Latest / Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews / Why Alexander Pappas Came Back to Church Music

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Why Alexander Pappas Came Back to Church Music · Crosswalk Talk: Celebrity Christian Interviews

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
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  Speaker 2: Hey Alexander, thanks for joining me.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Incredible to be here. Thank you my friend Alexander Pappasa,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: who has a new EP.
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  Speaker 2: It's called Sunday. Alexander. Of course, you are a founding
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  Speaker 2: member of the Grammy nominated group Hillsong, Young and Free,
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  Speaker 2: known for many songs that you've written or co written,
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  Speaker 2: including A Live Wake, Real Love Echo, one of my
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  Speaker 2: favorite songs of all time, a great Awakening, you know how.
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  Speaker 2: But a new solo project, of course, tell me the
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  Speaker 2: heart behind this EP, Sunday.
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  Speaker 1: And why did you name it Sunday. Yeah, that's a
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  Speaker 1: good question, and yeah, I mean it really does kind
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  Speaker 1: of start with a little bit of a rewind for me.
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  Speaker 1: As you said, I was a part of Hillsong Young
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  Speaker 1: and Free and making church music with my best friends,
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  Speaker 1: and then there came a time that I wanted to
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  Speaker 1: create some music, you know, on my own, and what
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  Speaker 1: was at that time a side project, and it was
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  Speaker 1: it was Jesus music, but it was what I referred
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  Speaker 1: to as Monday music. It wasn't for church, it wasn't
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  Speaker 1: to be sung in church. It was it was to
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  Speaker 1: minister to people's Mondays, as I referred to it. And
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  Speaker 1: then I sort of went through some personal life stuff
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  Speaker 1: as well as my church is no secret, went through
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  Speaker 1: a number of things as well, you know, and I
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  Speaker 1: won't get too into the details, but yeah, feeling like
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  Speaker 1: I was like, maybe maybe I'm done with ministry, or
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  Speaker 1: maybe ministry is done with me. Maybe yeah, I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: and navigating navigating that emotionally and spiritually, which yeah, led
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  Speaker 1: to a place of feeling very specifically the Lord being like, no,
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  Speaker 1: it's this is what I called you to do. This
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  Speaker 1: is what I made you to do. And I I
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  Speaker 1: could go even deeper in my story of this is
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  Speaker 1: kind of even from sixteen years old, of people people
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  Speaker 1: speaking over me ministry while I was personally, you know,
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  Speaker 1: not entirely like, oh, I don't know. I want to
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  Speaker 1: do ministry, but I don't know if music ministry is
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  Speaker 1: my calling. All that to say this tide, the title
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  Speaker 1: of this project is Sunday as much for me as
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  Speaker 1: it has become for everybody else in what I've figured
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  Speaker 1: out the value and importance of Sunday. And so you know,
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  Speaker 1: this was my re entry, if you will, back into man,
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  Speaker 1: I really feel called to making songs for the church.
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  Speaker 1: And while going through this you know, it's no secret
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  Speaker 1: as well that the world sort of at moments feels
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  Speaker 1: like a bleak place. The Gospel of Jesus isn't necessarily
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  Speaker 1: a popular thing to talk about. We all talk about
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  Speaker 1: spirituality in God, but shy away from the truth of
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  Speaker 1: who Jesus Christ is. And so feeling really inspired and
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  Speaker 1: encourage that there's a great move of God on the way,
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  Speaker 1: and so it makes a songwriter in someone in ministry
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  Speaker 1: like myself, with well, if there's a great move of God,
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  Speaker 1: what part can I play in all of this or
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  Speaker 1: any of this? And you know, if Sundays exist to equip,
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  Speaker 1: empower and stretch the saints, then I pray to write
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  Speaker 1: songs that would do exactly that. I'd pray that I
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  Speaker 1: might write songs that not only equip them on a Sunday,
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  Speaker 1: but they can be a tool for people the other
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  Speaker 1: six days of the week. And so there's no song
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  Speaker 1: called Sunday on this except these are songs to be
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  Speaker 1: that equipping source for people seven days a week.
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  Speaker 2: I like what you use an illustration on your social media.
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  Speaker 2: You said you compare the importance of Sunday to the
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  Speaker 2: importance of training in a gym or you know, training
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  Speaker 2: for a basketball team, so on and so forth. Explain
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  Speaker 2: what you mean by that and the parallel there and
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  Speaker 2: why why are Sunday is so important to the Body
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  Speaker 2: of Christ.
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  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think if anyone's been serving in church
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  Speaker 1: or been in church, or especially worship leaders, there's this
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  Speaker 1: nuance of work. Every believer is called to live a
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  Speaker 1: lifestyle of worship. Right, this is the end all, This
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  Speaker 1: is the thing, This is the thing that we're striving for.
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  Speaker 1: Right And as someone who leads songs, I know that
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  Speaker 1: the singing portion is only only one fraction, one small
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  Speaker 1: fraction of what it is to have a actual lifestyle
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  Speaker 1: of worship. And so you wrestle with this, is this enough?
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  Speaker 2: What are we doing?
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  Speaker 1: And is it enough? And I think the revelation I
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  Speaker 1: have today, and I think anybody who's walked with Jesus
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  Speaker 1: as well, who's listening to this, knows that at certain
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  Speaker 1: stages of your maturity with Jesus, you'll look back and
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  Speaker 1: be like, I feel like I didn't know anything. I
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  Speaker 1: thought I knew everything two years ago, and now I
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  Speaker 1: feel like I knew nothing then. And then I think
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  Speaker 1: that's the beauty of it is. There's so much more
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  Speaker 1: of Jesus that we find, And so I don't say that.
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  Speaker 1: And if you've anyone else has experienced that, don't be
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  Speaker 1: hard on yourself. That's the beauty of Jesus. There's so
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  Speaker 1: much more of them defied. But I feel like I'm
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  Speaker 1: operating in this man like revelation of new of the
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  Speaker 1: point of Sundays, like I said briefly, is too equipped
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  Speaker 1: and power and stretch the same point. But more than that,
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  Speaker 1: I consider like I go deeper. Like you know those
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  Speaker 1: moments in worship when you know a worship leader invites
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  Speaker 1: you to respond, Hey, sing your song in your own way.
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  Speaker 1: If you're a little bit of the more Pentecostal ilk perhaps,
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  Speaker 1: and if you're not, that's okay too. But you know
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  Speaker 1: these motion what's the point of all these? And I've
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  Speaker 1: come to believe it's practice. I've come to this revelation
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  Speaker 1: that when conditions are perfect, when the air conditioning is good,
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  Speaker 1: your children are in the childcare program, and for an
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  Speaker 1: hour and thirty minutes you have set aside time to
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  Speaker 1: be with Jesus. As I was saying, I've come to
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  Speaker 1: this place of yes, first and foremost that twenty minutes,
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  Speaker 1: however much time you have of corporate worship in a service.
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  Speaker 1: While first and foremost it is to give God glory
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  Speaker 1: that he so deserves, it is also God doesn't need
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  Speaker 1: his glory is unchanged by our praise and worship. It
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  Speaker 1: really is. If we sank or didn't sing, his glory
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  Speaker 1: would remain the same. You know, talks about how even
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  Speaker 1: the angels that encircle his throne, every time they go
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  Speaker 1: around and see his face once again, they're overwhelmed by
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  Speaker 1: his glory, by his majesty. And while he doesn't need it,
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  Speaker 1: we do. We actually desperately need that connection. We actually
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  Speaker 1: desperately need to be changed by the presence of God.
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  Speaker 1: We desperately need to be people who are who live
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  Speaker 1: in this right response, this David Like lifestyle of worship,
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  Speaker 1: right response of man after God's own heart, for example.
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  Speaker 1: And so these moments, like I've said, I consider them
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  Speaker 1: practice because then when things actually get tough, right when
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  Speaker 1: you get a bad report, when you get something at work,
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  Speaker 1: when you get a bad doctor's doctor's report, when something's
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  Speaker 1: going on with your kids, I just go thank God
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  Speaker 1: for the moments that we actually practiced worship, the moments
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  Speaker 1: that we actually practiced responding rightly, and so to some extent,
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  Speaker 1: I would say these Sundays that these moments in worship
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  Speaker 1: are like strength training. They are like a physical therapist
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  Speaker 1: and you know, sinking your teeth into songs. It could
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  Speaker 1: be songs, it can be devotionals, whatever you want it
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  Speaker 1: to be, to actually be that physical therapist, to actually
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  Speaker 1: get ready for the big game and my life personally.
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  Speaker 1: I say this as not as a hypothetical or like
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  Speaker 1: or you know, but there's a song on this project
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  Speaker 1: called It is So Sweet, and that song is truly
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  Speaker 1: about the actual, you know, exercise of real life usage
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  Speaker 1: of I won't do this alone. I will this moment
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  Speaker 1: that my part rate is out of control, that my
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  Speaker 1: mind is flooding with thoughts of being overwhelmed. I'm actually
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  Speaker 1: going to choose to walk with Jesus in this. I'm
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  Speaker 1: gonna end this moment of elevated heart rate and losing control.
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to say, Jesus, I need you in this.
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  Speaker 1: I want to walk with you in this. And every
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  Speaker 1: single time I've experienced him show up just in that moment,
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  Speaker 1: my heart rate calm down, rational sense coming back in,
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  Speaker 1: because his yoke is easy, but his burden is light,
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  Speaker 1: meaning the burden is still going to be there. The
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  Speaker 1: burden is still going to be there as soon as
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  Speaker 1: we put on the yoke, but it's much easier. And
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  Speaker 1: so I pray you that songs on this project would
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  Speaker 1: minister to moments such as that.
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  Speaker 2: I got a multi multi part question, I guess coase
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  Speaker 2: for you. I was wondering to take me back at
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  Speaker 2: the beginning of when you sensed a calling into worship
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  Speaker 2: music or you know, making music for the Lord? Did
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  Speaker 2: it parallel your participation with Hillsong, Young and Free? At
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  Speaker 2: what part did those intersect?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? So I was a I grew up in a
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  Speaker 1: small town in Idaho. I don't know if any of
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  Speaker 1: you's ever heard of Idaho, but it's really it's really nice.
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  Speaker 1: And I wound up in Sydney, Australia to study at
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  Speaker 1: Hillsong's College. And as that was finishing, I felt this
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  Speaker 1: strong poll that I was meant to stay in Australia,
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  Speaker 1: and twenty twenty one year old me goes Hellsong's got
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  Speaker 1: a ton of great worship leaders. In what world do
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  Speaker 1: they need a kid? What is God calling me a
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  Speaker 1: kid from Idaho to stay? I actually will never forget
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  Speaker 1: I received this word by so many people who wouldn't
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  Speaker 1: have known the internal wrestle that was going on of like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I feel like God leading me to stay, but I
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  Speaker 1: don't know why. I have all these dreams of my
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  Speaker 1: own and desires, and the word that I received, and
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  Speaker 1: I do believe this word is for everybody is You'll
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  Speaker 1: never come second by putting God first, and any major
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  Speaker 1: decision that I have ever felt, I'm at a crossroads
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  Speaker 1: and feeling like, well, I can honor God and put
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  Speaker 1: him first in this path, and I can honor God
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  Speaker 1: and put him first in this path, and as long
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  Speaker 1: as I'm it's as long as I'm putting him first, anyone,
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  Speaker 1: I can't lose whichever way I choose. And uh, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I felt I felt called to stay. I felt called
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  Speaker 1: to do that, and in doing so, I prayed this
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  Speaker 1: prayer to God. I said, Lord, I've got these dreams
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  Speaker 1: to write songs and would love to travel the world
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  Speaker 1: and get to play them. And should that not be
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  Speaker 1: your will for me? Like Lord, I truly die to self,
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  Speaker 1: like I lay them down before you. I'm not kidding that.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't days later that I got invited. It's little
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  Speaker 1: but I got invited to play base on a like
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  Speaker 1: college tour to India. Right, it was the farthest thing
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  Speaker 1: from glamorous, but it was just that, you know, that
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  Speaker 1: confirmation from the Lord. He's like, hey, I care, I
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  Speaker 1: care about your dreams too, And so I made a
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  Speaker 1: commitment to stay. I got a job as a youth
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  Speaker 1: creative pastor, and then it wasn't it wasn't weeks later
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  Speaker 1: that you know this the dream from our leadership for
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  Speaker 1: Young and Free to start came to be. And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: in that position, I sort of just started writing songs
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  Speaker 1: thinking at the time in truth, I thought I would
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: play bass in the band. So even the first I so,
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  Speaker 1: we had written the song Alive, which kind of ended
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  Speaker 1: up being the re catalyst for what Young and Free was.
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  Speaker 1: We had a we had a couple other songs in
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  Speaker 1: the bank that I always say they sounded like United hillsong,
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  Speaker 1: United b Sides, you know, and I had like, you know,
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  Speaker 1: in a harsh way on us, but it's like you
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  Speaker 1: when you grow up on something, you you imitate, You
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  Speaker 1: imitate the things that influenced you. And so that you know,
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  Speaker 1: that's what we were doing. And then Alive really like
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  Speaker 1: clicked us into like this is who we are, but
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  Speaker 1: we probably showed people the week of the recording. It
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  Speaker 1: was like we were recording on a Friday night and
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  Speaker 1: we set the demo off on like a Monday. And yeah, truly,
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  Speaker 1: at that point, I was like, I would be thrilled
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  Speaker 1: if this new ministry, like I got to play basin
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  Speaker 1: Like that would be that would be sick, that would
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  Speaker 1: be like, that would be God answering my prayer. You know,
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  Speaker 1: truly is like I'm writing songs and traveling like to
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  Speaker 1: play music. This is this is the dream. And it
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  Speaker 1: literally like that like Thursday or Friday. I was like, no, no,
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  Speaker 1: You're gonna sing it. And it was just like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: like God, you are the above and beyond God that
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  Speaker 1: I've heard about and not to say in the last
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  Speaker 1: whatever fifteen years that hasn't you know, hasn't had its
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  Speaker 1: mountains and its valleys within it. But yeah, there was
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  Speaker 1: kind of just this intersection of trusting God and knowing
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  Speaker 1: that he knows best.
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  Speaker 2: So when we hear I'm asking you this question because
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  Speaker 2: a lot of these groups that have you know, five
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  Speaker 2: or ten members, we don't really know who's singing unless
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  Speaker 2: we're watching it on video, so on tracks like a
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  Speaker 2: live in real love. Is that your voice?
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  Speaker 1: That is?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's your voice? Okay, Well what is it like
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  Speaker 2: for you to cause those are really popular songs that
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  Speaker 2: are played, goodness everywhere in the world. What is it
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  Speaker 2: like for you to go somewhere and hear that song
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  Speaker 2: being played? What was it like the first time?
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  Speaker 1: I mean it's I would truly say it's as humbling
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  Speaker 1: today as it was then. There are endlessly good songs
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  Speaker 1: being written by people who are better than me, or
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  Speaker 1: you know, better than me musically, or better than me
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  Speaker 1: Jesus wise, I don't know, but I've never not humbled truly,
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  Speaker 1: And that sounds a little like I'm fluffing a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm just so just so humbled that people
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  Speaker 1: resonate with the songs. And as long as I'm doing this,
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  Speaker 1: my number one goal is it's even you know, rewinding
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  Speaker 1: to this project being called on that I felt the
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  Speaker 1: urge to, you know, emphasize that while this was birthed
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  Speaker 1: out of something I felt called back into, this project
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  Speaker 1: was written. Every time I write it's for the men,
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  Speaker 1: I pray that this just ministers to somebody And you
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  Speaker 1: can't you can't write songs thinking about I hope the
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  Speaker 1: whole globe is going to sing this song, like I
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  Speaker 1: just got to think about, like, man, how would this,
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  Speaker 1: how would this minister to me? How would this minister
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  Speaker 1: the person that is walking through this? And I mean
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  Speaker 1: that including these high energy praise songs, and a number
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  Speaker 1: of these songs were written even then out of like
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  Speaker 1: I don't really like feel like praising or I don't
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  Speaker 1: really feel like There's another song specifically, there was a
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  Speaker 1: young and free song called level let Me Down, and
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  Speaker 1: it was written because I said to my co writer,
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  Speaker 1: my collaborator, I feel unbelievably let down by God at
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  Speaker 1: the moment, and he goes, well, let's write that song.
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  Speaker 1: And he's the producer, and I'm like trying to write
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  Speaker 1: a sad song. I'm on the piano or trying to
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  Speaker 1: write the saddest like, you know, just like a faith statement,
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  Speaker 1: and he's like writing dance beats. I'm like, what are
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: you doing, dude? But I say all that to say
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  Speaker 1: is is you know these were written out of places
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  Speaker 1: like even I don't even fully believe it, but I'm
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  Speaker 1: gonna sing it until I do. And so that's that's
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  Speaker 1: been my philosophy kind of ever since, to write songs
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  Speaker 1: that would whether you believe it at the moment, but
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  Speaker 1: you know it to be true, something that you'll sing
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  Speaker 1: it until you believe it. You know.
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  Speaker 2: I'm a this is kind of a funny story. I'm
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  Speaker 2: a volunteer DJ for my kids Hi high school private
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  Speaker 2: school basketball team, and so we play some of these songs,
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  Speaker 2: you know, at half time and during during a timeouts
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  Speaker 2: and whatever.
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  Speaker 1: So those songs are used everywhere, not even in the
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  Speaker 1: not even in church, but everywhere in the world. Do
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  Speaker 1: you still have a heart for hyenergy music or I mean,
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  Speaker 1: have your taste changed as you have grown? Do you
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: know what? If anybody listening to this podcast appreciates this,
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  Speaker 1: there is there is there's something in the church world
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  Speaker 1: that is the up tempo song is quote unquote like
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  Speaker 1: the have a go for the young worship leader, right
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  Speaker 1: like in many like models of leadership of bringing somebody through,
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of like, well, we'll trust you with the
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  Speaker 1: fast song. And I think to some extent, a lot
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  Speaker 1: of churches, and I don't mean this critically, but creaked
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  Speaker 1: you know, the fast song as a warm up, right,
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  Speaker 1: they treat it as that and I've probably lived much
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  Speaker 1: of my you know, young adult life believing I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: oh yeah, like I want to leave the lead the
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  Speaker 1: fast song, but I want people to like get that
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  Speaker 1: I'm deep. I want people to get that I've like
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  Speaker 1: I've got I've got range, like I can I can
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  Speaker 1: sing this song too. And to answer your question, I
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  Speaker 1: have felt in years previously, much like I talked about,
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  Speaker 1: you know, this physical therapist like strength training thing. Man,
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  Speaker 1: I believe in the power of of praise as well
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  Speaker 1: as such an unbelievable strength training tool in that man,
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  Speaker 1: if I can't praise, you know, so many times through
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  Speaker 1: scripture it speaks of praise, not a quiet, soft, internal
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  Speaker 1: reflective response to God, which is a beautiful thing as well,
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  Speaker 1: But breakthrough so often is used with the word of praise,
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  Speaker 1: an outword, outspoken, this physical response to God. And I
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  Speaker 1: just pray. I'm like, I pray that I have not
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  Speaker 1: diminished the power of praise. And so I feel more
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  Speaker 1: than ever that I believe in the eye energy song.
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  Speaker 1: I believe that that unlocks so much more joy, so
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  Speaker 1: much more freedom. And yeah, I feel like until I'm
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  Speaker 1: ninety years old, I intend to be praising. I intend
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  Speaker 1: to be dancing. I intend to offer something to the
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  Speaker 1: Lord that is not just internal for me, but something
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  Speaker 1: that is physical, that is outward for him.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you've been you you wrote many of those
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  Speaker 2: songs years ago, but in recent years you've been involved
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  Speaker 2: in Lakewood Music. They have some Hypergi stuff and you
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  Speaker 2: wrote I think you're a co writer of Echo as well.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: I mentioned that earlier with Elevation Worship and Torn Well,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: so that you haven't You're still writing songs like that,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: is what I'm trying to say here. I guess if
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: this is if your musical career is like pots on
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: a stove, it seems like you have lots of lots
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: of pots on the stove right now. You're involved in
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Lakewood Music, you have solo project. How many things are
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: you involved in right now?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean high activity would be myself, Lakewood Music,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: those guys, in short, they have been really good friends
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of mine for about twelve years. They used to come
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: out to our conferences in Australia or New York and
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: and have become real lifelong buds. So getting to be
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: involved and making music with them has been awesome. And
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: then my home church is still Hillsong church, and so
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: we've been doing We've just kind of started making Hillsong
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: worship songs again. We released five songs I think in
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: February or something. There's one there's one more high energy
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: prey song in there too, called good News. But yeah,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: those would be my irons in the fire right now.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: I was writing for other artists and it's a real,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: a real blessing to get to make music all the time.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Let's circle back to the.
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: New EP, which is Sunday and when people listening to
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: the podcast it will have been released. Alexander, what do
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: you what do you hope people take away from someday
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: when they're listening to it? Do you what do you
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: hope people are thinking about us they listen to it?
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Well? I put the the project together in many ways
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: like a I would put together a church set list,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So if you listen to it, it kind of has
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: that sort of flow. And Yeah, to expand on the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: things I I already said, you know, I pray that
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: it would be an encouragement and equipping in a stretching
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: tool for them. I think there are things in the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: song and messages within the songs that I just I
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: really pray that those specific messages would would land the
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: people I've already talked about. I pray people grasp that
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Jesus is available to walk with them every day. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: I think one of the big takeaways there's a song
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: on this project called Always Been Jesus, and this came
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: out of a revelation of what started with the story
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: of Abraham and Isaac. The very first time the word
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: that we use for worship is used in the Bible
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: is in this story, is when God calls Abraham to
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: sacrifice his son. It's not the first time worship occurs
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: in scripture, but it's the first time that this specific yes,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: not the first time worship itself had occurred, this word
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: for worship, excuse me. And so it's this story of
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: a father sacrificing his son and there being a substitute,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: there being We know how it ends, we know there
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: was a ram in the thicket. But what struck me
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: so deeply is seeing the parallel of that, the very
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: thing that this thing that God that Jesus calls us
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to do to worship, to live this lifestyle of worship,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: like I said, is is something that he is not
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: a God in heaven demanding this worship. Like I said before,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: he is His glory is unchanged by us singing the song,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: but we are changed. We need it. It is for
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: his glory, but it is for our gain. And but
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: this very first thing that you do would be foreshadowed
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: by the very thing he would do for us, That
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: he would send his own son as a sacrifice for it,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: that you would take our place, this act of worship,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the weird call is is the thing that he would
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: do for us first. And so I say that to
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: be he is such a good God. The plan has
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: always been Jesus. The plan will always be Jesus. And
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: there's this line in the song that says, it's not
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: just the red letters that speak, You're in the whole thing,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: meaning it's not just the red letters where we see Jesus.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: We see Jesus throughout the entire book. We see these
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: foreshadowing moments. We see the beauty of scripture, we see
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the beauty of Jesus. And so I just pray that
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: there is a deeper revelation of who Jesus is. And
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: I pray that there is a deeper trust in who
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Jesus is, that he is even better than we thought
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he was.
• 22:40
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• 22:42
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• 22:45
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• 22:48
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• 22:54
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• 22:58
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