Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 23 September

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The Bolt Report | 23 September · The Bolt Report

0:11
Speaker 1: This is The Bolt Report. Thanks for joining me on
0:15
Speaker 1: The Bolt Report. I'm James McPherson. Here's what's coming up tonight.
0:18
Speaker 1: The Prime Minister will return home tomorrow after a week
0:21
Speaker 1: in the United States. But what does he have to
0:24
Speaker 1: show for himself, apart from a series of photographs? I'll
0:27
Speaker 1: discuss that with my political panel shortly. Plus, Australia's spy
0:31
Speaker 1: agency issues another warning over Chinese electric vehicles. Vehicles being
0:35
Speaker 1: used to transport senior government ministers. A top Australia-China relations
0:40
Speaker 1: expert will join the program. And can we really trust
0:43
Speaker 1: the modelling in Labor's intergenerational report? Expert economist Leith Van
0:47
Speaker 1: Onselen will join me later to break it down. But first,
0:51
Speaker 1: for all of Donald Trump's faults and... Let's be honest,
0:54
Speaker 1: he has a few. Can you imagine a world without him?
0:58
Speaker 1: Without Trump, the West would be dominated by managerial technocrats
1:02
Speaker 1: obsessed with only two things, demonising Israel and censoring their
1:06
Speaker 1: own populations. Everywhere you look around the Western world, you
1:10
Speaker 1: find weak men, and they've all been on display at
1:13
Speaker 1: the United Nations this week. Let's start with Britain's sixth
1:17
Speaker 1: Prime Minister in seven years, Andy Burnham. Have a look
1:20
Speaker 1: at this interaction with US President Donald Trump.
1:24
Speaker 2: Well, I'm patriotic as well, and, you know, I was
1:27
Speaker 2: explaining to the President today, Britain has been in too
1:33
Speaker 2: much turbulence, a sense of just not knowing where we're going.
1:36
Speaker 2: The country's got so much going for it, and it's
1:39
Speaker 2: time to turn the story about Britain to a positive story,
1:44
Speaker 2: get some... hopefulness going around the country.
1:49
Speaker 1: Oh, nothing says strong geopolitical leadership quite like the mayor
1:53
Speaker 1: of Manchester arriving on the world stage to administer a
1:56
Speaker 1: therapeutic dose of hopefulness. I can't imagine what Donald Trump
2:01
Speaker 1: was thinking of his key ally. Well, actually, we don't
2:04
Speaker 1: have to imagine because we got an insight into how
2:07
Speaker 1: Trump regards the UK leadership when a journalist asked what
2:10
Speaker 1: he thought of Britain's decision to give away the Chagos Islands.
2:13
Speaker 3: I think it's terrible. It was a terrible deal. It's
2:17
Speaker 3: amazing how strategic it is. And I think the prime
2:20
Speaker 3: minister is.
2:20
Speaker 4: Going to be looking at it.
2:22
Speaker 5: Yeah.
2:23
Speaker 1: It's quite something when the president of the United States
2:26
Speaker 1: has to explain to Britain's leader why giving away strategically
2:30
Speaker 1: important British territory might not be such a great idea.
2:34
Speaker 1: But thank God for an adult in the room. The
2:37
Speaker 1: Brits shouldn't despair too much, though, because it could be worse.
2:41
Speaker 1: You could be Canadian. Canadians are currently in shock after
2:44
Speaker 1: a former member of their armed services fired a shotgun
2:48
Speaker 1: at an Ontario synagogue, killing a policeman stationed out front.
2:52
Speaker 1: He was guarding Jews. Prime Minister Mark Carney was asked
2:55
Speaker 1: about that today.
2:57
Speaker 4: Are you concerned about any potential links to extremist ideas
3:00
Speaker 4: within the military?
3:01
Speaker 6: All right. I'm not going to comment on any aspect
3:05
Speaker 6: of that situation.
3:08
Speaker 1: So he point-blank refuses to address his own people's fears
3:11
Speaker 1: that extremists within their military might have carried out an
3:15
Speaker 1: attack against a local synagogue. But ask him about throwing
3:20
Speaker 1: Canadian taxpayer money like confetti into the most extreme region
3:23
Speaker 1: on earth and the words came pouring out.
3:27
Speaker 6: I'm announcing $ 100 million in international assistance for Palestine.
3:32
Speaker 1: And now you get an idea as to how Yasser
3:34
Speaker 1: Arafat reportedly died a billionaire. But I digress. Mark Carney
3:39
Speaker 1: was asked if he had managed to catch up with
3:41
Speaker 1: the United States president while in New York.
3:45
Speaker 6: I find that when you have 160 leaders come to
3:49
Speaker 6: New York, that it's most valuable to meet those who
3:53
Speaker 6: you don't normally see.
3:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, smart. Why would you make time for your largest
3:58
Speaker 1: trading partner and major security ally when you're visiting at
4:00
Speaker 1: his home? But Western leadership gets worse still, and I
4:04
Speaker 1: haven't even gotten to Anthony Albanese yet. French President Emmanuel
4:08
Speaker 1: Macron stood at the UN podium today and blasted Israel
4:12
Speaker 1: for taking action against terrorists in the West Bank.
4:16
Speaker 7: Look at what's happening in the West Bank. We're day in,
4:19
Speaker 7: day out. We are seeing violations. And in the name
4:24
Speaker 7: of what? Hamas was never very active in the West Bank.
4:35
Speaker 1: Except just two days ago, one of Macron's own citizens
4:39
Speaker 1: was shot dead in the West Bank by a terrorist
4:42
Speaker 1: Hamas described as, quote, one of the heroes of our people.
4:47
Speaker 1: I could spend the rest of tonight's program going through
4:49
Speaker 1: instances of Hamas activity in the West Bank. From April
4:53
Speaker 1: this year, border police arrest Hamas-linked West Bank resident in
4:57
Speaker 1: terror plot. Or what about this from June? Hamas takes responsibility,
5:02
Speaker 1: praises reported shooting of IDF officer during West Bank op.
5:07
Speaker 1: Or from last month, IDF kills Hamas-linked former terror cell
5:11
Speaker 1: member in West Bank vehicle strike. On and on we
5:15
Speaker 1: could go. And yet Macron has the audacity to stand
5:18
Speaker 1: in front of the world and say Israel should stay
5:21
Speaker 1: away from the West Bank because Hamas doesn't operate there.
5:25
Speaker 1: If Israel was ever so stupid as to listen to Macron,
5:29
Speaker 1: they'd always be too early, too early, oops, too late
5:31
Speaker 1: to respond to Islamic terrorists in the West Bank. Sadly,
5:35
Speaker 1: even Macron, however, looks like a genius compared to the
5:39
Speaker 1: United Nations Secretary-General.
5:42
Speaker 8: But what followed was an onslaught on Palestinians in Gaza
5:47
Speaker 8: with a scale of killing and destruction and like anything
5:51
Speaker 8: I've witnessed in my years as Secretary-General.
5:55
Speaker 1: Well, no one would have been killed if Gazans hadn't
5:58
Speaker 1: murdered 1,200 Israelis and taken hundreds of hostages. But to
6:02
Speaker 1: his point, that he's never seen killing and destruction like
6:05
Speaker 1: in Gaza during his time running the United Nations.
6:09
Speaker 9: Really?
6:10
Speaker 1: Far more Syrians, Sudanese, Ethiopians, Yemenis, Ukrainians and Russians have
6:16
Speaker 1: died in wars during Antonio Guterres' time leading the UN
6:21
Speaker 1: than Palestinians have died in Gaza. In fact, the numbers
6:24
Speaker 1: aren't even close. And that's even if we believe the
6:26
Speaker 1: Gazan Ministry of Health. And then you've got our prime
6:30
Speaker 1: minister trotting around New York, collecting global citizenship awards and selfies.
6:36
Speaker 1: Elbow posted this to his Twitter account. Always good to
6:40
Speaker 1: catch up with POTUS. We spoke tonight on the sidelines
6:43
Speaker 1: of the UN General Assembly. That selfie would have been
6:48
Speaker 1: taken after the Trump administration blasted Elbow's digital duty of
6:53
Speaker 1: care legislation and a moment either just before or just
6:56
Speaker 1: after Trump blasted Elbow's idea for a global committee to
7:00
Speaker 1: manage the development of AI. So there you go. That's
7:04
Speaker 1: a brief snapshot of the Western world. And then... Well,
7:09
Speaker 1: then Donald Trump addressed the room and we found out
7:12
Speaker 1: what it's like to hear from a leader. It was
7:14
Speaker 1: like the entire atmosphere around the event changed. He spoke
7:18
Speaker 1: about the need for leaders to address things rather than
7:21
Speaker 1: pretend that endlessly talking was the same as addressing things.
7:26
Speaker 3: I have no interest in leaving dangers to grow for
7:28
Speaker 3: another day. I do not believe in letting problems fester.
7:33
Speaker 3: They only become harder to solve. So while others have talked...
7:38
Speaker 3: I have acted. While others have spoken of peace, I
7:42
Speaker 3: have made peace. While others have ignored threats, I have
7:48
Speaker 3: confronted them. While others have talked of courage, America has
7:52
Speaker 3: shown it.
7:54
Speaker 1: Now, of course, critics will say he hasn't always been successful.
7:57
Speaker 1: Hamas still controls Gaza and the Iranians still lob missiles.
8:01
Speaker 1: Then again, the Jewish hostages are all home and the
8:04
Speaker 1: mad mullahs, well, they don't have nukes.
8:07
Speaker 3: From the first day I entered the political arena, I've
8:10
Speaker 3: been unwavering. I will never allow Iran to have a
8:14
Speaker 3: nuclear weapon. If they had succeeded, that wicked regime would
8:18
Speaker 3: have been free to spread terror and death forever. This
8:22
Speaker 3: was the reality we had to confront, a reality that
8:25
Speaker 3: far too many preferred to ignore. We also brought home
8:29
Speaker 3: all remaining hostages, both living and dead, every single one
8:36
Speaker 3: of them. Thank you. Thank you. Everyone thought it was
8:42
Speaker 3: a miracle that we were able to do so and
8:45
Speaker 3: people celebrated in the streets.
8:48
Speaker 1: And do you think any of that would have happened
8:50
Speaker 1: had the European paper shufflers had their way? Most Western
8:53
Speaker 1: leaders would have come up with a definition of Islamophobia
8:56
Speaker 1: but not a single plan to release the hostages. But
9:00
Speaker 1: most Western leaders, or should I say those currently sitting
9:02
Speaker 1: in offices around the West that should be occupied by leaders, Well,
9:07
Speaker 1: they believe that Iran could be cuddled into giving up
9:10
Speaker 1: their nukes. And that's the defining disease of the modern West.
9:14
Speaker 1: It's confused restraint with virtue, vacillation with wisdom, and surrender
9:19
Speaker 1: with diplomacy. But Trump was not done. He stood in
9:22
Speaker 1: front of world leaders who've used the International Criminal Court
9:25
Speaker 1: to pursue their own partisan agendas and declared he was
9:29
Speaker 1: having none of it.
9:31
Speaker 3: We will never allow US service members or anyone else
9:34
Speaker 3: to be investigated or given... show trials by an anti-American
9:38
Speaker 3: tribunal with no jurisdiction over us. You're an evil group
9:42
Speaker 3: of people. I call on all nations that are members
9:45
Speaker 3: of the ICC to officially resign from this rogue institution immediately.
9:52
Speaker 1: Honestly, I hope to God that our political elites, media
9:55
Speaker 1: and activist class were listening to this next part.
9:59
Speaker 3: With all the... genuine atrocities in the world, the UN's
10:03
Speaker 3: top human rights officials spend their time criticizing the United
10:06
Speaker 3: States for protecting our children from transgender mutilization and transgender insanity.
10:14
Speaker 3: What they do is unbelievable, what they do. It's transgender,
10:18
Speaker 3: mutilization of our children.
10:21
Speaker 1: And here's another part of Trump's speech that I hope
10:23
Speaker 1: our immigration-obsessed Labor government hears, though I bet they choose
10:27
Speaker 1: not to.
10:29
Speaker 3: There is no human right to illegal immigration, but there
10:32
Speaker 3: is a right to remain a sovereign nation, and we
10:35
Speaker 3: want to remain a sovereign nation, and so should you.
10:40
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that's true, apart from the managerial technocrats currently running, sorry,
10:46
Speaker 1: ruining the Western world. And finally, Trump got to the
10:49
Speaker 1: subject of AI. Now, our own prime minister's been running
10:52
Speaker 1: around with others, gathering signatures, urging the US to slow
10:56
Speaker 1: down their development of AI. And incredibly, he was one
10:59
Speaker 1: of those proposing that an independent committee be formed to
11:03
Speaker 1: oversee the rollout of AI across the world. Can you
11:06
Speaker 1: imagine that? Who'd chair the committee? Chris Bowen? That'd be
11:09
Speaker 1: a sure way to retard progress.
11:13
Speaker 3: The very same people who said we'll all be dead
11:15
Speaker 3: in 12 years because of global warming. A name since
11:19
Speaker 3: reborn to climate change because the planet was cooling, not warming.
11:23
Speaker 3: And nobody was dead. These are the same people that
11:27
Speaker 3: are now saying that AI is going to kill us all,
11:29
Speaker 3: that robots are going to attack us, and that everything
11:32
Speaker 3: is going to be a total disaster. Same group of people.
11:35
Speaker 3: We will only encourage superintelligence. We're going to encourage it,
11:40
Speaker 3: not rein it in. We're going to watch it closely
11:43
Speaker 3: through the Department of Justice. The United States leads the
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Speaker 3: world in superintelligence and will continue to do so safely
11:51
Speaker 3: and responsibly.
11:53
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if Trump agreed to let Brussels or,
11:56
Speaker 1: God forbid, Canberra set the pace on AI? Is anyone
12:00
Speaker 1: really foolish enough to believe the Chinese would abide by
12:02
Speaker 1: the rules? America would regulate itself into moral superiority while
12:06
Speaker 1: Beijing raced ahead. And when China developed the technology to
12:10
Speaker 1: determine the future of warfare, intelligence, surveillance and economic power,
12:14
Speaker 1: what do you reckon Western leaders would do? They'd probably
12:17
Speaker 1: convene a working group to express their disappointment. And that's
12:21
Speaker 1: the absurdity of the whole proposal. The West is being
12:25
Speaker 1: asked to restrain itself precisely when AI is becoming one
12:29
Speaker 1: of the most important strategic technologies on Earth. All the
12:33
Speaker 1: while China, well, they'd spend those years building AI. And
12:37
Speaker 1: unlike America, who are being lectured about the dangers of
12:40
Speaker 1: technological power, Beijing has no First Amendment, no free press,
12:44
Speaker 1: and no shortage of interest in using technology to expand
12:47
Speaker 1: the power of the state. Donald Trump is a lot
12:50
Speaker 1: of things, but he's not stupid, by which I mean
12:53
Speaker 1: he's not Burnham or Carney or Macron or even Albanese.
12:57
Speaker 3: Whoever wins AI, you have to remember this, and now
13:00
Speaker 3: I say, whoever wins SI, whoever wins superintelligent, wins. That's
13:08
Speaker 3: the group that wins. And we're leading now over China
13:12
Speaker 3: by a lot and everyone else, and we're going to
13:15
Speaker 3: keep it that way.
13:17
Speaker 1: And I, for one, hope the US does win. And
13:19
Speaker 1: rather than putting distance between ourselves and the US, we
13:22
Speaker 1: should be partnering as closely as possible with them. Because
13:26
Speaker 1: the alternative is not some peaceful utopia in which everyone
13:29
Speaker 1: sits around a conference table agreeing on the responsible use
13:33
Speaker 1: of artificial intelligence. The alternative is that the people least
13:37
Speaker 1: troubled by liberty, censorship and the power of the state
13:40
Speaker 1: get there first. Well, Anthony Albanese will return to Australia
13:48
Speaker 1: tomorrow after nearly a week in the United States. But
13:52
Speaker 1: aside from a few selfies, what's he actually coming home with?
13:56
Speaker 1: The PM played what he described as a quote-unquote central role,
14:00
Speaker 1: pushing for stricter artificial intelligence regulations, an idea Trump mocked.
14:04
Speaker 1: during his speech to the UN. I'm just not sure
14:07
Speaker 1: a central role in a failed plan is much to
14:10
Speaker 1: brag about. The PM didn't even get a formal meeting
14:14
Speaker 1: with our key ally, just a brief chat, which was,
14:17
Speaker 1: by Albanese's own admission, on the sidelines. Didn't get the selfie, though,
14:22
Speaker 1: so that image will go nicely with the selfie he
14:25
Speaker 1: got at the same event last year. Do other world
14:28
Speaker 1: leaders ask the leader of the free world for selfies?
14:32
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's just an elbow thing. Albanese
14:35
Speaker 1: also snapped a pic with Japan's prime minister. It was
14:38
Speaker 1: their first meeting since the PM joked about her melons
14:41
Speaker 1: and then insisted he wasn't joking about her melons. It's
14:44
Speaker 1: not known whether any of that was discussed, but I
14:46
Speaker 1: think we can assume it was not. And Albanese also
14:49
Speaker 1: posed for this photo with the UK's new prime minister,
14:52
Speaker 1: Andy Burnham, after meeting with him briefly also yesterday. on
14:56
Speaker 1: the sidelines. At this rate, our Prime Minister will have
14:59
Speaker 1: more selfies than he has votes, and he'll be permanently
15:03
Speaker 1: on the sidelines. Joining me now is former Liberal Senator,
15:06
Speaker 1: now with One Nation, Holly Hughes, and former Chief of
15:08
Speaker 1: Staff to Labor leader Bill Shorten, and now Director of
15:11
Speaker 1: GXO Strategies, Cameron Milner. Welcome to you both. Holly, I'll
15:15
Speaker 1: start with you. Beyond the photographs, can you point to
15:18
Speaker 1: anything substantive that Anthony Albanese has achieved while in the U.S.
15:23
Speaker 4: Look, can I just have an indulgence? Look, it's my
15:26
Speaker 4: wedding anniversary today. Happy anniversary, honey. Prior to getting remarried,
15:31
Speaker 4: I can tell you there was a thing about men that,
15:34
Speaker 4: you know, within the girls we used to say, they
15:36
Speaker 4: just gave you that ick and you couldn't quite put
15:39
Speaker 4: your finger on it but it just wasn't right. And
15:42
Speaker 4: you look at that photo and let me tell you,
15:45
Speaker 4: every woman in Australia just got the ick. It's just gross.
15:49
Speaker 4: That is all he's managed to do is give every
15:52
Speaker 4: woman in Australia the ick feeling about how, I mean,
15:56
Speaker 4: the fact he's standing next to the Japanese Prime Minister,
16:00
Speaker 4: I would have had more respect for him if he'd
16:02
Speaker 4: put his hand up in the melons, you know, in
16:05
Speaker 4: their shape and, you know, owned it and tried to
16:07
Speaker 4: make light of it like he tried to do previously.
16:10
Speaker 4: Because at the end of the day, he's achieved nothing.
16:12
Speaker 4: He's fundamentally embarrassed us on the world stage with Donald Trump,
16:16
Speaker 4: amongst others, slapping down these digital reforms they want to do.
16:20
Speaker 1: Well, before I go to Cameron, Holly, happy anniversary to
16:23
Speaker 1: you and your husband. Love you both. Cameron, Albanese doesn't
16:28
Speaker 1: look like a leader when he's at home. And if
16:30
Speaker 1: it's possible, he actually seems to shrink when he's on
16:33
Speaker 1: the world stage. Would you agree? Oh, absolutely.
16:38
Speaker 10: I mean, you know, he's disliked and detested back in Australia,
16:41
Speaker 10: so he's got to go overseas for.
16:42
Speaker 1: A bit of love.
16:43
Speaker 10: But what a selfie storm of nothing.
16:45
Speaker 1: A selfie storm of.
16:46
Speaker 10: Nothing, James. You know, he achieved little or nothing other
16:48
Speaker 10: than getting gong from some think tank none of us
16:51
Speaker 10: had ever heard of. I mean, this is a bloke
16:53
Speaker 10: who fails. at every step of the day. And certainly
16:56
Speaker 10: in terms of, you know, going there with the Japanese
16:58
Speaker 10: Prime Minister, hashtag Melongate, going there with Trump, hashtag with
17:03
Speaker 10: Trump's face, who is this clown? I mean, you know,
17:05
Speaker 10: this is the problem for Albo. I mean, if it's just,
17:07
Speaker 10: if it's a selfie storm, he won't get the votes
17:10
Speaker 10: back in Australia because he's not doing the job that
17:12
Speaker 10: Australians at the cost of living pressure desperately need from
17:14
Speaker 10: their leader.
17:15
Speaker 1: Well, not only did Trump trash that joint AI declaration
17:19
Speaker 1: that Albanese signed, the Trump administration also scolded Labor over
17:23
Speaker 1: its censorious digital duty of care laws. In a lengthy
17:26
Speaker 1: critique released by the U.S. Embassy in Canberra, the White
17:29
Speaker 1: House said, quote, a framework that empowers governments to enforce
17:33
Speaker 1: vague definitions of harm risks becoming a mechanism for viewpoint
17:37
Speaker 1: based censorship as platforms will be incentivized to over moderate
17:42
Speaker 1: speech and that should be protected to avoid regulatory penalties.
17:46
Speaker 1: But Anthony Albanese remains defiant. Here's what he said.
17:49
Speaker 11: I'll always stand up for Australia's national interests and the
17:54
Speaker 11: digital duty of care is something that we're foreshadowed for
17:57
Speaker 11: some period of time. It's not about giving government control,
18:01
Speaker 11: it's about giving people back control over what they receive
18:06
Speaker 11: on their devices, which is why it is framed in
18:10
Speaker 11: that way.
18:11
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting contrast to me. I mean, on AI,
18:15
Speaker 1: the US wants bold progress. Albanese wants caution and committees.
18:20
Speaker 1: On social media, the US wants liberty. Anthony Albanese wants safety.
18:25
Speaker 1: And I want to put this question to both of you.
18:26
Speaker 1: I'll start with you, Holly. What does this growing disagreement
18:30
Speaker 1: with Washington tell us about the ideological distance between our
18:34
Speaker 1: government and the Trump administration? It's really easy.
18:38
Speaker 4: Trump is a capitalist. He's a libertarian. He believes in
18:42
Speaker 4: freedom and all the values that go along with personal responsibility.
18:46
Speaker 4: Albanese is a socialist and he wants us all on
18:48
Speaker 4: the government tape and 100% reliant and only hearing what
18:52
Speaker 4: the government wants us to hear. And that is the
18:55
Speaker 4: fundamental difference between the two. I mean, if you were
18:58
Speaker 4: in a poli-sci class... Trump would be at one end
19:02
Speaker 4: of the curriculum and Albanese at the other. They fundamentally
19:06
Speaker 4: don't agree on things because they approach them from completely
19:10
Speaker 4: different perspectives.
19:12
Speaker 1: I reckon that's a pretty good summary, Cameron. I'm not
19:14
Speaker 1: sure if you'll be able to explain it better, but
19:16
Speaker 1: have a go. What do you think?
19:19
Speaker 10: Well, the home of the free speech is called out
19:22
Speaker 10: to the digital gag order. I mean, Albo doesn't like dissent.
19:25
Speaker 10: Albo wants to shut up anyone who says anything bad.
19:28
Speaker 10: Like the question the other day was, are you a fraud,
19:30
Speaker 10: Prime Minister? I mean, he didn't want that one either.
19:32
Speaker 10: Anywhere near the news. So this is a guy who
19:34
Speaker 10: has got a glass jaw, who can't stack criticism, and
19:37
Speaker 10: wants to give faceless bureaucrats in Canberra the ability to
19:40
Speaker 10: censor free speech.
19:43
Speaker 4: We've all got a high-five Latika Burke for that one.
19:46
Speaker 8: That was great.
19:48
Speaker 1: It was a great question. It really was. And Elbow's face,
19:52
Speaker 1: I mean, he just wanted the ground to open up
19:55
Speaker 1: and swallow him while that was being asked. And it
19:57
Speaker 1: was one of those questions that never ended either. The
19:59
Speaker 1: pain just continued for Elbow. All right, let's talk local politics.
20:04
Speaker 1: One Nation and the Coalition have been in talks about
20:07
Speaker 1: a potential supply and confidence pact. Or have they? Senior
20:11
Speaker 1: One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce says discussions have been had.
20:16
Speaker 3: You'd expect them.
20:18
Speaker 12: To give you confidence and supply.
20:20
Speaker 7: Yep.
20:20
Speaker 1: Well, that's what we're offering them, and isn't that what
20:22
Speaker 1: people want?
20:23
Speaker 9: I've had discussions, Andrew, as recently as this morning, with very,
20:27
Speaker 9: very senior Liberals about precisely this.
20:30
Speaker 1: But opposition leader Angus Taylor was emphatic this morning that
20:34
Speaker 1: that never happened.
20:36
Speaker 13: No, and I gave no authority to anyone else to
20:38
Speaker 13: have that conversation.
20:39
Speaker 1: Alright, so now, guys, we've got a political mystery worthy
20:42
Speaker 1: of Agatha Christie. Barnaby says someone talked to him. Angus
20:45
Speaker 1: says the Liberals didn't, which leaves the Nationals. Could it
20:48
Speaker 1: have been Matt Canavan? Well, we asked him that last night.
20:53
Speaker 11: I talk to Barnaby regularly, but I haven't had those
20:57
Speaker 11: discussions with him.
20:59
Speaker 1: So is Barnaby conducting coalition negotiations entirely inside his own
21:03
Speaker 1: head and then waking up with a deal? Or is
21:06
Speaker 1: someone in the coalition being rather selective about which conversations
21:10
Speaker 1: they remember having? Holly, you've got the inside running, all
21:13
Speaker 1: things One Nation. What's going on?
21:15
Speaker 4: Look, I'd suggest or I'd hope that Barnaby, if he's
21:17
Speaker 4: talking to anyone, it's people that are senior within the
21:20
Speaker 4: organisational wing of the Liberal Party, because the reality is
21:23
Speaker 4: Some of those people that just appeared and a lot
21:25
Speaker 4: of other Liberal Party frontbenchers who'd like to consider themselves
21:28
Speaker 4: senior Liberals may or may not still have their seat
21:31
Speaker 4: after the next federal election, particularly if you go through
21:34
Speaker 4: the Resolve polls. So, therefore, I'm not quite sure they're
21:37
Speaker 4: the senior Liberals Barnaby would be bothered to talk to.
21:40
Speaker 4: Perhaps he needs to find the frontbenchers in the Senate
21:44
Speaker 4: who aren't up for election at the next election to
21:46
Speaker 4: see who's still going to be left behind.
21:49
Speaker 1: Well, Cameron, I find it hard to believe Barnaby would
21:51
Speaker 1: claim conversations were had if they were not. Well, that's right.
21:58
Speaker 10: And, you know, it's a certain logic to it. I mean, Holly,
22:00
Speaker 10: you know, you're the insider now inside One Nation. I mean,
22:02
Speaker 10: but I mean, it makes an awful lot of logic
22:04
Speaker 10: for the non-Labour parties to try to get their act
22:07
Speaker 10: together and not bleed votes through preferences and elsewhere. And
22:10
Speaker 10: certainly in terms of, you know, the question that's going
22:13
Speaker 10: to be asked is how are you going to govern?
22:15
Speaker 10: And that question has to be answered well before the election.
22:17
Speaker 10: So at least Barnaby's onto it, even if Angus Taylor
22:20
Speaker 10: is still walking around the place saying, I have no authority.
22:23
Speaker 4: And he's cosplaying on a Brumby or something like that.
22:25
Speaker 7: Who knows?
22:27
Speaker 1: All right. Angus Taylor did have a win today with
22:30
Speaker 1: the release of their energy policy, which I thought sounded
22:34
Speaker 1: pretty good. They set out eight key priorities in what's
22:37
Speaker 1: called the Scrap Net Zero Cheaper Energy Act to be
22:40
Speaker 1: introduced within 30 days of a coalition government. Priorities include
22:45
Speaker 1: removing legislated net zero emissions targets, repealing Labor's taxes on energy,
22:50
Speaker 1: combustion engine vehicles, stopping offshore wind projects, lifting the ban
22:54
Speaker 1: on nuclear and directing the Australian Energy Regulator to prioritise
22:58
Speaker 1: affordability and reliability. Addressing the Australian's Energy National Forum, here's
23:04
Speaker 1: Dan Tehan.
23:06
Speaker 14: We need to take a chainsaw to Labor's green, ideologically
23:12
Speaker 14: driven approach to energy. For the Coalition, our energy policy
23:18
Speaker 14: starts with abundance and has three non-negotiables. The focus has
23:24
Speaker 14: to be on affordability, it has to be on reliability
23:28
Speaker 14: and it has to be on security.
23:31
Speaker 1: Hallelujah. Holly, this is the sort of stuff that puts
23:34
Speaker 1: the Coalition back in the game.
23:36
Speaker 4: Can I tell you, though, it gives me like PTSD
23:40
Speaker 4: with an eight-point plan. I just hope every Liberal MP
23:44
Speaker 4: and Senator is learning them tonight because I remember the
23:48
Speaker 4: campaign when Jamie Diaz, our candidate in Greenway, got completely
23:52
Speaker 4: buggered when they asked him about a plan how to
23:55
Speaker 4: stop the votes and it became the story of the
23:57
Speaker 4: campaign for days and the fact that I can't remember
24:00
Speaker 4: which election it was but I still remember poor Jamie
24:03
Speaker 4: getting caught out by Channel 10. You can just hear
24:06
Speaker 4: the questions now and some backbench is going to come
24:09
Speaker 4: out with a 10-point plan or a six-point plan.
24:13
Speaker 14: I mean, the thing is.
24:13
Speaker 12: The substance isn't bad.
24:15
Speaker 4: I notice they still have a climate energy finance corporation.
24:19
Speaker 4: I don't know why we need that if we're not
24:21
Speaker 4: going to be consistently subsidising renewable energy that are apparently
24:25
Speaker 4: so affordable and so successful. Why would we be needing
24:28
Speaker 4: to continue to subsidise them? But we'll see.
24:32
Speaker 12: Maybe we should run a book on who first stuffs
24:34
Speaker 12: up the eight-point plan.
24:36
Speaker 1: Hey, when it comes to dismantling Chris Bowen's energy disaster,
24:40
Speaker 1: eight-point plan, I'd be happy with a 50-point plan. Just
24:43
Speaker 1: do everything you've got to do to fix it. Very quickly, Cameron,
24:46
Speaker 1: before we go, Dan Tehan says the public might be
24:50
Speaker 1: more open and premiers as well to nuclear power, particularly
24:53
Speaker 1: now that they can make so much money from data centres,
24:56
Speaker 1: but they've got to be able to power them. Nuclear
24:58
Speaker 1: is the only way to go. That makes sense to me.
25:03
Speaker 10: Well, except in Queensland, where Premier Christopher Fooley's actually got
25:07
Speaker 10: state-owned generators that actually produce coal-fired power to power data
25:11
Speaker 10: centres as well, and that's the deal he cut with
25:13
Speaker 10: Albo the other day. But to your point earlier, congratulations
25:16
Speaker 10: to Dan Tehan to actually come up with an energy
25:18
Speaker 10: policy which has actually got some logic to it and
25:20
Speaker 10: actually takes the fight up to Labor and allows voters
25:23
Speaker 10: a real choice.
25:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Holly Hughes, enjoy your anniversary. I assume you'll be
25:28
Speaker 1: celebrating with a lovely dinner tonight. Cameron Milner. Oh, darling,
25:32
Speaker 1: where else.
25:32
Speaker 4: Would I want to be but with you?
25:34
Speaker 1: LAUGHTER Nice to spend your anniversary with you, Holly. Cameron,
25:38
Speaker 1: thanks for joining us as well. All right, we're going
25:40
Speaker 1: to go to a break when we come back. ASIO
25:42
Speaker 1: warns Australia is walking into a national security disaster with
25:46
Speaker 1: booming Chinese-made EV sales. Plus, Australian F-35 fighter jet parts
25:52
Speaker 1: meant to be sent to the United States for repair
25:55
Speaker 1: somehow end up in China, sparking national security fears. All
25:59
Speaker 1: of that and more with my Australia-China relations expert after this. Well,
26:06
Speaker 1: ASIO has warned Australia is walking into a national security
26:09
Speaker 1: disaster when it comes to Chinese manufactured EVs. Back in 2023,
26:14
Speaker 1: security cameras manufactured by a company linked to the Chinese
26:17
Speaker 1: government were removed from federal government buildings over surveillance fears.
26:22
Speaker 1: But now it's been revealed those same cameras from the
26:25
Speaker 1: same company are on board Chinese made EVs being sold
26:29
Speaker 1: in Australia. These EVs are equipped with camera surveillance providing
26:33
Speaker 1: a 360 degree view of a vehicle's surroundings. And there's
26:37
Speaker 1: nothing stopping these cars from being driven around defence sites
26:41
Speaker 1: or parking near government buildings and monitoring staff. And that's
26:45
Speaker 1: just the threat from outside surveillance. Our National Spy Agency
26:49
Speaker 1: has repeatedly warned that it's not safe for MPs and
26:51
Speaker 1: public officials to have sensitive conversations while driving internet connected EVs.
26:57
Speaker 1: And yet Chinese vehicles continue to be made available to
27:01
Speaker 1: our politicians. I have to say, though, Chris Bowen was
27:04
Speaker 1: asked about this on the ABC and it didn't seem
27:08
Speaker 1: to worry him.
27:09
Speaker 10: So you're telling me you are not concerned that a
27:13
Speaker 10: Chinese manufacturer knows very intimate patterns.
27:16
Speaker 1: Of your life? I mean, most constituents of mine know
27:19
Speaker 1: where I am on most days. I think you're being
27:21
Speaker 1: a bit dismissive of that. This is granular detail about
27:25
Speaker 1: your life. Well, I'm comfortable... with the arrangements. Joining me
27:31
Speaker 1: now is Professor James Lawrenson, economist, academic and director of
27:34
Speaker 1: the Australia-China Relations Institute. James, thanks for coming on the program.
27:40
Speaker 8: Pleasure.
27:41
Speaker 1: You were watching Chris Bowen there with me. I heard
27:43
Speaker 1: you chuckle. Is he a little too laid back about this?
27:46
Speaker 9: Look, James, I've got to assume that he's being briefed
27:49
Speaker 9: and he's axing on advice given to him by our
27:52
Speaker 9: security agencies. And that's a good thing, because if there's
27:54
Speaker 9: one institution in Australia that's not relaxed about China and.
27:57
Speaker 1: Spying, it's ASIO.
28:00
Speaker 9: You know, ASIO was asked about this back in June.
28:02
Speaker 9: One thing they did say is that this is a
28:03
Speaker 9: problem affecting all modern connected vehicles. So it's not just
28:07
Speaker 9: about Chinese electric vehicles. If the Chinese security agencies wanted
28:10
Speaker 9: to tap into Bowen's calls... He'd probably be vulnerable if
28:13
Speaker 9: he was driving a Toyota, just like he would be
28:15
Speaker 9: if he was driving a BYD.
28:17
Speaker 1: But you're quite right that all EVs collect this data,
28:20
Speaker 1: but not all of them send it back to China.
28:23
Speaker 1: So that's probably the difference. What sort of data and
28:26
Speaker 1: information do these vehicles collect? And is it the sort
28:31
Speaker 1: of stuff that could be used against us?
28:33
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, anything and everything from your location to the
28:36
Speaker 9: angle of your seat rest. And if you've got your
28:38
Speaker 9: phone plugged in and who you're talking to as well.
28:41
Speaker 1: Look, I think it's a real issue.
28:42
Speaker 9: We know if James, if there's one government in the
28:45
Speaker 9: world that takes national security serious and is paranoid, it's
28:49
Speaker 9: the Chinese government. And the Chinese government has restrictions around,
28:52
Speaker 9: for example, where Tesla electric vehicles can go to.
28:55
Speaker 1: So this is a real issue. The government has banned
28:59
Speaker 1: kids from using social media, but not MPs from driving
29:03
Speaker 1: Chinese spy cars. They're looking to ban smart glasses so
29:08
Speaker 1: you can't record things, but they've left it up to
29:12
Speaker 1: public servants and politicians to decide whether or not they
29:15
Speaker 1: drive in compromised EVs. Does that make sense?
29:19
Speaker 9: Well, as I said, if we're talking an MP, then,
29:21
Speaker 9: for goodness sake, I assume they're listening to what ASIO's
29:23
Speaker 9: telling them. If they're talking to someone like you and me,
29:26
Speaker 9: I've got to be a bit... Careful about talking about spying.
29:28
Speaker 9: I mean, what we're really talking about with people like
29:30
Speaker 9: you and I is our privacy, right, our personal data.
29:33
Speaker 9: And I guess Australians have different views on that. Some
29:35
Speaker 9: Australians would probably take the view, well, there's about 50
29:37
Speaker 9: apps on my phone that are spying on me already.
29:40
Speaker 9: so one more Chinese EV may not tip them over
29:44
Speaker 9: the edge. But other people, they might say, well, I'm
29:47
Speaker 9: not going to buy a BYD, I'm going to buy
29:48
Speaker 9: a Tesla. Or like me, James, a 1979 Holden Gemini.
29:52
Speaker 9: That's a safe car.
29:53
Speaker 1: Well, I will not be getting a ride home from
29:55
Speaker 1: the studio with you tonight, James, that's for sure. What
29:58
Speaker 1: are other nations doing in terms of... securing themselves from
30:03
Speaker 1: this threat compared to Australia? Yeah, that's a good question.
30:06
Speaker 9: And you've got this spectrum, right? So you've got the US,
30:08
Speaker 9: which has just gone to one extreme and just said,
30:10
Speaker 9: we're banning Chinese electric vehicles. On the other hand, you've
30:13
Speaker 9: got somewhere like China, which, in fact, last year, Tesla,
30:17
Speaker 9: so this is an American company, they sold more than
30:20
Speaker 9: half a million electric vehicles in China. So what China's
30:23
Speaker 9: doing is that they are banning Teslas from entering certain
30:26
Speaker 9: government buildings, even driving through certain localities, And they've put
30:30
Speaker 9: in place pretty tough privacy rules as well that apply
30:33
Speaker 9: not just to Teslas, but all Chinese companies as well.
30:35
Speaker 1: So let me get this straight. China have banned Teslas
30:38
Speaker 1: from driving into sensitive areas?
30:40
Speaker 9: Certain areas, yes.
30:41
Speaker 1: But Australia has not banned Chinese EVs from driving into
30:45
Speaker 1: sensitive areas?
30:46
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you couldn't drive a BYD into
30:49
Speaker 9: the basement parking of the ASIO building.
30:51
Speaker 1: But you're right.
30:52
Speaker 9: I do understand there's quite a few defence sites where
30:54
Speaker 9: you could drive a BYD into.
30:56
Speaker 1: So that might be.
30:56
Speaker 9: You know, a sensible conversation that Australia could have about
30:59
Speaker 9: whether we want to tighten that up.
31:01
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the Department of Defence
31:04
Speaker 1: investigating how F-35 fighter jet parts, which were meant to
31:09
Speaker 1: be sent to the United States for repair, ended up
31:12
Speaker 1: being sent to Hong Kong and now those defence parts
31:15
Speaker 1: are missing. The Defence Minister, Richard Miles, played it down.
31:20
Speaker 1: He said, my understanding is that there is a sense
31:22
Speaker 1: of comfort that we're not talking about sensitive equipment here whatsoever.
31:26
Speaker 1: or sensitive parts, which seems to me to be a
31:29
Speaker 1: little beside the point, does it not? How do you
31:32
Speaker 1: write Hong Kong on the parcel when it's meant to
31:36
Speaker 1: be going to the United States? That does not sound
31:37
Speaker 1: like an accident.
31:39
Speaker 9: There's no getting around this as a stuff-up. Aside from
31:42
Speaker 9: whether the part was sensitive or not, probably the other
31:44
Speaker 9: thing that Australians should take some comfort from is that
31:48
Speaker 9: this wasn't an Australian government or an Australian Defence Force mistake.
31:51
Speaker 9: This was an American company and its local subsidiary in
31:53
Speaker 9: Australia with the stuff up. So at least it doesn't
31:56
Speaker 9: point to any bigger, wider concern about how Australian governments
32:00
Speaker 9: and our Defence Forces are handling sensitive data and products.
32:05
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I feel comforted or not, but OK, fine.
32:09
Speaker 1: Let me ask you before we go to a break,
32:11
Speaker 1: everyone's going to be watching the meeting between Donald Trump
32:14
Speaker 1: and Xi Jinping Trump's made it pretty clear he intends
32:18
Speaker 1: to do all he can to keep America in front
32:20
Speaker 1: of China when it comes to AI. Here's some of
32:23
Speaker 1: what he said. Have a listen.
32:24
Speaker 3: Whoever wins AI, you have to remember this. And now
32:27
Speaker 3: I say, whoever wins SI, whoever wins super intelligent, wins.
32:35
Speaker 3: That's the group that wins. And we're leading now over
32:39
Speaker 3: China by a lot and everyone else. And we're going
32:42
Speaker 3: to keep it that way. We're going to keep it
32:45
Speaker 3: very very straight and very strong. I'm not going to
32:49
Speaker 3: stifle growth of something that will be bigger than the
32:52
Speaker 3: Industrial Revolution.
32:54
Speaker 1: So there you go. That's what Trump said at the UN.
32:56
Speaker 1: Two quick questions for you, James. Firstly, is America in
32:59
Speaker 1: front of China when it comes to AI? And second,
33:02
Speaker 1: how important is it that they stay in front?
33:04
Speaker 9: Yeah, so two quick answers. There's a couple races happening, James.
33:07
Speaker 9: So one is which countries has got the best model.
33:09
Speaker 9: You type in a question, it spits out the best answer.
33:12
Speaker 9: I think America's still a bit ahead on that. But
33:15
Speaker 9: where China's ahead of America is diffusing AI throughout its economy,
33:18
Speaker 9: throughout its industry. That's its real strength. America's biggest challenge
33:23
Speaker 9: is around AI talent, the brainpower. These days, more and
33:27
Speaker 9: more of the world's best AI talent is actually based
33:30
Speaker 9: in China. In the past, a lot of the best
33:31
Speaker 9: Chinese talent has actually worked in America. But over time,
33:34
Speaker 9: that's changing. More of it's staying in China. So it'll
33:36
Speaker 9: be a challenge for the US to stay ahead.
33:39
Speaker 1: Really interesting stuff. I'm sure that Andrew Bolt will have
33:42
Speaker 1: you on many times in the next months as this
33:45
Speaker 1: issue keeps ramping up. It's great to talk to you tonight.
33:47
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for coming into the studio.
33:49
Speaker 9: Thanks for the chat.
33:50
Speaker 1: All right, coming up after the break, Labor caught out
33:52
Speaker 1: in another election lie, plus housing sentiment sours across the
33:56
Speaker 1: nation as prices plunge and everyone's afraid of at least another,
34:00
Speaker 1: maybe two more interest rates. All of that with Lith
34:02
Speaker 1: Van Onselen after this. Well, by now we're all familiar
34:09
Speaker 1: with Anthony Albanese's 2022 election promise that if we trusted
34:12
Speaker 1: him with our vote, power prices would fall by, what
34:16
Speaker 1: was it, $ 275 by 2025. Well, 2025 came and went
34:21
Speaker 1: while power prices just kept on rising. When Albanese made
34:25
Speaker 1: the promise, he assured us it would happen because the modelling.
34:29
Speaker 11: It will see electricity prices fall from the current level
34:34
Speaker 11: by $ 275 for households by 2025.
34:40
Speaker 13: How sure are you that that 275 is robust when
34:43
Speaker 13: you've only got three years to deliver it from 22
34:45
Speaker 13: to 25?
34:45
Speaker 11: Well, I don't think I know. I know because we
34:51
Speaker 11: have done the modelling.
34:54
Speaker 1: Ah, yes, and then when it became clear that what
34:56
Speaker 1: he promised would not happen, Elbow did the responsible thing
34:59
Speaker 1: and blamed the modelling. Do you stand by that modelling? Oh.
35:05
Speaker 1: It's Reputex's modelling. Excuse me, you took... That was what
35:09
Speaker 1: you base your policies on. It's Reputex's modelling.
35:12
Speaker 10: You took ownership of that modelling.
35:14
Speaker 11: It's Reputex's modelling from that time.
35:16
Speaker 10: You don't support the modelling anymore.
35:17
Speaker 1: This is you walking away from that modelling.
35:19
Speaker 11: It's Reputex's modelling base.
35:22
Speaker 1: Moral of the story, you can't trust the PM or
35:25
Speaker 1: the modelling, and you definitely shouldn't trust this PM when
35:27
Speaker 1: he's quoting modelling because... That's just dishonesty squared. And yet
35:31
Speaker 1: the government is asking us to believe new modelling contained
35:34
Speaker 1: within the intergenerational report released Monday by Jim Chalmers that
35:38
Speaker 1: promises average household energy costs are expected to decline by
35:42
Speaker 1: around 40%. from 2030 to 2050 as households electrify with
35:49
Speaker 1: a solar-powered household that electrifies their home and vehicles, reducing
35:53
Speaker 1: costs by around $ 4, 300 a year. Well, sign me up.
35:58
Speaker 1: Where do I vote for Labor at the next election?
36:00
Speaker 1: It's an amazing promise, isn't it? Not least of which
36:03
Speaker 1: because neither the politicians nor the modelling will be around
36:06
Speaker 1: to blame if by 2050 it's gone the way of
36:09
Speaker 1: every other Labor promise. Joining me now is macro business
36:13
Speaker 1: chief economist Leith van Onselen. Leith, maybe this modelling is
36:18
Speaker 1: the one. Maybe this time they got it right.
36:21
Speaker 13: Yeah, unfortunately, I think not, James. I think this is
36:24
Speaker 13: just another furphy like the modelling taken to the 2022
36:28
Speaker 13: federal election. Look, unfortunately, the Australian Treasury, which has obviously
36:32
Speaker 13: done the modelling for the intergenerational port, has form here.
36:35
Speaker 13: Last year they released dodgy modelling. claiming massive economic benefits
36:40
Speaker 13: from pursuing net zero. So last year they claimed that
36:42
Speaker 13: the Australian economy is going to be $ 2. 2 trillion larger
36:46
Speaker 13: by 2050 compared to if we didn't do net zero,
36:49
Speaker 13: which everyone, I think, can understand is a complete joke.
36:53
Speaker 1: No-one's going to.
36:54
Speaker 13: Believe that suddenly. Basically, anybody who believes that higher energy
36:58
Speaker 13: costs and taxes to support the renewable energy subsidies are
37:01
Speaker 13: a ticket to economic utopia needs their head read. Higher
37:05
Speaker 13: energy costs are Australia's ticket to lower productivity... and growth, de-industrialisation,
37:10
Speaker 13: which we've already seen with a whole bunch of manufacturers
37:12
Speaker 13: closing and moving offshore, and ultimately reduced living standards. So
37:16
Speaker 13: this is just another joke set of modelling coming out
37:18
Speaker 13: of the Australian Treasury on top of its joke modelling
37:20
Speaker 13: last year.
37:21
Speaker 1: Well, the other great joke in the intergenerational report concerns
37:25
Speaker 1: the future of what the government calls green aluminium. Here's
37:28
Speaker 1: what the report says. Are you inclined to believe that prediction?
37:44
Speaker 13: Look, it's just more horse manure, to be quite frank.
37:46
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't be more frank than that.
37:48
Speaker 13: Look, the 2023 intergeneration report pumped up green hydrogen in
37:52
Speaker 13: a very similar way. So it said that green hydrogen
37:54
Speaker 13: is going to make Australia rich. It's this massive export opportunity, blah, blah, blah.
37:58
Speaker 13: We all know how that ended, don't we? Green hydrogen
38:01
Speaker 13: has collapsed across the entire world. It was always a
38:03
Speaker 13: pipe dream. And here we are with a new pipe
38:05
Speaker 13: dream of green aluminium. Now, look, aluminium smelting needs continuous
38:10
Speaker 13: firm power, which is non-weather dependent. It needs very low cost.
38:14
Speaker 13: And it's only commercially viable when electricity is cheap, low
38:18
Speaker 13: carbon and 24-7. And for this reason, green aluminium has
38:22
Speaker 13: only been successful in countries with abundant nuclear power, which
38:25
Speaker 13: we don't have, or abundant excess hydro power, which we
38:28
Speaker 13: don't have. So Australia's got none of this stuff. And therefore,
38:31
Speaker 13: we can't supply affordable, firm, low carbon power. So look,
38:35
Speaker 13: the 2026 Intergeneration Report is just spinning more renewable fantasies,
38:41
Speaker 13: just like it did in 2023. with green hydrogen. An
38:44
Speaker 13: absolute joke.
38:45
Speaker 1: Well, another interesting conclusion in the intergenerational report was that
38:49
Speaker 1: Australia faces an ageing crisis with, obviously, by I think
38:55
Speaker 1: it's 2060, we'll have more deaths than births. And the
38:59
Speaker 1: intergenerational report posits that we won't survive without mass migration.
39:04
Speaker 1: You argue that mass migration doesn't necessarily help productivity. In fact,
39:08
Speaker 1: mass migration can make productivity worse. Can you explain that?
39:12
Speaker 13: Yeah, and also doesn't help population ageing because guess what?
39:14
Speaker 13: Migrants age at the same rate as everyone else. So, look,
39:17
Speaker 13: Australia hasn't built enough homes or infrastructure to keep pace
39:20
Speaker 13: with its mass migration. We've had two decades of it already.
39:23
Speaker 13: We haven't had enough business investment. And as a result,
39:25
Speaker 13: our productivity and living standards have suffered. And, look, a
39:29
Speaker 13: key reason... why we have an ageing population now is
39:32
Speaker 13: because of waves of mass migration in the 1950s and 1960s.
39:36
Speaker 13: So guess what? 37% of older Australians aged 65 and
39:41
Speaker 13: older are migrants. And that is greater than the 32%
39:44
Speaker 13: share of the population who are migrants.
39:47
Speaker 1: So what does that tell you?
39:47
Speaker 13: If we've got a higher share of older people that
39:49
Speaker 13: are migrants than the overall population, that tells you that
39:53
Speaker 13: previous waves of mass migration have aged the population now.
39:56
Speaker 13: So we can import millions of migrants to so-called solve aging,
39:59
Speaker 13: and in 20 or 30 years, well, 30 or 40 years' time,
40:02
Speaker 13: they get old, and it just adds to the problem.
40:04
Speaker 13: And look, here's one final point I'll make on it.
40:08
Speaker 13: Two of the oldest economies in the world, which are
40:09
Speaker 13: Korea and Japan, they actually have a higher share of workers...
40:14
Speaker 13: across their population today than Australia has, despite decades of
40:18
Speaker 13: mass migration. So just think about it for a second.
40:22
Speaker 13: Ageing is supposed to be a problem, yet these countries
40:24
Speaker 13: with the oldest populations on earth, where the populations are shrinking,
40:27
Speaker 13: have a higher percentage of people working in their economies
40:30
Speaker 13: than Australia has, despite decades of mass migration. So what
40:34
Speaker 13: that tells you is that we need to use our
40:35
Speaker 13: existing workforce better, rather than just importing people. And a
40:39
Speaker 13: simple way to do that would be to get rid
40:40
Speaker 13: of the pension income test, and incentivise older people to
40:45
Speaker 13: work longer rather than penalising them. That would increase the
40:48
Speaker 13: Labor force without needing migration.
40:51
Speaker 1: There you go. Leith Van Onselen, great to chat. Thanks
40:53
Speaker 1: so much for the insights. All right, coming up after
40:56
Speaker 1: the break, Penny Wong tells the truth about Labor's approach
40:59
Speaker 1: to the Middle East. My panel will join me for
41:01
Speaker 1: that after this. Foreign Minister Penny Wong has opened up
41:07
Speaker 1: about Labor's approach to the Middle East in an interview
41:10
Speaker 1: with the Australian newspaper. Senator Wong conceded that Palestine is
41:14
Speaker 1: not a functioning sovereign nation, despite Labor recognising it as
41:17
Speaker 1: one last year. She told The Australian, We are working
41:21
Speaker 1: with the UK and Canada, as well as with Indonesia,
41:23
Speaker 1: on how do we contribute to the reform of the
41:26
Speaker 1: Palestinian Authority and support and ensure, as far as we
41:29
Speaker 1: are able, their reform. To which I would ask, why
41:34
Speaker 1: would they bother to reform when you've already given them
41:36
Speaker 1: what they want? Penny Wong went on to say that
41:40
Speaker 1: Labour's recognition of a Palestinian state was, quote, not an
41:44
Speaker 1: ideological position. I think it's a principled position, but it's
41:47
Speaker 1: also a pragmatic position which recognises there's no peace and
41:51
Speaker 1: security for Israelis and Palestinians unless there are two states.
41:55
Speaker 1: To which I would say Gaza was effectively its own state.
41:59
Speaker 1: The Jews left Gaza in 2005, after which.
42:02
Speaker 1: The Palestinians voted a terrorist group into power and transformed
42:05
Speaker 1: the region into a staging post for attacks on Israel. Oh,
42:09
Speaker 1: and the Palestinians don't want a two-state solution, from the
42:12
Speaker 1: river to the sea. Joining me now is the panel,
42:15
Speaker 1: Gemma Tognini of GT Communications and News24 contributor Caroline DeRusso. Gemma,
42:20
Speaker 1: what do you think of Penny Wong telling The Australian
42:23
Speaker 1: that recognising Palestinian statehood was a principled, pragmatic decision?
42:29
Speaker 12: The spirit of George Costanza is strong in this government, James.
42:33
Speaker 12: It's not a lie if you believe it. I mean,
42:36
Speaker 12: the foreign minister embarrasses herself, embarrasses the office of the
42:41
Speaker 12: foreign minister and this country by taking that position. I mean,
42:45
Speaker 12: let's just talk about Camp David for 30 seconds, where
42:48
Speaker 12: Arafat had everything on the table, including East Jerusalem. and said, no,
42:53
Speaker 12: for the simple reason that you've already alluded to, there
42:56
Speaker 12: is no desire for two states. There is a desire
42:58
Speaker 12: for only one state. And spoiler alert, that does not
43:03
Speaker 12: include Israel. And also to your previous point, James, around
43:08
Speaker 12: the reform, the hubris of Senator Wong to think that
43:12
Speaker 12: the Palestinian Authority wants to reform and will submit to
43:16
Speaker 12: their help. I mean, we are talking about.
43:20
Speaker 12: An authority that when I was last in Israel, which
43:22
Speaker 12: was 18 months ago, was at war with itself in Judea, Samaria,
43:27
Speaker 12: was burning itself to the ground. And let's also talk
43:30
Speaker 12: about the fact that Hamas is yet to disarm, which
43:33
Speaker 12: is a key deliverable under the peace plan. It's not disarmed.
43:39
Speaker 12: It will not voluntarily disarm. This government has got to
43:43
Speaker 12: stop day drinking when it comes to the Middle Eastern
43:46
Speaker 12: policy position that they hold.
43:48
Speaker 1: There's a fair bit of day drinking going on, I
43:50
Speaker 1: would say. Caroline, Penny Wong was asked whether or not
43:53
Speaker 1: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would be welcome in Australia.
43:56
Speaker 1: And she replied, and I quote, I don't think he's
43:59
Speaker 1: seeking an invitation. Wow, that's pretty casual and sort of
44:06
Speaker 1: just wiping him aside. I don't think she'd say that
44:08
Speaker 1: if she was asked whether the Palestinian leader would be
44:11
Speaker 1: welcome in the country.
44:15
Speaker 5: Gemma spoke about the office. Like, have some respect and
44:19
Speaker 5: dignity for the office and whether you like another world
44:24
Speaker 5: leader or not, he is, and obviously they're going to
44:27
Speaker 5: have an election in October, but just be respectful of
44:33
Speaker 5: your allies and other heads of state, even if you
44:36
Speaker 5: don't particularly like them. That is incredibly dismissive and, frankly,
44:42
Speaker 5: beneath the office. Just to add on to what Gemma
44:46
Speaker 5: had to say, the whole point about recognising a state
44:51
Speaker 5: is that you think this area, and you know what
44:55
Speaker 5: the boundaries are, and I don't think anyone knows what
44:57
Speaker 5: the boundaries.
44:57
Speaker 1: Are here, can function as a state.
45:00
Speaker 5: And I'm not sure under any pub test in this
45:04
Speaker 5: country that a government which has a policy of pay
45:08
Speaker 5: for slay is ever going to be a functional state
45:12
Speaker 5: that would be I think, appropriate for the people of
45:17
Speaker 5: this country. So how a government gets to a point
45:20
Speaker 5: where it thinks that it can.
45:24
Speaker 5: It thinks it knows what reform is and that it
45:26
Speaker 5: can deliver them some sort of white paper or something
45:29
Speaker 5: like that and end up with something that's, you know,
45:33
Speaker 5: a bit more.
45:34
Speaker 1: a bit more.
45:37
Speaker 5: Easy for people to swallow over here, they are absolutely deluded.
45:41
Speaker 12: I've got a great idea, James. Why don't we do this?
45:43
Speaker 12: Why don't we recognise people who are not yet qualified
45:47
Speaker 12: as doctors, but we think that they might be one
45:50
Speaker 12: day qualified as doctors because it's the right thing to do.
45:53
Speaker 1: They might be a doctor one day.
45:54
Speaker 12: I mean, they might be killing a bunch of people
45:56
Speaker 12: right now because they're not actually qualified and have proven
45:58
Speaker 12: themselves incapable of being qualified.
46:01
Speaker 1: But let's just do that.
46:02
Speaker 12: I mean, it's the same thing.
46:03
Speaker 1: Gemma, have you not met the federal government cabinet? Unfortunately, yes,
46:08
Speaker 1: I have. You have to think the Albanese government's... I mean,
46:12
Speaker 1: it's open hostility towards Israel. You've got to wonder if
46:15
Speaker 1: it encourages the haters of Israel here. The latest example,
46:19
Speaker 1: a free Jewish honey cake stall... at the University of Sydney,
46:23
Speaker 1: was forced to relocate on Thursday because the Globalise the
46:27
Speaker 1: Intifada party was campaigning nearby for the student council elections
46:32
Speaker 1: and Jewish students were told their cake stall had to
46:35
Speaker 1: move for their own safety. We've learned nothing, have we, Gemma?
46:40
Speaker 12: Oh, I reconnect with my deep rage and disdain for
46:44
Speaker 12: the tertiary education sector when I read this. Like, it
46:47
Speaker 12: is just on repeat. It's their greatest hits. It's for
46:50
Speaker 12: your own good. You know, I read also that the
46:53
Speaker 12: university has said, oh, gosh, we don't know how the
46:56
Speaker 12: globalised the Interparte Party got past the eight ball. I
46:59
Speaker 12: don't know how that happened. It's not like, gosh, we've
47:01
Speaker 12: had any time and a royal commission and all of
47:04
Speaker 12: that sort of carry on. I don't understand. I'd like
47:08
Speaker 12: to think that it's not willful. I'd like to think
47:10
Speaker 12: that it's not deliberate. It's really, really difficult as an
47:12
Speaker 12: outsider looking in objectively on the evidence and going, do
47:16
Speaker 12: they just want this stuff to happen? Imagine being Let's
47:19
Speaker 12: do what we always do. Let's say imagine being an
47:21
Speaker 12: Indigenous student and someone down the road 50 metres away
47:25
Speaker 12: was saying something abhorrent and unconscionable and police or campus
47:30
Speaker 12: security came up and said to a First Nations student, sorry, mate,
47:33
Speaker 12: you've got to go for your own good.
47:34
Speaker 1: It would never happen.
47:37
Speaker 12: And yet all the while Australian Jews are held to
47:41
Speaker 12: a different standard of behaviour. They are not afforded the
47:45
Speaker 12: same protection that the rest of us are.
47:48
Speaker 1: I'd like to see us do Russia.
47:50
Speaker 12: Let's do Russia, James. Let's round up all of the
47:52
Speaker 12: Australians of Russian descent and hold them accountable for the
47:55
Speaker 12: behaviour of the appalling Vladimir Putin. Let's do that as
47:58
Speaker 12: a starting point.
47:59
Speaker 1: Yep. I mean, you highlight the hypocrisy beautifully. We've only
48:03
Speaker 1: got a few moments, Caroline. What does globalising to far
48:06
Speaker 1: to have to do with university student councils? Just really quickly,
48:10
Speaker 1: explain it to me.
48:12
Speaker 5: Absolutely nothing unless you are running for one of the
48:16
Speaker 5: student councils in Cairn Eunice or somewhere like that where
48:19
Speaker 5: it might be relevant, but it has absolutely no relevance
48:22
Speaker 5: in this country. None.
48:23
Speaker 1: Zero. I thought that's what you would say and you
48:25
Speaker 1: said it very well. Gemma, Caroline, thank you for coming
48:28
Speaker 1: on the program. Always great to chat. Talk to you
48:30
Speaker 1: guys next week. Thank you for joining me tonight. Stick
48:33
Speaker 1: around right now. Shari Markson.