Latest / Giving Pain Purpose with Lyndsay Soprano / Unbroken: The Stories Our Bodies Carry with Dr. Karyn Shanks
Transcript
- Lyndsay Soprano (00:01) This is Giving Pain Purpose, where we talk about the game of living in and with chronic pain and trauma. I'm your host, Lindsay Soprano. On this show, I sit with the warriors, loved ones, doctors, holistic practitioners, and those who walk through hell and want their voices heard. You don't have to heal quietly and you don't have to fight alone. If you look up the definition of broken, it states something that is physically fractured and no longer functioning. It's versatile in its meaning to denote fragmented objects, violated promises, or weakened emotional states. And even though we might feel broken, guys, we aren't. And today we are going to talk about why we are actually unbroken. And what's so interesting about what we delve into together on the show for now we're in our fifth season of the show, which is hard to believe. But how disconnected we have all become from ourselves and each other. I mean, we're all looking down at our phones, we're we're all over the globe. We went through a pandemic, we're used to sitting behind the Zoom all the time. Why is that? Why are we so disconnected? And this rising epidemic of chronic illness and emotional disconnection is just off the charts. With so many of us seeking help, even from some of the best trained professionals all over the world, and we are still not getting better. And my guest today believes that suffering doesn't stem from individual human flaw, but a damaging cultural lens that sees us as perpetually broken. And that is heartbreaking to even read. A diagnosis, if you will, stuck in a disease box in a system. That tries to manage our symptoms and doesn't even scratch the surface of the why behind the pain and the illness. A system that doesn't go to the root cause of this pain and illness, which we all love the word and we all know it here: trauma. And the science is clear that all chronic human problems have roots in trauma. Whatever it is, I don't care if it's a little T or a big T, however you want to define it, trauma is how you experience it, it's your lived experience. It's what happens inside us when our suffering isn't held, when we're not held in fierce belonging and safety. And we're gonna talk a lot about safety and resilience today. she has this book that I'm gonna be talking about as well. And I cannot begin to explain how many times I circled the word safety in it because I have massive safety issues. But it is not what happens to you guys. It's what happens inside of you. So if you're ready to heal your core trauma to feel safe again. Acknowledge it and accept that we are all hurt. You're in the right place today, baby. And every day on the show, right? It's time to change the stories that our diagnoses have been telling and invite a better story into our lives and the lives of our loved ones. So if you're ready, I am. And I'm exhausted of feeling unsafe in my body and living in the pain that I do. And I'm exhausted for you too. So without further ado, I would like to introduce you to my incredibly wise and beautiful guests. Dr. Karen Shanks. It's great to be here. Dr. Karyn Shanks (03:20) Thank you. Thank you. Lyndsay Soprano (03:24) it is so wonderful to have you. Dr. Shanks is a physician, author, and teacher who helps people reclaim their lives from chronic complex illness, a journey she's experienced firsthand, blending functional medicine, neuroplasticity, epigenetics, and transformational psychology. She believes that lasting healing begins with creating safety. There's that word again. Compassion, resilience, and understanding the stories our bodies carry. So today we're gonna explore how the mind and body work together to heal and why the most powerful medicine already exists within us. So, my hot mama, I would like to start with a brief overview of your story. And I know you're like, do we have 12,000 hours to tell our stories? but if you can give us a brief overview of your health story and then we can hop into that. grieving and disconnect that you thought medicine was when you were studying. And then let's take it from there. Dr. Karyn Shanks (04:18) Sure. I went to medical school with this, in retrospect, very naive notion that I was going to become a medicine woman, you know. I had no idea what I was doing. I loved science. I loved people, I loved connection and I and connecting with people. And I thought that was all gonna come together in this beautiful package. And it didn't. I spent the first year of medical school. deeply immersed in the kind of human biological sciences, separate from one another, but I could start seeing these connections being made. But as soon as we started our second year, that like disappeared. We never looked back and it all became pathology. What goes wrong with the human body? What do we call it? What disease do we call it? What does it look like under the microscope? What drugs do we treat it with? And I didn't have the wherewithal to understand what it was I was experiencing, that dissonance that I experienced, but it was massive grief. This isn't right. This isn't healing. This isn't what I came here for. But you know, I I stayed with it. I think it was a pivotal experience for me because I feel like I had to know what was wrong with medicine the way it's conventionally taught. For me to do what I'm doing today. Yeah. And as far as my own health journey, I have what's called Erlos-Danlos syndrome with hypermobility and low blood pressure. And it was a probably several decades of not knowing why I would cycle into very severe, like bone-deep fatigue and then injuries, joints, ligaments, you know, just constantly injuries that required I had to go get some help. And over the years, you know, it was like injury, injury, injury. What is wrong with me? That I sneeze and I have a you know, dislocated shoulder or, you know, or whatever. And finally the pieces just came together and it was just kind of a I had had shoulder surgery, I couldn't recover, that my whole body fell apart, my pelvis, my sacrum, everything. I I was in so much pain, I could hardly walk. And I was exhausted and nauseous. And one day I just picked up my husband's blood pressure measuring thing and I put it on and I was sitting down, it was eighty over fifty, which is really low. Lyndsay Soprano (06:52) Really low, yeah. Dr. Karyn Shanks (06:53) I stood up and took it again and it dropped to 70 over 30. And I'm like, holy, it's like a eureka moment. It's like, holy crap. And I and it just kind of came together. Multiple injuries, tendons and ligaments, super low blood pressure. I'm not having a you know, this is not a lung or heart problem. And so I've been really highly functional ever since that time, but it took decades. Because it was multiple systems coming together and having to look at things sort of in in a chronological sense and not just, you know, look at me and what problem I was having on that particular day. You've got to like understand your person and look at their history and their timeline and then see how everything interconnects. So Lyndsay Soprano (07:44) Yes, for sure. Dr. Karyn Shanks (07:45) what I'm trying to teach people is that, you know, we're we're we're kind of complicated in an interesting way. Lyndsay Soprano (07:52) Kind of complicated. My God. It is Dr. Karyn Shanks (07:56) You know, we're not many parts, many problems. I was made to be many parts, many problems, and no one could figure it out. Lyndsay Soprano (08:04) Yeah. It's it's I've always used the word it's a puzzle because I feel like, okay, this started happening at this age, then this started happening at this age. And then when I started doing a little my my version of timeline therapy, I haven't done like the official version of it, whatever that means. but I went through like stu something that happened when I was a little girl and when things started to happen with my health. And then when I started to try to make babies with my ex-husband. why my infertility issues were happening and when all of these things were following the bouncing ball. And I didn't understand any of it until my body was screaming at me, going, You're not paying attention to us. Like I don't know how much louder we need to get for you to like figure out what the fuck is wrong with you. But without but without being negative about it, right? Cause it like like we I'm open. It's we're it's not we're not broken. There's nothing wrong with us. It's just all these things have happened around us, have happened to people within our lives that affect us truly, especially as an empath that I am. The whole damn world affects me at a much higher level. So I'm much more sensitive to things, I'm much more emotional. I bond friendships with people very closely. Very quickly, I want to take care of everybody. And then I'm always the last one on the totem pole to take care of myself and so on and so forth. And here I am five years into a show, almost 10 years into a diagnosis. And I still keep saying, for starters, A, I'm not CRPS, I just have it. And I am not Lyme disease. I just have it. I'm not all of these things. I just have it. But they're not getting fixed. I'm working on it and I'm working on the healing, but we're missing something. And we might be missing 20 things, right? And so that's this journey that I am on is to take I'm like, I'm looking for puzzle pieces underneath my couch cushions. Like I'm missing pieces to finish this beautiful puzzle here. And I'm getting exhausted. And like you were talking earlier about the fatigue. My God, it feels like it is inside my bone marrow, the fatigue. Like last week I had a day where I was down for 36 hours. I was just I I I could not function. I couldn't get out of bed. I couldn't do anything. I couldn't read. It was just like my body said, You're gonna have to stop right now and you're not listening. So how do we start listening to the wisdom of our bodies? Dr. Karyn Shanks (10:32) And understand that, you know, all of the way, like just that huge, beautiful description you just gave of your own experience, this is how your body is organized right now. It's not that you have a bunch of things wrong or there are missing puzzle pieces. Maybe you don't like understand what all the symptoms and sensations are are meant to say to you. Lyndsay Soprano (10:54) Right. Dr. Karyn Shanks (10:54) Important thing is that we know they are meant that it is the intelligence of the body. And we may not be able to like decode every little thing yet, right? Lyndsay Soprano (11:04) Right, right. Dr. Karyn Shanks (11:05) It all it's all meaningful. Lyndsay Soprano (11:07) It is. And you know, these messages that we get, it's hard for me to pay attention to them sometimes because I've gotten so good at masking it. And even in sometimes in my worst pain, I'm sitting here doing an episode and I don't know how the hell I'm doing it. You know, just like keep it together, woman You know. But making sure that I show up and that's my that's my, you know, that's my jam is showing up. But also I want to be able to provide myself with some answers. and rewrite my story so that I can finally once and for all heal and go skiing again and do my yoga like I used to and walk my dogs and ride a bike and like all the things I don't do. Yeah. So let's get into it. Yeah. Yes. Dr. Karyn Shanks (11:56) Where do we begin? Lyndsay Soprano (11:57) Yeah. Dr. Karyn Shanks (11:58) I mean, it I think it's really important to start kind of what where you're suggesting that we start right now. And that is, you know, like here I am, I'm showing up. Here I am a whole person. I hurt, but it's not my identity. This is how what what's going on with me. This is how I'm organized right now. What does it all mean? Like that's the question. Like, what does this mean? It's not that we're missing the up the appropriate disease box we belong in, which is how medicine operates, which is great for life-threatening problems. You have a heart attack or a cancer or a torn retina or something urgent. Lyndsay Soprano (12:41) Break your arm, break your leg. Dr. Karyn Shanks (12:43) You want a diagnosis right now within 20 seconds, and you want to and you want a fix. Right. That's what it's brilliant at. It's like nothing else. And it serves us well. We all have stories about how much we've benefited from conventional healthcare. But it doesn't, it's not useful at all for people with chronic conditions. Correct. It's not. Lyndsay Soprano (13:05) Yeah. Yeah. And why is that? Why is that? Dr. Karyn Shanks (13:09) Because we're we're not simple problems with simple names and simple fixes. That is not even an appropriate way to think about human beings and their chronic problems. Because once we have a chronic problem, now we have this incredibly complex biology, psychology, all of that we are, that is become organized around something, something that's been going on with us. And it's doing it intelligently. It's not it's not doing it because things have gone wrong and things have broken and things. It's it's that the body is responding intelligently to all the conditions, past and present. And sometimes it's hard for us to sort it out. Part of the reason it's hard for us to sort out is because we're not taught to look at ourselves as so beautiful and holistic. you know, beings like that, you know, we're we're taught to think of ourselves as parts. Lyndsay Soprano (14:10) Right. Dr. Karyn Shanks (14:11) When we hurt, there's something wrong. And it needs to be fixed by the expert who's not us, who's someone we, you know, outsource our problems to. Lyndsay Soprano (14:20) Yeah. Great word choice. Dr. Karyn Shanks (14:22) And it's all wrong. Lyndsay Soprano (14:24) Right? Yeah. Dr. Karyn Shanks (14:25) and and that's why I wrote that book because I want people to be able to understand our basic nature. That we are this complex, you know, mind, body, spirit, emotions. It's all part of who we are. And it all plays into our suffering. And to just begin to look at it in a little different way. this is beautiful. This is the intelligence of my body. This is my body, you know, asking me to pay attention. And here are all the, here are all the factors of my life, what I call the terrain that are playing into how my body is able to operate. And why it might be organized around something that makes me suffer rather than organized around a very resilient, robust state of being. Lyndsay Soprano (15:09) You said something in your book, by the way, I'm gonna be like talking about our book randomly throughout the entire episode because I freaking love this thing. And you talked about something about suffering and pain being a portal. And I found that to be so interesting because when I I just rebranded my show from the Pain Game podcast, I renamed it, rebranded it, blah, blah, blah, the whole nine yards. That's what I've been busy doing. And it's now just giving pain purpose. And it was my tagline for my show. And so it wasn't something new that I created. It was just I need it to be more actionable. And I need to know that every morning when my alarm goes off, which I never ever really hear my alarm because I'm up like two hours before my alarm because my pain goes, all right, it's time. You're not gonna sleep any longer. But what I've done is I've learned to do something that I call my blessings in the morning, which is I do a quick Mel Robbins of a count on a five, four, three, two, one, and I get up. And I put my feet gently on the ground while I'm still my bum still sitting on the on the side of the bed. And I'm like, all right, some and Louise. That's the name of my left and right legs. And we kind of had to come up with a game plan for the day. And we have to thank our body for whatever it's gonna put me through through the day and how it's gonna carry me through. And I have to kind of listen a little bit more than I used to. And I plan my entire life around. It though. And it is trickled out to my husband also has to kind of plan around that. The people that I work with kind of have to understand that, Lindsay's out for the whole day. What? Great. You know, and the fortunate I run my own business and I have for 26 years. So it's like I'm always the boss, which is great. I can take time off whenever I need to. But I love the way that you talk about how our bodies are organized right now. That sounds like I and I'm OCD. So I can 100% wrap my mind around that. Like it is organized in this fashion. I can change that organization. I can rewrite whatever script my brain and my body is are communicating with each other. And I learned a lot about that from your book. And I just love the the stepping stones that you have about the core resilience part of the things that we do. And this portal that you talk about to me is how I call it. It's my gratefulness for what has been given to me because I get to give pain purpose. I would have never guessed that I would have to be living like this to start something like this, but here we are. And I'm not gonna be reduced to these stories that have been unfortunately, some of them have been told for me. And then how I have interpreted those stories with my behavior, the way I view the world, the our cultures, the people I've dated, the Friends that I keep, the friends that I've lost, all of those things. It's it's just amazing and miraculous and beautiful what our bodies are capable of, even if it hurts. Dr. Karyn Shanks (18:04) Right. And and pain can be purposeful, but that doesn't mean you have to like accept it as a permanent state of your being. It doesn't have to be accepted as an identity. And you and it doesn't mean you have to accept that you're always going to be in pain. Lyndsay Soprano (18:19) Right. Dr. Karyn Shanks (18:19) You can a hundred percent seek solutions based on what your body is telling you and you know and the work you do with perhaps other. Other people who can help guide you on a on a process for understanding your pain. So, but I love that. I think that it is like me saying pain is a portal or suffering is a portal. It's purposeful. It takes us somewhere really interesting, you know, that has something profound to do with our healing. Lyndsay Soprano (18:53) Yeah, and who we are. Dr. Karyn Shanks (18:54) a dead end. It's not a tragic dead end. It is a wow. It's like a jumping off point. Lyndsay Soprano (19:00) It sure is. And I'll tell you, I have cleaned house in so many places in my life that I I the boundaries that I've put up that I never, ever, ever were was capable of doing and saying no. Yeah. What's that word? I'm a yes person. I'm a people pleaser. And now I'm like, nope, not doing it. So there's like some really good things that are coming out of it, but I'm also doing the work, man. I mean, like I've talked about to every guest, any guest that's on my show, I read their book. I research you. I look at everything that you're doing on your social media. I really want to understand you so that we can have an open and honest conversation about safety. And when you live in chronic pain and illness and you've been carrying it for so long and you come from safety issues, you don't feel safe in your body. My triggers are instantaneous. Like last night, something triggered me in the kitchen. There was a conversation my husband was having with somebody. Totally triggered me. My feet immediately turned the color of the red tank top that I'm wearing right now. Get immediately hot. It goes all the way up my legs. And then my arms feel like they're on fire. My tongue feels like it's being bit by a million bees. And that happens in an instant. Isn't that and it is so insane. And it is completely my stress response. Yes. And so when I'm Usually usually teeter tottering right on that stress response all the time. That's why it triggers so quickly. And I want to know how I can reduce that. And I know that your book and you have been already very helpful with that. So I would like to talk a little bit about how you work with people and because I mean you've got thir your book is is I I could talk about this book for just an entire whole separate podcast. Like just A podcast called Unbroken because it truly is its it's its depth and its breadth is just unbelievable because you cover the science, you cover the psychology, you cover the heart, the soul, the spirit, everything. And you've got exercises in there where you put your hand on your heart and I did it before we came together today. Yep. I did it before we came on today. And so so talk to us a little bit about all of the way that you work and How you're how you're helping people get more resilience with their their lives and their illnesses and starting to change their stories. Dr. Karyn Shanks (21:25) Well, I work mostly with people who have some kind of chronic complex illness. And sometimes it's not all that complex. It's just they've slipped through the cracks because, you know, the system isn't built for them. But many times they're very complex as well. They're very complex. And I look at them very holistically as a whole person. We look at them through the whole the entire timeline of their of their life because everything's relevant. Because sometimes before we get sick, we collect problems and our body holds on. I mean body holds on to trauma. Body holds on to deficiencies and and you know, insults and damaging you know, things that have happened. So I really need to know what's happened since the moment they were born. And and we just start put that kind of then put a story together, a longitudinal story story that starts way back and And ends right here with what's going on with them. We do testing and then we try to we try to understand how their body's organized right now. Do they have an in a major energy deficit? Is is there a is there a bunch of inflammation? is there you so we're just trying to see what are all the all the layers of of problems that we need to understand so we can begin to find to find inroads into and helping people. Lyndsay Soprano (22:57) So when you're working with people like myself who have had these pretty large traumas, I would say. Most of them have been sexually related. It's it's kind of like the where do we begin with it? And like you said, we start with telling our story and feeling confident and safe within that place with you. And then what happens? What do we do as we're deconstructing all of this and reimagining ourselves? Dr. Karyn Shanks (23:22) Yeah, I know it's tr it can get tricky. Sometimes telling the story is threatening. Right. You know, sometimes people aren't ready. And I come in, I'm like, okay, you know, I I want to hear the story, but I I so part of it is I have to have just I have to be super present, super like grounded in myself so that I can trust myself to pick up on the cues. Is it okay for me? And I might even ask their permission, is it okay? To have you tell your story or, you know, and and so permission is huge for establishing safety. Lyndsay Soprano (24:00) For sure. Dr. Karyn Shanks (24:00) And making sure that the primary agenda belongs to my client. It's not mine. It is not my agenda. Of course, I want to hear the whole story. I want to put the pieces together. I wanna yeah, get the biomarkers and then just start putting everything together so that I can like start. giving them things that they can they can use for their healing, but they might not be ready for that. Lyndsay Soprano (24:28) Yeah, because it is incredibly important for us to feel seen and heard in the healing process. And I definitely got that from your book. How important is that on the impact of recovery? Dr. Karyn Shanks (24:43) I think it's critical. Yeah. my gosh, it's everything. So it's like yeah, being heard and seen. And I mean, that's all a part of safe. That's safety is in that connection. Mm-hmm. And the tangible aspects of that connection. Lyndsay Soprano (25:00) Yeah, which we've we've lost in our Western medicine. I don't even know if we ever really truly had it. Yes, that's true. Let's start. Dr. Karyn Shanks (25:10) Yeah, let's start wide and yeah. I mean, yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (25:14) Throw the net wider, Lindsay. Dr. Karyn Shanks (25:16) Worldwide planetary human race problem, right? Disconnection. Lyndsay Soprano (25:21) Yeah, disconnection and we're all worked up all the time in our productivity and our perfectionism. And I I know me, I've been a workaholic since I was like 14 years old. I was like, my dad was like, You will take care of yourself and not rely on a man, you know, like it was like drilled into me from the very beginning of time. So I feel like there's a lot of that stuff that is contributing to the fact that I'm I'm currently in the state of affairs that I'm in. But I also have been an insomniac since I was nine. And we always said at some point that's gonna catch up with you. And being sleep deprived for I just turned 48. So 40 years of sleep deprivation is pretty significant. And when you look at all the things that can happen from sleep deprivation, it is a miracle that I show up and look the way that I do right now, Miss Karen. It is an act of God because I just don't sleep and I don't know. I I don't know how to fix it. It's I mean, there's only so many drugs that, you know, they can throw at you into the disease box. I love that you reference it in the book about this disease box, you know, trapping us in this little spot because these are the symptoms that you have and it actually has nothing to do with my insomnia. It actually has something to do with something completely different, right? Dr. Karyn Shanks (26:43) And it's part of how your sounds like it's part of how for you your autonomic nervous system is organized around probably trauma. Right. So vigilant, alert. Lyndsay Soprano (26:56) Making sure. Yeah. Dr. Karyn Shanks (26:58) How can you sleep if you're vigilant? Like if you have to be watching and scanning and aware and awake all at all times to stay safe. Right. Lyndsay Soprano (27:08) I haven't heard that explained to me that way before. I like it and I don't at the same time. Dr. Karyn Shanks (27:12) it not so it's not like I have insomnia this is what's wrong with me it's like no insomnia is part of this hypervigilant organization of my nervous system to keep me alive. Lyndsay Soprano (27:22) And to k yeah, surviving and s safety and survival, you know, component of it. Dr. Karyn Shanks (27:28) You probably don't need that organization anymore. It but it's so conditioned in your nervous system that it's more, well, how can we dismantle this and still stay safe? You know, it's like what do you need to dismantle that and still remain safe? Yeah. You know? Lyndsay Soprano (27:49) It's it's a tough question to answer for me for sure. And it is definitely my I feel like it's gonna be my life's work by the time I'm done with it. I want to want to help people through this stuff, man, you know? And one of the things that I love about your book and you is that you give such a balanced approach to things as well, where you don't poo poo Western medicine or, you know, like we were talking globally, but The Western medicine side that I don't know why there's been this great divide between them, why they won't chat with each other about it. Like doctors don't ever talk to us about nutrition unless you're going to a functional like yourself or you're going to an actual nutritionist. Our doctors don't do that. They spend 15 minutes with us, maybe, and they're like, here's four prescriptions. Let me know how you're doing in three months. Yep. I can tell you how I'm doing in three months. Worse. Cause now those medications cause all these other problems that now you have to take a pill for because they cause those problems. I don't know how anybody takes medications after they listen to the list of things at the end of the prescription commercials where they're like, they will cause 73,000 things and someone's like, That's what I'm gonna do, instead of drinking some water and exercising. You know. Dr. Karyn Shanks (29:07) Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (29:10) It's crazy. Dr. Karyn Shanks (29:13) I know. It's like we've been so conditioned to that that's how it is. Lyndsay Soprano (29:18) Yeah, and I mean that's how our medical system makes so much money, right? Dr. Karyn Shanks (29:25) Hundred percent. Lyndsay Soprano (29:26) Quick fix. Yeah. Dr. Karyn Shanks (29:28) That's a huge part of it. Yeah. Lyndsay Soprano (29:30) Yeah. Yeah. I am just loving everything about this episode today with you and being able to share more time with you because we only had a little bit in our meet and greet. And thank you for being here for me and for us. And it has been an absolute joy getting to know you through your writing. And your words truly align with the heart of what giving pain purpose is, which is helping people feel seen and understood and heard and empowered. after they've been told there's nothing more that they can do. And I just wanted to thank you for that gift that this book has become to me. Dr. Karyn Shanks (30:05) Thank you for that feedback. That was my intention. That was my intention. So thank you. Lyndsay Soprano (30:10) well done. Bravo. You did it. All right, my darling. Well, you guys need to pick up her book. It is called Unbroken. Reclaim your wholeness. It is incredible. It is a book that you can sit down in your backyard, have a pen, have some paper, get your highlighter out, get a box of tissues if you need it. Because I know I cried a little bit. You can find Karen at KarenShanksmd.com, but her name is K-A-R-Y-N-Shanks D dot com. She's on Insta and Facebook and LinkedIn. And her book again is Unbroken, Reclaim Your Wholeness. You can get it on Amazon, of course, like we get everything. And is there anything that you'd like to say before we hit the dusty trail here? No, just Dr. Karyn Shanks (30:54) Thank you for having me and thank you for your kind words and yeah, I hope you have me back sometime. Lyndsay Soprano (31:00) Absolutely. Hey, we're only on season five. I plan on doing this until I die. All right, guys. I matter, you matter, we matter, and we all matter together. And you are exclusively invited to share this unbroken VIP pain journey together. Let's get to the heart of how to heal with you by my side. Please follow Giving Pain Purpose wherever you digest your podcast content. We will be there. Visit us at givingpainpurpose.com and follow us on all the socials. Thanks for listening, my little VIPs. Catch you on the other side.