  I mean, you know, we founded the sales Connection, me and my
• 0:24
  business partner and essentially what we do is we build remote
• 0:28
  sales teams, sales departments, operations, reporting,
• 0:31
  everything that you can think about when it comes to a virtual
• 0:34
  sales department. We build that for businesses.
• 0:38
  Prior to that, we were we actually built a a sales
• 0:42
  training company that went from zero to 38 million in 18 months
• 0:47
  and that was seven days before I was bankrupt.
• 0:51
  So so and then but prior to that, I've, you know, 25 years
• 0:56
  of of sales experience now it's my entire career was is always
• 0:59
  been sales. I always tell people, I mean,
• 1:02
  they asked me when did I know as a salesperson?
• 1:04
  And I would say, and basically in kindergarten when I was
• 1:07
  written off by the school system, told that I was, you
• 1:09
  know, never going to make it a DDADHDLD learning reading,
• 1:13
  writing math, like what was left is Ed.
• 1:16
  So since that, since that day, I've been just been selling,
• 1:20
  selling, selling my dream, selling my way, selling my
• 1:23
  future, selling my ideas, my inspiration, all of that.
• 1:26
  And it's always just been part of who I am.
• 1:28
  Do you mind, can you pull that mic down just a little bit where
• 1:31
  you're getting like a little pop off of it?
• 1:33
  I think it's. Good to know.
• 1:34
  Thank you. Yeah, no worries.
• 1:37
  Turn that down. Yeah, there you go.
• 1:40
  There you. Go.
• 1:40
  Is that better there? Much better.
• 1:42
  What's your what was your first sales gig?
• 1:46
  My very first sales gig was watching my uncle when I was
• 1:50
  11/12/13 and he used to work on a sales furniture store, you
• 1:57
  know, the local little small town, you know, he ended up
• 1:59
  actually working as a salesman and owning it himself one day.
• 2:02
  But I remember being on the sales floor with him every
• 2:04
  Saturday, Sunday he was kind of my babysitter.
• 2:06
  And at that point I was watching him sell and he kind of showed
• 2:10
  me the, the carrot, what it took to be a charismatic salesperson.
• 2:13
  I had to sell with, with relationships connecting versus
• 2:17
  just selling, you know, products and features.
• 2:19
  Then then what happened was I always had that knack for sales.
• 2:23
  And then I ended up getting my own retail job selling shoes.
• 2:27
  That was my very first gig. And then I mean, from there, I
• 2:31
  mean, we've been in 5-6 different sectors, but my last
• 2:35
  corporate sales job was the number one.
• 2:37
  I was the number one pharmaceutical sales Rep for one
• 2:39
  of the largest companies in the world.
• 2:41
  OK, Farmer sales. Yeah, before I kind of left the
• 2:44
  corporate world and started my own, my own thing.
• 2:47
  Well, let's talk a little bit about that transition too then.
• 2:49
  So I mean, you know, just on on sort of the entrepreneurial tip
• 2:52
  and and we can get more into sales stuff as we go.
• 2:54
  But you know, obviously that's a big change, right?
• 2:56
  Taking the risk of going from a sort of a regular paycheck.
• 3:00
  I mean, I guess it was probably Commission driven or whatever,
• 3:02
  but a steady check to all of a sudden going out on your own.
• 3:05
  Was that your first attempt to entrepreneurship?
• 3:07
  That was my first real attempt to entrepreneurship and it was
• 3:12
  yeah. I mean, it was scary.
• 3:13
  It's all there's many reasons most people don't do it because
• 3:16
  it's scary. How do you walk away from a
• 3:17
  250,300 thousand dollar job working one day a week company,
• 3:22
  card company, a car, the credit card, all of it.
• 3:25
  I mean, it was a it was a fake luxury lifestyle.
• 3:30
  And why why I say fake was this was even back then.
• 3:33
  I can't even imagine today. So this was back in 2014.
• 3:36
  Fifteen, I, I moved down to Vancouver, one of the, you know,
• 3:40
  one of the richest cities in the world and, you know, making 200
• 3:43
  grand, 300 grand a year, you realize how actually poor you
• 3:45
  are. And I knew that if I was ever
• 3:48
  going to live a life of the significance that I wanted to
• 3:50
  live and live a life that was above average, that I wasn't
• 3:53
  going to be one of those types of guys.
• 3:54
  I was OK, I'm just going to work and save my dollar And, and you
• 3:57
  know, by time I'm 45 or 50 or whatever it is, maybe I'll have
• 4:00
  enough to enjoy life. So I had to make a real decision
• 4:02
  because even even looking at my trajectory in corporate, I'm
• 4:06
  like, what, what's the Max, you know, a good CEO makes in
• 4:08
  Canada? Maybe 4 or 500 grand a year.
• 4:11
  I, I wanted to become a millionaire, right?
• 4:12
  So I, I do tell people I, I, I was lucky and fortunate to have
• 4:19
  this change and move when I was, I think I was like 3031.
• 4:23
  I didn't have a family at that time.
• 4:25
  So sure, it might be a little easier, but it was still my God,
• 4:29
  it was scary because again, I come from humble beginning.
• 4:32
  So there was nobody that was saving me from this decision.
• 4:34
  And, and the reason I needed, the reason I really wanted to do
• 4:38
  it was I was so done with the corporate world.
• 4:41
  I felt like I was in school again.
• 4:42
  I literally felt like I was back in school.
• 4:44
  The politics, the drama, the bureaucracy.
• 4:47
  I was the number one sales Rep in the in the country.
• 4:53
  I blew everybody away by 31% of my Commission, like of my, of my
• 4:58
  budget, 31%. And at the end of the year they
• 5:02
  give out this huge award, which was, it was like an extra like
• 5:04
  $10,000 cash, which at that time is a huge, a lot of money to me.
• 5:08
  And the most important was I got to take gas onto like, you know,
• 5:12
  a five star luxury. I mean, we're talking like
• 5:15
  thirty, $40,000 per person type of trip.
• 5:18
  So I worked my I told my manager to begin the year.
• 5:20
  I was like, this is the year I'm going for it.
• 5:22
  And she's like, I know. And sure enough, technically I
• 5:25
  want it. Well, at the end of the year
• 5:28
  when they went to go, I was at the awards, at the awards event.
• 5:32
  And when they went and everyone's shaking my hand
• 5:34
  because everyone knew the numbers.
• 5:35
  Numbers don't lie, right? Shake my hand as if, you know,
• 5:38
  before I want it. Oh, congratulations.
• 5:40
  And when they mentioned when they announced the name, they
• 5:43
  didn't announce Kayvon K. What?
• 5:47
  Why? Well, like, what?
• 5:48
  Like, is this wrong? No.
• 5:51
  Well, they didn't like the way I wore my pants.
• 5:56
  They did not like the way that I wore my pants.
• 6:00
  They were too tight for the, for the old boys club, for the, you
• 6:04
  know, the old shitty loose suits, white shirt, shitty ass
• 6:07
  tie, looked like a fat fuck. Sorry.
• 6:09
  You guys swear on hand, you're all you're all good.
• 6:11
  Sorry, like a slob, right? They didn't like the fact that I
• 6:15
  had nice color and that I was dressed sharp.
• 6:18
  And they said they didn't want me to be the representation of
• 6:21
  the company. That was my you know, the, the,
• 6:25
  the straw that breaks the camel's back.
• 6:27
  That was it for me. I just knew if that happens
• 6:30
  here, that happens everywhere. And now I hear stories about how
• 6:33
  it does. So I knew that I was like, I'm
• 6:35
  not doing this. There's no way that I'm living
• 6:37
  my life like this. I got to live it on my own
• 6:39
  terms. And that's so at some point you
• 6:43
  just got to make the decision. Now here's what's really
• 6:45
  important about this story. A year before this, I tried
• 6:49
  building a business. I was like, I wanted to do some
• 6:51
  second income stuff and about at the end of the year, there was
• 6:55
  no business. And the reason why was because
• 6:58
  every time something became challenging or became hard, or
• 7:02
  that what I call most people run away from mental toughness like
• 7:04
  that mental laziness, like I have to actually sit down and
• 7:07
  critically think and actually do something that's not, that's
• 7:10
  easy to me. I would just say, I'll just do
• 7:12
  it tomorrow because I had that comfy check, right?
• 7:15
  I'll just do it tomorrow. I'll just do it tomorrow.
• 7:16
  And again, lucky enough I was smart enough.
• 7:18
  After a year, I'm like, well, that didn't work, so I had to
• 7:21
  cut the tie. Some people could break right.
• 7:24
  Some people would never could possibly fathom actually taking
• 7:27
  that leap and cutting the the the tie.
• 7:29
  I personally believe you will never get to success if you
• 7:32
  don't truly do that. Yeah, it's it's kind of critical
• 7:35
  actually. Both Ron and I have been in that
• 7:37
  position where we cut the tie, but not intentionally.
• 7:41
  It just kind of happened. So now we have to either shit or
• 7:44
  get off the pot kind of thing. And it it really, it lights a
• 7:48
  candle under you and and gets you going if you I have nothing
• 7:51
  else coming in so. Well, the problem is people have
• 7:54
  plans, right? They got Plan B, they got Plan
• 7:56
  C, they got plan D. So when plan A starts going
• 8:00
  sideways, what do they do? They go to easy Plan B, Plan CI,
• 8:02
  don't have Plan B, or CI got Plan A.
• 8:05
  That was it. I had one plan.
• 8:06
  I was going to do whatever it took to get there, hence the
• 8:09
  bankruptcy. I was willing to go bankrupt.
• 8:12
  Well, and I think that's a good point.
• 8:14
  I mean, like in my own experience, like Mike was
• 8:15
  alluding to, I mean, I was just working in house as a graphic
• 8:18
  designer and because of a layoff, I'd been doing some
• 8:21
  freelance work on the side or whatever.
• 8:23
  But because of a layoff, it was like, OK, well, I guess I have
• 8:25
  to make this work now. Like I've got a young kid at
• 8:28
  home and we're married and we've got a house payment and like,
• 8:30
  hey, I gotta make a living. So, you know, so all of a sudden
• 8:34
  you start to build that business that, you know, you were, you
• 8:36
  know, letting you know, kicking down the road or whatever, or
• 8:39
  would have in my, in my case, I would have never been brave
• 8:41
  enough or bold enough to take the step right.
• 8:43
  And I, and I, although you, you, you know, I appreciate you for
• 8:46
  admitting to that because most people won't even admit to that.
• 8:48
  They won't, they won't. They sit there.
• 8:50
  I'll build a business going to do tomorrow.
• 8:51
  Well, no, you know, they won't even admit to themselves.
• 8:53
  They're just too scared. And I don't blame them.
• 8:55
  It is scary shit and it's hard and it sucks and you're actually
• 8:59
  going to get beaten up way more than you'll celebrate.
• 9:02
  But that's the price you pay to be a business owner.
• 9:04
  That's the price you pay for freedom, for it to have more
• 9:07
  money than most people make in a lifetime.
• 9:09
  So you, you you quit A200K year job or more plus yeah, whatever.
• 9:15
  Yeah, yeah. And start this business.
• 9:17
  What is this business? What?
• 9:19
  Yeah, well, that's not embarrassing.
• 9:21
  Yeah, I'll sell my so It's, it's funny, you know, I, I'd like 4
• 9:27
  failing businesses in that one year.
• 9:30
  And it was just what I saw was I saw this trend of the Internet,
• 9:34
  Internet marketing influencer kind of coach, you know,
• 9:38
  industry. And I saw this trend happening.
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  And this is again, this is 1314, like 2014 fifteen.
• 9:43
  So there was already, you know, there's always, there was
• 9:46
  already the people that started in the 08 and 09, but I knew in
• 9:50
  my heart, I was like, I wasn't late.
• 9:53
  It was late, but I wasn't super late, not like people trying to
• 9:56
  get in today, right? So I was like, this is an
• 9:58
  opportunity for me to get in there because that's all I kind
• 9:59
  of knew. So I, it's all I really went
• 10:01
  down. That's all I started to learn
• 10:02
  and study and, and, and try to understand was like marketing
• 10:05
  funnels and all this stuff. And Needless to say, the first
• 10:08
  one was like Kvon University, right?
• 10:10
  And then there was like Epic Life.
• 10:11
  It was all these different types of products that I was trying to
• 10:14
  sell, mostly my brand, right, like being a marketing marketer.
• 10:19
  And what happened was I just kept investing dollars and oh,
• 10:22
  people promised me this. People promised me that, you
• 10:25
  know, the course is this that, and next thing you know, a year
• 10:28
  later, I was $150,000 in debt. I was seven days away from
• 10:33
  bankruptcy. I had like no idea what I was
• 10:36
  going to do, but I knew I was not going to give in.
• 10:40
  Like there's just no way that I could go back to the corporate
• 10:43
  world. Like what a failure that would
• 10:45
  have been. So what happened was when I was
• 10:48
  standing in line, literally standing in line trying to wait
• 10:51
  and to be like, all right, this is it, let me go sign
• 10:53
  bankruptcy. I remember the books I read, I
• 10:57
  remember like in the, in the books of success and like think
• 10:59
  and grow rich, it tells you like there's going to be moments that
• 11:01
  like you are going to be put on the line, you're going to be
• 11:05
  pushed. You're going to be like, you're
• 11:06
  going to have all the reasons why you need to quit.
• 11:09
  You don't quit, you keep moving forward.
• 11:11
  So I was thinking to myself, this must be that time.
• 11:14
  This has to be that time. So instead of moving forward in
• 11:17
  line, I moved backwards, left the bank and I kind of started
• 11:19
  walking home and thinking well what am I going to do?
• 11:22
  So I went online and I was like hey, I need to find a mentor
• 11:25
  here in Vancouver because all these mentors online, they
• 11:27
  didn't give a shit. They all been stealing my money.
• 11:29
  I need someone I could see in person and sure enough found a
• 11:31
  mentor and had a call with him and he says yeah I can help you
• 11:35
  $30,000 I'm bankrupt, I don't have $30,000 but give me 3 days.
• 11:41
  Why? Because my dream of me becoming
• 11:44
  the man I wanted to be was so more it was more powerful than
• 11:48
  my fear of failure. So what happened was I did what
• 11:53
  the books tell you, pick up the phone.
• 11:55
  What did we read about? Like, you know, Kentucky Fried
• 11:57
  Chicken? How many no's did he have?
• 11:58
  You hear all these stories? Well, why can't that be my
• 12:00
  story? Luckily for me, it was only 2727
• 12:03
  people. I called on the 27th, which was
• 12:05
  an old pharmacist at the time. I said, hey, listen, here's my
• 12:08
  dream, here's what I've been doing.
• 12:10
  I've been failing, you know, you know how it is as a business
• 12:12
  owner, I need 30,000. Would you be willing to, you
• 12:15
  know, lend it to me? And the on the 27th, the guys
• 12:18
  like I've always believed in you cave on no problem here.
• 12:21
  Next day, send it to me. Next day I send it to the to the
• 12:24
  to the mentor. The mentor comes to me and goes,
• 12:26
  you know what your problem is? I'm like what?
• 12:27
  He's like, you're not a marketer, you're a salesperson.
• 12:32
  Yeah, there's a difference. I just gave you $30,000 for you
• 12:37
  to tell me that I'm a fucking salesperson.
• 12:39
  I know I'm a salesperson. I spent 25 years in sales.
• 12:43
  You don't need. I didn't, you know what I mean?
• 12:44
  So what he didn't, but what I didn't know, because you don't
• 12:46
  know what you don't know is that, well, now that's what my
• 12:49
  business is built off of, right, Is high ticket sales is instead
• 12:53
  of being the guy that's worried about the Facebook ads and the
• 12:55
  funnels and the copies and the e-mail and the content, he'd
• 12:58
  just go instead of trying to be the man, go close for the man.
• 13:00
  And I said what that like that's a thing.
• 13:03
  Two days later I found a job. Resourceful, right?
• 13:07
  You don't lack resources, you lack resourcefulness.
• 13:09
  I, I was, I had nothing. So I was on.
• 13:12
  So I went on a Facebook group, someone said high ticket sales,
• 13:15
  applied for the job, didn't know it was actually someone of
• 13:17
  significance, $20,000 offer within 30 days.
• 13:20
  I was making 30 grand before that, 25 days before that, I was
• 13:24
  losing $25,000 a month trying to pay for people to do my ads and
• 13:28
  my copy. You know all that, all those
• 13:29
  expense, how fast I can add up. 30 days later I was making
• 13:34
  $30,000, zero expenses. I was like, Oh my God, this is
• 13:38
  phenomenal. And then the next month, 40 and
• 13:42
  50 and about 3-4 months after, the same mentor came to me and
• 13:45
  said, do you think we can teach this?
• 13:47
  I said, hell yeah, we can. And he said, OK, great, you go
• 13:50
  build it. We'll I'll do the marketing and
• 13:52
  you do everything else and we'll make this happen.
• 13:53
  Little did we know we had plans of doing like a couple 100 grand
• 13:56
  a month. 18 months later, we are $38 million.
• 14:00
  Wow, wow. Yeah.
• 14:02
  Yeah, trained over. We had, we had over 15,000, like
• 14:06
  you know, we're trained 15,000 people in 100 / 100 different
• 14:09
  countries. Oh.
• 14:11
  Wow, ended up becoming. Well, it's incredible, but
• 14:16
  there's one thing in there that I, I want to maybe focus a
• 14:18
  little energy on and maybe we can just talk about for a
• 14:19
  second, which is this sort of notion.
• 14:21
  I'm not sure what to call it. I don't want to call it
• 14:23
  manifesting or anything spiritual or weird like that,
• 14:26
  but it's like there's there's this phenomenon of the squeeze,
• 14:30
  which is shit's gone really bad. We're getting crushed.
• 14:34
  I have to make a decision, but somehow I overcome anyway.
• 14:37
  And what's interesting about it? So like in your situation, you
• 14:40
  were down to your last dollar. You were ready to sign away your
• 14:42
  life on this bankruptcy deal. And then you picked up the
• 14:45
  phone. You made those 27 calls.
• 14:47
  Theoretically, you could have made those 27 calls a year
• 14:49
  prior. You could have.
• 14:50
  I mean, there was nothing new in what you did, right, outside of
• 14:54
  the fact that you were forced into a box where you had to
• 14:56
  innovate. And I think that there's
• 14:57
  something to that. And I don't know how we can, you
• 14:59
  know, maybe label this or, you know, turn it into something
• 15:02
  that people can use. But this is a situation that I
• 15:04
  think of people, a lot of people feel, which is I'm up against
• 15:07
  the wall. I'm gonna miss my bills this
• 15:09
  month. I'm gonna, you know, whatever it
• 15:11
  is, right? Whatever their situation is.
• 15:13
  But there's this superhuman ability to overcome that stuff
• 15:16
  if you let it happen. Right, if you let it happen, I
• 15:20
  think a little bit of it is that burning desire within #1 for me
• 15:27
  again, I can't express this enough.
• 15:28
  Like I don't have mommy and daddy that were saving me.
• 15:31
  I didn't have friends that were saving me.
• 15:32
  Like there was it was me alone. Like, So what are your options?
• 15:36
  Like if even logically, what were my options?
• 15:38
  Most logic people be like, oh, we'll just go to work, spend
• 15:41
  another 20 years paying back the debt you just put yourself into.
• 15:44
  Put my like I at that point, I'm like, no, like I've already
• 15:47
  missed this boat of save every penny and I don't.
• 15:49
  And you know what I learned in my in that in that year too, is
• 15:53
  save a penny. At the end of the day, it's just
• 15:55
  a fucking penny. You don't get rich by saving
• 15:58
  money. You get rich by making money.
• 16:00
  So I go, OK, well, you're never going to make money if you're
• 16:03
  working for someone. So like, for me, it was just
• 16:05
  like, I can't, it wasn't even an option.
• 16:07
  It was a burning desire in me. The success that I had in my
• 16:09
  eyes that I wanted in my future that I knew to be true, just
• 16:13
  didn't know how to get there. I had no idea what it was going
• 16:16
  to be. I just had a burning desire to
• 16:18
  know that I'm capable of it. I'm deserving of it.
• 16:21
  It's Bob next door has it. Why can't I have it?
• 16:24
  Does Bob know something? I don't know?
• 16:25
  So I just got to go figure out what the hell that is, you know,
• 16:28
  and we're still figuring out every single day what the hell
• 16:30
  that is, right. Like you never get to the
• 16:31
  answer. It's always just, you know, it's
• 16:33
  all, it's a, it's, it's an ever game of, of, of learning.
• 16:37
  But I don't know what you would call that.
• 16:39
  I just, I call that like no options.
• 16:41
  I call that back against the wall.
• 16:43
  And this thing is there's two different peoples in this
• 16:45
  situation, people with their back against the wall who
• 16:48
  thrive. And they actually only thrive
• 16:50
  ever when their backs against the wall.
• 16:51
  They that's when they do their best work and then the and then
• 16:54
  the other people, the ones that break, they fall, they quit,
• 16:56
  they break, they end up like, you know what I mean?
• 16:58
  They're done. It's like it's over.
• 16:59
  Bye bye. Well, and so I'll give you like,
• 17:02
  you know, in my own life, I mean, luckily I've, I haven't
• 17:04
  been so pressed in a situation, you know, to, to be up against
• 17:07
  the wall of bankruptcy. But there's been no doubt that
• 17:08
  there's been times of financial difficulties, you know, or, or
• 17:12
  whatever going on in life, right?
• 17:14
  And I, I've always said, and you know, this is sort of my light
• 17:16
  take on it, which is anytime I get in a situation like that, I
• 17:20
  sort of just put out into the universe that I need something
• 17:22
  and it sort of tends to come back around, right?
• 17:25
  What's really happening on the back end isn't that there's like
• 17:27
  some little fairy flying around everybody I know.
• 17:29
  But what it is, is it's encouraging me or it's making me
• 17:32
  do the work, right? Like all of a sudden I am
• 17:34
  picking up the phone calls, all of a sudden I am shooting out
• 17:36
  emails. All of a sudden I am reaching
• 17:38
  out to, you know, old leads or, or, you know, past customers or
• 17:41
  whatever. I'm all of a sudden very
• 17:43
  resourceful. And so I guess what I'm trying
• 17:45
  to get to in the in the spirit of maybe turning this into
• 17:48
  something that people could apply in their own lives,
• 17:50
  because I think you're right. And it hadn't even occurred to
• 17:52
  me that some people would break under this pressure.
• 17:53
  And I suppose that's true. Some people will.
• 17:55
  Well, they do. I've seen it right.
• 17:56
  They break and they actually sign it.
• 17:58
  They quit and they go back to work and they live a miserable
• 18:00
  life and they wonder why they're miserable.
• 18:01
  And so, and I don't know, maybe maybe it's just my ego that
• 18:04
  didn't see that. But but the, I guess the point
• 18:08
  I'm trying to make is that there is something in US that, you
• 18:11
  know, we're, we're reacting to an outside force which is
• 18:14
  causing this problem. Or it's maybe the bed we, we
• 18:17
  made, which is we're broke and we're bankrupt and we're trying
• 18:19
  to figure this out. But there's something in us that
• 18:22
  isn't really magic, that isn't really unique that we could
• 18:26
  actually apply anytime, But for whatever reason, we don't.
• 18:29
  And so I'm wondering if there isn't a way that we can look at
• 18:31
  this situation and then maybe pull something out of it, which
• 18:33
  is how could we apply the things that we do under that pressure,
• 18:38
  but apply those things anytime. Does that make sense?
• 18:40
  Well, you go back to the basics, you go, you go.
• 18:43
  You start doing the things that are hard that nobody wants to
• 18:46
  do. Like you said, you start picking
• 18:47
  up the phone, you start working on the things that you that that
• 18:51
  actually move the needle, not the things that are easy that
• 18:54
  you think will one day move the needle.
• 18:56
  What I mean by that, right, is it's so easy for us to go to the
• 18:59
  things that we love and work on the things that we're naturally
• 19:02
  good at and, and, and then we get mentally lazy or we kind of
• 19:05
  procrastinate on the things that we're not good at.
• 19:08
  Sometimes those things that we're not good at are the things
• 19:11
  that the business needs are the things that we need for our
• 19:13
  success. We're just not willing to do
• 19:15
  them. And you know, and sales is like
• 19:17
  picking up the phone and dialing dollars.
• 19:19
  People rather rather wait 3-6 months to figure out marketing
• 19:24
  versus just pick up the phone. The easiest, fastest way to
• 19:27
  cash, pick up the phone and dial for dollars.
• 19:29
  I remember like, I mean, one of the best advices I've got from
• 19:32
  mentor, There's two things that came out to me.
• 19:34
  First one was, I live by this, I live by this golden rule for so
• 19:38
  many years. What are you willing to do in
• 19:40
  the next three to five years that most people won't in order
• 19:45
  to live a life that most people will never have?
• 19:49
  What are you willing to do? Most people are not actually
• 19:51
  willing to do what it takes. They're not actually willing to
• 19:53
  do the things that make the hard decisions.
• 19:57
  How many people like, you know, I mean 40 year olds that I know,
• 19:59
  50 year olds that I know, they're still living under mommy
• 20:01
  and daddy's spell, meaning they still validate.
• 20:05
  They're still looking for the validation.
• 20:06
  Mommy and daddy. Mommy and daddy say I got to
• 20:08
  work this job, so I'm going to work at this job.
• 20:10
  Mommy, daddy said I shouldn't buy a car, I should save my
• 20:12
  money. So I'm not going to buy that
• 20:13
  car. And yet they want to do life of
• 20:15
  greatness. Like you got to outlive your
• 20:17
  parents, man. You got to outshine your
• 20:18
  parents. I don't care if your parents are
• 20:19
  even wealthy or not. If your parents are wealthy,
• 20:21
  great outshine them, right. Like for me, I didn't have that
• 20:24
  big of a bar loving mom and dad. They did the best they could the
• 20:26
  circumstances they had. But like, I knew very quickly at
• 20:28
  a young age that I wasn't, I was not subscribing to that story,
• 20:32
  not under my watch, right? And then the like, then I said
• 20:37
  that said the little things, those little things that people
• 20:40
  don't want to do. So in my case, like, dude, did I
• 20:42
  want 30 days prior to have to make that phone call?
• 20:46
  Hell no. Why would I want to make that
• 20:48
  call? Like that car, those calls suck.
• 20:49
  They're hard. There's many other things I can
• 20:52
  convince myself that are more important, but when it came to
• 20:55
  it, I had no option. I had to make those calls.
• 20:59
  And sure enough, what happens? You get the success.
• 21:02
  An example, I'll give you an example.
• 21:03
  You see this in in because I used to be a sales trainer.
• 21:06
  So I used to say this in in in real estate offices.
• 21:10
  So January is always a funny time for real estate agents.
• 21:14
  Why? Because what do they do in
• 21:16
  December? They took December off.
• 21:18
  They spent all the money and they got all these bills.
• 21:20
  So what happens is they come into January, they start getting
• 21:22
  their credit card bills. Like what do I got to do?
• 21:24
  Oh my God, I got to go to work. So what do they start doing?
• 21:26
  They start going out there, they start prospecting, they start
• 21:28
  calling, they start doing the business right and then all of a
• 21:32
  sudden their business starts to grow.
• 21:33
  January, February. How does it start turning into
• 21:36
  into deals right? Then what do we got?
• 21:37
  March, April, all of a sudden they go, OK, well, I made my
• 21:40
  money. What do they take?
• 21:40
  They take a vacation and then they come back at the end of the
• 21:44
  vacation and they go, Oh my God, I got my bills.
• 21:46
  And they do this up and down. And at the end of the at the end
• 21:49
  of the year, they just decide I don't want to be a real estate
• 21:50
  agent, I want to be a mortgage broker.
• 21:52
  As if it's going to be the grass green on the other side.
• 21:54
  And why? It's because they stopped doing
• 21:56
  the thing that got you busy. And that's what most people do
• 22:00
  when you stop doing the one thing that got you busy because
• 22:03
  what got you busy is not always fun.
• 22:06
  It's not always easy, it's challenging and we think that
• 22:11
  we've outgrown it. We think we're better than that.
• 22:15
  I, I see a lot of business owners, even people in my
• 22:17
  situation where like I'm in sales, I have a whole team that
• 22:20
  should take my calls, but I still take sales calls because
• 22:25
  IA don't want to lose it, right? Because if you don't use it, you
• 22:29
  lose it. And BI got to lead as you know
• 22:31
  and be an example. And more and more important than
• 22:33
  3 is I want to still be able to control my income.
• 22:36
  I'm not going to rely just on others to control my income.
• 22:39
  I got to do that hard work. I don't enjoy it all the time,
• 22:42
  but I do it because I know it's necessary.
• 22:45
  I used to be a mortgage officer. There you go.
• 22:48
  Officer back in the day and when I first got into it, it was
• 22:53
  pretty, it was, it was easy like it was right in the time frame
• 22:58
  in 2006, 2007 before the crash. And everyone had eight, 910%
• 23:05
  interest rates. And we were doing streamline
• 23:08
  refinances for VA home loans. And 90% of the time I could call
• 23:12
  them up and say, hey, you got a VA loan, we're going to hook you
• 23:16
  up. We're going to drop you from 8%
• 23:17
  down to 4 1/2 because that was the, the deal right there.
• 23:21
  And cut their mortgage payment in half, get them a little cash
• 23:24
  on the end. I'll get my 2 points.
• 23:26
  It'll be great deal all all the way around, right?
• 23:29
  2008 comes around, dries up, goes completely yeah, the
• 23:35
  everyone had already kind of done the refi thing.
• 23:38
  Everyone had had kind of gotten settled in and the only income
• 23:41
  coming in would be from new home buys.
• 23:44
  And so this, you know, where I could have a list and just call
• 23:48
  people and, and get them into it.
• 23:50
  That doesn't work anymore. So it for me to get income
• 23:53
  coming in, I had to go and network with Realtors.
• 23:56
  I had to go to meetings, I had to go and do all this stuff that
• 23:59
  I wasn't having to do before. But you know, if if you want to
• 24:03
  stay in that industry, that's what you got to do.
• 24:05
  You have to do like again, Do the things you don't want to do,
• 24:08
  right? What are you willing to do?
• 24:10
  Most people won't in order to live life, most people never
• 24:13
  have. Most people at that point left
• 24:15
  the mortgage industry because it was like what happened was you
• 24:17
  were on a trend. Trends are easy.
• 24:19
  And this goes back to being a character.
• 24:21
  This goes back to entrepreneurship.
• 24:22
  This goes back to having character, my sports day,
• 24:26
  winning the game when things were easy.
• 24:29
  Having character is pretty easy when you're winning the game.
• 24:32
  Real character is built. When you've lost the game is
• 24:35
  when it's you by yourself on the field.
• 24:37
  When, when, when everyone's gone home.
• 24:40
  And what happens is people get into these trends, like so that
• 24:43
  that was a trend in, you know, O six O 7.
• 24:45
  You can come in, you can be an idiot and still made millions of
• 24:48
  dollars. But what happens when that trend
• 24:51
  stopped and now the real work happens?
• 24:53
  How many people left that industry because they were not
• 24:56
  actually willing to do the work and they didn't even know the
• 24:57
  work and they didn't even know how to become professional.
• 24:59
  They didn't know actually had to build the business.
• 25:01
  They just, they just got into an awesome trend.
• 25:03
  They saw an awesome trend. So that was easy.
• 25:05
  But trends don't last forever. Yeah.
• 25:07
  So what happens after the trend goes away?
• 25:08
  The. Guys that left so because it was
• 25:11
  it was the day job, it wasn't my passion, you know, it wasn't
• 25:14
  something I was really into and so once it dried up I wasn't had
• 25:19
  I stuck around, I'd probably be a lot better off these.
• 25:22
  Days, but you know, it's like you know in hindsight.
• 25:25
  It was the trend, yeah, You know.
• 25:26
  But but you didn't stick around because you're like, freak, I
• 25:29
  didn't have to do all this hard work.
• 25:30
  And I'm just, I'm assuming I didn't have to do all this hard
• 25:32
  work last year, Man. This is a lot of our work.
• 25:34
  And you said big key is you're not passionate.
• 25:36
  Yeah, and if you're not passionate, you're going to, how
• 25:38
  are you going to find energy when you when you have a burning
• 25:42
  desire and when your vision is so clear of what you want?
• 25:47
  You don't need coffee. You don't need Red Bull and
• 25:50
  Monster because your vision will outrun all of those things.
• 25:55
  But if your vision or your clarity or your, whatever your
• 25:58
  passion is is isn't clear and you're not running off that
• 26:02
  fuel, that's when you burn out. That's why you need, you know,
• 26:05
  you got to, you figure out things start not working because
• 26:08
  you're not in alignment. There's so many things that give
• 26:11
  us reasons to leave. So I shouldn't say things.
• 26:14
  What are things? There's so many business
• 26:15
  opportunities, there's so many investment opportunities,
• 26:18
  there's so many different layers of business and avenues that I
• 26:21
  can run down on any given single day to try to increase my
• 26:25
  income. But I know that if I'm not
• 26:28
  passionate about it, number one, or it's not my Forte #2 or it's
• 26:32
  not like something that I even want to put time or energy into,
• 26:36
  doesn't matter if John's making millions doing it, I'm not going
• 26:39
  to make millions doing that because it's not my alignment.
• 26:42
  It's not alignment with who I am.
• 26:43
  It's not for me and a lot of people don't know that.
• 26:46
  Like that goes to the whole grass is greener on the other
• 26:48
  side. I'm sure you guys heard this.
• 26:49
  The grass isn't greener on the other side.
• 26:52
  The grass is green on the side you fucking water.
• 26:55
  Most people are not even water in the side they're on.
• 26:57
  They're just watching Joe water his, mow his, water his, take
• 27:01
  care of his and go, well, that looks good.
• 27:03
  I want his. Even if you went over there, you
• 27:05
  wouldn't have green grass because you wouldn't water it,
• 27:07
  you wouldn't mow it, and you would let it fucking die.
• 27:10
  Well, and, and it's not just watering it, it's aerating it,
• 27:13
  it's thatching. It's, it's adding seeds, it's
• 27:16
  adding, you know, the nutrients it needs.
• 27:18
  It's it's a, it's a project, not, not a just a Astroturf that
• 27:24
  you lay down once and it and it's there.
• 27:25
  For no well, that's what people want, the easy you just say lay
• 27:28
  down Astroturf and never have to look, you know, worry about it
• 27:30
  and it's green every single day. Yeah, well, and that's actually
• 27:33
  a good metaphor for what you were saying earlier, right?
• 27:35
  Talking about what are you willing to do?
• 27:37
  You know, because, I mean, there is the version of it that Mike
• 27:39
  just described, you know, very technically, which I wish my
• 27:42
  neighbors were listening and, you know, would take care of
• 27:45
  their their lawn a little bit. But then there's the version of
• 27:47
  people that are just sort of, you know, maybe we could call
• 27:50
  Astroturf the trend, right? I mean, this is people sort of
• 27:53
  just doing the easy version of it.
• 27:55
  And that'll get you by for a while.
• 27:56
  You're gonna have great Astroturf, and it's gonna last
• 27:58
  until the sun beats it to death in 20 years, and then you're
• 28:00
  gonna have to replace it. But that's the easiest version
• 28:02
  of owning a lawn. And so, but the result you get
• 28:05
  is probably not near as satisfying as the guy who spent
• 28:08
  all day out really harvest, you know, working on his lawn and
• 28:10
  spending the time, you know, nurturing these plants and
• 28:13
  helping it, you know, grow. And then, you know, being able
• 28:15
  to stand back at the end of the day and just cross his arms go,
• 28:17
  you know what? Damn it.
• 28:18
  My yard looks awesome. So I'll give you I'm going to
• 28:20
  give you an example to a real example of that in in business.
• 28:23
  So when I was younger, again, didn't come from a lot of money.
• 28:26
  I always had this dream, right? I had this dream that I was
• 28:28
  going to marry a rich girl and her dad is going to be in
• 28:31
  business and he's going to take me under his wings and show me
• 28:34
  the ropes so that I can do the same because I always wish I had
• 28:38
  that right. And I remember telling my and I
• 28:40
  was got you got to understand I would I had conviction
• 28:43
  underneath that more than a courtroom.
• 28:44
  Like that was the dream. OK.
• 28:47
  And I remember when I first met my first mentor like 2223 and I
• 28:51
  was telling him that's what I'm going to do Da da, da, da, da,
• 28:53
  da da da. And I've been telling me feeding
• 28:54
  myself the story since I was like 9 or 10 years old, right?
• 28:57
  And he and I remember him just shaking his head like it was in
• 29:01
  disgust. And he looked at me and he's
• 29:02
  just like, you don't want that. And I'm like, it was the first
• 29:07
  time ever someone ever said that to me.
• 29:08
  What do you mean I don't want that?
• 29:10
  And he said, I'll tell you why he goes because at any given
• 29:13
  day, any given time, it could be taken away from you.
• 29:18
  You go down that path, you would will not sleep and we won't have
• 29:22
  one nice sleep when you're 40 or 50 because they can be taken
• 29:25
  away like that, I said. But you go and you go build it
• 29:31
  yourself. And I'll tell you it's going to
• 29:33
  be hard and you won't get there as fast as you want and you
• 29:36
  won't get there as fast if someone was going to give it to
• 29:38
  you. But you'll get there.
• 29:40
  And when you do, nobody can take it away from you, because it's
• 29:44
  yours. Yeah, no, I like that a lot.
• 29:47
  And I. Was like, and I was that was a
• 29:49
  wake up. I was like, whoa, whoa, well.
• 29:52
  It's funny, and I just kind of wanted to add on to that too,
• 29:54
  this idea that, you know, dreaming our dream, setting our
• 29:57
  goals, identifying what's actually our dream versus the
• 30:01
  dream of others, right? And I think this is especially
• 30:03
  pertinent today, like with social media and all that stuff,
• 30:05
  it's really easy to get caught up in what other people are
• 30:07
  doing, right? Whether it's looking at the
• 30:08
  neighbor's yard and being jealous and wanting that grass
• 30:11
  is always greener kind of attitude.
• 30:13
  But, and maybe it's just amplified by social media.
• 30:15
  But there's I think a component of this where it's you have a
• 30:18
  vision in your mind or you created a dream around what
• 30:21
  you're looking for that's based on hitting some certain
• 30:23
  endpoints, having some financial stability, married to some hot
• 30:27
  chick, all the things that you're looking for in life.
• 30:30
  But the, you know, the reality is that might not really be your
• 30:33
  dream as much as it is, you know, maybe the end of your
• 30:36
  dream. Right, like you're.
• 30:37
  Busy dreaming somebody else's dream, which is oh, well, I want
• 30:40
  in your life, I want you. You've already got the money.
• 30:42
  You've already got all the stuff.
• 30:43
  I want your dream. You know your life.
• 30:45
  Yeah. Instead, you're not.
• 30:46
  You're not really focused on what it is that you really want
• 30:48
  or what you really need to achieve that.
• 30:50
  Well, because those people don't.
• 30:52
  Most people actually don't even know what they really want.
• 30:54
  They think they know what they want, but they don't actually
• 30:56
  know what they truly want, and they don't know what they're
• 30:58
  willing to fight for it either. Yeah.
• 30:59
  And that was sort of what is maybe hoping to get into with
• 31:01
  you a little bit is sorting to, you know, trying to parse out
• 31:04
  some of this stuff, right? Sure.
• 31:05
  Trying to identify goals that are meaningful to us and uncover
• 31:08
  our passion in a world that's so messy, right where we're really
• 31:12
  wrapped up in in what's happening everywhere else and
• 31:15
  not paying that much attention to what's happening in our own
• 31:17
  backyard. And and so I wonder if you had
• 31:19
  any thoughts about that? Yeah, I, I do.
• 31:21
  I got a lot of thoughts because again, I've gotten coaching on
• 31:23
  it myself. And one of the things that it's
• 31:25
  funny is most people say I want, I want, I want 20 million.
• 31:28
  I want 30 million. And because I want to live this
• 31:30
  lifestyle, right? Whatever it might be, right?
• 31:33
  And then if you actually speak to them and you and you break it
• 31:36
  down and you realize they don't even actually know what they
• 31:38
  like, how much money they actually need to live the
• 31:40
  lifestyle they want. So I always tell people like, if
• 31:44
  you have a vision of the lifestyle you want 10 years from
• 31:47
  now, whatever, five years from now, yesterday, whatever it is,
• 31:50
  write down in detail all the things that you actually want.
• 31:55
  And then you go and you actually figure out what the price is for
• 31:58
  all these things. And you'll actually realize they
• 32:01
  don't need as much money as you think you do to live that
• 32:05
  lifestyle you want. Because at some point, as you
• 32:07
  guys know, it's just become. That's when people say, and I
• 32:11
  hate when people say this money doesn't bring you happiness,
• 32:14
  that poor people say that or such rich people who are
• 32:18
  miserable, they've always been miserable, say that.
• 32:20
  But reality is bullshit. Money can bring you happiness
• 32:23
  because you know what? I've had poor people's problems.
• 32:25
  I've had rich people's problems. And I would take rich people's
• 32:28
  problems any single day over poor people's problems.
• 32:30
  Fact. And money doesn't make you an
• 32:32
  asshole. You're like you.
• 32:35
  Money amplifies who you are. Like you're just like I, I grew
• 32:40
  up, I'm not going to mention the name, but I grew up with a kid
• 32:42
  who was an he was an asshole at 10/11/12.
• 32:45
  I mean a prick, one of those pricks you hate, but you still
• 32:47
  like he used for some reason has his magnetism to him, right.
• 32:50
  And he was fortunate in life and built $120 million company and
• 32:54
  he became the biggest asshole of all time.
• 32:57
  And people were like, oh, he's changed ever since he's been,
• 33:00
  you know, became had money. I'm like, no, he hasn't.
• 33:03
  He's the same prick as he's always been.
• 33:04
  He just he's allowed to be more of a prick because he has more
• 33:06
  options to be a prick with in the do right.
• 33:08
  Like it's like, don't don't confuse those things, right?
• 33:11
  And now we're talking money, but happiness isn't just always
• 33:14
  about money too. It's it's about relationships,
• 33:16
  right? Like people, like people are
• 33:18
  happy with a like a good, a good husband, a Good Wife, have a
• 33:21
  relationship with your kids. You got to figure out what that
• 33:24
  is and what you want. Most people don't know what it
• 33:27
  is. They haven't actually here.
• 33:29
  I'll go a little deep here. They haven't sat down and asked
• 33:34
  those questions to themselves and to us.
• 33:36
  You want to call it the universe, whatever and and ask
• 33:38
  the questions. What is it that I really want?
• 33:41
  What is it that inspires me? How do I be great?
• 33:43
  How do I become the best version of myself and sit long enough
• 33:49
  till they hear the answer? Yeah, no, I think that's true.
• 33:52
  And I, I just kind of want to add on too.
• 33:54
  So I did do an exercise kind of like what you're talking about
• 33:58
  in terms of sort of trying to establish lifestyle, right?
• 34:00
  Because I think it's really easy for people to go, well, I need
• 34:03
  $100 million easy. Yeah.
• 34:04
  But people don't really know what that means, right?
• 34:06
  It's kind of like listening to the news.
• 34:07
  We gave a billion dollars to so and so.
• 34:09
  Well, it doesn't sound like much when you say a billion dollars,
• 34:11
  but it's a lot of money. That's a lot of money.
• 34:14
  And so, you know, so in in my own life, I did this.
• 34:17
  Actually, I think it's Tony Robbins has like a free app or
• 34:20
  something that you can do this little exercise in, right?
• 34:23
  It'll do some rough math for you.
• 34:25
  So you just plug in what you want a house, what you think
• 34:27
  that cost car, what you think that cost, you know, whatever it
• 34:29
  is you want. And I put together kind of this,
• 34:31
  you know, I mean, it's a a nice life, but it's nothing too
• 34:34
  fancy. You know, it's like a a regular
• 34:36
  house and then a small house in another country, you know, a
• 34:39
  fancy sports car and then just sort of some stability around
• 34:42
  bills, right. And so in my head, I had put in
• 34:44
  put down, I need like 20 million bucks in the bank.
• 34:47
  And so, but after doing the calculations in his system, it
• 34:50
  said basically, well, you need like 4 and 1/4 for the rest of
• 34:53
  your life. So it's like, I mean, now
• 34:55
  granted, 4 and a quarter million is not peanuts.
• 34:58
  It's not, It is definitely more achievable.
• 35:01
  It is not 100 million. Yeah, absolutely, because the
• 35:04
  goal is also right. It's all, but we're talking
• 35:06
  about now a little bit goal setting too.
• 35:08
  If you set a goal and you're not can, I mean, there's so many
• 35:11
  ways to set goals. But like one of the one of the
• 35:13
  things I've always learned about setting goals is that they're
• 35:15
  setting a scary goal that still insight excites you.
• 35:18
  It's just scary. And then they're saying setting
• 35:20
  a goal is so audacious that you have no feeling towards it
• 35:22
  because it's not real. You don't even make it real for
• 35:24
  yourself. You'll never achieve it.
• 35:26
  And that's The thing is like Tony Robbins talking about Tony
• 35:28
  Robbins, what does he say? We overestimate.
• 35:29
  We can do one year, we underestimate what we can do
• 35:31
  five year. We over we over achieve, we
• 35:33
  overwrite our goal, what we think we can achieve in one year
• 35:35
  and we don't actually write goals that we can little micro
• 35:38
  goals that we can achieve and Swatch our success, right?
• 35:40
  We have just one big goal, but we have no idea of how to get to
• 35:42
  the goal. A goal is fine, but you have a
• 35:44
  plan for the goal. Do you have a plan, the steps on
• 35:46
  how you're going to get to the goal?
• 35:47
  So sure, you it's 4.5 million. OK, great.
• 35:49
  Now we've established that I need 4.5 million.
• 35:51
  What's the what's the plan, not the goal.
• 35:53
  What's the plan, the strategy for you to get there?
• 35:55
  How are you going to acquire that?
• 35:57
  How are you going to earn that income?
• 35:58
  What are you going to invest in all these things that again,
• 36:00
  people are not they don't it's not rocket science.
• 36:02
  Some of this stuff is rocket science.
• 36:04
  Shit shit Jack GPT will help you.
• 36:07
  Just go in and start having a chat with JPT.
• 36:08
  You'll have a better chance to tell.
• 36:10
  Me about his his morning using ChatGPT and programming this
• 36:15
  morning, yeah. Yeah, I became a web developer
• 36:17
  this morning using. You did, Yeah.
• 36:18
  There you go. Right.
• 36:19
  Don't underestimate that man. AI talk about trends.
• 36:23
  Really. Yeah.
• 36:23
  I mean like I literally was able to spin up an application with
• 36:26
  APIs and a back end server all running and working and did it
• 36:30
  entirely with ChatGPT. Just.
• 36:32
  And you know what's so funny? The.
• 36:33
  Programming for this page blah blah blah.
• 36:34
  And I was able to build it. It's pretty wild.
• 36:36
  You know what's so funny about ChatGPT 3 people don't whatever
• 36:38
  for whatever. I don't care.
• 36:39
  Cloud is call it AI. Only like 15% of Americans are
• 36:44
  using it right now. Yeah, I live in a world where if
• 36:47
  you're not you like basically on our team, we did this last year.
• 36:50
  We said if you're not using this, you're going to get fired
• 36:52
  basically like we like ridiculous that you wouldn't be
• 36:56
  using such a tool like this, right.
• 36:58
  But I still meet people today that don't even they they think
• 37:01
  it's something and it's not like they think going in a Jack GBT
• 37:05
  is like building a website or something.
• 37:06
  They're like, how do you use it? I'm like, are you, Well, how do
• 37:09
  you do you go on Google and type in what is on Google?
• 37:12
  That's the same thing, right? They don't even they don't
• 37:15
  understand it because again, they've shut their brains.
• 37:17
  It's just scary. We just, we live in this world,
• 37:19
  right, where we only want to live in what we can see, not
• 37:22
  what we can't see. And like, I know great.
• 37:25
  Like I, I right now going through my transition, it's
• 37:27
  interesting. This is going to be a document.
• 37:29
  I can't wait to listen to this in 20 years.
• 37:30
  I'm going through my transition where I'm asking the question is
• 37:33
  like, what can't I see? I don't care about what I can
• 37:36
  see. I want to know what I can't see.
• 37:38
  I want to start out like I'm asking people what are the
• 37:40
  questions that I'm not asking because that's what we know.
• 37:44
  That's not only where greatness, you know, they say on comfort
• 37:46
  zone is, but that's like not just where greatness is, is, is
• 37:50
  is developed, but that's where like the new life, the new
• 37:53
  version of you. That's where opportunity and
• 37:55
  abundance and this, this higher being, I believe is.
• 38:00
  And we don't know when we, if we don't even tap into or even
• 38:03
  start realizing it, you're just going to live this life of what
• 38:06
  you think you know. And I know that I know nothing.
• 38:10
  Nothing. When you, when you start going
• 38:13
  down the education path and listening to audiobooks,
• 38:16
  listening to podcasts, listening to, you know, studying the topic
• 38:20
  and trying to get better at it, like at whatever the topic is,
• 38:24
  whether the math, audio engineering, software
• 38:27
  development, whatever. You don't know what you don't
• 38:29
  know until you learn it. And once you learn it, then then
• 38:33
  the Sky's the limit and you it's just a matter of picking a topic
• 38:37
  and picking something that is relevant to you means something
• 38:41
  to you and you enjoy. And once you figure that out and
• 38:44
  you can it going to college. When I went back to college for
• 38:47
  audio engineering, it was like I was excited to get up every
• 38:51
  morning and go to class. So I was excited to to what I
• 38:54
  was going to learn that day. Whereas before, when I was
• 38:57
  taking generals and didn't know what I wanted to do, didn't know
• 39:00
  the path I wanted to go down, getting up was a slog.
• 39:04
  I'd sleep through class it it barely do the bare minimum.
• 39:08
  It was just pointless and when you have a purpose and when you
• 39:12
  have that bullseye to aim for. That burning desires.
• 39:15
  Everything. It it completely changes
• 39:18
  everything. One of the things I want to I I
• 39:20
  wrote this down. I think I don't know how we can
• 39:22
  get into it. I don't want to transition too
• 39:24
  much, but we're talking about I you're because you're talking
• 39:26
  about. I know we're trying to like like
• 39:29
  applicable things like where like is an entrepreneur where
• 39:31
  they can, how can people actually do things or change
• 39:33
  things in their lives? Are are you have you are you
• 39:35
  familiar with like the the the bee do have concept?
• 39:39
  I know I haven't studied it. Yeah, so so the idea of like if
• 39:43
  you know, like a little circle, big circle, you know, circle
• 39:45
  around and the bigger circle around it, right.
• 39:46
  So the biggest circle is have the medium circle is is due.
• 39:50
  And then the in the core is like you, you be you become right.
• 39:54
  Well, most people live, and I've learned this because I was that
• 39:56
  person is once I have X, then I'm going to do X and then I
• 40:03
  become X, the key. In success in business and life,
• 40:09
  it's the it's flipped. It's I have become this and as a
• 40:14
  result of becoming this, I'm doing the things of this.
• 40:18
  And because I'm doing the things of this, I now have so watch the
• 40:23
  whole people wait, you know, people wait, wait till you have
• 40:26
  to do so. I'm going to wait to be a better
• 40:29
  man for my kids and my wife and my health.
• 40:32
  Once my business is at a level. So then I have that time to do
• 40:36
  that bullshit. You don't need money.
• 40:39
  We're going to talk about happiness, talk about what you
• 40:40
  want in your life. That's why it all came out.
• 40:42
  But you don't need money to be a great husband.
• 40:45
  You don't need money to be a great father, a great mother.
• 40:47
  That's a decision you can make today.
• 40:49
  I was talking to a woman earlier today that wanted to, to, to
• 40:52
  lose weight. I know nothing about losing
• 40:54
  weight. So I want to be very clear on
• 40:55
  this, but I, I, it just same thing.
• 40:58
  And I can tell in her, I could tell in her energy in her eye
• 41:01
  that losing weight was just an idea.
• 41:04
  It wasn't something she was actually committed to.
• 41:06
  And because I, I kind of related to smokers, You'll ever meet
• 41:09
  someone who quit smoking, they'll tell you right away, it
• 41:12
  wasn't a patch, it wasn't hypnotism.
• 41:15
  It was, it was they woke up one day and they decided they're no
• 41:18
  longer a smoker trying to quit. They're just not a smoker.
• 41:23
  It's a self identity. I'm no longer a fat person
• 41:26
  trying to lose weight. I am not fat.
• 41:30
  Right. Yeah, No, I think there's
• 41:32
  something to this in that. And I I've sort of sort of
• 41:36
  attributed it to to. Fear factor.
• 41:38
  It's already not trying to be rude, I just.
• 41:40
  No, no, no, you're great. No, the so, but I think that
• 41:43
  there's this thing that people do, which is basically saying
• 41:46
  stuff feels like doing stuff. So like to the point about this
• 41:50
  woman that you were just talking to, so she was saying I want to
• 41:52
  lose weight. Yeah.
• 41:53
  And saying I want to lose weight, stating my intention.
• 41:55
  Putting this thing out there feels like I've done something
• 41:58
  right. So now at the end of the day, I
• 41:59
  can go, oh, you know what? I said I was going to lose
• 42:01
  weight today. You know, that's awesome.
• 42:02
  I did my thing, you know, whatever it was.
• 42:04
  And then tomorrow I'll, I'll do the same thing.
• 42:06
  I'll tell everybody I'm going to lose weight again and that'll be
• 42:08
  my thing. And I'll get my little positive
• 42:10
  affirmation from the person who goes, oh, hey, great job, Wendy.
• 42:12
  That's going to be awesome. I'm looking forward to it for
• 42:14
  you, you know, so I'm getting my my satisfaction or I'm creating
• 42:17
  this loop by simply saying a thing and then I'm getting
• 42:20
  feedback on it. Again, not to rag on social
• 42:22
  media, but I think this is a lot of social media too.
• 42:25
  Is we say a thing or we go post on Twitter or, well, X or
• 42:28
  whatever it is, we go and we post because we feel like we've
• 42:32
  done a thing. Yeah, to Mike's point, exactly,
• 42:34
  You know, hey, big thing coming around the corner.
• 42:36
  Pay attention. Huge never come, but we should
• 42:38
  never. Have it doesn't matter, but but,
• 42:40
  but I said there was a big thing.
• 42:41
  So I've done something right. I've gone out and I've I've
• 42:44
  announced our big thing. You know, now what's the big
• 42:45
  thing? I don't know, we'll figure it
• 42:46
  out another time, But you know, it's like, and so I think that
• 42:49
  there's something to that. And you know, I mean, it has to
• 42:51
  do with mindset and, and all this other stuff.
• 42:53
  But I think that we trick ourselves into thinking we're
• 42:56
  doing something. And I think it's a little bit of
• 42:58
  this idea of kicking stuff down the road, right?
• 43:01
  We never actually have to commit.
• 43:02
  We never have to do the scary thing.
• 43:04
  We never have to do anything. We can just kind of say stuff
• 43:08
  and keep kicking it down the road and it feels like we're
• 43:10
  doing work. Well, again, it's all I always
• 43:12
  ask people. I don't care how busy you are is
• 43:14
  how productive are you? Yeah.
• 43:16
  And the most successful people aren't busy, they're productive.
• 43:19
  Yeah, well, you can. Yeah, and I can say.
• 43:21
  Busy, busy, busy. Busy.
• 43:22
  Yeah, busy. Busy doing that day, doing
• 43:24
  things that don't serve you if you.
• 43:26
  Don't accomplish anything. If you're just checking e-mail
• 43:29
  to check e-mail, then you know, like.
• 43:32
  It's not working. For the purpose, yeah.
• 43:34
  Well, and I can share like sort of from a life experience or
• 43:37
  what's going on right now in my life, I can sort of speak to
• 43:39
  this a little bit, which is that I've taken a role.
• 43:42
  I mean, I run a design agency. We've been in business like 20
• 43:46
  years. Like, you know, this is the
• 43:47
  thing we do, but out of, you know, I, I got involved early
• 43:52
  with a tech startup and now they've asked me to sort of come
• 43:54
  on full time in this capacity of product manager, you know,
• 43:59
  director of product management slash VP, kind of whatever.
• 44:02
  And so I'm doing this thing and I'm, I'm overseeing a couple
• 44:05
  departments. Well, I've never built software
• 44:07
  and this is a tech company. I've designed software, I've
• 44:09
  designed UI's and things like that, but I've never, you know,
• 44:11
  built software. But now I'm being asked to run a
• 44:13
  team of developers. I've never ran a product team,
• 44:16
  but now I'm being asked to run a team of product, you know,
• 44:19
  folks. And then I've never done well, I
• 44:21
  mean, I've run marketing. And so I'm also running the
• 44:23
  marketing team on on their team. And so now I'm doing all this
• 44:26
  stuff. And what I'm finding is that,
• 44:28
  and, and for me, this is a measure that stuff is happening
• 44:31
  or that I'm learning is that I'm exhausted at the end of every
• 44:33
  day. Yeah.
• 44:35
  And so when I was just doing the the agency and I've been doing
• 44:37
  it for all these years, you know, you fall into your moves,
• 44:40
  right? These are the things we do.
• 44:41
  This is how we do business, blah, blah, blah.
• 44:43
  It doesn't really register, right?
• 44:45
  I mean, like, it doesn't take it out of you, I guess I should
• 44:47
  say. Well, no, because again, you're,
• 44:49
  you're genius. You're.
• 44:50
  Actually, well, I've developed the skills for that and it's
• 44:52
  easy. For me to do.
• 44:53
  Right. Yeah.
• 44:53
  So to sort of, you know, many of points we've made throughout
• 44:56
  this conversation, you know, this has really pushed me into a
• 44:58
  new realm where I'm having to learn a lot of new things.
• 45:02
  I'm having to manage people that are supposed to be expert in
• 45:04
  stuff that I'm not expert in. I'm supposed to, you know, be,
• 45:08
  you know, learning how to, to do all this really technical stuff
• 45:11
  that I've never had to do before.
• 45:12
  And I'm finding it's really rewarding, but to the point that
• 45:14
  Mike was just making about just doing stuff for the sake of
• 45:17
  doing stuff. I don't have the knowledge
• 45:20
  enough yet to know if what I'm doing is actually useful, right.
• 45:24
  But what I do know is that I've got some short term goals and
• 45:27
  some long term goals that, you know, for, for me involved in
• 45:30
  this entity, you know, I have some incentives to accomplish.
• 45:34
  So if I can actually get it done, like it'll be really great
• 45:36
  for me. And so, so I'm having to try and
• 45:39
  set goals around something I don't understand.
• 45:41
  Right. But so this concept of thrashing
• 45:43
  and making sure that we're being productive, not for
• 45:45
  productivity's sake, but working against something or actually
• 45:48
  putting it towards a goal goes back to what you were talking
• 45:50
  about earlier, which is, you know, sort of establish what is
• 45:53
  real and then work backwards from there versus, you know,
• 45:56
  sort of just putting out into the environment.
• 45:58
  Oh, yeah, no, I'm building an app.
• 45:59
  I'm building a thing. It's really cool.
• 46:00
  A good exercise you could do because I've gone, again, a lot
• 46:03
  of business coaching in this one.
• 46:05
  I yeah, I dread this exercise, but it's really show you what's
• 46:09
  going on in your life is for two weeks, you just take a toll of
• 46:14
  what you're doing every 15 minutes.
• 46:17
  Ouch. Every 15 minutes you write down
• 46:20
  what you're doing and over 2 weeks you go look at that.
• 46:23
  And then you ask yourself is that is that is that the
• 46:27
  activities of, of whatever you know, your position is of a, of
• 46:31
  a, you know, of a $10 million person, $100 million person.
• 46:34
  And you'll, and you'll see very quickly a lot of those
• 46:36
  activities could be outsourced, get your time back.
• 46:40
  And then you saying you don't know if you're doing well or
• 46:43
  not. But then you said, you kind of
• 46:44
  figured, you said you have goals like, well, if you don't have
• 46:47
  KPIs, you know, a lot of people don't even know what a KPI is.
• 46:50
  But like, you got to have something to measure what
• 46:52
  doesn't what it doesn't get measured, doesn't get improved.
• 46:55
  Yeah. Right, So you got to have
• 46:57
  measures that you have and many goals, not like, hey, I want to
• 47:00
  do $1,000,000 this year in this no, like weekly, right, weekly,
• 47:04
  monthly, daily goals that you have.
• 47:06
  And are you meeting those goals? It's very simple.
• 47:09
  Yes or no? There's no yeah, but if it's a
• 47:12
  yeah, but it's a no, in my eyes, it's a yes or no.
• 47:15
  Did you meet this goal? Yes or no?
• 47:18
  Yeah, but I I didn't exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:21
  I kind of yes or no. I, I kind of want to change
• 47:27
  topics for a second 'cause I, I was listening to this podcast
• 47:31
  the other day. I think it was the Prof G
• 47:34
  podcast or Pivot, one of the two.
• 47:38
  And they were interviewing this guy about talking to people,
• 47:45
  just having conversations and how the upcoming generation is
• 47:50
  so used to everything being online and with COVID and with
• 47:56
  everything that happened where we got locked down and we
• 47:58
  couldn't go out and interact. There's kind of like this almost
• 48:03
  upcoming generation of kids that don't know how to talk to people
• 48:07
  and knowledge connect, even have just basic conversations.
• 48:11
  And they're to, to the point where in some colleges they're
• 48:14
  actually having like classes to teach people how to, how to
• 48:18
  talk, how to have conversations. And in sales, I mean, that's,
• 48:23
  that's a critical thing. You have to be able to, to meet
• 48:27
  a stranger and have an hour long conversation with him like we're
• 48:30
  doing right here. Do you have any insights on
• 48:35
  striking up that conversation? Getting the, the for for some
• 48:40
  people, just knocking on a door and talking to a stranger is the
• 48:43
  scariest thing on earth. Can you?
• 48:46
  Maybe I mean, there's two different things right at that
• 48:49
  point, like if someone has a a way of, of telling someone some
• 48:55
  certain secret sauce to get them to strike up a conversation,
• 48:58
  good on them. Like, you know, I call bullshit
• 49:00
  on it. At some point it's you just got
• 49:02
  to do it again. It comes down to just doing
• 49:04
  that. But but when you do that, so I
• 49:07
  want to talk like, Hey, you know when you jump, you know what
• 49:09
  happens then? Well, in sales I tell my I'll
• 49:12
  tell you this is when you put a when you put yourself first,
• 49:17
  you'll end up on the bottom. When you put your prospect
• 49:20
  first, you always end up on top. Just in a conversation normal
• 49:24
  everyday you don't get a conversation.
• 49:25
  If you make it about you, you will lose the conversation.
• 49:29
  If you make it about them, you will win.
• 49:31
  He who asks the questions controls the conversations.
• 49:35
  If you're not getting the the results you want, 10X your
• 49:39
  questions. So what does that mean?
• 49:42
  How do we bring that to everyday person?
• 49:43
  How do we bring these to these college kids learning how to
• 49:45
  have conversations? Well, ask questions, get
• 49:48
  curious. Don't be selfish.
• 49:51
  Don't make it about you. It's not about you, it's about
• 49:53
  them. Don't think it's all about you.
• 49:56
  You know the saying I love? I've heard this saying so many
• 49:58
  times. I love it.
• 49:58
  And at 20 years old, we care about what everyone's thinking
• 50:02
  about, right? We care about what everyone
• 50:04
  thinks about us. At 40 years old we stopped
• 50:08
  caring what other people think about us.
• 50:10
  And at 60 we realized no one actually gave a fucking shit.
• 50:14
  Right? So like, these are things I
• 50:16
  learned. We laugh at these.
• 50:17
  This is a difference between me and other people.
• 50:19
  We all, most people laugh at this and they forget about that
• 50:22
  and they move on their life. I don't like that sits with me.
• 50:25
  That's something I think about all the time.
• 50:27
  So when I'm, when I find myself in fear of judgement or I find
• 50:31
  myself worried about what other people think, that's that's what
• 50:35
  I remember. It's just really going to matter
• 50:37
  at 60. And I don't need to be 60 to
• 50:39
  know that answer. I'm pretty smart to know that,
• 50:42
  like absolutely not. So those things it, it, it, it,
• 50:46
  it, it prevents me to actually do the shit I need to do in the
• 50:49
  day and actually do the things that scare me back to connect.
• 50:52
  And I kind of got off site here back to, you know, having a
• 50:54
  conversation. It's sad, it's sad, It is sad
• 50:58
  because because I'll tell you, even myself, I used to be like
• 51:01
  99% extroverted and because of like, I don't even talk about
• 51:05
  it. But because of that, like I
• 51:06
  found myself going even more introverted than ever.
• 51:09
  And maybe because I'm getting older in life or anything, but
• 51:11
  like it's even for me, it's not as like I used to be.
• 51:14
  It's like I had to be out all the time.
• 51:16
  Now I get exhausted when I'm out.
• 51:17
  But if you want to connect and have great conversations with
• 51:22
  people, the most simplest form I can tell it can, I can say is
• 51:26
  you make it about them and you get curious, ask questions, just
• 51:30
  ask questions. Most people get nervous.
• 51:33
  So what do we do? We talk, talk, talk, talk, talk,
• 51:35
  talk, talk. The tick that happens, we just
• 51:37
  talk, talk, talk, talk, stop talking.
• 51:39
  I tell my sales guy this, The less you talk, the more you
• 51:42
  sell. Yeah, I think it makes sense,
• 51:45
  right? I mean, we probably talk just to
• 51:47
  keep people from saying something that might hurt our
• 51:49
  feelings or whatever, right? So we're, we're doing it as like
• 51:52
  almost a defense mechanism, right?
• 51:53
  Or the other one, which is even deeper, is we talk because we
• 51:56
  feel silence. We're not even comfortable
• 51:59
  ourselves in our own silence, let alone a silence now with two
• 52:02
  other people. That 3 second, four second pause
• 52:06
  of nothing that gets people kind of like twitching and nervous
• 52:10
  and they got to say something. Got it.
• 52:12
  And being able to be comfortable in that silence is I, I think
• 52:16
  imperative, especially in, in, in sales in general, because if
• 52:20
  you're asking an open-ended question, you don't want to be
• 52:23
  the first one to, to reply. You want them to think about it
• 52:26
  and have an answer. And then you can spin off of
• 52:29
  that and go from there. But just having the ability to
• 52:34
  sit in silence and, and think about it, lots of people they'll
• 52:39
  like in a, in a conversation like this, for example, they're
• 52:41
  just talking for the sake of talking.
• 52:43
  They're not listening to what the other person's saying.
• 52:45
  And when you listen and you have intent and you can pause and
• 52:48
  think about a response, it makes that the conversation that much
• 52:52
  better. It's not just.
• 52:54
  So as my wife always says to me, when we are fighting, I'm
• 52:57
  listening to respond. I'm not listening to hear
• 53:01
  exactly. And those are two what you and
• 53:03
  that's what you just said, Mike. There's very, two very different
• 53:05
  things. You're right.
• 53:06
  People are just listening and thinking about in their head
• 53:09
  that you know what the next question is going to be.
• 53:11
  They're not actually listening. Now here's the key in sales.
• 53:13
  If you get to a deeper level, my advanced stuff is you don't
• 53:16
  listen to what they're saying, you listen to what they're not
• 53:20
  saying. Exactly.
• 53:21
  That's how you can connect deeper.
• 53:24
  That's why so the other day I, I working with the band, right?
• 53:28
  And I've got this guitar player that in live scenarios, he loves
• 53:32
  to shred and just get really loud and be the center of
• 53:35
  attention. And he doesn't realize that when
• 53:37
  he turns his guitar up, it ruins my mix.
• 53:40
  And it makes it sound like, here's this screaming guitar
• 53:44
  over here. And everything I've done is now
• 53:46
  just out the window because all you can hear is him.
• 53:49
  And I just finished a recording with him and, and we were doing
• 53:54
  some final stuff and he came in and I, I was trying to broach
• 53:57
  this topic of how do I get this feedback and criticism to him
• 54:04
  and say, hey, I need you to kind of do this in live scenarios.
• 54:07
  And I told it to him and I knew it was going to bug him and I
• 54:10
  knew it was going to be an issue.
• 54:12
  And he goes home. And sure enough, an hour later I
• 54:15
  get a text message. Yeah, everything you just said
• 54:17
  was bullshit. It's not Rock'n'roll, it's not
• 54:21
  this, it's not that. And so for two days I'm sitting
• 54:24
  here going back and forth texting him all the
• 54:27
  technicalities of why you need to do this, why you should do
• 54:31
  that, why, why it makes a difference for us.
• 54:34
  And you know, if you want a better quality product in the
• 54:36
  end, yadda yadda, yadda. You know, it's like and text
• 54:41
  message, it just didn't work. Couple of things.
• 54:43
  Finally, I just got on the phone and I called him and I said
• 54:47
  we're going to have a conversation.
• 54:49
  We're going to talk this through like adults and we're going to
• 54:52
  figure this out because obviously I need this and you
• 54:55
  don't want to give it and you want this and I need to, we just
• 54:59
  need to hash this out. And within 15 minutes it was
• 55:02
  hashed out. We had a kind of like a game
• 55:04
  plan. I could feel off his body
• 55:06
  language and, and tone and his voice.
• 55:08
  Whereas with the text message, I could, I would be trying to be
• 55:11
  like, this is not my intent. I'm not trying to piss you off,
• 55:16
  but it, it's going across that way.
• 55:18
  Whereas if you jump on the phone, you have a conversation
• 55:21
  or even better, do it in person over a beer, you're going to
• 55:24
  have that much more connection and that much more empathy for
• 55:29
  each other versus just a text message, you know, waiting for a
• 55:33
  reply. So it's funny you, you say that
• 55:36
  because that was like, I now my life, like if I even sense for
• 55:41
  millimeter of energy that anything could get
• 55:45
  misunderstood, like because of tax, I call the person because
• 55:48
  you can sit there and waste time, money and energy going
• 55:50
  back and forth trying to no matter what, no matter even if
• 55:54
  you're trying to have all the good intent.
• 55:56
  It's it doesn't matter what you say.
• 55:59
  It's matters about how they perceive what you say.
• 56:02
  Most people don't, or I said it this way.
• 56:04
  I had all the good intent. I said it.
• 56:06
  So it doesn't matter. You clearly take responsibility.
• 56:10
  You clearly didn't say it in a way that they understood it and
• 56:12
  perceived the way they needed to perceive it.
• 56:14
  Right. So that's a huge one.
• 56:16
  I want to talk to you about something else though, because
• 56:18
  this is what you said to me is like, I believe, I thoroughly
• 56:22
  believe in sales and in life is everything you get is direct
• 56:24
  reflection of the results you, of the results of what's going
• 56:27
  on the inside. So if you don't like the if you
• 56:29
  don't like the results in the outside, it's not the outside's
• 56:31
  fault. It's the inside's fault.
• 56:33
  Now you had a hard time with this person.
• 56:37
  Why? Because look at what was already
• 56:40
  what you're, you're, you're already.
• 56:42
  So sales is a transference of energy and connection.
• 56:44
  Communication is a transference of energy and connection.
• 56:48
  Your energy was already wrong. Your energy was already coming
• 56:52
  from a place of he's going to take it wrong.
• 56:55
  He's going to have a part time with this.
• 56:57
  They're not going to work. So think about this, Just think
• 57:01
  about this, the moment I just breaking this down, right?
• 57:04
  I'm not right or wrong. Just just just play with me for
• 57:06
  a bit. The moment you come from that
• 57:09
  energy, So the first word, the first thought you have, where is
• 57:14
  that coming from? Is that coming from a place of
• 57:16
  collaboration or is that coming from a place of I'm already
• 57:19
  going to be defensive. Even though, even though you
• 57:22
  listen, even though you, you cognitively want to have
• 57:27
  resolution and you cognitively want to make sure that this is
• 57:30
  good and you want everyone to be happy.
• 57:33
  It doesn't matter because the core being which nobody wants to
• 57:36
  address the underlying energy. The like, hey, at the core was
• 57:41
  this is going to be challenging. This guy's going to complain and
• 57:44
  all that. But if you change that energy, I
• 57:47
  guaranteed you would have had changed results.
• 57:49
  So I, I, me out of everyone was the person that needed to have
• 57:54
  this conversation with this kid. Because other sound guys in town
• 57:58
  have tried, other people have tried.
• 58:00
  And I have this kind of relationship built up with him
• 58:03
  where we're more coming as a friend versus coming as sound
• 58:06
  guy who he's never met who is just telling him he's too loud.
• 58:10
  And so I've known he's had issues with with this in the
• 58:13
  past with. That it's funny, Mike, I got to
• 58:15
  cut you off here. I got to cut you off here
• 58:17
  because we're going to do this. We're alive.
• 58:18
  We're going to cut you off here. You're already justifying you.
• 58:21
  You just made this all about him.
• 58:23
  Well, this guy already did this. I just said to you, you are a
• 58:27
  direct reflector of the results you got.
• 58:30
  So I oh, he's already did. I got the results.
• 58:32
  In the end. You did, he did, You did I, I'm
• 58:35
  being cheeky. You did get the results you had.
• 58:37
  But what I'm trying to teach people is imagine what happens
• 58:41
  when we come from foundationally.
• 58:44
  Everything we do, everything we say, our intentions, everything
• 58:47
  we put out to the world comes from a different place, comes
• 58:50
  from the actual place of what we want, not what we think we want
• 58:53
  or what we hope to get when we have all this residual effect
• 58:56
  of, you know, residual thoughts of something else.
• 58:58
  Like I want to be rich, but deep down I'm not worthy of being
• 59:01
  rich. Yeah.
• 59:04
  What decisions are you going to be making to become rich?
• 59:08
  You're going to make like decisions that are going to make
• 59:10
  you rich or you're going to make decisions that are going to
• 59:12
  sabotage you from being rich because deep down, you don't
• 59:15
  believe you're worthy of it. I'm not saying this is you and
• 59:17
  Mike. I'm changing the subject.
• 59:18
  I'm not. Yeah, like this.
• 59:19
  This is what I'm talking about. So I always tell people in
• 59:22
  sales, in business, in life, it starts with you.
• 59:25
  Like in it's not about the tactics, it's not about, you
• 59:29
  know, give me the best script. How do I connect with this
• 59:32
  person? If you're not connected with you
• 59:33
  and you don't believe in you and you don't have, if you haven't
• 59:36
  done the hard work on you to grow as an individual and to
• 59:39
  believe that you are worthy of it, believe that you are worthy
• 59:41
  of success. Know that fear will always be
• 59:43
  there, but it's how you handle it and how you deal with it and
• 59:46
  how quickly you deal with is a deterrent.
• 59:48
  Is it? Is it is the decision between
• 59:50
  success or not? Like I always say this to people
• 59:53
  like Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins and you and I all
• 59:56
  wake up with the exact same fears.
• 59:59
  The difference is in the morning.
• 1:00:01
  Tony doesn't let that fear dictate the decisions he makes
• 1:00:03
  throughout the day where most people do.
• 1:00:06
  Most people wait an hour, 2 hours, 3 hours.
• 1:00:08
  Most people don't even realize that they're robbering out of
• 1:00:11
  fear. The quicker the distance between
• 1:00:13
  left and right and the distance between you be on the handle.
• 1:00:15
  That voice and handle that fear is a distance between you having
• 1:00:18
  success. Simple.
• 1:00:20
  Yeah. No, I think that's right.
• 1:00:21
  And I think I if I've got the the point that you're trying to
• 1:00:23
  make about in Mike's case, I mean, obviously Mike had a
• 1:00:26
  relationship with this guy and so he was able to kind of work
• 1:00:28
  with it. And but to your point about sort
• 1:00:30
  of predisposition setting, right, Mike already knew this
• 1:00:33
  guy's had trouble with other people.
• 1:00:35
  He's already, you know, pushed back, man.
• 1:00:37
  It's not rock'n'roll, you know, like all that stuff.
• 1:00:40
  So Mike was going into it maybe with that stuff couched a little
• 1:00:43
  bit. So yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 1:00:44
  Yeah, I'm going to treat you as somebody who's had to overcome
• 1:00:47
  these things. And so, and I'm going to talk to
• 1:00:48
  you in a way because we're friendly.
• 1:00:50
  Yeah, well, part. So part of that's how Mike was
• 1:00:52
  going. To be able to get into was, was
• 1:00:54
  like I told him I was like, I need to be able to have a
• 1:00:58
  conversation with you and I need to be able to provide feedback
• 1:01:01
  and not have you take it critically.
• 1:01:03
  I can't have you walking on egg shells when I'm working with you
• 1:01:06
  because my input and urine pit is critical to getting a good
• 1:01:11
  end product. And when I approached him, I
• 1:01:13
  went up to him and I said, Hey, have you ever, have you ever
• 1:01:15
  thought of using in ear monitors?
• 1:01:17
  And he's like, Nah, and I'm like, you should try it.
• 1:01:20
  I I think if you had in ear monitors, you could totally rock
• 1:01:23
  out and have it loud like you want it, but I could still
• 1:01:27
  control the mix. And I came in with kind of like
• 1:01:30
  a solution before addressing the issue.
• 1:01:32
  And so that was anyways, it was the most recent thing I've had
• 1:01:36
  to have like that in that kind of realm as far as a difficult
• 1:01:40
  conversation or something to overcome.
• 1:01:42
  And that's why it was top of mind.
• 1:01:44
  So it could be in any type of field of, you know, overcoming
• 1:01:48
  an injection, overcoming a not a hostile conversation, but
• 1:01:53
  learning how to have that conversation and not.
• 1:01:57
  Lost him. We lost him here.
• 1:02:00
  We're starting to get to the end here, Kavon, but you have just a
• 1:02:01
  couple minutes that I could have you get into one more quick.
• 1:02:03
  Topic. Yeah.
• 1:02:05
  Probably not quick and maybe we need to have a conversation.
• 1:02:08
  About it. I also want to make sure people
• 1:02:09
  know that I love Mike and I was just giving him a hard time
• 1:02:11
  because we're here. So, MM, we love you.
• 1:02:14
  Yeah, no. So what I want to talk about and
• 1:02:16
  you actually touched on this really early in the
• 1:02:18
  conversation. I made a note here to talk about
• 1:02:20
  it, but you just sort of landed on it again.
• 1:02:22
  And so it seems like something that maybe is important to you,
• 1:02:24
  which is this idea of sort of overcoming biases or the pre
• 1:02:27
  programming that we get from other people in our.
• 1:02:29
  Lives to sort. Of help dictate the way that we
• 1:02:31
  approach sales, approach business, approach life,
• 1:02:33
  whatever it is. But there's a, a, a thing that
• 1:02:37
  seems to happen and, and the example you used earlier was
• 1:02:39
  that it had to sort of do with your parents or maybe trying to
• 1:02:42
  live up to your parents expectation.
• 1:02:43
  And so there's this, this bit there where we're sort of in our
• 1:02:47
  parents shadow or maybe whoever braised us or maybe some
• 1:02:50
  influential friend or whoever. But we're sort of in in their
• 1:02:53
  shadow or we sort of act in a certain way to try and
• 1:02:56
  accomplish whatever it is that we think they would want, right?
• 1:02:59
  And so this goes back to our earlier discussion about dreams
• 1:03:01
  and stuff like that. Well, you just sort of landed on
• 1:03:03
  that again with this conversation with Mike, right?
• 1:03:06
  And that what you're really trying to overcome is what's
• 1:03:07
  inside you. And then you'll be better
• 1:03:10
  equipped to deal with the outside world, right.
• 1:03:12
  And so I wondered if just sort of in closing here, I mean, I, I
• 1:03:15
  realize this could probably be a whole podcast in itself, but you
• 1:03:18
  know, do you have any pointers or any ideas or, or things that
• 1:03:20
  people can use to maybe self identify?
• 1:03:23
  Am I living under the shadow of somebody else?
• 1:03:25
  Yeah, I think before you can even self identify that, I think
• 1:03:28
  you got to educate yourself on knowing it's like where where
• 1:03:32
  does all this come from? Meaning like from zero to 6.
• 1:03:35
  Science proves this isn't fufu Anything this is, you know, is
• 1:03:38
  there's when your subconscious has been is born like the most
• 1:03:41
  of of what, what the decisions people make at 40 or 50, at 6080
• 1:03:47
  or 20, whatever age you're at, they're making it from your zero
• 1:03:51
  to 6. They're making it from your 6
• 1:03:52
  year old self. Most people don't even know
• 1:03:54
  that. So like first is go do the
• 1:03:56
  research and understand what where your subconscious comes
• 1:03:59
  from and how, how all the stuff that we that happens in the
• 1:04:04
  world today, all the marketing we're having all like, I mean, I
• 1:04:06
  want to get into all the political stuff that's happening
• 1:04:08
  that all that is, is brainwashing our subconscious.
• 1:04:11
  Now you're conscious, if you're subconscious to think, act and
• 1:04:15
  do in an order in a fashion that the power above whatever you
• 1:04:19
  want to be, the people in power want you to be.
• 1:04:21
  So like, if you can't even accept that it doesn't matter.
• 1:04:24
  Like if you can't, if you don't understand that that's actually
• 1:04:26
  a real thing that's happening, then anything I tell you after
• 1:04:29
  this doesn't matter because you're close mind to it, right?
• 1:04:31
  Growth mindset, fixed mindset, the whole thing, you're shut off
• 1:04:34
  to it. Now, if you're going.
• 1:04:36
  Yeah, I believe that to be true. OK, great.
• 1:04:39
  So now probably go do the work and figure out how was your
• 1:04:41
  upbringing like? What were the what were the
• 1:04:43
  values that were given to you? What were the things like when
• 1:04:45
  like that you're like, you're I will never change this.
• 1:04:48
  Write those things. This is exactly who I am.
• 1:04:50
  Write those things down and ask yourself, whose idea was that?
• 1:04:54
  Where did you get that idea? Is that mom's that dad's?
• 1:04:57
  Do you like that idea? Do you only like the idea
• 1:04:59
  because because mom made you, you know, dad put their
• 1:05:03
  bullshit, their generational bullshit on to you, right?
• 1:05:08
  And that's deep called deep work, right?
• 1:05:10
  As you know the. Concept of that somebody told me
• 1:05:13
  about, or actually this guy Chris Doe talked to me about,
• 1:05:16
  it's more to do with, you know, negative self talk and things
• 1:05:19
  like that. But there's this thing called
• 1:05:20
  the critical inner voice. Yeah.
• 1:05:22
  And basically the concept is that a lot of times when you're
• 1:05:24
  tearing yourself down, you're actually, you could hear it in
• 1:05:26
  somebody else's voice, you know, a parent or a friend or a, an
• 1:05:29
  enemy or something. Yeah.
• 1:05:31
  And you know, like I, I know people who, you know, were maybe
• 1:05:34
  given a hard time as a kid, you know, because of their weight or
• 1:05:37
  something. And then they see that person
• 1:05:39
  30-40 fifty years later and it still triggers that feeling,
• 1:05:42
  right, that emotion. And so every time they look in
• 1:05:45
  the mirror and they go, Oh, well, I, I don't look good in a
• 1:05:47
  swimsuit, it's because their mom said, hey, you don't look good
• 1:05:50
  in a swimsuit back when they were a kid or.
• 1:05:52
  Something. And some of that's us imposing
• 1:05:54
  it maybe on a parent or that's how we took our parents vibe.
• 1:05:56
  But to your point, you know, the way we were making decisions in
• 1:06:00
  a lot of cases is, you know, maybe not our own voice, but
• 1:06:03
  it's we're behaving in a way that we were sort of taught
• 1:06:05
  early. On SO, we're programming.
• 1:06:07
  To point being aware, and in the reading I did on this idea of,
• 1:06:10
  you know, negative self talk and critical inner voice, you know,
• 1:06:14
  a big part of it really is being aware that it's a thing and then
• 1:06:17
  understanding that you can change it and you don't have to
• 1:06:19
  live with it that way. Yeah, it, it's, it's most people
• 1:06:22
  are not aware. Most people don't even want to
• 1:06:24
  identify. That's the first problem.
• 1:06:26
  Then now, now that you're become unaware, now you just ask the
• 1:06:29
  questions. How how do you change it?
• 1:06:30
  And it doesn't happen overnight either, right?
• 1:06:32
  It's just, again, it's being open.
• 1:06:34
  It's, it's being open to the fact that like there is a fact
• 1:06:37
  that most people are living from their, you know, their six year
• 1:06:40
  old self making decisions while they know that to be true or
• 1:06:43
  not. It's what's happening
• 1:06:44
  subconsciously, what's happening, and that there's ways
• 1:06:46
  that you can actually fix that and you can work on those
• 1:06:48
  things. It's a phenomenon.
• 1:06:52
  I've been working on myself since 2223.
• 1:06:55
  I got my very like, like actually I got into self
• 1:06:57
  development and working on myself and that, you know, over
• 1:06:59
  25 years and I still have a lot to go.
• 1:07:02
  I'll tell you that much, a lot to go.
• 1:07:04
  But it's, it's, it's knowing that and it's, it's being able
• 1:07:07
  to be OK with that as well. A little self love and self
• 1:07:10
  compassion goes a long way. Well, and it's not unlike what
• 1:07:12
  Mike was talking about in his conversation with this guitar
• 1:07:14
  player, right? And giving critical information,
• 1:07:16
  right? I mean, we might hear in our
• 1:07:18
  voice the critical comment of a, of a parent or whomever, but
• 1:07:21
  like, I don't know, I guess if you know, that's what it is, you
• 1:07:25
  know, just like, you know, Mike knew how this guy was going to
• 1:07:28
  react when he said, hey, dude, you got to turn down your
• 1:07:29
  guitar. Like, I mean, we have this, I
• 1:07:32
  guess just by simply being aware, we, we can now prepare
• 1:07:35
  ourselves to respond to it, right?
• 1:07:36
  So I can hear that. Voice in my.
• 1:07:37
  Head and go Oh well, this voice told me that that's a bad
• 1:07:40
  decision, but me conscious me is going.
• 1:07:43
  You know what though? I think you're wrong, you know,
• 1:07:45
  and, and sorry mom, but this time I'm going to go do the
• 1:07:47
  thing I want to do. I try to tell people this is
• 1:07:50
  like when you're approaching things, try like it's very hard
• 1:07:52
  is like you pro like I try to bring no energy to them and
• 1:07:57
  definitely not a bias energy or you know, any bias energy to it
• 1:08:00
  and you'll see that the results are very different.
• 1:08:02
  But I tell people I when I used to live life with expectations,
• 1:08:06
  I used to have expectations. Everything I did actually like
• 1:08:09
  going out, no going out on a Friday night.
• 1:08:10
  I had an expectation it was going to go a certain way.
• 1:08:13
  You know, when I was a little kid, like hanging out over here,
• 1:08:15
  going to a go into to a week vacation there, whatever it was
• 1:08:19
  going to the gym today. I had all these these little
• 1:08:22
  micro expectations or sometimes macro expectations, and I always
• 1:08:26
  felt let down. I always felt like I was always
• 1:08:29
  kind of miserable because things just didn't go my way.
• 1:08:33
  I now live a life like I truly live a life.
• 1:08:36
  I have 0 expectations, 100% commitment and I've been happier
• 1:08:42
  than ever and I'd like and I enjoy Lifeway better than I've
• 1:08:46
  ever have. Like because I don't have
• 1:08:47
  expectations of things I don't. And I'm not saying negative.
• 1:08:50
  I'm not saying oh I'm expecting negative things to happen.
• 1:08:54
  It's just zero. I'm just going to be, I'm just,
• 1:08:56
  it's going to be what whatever's going to happen is going to
• 1:08:58
  happen. I'm not going to expect things
• 1:09:00
  to happen because when they don't go happen, that's when we
• 1:09:02
  start, you know, like beating ourselves up or getting
• 1:09:05
  frustrated and all this negative shit that does not serve us,
• 1:09:08
  does not serve our future, does not serve our present, does not
• 1:09:11
  serve our past, does not serve our family, our friends, our
• 1:09:13
  business, None of that. You were direct like show me
• 1:09:16
  someone's business. Show me the entrepreneur.
• 1:09:19
  The entrepreneur is only as far, like the business is only as
• 1:09:22
  good as the entrepreneurs until obviously the business gets to a
• 1:09:25
  level where the owner or the person who started the business
• 1:09:29
  is no longer there. That's like why we are in a
• 1:09:31
  business where we we're amping up where we want to work with
• 1:09:34
  people. One of our Icps is where we work
• 1:09:36
  with people who are not founder LED anymore because founder LED
• 1:09:42
  organizations make different decisions than ones that are
• 1:09:45
  don't. Yeah, because the founder makes
• 1:09:48
  decisions on his money. Because it is his money.
• 1:09:52
  He makes decisions on all the hard pass shit he had to go
• 1:09:56
  through that got him there. Yep, it makes sense.
• 1:10:01
  I think you're. Right.
• 1:10:02
  Well. Sorry, what was that?
• 1:10:04
  Oh, I just said I think you're right.
• 1:10:05
  No, I know you said that. That's a trip, by the way,
• 1:10:06
  called double confirmation. Well.
• 1:10:09
  And with my Internet jumping in and out, I totally could have
• 1:10:13
  been whatever. Everything's been double
• 1:10:15
  confirmation for Portland. Well, we're kind of at that
• 1:10:19
  point. You want to tell people how they
• 1:10:21
  can get in touch with you and how they can reach out if
• 1:10:23
  they're interested in Yeah in talking.
• 1:10:25
  With you very simple if you're you know interested in anything
• 1:10:27
  to do with sales, all things sales kayvon.com, KAYVO n.com
• 1:10:32
  from there you can get anywhere you need to go to find me.
• 1:10:35
  Awesome. Well, thanks so much Kayvon.
• 1:10:36
  This has been an awesome conversation.
• 1:10:38
  I appreciate. Your time.
• 1:10:38
  Nice meeting you guys. Yeah.
• 1:10:39
  Appreciate it. Absolutely.
• 1:10:41
  And thanks so much to everybody who tunes in this week and every
• 1:10:43
  week, and we'll catch you guys next time.
• 1:10:47
  OK? Just like that.
• 1:10:49
  So cool. Well, thank you for going a
• 1:10:50
  little long, Kayvon. 'S, yeah.