Latest / The Kenny Report / The Kenny Report | 16 September

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The Kenny Report | 16 September · The Kenny Report

0:02
Speaker 1: This is The Kenny Report.
0:06
Speaker 2: Thanks, Ed, and thank you for joining me.
0:08
Speaker 3: Tonight, one of our country's top security experts calls out
0:11
Speaker 3: the media for failing to report anti-Semitism and rising Islamist extremism.
0:17
Speaker 2: Labor's promises to.
0:18
Speaker 3: Keep our refugee intake at an artificial high now as
0:22
Speaker 3: it prepares to announce a new immigration policy. The West
0:26
Speaker 3: Australian government plays down the dilemma of Indigenous children left
0:29
Speaker 3: alone in public housing, Shadow Indigenous Minister Julian Lisa joins me. Also,
0:35
Speaker 3: immigration chaos in the UK with Esther Krakou, One Nation
0:39
Speaker 3: on the back foot with Tom Switzer and the Wednesday
0:41
Speaker 3: wrangle with Jamie and Justin.
0:43
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
0:48
Speaker 3: For many, many years on this station and elsewhere, I've
0:51
Speaker 3: highlighted and tackled Islamist extremism. And since my first program
0:56
Speaker 3: after the October the 7th atrocities nearly three years ago,
0:59
Speaker 3: I've railed against the anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism and Islamist extremism that
1:04
Speaker 3: we've seen on our streets. From the grotesque celebrations of
1:10
Speaker 3: Sheikh Ibrahim Dadoon at Lakemba on October the 8th, to
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Speaker 3: the sickening and threatening chants at the Opera House the
1:18
Speaker 3: following night, and the countless anti-Semitic attacks and hateful anti-Israeli
1:24
Speaker 3: protests since.
1:26
Speaker 2: And I've also shone a light on how.
1:28
Speaker 3: Jewish communities, congregations and schools have had to be shielded
1:32
Speaker 3: by heavy security and concrete barriers for protection. And all along,
1:37
Speaker 3: I've called out the media and political complicity in all
1:42
Speaker 3: of this. Too many have fuelled resentment with biased coverage
1:46
Speaker 3: or they've failed to report and confront the bile and
1:50
Speaker 3: extremism emerging all around us.
1:53
Speaker 2: Well, pleasingly, one of the most experienced and.
1:56
Speaker 3: Respected voices in national security matters has weighed in on
2:00
Speaker 3: this issue with some telling insights. Dennis Richardson, who headed ASIO,
2:06
Speaker 3: Defence and Foreign Affairs and has served as ambassador to
2:10
Speaker 3: the US, and conducted an early inquiry into intelligence before
2:14
Speaker 3: the Bondi massacre. Well, he spoke at the Lowy Institute
2:17
Speaker 3: Media Awards last night, and Richardson dared to focus on
2:22
Speaker 3: holes in this country's media coverage.
2:25
Speaker 4: If people who are here who have never been to
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Speaker 4: a Jewish school, you've got to go to a Jewish school.
2:33
Speaker 4: Because I'll tell you what, if you go to a
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Speaker 4: Jewish school, you'll think you're in the middle of Beirut,
2:40
Speaker 4: or you'll think You're in a part of the world
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Speaker 4: that you've never experienced before. Why weren't there journalists out
2:46
Speaker 4: there visiting Jewish schools and reporting on what was happening
2:51
Speaker 4: in our country? You don't address anything and you don't
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Speaker 4: deal with the issues by pretending they're not there and
3:02
Speaker 4: by not reporting things because it may give rise to
3:06
Speaker 4: social tensions.
3:08
Speaker 3: In his speech, Richardson addressed the failings that became evident
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Speaker 3: right back at that ugly Opera House protest.
3:16
Speaker 4: Much of the media focus on the 9 October demonstration
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Speaker 4: at the Opera House was on the precise words used
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Speaker 4: by the mob instead of on the appalling purpose and
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Speaker 4: nature of the demonstration per se.
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Speaker 2: The appalling purpose. Spot on.
3:35
Speaker 3: What a breath of fresh air to hear someone with
3:37
Speaker 3: authority speaking the obvious truth.
3:41
Speaker 4: I tend to agree with those who argue that following
3:45
Speaker 4: 7 October, we dropped the ball and failed to draw
3:50
Speaker 4: a line.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, as I've been saying, and a range of experts
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Speaker 3: and community leaders have been sharing on this program for years,
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Speaker 3: too many in the media, and by the way, too
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Speaker 3: many politicians and law enforcement officials, failed to call out
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Speaker 3: and challenge the emerging hatred of that was right in
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Speaker 3: front of our eyes and ears and should have been
4:11
Speaker 3: impossible to ignore.
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Speaker 4: I'm not implying a straight-line connection to the Bondi terrorist attack,
4:20
Speaker 4: as the ingredients that gave rise to that terrible incident
4:25
Speaker 4: are more complex. I do believe, however, that a more
4:30
Speaker 4: forceful and consistent response to the blatant anti-Semitism we saw
4:37
Speaker 4: in the immediate aftermath of 7 October may well have
4:41
Speaker 4: set a different tone and drawn a clearer line between
4:46
Speaker 4: the acceptable and the unacceptable.
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Speaker 3: I couldn't agree with Richardson more. He was speaking in
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Speaker 3: general terms about the media and public debate. He didn't
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Speaker 3: name anyone or any organisation, and I won't verbal him.
5:02
Speaker 3: But I believe the greatest failures here have come from
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Speaker 3: the ABC as our national broadcaster and Anthony Albanese as
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Speaker 3: our national leader. The ABC even criticised me back in
5:14
Speaker 3: 2024 for talking too much about anti-Semitism.
5:18
Speaker 2: And the Prime Minister?
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Speaker 3: Well, he's never stood up strongly and he's only made
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Speaker 3: things worse by rewarding the terrorists through his recognition.
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Speaker 2: Of the non-existent state of Palestine.
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Speaker 3: While they've failed in their duty to serve the nation
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Speaker 3: and protect our values, the hatred has been on the rise,
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Speaker 3: at least in part because of their weakness. We simply
5:41
Speaker 3: have to confront this stuff. Islamist extremists exist in our country.
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Speaker 3: They will harm us. They will kill us, just like
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Speaker 3: alleged jihadists killed 15 people when they allegedly targeted Jews
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Speaker 3: at Bondi. averting our eyes, pretending the threat is not there, well,
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Speaker 3: that won't make the Islamist extremists go away.
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Speaker 4: The sources of anti-Semitism must be addressed in a sensible
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Speaker 4: and mature way, including open discussion about extremist Islamists without
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Speaker 4: Australian Muslims as a whole feeling targeted. Mainstream Muslim leaders
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Speaker 4: should be at the centre of any such discussion. Pretending
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Speaker 4: the issue is not there simply leads to conspiracy theories
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Speaker 4: and plays into the hands of extremists at the other
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Speaker 4: end of the spectrum.
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Speaker 2: Well said, Dennis Richardson.
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Speaker 3: It should not need saying, but in the current climate,
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Speaker 3: we certainly do need these basic facts explained. made plain
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Speaker 3: because our government and media seem to have learned nothing.
7:02
Speaker 3: And the threat is as grave now as it was
7:05
Speaker 3: before Bondi. Let me give you an example of how
7:12
Speaker 3: some of this dynamic plays out. There was a disgusting
7:16
Speaker 3: verbal attack allegedly launched against a Muslim schoolgirl last week
7:21
Speaker 3: in Sydney. It was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald
7:24
Speaker 3: and they had no trouble mentioning that the girl was Muslim,
7:28
Speaker 3: which is fair enough because it was highly relevant. It
7:31
Speaker 3: was important because when you see video of this exchange,
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Speaker 3: you can see how the schoolgirl's religion was targeted in
7:38
Speaker 3: this horrible abuse.
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Speaker 1: You can call me what, everything you want.
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Speaker 5: Nothing's right.
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Speaker 1: What you call me? Says you. Yeah, call me what
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Speaker 1: you want.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 6: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: I was born here.
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Speaker 6: Oh, yeah?
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Speaker 4: That's disgusting.
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Speaker 2: What a vile disgrace.
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Speaker 3: Thankfully, this is a rare case and the man behind
8:15
Speaker 3: it has been arrested and charged. The girl's Muslim headdress
8:20
Speaker 3: needed to be mentioned in the coverage because it seemed
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Speaker 3: to draw the extra heat and hatred from this man
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Speaker 3: in a way it never should have. And we'll leave
8:28
Speaker 3: it for the courts now to deal with it. The
8:31
Speaker 3: media has no trouble, though, mentioning Islamophobia or Muslims in
8:36
Speaker 3: that context. But on other issues, they, along with our authorities,
8:41
Speaker 3: tend to get very shy about mentioning radical Islam.
8:45
Speaker 2: Or Islamist extremism.
8:47
Speaker 3: Have a listen to the Australian Federal Police Commissioner speaking
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Speaker 3: about radicalisation yesterday.
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Speaker 6: We've had young people as young as 12 under investigation
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Speaker 6: for terrorism offences. Now that should be shocking to all
9:01
Speaker 6: Australians and a lot of the time these are vulnerable
9:06
Speaker 6: young people who are either exploited or manipulated or radicalised online.
9:11
Speaker 7: We see how quickly.
9:13
Speaker 2: That is happening.
9:14
Speaker 6: You know, a number of years ago, you know, to
9:17
Speaker 6: radicalise someone used to take sort of months or potentially
9:20
Speaker 6: even years. We are now seeing it happen in a
9:23
Speaker 6: matter of days.
9:25
Speaker 3: What kind of radicalisation is she talking about? Catholic radicalisation?
9:31
Speaker 3: Presbyterian radicalisation? Perhaps it's vegan radicalisation. As Dennis Richardson intimated,
9:39
Speaker 3: we can't really combat Islamist extremism if we aren't even
9:43
Speaker 3: prepared to mention it. The Prime Minister avoids mouthing the
9:48
Speaker 3: words Islamist extremism or radical Islam. And as we saw yesterday,
9:52
Speaker 3: So does the AFP commissioner. We cower in the face
9:57
Speaker 3: of Islamist extremism and that's a deep, deep worry for
10:02
Speaker 3: our country. It's been revealed that Labor's planned reduction of
10:10
Speaker 3: our 20,000 refugee quota back to a more normal 13,750
10:15
Speaker 3: refugees per.
10:15
Speaker 2: Year was overturned on a whim by the Prime Minister.
10:23
Speaker 3: With Labor under pressure for One Nation and the Coalition
10:26
Speaker 3: over Runaway Immigration during a housing and cost of living crisis,
10:30
Speaker 3: there were leaks last month that the government would cut
10:33
Speaker 3: the migrant intake and, in particular, reduce the refugee intake
10:37
Speaker 3: down from 20,000. When this sparked a revolt from Labor's
10:42
Speaker 3: socialist left MPs, Anthony Albanese, their socialist left leader... quickly
10:48
Speaker 3: announced there would be no cut in the refugee intake.
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Speaker 3: Problem is that the budget papers already assumed it was
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Speaker 3: coming down, back to the.
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Speaker 2: $ 13, 750 figure.
11:00
Speaker 3: So the Coalition says this decision has cost taxpayers $ 7 billion.
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Speaker 8: Did the Treasurer or Cabinet approve the $ 7 billion humanitarian
11:13
Speaker 8: intake increase? Does the Prime Minister rule out any cut
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Speaker 8: to the humanitarian immigration intake?
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Speaker 9: I refer specifically to the last part of the question
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Speaker 9: about ruling out a cut.
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Speaker 10: This government when it came to office made clear that
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Speaker 10: we'd be boosting the humanitarian program to 20,000 places.
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Speaker 2: It remains at 20,000 places. That's a lot of refugees.
11:38
Speaker 3: As the broader immigration intake is cut, it means 10%
11:42
Speaker 3: or more of all arrivals will be refugees. Labor had
11:46
Speaker 3: planned to announce its new immigration policy six weeks ago,
11:49
Speaker 3: but internal dissent and confusion caused a delay.
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Speaker 2: After cancelling a National.
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Speaker 3: Press Club speech at short notice in early August, the
11:59
Speaker 3: Home Affairs Minister, Tony Burke, will reveal the policy tomorrow.
12:04
Speaker 3: Labor has been pushed kicking and screaming into a revised
12:08
Speaker 3: immigration policy. It has to cut immigration because the rate
12:14
Speaker 3: is far too high. We've added one and a half
12:17
Speaker 3: million people in four years. Even Canada's centre-left government cut
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Speaker 3: immigration drastically and now housing prices have levelled off and
12:27
Speaker 3: rents have fallen. But Labor here has an ideological and
12:32
Speaker 3: political fixation We'll see tomorrow exactly what they promise. And then,
12:41
Speaker 3: given their litany of broken promises and failed commitments, it'll
12:45
Speaker 3: be a matter of whether or not Labor's actions will ever.
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Speaker 2: Match their words.
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Speaker 3: We showed you the shame of Indigenous children suffering abuse
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Speaker 3: and neglect in Port Hedland in Western Australia's Pilbara last night,
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Speaker 3: courtesy of compelling reporting from The Australian.
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Speaker 2: Here's a reminder.
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Speaker 11: In this house behind me, we've discovered up to 15
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Speaker 11: children aged between 5 and 16 who've been living here
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Speaker 11: unsupervised for days at a time. Residents have complained to
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Speaker 11: police and to housing and the council, but so far nothing.
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Speaker 4: The parents leave them alone and bugger off, get drunk
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Speaker 4: and what else, and leave these kids, you know, it is.
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Speaker 1: Like It's inhumane what they're doing. And I have to
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Speaker 1: say it's.
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Speaker 4: Inhumane from DCP and other government institutions not to look
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Speaker 4: after that, to look away.
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Speaker 3: On the back of that, Senator Jacinta Nampajimba-Price blamed woke
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Speaker 3: policies for the lack of action to save these children.
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Speaker 12: These bureaucracies, as well as those in leadership, like to
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Speaker 12: prioritise a child's culture over... their actual safety and I've
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Speaker 12: said it for years and the child protection system is utterly,
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Speaker 12: it's morally bankrupt for starters and it's broken.
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Speaker 3: Well in the past 24 hours there have been a
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Speaker 3: couple of developments. Authorities have turned up at the homes
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Speaker 3: in question and they've conducted a bit of a tidy.
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Speaker 2: Up, removing rubbish and wrecked cars.
14:27
Speaker 3: And the West Australian Child Protection Minister made a flying
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Speaker 3: visit yesterday morning.
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Speaker 13: A public housing home in Frisbee Court, South Hedland. Squalid
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Speaker 13: conditions for young Aboriginal children, reportedly living there at times unsupervised.
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Speaker 13: The appalling circumstances prompting the Child Protection Minister to go
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Speaker 13: and see for herself.
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Speaker 9: Look, I've come up here today to find out answers,
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Speaker 9: to talk to the department, to talk to our community
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Speaker 9: partners and to talk to community.
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Speaker 13: Back in Perth this afternoon facing questions in Parliament.
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Speaker 14: What confidence can the people of Western Australia have in
15:01
Speaker 14: your department given they have ignored warning after warning after
15:07
Speaker 14: warning about the safety of these children?
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Speaker 9: I do have confidence that this family is getting the
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Speaker 9: supports that they need at this time.
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Speaker 3: That minister, by the way, denies that up to 15
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Speaker 3: children are often left unsupervised. Still, local residents have contacted
15:25
Speaker 3: me to say this sort of chaos and neglect is
15:28
Speaker 3: more the norm than the exception in this particular neighbourhood.
15:33
Speaker 3: The WA Premier, Roger Cook, said child protection is one
15:36
Speaker 3: of his highest priorities and there is no word yet
15:39
Speaker 3: on whether the Federal Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malindari McCarthy,
15:44
Speaker 3: is going to get involved. Let's go to the Shadow
15:47
Speaker 3: Minister for Indigenous Australians, Julian Lisa, joining us live from Canberra. Julian,
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Speaker 3: is this an issue where the Federal Minister should get involved?
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Speaker 3: We put questions to her and got no response.
15:58
Speaker 15: Yes, Chris, I can't believe she hasn't responded to questions here.
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Speaker 15: This issue is a national disgrace. There is no more
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Speaker 15: important issue than child safety. There have been massive failures
16:09
Speaker 15: in the West Australian Department of Child Protection. Ros Thomas,
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Speaker 15: the journalist from The Australian, has done a terrific job
16:15
Speaker 15: highlighting these things. When these stories first broke a couple
16:19
Speaker 15: of weeks ago about the murder of the Hawke children,
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Speaker 15: I called for there to be a coronial inquest into
16:24
Speaker 15: their murder. I cannot believe that there's been no inquest,
16:27
Speaker 15: and I call upon the WA government to do everything
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Speaker 15: that they can to have an inquest here, because an
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Speaker 15: internal investigation into child protection in Western Australia just won't
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Speaker 15: cut it.
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Speaker 2: There's federal money going into these communities.
16:38
Speaker 15: We need to see what the federal money is doing
16:41
Speaker 15: and we need to have the National Minister for Indigenous
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Speaker 15: Australians on the front foot here demanding answers from her
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Speaker 15: West Australian colleagues.
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Speaker 3: Well, the inquest will be useful because there's clearly claims
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Speaker 3: of really strong warnings here being ignored before those children
16:56
Speaker 3: were killed. And now you've got Ros Thomas and the
16:59
Speaker 3: Australians reporting, really issuing warnings about the future of other children.
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Speaker 3: So it's time to act, isn't it, on those warnings
17:07
Speaker 3: rather than try and play a political protection game.
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Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
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Speaker 15: There are clearly systemic failures in the West Australian Department
17:16
Speaker 15: of Child Protection. And I hate the idea that the
17:18
Speaker 15: Minister will have gone up there to have seen what
17:21
Speaker 15: amounts to a Potemkin village, a cleaned-up set of houses,
17:25
Speaker 15: rather than seeing the real situation there, which we've seen on.
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Speaker 2: The Australians' footage there.
17:30
Speaker 15: The idea that Australian children are being left in these conditions...
17:34
Speaker 15: should worry every Australian parent in this country. I won't
17:37
Speaker 15: stand for it as the Shadow Minister for Indigenous Australians.
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Speaker 15: It's why I've been so strong in calling for a
17:43
Speaker 15: coronial inquest so we can get to the bottom of
17:45
Speaker 15: the systemic failures in the Child Protection Department. And I
17:48
Speaker 15: want to see the Federal Minister there confronting her state
17:52
Speaker 15: colleague and ensuring that if federal monies are going into
17:55
Speaker 15: this community, that they're doing something about fixing the child
17:58
Speaker 15: protection system.
17:59
Speaker 3: Now, we're going to see Labor's immigration policy tomorrow. Surely
18:02
Speaker 3: they need to drastically reduce our immigration intake. But the
18:06
Speaker 3: only thing we know for certain is that the planned
18:08
Speaker 3: reduction in the refugee intake from 20,000, a temporary lift
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Speaker 3: to 20,000, down to the normal rate of 13,750, won't
18:13
Speaker 3: be happening.
18:13
Speaker 2: They're going to keep it at 20,000. Your response?
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Speaker 15: Well, Chris, we know Labor can't manage immigration. We saw
18:25
Speaker 15: it when they were last in government. We've seen it
18:26
Speaker 15: again this time. They haven't met a target they've set.
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Speaker 15: They've always overshot them. They've lost control of our migration
18:33
Speaker 15: system altogether. And the problem is, as you pointed out...
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Speaker 15: You know, Labor is being led.
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Speaker 2: By its far-left caucus.
18:40
Speaker 15: I mean, Tony Burke wanted to make announcements about immigration
18:43
Speaker 15: policy two weeks ago, but he was squished by his
18:46
Speaker 15: own caucus. And here they've squished them again in terms
18:49
Speaker 15: of cutting refugee intake back to the usual method.
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Speaker 3: Now, I believe the bells are ringing and you need
18:56
Speaker 3: to head to the chamber for a division.
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Speaker 2: So I've just been told. I'll get your thoughts on
19:00
Speaker 2: Dennis Richardson later. No doubt you'll agree with him. Thanks
19:03
Speaker 2: for joining us, Julie and Lisa there.
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Speaker 3: He's the Shadow Minister federally for Indigenous Australians. And when
19:09
Speaker 3: the bells ring in Parliament, you better turn up in
19:11
Speaker 3: your chamber.
19:12
Speaker 2: You might be needed.
19:13
Speaker 3: Your number might be needed for the next vote. Let's
19:16
Speaker 3: go to Tom Switzer now, who's a columnist with the
19:19
Speaker 3: Australian newspaper. I want to stick to matters federal politics, Tom,
19:23
Speaker 3: because it's been revealed today in extensive reporting that Chris
19:28
Speaker 3: Bowen and Anthony Albanese and their green-left government, who have
19:31
Speaker 3: set these targets.
19:33
Speaker 2: For renewable energy and.
19:35
Speaker 3: emissions reductions, and despite all the billions wasted and all
19:39
Speaker 3: the chaos with our electricity grid, they're going to fall
19:42
Speaker 3: way short of their own targets.
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Speaker 16: Well, we know that Chris Bowen, Chris, reflects the thoughts
19:47
Speaker 16: and attitudes of the party faithful of not only the
19:50
Speaker 16: Labor Party but the Green Party when he champions net
19:54
Speaker 16: zero policies.
19:55
Speaker 1: But this latest news just provides.
19:57
Speaker 16: More evidence that, to put it mildly and politely, he
20:01
Speaker 16: has clearly underestimated the very real difficulty of decarbonising the
20:06
Speaker 16: Australian economy at a rapid rate. I mean, we've talked
20:09
Speaker 16: about this before on this program, Chris, but Bowen, with
20:12
Speaker 16: whom I went to university in the early 1990s, you know,
20:16
Speaker 16: he's a bit like the student ideologue in action. You know,
20:19
Speaker 16: he's obsessive in pursuit of goals. He brokes no compromise.
20:23
Speaker 16: He's cavalier when it comes to costs. And he's clearly
20:26
Speaker 16: deaf to global trends. I mean, all around the world,
20:29
Speaker 16: nations are walking back their climate commitments, which is why
20:33
Speaker 16: you won't get a legally binding, verifiable and enforceable global
20:37
Speaker 16: deal to slash emissions.
20:39
Speaker 3: Well, it's going to be embarrassing for him. He's lobbied
20:41
Speaker 3: hard to get the joint COP presidency. He's not hosting
20:44
Speaker 3: the meeting, but he's got this co-presidency gig. He's going
20:48
Speaker 3: to jump around the Pacific hosting meetings if anyone turns up,
20:51
Speaker 3: and yet he's going to have to level with everyone
20:53
Speaker 3: and say that the lofty goals he's set won't be
20:57
Speaker 3: met by Australia. But let's bring it back to the
20:59
Speaker 3: domestic and the amount of money he's wasting here.
21:02
Speaker 2: Listen to his latest scheme. This is portable solar power.
21:06
Speaker 2: Have a look.
21:08
Speaker 17: Hey everyone, this is a quick message for renters and
21:10
Speaker 17: apartment dwellers. A lot of people have raised with me
21:12
Speaker 17: that it's hard for renters and apartment dwellers to get
21:14
Speaker 17: the benefits of.
21:15
Speaker 2: Solar and batteries, and that's true.
21:16
Speaker 17: So I'm really pleased to be able to tell you
21:18
Speaker 17: that yesterday the states and territories agreed to work with
21:21
Speaker 17: us to make plug-in solar legal in Australia. That's solar
21:25
Speaker 17: and batteries that renters will be able to move.
21:29
Speaker 2: From house to house, apartment to apartment.
21:31
Speaker 17: There's a lot of work to do to make sure
21:33
Speaker 17: that it's all safe and there's standards.
21:37
Speaker 3: Tom, tell me this is not serious. Is this April
21:40
Speaker 3: Fool's Day? You're going to rip the solar panels off
21:42
Speaker 3: your roof and a big battery, put them in the
21:44
Speaker 3: back of the ute and take them to the next flat?
21:47
Speaker 16: Well, if it was so cheap, why does it require
21:49
Speaker 16: an ever-growing taxpayer subsidy?
21:52
Speaker 1: When you say money, waste it. It's taxpayers' money.
21:56
Speaker 16: This home battery subsidy scheme is supporting units about twice
21:59
Speaker 16: the cost of what was originally conceived and only three
22:03
Speaker 16: of the scheme's 136 approved manufacturers are actually Australian.
22:08
Speaker 1: So bear that in mind.
22:09
Speaker 16: We're increasingly dependent on China for our trade, but we're
22:12
Speaker 16: also dependent on China for wind and solar panels.
22:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is just extraordinary. The reckoning is going to come, but.
22:19
Speaker 3: It keeps being delayed and it's going to be horrible
22:21
Speaker 3: when it does come. I want to go to more
22:24
Speaker 3: on domestic politics now and One Nation. As we know,
22:27
Speaker 3: the story of the year has been the dominance of
22:30
Speaker 3: One Nation in political debate and in the polls, but
22:33
Speaker 3: it's been a pretty telling few days in which Pauline
22:35
Speaker 3: Hanson very uncharacteristically has stepped back and apologised.
22:40
Speaker 2: Here's a reminder.
22:41
Speaker 5: Of course I do.
22:44
Speaker 7: Of course I do.
22:45
Speaker 5: I don't think he's a traitor. And I've never called
22:48
Speaker 5: him a traitor. I was referring to House Commission at
22:51
Speaker 5: that time. So if he's taking offence to it, well,
22:53
Speaker 5: I'm sorry for that. If I've offended people by using that, yes,
22:57
Speaker 5: I will apologise for that.
22:59
Speaker 3: Apologies and backward steps from Pauline Hanson.
23:02
Speaker 2: Will that damage her brand?
23:04
Speaker 16: Well, our colleague Dennis Shanahan in The Australian has a
23:07
Speaker 16: piece today saying, you know, asking the question of whether
23:10
Speaker 16: this will be a test of her leadership, you know,
23:13
Speaker 16: whether she Her supporters, the One Nation supporters, see her
23:17
Speaker 16: apology as a sign of strength or weakness. We are
23:21
Speaker 16: living in very volatile times, Chris. You may recall, and
23:24
Speaker 16: we're catching up with the United States. Ten years ago,
23:26
Speaker 16: you and I talked about 2015, 2016, when Donald Trump
23:30
Speaker 16: said many outrageous things on the campaign trail. And we
23:34
Speaker 16: seasoned observers of American politics thought this will destroy Donald Trump.
23:38
Speaker 16: But you resonated with a lot of people who feel
23:42
Speaker 16: they're the forgotten people, people.
23:43
Speaker 1: Who are losers of globalisation, they're losers of growing inequality.
23:47
Speaker 2: Sure, but he didn't back down. Trump never apologises.
23:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. That's the point.
23:53
Speaker 16: You see, maybe she shouldn't have backed down. I don't
23:55
Speaker 16: know if it matters whether she backed down or not.
23:58
Speaker 16: I think that the widespread discontent, and it's going to
24:00
Speaker 16: get worse in this country over the next few years
24:03
Speaker 16: because of Labor's mismanagement of the economy and declining productivity,
24:06
Speaker 16: I think she's going to resonate with those people regardless
24:09
Speaker 16: of these kinds of gaffes.
24:11
Speaker 2: I think you're right to a large degree.
24:12
Speaker 3: There'll be a lot to unfold, but a lot of
24:14
Speaker 3: people have made up their minds that the major parties
24:17
Speaker 3: have deserted them and she is their person, thick or thin.
24:21
Speaker 2: But let me go to another example of.
24:23
Speaker 3: Where there are political firefights and distractions for One Nation.
24:27
Speaker 3: This today from their New South Wales leader.
24:31
Speaker 2: I poorly worded that.
24:33
Speaker 18: The One Nation policy is pretty simple. We're against sex-selective
24:36
Speaker 18: abortion and late-term abortion, that's it. It's not about a
24:39
Speaker 18: blanket ban. You call it a foot-in-the-mouth moment, it seems
24:41
Speaker 18: to be the going term.
24:43
Speaker 5: How prevalent do you think sex-selective abortion is in New
24:46
Speaker 5: South Wales?
24:46
Speaker 18: Well, higher than you would imagine, up to potentially 40%
24:49
Speaker 18: in New South Wales.
24:50
Speaker 5: Do you have a ballpark idea of how many of
24:52
Speaker 5: these sex-selective abortions do you think happen in New South Wales?
24:56
Speaker 18: I'll come back to you with the exact number.
24:59
Speaker 3: Well, Tom, apart from the point of having to correct
25:02
Speaker 3: himself and not knowing exactly what the policy is there,
25:05
Speaker 3: the issue here is.
25:06
Speaker 2: An abortion debate.
25:08
Speaker 3: Is that really what One Nation wants if they're going
25:10
Speaker 3: to be looking to take seats around the state?
25:13
Speaker 16: Look, Chris, you and I have talked about this before
25:15
Speaker 16: on the News 24 documentary, The Fight for the Right.
25:19
Speaker 16: One of the weaknesses for Pauline Hanson and indeed many
25:22
Speaker 16: of her candidates is that they're incapable of understatement and
25:26
Speaker 16: they make the.
25:27
Speaker 1: Kind of statements... and policy.
25:29
Speaker 16: Announcements, they're a distraction from what should be the main game,
25:32
Speaker 16: cost of living pressures. And you would think that if
25:36
Speaker 16: this continues, where you have politicians like these One Nation
25:39
Speaker 16: types making these kind of mistakes and changing the tone
25:44
Speaker 16: of the debate, that would hurt them. But again, I
25:47
Speaker 16: go back to the central point. There is widespread dissatisfaction
25:50
Speaker 16: with both Labor and the coalition, and One Nation still
25:53
Speaker 16: stands to be the beneficiary.
25:54
Speaker 1: Of that discontent.
25:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubt about that.
25:56
Speaker 3: And there's no doubt also that their prime asset is
26:00
Speaker 3: Pauline Hanson. And while she's front and centre, the surge continues.
26:05
Speaker 3: But as she gets more MPs and candidates around the country,
26:08
Speaker 3: we get more people under the banner of One Nation
26:11
Speaker 3: creating these distractions.
26:12
Speaker 1: Exactly. Absolutely. And that's going to be a real problem
26:15
Speaker 1: for her.
26:15
Speaker 16: But again, the counter argument is that she's a beneficiary
26:19
Speaker 16: of the widespread discontent. You don't want to underestimate this
26:21
Speaker 16: because it's the same thing that's happening in Britain and
26:23
Speaker 16: with Nigel Farage's Reform Party, same thing with Marine Le
26:27
Speaker 16: Pen in France, and indeed Germany's AFD tapping into those
26:31
Speaker 16: widespread anxieties, particularly among a lot of working-class voters.
26:35
Speaker 2: Spot on, Tom. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Tom
26:37
Speaker 2: Switzer there. You can read his stuff in the Australian newspaper.
26:40
Speaker 2: We'll take a break.
26:41
Speaker 3: On the other side of that, I want to check
26:42
Speaker 3: in on Iran and find out what's happening there as
26:45
Speaker 3: the war continues and there's a lot of talk about
26:48
Speaker 3: social unrest within the Islamic Republic of Iran. OK, let's
26:57
Speaker 3: update the situation in Iran. As it happens, today marks
27:01
Speaker 3: four years since the death in custody recall of Masa Amini,
27:06
Speaker 3: who was arrested by Iran's morality police, apparently for not
27:09
Speaker 3: wearing her hijab correctly. The 22-year-old's death sparked the Women, Life,
27:15
Speaker 3: Freedom protest movement and provoked worldwide outrage, of course.
27:19
Speaker 2: Here's a reminder, thanks to CNN.
27:24
Speaker 19: The final resting place of Massa Jina Amini, a place
27:28
Speaker 19: of mourning and now of protest. Amini's name has become
27:35
Speaker 19: synonymous with a movement that is posing the biggest threat
27:38
Speaker 19: to the Iranian regime in years.
27:41
Speaker 2: Sparked in the.
27:42
Speaker 19: Wake of the 22-year-old's death while in the custody of
27:45
Speaker 19: Iran's notorious Morality Police, detained for allegedly contravening the country's
27:50
Speaker 19: strict dress code. But now, as the Iranian people commemorate
27:54
Speaker 19: 40 days since Amini's death, a significant marker of both
27:59
Speaker 19: mourning and remembrance, the movement has grown to become something
28:02
Speaker 19: far more wide-reaching than its initial call for women's rights.
28:07
Speaker 3: Joining me now is Iranian human rights advocate Tina Kordestrami.
28:11
Speaker 2: Good to see you again, Tina. It's a shocking anniversary.
28:14
Speaker 3: Do you expect there will be events that market and
28:19
Speaker 3: protests in Iran over this anniversary?
28:23
Speaker 20: I think so. We're going to have a lot of
28:25
Speaker 20: events within the diaspora. We have one this weekend as
28:27
Speaker 20: well in our Sydney Martin place. As we just saw
28:32
Speaker 20: on the CNN report, this wasn't only about women's rights.
28:37
Speaker 20: It was a horrible loss of Gina, a Kurdish Iranian woman,
28:42
Speaker 20: but This is what we see every day in Iran.
28:44
Speaker 20: We see so many of these murders taking place, unfair
28:47
Speaker 20: prosecutions taking place. And today, four years on from what happened,
28:53
Speaker 20: we're seeing an Iran where women walk the streets with,
28:57
Speaker 20: you know, not wearing a hijab. Some are still wearing
28:59
Speaker 20: a hijab. But we are seeing a lot more freedom
29:02
Speaker 20: within the streets. And that is not because of the regime.
29:04
Speaker 20: It's because of the people getting up and saying, we're
29:07
Speaker 20: sick of you suppressing us.
29:09
Speaker 2: Well, this is what that report didn't go to.
29:11
Speaker 3: But, of course, after the death and the protests came
29:16
Speaker 3: the brutal crackdown. And the question today is what's happening
29:21
Speaker 3: with those issues in Iran, especially while the blockade goes
29:25
Speaker 3: on and the war is at a stalemate, but the
29:28
Speaker 3: economic blockade is going on. Is there much intel out
29:31
Speaker 3: of Iran about what the social situation's like and about
29:34
Speaker 3: the economic hardship because of the blockade?
29:37
Speaker 20: Nothing has improved, it's gotten worsened. The theocracy hasn't changed
29:41
Speaker 20: at all. The theocracy doesn't get impacted by the war.
29:44
Speaker 20: We have had thousands, if not hundreds, of people executed
29:48
Speaker 20: this year. We are seeing more and more of our
29:50
Speaker 20: political prisoners being sent down to the execution line. We
29:55
Speaker 20: are seeing a lot of people contacting us from inside
29:57
Speaker 20: the country pleading us to help them out and, you know,
30:02
Speaker 20: try to get them out of the country by any means.
30:04
Speaker 20: But it's just not possible, especially right now with Australia
30:07
Speaker 20: and how strict it's become with migrants, especially from Iran.
30:11
Speaker 3: See, this gets to the heart of whether the war
30:14
Speaker 3: is achieving any of its aims, right? Because if the
30:18
Speaker 3: regime is just as strong as it ever was in Iran,
30:21
Speaker 3: then some of the key aims, of course, are not
30:24
Speaker 3: being achieved.
30:26
Speaker 20: It's never been about the people, and that's become very
30:28
Speaker 20: clear to us. We Iranians have never felt more alone
30:32
Speaker 20: than now. We have so many political leaders across the
30:35
Speaker 20: globe talking about Iran, using it as a discussion point
30:39
Speaker 20: to push their own agendas forward, whether there's an election
30:42
Speaker 20: coming up or whatnot. What's being missed is the civilians.
30:46
Speaker 20: It's what's happening within the country. And now, within the diaspora,
30:50
Speaker 20: we are only leaning on one another. In Australia, for example,
30:55
Speaker 20: why do we still have the embassy open? We have
30:58
Speaker 20: proved time and time again. We had an inquiry at
31:00
Speaker 20: the beginning of this year where community leaders, professionals, told
31:04
Speaker 20: the government directly, we do not want this embassy open.
31:07
Speaker 2: So this is the point. They've expelled the ambassador.
31:10
Speaker 3: The Australian government has expelled the ambassador because Iran has
31:13
Speaker 3: been linked to terror attacks in Australia, including that firebombing of.
31:18
Speaker 2: The Adas synagogue in Melbourne. Yet the embassy is still open.
31:22
Speaker 3: With people running it who obviously support the Iranian regime.
31:26
Speaker 3: And the concern would be, wouldn't it, that those people
31:29
Speaker 3: running the embassy in Australia are helping to keep an
31:33
Speaker 3: eye on Iranians in Australia or intimidate them?
31:36
Speaker 20: Definitely. Those of us who are well-known activists, we are
31:41
Speaker 20: constantly worried about our safety. We are talking with one
31:44
Speaker 20: another because, again, we don't have anyone to go to
31:46
Speaker 20: for our safety. But even when we saw what happened
31:49
Speaker 20: earlier this year with the football players... Their location wouldn't
31:53
Speaker 20: have become exposed if it wasn't for the embassy.
31:57
Speaker 7: You know, why.
31:58
Speaker 20: If the embassy wasn't open, there would be no report
32:00
Speaker 20: made to them regarding the girls' location.
32:03
Speaker 19: Yep.
32:03
Speaker 3: What does the Australian government give you as the reason
32:06
Speaker 3: for allowing the Iranian embassy to remain open?
32:09
Speaker 20: We never get a proper response, but we hear from,
32:14
Speaker 20: you know, word of mouth here and there that potentially
32:16
Speaker 20: one reason is because of America wanting to conduct its
32:19
Speaker 20: work for the embassy. But, again, that's not a proper
32:22
Speaker 20: official response that we have received.
32:25
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us, Tina. I appreciate it, that update.
32:27
Speaker 3: Tina Kudrastami there. We've got to take a break. I've
32:30
Speaker 3: got to get my equipment sorted out here. But after
32:32
Speaker 3: the break, we're going to check in on migration chaos
32:35
Speaker 3: in the UK again, with France helping out, apparently. Esther
32:39
Speaker 3: Krakow joins me. We'll go to Esther Kraku in the
32:47
Speaker 3: UK in just a moment. But before we do, have
32:49
Speaker 3: a look at this from the Australian newspaper, detailing how
32:53
Speaker 3: French authorities are actually helping illegal immigrants make the crossing
32:57
Speaker 3: to the UK.
32:59
Speaker 10: The French authorities not only watched what was going on,
33:03
Speaker 10: fearing that if they intervened, the migrants might drown, but
33:08
Speaker 10: they also actively assisted in pointing out the best areas
33:13
Speaker 10: for the dinghy to come in closer to shore where
33:16
Speaker 10: it's more shallow and that the migrants might find it
33:20
Speaker 10: easier to get on board. I'm here on this beach
33:24
Speaker 10: in just north of Calais to wait for the latest
33:27
Speaker 10: migrant launch. We've seen one yesterday where more than 100
33:31
Speaker 10: migrants clambered on board in what was quite a chaotic
33:35
Speaker 10: and frenetic scene.
33:36
Speaker 1: What happens is.
33:37
Speaker 10: That a big mega dinghy, which can carry nearly 200 migrants,
33:42
Speaker 10: will come down the coast and do several pickups on
33:46
Speaker 10: the way. It's a very organised operation.
33:50
Speaker 2: Incredible stuff.
33:50
Speaker 3: Let's go to the UK now and catch up with
33:52
Speaker 3: writer and broadcaster Esther Kraku.
33:54
Speaker 2: Esther, thanks for joining us.
33:55
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of reporting, understandably, about this in
33:59
Speaker 3: the UK. What's been occurring between the British government and
34:03
Speaker 3: the French government about these claims?
34:07
Speaker 21: Well, clearly that this is not going on and that
34:10
Speaker 21: the Andy Burnham government still insists that the one in
34:13
Speaker 21: one out deal has been effective and that numbers are
34:17
Speaker 21: coming down and therefore there's nothing to see here, folks,
34:19
Speaker 21: nothing to worry about. But clearly that's not the case.
34:22
Speaker 21: I mean, we've been seeing reports, local news reports from
34:25
Speaker 21: France that are showing that a lot of local residents
34:29
Speaker 21: are happy that the police are collaborating to get these
34:31
Speaker 21: people out. Because you have to remember, if these people
34:34
Speaker 21: do not cross the channel, they are stuck in France.
34:37
Speaker 21: And the French have to deal with them and the
34:38
Speaker 21: French don't want to deal with them. It's, you know,
34:40
Speaker 21: their own electoral headache. You have mothers saying that they're
34:44
Speaker 21: getting their children some personal protection training, so to speak,
34:49
Speaker 21: some sort of physical combat training to try and assuage
34:53
Speaker 21: their fears that they come into contact with these migrants. But,
34:55
Speaker 21: you know, across parts of northern France, it just looks terrible.
34:59
Speaker 21: There are loads of these camps that are preparing to
35:02
Speaker 21: come from the shores of Calais across the English Channel
35:08
Speaker 21: into Britain. And so they're basically camps out there and
35:11
Speaker 21: they're an eyesore.
35:13
Speaker 13: A lot of local.
35:13
Speaker 21: Residents feel unsafe. So the idea that it was just
35:17
Speaker 21: going to be down to paying the French a few
35:19
Speaker 21: hundred million pounds for them to tackle this is for
35:21
Speaker 21: the birds.
35:21
Speaker 7: And everyone knew it.
35:22
Speaker 21: Everyone knew that this one-in-one-out deal, this 500 million pounds
35:26
Speaker 21: we apparently have to keep renewing to send to the
35:28
Speaker 21: French was never going to amount to anything. But then
35:30
Speaker 21: now we have this bombshell news from the Home Secretary,
35:33
Speaker 21: Shabana Mahmood, that to send back 1,400 migrants from France,
35:39
Speaker 21: it's cost the taxpayer 78 million pounds, about 56,000 pounds
35:44
Speaker 21: per head, which is absolutely ludicrous. It should not cost
35:47
Speaker 21: a single penny other than the fact that once they
35:50
Speaker 21: come onto the shore, they are immediately sent back on
35:52
Speaker 21: the same day and there's no questions about it. But
35:55
Speaker 21: this government is treating this issue like a paper exercise.
35:58
Speaker 21: And so I'd love to be a fly on the
36:00
Speaker 21: wall to hear the kinds of meetings they have about
36:01
Speaker 21: how they're going to pretend to the British public like
36:03
Speaker 21: they're taking this seriously.
36:05
Speaker 2: Such a mess. You've got to be strong.
36:07
Speaker 3: And if you're not strong, people see that weakness and
36:10
Speaker 3: they exploit it.
36:12
Speaker 2: It's just so obvious. Meanwhile, with Keir Starmer.
36:15
Speaker 3: Leaving Parliament, the Greens leader is going to run.
36:19
Speaker 2: For his seat. Let's have a listen to Polanski.
36:23
Speaker 22: Miranam Zak-Polanski-E, Ome, Holben and St Pancras, Kasik Kiliya, Karah.
36:34
Speaker 3: So where is this Greens Party leader now, Esther, and
36:37
Speaker 3: does he have a chance of taking his seat off Labor?
36:41
Speaker 1: Well, that.
36:42
Speaker 21: What you just saw there was an advert in Urdu. Now,
36:45
Speaker 21: you and I may have another impression that in England
36:47
Speaker 21: they speak English, but not according to Green leader Zach Polanski.
36:51
Speaker 21: He is now campaigning in a foreign language, which is
36:54
Speaker 21: a stunt they pulled back in the February by-election that
36:59
Speaker 21: we saw they were putting out flyers in Urdu. And
37:02
Speaker 21: apparently this is diversity being our strength. Now, the whole
37:05
Speaker 21: thing has been a complete clown show from the Labour
37:07
Speaker 21: candidate that the Labour Party put up to Zach Polanski
37:11
Speaker 21: now advertising in Urdu. But this is the rise of
37:15
Speaker 21: sectarianism that we're seeing in British politics. And we have
37:19
Speaker 21: national political parties that are treating this country like a
37:21
Speaker 21: doll to be fought over. And these are the kinds
37:23
Speaker 21: of tactics that they're happy to use, regardless of whether
37:26
Speaker 21: it's tearing the country apart or regardless of whether it's
37:28
Speaker 21: actually a good thing for the country's future to have
37:31
Speaker 21: politicians campaigning in a different language. Now, I can assure
37:35
Speaker 21: you that this wouldn't be the case in the country
37:39
Speaker 21: that actually speaks Urdu. They definitely wouldn't be campaigning to
37:42
Speaker 21: target Urdu. white men from South Shields.
37:45
Speaker 6: Yeah.
37:45
Speaker 21: But it's only in England where our politicians think that
37:48
Speaker 21: this is a good thing. And, you know, we laugh
37:50
Speaker 21: about it, but it's actually quite sad and horrifying to see.
37:52
Speaker 2: Well, it's a worry. It's a deep worry.
37:54
Speaker 3: And are there enough Urdu speakers in that electorate that
37:58
Speaker 3: it might make a difference as well?
38:00
Speaker 21: Well, this is the claim. This is the assumption. But again,
38:05
Speaker 21: you have to think, if you have to advertise to
38:08
Speaker 21: Urdu speakers in Urdu to get them to vote for you.
38:10
Speaker 2: Then really- Something's gone wrong.
38:12
Speaker 21: Should they be voting in the first place?
38:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a worry. Don't worry.
38:17
Speaker 3: Britain has all the warnings up in lights for us,
38:20
Speaker 3: but Australia still goes down the same path.
38:24
Speaker 2: We should be putting the brakes on urgently.
38:26
Speaker 3: Let me go to a television ad that I've played
38:28
Speaker 3: a couple of times now. It's my favourite ad on television,
38:32
Speaker 3: wherever we run it, but I still don't know what
38:34
Speaker 3: it's for.
38:34
Speaker 2: Have a look.
38:37
Speaker 7: Think you know sports?
38:39
Speaker 6: Prove it.
38:40
Speaker 2: Novogaz.
38:44
Speaker 7: So they wanted to show just sports.
38:46
Speaker 20: You can trade this sport.
38:52
Speaker 1: And this sport.
38:54
Speaker 4: How about this?
38:57
Speaker 7: This sport too.
39:00
Speaker 3: So as it is in Australia and America, Esther, that
39:03
Speaker 3: adds creating a lot of controversy in the UK.
39:07
Speaker 22: Why?
39:09
Speaker 21: I have no idea, but I am the president of
39:12
Speaker 21: the Sydney Sweeney is so hot fan club and you'll
39:15
Speaker 21: never hear a negative word out of me. Clearly, the
39:18
Speaker 21: people that think this is an affront to women in
39:21
Speaker 21: sports have nothing to say about literal men in women's sports.
39:25
Speaker 21: So I'm choosing not to take them seriously and I'm
39:27
Speaker 21: going to enjoy that for what it is for as
39:29
Speaker 21: long as Sydney Sweeney is. is going to continue to
39:31
Speaker 21: grace our screens with such softcore porn, basically.
39:34
Speaker 3: It is softcore porn and this is the killer point
39:37
Speaker 3: you make. There's so many on the left are happy
39:39
Speaker 3: for men to pretend.
39:41
Speaker 2: To be women and compete in women's sport.
39:43
Speaker 3: Now they're outraged that someone who is obviously a woman
39:47
Speaker 3: should appear like this.
39:48
Speaker 2: Let's listen to British... Sprinter Amy Hunt.
39:52
Speaker 23: We really want to show that it's about what your
39:54
Speaker 23: body can do and not so much what it looks like.
39:56
Speaker 23: I think when we see the stats of 64% of
40:00
Speaker 23: young girls drop out of exercise and sport before they
40:02
Speaker 23: reach the age of 16, we don't need to place
40:05
Speaker 23: any kind of barrier whatsoever in their way in terms
40:07
Speaker 23: of providing the opportunity and the empowerment for them to
40:10
Speaker 23: still exercise.
40:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
40:14
Speaker 3: It's a fraught discussion, I feel, for female athletes. But
40:17
Speaker 3: you can actually look good and be a great athlete too.
40:20
Speaker 3: My favourite team in the Olympics is the Jamaican women's
40:22
Speaker 3: sprint team.
40:24
Speaker 2: Exactly.
40:25
Speaker 21: And these are the same people, I have to point out,
40:28
Speaker 21: that were cheering and shouting like banshees when Caitlyn Jenner
40:32
Speaker 21: appeared on the cover of a magazine in a bustier.
40:35
Speaker 21: So I don't want to hear anything about what your
40:37
Speaker 21: body can do. Sidney Sweeney's body can clearly do quite
40:39
Speaker 21: a lot and we are all enjoying it. So I'm
40:42
Speaker 21: not having any of it.
40:43
Speaker 2: Esther Krakow, she's even more of a Sydney Sweeney fan
40:46
Speaker 2: than I am. Thanks for joining us, Esther. We'll catch
40:48
Speaker 2: you next week. We're going to take a break.
40:51
Speaker 3: On the other side, all the opening acts for Ed
40:54
Speaker 3: Sheeran's US tour have quit over this pro-Palestinian malarkey. The
40:59
Speaker 3: Wednesday Wrangle, up next. Let's get into the Wednesday Wrangle
41:08
Speaker 3: now with Jamie Johnson, host of the Just Jamie podcast.
41:11
Speaker 3: And Justin Smith, of course, broadcaster, author and commentator. Joining
41:16
Speaker 3: us from Melbourne, let's start with, just for something different,
41:21
Speaker 3: Pauline Hanson.
41:22
Speaker 2: And, of course, one of the.
41:24
Speaker 3: Big controversies this week, Jamie, is from a podcast you
41:28
Speaker 3: recorded with.
41:29
Speaker 2: Pauline a year ago.
41:29
Speaker 7: I was wondering if you were going to mention that.
41:31
Speaker 1: It was me!
41:32
Speaker 10: It was you!
41:33
Speaker 2: And this is when... Well, let's show it again. This
41:35
Speaker 2: is when Pauline mentioned the P word.
41:39
Speaker 7: Their most primitive race on Earth.
41:41
Speaker 5: And we're supposed to be holding up and saying what
41:44
Speaker 5: they've achieved.
41:45
Speaker 1: They've achieved nothing.
41:47
Speaker 2: Now, you must have thought that was pretty controversial at
41:49
Speaker 2: the time.
41:49
Speaker 3: Were you surprised it didn't create much of a storm then,
41:52
Speaker 3: but yet a year later it does?
41:54
Speaker 8: Yeah, I have to.
41:55
Speaker 7: Admit, this was part of a much bigger conversation.
41:58
Speaker 9: I actually listened to the podcast again driving in here tonight,
42:01
Speaker 9: and that's part of a seven-minute conversation about the school curriculum.
42:05
Speaker 7: That's how we get into that.
42:07
Speaker 6: Um.
42:08
Speaker 9: I don't know, she often says things that you go, ooh,
42:10
Speaker 9: when she says it. And that was part of her
42:12
Speaker 9: apology this week, right, where she's like, I don't mean
42:14
Speaker 9: to offend people.
42:15
Speaker 7: I sometimes put my foot in it.
42:18
Speaker 9: Look, Justin, you think every single thing she says is crap.
42:21
Speaker 7: It's how you started the segment last week.
42:23
Speaker 2: It's a pretty horrible thing to say, a primitive race.
42:26
Speaker 10: It is.
42:26
Speaker 2: Look, the word primitive, you know, I rechecked the dictionary.
42:29
Speaker 2: It's fine to use that.
42:31
Speaker 3: If you could talk about a primitive lifestyle that was
42:33
Speaker 3: being led by Indigenous people, that's.
42:36
Speaker 2: Fine, because you could say the same about.
42:38
Speaker 3: A lot of people around the world. But to say
42:41
Speaker 3: that word... primitive race. It's incredibly demeaning, Justin. And we
42:47
Speaker 3: don't want to re-prosecute all this because we've talked about
42:49
Speaker 3: it for days.
42:49
Speaker 2: I think we should. Well, no, there's no point, Justin.
42:53
Speaker 2: We'll talk about it.
42:53
Speaker 7: We hate Pauline.
42:54
Speaker 3: What I want to hear from you, Justin, is whether
42:56
Speaker 3: you think her apology for this will be a setback
42:59
Speaker 3: for her.
43:00
Speaker 22: No, look, I think it probably, you know, for some
43:03
Speaker 22: of the people that she's trying to target, it probably
43:05
Speaker 22: is a setback. I don't even know why she apologised.
43:08
Speaker 22: It was a pretty weak apology. But it's the same
43:11
Speaker 22: kind of crap that she has been talking for years
43:15
Speaker 22: and the same type of appalling garbage that she has
43:19
Speaker 22: been pointing towards the Indigenous people. For her to say,
43:22
Speaker 22: what have they done? Well, we could throw that question
43:25
Speaker 22: back at Pauline Hanson. What the hell has Pauline Hanson
43:28
Speaker 22: ever invented or ever built in her life? She seems
43:31
Speaker 22: to spend her time tearing things down. Jamie, I've got
43:34
Speaker 22: to say this. I don't want you to take this
43:37
Speaker 22: too personally because I I'm sure deep down you're a
43:39
Speaker 22: nice person and I like it.
43:41
Speaker 18: Really?
43:42
Speaker 22: But watching you nod along with Pauline there like some
43:45
Speaker 22: kind of dash ornament made me feel sick in the stomach.
43:50
Speaker 22: You should be ashamed of yourself and I think you
43:52
Speaker 22: should be the next apology. And I watched the whole
43:55
Speaker 22: thing too, by the way.
43:56
Speaker 9: So you didn't see that we were talking about a
43:59
Speaker 9: much bigger part of an overcrowded curriculum? Like, the whole
44:03
Speaker 9: thing we were talking about was not about being, like,
44:07
Speaker 9: dishing out dirt on Indigenous people. It was actually about
44:10
Speaker 9: virtue signalling.
44:10
Speaker 2: Well, you did plenty of that.
44:11
Speaker 9: It was virtue signalling in Canberra and the fact that
44:14
Speaker 9: our curriculum is so over-convoluted with all.
44:18
Speaker 7: Of this stuff... that our standards are going backwards.
44:21
Speaker 9: We've got seven-year-old kids coming home that are, you know,
44:24
Speaker 9: telling us all about why they're sorry for everything.
44:29
Speaker 2: Thanks for the lecture. You're lecturing me. Hang on a second.
44:32
Speaker 3: Hang on a second, Justin. You're the one who's gone
44:34
Speaker 3: with the personal attack here on Jamie. Now, I haven't
44:37
Speaker 3: seen that whole podcast, but I've seen that segment, and.
44:40
Speaker 2: The framing was definitely about the....
44:45
Speaker 3: Importing of so much Indigenous culture into the education curriculum.
44:50
Speaker 2: I think it's a very valid discussion.
44:53
Speaker 3: And I think the only criticism you could make, Pauline
44:56
Speaker 3: Hanson there, is, as I said, that phrase of primitive race.
45:00
Speaker 2: It's really a derogatory term.
45:02
Speaker 22: Saying they had done nothing. And Jamie nodding along as
45:04
Speaker 22: it was there... Well, this is.
45:06
Speaker 2: Not a personal attack. She put it out there.
45:09
Speaker 22: This is not a personal attack. I'm not attacking Jamie personally,
45:12
Speaker 22: but I think she should be apologising.
45:14
Speaker 9: You literally just told me I should be ashamed of myself,
45:17
Speaker 9: and now you're telling.
45:17
Speaker 2: Me it's not a personal... Yes, you should, and you
45:18
Speaker 2: make me feel sick. You should apologise.
45:19
Speaker 9: But now you're saying it's not a personal attack. At
45:21
Speaker 9: least own up to it. You want to personally attack me,
45:24
Speaker 9: at least own it.
45:27
Speaker 22: I'm attacking you for what was on that podcast, your
45:30
Speaker 22: reaction to that podcast, the fact that that podcast... was
45:34
Speaker 22: put out. This is not a personal attack on you.
45:37
Speaker 22: It made me feel sick, and I think you should apologise.
45:39
Speaker 22: Made you feel sick and apologise.
45:41
Speaker 2: This is the point. You can't have a sensible discussion
45:43
Speaker 2: on these things. So, hang on.
45:45
Speaker 22: I'm being personal. So, I'm being personal. But when Pauline
45:49
Speaker 22: Hanson says the things that she said and that the
45:52
Speaker 22: Aboriginal people and Indigenous people had never achieved anything... Is
45:57
Speaker 22: that something to nod along to? However, when I say
45:59
Speaker 22: something towards you, it's personal.
46:01
Speaker 2: Come on, let's just pull back on the hypocrisy here.
46:03
Speaker 2: You know what she was talking about.
46:05
Speaker 3: She was talking about cultures and civilisation and Indigenous.
46:08
Speaker 7: In the school curriculum and how it helps our children
46:09
Speaker 7: to get a job.
46:10
Speaker 2: And if you can't discuss those issues.
46:11
Speaker 7: That's the way she was saying it.
46:12
Speaker 2: We all know she used a phrase that was horrible.
46:14
Speaker 2: You can discuss it. But you've got to be able
46:17
Speaker 2: to discuss those things. I'm not saying you can't discuss it.
46:19
Speaker 2: Don't try to back me into a.
46:20
Speaker 3: And if you, Justin, want to try and argue that
46:24
Speaker 3: Indigenous culture circa 1770 had achieved as much in science
46:29
Speaker 3: and technology as British civilisation, well, then I'll let you
46:35
Speaker 3: run that argument.
46:36
Speaker 2: What are you... So, is that.
46:38
Speaker 3: That's what she was talking about.
46:40
Speaker 2: Hang on a sec.
46:40
Speaker 22: Is that the worth of a people, is it? This
46:44
Speaker 22: had nothing to do with the worth of them. It
46:46
Speaker 22: was to do with the school curriculum. Don't interrupt me.
46:49
Speaker 22: I was asked the question. I'm trying to answer it.
46:51
Speaker 22: Is that the way we judge people now? whether they
46:55
Speaker 22: come up to Pauline Hanson's standards about how much they
46:58
Speaker 22: had achieved. The Aboriginal people have given a great deal
47:02
Speaker 22: to the world in the way they think, in.
47:04
Speaker 2: The way their culture operates. This is where this debate
47:06
Speaker 2: is so pathetic. This is where the debate is so pathetic.
47:08
Speaker 3: You get an ugly overreach from Pauline Hanson, and so
47:13
Speaker 3: the lefty virtue signal is completely verbal, what she's saying,
47:17
Speaker 3: and now it's turned into attack on every Indigenous people
47:20
Speaker 3: and saying that... Indigenous people in the contemporary age have
47:22
Speaker 3: contributed nothing.
47:23
Speaker 2: She was attacking Indigenous people. That's just simply not what
47:26
Speaker 2: she said. And I'm critical of what she said, but you.
47:28
Speaker 3: Can't over-egg it into some attack on contemporary Indigenous people
47:33
Speaker 3: not achieving.
47:33
Speaker 2: That's not what she was saying. Justin. I disagree. It
47:41
Speaker 2: was a personal attack on them. He disagrees. It was
47:43
Speaker 2: a very much personal attack on them. He just chooses
47:45
Speaker 2: to make up what you said. It was an outrageous... Anyway,
47:48
Speaker 2: I think you've had a good go, Justin.
47:50
Speaker 3: We had so many other things we wanted to talk about,
47:52
Speaker 3: but we've run out of time now.
47:55
Speaker 2: Justin Smith and Jamie Johnson, thanks for joining us.