Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 37 - Forty Elephants - The 19th Century Women-Only London crime syndicate

Transcript

37 - Forty Elephants - The 19th Century Women-Only London crime syndicate · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You're listening to an Airwave media podcast.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: When you buddle your renders in auto insurance with Progressive,
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: you could save money, but it doesn't cover any terrible
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: memories living rent free in your head.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: I remember one of your best players got injured, but
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: not like on a play or anything.
• 0:14
  Speaker 4: He got injured celebrating a play. And it's not like
• 0:16
  Speaker 4: it was a game winning play or in the playoffs
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: and he.
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Was out the rest of the season because he was
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: injured while celebrating.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Sorry, well, can't save you from that memory, but we
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: could save you money bundling your renters in auto insurance
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: with Progressive coverage from Progresive Casualty in Charians Company Affiliates,
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Third Gardy Insurers Renders Insurance Buddlies cut not available in
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: all stature situations.
• 0:46
  Speaker 5: Hi, everybody, and welcome to Gooded What Now the history
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: podcast That's not True History Class with me, your host
• 0:56
  Speaker 5: Katie Child, and your course history fangs and readers of books.
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, so.
• 1:09
  Speaker 6: Baby and I we have been so and someone has.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Been very excited about this week's episode and demanded it
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: to be my co host for it. Yeah, so, what
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: are we going to talk about today?
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: And forty elephants who are an all girl gang crime
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: syndicate in London.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: It is fantastic because.
• 1:36
  Speaker 5: We support women's rights, but more importantly we support women's
• 1:41
  Speaker 5: yes when it's wrongs.
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: Good job we practiced that, didn't we practice it? Yeah?
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: We were so proud.
• 1:47
  Speaker 5: Basically Oh sorry, okay, yeah, you're confided to me.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 1:55
  Speaker 5: Sorry, I had to turn the microphone so it was
• 1:57
  Speaker 5: facing baby here.
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: Would you like to be a girl? Yeah?
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Girl gang crime syndicate. A girl gang crime syndicate in London.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Where's London?
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Wait?
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: You know what kind of it's kind of where Papa lives.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Well, that's where.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Papa always sends us postcards from because that's where he
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: goes on his holidays.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: You got to that. Yeah, you've got postcards.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: From the Transport Museum and.
• 2:30
  Speaker 5: From all of the West Ham football matches he goes to.
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: Well that's why, that's why Bubba has all those strips
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: football strips.
• 2:41
  Speaker 6: And you remember you go on with your name on it. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:45
  Speaker 6: so you coz you under the covers. So my bed
• 2:49
  Speaker 6: is currently covered in what now? What are these dinosaurs?
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Dinosaurs?
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: Because Bubba wasn't feeling well and what was he comes
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: into me and he goes, Mummy, don't be mad, and
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: I'm like.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: What did you do?
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: Obviously, and he's like, I was sick in your bed,
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: all right, and he'd like vomited.
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Like all over my bed.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, it looks like I'm changing
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: the colors. And then he wanted to be in beside me.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So now I have dinosaur beding on my bed.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: So will I tell you all about the forty elephants?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: Okay, So we're also called the forty thieves now.
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: The reason.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the reason they were called forty elephants was
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: because they were from an area.
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: In London called Elephant and Castle. Elephant and Castle, yeah,
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: it used to be.
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: Elephant and Castle.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it used to be very I want to
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: say dangerous, because like I think even up until the
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: eighties there was like gangs and stuff there.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it used to be like a dangerous place.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: But now it's pretty affluent because gentrification, that's right. Vival
• 4:21
  Speaker 5: a revolution, baby, As much as I would love a revolution, unfortunately,
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: when when things like that happen, it's usually the weakest
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: and the disenfranchised and the impoverished people in society who
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: suffer the most, So we really need to think of
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: a better way of doing it. But I do appreciate
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: the fervor in which you are anti.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Establishing your babies. And I know what you're thinking. You're thinking,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: quit your gibber jabber in fact me, in fact you
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: So yeah, it does say for you it's a good job.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: So but of.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Course first we have to get source on okay, So
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: the first thing we have is Alice Diamond and the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Forty Elephants by Brian McDonald.
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: Then of course we have articles.
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: From The Guardian and Glamor. There was an elephant in
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: Castle gang, but it was all men and unfortunately, originally
• 5:22
  Speaker 5: the women would be part of, you know, the men's syndicate.
• 5:26
  Speaker 5: They would be working for them and they would do
• 5:28
  Speaker 5: bits and bobs, but you know, that usually meant they
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: still had.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: Lack of agency.
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: But then the women sort of branched out on their
• 5:36
  Speaker 5: own and they became a gang on their own right.
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: I'd like to see this as a kind of feminist movement.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: So they were looking after themselves, they were self sufficient
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: and as far as we know, the first mention of
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: the gang was in like the eighteen sixties, so like
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: we're in the Victorian era.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: And so even though the first.
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: Like official documentation we have of them.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Is like the eighteen sixties, it's generally believed that they
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: were in existence from like the late seventeen hundreds. You know,
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: it's like the Industrial Revolution and such. Now do you
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: want to go to the side?
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: Okay?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: So basically I had this like alliance with the Elephant
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and Castle Mob, which was like men, women, children, you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: everybody they could kind of get their cubby little hands
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: on the possis.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: So the forty Elephants Gang.
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: So they were thieves.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: And what I don't understand, baby, is that we haven't
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: had a movie about these people. You did, baby, When
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: you were baby, there was a movie about them. Yeah,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Well that's a shame because I haven't seen it.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: You did, yes?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: And then baby, baby, Baby, are you thinking about Ocean eight?
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Ya? Okay, it's an all girl.
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: Gang who steal things exact.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: But don't steal things. That's not nice.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: But there was a special place in my heart for
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: heist movies.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I love a good Heights movie, so I would love.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Anything to do with this. So, like I was looking
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: this up, and there's like no movies about these people,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and there's no or Like, there was talks of a movie,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: and then there was talks of a TV show, Like
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I was looking this up and apparently there was supposed
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: to be a sort of Peaky Blinders esque show about
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: the forty Elephants and it was supposed to be coming
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: into fruition, but that didn't happen. And then there's.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Talks of a movie.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: But like, someone get Jim at Arterton on this, because
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: if anybody's going to make this movie, it's gonna be her.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Get Kira Nightley involved. She loves playing characters that aren't
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: nice housewives. What made the forty Elephants Gang so different
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: than every other gang is it not only was it
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: comprised of women, but its leader was a.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Woman, Fascal Mary Carr, who is a former artist model.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: She takes the help.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: So you've got this time where men are running fucking everything.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: They've got the social, economic, and political structures, but they're.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: Also running the underbelly of London.
• 8:21
  Speaker 7: And although women were involved with like for example, the
• 8:25
  Speaker 7: Elephant Castle Mob, they were you know, only used for
• 8:28
  Speaker 7: bits here and there. Even though the forty Elephants Gang existed, it.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Doesn't really know it's very sort of slim pickings, and
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: it exists mainly as an alliance aside part.
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: To the Elephant and Castle Mob.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: You know, But when Mary Carr enters the scene in
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds, that's when they start to get
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: a little bit notorious.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: Mary Carr.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: She's born, so Mary Carr, her father is this international
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: thief and forger of bonds.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So she grows up surrounded by crime. And let's we
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: forget this is one of.
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: The poorest areas of London, and Mary, like the majority
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: of the members in these gangs, grew up in a
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: life of poverty.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: And she has a choice. Can she do the regular things?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Does she beg does she get a menial job in
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a factory.
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: Does she sell her body on the streets?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Mary takes a look at those options and goes, fuck
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: this for a game of soldiers. And by the age
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: of fourteen she already has a string of convictions. Because
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you get to start somewhere, you're gonna get caught. Initially,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: like you know, the forty Elephants are so closely aligned
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: with the Elephant and Castle gang, she ends up becoming
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the queen.
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: She is the mob queen. Oh yes, love.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It mob queens, so so she becomes the first queen
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: of the forty Thieves forty Elephants because she's so infamous
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: for fencing. So like she's very good at selling stolen property,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Like she makes these connections, she's networking and she's good
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: at organizing shit, so throughout her career, so she continues
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: his career of crime.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: And she changes her name here and there to like
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Molly Men and Polly.
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: Car And by nineteen oh three she was known internationally
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: so with police reports calling Car.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: The notorious Polycar, one of the most dangerous women in
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: the London metropolis and Queen of the forty. So she
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: would basically run the gang between like prison sentences until
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: her suspected death in nineteen twenty four. Joining the forty
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: was aspirational for women of the time because it really
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: broke social status because the women who became hoisters, who
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: became thieves, they were going to be able to support themselves.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: They weren't going to have to rely on men to
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: support them because they were going to be able to
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: have independent wealth.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So the women were generally known as hoysters instead of
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: just like thieves or shoplifters because they were seen as professionals.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Quite a lot of them just avoided being arrested. They
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: managed to evade capture and they have like a bunch
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: of different aliases. They had fucking options also. In addition, furthermore,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: the women who were joining this gang, who are trying
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: to claim.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: This hoister status are generally they're already suffering economic hardship.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: They're in the fucking guts of London and nobody gives
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: a fly and fuck about them. Yeah, they're gonna do
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: what they need to do. Oh you're hoping, would that baby?
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: How many how many hands does this lady have?
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: Look three?
• 12:12
  Speaker 8: So have three hands?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: We'll see one of them's pretend which one is? Pretend
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: this one?
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: This one here?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: See this is the pretend hand.
• 12:26
  Speaker 8: So basically doesn't get that hand off. Yeah, okay, where
• 12:32
  Speaker 8: say time and you tell your hand see your things
• 12:38
  Speaker 8: from stump stops, that's right. And sometimes they have a
• 12:45
  Speaker 8: secret bag. It was selling air hosscott.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they were able to sort of pill for
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: things by grabbing it with their hand and popping it
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: in their in there and they'll say, so that's one
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: of the things they would do. See. The good thing
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: about at the time is sort of in this period,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: like in the sort of still Victorian era, turn of
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the century.
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: So like initially they would be like stuffing things.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Under their bustles because they were offered more privacy, so
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: shopkeepers wouldn't be looking at them as they were going around.
• 13:30
  Speaker 8: Ay when he's peen.
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: Kay, yes, yes, yes, like that like like not watching
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: people pee privacy.
• 13:40
  Speaker 9: Yes, So.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Because the women would be in the shop. Back in
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that time, it was sort of rude or not very
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: nice to watch somebody was very impolite. It wasn't the
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: done thing in society. So women were afforded a little
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: bit more privacy, so they weren't being watched and made
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: it easier for them to swipe bits and pieces, grab
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to grab it, to kind of take it like that
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: exactly like that swiping movement.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: Something you can have it if you just exercise.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: Okay, thank you for doing yoga right now during this
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: recording session. So it got to the point by the
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: turn of the century that it was said a group
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: of them could effectively strip a store in just an hour.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: Another thing they did, which was very clever, is because
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: women tend to go unnoticed, especially lower class women, so
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: they would pretend to be a household maid, go into
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: a house and just take the family's valuables. So even
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: though the ladies would would shoplift.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: Jewels and clothes and furs.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, but they would never wear any of them
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: because like stolen goods, wearing it was it was against
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: the rules. So they fold this thing.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: Called the Hoisters Code, which was like a code of conduct,
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: which is fantastic.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: So the girls would basically work in packs. So like
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: I've heard it referred to as like.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: A military operation, like they used battlefield tactics.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: But the people who say this tend to be men
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: and can't understand that.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Clearly, you have never seen a woman that you organize
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: a family planner like, oh, I have seen.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: Some ridiculously beautifully organized shit, My.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: The girl's gone right now, she's not the room. I've
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: seen some glorious, glorious stuff. But yeah, so I'm not
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: surprised that we're well organized.
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: So how they would do it.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: They would break down into like these groups of four
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: or five, and each of these groups would be given
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: like a patch they were allocated, so they would cover
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: this for a period of time before moving on to
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the next one. And they would do reconnaissance. So they
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: would be like watching, you know, the department stores. They
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: would pay attention to like new members of staff coming
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: in or people going on, when their breaks would be,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: and what times deliveries.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: Came in, so on and so forth, when it was busier,
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: when it was quiet.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Like they took it all down because they knew that,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you know, people were catching on eventually. Instead they'll gone
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: full on artful dodger and just like knicking stuff. What
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: they would do is they would use their re trainees,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: their wee nubies as a distraction.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: They'd be a decoy misdirection like Penn and teller, so
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: I love Pendella, I don't care anywhere.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: So basically they'd get the way newbies to act really
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: fucking suspicious and they'd.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Be like, we need to see this general the light
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: of day, and you know other shit like.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: That, just generally kind of acting a wee bit dodgy
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: just enough to distract.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Like the clerk or whatever.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: So they would do this so the more experience and
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: they could go around and just start filling their pockets.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: And but cleverly enough, they didn't just use the newbies
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: for this. They would use the proper veterans too, because
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: like the veteran thieves, they would be more well known,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: so shop assistance and security and whatever kind of security
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: they had would be more likely to follow them around.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: You know, because they're expecting them to you know, try
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: and nike shit. So while they're being followed around.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Their lesser non accomplices were able to slip jewels and
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: silks into hidden pockets in their dresses.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: You say there's no honor amongst thieves, Well that's bullshit.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: There's probably no honor amongst like competing thieves, but if
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you're allied, generally, it's more of a it is more
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: of a camaraderie and more of a and also, you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: snitches get stitches, bitches.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: So there was a hoisters code, so basically the rule
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: of thieves. So like straight off the bat, you.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Can't fraternize or work with the police because obviously because
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: that's a conflict of interest.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: Clearly, then of course you've got you.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Can't go like drinking or partying the night before a
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: big job because you know, you gotta keep your wits
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: about you, and you can't wear anything.
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: That's hot, like you cannot wear any of the stolen
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: like jewels or fars or whatever the else. Fuck they
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: had to be fenced. You could not be having that.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: By the turn of the century, the forty Elephants really
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: reaches its peak and the leaders are they are at
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: the height of everything. They're so gorgeous and glamorous.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Like I would love to say, oh see this is
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: you could make a perfect anthology series about this.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: No, no, okay, so so yeah.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I read about nineteen sixteen. You have Alice Diamond, also
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: known as Diamond Annie.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: But she had like a bunch of Alixes as well.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: She was known as Dolly Blake, Alice Blake, so on
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: and so forth.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: But she was called Diamond Annie because one her real surname.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Was diamond and also because she wore a slew of
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: diamond rings on her hands, so when she punched you,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: you would be embossed with the marks of the gemstones. Also,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: diamonds are really hard, and I would not suggest being
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: punged with them.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: It is not pleasant. Don't ask how why? No, We're
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: just gonna move on. And it was like the police
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: who named her Diamond.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Annie because she would get into fights with the Diamond Annie.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: She grew up her parents were criminals, so she too
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: was a criminal. Because this is just how it works.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: It's society diamond. Annie is often referred to as for medival.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: You see, she was like five eight.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Five nine, and this is at a time where most
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: men were five six, so she already had like a
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: dominating presence. So when Mary Carr apparently dies in nineteen
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: twenty four, everyone is quite happy for Annie to take over,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and she sort of just adopts the original style.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: She continues it, but just evolves it.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Really, so they still have their cells working in different
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: parts of London, creating a sort of network, and it
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: sort of spreads a little bit Overbritain, over like the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: rest of Britain as well, but like mainly it's it's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: contembrated in London because Den's population, more shops, more options,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So under the rule of
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: a Ani like they flourish, They fucking flourish.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: And like for the most part, when.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Any of the themes were caught, it was only for
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: like small thefts, and they served barely anytime, and they
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: were they were sort of tried as like, oh, this
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: is just a random shoplifter, this isn't like a gang.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: And so their sentences would be like pretty short and
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: they would just be able to get out and they'd
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: just go back to the gang again.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Like this is where it kind of gets glamorous, and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: what I say glamorous, like glamorous as glamorous as it
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: can be for inner.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: City London during a horrific period of time. Like one
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: of the reasons why we're so.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Obsessed with the nineteen twenties was because either fucking side
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: We have pure horror.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Like that's why the whole concept of this we just
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: grasp onto it with both hands.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: But anyway, I digress. Also in addition, furthermore, Annie decides.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: To step things up weep it so like in the
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: sort of flurry of the nineteen twenties and the Roaring twenties.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: She decides to really use this to their advantage.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: So by this time, the gangs, like especially the more
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: experienced members, they would be dressing in finery, furs, silks, gowns,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: jewels they had at all, And so they decided to
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: use the patriarchy against itself and.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: Used blackmail to turn a profit. So they would.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Seduce the higher class men, the upper crust of society
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: and would use this as a bargaining chip, so they
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: would extort money, they would use it for to avoid convictions,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: to make evidence go away, and to call in favors.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Whenever they needed them. Because you didn't want to mess
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: with the forty elephants, because.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: These are hardened women who came for me nothing. You
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: do not want to mess with these ladies. Gordeous, gorgeous girls,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: do what has to be done. So so the forty
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: they become known for their style because they're you know,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: because they're style, they're decadent, they have excess, they're trendy
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: as hell, and they throw the best parties.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: Okay, that's it. If if things go well with this podcast.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, if things go well with the pod and things
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: really start moving and COVID is in the bin, who
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: knows when, but when COVID is.
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: In the bin, because eventually it's gonna be in the bin.
• 23:40
  Speaker 4: It's gonna become manageable, like the flu. It has to
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: like eventually. But but.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold a forty thieves party. I'm gonna invite
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: thirty nine people. I'm gonna invite thirty nine women.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: No, I might well, actually yeah, I'm gonna throw a
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: forty thieves party.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: If things go well, worst case scenario will.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Other GoFundMe or something, and we'll book out some weird
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: nineteen twenties style building and we'll have a fucking party.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Yes, love it. I'm very excited that I've excited myself
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: on a cam. I love thieves. I love thieves and
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: hoysters and uh heists. I love heists.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: So basically it's mainly Diamond Annie who really reinforces this
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: hoyster's code.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: She really really leans into this hoyster's code.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So there's this stuff a side before, but no frantnizing
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: with like no working with the police, no drinking before
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: a job, so.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: On and so forth. But also it outlines how the
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: gang operates as well, so like.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: It, even though Annie is the mob queen, it's really democratic,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: so like there's an equal division of like money from
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: this the loop from a heist. They had pre arranged
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: alibis for each other so that they could you know,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: cover each other's tracks and the gang. What the gang
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: would do is if a.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Member was like arrested in prison or whatever, the gang
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: would support and care for the family members of, you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: the convicted person of the imprisoned thief, and the guidelines
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: were very strictly enforced because.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: You would be shamed if you broke any of these rules.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: And not only would you be shamed, you would get
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: the shit kicked out of you.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: They would beat you up. Like in this little cluster.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: You do not want to be the person who fox up,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. So not only this, there was all these
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: other rules, so like like this is where the honor
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: amongst thieves comes into it.
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: It's like you do not shag or steal another member's
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: like boyfriend, husband, things like that. And you also do
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: not steal their fucking money, Like that's not an option.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: Don't do that. That makes you a dick.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Also, in addition, furthermore, the forty Thieves, they had a
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: group treasury, like the treasury, and it was kind of
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: like a petty cash, so like if someone was in
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: trouble and they needed money quick, they would help them out.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: But it was also used to like pay for like
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: solicitors and lawyers and stuff, so their legal fees effectively
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: would be covered by the gang. Yeah, so Annie also
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: had a way of dealing with like interlovers. So if
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: you were not part of the forty Thieves gang and
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: you were on their.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Turf and you were hoistering, pickpocketing, et cetera, et cetera.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: You had two choices, like they would be. You would
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: either pay like a fee you would get like you know,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: they would they take a cup. Right, you could either
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: give them a cup or they could beat seven bills
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: or shit out you. Yeah yeah, so ah, So.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Like this gang were really brutal.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: They were as brutal was any of the male gangs
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: of the era. But like the newspapers of the time,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: they just kept pumping out.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Like kind of like fluff pieces.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: They're like, oh, these bad young things the girl just
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: patty girls of the era, like it's all that kind
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: of shit.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: But it's but I would not want to piss off
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Diamondanna or any of those girls. Mm mmmm mmmm. The
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: glamor was like.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: A goal and an illusion, so it was aspirational, but
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: it was also a distraction.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: So because they were seen as being.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: These beautiful letters and huh that's so fancy, it really
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: helped them, but it also helped distract from.
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Absolute shit they were throwing about, like.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Like how bloody they were, like how bloody tough and
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: aggressive they were, Like oh, but because like they so
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: are constantly writing about this gang, the better known of
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the forty Elephants. They're recognized, especially within London, so they
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: start expanding out. With Diamond Annie, she had some control issues,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Like it's good she kept everything organized, but it got
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to a point where she was micro managing everything and
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: as we know, that is not a good place to be.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: The thing about the Hoysters code is it was basically
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: like my layer of the Highway when it comes to
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Annie and a member married a man that she didn't
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: approve of.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: In nineteen twenty five, she leads the gang in this bloody, brutal.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Assault against the newlyweds, right, and it basically turns into
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: the Lambeth Riot. And because, like Diamond, Annie instigated this,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: she ends up in prison for like a year and
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: a half and by.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: The time she comes out, a new queen's taking over.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: So Annie's like, right, okay, fine, and she she doesn't
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: quite get the heck At a dodge, she decides to
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: do the most logical step and manages a brothel.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: So there she is running this house of ill repute,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: but she's also teaching aspiring young thieves.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: So like one of the girls who's like under her tutelage,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: Shirley Pitts ends up becoming a queen by like the
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: nineteen sixties, but the gang ends up with like a
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: smaller operation that.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Changes different stuff because like fashions are changing and it's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: more difficult to like hide shit in your dresses when
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: you know, miniskirts come into fashion, and then of course
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you've got.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Like surveillance cameras and all that comes into it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Membership for the gang had been sort of declining steadily,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: so by nineteen into two, when Shirley Pitts dies, the
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: forty Elephants becomes officially.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Disbanded, and by the time you know, she does pass,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: the Forty Elephants gang is treated like a folk.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Legend instead of you know what it was, which was
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: an actual threat. So like well, mail gangs will like
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: start and end and grow up and die around them,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: like between.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Car and Diamond.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: The Forty Elephants was one of the most successful and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: longest running criminal syndicates in English history.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: Ah, and that is the story of the Forty Elephants.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: When we learned today, we learned that if you want
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: to chop down right, get a woman to do it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: When society puts up barriers and restrictions on the lower
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: rungs and members of society. Sometimes they have no option
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: but to break the rules. If you like my we're
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: telling of this hell of these girl gangsters, feel free
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: to rate and review five stars on at the podcasts
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and also you can review on Spotify now.
• 30:51
  Speaker 8: So five stars get as five the skies.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you forget. You can follow me
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: on many of the social media's on Instagram and TikTok,
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I am who did What New pod? And on Twitter
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: i am who did What New?
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: Pd? Because there wasn't enough characters.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: And if you're thinking, wow, I want to follow you
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: on social media and interact with you, bring up your engagement,
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: but I also want to like rate and review five stars.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Or maybe you have done that and you're thinking what
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: can I do? I want to give more?
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Well, what you can do is go over to Patreon
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: dot com slash who did What Now Pod and join
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: one of the tiers.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: And get some fan stuff.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Or if you want to do like a one time donation,
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: you can always go to go to PayPal dot com and.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: It's who Did What Now Pod at gmail dot com.
• 31:37
  Speaker 9: So, yeah, I really want a forty Thieves like TV
• 31:41
  Speaker 9: show because I feel like you could really do a
• 31:43
  Speaker 9: really good anthology and really give I really portray these
• 31:48
  Speaker 9: women well, give them a fully fleshed out story, make
• 31:51
  Speaker 9: them well rounded characters, and also feature.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: Lots of amazing heists. I love me heists, love them
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: so much.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I won it so match and now it's ten for recommendations,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: So for reading, I am going to recommend Modern Women
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: on Trial Sexual Transgression in the Age of the Flower
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: by Lucy Bland. For watching, I know some of you
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: may have Star Wars fatigue, but it's got Migna when
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: in it?
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: What else do you need? And for listening, I've been listening. No,
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: you know what, what have I been listening to? Okay,
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: I've been listening to the Tic Tick Boom soundtrack. Okay.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: And that I've done that, I'm going to bid you farewell,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: so adios or we desend my friends.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: Bye bye bye