Latest / Roast the Post Podcast / Entry-Level Stockbroker: Vegemite and Volatility

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Entry-Level Stockbroker: Vegemite and Volatility · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: This week we're boarding a one-way flight to uncertainty.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: Meet the entry-level stockbroker role in Sydney,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Australia.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: A job so stuffed with swagger,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: it's hunting for talent in Canada and pitching you on a grand adventure
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: to work and live in the land of kangaroos and Vegemite sammies.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: You'll trade warm leads for cold calls,
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: You'll swap maple syrup toddies for harbourfront views and bet your career
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: on the grind towards your RG146 certification.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: The upside?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: A shot at the big leagues down under.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you can stomach the hustle and the sinking feeling that your
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: new career might just be a glorified sales gig with a side order of jet lag,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: is this the adventure of a lifetime or the financial equivalent
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: of a desert walkabout with no return ticket?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Let's roast this post.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that was that was a lot.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was a great opener.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: job ad, man, the thing that got me about this job ad
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: job ad, man, the thing that got me about this job ad
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: was that they're recruiting for this stockbroker position in Canada.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: They want someone from Toronto Bay Street,
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: our financial kind of hub, to go to Sydney and work there
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: as a stockbroker.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: That caught my attention.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: So this is interesting because I am not from Ontario at all.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm from the west coast of Canada,
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: like living on an island.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a very different type of energy.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: and while I think Victoria, BC, is huge,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: it's obviously nothing compared to Toronto.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I often do have to go to Toronto for work.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there is that financial district.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: there are like people in suits and business attire going for lunch
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: and business meetings.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just so like it's so different from the vibe here
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: on Vancouver Island.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so... and I don't know much about like that kind of world,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: the the finance world, but it doesn't surprise me then that they would
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: be sourcing from Toronto because it has such a huge like
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: that... business world,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: the finance world.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: but this is what we've talked about before in job ads,
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: where you gotta know where to find your ideal candidate.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so right off the bat, just based on your opener,
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: all you've done is is read your intro.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just based on that, I am already kind of giving them points
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: for knowing where they're gonna find their ideal candidate.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty cool.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder about the underlying kind of conditions that lead this
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: organization to recruit in another country.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Australian Stock Exchange,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: the ASX is fairly small, you know,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: compared to the TSX to definitely to the London Stock Exchange,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: definitely to the NASDAQ, the NYSE,
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: the ASX is a bit small, but it is a proper financial market where you
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: can buy and sell
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: equities and securities of Australian companies and registered organizations.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's no backwater thing.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real professional thing.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying, hey, there might be people in Toronto
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: or even in Montreal.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Montreal has a commodities trading exchange,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: is fairly well known.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying,
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: hey, we want to find people in Canada to move to Australia to sell our stocks,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: because we think that that might be a thing.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's a cool story.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like the thrust of what we're going to get into.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I just was gonna say that I've never been to Australia,
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: but I prefer marmite and I'm just gonna put that out there versus vegemite.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love marmite.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I actually like my mouth waters when I think about it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's in that sh*t,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: but it's good.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah,
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: marmite all the way for me, not vegemite.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: my mouth waters when there's a good mozzarella cheese in front of me,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: but not a blue cheese and not like
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: duck fat.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I have very pedestrian palate... tastes...
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: my tastes in food, pretty lame.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's so basic.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I see my mouth waters when I think about a blue cheese.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that maybe you don't like umami.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that what it is?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't like that umami kind of?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've never taken karate classes.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's get into the post.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're so far off track here.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: this is going to go down that road where we just talk about nothing
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: for two hours and people are going to be like...
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start off with the Roasty profile per the usual.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is just kind of an overview of the organization.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: The job title, and this is actually interesting.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: the job title on the job post was "Move to Sydney,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: entry level stock broker opportunity with sponsorship!!"
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: exclamation mark, exclamation mark.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the actual job title is entry level stock broker.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: The report to title is unknown.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: The company size is unknown.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: The industry is financial services.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: What does this organization do?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, presumably they're a regulated brokerage and seller of equities
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: and securities on the Australian Stock Exchange,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: the ASX.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Not quite sure, but that's what I pulled out of it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Head office location, Sydney, Australia.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Job location, Sydney, Australia.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Geographical operating area, Australia.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Job type, it's full time and it's permanent.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that is the Roasty Profile.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: that sets
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: the stage for us.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: The job ad itself is fairly short and to the point.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: There are a handful of sections.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's "Full Job Description".
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's the section that has everything in it.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's another section called,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: "From day one, you'll be..." Another section is called,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: "And the best part..." Another section is called,
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: "You'll thrive here if you..." Another section.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: and the final section is called,
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: "What's in it for you?"
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: because this is, yeah,
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: a narrative is kind of shaping up here a little bit.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the reasons why I was so excited about this particular job
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: ad for us today.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to read this mostly verbatim and break
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: it down into probably two parts because it's different from job
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: ads that we typically roast.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's not as formulaic.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: and it's quite short.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So here we go.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Full job description.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Employer will provide full sponsorship.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And for context, I'm pretty sure that this is an employment agency of some type that
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: has posted this job ad.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So even though we normally don't name and shame on the show,
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't actually know who the organization is that's hiring this person.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it says, employer will provide full sponsorship.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Prime Sydney location.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: then it lists a salary and some other financial things.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking to relocate to Sydney with sponsorship,
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: have a knack for sales and a love for financial markets,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: this could be a dream job for you.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is your launch pad into the world of stockbroking and investment advice.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking to relocate to Sydney,
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: have a knack for sales and a love for financial markets,
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: this could be the dream job for you.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: You'll work directly alongside senior brokers in a high energy,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: fast-paced environment, learning the craft from those who've mastered it.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Then we go into the first section, "from day one,"
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: you'll be... very short, four bullet points,
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: calling and engaging warm leads to build relationships and win clients.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Educating prospects about market opportunities and investment strategies.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: profiling potential clients and preparing them for high value meetings,
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: staying sharp on market trends,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: ASX performance, and global economic news.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And there's one more section I'm gonna read out before we pause to discuss.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Next section is, and the best part,
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: there's a crystal clear promotion path.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Once you've brought on 20 clients
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: and completed your RG146 certification,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: you'll step into an investment manager role,
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: running your own client book, executing trades,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: and giving strategic advice.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll break there.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: That was perhaps
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit more than we normally throw out before opening the discussion,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: but that was kind of the flow point.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Does anything stand out for you in this part?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly it's not quite as traditional as a lot of the job ads that we look at.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was interest... so on my end, whenever Paul's the host,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: because I haven't seen the job ad ahead of time,
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I almost have a notebook and this is this is what it looks like.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if anyone can read that,
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hehehe.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: but it's so... it's so terrible.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I take notes frantically and then
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can't read them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: but did you... did it have something that repeated?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you said the same thing twice,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: that was just how it was written.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was it was written, verbatim.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And for anybody who caught that in the live studio audience chat or at home,
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, we read these job ads out as they're written.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it sounds like we're a little bit derpy,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: if you know what I mean.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not the case.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: It it sounds like we're glitching.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: They put it in twice.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is interesting to me because this actually,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: like now that we've done this show,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can I think we're like heading towards 30 episodes or something like that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: this happens more often than you think.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it... it's
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: it's such a weird thing to me,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: but we're seeing it so often that people will just,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I guess not proofread properly or get in a rush,
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: or maybe they're just like
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: wanting to get it over with.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea,
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: but this happens a lot where there's something like that repeated.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: so I thought that that was interesting because it's just like
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: an easy thing to fix.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like just don't do that.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just for... just
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: proofread it before.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, a couple things.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it truly is... to me... a sales role.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: and I will be curious to hear whether or not the compensation includes some kind
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: of commission.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: like variable income type model because it is a sales role.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like it everything that you described.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: I like that it says that it's a launchpad into something because it's
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: not really pretending to be something it's not.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: However, to me it... that's not true when you talk about the title.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, the title says entry level stock broker.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what it says?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what this role is.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Entry level stock
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: broker.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what this role is.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very clearly a sales role with,
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: as they say, a launch pad into the entry-level stockbroker.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So just call it what it is.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that they're just trying to hook someone.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I get what they're doing.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Even how you said the title of the post,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: the job posting is different than the title,
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: like in the body, because it's like advertising this opportunity.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I get why they're doing that.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to market it that way.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: is it disingenuous?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: But also, again, can you blame them?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to get... they're trying to do something here.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: high energy, fast-paced.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't expect anything less in like the financial industry.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not a surprise to me.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then the best part section is that they have a clear promotion pathway
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: and then they actually say what it is.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've also seen in job ads so many times where they say,
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: like, you're gonna have so many opportunities and this is gonna change your career
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: and blah, blah, blah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: But they don't say how.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And some people might argue,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: well, we save that for the interview.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: But like, why not just say the this company managed to say it in a couple of
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: words in their job ad?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that could be really enticing for someone.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, they they give those like KPIs of what it means to get to that launch pad.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: so far though, it is a reading to me as someone who is is quite junior,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Entry level, and is able to just move their life to a different country.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, those are kind of my thoughts.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Curious to hear what stood out to you.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, those are great filtering points,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So... some background for this that stood out to me when I
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: was reading through this job ad,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: when I found it, was you're...
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree with you.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're right that this is, it's a persuasive piece.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is much closer to like an old school piece of ad copy than
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: it is a traditional job posting or job ad.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like they are trying to convince you that this is for you.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Behind that sits the...
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the probable fact that this is an employment or
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: a recruitment agency that has posted this.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: How are they getting paid?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: What's their incentive structure?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're getting paid...
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would almost be completely certain... they're getting paid based
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: on placing people into this organization.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So with that kind of context in mind,
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: you can start to think, all right.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's why this sounds more like an advertisement than it does a job ad
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: or a job posting where the company is hiring directly.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because these guys, I don't think they're getting paid unless they actually
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: put bums in seats or bums on an airplane,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: so to speak.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I found that part particularly interesting.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: The entry level thing,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, this is absolutely entry level.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're... we're not familiar here in Canada with the RG146 thing,
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: because that's just, you know,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: it's Australia's,
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's just Australia's term for "you are certified to sell securities", regulated
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: securities on an exchange.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're,
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: you're allowed to be a stockbroker.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're licensed.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a whole bunch of regulatory stuff that goes into
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's a similar structure here in Canada for certification
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: of individuals who are licensed to sell securities.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine that the two are probably really similar.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: know, the US has the same sort of structure,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: the UK, France, the Netherlands,
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: basically anywhere that there's a professionally run stock market,
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: there's a certification program and licensing program for people to sell on it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they're, saying here... flat out,
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know, you're going to join and you're going to do that educational pathway
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: to move towards that, to establish yourself.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time like will allow you to work,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: you know... you can do some stuff that you're allowed to do and
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: that's all cool, they're saying "start working and there's a pathway."
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: I found that really good.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Really positive.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're also saying on the topic of the promotional kind of pathway,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: spelling out exactly what it is that you need to do to get like promoted.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would have questions about what that promotion actually means
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: in practical terms.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Investment manager sounds like an organizational promotion where
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: you would be supervising staff,
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: maybe doing other stuff, but in this industry,
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: not really.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Investment managers, they're managing investments of clients.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like there isn't a whole lot of difference between an investment manager
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: and this kind of salesperson.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like certainly some investment managers
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: who have a pretty good book of business and they don't care to grow it,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: they focus on the analysis.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: They focus on the insights.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: They focus on the client service.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's cool for them.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I applaud them for writing out that pathway
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: for promotion, but we should recognize that it is also incredibly easy.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: to scale this model.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about a traditional promotional pathway
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: for staff that aren't directly tied to revenue in an organization,
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: they're not in sales, kind of gets challenging because how do you write
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: out ahead of time, okay, if you do these 10 things,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: we'll promote you to senior manager.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you do these 20, you're a director.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you do these 30, you're an associate VP.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't scale well if they're disconnected from revenue inside
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: the organization.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: But this role,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: where we're talking about sales people and this sales model,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: these folks, they can scale this model forever because they will know that this
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: person that brings in 20 clients,
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: their book of business, they're earning a certain margin off of that.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's sustainable.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like copy/paste,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: copy/paste, copy/paste.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: They could have 20 of these guys.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: They could have 50.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: They could have a hundred.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: They can go forever.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Say this person just crushes it.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine it's not that easy to get to that like 20 client number.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I doubt it.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine that there is actually some kind of timeline required
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: to get your certification.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: However,
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: if this person really crushes it,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: my concern would be then they're moving on to this other role.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: But are they really, are you gonna have to do both now?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's my question.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because are you actually gonna then go
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: and source another Toronto finance person to come in and start that
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: process all over again?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I to me the answer is likely not.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you might be getting this promotion when
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: you
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: hit those targets, but you're still gonna have to do those other things
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: in the meantime, because they can't just keep doing this over and over
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: and over again.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was my concern.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, you get your promotion but you
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: but your your workload is actually just
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it's increasing and you don't get to leave behind that sales
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: type position.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I see it.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just understanding from like role design and scalability,
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: like you mentioned, and sustainability.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like how does that actually work?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: They just keep like turning these salespeople
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: out.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, not likely.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's also interesting to me that you would
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: get someone from a different country to come in and play that sales role where that
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: person won't really have that inherent knowledge about that market,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: about entrepreneurship there.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: I work for a VC firm that
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: has entrepreneurs across North America,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: and there are a lot of differences between like
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: legislation and all sorts of things
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: between Canada and the United States.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is like a big learning curve.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting to me that they would have someone from Canada come
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: in to do such a specific thing,
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: sell to Australians, because maybe Australians like a Canadian accent.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but it's interesting to me that that's that's the role that they're
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: looking to fill versus
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, something else.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway,
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: lots of thoughts just on like such a
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: few, such few words.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I do agree with you that it is written more like
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: an ad-ad than a job description or job posting.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I also wonder if sponsorship means... what does it mean for like rent
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: and things like that?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's not spelled out super,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: super clearly at this point.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: My guess would be that this...
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: they're talking about their equivalent of employer sponsorship
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: for a visa.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: That would be my guess.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we do the same thing, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: For certain types of visas to come and work in Canada,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: we do the same thing.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely,
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: we do.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: You there's also the talk in the US of the H-1B visa.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: that's kind of been in the press and a little bit of a hot topic in
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: the past few months or whatever.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the same idea, you know, employer sponsored visas,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: that whole thing.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're also, I think,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: seeing some early hints so far in filtering,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because you mentioned it,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know, there are very strong signals that this is a pick up your life
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: and go to Australia kind of role,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Who's going to be able to do that?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very select group of people who are going to want to do that.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: very select group of people.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Typically,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: that's gonna skew younger, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to skew younger.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting somebody who's fresh out
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: of school or fresh out of whatever part of their life they're in,
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: they're looking to establish themselves.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be looking at stuff like this typically and being like,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: should I do it?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: let's think about this.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we're seeing some signs of filtering there,
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: which I find kind of fascinating because they're not blatant.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: They're woven throughout what they're saying.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: a part of the tapestry.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when you like maybe they're targeting someone who just
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: had a fresh breakup and the person is like,
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Do I get a haircut or do I move to Australia?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Hehehehehe
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what they're
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: looking for.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was, you know, it's funny, I was thinking that too,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: because we had another job ad that we roasted on another episode not too,
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: too long ago where it was,
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: it was the one about the Director of First Impressions.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they were filtering very clearly for somebody who was young,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: who was female, who was willing to work extra hours in an evening once a week,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: plus the odd weekend to do things here and there and everywhere.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the discussion came up like,
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: okay, well, this person doesn't have a family.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're not established yet.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: that's your typical kind of target for that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: But another part of that could be someone who is at the other end of their career
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: or partway through their career and they've had a breakup or they've
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: had some sort of tragic circumstance where their family ties have kind
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: of gone away and they're looking for a fresh start.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: This could also be for that kind of person,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: But this is this is interesting too because it's not like we're saying that
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: as a bad thing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it's a bad thing when you're targeting
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: like gender or whatever.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: But this is... ... yeah, 100%.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: part of designing a role, is understanding your ideal candidate.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you looking for?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then really speak their language.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you can do that if you know exactly the type of individual you're looking
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: for.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're not saying necessarily that it's bad that you would want someone
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: who doesn't maybe have a family and so they can work more hours
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: and you know dedicate themselves more.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: More to the organization.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: whatever.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is what it is.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: But you really need to take the time
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: and not just look about like the role design in your organization,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: but the individual, what are the characteristics and behaviours that
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: you think they need to be successful in this role and to drive your strategy
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: and your mission and vision forward?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Make up a persona and then write them a letter convincing them
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: to take this job.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then make your job ad from that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it sounds a
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: lot of work, but that's how you find,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: that's how you stop saying as an organization.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: There are no good candidates out there.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can't find anyone out there.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's because you're doing it wrong.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, there are things that you can do from
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: the organization's perspective to really focus in on the individual that you're
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: looking for.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's how you find each other.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: You lock eyes across the room and you're like,
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: "I'm moving to Australia."
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've said it before.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say it again.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: I will say it in the future.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: recruiting is marketing.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Recruiting is marketing.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you talk a lot about the ideal candidate profile,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: and that's a part of the process,
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Understanding who you're speaking to.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: In the marketing kind of world,
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: it's ideal client profile, or it's a customer persona.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: All good marketing campaigns,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: marketing strategies start from that point.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Understand your customer, understand your audience,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's a candidate or whether it's someone who's going to
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: buy something from you.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: You got to understand them.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's the very beginning of all this.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I just don't think that we see that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like again, we see so many job ads and they're just so...
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: stale and generic.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah, it is it is something that you can really fine-tune and then
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: get really good at.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you'd be surprised at the quality of candidates.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I agree, you get... if you blast out a generic job ad,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: you're gonna get a lot of generic applicants.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so much more work to sift through that and find what it
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: is that you're looking for instead of taking the time like right at
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: the beginning to do it the right way.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: Very much so.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move on to the back half of the job ad.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, this is a short job ad,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: but lots in it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the next heading or section is "you'll thrive here if you..."
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: then we've got five bullet points.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: First one, have sales or business development experience,
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: especially phone-based.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Love the buzz of hitting targets and closing deals.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Have a genuine interest in financial markets.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: communicate with confidence and credibility,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: are hungry for success and not afraid of the grind.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then the last section, we've got six bullet points,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: section's called "What's In It for you?"
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hands-on mentorship from experienced heads of desk,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: ongoing training and full RG146 support,
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: access to institutional grade research and exclusive market insights.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: exposure to both ASX and international markets,
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: prime Sydney office with harbourfront views,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: the thrill of building a career where your results speak for themselves.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then it goes to close off by saying,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: "If you want a job, look elsewhere.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you want a career in the markets,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: this is it."
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: This role is based in Sydney,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: so would require relocation with sponsorship,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: exclamation mark.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: work location in person.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna be in Sydney.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're like...
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: "remote."
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I, know, Australia, New Zealand is one of those regions where I actually find
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: it the most difficult to work remote with clients when I work with folks over there.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Cause the, the time difference is,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: it's awkward.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's awkward.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: From me,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like between 14 and 16 hours.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not so bad in kind of the business parts...
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: business centers of Asia where it's just straight 12,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know, your 9 a.m. is their 9 p.m.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: your 9 p.m. is their 9 a.m.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's manageable, but the 14 hour thing,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: the 16 hour thing is like, it's tough.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So what did you think about the back half?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: They packed a lot into a couple of sections there.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I... it's interesting to me that it said phone-based.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: that sales and BD, phone-based, for some reason were
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: We're roasting a lot of job ads that talk about phone type stuff,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: like the phones are making a comeback or something.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: but that's interesting me that that's very specific.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess it ties back
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: to the beginning of the job ad where if I recall correctly,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: you did say that there would be like cold calling maybe involved.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: it's gonna be a lot of that.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's like you need to have a certain disposition to
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: be able to just make cold calls.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And again, maybe that is why they want someone from Canada because
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: if they're hearing like an accent that's different,
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: they're maybe less
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: inclined to just straight up hang up the phone.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: but that's a... that's a tough thing.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I could never be
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: in sales.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have... one day we'll do an episode where we share some stories about
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: other jobs that we had before we found the ones that we were more suited to.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've had a couple of these like odd type of roles where I'm like,
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: this is not for me.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you need to be able to do that.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: what I found was
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting is the a lot of the word the descriptors that they were using,
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: they use the word thrill,
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: buzz, grind, it's very
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: aggressive wording, because it is a very aggressive industry
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: and an aggressive role.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: So again,
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: this is them, where... it's interesting to me that you're saying it's probably
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: a recruitment firm looking to fill, helping to fill this role because
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: in a sense they know what they're doing by using
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: Those that language.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're using language to try to entice someone.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're... the exclamation points throughout, and that kind of thing.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I find that to be really fascinating.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like the way that they've designed this and the approach that they're using.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, mentorship is great.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like again,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: they're showing what that means.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's really all I have to say about that.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And like no way it's in person.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: No in their living
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Every time that I read through parts of this job ad,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: just in my brain, Leo DiCaprio pops in,
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I was thinking, Wolf of Wall Street.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: the boiler room thing very early on in the movie,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: where he's on the phone, he's got his feet on the desk,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: the phone is there, he's tipped back,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: he's just talking sh*t. Absolute cack.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: to try and sell these equities.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I picture this being that,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know, this has much more of a veneer of being.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Ethical...
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: I guess is the way to put it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like more of a thing, It seems
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit more like... "we will follow the rules", because they do talk about like
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: the certification everything in there But I still picture like that young dude
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: hungry to make money.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Every time
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: they every time they make a sale like they ring the bell or something goofy like
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like.... you get a cocaine, and you get a cocaine,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Pfft.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: get a cocaine.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, I was thinking the same thing as you were reading it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question for you though.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how close to the end
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Mm.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: are you of this job ad?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I'm not seeing is, and I mean it's it's there,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's woven throughout the job ad somewhat the
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So let's
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: talk about what you're not seeing because that actually is the
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: end with the exception of the salary.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: okay, interesting.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: so this is where, when you're using a third party recruiter to design your
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: job ads, this is where I find there's a gap,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lack, and that is they just can't properly convey the culture.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like they've done
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: a good job making it seem like an exciting opportunity,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: but I don't know much.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: About the culture of that organization.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about mentorship.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there are some indications,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: but what what else is there?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's it gonna be like working there?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Again, like we have a, we can guess based on you know that environment,
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: but... or that sector.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: but interesting that that's it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that is 100 % the job ad.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it is... as telling, as you say,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: from what's missing, as
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: what's there.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that stood out to me is they're talking about
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: the heads of desk.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: That means that... if you transpose that
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: to an organizational structure that we'd be a little bit more familiar with,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: the head of desk is like a business unit owner.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you're talking like the director of a department sort of thing.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's a head of desk.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: You'll have a head of desk for
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: a particular financial market or a particular like hedge opportunity
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: or a particular pool of equity that's like special.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: These brokerages, tend to segment them that way.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the head of desk runs that whole thing.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got investment managers and brokers and analysts kind
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: of like sitting inside that structure.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they are talking a little bit about the heads of desk and they're saying hands
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: on mentorship from the head of desk.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's, that's actually kind of a thing.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you're starting
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: out your career very early on and the head of desk that is mentoring
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: you actually knows what they're doing and they've been around for a while,
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: that's a super valuable opportunity.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, something interesting though about that is,
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: and I don't know if they're doing this on purpose or if it's an oversight,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: to read through this job ad and truly understand kind of the value
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: of what they're proposing for you to start your career.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: you have to have kind of been in financial services already.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be familiar with these terms.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be familiar with these dynamics,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: with how financial services operations are structured and work with brokerages,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: how they're structured and work.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you don't have any exposure to that environment,
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: you're not going to understand what all this is about.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it could just be like,
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to go to Australia and it'll be great.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is a good point
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: because... did they talk about qualifications?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: There was something about something,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: but there's no like
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's really not a lot.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's really not a lot.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: they don't list out like we would expect in traditional job ads here
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: in North America.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: They don't list out like you must have a bachelor's in blah,
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: blah.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: You must have a number of years in blah,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: blah, blah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like the only qualifications that they really talk about
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: in this tapestry is... you must be a sales-oriented person.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: You must have interest in financial markets and kind of understand what that's
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: all about.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's really all they talk about.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing formal.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: which I found very interesting.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that suggests to me that they would consider someone who doesn't have
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: a post-secondary education, which I think is great.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say, like it it sounds like obviously then they're they're
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: not married to like having all of these specific qualifications.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I like when a
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: A company is savvy enough to understand that what this role entails
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: is grind and soft skills and a disposition and not so much like those
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: hard qualifications.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think more companies need to do that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think we get so stuck in...
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: "no, you have to have done this for like X amount of time
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: in this specific industry."
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like... people can learn.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're so adaptable and
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: we're so
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: fluid in what we are able to learn and learn quickly.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when we see job ads that say you need experience in this kind
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: of like software.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: okay, but
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone can learn any of these softwares in like less than a day.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So do you really need that?
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for someone?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Can you describe what that characteristic is in a different way and not
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: tie it to one like software system that your company just happens to use?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And, are you disqualifying people because they don't know how
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: to use that specific software?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's dumb.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna miss out.t
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: that brings me back to my all-time favourite...
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: You must be able to use the Microsoft Office Suite to be considered for this job.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you need to say we need someone who has a lot of patience with clunky
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: softwares.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah, I agree.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're about to head into what remains my favourite part
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: of every episode.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It is time, Jen, to guess the salary.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the salary is posted
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: The salary is posted
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: in Australian dollars, which is on parity with the Canadian dollar.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So basically the same thing.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's 98 cents to the dollar.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: it the same thing.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's an in-person job in Sydney,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: major metropolitan area.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Probably about the same size as,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: probably about the same size as Vancouver,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: like the greater Vancouver area,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know, like between one and two million people sort of live in there.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well-served by transportation and road access.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Cost of living is probably about the same as Toronto,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, so it wouldn't be too far off,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: which you know about Victoria for cost of living.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Entry level job.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: sales job.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: What do think it's worth?
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tongue-tied.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's too many factors.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's too many.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hate this enough as it is, but considering all that.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, thank you, that information is helpful.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: it does paint a bit of a picture.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna take a guess here.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: entry level sales role.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: maybe it does list some kind of commission.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: because that's tricky,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like base salary could be lower with a really high commission.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if we can you tell me whether or not it says any commission?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: So there is
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: performance-based incentives attached to the total package.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: like, yeah, don't worry about the performance-based stuff.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Neither of us would be able to guess that because it's dependent on performance.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: But the base though.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you're right that there's a base plus performance.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so my I'm gonna make it a bit of a like broad base here.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: I build this up because it makes me so uncomfortable.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna guess anywhere between AUD $90,000 and AUD $120,000
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: AUD $125,000... with my gut telling me maybe AUD $110,000.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: AUD $125,000... with my gut telling me maybe AUD $110,000.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's a guess.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's a guess.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Am I too generous or am I... what is it?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: the base salary that they have listed is $55,000 Australian dollars per year.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: But then they say "On Target Earnings",
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: $250,000 Australian dollars per year.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: So your OTE... it's gonna involve your sales performance.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as always with this, like the devil is in the details.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So they're saying you can earn between AUD $55,000 and AUD $250,000.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a floor of 55K,
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: you're gonna earn that.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully you can pay your rent with it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: You probably can though, you're going to be eating ramen noodles,
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: I would suspect.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: bullsh*t. Like that's... what did you say?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: AUD $55,000?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Did you say AUD $55,000?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: who... who's uprooting their life and going to Australia
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: for a AUD $55,000 sales role?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is bonkers.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's another filtering point,
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: because the question is,
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: who indeed would do that for AUD $55,000 guaranteed?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Someone who just had a bad breakup.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it wants to start over.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting I'm really... interesting to hear what
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: viewers and listeners what what they would have thought that salary would be.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: and I think the reason why I skewed it to be so high is because it's in Sydney,
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Australia.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you think about the location and the cost of living,
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: and it's in-office.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you were to live outside of the city to save some costs,
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: you're still commuting.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you take that into consideration as well.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't...
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it be like that there.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that that's wild.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's a really low,
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: really, really low salary.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that... my...
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: putting on my as*hole capitalist hat....
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that that base salary choice is intentional
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: to create structural incentives for the person in this role to be hungry
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: to close deals, right?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: As*hole capitalist hat.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: That would be my guess of why it's set at what it's set.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Also mitigates risk.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that salary is too low.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Personally, I think you need to pay at the very least a living wage
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: in the area where you're requiring the person to work from.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: ... yes.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: ... you know,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: that's equitable.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: For our international audiences, because I looked at
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: the data this morning and we have international listeners now.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Australian dollars to US dollars.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the range we're talking about is USD $38,000 USD $175,000.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thirty eight thousand US?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: ?
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: In Great Britain, that works out to about £29,000
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: to £130,000... if you hit your OTE earnings.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And for the folks in the European Union,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: 34,000 € per year to 153,000 € per year is the ranges that we're talking
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: about 153,
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: if you hit all your performance based stuff and you you earn your full OTE.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I always
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: find that interesting because, that full OTE thing,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: here and you can make as much as,
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: and I think they say like two hundred and fifty thousand,
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: but what does that mean?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: To get that, yes, you have to be hungry and all of those things,
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: but... what does that look like for your life?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really interesting.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is why I hate the salary guessing...
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: because...
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's happening.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so a really good contextual point,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Dez, who's in our studio audience,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: just brought up that in Sydney,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Australia, the median asking rents are AUD $800 per week for
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: a house and AUD $750 per week for a unit in an apartment.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: So call it AUD $3,000 per month for an apartment.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's about Vancouver.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's fairly high.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're earning $55,000 per
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: per year and your taxes on that take away,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: let's say 20%, I don't know what taxes are like in Australia.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Say you're left with AUD $44,000 per year and you're spending AUD $3,000
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: a month on your rent... you're not in a great spot because that's AUD $36,000.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: That means you gotta make your life work.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everything else on what, 8,000 bucks?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: If I do the math in my head, that's not a lot of cash to live on.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: you'd best be a very, very good closer if you're gonna make this work.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge consideration.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna go into the intermission.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Jen's gonna shut off her camera and read through the job ad.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: We'll come back afterwards and do the job scoring.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: For the folks who are in the studio audience,
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I posted in the chat a link to a poll where you can also submit your scores.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: and we will include the average score of what you guys thought this was
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: all about in the wrap up to the show.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: So Jen, see you later.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, Jen.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm back.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: I still can't see a poll,
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe it's because I'm not supposed to,
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: You are not supposed to see the poll.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: That is not what we're doing with this.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: fixated on
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: that.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, I'm back.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: you basically read it all verbatim,
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: so there wasn't much new, but it's good to kind of get...
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have some notes
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: and got my thoughts in order.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so then thinking about the job ad as it was written,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: what would you score that out of 10?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so surprisingly, I'm actually giving it a seven out of ten because
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that they did a really good job trying to achieve their mission,
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that is to like hype up the job and make it seem really exciting.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's like mission accomplished,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: they've done that.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're selling though...
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: the question is what are they selling and what are they hyping?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really emotion.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to hook someone on the emotions of this job.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: so is it yeah,
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: what is the reality of what this job is going to be like?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's also like they lost points for it's a life-changing opportunity,
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: but we don't know the name of the organization.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna uproot and change your life for this mystery opportunity,
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: which, yes, will get clearer once you get through to the interview.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: but still.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, I don't...
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was interesting,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: exciting.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: They lost points because of there there are a few pieces missing there.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I did.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: I gave it a seven out of ten for that one because I think that they
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: knew what they wanted to get out of.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: the job ad and they did a good job conveying that message.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking about the role design,
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: this could be a little bit tough because we were light on details there,
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: but same question.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: What would you score the role design out of 10?
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that one I went with a six.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: They got a lot of points from me for talking about the career pathway
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: and explaining what that looks like.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: That almost never happens.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to give them points for that,
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: keeping in mind the bar is low.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: there's a lot of code for "you will work really,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: really hard."
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they lost a ton of points for the salary,
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: which is just wildly inappropriate to me.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Their closer at the end is like,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: if you want a job, don't apply.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you want a career, blah blah blah.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of a... slap-you-in-the-face kind of like,
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: whoa, this is it.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is my opportunity to get into... to become a stockbroker.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this just shows that they kind of know what they're doing
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: and they're trying to reach a certain audience where that kind of language
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: is gonna be like so cool, right?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: but at the same
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: time, like a career to me also includes the conditions in the environment
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: to support your success.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I don't know that that is going to happen at this type of organization.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: So those are my scores.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: As usual, I was not too far off,
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: but before we talk about what I scored,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: audience scores.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the average audience score for
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: the job ad writing was a seven,
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: and the average audience score for the role design
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: was 6.2, 6.3.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, not far off.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: we're kind of converging around the median on this one.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I was in the same ballpark.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: I actually rated the job ad, how it was written and structured
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: and everything a little bit higher I gave it an eight I thought it
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: was really good.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: One thing that I often find is missing from job ads
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: is a narrative and a tapestry and what I found particularly appealing
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: and good about this job ad was that they wrote that narrative very, very well
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: and they very subtly, very passively included their filtering points inside the ad
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: the job ad.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now maybe it wasn't intentional,
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: maybe it just kind of was a byproduct of the the normal financial services bravado
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: that we talked about a little bit,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: but I found the use of filtering that wasn't super obvious,
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: very effective and appealing.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: I quite liked that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I gave them a lot of credit for that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely docked points because there were things missing,
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know, they didn't talk about anything other than just the
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: the base compensation and the salary.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that they included that?
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Cool,
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: great.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's a requirement or not in Australia to do that.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: Not sure if there's pay transparency laws over there,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: but they didn't include anything about culture.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were saying, they didn't have any inclusion and inclusivity statements.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have accessibility statements.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe they're counting on this being like a very typical...
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: and then it's a heavily-coded job ad,
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: which I think kind of reflects the industry to a certain extent.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're counting on that kind of established reality,
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: making it unnecessary, but you should still do it,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Especially if it's required by law,
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: which I'd be shocked if there weren't requirements to that effect in Australia.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, maybe this is a grey zone.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they were like...
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: We won't worry about this because we're posting this job ad in Canada
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: and it's an Australian company,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: which regulator is going to go after who,
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: What's up here?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: might be some of that going on where they felt like he's get away with
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: not really crossing the T's and dotting the I's.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, fairly good score on this one.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: The role design five, five,
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to rate it better because from a management model,
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I see how they've designed this, and it is kind of an industry thing...
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: I see how they've designed this so that they can cookie cutter this role.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually do think that they would have some sort
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: of ongoing recruitment process for this role.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And they just have a strategy of always be recruiting and always be posting
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: job ads like this in major financial centers.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be shocked if there were similar posts from similar
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: job agencies for this organization that turned up in London.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: that turned up in Amsterdam, that turned up in New York,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: that turned up in the other financial hubs of the world.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't shock me at all because with this,
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: you can really build a model where it's like,
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: yep, if you hit your 20, we can scale this up from our perspective
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: to the infinite because we're covering our overhead.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to worry about it.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to rate them better because I like that model design,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: but they're not paying a living wage.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: That is blatantly obvious.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: They are not paying a living wage.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: So structurally what that means is they're going to have,
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think, quite a bit of turnover in this role.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you want to create hungry salespeople who will go out
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: and do the things to close the deals.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: I get that instinct, but it's counterproductive because your costs
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: of bringing people over on sponsorship,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: paying that AUD $55,000 base.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: doing the training, doing the mentoring,
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: supporting them through their certification process
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: and paying the recruiter.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to add up.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I would actually look at this as an opportunity for them.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, you know what?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: Scale back on the volume of people that you're bringing
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: into this program a little bit.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Be more selective, be more choosy,
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: pay a living wage.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Your retention on that is going to pay back dividends
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: to you because you won't have all of this leak.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: out of your organization, all of this capital leak from turnover.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, five out of 10 for me for the role design.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: also say too like if they for the cost of what it would be to pay a recruiter
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: for... like, this work you can get tickets to Toronto
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: fly over there, hang out in the financial district, go to some bars, start talking
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: to people and be like... "hey
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: you wanna you wanna move to Australia?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll sponsor you."
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm actually serious about that.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like boots on the ground, go in,
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: talk to people and start having those conversations.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think that would be a winning approach for them.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: and they could even maybe start to build a reputation for that.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how they are known to recruit their people and people will like
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: start to look for them in that way.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: so that's, yeah.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Doing a road show, yeah, doing a road show would probably cost you less.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: it wouldn't be like the bars in the financial district that you'd want
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: to hang out at, to do this.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: I would be talking to lecturers at some
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: of the pre-eminent universities that have econ programs,
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: master finance programs as well,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: build relationships with them and be like,
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we want to fly one of our head of desk over to talk about
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: how the markets work.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: can you organize a guest lecture for us and,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: you know, we'll pay for everything and maybe we'll make like a token donation
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: to your, to your department, association or whatever,
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: whatever kind of charitable thing that the university would have going on.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll do that.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd take that approach because then you're going
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: to get people who are fresh.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're super interested in the topic,
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: the content, right?
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: Financial markets.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you're probably also going to get young folks who are like,
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I'm going to do after graduation.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: no, I agree.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good call.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: and Des in our live audience mentioned the cost of round trip flights.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: so typically recruiters will take about
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: 20% of the first year's salary cost,
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: So when I said it's probably cheaper to go to Toronto and source yourself.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: With a salary like fifty-five thousand dollars,
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: maybe that's not true.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know,
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it is cheaper to be for the recruiter.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: if you're doing this roadshow program where... and
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: the cost that the audience pulled out is about CAD $2,500... round trip, give
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: or take with the exchange.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: So your cost to do that for just one person.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't make financial sense.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're recruiting, say,
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: 10 people, and you're not paying the recruiter commission on 10 people,
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: but your round trip flight is 2,500 bucks and maybe your hotel for a week
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: to hit a couple of campuses, Toronto,
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Montreal, Ottawa, you could probably do in the same week.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Your cost for travel and hotel for that is another 2,500 bucks,
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: five grand.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're able to bring in more than two people into this program,
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: you're ahead financially, and you're probably building long-term relationships too.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're building your pipeline.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: So those are some tips for the job posters
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: who are totally listening to this and are like... yeah,
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because why wouldn't they listen?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Great idea.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: We don't scare them off with the name of the show, "Roast the Post"
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Good one.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Very good one.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we can consider this one roasted.