Latest / Dispatched & Dysfunctional / The Four Rules of Nursing That Could Save Your Career—and Your Sanity — Derek Hadinger
Transcript
- Derek And Wendy: So Chris, thanks for having us. you. Absolutely. Christopher Stockton: Thank you all for coming. welcome back to Dispatch is dysfunctional. Today's guest has spent years working in healthcare, seeing patients at their most vulnerable, the moments most people never see and honestly wouldn't know how to handle if they did. He's a nurse and the author of 10 years strong black coffee and strong wild patients. And he apparently loves coffee. A collection of stories, things about humor to the kind of situations that stick with you long after the shift ends. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, ⁓ yeah. Christopher Stockton: Derek, I've introduced you to best of my ability, but like always, I like to let my guests introduce themselves so people hear who you are, what you've done, and then we can get into it. Derek And Wendy: ⁓ my goodness, I don't want to implicate myself. I'm just kidding. Well, my name's Derek Haddinger. I'm a goofball middle child. Grew up in a solid Christian home, very introverted. Started off doing artwork, reading a bunch of books. We didn't have a TV in the house for at least eight years. And every time I get grounded, I get thrown in the room with the books in it. Christopher Stockton: you Derek And Wendy: Feed my brain, feed my brain before you know it. You know, go through high school, play in a band. was getting ready to go to Career Center for Art College. Parents are going through divorce. Hey, I'm not responsible enough. I just played in a band for a while. Woke up, it was about a month after a buddy mine gave me a Harley Davidson to ride. I hopped on it one morning, went to a church and I said, I'm getting baptized. some man of faith, but the Lord said, Derek, you're getting baptized this one. So I went out. About a week after that, I woke up out of a dream. I hear my name and I went to grab the guy speaking to me and I'm like, well, there's no one in the room. A week later, woke up and I heard the word nursing and I said, all right, God, here I am. So I was going to a community college to get a teaching degree. Didn't know really what I was doing because I had given up a an art scholarship. I thought it was arbitrary whether I get a scholarship or art or not. I'm going to draw or paint. You know, what are you guys going to do for me? Turn me into a robot is what I thought. Yeah. My wife proves the other side of the story. I went I actually went to art school and I went the other route. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ makes sense. So he started as an artist and went into nursing and then you are an artist. What's... Okay. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I played in a band right after high school. A guy grew up across the street from it. He came in one day. This BP I worked out to buy a lighter. I'm like, you don't smoke cigarettes, Todd. He's like, no, you want to jam with us? Of course go down there. Start burning number. Next thing you know, I'm in a band for 10 years getting crazy. Yeah. was, I had no room for organization, the authority structure from all of the art. was like, well, if I can already do all of this. then when the really, when I got the Lord straightened me out, all right, you're still a wild guy, Derek, but you're doing my bidding now. I got into nursing on what people would say a whim. That's the first time I ever really had a, what you would call a supernatural experience and hearing this voice saying, do this. So I immediately got on the phone, switched my pathway to nursing. took all my pre-med courses, went to Mount Carmel College of Nursing after that. My daughter was born. was going to their advanced track and then the assistant dean of the college, God bless her, she's like, Derek, you're not gonna make it anywhere else. You're just an unusual guy. God chose you to be a nurse and I'm saying this because you need to go through this experience. You're not gonna make it anywhere else right now. You are on a calling and I'm going to make sure that you have time with your wife and daughter and you can come back into college. So she basically allowed me to reprieve, set everything up where I could go back in the regular track program. Her and a few people personally assisted me financially getting through the college, some scholarships and everything else. And then I got to work at the hospital. My first job was the hospital I was born at. Hmm. That is- Absolutely. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ that's cool. That's something that a lot of us can't really say. Derek And Wendy: I'm doing transport while I'm going to nursing college and ⁓ my daughter's mom who passed from triple negative breast cancer, her dad had passed away, had a bunch of Bibles and I was just wheeling around these patients and I'd give them Bibles and we'd tell stories and all of that. I would, the floor I started working at, that one lady who had just graduated from Mount Carmel like the semester prior, she's like, ⁓ you should work up here. I'm like, well, I would like to work where basically it was an intermediate med search floor, telemetry, vents, all of that intense stuff. And I was like, well, I'll learn to the best of my abilities. Hopped right in and five, six patients after two weeks, you're like fully immersed in it. And that's where the eventually the opening of this book started out from that, you know, that whole experience. Christopher Stockton: I'll bless you enough with that I'll see you. Derek And Wendy: As you mentioned earlier, know, experiences people really don't know how to handle, you get immersed in things. I am so thankful I was called to be a nurse because being, you know, my background was music, was artwork, you know, faith, delving into things maybe I shouldn't be delving into. ⁓ Having a, you know, I worked as a bike messenger for years. So when I did that, I would hang out with like the homeless people downtown, chill out with them to just sweet people. when I would see him in the hospital, all of a sudden all these what I thought were bad negative experiences that I'm just being a rascal ended up being a testimony and tools to help me navigate 10 years of insanity. Christopher Stockton: Yeah. Yeah. Funny. It's funny you say it that way because a lot of us, you know, we, we don't realize how much we affect others even outside of our jobs. when we see them at a job, you know, it makes such a difference in the patient care and in our own minds, because, you know, like you said, I know a family that he goes and preaches to the homeless people and, you know, I've witnessed it a few times and it was, it was just cool to Derek And Wendy: You are so right. Christopher Stockton: be able to see a few of them and understand that, you know, that's not their choice to be homeless a lot of times. Yes, it is, but most times not. ⁓ And to be able to get to know them and then have one of the guys that I met be a patient, I was able to understand him better in the end and empathize more than just be able to, well, you're just full of it. You know, I'm not going to treat you properly, you know. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. You right. Wow. Yes. You know, you make a really, wow, I'm goosebumps, a really important statement. what really? It matters so much. you know, people you go about your business, you know, I'm going to use the word reference the book of James, you know, someone comes in and goodly apparel, you let him sit up front, hey, do your thing. And the guy looking rough, you get this backseat, you know, you're becoming judges. You have judges of evil thoughts and things. And a lot of these people are they're homeless because the system that doesn't like love, that doesn't like people who want to not work with the system. They don't chew them up, spit them out and do everything they can. You get to see the side of them that you never get to see otherwise. They're in their worst position. I have four rules of nursing. There's four rules of gun safety. I have four rules of nursing, nursing safety. One, that person that you're about to encounter is having the worst day of their entire life and they will immediately take it out on you until proven otherwise. And then if you go in with an attitude, you're done. Two, that person's pathology has made them confused. So you're dealing with the most confused person you've ever met in your life until proven otherwise. Three, every person you encounter is in extreme false risk with prejudice until proven otherwise. And four, every patient is a diabetic and or needs a cardiac medication until proven otherwise and you better stay on top of it. And if you do that, 90 some, Percent of things are mitigated right then and there. If you don't follow those rules of safety, yeah, you're in big trouble. But when you do and you walk in the room and somebody says, hey, how you doing? What's going on? ⁓ I'm in pain. I'm such and such. Right away, they give you the shoes, say, these are the shoes I need you to wear to tend to me, put them on and do it. You don't have to think about your job. You just immediately cut to the quick. Christopher Stockton: And that's where a lot of us. Derek And Wendy: serve them right there. And then as you know, when stuff hits the fan down the road, they're pouring out their emotions, they're getting down, they're letting it rip, but not everyone else except you. You're the one who is there to take care of them, to advocate for them. Hey, my patients allowed to cut you out doc, cause you got them mad, know, stuff like that. I'm right here and you'll see people who you thought were rough, who you thought didn't know a thing, teach you and humble you in ways I've gone home and embarrassed and cried like God I thought I knew something that homeless person shamed me to death. And I was so thankful to be there and I'd be like look I'd give my last dollar to pay their hospital bill send them home and cook them a meal because of what they taught me. Christopher Stockton: And it's funny, you know, I'm sure you've seen it and I'm sure you've probably had it is, you know, burnout at one point. Once we get burned out, we all become, like you said, the judge, the jury. And we don't realize a lot of the times, I know I did on the truck for a while and I finally got off the truck, got offshore. Now I'm an industrial plant, but it's, it's humbling to be able to Derek And Wendy: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, wow good point. Yeah Christopher Stockton: you know, go see a patient that at one point, ⁓ they're a regular caller. They're a frequent caller. They're, you know, a POS or whatever you want to call them. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hear that a lot. Yeah. Christopher Stockton: And, and one of the ones I've met, I regret treating her the way I did in the end. A lot of the times after I got to know her better, ⁓ they are calling on the worst day of their lives. You know, a lot of times that it's not, it's not that I'm blaming anybody. I'm honestly blaming the job and in the end on that is we all do get burned up because we all run our butts in the dirt under the dirt. You know, we are. Right. Derek And Wendy: Yes. It's the way it's set up. Christopher Stockton: And the one I'm talking about, she wound up passing up a heart attack, ⁓ and we didn't ⁓ assess properly ⁓ the call before, and the hospital didn't assess properly. It was just a bunch of failures at once because she was a regular. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Wow. Wow. ⁓ my goodness. See, I have a few stories in that book. That's... Okay. Christopher Stockton: Yeah. Derek And Wendy: You really touched on a thing that I get so, sorry I'm gonna start crying here. I get so passionate about. We're not, we're not there for us. You're, exactly, and your story there reminds me of, I was at the end of my shift trying to chart, they're complaining it. ⁓ you chart way too late. I'm like, I'm in here for the patients. I'm a new nurse, know, whatever, take it easy, guys. They, Christopher Stockton: Okay. We're there for that. Derek And Wendy: Transport wheels up a patient drop dumps him off in this corner way. Where's the nurse? I don't know looking to give the chart to somebody person codes Well, this person had just come back from an unsuccessful surgery staples and all that switch to code the DNR CC. Nobody really knew Doctors go rushing in there into bait start doing Staples pop out. This is gonna be intense for any listeners. I watched the innards of this person come out and blood and frost come out of the mouth and just every compression. then somebody's like, stop, stop, stop there. And whoa, next thing you know, this patient's wife comes up. What the F are you doing? You murdered my husband. And there was a lack of communication as to where his room was at. She had wrestled with security downstairs. Like you're saying, was a catastrophic failure all the way through. I stayed there and I got the chaplain. said, Steve, ⁓ however long I need to stay here to help out with this. And we sat there, he went in, let this lady hit him, scream at him and all of that. And she apologized and he's like, that's okay. He prayed with her and we talked and we talked. Next thing you know, this guy's brother comes up, he's built like a brick poop house, ready for revenge. I'm gonna, security had to chase him out. We had to call the cops on him. It was in... And it was all is what we've been talking about, you know, this one you get burned out to a lack of assessment. People are all God, I got to get home. I'm not going to wait on that nurse. Whatever it is. That's the result of what happens. We're in an environment where really we don't have a choice and that can burn us out too if we're not in the right state of mind. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, very true. you know, it's kind of sad. But honestly, true, like you said a minute ago, is we should, as you felt with that patient, you should be able to feel for the patient's families. You should be able to feel for your patient. And that's one of the reasons I actually came back from offshore is I had a guy I knew quite well. He went up hanging himself offshore. I'm the one that discovered him. I'm the one that had to take him down. But, you know, it's, and again, there was nothing we could have done about it. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. ⁓ wow. ⁓ man, that's heartbreaker. Christopher Stockton: he did 20 signs or symptoms or nothing, but it showed me how to help the others around me with their psychological factors and their own health. it helps to understand that from that perspective, in my opinion, from any patient you look at. Again, you may, we all, yeah. Derek And Wendy: Yeah, yeah. You speak fat. You say it's your opinion, but you've, nailed it with community. You're that person. Okay. You didn't see any of these symptoms or anything else. You were there doing this honorable thing and saying, well, I can't change. What do I do about it? You know, that's, that's the whole key is what do we do about it? And it just, ⁓ to minister to other people around that person, I realized that patient, like you've probably seen it, you're dealing with someone and a family member comes in, blood pressure goes up, heart rate goes up, all these vitals and they don't say a word, you're like, ooh, everything's so connected. And I'm so thankful that you light onto that and that you're tuned into that and a part of helping ameliorate those circumstance, know, whatever's going on by dealing with a family because Well, a lot of times that's what gets people in trouble in the first place. No one was there to listen. No one was there to talk to them. How many times? Okay. How many times have you encountered somebody where you're dealing with the end result of a symptom from a diversion in a path, maybe even in their childhood, they decided I'm going to keep my mouse and go this way because I was put down. ⁓ I wasn't loved, right? I wasn't listened to. And really all these health problems I've dealt with, that's what it's gone back to boil down to is something that happens and it puts a mindset and therefore opens up doors for people to entertain things that are either good or bad for their health. ⁓ True. It's a continuum. Christopher Stockton: Yeah. And, you know, on the other side of things too is we've all seen the bad patients. We've all had the horrible patients, but we also have those ones that just make us look back and smile and laugh. You know, do you have any of to think of? Derek And Wendy: No. Yeah, you got that right. ⁓ my God. I this guy. So I go in this room. ⁓ I just, it's probably a year or two into my, my nursing career on this floor, 92 year old guy, his wife, she sit back to big old grin on her face. just respiratory problem, had pneumonia. And there's a nursing student teachers like, he don't mind helping out the student. like, ⁓ I don't mind at all. Proper young lady. Well, we're trying to move this guy up. All right, so I go through that student, let's do this or whatever. And he's trying to say something like stop and listen to me. I'm an old guy. These things hang. So we move him up and he's like, do you have an effing boyfriend? And his wife's sitting back there like, hmm, that's just good. Girl was like, her eyes are all white. My balls, my balls. I'm an old man. Don't you know how to treat a guy's balls? I'm sitting there, keeping the straight face. And she's all like. And his wife's back there, yeah, he's an old man. when old men get up, well, you know, when you go to like the fair or something, you see these animals and they hang out. Well, that's what happens to these old men. And to keep them happy, you just know how to treat their balls. OK. And she kept her mouth shut in this girl and the guy poker face. So we were doing debriefing afterwards. And I'm dying laughing explaining this girl they were pulling a joke on. And she was just freaked out. And thankfully. Her rest of her nursing career, I'm sure was hilarious, but those totally broke the ice. And this guy, we started cracking jokes. He was so freaking hilarious. This respiratory guy comes by, he's coughing and coughing and coughing. You need a respiratory? Get out, get down the hall, you son of a bitch, and give it to someone who needs it. This guy's cracking jokes the best my lungs ever were. Get down the hall. That stuff don't work nothing. And everyone in the hallway starts busting laughter all day long. helped him clear out a lot of his lungs. One of the funniest guys ever. And his wife, I was just like, no, she didn't. And really, it helped put me at ease because they're like, hey, we've been around a while. That guy's doing all right. This young lady's nervous. Let's teach him a thing in life. And it was a beautiful humorous lesson. Christopher Stockton: Awesome. Yeah, yeah, that's very true. ⁓ You know, I've had a couple of those that I still laugh to this day. One, it shouldn't really be as funny as it is, but... Derek And Wendy: Yeah, sorry. Christopher Stockton: it we had we actually ran to this lady's house because she was having a heart she was having a true heart attack and it's thanksgiving day so we pull up we get it we get to we get to the door the family's there she's sitting on the she's sitting outside on the picnic table get her on the stretcher she's like ⁓ you're not gonna eat yet no ma'am we kind of gotta get you to the hospital ⁓ well we gotta feed you before we go no ma'am we gotta go we ain't playing this crap let's go Derek And Wendy: ⁓ my goodness. Christopher Stockton: She's like, well, I cook so much and I only have so little family. I'm like, okay, well, I appreciate that, sweetie. Thank you. It took us 15 minutes to talk her out of trying to give us food. We wound up getting to go, but still. It was like, good Lord, I need to get you to the hospital. You were having a heart attack. Derek And Wendy: ⁓ Wow. Wow. ⁓ my goodness. You're so right when you say, it shouldn't be so funny in a way. I'm thinking of that guy. And then you tell me this. We're in situations where there is no other place you could crack a joke and live to tell about it. What I've cracked jokes and I've had people crack jokes like, and I've had doctors and people look over. But when you know you're, can read the room, know your patients. have to, it's that gut feel, I guess you get a sense of it. Christopher Stockton: This is very true. Derek And Wendy: Man. Some of the most dire situations, yeah, people have just died, they're about to die in front of you and the ones dying are cracking jokes like... Christopher Stockton: Right, yep, yep. Derek And Wendy: It's how you deal with it. There's no other option. It's like, well, we got to break the ice. We're human. We're going to suffer. We're going to go through this. Let's make fun of ourselves while we're doing this. And it really, it's a survival mechanism. Powerful tool of humor is, I tell you what. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, and... I actually had a patient that, it wasn't really funny, but it was interesting to see how she joked about something because she was, we wound up going to the house and not knowing that she was being sold type deal. And she was just joking about it. She's like, yeah, you know, I make them all this money. I'm like, ⁓ okay, cool. I'm like, where do you live? ⁓ I don't know. I'm not. Derek And Wendy: ⁓ yeah. Christopher Stockton: I'm not sure where they're sending me next. I'm like, oh God, like, okay, you want to go to the hospital? Yeah, I want to go to the hospital. And of course, you know, we wound up getting the FBI and all that involved later, but it was just like, it was just like, okay, this was, why are you joking about this? I mean, again, mental compensation, but. Derek And Wendy: Wow. Wow. Yeah. The things you hear, it's almost like you've probably heard confessions when people are in a situation and okay, here's someone that is authentic. I've had conversations countless where people are like, well, yeah, this and that happened or hey, have you seen this? like, they're like, how do you know these things? I'm like, I really can't tell. Yeah. We can't hold onto and it made me realize a part of a disease process, a part of pathological process is holding on to things you don't want to admit. People hate to admit that they're wrong, that everything they've taken stock in is a lie and they just have to change right away. And so they grab on harder to something, I'll take a pill for this or I'll do this for that. And it just piles on. Then you're in there dealing with the tail end of when it exploded and when they got burned out. ⁓ You're like, wait, how am going to handle, you know, yeah, after 10 years, that book I wrote was like, I was driving home one day from a per diem job I had and God said, get out. Like, whoa. It was just, I had reached a point where I was being sent to places, the nursing homes where I'm the only nurse there and it looked like a bomb went off and it's like, I'm a walking potential sentinel event, things like that. I'm sure you've run into that. What's most unexpected thing that you like, know, humans like to hide things. Christopher Stockton: Yeah Yeah, I love the nurse at home. Derek And Wendy: What's ⁓ something that's made a mark on you that you're like, whoa, I wasn't expecting? Christopher Stockton: Um, I was actually told by one father that this, he was, he's an NVC and he had traumatic injuries. We, he, he didn't make it in and he, he, I think he knew it. He wound up actually telling his son on the back of the ambulance, don't tell your mother, but you're not mine. Derek And Wendy: wow. That's intense. Christopher Stockton: He's like, I've known it from beginning. was like, oh, okay then. Jerry, here we go. Derek And Wendy: Talk about ripping a veil and going like, ⁓ my life has just changed instantly. Wow. Yeah, there are those experiences and really. Christopher Stockton: Yeah. Derek And Wendy: You know, when you're the healthcare provider, you're the one who's maybe a mediator, a translator for weird situations. Half the time, that's what it amounts to. You learn tact real quick and you take ownership of conflict but when stuff like that happens, like judo, use people's energy against them and you're gonna pay the price for this, Christopher Stockton: Yeah. yeah. hey, i gotta step the fuck back for a second, i'm sorry. i know you said you wanted to have some plane, but i had to throw that one in there. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Very well put. Yeah, you're speaking fact once again. Yeah, ⁓ they're just so much. What's the most? Christopher Stockton: but let's look to handle this. Yeah, it... Derek And Wendy: Like profoundly rewarding experience, like someone catering to you that you've had. Like you're about to have his worst day and someone out of the blue, because I know you've had. Christopher Stockton: Honestly, it was actually, this was a cool one. Me and my partner, it was our first shift on the truck with me. And we get a birth in progress, delivery in progress, whatever you want to call it. So we go to the house, we deliver in the back of the truck, take the mom to the hospital, the baby in the hospital. Everything's good. Three months later, we get a call and we get to re-meet the baby and actually name the baby after my partner, which was awesome. Derek And Wendy: Okay. ⁓ well, wow. ⁓ wow! Christopher Stockton: I was like, that is cool. I mean, it was a female baby and a female partner. So was like, that's, that's just awesome. And apparently they wanted our birth, our names on the birth certificate. So that's why they wound up actually putting on there. And it was just, it was just really cool to be able to see the baby again and treat the baby and the mom and. Right. That was cool. That was one of Derek And Wendy: Wow. ⁓ wow. You're part of their family. that. mean, that's a beautiful thing. I've had people adopt me in their family and you're part of someone else's family. It's such a community. And thank you. Thank you for what you do to, we're like commandos that bringing all these disparate parts of our culture and they all kind of have to meet in this, in a way, the healthcare hub is where you're going to find them all at one point or another. And well, it's so true too. Like when you, when you were mentioning Christopher Stockton: Right. Derek And Wendy: before that when you guys meet someone, you're meeting them for the first time on probably one of, at least one of the worst days of their lives, or one of the most challenging days of their lives and painful days of their lives. And it makes me think of my own experience when ⁓ I gave birth to my first ⁓ child. And ⁓ I'll just never forget the nurse who took care of me ⁓ after the delivery. and just how much care she gave me. especially as a mom, you're taking care of, you're the one who's supposed to be taking care of other people. And ⁓ when someone's taking care of you, almost, feel tears coming because you're just, you can't, having that experience of someone really caring for you and taking care of you. is such and doing such a great job at it and it just means so much and I will never forget that nurse. I will never forget that lady. I wish I could remember her name but I'll never forget the person and the way she looked and just the care that she gave me and how she made me laugh and it made me feel at ease when I was going through a lot of pain and and it was a very you know difficult situation for me but she She made all the difference. You guys are the superheroes in my mind. So as you were saying, starting out, you wonder, you know, what kind of an impact you make on others. Yeah. The story like how many every person you've encountered. I'm just going to put out there now that I'm talking to another person, you know, you're analyzing your own thoughts and don't think of some things with every person that we've encountered within this context. Yeah. They have changed our life and we have changed their life in. Christopher Stockton: that is calling. Derek And Wendy: It is unavoidable. And to what degree is how much you put into it. And that's intense to be the fulcrum. You're part of this portal, this catalyst, this altar for change in a situation. And the responsibility that falls upon us is huge. But that's why we have to be jokesters. We have to be authentic. I had a guy, ⁓ you grew up in a... Christopher Stockton: funny Derek And Wendy: churchy Christian square, you don't cuss. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Oh, you're cool guy. I'm like, yeah, shut the fuck up for a second. I love the Lord, but saying that it's a cultural thing, whatever. And it got him to listen. Yeah. From there on out, I never swore again. Pardon my French to make a point. Yeah, it grabs people's attention. Speak their language. Yeah. But he made a profound impact on Christopher Stockton: Yeah, it- It's. Derek And Wendy: on me, it was just kind of like, wow, you're already have this perception on me. You're wound into it based upon how my peers look at me. ⁓ here comes Derek. He's doing this. So based on the social construct of how I appear within the workings of the floor, someone has a presupposition about me. So I have to go in and just break all that down and be like, dude, I don't care about me. I'm not here for me. And Christopher Stockton: It's interesting too because like you were saying, we do impact everybody, but at the same time, if we give them a bad experience, it normally outweighs the good experiences. And that's bad thing is, you know, I've had patients that, ⁓ well that last crew treated me like shit. I'm sorry. I'm not going to treat you that way. They're like, ⁓ well they didn't listen to me. They didn't pay attention to my passion. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yes. ⁓ yes. Yeah. And in doing that though, they're giving you exactly. You are so, ⁓ wow. Yeah. I use that on people. ⁓ I don't want to listen to that. I'm like, look, you're getting an instruction manual for how to be the best nurse or whatever, ever. They're those are what they didn't get. ⁓ no. I got you on all that. Next thing you know, you're in like Flynn. ⁓ Wow. He just showed me a key to something. Thank you. I mean, that I can, it's like an unconscious thing. We buy instinct. guess understand that. But for people listening, Christopher Stockton: Yep. Derek And Wendy: Yeah, when you hear somebody complaining, not getting treated right and all that, take it to heart because most humans don't want to go out of the way to treat someone how they would treat themselves. Really? It's a paycheck. want to get home, whatever. But when somebody is complaining and yelling, take it as a compliment in a way, because you're the one there. They trust you enough to address grievances. And yeah, they may be yelling and don't feel put down because they're like, hey, maybe you're the solution. I'm telling you what someone else didn't do and I'll, all right, thanks. I was always the solution because they let me know how to do it. Oh wow. You're a great nurse. No, I'm not. I just listened to their needs. You get to change their perception. Yeah. I'm a great listener. I'm an okay nurse. I just get better and better every day of what I do, but I, I'm great at listening to people and saying, Hey, I'm no better than you. Sweet man. What can I do for it? Christopher Stockton: I'm an okay middle. Yeah. There's no difference in that's one thing that I still don't, I've been at EMS for 10 years now and I still don't understand the whole nursing versus EMS thing either. I've yet to understand that, you know, we're not better than the other. You y'all have specialties, we have specialties. Why that can't be understood. I don't know. I won't ever know. But anyways. Derek And Wendy: ⁓ wow, wow. Yeah. Yeah. It's pride, it's egos. People get in this big old pissing contest and like, well, got to, know, ⁓ RN, used to walk around refreshments and narcotics. mean, come on, what's this badge really mean? I should be able to carry myself, talk to somebody, give them a solid answer and be like, okay, you know what you're doing. And it doesn't matter what a badge or anything says. that pharmacists, EMTs, even housekeeping, some of the... most informative and wonderful people I've ever met in the doctors. like, ⁓ gosh, I'm gonna put this doctor, I've chewed out doctors before and had the authority to do it because I was advocating for that homeless patient or whatever that got treated like shit. All right, doc, here we go. I never backed down from that either. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, and then. Yeah, the other day I was actually getting chewed out for taking a patient due to an injury. And I'm like, no, no, I don't want to take what y'all want to take them. I'm taking them. I need to take them. you know, it's again, it's, one of them things to where we have to advocate for our patients. have to advocate for our peers. We have to advocate for even, even if we don't get along with the nurses or the nurses don't get along with the medics or whatever the doctors, we have to advocate for each other because we are all one team to help. Derek And Wendy: Absolute. Christopher Stockton: the people that we are trying to help. Derek And Wendy: Amen to that. That bears repeating for sure. That's what it's all about. Yeah, and then people's egos and then all this stuff gets in the way a lot of times and it's just like... I knew a guy, and I guess to put it bluntly, like, hey, a guy used to jam with, he's like, yeah, if you're there for your ego, your dick or your pocketbook, you're in it for the wrong reason. I'm like, well, why are you doing this then? But he made a good point. They're throwing around all their degrees and this and this and this. There's a proverb, even a fool looks smart when he keeps his mouth shut next to someone who's basically bloviating next to them. ⁓ Christopher Stockton: Very true. Derek And Wendy: And thank you for saying advocating. That's the whole reason really I was called to be a nurse is when, you know, being a bike messenger, seeing these homeless, indigent people. My dad, when we were in church, you know, we had Haitians live with us for a little while. They had next to nothing. We're like happy, sweet people. He would find homeless people, hey, come over to our house and let him, it was unusual for the rest of society to grow up in something. like that, but that was how I grew up and it really showed me the importance of. And as you're saying, yeah, you just made me think of what you just said here a moment ago about, you know, people you may not like or nurses, you may be battling with them. When you stand up and advocate and do the right thing. I've had a mom with a doctor, we would butt heads. I was advocating for this patient later up. She's like, Hey, can you give me Heparin shots? I'm pregnant. I was the one who gave her her Heparin shots. She showed me her baby pictures. Hey, come in on this meeting with me. All of a sudden, wow, you were advocating for that patient. Yeah, we didn't disagree, but I see what you were doing and boom, you're the nurse I'm going to. Well, that's what it's all about. Yeah. Christopher Stockton: Yep. That's not how it worked. know, and that, you know, like you just said, that's the thing that should stand out is the connection that we have with our patients. You know, in healthcare, we get stuck with the tasks, the vitals, the protocols. ⁓ but we have to build the trust with the patients, you know, when they're, they're scared or holding something back from us, we got to do that. So I mean, as a nurse, Derek And Wendy: Amen. Yeah, you're right. Absolutely. Christopher Stockton: in ICU, ER, or anything like that. How would you explain that someone who's not understanding how to do that? How would you build that trust, you think? Mm. Derek And Wendy: Wow, good question. ⁓ Sit down right next to him. ⁓ What do you need? It's the first thing. Hi, I'm Derek, I'm gonna be your nurse. What can I do for you? What do you need? That's always the first thing. That's their chance to let it all out right away. And in doing that, that establishes the line of communication and you can build trust because what can I do? They tell you what they need. And if you can honor that, you will always be trusted, at least in that situation, because you are meeting their at least basic physiological, emotional needs. I've taken care of someone and the nurse like, ⁓ he murdered his ex-girlfriend years ago and you know he's got this rap list I don't want to hear Christopher Stockton: I don't care. Derek And Wendy: So what? I'm treating him like he's He's me in a hurt situation because I could be in that situation What if I didn't have a good upbringing? what if something happened where I'm in leathery strains, and I'm some punk or whatever and He was calm enough. I got him discharged and all that and people my boss is looking at me like I think you're gonna get murdered no No, because my worst enemy Christopher Stockton: That's not what they're here for. I'm ⁓ Derek And Wendy: If we can respect somebody's wishes and needs in the moment, there's a proverb that says, you know, when we basically treat people right and we show them love, God causes our enemies to be at peace with us. And it's proven over and over again, there'll be all crazy, just shot someone. I don't want to bleed out. Dude, dude, sit down. I'll give you pain medicine. I'll give you a tourniquet. Those cops will stay away for a while. I'm your man right now. No one's going to mess with you. I've been in that situation before. Cops are like, no, no, do, well, stabilizing just. Christopher Stockton: Back up. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. And the scariest person I've ever dealt with trusted me implicitly. And I did to them in that moment. had to. So it's trust. It's. It's earned, it's shown, and it's laid out immediately. Otherwise, one's not to be trusted. People are, ⁓ you need to respect me. I have this badge. You can trust me. Yeah, whatever. Look at politicians. They say that all day long. And then that's as far as I got. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, yeah, and you know the bad thing is if we don't build that trust, if we don't show them some protection, you know, we are not able to treat them. We are not able to get any information out of them. Derek And Wendy: Hahaha! You are, ⁓ wow, you're so... Can you please say that again? Seriously, that is... Christopher Stockton: Thank You know again if we don't have the trust you can't I actually have an instance with this again. It was a regular I had and I was again burned out and didn't treat him properly, but she wound up Getting pissed off at me enough because we were staging for a call She wound up throwing her bottle her pill bottles at me and calling me an asshole so After that, she would never talk to me again, it was really wrong. But, know, that's where that whole trust, you know, comes from. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, wow. You're so right. And that's how many times Derek, you need to be this person's nurse. You're the only one left who they were. I've lost count. How many times are that because of that mistrust or somebody says something and somebody comes at him another way. Like, no, I don't trust you at all. You talk to me like that. now you're in an expensive process. You're charging people all this money just to get them off. Christopher Stockton: but. Derek And Wendy: not fix anything, they'll be back later, and then they're gonna be pissed off at somebody else, and then all these medical professionals, well, let's get you to this next specialist. What? Yeah. Christopher Stockton: Yeah. And, you know, that's one of the things that I think a lot of us in the healthcare field need to learn better is, you know, to have better empathy with people too. Cause it seems to me, I'm not sure about you, but it seems to me like it's almost being lost a lot of the time now. You know, the. Derek And Wendy: Yes, yes. You are 100 % correct. Actually, I'm starting to write a book on that. It's about basically spiritual warfare and medicine. was doing credits for continuing education and all that. Getting into multiple sclerosis and all the pathology and all these different chemical pathways for treatment modalities and stuff. And it did not mention about the soul. It did not mention about one's feelings. Christopher Stockton: Right. 8 Derek And Wendy: one's connections to the world around them and how it affected their health. And it was like, well, if that didn't work, then we go into this and pushed farther away the human element. And as I was studying my credits, and this is just recently, I almost got like violently angry at the system, like, wow, I've worked in this. And now that I know so much, clearly, it's just more and more of a push. It's like, oh, by doing this, we can get better. By doing this, we can get better. I'm going out on a limb here. Evolution is taught. It's almost as a religion. You're forcing people to believe these things that they weren't there to believe in. But by evolving, we can get better. Well, that opens up a door. Well, let's try this drug. Well, let's try this thing. Well, let's try this and we'll get better and better. But the second law of thermodynamics says we tend to disorder and there's no rule against that. So we. We have this dissonance within the system. And when you take that human part out of it, you are so right. Empathy is gone. We can't empathize because we're using a metric. ⁓ It's like ⁓ moral relativism. Well, what's right here? Well, we'll adjust this. We'll keep it right. But there's no real truth. It's just something that fits the modern paradigm and idea to continue studying it and experimenting on people half the time, half the time medicine's super great. know, you're not taught to empathize basically. Yeah. You're taught to rely on a system, pills and methodologies and scientism instead of empathy, holding somebody's hand. There's a proverb kind words are like, you know, sweetness to the stomach. They're like medicine to your bones. mean, I Christopher Stockton: It's funny that Derek And Wendy: my wife's having a rough morning, I hugged her and instead of anxiety medication, boom. Yeah. The tears, yeah, that came from him just holding me and allowing me just allowing me to have that moment. The tears healed me just this feeling his just feeling that caring presence wrapping around me was enough to just heal me in that anxiety moment. It is amazing what just Christopher Stockton: It helps. Derek And Wendy: someone who cares will do for a human being. So you're a healer, sir. Don't forget it. Don't forget it. Amen. Christopher Stockton: Oh yeah, we all are, you know, we all can be. And, you know, the realm of... what we don't speak about a lot of times really is, bringing it home with us, bringing us home with us, the patients that stick with you that are bad, the patients that stick with you that are good, the unhealthy dealing with it, drinking alcohol, drugs, whatever, just the whole period of breaking down due to this. It's just something that... Derek And Wendy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Christopher Stockton: You know, we all got to start staying more grounded. don't, we all got to get help. We all have to, and we have problems. And. Me, myself, you know, I started seeing a psychiatrist. I feel a hell of a lot better than I ever did my whole damn life. And it's. Derek And Wendy: Absolutely. Good, good. Really, you do need to seek out. Thank you for saying that. Seek out good counsel on whether it's a psychiatrist, psychologist, a trusted friend or two that really can objectively listen and analyze. And, know, there's a proverb, the scorn of a friend is better than the kiss of an enemy. You know, find somebody who's willing to to be caring enough to to be truthful and to listen and keep it quiet like that. That is crucial. Otherwise, yeah, we can't do it by ourselves. I tried and I failed. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ yeah, we all will. There's no way to do any of this ourselves. It's too much for one person. Derek And Wendy: Yes. absolutely. And to your note to what the vein of what you're nailing a great point on the empathy and advocacy, the more Yeah, the more we reach out and get other people, I don't know, this community, this process, we do that enough. All of sudden we don't have to ask what's wrong. We instinctively know, and we just go help somebody out. We can see somebody going through something instead of, I wonder if like you instinctively know and you just, like my wife this morning, I was like, oh my goodness, I didn't give her enough hugs. That's why she's like that. And I stopped everything I was doing immediately. And, but that spreads, you know, you go through the community and someone's like, ⁓ wait, that person needs a hug. Wait, that person needs someone to sit down and say, Hey, just chill out for a second. You know, things that you've done for these people, you've planted a seed. Sometimes you've added water to it. Sometimes you maybe helped pluck something that was waiting to be plucked. Christopher Stockton: But the small actions add up to such a large amount. Derek And Wendy: Yeah, you're so right about that. And if you ignore that one small action, it all falls apart. Christopher Stockton: Yep. And so I know you only scheduled for 30 minutes, but ⁓ for the provider listening right now, maybe they're new, maybe they're burned out, maybe they're just trying to get through the next shift. What would you want them to hear right now? Derek And Wendy: Good one. It's okay. No matter what you do, what situation you encounter, you are human. The people you're dealing with are human. And if you're willing to sit there and listen and to put your personal feelings aside and allow someone to speak to you and you to respond to them. You will always learn something about yourself, obtain wisdom. You will always obtain good solid lasting relationships with people. And you will also set an example for how to, as this world's falling apart, lacking empathy to kind of pull out the thread. Love is like this thread and let's just sew it all back together. Be listening, be loving and fully presence. and know that your worst situation will teach you the greatest thing ever. Don't be afraid. Don't panic. It's all good. Christopher Stockton: So is there anything, this has stuck with me since day one, someone when I first got into EMS told me, you know, this job will change you, don't let it. Is there anything someone ever told you in the beginning that stuck with you? Derek And Wendy: I'll tell you something, this job will change you, please let it. That's why you're there. We have a calling, we're set up. We have a mission. Humans need purpose. We need to suffer, we need to feel joy. We need all of that to develop our character and to make us who we truly are. And once we finally realize that and can let that light shine, that just creates it for the next generation and the next generation. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ yeah, are you still actively nursing? Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Actually, funny thing, I'm delivering pizzas and I drive them by this. I. Yeah, I've been working at pizza delivery and the boss I have, he's his character. Nothing's by accident, but anyway, I drive out. There's this place called Kingdom Key Healthcare. My God, cool. Neat little agency. I kind of worked at one and then I'm driving by on a delivery and I hear this little voice in my head. Derek, why didn't you write that number down? All right, God, I'm going to get it this time. I go by and he's like, you forgot it again. So I get out of my vehicle, walk in, and the book I wrote basically gave to this, you know. Here's my resume. I called this lady, we talked for a while. ⁓ we weren't looking for a nurse. And I'm a man of faith. I saw your site. ⁓ wait a second. By listening and being fully present, well, next thing you know, an opportunity was created where there was none, basically. And then ⁓ Christopher Stockton: That's awesome. Derek And Wendy: I go in and walk in, her husband and her were about to leave to do something. We're trying to coordinate. I'm like, here's my book, basically my resume. We talked. And then she called back. We had this interview and my lovely wife sat in with me on it. She got to, I said, here's my emotional support wife. was an intense day. All this stuff was going on, but that really, it opened up a lot of doors and she got to see me from. Christopher Stockton: All of those. Derek And Wendy: the patient perspective, I guess. Like, yeah, you're interviewing me, but you're also seeing me in a somewhat dilapidated state. Really, it, it lended towards the authenticity of a situation. And yeah, she just lent me this job offer. And I was telling myself, man, if I get back into nursing. I need a job where it's not AI driven, metrics driven, stuff that we've been talking about driven, like you want to avoid. it's just like, I want to be there for the people, be out in the community, keep them from the hospital, do all of these things. And I, I said some prayer about it and yeah, after talking to this lady, it's exactly the nursing job I want to eat. And yeah, it's amazing. So now I get to go out. Christopher Stockton: That's awesome. That is awesome. Derek And Wendy: deal with these characters that we've talked about that are out in the community and be like, ⁓ I got some jokes for you. You think you're tough? But just to, meet them on their ground and their environment and their homes and help them feel comfortable with it's like, it's okay. You're different. Your home is your home. None of that really matters. What matters is you. Let's just work this out. And all this stuff is just stuff. I meet here. I'm a slob there. I do this. I don't do it. Who cares? You know, And a lot of people, that's what they need. And I'm thankful to be able to go out and do that. Cause you come into a hospital, well, you obviously need to change this. Well, you're doing this and well, maybe do they. Christopher Stockton: and I just to go in. Derek And Wendy: ⁓ Who knows? just need to be loved and met and explained as to why maybe alternatives would help them out and let them choose. Really, a lot of times you give people that, they'll choose the better option. They just need to be respected. Christopher Stockton: And it's like you said a minute ago is that the whole metric thing is to me, a bunch of bullshit, pardon my language. It's just like, you know, I don't understand why it matters if I have this number or this number shouldn't matter on is the patient alive as the patient dead. That should be what matters. I mean, Derek And Wendy: Metro, ton of bullshit. Exactly. You're right. And numbers get pushed around. Those people who are good at metrics, they'll get a job in local government finance after nursing sometimes. Like, whoa, that guy's really good at making us hire him. Yeah. I have to laugh at that sick joke. Christopher Stockton: He makes us money. Yeah, that's really what it amounts to. And that's just like, okay, that's not what this was about in the first place. Let's get away from that. I can understand the satisfaction in a way, but at the same time, you're not going to satisfy everybody. There's just no flipping away. That's possible. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. If you do, you're a sycophant and get out. I want to puke, you know? Yeah. Christopher Stockton: Yeah, I'm just saying there's no way you just can't because like you said, we're there for their worst day and if it's their worst day and you're making them happy enough to say, ⁓ yeah, this was a fantastic visit to an ER that stabbed me with needle, let me open. Hold on. What happened? Derek And Wendy: Absolutely. Ha ha ha ha. Christopher Stockton: You know, again, like you said, the whole metric thing is just like, no, I'm good. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great way to obfuscate a bunch of BS. And I really I would call it out like they, you know, I'd be charging her on the floor in the hospital. ⁓ we're doing this meeting and metrics say this. And I'm looking at my boss like, dude, don't even because when I would speak, you know, the the CEO of the hospital and the chief nursing officer. ⁓ do you have any suggestions? Yeah, we need a few more aids. We could do this in here like totally off the ranch. What they wanted me to Christopher Stockton: Shut up. Derek And Wendy: They wanted me to talk about this metric. went to what needed to be done. And I said, look, I'm willing to forego my raise. If you give my AIDS a razor, hire another one and use that money to do it. And the CEO of the hospital, he's like, you're being serious. I'm being dead serious. A couple of weeks later, everyone started getting raises. I can't necessarily say it was because of that, but I publicly embarrassed it, basically. Metrics. Bullshit. Christopher Stockton: I'm sure that has something to do with it there. that... Metrics. It's, yeah, again, I don't, I've never agreed with that. You know, I can understand using, you know, epidemiology, pathology, things like that. You know, things that I can actually be construed and. Derek And Wendy: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, good analytical tools to yeah, you're absolutely right. It just gives you a picture as to what is happening in real time and not painting a picture as to what you want somebody to believe. Yeah, the tool be tools are good when they're used properly, I guess. Christopher Stockton: right. ⁓ Yeah, it's like AI, know, all this whole, everyone's using this thing so freaking much and it's... Don't get me wrong, I use it, but not to the degree of others. I'm like, hold on a minute. You didn't write that. That is not what this was about. Derek And Wendy: Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It should be like a that wrench that tightens your like a torque wrench that you don't have or something like I I'm the one fixing this. I put the bolt in. I did everything, but I still need this to do, especially saying, you know, AIs. I I never really use it. And if I do, it's by accident because of. I'm just such a nerd, and it's one of those things to Make this point to nurses too. Study, read your books. Do not rely on AI. AI is built on a sycophantic platform. It will always agree with you. It has been known to lie. It uses up water, uses up natural resources that you need to maintain your health and your environment. Pull your head out of your ass. If you're going to use it to do your homework, learn something or get out of what you're doing. AI is really. Because of the heart of humans and what they want to use it to their own advantage all the time, it will never work as a way for public health. It will always be detrimental. Christopher Stockton: ⁓ yeah, unless they have one specific they have to a specific made one for health. Derek And Wendy: when it comes to things of that nature. Yes. Boom, yes, you are right. Program correctly, limited and all of that. And then yeah, it would be a wonderful tool for the benefit of humanity. I totally agree. Yeah. It's just unfortunate. Christopher Stockton: That'd be a great tool. I know a hospital around me has actually ⁓ started using one. They created it ⁓ and it reads radiographs, know, x-rays. Derek And Wendy: ⁓ wow. It's nice when you can create your own specific platform for your data collection and it just does that good. I'm all for that. Metadata and health. I'm sorry. What's that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You're so right. But just think how many million of pictures a robot can analyze in a second. Like your lungs and my lungs and her lungs. And we have a condition all of sudden that says, well, based upon my 10 trillion lung analysis within this three seconds, you're Christopher Stockton: It's It actually does diagnose. a diagnosis like And it was. Derek And Wendy: That really helps out. Christopher Stockton: It's funny, I talked to the radiologist one day, he gave me my x-ray back, he's like, yeah, I didn't notice this. like, then how did you see it? And he told me about it. I'm like, ⁓ okay, cool. Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Wow. Huh. Wow. Maybe. I mean, I'm a I'll rail out against it, but when in Rome do as the Romans do. So I appreciate this discussion. Maybe I think from here on out. OK, here's a tool. It's ubiquitous. I can't avoid its use. So let's change our mindset on how, when and why to use it. Christopher Stockton: That's whole thing is you gotta know when, gotta know why, and you gotta... Derek And Wendy: Yeah. Thank you for helping me see a different perspective. I appreciate that. Christopher Stockton: No, you're welcome. I mean, I'm not for it. I'm not against it. I'm you said, why not? Derek And Wendy: Yeah, yeah, really. It's like a firearm. It just sits there. And if you have to use it to defend yourself or you have to use it to target you or whatever, it doesn't do anything until it's acted upon, basically. And then just like any, guess, technological tool that we have, like the Internet or cell phones, it's like when used properly, correctly, you know, without malice or whatever, you know, it can be a really valuable tool. Silly human. Thanks. Christopher Stockton: Derek, had fun with it. So that was Derek Pettinger, a nurse and author and someone who's firsthand knows what it's like to connect with patients beyond just the medical and the side of things. Derek, for example. Derek And Wendy: Bye, friends. Thank you so much for your time. And if you ever want to reach out just to shoot the breeze or discuss, I really appreciate it, man. You have something that's, in my wheelhouse. You talked to a lot of people, you're like, okay, that was a great discussion, man. I'm off my world. I appreciate what you're doing. I can't thank you enough. Keep up your advocacy and to keep up what you're doing to share these things with people because yeah, in this world with this lack of empathy and everything else. We need this message to get out and I thank you for reaching out for all of this. Yeah. Christopher Stockton: Well, sir, I appreciate it. For anyone listening though, where can they find out more about you, your book, or connect with you? Derek And Wendy: ⁓ well, that's where I come in. Yes. ⁓ My beautiful publicist here. You go to ⁓ the ⁓ our our book website, which is C.A.W. Publishing dot com. C.A.W. Publishing dot com. That stands for create a way publishing and that you can find ⁓ all our books ⁓ and ⁓ especially Derek's ⁓ Derek's memoir, the Christopher Stockton: ⁓ cool. Derek And Wendy: 10 years of strong black coffee and strong willed patience. It's funny reading it myself. Even though I married to him, I learned a lot about him. Just reading the book. ⁓ crap, I married this guy. I was like, wow, I married a superhero. ⁓ geez. I didn't love him before. Man, wow. Also, because it's with health care and if anyone were to want to discuss anything with me. My personal email is d-e-e-r-a-k dot entertainment at gmail.com. D-rack entertainment at gmail.com. And I'm willing to talk with anybody about anything with healthcare, anything like that. I just think it's important to, to stay connected and reach out. It's all who you know. And his books, his book is also on Amazon on paperback, hardback and Kindle now. I feel like. Christopher Stockton: Very true. of sweet. Wait. Derek And Wendy: feel like a marketing person here. She's a rock star too. She publishes, rock star. She helps me behave out on the house. I'm bananas. Look at my shirt. Yeah. It's like wear the banana shirt today. ⁓ I found it very appealing. Christopher Stockton: I like that term. That was a horrible dad joke. Derek And Wendy: Thank you. you. I want something if my daughter watches this, she can go, ⁓ yeah, I did it. did it. Thank you, Chris. Christopher Stockton: I really do. I really appreciate you coming in and being real about all this, man. These conversations do need to happen. ⁓ Again, before we wrap up, what's one thing you want every listener to carry into their next shift or into the next day or so, or whatever you want to call it? Derek And Wendy: Absolutely, thank you. Sing a little song, go to your happy place and know that you're doing the greatest thing that you could ever do for anyone else by being there for them. And no matter how bad you feel, you have a reward you don't even know about waiting for you at some end down the road. Just keep the faith and know that people who I pretend to hate you, you're actually one of the most loved and respected people in society because you're willing to put your feelings aside and to be there for someone else. And that's a beautiful thing. And keep it up. Christopher Stockton: Yes sir. I'm going go ahead and hit stop now.