Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Judith Collins: Defence Minister and Attorney-General on the directive around race in prosecution and the finding of the Manawanui's navigation book

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Judith Collins: Defence Minister and Attorney-General on the directive around race in prosecution and the finding of the Manawanui's navigation book · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The NATO Defense Minister's meeting has been held in Brussels
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: amid ongoing global tensions the Middle East, Europe. Where isn't
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: it happening? Frankly? Earlier this week, China held military drills
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: that completely surrounded Taiwan, just a few weeks after the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: hmnz Alte was sailed through the Taiwan straight. Ukraine's President
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Zezelenski is set to be at the meeting today. Judith
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Collins is our Defense Minister and she's with us live
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: from Brussels. Minister, Welcome to the show. Oh hi Ryan,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: great to have you here. Minister, tell me I understand
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: you've been meeting with the US Secretory of Defense Lloyd Austin,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: You've been meeting with the Secretary General of NATO. What
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: are you being told? What is the key thing New
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Zealand needs to know about from your meetings?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: So we've had a meeting as well of the all
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: of the defense ministers and what's called the IP four
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: and that's ourselves, Australia, Japan, and South Korea Republic of Korea.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: We're all hearing the same thing that what happened in Europe,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: what happens in Ukraine? Actually matters in the Indo Pacific
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: region and what happens in the end the Pacific is
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  Speaker 2: being noted and matters to Europe as well as NATO generally.
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  Speaker 2: So what we're hearing is everything's interconnected. I think many
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: of us know that, but it's being noted that the
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: world is quite a different place than it was a
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  Speaker 2: few years ago.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Would do you think that NATO's an organization that could
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: ever expand furtherest South?
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Well, no one's talking about that, and certainly on their rules,
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  Speaker 2: anybody knew joining NATO would have to come from Europe,
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  Speaker 2: and so I don't think that's the point. But the
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  Speaker 2: fact is that the IP four has been invited. This
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  Speaker 2: is our very first time as defense ministers for the
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  Speaker 2: End of Pacific four to be invited to the NATO
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  Speaker 2: discussions and be invited to NATO Defense Ministers meeting. What
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  Speaker 2: I'm really hearing is because we always know New Zealm
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  Speaker 2: knows that what happens in Europe's important to us, but
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  Speaker 2: it's good to hear the Europeans and the members of NATO,
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  Speaker 2: Canada and US, as well as Europeans and Turkey actually
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  Speaker 2: saying it matters to them too. What happens in the
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Pacific and the end of the Pacific region.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: They's talk about with your with your Attorney General hat
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  Speaker 1: On from a moment, just if I could, Minister, the
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  Speaker 1: Solicitor General says that you need to think carefully about
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  Speaker 1: a particular decision, decision where a person is mildly This
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: has obviously been an issue that's been bubbling away here
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  Speaker 1: in New Zealand. David Seymour's had something to say about it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: What do you have to say about it?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm really clear on this. The law needs to
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  Speaker 2: be blind as the people's ethnicity or who they are.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm very much of the view that these are
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  Speaker 2: these Solicitor General's prosecution guidelines. They're certainly not rules, they're guidelines.
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  Speaker 2: But actually I did not write a forward to them,
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  Speaker 2: as most attorneys have been the past, and I do
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  Speaker 2: not agree that people should be treated differently based on
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: their ethnicity. It's simply not in my understanding that is
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  Speaker 2: what we should have. We have the rule of law
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  Speaker 2: that need that means that everyone is subject to the
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  Speaker 2: same law.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Has the Solicited General, in your view, overstepped their independence.
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  Speaker 2: Well, Sister General is independent in relation to individual cases,
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  Speaker 2: but we've had it. Obviously, this is this is different
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  Speaker 2: because of the way it's words. I think it has
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  Speaker 2: led people to believe that mari or will be treated
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  Speaker 2: differently when it comes to prosecution decisions. My view is
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  Speaker 2: that all prosecution decisions should be carefully thought about because
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: it's not just about whether or not someone can be prosecuted.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: It should they be prosecuted in those circumstances. And we
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  Speaker 2: know that that's something that's that's standards. But based on
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: ethnesty No, yeah.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: So will the solicit will anything change or is there
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  Speaker 1: nothing actually you can do?
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Well? There is, there's are the Sister generals. I think
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  Speaker 2: that she is looking at the fact that there has
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: been an overwhelming backlash from the public, but that's something
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  Speaker 2: that she needs to come to herself. I'm very clear
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: myself that the law must not discriminate based on ethnesty.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Sarma. The navigation records of the manamon Nue have apparently
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: been found by a British warship. Have you been briefed
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  Speaker 1: on that and what else are they finding?
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  Speaker 2: No, I've seen that there has been some very good
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  Speaker 2: information has been found by the HMS TMMA which was
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  Speaker 2: in the area and for the you know, obviously to
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: see what they could do to help. That will no
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: doubt be going through defense. It will be part of
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  Speaker 2: the investigation, which is a court of inquiry set up
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: under the Armed Forces Discipline Act, so no doubt be
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: part of that.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Do you have any update on the size of any
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: oil leaks.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's very little that we can say
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: about oil leaks in terms of not so much that
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: more diesel, and even then it seems to be relatively small.
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  Speaker 2: There are a couple of leaks understand that have been
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  Speaker 2: stopped and that the main work now is going on
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  Speaker 2: to remove the containers, but also to see what else
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  Speaker 2: can be done in terms of a removal of the
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: fuel that is remaining those big tanks. Certainly, everything I've
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  Speaker 2: seen and been told is that although it's always very
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: concerning and we certainly don't want something happening and it's
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  Speaker 2: a massive leak or anything like that, so far it's
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  Speaker 2: not nearly as bad as we thought it might have
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  Speaker 2: been at the start.
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  Speaker 1: Just coming back to NATO for a second, and obviously
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  Speaker 1: we're not a part of NATAP before, but bottomy Zelensky
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  Speaker 1: has made it very clear that part of his victory
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  Speaker 1: plan is being part of NATO is being a member
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  Speaker 1: of NATO, and you can understand the reluctance from some
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  Speaker 1: countries within it to that. But I mean, is that
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  Speaker 1: what victory means for Ukraine.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know, you'd have to ask him. My concern
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  Speaker 2: is is that Ukraine has been illegally and immorally invaded
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  Speaker 2: by Russia. It has caused immense misery to the people.
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  Speaker 2: Ukraine did nothing to deserve that, and I'm just really
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  Speaker 2: pleased that New Zealand has both the previous government and
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  Speaker 2: ours stepped up and done what we can to assist Ukraine.
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  Speaker 2: And I think it's you know, the international rules based
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  Speaker 2: order is very important for smaller nations. We can't possibly
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  Speaker 2: defend ourselves by ourselves and we need people to fit
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  Speaker 2: their own borders.
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  Speaker 1: Judith Collins, we really appreciate your time this morning thing.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining us the Defense Minister
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Judith Collins live in Brussels, NATO. For more from Early
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live to News Talks. It'd
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: be from five am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.