Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 38, Season 2: Jeffrey Epstein and the Cult of Power: The Psychology of Elite Corruption

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Episode 38, Season 2: Jeffrey Epstein and the Cult of Power: The Psychology of Elite Corruption · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the lovedg podcast. I'm your co host Rena
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner, founder,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and CEO of the Love Dog Relationship Coaching Services. You
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: can find her at the lovedog dot com or on
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: any social media handle at doctor Sarah Hensley. Hello.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, how's it going. Uh, it's going okay. Just
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: got back from Disney, which was a little bit overwhelming,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: but we did ride the Star Wars ride. And you'll
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: be so thrilled to know that I finally watched Star Wars.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I'm so proud.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: I've watched the trilogy the first Now I'm going to
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: go deeper, but you want to know something funny, I
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: do those stormtroopers have never hit a single person with
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: their laser guns. Their aim is awful, Like you can
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: just I don't know why people are concerned about stormtroopers.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: You just walk right past because they can't hit anything. No.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I love that you're you've you've watched it now because.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I was like the only person on earth that had
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: never watched so often.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I'll refer to you as Obi Wan Kenobi. Because so
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: many people come to the Love Dog Relationship Coaching services
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and They'll say, doctor Hensley's our last hope, and I'm like,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you're obi wan Kenoby because obi wan yeah,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Princess Leah. That whole scene where Princess Leah goes to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: obi Wan Kenobi and like the little like you know
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: avatar where she's like help us, obi Wan Kenobi, You're
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: our last hope.
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: Yea.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So now you get the whole. I do the whole.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: I do get that. I do get a lot of
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: couples who have been in therapy forever, like they're drafted
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: trying to divorce documents, and they're like, this is like
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: one last ditch effort, and I'm grateful to be able
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to help those couples.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was just talking to somebody the other day.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: They had, i mean trot everything they had been to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: couples therapy, individual therapy, retreats. A lot of people go
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to retreats and you know, expect a big change. But
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: this is what I tell people that have been through
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: all that and invested so much. Is that your program
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and this is not what this episode is about, guys.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: This is completely unscripted. Your program is literally two simple concepts.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Very simple concepts that you need to repeat over and
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: over and over and over again.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Four weeks long.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Now, obviously the integration of those two things takes longer,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: it does, but the repetition is right. The lip matters, Yeah,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the learning and awareness. And then the true miracle is
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: that people like this couple that I was talking to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the other day, they've done all this therapy, they've done
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: individual they've done couples, they've gone on retreats, and then
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: they go through your four week program and they're like,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: and they have this huge aha moment and their whole
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: relationship has changed because of it. Yeah, And we've gotten
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: stories like that over and over and over.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: The video testimony you sent me this morning made me cry,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: made mess and she has the sweetest Southern.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Accent, which her accent is so cute. That is so amazing.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: And we are looking for people to do video testimonies.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: If you've been through the Hybrid program, we have just
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: not been good about collecting reviews or testimonies, but really
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: that's what helps people find us and trust us. So
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: we want to hear from you. We want to hear
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: your experiences with our programs and how they've helped you,
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: and we want all the feedback, So please write us,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: give us a review, send me.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: You can actually send me an email at Raina at
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: thelovedoc dot com. I have a Google drive that you
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: can drop the video in. I can. I'll give you
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: all the instructions on really like how to do it,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: what we're looking for. It's not hard. It's literally like,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: just what was an all hall moment? What brought you
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: to the program? I mean really just your own testimony,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and we will give you a ten percent off code
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: for one on one with coach Amy or coach Elizabeth.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: So please just at the loved dooc dot com reach
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: out to me if you want to volunteer that. And
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: obviously you would have to give us permission and sign
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: liability that you would allow us to use it on
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: the website and on social media. So yeah, but that's
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: not what this episode is about. This episode is about
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: something much deeper than that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, I don't think you can be existing right now
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and not hear about Jeffrey Epstein, and I can't. I know,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: we get so much of you should speak out about this,
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: you speak out about that, and you can't speak out
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: about all the atrocities. You can't there's no time. That's
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: all we would be doing, be like picking a new
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: atrocity every episode. But honestly, with all of the files
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: coming out, it's way darker, it's way more atrocious, it's
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: way deeper than I think any of us could have
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: ever expected.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Deep, deep breath, because this makes my skin crime.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: It does, and it's a crime against humanity. It is
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: one of the most vile, abhorrent things I've ever heard
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: of in my entire life. And I just want to
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: welcome everybody to the Libertarian Party, where we don't side
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: with anyone political affiliation, because I think after this we
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: all need to realize this is not a Democrat versus
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Republican issue. This is an elite issue. This is an
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: issue of corrupted power structure that is so deep, it's
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: so deeply entrenched in our government that trust no one,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and it is completely spiritual, it is demonic. But there
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: is a psychology behind how these types of integrated cults form.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you look back in history, you can
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: think about Jim Jones and how they all drank the
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: poison kool aid in Guyana and died, And how do
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: people end up going from normal to drinking poison kool aid?
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: How do people go from being somewhat normal to being
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: part of a satanic viole cult?
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, it goes on and on. How do you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: go from you know, you know, I'm mean killing six
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: million Jews and people thinking that it's okay, right?
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is a ton of social psychology behind this.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And as a social psychologist, you know, I took a
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: graduate class in social theory and we talked about all
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: of this kinds of stuff, all of the psychology behind
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: cults and behind major coeresive power structures. And so I
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: just want to share that because I think a lot
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: of what at least Americans are experiencing right now and
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: maybe people abroad, is this question of how can it
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: be so many people, so many people knowing we're being
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: affiliated with or directly participating in the killing of let's
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: not call them underage girls, let's call them children please,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: and the sexual abuse and trafficking of not just girls
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: but boys as well. How can this be happening? How
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: can it possibly be happening at this level? And these
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: people not being held accountable. I've never seen anything like
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: it in my entire life. In my entire life, it
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: makes me ill. I know, and you know, I struggle
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to align with anyone, you know, political party, because of course,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: libertarians just don't fit the mold and people don't like
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: it when you straddle the fence. And I'm never trying
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: to straddle the fence. I'm trying to stay true to
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: my values around freedom and around little government power. Because
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: if you do believe that the government is corrupt, then
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: why do we want them to have all the power.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Why wouldn't we want the people to have the power.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Because I do believe that people are not stupid and
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: ultimately can make good, informed decisions without the government having
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: to point their finger in your face.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Into the common to do party.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, let's call it the COMPS. So welcome new Libertarians.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: We've been here for a while, We welcome you. Thomas
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Massey is a libertarian and he has been one of
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: the hardest pushing members of our Congress for the release
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: and transparency of the Epstein files. And so couldn't be
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: a bigger fan of Thomas Massey now, and everybody needs
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: to do the right thing here. Everybody needs to do
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  Speaker 2: the right thing and hold these people accountable for these
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: crimes against humanity. Because that's what it is, and I can't.
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  Speaker 2: I can't have a platform this big and not say something.
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  Speaker 2: But again, then I'm going to get accused of not
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: saying something about this, that or the other. But this
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: is a social psychological structure, and that's my expertise.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very interested in that. Yes, I want to
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: talk about it, like how does that?
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  Speaker 2: Ye?
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  Speaker 1: How does that even happen?
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  Speaker 2: Let's talk about the social psychological principles behind cults, behind
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  Speaker 2: coercive control and power in big structures. So the first
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: thing you have to understand is that Jeffrey Epstein did
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  Speaker 2: not go up to these people and say, Hey, I
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: run a satanic pedophile sex trafficking ring. Do you want
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: to be a part of it? That's not what he did.
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  Speaker 2: He made connections, and he started off very very small,
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  Speaker 2: very small requests, Hey do you want to have lunch?
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  Speaker 2: I am networked with X, Y and Z people that
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: might be relevant to your X Y Z business, and
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  Speaker 2: I would love to just get to know you. And
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  Speaker 2: that psychological principle is called foot in the door. So essentially,
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  Speaker 2: when you want to persuade someone, you can start with
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  Speaker 2: a very small request, and then there's this psychological principle
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  Speaker 2: of commitment and consistency, where people desire to be consistent
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  Speaker 2: and to follow through with commitments. So if you get
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: them to commit to a small thing, you have a
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: higher likelihood of getting them to commit to bigger things
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  Speaker 2: over time. So that is what he did. It starts
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  Speaker 2: off with a lunch and then it's meet some of
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: my buddies, and then it's come to a party. It's
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: a basic sales tactical and then yeah, it's a it's
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: part of the psychology of marketing, it really is, and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: industrial and organizational psychology really overlap with these social psychological principles.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: And then it's come to the island, right it is.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: And when we talk about course of control dynamics, isolation
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: is huge. Every abuser strives to isolate their victims. It
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: is how they gain power and control. There's a reason
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: it was an island. There's a reason it was an island. Okay,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: there's multiple islands, there's not just one. And the victims
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: have been telling us this for a really long time.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: And so the escalation of commitment sort of plays on
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  Speaker 2: this cognitive dissonance where it's like, ugh, maybe I'm starting
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: to be a little bit uncomfortable, but I've already invested
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: and I've already committed to this. And when you have
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: cognitive dissonance, which is actually carrying two opposing beliefs, or
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: when your behavior doesn't match your beliefs, so it's sort
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: of like this opposing structure that gives you psychological discomfort.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: The only way to resolve the discomfort is to pick
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: a side. And so the more you commit, the more
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: likely you are to keep committing over time. This is
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: why people stay in bad relationships. Yeah, because there's also
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: something a very strong psychological principle where once you have
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: spent a lot of time on something, or you have
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: put a lot of energy into something, you're more likely
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to stick with it. That makes sense right well.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: And it makes sense that with like these high profile people,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: they're already there, they're witnessing it, and they're like, oh crap,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I'm here now, I can't say anything.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, And so that comes with another coercive control principle
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: and psychology of weaponizing vulnerable ability. So I just want
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to take you through the Jim Jones thing first, because
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: then you can see it on a much smaller scale,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: and then we can just translate it to this larger scale.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: So Jim Jones, he was a quote religious spiritual leader,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: very dynamic, very charismatic, and he started by just dropping
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: cards off with people and giving people an envelope with
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: a flyer of like, hey, you know, we have these
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: meetings and we talk about the spiritual awakening and these things,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: and got this audience, and then slowly, through the principles
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: of foot in the door, commitment and consistency, just started
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: upping the bar of what they had to do to
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: remain after they became more connected, after they pledged some
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: of their time, money, resources. It's called effort justification. When
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: we give effort to something, then we justify continuing it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: And so the power of the situation is so impactful
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: and social psychologists have finally won the war against personality.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Psychologists have said this before that the power of the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: situation trump's individual differences. It just does. Otherwise we would
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: have no cohesive mating strategy. It wouldn't make sense. So
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: these people become more and more invested over time, and
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: then he starts just upping the game. Eventually he ends
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: up taking his followers to Guyana, which is this just
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: isolated city. I can't tell you, honestly what continents I
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: think South America. Please forgive me, guys, this was a
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: long time ago and started a camp where now they're isolated.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Now they don't have friends and family to say this
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: is wrong, this is bizarre, don't be doing this. Now
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: they're even more reliant on Jim Jones. And there is
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a strong psychological power of authority and Stanley Milgram. Just
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: google YouTube Stanley Milgram and his experiments show that people
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: will absolutely bow down to authority even when they know
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: they might be pushing the limit on their values or
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: that they may be dabbling in unethical territory. They will
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: still rely on authority to show them the way. And
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the principle of authority is really powerful. So a lot
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: of this research comes from Robert Sheldeini and his book
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Weapons of Influence, And so if you're interested in the
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: things I'm talking about, it's a fantastic book to understand
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the power of the situation. And then there's also another
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: principle called social proof, where humans naturally look to other
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: humans to go what do I do? What's the right behavior?
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: There's so many great principles here, and I could talk
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: about all of these experiments, I mean, the Milgram studies
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: are fascinating. Where gosh, do I have time to break
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: it all down? Okay, up to you. Where essentially people
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: in the experiment were part of the experiment called confederates,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and then we had people that didn't know about the
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: experiment that were the real participants. And so it worked
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: out where the confederates were always the quote teacher and
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: the experiment or i'm sorry, the learner and the experiment,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: and the real people that weren't part of the experiment
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: were always drawn to be the teachers. Okay, So the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: teachers had to read off these words, and the learners
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: had to repeat what they remembered back, and the learners
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: were hooked up to a shock machine. It was a
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: fake shock machine, but of course the real people in
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: the experiment didn't know it was fake, and the teacher's
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: job was to continue to increase the shock for every
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: wrong answer. And they were told, this experiment is about
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: punishment in learning, and how does punishment or reinforcement, you know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: punishment essentially in learning, you know, impact recall. And so
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Stanley Milgrim here in his white coat, and he's very
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: you know, authoritative looking, and he holds a lot of
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: power as the quote experimenter and the scientists in the room.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And so the learners who are part of the experiment,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: they're confederates, right, they're doing this fake role. They start
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: acting like they're getting really hurt from the shocks because
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: you have to up the voltage. So eventually the learners
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: are crying out, stop shocking. I can't take it. I
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: need to stop, like I have a heart condition. Stop
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: shocking me. And Stanley Milgrim comes in and he goes,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: you must continue.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: The experiment must go on, and the teachers will continue.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: And they kept doing it, and the majority of them,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: two thirds of them went all the way to the end,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: which was like near death. And you're like, okay. So
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: the power of authority, right of an authority figure is huge,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and Jeffrey Epstein made himself an authority. He was connected
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: to so many powerful people and he was a gateway
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: to power, to authority, to money to influence. And we
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: covered in the episode around celebrity psychology moral drift. The
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: more power you have, the more likely your moral compass
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is to drift towards the negative, towards the dark side.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: So the more entrenched and intermingled people get with power,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the more their morals start to drift towards the dark side,
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: not always, not always, not always, but it's a kind
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: of a fundamental human concept. And so if we're going
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: back to Jim Jones, he isolated people. It became a
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: matter of social proof. Everybody's looking at each other, what
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: do we do? And just like Sheep, they all drank
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: the kool aid because they all thought that was what
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: was going to lead to the ultimate enlightenment and in mission.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: And so it doesn't happen in a day where someone
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: gets intertangled into something like a cult. And so there
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: are so many of these principles that I think applied
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: to the Epstein situation where Jeffrey Epstein, as a very charismatic,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: very connected person with lots of resources, really preyed upon
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: people who were hungry to have power and to have
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: authority and to have connections and to be wealthy. And
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: then I mean, I don't feel one bit sorry for
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: them if they decided to participate. To me, participating or
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: knowing it makes you just as guilty, I should say,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: participating in sort of the peripheral things, but knowing that
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the really bad things are going on. Makes you just
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: as guilty if you know what's going on and you
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: don't do anything to stop it. And I'm guessing these
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: people had everything and their family, their lives, whatever.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: It's what I was going to say. They probably had
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: a ton to lose. Their lives were being threatened.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Right and before they know it, their knee deep in
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: the mess. And then that becomes a point of weaponized vulnerability.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Oh now you're associated, and we have pictures of you,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: and we have documentation that you've been here, and you're
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: part of us now. And if you don't want people
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: to know that you're part of this, you better keep
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: your mouth shut. And then you know nobody. I have
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: not dug directly into the files. I have to protect
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: my own like well being, which I mean having the
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: luxury to do that is a blessing. I mean, they're
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the real victims who were very harmed, and they don't
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: have the luxury to say I can step back and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: and not dig into this. It was it happened to them,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and their stories matter, their experiences matter. But there's also
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: something called diffusion of responsibility. And this is a really
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: big problem in so many arenas. And I'm sure your
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: husband has experienced this being a police officer in the past,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: where when there are emergencies, for example, everybody kind of
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: looks to somebody else, like who's going to call nine
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: one one? And that's why when they do training on emergencies,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: they say you point to somebody and go you you
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: go call nine one one. There was a story of
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: a woman named Katy Geneviez and this was back in
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: that I believe sixties maybe fifties, where she was murdered
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: in literal daylight outside of her apartment, stabbed death and
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: numerous amount of times, and there were like seven people
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: watching out their windows. Not one person called the police
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: because everybody thought that somebody else was going to do it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: So we call this the bystander effect, which is like,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: if there's a bystander there are more people that are around,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: the less likely any one person is to take action
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: to stop something if it's tragic or harmful, because the
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: responsibility of doing it becomes diffused among everybody. So that's
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: where we get that term diffusion of responsibility, and that
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: comes from a group of scientists called Darley and Latine,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and they did this very interesting experiment where they had.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: It's called the smoke filled Room experiment. And again all
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: of these experiments are on YouTube, so you can you
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: can go to YouTube and look up Stanley Milgram and
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: his experiments. You can look up Darley and Latine. It
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: looks like it's spelled Lautan. And there are experiments of
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the smoke filled Room study where essentially they had participants
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: and they're filling out the information in this waiting room
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, there starts to become smoke
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: in the room, and one of the participants out of
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: like three is or I'm sorry, like two out of
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: the three. There's two confederates that are part of the experiment,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: acting like real participants. One that is a real participant
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: that doesn't know what's going on. So the smoke starts
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: coming in the room, and the two confederates just sit
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: there and look and just don't do anything and start
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: and continue to fill out their paperwork, and the other
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: one's just looking around like is this a problem? Like
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: is the building on fire?
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And they in what they found was the majority of
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: people continued to sit there social proof and again the
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: bystander effects, somebody's got to do something if this were
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: a problem, somebody would be doing something.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about sleep for a second, because
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: if you're tired, everything feels harder, your mood, your patience,
• 22:34
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• 22:39
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• 22:43
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• 22:54
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• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Agreed.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: And if you share a bed with somebody who runs hot, tosses,
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• 23:09
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• 23:11
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• 23:24
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• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Cozy Earth, Thank you. I experienced this personally when my
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: plane caught on fire. Okay, and gosh, I can't believe
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: you lived through that. Yeah, it was wild. Trauma stacking here, Yeah,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: trauma stacking for sure. JP was eighteen months old. I'd
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: gone to Vegas with some friends, first trip away from
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: him since i'd had him. And on the way back,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: we had a layover in Phoenix. We take off, We're
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: in the air for maybe five minutes. The landing gear
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: comes back down. I was nervous anyway. I hadn't flown
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: in a long time, and so I immediately sort of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: like look to my friend who I'm with. It's like,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: why why are they putting the landing gear back down?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can remember everything so clearly. About that time,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the pilot comes on over the intercom. Ladies and gentlemen,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: we have an emergency. I have an indicator light that
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: just came on that says there's a fire in the
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: rear wheel of the plane and we're gonna have to
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: turn around and make an emergency landing in Phoenix. So,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: of course, being somewhat of a nervous flyer, I start
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: to look around right like, Okay, I don't fly a lot, Like,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: let me look to others for some social proof. Is
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: this like a big deal? Is it not a big busset?
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Should we be alarmed?
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Right? So I'm looking around. You know, there's people laughing,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you know, other people kind of have perplexed looks on
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: their faces, kind of in the same position I'm in.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I do turn to the woman sitting to my left
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: and you know, just blatantly said, do you fly a lot?
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: And she said, And I'm like, has this ever happened
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: to you? And she said no? And so then you know,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: the fear starts to rise, and then you know, this
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: all happens in a very short time period. It felt
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: like a lifetime, but it was wild. And then all
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: of a sudden I noticed the flight attendants running around
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: like chickens with their heads cut off. Then I start
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to get a little bit more afraid. And then we're
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: like three rows up from one of the emergency exits,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: and of course protocol yep, and these situations are you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: are you able bodied to help people out of the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: airplane and you know, out of the emergency exit. So
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: you know, they're moving this big man to the emergency exit.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: The flight attendants standing there with a piece of paper.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: This is what really set me over the edge. And
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I look up at her. She has that piece of
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: paper in her hand and she's shaking like a leaf.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: And that's when I thought, oh, no, we're in trouble,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Like this isn't normal, this doesn't happen often. And is
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: this plane going to blow up upon impact on the ground. Yes,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And so I mean it was full fledged, like head down,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: you know, like yelling at us. I mean, this all
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: happens within like no time and then but it wasn't
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: until that last second, I mean maybe like the last
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: sixty seconds when they really started like yelling at us
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: to put our heads down between our legs that people
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: started to freak.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: So we're just all sitting there like okay, well we're good,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: you know, knowing that most plane crashes happened during take
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: off or landing, and so in my mind, I was
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: just like, we're gonna blow up, you know. Thankfully obviously
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: we did not. Guys, I'm still here.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: And so what happened with the landing? Did they get
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: the emergency exits out? Did you go down the slide?
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: They did all of the above.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I just know they always asked Donald, like,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: you know, do you want to sit here? Do you
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: want to sit here? Because he's a big guy.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was crazy because in those situations, your your
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: trigger responses come in the you know, fight, fight, all
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: those things and freeze. And it really is a testament
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: to how you're going to react in those situations because
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I've always thought of myself as a fighter. But I
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: completely froze. He froze.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I can I can relate to that because last year
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: we were at a cheer competition in Indianapolis and we
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: took our camper and Donald doesn't get to be the
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: weather man anymore because there's a tornado that went through. Yeah,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: and it literally blew off the top of the building
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: right beside our camper, and it knocked our camper off
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the blocks that you know, camper sits on walks. And
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: when I tell you that, I've never been more scared
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: of my entire life. And when the tornado sirens started
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: going off, and Donald grabbed all the kids and he
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: put them like the sofa kind of like you can
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: put the seed up and it closes, and he like
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: put the kids in the enclosed sofa, and then he
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: had me and Gabby, who's bigger. It had a mattress
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: over us, and he was sprawled on top of us.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: You know. Between that so was him and then the
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: mattress and then us, And I was like frozen. I
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: was frozen, and he was cool as a freaking cucumber.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: And I swear to gosh it was his military training
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: or he had been in life for death situations before,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: and he was just like, it's gonna be okay, nobody's
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: gonna get hurt. I'm not gonna let anything happen to you.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: I will not let anything happen to you. He just
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: kept repeating, you are safe. I Am not gonna let
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: anything happen to you. You know, We're gonna get through this.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: This is no big deal. It's just like and then
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: he had a huge adrenaline dump after that, which was like,
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, we want to talk about pouring sweat. Sure,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Like when he was when it was over, is when
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: his his body released and all of those stress hormones just.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: You know, can relate.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just dropped off.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Proof that training matters.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, proof that training matters. And so so you can
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: imagine to just circle back. Everybody's looking to someone else
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to say somebody's somebody's gonna.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Call something's wrong.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Here's somebody's gonna blow the whistle on this. Surely somebody is.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: It's probably not gonna be me. They said they'd come
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: after my family, so I can't do it, but surely somebody,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: somebody is going to do it. And that's how you
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: end up with hundreds, if not thousands of people being
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: involved in nobody blowing the whistle. And then part of
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: that is coercive control, vulnerability, weaponization, blackmail. We know that
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: blackmail was a huge part that they had stuff on
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: anybody and said, oh, you're gonna blow the whistle. Well,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: guess what this is coming up? You're part of it.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: You're part of it now. Yeah, And that creates a
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: very dynamic and powerful cohesive structure where people remain in
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: the structure. And then you know what ends up happening
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: is there's moral disengagement or moral drift, and we talked
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: about that. And then there is this intermittent reinforcement where
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: they're not on the island every single day, so it's
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: like they compartmentalize. And we know intermittent reinforcement, especially with fear,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: and this is part of abuse dynamics, is there's like
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: a love bombing with fear, and Jeffrey Epstein love bombed
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: the heck out of these people. I'm sure he gave
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: away houses, he showered people with money, He introduced them
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: to people that funded their businesses and their political campaigns.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And again I'm not excusing any of this, I'm just
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: trying to tell you the psychological mechanisms behind this. So
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: then that creates addiction, and it's intermittent reinforcement will always
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: create anxiety and addiction. So they're both anxious about this happening,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: but then they're also they're in it. They're addicted, they're
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: trauma bonded to this man and probably his inner circle.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And then we have the compartmentalization component of that. And
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: as a victim of abuse myself certainly not at any
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: of that level being sex trafficked, but as somebody who's
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: been through abuse, you do compartmentalize a lot of it,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: you do, and that is part of a freeze response.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: It's part of a freeze response to compartmentalize. It's suppression,
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: it's dissociation. And so I'm sure these people it was
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: like I live my normal life and then I have
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: this darker aspect of my life. But I can kind
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: of put that on the shelf and just it's just
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: there when I need it, or it's there when I
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: have to be a part of it, but it's not
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: really who I am. And then they rationalize that this
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: isn't really who I am. The person I live every
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: day in my life is who I really am. This
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: is just something I kind of have to do, and
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: then it becomes well, it's just business, and then it becomes.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't really want to get in it.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't really want to be involved in it, but
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: now I'm too deep in it and I can't get
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: out of it. It's not my fault. It's not my fault.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: And then they're stuck. Yeah, but again I am not
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: excusing this. They deserve to be prosecuted and put in
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: jail and have whatever penalties are coming to them. Because
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I would like to think and hope and pray to
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: God that if I ever ended up connected to somebody
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: who was truly evil and doing wrong, even if they
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: threatened my family, even if they threatened to kill me,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I would still blow the whistle. I would like to
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: think that I think we all would. Yeah, because at
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the end of the day, I would rather die and
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: do right by God than be complicit in anything of
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: that nature. But not everybody has that level of faith,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: or not everybody has that level of psychological resilience. They
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: should still be prosecuted, they should still be imprisoned for
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: the rest of their lives. It's not an excuse. I'm
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: just trying to tell you how it happens psychologically. And
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: we can just take this back to relationships in general.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: How do you end up in such an abusive relationship
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: where when I tell it, yeah I did, I did.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Because people don't understand it.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: But it just starts a little at a time. It's
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: not like abusers come and they're like, you know what off,
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to beat beat the crap out of you today.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like in a year, just wait, I'm gonna punch
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: you in the face, right, and then you'll still struggle
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: to leave. Yeah, yeah, I.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: Mean it's it is. These are psychological principles that work
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: across the board. They work across the board. That is
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: what social psychology is all about. The power of relational
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: dynamics or situational dynamics influencing people in the exact same
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: way because of the way our brains are developed.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: So interesting it is.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And everybody wants to think that they're a unicorn, that
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: they're so special, like even I do right now saying
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I would hope that my faith would always make me
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: do the right thing. I've never I've never been in
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: that situation. But if I was and I didn't do
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: the right thing, I would deserve to be punished.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Well, you have been in that situation in a sense,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: not to that degree, but not.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: To that degree, and not where I was complicit in crime. Crime. Yeah, no,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I was a victim. Yeah, Yeah, but I didn't. I
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: didn't blow the whistle. I protected my abuse, or for
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: years and years and years, I protected abuse. Yeah, I
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: talked about it quietly. I tried to deal with it privately.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't reach out for help. I didn't. I didn't
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: go through. Even when systems tried to help me. I
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: ended up being convinced that the systems were wrong. You know,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: like my ex would always say, we don't involve the
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: police in your personal business, no matter what. That's just
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: an isolation tactic. And then when I did involve the
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: police or you know, other people that loved me involved
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: the police. Then I got punished and it was you
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: ruined my life, you were into my life. I have
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: this on my record. How dare you?
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: You've affected our family, You've affected our family, You've ruined
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: our family, You've ruined my life. And it's such manipulation. Yeah,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and it happens so often, so often. I mean, we
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: both have personal experience in that realm, and obviously, like
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: you said, we were neither one of us weren't necessarily
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: complicit in crime. But you know, I mean I've openly
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: talked about this vulnerably before on the podcast of things
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: decisions I've made, you know, where I felt very coerced
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: by my ex and you know, it totally didn't align
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: with my values or who I really am. And there's
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: so much of those things that this is kind of
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: where I want to want to take this, because it's
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: very interesting what actually happens to the brain too. There
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: are so many things that I can't even remember. Yeah,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: so it's like past compartmentalization. Yeah, it's like like I
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: don't even remember what happened.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom will tell me things. You remember when
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: this happened, Remember that happened. I'm like, no, I don't. Yeah,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: there were so many crises, Yeah, how do you remember
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: them all?
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And well, and then the hippocampus stren does.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: It does to protect you. It shrinks to protect you
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: at your memory center. It shrinks to protect you.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: And these people.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: No, please, guys, don't think anything we are saying is
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: an excuse for these people.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure if they are prosecuted, you know,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: they'll bring in some psychologists or you know, a neuro scientist,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: you know, saying maybe something happened to the brain, and
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: who knows what they'll pull, who knows what cards they'll
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: pull out of the woodwork to try to get whoever
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: is you know, involved and infiltrated in this mess out
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: of it.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Of course, I don't even think they're going to prosecute
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: them to begin with, if you watched Pam BONDI and again,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: I tend to lean more Republican As a libertarian, I do.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: I tend to lean a little more republican, and but
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I will not align myself with any politician. I will
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: align myself with my morals and my values. And I
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: know there's a lot of people right now just hanging
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: on to their political identity right now because it feels
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: so psychologically bad to have your politics correlate with your identity.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: So if your politics are challenged, then your identity is challenged.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And that's why people get so viscerally mad about politics.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: And you know, Pambondi's interview, it was like a twenty
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: five year old dude that got caught cheating. It was
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: nothing but deflection, It was nothing but name calling. These
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: people are saying, are you going to prosecute.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: These pap Tell our listeners who she is.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Pam Bondi is our Attorney General of the United States,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And I mean, did I support her? Yeah, I mean
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: a woman, And you know, we always want to try
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: to stick together and support people. And like I said,
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: as a libertarian, you know, sometimes I'm a little bit
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: more aligned with Democrats. Sometimes I'm a little bit more
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: aligned with Republicans. I think as I've come closer to God,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: you know, a little bit more of the Republican sort
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: of space has felt a little bit better to me.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: But I don't align with anybody. I align with Jesus Christ.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: And so if something's wrong, even if it's my quote
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: closer party, I'm gonna call it out because my allegiance
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: is to Jesus Christ and nobody else. And if people
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: are sitting there going these people are have clearly committed crimes.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: We have all the evidence in the world that they've
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: done these things in these files. Are you going to
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: prosecute them? And what we get back is well, you
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: didn't care about X, y Z thing that happened in
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: your district. We don't get an answer.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And she said the whole system would collapse.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: She said if she said, if we prosecuted all these people,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: the whole system would collapse. That's the point. That's what
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: we want. We wanted to come down. We want it
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: to burn in hell. Yeah, at least I do.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, bring these people down.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: It's satanic.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. It's like. And I wish people
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: would understand this more like, stop trying to understand this
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: on a political level. Let's not try to understand it
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: on a spiritual level.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: A spiritual level, on a right and wrong level, good
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: versus evil level. They want us fighting with each other
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: because then they can do their little sick stuff behind
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: closed doors when nobody's watching. It's sick. If you go
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: down the rabbit hole. It's so sick. I won't for
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: that's so freaking sick. And there's so many moving parts.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, I can only imagine.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: It's like a web. And that's just the first part.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: They have more, they have more, so they've known about this.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: This goes back to Biden. This goes back to Obama.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: This goes back to Bush two. This goes back to
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Bush one. This goes back to Clinton. This is not
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: a political issue. And if you make it a political issue,
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: shame on you. This is a human and spiritual issue. Everybody,
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: they were all complicit, They all had the files. Jeffrey
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: Epstein was a convicted pedophile in two thousand and eight.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: If you associated with him after that, after you knew
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: he was a pedophile, I don't feel sorry for you.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: It's on you. It's on you. Ugh makes me sick,
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: makes me sick.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: But the psychology behind psychology, it's interesting.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: It is It is interesting well, and it brings awareness
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: so that you know, again not as an excuse, but
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: for knowledge and knowing that when these things happen, that
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: something something, something's off. Like I always think, like when
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: somebody ends up that messed up, like Jeffrey Epstein. What
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: in the world happened to him?
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Satan, That's all I can think of. Yeah, it's all
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I can think of. Yeah, Satan, Satan himself.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: And the other theory. I don't know if I can
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: say it on air, but he had the micro penis.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's allegedly allegedly. They said the same thing
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: about Diddy allegedly. I don't know.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't, I don't know.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know either.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: They're eating babies.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I can't, I can't.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: They allegedly are aged, allegedly are eating babies, and it
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: was crazy. Roseanne bar of all people, gosh, whatever you
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: think of her, she's wild. She did an interview a
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: couple of years ago where she said, you don't know this,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: but the elites run in this world are eating babies. Yeah,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: she called it. She called it. They're sacrificing babies and
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Satanic rituals.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, I just I can't. I cannot wrap my brain around.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: Ten years ago, I watched a YouTube video about pizzagate,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: and now that's all in the files, the pizza stuff's
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: all in the files, and I'm just like, okay, all right,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: we need we know Alex Jones an apology. Yeah, but
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: but back to course of control. You know, we have
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: dependency creation. I'm sure people's business assets end up tied
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: up in Epstein and his network. We have fear and
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: threat are architecture, you know where you like I said before,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: you're in it now, blackmailing, incentive structures. Oh you don't
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: want to be part of this, well, you know we're
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: bankrupting you or we're whatever. And then normalization of boundary eroding,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: that is abusers push boundaries a little bit out of time. Again,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: they don't come out swinging at first. I'll never forget
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the very first time, and gosh, we were just dating.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: I was at my ex's birthday party and it was
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: his dad's side of the family, and his grandmother, who
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: is a really wonderful person, was there, and I got
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: him a pair of sunglasses ray bands and he put
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: them on and I said, all those look freaking awesome.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: This was like a month into dating him. How oh
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: my gosh, palm to face and he looks at me
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: and he goes, don't you ever say freaking in front
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: of my grandmother? And he took this really dark tone
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: with me, and I was just like, okay, I'm sorry,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: I didn't know, and then he just immediately lightened back up.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I have a very similar experience with
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: my ex. We'd only been dating six months and we
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: went on vacation with this family and he knew, Like
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I was, like, I'm not a water bug by any means,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: like the water intimidates me. And we were in the
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: pool and he held me underwater. Oh he still had
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: he when I left him. He had a scar from
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: where I dug my finger nails into him and he
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: would not stop, he would not stop pushing my head underwater.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: It's like, that's abusive. It is abusive. It's so abusive.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: And like his family just kind of.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Laughed, Yeah, and they laughed it off. And again that's
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: social proof. Yeah, right, look to everybody else, How is
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: everybody else reacting to this? Am I the odd ball?
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Well apparently I am, because I'm.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Just not like I'm just yeah, I'm being a stick
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: in the mud. He's just joking around, yep.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: But knowing that knowing is how it starts, and your
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: boundaries become eroded a little bit at a time, and
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: before you know it, you are entrenched in something so
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: deep and you are such a broken, weak person who
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: they become the authority, right, And we just talked about
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: the power of authority. I mean I was threatened to,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I will take our you know, you will never see
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: the girls again. My family has so much money than yours.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: So true, I will win, and I will I will
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: drag this out in family court until you never see
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: your daughters again. And I believed it. So imagine I
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: don't I don't know what is said to these people.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: And I think we have layers of people, right, So
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: we have people that are like maybe went to lunch
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: with them, and then we have people that maybe went
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: to parties. Then we have people that went to the island.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Then we have his close inner circle. I believe they
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: all deserve to be prosecuted because if you, like again,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: if you knew about what was going on, you didn't
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: say anything, you're complicit. But it just it becomes such
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: a tangled web, such a tangled web.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: And a cycle. Right. So it's like the more people
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: he would collect, the.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: More social proof, right.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: And then it was like with those people that were
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: high stature or you know, very visible, they would look
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: at that network and be like, oh, Wow, his network
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: is so big, not maybe initially knowing why it was
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: so big.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, because blackmail. Yeah, and because I don't know.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know. All I can say is though they
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: did Satanic rituals, and the rituals worked, and that shows
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: us if there's a dark side, there has to be
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: a light. That's right, there has to be a loving God.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Because God created a world of opposites. If you're wondering,
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: why would God allow this? God gave us free will,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: He's not allowing it. He's allowing free will to play out,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: and he promised us he can't mess with it. So
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: humans decide to align with the enemy. God doesn't want that.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: God is always calling out to us to align with
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: the light, to align with love, to align with peace, joys, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: self control. He's always calling us to be in relationship
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: to him because if we're not, we don't have the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: armor of God to guide our moral compass. And when
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: you think about it, one of the best arguments for
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: God is, well, then how do you define what's good?
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Where's the line of what is good and what is evil?
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: If there is no God to tell you where the
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: line is what is the line? Is it something you
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: make up because you decide it is? Who's the ultimate authority?
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: And how far does it get pushed? It's crazy? I mean,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: I hope that if anything comes out of this, it's
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: that people will see. If there's evil, that means there
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: has to be good. Yes, And God is not a
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: lie allowing anything. He's allowing the free will he has
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: always allowed so that we choose to love him. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: Satan exploits our free will and we as humans make
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: the decision to align with it, and that breaks God's heart.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I'm always but he can't mess with it. I'm always
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: hopeful that in the midst of so much darkness that
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: God will bring some silver lining from it all. Whether
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: that is you know.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Well, we already know the ending. That's the good thing.
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: We already know that God wins in the end. We
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: just don't know when the end is. Nobody does and
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: everybody's like, this is end times. I'm like, oh, you
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: know more than Jesus, because Jesus even said I don't
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: know when I'm coming back. Guys, only God the Father knows.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: The angels in heaven, don't.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: The angels in heaven don't even know, you know more
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: than the angels in heaven.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: No, we don't.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: We don't know. It could get a million times worse
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: than this. We have no idea. We just got to
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: hang on to faith in the meantime.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And that's what I was going to say. That's why
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: you have to be ready.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: You have to be ready. You have to be ready
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: because we don't know when it's coming. You'll come like
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: fee in the night.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: It's harder now than ever. But you have to seek truth,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and you have to speak truth.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: And to seek it and speak it. And that's what
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: you doubt. Yeah, we are about seeking and speaking truth.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I don't care about offending you. If you're a Republican
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: or Democrat, I don't care about offending you. I don't care.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I don't care. If I offend you, then fine, go away.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not for you. I am in allegiance to no
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: one but my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And no
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I think they all need to burn.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know hopefully that will.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I have very little faith after what
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I saw yesterday. I have very very little faith that
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: they're going to prosecute most of these people.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think the best thing that we can
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: do just to bring light and love and hope is,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: you know, just to continue to pray and continue to
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: seek relationship with God. And you know, I think that
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: when I feel lost or hopeless, it's always the answer,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: you know, I just seek that relationship and spend time,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: you know, really talking to God and trying to hear
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: his voice and feel his presence, because that brings me peace,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: you know so, and we hope that can bring you, guys,
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: peace to you because I know this stuff is heavy.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: It's heavy and dark, and it can make your soul
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: feel just awful. You feel a little lost, it feels
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: sometimes it feels hopeless. Yeah, when the world feels on fire,
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: and it definitely has lately, you know, everywhere you turn, Yeah,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: it can feel very hopeless. And we but more than anything,
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I think what we want to be here at the
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Love Doc is a is a light and a beam
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: of hope for people forward. If you have been in
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: an abusive situation or you're deeply unhappy in your relationship.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: We want to be a hope forward, a light forward.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's so many wonderful episodes where you know,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: doctor Hensley drops so much knowledge. I mean, I say
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: this all the time, I know, and I use it
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: when I'm talking to people. But we've been friends now
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: eight years, and I still just gain so much clarity
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: when we sit here and we talk and we talk
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: about these really really important topics, and I'm like, I
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm so much smarter than I used to be, Like,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: like you know, on these types of topics, I feel
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: like I can. And it's kind of like a double
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: edged sword because now when I just like when I
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: talk to normal people and they just want to talk
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: about stupid stuff, I'm like, no, I'm gonna need to
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: get deeper. Yeah, like I'm an idiot diver.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: It does mess with your social life or you become
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: someone where people just magnetically are drawn to trauma dump
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: on you, and you've experienced that.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: I definitely have. I definitely have. I have too, and
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard. I've got to learn to hold
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: some boundaries around that. So but guys, hopefully you've enjoyed
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: this episode and you can walk away knowing that you know,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: in the darkness of this world, there is always hope
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and there is always a light, and we hope that
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: you know just two good old country girls from Kentucky
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: can give you some of that, yes, maam. And so please,
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: if you're looking for more intervention and to go deeper
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: into your healing journey, you can go see doctor Hensley
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: at the lovedoc dot com. Please continue to like, follow, listen,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: tune in every week. We have so much coming up
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that is just so exciting. Guys. We're gonna have our
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: own studios soon.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: We're we're gonna have our own studio.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be amazing.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: We are going to decorate it so freaking cool, Hollywood.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So it's just continue to tune in. Obviously,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: if you just listen, you can always go to YouTube
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: and watch all of our episodes are there, and you
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: can you know, as we evolve into the studio, our
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: new studio space, we hope we'll we'll create lots of
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: content around the remodeling and all that. We've got some
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: work to do.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Oh it's a fixture.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: We got some work to do. But we would love
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: to take you guys on that journey because that's fun.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: That's really fun. We're gonna get our hands starty. Yes,
• 51:51
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• 51:54
  Speaker 1: guys continue to follow along. We love you all. Please
• 51:57
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• 52:00
  Speaker 1: a testimony because you've gone through doctor Hinsley's group, please
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: reach out to me at rain at thelovedot dot com
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: and we will get that taken care of. And please,
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: until next time, peace, love and perspective