Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #121 How Phones Are Affecting Family Life (Featuring Dr Kathryn Modecki)

Transcript

#121 How Phones Are Affecting Family Life (Featuring Dr Kathryn Modecki) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Family's Podcast with me doctor Justin Colson,
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  Speaker 1: the podcast for the time poor.
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  Speaker 2: Parent who just once answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I'm a dad to six daughters and the author
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  Speaker 1: of six parenting books, and today something a little different.
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  Speaker 2: I'm having a.
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  Speaker 1: Brief conversation with somebody who's done a study that I
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  Speaker 1: think you're going to be fascinated by. I'm speaking with
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  Speaker 1: doctor Catherine Medecki from the Menzies Health Institute of Queensland
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  Speaker 1: at the School of Applied Psychology at Griffith University. And
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  Speaker 1: you know that topic that I mean, it gets under
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  Speaker 1: people's skin. You're in the park with your kids, you
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  Speaker 1: see a parent on the phone, or you're in the
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  Speaker 1: shopping center, or you're in a restaurant and parents are
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  Speaker 1: on their phone rather than paying attention to their children. Well,
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  Speaker 1: it was only a matter of time and we finally
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  Speaker 1: got some pretty good research looking at how that affects
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  Speaker 1: children and whether it's a good thing or a bad thing.
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  Speaker 1: And Catherine so appreciate you having a chat with me
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  Speaker 1: just now. I'd love for you to tell me a
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  Speaker 1: bit about this research, what inspired it, and what you
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  Speaker 1: did in your study to discover whether this is a
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  Speaker 1: problem or whether we're hyperventilating about not so much.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely so. This actually began as a partnership with.
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  Speaker 4: The ABC for a National Science Week. This is response
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  Speaker 4: from parents across Australia. These are more than three thy
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  Speaker 4: five hundred responses and parents reported on their different ways
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  Speaker 4: of using their smartphone, the amount of time they were
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  Speaker 4: using their smartphones and texting and using social network sites.
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  Speaker 4: They also reported on conflicts in the family around the parents'
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  Speaker 4: smartphone use and displacing time with the phone. Excuse me
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  Speaker 4: to stay lacing time with the family due to their phones,
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  Speaker 4: as well as the parent child relationships.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's one of the big things, isn't it, Catherine.
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  Speaker 1: You know people will say, and I've certainly been one
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  Speaker 1: who said it, one of the biggest challenges we have
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  Speaker 1: with our smartphone use is not that there's anything necessarily
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  Speaker 1: wrong with using the smartphone, it's what it's.
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  Speaker 2: Actually interfering with or displacing.
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  Speaker 1: If I'm staring at my phone, I'm not engaging with
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  Speaker 1: my child exactly.
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  Speaker 4: And in a lot of ways a smartphone has come,
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  Speaker 4: i would argue, to sort of represent something beyond what
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  Speaker 4: it's actually doing. So you know, it sort of represents
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  Speaker 4: the attention sometimes maybe we're not getting or that you know,
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  Speaker 4: closest we're not necessarily feeling, but absolutely, and it's really
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  Speaker 4: you know, there's been a lot in the media in
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  Speaker 4: particular and certain scholars sort of arguing that the smartphone
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  Speaker 4: is problem, problem, problem, But as a parent, you know
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  Speaker 4: that it also allows us to get our work done.
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  Speaker 3: It allows us to.
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  Speaker 4: Find support, find information, so it's it's not just one thing.
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  Speaker 4: And so the goal here was sort of to say, well, well,
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  Speaker 4: if this is a problem, we have the type of
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  Speaker 4: data that will absolutely find it. So we have this
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  Speaker 4: huge sample, we have the measures that are being used
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  Speaker 4: in studies. Let's take an exploratory approach, being open to
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  Speaker 4: the possibility that this might not be a problem, that
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  Speaker 4: this might be okay. And so we started with over
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  Speaker 4: a thousand ways of looking at these data, these different variables,
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  Speaker 4: and we soon decided, as you're saying, that really the
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  Speaker 4: story here is about, you know, whether or not the
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  Speaker 4: smartphone time is displacing with my family or causing conflicts
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  Speaker 4: with my family. But what was surprising is overall the
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  Speaker 4: pattern really was a positive relation, meaning more time across
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  Speaker 4: twelve different measures of smartphone use was associated with better
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  Speaker 4: quality parent child relationship self reported by parents, as long
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  Speaker 4: as there wasn't heaps of displacement of time with family.
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  Speaker 4: So as long as this is not becoming a huge
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  Speaker 4: source of avoidance of your family or a huge source
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  Speaker 4: of conflict in the family, more time, if anything, is
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  Speaker 4: associated with better relationships, certainly not worse.
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  Speaker 1: Now, this is really curious to me. When I'm thinking
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  Speaker 1: about the central aspects of what makes relationships in the
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  Speaker 1: family work, I think, well, something that I say all
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  Speaker 1: the time is that, just like Dola's of the currency
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  Speaker 1: of our economy, connection is the currency of our relationship.
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  Speaker 1: And to me, it seems that a smartphone is going
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  Speaker 1: to interfere with connection. I might be in the middle
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  Speaker 1: of a conversation with my wife one of my kids
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  Speaker 1: of the phone rings, I get it, you know, there's
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  Speaker 1: a text message come through. I just remember that I've
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  Speaker 1: got to respond to that email, and all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 1: my attention diverts from that beloved family member to that
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  Speaker 1: phone that I can pick up and cradle and caress
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  Speaker 1: and touch and get a different kind of feedback from
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  Speaker 1: very very quickly, you know, and I get to be
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  Speaker 1: efficient and productive and do all those things. Now, surely
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  Speaker 1: that's going to be well, your research is suggesting no,
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  Speaker 1: But I would have thought that's going to interfere with
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  Speaker 1: my relationship.
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  Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about it.
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  Speaker 4: So interference with your relationship is different than smartphone use.
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  Speaker 4: And so one of the issues is that in the literature,
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  Speaker 4: you know, the title will say smartphone use is associated
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  Speaker 4: with you know, problems, but if you look at what's
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  Speaker 4: being measured, it's that disruption which.
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  Speaker 3: You're talking about. So two things.
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  Speaker 4: First of all, there's different ways to be using your phone.
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  Speaker 4: So you can be texting or on a phone call.
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  Speaker 3: And you can still have eye contact.
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  Speaker 4: You can still be sort of giving that attention if
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  Speaker 4: your child's on the sports field or on the playground,
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  Speaker 4: while still dealing with other things that would normally take
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  Speaker 4: you physically away from child. So we did find a
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  Speaker 4: difference in terms of immersive forms. So if you're just
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  Speaker 4: scrolling social network sites and very very immersed the effect
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  Speaker 4: is not as positive when compared to, for instance.
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  Speaker 3: Phone calls. So that's one.
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  Speaker 4: But two, I think you know, parents are in this
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  Speaker 4: position where they're dealing with norms, right, so they we're
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  Speaker 4: with our child, but the outside world also expects our
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  Speaker 4: ready attention, and so it's sort of navigating that. It's
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  Speaker 4: sort of choosing your time, I would say, in terms
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  Speaker 4: of when your child needs you. But I'm also going
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  Speaker 4: to counter with the fact that exactly a warm and
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  Speaker 4: supportive parent child relationship give good communication with your child
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  Speaker 4: and a parent not bringing stress over into the parent
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  Speaker 4: child relationship. And there are ways that smartphones can actually
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  Speaker 4: support that, right, So I can reach out to family,
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  Speaker 4: I can find information, I can sort of help myself
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  Speaker 4: cope in other ways. I can physically be with my
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  Speaker 4: child rather than being at work. But it's also, as
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  Speaker 4: you say, it's navigating, right, and so sorry, if it's
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  Speaker 4: an emergency call, you know, I'm telling my kids this
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  Speaker 4: is only going to be a minute.
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  Speaker 3: It's only work, and then I will come back.
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  Speaker 4: So it's navigating. I would argue those norms. But again,
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  Speaker 4: this finding also is when we're keeping that displacement from
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  Speaker 4: key time with your family at a lower level.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm really curious about how there is that
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  Speaker 1: positive relationship between warmth and smartphone usage, so long as
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  Speaker 1: it's not interference. Okay, so interference seems to be the key.
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  Speaker 1: Would if I'm doing something and I'm the duration of
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  Speaker 1: the call is lengthy, and I'm being interrupted, and it's
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  Speaker 1: getting in the way of my relationship. That doesn't have
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  Speaker 1: any redeeming value of quality at all. But generally, if
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  Speaker 1: I'm using my phone more, I can still be warm
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  Speaker 1: to my child. And I'd love for you to just
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  Speaker 1: explain how that might work in a practical sense.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, let me step back and say
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  Speaker 4: these are cross sectional data.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's coming one hand.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, And so at one hand, this was speaking to
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  Speaker 4: arguments that really were sort of geting under my grilling,
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  Speaker 4: my onion, so to speak, this idea that sort of
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  Speaker 4: phones are to blame, which of course suggests if we
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  Speaker 4: just took away the phones, everyone will be a better parent,
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  Speaker 4: which of course we know is not the case. So
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  Speaker 4: on one hand, I'm not saying that if everyone gets
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  Speaker 4: a phone or uses their phone worse somehow.
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  Speaker 3: They're going to be a warmer parent by any means.
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  Speaker 4: But I think the reality is we use our phones
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  Speaker 4: for a variety in a variety of ways across the day.
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  Speaker 4: It's embedded in our lives, and to the extent that
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  Speaker 4: we're sort of negotiating that effectively in our family system.
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  Speaker 4: It's certainly not taking away from the relationship, if that
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  Speaker 4: makes sense. I would also say, in terms of we
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  Speaker 4: know that, for instance, moderate amounts of online coping, So
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  Speaker 4: using the phone to get information for short term distraction,
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  Speaker 4: to bring you down when you're stressed, for reaching out
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  Speaker 4: for support, we know in other research that that can
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  Speaker 4: be really effective for coping with stressors. So on one hand,
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  Speaker 4: I suspect having that connection is helping me be a
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  Speaker 4: better parent. I think also these parents are also probably
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  Speaker 4: navigating very well or better than others in terms of
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  Speaker 4: that family dynamic that Okay, when I need to be
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  Speaker 4: on the phone, you know it's not speaking and not
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  Speaker 4: wanting to spend time with you.
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  Speaker 3: I need to do this and then I'm back with you.
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  Speaker 3: If that makes sense.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like what the study is doing is giving
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  Speaker 1: credit to parents for being able to be selective around
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  Speaker 1: when they're using their devices and when they're not. So
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  Speaker 1: you use the example before, if your child's on the
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  Speaker 1: sport field, you don't have to pay attention to the
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  Speaker 1: cricket game for the next four hours. You can just
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  Speaker 1: look up every now and again and clap your hands
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  Speaker 1: and say well done, well bold, and then get back
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  Speaker 1: to your emails or the book that you're reading. Like
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  Speaker 1: you said, it's not just smartphone technology. If we got
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  Speaker 1: rid of the smartphones, parents would still be reading books,
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  Speaker 1: they'd still be watching television, they'd still be distracted with
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  Speaker 1: any number of other things. The other thing that I
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  Speaker 1: was going to say is just this idea of it
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  Speaker 1: being cross sectional or correlational research.
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  Speaker 2: So there's a correlation between warmth and smartphone use.
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  Speaker 1: That is, it could be argued that parents who are
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  Speaker 1: using their smartphones more tend to be warmer, But it
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  Speaker 1: could also be that warmer parents tend to use their
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  Speaker 1: smartphone more. In other words, if you're the kind of
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  Speaker 1: person who is social and amenable and nurturing in relationships offline,
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  Speaker 1: you're probably going to be doing that online as well,
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  Speaker 1: not just with your family, but with your friends and
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  Speaker 1: with that social network that exists inside the device.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good point as long as the displacement
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  Speaker 4: is low. So actually, if we just look at time
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  Speaker 4: with parenting, surprisingly we found almost no relationship, which is
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  Speaker 4: interesting because that's not sort of what you know, we've
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  Speaker 4: taken as law that you know, straight smartphone use was
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  Speaker 4: associated with problems in the family but you're absolutely correct.
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  Speaker 3: You could interpret that two ways.
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  Speaker 1: So when you look at this study and sort of
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  Speaker 1: pull out the real take homes, what encouragement would you
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  Speaker 1: give to parents when it comes to the choices that
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  Speaker 1: they're making around having devices active and usable at the
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  Speaker 1: same time that family members might be around.
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  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, you know this is something we're
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  Speaker 4: all dealing with, and I'm sure you say this to
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  Speaker 4: parents as well, that I don't think guilt and parenting
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  Speaker 4: go together very well at all.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's counterproductive.
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  Speaker 4: The reality is smartphones are in our day to day life, right,
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  Speaker 4: and so letting ourselves off the hook about you know,
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  Speaker 4: what it's about is as you would be saying to
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  Speaker 4: parents as well, it's about warm relationships. It's strong communication.
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  Speaker 4: It's reducing the stress spillover with kids. It's being available
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  Speaker 4: at times that are ultimately you know.
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  Speaker 3: Necessary to be there.
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  Speaker 4: So it's making smart choices, but also taking care of
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  Speaker 4: yourself as a parent and communicating with your kids and
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  Speaker 4: you know, partners those around you why you're on the
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  Speaker 4: phone when you're on the phone, and making it clear
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  Speaker 4: that it's not due to sort of not being interested
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  Speaker 4: in your child, and making it clear you are available
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  Speaker 4: at key times.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, great, I love that.
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  Speaker 1: So just to summarize, make sure that I didn't miss anything.
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  Speaker 1: There are sometimes where you really want to make sure
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  Speaker 1: that you're available and get the phone out of the
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  Speaker 1: environment so you can connect and can concentrate. Sometimes is
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  Speaker 1: simply more important than others. But secondly, make sure that
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  Speaker 1: you utilidging you devices in a way that is restorative
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  Speaker 1: and regenerative for you so that when you put the
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  Speaker 1: device down, you can actually be at your bists for
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  Speaker 1: the people that you love the most. Absolutely well, Kathy,
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  Speaker 1: this has been a delightful conversation. Thanks so much for
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  Speaker 1: telling us about your brand new study. If people wanted
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: to find out more about the work that you're doing,
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  Speaker 1: where would you send.
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  Speaker 4: Them www dot Modernlife study dot com. And actually we
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  Speaker 4: are now in phase two of a follow up study
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  Speaker 4: trying to tap people's experiences, particularly in Australia during the
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  Speaker 4: COVID nineteen because of course now we more than ever
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  Speaker 4: we're juggling family work and we're finding the role of
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  Speaker 4: technology playing all sorts of different roles. So I suggest
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: folks look at the website you can see some of
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: our findings and also register for you're interested in participating
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: in phase two www dot Modernlife study dot com.
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  Speaker 1: Well that's great, Thank you very much, doctor Catherine MEDICKI.
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  Speaker 1: We will put those details for the study and the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: website into our show notes, and I'll also pop them
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: on my Facebook page into my newsletters so everyone can
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: find out about it.
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  Speaker 2: It's been great chatting with you.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks so much.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I hope that's helpful from doctor Catherine Medecki. If
• 12:13
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