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Ross Fulton Analysis: Ohio State's Offensive Gameplan Against Michigan · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to buck Eyes tomorrow morning for Thursday, December fifth time,
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  Speaker 1: your host Tom Or The Game akers Michigan is in
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  Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty nine days. All right, it is
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  Speaker 1: the show you have probably all been waiting for. I know,
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  Speaker 1: about the middle of the second quarter, I thought, oh boy,
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  Speaker 1: I can't wait to talk to Ross Fulton about the
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  Speaker 1: Ohio State offense this week. Here it is the show
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  Speaker 1: about the Ohio State offense this week with our buddy
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  Speaker 1: Ross Fultonheadle dot com. When we talked to Ross, we
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  Speaker 1: were sponsored by Jeff Rubies of Columbus, proudly offering nationally
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  Speaker 1: acclaimed USDA Prime Stakes, seafood and sushi, impeccable service, live entertainment,
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  Speaker 1: and an attention to detail that is simply unmatched. Just
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  Speaker 1: go to Jeff Ruby dot com slash Columbus today. All right, Ross,
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  Speaker 1: I think we are setting a personal record for most
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  Speaker 1: clips in any show, and so there's gonna be a
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  Speaker 1: lot to get to. But before we get to that,
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  Speaker 1: I just want to ask you the question I was
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  Speaker 1: waiting to ask you from basically the first half of
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  Speaker 1: the game on and I saw a lot of people
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  Speaker 1: asking it online. Okay, what was the deal? With all
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  Speaker 1: the inside running when you knew the offensive line, the
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  Speaker 1: injury of the offfin a High State offensive line was
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  Speaker 1: a work in progress, the interior to the Michigan defensive
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  Speaker 1: line was really good. Did you have as big a
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  Speaker 1: problem with that? And if so or if not, what
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  Speaker 1: do you think the game plan was there? And did
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  Speaker 1: they adapt that soon enough when it didn't really work?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I'd say I have mixed opinions on it.
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  Speaker 2: I don't like the plan, so I'll put that out there.
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  Speaker 2: But the first thing I would say off the top
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  Speaker 2: is I think as we move further and further away
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  Speaker 2: from this game, I think a lot of the focus
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  Speaker 2: is on the offense and what they call it or
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  Speaker 2: didn't call. And the first thing I would say is
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  Speaker 2: but for for really bad special teams plays, two miss
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  Speaker 2: field goals, Traveon Henderson letting the ball bounce in front
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  Speaker 2: of them, and then I'd say the combination of Caleb
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  Speaker 2: Downs not fielding that punt, combined with a very short
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  Speaker 2: punt to follow that set up a Michigan field goal
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  Speaker 2: with zero yards gained by Michigan on that drive.
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  Speaker 3: Ohio State wins that game, right, And.
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  Speaker 2: Then you particularly put that together with to Will Howard interceptions,
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  Speaker 2: take those away. Ohio State wins that game. So none
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  Speaker 2: of that has to do with running the football up
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  Speaker 2: the middle.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So given now that, yes, I.
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  Speaker 2: In one hand, I can see where they were coming
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  Speaker 2: from at different points because Michigan, as we will get to,
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  Speaker 2: was playing a ton of too high safeties. The numbers
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  Speaker 2: were there to run the football. I would say that
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  Speaker 2: Will Howard was struggling at times both, you know, I
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  Speaker 2: think with diagnosing a lot of what Michigan was doing
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  Speaker 2: from those two high looks. Obviously, the interceptions both impacted
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  Speaker 2: the game. I think it impacted his confidence, which we'll
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  Speaker 2: get to, and I think he became less effective after
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  Speaker 2: each interception. And so I think there were points in
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  Speaker 2: time and then you know, because of some of those
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  Speaker 2: special teams whose mistakes or just feel like several drives O,
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  Speaker 2: I say, it was pretty backed up, right, We're going
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  Speaker 2: to show one of those.
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  Speaker 3: You got to take that into consideration.
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  Speaker 2: I think that before the second the missed fielding field goal,
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  Speaker 2: I think at that point, given everything I just listed off,
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  Speaker 2: it's like, let's get our thirteen points here and get
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  Speaker 2: out of here, and this is going to be an
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  Speaker 2: ugly win, but we do not think Michigan is going
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  Speaker 2: to be able to score again on our defense, and
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  Speaker 2: so there is some game control stuff involved in that.
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  Speaker 3: All that's to say though that no, I do not agree.
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  Speaker 3: I do not know.
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  Speaker 2: And we can get into this with some of the
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  Speaker 2: particular plays, like wasn't just running up the middle, Like
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  Speaker 2: clearly they plan to run outside zone a bunch. I
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  Speaker 2: don't know what they saw that they thought that that
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  Speaker 2: was going to work, because you still have to be
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  Speaker 2: able to control those defensive tackles. And I just think
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  Speaker 2: that they they left yards out there by not continuing
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  Speaker 2: to go to the concepts that showed they could work.
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  Speaker 2: And I think, you know, I think we need to
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  Speaker 2: talk about going forward. You know, you have three weeks
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  Speaker 2: now they get a second chance, or maybe want to
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  Speaker 2: call it a third chance. It's pretty much for the
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  Speaker 2: first time in college football history that you the offensive line,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Seth McLachlan and Josh Simmons are not coming back,
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  Speaker 2: so what are they?
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  Speaker 1: You know?
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  Speaker 2: And I'm sure people are going to copy Michigan, So
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  Speaker 2: you got to come up with ways to move the football.
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  Speaker 1: All right, So let's start looking at this game and
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  Speaker 1: let's start with the very first play of the game.
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  Speaker 1: Going back and rewatching the opening drive of the game
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  Speaker 1: in my in the back of my head and going, oh, well,
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  Speaker 1: they're going to certainly going to punch in a touchdown
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  Speaker 1: here as they're just marching down the field. And that
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  Speaker 1: started with the very first offensive play of the game.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what's all the more frustrating is there's
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  Speaker 2: been times this season where High States started slow and
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  Speaker 2: it took them a lot to get going. This this
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  Speaker 2: is actually a good opening sequence for Ohio State, right,
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  Speaker 2: Like they force a punt I think after one first
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  Speaker 2: sound by Michigan, and then they get going and they
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  Speaker 2: come out throwing the football, and so you know, you
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  Speaker 2: expected that to keep going. I think in hindsight, like
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  Speaker 2: you know, obviously hindsight twenty twenty, who knows what happened.
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  Speaker 3: If the whole game it was like, you.
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  Speaker 2: Just get yourself up a touchdown, get up seven points,
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  Speaker 2: and then you can go back to the run game.
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  Speaker 3: They just could never get themselves there.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, this is kind of the some of
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  Speaker 2: the stuff that I find frustrating, given how they open
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  Speaker 2: and then what they went to. But you know, right
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  Speaker 2: away they just run this you know, little backside hitch
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  Speaker 2: off an RPO to Carnel Tait. So you can see
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  Speaker 2: actually this this first play right away shows a lot
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  Speaker 2: of Wink Martindale and Michigan's strategy, at least against the
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  Speaker 2: passing game.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: So you got two ice safeties. What they were doing
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  Speaker 2: a lot of was like it was basically just a
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  Speaker 2: page from what Jesse Minter did last year. You got
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  Speaker 2: Jeremiah Smith as the outside receiver, and so what they're
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  Speaker 2: going to do is roll the coverage to Smith. It's
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  Speaker 2: a you know, this Michigan Ravens defense kind of comes
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  Speaker 2: from Vic Fangio. For those who are interested or like
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  Speaker 2: the forerunner of it, Fangio they call this zeus is
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  Speaker 2: the fancy toaching term for it.
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  Speaker 3: It just means like to the.
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  Speaker 2: Two risks, Like if the guy you want to target,
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  Speaker 2: which here is Jeremy Smith last year, is Marvin Harrison
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  Speaker 2: is like the outside receiver to one side, they're going
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  Speaker 2: to play cover two to that side so that they're
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  Speaker 2: basically having a safety over the top of them. And
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  Speaker 2: then they're going to play cover four to the other side.
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  Speaker 2: So you can do this with split safeties, right, and
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  Speaker 2: so this is just easy RPO hitch against like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: how can the backside linebacker comes down? Now that sort
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  Speaker 2: of stops as the game gets something going on and
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  Speaker 2: we can talk about that, you know, the say the
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  Speaker 2: corner Baiales for cover four deep coverage, just pitch and catch.
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  Speaker 2: I think at that point of the game, I posted
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  Speaker 2: on Blue Sky something like, you know, Ohio State needs
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  Speaker 2: to RPO all game, and unfortunately I can certainly show
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  Speaker 2: instances where they did, but it was too sporadic for
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  Speaker 2: my liking, and I just again, like looking forward, I
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  Speaker 2: just think they need to wear these concepts out, and
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  Speaker 2: like if a team sits on it, you need to
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  Speaker 2: come up with different ones that they aren't sitting on,
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  Speaker 2: or just continue to work at it. You know, there
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  Speaker 2: were times during that game or upon rewatch where the
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  Speaker 2: RPO in terms of like the read was to give
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  Speaker 2: and I was just thinking to myself, Man, I regardless
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  Speaker 2: of the read, I wish Will Howard would have pulled
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  Speaker 2: it and thrown it because who knows it would have happened,
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  Speaker 2: And I'd rather have the football outside. And maybe you know,
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  Speaker 2: Jeremiah Smith or a book or tape makes someone miss
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  Speaker 2: as opposed to just running.
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  Speaker 3: Into the teeth of Michigan's defense.
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  Speaker 1: Well, one of the things that I think I felt
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  Speaker 1: after the game probably limited them to a certain degree,
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  Speaker 1: was they were backed up. They had bad field position
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  Speaker 1: a lot throughout the course of the game. And we
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  Speaker 1: talked about the punt, the bounce, We talked about the
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  Speaker 1: kickoff that bounced. They also, I mean, the good news
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  Speaker 1: is the defense got some stops deep in its own territory,
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  Speaker 1: deep in its own red zone. But that meant the
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  Speaker 1: offense was starting with the ball kind of in the
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  Speaker 1: shadow of its own goal line, and it felt like
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  Speaker 1: they were a little hesitant to get too aggressive when
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  Speaker 1: they were backed up like that. And this is one
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  Speaker 1: of those plays where they were backed up near their
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  Speaker 1: own en zone.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, there's no doubt that played a role.
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  Speaker 2: And obviously, with the exception of probably the short fields
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  Speaker 2: they got off of the you know when right before
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  Speaker 2: the Will Howard intercept, second interception, and then off the
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  Speaker 2: Caleb Downs interception, there's several times when they're backed up
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  Speaker 2: and as you said, so like this is what they
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  Speaker 2: tend to do when they're backed up, right, So maybe
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  Speaker 2: this is a poor example, but I do think it
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  Speaker 2: shows some of like why they could not run the football.
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  Speaker 2: So they're just running like this is not like a
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  Speaker 2: read or anything. This is just like a base block
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  Speaker 2: because the tight end you can see is blocking the
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  Speaker 2: backside defensive end. So it's like just get us out
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  Speaker 2: of here kind of inside zone play. But like again,
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  Speaker 2: Michigan's in cover two here right, like you got two
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  Speaker 2: really deep safeties. The numbers are there to run it's
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  Speaker 2: seven on six, but they can't do it. And so
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  Speaker 2: when you go to the inside view, you can see
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  Speaker 2: there was like a strategy beyond. Just like Mason Graham
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  Speaker 2: destroying Ohio States in Tier three, which happened plenty of times,
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  Speaker 2: what Michigan did, through a different types of stunts and
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  Speaker 2: linebacker blitzes a lot, was essentially create a bearfront right,
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  Speaker 2: So number thirty roller for Michigan here does it. They
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  Speaker 2: do it different ways, but here he just blitzes right
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  Speaker 2: at the center right, so you get Now you've got
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  Speaker 2: three on three, so there's no double teams like this
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  Speaker 2: was the biggest issue for Ohio State zone run game
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  Speaker 2: is they could never get double teams correctly. There was
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  Speaker 2: either either because of the alignment of Michigan or because
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  Speaker 2: of the poor execution by Ohio State in terms of
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  Speaker 2: either not because of the techniques Michigan was using, like
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  Speaker 2: not realizing who needed a double team, or coming off
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  Speaker 2: those double teams too quickly to get to a linebacker
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  Speaker 2: when like in reality, like the first thing you have
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  Speaker 2: to do is like establish the double team and get movement.
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  Speaker 2: Because there were just too many times where they would
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  Speaker 2: someone would come off a double team leaving their counterpart
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  Speaker 2: with Mason Graham, and Mason Graham with throw that guy
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  Speaker 2: like a ragdall, and so that that happened too often.
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  Speaker 2: But here, you know, so yes, Michigan only has six guys,
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  Speaker 2: but there's no double teams, right, so there's no movement
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  Speaker 2: inside Like those three guys from Michigan are controlling Ohio
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  Speaker 2: State center and guards and there's just nowhere. There's nowhere
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  Speaker 2: to go to run the football, you know, like part
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  Speaker 2: of the downside inside zone like run it like this
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  Speaker 2: from the gun is you just can't get to the
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  Speaker 2: front side of the play really, like you can't get
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  Speaker 2: In theory, maybe outside of Josh Friar you could bounce
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  Speaker 2: the ball, it's just really hard to do that. It's
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  Speaker 2: really just a cutback and there's just nothing there because
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  Speaker 2: then they can the nickel can come clean it up eventually.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, so inside zone didn't work, Ross, I think it's
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  Speaker 1: time to try outside zone. This is one and I
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  Speaker 1: was I was looking at this. I'm like, which one
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  Speaker 1: was this because it felt like there were a bunch
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  Speaker 1: of these where Quinchu and Judkins sort of ends up
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  Speaker 1: going east west and ends up with like no gain
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  Speaker 1: or maybe a loss of one.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I will say, like Chip Kelly, particularly like in his
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  Speaker 2: organ days, may this sort of outside zone from shotgun
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  Speaker 2: and by just by shotgun, I just mean the back
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  Speaker 2: offset next to the quarterback instead of like pistol or
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  Speaker 2: under center.
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  Speaker 3: He had a lot of success with it.
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  Speaker 2: It is not my favorite because of this east west
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  Speaker 2: element like stretch We've talked about a lot, right, Like
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  Speaker 2: you're pushing the ball to the edge to create cutback lanes,
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  Speaker 2: and there's just it's very difficult for a guy running
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  Speaker 2: laterally to do that, and Michigan would just string these
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  Speaker 2: plays out. I again, I I guess the theory. You know,
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  Speaker 2: this one's from behind the end zone. They put Smith
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  Speaker 2: and Abuka to the white side of the field and
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  Speaker 2: run to the boundary opposite of that, and hopefully Michigan
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  Speaker 2: rules recovers that way. And I guess they think they
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  Speaker 2: can get outside on these, but like again, like you
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  Speaker 2: still need to create vertical movement on outside zone, and
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  Speaker 2: you know, Graham and Grant would just like just basically
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  Speaker 2: control the interier of Ohio States offensive line and then
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  Speaker 2: just move them right. So they're just the player just
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  Speaker 2: going sideways, but everyone else is going side. So again
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  Speaker 2: you get this sort of bare look right here, it's
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  Speaker 2: Barnum for Michigan blitzing right at the center and pushing
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  Speaker 2: Carson Hinsman backwards. So now again you've got your three
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  Speaker 2: on three. And then you know this just Tiger Chappola,
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  Speaker 2: Like he's played a whole season, so I you know
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  Speaker 2: it's this is not even a new player.
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  Speaker 3: Like his just just continues.
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  Speaker 2: To fail to id things correctly, particularly on zone plays
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  Speaker 2: like he can't.
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  Speaker 3: I don't you know.
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  Speaker 2: I guess he thinks he needs to help out on
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  Speaker 2: Grant because he's in a three technique over him to start,
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  Speaker 2: But like it's outside zone, you got to get lateral
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  Speaker 2: and in staid. He sort of stays there and plants
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  Speaker 2: and kind of whiffs on seventy eight, and then he
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  Speaker 2: has no chance to get to houseman number fifteen for Michigan,
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  Speaker 2: so there's just he can blow it up in the backfield.
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  Speaker 2: So that's like this is obviously an egregious example, but
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  Speaker 2: again it's just like as I was saying, like problems
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  Speaker 2: with double team identification and then sticking to it, like
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  Speaker 2: you're going to double double at least and like try
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  Speaker 2: to create some movement and like, you know, it's better
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  Speaker 2: than nothing, But this sort of like they they kept
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  Speaker 2: finding themselves stuck in between, right, They're like maybe I
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  Speaker 2: should double this guy so I'll get a hand on
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  Speaker 2: them and then get to the second level, and like
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  Speaker 2: you kind of had got the worst of both worlds.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, the other thing I want to note
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  Speaker 2: about this, and we'll see this in the next clip too,
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  Speaker 2: is it's not like to me, like when I go
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  Speaker 2: back to the RPO part, like a lot of plays
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  Speaker 2: were designed too for Will Howard to be able to
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  Speaker 2: keep on zone replays, but Michigan was just more than
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  Speaker 2: happy to sit and like force the handoff, right, so
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  Speaker 2: like here he can actually like he can he's reading
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  Speaker 2: Mason Graham and he's reading guy like Ohio State. You
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  Speaker 2: can kind of see in the edge here like Abuca
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  Speaker 2: and Smith are both sort of blocking. It's essentially like
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  Speaker 2: their arc blocking, and the goal is like get that
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  Speaker 2: guy to break down and then you're you know, crash
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  Speaker 2: inside and then you have lead blockers for Howard. But
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  Speaker 2: as I said Michigan, we'll see again here just more
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  Speaker 2: than happy to force the handoff and let their interior
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  Speaker 2: control the game.
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  Speaker 1: All right, And I promise this is the last bad
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  Speaker 1: run play. After that, we're not gonna let the run
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  Speaker 1: the run game hurt you anymore. We'll have a couple
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  Speaker 1: of good run plays and we'll start talking about the past.
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  Speaker 1: But all right, Ross, one more bad run play for everyone.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we will get two good ones after this,
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  Speaker 2: I promise. And because I'm sure you know you got
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  Speaker 2: to look forward, right, we got the season is not
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  Speaker 2: over there. We need to triage this situation as best
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  Speaker 2: we can. So again, like well, I say, it was
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  Speaker 2: trying to do things, so I don't want to give
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  Speaker 2: the impression like that, Oh, they just ran up the
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  Speaker 2: middle the same way time and again, like there were
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  Speaker 2: strategies oftentimes, it's just that you know the problem with
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  Speaker 2: RPOs and read zone reads and everything else is it's
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  Speaker 2: not a true option in the sense that like if
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  Speaker 2: you force the handoff, you still have to block the
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  Speaker 2: zone play correctly or whatever the front side run play is.
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  Speaker 2: And so Michigan, whether it was RPO, although I you know,
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  Speaker 2: I will caveat the RPO part of it by saying,
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  Speaker 2: like I really think for these reasons, like Ohioti should
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  Speaker 2: have just pushed the RPOs, like keeps throwing the quick game,
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  Speaker 2: the quick throws or the replays. Wanted Howard to get
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  Speaker 2: the ball outside, but that wasn't the read right. So
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  Speaker 2: like here again they run like this double arc, so
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  Speaker 2: you have two tight ends to the bottom and they're
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  Speaker 2: blocking those two guys. And the hope is that you're
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  Speaker 2: reading an interier defensive end and he's going to bite,
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  Speaker 2: and then you have.
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  Speaker 3: Those two blockers for Howard, but he sits right.
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  Speaker 2: This is actually like a again Michigan, Martindale just basically
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  Speaker 2: ran back jesse Mentor's playbook against Ohio State.
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  Speaker 3: Without some of the disguise.
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  Speaker 2: But this is like the two steal we've talked about
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  Speaker 2: a lot from Jim Knowles. Jesse Minner loved running against
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  Speaker 2: Ohio State. So you've got sort of that defensive end
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: at the bottom. He's playing the flat, but he's also
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: available against the run. But you know they forced the
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: football inside again. You can see Mason Graham is left
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: one on one with Tiger Chapola. That is not a
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: good situation for US State. Like Tiger Shabola, I'm sorry
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: to continue to beat up on him, but like, if
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: you're not going to id things well, like you better
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: be powerful at the point of attack at lease. Instead,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: he gets controlled by Graham and then thrown on the
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: ground and there's just nowhere to go. Eventually that Nichol
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: is also able to insert himself against the run. So
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the long and the short of this is that in
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: their current configuration, it's very difficult for any team to
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: lose their two best offensive linemen like that is a
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: situation that with these there's the one position that they
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: could not afford those injuries that occurred, and they're really
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: missing Seth maclachland. But they are at this point not
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: a good zone blocking team because they cannot identify things
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: and establish double teams.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Well, all right, so now we promised you it is
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: going to get a little bit better. Now we're going
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: to move on to two run plays. And I'm going
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: to say two run plays that work, and you're going
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to go, I know which two onnes you're talking talking about,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and yes you do. The first one is that pause option,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to have you just, you know, describe
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: this one, and then I want you to explain why
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: they only ran at once.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: This has been a complaint I've had of regarding Chip Kelly.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: I mean this play in particular, right, Like, yes, it's
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: sort of a counterplay, like you're faking zone and running
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: speed option, so they don't major in this, but the
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: success rate on this play has been so ridiculously high.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: I would like to see Chip Kelly in general spam
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: concepts like meaning keep using them again until the opponent
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: stops them, you know, other than maybe smash and curl
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: flat in the past game, which he like loves to
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: rely on those two, Like he just doesn't really an
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: inside zone obviously, keep going back to things. But you
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: know this is a nice design too, so they go unbalanced.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: You can see I circle it at the top, so gee,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Scott's covered up. They probably expecting that this would get
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Michigan into a single high coverage, you know, that miss
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: to the unbalance, which they do. They go to cover
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: three and so that gets you when you send the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: guy in motion, the one on one block at the
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: our bottom, you don't even have to block him because
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: he's dropping into a deep third and then you're just
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: optioning off the defensive end and getting outside. And so
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: you know, when thinking about going forward again, the key
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: has to be finding ways to get the running backs
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: outside in space.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Again, I don't know, I would love to see them
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: continue to use this concept or you know, there's things
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: they could do with like you know, quarterback run counter
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to the quarterback and bash opposite, which is just like
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: back away.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: You know, the Ravens do that with Lamar Jackson all
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: the time.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: It's very Josh Allen, and you know, it's some very
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: popular NFL play with a when you have a running quarterback,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: because it just gets the running back in space and
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: it just makes for an easier read. They did run
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: power read twice, which is you know, you run power
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: for the quarterback the running back going to the same side.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I don't think Howard read it particularly well either time,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: because it's a little bit difficult to read. And so
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you know this place is just like a simple look
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: at the defensive end, what does he do?
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: Get it outside?
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: But again, like this is the kind of stuff they're
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: going to have to really focus on going forward, because
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I just don't think that they can. Obviously, I you know,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: most teams are not going to have Michigan's defensive tackles,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: certainly not a two of them. But I just I
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: don't think that they can go into a game thinking
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: that they can rely on on basing out an inside
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: zone right now.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: The other thing that I thought watching that was, oh boy,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: well you can say, over the years, how many times
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: have you seen team seen a team run balls option
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: speed option like that and then have the quarterback take
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: two steps forward and then drop back and you know,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: throw a pass out of that as well that it
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: all game along. I was like, well, certainly they must
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: have been setting that up right and then you never
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: saw it, so.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, I agree.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say, in general, I thought
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: there also was a lack of play action passing generally,
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Like there was one time where they got under center
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: and they ran like you know, the two man Yankee
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: concept we've talked about, Like when they got to the
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Michigan forty. And but you know, I remember thinking to
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: myself that that was one of the drives that sowt
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: out like, oh, here comes the play action pass because
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: they're getting under center at the opponent forty, which is
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: where they always run it. So that one was pretty obvious.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: You know, there are other times when they ran outside
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: zone in the backside defensive end tracked them down event
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: like where's the bootlegs?
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: You know, just some missed opportunities there. But yes, to
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: your point.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: That that's the kind of stuff that they're going to
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: have to lean into going forward.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: All right, and the next run and the other good
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: run on the day, this was I think seventeen yards
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: for Quinn Shuhn Judkins, really right up the gut. It
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: was the one time they ran inside and really had
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: notable success all day long.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the irony of this is like this is a
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Jim Harball play. You can find the clips out there
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: of Tim Drevno breaking this down. It's it's a wham
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: concept or like Harball cause it crouch. It's kind of
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: an influenced trap, right, So you're you're basically trapping back
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the tight end is blocked. The defensive tackle, the backside
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: guard is blocking the defensive uh, the other defensive tackle,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: and then you're releasing up on the linebackers like opposite them,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: and you're kind of counting on the the guards pulling
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: to get the linebackers out of position and then creating
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: a crease in between. Unfortunately, so they ran They did
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: run this twice. This is the second time they ran it.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately on the first drive when they kicked the field. Well,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: this was the first down play before they stalled out
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: and Josh Fryer missed a block and Trayvon Henderson inexplicably
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: ran it the wrong way and tried to bounce it
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: outside right where it would never work.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: They they went back to instead of like the demarcation
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: they had had between Juckkins being the standard down back
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: and Henderson being the third down back, they started at Henderson,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: and unfortunately, I think Henderson reverted to some of his
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: worst tendencies in terms of his vision and seeing cutbacks.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: But again, like you know, this is two points, like
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: just like the pause option, Like I think this is
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: the kind of stuff they need to lean into.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Like they're not blocking zone plays.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Well, they did block countertrait correctly one time in this
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: game against Michigan.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: That was positive to see.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: So I think whether The's whams these traps like they
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: ran against Organ, I think they're just going to have
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: to be pretty creative in the run game and use
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: try to use down blocks and kickouts to get where
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: they need to go at least to have, you know,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: some semblance of a run game.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: All right, So now we're going to move on to
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: the past game we did. We did one good play
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: for you earlier, just as little as little taste. We're
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: gonna get the real bad one out of the way
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: right now. This is the first interception that set up
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Michigan's touchdown.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah again, I say it's backed up and and this
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: is what I said to open with in terms of
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I do have some sympathy for them, because
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I don't think Will Howard was seeing things really well
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: against all these split safety looks, you know, diagnosing, particularly
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: like the cover eight stuff where you're playing cover four
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: or once and cover the white side and cover to
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the boundary. You know, I think he struggled with some
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: of his reads here. This is just like a it's
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: like a double seams out, you know. I Don'm sure
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: it's the greatest call right here in terms of the
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: past concepts, and like, I do think that they are
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: in some ways missing some of what Ryan Day brought
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: as a play caller in the past game against some
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: of these split safety looks, I think they've things are
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: a little bit more basic right now. You know, that
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: was one thing we talked about. Chif Kelly like that
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: he is not he has never been to Day's sort
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: of precision as a pass game play caller.
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: But I you know, I do think there are concepts
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: there that would work.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: But this one, I just think like this is kind
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: of emblematic of some of howard struggles in the game.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Like I think he predetermined here that he was going
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to Carnel Tate to the white side of the field.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure why this is like just basic cover
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: four from Michigan and the corner is able to sit
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: on the route like he has. Jeremiah Smith ran the
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: same route to the to the shorter side of the
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: field that I think was a little bit more open.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: But you know, especially like the wind, I know people
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: have sort of dismissed it. I do think you can
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: see it here. You know, whether that gets into a
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: conversation about Will Howard's arm strength, Like this a long
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: throw and I thought it definitely fluttered, which exacerbated But
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: so as I said, they're in a tough situation where
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: not running it well against too high looks. Quarterback was
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: struggling some with diagnosing them. And you know, their philosophy
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: is to be able to run it against too high
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and they weren't able to. But you know, this is
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: not the end all be all, but it is explanation
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: of you know, why don't you want to pass all
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: the time. It's like, well, quarterback's not seeing it great.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: They were getting a lot of pressure in his face
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: even though they weren't getting sacks.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: You know, so there's tough trade offs to be made.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: All right. Next up, I'm going to go to one
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of the drive that really did look like the Ohio's
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: date offense. Really one of two during the first half
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and maybe during the whole game. This was during the
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: two minute drill. This is a nice throw to Carnal
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Tait as they we had sort of just crossed midfield
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: during that two minute drill right before halftime where they
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: scored a touchdown.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this was the driver, like you saw the things
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: that I wish they would have leaned into more a
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: the tempo right, A lot of people have pointed that out.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: You'll see like here I circle, like Michigan still struggling
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: to get in position.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: They've struggled with tempo this year.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Ohio State went to it sometimes they went they were
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: doing it on the opening drive. They just seemed to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: struggle to stick with it. And then a lot of
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: these like quick game slant concepts versus Cover two. They went,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: like the play before this, they went to that levels
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: concept against Cover two that we talked about against Northwestern.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Then they ran double slants, which is a great Cover
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: two play. Then they run this like seam slants, you know,
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: so you run off the safeties in the interior coverage
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: and then you just basically have these one on one throws. Again,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, it was unfortunate that this
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: they didn't keep running these quick concepts in the second half.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: But again, like looking forward, I think this is the
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff they're going to have to do more of.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Like Howard's pretty effective at getting the ball out quickly.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: This gets your you know, your wide receivers the ball
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: in space. I think they need to stop using Smith
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: as such a vertical route runner all the time and
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: get him some of these quick game throws because he's
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: so effective with the ball after the catch. And so
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I think, again, this is the kind of thing These
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: the players that I'm showing that worked are my way
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: of saying, these are the kind of things they need
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: to do more of going forward, because I do think
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: they're going to see a lot more of the cont
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: of the defensive philosophy that Michigan gave him in the playoffs.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: All right, And the last one, this was I think
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a sneaky big play in the game. If you're just
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: thinking through, this is the one where Will Howard is
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: kind of in the pocket and then he rolls right
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: to buy some more time and he finds Carnial Tate
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and Tate can't quite hang on to the ball. This
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: this was I think a sneaky big play that really
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: kind of derailed the game. Would have probably been a
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: first down and instead left them in third and five
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that they didn't convert.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought this was like the last gasp in hindsight, right,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: like when they don't get this. This was the This
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: drive was honestly like rewatching it. Maybe the most troubling
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: because so this came after the second interception, just like
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: a bad read by Howard. They the game was still
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: ten to ten. At this point, I thought, they're going
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: to again. You can see a lot of cover two here,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: or they're you know, you're again getting like the cover
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: two to the Jeremiah Smith side and cover four opposite it, right,
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: so you're getting another cover eight. This is like this
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: levels concept that I just referenced that they ran against
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: North Northwestern like you got and to me, like both
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: these routes are both, these deep dig.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Routes are open.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Like I guess maybe Will Howard would say he had
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: pressure in his face and had to bail. I personally
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: thought he got a little trigger or gun shy. After
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: the second pick, you had this play then you on
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: third down they ran a smash concept and Jeremiah Smith
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: was the corner route. I thought, again he was open,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: and he didn't pull the trigger on that one, and
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: then on the last drive when they were down he
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: would not pull the trigger. But yeah, obviously this so
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: the drop hurts. But I think he could have thrown
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: this in rhythm, as I said, like Michigan was getting pressure,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: and so it's sort of hard to say maybe he
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: felt that, but you know, I think that the more
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the less they can rely on a run game, right,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the more they're going to have to be able to
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: rely on Will Howard hitting throws. And so that's part
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: of why I go to though, like on first down,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: you're going to have to do some more quick game stuff, slants, hitches,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: RPOs sort of keep the chains moving and keep out
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: of these must pass situations.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: So I think the last question I wanted to ask
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: it is just a little more forward looking, and how
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: how much of the issues that you saw on Saturday
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: were really bespoke to Michigan, either just in terms of
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: the rivalry and having the mindset you have to run
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the ball, or just the challenge presented by Michigan's defensive
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: front or something else that really is specific to Michigan.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: And how much of this is stuff that you're going
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: to you know that they're going to really have to
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: work around. You've talked a little bit about ways they
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: can work around things moving forward. How much is Ohio
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: State going to have to reinvent itself in the playoff
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and how much of this was well you had these
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: issues against Michigan, But you know a lot of the
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: teams you're going to face in the CFP are not
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: necessarily going to present those same challenges.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I really hope that this was not
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: a result of Ryan Day listening to the Peanut Gallery
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: saying you need to run the ball to prove you're
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: tough and you have to win the running battle, because
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I just like those narratives are like you win a
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: game by getting yards and scoring points. It doesn't matter
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: how you gain those yards, and so like again, and
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: like I do worry that there's been some Peanut Gallery influence,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Like the special teams is another example, like put Trevion
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Henderson on kickoffs because people can play, and like you
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: need you need to gain yards on kickoffs and like
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: it's like, no, just catch the ball and get the
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: ball to the twenty five. You have a good offense,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Like kickoffs are not kickoff returns are like a very
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: pass a thing at this point in football, you know,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: punt like catch the ball first and so I but
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Michigan's scheme obviously like this you know Fangio Rick or
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: you know mentor scheme here has caused Ryan Dane Ohio
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: State problems for a few years now, like the two
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: high safeties.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: You know, it's pretty complex, it's messed somewhat.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: With what they want to do, and they haven't been
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: able to run the ball against those two high safeties
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: well enough. But obviously that happened two years ago and
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: they came against Georgia and played much better offensively. And
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: so my hope is that, like whatever the issues were,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Ryan days takeaway is like this is our shot. I've
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: got the offensive line, I've got right now, and like
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: we need to just let it loose and go right.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: And I don't care.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I personally could care less if they rush for one
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: rushing yard, like you want to go win the game.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I do think they're obviously for Will Howard's health and
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: the offensive line's sake, like they need to come up
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: with ways to run the football, and I think that's
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: like to be gap heavy and to get them try
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: to get the ball to the perimeter. But I just
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: think that it is again a situation where like I
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: think the offensive line and like the run game in
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: general right like has taken it. Probably maybe with the
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: exception of sometimes versus Penn State, there's been a steady decline,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: and they haven't run the ball very well in the
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: second half of the year generally, and so I just think,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: you know, as I said, the offensive line issues are
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: their injuries are extremely unfortunate. Like that's just a horrible break.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: There's nothing you can do about it. And so I
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: think you just kind of have to You have to
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: kind of use what's there. You got three great wide receivers.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Try to get them the ball quickly out in space
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: and as many different ways as you can.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: All Right, Well, we will have plenty more to talk
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: about on Sunday when we know what's going on with
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: the Ohio State College football playoff situation. Who they're going
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to play, where they're going to play. We'll find that
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: out on Sunday. Before then, we'll try and get your
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: show breaking down the Ohios date defense. That's going to
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: be much better news for the most part. I don't
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: want to spoil the surprise, but much better day for
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: the Ohios ded defense than the Ohio State offense. A
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: little different than some previous Ohio State Michigan games. They'll
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: break that down with Ross little later on this week,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: and when we do, just like today, we'll be sponsored
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: by Jeff Ruby Steakhouse, the award winning upscale steakhouse in
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: downtown Columbus name one of the top fifty steakhouses in
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: America by Food Network. Just go to Jeffruby dot com
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: slash Columbus, check out the menu, and make a reservation
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: for today. That will do it for today. Thank you
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: guys all for joining us.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Have a great day.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to you tomorrow.