Latest / The Two Authors’ Podcast / Reviews on Booksprout with Celeste Barclay

Transcript

Reviews on Booksprout with Celeste Barclay · The Two Authors’ Podcast

• 0:00
  There's usually something in a quote unquote negative review that you can actually use as a positive to draw in the right readers.
• 0:07
  It's just when Nick does it on my books, it hurts my feelings.
• 0:14
  Welcome to the Two Authors podcast, an entertaining chat show hosted by bestselling mystery and thriller authors, Douglas Pratt and Nicholas Harvey in lively, humorous and informative conversation with distinguished guests who share their thoughts
• 0:29
  an experience about forging a successful author career.
• 0:36
  Welcome everyone to this week's show.
• 0:38
  How are you, Douglas Pratt?
• 0:40
  I am fabulous, Nicholas Harvey.
• 0:42
  How are you today?
• 0:43
  Not as good as you.
• 0:44
  You look stupendous.
• 0:46
  I don't know about that, I'm just doing all right.
• 0:51
  I'm starting off the show in a very complimentary way.
• 0:55
  Almost as if you've already seen the rest of the show.
• 1:00
  - That the hell things can go downhill in my direction
• 1:03
  later on I'm starting off on a high note
• 1:07
  and complimenting my wonderful bestest buddy.
• 1:10
  - You are so delightful.
• 1:12
  It is wonderful to see, you know,
• 1:14
  this whole Scrooge moment you had.
• 1:16
  (laughing)
• 1:18
  - Well, the show as always is brought to you
• 1:21
  by the fabulous Vellum.
• 1:23
  And do you know what you can do in Vellum?
• 1:26
  A cool feature that they have.
• 1:27
  - It's about fucking anything.
• 1:29
  I think, I think, and then they can help everything.
• 1:32
  - F-ing anything he says, that's probably true,
• 1:35
  but they have a feature of emojis.
• 1:38
  You can put emojis into your ebooks and paperbacks.
• 1:42
  I'm not about to put emojis, 'cause I'm an old fart,
• 1:46
  but there are lots of people.
• 1:48
  - I would probably have to sit down and explain
• 1:50
  the emojis to you so you can--
• 1:51
  - Yeah, which ones they are.
• 1:53
  - Yeah, make sure, I think for your books,
• 1:54
  it's definitely gonna be the eggplant emoji,
• 1:56
  so make sure you throw that one in there regularly.
• 1:58
  eggplant emoji.
• 2:00
  - Yes.
• 2:01
  - I know there's at least three.
• 2:02
  There's a smiley and unhappy face and a heart.
• 2:05
  Are there more?
• 2:06
  - There's tons more.
• 2:08
  Emojis have their own language.
• 2:10
  People could actually speak with just emojis.
• 2:12
  Like the new generation.
• 2:13
  - Oh, good grief.
• 2:14
  (laughing)
• 2:16
  - In my day!
• 2:18
  - Well, no, I think it's already important.
• 2:20
  - You've already like peeked up here
• 2:22
  at the really very nice nick
• 2:24
  and now you're sliding down the hill.
• 2:26
  - I've gotta balance it out.
• 2:27
  - I got to buy a suit on
• 2:57
  - Well, buddy, Nick Sullivan will love the Bigfoot Emoji.
• 2:59
  I bet he's wearing that Bigfoot Emoji out.
• 3:01
  So anyway, there's emojis you can put in your eBooks
• 3:04
  and stuff through the fabulous vellum.
• 3:07
  - You know, that goes well with their text
• 3:09
  because you can also put text in their book.
• 3:11
  I think that that's smart.
• 3:12
  'Cause I mean, people are texting with emojis,
• 3:15
  so having those in there is gonna be really cool.
• 3:17
  I think that's awesome.
• 3:18
  - I think it actually could be a neat thing to slide in there.
• 3:20
  I'm actually not ruling it out completely for myself, indeed.
• 3:24
  All right, a big thank you to our Patreon supporters.
• 3:26
  We love you guys, thank you so much.
• 3:28
  And hopefully you are digging the bonus content
• 3:32
  that we put in there.
• 3:33
  From the feedback that we get, it is well liked, well liked.
• 3:36
  So if you wanna join that Patreon clan
• 3:38
  and be a cool kid in town and help support the show,
• 3:41
  it's a couple of bucks a month
• 3:42
  and you get tons of extra stuff.
• 3:44
  - Only $3.
• 3:45
  - Three dollars.
• 3:47
  - cheaper than ETH you can buy at Starbucks.
• 3:50
  - There's very little you can actually buy these days
• 3:53
  for three dollars.
• 3:53
  So it's stupid good value.
• 3:56
  a friend of mine told me the other day, "Why are you only charging $3?" I said, "Well,
• 4:00
  I don't know. Why are we only charging $3?" Anyway, that's what it is, and that's what
• 4:04
  it's going to stay at least for this year. So, jump on over there, get on board with
• 4:08
  our Patreon, get all that extra bonus stuff. All right. So, today, we have a lovely guest,
• 4:14
  Celeste Barclay, who has been on the show before. She's here as the head of marketing
• 4:19
  for Booksprout, and we're going to talk about all things Booksprout. If you don't know what
• 4:23
  What book sprout is, stick around.
• 4:25
  You're gonna find out.
• 4:25
  - Hang tight.
• 4:26
  - We're gonna get there.
• 4:27
  But first, a listener question from our recent guest,
• 4:30
  Claire Taylor.
• 4:32
  Claire Taylor, thanks for sticking around
• 4:34
  for our listener question.
• 4:36
  You've got something for us.
• 4:37
  Turn the tables, what you got?
• 4:39
  - So if you could pick any iconic character
• 4:42
  that you most relate to,
• 4:43
  not one you've written, but a well-known one,
• 4:46
  what character do you relate to the most?
• 4:49
  - This, you're talking books?
• 4:50
  - Yeah, books are really easy.
• 4:51
  - It has to be books.
• 4:52
  - You can't just be a character in the world.
• 4:54
  (laughing)
• 4:56
  - I suppose.
• 4:57
  - You can pick somebody randomly.
• 4:59
  (laughing)
• 5:00
  - Do we know that?
• 5:01
  - This guy, there's a guy, he hangs out down by the docks
• 5:04
  and he's kinda cool.
• 5:06
  - I wanna, yeah.
• 5:08
  (laughing)
• 5:09
  - Yeah, I'm curious now, Nick.
• 5:10
  - I was like, I was now like.
• 5:14
  - Eddie Vedder.
• 5:14
  - Eddie Vedder, okay.
• 5:16
  - I think he's the coolest human being ever.
• 5:17
  - He's actually a person, he's not a character.
• 5:19
  - And you relate to him, you think you're
• 5:22
  - You're most like the coolest human being ever.
• 5:23
  - No, I want to be like him.
• 5:24
  - Okay, okay, ask for a show.
• 5:26
  - Yeah, I want to be like Eddie Vedder.
• 5:28
  I want to be Eddie Vedder.
• 5:29
  - Okay.
• 5:30
  - With my wife. - All right, cool.
• 5:31
  - I want my wife, not his wife.
• 5:33
  I'm sure his wife's lovely, but I want to be my wife.
• 5:35
  But I want to be Eddie Vedder.
• 5:36
  - He did it, but I can't.
• 5:37
  (laughing)
• 5:39
  - What do I do? - But coming like Eddie Vedder.
• 5:40
  I was gonna go with you to poo
• 5:42
  'cause he likes honey and then wear pants.
• 5:44
  But whatever.
• 5:45
  (laughing)
• 5:46
  - He loves honey.
• 5:47
  All right, Doug, what's your,
• 5:48
  you got a smarter answer, let's hear it.
• 5:51
  - What's
• 5:52
  He likes honey.
• 5:52
  He's a very like--
• 5:54
  - Oh, that was it?
• 5:55
  That was your answer?
• 5:56
  - I was gonna go with that.
• 5:57
  I was actually gonna say Travis McGeeb.
• 5:58
  And I thought I was probably more energetic
• 6:00
  than I actually am.
• 6:01
  So I'm gonna lean back towards Winnie the Pooh.
• 6:04
  He's probably a seven.
• 6:05
  He only wants what he wants.
• 6:06
  And he likes honey and doesn't wear pants.
• 6:11
  - Yes, seven all over him, written all over him.
• 6:14
  I just imagined the Winnie the Pooh
• 6:15
  in the night cap with the rifle.
• 6:17
  I don't know if you've seen that one.
• 6:18
  - Yeah, no, I haven't watched that one yet.
• 6:20
  But that's not how you know.
• 6:21
  - All right, well thank you for a very intelligent question
• 6:24
  that got two really stupid answers.
• 6:30
  A lovely friend and a prior guest, Celeste Barkley.
• 6:33
  Thank you so much for coming back to see us.
• 6:36
  - Thank you so much for having me.
• 6:37
  - You're just a glutton for punishment, aren't you?
• 6:39
  - Yeah, you didn't learn the first time.
• 6:41
  - When people ask me, oh, what podcast should I listen to?
• 6:45
  I always tell them, you guys,
• 6:47
  because I had so much fun with you last time.
• 6:50
  - You're so sweet.
• 6:51
  Oh my goodness, is this ever going to end?
• 6:53
  What did I sign up for?
• 6:54
  And with you guys, I was like, wait, it's over already.
• 6:57
  - That's so cool, thank you.
• 6:58
  - I bet you say that to all the podcasts.
• 7:00
  - Yeah.
• 7:04
  Well, cool.
• 7:04
  Well, today you're here on behalf of Booksprout,
• 7:08
  who you recently joined at the beginning of this year,
• 7:11
  I believe.
• 7:11
  - I did.
• 7:12
  I've been a loyal user of those since October of 2018.
• 7:17
  I'm coming up on my eighth anniversary with them as a user.
• 7:21
  I started with my third book total and I've used them for over 70 campaigns at this point.
• 7:30
  So when the opportunity came around and they needed a head of marketing, I threw my hat
• 7:35
  in because I've been such a loyal user for so long.
• 7:38
  I mean, that says a lot about them, doesn't it?
• 7:41
  Yeah, yeah.
• 7:42
  So tell the listeners a little bit about what Booksprout does.
• 7:45
  The Book Sprout is an ARC management platform.
• 7:48
  Basically, we handle the tasks that are not so fun about having ARC.
• 7:54
  [laughs]
• 7:54
  Like all of it?
• 7:56
  I'm not trying to be a little nilly here about it, but yeah, it can be a little tiresome.
• 8:01
  So essentially what happens is an author creates their book and uploads it onto the site, and
• 8:09
  then they can create an ARC campaign.
• 8:12
  an art campaign can be handled a couple of different ways.
• 8:15
  It can be set as public where readers on the site can discover it and download,
• 8:21
  or it can be set up as private where only the people who have been given the link are able to
• 8:28
  download. So whether it's public or private, your readers or your art readers would download the book,
• 8:34
  read it, love it, of course. Come back onto the site, post their review.
• 8:39
  - You must have different arc readers.
• 8:42
  (laughing)
• 8:43
  - I'm not feeling as totally misanthropic
• 8:45
  as I was earlier this morning.
• 8:47
  I'm trying to be positive here.
• 8:49
  So, in a perfect world, they all love you.
• 8:51
  Or if they give you a one star,
• 8:53
  it's still good marketing copy.
• 8:55
  And then once they've posted their reviews
• 8:59
  on Goodreads, Bookbubs, the retailers,
• 9:02
  wherever it may be, they upload their link
• 9:06
  so that you can see that it's there.
• 9:08
  And then the system will mark them as complete
• 9:11
  once they've posted where you've requested them.
• 9:14
  So just like any other Arc management system,
• 9:18
  we help to distribute the files.
• 9:21
  We are a place where readers can find new books,
• 9:24
  find new authors to them.
• 9:26
  But the thing that I do love the most
• 9:29
  and why I've been such a loyal user
• 9:32
  and why I'm so happy to be a brand advocate for them
• 9:35
  is the accountability component that's built in
• 9:38
  with people having to upload their links.
• 9:41
  There's no chasing anybody.
• 9:43
  I am not inclined to micromanage any adults.
• 9:47
  I don't have the inclination, I don't have the time,
• 9:51
  I just don't care enough to do it.
• 9:53
  So, it is on your readers to fulfill their part.
• 9:58
  And if it's a book that's just not for them,
• 10:01
  that's okay, they can withdraw.
• 10:03
  They can say thank you, no thank you.
• 10:05
  but you're not sending out any emails saying,
• 10:08
  please remember to send me your links
• 10:10
  or trying to keep a Google sheet
• 10:13
  or an Excel sheet on your team.
• 10:16
  All of that is handled within the platform.
• 10:19
  - Oh wow, that'd be nice.
• 10:20
  So, Nick, that driving nuts,
• 10:22
  you like your Excel sheets though, but still.
• 10:25
  - Yeah, what am I gonna do with my Excel sheets?
• 10:26
  - I, on the other hand,
• 10:28
  - Important. - did not have to do
• 10:29
  with anything with it, so you--
• 10:30
  - Yeah, speaking of micromanaging adults.
• 10:34
  (laughing)
• 10:35
  - So Les, can you tell us,
• 10:36
  what do you think is the biggest misconception
• 10:38
  that authors would have about like trying to get their reviews
• 10:42
  through a platform like Booksprout,
• 10:44
  or what's one of the things
• 10:45
  that people might misunderstand about it?
• 10:47
  - Do you mean on the logistical side of it,
• 10:49
  or do you mean about reviews in general?
• 10:52
  - Reviews in general, like, you know,
• 10:54
  there's kind of stigma, right?
• 10:56
  With, it feels like, 'cause you're not paying,
• 10:59
  indirectly you're paying 'cause you pay Booksprout,
• 11:01
  but you don't pay the reviewer,
• 11:02
  But there's some stigma around that sometimes.
• 11:05
  - There is and there's some misconceptions about it.
• 11:07
  So really, you cannot legally pay for a review.
• 11:12
  You cannot compel somebody to give a review.
• 11:15
  It does have to be a voluntary activity for them.
• 11:19
  - So waterboarding my readers has been a bad idea.
• 11:23
  What you're telling me?
• 11:24
  - What goes on behind the scenes is none of my business.
• 11:27
  - It's one of five star review, that's all I asked for.
• 11:31
  (laughing)
• 11:32
  But it's one of those things where there's a reciprocal
• 11:36
  relationship in place.
• 11:38
  There's an inherent understanding
• 11:41
  that I'm giving you a free book in exchange for a review.
• 11:46
  Again, if you don't care for the book as a reader,
• 11:49
  then you can withdraw from the campaign, you can cancel it.
• 11:52
  There's any number of ways of handling that
• 11:54
  if you come across a book that isn't your cup of tea.
• 11:58
  If it's not, you can also give it a one, two star rating
• 12:00
  as well, those are options.
• 12:02
  But what you are paying for is the service of the platform,
• 12:07
  of being able to have all of your arcs in one place,
• 12:12
  to be able to have the platform disseminate the EPUB or PDF,
• 12:16
  whichever form you're using, and to have that centralized
• 12:20
  location where people are reporting their arcs,
• 12:23
  all of those things.
• 12:24
  So the part that you pay for is the service,
• 12:27
  not the reviews themselves.
• 12:29
  because we can't guarantee how many reviews you're going to get,
• 12:34
  how many downloads you're going to get,
• 12:35
  you know, how good the reviews are going to be.
• 12:38
  No platform, no arc management company,
• 12:42
  none of those can honestly guarantee you those things.
• 12:45
  If they tell you that they can, go the other direction.
• 12:48
  But what if they have that waterboarding feature
• 12:51
  that they can pay extra for?
• 12:53
  We have a dungeon.
• 12:56
  And now a word from this episode sponsor.
• 12:58
  JD Barker, the New York Times bestseller, he's in 24 languages, 150 countries.
• 13:02
  He has film and TV options.
• 13:04
  He's coming to Orthonation to break down how a page turner actually works, not
• 13:08
  instinct, a framework, the architecture behind books that keep readers up to 3 AM.
• 13:13
  Author nation.live.
• 13:14
  Join us November 10th through the 13th in Las Vegas.
• 13:18
  And now let's get back to this week's guest.
• 13:21
  For some of our more, our newer authors out there, and you see this all over
• 13:26
  Facebook, all the social media threads everywhere, the new readers who are looking for, "How do I get more reviews?"
• 13:35
  This seems like this is right up their alley.
• 13:37
  So I guess maybe speak for just a second. Oh, and we all know because we're seasoned professionals, at least two of us are.
• 13:44
  I'm not, but
• 13:46
  but we all know the importance of
• 13:48
  of arc readers and stuff. So
• 13:51
  maybe give us a quick like how this is important for a new author who's coming in right now and
• 13:55
  and what they can use to get those reviews.
• 13:58
  - So, you know, I liken it to any other product
• 14:01
  that, or even service that somebody wants to have,
• 14:05
  they're going to look at the reviews
• 14:07
  to see whether or not it's what they might enjoy, right?
• 14:11
  You might go on Yelp to look at reviews for a restaurant.
• 14:14
  You might go on Angie's List.
• 14:16
  If you're looking for a housekeeper or a handy person,
• 14:21
  it's the same thing with regular retailers.
• 14:23
  you're looking at the reviews to gauge whether or not
• 14:26
  this product is for you.
• 14:28
  And reviews serve two functions.
• 14:31
  They are to draw in the right people,
• 14:33
  but they're also to repel the wrong people.
• 14:36
  So having a review, like in my case,
• 14:40
  I write very explicit content that says
• 14:42
  that there's too much smexy time in there,
• 14:44
  might perfectly repel some people
• 14:47
  who are not going to want grown-up lady books,
• 14:51
  but it will also appeal to others who are like,
• 14:53
  "Yes, I want all this vexie time. Give me all the pages."
• 14:57
  So the reviews are that social proof. The best form of advertising is still word of mouth.
• 15:04
  It is the vetted opinion of one person to another, and that's what reviews are. It's like talking to
• 15:12
  a stranger or talking to a fellow reading friend who's able to tell you about this great book,
• 15:17
  not so great book that they have just read.
• 15:21
  There's always a desire for new authors to figure out
• 15:24
  how do I get that social proof?
• 15:26
  - My mom and my aunt Judith went and left me a review.
• 15:31
  Doesn't that count?
• 15:32
  - Maybe for what you write,
• 15:33
  but the last thing I need is my mommy
• 15:34
  reading any reviews for my books.
• 15:36
  (laughing)
• 15:39
  - That's fair, my mom already judges mine anyways.
• 15:42
  (laughing)
• 15:43
  - I think my ears are on a flame just thinking about it.
• 15:46
  (laughing)
• 15:48
  - Wow, your family reunion would probably be
• 15:50
  a little more pointed, be like, "Oh, there's a laugh."
• 15:54
  (laughing)
• 15:55
  - Yeah, we're European, we don't talk about things like this.
• 15:58
  We just march right on by.
• 16:00
  Like, we're a fresh off the plane.
• 16:02
  We definitely don't talk about the things
• 16:04
  that are in my books.
• 16:05
  So, you know, one of the things that I do tell
• 16:09
  newer readers, you know, from my own experience,
• 16:12
  as well as the professional side of it,
• 16:15
  is that it does take time to build a review team,
• 16:21
  whether it's something that you officially manage yourself
• 16:24
  and you have a Facebook group for it,
• 16:27
  or a Discord or a Patreon, whatever it is, a stack,
• 16:30
  or you do it on a platform like BookSpout,
• 16:33
  it does take time.
• 16:35
  So that first review campaign,
• 16:37
  you may not have tons of downloads,
• 16:40
  and not everybody will always review.
• 16:43
  That's just the reality of it.
• 16:45
  But when you continue on and you run a second campaign,
• 16:49
  you run a third campaign,
• 16:51
  you are building that visibility on a retailer
• 16:54
  as well as within the reviewer community.
• 16:57
  So for example, when I did my first campaign on Book Sprout,
• 17:02
  I think I had maybe five downloads.
• 17:05
  I was nobody, nobody knew me from Eve.
• 17:08
  And then the next one, I had 30 downloads.
• 17:11
  And I was like, oh, okay, well, maybe I've arrived now.
• 17:14
  People know who I am and I got reviews coming in.
• 17:17
  And then by the third campaign,
• 17:19
  I had moved through the different plans on Book Sprout
• 17:23
  and was at the point where I needed the unlimited
• 17:25
  so that I could have as many downloads as I wanted.
• 17:29
  But if I had given up after that first review campaign
• 17:32
  where I only had like five people download,
• 17:35
  I would have been sitting in a corner crying
• 17:37
  and not be 70 books into my career like I am.
• 17:41
  So just know that when you start somewhere new,
• 17:45
  like on a platform, you have to establish yourself.
• 17:48
  You know, it took time to grow followers on Instagram
• 17:51
  and Facebook, takes time to grow followers on BookSpraut
• 17:55
  just like anywhere else.
• 17:56
  So be consistent with it.
• 17:58
  Show up more than once and build your reputation on there
• 18:03
  so that when readers are looking at the books
• 18:05
  and they click on your name or they click on your book,
• 18:08
  they can see, oh, they've had past review,
• 18:11
  campaigns on here. I can get a feel for whether this author is the right one for me. But just
• 18:16
  patience is a virtue. I'm still trying.
• 18:19
  [laughter]
• 18:19
  Nicholas.
• 18:20
  Happy to have found it, but so I'm told.
• 18:22
  Is it all the reviewers selecting the books from the authors, or can the authors go into
• 18:28
  the platform and find reviewers they would like to invite to read their books?
• 18:32
  You can do that. You can also invite your own reviewers over. So if you've got folks
• 18:39
  that are already reviewing for you. You can share the link to the campaign.
• 18:44
  Generally, it is more the readers find the author than the author finds the specific
• 18:49
  readers on this platform. But we've recently done some upgrades and we have created a system with
• 18:57
  more categories to make it easier for readers to discover the books that they're looking for.
• 19:03
  where you've increased the number of filters that we have in order, again, to make it easier for readers.
• 19:09
  Among them, the most recent set of filters is now language choice. So we do have foreign language
• 19:15
  art campaigns that are run on there and we really want to make those more visible and encourage
• 19:21
  authors who are working on translations to run art campaigns by allowing readers to filter those
• 19:27
  languages and say, "Hey, I want to read in French. I want to read in Portuguese. I can
• 19:32
  find arcs here now."
• 19:34
  You got a pretty decent readership growing over there then, so that's nice to know.
• 19:40
  Absolutely. I mean, Booksprout has grown largely by word of mouth over the last few years.
• 19:47
  And that's how I found out about them was an author, author who mentioned the site.
• 19:52
  And I was like, "Oh, that sounds really easy to use. Let me check it out."
• 19:56
  So we're constantly expanding our offerings, working on developing a more robust mobile
• 20:04
  app, a lot of things in the works right now.
• 20:06
  Because nothing makes me feel like a newbie author more than looking at my sales in France
• 20:11
  and my lack of reviews.
• 20:12
  It makes me feel like it reminds me of those way back early days when I was like, "Oh,
• 20:17
  I wish I had a review."
• 20:18
  Yes.
• 20:18
  There's a misperception that reviews don't matter in other markets as much as they do
• 20:26
  in the US or even the UK.
• 20:29
  And while people in other countries
• 20:31
  do treat them differently, people still
• 20:34
  rely on reviews on retailers.
• 20:37
  And I think sometimes we tell ourselves
• 20:39
  that as a way to kind of make us not feel so badly
• 20:42
  if we don't have a large number of reviews
• 20:45
  on a foreign platform or a foreign market.
• 20:48
  But they are still beneficial.
• 20:50
  And being able to run an ARC team on there
• 20:53
  is really beneficial. And one of the features that we're also adding is some native translation.
• 21:00
  So say, for example, you put up a Portuguese book, you don't speak Portuguese, right? But
• 21:07
  the reviews are coming in, and they're in Portuguese. Now the site will be able to, when
• 21:12
  we release this update, will be able to translate that Portuguese review into English. So you
• 21:18
  know what people are saying about your books, even if you don't speak that language.
• 21:22
  So let's just to clarify real fast.
• 21:24
  One, this is a great place if you're a reader, I assume, to kind of come get it.
• 21:28
  But can a ARC or a reviewer actually download the book to their device?
• 21:32
  Are they reading it on the screen?
• 21:34
  Can I put it on my Kindle because I like it better that way?
• 21:37
  Absolutely.
• 21:38
  So you can read any number of ways, actually, depending upon what you are wanting to do.
• 21:45
  So if you want to read in the app, then you can do that.
• 21:51
  Or you can download the book and read it on your preferred device or your preferred app.
• 21:58
  So say you use the Kindle app, then you can download it and be able to read in there.
• 22:03
  If you do PDFs and that's something that the author has offered, then you could read that.
• 22:10
  There's a number of ways for you to access the EPUB file or the appropriate file type
• 22:16
  for your device or your program.
• 22:18
  Brilliant.
• 22:19
  Brilliant.
• 22:19
  So what have you learned with all your experience doing this about timing of releasing these
• 22:25
  arcs like before the release?
• 22:27
  And have you found a pattern that works best?
• 22:30
  So for me personally, I find two weeks is the sweet spot, whether it's a novella or
• 22:37
  it's one of my chunky books.
• 22:39
  You know, my romances run into about 110, 120K,
• 22:46
  so, you know, like 400 page books.
• 22:48
  I think that two weeks is good,
• 22:49
  'cause even with my longer books,
• 22:51
  that's enough time for people to read them.
• 22:55
  I like to think that they start
• 22:56
  and they're so engrossed that life stops for them,
• 22:58
  but even if life doesn't stop for them,
• 23:00
  it's a good time for them to be able to read,
• 23:03
  to be able to post the review on Book Sprout,
• 23:06
  Posted on Goodreads, posted on Bookbub.
• 23:09
  And then it's not so far out that when it goes live on Amazon,
• 23:15
  but they forget to go and post it there.
• 23:17
  Because you can't post a review on Amazon
• 23:20
  until the product is live.
• 23:22
  So if you've set your campaign
• 23:24
  and they're downloading the book four weeks,
• 23:26
  six weeks, six months early,
• 23:29
  it's very easy for them to forget
• 23:31
  because they've gone on and read 100 other books since yours.
• 23:35
  So three weeks, you know, I think is what a lot of people will say is ideal for me.
• 23:41
  I like two weeks.
• 23:42
  I have friends who write very short reads, like the one hour reads, so they'll just
• 23:47
  do a couple of days because they know that folks will read it in an hour.
• 23:52
  But I think it takes a little bit of trial and error to figure out what your
• 23:57
  comfort level is and, and, you know, how your readers behave.
• 24:01
  I'm speaking from the lens of a romance author
• 24:04
  where the readers are voracious and they binge
• 24:07
  and they can consume five, six, seven books in a week.
• 24:10
  Not every genre's reader is like that.
• 24:13
  Some genres, the readers are a little bit slower.
• 24:16
  And so you might need a little bit longer
• 24:18
  if you have a longer book.
• 24:20
  But that's where I generally say start out
• 24:23
  in the two to three week range.
• 24:25
  - Gotcha, gotcha.
• 24:26
  And I guess how many are you looking for?
• 24:29
  I mean, and this will depend on what your sales level is, right?
• 24:33
  So to a certain extent, I mean, there comes a point where it's like, okay,
• 24:36
  I'm giving so many books away here.
• 24:38
  You know, if John Grisham goes on Book Sprout and says, hey, here's a free book.
• 24:41
  He's going to get a couple of people grabbing his free book and it's actually
• 24:45
  going to take away from his sales, right?
• 24:47
  So presumably there's a point at which there's a crossover that makes sense.
• 24:53
  Yeah.
• 24:53
  You know, again, I think that is another one of those that's a preference.
• 24:58
  I have author friends who will give away 200, 500 arc copies.
• 25:05
  I'm stingier than that.
• 25:07
  Like, I like to cap mine between 100 and 125, because I am KU.
• 25:12
  So I say, well, if you didn't get it,
• 25:14
  then you can read it for, quote unquote, free.
• 25:17
  In other words, you can pay me to go and read it on KU.
• 25:21
  If I were a wide author, perhaps my strategy
• 25:24
  would be different.
• 25:26
  But I find that, again, my sweet spot is between 100 and 125.
• 25:33
  I also have cultivated a good ARC team.
• 25:37
  I do make mine generally public so that I can find new readers
• 25:41
  each time.
• 25:42
  But it tends to be the same reliable people who
• 25:45
  get my ARCs who've been reading my books for a long time.
• 25:49
  And there's that urban legend that it takes 50 reviews
• 25:54
  for Amazon to start giving your book visibility.
• 25:58
  I think at some point we all hear that that's not true.
• 26:02
  - It was never true either.
• 26:03
  Some of the things used to be true.
• 26:05
  That was one of the, I see that still going around.
• 26:07
  I'm always like, oh man, that meme that pops around.
• 26:10
  - Exactly.
• 26:11
  And so I think it's one of those things
• 26:13
  where if you have five reviews,
• 26:16
  that's five more than you didn't have
• 26:18
  when you started writing the book.
• 26:19
  If you have 10, 15, 20, 30, 1000 reviews,
• 26:23
  that's still more than you had when you started.
• 26:25
  And it's still visible proof
• 26:28
  that people are reading the book and enjoying the book.
• 26:31
  So even if you have a slow start
• 26:34
  and you only have five reviews on that new release,
• 26:37
  that still steps in the right direction.
• 26:40
  You're building your reputation somewhere like Booksprout
• 26:43
  as well as on the retailers, on social media.
• 26:47
  And so you're propelling yourself forward with each one.
• 26:51
  Each one is a gain.
• 26:53
  And again, sometimes the review isn't always as nice
• 26:56
  as you would like it to be, but find a way to spin it.
• 26:59
  There's usually something in a quote unquote negative review
• 27:03
  that you can actually use as a positive
• 27:05
  to draw in the right readers.
• 27:06
  - It's just when Nick does it on my books,
• 27:08
  it hurts my feelings also.
• 27:10
  (laughing)
• 27:13
  - And now a quick word from this episode sponsor.
• 27:15
  - Hi, this is Jamie Davis, show manager for Author Nation.
• 27:18
  Come to Author Nation and get a dad joke in person from me
• 27:22
  Or try this one on for size.
• 27:25
  How does a space opera author put together
• 27:28
  the perfect birthday party?
• 27:30
  They plan it.
• 27:31
  Now we'll get back to the show.
• 27:33
  - All right, well, one thing I know,
• 27:35
  and you see this again,
• 27:36
  like as we read through these forums
• 27:38
  and stuff that authors really worry about,
• 27:40
  especially when they're discussion of art teams
• 27:42
  or anything that they consider free,
• 27:45
  but it's obviously the freeloaders, piracy,
• 27:47
  or just like readers who are going to claim your book
• 27:49
  and then vanish into the mist.
• 27:52
  How big of a problem is that really?
• 27:54
  I know what I think, but we'll ask you and what kind of safeguards or best
• 27:58
  practices are out there and is there anything Book Sprout does that kind of
• 28:01
  counters any of that problem?
• 28:03
  Yes, absolutely.
• 28:04
  So it is a real problem.
• 28:06
  You know, we do have people who might have lost their integrity somewhere
• 28:11
  along the line, if they ever had any to begin with, and they pirate your books.
• 28:15
  Like I remember the first time I found my books being pirated, there was part
• 28:19
  who was like, "Oh my God, I've arrived!"
• 28:21
  It is a real thing.
• 28:23
  We have to accept that within our line of work.
• 28:26
  But on BookSpraut, there are definitely guardrails that are put into place.
• 28:31
  There's watermarking on there.
• 28:33
  There's the ability to report if you've found a pirate.
• 28:37
  There's also limitations that you can place within your campaign
• 28:42
  as to how many books from you a reviewer can get.
• 28:46
  So I personally set my review campaigns up where if they have an outstanding arc from
• 28:53
  me, they cannot get another one until they've completed that first one.
• 28:58
  And if I see that there's somebody who's downloaded and withdrawn, you know, two campaigns in
• 29:04
  a row and they say something like personal reasons or not my kind of story, then I'll
• 29:11
  block them and they can no longer get books from me on that platform.
• 29:15
  And that's, you know, a protection that I can put in place.
• 29:18
  If you're having issues and you think that there's somebody who is a bad actor, if you
• 29:24
  will, absolutely message our support team.
• 29:27
  They're very, very proactive about this.
• 29:30
  They take it very seriously, whether it's piracy or a reader who's not behaving well,
• 29:37
  whatever it may be, if you have a problem, they're very proactive about responding and
• 29:43
  finding solutions for you.
• 29:45
  There's also beyond your own campaign and limiting them of not getting another download
• 29:52
  once they've finished your previous one.
• 29:54
  You can also limit it so that if they've hit a site-wide download maximum, they can't
• 30:00
  get the book.
• 30:01
  So there's a lot of steps in there that you can take, things that you can click on to
• 30:07
  either really expand the reach of your campaign to any and everybody or to really tailor it
• 30:13
  to the specific people that you want.
• 30:16
  There's even an option for just the top vetted reviewers.
• 30:21
  So the people that the Booksprout team has looked at
• 30:25
  and checked out their reviews and their profile,
• 30:28
  you can set it so only those people have access
• 30:30
  to seeing your campaign.
• 30:32
  Now that really shrinks the pool down significantly,
• 30:36
  but that's an example of options that you have.
• 30:40
  - Gotcha.
• 30:41
  So how much is Booksprout?
• 30:42
  There's different tiers, right?
• 30:43
  Explain that a little bit.
• 30:45
  - There are.
• 30:45
  So depending upon where you're at and what you need,
• 30:50
  we'll kind of determine where you're going to be as an author.
• 30:55
  So the very first tier is the growing author,
• 31:00
  and that's $9 a month.
• 31:02
  You can have one active campaign at a time.
• 31:05
  You can have up to 25 copies downloaded.
• 31:08
  When you bump up to the pro author, that's 19 a month,
• 31:12
  and you can have three active campaigns,
• 31:15
  up to 50 copies downloaded,
• 31:17
  you start to get some extra features,
• 31:19
  like being able to do audiobook campaigns,
• 31:23
  and then there's the best-selling author platform,
• 31:25
  which is 29 a month.
• 31:27
  That's the plan that I've been on
• 31:28
  for going on eight years now.
• 31:30
  And you can have unlimited review campaigns,
• 31:33
  unlimited copies available.
• 31:35
  You can do endless review campaigns.
• 31:38
  You can do audiobook, you can have a virtual assistant
• 31:43
  be added to your account, any number of things.
• 31:47
  And then if you are a publisher
• 31:49
  or you run a review service, like a PR company,
• 31:53
  there is an option for them as well.
• 31:56
  And that's 59 a month.
• 31:58
  And you can pay annually, you can pay monthly,
• 32:01
  depending on what suits you.
• 32:04
  if you pay yearly or annually, you save about 20%.
• 32:09
  Every year I do an audit and I look at what my subscriptions
• 32:13
  are and where I can trim the fat.
• 32:15
  Is there something that I signed up for
• 32:18
  that I'm just not using as much as I should
• 32:21
  and can I let it go?
• 32:23
  And every year, B is at the top of the alphabet,
• 32:26
  I skip right past Book Sprout
• 32:27
  and find whatever starts and see because I know,
• 32:30
  even before I became part of the team, there was no way.
• 32:33
  I was ever going to cut out Book Sprout.
• 32:36
  It truly has been an integral part of me growing
• 32:40
  both my Celeste and my Sabine pen names
• 32:42
  because I didn't know anybody, I didn't know up from down,
• 32:46
  I found readers for Celeste that way
• 32:50
  and it helped watch my career.
• 32:52
  I moved from historical over to mafia
• 32:55
  and yes, some readers came from historical because it's me
• 32:58
  but I needed a brand new crop of readers for mafia
• 33:02
  And people found me there.
• 33:04
  So it has been a very important part of my, my business plan.
• 33:09
  It has helped me get where I am.
• 33:11
  Well, then let me lead in this, this last question here real quick, but if you could
• 33:15
  give one, no nonsense book sprout strategy for these newer authors and maybe one for
• 33:21
  some seasoned authors who are also co-hosts on podcasts, you know, that kind of thing.
• 33:26
  What would those two look like?
• 33:27
  How would they differ?
• 33:28
  I would say that the first thing is commit to using a system that's proven and works
• 33:34
  and that saves you time.
• 33:36
  Like we're all adults of some shape or form, Nick.
• 33:43
  So use a system that allows you to put in accountability steps for them so that you
• 33:50
  can get on with the other things that you need to do.
• 33:54
  utilize the categories that you can enter your book into,
• 33:58
  you can enter them into three.
• 34:00
  There's more filters that are being put into place
• 34:03
  and really maximize your opportunity
• 34:07
  to connect with your readers,
• 34:09
  whether they are people who already are on your Arc team
• 34:14
  or are folks who are yet to find you
• 34:16
  but will on Book Sprout,
• 34:18
  just maximize that opportunity for visibility
• 34:22
  and to be able to connect and build those relationships
• 34:26
  with readers, even if you never message with them,
• 34:29
  you never talk to them individually,
• 34:31
  you're still communicating with them,
• 34:33
  you're still building a rapport,
• 34:35
  you're still building a fandom,
• 34:37
  you're doing all of those things
• 34:38
  with considerably less effort and time committed to it
• 34:43
  than you would if you were trying to send out
• 34:46
  your arcs a different way.
• 34:48
  - That's a great background on BooksRoute.
• 34:50
  Thank you so much.
• 34:51
  You've got me really curious now.
• 34:53
  I've looked at it before, but you're convincing me.
• 34:56
  You're very convincing Celeste, so well done.
• 34:58
  - She should be in marketing for them.
• 35:00
  - No kidding.
• 35:01
  - They should just throw it out there, you know?
• 35:03
  Like that's it though.
• 35:04
  You should consider asking them about that maybe, so.
• 35:06
  - Yeah, well, you know I was an educator for 15 years
• 35:09
  and I've always said that that's a consummate salesperson
• 35:12
  because I was selling a service and a product
• 35:14
  that no consumer wanted to buy.
• 35:16
  So if I could convince them to learn,
• 35:19
  And I hopefully can convince adults to buy books.
• 35:21
  - Brilliant, brilliant.
• 35:22
  All right, well, we'll put the link in the show notes.
• 35:24
  It's booksprout.co, I believe.
• 35:27
  And you can find them there.
• 35:28
  And Celeste, thank you so much for joining us again.
• 35:31
  - Thanks, guys.
• 35:31
  I appreciate it too.
• 35:33
  (upbeat music)
• 35:38
  - A big thank you to Celeste Barclay.
• 35:40
  She is a sweetheart.
• 35:41
  It's always fun chatting with Celeste.
• 35:43
  - She's always fun to have her on here.
• 35:44
  Yeah, she's a, I enjoy talking to her everywhere we go.
• 35:47
  So she's a--
• 35:49
  And I'm curious. I've looked over there before at Booksprout, and I've never pulled the trigger on it.
• 35:54
  I think I'm gonna take a much more serious look and maybe give it a try for a release coming up.
• 36:00
  It might be worth doing. I know that like ARC teams are, it's always, it's so necessary,
• 36:07
  but man, managing them can be a chore because, you know, I've had mine for a while. And this last
• 36:13
  book I didn't even send an ARC out for because the last couple of times I've struggled getting
• 36:19
  They've I think they've kind of started to fall off. So I need to either rebuild that team anyway.
• 36:23
  And if I'm going to do that, I might as well go through Brooks sprout and see if I can't get a better better reviews on stuff.
• 36:28
  I don't know. It's definitely worth checking out.
• 36:30
  I'm pretty fortunate. I have a solid beta group and a great sort of out team. Neither are huge, but both are really kind of easy to manage and low maintenance kind of thing.
• 36:41
  But it you can always have more reviews in that first week of release that can help things.
• 36:48
  Well, and I think it's also like the other side of it is as, you know, as we, you know, you and I've gotten busy and busy and we talked
• 36:55
  about this earlier, like it gets to be like we've got pile more stuff on. This is one less task that you have to do. I mean, as far as
• 37:02
  like really managing it, you still got to do stuff for it, obviously, like everything else, but maybe it's a little bit more if you
• 37:08
  have to manage your team, this is a little bit better way of doing it. And you just kind of about think about is this value $29
• 37:15
  whatever it is, is that worth my time that I'm that would be spending doing anything else?
• 37:20
  So I think it's definitely worth checking out and I'll be looking at it. So, all right. Big
• 37:24
  thanks to our Patreon supporters. Thank you so much. If you feel you get value from the show,
• 37:28
  we would really appreciate it if you dropped in on Patreon. The Two Authors podcast is where
• 37:33
  you'll find us. And for a very, very small, nominal amount of money a month, you can support the show
• 37:39
  and get tons of extra bonus stuff. Like the bonus question, we just asked Celeste Barclay
• 37:45
  that you can find on Patreon.
• 37:48
  - Totally, yes.
• 37:49
  Some of that stuff is a really good question.
• 37:52
  We get way save that one for the last.
• 37:54
  So, you know, we will make sure it's a banger.
• 37:56
  That's where you get the bangers.
• 37:58
  - You get the bangers.
• 37:59
  - All right, and big thanks to Valom as always
• 38:02
  for supporting the show.
• 38:03
  I love you guys.
• 38:04
  All these links are in the show notes, of course,
• 38:06
  as well as Booksprout and through in a link
• 38:09
  for celesbarkley.com.
• 38:11
  - Oh, you should, yes.
• 38:12
  Some heresy.
• 38:13
  And if you want to try Velom, go to tryvelom.com/twoauthors.
• 38:19
  And then they know we sent you.
• 38:21
  And we really appreciate it and they do too.
• 38:23
  So until next time, be cool to each other.
• 38:26
  - Fair wins and follow and see.
• 38:28
  - You've been listening to the Two Authors podcast
• 38:31
  with Nicholas Harvey and Douglas Pratt.
• 38:34
  Subscribe on your favorite platform
• 38:36
  for new shows coming every week.
• 38:38
  (upbeat music)