Latest / DISGRACELAND / Christina Grimmie: A YouTube Star, an Obsessed Fan, and a Murder in Orlando

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Christina Grimmie: A YouTube Star, an Obsessed Fan, and a Murder in Orlando · DISGRACELAND

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Disgraceland as a production of Double Elvis. The stories about
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Christina Grimmy are heartbreaking. She was murdered by a crazed fan, stalked, hunted,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: gunned down in cold blood. She was a rising star,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and at twenty two years old, she had already gone
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: viral on YouTube and finished third in a season of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: NBC's singing competition show The Voice. But despite her public
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: image as a pop singer, Christina prepared for her own
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: concerts by listening to thrash metal at full volume. She
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: appreciated great music and aspired be someone who would make
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: great music for the rest of her life. Unlike that
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: music I played for you at the top of the show.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: That wasn't great music. That was a preset loop for
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: my melotron called Heartbreaking Thrash MK one. I played you
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: that loop because I can't afford the rights to once
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Dance by Drake featuring whiz Kid and Kyla. And why
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: would I play you that specific slice of Champagne Pappy Cheese?
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Could I afford it?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Because that was the number one song in America on
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: June tenth, twenty sixteen, And that was the day Christina
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Grimmy was gruesomely shot and killed after her show in Orlando, Florida,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: during a meet and greet with her adoring fans. On
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: this episode, a crazed fan, a singer.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: On the come up, a murder, and the viral TV
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: star Christina Grimmy. I'm Jake Brennan.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: This is Disgraceland.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Fifteen year old Christina Grimmy sat in her New Jersey
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: home watching the second hand of the clock take another
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: slow lap around the dial, her eyes and thumbs ached
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: from ours playing Zelda. Not that she would admit it,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: and just like she wouldn't admit that she was a
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: little tired of listening to albums by her beloved Metallica
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: and System of the Down.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: But right now.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It seemed as though there was nothing to do but
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: watched the time tick away. It was the summer of
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, and like many other kids in America,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Christina Grimmy was not only bored, she was constantly being
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: reminded that she was bored. The ticking of the family clock,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the rhythmic shuffle of sprinklers on lush green lawns, the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: languould drip, the leaky faucet coming from an otherwise quiet kitchen,
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: every tick, every sprinkle, every drip, the announcement of one
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: more second, passing with a glacier's pace. Christina leaned back
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: on the couch, grabbed the remote, and turned on the television.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: A local news report flickered to life. The young anchor
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: was recounting the capture of the so called bicycle bandit,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a bank robber who wore a mask and used a
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: ten speed as his getaway vehicle. His most recent score
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a TD bank in Vorheees, just minutes from Christina's family
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: home in Martin. The cops said, followed the bandit's trail
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and discovered a hideout not so deep in the Jersey woods,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: and I'm assuming spot where the bank robber's bike, a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: bag stuffed with cash, a sweatshirt, a silver handgun, and
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: that mask now had him dead to rights. Christina turned
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: off the TV and did what she usually did when
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: she got this boord.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: She sang. She walked back to her room and sat.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Down at the Yamaha keyboard set up there and her
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: back to the wall, where a Sonic the Hedgehog poster
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: hung at a slight tilt. She was just an American girl,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: raised on promises, and you know how the rest of
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: that goes, but she could relate to her peers and
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: vice versa. She had ambitions just like anybody, including many
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: other girls her age who enjoyed singing in their bedrooms.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: But Christina's natural.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Voice was a cut above the rest, and it was
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: that voice that inspired her friends to encourage Christina to
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: do something that would ensure that the summer of two
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine would be her last boring summer ever,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: because that was the summer that Christina Grimmy began uploading
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: her performances at her keyboard to her YouTube channel, and
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: that was the summer in which one of those performances,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: a cover of Miley Cyrus's Party in the USA, went viral,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: talking millions of views, thousands of likes, and as the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: views and the likes continued to amass, so did the
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: seconds in the minutes, and then the hours, and suddenly
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: time was no longer crawling.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Time was moving fast.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: For a fifteen year old Christina Grimmy was surprisingly shrewd
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: with how she grew her online fan base. The natural
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: impulse for a singer, especially at a young age, is
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: to perform.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: The kind of music that you love.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But instead of singing covers of songs by Metallica or
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: the other thrash.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Metal bands that Christina enjoyed.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Christina instead chose pop songs that were already successful on
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: the charts and popular with her age group songs by
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Justin Bieber, Demi Lovado, Taylor Swift, and the Jonas Brothers.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And then, as her fame continued to blossom and as
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: she started to command the attention of music managers in
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: A and R scouts and record labels, she further endeared
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: herself to her adoring crowd by refusing to compromise her values.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: She declined any offer that insisted she dressed more provocatively
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: than her customary outfit, which often consisted of a sharp
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: angled emo haircut and a few choice successories of studded belt,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: studded bracelets, and a simple cross around her neck. She
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: was humble and grounded, and kept that way by her
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: supportive parents and by her older brother Marcus, who would
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: soon begin to accompany her on guitar and later would
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: become her tour manager when she found herself competing on
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: the national stage. To understand Christina Grimmy's quick rise online
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: is to understand the shifting dynamics of the music industry
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: circle the late two thousands in early twenty tens. By
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: October of two thousand and eight, less than a year
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: before Christina began uploading her performances to YouTube, the platform
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: was attracting one hundred million American viewers per day. That's
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: more than two thirds of all the Internet users in
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: the country at that time, and that doesn't even take
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: into account global data. The A and R gatekeeping system
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: at the record label is the way that the music
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: industry had operated for decades, in which label reps would
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: discover bands and artists performing at a club or a bar,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and then invest money and time into their growth before
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: the masses got to hear them. That was quickly falling
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: by the wayside in two thousand and eight when YouTube
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: came along, it accidentally launched a massive, open audition system
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: where artists could create their own audiences and form an
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: emotional bond with that audience without the assistance of a
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: record label's traditional scouting and promotional methods. But with one
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: viral video leading to the next, it did not take
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: long before the music industry took notice. In the case
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: of Christina Grimmy, her videos were seen by the mother
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: of Disney Channel star and singer Selena Gomez, who passed
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: them on to her husband, Selena's stepfather, Brian Tafei, a
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: professional music manager. With the help of Brian Tafe's management
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: skills and support dates on Selena Gomez's tour, Christina built
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: upon her organic online fan base of teens and young
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: adults who.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: All saw themselves in her.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: And not that her fans fancied themselves big time pop
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: stars in the making like Christina did. They were grounded,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: humble like Christina was. Christina was loyal to her parents
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and to her older brother and to the millions now clicking,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: liking and subscribing, And for Christina, the reach could only
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: grow because, unlike a one off show at a club,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: videos posted on YouTube existed in perpetuity, so you're always
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: racking up new hits, new shares, and new followers. From
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Freehold to Tacoma, from Evanston to Amarillo all the way
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to Florida were years later, after Christina's family had pulled
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: up roots from Regia and moved to Los Angeles so
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: she could pursue her career, and after she defied expectations
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: by self releasing her own albums, and after she earned
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: a spot on that national stage via the NBC singing
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: competition The Voice. Her YouTube videos were discovered by a
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: man in Saint Petersburg, Florida named Kevin Lobel. Kevin fell
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: in love with Christina, just like the rest.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: Of the country did it.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Only his love for her quickly turned into something else.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: Now once it did time for Christina Grimmy, the grounded, humble,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: uncompromising singer. Time was no longer moving faster or slow.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Time became something that was simply borrowed. Despite the two
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Greek words from which it's derived, the term photophobia does
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: not actually denote the fear of light. Photophobia, or light aversion,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: as it's sometimes called, is defined as an abnormal sensitivity
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: to light, especially of the eyes. According to the National
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Library of Medicine, photophobia is a debilitating symptom in which
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: exposure of the eye to light induces and or exacerbates pain.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Photophobia is also very common. It affects around twenty percent
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: of the general population, with some studies indicating that the
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: number is even higher than that, and those who suffer
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: from photophobia squint or blink often. They tend to avoid
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: sunny days altogether, instead opting to remain inside until dusk,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: like Kevin Loible, twenty six years old of Saint Petersburg, Florida,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: When he wasn't working a shift at the local best
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Buy weekends mostly part time, Kevin's photophobia kept him hidden
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: away in his bedroom the house where he lived with
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: his father and his brother. The windows were hermetically sealed,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: heavy curtains were reinforced with strips of aluminum foil. Not
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: one sliver of sunlight found its way inside. But Kevin's
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: room was not pitch black. It was illuminated by the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: glow of his computer screen. These days, the contents of
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: what appeared on his screen were predictably all the same,
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't porn or sports or Call of duty playthroughs,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: as you might imagine for a twenty something reclusive loaner type.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: The videos were of Christina Grimmy, Christina Grimmy's YouTube channel,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Christina Grimmy's social media accounts, clips of Christina Grimmy performing
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: on The Voice, in which she'd appeared two years earlier
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen as a contestant on season six. Kevin
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: was catching up on years of Christina Grimmy. He hadn't
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: been in on the ground floor like millions of others
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: back in two thousand and nine. But you didn't need
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: a ground floor when you had the Internet. It was
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: all here, preserved like a memory, a dream that you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: could recall anytime you wanted to. And Kevin was watching
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: her now, specifically a clip of her blind audition for
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the Celebrity Coaches of the Voice. Christina was singing the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Miley Cyrus song Wrecking Ball. It was a powerhouse performance
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and Kevin could feel the connection almost as if he
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: was in the room with her, sitting in one of
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: those giant chairs that engulfed the shows for Celebrity Coaches.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: And they called the Stars of the Voice coaches and
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: not judges, because their role is to recognize a talented
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: singer and and coached them to success throughout the season.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: With any luck, they'll coach their own unknown singer all
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the way to the grand prize one hundred thousand dollars
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: in a recording contract. And the whole process begins with
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: what's called a blind audition, where the coaches listen with
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: their backs turned to the contestant. The idea of being
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that a coach's decision to throw their hat into the
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: ring and offer to work with the contestant is based
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: solely on the contestant's voice.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: It's right there in the title of the show. But
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I digress.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Kevin, though, he watched this whole thing vicariously through the
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: eyes of each coach and their faces lighting up one
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: by one as Christina Grimy sang. They slammed their hands
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: down on giant staple sized buttons, which caused their oversized
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: chairs to spin around to put them face to face
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: with Christina's raw talent. First it was Usher, then Shakira,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: then Adam Levine, and finally Blake Shelton. All four of
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the judges were in awe, all four of them feeling
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the same thing that Kevin Lougle was feeling. But for Kevin,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the feeling wasn't just awe. It was something else, something
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: as dark as his bedroom in Saint Petersburg obsession. Kevin
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: kept watching, and he was heartbroken when later in the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: season Christina did not receive enough votes from viewers at home.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: She finished in third place overall, but he wasn't surprised
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: when Christina's coach, Adam Levine from Maroon five, offered her
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: a spot on his own record label. He wasn't surprised
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: either when she turned Levine down to sign with Island Records,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the one time home of U two, Grace Jones and
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: of course Home of Bob Marley. And then when Island
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Records dropped Christina before she could release a full length album,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: wasn't surprised at that either, because Kevin, like many of
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Christina's fans, knew that she hadn't failed. Instead, he knew
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: that she'd refused to compromise. She wasn't going to become something.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: She wasn't just to make a buck for somebody else.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: There was a purity to Christina. Kevin could see that
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: her purity was bright. It warmed his face like the
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: rays of the sun, but unlike the sun, it caused
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: him no pain.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Christina was the one light.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: That shone on Kevin Louble's dark and anonymous world, a
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: world in which he lurked like so many others. While
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Christina Grimmy livestreamed on Twitch, playing Super Smash Brothers on
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: her Nintendo and chatting it up with fans. And just
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: like YouTube had changed the way artists were discovered, YouTube
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: and Twitch and the Internet at large were now changing
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: how an artist connected with her fans. There was no
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: mystery left in celebrity. It was all out there. A
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: twitch stream could feel like an intimate hang, like you
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: were right there in the room with the person that
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: you were obsessed with, joking along and laughing and asking
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: questions that Christina Grimmy would actually answer. Right there in
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: the moment, the walls were breaking down, and for someone
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: desperately looking for connection alone, or perhaps a recluse who
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: only worked weekends, this experience had a potential to feel
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: more real than it actually was. After all, it was
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Nobody met at a bar anymore. People found
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: each other online, dating apps, Instagram, dms. So twitch streams,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: why not? So went to thinking For Kevin Loible. He
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: navigated to Christina's website, taking note of her recently announced
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: tour dates. She was playing Orlando in June, just a
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: few months from now, and the drive wasn't bad, about
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: one hundred miles from Saint Pete. And even better, Christina
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: was hosting a meet and greet after the show that
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: sealed it. Kevin bought a ticket, and when the date
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: arrived June tenth, he made the trek.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: He knew what he was going to do, walk right
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: up to her, profess his.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Love, and then the light that was Christina Grimmy would
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: shine on his mole like existence.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Her light was already shining right now, like she was.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: There in the room with him, like he was tearing
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: down the curtains from his windows, ripping off the pieces
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: of aluminum foil that had blocked the sun. But light
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: reveals the state of things, the dust, the dirt, the filth.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Then there was him. He stared at his reflection in
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the mirror and thought about Christina looking at him the
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: way he'd just been looking at her. First impressions were
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: everything his poor eyesight, his thinning hair, his weight.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: It was decided Kevin had to make some changes.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: By twenty sixteen, two years after failing to win the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: big prize in the Voice, Christina Grimmy had continued to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: nurture her career with such care and caution that it
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: suggested a level of maturity far beyond.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Her twenty two years.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: The bump she'd received on national television was nice at
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the time, but it was easily forgotten by the time
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: a champion was crowned in the next season started up.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Christina was still able to do what she loved.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: She was out there making music and playing shows, but
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: she was now doing it on a much smaller scale
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: than she'd once to match it. Yet the smaller scale
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: didn't bother. In fact, it was by design. She could
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: have bet at all pushed her chips in on the
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: deal with Island, but she knew.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: That it wasn't the right fit.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: Not now.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: She was only twenty two, and there was time. We're
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: so want the thinking. Marcus Grimmy, her older brother, her collaborator,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: her guitarist, and now her tour manager. He kept Christina
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: focused and kept her honest. Marcus knew the kind of
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: talent that his sister possessed. He knew that it was
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: his job to hang back, just outside the spotlight and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: play the supporting role. The shows these days were less produced,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: which required less overhead, just a backing track over which
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Marcus played guitar and Christina sang.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: They were the.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Tour opener for a group called Before You Exit, a
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: trio of brothers who began playing while still in their
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: church youth group. But from Philadelphia to New York and
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Chicago to Toronto, Christina was the altar at which fans worshiped.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Marcus would lean back and dig into his guitar, beaming
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: with pride and all the attention his sister drew from
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: city to city. The fans sang along all the songs
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: from relatedt EP, the independently released side A, including the
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: songs she'd written on her own.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: But they didn't even know the half of it.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: They didn't know what it was like to listen to
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the other side of Christina Grimmy, the grittier side, the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: one that tour through led Zeppelin's Babe I'm Gonna Leave
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: You at soundcheck every night. Only Marcus knew what that
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: incredible experience felt like. These were the kinds of secrets
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: that Christina kept, like pregaming for a show by cranking
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: thrash metal at full volume in her headphones, not the
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: broader style of pop music that she was identified with.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: This is the trick of celebrity in the Internet age,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the trick of maintaining some sense of secrecy, even though
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: fans waiting for you in Washington, d C. In Atlanta
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and very soon in Orlando, they think that they know
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: everything there is to know about you. Kevin Loibel thought
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: he knew everything about Christina, but he was about to
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: discover that this was not true, just like his fellow
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: best Buy employees were about to discover something they didn't
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: know about Kevin Loibel. Kevin had been keeping to himself
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: at work ever since he told his co workers about
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: his plan to go see Christina Grimey in Orlando and Marrier.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Then they all gave a shit about it.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: So he hit away in the stock room at best Buy,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: just like he hit away in his bedroom at home.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: But today was different.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Today, when Kevin arrived for a shift at work, he
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: wanted to be seen because Kevin no longer looked like himself.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: He'd lost weight, his teeth were whitened, He'd got in
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: lacing surgery and hair implants. His physical transformation was shocking
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: for Kevin. It wasn't shock, It was simply intentional. It
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: was rising to meet the moment. Shock was something else, entirely.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Shock was what he felt just a short time later
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: when he was looking at photos of Christina online and
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: saw something that made.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Him question everything.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: He remained a changed man who was on a mission.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Only now his mission had changed. It was no longer
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: a mission of love. It was one of retribution. He
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: flipped the hourglass. He held back the hands on the clock.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Kevin Loibel was now controlling time, and Christina Grimmy's time
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: was nearly up.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after this. We're we're, we're getting
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: the gun was easy.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Florida had a five day waiting period and he had
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: no record, no priors, so he put down the money,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: bided his time, and on May thirty first, Kevin Loibel
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: picked up his new Glock nine millimeter handgun. He decided
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: a second gun was only prudent insurance to get the
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: job done, so to speak, So one week later, on
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: June seventh, he returned to the shop to get another glock,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: this one a slightly different model. Two days after that,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: on June ninth, he left Saint Petersburg for Orlando, where
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the following night, Christina Grimmy was scheduled to perform at
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: an independent music venue called the Plaza Live. Kevin Loible
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: packed light. He had his concert ticket, He had his guns.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: He had an additional loaded mag for each piece. He
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: had a large hunting knife which he strapped to his ankle.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: He was careful to cover his tracks. He destroyed the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: hard drive on his computer back home and encrypted his
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: smartphone so that when all was said and done, the
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: police would be unable to learn much about him. He
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: also left a handwritten note at his home to let
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: everyone know that he was sorry for what he was
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: about to do. They would never be able to know
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: exactly what set Kevin off, why he went from obsessing
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: over marrying Christina to obsessing over killing Christina. Later, through
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: interviews with those who knew him, including his best buy coworkers,
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the cops would conclude that an online photo of Christina
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: with another man was potentially the catalyst. That Kevin may
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: have felt betrayed at the sight of this photo, this
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: mystery boyfriend, perhaps even though his own relationship with Christina
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: was in reality no more than a fantasy in his mind.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: The fantasy turned dark that day, and when Kevin finally
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: hit the road on June ninth, he no longer had
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: wedding bells on the brain. He was thinking only of murder.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: As Kevin Loyble was checking into the Courtyard by Marriott
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: in Orlando, over four hundred miles away in Atlanta, Christina
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Grimey and her brother Marcus were taking selfies with fans
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: at the meet and greet following that night's show.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: On their tour.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Any sign of Christina's disappointment with being eliminated from the
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Voice two years prior have been replaced by the overwhelming
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: gratitude she felt to be able to do what she did,
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: to travel from city to city, sing, hang out with
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: adoring fans, and share it all with her brother. It's
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: sounded stupid and cliched to say out loud, but it
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: really was a.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Dream come true.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: After The Voice, she stayed busy. She entered and won
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: a different competition, this time the iHeartRadio Macy's Rising Star Contest,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: which secured her a spot performing at the iHeartRadio Music
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Festival in the fall of twenty fifteen, further raising her
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: profile in.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: The process and in the months since.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: She'd returned to The Voice as the show's resident fashion
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: expert and spokesperson for Cole's. Her new EP, Side A,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: which she was selling on her own at her show's
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: debuted at number twenty five on Billboard's Independent Chart, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: she was already at work on its follow up.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Side B.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: After the last fan was out the door, Christina, Marcus
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and the guys in Before You Exit packed up. The
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: next twenty four hours were standard tor Fair cheap hotel,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: too wired to sleep early morning in the hum of
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: tires on the road long stretched down Ie seventy five
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: asphalt in Gridlock, and they pulled into Orlando in time
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: for soundcheck at the Plaza, live solid crowd that night.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: She could feel the love.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And the show went as well as any on the tour,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: though there was something extra special in the air, seeing
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: that Orlando was before you exits hometown.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: The meet and greet.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Which followed was the same as always, which is to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: say that Christina and Marcus had done this hundreds of
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: times and had it down to a science. Fans lined up,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: mostly teenage girls, and one by one they made their
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: way to Christina, who was always waiting for each of
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: them with their arms wide open. There was a reason
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: that she was a spokesperson for Cohle's and not for
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Prada or Louis Vatan. The teenagers and young adults engaging
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: with her in the flesh saw themselves in Christina. Christina
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: was there every woman. She was a hugger, humble and grounded.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: She made everyone feel humble and grounded and safe.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: But when it came to safety, precautions were taken.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Of course, there was security on site, but security wasn't
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: much more than a couple of big dudes in polo
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: shirts checking bags and purses at the entrance, and they
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: weren't armed, and there was no need. Christina's level of
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: fame and the size of the crowds were relatively low
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and manageable by a small team. And this was still
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Even Taylor Swift was a few years away
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: from combating the occupational hazard of stalkers by installing facial
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: recognition software at her shows. So Christina stood by the
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: merch table, her brother Marcus by her side, and threw
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: open her arms for the next girl waiting in line.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: They hugged, and the girl began to smile and cry
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: at the same time, both relieved and overwhelmed at the moment.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: And then the girl handed her phone to her mom,
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: who took a photo of her standing there with Christina's
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: arm around her waist, the girl wearing a Christina Grimmy
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: T shirt, Christina still dressed in the black top matching
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: black skirt she'd worn for the show.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: The flash from.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: The foam went off and the girl stumbled over her words,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: trying to express her gratitude, and then the girl was gone,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: and it was time for the next fan in line.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: But this next person looked much different from the rest
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of the fans. Stepping toward Christina. Now wasn't another teenage girl,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: but an adult male with bright white teeth and thinny,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: dirty blonde hair. He wore a red, white and blue
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: flannel shirt, black jeans, and a black baseball cap. It
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: didn't matter that he was different from the rest. A
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: fan was a fan, was a fan, no judgment. Christina
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: did what she always did, arms wide open, she went
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: for the hug, bring it in here, And as she did,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: the man came in closer, but he didn't open his
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: arms and return. Instead, he reached behind him, his hand
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: on the back of his pants, pulling a glock nine
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: millimeter from the concealed nylon holster.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Christina barely had time to.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Clock exactly what was happening when the man raised the gun,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: pointed it at her at close range, and.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: Fired swer slower.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Marcus Grimmy was standing next to his sister when the
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: shots rang out, five of them in quick succession. They
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: sounded like balloons popping and echoing inside the small venue.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: But when Marcus saw Christina suddenly dropped to the ground
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: and he looked up to see Kevin loidele standing there,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: a man he did not know, a man his sister
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: did not know, flannel shirt, black jeans, black cat, the
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: smoke rising from the muzzle, the glock in his hand.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Marcus panicked. The whole room was full of people who
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: were now panicking. Teenage girls were screaming. They were dropping
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: to the floor like Christina just had, flat on their stomachs,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: their hands and arms wrapped tightly around their heads so
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: as to shield themselves from whatever harm was about to
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: befall them all. Marcus looked at Kevin, and then to
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: his sister, lying there lifeless on the floor of the plaza,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: and then back to Marcus again. The panic melted away,
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: and Marcus was now vibrating. The adrenaline surged, his heart raised.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: He was understanding what had just happened, but not wanting
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: to believe it. Spurred on in this moment by the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: need to jump into action, by the need to do something,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: So he followed that impulse, that instinct, and he leapt forward,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: grabbing Kevin Loible and knocking his body to the ground.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: There the two men wrestled, and Marcus got his hands
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: around Kevin's hands, twisting and turning them back and forth,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: and hopes that he could wrench gun away, and also
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: hoping that in doing so he wouldn't cause the gun
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to go off again. It only took Marcus a few
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: seconds to accomplish what he set out to do.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: He had the gun, no one else would be hurt.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Marcus stood up on his feet and Kevin did the same,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: and the two squared off just a short distance apart,
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: and Marcus felt a sense of relief, even as his
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: heart continued to pound and his hands shook. And then
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Marcus's hard won victory received a setback.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Kevin reached around to his back.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Again like he'd done a few moments before when he
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: shot Christina, and he pulled out the second gun, another
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: glock nine millimeter.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: Now the panic had returned.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Marcus Grimmy's eyes were locked with the eyes of the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: man who just put bullets into his sister, the same
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: man who had a second gun now pointing at him.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: This was it.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: The same thing that had happened to Christina was about
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: to happen to Marcus. And Marcus braced himself for the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: sound for the deafening blast.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: He wondered, if you would.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Hear it before the bullet pierced his skin before he
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: wound up down on the floor next to his sister.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: The following few seconds felt like hours, but Kevin did
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: not fire at Marcus. Instead, Kevin Feuble took a few
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: steps back toward a nearby wall, raised the gun to
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: his own head, and pulled the trigger. The Orlando Police
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Department received numerous nine to one to one calls at
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: ten twenty four pm on the evening of June tenth,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, When first responders arrived at the Plaza Live,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: they found the shooter, Kevin Loible, dead of a self
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: inflicted gunshot wound. The victim, Christina Grimmy, twenty two years old,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: having given CPR by the father of the Before You
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Exit band members, who found that she had a very
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: weak pulse. Christina was rushed to nearby or Lane unto
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Regional Medical Center, where she was pronounced dead a short
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: time later at ten fifty nine pm. Christina had been
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: shot three times in her torso and once in the side.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Of her head, and the head wound proved fatal.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Marcus Grimmy walked the cops through it all, including how
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: he had knocked Kevin Louble down to the ground in
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: order to disarm him. Marcus was quickly hailed by Orlando
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: PD as a hero for.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Preventing further damage.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Homicide detectives traveled to the Saint Petersburg home of Kevin Loible,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: where they found the computer with a damaged hard drive
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: in a note that he had left behind.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: The note simply read, with all its.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Mistakes intact quote deepest sorrow for lost to the family,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: friends and fans of the very talented, loving Christina Grimmy,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: no other comments unquote. Kevin Loubele's father, brother, and coworkers
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: all provided their statements. Some of them were unaware of
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Kevin's obsession, while others had noticed that said obsession had
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: grown unhealthy in the last six to eight weeks. Kevin's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: fellow Best Buy employee and best friend of fifteen years,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Corey Dennington, described to the detectives a man who had
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: been quickly.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Losing his grip on reality.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: He said that Kevin spent most of his waking hours
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: when not at work, following Christina Grimmy online, including her
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: social media accounts, even though Kevin himself did not have.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Any social media accounts.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Corey, the employee, confirmed that Kevin had made all those
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: changes to his appearance, his hair, his eyes, his teeth,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: his weight for Christina Grimmy's benefit, because he firmly believed
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: that they were going to be together. Corey even revealed
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: how Kevin, a self described atheist, had claimed that Christina's
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: faith had inspired him to reassess his own beliefs, and furthermore,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Kevin had said that if God did exist, then he
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: saw God in Christina Grimmy. Even more troubling, the last
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: thing Kevin said to Corey just days before leaving for
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Orlando was that.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: He was tired and was ready to ascend.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Only now in hindsight did those comments strike Kevin's co
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: worker as troubling, Perhaps because none of us expect that
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: one of our friends or co workers is capable of murder,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And so again we're faced with the question of motive here.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Why did Kevin Loible do it? Why did he kill
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the person he professed to be in love with. TMZ
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: reported at the time that another one of Kevin's co
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: workers had told them he had seen a photograph of
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Christina with her male producer, and that Kevin, upon seeing
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: the photo, was sent into a rage. But when Orlando
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: detectives spoke with Kevin's other coworkers, none of them confirm
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: they were the source who had spoken to TMZ, So
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: whatever the explanation, it wasn't going to bring Christina Grimmy back.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: And now Marcus Grimmy left to grieve the loss of
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: his little sister, as were their parents, a mother and
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: father who had been so instrumental in helping Christina pursue
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: her dream. Like the Grimmy family, the rest of the
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: pop world also went In the morning, Selena Gomez, Demi Levado,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Nick Jonas, and others who knew Christina took to Instagram
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: and Twitter, and his Instagram post. Adam Levine, Christina's coach
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: and the voice and one of her biggest supporters, shared
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: a selfie of the two of them with a caption
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: that read, I'm sad, shocked.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And confused. We love you so much, Grimy. We are
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: all praying hard that you can pull through this. This
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: just isn't fair.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: That one line we are all praying hard that you
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: can pull through this. It stands out because at the
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: time when Levin posted this, Christina Grimmy had already been
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: pronounced dead. That said shock is a hell of a thing,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: as his love, as his hope, as is the fucked
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: up process that is green. Adam Levine, for one, didn't
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: know what the hell to do, so he offered.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: To pay for Christina's funeral.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, back in Orlando, tragedy multiplied a little over twenty
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: four hours after Christina Grimmy was gunned down at the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Plaza Live, only a few miles away, another gunman, a
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: different gunman, walked into a gay nightclub called Pulse and
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: shot and killed forty nine people, wounding another fifty eight.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: The mass casualty event quickly overshadowed the news of Christina
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Grimmy's murder on a national level, just another example of
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: the erratic influence of time in the news cycle and
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: in our culture. Because even though she may have been overshadowed,
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Christina Grimmy has not been forgotten. Time won't let us forget,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: even if time can also take from us far too
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: soon the people that we love, and for that, the
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: cruel nature with which time barrels ahead can be such
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: a disgrace. I'm Jake Brennan in this this disgracelaand all right, guys,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: thanks for hanging with me. In another episode of disgrace,
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: and a heavy one, very very heavy. This week's question
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: of the week, which rock stars murder, assassination, whatever you
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: want to call it due to obsession has wrecked you
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: the most emotionally? Okay, fans of Christina Grimmy, Dine Back, Darryl,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: John Lennon, This there's a lot, unfortunately, And you know,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I still remember how I felt as a little boy,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: very little actually when when John Lennon was killed, and
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: that feeling has stayed with me.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: So that's what I want to unpack with you. Guys.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Let me know which one's gutted you the most.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Six one seven, nine oh six sixty six three eight
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: voicemail and text.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Hit me up at Disgrace lampod on the socials.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: You can also email me Disgrace lampod at gmail dot com.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Sign up to become an all access member at our Patreon,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: our Apple podcast. Go to disgrace lampod dot com to
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: sign up. Thanks for the support. Here comes some credits.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Disgraceland was created by Yours Truly and is produced in
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: partnership with Double Elvis, The Exactly Right Network, and iHeart Podcasts.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Credits for this episode can be found on the show
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: notes page at disgracelampod dot com. If you're listening as
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: a disgracelan All Access member, thank.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: You for supporting the show.
• 39:42
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• 39:45
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• 39:48
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• 39:52
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• 39:55
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• 39:59
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• 40:08
  Speaker 1: He's a bad bad man.