Latest / Vigilante Vibes Podcast / Ep. 218. Gary Jones of Divergent Comics

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Ep. 218. Gary Jones of Divergent Comics · Vigilante Vibes Podcast

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Hello to all the comic fans, Marvel geeks, and all the nerds
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in between. Welcome to another episode of
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the Vigilante Vibes Podcast where we talk all things Marvel
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without the toxicity that's taken up way too much space in
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each and every fandom. I'm your host, Megan Nicole, and
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today I'm so very pleased to introduce a very special guest.
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Today I'm joined by the genius behind Divergent Comics, the
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number one nerd on the Internet that you should absolutely be
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following, and one of the best people I know.
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Please welcome Gary Jones. Honestly, Megan, that was very
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kind of you to say. The number one nerd of the
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Internet. It's true, I don't lie.
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I think I would save that title for some, someone else probably,
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I don't know, maybe Justin. I'll probably put that on
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Justin. I think he makes that pressure.
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Look, he's a cool guy. He is.
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He's also one of the best nerds on the Internet.
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But me and you have been a one since day one.
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Like it's been years now. It has been Yeah Dave, literally
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one of the first podcasts I met when I joined Threads.
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So. Yeah, that was, it really was
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years ago, wasn't it? And we've just been times and
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we've just both been thriving and doing our thing and we
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haven't changed. That is true, yeah.
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So what many people do not know about Gary is that he is
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actually a comic book creator. And I got the, I forgot the
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word. I got the pleasure of actually
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reviewing one of his, which was the Charger, which was
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fantastic. And I still want to see that
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world continue really, really bad.
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But the best thing is that you're coming out with a new
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comic. Why don't you tell us about it?
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Yeah. So before I do that, I have to.
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I'm glad you brought up the charger because I still have to
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get you that physical book. I don't know what happened where
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we had a whole snafu with UPS or was it USPS?
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It was one of those mailed. I don't know, but that happens
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like a lot to me so and I even moved out of state and it's
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still happening, so it's not me. But the new book that I'm coming
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out with is part of the same universe as the Charger.
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This is the first story I actually started working on when
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I first started making comics and it's called Nighthawk.
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And Nighthawk is a 24 page crime thriller about fraternal twins
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who are investigating human trafficking ring that's been
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going on in the city of Lakeland.
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Needless to say, this was written many years before I've
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seen in all this stuff was really discussed.
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So there was there was a lot of thought put into this prior to
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this. But yeah, it's just funny how it
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all kind of like goes full circle.
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It was very meant to be in that timing.
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Like at least this one I want to read about, the other one,
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absolutely not. But this one, I'm I'm fully into
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it. So it's about fraternal twins.
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So those are the main characters.
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I don't want to like spoil too much, but like, that makes me
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very excited. Yeah, so one of the things that
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I wanted to do when I first like started making comics, I wanted
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to do something that wasn't commonly seen, which is the
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whole purpose behind Divergent Comics.
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And so when I was first come up with these characters,
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specifically Jerry and Kayla, the people that I were that was
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like communicating with at the time were really, really big
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nerds, like having reading comics for 20 plus years type of
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nerds. And so when I was coming up with
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the back story for these characters, I was like, well,
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what if I did this? And I told him about having the
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fraternal twins working together.
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And it was like, you know, I've actually never seen that in
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comics before. So I was like that.
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So the the characters are the character of Kayla is actually
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kind of based off of my one of my younger sisters, whose name
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is also Kayla. Yeah.
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And so I figure, like, how can I put my family in these stories
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in some way? And so you all met Charger, who
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is based off of my baby sister. So now you get to meet my my
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second youngest sister. And so, yeah.
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How many sisters do you have? I have two younger sisters,
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yeah. So I guess after this, no more
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female characters ever. Yeah, well, no more family
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members at least for sure. Wow, that sounds really great.
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Like I love that you try to think out-of-the-box because a
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lot of people when they go into making comics are like, what is
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it I like? What if?
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What do I like in the comics? What would I want to recreate?
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But you make it its own thing in its own universe, which I cannot
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even fathom doing. Like naming a child is enough.
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I could not. But like a whole universe is
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just bananas to me. There's numerous notebooks that
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I have just filled up with notes, outlines, drafts and
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things like that. And I have to buy more because
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of this. But yeah, it is not fun
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sometimes. But there's a days where like
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I'm working on a story or I'm outlining a character and it's
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just like something breaks and it's just like I get so excited.
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So like when I was first breaking this story for
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Nighthawk, thinking about how I wanted the the story to go with
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the introduction, because if you followed my comics, most of them
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are origin stories. Nighthawk is very different from
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that. Nighthawk starts six months
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after he's already been a vigilante.
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OK, so it's not a coming of age story.
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Exactly. And I, it's actually my favorite
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story for that reason, because that's my favorite way to
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actually tell stories is to kind of start in the middle, other
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story go forward. So I'm, I'm really excited about
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that aspect of it. Wow, I that I like that a lot.
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I usually like that a lot too because it leaves so much room
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for like, flashbacks. Someday we'll get to your origin
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story. Just keep the people guessing.
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That's exactly how I plan on it going.
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I've planned. This is actually the only story
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I've planned like all the way through from beginning to end,
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including the one shots and all that stuff Like this is what I
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mean when I say like this is the one story I've loved throughout
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this whole process of making comics.
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So I'm, I'm really excited for this story to come out.
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Oh wow, So when writing thing, well, when writing the charger,
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was there any kind of different feelings you got when you finish
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that at versus when you finish Nighthawk like any like how you
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felt? Yeah.
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So when I finished Charger, that was more of a OK, I think I'm
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finally understanding this writing thing.
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Whereas when I finished Nighthawk, it was more of a OK,
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I think I'm finally, I think I'm finally happy with where it's at
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to send it to an artist. Because I started writing comics
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back in 2018 and the Charger was one of the first ones that I
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actually finished the story for. But Nighthawk was the first
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story actually developed and fully fleshed out, and so it
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wasn't until 2023 I rewrote Nighthawk like 5 times before I
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finally was like, OK, this story is where I wanted to be.
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And so I feel I felt very comfortable with not only just
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the pacing, but with the dialogue, the character
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development, things of that nature.
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And so this story, to me, I feel like is the most complete story
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that I've written up to this point.
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OK, so it was the most satisfied.
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You've been finishing a story. Very, very.
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I haven't felt this good about writing a story since, honestly.
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Yeah. What are you smiling too?
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I love this story so much I I I'm trying my best not to really
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spoil it. Yeah, I'm trying to go around
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that too, but it's so hard because it's like I just.
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There's so much I want to say about it, but I there's.
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Too much I want to know. I will I will say, 'cause I gave
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you the 1st 11 pages of the the story, you can ask me anything
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about those first 11 pages 'cause that is virtually
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unspoiler. Yes, everything after that is
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gets very spoilery. It's hard because I want to
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because after, you know, I went through the charger, I was like,
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OK, like that. That was pretty damn good.
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And then I read the first 11 pages and I was like, shit,
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something hang on. He he's cooking here and I want
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to know a lot about it, but I don't want to give away anything
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because it's like, I don't know. I want everyone have like a full
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experience. But it it's very hard because
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usually comic creators like they either send you the whole comic
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so you could talk to them or they send you nothing and you
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try to get it. So I've never really had someone
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send me like some of it. It's I like the way I like your
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style. I like the way you do it.
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So what I did notice was that I feel like in this one, the art
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matched the tone a lot more pristinely.
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The the last one, I'm not saying it didn't, but I am saying that
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how do I say it? I think the art had its own mind
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in the charger. They meshed very, very well
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together. But this one feels a lot more
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aligned with comic. Can you speak a little on that?
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Yeah, I agree. That's also part of the reason
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why it took so long, because if I had it my way, it would have
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the way that I would have released my books would have
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been Nighthawk, then it would have been Brontide, then
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Imperium, which is the next book that's going to come out in
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2027. Imperium.
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Yes. Oh my God.
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And then is it would have been Lionheart and then Charger
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because the way that I want the stories to unfold, they all are
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going to tie in together eventually in some way.
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But the hard part about it all is just like finding the right
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artist. And with the Charger, I agree
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the the art was good and I think it looked really nice, but it
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definitely didn't like fully fit the story for the character just
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because I wanted the at least the way that I've pictured the
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story of Charger would be a little bit more.
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I would, I guess I would say like greedy realist, OK, greedy
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realism of a story. And the thing that fits for
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Nighthawk is the fact that it's because it's so based in a real
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world situation. The hyper animated aspect of it
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kind of tones down the the dark and gritty tone that I was going
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for a night out. So it balances everything out.
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OK, so you want a more of a street level vibe?
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Yeah, yeah, I I love St. level type characters.
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Those are my favorites. I love them and they're somehow
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so underrated because it's, you know, the Superman of it all.
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The. I forgot every hero I've ever
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known about just then, but I do love the art so much more in
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this one. It feels like it.
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They genuinely intertwine very very well.
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And how I cannot imagine how hard it is to find an artist and
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pick out the art because I like you said, you have something in
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your head but you can't really put it out there.
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So do you just try to find the thing that's closest to it?
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Or do you think maybe this will work better and I'm seeing it
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from a different perspective? So the, the hard part is finding
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that balance. And so most of the time as
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creators, we have so much, I guess best way to put is like
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control issues that we want to have control over every aspect
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of it. And I think to some degree that
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plays into my my issues. I'm going to therapy over for
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sure, but knowing that I have that much control over crafting
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the story has helped me to realize that if I find the right
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artist that can like take what I've written and enhance it,
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it'll help make the story better.
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And so with the Charger, I know like the artist that I work with
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for them, they were really good at enhancing certain aspects.
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So like specifically the original cover where you have
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Layla with the lightning shooting out and the different
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aspects of the story playing out in each of those little
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lightning bolts. Like to me, I felt like that was
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a really good example of how the artist was truly like taking
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their own vision of what I was trying to say and putting it on
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page. So it's answer the question.
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It's kind of multi fold or it's kind of multi layered in the
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sense of like finding the right artist to get your vision, but
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also knowing that sometimes what you're wanting or your vision
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for the art needs to be altered a little bit so that the true
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story can come out in the pages. All right, Yeah, that's fair.
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Like I said, I could never do any of this because like any of
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that, like like like I have something in my head and it's
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like, why do people not get it? So I think that would be really,
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really hard. But I can see because this is
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your baby. You made this from nothing and
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it's like you want it perfect. And I think you genuinely, from
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what I've seen, you genuinely do have that with Nighthawk because
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it does feel this does feel like a piece of you in the comic.
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I appreciate it because it has truly been a a long process.
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Actually, the project started at the end of 2024, so it's been
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over a year just trying to work on fine tuning everything.
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But yeah, if I, I don't think I've ever said this about any of
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my projects when I was releasing it, but Nighthawk is definitely
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my baby. Like this is the one I have the
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most pride and joy over, and this is the one I want the most
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caretaking of. So it definitely means a lot to
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know that the way that I explained the story to the
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artists in a way the artist was putting things together came out
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in a way that worked for you as a reader.
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So that's good to know. It definitely did.
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And I do think you really, really have a banger on your
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hands because it's I'm very excited to see the rest.
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Like I read it and I forgot that you only sent me a certain
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number of pages. And then I got to the end.
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I was like, what the hell? You start to remember.
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Like I did it to myself. Snap.
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Yeah, so this is the second interview I've done and the last
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person that interviewed me said the exact same thing.
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And they were like. I was like, well, that makes me
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feel a lot better because I was worried because as I was looking
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through it, you know, I'm probably my hardest critic.
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Yeah. No one could ever say anything
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worse to me than I would say to myself.
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Yeah. And so I'm looking and I'm like,
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I don't know, I don't think this is flowing as well as I wanted
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to. Or, you know, I think this
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dialogue probably is a little weird, but like hearing you and
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then hearing other people say, you know, actually like this,
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maybe want to get the rest of the book.
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It's like, OK, well, that's good to know.
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So now I just got to wait for the last couple of pages to to
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be finished and I'll put everything together.
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And my plan is to hopefully get a book printed and get a couple
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of books printed and sent your way and so many other people
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that I've interacted with so y'all can can read it early.
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I would you don't have to, but like I would really like that.
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Well, I'm a fan of your podcast. I'm a fan of Nerd Initiative.
17:08
So like that was it was a no brainer.
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And of course, we're going to be reviewing it because you got to
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keep up with tradition. Yeah.
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So I feel like there's so many things that people don't know
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about the writing process. Like the other day, I don't know
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why I thought of it, but I was like, what if I was a writer and
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I was reading a comic and I thought I came up with an idea
17:31
myself, but I just forgot I read it.
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Have you ever had that? Like you were like Google and
17:37
say, has this happened before? Did I make this up or did I read
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it somewhere? Like anything like that?
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Happens all the time. So the way that I try to pitch
17:48
Nighthawk is it's Nightwing meets Daredevil.
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And the reason for that is because those are two of my
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favorite characters in Marvel and DC.
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I love Daredevil for very different reasons, and I love
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Nightwing. Nightwing was the very first
18:01
superhero I ever really got into.
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It's funny because I I grew up watching Batman animated series.
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The only reason I love Nightwing is because I saw him in a Teen
18:12
Titans episode and I was like, he looks so cool.
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Like I need to know more. And so that kind of became a
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little bit of my personality. But then I've loved Daredevil.
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It's funny, I never watched the movie up until prior to the
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first season of the Netflix series, but I really love like
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the character of Daredevil. Whenever I would play Marvel
18:37
Ultimate Alliance, I loved him in that.
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Yeah. And so I actually, when I
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finally got into make like reading comics and and
18:44
everything, I started reading a bunch of Daredevil comics.
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That's some of Marvel's best writing, All of it.
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Honestly, I feel like there hasn't been a bad Daredevil
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comic. I feel like there hasn't.
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I don't think I like I've read some that are like somewhat
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lackluster or it just wasn't for me.
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Like we had a review on the if you guys don't know, on nerd
19:10
initiative. Me and Matt from hops geeks news
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have a Daredevil podcast called Man Without fear Mondays and we
19:16
reviewed 1 not last week, the week before.
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That was not bad by any means. I think someone would really dig
19:23
it, but it was very, very light hearted and I was like, I'm
19:28
looking for trauma. I want to feel bad after it and
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I it wasn't bad. But yeah, Daredevil does not
19:38
have a bad comic because it's like it's all so authentic to
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Daredevil in some way. And the thing that I think that
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really hits the most with Daredevil is the thing that I
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tried to take from Daredevil and put in a Nighthawk.
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And that's that trauma. Yes, my hope, if I can continue
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to make comics, even if I don't make any other comic, I want to
20:02
at least continue to make Nighthawk so that I can finish
20:05
his story because of the trauma that I'm going to put him
20:08
through. There was a post on threads, I
20:12
think it was like either last week or a couple of days ago,
20:16
where it was like people think that you put in your characters
20:20
through trauma means that you don't like your characters.
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And I was like, no, I love my characters because I put them
20:27
through so much trauma. I want them to grow and and.
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You know they can handle it. This is character building.
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Yeah, yeah, there it is. I love that's character building
20:39
and then world building are two of my favorite things to do when
20:47
it comes to writing. World building, I guess, since
20:52
it's something I can't wrap my head around because you're quite
20:54
literally creating an entire world from nothing.
20:59
And like, that doesn't sound like anything crazy because it's
21:02
just a story. But it's like if you think of
21:04
things like Game of Thrones that came from nothing, and now with
21:08
Nighthawk it's just building on a whole world.
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It's just crazy to me. And this is really only the the
21:16
tip of the iceberg. Yeah.
21:18
The the things that I have planned and the way that I'm
21:24
hoping things can work out, crossing fingers.
21:28
But yeah, I mean, I, I applaud anyone who's able to world
21:33
build. I don't think I'm the best at
21:35
world building. I enjoy it.
21:36
I think it's fun. But people like George RR
21:39
Martin, the way he built the Game of Thrones universe, insane
21:44
and. Then stopped, but it's.
21:49
Yeah, he's living his best life now.
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He's never going to finish that. It's, I don't know, it makes me
21:56
so. It makes me laugh so hard when
21:58
he talks about it. He's like, I don't know, I might
22:00
finish it before I die. I'm like, you're the biggest
22:02
troll in the world. And I love it so much, so very.
22:06
This is exactly what you will not do to us.
22:09
Oh yeah, definitely not. I definitely won't.
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If I, if I don't do anything else in my life, if nothing else
22:18
ever comes to fruition, I will at least finish good, this
22:23
world, this universe, because I do have it fully planned out on
22:26
how it's going to end. But just hopefully we can get
22:29
there. So without, oh, I hit my desk.
22:31
So without, I don't know. I don't know if it gives away
22:35
anything, but you say you know how it ends.
22:37
Do you have a timeline? Like how long do you want this
22:40
to go on? Yes, so each character is going
22:45
to have 4 volumes. Wow.
22:50
Yeah, each volume is going to be 12 issues long and then there
22:55
will be four or five crossovers or events for the universe.
23:03
Yeah. And will you have like annuals
23:06
or any random wouldn't one shots thrown in there?
23:09
I know you said you'd have some planned, but will you?
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Are you able to add more later if you wanted or is it all
23:15
completely sealed? So, yeah, so the, the original
23:20
plan when I was coming up with this universe was each character
23:24
is going to have 12 issues and then in between those 12 issues
23:28
or midway through those 12 issues would be a one shot for
23:33
each character to have a story specifically told about
23:37
something in their universe. So not really giving too much
23:41
away, but specifically with the Charger, there's going to be a
23:45
story, A1 shot story that was going to focus on one of the
23:48
characters that you meet in this first issue that was going to
23:53
kind of like be a how did they get to the point that they're in
24:02
type of situation. OK.
24:04
And that's something that's more so like shown in like issues
24:07
4:00 and 5:00 that I have planned out.
24:09
Like I've fully outlined their entire first story art for
24:14
Charger to the point where I could write every script right
24:17
now and it'd be ready to go to an artist in the next couple of
24:20
months. That's how far I've gotten with
24:23
Charger. I think I've gotten that far
24:26
with all of my characters other than Nighthawk, where I've
24:29
gotten the entire 4 volumes planned out and lightly
24:34
outlined. Yeah.
24:36
So do you sleep or? I do sleep now, but I don't
24:43
sleep a lot so that kind of balances out.
24:48
So is your mind just always going all the time on this or do
24:51
you ever just kind of like, I don't know, just wanted to like,
24:55
OK, I don't want to think about it tonight.
24:58
I just want to just, I just want to watch TVI want to watch Game
25:01
of Thrones knowing I'll never know how it ends.
25:03
That's it. Sometimes, yeah, my girlfriend,
25:08
she forces me to take a step, step back and not work.
25:12
But one of the things that I learned as I truly decided I
25:16
wanted to be a writer was that no matter what I do, something's
25:20
going to trigger a thought. And so for example, when I was
25:27
watching was it was a wonder man, I think is what it was.
25:31
I had some some ideas pop up for the character of Imperium that's
25:35
going to come out next year. And I was like, OK, I gotta find
25:42
a way to put this into this story.
25:46
Yeah. So I'm always taking ideas and
25:48
stuff and like tweaking it so it works for how I want to write
25:52
and how I want my characters to be.
25:55
Wow, I imagine it's just like the job is never done because
25:59
there's infinite amount of ideas and characters, things you can
26:03
do with it. I think that what would make me
26:06
anxious that you just it's never done.
26:10
Yeah, that's why I gave myself like a a rule.
26:14
I can't, I can't go further than the four volumes and then I'm
26:22
refusing hardline stop. I am not doing time travel And
26:27
well, let me rephrase that. Let me rephrase that.
26:29
I'm not doing time travel in the sense of I'm not going to have
26:32
multiverses. Oh, thank God, because I don't
26:36
want to have to like go down these what ifs and things like
26:39
that. My my universe is like, there
26:41
will be some time travel in it, but it the way is going to work,
26:47
it's not going to cause any branches of timelines or
26:49
anything like that. It's just going to be about
26:51
specifically building out the world and building the
26:54
characters from where they're at at that point, dealing with past
26:59
trauma. So that's going to be fun.
27:01
That's good 'cause there are some some comics, some events.
27:08
Yeah. Some Age of Revelation events,
27:13
X-Men that's focus an entire thing, entire event on time
27:18
travel and the they're like, I don't know why it's selling
27:21
well, buddies, because we all know you're gonna go back in
27:23
time and nothing's it. Nothing's gonna happen.
27:27
Yeah, that's one of the things I loved about 'cause I I got into
27:32
Marvel kind of late. I didn't start reading comics
27:35
until until I had graduated high school, OK.
27:38
And so the first comics I started reading was DC, and then
27:43
it was like a year later when I started reading Marvel, and the
27:49
first comics I picked up was Daredevil, obviously.
27:52
Obviously. Yeah, and then I started reading
27:55
like Avengers, which was really good.
27:59
And then I picked up the Marvel Unlimited app and got the
28:02
subscription for a year and just went crazy.
28:08
I started reading a bunch of Fantastic Four and X-Men.
28:10
And at that point, I think I needed, I think I needed a
28:15
therapist because of that was I was going down rabbit holes.
28:22
Yeah, no, I I do it every freaking day.
28:26
I'll just go and go. I'm like, you know, I haven't
28:29
done like shit today. Yeah, it's so addicting, 'cause
28:34
you're just, you're so enamored and you're so probably pushing
28:37
yourself into this world, and then when you like, you know,
28:39
come back to the real world, you're like, well, this one
28:42
sucks. Yeah, like take me back to that
28:44
one. Yeah, so the real question here
28:47
is, and I think you may know it's coming, you may not.
28:52
Who would win, Daredevil or Nightwing?
28:59
I didn't inspect that question, OK.
29:07
Are we talking Daredevil before or after he was taken by the
29:14
Hand? Let's say before.
29:19
Then I will go with Nightwing. I I'd probably agree.
29:25
Yeah, Nightwing probably has the better ass too.
29:27
So what can? We will never know on that one
29:30
though. I will.
29:34
So I, I love that you do take so much inspiration from these
29:39
amazing characters, but you don't actually like use the
29:43
inspiration. Like I wouldn't read your comic
29:46
and say, oh, that feels like Daredevil, That feels like
29:48
Nightwing. It's just more your own
29:50
inspiration in your own head. And I really like that because
29:54
there's a lot of comics out there that God bless them, you
29:57
can see it. You can see where it's like, oh,
30:02
that's Professor Xavier. Oh, that's Magneto.
30:05
You know what I mean? And that's what I really
30:08
appreciate about yours because they feel so fresh, so new that
30:10
like, and everything's been done before.
30:13
And then I read your comics and I was like, oh, maybe not.
30:16
Maybe things that haven't been done before.
30:19
I appreciate that because when I was writing, like, I mean, you
30:23
read all of Charger. When I was writing Charger, a
30:27
lot of my inspiration for Charger came from when I was
30:31
reading was, I was reading, I had read static.
30:38
I was reading static. OK.
30:41
And so a lot of how specifically how her powers work, I gained
30:47
inspiration from static. Personality wise I would I feel
30:54
like she would be very similar to Black Canary in some in some
31:02
sense. I could see Black Canary.
31:06
Yeah, yeah, You see, like I read Charger, I reviewed Charger, I
31:12
talked about Charger and I never, I said never saw that
31:15
inspiration. It just felt fresh.
31:17
I like how you're able to put your ideas out there.
31:21
And it's, I don't want to say the word fresh again.
31:24
Oh my guess, but it feels different.
31:27
It feels brand new, something that no one's doing.
31:31
And I read a whole lot of comics, so I could tell you
31:33
honestly, like, no one's doing it.
31:35
Yeah, you read. You read definitely way more
31:37
comics than I do. I try to, I try to keep up with
31:40
you, but I don't think I could keep up with.
31:42
You don't. Just don't.
31:43
It's so tiring now. I get tired when I read and it's
31:47
like aging. So great, so good.
31:52
But I mean, I think you have an excuse since you're actually
31:54
making the damn comic. I'm.
31:57
Trying. I'm trying.
32:00
So you mentioned your girlfriend makes you have a hard stop,
32:04
gives you a break in life, which is a really good girlfriend by
32:07
the way. She is.
32:08
She's great. So do you ever bounce your ideas
32:11
off her? Does she give you ideas?
32:13
Like is it ever a collab kind of thing?
32:15
Or she like you know what? Just do you.
32:18
So I guess I have to tell this story and I don't know if she's
32:20
going to be upset about it or not.
32:22
But if she is, I could take it out.
32:26
But the very first book I wrote and produced was Brian Tide, and
32:32
that character I didn't like. That was when I first was like
32:36
making comics. I didn't have any idea of how
32:40
comics were supposed to be done at the end of my nature.
32:42
So I was just like, this is a cool story, I want to write it.
32:47
And so I wrote it and I produced it and by the time it got
32:51
published is when her and I got together and she read it.
32:57
And to this day she's still upset with me because I left it
32:59
off on a cliffhanger. So I try to bounce some ideas
33:07
off of her to like get an idea because she doesn't read comics,
33:12
she is mostly an anime fan. So with her being more of a
33:18
casual type of consumer, I'm like if I can get her attention
33:22
on something. Especially since she's a really
33:24
hard critic too. She doesn't like a lot of stuff.
33:27
It it means I could at least get somebody like someone's going to
33:31
like it. So when I was bouncing ideas for
33:37
how I'm planning on doing this this universe and the different
33:40
stories I have planned out and telling her about the ideas and
33:43
things like that. She she liked a lot of it, but I
33:45
don't go into too much detail because she she gets upset if I
33:49
spoil anything. I think that's cute.
33:54
Like, I know you're supposed to be your own tough worst critic,
33:56
but like the fact that you're living with the person that
34:00
that's also a tough critic, you're on your toes.
34:03
It does it. It forces me to truly think
34:05
out-of-the-box because if it's something that she feels like
34:08
it's either too cliche or something that just happens or
34:12
that she feels like is done too much, she'll tell me and I'll be
34:16
like, OK, I can see why you would say that.
34:18
And then it forces me to be like, OK, well how can I either
34:21
keep this idea and make it different or what are some other
34:24
ideas I can come up with? Well that's really cool.
34:31
I I don't know what I expected. I thought she would be like,
34:36
don't tell me a single thing. I don't want to know anything,
34:38
you know what I mean? Like because that's how I would
34:40
be. I was like, just just just
34:42
surprise me. But that's really cool that
34:44
there's a little collab going on between you 2 and she doesn't
34:47
even read comics, but she reads your comics.
34:49
She does, yes. That makes me feel good.
34:51
That's. So nice.
34:55
So if you could describe Nighthawk in just three words,
35:00
what would it be? Stubborn is the first word.
35:04
That was when I was creating him.
35:06
I knew that had to be one thing because I just, when, when you
35:11
read Daredevil, that's how I feel.
35:12
Matt murder comes off. He's very stubborn.
35:15
So I was like, that's first. I would definitely say
35:22
intelligent cause unlike Matt Murdock and unlike Dick Grayson,
35:30
Jerry is a detective. He's a private investigator and
35:35
he owns his own private investigation agency.
35:38
So he uses his intelligence to help people solve crimes, which
35:43
is kind of funny because that's also what he does as a vigilante
35:48
is stopping crime. So yeah, kind of works both
35:51
ways. He he uses that cover really
35:53
well. But then I also say empathetic.
36:00
And I think you saw this in the the first few pages.
36:04
But like when the the Mendez's come to him about their son and
36:12
the way that he just immediately wants to help them, like I
36:17
wanted that to be shown in a way that people see, OK, he cares
36:22
and wants to help people. It was like a full stop moment.
36:24
It was one of those that humanizes a character, a
36:28
superhero, very, very well. I thought it was really well
36:31
handled 'cause there was such a big tonal shift and I'm such a
36:35
like, I'm so Snooty about tones and different tones in comics.
36:40
And that was that's when I was like, oh, I'm getting somewhere.
36:45
Yeah, that story is actually going to is actually going to
36:49
span like 3 or 4 issues before it actually gets resolved and I
36:54
do. Like that?
36:56
I want the the the heart of that story to truly resonate with
37:02
people because it's is all those going to be resolved in about 3
37:06
or 4 issues is going to be one of those stories where you will
37:11
see the ramifications throughout the rest of the run for
37:15
Nighthawk for the next 4 volumes.
37:17
That does answer my next question because I was going to
37:20
ask if it's more episodic or is it more continuation.
37:24
So. So it's continuation.
37:25
Yes, yes, all. Right, All right.
37:27
We're cooking here. Very much so.
37:31
So thank you, by the way, so much for coming on here.
37:34
This has been so fun. I'm having so much fun.
37:36
Yeah. So you said you're not very good
37:39
at self promoting, but like you've been doing a really good
37:41
job. So I think you're getting
37:43
better. I'm trying, it's taking a lot.
37:46
There's literally been days where I was just like, OK, Gary,
37:50
you're going to self promote, you're going to you're going to
37:54
do it in a way where people can connect.
37:56
And a lot of it has just been like watching how other comic
38:00
creators promote and then just finding ways that work best for
38:03
me. And I'm glad to hear that it's
38:06
been working so. Yeah, so getting to know you as
38:10
the writer without talking about Nighthawker Charger, tell me one
38:17
random fact about you. One random fact about me.
38:25
Well, something that I told people every time when I meet
38:29
them and every time I tell the people this, they always say
38:33
that it makes sense, that it just seems to track.
38:36
But for most of my childhood I played football up until I broke
38:46
my leg. But yeah.
38:49
Did you break your leg playing football?
38:52
Yeah, so I played football all the way through my junior of
38:56
high school, and then I just stopped because I wasn't
39:01
enjoying it the way I wanted to. Yeah.
39:03
And there are some days I still regret that decision.
39:07
I kind of sometimes wish I stuck with it.
39:09
But I tried playing flag football after I graduated, and
39:16
that's where I broke my leg because, yeah, was doing too
39:19
much. I get that.
39:22
I mean, because you don't know where your life would have been,
39:24
but you do know if you like the littlest thing, could change
39:27
everything. So if you would have stayed with
39:28
football, imagine we wouldn't have Charger, we wouldn't have
39:32
Nighthawk. That would be crazy.
39:35
Yeah, I probably wouldn't have even.
39:36
Like if I had stuck with football, I probably wouldn't
39:38
have even been in the comics like I wanted to so.
39:43
Dude, I never knew. Well, the many faces of Gary
39:48
Jones, that's another. Well, thank you for telling me
39:53
that. So we're nearing the end of the
39:55
conversation, which like, I feel like we could keep talking about
39:59
it if we had your full comic out and everything, but it's like I
40:03
keep stopping myself because I'm like, you can't ask that.
40:07
You can't do that. So that's I.
40:10
Mean I I'm willing to give because you're the homie.
40:13
I'm willing to give you 1 spoiler question.
40:18
I'll, I'll let you have that just because just, I mean, we've
40:22
known each other for so long. I know, but my question is how
40:25
does it end? Like how does not just the comic
40:31
at the end of it, you can say yes or no, you can just say you
40:35
can just screw yourself and wait, is this OK?
40:40
Is it an end of the universe kind of thing?
40:42
Like it blew up and everyone died?
40:44
Or is it everyone's just living happily ever after?
40:48
Neither. Fucking I mean.
40:52
So I'm actually glad you asked that because that actually is
40:54
not a spoiler. The way I plan on ending this
40:57
universe is OK, so I got to be more careful on how I
41:06
essentially what's going to happen is there's going to be a,
41:12
a complete reset of the universe, OK, And all powers
41:16
will be removed and there won't be anyone with super abilities
41:20
or anything like that. So that's how the universe is
41:22
going to end. OK, I didn't see that coming at
41:25
all. I swear for the split tiniest
41:29
second you were thinking I was like, he's about to say it was
41:31
all a dream. I know it.
41:33
Oh definitely, I hate that. I hate that it's so much.
41:37
Yeah, but no, because I look at how DC did Crisis on Infinite
41:43
Earths and when they reset everything and essentially just
41:47
made it where like everything happened in like a short period
41:51
of time, I was like, I don't like that.
41:54
And then reading the Marvel 2015 Secret Wars event and how they
41:59
essentially brought all the universes into one and then
42:02
eventually separate universes again, I was like, I don't like
42:06
that. And I know a lot of other people
42:09
or a lot of other creators, they like kind of dabbling in
42:12
multiverse type things. I wanted my ending to be finite.
42:16
I want it to have where when everything is done is done,
42:22
there's no if ands or buts about it.
42:24
There's no prognostication on like what could be happening.
42:29
The center 3rd is like this is the end and these people no
42:33
longer like these people will continue to exist but they won't
42:38
exist in this aspect. See, we need so much more of
42:42
that in complex because it's always, I understand why writers
42:47
do it. I totally get it.
42:48
The possibilities are endless with the multiverse.
42:50
You can always come back or you can just not, you know, it's
42:53
always left up in the air. But I feel like there needs to
42:56
be more finality and life because stories end and that's
43:01
that's what they should do. Yeah, that's why I liked kind of
43:05
going off top of it. That's why I like Stranger
43:06
Things ending so much. It was kind of long for them to
43:10
like give us that hour long this is what they're doing now type
43:14
of thing. But I liked it because like we
43:16
know for sure there there's no way they can keep going like
43:19
they everything is ended. So yeah, they're.
43:22
Not going to be some random 20 years later they're all moms and
43:27
kids and their kids go to the upside down.
43:29
Like I would hate the hell out of that.
43:32
That would that would make me sick actually.
43:36
So my last question for you, and it's a big one since you're such
43:41
a Daredevil fan, would he be able to sense Spider Man Spidey
43:48
sense? I've asked so many people this
43:57
and I get a different answer every time.
43:59
So I saw this on TikTok. So what this question?
44:05
Someone did this a skit like this about this?
44:09
Mother of God. I know.
44:12
And it's a really good question because it's, it's like, which
44:16
one really is more powerful? I got to give it the Spidey,
44:21
though. I don't think you would be able
44:22
to. And I'm not a Spider Man fan.
44:26
I think he's a, he's an OK character.
44:29
I just could never really connect with him in that manner.
44:31
Of course. But I do think the Spidey sense
44:36
is a bit more powerful than Daredevil's radar sense, so I
44:41
don't think he'd be able to sense it.
44:43
See, don't feel bad about your answer at all because Stephanie
44:46
Phillips had the same answer. She said she doesn't think he'd
44:49
be able to pick up on it because he can sense physical things and
44:55
Spider Man Spidey sense would be a mental thing.
44:57
And I say I think you're wrong, Stephanie Phillips.
45:01
I think you're wrong. So you're never going to catch
45:04
me arguing with Stephanie Phillips, I will say that.
45:07
I never thought I would either. And like, I think you're wrong,
45:12
that's all. But it's not.
45:13
That's fine. I guess it's up to the writer.
45:17
That's funny though, because I know you're a huge Spider Man
45:20
fan. I am.
45:21
And so I figured that you would have actually been on the side
45:24
of Spider Man, Spider sense being more more powerful.
45:29
I think what I think it would be is that Daredevil would be able
45:33
to sense effects of the Spidey Sense, but not the Spidey Sense
45:38
itself. I think he would, yeah.
45:40
I think he wouldn't. He would pick up on the heart
45:43
rate, his blood going cold, you know, that whole thing.
45:46
But the Spidey sense, I think that is only for Peter.
45:50
I agree. I agree with you on that.
45:53
Yes, Stephanie. Sorry Stephanie, she she makes
45:58
very valid points, but I'm still looking forward to your
46:01
Daredevil run. I am so stupidly excited.
46:05
Yeah. Like, it's, I love Daredevil so
46:07
much, and Stephanie is one of my favorite writers.
46:10
Obviously you're included in that, but her with Daredevil?
46:15
Oh my God. It's just going to be so good.
46:17
I I. Just And then she's writing for
46:19
DC. She's going to be doing Spider,
46:22
Gwen and Supergirl. Oh yeah, yeah, I saw that.
46:26
Yeah, I'm gonna have to get that Supergirl for sure.
46:30
I was just like, it is the year of Megan and this is that's
46:34
just, it's all working for me because I love both of those
46:37
characters. I love Stephanie, I love
46:39
Daredevil and no one can tell me nothing.
46:42
It's all going to be fantastic. Yeah.
46:44
I mean, this honestly is the year that you're getting
46:47
everything that you want. I know.
46:49
Finally, are there any comics coming out that you're looking
46:52
forward to, or is it just been laser focused on yours?
46:56
There's a lot of comics I've been excited to see, so there's
47:02
I'm going to shout out some indie comics because I love the
47:06
old comics. My my good friend Paul at Acorn
47:11
Comics, he has Heroes and Zeros coming out and eventually, soon,
47:18
like maybe sometime later this year or next year, we're going
47:21
to get The Olympian 2. Super excited for both of those.
47:25
I'm very excited for The Olympian 2.
47:27
I love The Olympian one. It was.
47:29
Such. A good story.
47:30
If you guys haven't checked out Acorn comics absolutely do it
47:33
because Paul is amazing and they're they make great quality
47:38
stuff. Like you love Marvel and BC,
47:40
Imagine if comics went beyond that and then you'd find indie
47:44
comics. Another one I'm excited for my
47:49
friend at 6:15 comics. He has his story.
47:54
I think it's the Kings domain to coming out that's supposed to be
47:58
coming out in the next few months.
48:00
So I'm excited for that. I haven't been keeping up with a
48:05
lot of current runs at Marvel in DC, but I do.
48:09
Like I said, I am excited for Stephanie Phillips dared
48:12
overrun. I follow her on TikTok and as
48:15
soon as she's made that announcement I dropped my phone
48:17
and just jumped up with joy. I sent it to our mutual friend
48:22
Matt, and I remember both of us. I know how he reacted.
48:26
He just kind of stared at the phone.
48:27
I know what he did. I just know it because Daredevil
48:30
is his thing, Daredevil and Batman, and it's also my thing.
48:35
So we both were like, this is our Super Bowl.
48:38
This is it. It is.
48:40
That's how I felt. That's exactly how I felt.
48:44
I haven't been really keeping up with anything DC related, so I
48:46
feel very disappointed with myself.
48:48
They did just do the new milestone initiative.
48:52
The Dakota incident, I haven't gotten that yet.
48:55
You're going to love it. I'm getting it on Tuesday since
48:58
I am going to be off work and I'm going to go get that, so I'm
49:01
excited. We're going to get a review.
49:05
Maybe I'm trying to be more intentional with how I handle my
49:09
shorts on YouTube and on TikTok, so we'll see.
49:14
It's so annoying because you have to put them in so much work
49:16
and thought into these damn shorts on YouTube and then
49:19
someone just has one of them walking around their kitchen
49:22
looking around and it gets like 11 million views.
49:25
It's like, literally what are we doing?
49:28
My my best short on YouTube has been the trailer I did for
49:36
Lionheart like 3 years ago. Well, that's something.
49:40
Something you made, Yeah. Yeah.
49:42
Well, hell yeah. Then I think it's going to only
49:46
get better. And I cannot wait to hear what
49:48
you think of the Dakota incident.
49:50
Because I read it and I was like, I don't need to read
49:52
anything else today. You could.
49:56
I'm really excited, I'm a huge fan of the Milestone universe.
49:59
I really love Static and I really love Static Rocket and
50:04
Hardware. Those are my 3 favourites.
50:06
You're going to freaking die with this thing.
50:08
You're going to love it. I'm so excited for you.
50:11
I'm excited. So that does bring us to the end
50:13
of the episode. I cannot believe we've been
50:15
talking for 50 minutes. It doesn't feel like at all it.
50:18
Felt like 20. Obviously you're invited back
50:20
anytime, even if you don't have a new comment coming out.
50:24
You're, you're part of the family, so obviously.
50:27
I will always be happy to jump on and like I mentioned at the
50:30
beginning, I'm bringing you on soon so.
50:33
Yes, I will be there and I'm very excited for that.
50:36
So tell our listeners where they can find you, where they can
50:39
look for Nighthawk, Kickstarter, everything.
50:43
So we have Divergent Comics on Threads and Instagram at
50:52
Divergent under score Comics. The link for the Kickstarter is
50:56
in the bio on there, but I also have a pin post on both
51:01
Instagram and threads with the link for the Kickstarter and
51:07
then on Facebook. I think it's Divergent Comics
51:12
one. Facebook is so weird 'cause I
51:16
tried to get the Divergent Comics page set up first and
51:22
somehow someone else has a virgin comics.
51:26
Yours divergent com it's divergent comics.
51:29
It's just a OK, yes, OK, yeah, I couldn't remember.
51:33
It's always weird with Facebook. It is because it's a page.
51:35
Yeah. They they don't care about your
51:37
page. They don't they.
51:40
Don't at all, but I'm more active on my personal page.
51:42
I'm trying to be more active on my Divergent Comics page.
51:46
I'm sorry you guys, it it's hard.
51:49
I've built up such a fan base on my personal pages.
51:52
It's so hard because it's like splitting yourself into two
51:55
because I do it like I'm on my personal Facebook, then I'm on
51:59
my Vigilante vibes podcast Facebook, and it's like I can't
52:03
keep up. One of me, but who is a lot.
52:06
The good thing about your your page though, you have a lot of
52:10
people that really and truly interact, and I love the
52:15
community you've built. It's such a fun community.
52:17
Thank you. They're all very they're most of
52:19
them are really great people. Most of them.
52:22
There's some that I'm like OK, but the there's some people that
52:27
are like ride or die, amazing people.
52:30
Absolutely amazing. Yeah, on all social media.
52:33
You can just look up Gary Jones and you should be able to find
52:35
me. Yes, and all of the links to
52:38
everything he just said and the Kickstarter will be in the show
52:41
notes right under the episode. So be sure to check that out.
52:44
Be sure to go like, follow, subscribe, do everything you can
52:49
to support Gary because this is a comic that everyone should be
52:52
reading when it comes out. And if you haven't read The
52:54
Charger yet, what are you doing? I'm worried.
52:58
So thank you for listening to this episode of Vigilante Vibes.
53:00
Wherever you're listening to this episode, click that
53:02
subscribe button so you don't miss any of my amazing guests
53:04
like Gary or any future episode. Thanks for listening.
53:07
I hope you enjoy it. Have a marvelous night.