Latest / Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship / #194 - Low-Key, Creative Ways to Spend Time with Friends (Ashlee Gadd and Katie Blackburn)

Transcript

#194 - Low-Key, Creative Ways to Spend Time with Friends (Ashlee Gadd and Katie Blackburn) · Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

0:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Dier Nina Conversations about Friendship.
0:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I am your host Nina Fathdon.
0:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I am so glad to have you here.
0:10
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a fun topic because we talk a lot on this show about how important it is to spend time in person with friends to show up.
0:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk about Friendship is an action.
0:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just an idea or something you hope falls in your lap.
0:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to make it happen.
0:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoyed the ideas that came up in this episode.
0:30
[SPEAKER_02]: These are ways to get together that is beyond
0:34
[SPEAKER_02]: have coffee.
0:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's something different.
0:36
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the idea itself.
0:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You can steal the actual idea and then there's some of the deeper important ideas beyond it like scheduling these things.
0:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe scheduling the next one while you are still there.
0:47
[SPEAKER_02]: By guests are Ashley and Katie from Coffee and Crumbs, a long running website about motherhood, hospitality.
0:55
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot about friendship on there too.
1:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Katie and Ashley each have a piece in there and there's other writers.
1:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way the two of them talk about friendship and they just have good ideas that you can plan for people you are ready friends with or use it as an excuse to invite people you're trying to get to know and it might become a regular thing.
1:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a replicate, copy this idea and run with it at the soad.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello Ashley and Katie, welcome to Dear Nina Conversations about friendship.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello Nina, thanks so much for having us on the show today.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I really feel like I've had a nice amount of visitors of other people who are as inter friendship as I am.
1:40
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a large handful of us out there who've been writing about talking about friendship for a long time.
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell me more about coffee and crumbs and how many years you two have been working on this together.
1:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Katie's been part of Cuffing Crumbs since the very beginning.
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I launched this space in 2014, so we're going on 12 years of writing about motherhood in our space and it's been truly just a real joy and honor and privilege to work with this team of writers.
2:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been just such a transformational experience for me in my life to not just walk alongside these other women in the ups and downs of motherhood but also to attempt to
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: make sense of it through the art of storytelling.
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we're just so excited to be here today to talk more about friendship, which has been such a core component of the work that we do.
2:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost impossible to talk about motherhood without friendship.
2:32
[SPEAKER_02]: People do it.
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the nitty-gritty of parenting, and we should say Katie, I know you have six kids.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And what did they, what's the age?
2:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the oldest is 13 in the youngest is five.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you're really just right in the thick of an M. Right in it.
2:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
2:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Ashley, what about you?
2:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Mine are 13, 11, and 7.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've got half the amount of chaos that's catered.
2:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Still a good amount of chaos though.
2:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I have four kids, but the ages are 21, 19, 16, and 13.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: So wow.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I end where you're beginning, which is kind of cool.
3:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So you think about it.
3:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of children between the three of us.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
3:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That's amazing.
3:10
[SPEAKER_02]: In our topic today, I mean, your book covers so many wonderful, beautiful aspects of motherhood and friendship and getting together and hosting.
3:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're going to talk about how to do it in a way that doesn't make everybody nuts because I especially want to focus first on actually something that you wrote about in the book.
3:29
[SPEAKER_02]: You have an essay about a group of fans that has been getting together for seven years once a month to have dinner.
3:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And then also when we get to Katie, the fact that Katie, six kids, and we went through a divorce, you're still having this focus on making time for a friend.
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear all the excuses, there's no time and it's impossible and everyone cancels and all this stuff.
3:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm inspired by your story too, Katie, but we're going to start actually because she has like this very specific
3:54
[SPEAKER_02]: dinner club and then we will get to the ideas I know you guys came with like at least five ideas of hangs for friends.
4:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I bought my listeners to understand who the two of you are.
4:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, I was so happy to be able to put this story into writing because obviously it's a story I've been living for so long and this one specific group of women that I have dinner with once a month has not only, I mean, shaped my life and my relationships with them.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also really shaped
4:24
[SPEAKER_00]: how I view friendship in general and the gift of specificity.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I I wrote this whole essay about this group of women.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called the proof is then the show notes.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: The show notes is what we call our group text.
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love that.
4:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And as a podcaster, I love that most big story.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, every time we hang out we we all go home we text each other links to every single thing we talked about and so if you just look at our group text it makes probably no sense to anyone else But it's just an ongoing list of show notes essentially, but the story that I tell in the book and why this group of women I think is so special is that once a month we go out to dinner and before the check comes
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We all pull out our calendars and we plan the next one.
5:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Right there on this spot, we pick a date, we pick a time, we pick a location, and I know this life hack sounds almost too good to be true.
5:15
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so ridiculously simple, but that practice alone has kept us having dinner together for seven years.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been such a
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: gift in my life.
5:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I've really learned from that group of women and what I attempted to write through in this story is, you know, I have so many different groups of friends or I'm on different group texts where people are constantly saying, we should hang out sometime.
5:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's hang out sometime, but it never actually culminates in a real plan.
5:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I've learned through my dinner club friends is when somebody says let's hang out some time.
5:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I come right back with, I'm free next Wednesday at 630 p.m. how about you?
5:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, just to put like the detail into it immediately helps the momentum actually follow through.
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so important.
6:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I've done entire episodes about this.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: I've done sub-sac posts on this that literally I call that how Discageau plans.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really simple.
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to suggest states.
6:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes get my undies in a bundle when people say to me,
6:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can tell they want to do it.
6:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they're just saying it off-hand.
6:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, well, let's, we should get together for a walk.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm always the one who sends dates.
6:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like it's like, no, send me dates.
6:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Like sometimes I want to be the one who sifts through your dates.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And looks, the hard work is opening your calendar.
6:34
[SPEAKER_02]: The person who does that is doing the hard work.
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: The person who just checks those three dates that you on Earth for them is doing the easy job, I think.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's nice if,
6:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's never going to be equal because I'm really big on that.
6:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people are just more organized and better at that.
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Every once in a while, it's like, you send the dates.
6:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't let everyone else send you dates.
6:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You send the dates.
6:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I think is what's so cool about my dinner club is that we all do it together at the same time.
6:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not on one person.
6:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We always know before the check comes, we're all bus team on our phones.
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We're opening up our calendar apps.
7:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing it right there on the spot.
7:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And that does, you know, it helps with like resentment or bitterness.
7:09
[SPEAKER_00]: If only one person is ever making the plan.
7:12
[SPEAKER_02]: you're sharing the burden.
7:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And the reason it works is I heard you talk about on your own show because everyone actually comes every time.
7:21
[SPEAKER_02]: That's actually essential.
7:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can't all be sitting there to make the date when the chat comes if two people cancel, even if it's a different two people every time.
7:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And it sounds like it's a huge commitment to, we'll commitment in a good way.
7:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean this.
7:34
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like that's a bad thing to show up to actually come
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we treat our friendship like a commitment because it is.
7:43
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't treat it as something optional or something we can just flake on at the last minute if something better comes along.
7:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is definitely part of the glue holding us together.
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's both the act of actually making the plan and then actually showing up.
7:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a two step process there.
8:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Katie, I'm not asking you to tell your whole life story here.
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And but in terms of how to fix the time you have to spend with friends.
8:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah well with anybody with children honestly whether you have one or six or more motherhood definitely cuts into social lives and friendship lives and there's a huge balance there and so for me what is they you know and we're gonna talk more about some of these like simple ideas but for me I have really had to learn
8:30
[SPEAKER_01]: that the micro investments in friendship add up to something really really special.
8:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So don't underestimate the small things.
8:41
[SPEAKER_01]: As you mentioned, I went through a divorce and I was a really painful season of my life and I think gosh, had I not been blessed with people who like Ashley, my best friend who
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: had taught me the value of quick check-ins, sending each other things that I thought about you, just knowing like I'm on her mind, she's on my mind, we're checking in, all of that.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't live in the same state, so our friendship is sustained on the quick check-ins.
9:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Without all those micro deposits, though, in a friendship, like when life really did get hard and I needed some real macro investments from my friends in those seasons.
9:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't have had that.
9:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It really was built these like just one little brick at a time for the community around me and that has made it sustainable because yeah, with a busy life, no, no, it's have time for a girl's trip every two months.
9:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't get away all the time, but you have five minutes.
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: mostly.
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes you have an evening, but even if you don't have an evening for a while, you have a few minutes.
9:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's important to see that though is part of the whole process of sustaining really healthy friendships.
9:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Beautifully said.
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, who wants to dive in first with your first idea for our listeners?
9:47
[SPEAKER_01]: This is Ashley's jam.
9:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to let her start.
9:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about that, but I'm excited to talk about some low key hangs.
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, part of our heart and desire with this book that we wrote called You're in Good Company is to really just redefine what friendship and hospitality can look like, especially in seasons where
10:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You are strapped for time when you're busy when you don't have all of the time in capacity in the world What are some low-pressure ideas on how we can still spend time together and deepen our relationships with one another?
10:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited to talk about that today.
10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The first idea is what I call grown-up show-and-tell I did this somewhat recently with my same dinner club group.
10:28
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the women in our group is a single mom and Every other week she doesn't have her kids at home with her and so occasionally we will
10:36
[SPEAKER_00]: do dinner at her house.
10:37
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll just order take out and come over and pajamas and just have it be like a very low-key night.
10:42
[SPEAKER_00]: A few months ago, we did a show in tell evening where we all brought a number of things that we just wanted to show each other.
10:51
[SPEAKER_00]: This could be something we bought at Costco that has totally changed our life.
10:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be a new skincare product.
10:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be the sports bra to end all sports bras.
11:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, these were some of the real things we brought.
11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I brought
11:05
[SPEAKER_00]: that have totally transformed my closet and I'm obsessed with really just little little things that maybe have a big impact or things that we just want each other to know about.
11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like an influencer night, but none of us are influencers.
11:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just normal people who like to share the things that we are very passionate about.
11:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was so fun.
11:27
[SPEAKER_00]: We went around in
11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: where we got it and why it was cool and what we loved about it.
11:38
[SPEAKER_00]: When I tell you, the show notes that night were off the hook.
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so good.
11:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's a great idea and I want to let listeners know.
11:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I did not let Ashley and Katie send me a had a time with the ideas we're going to be.
11:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, just come with five ideas.
11:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to know because I wanted to genuinely be able to hear them.
11:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the listeners are hearing them, which I think is fun.
11:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's such a fun idea.
11:58
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really does continue the conversation after the fact.
12:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And it gives you something emotionally neutral to talk about that that you don't want to get deep with friends of course You do but the kind of keeping the theme of the low key hang sometimes it's nice to just do something that's fun and doesn't cost a lot Because you already own this thing you didn't go out and buy it for the event.
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's got a gift it's something that you really have in use And it's also the take of village concept a bit you only to reinvent the wheel you've discovered this way to improve your closet and so you want your friends to know about it I mean, I get that
12:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Girlfriends do not gatekeep.
12:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the number one rule in my friendship group.
12:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So gatekeep.
12:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, on the same way.
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, Katie, did you have the next one?
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is something that I have done with my friends several times, and it has become a tradition, a favorite tradition.
12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, I'm going to say, call it sup Knight.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: But what makes it pretty fun is that everybody invite four, five, six, how you do
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: or you could do lunch if it fit better for lunch, but everyone brings a soup that they love in a crock pot, everyone brings a muffin tin.
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And you get to go through and get samples of all the soups that you like, at the end, everybody votes on their favorite.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I have done for the basketball viewers is gone to the dollar store and just bought like a plastic ladle and some gold spray paint and the winner gets to take home the golden ladle and hang it in their kitchen
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: retain their crown or beat you through on by the other suit, but really I love things like this because everybody's got to eat and we bring plots to containers at the end for you to bring leftovers home.
13:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, yeah, what Ashuse saying is a simple way to share something you love, but just a more of real a fun way to have dinner too.
13:45
[SPEAKER_02]: that's so great.
13:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually used a word earlier, which I love this word, a specificity.
13:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And both of these events have that.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not just let's get together.
13:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It let's get together to do this thing, which is very specific.
13:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't again, it doesn't have to have the deeper, deeper, deeper meaning, but it does, because every time you get together with your friends, it's always adding to the full picture of that friendship.
14:09
[SPEAKER_02]: But having that specific reason to get together, that time is part of also what
14:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that just think of it as something that's unimportant.
14:18
[SPEAKER_02]: So when we say low key, we don't mean that important.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: We just mean that a very beautifully catered dinner party.
14:24
[SPEAKER_02]: We just mean other ideas of ways to get together.
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing beautiful about a muffin tin.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a muffin tin.
14:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually quite ugly and stained and old, but you just show up with your muffin tin and it's boom.
14:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got the best dinner in the little party tray.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already set for you.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
14:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I also love, I mean, my Enneagram 3 is showing, but I love a little healthy competition and I'm not a good cook, but I would be very inclined to make a very good soup because I want that golden ladle.
14:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I do.
14:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can't have your 10 of your friends sipping your soup and being like, oh, yeah, you gotta just have to be decent.
14:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Bring your A game.
15:01
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, what's our next one?
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my next one, I totally stole this off the internet somewhere.
15:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember where I originally saw it.
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was to do a TJs and PJs party, which is a party where you come in your pajamas and you bring your favorite items from Trader Joe's.
15:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was talking to TJ Vax, but that was a T-J-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D-D
15:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm actually hosting this for my book club.
15:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So everybody my book club is coming in their pajamas and we are bringing a trader Joe's themed potluck and when I tell you the last time I was at trader Joe's I actually told the cashier that I was getting ready to host this party and they were delighted like I have never
15:39
[SPEAKER_00]: scene.
15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they just thought it was the most clever idea ever to host a whole party TJs and PJs.
15:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, really excited because one of my favorite snacks to make is this three ingredient lentil dip and all of the ingredients are from Trader Joe's.
15:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you guys have made this.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the lentils, the bruschetta and the feta cheese.
15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You mix all three together, serve it with bread or tortilla chips.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's delicious.
16:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So simple.
16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: They should
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited to make that and also to maybe discover some new things from Twitter Joe's that I haven't tried.
16:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I kind of feel like I've tried the whole store at this point, but I'm sure my friends are going to bring something I've never had before.
16:17
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's so fun.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, specificity.
16:19
[SPEAKER_02]: That's so fantastic.
16:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I assume you're next.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So this one is a little nontraditional, but it's going to kind of harken back to the question you asked me about having a busy life and what does it look like and and so I'd quick lead in story a couple of years ago.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend Kristen was coming over and Kristen's got older kids so hers were all in school and at the time I still had kids home with me before they were old enough to be in school.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We were going to go put a couple of my kids
16:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a great way.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that moving and chatting is a great way.
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Dang out with friends.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: She came in the house and was a little bit chilly, so I was hustling looking for warm socks and jackets and hats for the kids.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: As I'm getting my kids ready to go on a walk, I must have apologized four times to Kristen, like I'm so sorry about all this laundry.
17:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Just overlook all the laundry.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let me see if the socks are in the laundry.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: She finally stopped me.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, Katie, I have heard you apologize for the laundry several times right now.
17:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Would it be helpful if we just skip the walk and stay here and fold it your laundry together?
17:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this so much.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I first heard embarrassed, you know, because I thought, okay, I really want to be the person that just has it together.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't have four baskets of laundry in the hallway unfolded.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I have been there for 48 hours of minimum.
17:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just say that.
17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And Kristen did not care.
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: She did not care one bit.
17:41
[SPEAKER_01]: At first, I said, no, no, let's go for a walk.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, I actually really think we should just stay here and fold your laundry.
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And we did, for the next 45 minutes, two people folding laundry goes much faster than one.
17:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And we had just as beautiful of a conversation.
17:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so helpful and so fun to still get to be catching up with my friend.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll never forget.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: One, just like the acceptance of my life that she showed, and two, she left, and I'm like, this is such a great way to serve and love somebody.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's easy.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now, whenever I am in somebody's home, if we're there visiting if I'm there to have coffee or even maybe if we have plants to use me out, or especially like a new mom, I just, what if we just stay here and fold at the laundry?
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What if we don't even go to the park?
18:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big gift and also we laughed a lot.
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great time hanging out.
18:35
[SPEAKER_01]: As you have that memory.
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Make as you spend the time together, but you actually do something that's going to improve the rest of your day once your friend leads to that had to get done.
18:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for sharing that example.
18:44
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great example not everything needs to be a themed party or a big event at all, but just even pivoting like that, that laughs been a pivot.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love the vulnerability required in that.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: There was vulnerability on your end, Katie, to accept the help and to say, yes, that would be great.
19:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to sit on the floor and we're going to fold everyone's clothes in my family.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a vulnerable.
19:07
[SPEAKER_00]: thing under we're flying around everywhere.
19:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you guys are going to find when your kids are even older because now at least there's somewhat different sizes and it was something I'm sure some of them essentially was sex.
19:22
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some units of size, but I have two boys and two girls and everybody wears the same kind of socks now.
19:27
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the rule.
19:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They all like the tall Nike socks.
19:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
19:30
[SPEAKER_02]: She's sponsored us too.
19:31
[SPEAKER_02]: They all like the tonics, no one gets to deviate now though.
19:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, that's just what everyone's wearing.
19:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I just divvy a mock out of the dryer.
19:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like each basket gets something to add to it, right?
19:40
[SPEAKER_02]: A little hack for teens.
19:42
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's do our last one number five.
19:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, number five, this is one I recently hosted again with my book club and I think it's really fun because you could put a different spin on it and it could work for a lot of different occasions, but I'm calling this the sweats and sequins watch party.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I hosted this the evening that the Taylor Swift documentary came out on Disney plus a lot of my girlfriends wanted to watch that and so I invited everyone over super simple after dinner.
20:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't want to have to feed everyone a full meal, but I made the popcorn.
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So my invitation was the dress code is sweats on the bottom, sequence on the top, I'm going to provide the popcorn you bring your own candy.
20:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was such a mellow fun night we had an absolute blast.
20:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It was fun to be like cozy but also kind of glimmers at the same time.
20:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're into like the Oscars or the Grammys or you know watching something like that with your friends or just a fun movie premiere, this could be a fun night where there's a little bit of a dress code but the
20:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Also great idea.
20:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, now something comes to mind when I hear all of these how do you deal with and that's just you too, but I mean how when when people talk about it in your work on your website and on the subject and on your show too, but also in your life when these are all wonderful ideas, but then you know that there might be someone looking and saying like I wanted to be invited to that or there's also exclusive I did episodes on this in January and
21:07
[SPEAKER_02]: the whole concept of mean moms and all that.
21:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a lot of feelings about it listeners who listen to those in January.
21:13
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm just letting you know this because I don't assume you've heard the episodes.
21:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I come from the point of view that, for example, if you like to do things with just three people sometimes, like sometimes you don't want everything to have 10 people, then you had to give that same grace to other people that you can't constantly be like, oh, I was left out.
21:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I was left out.
21:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I was left out.
21:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I was left out.
21:29
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you also get to go on a walk with just two people.
21:31
[SPEAKER_02]: can have a both ways.
21:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't have deep intimate friendships where you do stuff just a couple of you and then also expect that you are in everybody's every event.
21:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but let's say one of these dinners has or events has five people, six people, you know, what about person seven eight nine to you know, this is what stops me sometimes.
21:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I know it stops other people from even planning anything.
21:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though I said yes, everyone should accept it.
21:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I know everyone doesn't.
21:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I get held up on
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: One thing that I think is a value that Ashley and I share and I really don't want to be like overly legalistic, I guess, is the word I'm looking for or overly strict about this, but I really do think there's not everything that happens, it's fun needs to go on social media.
22:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yes, good point.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I do think that that's we talk off and about how social media is really bad for teenagers is just as bad for our hearts to I feel really grateful to have solid groups of friends in my life, and I'm still like, oh, wait, some of my friends went to that.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't go and that's okay.
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: That is life.
22:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That is like maybe they were at school pickup and a conversation came up and they all wanted to go see that play and it wasn't that I got left out They just like I wasn't there.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a million reasons and I've done the same thing But they know what people here me say is don't post the fun you have on social media Sometimes you're just feeling really grateful and you loved your time so much.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like an overflow like oh, I just am so excited to share this memory
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think sometimes sleep on it.
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: See if that's really edifying to everybody in your life.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I think more often than not, if we do, just sleep on it.
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We are going to actually preserve a lot of people's feelings.
23:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're right, Nina, I have a table that seats eight people and a counter that seats four more.
23:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a lot of people over for soup night.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't be a spoon.
23:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You would be loud.
23:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
23:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm older than you guys.
23:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be loud.
23:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like hard to tell.
23:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it is.
23:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And people often say I'm glad you actually brought up your actual table encounter because sometimes people argue with me on this and they're like, nope.
23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I teach my kids or I tell everybody there's always room at the table.
23:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Well actually there is not always room at the table.
23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not always room in the car.
23:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You plan to night for the kids and there's only so many seats in the car.
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yes, maybe we could take three cars.
23:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to go to that concert with 15 kids.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: It's that that's that fun.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fun.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think obviously there's a lot we have to do in our own hearts, in our own work about trying not to be insecure when we see people that we love having fun.
24:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And also we can protect the people we love.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds such a teenager's get, but like let's not be showoffs about every fun thing we're doing.
24:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so that's right.
24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like both.
24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
24:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't need to have everybody at everything and also don't be a jerk about it, though.
24:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, is that necessary?
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love all of this.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just thinking there's a time and a place to invite as many people as compulsively fit in the environment.
24:30
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a time and a place to honor the intimacy that can only occur when a small group is together.
24:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And that does get lost when you have 25 people in your home.
24:41
[SPEAKER_00]: you're not fostering a super safe space for a lot of vulnerable conversations.
24:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know for me personally, I'm not saying there's a strict number on this.
24:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It just feels really different when you're hanging out with a group of four or a group of six compared to a group of 20.
24:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The intimacy is different.
24:58
[SPEAKER_00]: The vulnerability is different.
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: The honesty is different.
25:01
[SPEAKER_00]: The ability to connect on a really deep level is different.
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think sometimes we might want one or the other.
25:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think both of them are good.
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And we should have space and time for as much as we can fit into our life.
25:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But I agree with you, Nina, that does not always need to look a certain way.
25:17
[SPEAKER_00]: And it would be great if we could maybe even think about that ahead of time when we are planning something and we're deciding who to invite is
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: what is our goal for this at the end of the night?
25:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it to deepen a few quality friendships?
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it to just fling open the door and just get everybody in and make connections for strangers to meet one another?
25:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are both beautiful goals and they can both occur in really different circumstances.
25:44
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that makes sense.
25:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I think kind of what we're describing without using the words.
25:47
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a difference between a community event and a friendship gathering.
25:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I host once a year, a big event at my house in the fall for one of the Jewish holidays, it is come one come all.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in my backyard, it's the Jewish holiday of Sukkot.
26:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really outside.
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like four of the community, but I do include friends too.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: What's interesting is I wouldn't say a lot of my own friends come to that.
26:12
[SPEAKER_02]: It's I think because it's so big and it's because it's like more for the community.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like my inner circles like not that
26:19
[SPEAKER_02]: And it goes to show that sometimes we don't want to, you know, you think you want to be included in everything, it's like, well, maybe not, but I do love having this thing once you're that's for the community, but I can't have all my things I host feel like that, it's impossible.
26:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a top topic.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels so negative and instead of thinking about who isn't part of things or when you're not part of things, I always urge people you plan something.
26:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You pick up the ball and plan something else.
26:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I loved all these ideas.
26:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I like that we expanded the conversation a little bit to some of the sticky points of planning things But back to the positive these are wonderful ways to suggest people get together I know your book is full of all kinds of ideas.
26:57
[SPEAKER_02]: What else would people find in the book?
26:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, our book is a collection of essays and recipes, so if this topic is enticing to you, if you want more encouragement and really practical examples of what low-key hospitality and deep friendship can look like, even in the midst of a really busy mother's life.
27:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You are definitely going to want to pick up a copy of our book.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called You're In Good Company.
27:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It's available wherever books are sold.
27:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be a beautiful gift with the photography.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and so glad to talk to you.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you both for coming.
27:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tell you how I end every episode because I know you will agree.
27:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Come back next week when our friendships are going well.
27:35
[SPEAKER_02]: We are happier all around.
27:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Listeners, you can find my Facebook group, Deer Nina, the group, when you go into the search part of Facebook, just type in Deer Nina the group.
27:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is a great place where you can get your anonymous friendship questions answered, not just by me, but by other active members of the group who have been there.
27:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe they can even answer from the other point of view because there's so many people coming together who care about friendship.
28:00
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's it, Deer Nina, the group.
28:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we're not connected on social media, that's at Deer Nina friendship.
28:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Instagram and TikTok even on YouTube.
28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: All right have a great league.