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CLASSIC: That Time Vermont Was an Independent Republic · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, have you ever been to Vermont?
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: I have not been to Vermont, but I do like
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Ben and Jerry's. I know that's so cliche everybody, So
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I think anybody know we're fishes from I think, right,
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: our fish from Vermont.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Also famous for stunning a tumnal foliage. Sure, people
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: say they drive to Vermont and lovely level headed people apparently. Yeah.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And Bernie Sanders, right, he's a Vermont.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, Yeah. Most famous as being a cousin of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Larry David's. He did some other stuff. I didn't want
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: to catch up with him.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: But make some memes. If I'm not.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Mistaken, he did some memes. He's got some mittens. Yeah,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: but he's got a long and very career, and he
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: is a Vermont guy. And once upon a time, as
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I believe you and I were both surprised to find,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Vermont was not a state. But it was an independent republic.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: That's right as sure was, and we're gonna hear all
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: about it on this classic episode of Ridiculous History.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and thank you for lending your ears. Ridiculous Historians like
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: to begin today's episode with an excellent trivia question. I
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: think this will work. Know you're a fan of trivia.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of trivia. Hit me Ben, all right,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: I bet you know.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I forget that part sometimes accomplished it. Yeah. So here's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: the trivia. Which US states were once upon a time
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: independent countries of their own countries. You say, well countries.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: There's the Kingdom of Hawaii. Oh okay, there's the California Republic.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: There's Texas as well, which is still very proud of
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: that period in their history.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: May they're trying to turn back the clock in fact.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And there's one that might surprise many people, and that
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: is Vermont.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Vermont. You say, home of Ben and Jerry's Bernie Sanders.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders fish.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Trees, right, I think Fish is from Vermont band Fish.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I thought we were just now naming things.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Hey Fish, you know a famous Jimmy jam Newdley guitar guys.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Apparently they got together at the University of Vermont in Burlington.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I can see that meeting. No, maybe they said, you
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: know what I hate when songs are less than twenty
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: minutes long.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: No, man, it's funny too. Because like, the people that
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: are really into that band are like, dude, did you
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: hear that one show they played like the longest ever
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: version of slippy Dip. Yeah, that's a fish song I
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: just made up.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, it's it's up there with poblem quat
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: mm hmm yep, I think it's off there. That's a
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: concept album. Yeah, only only real music heads. Well we'll
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: get that reference fish heads. Yeah, only real fish heads,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: real music of fishionados like our man on the Ones
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and twos Ladies and gentleman super producer Casey Pegram. No,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: have you ever been to Vermont?
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: No? But it seems glorious and it's I mean beautiful.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: It's very green, and it just seems kind of like
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: a bit of a of a liberal paradise, you know.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: It's often portrayed that way. It's also very popular with
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: nature lovers, as long as you don't mind a little cold.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And one other fun trivia fact that I don't
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: know will either fascinate you in a weird way the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: way it did me, or just seem completely irrelevant unless
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: you're playing a game of trivia, is the following of
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: all the US state capitals. The capital of Vermont, Montpellier,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: is the only one in the nation to not have
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: a McDonald's.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think you mean Montpier, Casey Montpelier, Ah, and
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: that is Casey on the Case, crushing me. Well.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: The interesting thing here is that for most of us
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: in the modern day, whether in the US or abroad,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: people outside of the US haven't really heard much about Vermont.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: It's not one of those states like New York or
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: California that seems to be in the news every single day.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: No, No, it's definitely not. Because it feels like there's
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: sort of a little enclave, a little island in the stream,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: sort of an oasis. Right, Yeah, because not only just Montpiier, Huh,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: not bad, Okay, Casey on the Case not having McDonald's.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: In fact, in all of Vermont billboards, my friend, yeah,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna find a one unless they're hand painted,
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: because they are outlawed. They are verboten.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Hand painted, and I think showing the way to downtown
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: or something like that. It's pretty specific.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: But we're not here to just list off trivia facts
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: about Vermont, which you can find at fifty States dot com,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: slash factslash Vermont dot htm. By the way, if you
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: want to read some more of these.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Instead, we are here to explore the story of
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Vermont's history, whereas some people called it once upon a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: time new Connecticut, new Connecticut, new Connecticut.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I like Vermont better.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: I like Vermont too. I'm a little I don't know.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Every time I read something about a region or a
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: state named new something, I always think, surely there was
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: out of all the sounds a human mouth can make,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: surely you could have made something that wasn't new.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: Total blah blah blah. It's like you know when you
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: have a Chinese restaurant where it's like Mingwa too, or
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: like new New Mingwa. Right right, let's just come on.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Or we're both pretty big Mitchell and weblook fans also
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Peep Show. They've got this great running sketch that addresses how,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: at least in their opinion, how newly colonized places acquired
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: these strange names, like New South Wales. It's a pretty
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: weird name for Australia, you know, or the Australian Well.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm confused because we're going to talk about you know,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: before people shred us apart for not getting to the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: damn point. We are going to talk about the history
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: of Vermont and where it came from. But I am
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: confused about Connecticut because Vermont's not even not near Connecticut.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, no, no, it's it's the new Connecticut.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I just it's like New Coke's. It's confused, I know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I know. But here's the thing. Back in the day,
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: in the olden days, just before the American Revolution, in fact,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: when we were still colonies of Mother England, there were
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: land grants given out, or the privilege of granting settlers
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: parcels of land. Yeah, and those were at the best
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: of the rulers, I guess, or was there maybe there's
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: the baron I don't know. Of established colonies.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Right, the colonial government structure. There you go, New York
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: being one of them and New Hampshire being another, New
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Hampshire being another. So there was this thing called the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire land Grants, and of that what became modern
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: day Vermont was included. But there was a problem, Ben
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: because it was like New York was giving out land
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: willy nilly, yep, and New Hampshire was giving out land
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Willy nilly, and they were giving out the same land,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: same land. They were double bookings, so crossover. Yes. So
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: let's say you want to settle in what would later
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: become known as Vermont, and you go to the designated
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: place that you have been granted, right, and you find
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: that there's already someone living, and they think, well, hey, buddy,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: what gifts? What's your beef? You know, why are you
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: why are you beefing up with me? I also have
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: this land grant And they go, well, I have one
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: from New York. Well I have one from New Hampshire.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Not not a good look.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: No, and then what do they just duke it out? Right?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: So this is this is a recipe for chaos, my friend.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So what happens next? Oh?
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Well, can we talk about the Green Mountain Boys?
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: I would love to talk about the Green Mountain Boys
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and Ethan Allen their leader.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not to be confused with the U, the furniture proprietaire, right, right,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe it is the same. Is it the same?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: We'll have to find out. I don't buy a lot
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: of Ethan Allen furniture.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I don't buy all my furniture is from Eka.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's the correct pronunciation. So the Green Mountain Boys
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: were a militia that was first established in the seventeen
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: sixties in the territory between New York and New Hampshire.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: They were an unofficial militia too, or an un sanctioned militia,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: which I kind of always when I hear them the
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: word militia, I always kind of think it's people deciding
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: we're gonna, you know, join forces and become a little
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: mini army.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: It never seems like they're particularly sanctioned. But I guess
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: that's not true.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: That's not true in every case. It's just in the
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: US nowadays. Usually when we hear the term militia, we
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: think of separatist forces in the US.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: Right there you go.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: So at this time, as Revolutionary War is kicking into
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: full steam, it's all hands on deck if you want
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to fight the British, the colonial powers are not going
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: to say no to you. And the Green Mountain Boys
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: make a name for themselves during the war.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: They do, I mean their their primary goal was to
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: defend these folks who received land grants from New Hampshire
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: against the ones that got them from New York, who
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: they referred to as the Yorkies or the Yorkers. I
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: think it's Yorkies a little more like a term of abuse.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: I'm going with Yorkies. Let's go come at me, Internet,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Let's go with.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Yorkies, because Yorkers, you know, it just sounds like the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: term for the people from York. We're talking about New
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: York exactly.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: But that was their thing.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: So the Green Mountain Boys formed, as as you said,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Noel to protect people in New Hampshire grants. They also
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: performed pretty well in the Revolutionary War, most notably when
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: they captured Fort Taekwonderoga on May tenth of seventeen seventy five,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: and then later also they invaded Canada. Technically, or more specifically,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: they briefly held Saint John's in Quebec, but then when
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: they heard the British Regulars British military was coming.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: They dipped.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: And they later became Oh you know what, I've got
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: to interrupt, Casey is going to kill us if we
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: don't mention the etymology of Green Mountain.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Oh it's true. Well, there's a couple things here. The
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Green Mountain Boys took their name because they were protecting
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: folks who had these disputed land grants right, they received
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: it from New Hampshire, but New York said that New
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Hampshire had no rights to lands west of the Green Mountains.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And so the Green Mountain.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Boys, the Green Mountain Boys, and also.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Vermont itself is a mispronunciation or mistranslation of a French word.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: And I propose that we consult our own Francophone ladies
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: and gentlemen.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Is Casey on the.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: Case, Yeah, so Vermont would be from the French vere
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: for green and Mont for mountain so Vermont. But the
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: syntax is kind of done in the English style, and
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: French you would say montvere, whereas in English we put
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: the adjective before the mountains so Vermont.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Casey on the case, I'm so glad
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: he's here. He's the best son to miss him.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Oh that's right. Should we announce I guess we should.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Well, let's go.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's not our our close close friend. One
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: of the best parts of the show casey Pegram will
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: be embarking on a grand adventure very soon. He will return,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna miss him.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we've we've kind of twisted his arm off.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Mike in the hopes that he will send us some
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: sweet audio postcards from Franz.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. He is traveling back to France
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: for a while.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: So the Green Mountain Boys, they were kind of terrorists
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, at least insomuch as they
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: terrorized these settlers who had the grants of land from
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: New York.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: They apparently like would cattle russell, and they even were
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: known for beating the crap out of people with birch rods.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it goes back to this idea of them
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: being kind of, I don't want to say knuckleheads, but
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: very much acting in their own interests rather than some
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: greater ideology of what we would call the United States.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And in seventeen seventy seven they established their independence, but
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: they didn't partner up with New York. Did partner up
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: with New Hampshire, No, sir. They became their own republic,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: with their own currency, their own flag, and the Green
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: Mountain Boys, which still active, became just one of a
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: number of what we would call irregulars. Because Vermont initially
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: supported the Revolutionary War, they fought against Quebec, but in
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: seventeen seventy seven they got more of a neutral stance,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: and deserters from the colonial armies as well as the
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: British armies would go to Vermont, and George Washington was
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: asked by Congress to go in and subdue Vermont, take
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: take possession of it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I seem pretty subdued to me already.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Around the same time, some members of the Green
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Mountain Boys, not all of them, started having secret talks
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: with British officials in Quebec to say like, hey, do
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: you want to take over.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Let's boo up, let's boo up. Yeah, but that didn't
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: work out because Quebec wanted to see how this whole
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: revolution thing was gonna shake out.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: That's right, and you know you would we could argue that.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: Fortunately for US as a nation, Vermont stayed a part
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of the United States, but not yet, not yet, because
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it's seventeen seventy seven, so they're still independent. For a
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: few years.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: They had their own constitution even.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, adopted off the one Benjamin Franklin wrote for Pennsylvania exactly.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And this constitution was very progressive for its time and
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: forward facing. It had some guarantees that the rest of
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the United States had not legislated.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know now, and we talk about this,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: this seems like duh, but that all men men could vote,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: even if they weren't property owners. And they also were
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: very progressive in that they outlawed adult slavery, and I
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: always see that, does that mean child slavery was still okay?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a troubling caveat. But still they were
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: outlawing slavery in some form.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: That's more than we can say for the rest of
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: the country.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: That is true. When they were voting on this constitution,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: it was described as a baptism of thunder lightning and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: rain because the weather was really bad and they got
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: stuck inside. And let's let's talk about a few of
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the things they did once they became an independent republic.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: We said they had their own flag. What else did
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: they They also had their own currency, which was called
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Vermont coppers. Sounds very British to me. They were made,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: of course in Vermont. Vermont also operated a postal system,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: that's right, grew their own food, they had their own roads.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: They were ready to go it alone, but they were
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: still they were still in conflict with New York.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, big time, because I mean New York was
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: pretty sore about them having just kind of boguarded those
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: land grants that they felt like they had the rights
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to and those pesky green Mountain boys whipping their folks
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: with their birch rods. That wasn't gonna.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: Fly, right, Yeah, And eventually it comes down to a
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: matter of negotiations.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: So, for around fourteen years, Vermont is this tremendous anomaly
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: in the northeastern part of what would later become known
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: as the United States, and they were still they were
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: still in conflict with New York in an unsustainable situation.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: But things began to get back on the rails, back
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on track in March of seventeen ninety when New York
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: and Vermont cracked a deal.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Well, this is when the Revolution had come to an end, right, Yeah,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: and territories or colonies were being made into states. And
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: I guess because of the contentious nature of their relationship
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: during the Wild West period that was the Revolutionary War,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: new York and Vermont had to come to terms before
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: New York would consent to Vermont being made a state.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Not that it was entirely up to them, but they
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: certainly were making a stink about it, right, And tell me,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: they give me the deals here.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: So it's that same boundary dispute that was dogging them
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: for so long. The fact that the Green Mountain Boys
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: were operating as a de facto government meant that they
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: were also part of the negotiation process here. And so
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: New York and Vermont got together. They had a group
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: of people representing the New York side of the argument
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: and group representing the Vermont side, and they said, we
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: are going to negotiate the boundary. We need to know
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: where New York stops and Vermont begins. The folks negotiating
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: on Vermont's side said, we also have to settle these
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: real estate disputes. We cannot leave those to be decided
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: by a larger Courtlet's one on one figure this out.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: It seems smart, I seem acquitable.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's so many more variables that could happen
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: if it goes into a federal court.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: What a nasty situation. I mean, it seems like the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: New Hampshire grant recipients having these rabble rousing Green Mountain
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Boys on their side certainly helped them out during the time.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: But think about it from New York's perspective. I mean,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: what did they do wrong. They had the same claim
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: as New Hampshire did as far as they were concerned.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, they probably felt a little rightfully sore
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: about the whole situation, physically sore from their bottoms and
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: being hit with switches.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And fiscally sore on their bank accounts or their purses.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: You know, they're sacks of coppers. Sure, so they eventually,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: thank goodness, crack a deal. And on October seventh of
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: seventeen ninety, they announced as a group that the negotiations
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: are done and it's a success. And the bottom line
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: is that the Green Mountain people are going to be
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: able to keep the land grants that were issued the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: land that was issued to them via New Hampshire, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: the New Yorkers are not going to get these New
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: York patents, the Yorkies. The Yorkies are not receiving this. Instead,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Vermont is going to pay thirty thousand dollars to New York.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Thirty thousand dollars in seventeen ninety will inflate in a second,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and this will be distributed amidst the Yorkies, New York
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: residents who you know, rightfully feel like they got their
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: land stolen, and thirty thousand dollars in seventeen ninety is
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: a big number, but it's not as surprising as I
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: would have assumed. Thirty thousand dollars in seventeen ninety is
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: seven hundre undred and ninety thousand dollars approximately in twenty eighteen.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, not that impressive, Not that impress It seems like
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: a pretty good deal, to be honest.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Honestly it does because that's an entire state, you know
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: what I mean. Oh yeah, that's a great deal. You
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: can't go buy a state for a million dollars today,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: just the district, yep. And so eventually Vermont is admitted
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: to the Union in seventeen ninety one. It's interesting because
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: it's the only state admitted without conditions of any kind,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: either those prescribed by Congress or the state from which
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: was carved other than the thirty k, Other than that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: thirty large Yeah, thirty was thirty juligans, thirty thousand hooligans.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Or thirty thousand biscuits.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, they're jeb jams or pony boonts. What are
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: we talking about. We'll get to it in a second,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: but for now, it's important to note that part of
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the reason Vermont was accepted to the Union was to
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: be a free state counterweight to the slave state Kentucky.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Oof.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Indeed, so this would be this would appear to be
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the short lived tale of Vermont's career as an independent republic.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: But wait, he said, there's more right right.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: You see, many philosophers will tell you that time itself
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: is a series of wheels, And in our modern day, folks,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: it seems that the wheel has turned again.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: In around two thousand and three, a movement became a foot. Yes, yes,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: that is correct.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Nol, professor emeritus of economics at Duke University. A fellow
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: named Thomas H. Naylor founded the Second Vermont Republic movement,
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: and he argued that the US has become an ungovernable empire,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: much like the former Soviet Union, and Naylor's description of
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: this Second Vermont Republic is a nonviolent citizens network and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: think tank opposed to the tyranny of corporate America and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the US government and committed to the return of Vermont
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: to its status as an independent republic as it had
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: been between seventeen seventy seven and seventeen ninety one. He
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: calls himself Naylor describes himself as a left leaning libertarian
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: with strong anarchist tendencies.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, there you have it.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Not pulling mini punches.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: No, none punches. And in fact, this movement has a manifesto.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: And in the manifesto they quote Thomas Jefferson himself, and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: it's really hard to argue with this. The words of
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: the founding father quote, whenever any form of government becomes destructive,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: it is the right of the people to alter or
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: form as to them shall seem most likely to affect
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: their safety and happiness. And here's the thing. They have
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: a list of demands in this manifesto that they want
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: to achieve. Shall we go through them? Ben sure. First,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: we find it increasingly difficult to protect ourselves from the
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: debilitating effects of big government, big business, big markets, and
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: big agriculture, who want all of us to be the
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: same and to love bigness as much as they do.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Second, in addition to being too big, our government is
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: too centralized, too powerful, too intrusive, to materialistic, and too
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: unresponsive to the needs of individual citizens and small communities.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Third, the US government has lost its moral authority because
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it has owned, operated, and controlled by Corporate America. National
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: and congressional elections are bought and sold to the highest bidders.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Fourth, we have a single political party, the Republican Party,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: disguised as a two party system. The Democratic Party is
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: effectively brain dead, having no new ideas since the nineteen sixty.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Is that e Vermond accent?
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: No, I'm just I wanted to sound like a bunch
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: of people reading it.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: Oh cool, I'm going to be the one kind of
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: angry semi guy. Fifth, we have become disillusioned with the
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: so called American way, corporate greed, the war on terrorism,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: homeland security, the denial of civil liberty, pandering to the
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: rich and powerful, environmental insensitivity, and the culture of deceit.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Sixth, the American foreign policy, which is based on the
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: doctrine of full spectrum dominance, is moral, illegal, unconstitutional, and
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: in violation of the United Nations Charter.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I was like an old man there. Yeah. Seventh, as
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: long as Vermont remains in the Union, we face the
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: risk of terrorist attack and military conscription of our youth.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Eight The US suffers from imperial overstretch and has become
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: unsustainable politically, economically, agriculturally, socially, culturally, and environmentally. It has
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: become both ungovernable and unfixable.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And that's where we get to the Jefferson quote. All
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of this stuff is in response to the actual constitution
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: of the United States giving us an out in the
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: event that these things come to pass, as the founders
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: of this movement seem to think they have.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: And you can find information about this on multiple websites
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: by several different authors, and they will make numerous arguments
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: about I guess Vermont's capacity to be independent or to
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: grow its own food, monitors population, and a lot of
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the arguments that you'll see extended here are very progressive
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: considering what the rest of the US is doing, oh
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: big time.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: And you know, there was a sense that this movement
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: kind of faded a little bit from the public eye
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and from any you know, semblance of ever possibly coming
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: to fruition. But with our current president, who you know,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: many folks of this kind of left leaning ideology have
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: some real serious beef with there's a sense that who knows,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe this could happen because in an article
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: from Seven Days Vermont's Independent Voice entitled if at first
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: you don't see Trump could revitalize Vermont movement. There's a
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: lot of discussion around the kind of resurgence of this movement.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, that's They mentioned the Vermont Manifesto that we've
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: talked about. They they have an argument of unsustainability right
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: on the part of what they would call the American Empire.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: It's too large, it's too damaging to the people who
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: are governed by this, and a lot of their claims.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: One of the claims that really stuck out to me
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: in this one is they talked a little bit about
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: framing it. They said, you know, if you don't call
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it secession, if you don't call it separatism, if you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: don't call it secession and focus instead on values, ninety
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: percent of Vermontors will support you. And so the idea
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: there is that the residents of Vermont already feel that
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: they are kind of separate.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: What does it take ben to secede.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: It's a rough one because you know, at numerous times,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: especially in you know, in the formation of the country,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and sometimes in recent years, various groups of people have
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: decided that they are a sovereign state. There was one
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: here in Georgia a number of years ago, called the
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Sovereign State of Georgia. There were more in the south,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the creative, very creative burst of creativity. They had their
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: own licenses, they had their own license plates and stuff,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: and they were making their own currency, and they, like
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: several other separatist groups, believed that they could become a
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: sovereign nation just by claiming it and putting a sign
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: up so that I have signs if the law if
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: law enforcement officials came to their area, there would be
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a sign that was like, this is not us property,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: this is the sovereign State of Georgia. Foreign seems misinformed.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: It's a little misinformed. No foreign powers are allowed on
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: this spoiler alert. It never stopped the cops or the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: FBI or.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: Anything because of what would happened, right, What happened like
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: if we decided, you know, with the support of our
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: entire state here in Georgia, that we were going to
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: secede and we manage to that would require us establishing
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: militias I imagine, right, yeah, and becoming completely self sustaining
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and independent where we could be cut off entirely from
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: any government assistance. Or any aid from the federal governments.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, here's why it's tricky. Right now, the US Supreme
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Court considers what they call unilateral secession unconstitutional. So if
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: everybody in Vermont, just by themselves, only the state of Vermont,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: decided we're not part of this crazy continental house party.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Get me off this crazy thing. That was great George Jetson, Yeah,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: called love.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: That was so I married an ex murderer.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Also good.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: I was pretty good. It was surprisingly good. Not that
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: not my impression, but the film anyway. Because of a
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: case called Texas versus White, the Supreme Court says that
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: states can't succeed secede rather on their own. However, a
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: if they get the agreement of other states constitutionally, it
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: could be possible, like if one state wants to succeee,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: if Oklahoma, for some reason says we've had it even
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: though we're surrounded by other states, we want to do
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: our own thing, and the other forty nine states are
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: all like totally, man, it's it's just been weird for
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: a while and we're, you know.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Ready for a change.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: We could still be friends. Then it could be possible
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: if all the states agree that's never going to happen unlikely,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: That is highly unlikely.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: It would have to be like a perfect storm of
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: things falling in place, like I don't know, I don't
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: There's really no mechanism to do it other than like
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: pure revolt. Right, isn't that kind of what it would
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: be considered? Being an open revolt?
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Right, it would be, and if it were again unilateral,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: But that's that's the case for a reason, because countries
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: don't typically countries or groups of states don't tip bacon
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: that kind of secession. A lot of people will also
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: say that the Second Vermont movement, Vermont independence movement, has
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: been empowered by Brexit, the process through which the UK
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: is leaving the European Union.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: And that was a parliamentary procedure. I mean, that was
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: an official vote, part of their democracy, right.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was, and that's something that EU member states
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: can do if they want. But now they have a
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: portmanteau for the Second Vermont thing that is not super groundbreaking,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: but I love it. It's fun to say vexit.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I was going to say verm exit.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Vermes is. This sounds like a pesticide.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: I'm into it, ver mexit.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to ask you you know, do you
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: think that this is a good idea? Do you think
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: it's likely? I think it could happen.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: It seems a little self defeating to me. I don't know,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: are there any evenmntors out there that that are are
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: down with this cause that know a little bit more
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: like on the ground info about the plan here. I'm
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: interested because I really don't understand how it would functionally happen.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And I see where they're coming from with a lot
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: of the arguments. You know, they have problems with overarching
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: corporate governance. I hear that, right, you know. It's it's
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: not like they're making some crazy claim like we were
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: going to be an independent state with no Welsh residents
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: No, No, it's it's I mean, it's it's weird because
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: it's like we they want to be separate, but it's
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: very it's it's it's all about inclusion. It's weird. It's
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: it's not like we're saying get out, it's saying we
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: don't want to come in. Yeah.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's a sticky situation. But I think that
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you found the perfect way for us to end or
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: the perfect question for us to end this on if
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you are from Vermont, if you were familiar with the place,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: let us know about your experience, and let us know
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: if you support this, because, as we have often said,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: you are the most important part of the show. We
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: want to hear about you, and we're putting our money
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: where our mic is. I guess we should do a
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: listener mail.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: I think we should, all right, Our first listener mail
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: is this sort of a heavy one. We got an email,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: got two emails about the episode we did on banned
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: books banned science books. Yea one of them. The subject
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: was nol. I was bummed. And here's how it goes. Hi, gentlemen.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: First of all, a huge fan of stuff that I
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: want you to know and ridiculous history. I had a
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: whole spiel in mind to counterpoint your dismissal of fruitcake,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: but I was in the middle of a long walk.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I homeschool reluctant an anxious twelve year old and play
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: your podcast in the car to keep the learning going strong.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: That's awesome, it's very cool, and I just thought this
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: was the most thoughtful, sweet, intelligent email that we've gotten
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: in a minute. But I was bummed to see that
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: it was about a feeling of being disrespected, and that
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: is never what we want to do on this show.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So I'm just going to give you the broad shokes here.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I just listened to three times society refused to accept
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: band books and Noel, I'm such a fan of your
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: whole personality and Ben's and Matt's great things happening, but
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I was disappointed in the way you handled some things
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: on that episode. I'm paraphrasing just a little bit. She goes,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I submit that scorning people
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: who hold their deep and personal faith a notch above
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: the theory of evolution is becoming outmoded. When I lived
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: on a street with several Hindu families last year, they
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: had days set aside for sweeping the demons out of
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: their homes right into the street, I must assume, and
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: they kept images of terrifying faces over their front doors.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: This was the Dallas suburbs, USA, where we are free
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: to practice our faith in hopefully a respectful environment. I
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: know I respected my Hindu neighbors, though our beliefs differed.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a human being who deeply believes in God loves
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: my family, writes useless pop songs, drinks whiskey, smokes when angry,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: and embroiders nonsense. Teaches my child at home with such
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: resources as Candy Freak by Steve Allmond, your wonderful podcast,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: and Yes, the Bible. I married my husband in part
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: for his vast record collection. Evolution, I don't know for sure,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: nor do I sweat it. God can do anything he wants,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: including making cryptids just to hide them for fun. It's
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: a big world out there, don't forget. No need to
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: assume everyone listening is just like you. And faith is
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: so personal and so dear to people. Stay away from
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: scorn and dismissiveness. They, unlike the decision not to worship evolution,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: are for the young and uninformed. I love you too much, amys.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: So this specifically mentioning something that I said, and I
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: feel like I took a bit of a tone in
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: that episode that I regret. I don't step back from
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: my opinion, but I realize that it does seem like
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: maybe it came across as I was criticizing Christianity, and
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I think the reason that I may have taken that
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: tone because I grew up Christian and my relationship with
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: Christianity is complicated, just like everyone's relationship with their faith
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: can be complicated. And I think there's a sense of
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: it being on my turf and in my personal worldview,
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: So maybe I felt a little quicker to get snarky
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: about it. And I also didn't mean to equate directly
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: the idea of not believing in evolution with being and
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: somehow ignorant or uninformed.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: You know, there was I remember distinctly there was a
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: moment in that podcast where we talked about some Anglicans,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Anglican individuals and organizations who did not feel that what
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Charles Darwin was writing about was contradictory or insulting to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: their faith. And one thing that you and I have
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: always taken pains with, not just on this show, but
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: any show in our house of Works network. One thing
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: you and I have always taken things to do is
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: to you know, mention that faith is an intensely personal thing,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and it's very important to us as as a unit
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: not to tell you what to believe if it comes
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: to you know your spiritual values.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's something that we hold very dear and personally
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: important to be as inclusive as possible when it comes
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: to all faiths. And I think in this particular situation,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: my tone sort of betrayed my intention because of that
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: complicated relationship I have with the Christian faith.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: In like your own personal life.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: In my own personal life, I mean, I grew up
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: in the Methodist Church and had was surrounded by people
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: who I think I felt were a little bit judgmental
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: and were not willing to see both sides of an argument.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And maybe we're too willing to take everything in the
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Bible that face value rather than seeing things Some things
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: in the Bible is an allegory or some kind of
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: descriptive story to help understand things like epics and time.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: And I don't know, how do you see it, Ben Well.
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I think first off, first off, as as longtime listeners know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: you and I are old friends outside of work too,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: and I can assure everyone listening that you're not Noel
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Brown is not a mean person, nor the type to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: You're not a guy who mocks things that are you know,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: I don't think you ever come from a mean spirited
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: place at all. And additionally, you know, we just have
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: to return to the same point. We fundamentally do not
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: believe in nor do we practice telling people what spiritual
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: paths that they should take they are your own.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing too, and then we'll leave it. The
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: nature of the show. Obviously, it's a conversation between Ben,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: you and me, but it's also a conversation with the
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: audience that they are not able to directly participate in
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: at the moment. Even though my favorite podcast, I feel
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: like I'm part of the conversation and I'm listening to
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: people have a conversation that I am kind of vicariously experiencing.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: If I were to hang out with Amy Z and
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: have this conversation and express my opinions on evolution as
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: they pertain to faith, et cetera, there would be a
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: dialogue going on, as opposed to I think an interpretation
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: that I was being intentionally condescending, where I think in
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: a real conversation over dinner or drinks, that would be
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: clearly not the You would see that that was not
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: the case.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. And also, Amy, thank you
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: so very much for writing very much a beautifully written letter.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: And don't know if you still live in Dallas, but
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: if you do, say hey to the town for me.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I've got some folks that live in Dallas librarians, A
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: lot of librarians in my family.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: No, I did not know that about you.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Ben. Well, yeah, it's it's a true story. We do
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: have to have one more letter that made us laugh outloud,
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: and I feel like we have to read this one
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: because we totally did an inside joke with ourselves about
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: it earlier in the episode. It was a little sneak peak,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So here here we go. Trey H writes in with
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: an email entitled other terms for money. Hey, dude, says Trey,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: longtime listener of stuff they'll want you to know and relatively
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: new listener of ridiculous history. I'm loving the podcast.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Keep it up.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: He sent us a thumbs up emoji, so you know
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: it's legit. Anyway, I just wanted to talk to you
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: about your episode what's the deal with two dollars bills?
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: You guys mentioned something along the lines of how you
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: can almost replace the words money or dollars with just
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: about anything and people will probably still know what you're
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: talking about. I found that hilarious and decided to try
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: it out on some of my friends. Long story short,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I'm buying some old records from a buddy of mine
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: for forty dollars. So during our conversation over Snapchat, I
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: tried this out twice. I referred to the forty dollars
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: as forty biscuits and forty hooligans, and in both cases
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: my friend just rolled with it, the same as any
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: other normal conversation we would have. I'll probably continue this
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: and try it out on other people as well, because
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun. I'll email you again if
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I get any funny instances. Once again, thank you keep
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: up the good work on the podcast. You know pony Bones, Yeah,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Jim Jam's biscuits. I would love to hear more of these.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I think that we should start. I mean I've already started.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I'll confess to you, I've already started doing this in
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: daily life.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Do you have a running list?
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I have some that worked. The one of the weirdest
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: ones I pulled off this week was.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Peppadu's That's amazing. People will just agree with it, and
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I think I heard Casey it was an audible laugh
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: from outside the sweatbox.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: And we have encountered numerous instances of this. So wanted
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: to say thank you Trey for writing to us and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: hopefully you're inspiring your fellow listeners to find some more
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: to see how far you can push it. You know,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: I think shorter words are probably better, nol. I don't
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: think either of us could get away with a sentence
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: length slang.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: No, but something like scallywag might be cool. There we go. Yeah, yeah,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: but definitely not. Hey man, where's my five newmono ultra
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: microscopic silico val Canaconiosis's Yeah, yeah, they would say, is
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: that a medical condition or something like that? It's a
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: black lung disease.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Is that really?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Wow? Yeah, I learned that that's something that's the one
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: thing that stuck with me for middle school.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Well done, well done, So we are going to call
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: it a day. We want to thank you very very much, Amy,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: thank you Trey as well. Thanks to everybody who's been
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: writing it and finding us on Instagram, on Facebook, via email,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com, the other things we do.
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, help me out here, Yeah yeah, still workshopping away
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: at that Pinterest board. But we do have an active
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Facebook group called the Ridiculous Histories. You can be a
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: part of it. It's it's really become a fun little
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: little community. We pop in there and you know, post
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: embarrassing pictures and videos of ourselves for your amusement. You sickos.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Right right, and we encourage you to participate in some
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: of the wonderful threads or fellow listeners have started.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry I called. I think you're lovely people. I don't,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, Noel.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: The time continues on. Who knows by the time someone's
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: listening to this few years from now, Sickos may be
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: like a tremendous compliment. Yeah, it also makes fools of
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: us all times, time, time after time.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: It's also never time at all.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, but it is time for us to end the show.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: We hope that you have enjoyed this look at the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: strange story of Vermont, and we hope you stay tuned
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: for our next episode, examining some rituals from ancient Mayan culture.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: Rituals, you say, are you referring to ritual alcohol animas
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: my friends?
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, Actually we're not joking.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: We're gonna do that a whole episode.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: We're gonna do something with it.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: Good lord, I can't wait.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I'm interested to see what it works out too, But
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: do tune in see if we can if we can.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Pull that one off and butt chugging. I heard about it.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I read something about butt chugging recently.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a frat, a whole kerfuffle where these
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: frat guys were doing a thing called butt chugging, where
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: they kind of give themselves their own ritual alcohol enemas
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: right like they Yeah, yeah is the name says it all,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: and apparently it gets you quite tipsy.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: So join us for what is sure to be the
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: classiest episode of ridiculous History in our career, Classier.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Than the LBJ episode, even even.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Classier than LBJ, if you can believe it or not.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: We'd like to thank Casey Pagrim of course bid him
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: bon voyage as he is preparing to leave, yeah, on
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: this trip and on his adventure, Yes, I dare say.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: And we'd also like to think, of course Alex Williams.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: And Christopher haciotis our researcher extraordinary. And of course we'd
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: like to thank you.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Folks, Yes, thank you so much for monsters and non
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: vermonters alike.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, and we hope that we'll see you again
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: very soon on another episode of Ridiculous History.
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: Goodbye.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.