Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / John Battersby: Massey University defence and security studies professor on whether to recognise Palestine as a state

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John Battersby: Massey University defence and security studies professor on whether to recognise Palestine as a state · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So Australia says they're going to recognize Palestine in September.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: We're weighing up our position and there will be a
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: month where we talk about this amongst the cabinet. This
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: comes after Australia back to two state solution at the UN,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: joining the UK, France and Canada. We've always back to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: two state solution, but there's a difference when you actually
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: declared that Palestine a Palestine state, you recognize the Palestine state.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: So to talk about the nuance of all of this
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: is John Battersby, who is a massive university He's at
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the Massive University Center for Defense and Security Studies.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Good morning to you, John, Good morning.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: So what is this? Is this virtue signaling? Is this
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: just a symbolic gesture or does it have a real power.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I think it is largely a symbolic gesture, and it's
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: brought on, obviously by what your previous speaker was talking about,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: the herrendous consequences that are being felt in Gaza as
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: a result of the Israeli response to the October twenty
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: twenty three event. And I think the the vast feeling
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: of public opinion in several countries is something needs to
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: be done to try and pull the Israeli action back.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: There's internal dissent in Israel itself over the effect of it,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: so any move really in this direction may be able
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: to temper there. So I think while it is somewhat
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: symbolic in terms of recognizing a state that probablys in there,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: there is there is an effect that may have.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, indeed, it's pressure on as well as pressure on us.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, how big is this move from Australia to
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: do this, to declare this now, and will our government
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: now be feeling the pressure to join the herd?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: I think there'll be a general Yeah, there'll be a
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: general pressure up here, pressure of other states. A number
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: of other states already recognized under forty seven. I think
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: you have already done so, so there will be We'll
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: probably have to justify why we don't. I think would
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: be the would be the case. Well, the problem is, though,
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: I think that it's probably recognizing it for the wrong reason.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: It's recognizing it as a counter to Israeli action, rather
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: than recognizing the integral of a Palestinian state itself.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: A state which is divine with territory and people and
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: governance and law and authority because it's not just oh
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: it's a state. There's a whole lot before you can
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: become a state, isn't it.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Well, that's right. And it's divided between the West Bank
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: and Gaza or the big chunklet is rather than between
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and Gaza is heavily contested between Hammas in Israel, and
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Hammas is an autocratic organization. There's no friend of democracy.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: A number of Arab states don't support it. So yeah,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: there's some big questions around this.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. Is there any downside?
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Is there a downside to recognizing it? Ye? Possibly in
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the future, but governments tend to act in the moment,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and that the key crisis at the moment is the
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: perceived overreaction of Israel and the detrimental effects it's having
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: on the people of Gaza, and that's probably the most
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: urgent thing that needs to be done. So yeah, there
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: probably is the downside, that it's probably down the road.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: John Badisbey, I thank you so much from the Massive
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: University Center for Defense and Security Studies.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: For more from Early edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live
• 3:05
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• 3:08
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