Latest / Edan Haddock - Total Talent / HR Has a Bias Problem. And It’s Not the One We Talk About

Transcript

HR Has a Bias Problem. And It’s Not the One We Talk About · Edan Haddock - Total Talent

• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Eden Haddock Total Talent.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: If this is your first time listening, this is a slightly unusual podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: There are no guests or no sponsors, and certainly no polished panel discussions.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is just me sitting down and talking through the things that are shaping talent, HR, AI, and the way organizations are evolving.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's strategic, sometimes philosophical, and sometimes a bit blunt.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: But always grounded in what's actually happening inside organizations because I'm happening inside an organization.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm excited about today's episode, and that's because today's episode came from one of you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Alyssa reached out and said to me, Eden, can can you talk about bias in HR and talent teams?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that request stuck with me, and I promised I would do some research and record an episode.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you to that listener.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an important topic.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because bias is one of those topics that exists everywhere in our profession.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: We run training on it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: We include it in leadership programs.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: But interestingly, the deeper conversation rarely happens.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Most discussions about bias are framed as something HR helps other leaders manage.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: HR advises hiring managers.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: HR runs workshops for the business.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: HR builds policies and frameworks to reduce bias.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that work matters.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: But there is another layer sitting underneath it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Bias also lives inside HR teams, inside talent acquisition teams, inside the decision-making processes that determine who gets hired, who gets promoted, who gets trusted with bigger opportunities.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that layer deserves just as much attention.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the people responsible for guiding fair decisions aren't examining their own assumptions, then something important is missing.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Bias isn't something that disappears because we care about fairness, and we do.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't disappear because we work in HR.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't disappear because we've spent years learning about inclusive leadership.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Bias is part of how human cognition works.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Our brains are constantly filtering information, simplifying complexity, and recognizing patterns.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Without that process, decision making would be incredibly slow.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: But those same shortcuts can influence how we evaluate people, how we interpret behavior, how we make judgments about capability.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So today's episode is really about awareness, not guilt and not blame, just awareness.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: The kind of awareness that helps teams make better decisions over time.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about the types of bias that show up in HR and talent work, the ones that appear in hiring conversations, the ones that appear in leadership development and promotion discussions, the ones that show up quietly and the dynamics of HR teams themselves.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll talk about how strong organizations manage those dynamics.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not through perfect processes, but through deliberate thinking.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever you're listening from, walking, driving, at the gym, or sitting at your desk pretending to work while listening to a podcast, I see you.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll start with bias and the HR blind spot.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Something fascinating happens when a profession becomes strongly associated with fairness, and we are.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Over time, people within that profession they begin to see themselves as the guardians of fairness.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: In HR, that identity runs deep.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: We advocate for equitable treatment.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: We challenge unfair decisions.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: We guide leaders through difficult people decisions.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we spend a lot of time educating the business about bias.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: All of that work is important work.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a subtle dynamic that can appear alongside it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: When a group sees itself as the guardian of fairness, it can become harder for that group to recognize its own blind spots.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not intentionally, just psychologically.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: If your identity is built around fairness and objectivity, it becomes uncomfortable to consider the possibility that your own decisions might also be shaped by unconscious patterns, right?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the real work begins.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because bias isn't eliminated through awareness alone.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Awareness is just the starting point.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Managing bias requires ongoing habits, questioning assumptions, challenging interpretations, and slowing down decisions that feel obvious.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: In many, and I will say most organizations, HR teams are very good at helping other leaders develop those habits.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: The next step is making sure those habits exist inside HR itself.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about affinity bias, which is the comfortable one.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because this one shows up constantly in hiring conversations.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Affinity bias is simple in concept.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Humans naturally feel more comfortable with people who remind them of themselves.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Similar communication style, a similar professional journey, perhaps?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Similar personality, definitely.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes even similar hobbies or interests.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: We've personalized, we've hyperpersonalized.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So those signals appear in an interview.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, when they do, the interaction feels easy.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: The conversation flows.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's laughter, shared understanding.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that experience often creates a positive impression.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with enjoying an interview conversation.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love them.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Interviews are human interactions.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Connection is part of that process.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: The challenge appears when connection starts influencing evaluation.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because familiarity can feel very similar to capability.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: A candidate who communicates in a way that mirrors your own style may appear more polished, for example.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: A candidate who approaches problems in a way that resembles your own approach may seem more strategic.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: But what's really happening in those moments is recognition.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: The brain recognizes patterns that feel familiar.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And familiarity reduces uncertainty.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: The tricky part is that organizations don't grow by hiring copies of existing leaders or copies of themselves.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: They grow by introducing new perspectives, new thinking, different approaches to solving problems.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So affinity bias doesn't just influence hiring decisions and individual hiring decisions.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Over time, it shapes the entire makeup of teams.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You start to see clusters of people with similar backgrounds, similar thinking styles, similar ways of approaching challenges.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: And while those teams may feel comfortable, they can gradually lose diversity of thought.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Managing affinity bias isn't about eliminating connection from interviews.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about making sure connection doesn't quietly become the deciding factor.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Many of you may have heard of the five-minute decision.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Another bias that frequently appears in hiring processes is confirmation bias.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: This one is particularly interesting because it often happens early in interviews, the five-minute decision.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Within the first few minutes, interviewers begin forming impressions.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes those impressions are positive, sometimes less so.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And once that impression forms, the brain naturally begins filtering information in a way that supports the existing view.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: A strong first early impression makes later answers sound stronger.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: A weaker early impression makes later answers sound less convincing.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: However, two candidates could give identical answers to the same question.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yet that interpretation may differ depending on how the interviewer felt about the candidate during the opening moments of the conversation.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why structured interviews exist and why we introduce them.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not because structure is bureaucratic, but because structure slows the evaluation process down.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Structured questions focus attention on specific capabilities.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Structured scoring encourages interviewers to evaluate evidence rather than relying entirely on their intuition.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, don't get me wrong, intuition can still play a role.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it becomes balanced by deliberate analysis.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that balance matters.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who has worked with me in the past knows that the old term culture fit, it nails down the chalkboard for me.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm going to talk about it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: The culture fit conversation, it still comes up.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And look, it's not just me.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: The phrase culture fit has been debated in HR circles for years.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason it generates so much discussion is that it sits at the intersection of two important ideas.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: On one hand, culture absolutely matters.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: People they thrive when their values align with the organization they join.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Mission alignment, and this is important in the world that I work, in charity and not-for-profit, mission alignment can drive extraordinary engagement.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Shared ways of working can make collaboration smoother.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: So culture alignment is not something organizations should ignore.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: At the same time, culture fit can become a vague explanation for discomfort with difference.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Feedback from leaders sometimes sounds a little like this.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Eden they're capable, but I'm just not sure they'd fit here.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Statements like that often deserve further exploration.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: But what specifically feels misaligned?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a difference in communication style?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: A difference in how the candidate approaches problem solving?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: A difference in personality?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or importantly, is it simply unfamiliarity?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: When hiring conversations move beyond vague impressions and focus on observable behaviors, teams make stronger decisions.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Clarity invites reflection, and reflection slows down bias.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: So bias inside HR teams.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Bias isn't limited to hiring processes.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: It also appears inside the internal dynamics of our organizations, and that includes HR teams themselves.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Think about leadership pipelines within HR.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Certain career paths often become dominant.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: In some organizations, the HR business partner, that pathway becomes the primary route to senior leadership.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's been like that for a long time in HR.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: In others, HR analytics leaders rise quickly because of the increasing importance of data.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes talent leaders are highly influential.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: But in other organizations, they sit slightly outside the central leadership circle.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: They are what we call the poor cousins.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: These patterns shape opportunities.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Who gets visibility?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who receives mentorship?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Who becomes the next chief human resources officer?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Importantly, who has a seat at the strategic table?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Professional bias can emerge around what leadership should look like.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which experiences are considered strategic?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Which functions are considered core?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Recognizing these patterns help HR leaders build more balanced leadership pipelines.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: We need to smash the assumptions.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, AI and bias.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Technology, it's often presented as a solution to human bias.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And in some ways it can be.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Algorithms can analyze large volumes of data.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: They can identify patterns humans might miss.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: They can standardize parts of decision making.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: But algorithms also learn from historical information.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And history often reflects human bias.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: If past hiring decisions favored certain backgrounds or experiences, those patterns can appear in training data.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Which means technology needs careful oversight.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: The most promising approach is not replacing human judgment with algorithms.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's combining the strengths of both.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Augmented teams.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: The humans bring context.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: The humans bring ethical judgment.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: The humans bring curiosity.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: The humans bring creativity.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: AI brings scale.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: AI brings pattern detection.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: AI brings consistency.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Together, they create this beautiful balanced decision environment.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's important.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: We must confront our personal bias.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: All of the bias conversations HR leaders have, the most challenging one we have is personal reflection, looking inward, examining decisions where familiarity may have influenced judgment.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or where a candidate who felt different might have been evaluated more critically.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: These reflections require humility, but they also create growth.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Great leaders don't claim to be free from bias.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: None of us are.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: They build practices that challenge their assumptions.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And importantly, they create environments where teams feel safe discussing these dynamics openly, transparently, freely.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to the listener again for raising this topic.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: It really sparked a conversation worth having.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bias will always exist in human systems.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal isn't perfection.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is awareness and deliberate decision making.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: HR has a unique role in shaping those habits across organizations.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that work starts inside our own teams.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you did.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Please follow my podcast.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love it if you could share it with someone who works in HR or talent.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, if there is a topic you'd like explored in a future episode, please send it through.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: These conversations evolve because of the community listening to the show.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, this has been Eden Haddock Total Talent.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the future of work will always belong to organizations willing to examine how decisions are really being made.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.