Latest / Tectonic Takes / Episode 178: Let's Talk About Gavin Wilkinson...
Transcript
- Tectonic Takes: What's up Quickspans? We are back with another episode of Technonic Takes. A little bit of a more serious mood today. ⁓ I am ⁓ joined as always by my co host Devin. but ⁓ very special guest today, the president of Faultline, President of Science Beak Union and a very good friend of mine in Devin's. ⁓ we have Crystal. Crystal, how are you doing today? I'm ⁓ you know, doing okay considering all things going on. Yeah, I I asked but I knew that the answer wasn't gonna be great. ⁓ but ⁓ obviously the reason for the kind of somber, more serious mood of today's episode is the fact that the earthquakes have ⁓ hired ⁓ Gavin Wilkinson and I'll throw it over to Devin to explain why that's not a great thing. Yeah. ⁓ how long do we have? We we have three how much time as you need. Got the next fifty six hours. it is it is a pretty disdainful day here in in San Jose just for, you know, the fact that we we hired a a man by the name of Gavin Wilkinson. he has a lot of history in this league. ⁓ he did win, I think, the league with the Portland Timbers as GM. ⁓ but there's a lot of a lot of ⁓ controversial history ⁓ behind his his time here in an MLS and it dates back as a and US soccer. And in US soccer, yes. and it started I think with him as a manager, then I think president and then GM and he had involvement with the Portland Thorns and Portland Timbers. ⁓ got fired from both and then went on to sport in Kansas City for a whole eight days fired from that. And now here he is in San Jose about two years later. the reason why his name is so important is because they're in twenty twenty-two, I believe, there was a report that came out called the Yates Report, ⁓ which was, I think, originally reported by The Athletic. ⁓ but it detailed a bunch of cover-up and sexual abuse and abuse in general, which Hurts my heart to say that it even happened in this in you know not just this league but NWSL specifically. but yeah, so Gavin Wilkinson was involved in these with a man named Paul O'Reilly. ⁓ and just to give the readers a heads up of of you know what what's to come, I've written a bunch of notes. I've I've I've tried to ⁓ study up on the eight report just for you guys so you can listen in, understand the importance and value of of why, you know, why hiring a man like like Gavin Wilkinson is not necessarily a good thing for the team despite, you know, having success in in his ⁓ his management days. But ⁓ yeah, anyways, so here's some notes for you guys. ⁓ I say you could be a good manager but you could or GM but you could be a terrible human. the same time. Yeah, exactly. And I think he he fits the second the second piece of that mold there. ⁓ which is not good for an earthquakes fan. So anyways what I found in the notes is his connection to Paul O Riley. And I will notice on on page seven of the Yates report, Paul O'Reilly fixated on players' sexual orientations and targeted players with grooming behavior. That included drinking, late night text, and flirtatious comments about their appearance. Heading into page eight, Riley was fired for cause, but the public announcement indicated that the Thorns elected not to renew his contract and thanked him for this service. Now, why am I suggesting this? Or why am I saying this? Because Gavin Wilkinson was ⁓ I think GM or president at the time. GM. So he was definitely involved in this process and involved in the the the the public ⁓ announcement piece, you know. Well like w just also kinda insert in there ⁓ so he was w interacting with the players and players reporting to him conduct and this is the reaction that he had was what to come. Exactly. And and later on on that page on page eight it says, ⁓ Jeff Plush In an email to ⁓ Giuliati, ⁓ Giuliotti, ⁓ Flynn and Le Levin Levine stated that Wilkinson told Flash that Riley was put in a bad position by the player and that he'd hire Riley back in a heartbeat. So in in that context, that to me shows that he tolerates Riley's behavior and doesn't seem to care about putting the players' safety first or even interest inside players. So when you hire a general manager for a team, you expect them to take care of the players. You know, they are the product for the fans, and if you don't take care of the players, you're not going to have a healthy environment for a club. And it didn't seem like Wilkinson necessarily put anything ⁓ on a player safety basis first. It just seemed like there was a lot of negativity and and self interest at play. ⁓ Well And you kinda downplay I would also add downplaying the what was going on. ⁓ really put it on the player being a problem rather than the coach being problematic. Yeah. ⁓ just real quick. And and another thing to add in in the firing of ⁓ of Riley, it wasn't kind of stated what happened. It like there was so many terrible reasons and and you know, good reasons for him to lose this job. But ⁓ it was not just like ⁓ he wasn't doing good enough in and soccer wise. It was like very serious things that were happening, very inappropriate things, and that wasn't disclosed. It was made to seem like it was almost like, ⁓ well, you know, we just di decided not to go in that direction. Which then allowed him to be hired at clubs later on, which is a huge problem and puts more ⁓ players in danger. Not not you know It also wasn't just like that. It was also he was suggested to be hired too by Wilkinson. Right. Right. And I would I would point out, so say if you anyone's been an employer or employee or you know, had people below them and they were responsible for hiring, ⁓ there are laws that prohibit you saying certain things, but you can tell them you would hire or you would not hire again in the in the future. And so even if he was trying to say cover his butt or whatever it was to not say these bad that you know he was bad with ⁓ you know, the players, he could have just said, I would not rehire him. Instead he did the Absolute inverse and said I would hire him in a second. I believe that was close to what he what he said. It was almost for beta. Yeah. And and you know, the report goes on on page fourteen saying the report claims that the league teams USSF, United States Soccer ⁓ what is what is the acronym for that USS? Found Foundation or Federation? I I think Federation, yeah. ⁓ prioritized legal concerns than the safety and well being of the players. ⁓ on page fifty seven it says at Portland The medical staff had to re ⁓ rehabilitate players in secret, and I'll explain why I'm saying this. ⁓ rehabilitate players in secret so that Riley would not see them and prematurely ⁓ declare them ready to play. So why does this matter? ⁓ it at least in my eyes when reading this, Wilkinson was general manager at the time and based on evidence blatantly ignored, or was too careless to ⁓ to see these issues, proving he simply just doesn't care about player wellness or safety. ⁓ to which I have more more questions later like when when you know Bruce as the current what is it? ⁓ sporting director Sporting Director. like questions for Bruce, like, you know, what what has changed about Wilkinson to even consider hiring him, which I I don't I don't think much has. Well, and you still have more to cover of ⁓ of coverage. ⁓ there's so much more to cover, yeah. And like what is has Gavin done anything to to deserve, you know, another chance? I don't I don't like we haven't heard anything. Well, this is still scratching the surface. ⁓ some of the listeners or the people viewing us on YouTube probably don't know the whole scope of what Right, yeah. So I'll I'll continue. I'll save those questions for later. ⁓ So I Yeah, th I think there's there's way more to the report I have yet to read. But ⁓ I started listening to and I I wanna shout out a podcast here. It's called No Other Pod. It's a sporting Kansas City podcast, and they were going strong when all this unfolded. ⁓ I was listening to their podcast today, and they had described ⁓ They're hiring for sporting Kansas City for the whole eight days process when Wilkinson was was hired. ⁓ Daniel Sperry, shout out Daniel, a lot of Earthquakes fans may know him. ⁓ when when the hiring process occurred, Daniel Sperry, ⁓ a member of the media for Sporting Kansas City, had asked, are there any women women involved in this part of the process? ⁓ he was asking Peter Vermese. To which Vermise have replied, there are women who are owners of sport in Kansas City that are part of the ownership group, but the process moved very quickly. Crystal, what is that what does that say? ⁓ That says to me that there was somebody there there's somebody here in the office that's a woman and ⁓ you know it's okay. And they're speaking for them. And also they're they're best friends and women doesn't sound like yeah, my best friend. It doesn't sound like there was actually any women involved in the process. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I picked up too. But if you go to the Sporting Kansas City webpage and it shows the list of ownership, not a single woman is on there. Which makes literally no sense why he would even say that in the first place. There's no women. He lettered describes that Gavin only publicly apologized for his previous misconduct seventeen months after it happened. After being hired to his new job at Sporting Kansas City, the apology had felt disingenuoine. Also claimed that he didn't say ⁓ that Riley was put in a bad spot, which if you know, we're reading these these Yates report, that's one of the biggest claims in the report is that Riley had claimed ⁓ he was put in a bad spot Wilkinson had claimed that Riley was put in a bad spot during this entire time at Portland Thorns. Well Crystal, you I you probably agree, but when you apologize seventeen months after you do something, it's not because you're sorry you did it, it's because you're sorry that they found out about it, right? Right. And the way that it sounded to me, ⁓ I kind of secondary heard about this, ⁓ it didn't even sound like a genuine apology to the people who listened. It was a concept of an apology. Yeah. From what Devon described it it it seems like Not an apology at all. And it's ridiculous. And and and with the severity of what happened as well. It it's a joke. Yeah, and and you know, later that morning, Wilkinson, ⁓ after being hired to support in Kansas City after all this unfolded in in in Portland, ⁓ Wilkinson had stated the facts were not necessarily reported, stating the same day he was hired it supporting Kansas City. ⁓ I mean he had all this time to explain his side of the story. He had the entire report if he wanted to spread ⁓ any additional messages. But that never happened. He never claimed he, you know, any additional information. ⁓ to which that was also like I I'm only pointing that out because it's a really interesting statement, because in a Portland specific podcast, ⁓ the some members of the media had interviewed ⁓ Gavin and around the eight minute eleven ⁓ second mark. On a podcast called Soccer Made in Portland. Gavin constantly suggests to read the report throughout the entire interview, but specifically at eight minutes and eleven seconds, he states, we have to also acknowledge that when a report comes out that gives the truth, there can't be a conspiracy theory that then says we're trying to cover something up. Now, after the information I just read, does that sound like he's He's ⁓ reintroducing a conspiracy theory. ⁓ it seems like he he kind of tracked back there. ⁓ while ⁓ you know at at Portland ⁓ because he stated that when he was the GM of the Timbers at the time. ⁓ and then, you know, two years later went on to support Kans Kansas City and then now states that, you know, the the facts may not always be true. But then here in the interview said that, you know, the the report is the report. Here's all facts. This is the truth. If you can't listen to this truth, then what are you doing? Right. Right. And I think it's important to point point out that Yates report was done very was a very thorough report done by a US federal ⁓ like deputy attorney, if I remember correctly. ⁓ like they interviewed hundreds of people. ⁓ they were extremely thorough with this, and it wasn't something that that that could be Just thrown aside. There there was a lot of due diligence done. Correct. Yeah. Two hundred person interview. No, this this whole thing is you know it's ridiculous and I I feel like I can't say that enough. And it it's I'm I'm maybe getting ahead of myself here, but Crystal, like I I think that, you know, you and and some of us are uniquely qualified to to point out that this isn't just a first time thing that the earthquakes have done now now shining light on the earthquake specifically. ⁓ there's been some questionable things in the past, and I'm not gonna say exactly, you know, who or what, but this isn't like, ⁓ this is our first blip messing up, ⁓ signing someone who has a questionable past. do you feel somebody who works with the earthquakes and is a big, you know, I would say ⁓ figure of the community And you you know, you make your your thoughts known to them and have, you know, the unique ability to do so. Do you feel disappointed anymore or where what is the feeling? This is the single most disappointing decision the earthquakes I've ever made as my in my tenure being a fan. I've been a season ticket holder since two thousand and nine. I've missed a handful of games. I've carried a lot of weight for this team, supported them in good times and bad. I mean Who ⁓ who misses who goes an entire season not missing a game when we've only won four entire games the entire season? Like I've been here through thick and thin. I've supported this team and seeing that notification that Gavin was hired, even if it's just in a consultant role, just tells me so much. And I don't wanna believe it. ⁓ I'm im it's the first time I've ever said like wanted to say that I'm embarrassed to be a fan. ⁓ like it's real it's sad. ⁓ I mean we've only you scratched the surface with Gavin with the stuff with the thorns. We didn't even mention the timbers, ⁓ which might be something that some of the fans ⁓ you know, fans if they're fan of ⁓ MLS, you might know more about and the stuff that he did there with players. ⁓ specifically Andy Polo and his wife. ⁓ Andy Polo committed domestic violence against his wife and Gavin not only tried to ⁓ intimidate ⁓ her from pressing charges, but also ⁓ renewed his contract and did not report it to the league, which was a whole violation thing, which you could say you can kind of excuse that. I didn't understand, whatever. But to know his quality as a person and to then extend him just says a lot about him as a person. And that also me now you have abuse ⁓ covering up abuse of women it with Riley who was frankly a a rapist and c covering up domestic violence with the Andy Polo situation. And you know, as as media, Devin and I work with a lot of women in the the back you know stage of the earthquakes. ⁓ there's a lot of women, you know, even on the field ⁓ w working all over the stadium. And it would break my heart to hear if anything were to happen to one of them and then they spoke out and and did all the steps necessary, all the steps that you know me as a man would tell them to do, the you know, report this or like you can't just not say anything and then be met with this kind of treatment and have someone like this in charge to to kind of cultivate that behavior. I I that would be, you know, a terrible thing to hear. And I I love working with the women that we that we work with ⁓ at the Earthquakes organization. ⁓ but you know, it doesn't seem like like I wouldn't let my golfman go work for the earthquakes right now 'cause it doesn't seem like a safe place, right? Yeah, I'd I'd genuinely feel you know, I feel for for the members of the front office who I'm have I'd have met ⁓ at the World Cup viewing parties in San Pedro and also, you know, our our ⁓ a stadium ⁓ announcer. person, I forget what the official title is. I I you know, I feel for her, I'm sure she she doesn't want to have someone like like Gavin, you know, ⁓ sitting above her in the front office position. I I think that's it's a horrible representation for for the rest of the front office that, you know, you you've decided to drop all codes of ethics. Right. You are the company you keep a city person. You are the company you keep and that's you know, some people might come out and say, ⁓ well he's only a consultant or he's only this or that or he's he's limited in what he's you know, he's doing. ⁓ I think we should not discount the fact that we do have an open GM position and this could very easily be a soft launch into a GM position, ⁓ if things go in a certain way. We don't know. We have a history of hiring internally. You've now you've now put him in the organization. And it's not just that, but it it it's not even just the ⁓ hiring of of Wilkinson, but it's the culture that allowed that to take place. And as somebody who has met the president and and has worked with with Bruce Arena, you know, for for a while now. You know, ⁓ we we heard bad things about Bruce, but ⁓ Chris so you you told me when he first got signed that they made assurances to you that they had done their due diligence. Yes. And that this was gonna be like okay. You know, it doesn't look like that now, right? Right. ⁓ so with Bruce and you know, people have their own ⁓ opinions about what happened and the lack of information that came out with Bruce's hiring and w his firing from the revolution, etcetera. ⁓ assurances were made to me that he had changed as a person, he had grew he had grown, he had ⁓ you know, new knowledge and he was turning over a new leaf and this ⁓ he would be better. The things would be better and this is not a situation ⁓ that would happen ever again. ⁓ and you know, I think we wanna think the best of people and we want to think there's room for change. ⁓ and we don't know what happened with Bruce. ⁓ but Gavin Gavin has a document like there It's documented so many different times and I know there's other instances we haven't even talked about. And the remorse is not there. And where's the gross? ⁓ Yeah. Also the the fact that he's only got one apology and the a significant amount of time since twenty twenty two to announce the things that he's done, to apologize for that on his own will and accord. Yeah. And hasn't done that and was forced to apologize to either sporting Kansas City hire. I think also says a lot about his character. but not only that, but just The attempt to cover up what Riley has done and the backlash and firing to cover that up, the reasons behind it to allow Riley to continue to manage other teams, you know, other other women specific teams in NWSL to, you know, further harass more women. Gavin knows what he did and he he knows that it's it's wrong, but clearly enjoys Riley's company and ⁓ w is willing to hire him again, essentially, and that that just speaks a lot about Gavin's character. So ⁓ Devin, if you don't have anything else on ⁓ in your notes about like the additional things that Crystal was speaking about, ⁓ I'd like to give her the the floor to tell us more things that we you know ⁓ yeah yeah. I mean so Gavin I mean Gav like ⁓ So, I mean, I know we put you know mentioned how I'm what I do with the Quakes. I'm also involved in in NWSL and with BFC and previous clubs and whatever. ⁓ so I have a lot of friends within the soccer space, ⁓ especially in women's soccer. And when that one little blip that came out that says Gavin's been hired, you know, exclusive Gavin's been hired as a consultant, my notifications went bananas with people saying this man should never be allowed back in soccer. That's the sentiment of the the people inside NWSL and in women's soccer that he does not belong here and he he should not feel welcome anywhere. And it it's it's tough being a fan that sees all of that and then also has to try and ⁓ explain to everyone here why we should care about women. I mean when it comes down to it. Yeah it's it's absolutely insane. ⁓ someone who was raised by primarily my mom. I have a sister and I would say close to a billion aunts and ⁓ female cousins. It it's it's crazy how it doesn't matter what happens, it doesn't matter how much ⁓ as a world, you know, not just in the soccer space, as a world, ⁓ things happen to women and then we're just like, ⁓ well that was just that one time. You know, it'll be okay tomorrow. And then it happens again. ⁓ that's just that one time. And it's obviously not the case. And you know, I I think that you guys can both probably relate to this, but soccer is supposed to be an escape for us, ⁓ where we're not thinking about that kind of thing. And that's the last thing I wanna think about when I'm going to the stadium. I wanna think about tactics, I wanna think about stats, I wanna think about, you know, seeing my friends, but n you know, this is just a permanent Permanent black mark on the earthquakes organization for me. And I just finished setting up this display behind me and it took me hours. ⁓ not that I'll be taking it down, but this this is definitely like I I'm very disappointed in my team. And Devin, we we've had discussions of of like should we show up on Saturday? Like, should we go and continue to give this team free publicity and Like we we have great relationship with the people at the club, but it's like if this club is gonna do things that are against the the the best, you know, interests of not just the fans, ⁓ but the staff. And let's face it, it potentially the players too. I know that the the players at this club are men, but that anything can like Yeah. Go ahead. I mean ⁓ d Andy Polo. Right, exactly. These are people that are in our community. I mean, how can we associate with with that? And it I don't wanna speak too much on this, but like I said, there's been things in the past that like we we don't want to talk about, but there's a reason that we don't want to talk about them because they're really, you know, heavy stuff. And this is just the latest, but probably, you know, the biggest. And it feels like we give them ⁓ an inch and they take a mile. ⁓ anything to add on that, Crystal? No, we give ⁓ grace. Like I said, I mean w a lot of people are f ⁓ have commented, well, why are you gonna hold Gavin accountable and not Bruce? Wh where they wanna just be like, Well, you're just you're just cherry picking the situation. No, we're not. ⁓ and also like one of the friends of mine ⁓ from NWSL said, You can be the GM that signs Alex Morgan, which ⁓ everyone most people here should know who that is on the women's soccer, you can sign Alex Morgan and still be a shitty human. And still not know how to do your job every other day. Absolutely. And it's been a a a really weird thing about Bruce because, you know, for the most part I I I enjoy him you know, I like his sassy energy, even when it's directed at me. I I you know, I get over it. I I enjoy that the team looks better and the culture of the club this season has been at an all time high. I think Devin you can probably you know, agree and attest to that. But even then, even if we were to win the rest of our games, I'm just like I don't know if I like I said, I don't know if I want to show up. ⁓ because we we do a lot of work for this team. Those those wins would feel tainted. You know? ⁓ I I'd rather lose a c as a collective with a good group of people than than win an MLS Cup now with a black mark on it. Yeah it just doesn't feel right. I I know so many people within this community that are longtime fans, ⁓ who are really, you know, keyed into soccer in the US, who are really upset about this and really rethinking how they want to engage with this club, which is ⁓ really sad at this point. ⁓ I s I've seen it a few times on the the Tectonic Takes Discord and also on the even on the Quakes Epicenter Slack, where people are saying, you know, I've never been this upset with this club. And this down as a fan, and this sad. And people ⁓ you know, who are not gonna be renewing their tickets, or people who had been considering renewing and they're like, Nope, absolutely not. ⁓ you know, people who are reaching out to their rep reps and hoping to get a reply and only getting a like, hey, we're gonna forward it on email ⁓ if they get something at all. ⁓ so Yeah, and I I think the way that the Quakes went about this, like this whole hiring. It's just super weird. And I think it it parallels a lot of what happened at Sporting Kansas City. ⁓ my final note here about the the whole Kansas City thing. ⁓ when they hired Gavin, ⁓ no Zoom link was provided when the news broke out or the announcement happened. ⁓ the announcement occurred at around two thirty PM, which, you know, Abram, we've discussed how how hard it is in our work life to to take time out of our work. to get involved in a press conference or midweek, you know, media availability. so they they had also hired Gavin at around two thirty PM, making it difficult for anyone to ask questions. it it was reported that most media actually weren't given a Zoom link to even show up. ⁓ so it again For the San Jose earthquakes. Like it they did the same thing. They just put a paper announcement out there and then make an announcement. They did an exclusive ⁓ on a Friday thr past three PM news dump where ⁓ so you know like a source says that this is happening and then I think like one or two other entities reported on it, but the quakes themselves have not reported on it because I think that they will get, you know, downvoted to oblivion. They're gonna If they mention it. So right now I feel like the if you're in the know, you know that's happened. If you are not in the know, you have you have no idea it's happening or what's happened or the context. I mean, I've had conversations with some fans that only saw that we had hired somebody, but no details. And then I asked, Do you know anything about them? and they say, ⁓ no, I don't. And then I just give ⁓ like, you know, the reader's digest version of this is this guy did this, this, and this, and they're like, Absolutely not. This guy should not be here. And I'm like, Yeah. Absolutely. Right. And you know, we try to do our best as as you know, ⁓ content creators of this club. ⁓ we we want to put the word out there. That's why ⁓ we thought you were the perfect person to bring on, not just because you know, you know, being a woman, we could have gotten any woman in the the Hotel. I know a woman. Yeah. But ⁓ just the connection that you have with the fan base, of course, and not just them but with the club as well. And understanding, you know, not just what you want from the club but also what they tell you what what you know should be expected from them at this point. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ again, very disappointed. But hopefully w we're able to ⁓ spread the word about this because again, like you said, ⁓ I don't think I remember the Twitter notification that we got Gavin Wilkinson. so it it I don't even think I saw it on blue honestly, I saw it on Blue Sky and it was because people had tagged me. I want to say Jeff Carlyle had given the ⁓ the piece, which we the Quakes are ⁓ kinda known for using Jeff to spread information. ⁓ so that was not a big surprise. Jeff's no longer on Twitter 'cause I went to go look for it right after. And ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. So the Quakes didn't even break this news. Which when you remember Sporting Kansas City hiring them for the eight days following, every single social media post, no matter if it was about sporting Kansas City or if it was about something else, it was flooded with you know GW out with comments about Gavin. And that was it. It was only Gavin. And it just it got so mud it like it got so bad that ⁓ you know, it SKC ended up firing him, but in the message that they used to fire him, they couldn't take fault for the firing and instead explained that, you know, they took this course of action because the sponsors essentially had decided to speak up against this whole thing. Which I think, you know, good on the sponsors for being like, Hey, we don't want this this guy representing the the team we're we're sp you're sponsoring. That that shows even more like sexism in it for me because it's not even the sponsors aren't like, ⁓ well I I disagree with this morally, right? It's like I don't know who sponsors Portland, like Coca Cola. They're they they s they know that women buy Coca Cola and they're like, Well the women aren't gonna buy Coca Cola if it's on the shirt of this team and so then that's where the monetary incentive comes in. And and then that should go down to the club. And then they have to actually take action because it it you know, that's what matters to them. And i it it's it's absolutely ridiculous. But ⁓ good. I have I have a thing to add with the KC thing though, that just came to mind. one thing that should be noted and I I don't think a lot of people understand ⁓ with the different fan cultures in ⁓ the US, ⁓ so there are multiple supporters groups within ⁓ Sporting K C besides the Cauldron and then the Southstand, which is a collective of groups w much l much like seismic. And then there's also a group called the Ladies of SKC, ⁓ which is an entire women's only group. And so they specifically took this task on of going up for against Gavin, in addition to the all the other groups. So all these groups all got together and worked collectively to go against what was happening. And so it's partially ⁓ because of ladies at SKC that this happened that they were able to get rid of Gavin. I also want to I also want to note also this happened in the off season, which is wildly impressive because people ⁓ tune out when the when the off season happens. This also happened, funny enough, during the annual Independent Supporters Council, which is ⁓ a collective of supporters groups from the USA and Canada at all levels in the pyramid, also women's groups and men's groups. So members of all these different groups were actually all together at the ISC conference when this hap when this was happening. And the people from Cauldron and Southstand had to leave the conference sessions to go get on Zoom calls with their front office because this was something that was just back and forth and they were really active and it was a hard fight for them to get rid of Gavin. Yeah, and Sporting Kansas City also used a hiring group. I don't don't put me on the spot of what the h the name of it is, but that hiring group had pr you know sent in a bunch of prospects for for the position, and Gavin actually was not one of them. Gavin was was an outsider in the whole hiring process, and they decided to go with with him instead of any of the the candidates in that that hiring group, too. So, you know, I think that that also says a lot about the the hiring process for supporting Kansas City and and the fact that their their public message had stated, you know, we've gone through this extremely thorough vetting process to make sure that we brought in the best candidate in the preseason, hoping that no one takes notice and then we can ride throughout this entire preseason un unscathed. But obviously people pay attention, the right people pay attention, and there was definitely, you know, an outburst of of support against ⁓ his his hiring. But it it yeah, it seems like the earthquakes had tried to follow that track and tried to make no no light of this no light of this hiring process. as an ⁓ wha his ⁓ what was his title again or is his title now? Like a it was support consult I I'd I'd have to look at it. It's a consultant and they ⁓ they mention they made mention in one of the articles about how we had lost ⁓ so we had a staff member who passed away in the off season and ⁓ so between that person ⁓ leaving, that's Vasily, and Leach leaving, then there was ⁓ someone was needed to help fill and do some of the tasks of those two people and Yeah, like a GM role. Sort of. Yeah. Just like gave it a different title. Yeah, cons out you know, consultant helping with paperwork. They try to make light of whatever it is that he's doing. ⁓ but also I want you to think about the fact that it's only a few weeks before the end of the transfer window and this is an appointment through the end of the season. So Crystal, I think the big question on everyone's mind. People are asking us asking us to ask who is at fault here? And I know you can only speculate. I I I know you don't know who I can made this decision. You can I I c I mean it's just in the general business structure, there's usually the two sides of the house, business and sporting. And so I can o ⁓ sporting I'm guessing is sporting. So that ⁓ most likely is is Bruce. that hired and then a sign off potentially a sign off from ownership. But I also don't know the reporting if there's anything from like say Jared side ⁓ that has any kind of oversight in that. I just kind of think to ⁓ previous situations we've had with GMs that we wanted to oust and how that needed to happen. And I would think in a similar vein. Yeah, but I had heard it was a this was heavily pushed by Bruce and ⁓ I I un it was understood that there there was some FO pushback but he ultimately decided that this is his candidate that he wanted to move forward with so Which you know is really interesting considering he just barely kept his job as a as a head coach and sporting director because he was fired from New England for being controversial and then he's like, you know what? I'm gonna do another controversial thing. I'm gonna sire this guy. And that's just you can't You know, you were you you just barely ⁓ got by on on Good Graces and and you know, his reputation and what he's done in the past and what you know, glimpses of of what we could become. ⁓ you know, the the footballing side of things have been going well. But ⁓ I don't know, this isn't something that we can just ⁓ forget about, ⁓ unless it's like literally comes out somehow that he had nothing to do with this, which I find highly unlikely. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I think we were we had talked about this last week, Abram, that we were, you know, y trying to use this break as like a let's reset button. Let's look forward to the rest of the season, see if we can collect our our you know, not negative thoughts, but let's let's flush out our negative thoughts, collect some positive energy for the rest of the season. And then halfway through that break, this news breaks that Gavin Wilkinson is is now a part of the San Jose Earthquake's front office and everything that we had just flushed out it just basically got sucked right back up and here we are again ⁓ back at square one. So ⁓ yeah, I am very again v just very disappointed in the in the club. And and maybe not like the club, because I knew that there was there was pushback ⁓ against this decision. Just at at Bruce specifically for thinking that this is a good hire. for the club and knowing that, you know, I know sponsors will be disappointed once they figure out, you know, the story behind Gavin and and what he represents ⁓ to himself and and how that a applies to the San Jose Earthquakes now and and how that there's a huge black taint mark across the entire badge. You just might as well just paint the entire Quakes badge black because I don't I don't want to see the current colouring and design of the Quakes logo. It just feels you're gonna have a hard time going to sleep tonight, Devin. I can see your covers right now. ⁓ I I will have a bunch of Quakes logos on it. At least my eyes will be closed. ⁓ but Crystal, ⁓ I wanna know how does ⁓ retaliation against its decision look like for not just ⁓ a fan in a support group, but just the average fan. So we have to get loud and organized. ⁓ one of the things ⁓ the Devin, you know, when researching was talk ⁓ was going through all the different actions that some of the other groups have taken. ⁓ and you know, it's going to be both in person and online. And so I mean the first thing that we've been asking people, we being the fault line specifically, is to let the if you're season ticket holder, contact your rep. Let them know ⁓ that you're upset and that you don't think Gavin should have a position. You know, they should fire ki they should fire Gavin. and you know, you depending on what your personal feelings are, like I said, there are some people who are saying, you know, gav if Gavin goes or I go. And that might be a reality for some people. ⁓ that's the first step. Just letting the office know that you are upset. So that is a season ticket rep, that is calling to speak to somebody. As well. I know a lot of people don't want to do that, but you gotta do it. ⁓ start making it public on the socials. ⁓ GW Out. If you really want to go down a rabbit hole, ⁓ the Thorns and Timbers fans have used GW out since the beginning. So if you go on any platform and and go through the hashtag GW Out, you should be able to see a lot of other people talking about ⁓ about this. ⁓ but we should be flooding with GW Out. ⁓ you should also consider your signage, ⁓ personal ⁓ personal wear if you're going to attend the games. I know on the Timbers Thorne side, they kind of started out with a concessions ban. So they actually said until Gavin's gone, we're not going to pay anything in concessions. So we're gonna withhold our money that way, because you already have our money with tickets. ⁓ so that was also something. Obviously, that takes a little more coordination. And Depends on how things start going. ⁓ it might have to be that we start campaigns with the sponsors individually, one by one, going down the list and letting them know that ⁓ this is what they're you know, approving by being associated. Yeah, I'd also like to to add to that too, because I just wanna ⁓ like wanting to make an additional note here that, you know, the the media team wasn't behind this hiring. It wasn't behind this decision. And and I think it's it's also important to note that our media team has women on it. And I know for a fact that they're not happy with this decision. so if you're going to make any socials replies, do not attack the people who are running that account because they are not Gavin Wilkinson. So if you're going to make a reply, it it's exactly like Crystal stated, like just, you know, use hashtag GW out or something against Gavin specifically and not using the term you as in like, you know, as if the admin had a a say in this. Admin had no say in this. Admin is just posting content and getting rid of the most egregious comments. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ I just wanted to to to reiterate that, Abram. Yeah, something to say. Yeah, 'cause everyone forgets that the they forget that ⁓ when you ⁓ are mad about a player not doing well. ⁓ yelling at the admin about it isn't gonna make anything change. ⁓ not gonna play even one percent better. But what was I gonna say? I've already seen a lot of I've already seen some comments ⁓ being very defeatist about well, you know, Fisher owned the A's and they did all their fan stuff and nothing happened. ⁓ I would say we can't say that it won't work if we don't try. And so it we we need to try. You can't just just blow it off and be defeatist about it. ⁓ we do have a stake in it. ⁓ and also not all the owners not all the ownership and leadership at the Quakes are the same as the ownership and leadership at the A's. Yeah, I'd say that ⁓ accepting accepting the reality is not a current form of action right now. And I think that that ⁓ is is against our club cul culture as a whole. ⁓ especially back when when Luci was manager, he didn't tolerate that behaviors. You know, and and I think, you know, even back before Lucci to to Almeida and and whatnot. It it just that's not something we go back as far as ⁓ us losing our team and the advocacy that this fan base did to get a new team, find a new owner and get a new team. ⁓ we we can do anything we set our mind to. Yeah, and and I ⁓ something that we can use to utilize, you know, to to kind of push this this this movement forward against Gavin. ⁓ you know, looking at the brief history of of how Gavin had left and departed, both teams, ⁓ both in Portland and supporting Kansas City. ⁓ with the Portland fans, Thorns and Timbers. I'm not sure if Thorns actually did much because I think he was gone. He was he was kind of fi he th here's the sad part of everything with the situation in Portland with the two teams, because he ha he was GM at both, was removed from one because of the Yates report. And w remained with the Timbers. Yeah. Like the even in the same house, they didn't think that it was bad enough that the he should be removed from the ⁓ from the men's side. Which is crazy because then Andy Polo happened. Yes. but yeah. So, anyways, after the release of the report, you know, Portland Timbers fans they displayed signs and banners to show their displeasure with Wilkinson's involvement and active employment within the club. ⁓ and I'm sure, you know, a lot of the the The supporters groups had a lot to do with that as well. ⁓ I'm kind of hoping the same thing for for our supporters ⁓ on both sides. I know you know, Crystal. I want to make note on that, because a lot of people have a lot of preconceived notions about about the banners and things that are in supporter ends. ⁓ anything that is beyond like a three by five sized flag is supposed to go through pre-approval process. So when people are saying, ⁓ bring in these big banners and do these things. No, sweet child, we can't just bring them in and let them be displayed. There there's literally a process of getting them screened to come in the building, even if we can bring them in, you know, separately. ⁓ it larger pieces all have to go through a pre-approval process before we even can say yes. And that is like a multi-day process. So ⁓ say I have a banner, save the caps. There we go. Cause that's one that we did recently. The save the caps banner, I had to send that artwork to the Quakes. The Quakes had to tell me, yes, you can you can fly that. Then I had to produce that, and then I had to show that ⁓ show that to them before I ever brought it in to the stadium. So we get policed, the supporters, pretty heavily. so and we don't get to do all the things that we would love to do. ⁓ there are some ways to kind of go around that and we will see at times that they things do get through, but not usually. And yeah, usually the ⁓ go ahead, everybody. They I've I've heard from you, Crystal, they take your things away if if they don't like it. Like they'll come and take it, right? Right. And also here's the thing. ⁓ so say we ha you put something up that the club does not approve in advance. They can simply, by the fact that you did not get it pre approved, pull it down and say this is was not pre approved, so therefore it is gone. N regardless of what it says on it, say it does abide by the code of conduct, it can still get removed because of that clause that it was not pre approved. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So ⁓ sorry, go ahead, Devin. ⁓ so just kind of like a a last note here, just like w as as Crystal just described, you know, ⁓ it's fitting that the signs that Portland Timbers fans used were smaller than a three by five ⁓ flag. ⁓ to which, you know, they were able to probably snake that in or bring that in on their own. ⁓ but with sporting Kansas City, none of the fans as it was preseason You know, they they couldn't make any displays or banners and whatnot because there were no games going on until I think it was a day after their their game was played, was when Gavin was was ⁓ fired. but with on the sporting Kansas City side, the social media went crazy as as we just described ⁓ a couple of minutes ago. Every post replies no matter the topic was primarily around the displeasure of Gavin's appointment. ⁓ which also had actually bled into sponsor ⁓ social media replies as well. So they went to the sponsors for supporting Kansas City and kind of voiced their displeasure and was hey, you want to associate with this guy? Like what what are you guys doing? Also with the fact that their name was Children's Mercy Park. They're representing children's mercy. And Children's Mercy doesn't want anything to do with enabling this sort of behavior. So I'm sure that they had a big voice in in, you know, ⁓ the the decision to release him eight days later. But ⁓ saying that if you really want to make a big difference, ⁓ you know, big be a voice on social media, be a voice on the stands. you know, let the sponsors know, like, hey, you really wanna be a part of this? I don't I don't think we want Gavin to to associate your name with with him, if that makes sense. You know. Do do what you can in in that re in regard. And we're gonna reiterate, ⁓ even though you know, they're they're going to downplay the fact that he's a consultant, but there is an open GM position and they're very easily that consultancy can become GM. Yeah. Yeah, and he's actively getting paid by the club too. I don't care if he's selling popcorn for us. Like I just don't want him here, right? ⁓ but correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anything happens to you if you send a a email or a phone call to your Your season ticket rep ⁓ complaining about ⁓ the situation. So it doesn't cost you anything but time. No, time and they they do count those and they ⁓ they send them up the chain. And so higher ups will hear about it. I mean I've already heard a little bit from ⁓ some higher ups of of hearing from fans. ⁓ but you got we gotta put some pressure on. You know, it's kind of like ⁓ The feeling is very defeatist right now. ⁓ we we can do this. Yeah. And also, you know, what what speaks louder than a human's voice in a capitalist market? Money. You know? You go after the the organizations that fund this club that that you know that are sponsored now, that are on the back of our jersey for some odd reason and on our sleeves and whatnot. ⁓ so, you know, if you want to make a difference, do that. I I just keep talking about sharing. ⁓ like I said, a lot of people don't seem to understand, so if you have a friend that you're talking quicks, make sure to share. Yep. Abram, any any thoughts? Any add add ons here? No, I think ⁓ I think we've covered it. ⁓ I think ⁓ it was a very good call for us to bring Crystal on. ⁓ again, couldn't have thought of anyone better. in fact if you said no, 'cause I asked you very last minute if you said no, like I don't think Devin and I are really qualified but we'll really, you know, do our best. But I'm really thankful that we were able to have you on ⁓ to discuss this in full. Especially, you know, not just knowing how this affects the quakes, but also ⁓ Kansas City and knowing the full story of the Portland and and all that. Yeah, ⁓ I just before we kind of ⁓ end, I mean, you know, I said I mentioned I'm also with BF C supporters. They This ended up on their Discord or n and their chats and they're flipping out about this. Mm-hmm. Lots of food for thought with that. The fact that literally in the same stadium we have women who have actually played under under Gavin. Really? Yeah, and they have locker rooms like within a hundred feet of each other. Yeah. Yeah. we I genuinely I can't tell you guys whether or not we'll be there on Saturday. It's it's ⁓ something that Devin and I will discuss. we we've gone back and forth a little bit, but it's something we will talk about just because we don't really feel comfortable giving this this team publicity and and it's literally supporting the team, you know. And this is this is something that you'll f you'll have found if you do you talk to the Timbers and ⁓ Thorns fans was Finding the line of still supporting the players. Right. Because you still want to support the players. You don't just don't want to support the organization. Right. Yeah. And ⁓ we we just go ahead, Devin. ⁓ I was just about to say, like even just previewing the Saint Louis game, I I just don't want to do it. ⁓ two one. It'll be two one. For the I won't say which way. Well ⁓ I mean just just throwing it out there, I mentioned it ⁓ somewhere and no one really talked about it, so I'm just figuring like everyone's feeling the same way about this game. ⁓ St. Louis is on like an eight game winning streak or something ridiculous. Yeah. ⁓ we I think we did mention it that they're playing very well, so it's not looking great. ⁓ neither on the field or off. and yeah, ⁓ like I said, it may or may not be a press conference upload ⁓ we we are we do want answers from Bruce, so there is that reason to show up. ⁓ but again that's something that we'll have to discuss. ⁓ but Crystal, thank you so much for ⁓ coming on the show. I don't I don't think this is your first time. I think you were on when we used to do the ⁓ Twitter spaces ⁓ way back in the day. ⁓ but you've been a huge part of the Tectonic Takes community and obviously ⁓ Quake's community at large. ⁓ But where can the people find you if they wanna, you know, help support the cause or just ⁓ be a part of ⁓ Seismic Union or Fault Line? ⁓ so you would you find Faultline has put out statements on all the s ⁓ on Instagram and Twitter and on Facebook. ⁓ it's under either SJ Fault Line or the Faultliners, ⁓ is where you can find our group. Yeah, and I r I recommend you guys ⁓ keeping up to date with them. ⁓ Besides us, they are a very active ⁓ you know, group on social media. And ⁓ to really keep up with the quakes, I think that you have to be involved with with all the, you know, kind of different I guess groups. You guys aren't an outlet like w like we are, but you guys also are yeah, you you're just ⁓ we're communities. Yeah, we're community. Yeah. And and ⁓ we support, you know, all the teams. ⁓ if there's time we in the off season we do Academy games. If ⁓ otherwise we are doing ⁓ Quakes two games and Quake's first team. And correct me if I'm wrong, I hope I'm not, but ⁓ the fault line is ⁓ accepting of people of all ⁓ gender, ⁓ all the you know, ⁓ sexual orientations. Correct. ⁓ so you're you won't be you're left out. Right. And also worth noting that you don't need to be a member in the supporters' terrace in the supporters section to be associated with us or be part of our group. We have plenty of members who actually have regular seats and they'll come in tailgate with us or they'll when we have get togethers or like going to Quakes Two together. They're we're all just big part of the commun you know, big community. Exactly. And that's why we do it. ⁓ So thank you for being part of that community. Thank you guys for being part of our community. We will be back next week ⁓ with another episode. Hopefully we'll maybe. In deliberation. In deliberation. Yeah, I thought I wasn't showing up to the stadium. We we'll have an episode. Maybe it'll be another one of these and we'll just keep keep dunking on on Gavin Wilkinson. We'll see. ⁓ but hopefully we'll have some better news about it. All right. ⁓ but ⁓ we'll be like I said, we'll we're hoping to be back next week, but until then go quakes. Go quakes. Go quakes.