Latest / Pit Talk / Damon Hill on his F1 career, winning the title and the human spirit

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Damon Hill on his F1 career, winning the title and the human spirit · Pit Talk

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Pitt Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.
0:09
Speaker 1: On today's episode, I catch up with 1996 Formula One
0:12
Speaker 1: World Champion, Damon Hill. Damon was in Melbourne promoting his
0:16
Speaker 1: biographical documentary film, Hill, a study in the story of
0:19
Speaker 1: his journey to becoming the first son of a world
0:22
Speaker 1: champion to win the title. It's a documentary years in
0:25
Speaker 1: the making and it's out now as part of the
0:27
Speaker 1: British Film Festival with screenings around the country. We talk
0:30
Speaker 1: about his fateful decision to switch from motorcycle racing to cars,
0:34
Speaker 1: the responsibility he felt to step up at Williams after
0:36
Speaker 1: the death of his teammate Ayrton Senna, and then finally
0:40
Speaker 1: achieving his career's ambition of winning the world title. Just
0:43
Speaker 1: weeks after being told by Williams he'd be sacked regardless
0:47
Speaker 1: of the outcome. But I started by asking him how
0:49
Speaker 1: his eponymous film came about.
0:54
Speaker 2: Well, I worked with Sky on F1 and the main
0:58
Speaker 2: link guy, I forget what he called him, but I
1:01
Speaker 2: call him Simon Laserby. So he worked with me for
1:06
Speaker 2: a long time and then he was talking about wanting
1:08
Speaker 2: to do more around sports and documentaries and stuff. So
1:13
Speaker 2: we concluded that my story had legs. Anyway, from the
1:17
Speaker 2: time we conceived of it to the time it got released,
1:20
Speaker 2: it was seven years ago. So it was a really
1:23
Speaker 2: arduous process. So I've got to thank Simon and also
1:27
Speaker 2: Alex for being so patient. Alex Holmes was the director
1:30
Speaker 2: who really fleshed out what he saw as being the story,
1:33
Speaker 2: the key elements in the documentary, which is a story
1:37
Speaker 2: about two people who had children and one of them
1:41
Speaker 2: was a racing driver.
1:43
Speaker 3: Sort of that's it, really. Well, I mean, you've summed
1:45
Speaker 3: it up very well, I guess. That's a good selling point.
1:48
Speaker 3: You've already written an autobiography before this, around about a
1:51
Speaker 3: decade ago, I think it came out. Now done the
1:53
Speaker 3: film version. So I guess they almost ran into one
1:55
Speaker 3: another by the sounds of it. But this would make
1:58
Speaker 3: it really quite a self-reflective period of your life, I suppose.
2:01
Speaker 3: Are you predisposed to thinking back on things and reflecting?
2:04
Speaker 2: Well, it is about that. Yeah, there's definitely a strong
2:07
Speaker 2: element of that because the part of the story I
2:08
Speaker 2: didn't include is, of course, the fact that my dad
2:11
Speaker 2: was a racing driver, a famous person, and I lost...
2:16
Speaker 2: My dad, when I was 15, he died after just
2:19
Speaker 2: having retired. So there's a whole backstory to my career.
2:24
Speaker 2: And the question I sort of was asking all the
2:25
Speaker 2: time was why, after having felt like I had no
2:29
Speaker 2: interest in cars at all, to start with, I didn't
2:33
Speaker 2: show any inclination to become a racing driver, I suddenly
2:37
Speaker 2: decided I'd have a go. But it wasn't until I
2:39
Speaker 2: was about 24... that I started racing cars. And it
2:43
Speaker 2: took me until I was 32 to get a full-time
2:45
Speaker 2: drive in Formula One. But the story is, what a
2:48
Speaker 2: drive I got. You know, I replaced Nigel Mansell and
2:52
Speaker 2: I drove for the Williams team and almost went straight
2:54
Speaker 2: into a winning competitive car in Formula One. And the
3:00
Speaker 2: probability of all that happening, the way it happened is
3:03
Speaker 2: so bizarre and so remote that it's kind of astonishing.
3:07
Speaker 2: I can't hardly believe it myself sometimes when I think
3:10
Speaker 2: about how it all unfolded.
3:12
Speaker 3: So the film starts with your relationship with your father,
3:15
Speaker 3: I guess, his successes originally, and then moving into obviously
3:17
Speaker 3: your own career. And you mentioned towards the end of it,
3:19
Speaker 3: and you have before, that it was a way to
3:21
Speaker 3: feel a little bit more connected to him, obviously, after
3:23
Speaker 3: he died. What is your relationship, I guess, with the
3:26
Speaker 3: memory of your father now?
3:27
Speaker 2: It wasn't done because of that, but it did, of course,
3:30
Speaker 2: occur to me as I was racing cars, well, this
3:33
Speaker 2: is what my dad did, you know, so I, and
3:36
Speaker 2: I kind of, had this memory of my dad and
3:40
Speaker 2: experience of my father because he ran his own race
3:42
Speaker 2: team and I was starting to get a little bit
3:43
Speaker 2: involved in it so I knew his way of working
3:46
Speaker 2: and I kind of couldn't really get away from the
3:49
Speaker 2: fact that I was conscious of um this bond let's
3:55
Speaker 2: say that was being relived or created out of out
4:00
Speaker 2: of racing without him being there so you know I
4:05
Speaker 2: um I sort of carried this legacy within myself of
4:10
Speaker 2: my father through racing career.
4:13
Speaker 3: It was at that moment when you moved from motorcycling
4:17
Speaker 3: to car racing and taking that up more seriously. I
4:19
Speaker 3: think you wrote in the book that it sort of
4:20
Speaker 3: came via suggestion to your mother, is that right? That
4:23
Speaker 3: there'd be a place at the Winfield Racing School, that
4:26
Speaker 3: that's something you could take up. It seems like you
4:28
Speaker 3: did that quite suddenly, almost accepted it on a whim.
4:30
Speaker 3: Were you surprised how ready you were to move in
4:32
Speaker 3: that direction?
4:34
Speaker 2: I think I was surprised when I had a go
4:36
Speaker 2: at car racing and I found I was quite good
4:38
Speaker 2: that was really the big surprise because I just had
4:40
Speaker 2: no interest as I said my love was motorbikes and
4:43
Speaker 2: I was doing quite well on bikes at that time
4:46
Speaker 2: but not for it didn't come easily and eventually I
4:49
Speaker 2: started to find my winning ways in cars but at
4:52
Speaker 2: that exact moment I was getting an opportunity to have
4:56
Speaker 2: a go at cars and see how I got on
4:58
Speaker 2: and I was quite surprised that I did didn't do
5:02
Speaker 2: too badly. So I kind of thought, well, maybe there's
5:06
Speaker 2: a better career path here long-term in car racing than
5:09
Speaker 2: I thought. And I can give it a go and
5:13
Speaker 2: see how I get on. But if you've got a
5:14
Speaker 2: competitive spirit, you want to succeed at whatever you do.
5:18
Speaker 2: So I had to turn this opportunity into a success story,
5:24
Speaker 2: which I think I managed to do.
5:26
Speaker 3: Just a little bit. I mean, considering you came relatively
5:29
Speaker 3: late to the four-wheel world, And you thought you'd sort
5:32
Speaker 3: of set yourself up in a completely different direction. It's
5:36
Speaker 3: difficult to ask this question, I guess, because obviously you succeeded.
5:38
Speaker 3: You won the world title. You're here talking about it all.
5:41
Speaker 3: But do you consider your racing career almost as a
5:43
Speaker 3: little bit accidental, considering how suddenly it happened?
5:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's one way of looking
5:46
Speaker 2: at it. I mean, I'm just thinking, if you were
5:49
Speaker 2: to say, okay, we've got Kimi Antonelli, and we're going
5:53
Speaker 2: to say to Kimi, you're not allowed to drive go-karts
5:55
Speaker 2: or anything like that, and you've got to do You've
5:57
Speaker 2: got to have quite a few years in the junior
6:00
Speaker 2: formula and stuff. And you're not allowed to get into
6:01
Speaker 2: Formula One until you're 32. You know, there's 12 years
6:05
Speaker 2: at least wasted. And anyway, he's been karting since he was,
6:10
Speaker 2: you know, five years old, as have all of them.
6:12
Speaker 2: You know, they've all wanted to be racing drivers since
6:14
Speaker 2: they were babies almost. And so that wasn't my story. So,
6:18
Speaker 2: you know, how the hell it all happened, you have
6:21
Speaker 2: to say there's a degree of, of luck but then
6:24
Speaker 2: of course I was always in the background pushing it
6:27
Speaker 2: forward and wanting it to succeed so you know it
6:30
Speaker 2: didn't just come to me.
6:32
Speaker 3: There's an interesting thread that I sort of I guess
6:34
Speaker 3: hadn't acknowledged before watching the film particularly in those early
6:36
Speaker 3: years of your career where obviously there's a competitive drive
6:39
Speaker 3: and that determination that's very much part of it but
6:41
Speaker 3: Also a really great sense of responsibility, it seems like.
6:44
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting sort of in that first
6:46
Speaker 3: year after your son was born, I think it was
6:47
Speaker 3: your first season, if I'm getting my timeline right, you
6:49
Speaker 3: spoke about wanting to find that extra level as a
6:51
Speaker 3: responsibility to your now growing family.
6:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we had our first child was born with
6:56
Speaker 2: Down syndrome. So Oliver is now 37 and he's fit
7:01
Speaker 2: and well. But when you imagine we're youngish parents and
7:07
Speaker 2: we discover we've got a child with disabilities. And that was,
7:11
Speaker 2: that came at a time when I'd also gotten very
7:14
Speaker 2: few options. My career, my path had kind of fizzled
7:17
Speaker 2: out a little bit. And so, you know, I went
7:20
Speaker 2: through a period of, I had an opportunity to, if
7:24
Speaker 2: you like, go and get a regular job and a
7:27
Speaker 2: steady income, or I could keep on trying one more
7:30
Speaker 2: time to succeed. So Oliver's arrival, I think, was just
7:35
Speaker 2: being a parent, me and Georgie, having a child and
7:39
Speaker 2: that responsibility, I think, made me more focused and made
7:42
Speaker 2: me more professional.
7:43
Speaker 3: So how do you reflect on that? Maybe it's not
7:45
Speaker 3: a truism, or it's not true anyway, but that idea
7:47
Speaker 3: that having children makes drivers slower.
7:49
Speaker 2: Yes, Enzo said that a driver with children is a
7:53
Speaker 2: second-to-lap slur, but I think Jack Brabham had a whole
7:56
Speaker 2: family and he won three world championships. And my dad
8:00
Speaker 2: had children and Jackie Stewart had children and there were
8:03
Speaker 2: those that didn't. And I think that you have to
8:06
Speaker 2: say that My view of it is actually that I
8:13
Speaker 2: think that with some exceptions, I think it made drivers, again,
8:17
Speaker 2: I would say it made them more responsible to themselves.
8:22
Speaker 2: Maybe the survival instinct and the need to be a
8:26
Speaker 2: little bit more circumspect, but at the same time, that
8:29
Speaker 2: meant that you ensured you got to the finish. You
8:32
Speaker 2: weren't quite so wild. And maybe that's a good thing
8:36
Speaker 2: in the sport. You do have to get to the
8:37
Speaker 2: end of the race. in one piece as well.
8:40
Speaker 3: The responsibility element that I also extended through to the team,
8:43
Speaker 3: particularly in 1994 after Aiden Senna's death, that idea that
8:47
Speaker 3: you need to step up and give obviously the team
8:48
Speaker 3: something to rally around, which is completely understandable. Was there
8:52
Speaker 3: a moment when that it stopped or it felt at
8:55
Speaker 3: that point, it felt like you were racing for external reasons?
8:57
Speaker 3: Obviously you had your own motivation again, but you were
8:59
Speaker 3: drawing motivation from external factors. Was there a moment when
9:02
Speaker 3: you felt like you were really just racing for yourself
9:04
Speaker 3: through that career? Yeah.
9:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I don't think I was always racing for myself.
9:08
Speaker 2: There's no way of escaping the legacy of having been
9:13
Speaker 2: in Formula One when I was young with my dad
9:16
Speaker 2: racing and his career. So I was always an addition
9:20
Speaker 2: to his career, I think. Having won the world championship,
9:23
Speaker 2: being the first ever son of a previous world champion
9:26
Speaker 2: is my kind of tagline. That's what they kind of
9:30
Speaker 2: describe me as. So there's no way of being separate.
9:35
Speaker 2: I would say that drivers who've got no legacy or
9:39
Speaker 2: no previous involvement in the sport. I mean, Max's dad
9:42
Speaker 2: raced in Formula One. So Jos was a racing driver.
9:47
Speaker 2: But he's not referred to as the son of Jos
9:50
Speaker 2: Verstappen so much. But there was a sort of interest.
9:56
Speaker 2: But then I do think I'm... carved my own path
10:01
Speaker 2: but maybe I wanted to I used the word homage
10:07
Speaker 2: just a moment ago but you know the homage it
10:10
Speaker 2: was a kind of homage I dedicated my first ever
10:13
Speaker 2: race win to hills past present and future and I
10:16
Speaker 2: really meant it you know I wanted that to be
10:20
Speaker 2: Because after my dad's accident, everything was destroyed in a way.
10:25
Speaker 2: So the kind of phoenix rising thing, I think, was
10:28
Speaker 2: a concept which I was aware of and wanted other
10:32
Speaker 2: people to understand, maybe.
10:34
Speaker 3: There's also a sense, of course, in the title-winning year
10:37
Speaker 3: of betrayal of some description, I guess. I think in
10:40
Speaker 3: the film, you really use the word stoicism to describe
10:42
Speaker 3: not only Williams, but your approach, a little bit of
10:44
Speaker 3: a British approach generally to motorsport, but this idea that
10:47
Speaker 3: the team moved on almost quite unemotionally while you were
10:49
Speaker 3: still contending for the title. How do you reflect on
10:52
Speaker 3: that time now? And I guess your relationship with the
10:54
Speaker 3: Williams team and brand, because for a lot of people, obviously,
10:57
Speaker 3: that's going to forever be the identification of it, but
10:59
Speaker 3: it was quite a messy season, obviously.
11:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, Frank, they were the top team
11:06
Speaker 2: at the time anyway, so they had a position of,
11:10
Speaker 2: you know, they were established teams, as the best team
11:15
Speaker 2: in Formula One. So they were used to being running
11:16
Speaker 2: at the front. So I think that they, you know,
11:19
Speaker 2: a lot was expected of you. You have to come
11:21
Speaker 2: up to their standard and their status. And it's difficult
11:25
Speaker 2: when you start off as an understudy, a test driver,
11:30
Speaker 2: and then you're trying to re-establish yourself or establish yourself
11:34
Speaker 2: as being the same caliber of drivers as Mansell, Prost
11:39
Speaker 2: and Senna. So I'm not sure I achieved that, but.
11:45
Speaker 2: I liked the fact that they were tough. I liked
11:47
Speaker 2: the fact that they were not going to give you
11:50
Speaker 2: any flannel.
11:52
Speaker 3: So quite apart from the fact that obviously the world
11:54
Speaker 3: championship was the culmination, how did those years against such
11:59
Speaker 3: greats of the sport as well, who you ultimately joined
12:01
Speaker 3: with winning a world title, shape you as a person?
12:04
Speaker 2: Well, I think it did shape me. I think that
12:07
Speaker 2: I approach racing from the point of view I want
12:09
Speaker 2: to fight. I wanted to find out how far I
12:12
Speaker 2: could go and how good I could get or whether
12:15
Speaker 2: I was good enough. And you only find out by
12:18
Speaker 2: going up against the best opponents. You know, if you
12:20
Speaker 2: want to find out how good you are as a
12:21
Speaker 2: tennis player, you go up against whoever the best tennis
12:24
Speaker 2: player is at the moment, I don't know. But yeah,
12:27
Speaker 2: so that's your measure. And if you can beat those people,
12:30
Speaker 2: so racing against Michael Schumacher, I found out what it
12:34
Speaker 2: was like to race against the best, one of the
12:36
Speaker 2: most talented ever and the fastest ever. So, You know,
12:40
Speaker 2: I can feel proud that I managed to beat him.
12:43
Speaker 2: I got a few, you know, notches on the, what's
12:49
Speaker 2: the expression? I mean, chips off. Basically, I beat him
12:53
Speaker 2: a couple of times. Not all the time and not regularly,
12:55
Speaker 2: but at least I raced up there with him sometimes.
12:57
Speaker 2: And I feel pretty impressed by that. So considering where
13:02
Speaker 2: I started and how long it took me to get there.
13:06
Speaker 3: There's an element of this I found myself thinking towards
13:08
Speaker 3: the end of the film as well, or there are
13:09
Speaker 3: certain moments of it that felt quite spiritual, I suppose,
13:13
Speaker 3: centre in Japan in the wet, and also speaking about
13:16
Speaker 3: your father on the podium when you'd won the title.
13:18
Speaker 3: Do you consider the journey somehow spiritual as much as
13:21
Speaker 3: it was about grit and determination?
13:23
Speaker 2: I do. I mean, I believe that there is such
13:26
Speaker 2: a thing as a kind of journey that we all
13:32
Speaker 2: go on, and everybody does in their own life, and
13:34
Speaker 2: there is some reason. to it it's not just you
13:38
Speaker 2: know um a kind of random meaningless experience so i
13:42
Speaker 2: think that these tests that i mean don't forget every
13:44
Speaker 2: and i'm conscious that all these tests i put myself
13:47
Speaker 2: myself through were completely fabricated and they're not they know
13:50
Speaker 2: i didn't have to do it i could have just
13:52
Speaker 2: been had a kind of reasonably relaxed life but um
13:56
Speaker 2: you know i do think we get better by press
13:58
Speaker 2: by pushing ourselves but whatever that happens to be you
14:01
Speaker 2: know the the the realization of what you're capable of
14:06
Speaker 2: can only be achieved through taking on ridiculous challenges, perhaps.
14:11
Speaker 2: And maybe that says a lot about the human spirit.
14:14
Speaker 2: And getting back to what you were saying, is there
14:18
Speaker 2: a spiritual thing? I think we are spiritual beings. I
14:21
Speaker 2: think that if you think this is all just a
14:26
Speaker 2: kind of waste of time, then that's rather depressing.
14:31
Speaker 3: I think that's fair enough. And to come back to
14:33
Speaker 3: where we started, this sort of 10 years, I suppose,
14:35
Speaker 3: or long-term project of reflecting on the career through the book,
14:38
Speaker 3: through the film, you did achieve an awful lot, obviously.
14:41
Speaker 3: Over the process of putting this together, do you look
14:43
Speaker 3: back and find yourself having any regrets about the way
14:45
Speaker 3: you dealt with particularly your career?
14:47
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think regrets... I don't think I have
14:52
Speaker 2: any regrets about anything in there at all. I mean, simply,
14:58
Speaker 2: you know, I think that... my own side. No, I
15:04
Speaker 2: don't have, and there's no regrets. I mean, you can
15:05
Speaker 2: look back and go, if I'd done this, or if
15:07
Speaker 2: this had happened, then it could have been different. Well,
15:09
Speaker 2: you don't know what could have happened. There's all sorts
15:14
Speaker 2: of outcomes that are unforeseen. And so I feel pretty
15:19
Speaker 2: lucky that I got the outcome I got.
15:22
Speaker 3: Before we move to a couple of more contemporary matters,
15:24
Speaker 3: I want to look back at your relationships and pick
15:25
Speaker 3: your particular elements of your career, I guess. One of
15:27
Speaker 3: them being Australia, quite a few significant chapters there. The
15:31
Speaker 3: incident with Michael, then winning in Adelaide before your title
15:35
Speaker 3: winning year and then winning in Melbourne against Jacques, covered
15:38
Speaker 3: in oil. Oh, he was covered in oil. No, you
15:39
Speaker 3: were covered in oil. No, I was covered in oil.
15:41
Speaker 3: So I beg your pardon.
15:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was leaking all over.
15:43
Speaker 3: Yes, yes. I'm kind of confused there. Two teams in
15:46
Speaker 3: the same car, obviously. But Australia, obviously, highs and lows
15:48
Speaker 3: of your career. When you come back here, particularly in
15:51
Speaker 3: the years afterwards, I guess now it's all a little
15:52
Speaker 3: bit in the past.
15:54
Speaker 2: No, there was never any lows. I don't understand this
15:56
Speaker 2: low business. Where does that come from? I mean, you
15:59
Speaker 2: turn up, you have a go in a Formula One car,
16:02
Speaker 2: a new race, and maybe I didn't win the championship
16:05
Speaker 2: in 1994, but everyone remembers that race, and it was drama.
16:08
Speaker 2: And I didn't let myself down, I don't think. So
16:15
Speaker 2: I'm not disillusioned by that. And I won in the
16:20
Speaker 2: last Adelaide Grand Prix. So it's all been good.
16:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean, there's the stoicism, but also quite
16:27
Speaker 3: a good outlook. And the other element I think that
16:29
Speaker 3: a lot of people will feel some connection to, particularly
16:32
Speaker 3: as viewership here grew with television and all sorts, He's
16:35
Speaker 3: a connection you had with Murray Walker for so many
16:37
Speaker 3: people who was the channel to Formula One through television.
16:41
Speaker 3: And of course, he's iconic commentary when you did win
16:43
Speaker 3: the world title. Just tell us a little bit about
16:45
Speaker 3: that relationship you developed with him and what he meant
16:47
Speaker 3: to you as.
16:48
Speaker 2: Well, it was developed through the screen and the magic
16:52
Speaker 2: of television because actually I was driving. So whilst he
16:55
Speaker 2: was talking, I was actually busy. And only occasionally did
16:58
Speaker 2: I hear exactly what he was saying. Obviously, I watched
17:01
Speaker 2: them later and I'm very aware of it. the famous
17:03
Speaker 2: lines that he uttered when I crossed the line and
17:05
Speaker 2: all that stuff. But, you know, he was also the
17:09
Speaker 2: voice of motorsport before I even thought about car racing.
17:13
Speaker 2: I remember listening to him commentate on motocross in about
17:17
Speaker 2: the 1960s, you know, watching the black and white TV
17:20
Speaker 2: and the picture was all grainy and there was Murray Walker,
17:22
Speaker 2: you know, standing in a cold field somewhere with an anorak.
17:26
Speaker 2: And it's amazing, you know. And so he had that charm.
17:32
Speaker 2: But it adds to the magic. And so I was
17:35
Speaker 2: very lucky to have him commentate on mine. my winning
17:38
Speaker 2: the world championship.
17:39
Speaker 3: It struck me looking back through some of those moments
17:41
Speaker 3: in your career. In fact, the first and the last
17:43
Speaker 3: chapter at Williams with some interesting parallels with today when
17:46
Speaker 3: you arrived, partnered with Alain Prost, you were the young
17:48
Speaker 3: guy and you took great confidence from those moments when
17:51
Speaker 3: you were faster than him and he was really there
17:52
Speaker 3: to win that title and then leave. And then towards
17:54
Speaker 3: the end of the career, it was obviously Jacques Villeneuve
17:56
Speaker 3: who pressed you quite hard towards the end of the career.
17:58
Speaker 3: It feels not dissimilar to Antonelli and George Russell at
18:01
Speaker 3: the moment at Mercedes where you I guess George probably,
18:04
Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean, I'm putting words in his mouth,
18:06
Speaker 3: probably expected a little bit of an easier time of
18:08
Speaker 3: things judging by last year, but the young guys come
18:10
Speaker 3: in and push it really hard.
18:11
Speaker 2: We thought George would, you know, would walk it. Nobody's
18:16
Speaker 2: expected Kimi to be quite so good so early, and
18:20
Speaker 2: he's just been amazing. So we're all a bit, you know,
18:24
Speaker 2: taken aback by that. But, you know, this happens in sport.
18:28
Speaker 2: People turn up and they suddenly show that they're just
18:30
Speaker 2: a lot better than everyone else in sport. And on
18:33
Speaker 2: current information, as far as we can tell, Kimi Antonelli
18:36
Speaker 2: is a lot better than everyone else and really phenomenal.
18:40
Speaker 3: Is it easy to be the young guy without the
18:42
Speaker 3: expectations of having been on both sides of the fence?
18:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, when you're young, you don't have any
18:47
Speaker 2: of the considerations that you've acquired over years of how
18:53
Speaker 2: things could be. Yeah. I mean, I'm interested to hear
18:59
Speaker 2: you say that I was the young guy in F1
19:00
Speaker 2: because I didn't.
19:01
Speaker 3: Get to F1 until I was 33 or something, 32.
19:04
Speaker 3: I was the old guy.
19:06
Speaker 2: But by the time I finished, I was almost 20
19:08
Speaker 2: years older than the young guys that were coming in.
19:11
Speaker 2: And I remember thinking to myself, do you know, I
19:13
Speaker 2: wouldn't go to a party with people who are 20
19:16
Speaker 2: years younger than me. That would be weird. So I
19:18
Speaker 2: did start to feel like a I was out of place.
19:21
Speaker 2: I'm very impressed by Fernando Alonso still cracking on.
19:24
Speaker 3: It's keeping the spirit alive, I guess.
19:26
Speaker 2: But, you know, with youth, you have no inhibitions. You know,
19:30
Speaker 2: you can just, there's nothing at stake. You know, you just,
19:33
Speaker 2: you can do whatever you like.
19:35
Speaker 3: What have you made of George's season? Because we talked
19:37
Speaker 3: about those expectations. It's not as if he's had a,
19:39
Speaker 3: at least from my viewpoint of it, a particularly bad year,
19:42
Speaker 3: but it's been a little bit more about being shown
19:43
Speaker 3: up and taking those beatings.
19:45
Speaker 2: It's a bit like someone coming in, you've been building
19:48
Speaker 2: some sort of model of, I don't know, the Cutty
19:51
Speaker 2: Sark or something like that out of matchsticks, and someone's
19:54
Speaker 2: come in and just gone smash. And he really, I
19:58
Speaker 2: have to say, he's been very unlucky, but then also
20:01
Speaker 2: from when he wasn't being unlucky, I mean, he did
20:03
Speaker 2: a great race in Baku, and I thought maybe this
20:06
Speaker 2: is it. But when... when there's, when there've been level pegging,
20:11
Speaker 2: Kimi has always caught him up and passed it. So
20:14
Speaker 2: on those occasions, you have to say, crikey, you know,
20:18
Speaker 2: maybe he's having to readjust his sights because, you know,
20:22
Speaker 2: the possibility of being a world champion when you're shown
20:25
Speaker 2: up by someone who is clearly faster, then it's very
20:31
Speaker 2: difficult to recover from that. You know, you'll have to
20:33
Speaker 2: start fighting back. And I don't know what's going on there,
20:37
Speaker 2: but I think he's, He's taken a crushing blow, quite frankly,
20:40
Speaker 2: and a huge shock to the system, George. So if
20:44
Speaker 2: he can lift himself up off the floor and find
20:47
Speaker 2: another gear, you never know, there might be some more
20:49
Speaker 2: excitement before the end of the season.
20:51
Speaker 3: It's uncommon for teammates who have been, this wasn't your situation,
20:55
Speaker 3: but nonetheless you bounced back from a title defeat, but
20:57
Speaker 3: teammates who have been defeated by their teammates to the
20:59
Speaker 3: title to then win the title after that, which is
21:02
Speaker 3: an interesting question for George, also an interesting one for
21:04
Speaker 3: Oscar Piastri. defeated by Lando Norris last season.
21:07
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the only people I can think of, I'm
21:10
Speaker 2: trying to rack my brains, but the Senna and Prost
21:14
Speaker 2: at McLaren situation is one, I suppose. But even then
21:18
Speaker 2: he was in a different team. He wasn't a teammate,
21:19
Speaker 2: was he? He moved on to Ferrari. You know, if
21:22
Speaker 2: you are in your teammate, it's just you and neither
21:26
Speaker 2: of you have got a world championship and the other
21:28
Speaker 2: guy wins it. And you're still in the same team
21:31
Speaker 2: the following year. That's hard. You know, it's hard to
21:34
Speaker 2: actually walk into the factory and cope with the fact
21:39
Speaker 2: that all the attention is going on this guy who's
21:40
Speaker 2: a world champion and you missed out. That again, I
21:44
Speaker 2: think with Oscar, you're seeing him having to re-find confidence.
21:50
Speaker 2: And I think these dynamics are just fascinating. It's very
21:54
Speaker 2: difficult to get two people on the same level. It
21:56
Speaker 2: seems to me one goes up and the other goes down.
21:59
Speaker 2: You can think confidence and attention and all whatever. the
22:03
Speaker 2: other things you need, form. But it is possible to
22:08
Speaker 2: tip the balance back again in another direction, but it
22:12
Speaker 2: comes down to a lot of work and just extending that,
22:18
Speaker 2: your effort, finding another gear.
22:20
Speaker 3: And just on this, before I ask you one more question,
22:23
Speaker 3: wrap up, and thank you very much for your time.
22:25
Speaker 3: To come back to that word, I keep coming back
22:27
Speaker 3: to this stoicism word. I felt like just those descriptions
22:30
Speaker 3: generally did feel similar to Oscar Piastri in many respects.
22:33
Speaker 3: He's very, you know, very horizontal in his mentality, I guess.
22:37
Speaker 3: But there were times last year and perhaps even in
22:39
Speaker 3: this year where the little glimpses of maybe a little
22:41
Speaker 3: bit more going on underneath the surface than he let on.
22:44
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about the team orders in Italy last year,
22:46
Speaker 3: which I said maybe affected him in Baku. Is it
22:48
Speaker 3: harder sometimes? I feel like you, at least for a
22:51
Speaker 3: period of time, took that approach to keep everything under
22:54
Speaker 3: wraps rather than let it out and vent it.
22:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do agree. I think Oscar is reluctant to
23:01
Speaker 2: kind of reveal whatever it is he's having to cope
23:05
Speaker 2: with within the team or within his mind. And I
23:08
Speaker 2: think that's why it's probably a good idea to keep
23:13
Speaker 2: your powder dry. Every now and then you have to express... something,
23:18
Speaker 2: but once it's out in the world, you don't have
23:21
Speaker 2: any control over it. So it's very difficult to pick
23:25
Speaker 2: which bit you kind of reveal, I suppose. But I
23:28
Speaker 2: think it does pay in the long run to just
23:35
Speaker 2: be judged on your performance, not necessarily on what you say.
23:39
Speaker 3: We talked a lot about reflection over the course of
23:42
Speaker 3: this interview, obviously. Beyond your own career, you've been close
23:45
Speaker 3: to Formula One now for 30 years, really, or 30
23:47
Speaker 3: years since your title in any case. A lot's changed.
23:50
Speaker 3: We were talking just before this podcast. Not always for
23:52
Speaker 3: the better. What are you happy to see that hasn't
23:54
Speaker 3: changed in Formula One, which is, particularly in the last decade,
23:57
Speaker 3: really feels like it's been revolutionised?
23:59
Speaker 2: Well, one thing that's different is they all talk to
24:01
Speaker 2: each other and get on. I've seen them get on
24:05
Speaker 2: planes together and stuff like that. And this was inconceivable
24:07
Speaker 2: in my day. You just wouldn't even, you know, never.
24:09
Speaker 2: So I came in at a time when drivers really
24:14
Speaker 2: seemed to loathe each other. And I was just in
24:17
Speaker 2: this sort of phase when that was changing. But it
24:20
Speaker 2: really changed after Bianchi, which was Bianchi's accident. I think
24:25
Speaker 2: they all felt... very much together and then they seem
24:28
Speaker 2: to keep this they go for dinner every year at
24:30
Speaker 2: the end of the season someone pays one of them
24:34
Speaker 2: and there is this camaraderie amongst them which perhaps wasn't
24:38
Speaker 2: around since about the 1960s so that's I feel a
24:43
Speaker 2: little bit jealous of their friendship that they have for
24:48
Speaker 2: each other which wasn't around when I was racing really
24:53
Speaker 2: you know so That's a good thing, but it means
25:03
Speaker 2: they have, there's this bond or whatever. I think it
25:07
Speaker 2: attracts fans. They like that idea that the drivers are
25:12
Speaker 2: able to compete, but they're also able to travel together
25:16
Speaker 2: without fighting.
25:18
Speaker 3: Good for everyone, I guess. You'd have paid for Michael
25:20
Speaker 3: Schumacher's dinner in 94, wouldn't you, at the end of
25:22
Speaker 3: the year?
25:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
25:26
Speaker 3: Whatever he wants.
25:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:27
Speaker 3: Well, Damon, thanks so much for joining me. Pleasure.
25:29
Speaker 2: Thank you.
25:30
Speaker 3: That was my chat.
25:31
Speaker 1: With Damon Hill, the 1996 Formula One World Champion. You
25:34
Speaker 1: can watch his documentary, Hill, in cinemas around the country
25:38
Speaker 1: as part of the British Film Festival. You can subscribe
25:40
Speaker 1: to Pitt Talk wherever you get your favourite podcasts and
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Speaker 1: you can leave us a rating and a review as well.
25:45
Speaker 1: This weekend is the Malaysian Motorcycle Grand Prix on Sunday
25:48
Speaker 1: at 6pm Australian Eastern Daylight Time, followed by the Formula
25:52
Speaker 1: One Mexico City Grand Prix at 7am Monday. You can
25:56
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25:58
Speaker 1: MotoGP news at foxsports.com.au.
26:02
Speaker 3: I'm Michael Laminato. Thanks very much for your company and
26:04
Speaker 3: I'll catch you next week.