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Trust / Not Trust (RHOSLC S1 Pt. 2) · Mention It All Again

• Blake: and move to ⁓ Heather is opening a new location for a beauty lab. ⁓ Casey: Right, like also in Utah, it's our finale event and it's a big deal for her. it's it's kind of like a lackluster event for a finale but since we're on season one like that's fine like whatever Heather's like Utah suburb opening of another beauty lab is fine ⁓ for what we have going on and when we leave like again ⁓ everybody's still mad at each other or everybody's still mad Jen like nobody's still mad at each other really it's everybody verse Jen Hey, listeners, watchers of the Mention It All Again pod. I'm your co-host Casey, leading us off this week instead of Blake, but my gorgeous and talented co-host Blake is here with us as well, of course. Jen and Lisa have like a one-on-one right before this final party where Lisa kind of tries to take up for her. ⁓ But nobody's super having it besides really Lisa. Again, like what Blake was saying of like Heather and Lisa are the the harbingers of the Jen apocalypse. Like Lisa is doing her legwork here. ⁓ She's like doing the defending of her because Heather's not having it. Whitney's not having it. Meredith's not having it. And that's kind of how we go into the beauty lab. Blake: Hey everyone, I swear I saw your lips about to say, am Blake. And then, I don't know if that was just me, but like they were about to like purse and be like, be like, I am Casey, not Blake. But yeah, we switched it up. We switched it up. I'm glad to switch it up. I'm glad to elevate a woman's voice, a woman's story. Cause this podcast is about female empowerment and Casey: Probably. Female voices. Like Heather says I don't even know if Jen's gonna come and obviously she comes I mean, I'm sure they're contractually obligated to go but Blake: And Casey, last time I checked, you are a female. So, okay, good. didn't wanna, that would be really awkward if you were like, I'm not actually. I don't identify that way. Well, thank you for that wonderful introduction. I don't think anyone's ever called me talented before, so. Can I get an amen? Can I get you to write that down? I'm gonna send that to everyone in my life. Casey: That's correct. That's correct. I should have done that to gag the live, but no. They should. Absolutely. Blake: ⁓ We left off midway in the season last time and I think we should just get right into it because the back half of this season is honestly way more, I would say, important than the first half. ⁓ So why don't you lead us into where we left off. Or not where we left off, but where the episode is. Casey: Yeah. for sure. Well, yeah, like mid-season-ish where we're at, they kind of like have reached a settling point. There's not a ton of new drama. We're still circling the Mary-Jen of it all, which is now kind of tying in Meredith and Lisa because, ⁓ The big thing at this party, mean like, so realistically, like just cause it makes sense and what we've been talking about, Heather and Jen get into it big time at this event because like they had not resolved it from Vegas and Heather was finally like starting to pick up on what was going on. And Heather's big theme is like. Blake: Like not just me. Casey: Jen has been upset over other people being friends with Mary, but we get a development on a little one-on-one with Mary and Whitney, kind of like after the last round of parties and group events. And Mary tells Whitney... you are not a good friend to me. Like, I have been what we were just saying, like, I have been such a ride or die for you, and you do not carry the same back to me. And like, she kind of like definitely has a little bit of a drunk housewife fixation on like the own it piece. feel like she was like hearing a little bit of Lisa. She was hearing Lisa Rinna like in her head during this, but whatever, whatever it takes to get you to say what you need to say, but that she hears from Meredith and Lisa all the time that they're not happy with how Jen acts and how Jen treats Mary and that they want, they would talk to her if they weren't like afraid of her reaction, parentheses, but this gets twisted as we go. Blake: Yeah, ⁓ she was on repeat like she was stuck in a loop Just own it just say it just own it just tell me you weren't a good friend But the crazy thing about that was Jen was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to own What You Yeah, and as you mentioned last episode, I really didn't realize or remember how like close they were for Whitney to be the like one of the group who goes to marry to like debrief her and like Casey: Which is why I brought this up because like again, Jen, and this is why I thought this while I was watching it, I was like, wow, this is in real time, somebody, again, I think I said this earlier, someone who is the most unable to take accountability. Like I've never seen anybody this averse to owning their own responsibility. Blake: Because I feel like at this point is when Mary starts to get isolated. Because if everyone would recalls like the whole meme of the first season was Mary spends like half the season in her closet. And I think this is when we start that like Mary starts to get isolated and it's because of Jen. Jen just like refused. Jen is... Casey: Yes. Blake: Yeah, to your, to like the one person who has had your back the whole time. She made her rounds to Meredith, to Lisa, to Whitney, everyone on the cast, she had an apology. And then when Heather asks for an apology, Casey: Right, like stand on it for all of the other women, like whatever. Blake: like not able to if you apologize to her it has to be the exact apology that she wants from you and if it's not that exact wording and if it's not like i'm sorry and this is why i'm sorry and like i'm sorry for exactly what you want me to be sorry for then she doesn't accept it she'll she'll act like she accepts it but she's she's still gonna continue to like terrorize you ⁓ Casey: And she would have had such a better, she would have had such a better reception if she had done it to Heather. Like, I bet you fans would have been like, you know what, at least she's loyal to Heather. even if she's not a good person, like the fact that she forsakes Heather is such a like career ending reputation ending like. Yeah. Blake: Well, it's just like you are using her clearly. She's your punching bag and you clearly want her to be your friend because you know that she'll stick around you as you use her as your punching bag. And that's sad that Heather can't see that. Casey: clearly. Right, which is also crazy work for someone that is absolutely maybe the worst apologizer that I've ever seen. Like, so to have all these like specific needs out of people to like have the appropriate reaction, but then to not even understand how to have the basic like, I'm sorry, I hurt you, like is crazy work, like two sides of the opposite spectrum. Blake: terrorist someone ⁓ well yes she I said terrorist but yes, she's Casey: Yeah, and like Jen is saying during this like because Heather is like just apologize It's like literally just apologize to me and like own the things that you've done like own that You just aren't a great friend to me. Like don't even like take specific accountability for items like just say in general that you haven't been as good of a friend to me as I have been to you and Jen is physically unable to do this like she looks like it's Blake: right right it it's it's actually shocking to like to be somebody who understands that an apology should be thorough like if you're going to apologize you should specify what you're apologizing for i i understand that i agree with that Unable. Casey: hurting her, like she's like, Heather, I don't understand, like I just don't understand, like Heather could not be speaking more clearly, like you understand, you're an adult woman, but she just like, the version of the world in which she might be wrong legitimately doesn't exist to her, which I think is like what, probably if you were gonna classify that, it'd probably be like narcissism, like she definitely like has something going on mentally. Blake: But like if you ever approach Jen with anything about like what she did wrong, it's like ⁓ she responds and it's like you're having a debate about it and she starts to like, ⁓ well, this is why I did that. And but what you don't understand is this. And it's like, okay, so now you're not apologizing anymore. Now you're like trying to basically justify your behavior, which isn't an apology. She's, yeah. But like anyway, so, but like Whitney visits Mary's closet. Casey: but I would guess I'm not a diagnostician but I would guess it's probably narcissism but like this is crazy to me because like I am someone who has a flaw of like I always think I'm right because like I usually am honestly like I'm a very smart and awesome person ⁓ but I know this about myself so sometimes I have to check myself of like ⁓ maybe this time like you're just feeling that because you always feel that like and maybe you need to like Blake: and she's talking to her and conveying this information. And I, really, it's like crazy to imagine that bobblehead little girl is literally the next season. Like I forgot how we got there. Casey: They're so close. This is like their fourth one-on-one scene in the first season. Like it's like been like constant. Like they were, they were homies. And like, I honestly get it because like Whitney is empathetic and like, I think besides Mary, because Mary is clearly the one who I think sees Jen the most clearly at this point. Like for like what she is, like the women. apologize, like even if you don't fully understand, like even I will be like, okay, yeah, like, you know what, I clearly hurt you, like, I don't, maybe I don't fully get it, but like, I know that I need to apologize for us to move forward. Like, Jen can't even concept, conceptualize that piece of it, of just like, ⁓ I don't, maybe, maybe I don't believe this, but I should just say this so we can move on. She doesn't even get like that level of human interaction, which to me is like, how do you have any relationships in your life? And like, we'll talk about this more, but the women all kind of have this like weird loyalty and like potentially fear of Jen. Like there's something about how they interact with her. But I think if you want to go next, who is like the least enamored by Jen at this point, it would be Whitney. Like right, right off of Mary. I think it kind of switches to Meredith as we go. But that also makes sense of why Mary is like feeling supported more so by Whitney because Whitney can actually be like. Like, I don't even understand that. Blake: But that is exactly why it highlights the fact that, to Mary's point, how you all are under some sort of spell with this woman. Because she's not a good friend to you, she's an insane lady, and you all for some reason treat her as if she's on the same level as a normal person who has normal issues in a friendship. So I would feel personally a little bit... I'd feel some type of way if I were Mary. ⁓ yeah. Casey: Yes, 100%. Yeah, that was actually an insane reaction to have. Like, she's calling it like it is and not making up all these excuses like Meredith, Lisa, and Heather are at this point in time and we're in like the first half of the season. Blake: Yeah. Because I feel like with Mary they're much quicker to discard her than they are with Jen. Jen, want her. Yeah. So anyway, the party- Casey: Right, I agree. Blake: I honestly want to say that I think that's because Whitney like pretty quickly figured out what the fuck she was doing on a reality TV show so she didn't have this weird like fear of conflict or this weird fear of like bringing issues to people like she knew the game that she signed up for so I think like a lot of them are Casey: Yes, though they've been so unfair to Mary. And I think on first watch, I felt more like, ⁓ Mary's being a little bit like, she's like choosing to not move on and she's isolating herself like on my first watch, because I did like enjoy Jen Shah more on my first watch, like even though I knew she was awful, like I at least was like, ⁓ like I'm enjoying it. So like, whatever. But I think this time around, I feel more like, no, Mary just Blake: There's so many considerations and like so many things that you get in your head about when you're on a reality TV show that you see with these women. But Whitney, feel like, ⁓ and I feel like at first I didn't like her because I thought she was because of that. And then the second season I started realizing, no, like she's, she's good at this. And I didn't realize that at first, but that's what it is. And everyone else. Yeah. She's, she's like a, ⁓ she like knows she produces. Casey: had the accurate assessment of her and wasn't willing to put up with the bullshit like for an entire season of and I wouldn't be either if that was my real life. ⁓ And nobody makes amends with her like that's where they leave it like Heather and Jen don't make amends literally nobody's happy with her. Blake: It's exhausting! There's no reason to! Casey: I appreciate that about her. Yeah. Blake: She ends up in jail. This is not a woman that you put in the time and eventually have a good relationship with. This is a woman who, like, takes advantage of the people around her and then ends up in jail. and keeps it moving ⁓ in a way that I think is pretty essential to the show, in my opinion. Casey: Right, well and at this point in the show, things like I had said at the start had stalled out a little bit. Like, we didn't have a ton of like group scenes, like we had just been relying off the one party. It's been a couple weeks now, like, or episodes, whatever. It feels like a couple weeks. I don't know the timeline, but ⁓ Whitney keeps things moving and she gets us a new direction on this whole thing because now, ⁓ what'd you say about Lisa and Meredith not being happy with Jed? Hmm. Yeah, and they move on from this party, like kind of lacklusterly ends, like nothing crazy happens, that's notable. ⁓ Nothing is really resolved, like they really just leave things right where they are. And we move on to reunion, yeah. Blake: Yeah, but then we go to the reunion, then we go to the reunion and I think that the Rihanna endorsement on top of the fact that I think for Heather on top of the fact that they watch everything back like Heather comes in hot in a way that's very like yes, absolutely. That's how you should feel. So, you know, we learn a lot of things. We learn, for example, that the party that Jen fake through for Meredith Yeah. Casey: For Heather. For Heather. Yeah. I will take that bone and I will carry it in the legacy of my founding mothers, Sheree Whitfield and Ashley Darby. carries the torch and is ready to go with this info, which she sits on for like a second and gets ready for, let's say the imperfect time to launch it. ⁓ But one Whitney detail that Blake: You Hahaha was actually on the day of Lisa's birthday, which is funny because I would imagine that you would just throw it for Lisa if you're gonna throw a party for- Casey: which is wild. Blake: Yeah Casey: Well, and it's like, it's funny just because the party was barely for Meredith, like it was really for Jen. So like for it to be barely for Meredith, and it's also Lisa's actual birthday, like you've offended now two friends, basically. we'll touch on that we missed. She's actually, this is our second appearance of the season, but in the second half. Blake: Oh yeah, because she's the drunk girl who walks into Jen's party for Meredith thinking it's Jen's birthday and she's like, happy birthday and then they're like, who are you singing that to? But I didn't realize that that was the same girl and then so we get a scene, it's like so irrelevant to the entire story but it's just funny because Twitter was on fire when But the main thing I would say, the main thing for me that we learn at the reunion is Andy says we got a lot of questions about what you do, how are you so rich? And she says essentially like I work in like rapid response marketing. We have ⁓ the algorithms for like when people access certain websites and like the algorithms for their interests and like their Casey: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, like some bullshit. Blake: ⁓ Whitney's hanging out with her friend Sarah in the kitchen and somebody like literally screenshots a picture of her and then puts it next to like a picture of like a group of January Sixers Storming the capital and this woman Sarah is storming the capital and she's Whitney's friend it is it was so it's so like it's such a time capsule because emails and stuff and we give that to you so you can harvest their information and contact them and blah blah blah and it doesn't sound like it doesn't really make a lot of sense and then there's ⁓ Casey: No, she's making it sound like she's the business of like the one that like watches your ads on Instagram and then recommends you a new ad like that's what she makes it sound like she is even though we now know that obviously like nothing was going on even though that's a shady business in itself nothing was going on Not January 6th-er, that is like an insane label to have on yourself, like ⁓ yeah. Blake: Right. ⁓ and many people do and many people do but it's just like This lady this like blonde drunk girl who's like hanging like happy birthday Jen Right. right and Heather Heather who is like her friend who knows her business is like to be honest I still don't know what she does but I've been to her work parties and they're fucking fun was like, I need to book a ticket to Washington DC and maybe start climbing on top of the Capitol to obstruct this election. Like the layers, the layers involved in this lady. Like you can be a 365 party girl and then you can be a January sixer in the same breath. I would love to speak to her about that. Women's stories matter. ⁓ Anyway. Casey: She even says like, I'm a smart woman and I don't fully understand it myself. So like, haha, like, which was her trying to like boost Jen by being like, I'm smart and Jen's so much smarter than me. But really it's just outing her of like, yeah, intelligent people who like actually like want to know what she does cannot articulate it because it's not a real fucking job. Right. great. Women contain multitudes. Blake: Right. Cause it's not kosher. I would say the next thing that we learn, cause y'all, I mean, let's be honest, these reunions, I will say there are some, you know, God tier reunions in Housewives land, but I would say a lot of the time reunions are rehashing what we've, we've already told you this stuff. It's not worth rehashing. A lot of the stuff is, is right. So if we learn a new nugget and I think like, Casey: They just do. They just matter. Blake: They just matter. Thank you, Sarah, for that. Moving along to your point about imperfect time to bring things up, which like it absolutely was because Jenn is planning a like it's like a hip-hop golf surprise birthday party. Casey: Right, we're already reviewing it, so to be double reviewing it is a lot. It's at Topgolf, yeah, which like if you haven't been, it's like a golf simulation, like event space that you can like book out like a couple different like stalls or whatever. It looks like they have the whole place like so. Blake: This isn't a new nugget, but I do think it's very prevalent in the reunion is just like the the deep discomfort that you feel when you see Mary talk about her relationship or when you have her husband in this case because it was COVID they have the giant iPads like giant iPads behind the women which I actually get a kick out of because they will turn around It's like a very corporate vibe. It's not really like a fun, youthful, like party situation. No. Casey: Topgolf isn't like aesthetic, like I mean it's fun, like, but it's not a cute space, but they have it. Yeah, it's a lot. Blake: I wouldn't host a hip hop themed birthday party there. But Jenshaw does. It's a surprise. You know, we arrive, Sharif is surprised to see a bunch of white people in hip hop track suits. And Meredith is committed to never straying from her very specific brand of fashion. So you give her a theme and she says, Casey: Right. Blake: to talk to them, like they're like the actual husband behind them. But it's so funny because they're positioned so strangely. So the women are like this, like, come on, come on baby. And they're like trying to like talk to this giant screen. And it's like, guys, just what I'd rather not have. Casey: Yeah like one thing about me, i'm never gonna give a fuck about the husband section like when i see the husbands come out, whether it's in person or on a screen, i'm checking out, but Blake: Never. Well, well, well, I will say there is part of me that has to defend Michael Darby because that was good television. ⁓ I don't fucking care and then puts on a Fendi Trench Coat which is not even like for Meredith like ⁓ that's Meredith's version of hip-hop that's just like I think literally she was like what like ⁓ Fendi that kind of sounds like a hip-hop brand and then threw on whatever the fuck she wanted to like Meredith has never not worn literally exactly what she wanted to wear and Casey: You Okay, I wasn't thinking that was where you were going with that, but okay. No, no, no, no, I was more so thinking like, because my thought was if I was going to give it to anybody this reunion, it would be coach Shaw. Like I think he has like kind of a section. Blake: We'll not defend Michael Darby, don't clip that out of context, but he was... You know, he was... he was... Casey: Yeah. Right. Her and Lisa hate to see a theme coming at them. Like they do not want to dress up according to someone else's rules. Blake: ⁓ I mean... Whatever. Casey: like, because Jen involves him so often, so like, I'm fine with him having a moment, but then, like, then it kinda feels like, alright, well then you're opening the gate to all of them, because then they all- like, then Seth deserves a moment, which never- Seth never deserves a moment. Blake: But if you think about it, it's actually insane because this would have been the perfect time for her to wear a Brooks Marks tracksuit and promote it. Like of all the tracksuits, okay, yes, but like that, like if I'm advertising my son's, you know, one piece of clothing he'll ever create in his life, and that's like my big pride is like my son, you know, is dropping out of college to create a tracksuit. Maybe if someone's throwing a hip hop, Never. Well, my thing is just like, I'm saying if we're gonna get the husbands out, there are certain husbands who really do like fight. And that's when I'm like, okay, like this is part of it. Like Michael Darby, yeah, I want him out there. I want them to come after him. And I want him to... Casey: we've seen enough of those drag suits But why didn't she? but that bothers me too because i don't want to encourage husbands to be like on their bs to like try and get airtime you know what i mean like i almost don't want to endorse that Right. Blake: theme birthday party I might wear that tracksuit instead of a trench coat. But Michael Darby, Michael Darby's a different situation. I can't believe I'm doing this right now. But Michael Darby isn't, he's a different situation because he's not trying to get airtime. He's just disgusting and fascinatingly disgusting so that he does shit and then they need to bring him out to address the shit. But it's not like he's like trying to be a housewife or anything. But anywho, ⁓ Mary's relationship, Casey: Well, even track suits aside, my thought was, didn't your your son stay home from college to help you out with decisions like these outfits for filming? Like you couldn't have gotten a second opinion on the Fendi overcoat, like that she never takes off. Like she is literally like she has a button up to the top and she looks ridiculous. Well, yes. Yeah, he's so big golem. Blake: but maybe. Casey: I agree, yeah. Blake: To the top. All she's missing is like a fedora, honestly. Casey: Yeah. Reunion is boring overall. Literally. And everyone else is in cheap hip-hop, know, like spirit week hip-hop type costumes. Whitney's in an Amazon colorful tracksuit with a bra underneath it, open jacket, you know the vibes. That's kind of the general look of most of the people there. And we get- Blake: is the reunion was exhausting. We don't really learn much. Mary and her husband have obviously a strange relationship, which thankfully we don't see as much as we continue forward. ⁓ Yeah, Amazon, yeah. Casey: Yeah. Which is intentional. I almost feel like Mary's one of those housewives that like we all have this and like both her castmates and us as fans have this like inherent respect for her. I think just because of her like general demeanor and like her whole like church, like first lady, like, you know, right? Like that's what, what she build up, what she builds up. But in general, like I, I think certain housewives get that not from everybody, but from like the GP, again, the general public, like people like. Blake: You Like I said, it's a bunch of white people dressing for a hip hop theme. White people from Utah. Whatever you're gonna imagine is exactly what we're seeing. Casey: It is. That was a really funny description. Blake: She's a first lady. Casey: at Topgolf. The hip-hop, the white people hip-hop party at Topgolf. Blake: Sharif Sharif his family I Think that's it Sharif and his family are the only black people there. I think that was it At that point but they and they do start dancing which is also another component of this that's like, okay, okay actually so it's like it's Whitney dancing ⁓ and Then Jen trying to out dance her Jen objectively not as good of a dancer Casey: Yeah, and probably in the whole state at that moment in time. And Mary is one of those people, whereas if this was Whitney, who was married to her step-grandpa, like, she would be literally annihilated and flayed alive and, like, ran off the show, but, like, Mary... Blake: They would have, they would have like a heavy metal version of, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Casey: But like, Mary, like we can't do anything. And like, even when I'm watching it, like I'm like starting to be like, God, this is like difficult to watch and like kind of like a very fucked up situation. Like it makes me feel uncomfortable. But like it's Mary. Like, so we're just going to let her do her thing. Like it's her at the end of day, it's her life and it's already done. Like if it makes me uncomfortable as a viewer, like that's not really my business. Like, you know, it's the same thing as the women around her. It's not really your business. Blake: but because she's not white, she's convinced that she's better than Whitney. And in a lot of situations, I would say yes, usually the person who's not white tends to have better rhythm than the white person, but not here. And look, I'm not saying Whitney was the best dancer I've ever seen, but it's relative for a party at Topgolf in Utah. And Whitney happened to be... Casey: She's better, yeah. Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Well... Casey: And it's like... Blake: There is an element of it too where it's like... Casey: But also like Whitney's just the young hoe of the group. Like she's the hot one. She's the party girl. she... Yeah, exactly. Like roll the music. Roll the fucking music because you know our girl is gonna bust a move. So like Jen, just like let her have her title. Like again, it's the Ashley Darby footprint that she's stepping into. Like, and she's the young hoe. Like she's gonna, she's gonna stand, a headstand and shake her ass because that's her role in this group. Blake: There was definitely like, grooming and like, she has ⁓ deep trauma involved. Like, it's not even just like, let her do what she wants to do. It's like, we're, we can't approach a situation that has like, so many layers of like, trauma and problems. it's not, we'd rather just not talk about it. ⁓ Because, I mean, I don't want to get into it. I would say the best part of this reunion is obviously, Casey: Yeah, something. Blake: Right, poll dancer. The ya ya ya ya, ya ya ya ya ya. Right. Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Blake: You Young Hoes Cook Everything on High. Have you seen that tweet? There we go, weather. Whitney and Heather, bad weather. Spin the truth, destroy. or what is it? Spin the truth, tornado, destroy. Like, I will say. Casey: Like, yeah, like, or like that song that's like it's like young hearts, but like people have been using as like young hoes run free. Like that's Whitney right now. And Lisa is like so judgmental of Whitney's dancing. I mean, like, I get it. Like we all kind of have that thought when a girl starts like doing the splits and twerking in an event, you're like, OK, sis, get out of the circle. But. tornado destroy did anyone ever say like bad weather or good weather before that or like did she literally like invent that Blake: Hahaha! She's... yeah. Wait. No, she- that was the first time I heard it, but I just remembered that I said- I said Heather and Jen bad hen. Casey: Yay. Blake: It's a little much, but it's clear that Lisa is coming from a place of annoyance, that Whitney looks hot doing what she's doing. That's what it is. Casey: Wait, because I was laughing out loud at that note and also it was like, I remember it was like a year ago that I even realized like she was doing like the word play. Like I like didn't even get that. Like someone sent me a message like that, like bad head. And I was like, ⁓ it's like the switching around of like the front of the names, like bad weather. It works out that way too, which is crazy. ⁓ But like, yeah, bad head is hilarious. ⁓ yeah Lisa was like, John, don't look at Whitney, like, get away from Whitney, like, our husbands are here and that's what she, like, sticks it on she's like, in front of people's husbands, like, just say you don't trust your dirty, dusty Utah men and don't blame it on my young hoe Whitney, like, she's having a nice time Blake: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I think that the other important part of this reunion is that ⁓ we find out that Heather's best friend Jen has called her Shrek and a manatee? Which, you know, I guess like if there wasn't enough already to not be friends with her anymore, yeah, let's just like call her fat in so many different ways and then hope that that's fine. And you can tell when a person, specifically in the, I mean I would say like gay men and women, like you can tell when their like issue quote unquote is, well like they'll frame it as like, I just think this is really trashy or whatever, but like the way they're saying it is like I'm. Casey: ⁓ and this makes me upset too, because this is another like, where like, you know, let you in on the let you on the hosts internal life. I also relate to Heather here because like I am a tall. Blake: It's not, this isn't the right time for this. It's like, wow, it's so trashy. And like internally they're thinking like she looks really good and like I don't, I'm jealous and I'm envious and I'm mad that she looks that good. And I need to like come up with a reason that other people could potentially agree with to like make this seem like a bad thing. And that's, that was what Lisa was doing. Casey: bigger framed woman as I have been my entire life. I've had periods in my life where I've been bigger than I am now and you know, whatever as many people do. But like, I've had friends who have thrown the bigger girl shade at me throughout our friendship and when I was less confident, when I was more of an insecure person, I let it slide like shit like this. And it's like, it's sad to watch because people who have that confidence watch it they're like, what do you mean? Like, how is that not enough? for sure. To like, it as me caring about some broader moral principle when it's really about that, like, I'm jealous that I don't have the body and the looks to like be dancing like that right now. Blake: Right. I mean... Right, like Lisa Barlow in Morals, I mean, we don't see them together in the same room quite often and it's really funny that she chose to say it then. Cause also it's not like Whitney was like bent over in like a thong showing her like, you know, you know. Casey: for you to end your friendship. How are you friends with someone who's calling you that? That's enough to be enemies with someone. How do you reconcile that? that's what anybody feels like watching Heather, but she's clearly diluted herself into this dynamic of Jen's approval matters and she's in a cycle where Jen has to give her that affirmation. yeah, the Shrek manatee, Well, even like Sharif is like loving it. Like Sharif is having a great time. Like Jen's having a good time dancing with them. So it's like not the host nor the birthday boy nor the other guests are having an issue. So it's really just you like pipe down. And like this, this gets brought up at the reunion because like we won't end up talking about it when we get to that. But they like pulled, they roll footage and they're like, Lisa, is that not you doing a split right next to her? And literally it's Lisa right next to her in a split like. Blake: You're just being bitter. Casey: This girl hates you. Like this girl doesn't like you. Like if someone says that about you, they hate you. like oh so yeah you did want to be right next to her but she started pulling out moves that weren't in your repertoire and then you got pissed like Blake: Exactly. Like, she views you as her pawn and if you misbehave like she gets to treat you... Yeah. Casey: Like less than that. Like she views you as literal, nothing. Like she literally views you as dirt. Like that is like the lowest of the low. Blake: Then you got out danced by the young hoe, by the young hoe Whitney Rose. Casey: by a young hoe, which happens to all of us. It's her right of passage. Like, just accept it and let the hot girl shake her ass. Blake: I mean, if you're, if you could like in any situation, if it doesn't like, even if it's not weight related, it could be someone, you know, who's by all means like skinny or whatever, but it's like just the thought of somebody trying to put you down behind your back, find an aspect of you that they know you're insecure about and use that as like fodder for a conversation with somebody else. I mean, Hahaha! Also, it's so like it's crazy with these like housewives parties like The the production lights are so bright that it's like it doesn't like I don't understand how they are able to get into the flow and like the the mood of a party when they're drinking and dancing and like twerking or whatever and like the production lights are Like the most sterile white like doctor's office lighting Casey: Right. Blake: objectively that's I mean that like of all the things Jen has done that's enough right there Casey: Right. Blake: And I would have to say like all of these housewives deserve ⁓ an Oscar for the acting they have to do to stay in character as someone at a party when there's a light blaring this bright on them. It's actually insane, but that's beside the point. The main point of this party ⁓ is for Sharif to have a good time. So naturally Whitney decides that this is the right moment. Well, Casey: And again, it's like as a viewer you understand this because again regardless of Jen's behavior like we enjoy it as a viewer even though we know it's f'd up but even in that lens you can still understand ooh we would have appreciated at least a little bit of loyalty from you to Heather like that at least balances you out as a housewife and that balances you out as a woman as a housewife as a character on television nobody at home is sitting the for sure. Blake: Yeah, Jen talks about loyalty. Casey: Yeah. Blake: I don't know if Whitney decided. Whitney decided to have like five tequila sodas. And then what happened after that might not have been decision. It was just something she had no control over. So she... Casey: sort of. She decided that it was a moment to talk about something. they're feeling guilty for liking you because it's like, ⁓ she can be rude, but at least she has this really genuine friendship with Heather. At least she has this really genuine relationship with her family. Like, then you can balance it out with the crazy, which is how the best housewives get their claim. Like, they do something horrible, objectively rude and drunk and outlandish. And we're like, but you know, this is still our person that we know and that we know isn't like that. And Heather butts in and takes the statement away from her. So it wasn't even really her decision to deliver it in that way, but... Blake: Well, no, she was, well not in that way, yes, but she goes over to Jen to tell Jen that Mary said that Lisa and Meredith had expressed that they're afraid of Jen and can't speak to her about their issues with her. And so she like, she and Heather are like grabbing each other, stealing themselves, like, all right, it's time, let's go over. Casey: But with Jen you can't do that because she's insane on all fronts. ⁓ And I just feel like she gets away with it obviously like we've said, there's this like spell in the air and she apologizes to Heather at the reunion like. Blake: Yeah. So. Casey: backed into a corner basically like she's like okay fine like okay I guess I'll admit that I'm a like I was rude to you and like that I didn't treat you well and like but it's so forced like it's so hands against the wall like Heather has to literally Heather has to literally back her into that corner like she has to fight her all the way into that point so then her be like yes you're right I wasn't a good friend to you like she resisted the whole way so she's not like she really understands it so it's fully just for war Blake: This is like when it feels like a very sportsy environment because you see the player like Whitney you see her going Alright guys, like we're heading in huddle huddle like we're about to play we're about to do the game and then she's like, alright Yeah break and then she's like I'm going in and then she goes over to She goes over to gem but then Heather comes with her and I don't blame Heather for just kind of saying it because Whitney They were acting like ⁓ Whitney's just afraid to say it. No Whitney was really drunk which is how it's been the whole season with her. Casey: Yeah. appearances and that's how they end it and like if you were again anybody but Heather you'd think this should continue and you should drop that but for Heather that's enough because she like deludes herself into believing that it's real even though it's so clearly not real Blake: Yeah. and she was stumbling over her words and she like didn't know how to say it. So Heather just came out and said like they're telling Mary that they're afraid of you. And at the point by the time that it comes out, by the time that that information comes out to Jen, she's already pissed off because she's been like hung out to dry for so long. She's been like given blue balls. She's been edged like on like, what are you about to say? Cause Whitney is saying like, so I have, she's Casey: really drunk. Blake: And I think that essentially we're at the end of the reunion, but it is important to note that the entire time that the women are confronting Jen about her various bad behaviors, she does ⁓ bring up race and she does bring up being the only person of color. Well, Mary's there and we conveniently don't talk about how Mary... Casey: yeah it was like a long time and she's also super drunk too like her and whitney are both shitfaced and heather too probably Blake: Yeah, yeah, but it's like it's like if someone if someone spends five minutes Saying essentially like I have something to tell you that you're not going to be happy about and just kept keeps rephrasing that and building up to it and building up to it after five minutes You're like, what the fuck are you gonna tell me? So Jen's pissed off already Then Heather comes out and says it and then obviously Jen ⁓ In reaction to being told that people are afraid of her, you know throws like a ⁓ Casey: She always is when Jen does this. Blake: how Mariette doesn't act the same way that Jen does, but Jen acts like, you know, this is my defense mechanism. ⁓ And I, Casey, you brought up, you Googled Jen Shaw reunion season one. And the first thing that came up was someone on Reddit saying as a woman of color, I don't think Jen gets to bring up the woman of color card because she is actually unhinged and crazy. And I think that... Casey: Yeah, that pisses me off bad. Blake: fucking King Kong style meltdown starts screaming and then we get Heather and Meredith over and ⁓ they're both kind of like what the fuck like we didn't say that we don't think that's true why are you screaming and Whitney why did you say that to us ⁓ and it's just like this whole kerfuffle and then Casey: like right, nobody's mislabeling her as an aggressive woman of color like it's, it's, you know, it's like when right, you watch other Bravo shows and like a black woman is talking in a regular tone and the white people are like you're attacking me, like this is aggressive and it's like okay, you're doing something harmful here like this is actually just like people just labeling what's right in front of them as accurate like tantrum, Blake: Right, you're actually being beyond aggressive. You're being crazy. Casey: Well, one thing about this that I think you have to call into question because when this goes on, this becomes an issue for weeks after this. Like this is a big deal. This whole issue, involves everybody obviously besides Mary, everyone else is involved. That's the president. So it's a big group conflict. On one hand, I want to say this is beautiful for Whitney. It is. Blake: It's the clearest example of a person being absolutely like ⁓ eruptive and insane. ⁓ So that happens and it was, it's funny because Jen like storms off ⁓ when she brings this up and Whitney like, she like, Whitney like gets like deep in her chair and she goes, she calls Justin, she goes, the racist allegations just happened. Casey: raw mess creation in its original form. Like this is her starting the craft that she will refine over the next six seasons into a much more efficient way. But this is Whitney when she knows what she needs to do, but she doesn't quite know how to do it in the best way. Like this is like first season Housewife play at its finest. Like Whitney got that info and had the right, the right instinct and was like, I know what to do with this. Blake: And it's funny cuz it's like it's like they talked about it They're like so this is gonna this is gonna come up and I just need your support and she's like it just happened Justin and then we end the reunion with This was We end the reunion with Andy going He looks straight into Heather's eyes and goes. I know you all I know you all love meat in Utah So we're gonna end the reunion with them Right. Casey: Dude. Blake: This is unpaid promotion, by the way. ⁓ A meatball on a stick because that's been like I guess Heather at two parties ate a meatball on a stick It feels very like Casey: But then she got too drunk and messed up her plan. And Heather really messed up her plan, in my opinion, because I think Whitney's intention was probably to go to Jen and be like, hey, Meredith and Lisa talk behind your back to Mary about you, and they say that they don't agree with you and that they side with Mary and that they're afraid of your reaction or they're afraid. But that wouldn't have been the sticking point. With everybody being drunk, Blake: Many such cases. Casey: one party and the other one was a lamb like lollipop like a rack of lamb and somebody wrote in and asked about this during the reunion and said heather like what's your fascination with meat sticks and shady andy is like let's leave that in and then bring meatballs at the end just to humiliate the big girl Blake: It's just... It's just an hors d'oeuvre at the party. It's not like... Casey: it's like that clip of miscellaned visage talking to nino west that's like and you're big and you have big shoulders like that's what andy's doing to heather with this like he already asked the viewer question earlier and then brings out the meatballs like they don't all drink like give him a fucking drink Whitney like can't get the statement out and Heather cuts her off and is like, Lisa and Meredith are afraid of you. And boom, like bomb drop. So Heather skates free on this one. And even like as everything starts to like burst up, she goes either in a confessional or maybe even like in the moment, she's like, I'm just gonna run away. Cause like, I'm a little scared by all of this. And she literally evacuates the scene. Nowhere to be found as Heather until after. Blake: You have broad shoulders. No. Like, no, literally, because every other reunion you want to do a shot and now you want to look at Heather Gay and say let's have a meatball and a stick. Andy Cohen, you're going to hell. Well, Jen is a scary person. Jen is more unhinged than I remember. ⁓ Like Jen, Jen, like I think that I initially had the impression that Jen's reactions were put on for the show and watching it back, I mean, I think maybe a little bit of that's true. She felt like she could put on a show for like the cameras, but I think a lot of it is she had Casey: Right! That's what I'm saying! Like, that's what I mean, like... Fuck you, dude! Like, he's shady, and I texted this to you, but now that we're just, like, wrapping up, he says to Whitney at one point, he goes, ⁓ your boobs are so much bigger, like, they look way bigger than they did in that hot tub scene, like, at the beginning of the season, like... Okay, pervert! Like, just because you're a gay man doesn't mean you get to, like, specifically reference the only scene where her bare boobs are out. Like, don't be weird! No, it's bad. Blake: Ha ha ha! Like stick, stick to penis, stick to penis. You know that better. deep-seated, you know, she was hurting from her marriage. I think she was lashing out at anyone who wasn't, you know, Sharif. ⁓ And I think that she genuinely, like, needed anger management. I don't think she's ever, she's, I don't think she's ever had to practice emotional regulation and... Casey: I literally was like, ugh, I feel violated. Why is he like, ref- You could just be like, oh my god, they look bigger, which is also in itself a little bit like, don't comment. But you didn't have to reference the specific scene, the one scene where her boobs are out, fucking weirdo. I know, and I'm against that. Yeah, there's something. Blake: I mean if there's one thing Andy's gonna do is he's gonna ask women about the work they've gotten done. Which is not even the most interesting question that you could ask when it comes to these shows. And also like, I mean we can probably just see with our eyes and move on. We don't really need to have a conversation about it. Casey: Yeah. Blake: You know, we will get into what her reasoning for having to be such a volatile individual is and it's bullshit. ⁓ But I watching it back, like I get why people don't want her back on the show now. And I used to kind of be at the camp of like, yeah, bring her back. Of course. ⁓ And maybe she has like taken the time in jail to fix all that, but it's like absolutely not something that you can watch for that long without getting like almost exhausted by the sheer amount of Casey: Also like, okay, can we start with the women asking you what you've gotten done in the last year, Andy? Like, ⁓ wait, nobody likes that fucking question because it's embarrassing. Like, obviously nobody wants that to be the first thing they're asked out of a humor. feel like they feel their best self. Like they're feeling good. They feel pussed. They come out. They're like, let me sit down. Andy's like, I see your facelift. Like, all right, fuck you, dude. Like, yeah, I got a fucking facelift. Blake: Right. Or what you haven't gotten done? Casey: Right. Blake: right. Casey: It's exhausting, yeah. Blake: energy it takes to like be that angry at something and it's like a literal a literal zero to a hundred like you're Like yeah, mean, can we just, can I just have it and move in my life with a new face? Casey: Well, and it's like, I got this for the network that you put me on that pressures women into feeling like they have to look their best, like, thank you for catching me in the catch-all that you put me in. Whatever. But like, that's really the- that's it with the reunion. And like, there are like some like little bits of it that are very like Salt Lake that are funny. ⁓ like Jake- Jake. Blake. Blake wrote- Blake- Blake- And there's like a point this season where all of the women get really fed up with her. Like, there's a point where like she really doesn't have a huge ally anywhere and everybody's a little bit like, you're exhausting girl. And like, again, our favorite line, we'll get to that. But she's exhausting. And for some reason, Mary really triggers her and this gets correctly identified by everybody in the world because it's obvious. Blake: Yeah. It's because Mary didn't apologize the way that she wanted Mary to apologize. Mary apologized, well, I don't even remember if Mary apologized, but I think Jen wanted Mary to acknowledge that the statement she made was in reference to someone that she cares a lot about. I don't think... Casey: accurately noticed this and I did too but I didn't really think about it but Jen, like in her like private moments in the back is fanning herself with this big like drag queen fan that says bye Felicia on it like during like the reunion breaks which I think is funny and that can be like kind of like lowkey the closing thought because nothing like crazy really happens like there's no like groundbreaking like moves me like they just go over the same bullshit for three parts it could have definitely been two we said this but Mary did apologize, but it wasn't like a throw. Again, it wasn't Jen's specific apology that she wants about it. Yeah. Blake: Yeah, I think that... a nuanced right. Exactly. So that's why she just she can't like She can't go to Mary and say hey look. Thank you for apologizing ⁓ But I also just wanted to like say I feel like you're not understanding why it hurt me You know what I mean? Like she can't like express that so what she does is she just keeps being mad and pretending like she hasn't gotten an apology Until she gets the right one Yeah. I think the reunion could have been two parts. I think it generally was a lot of the same rehashed bullshit. think that closing thoughts ⁓ as a debut, like revisiting the debut, because this is the first time I think I've rewatched season one. I think that two things are true at once, which they often are. ⁓ Number one being that I think that this was a pretty mid season in terms of Casey: Yeah, I wonder too if there's an aspect of it that is coming from the fact that obviously Jen, her tagline is I'm Queen Bee and MVP. She obviously wants to think of herself as the leader, the center, the royal, the main attraction of anything that she's a part of. And Mary was the one who like basically like Blake: the like drama and the pacing and the ⁓ way that everything was laid out. think that the drama was overhashed. I think that the pacing was very awkward. I think the Mary component where she's part of it and then she's not part of it. There's a lot of things that just weren't consistent. But I think that the reason that they did make such a big debut and it's still true, you know, on rewatch these women are Casey: caused Real Housewives of Salt Lake City to become a thing. Like they heard about Mary first. Like, so like Anne, Mary is the only other person really that probably someone like Jen could identify that is in that position to be top dog. Especially going off of what you said of Mary then doesn't back down to her instantly, which is literally episode one is the hospital flight. Like literally instantly she does not back down to her and we're set up with this clashing perspectives, even though Yeah. Blake: Yeah. themselves very interesting and very fiery and very electric. Casey: Yeah, they have very interesting personalities and like unique aspects to their lives that you wouldn't see in like your run-of-the-mill city of like suburban rich like housewife type profiles. Like they did kind of break that mold of like the like cookie cutter housewife rich white lady. Like not that these aren't rich white ladies, but like they're a little bit more like eccentric white ladies like besides Mary and Jen who you know, our fellow black Tongan. Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Casey: Like, obviously Mary is 10,000 times better and like, I'm not saying that they're the same in like an aggressive way, but they do have some similar qualities. Like, Mary also has some trouble seeing when she's wrong about certain things. they both like, can have like tempers that go to the like nasty, like not just like staying to like the argument. So I think it's a mix of all those things. ⁓ And that Jen like, I think definitely thought, and you said this to me earlier when we were texting, like, Blake: Yeah. or communicating well. Casey: ⁓ She's every race. ⁓ But they are interesting. Even when the season is more mid, I would put it, if we're talking a five-star type situation, I'd put it a three and a half to a four. So it's solid. And again, that's what I mean. Even at most mid, it's still enjoyable. And when you consider it in the context of this is their debut, yeah, this is a pretty damn... Blake: whatever she needs to be for the argument. Casey: that like this was like during like the 2020 time-ish and like Jen definitely also thought that she would get some brownie points by like exposing Mary as like a racist like a ⁓ what's the world is it internal no ⁓ what am i thinking of yeah internalize yeah like she really thought she was going to get Mary on that charge like you can tell ⁓ so i think it's all that Blake: Yeah It was pretty big, yeah. Casey: good debut and there's only five of them for most of it because Mary like removes herself from most of the season when you think about it like so there's really only five of them which puts a lot of like Blake: like having internalized racism. Yeah, well this was this was the peak 2020 COVID Black Lives Matter like all of that stuff was happening. So the discourse, which we haven't even gotten to it, but I mean, we'll just say it like Jen's whole thing is that she had to grow up being tough and having to fight as like a person of color in Utah. And obviously, Yeah. Casey: the legwork onto each of their shoulders. Like I was thinking that during that like weird hypnotist thing, I'm like, low key the five of them showed up ready to work. Cause like this wasn't like a lot of ladies and there wasn't a lot of proceeding drama. Like they had to like drum up something again mid season and then they did so it was a little, it was a little rough. Blake: And they did. Casey: But for our first season, they dug it out the mud. And I think debuting for Housewives in the modern era is a lot harder than it used to be because people had less expectation. And now we have lot of greats to live up to. So if your premiere isn't good, we're like, oh, you're no New York, you're no Atlanta. Whereas in the beginning, it was like, oh, we're learning about all these women. So who cares? There wasn't as much of a comparison aspect at play. Blake: I think that it's one thing to like code, you know, words like aggressive, ⁓ you know, say things like that against, you know, black women or any person of color when they are doing something that wouldn't be considered aggressive for anyone else to do. The issue is that if you watch Jen on the show, she is the definition of for sure. No, definitely. think that I stand by it. This is one of their weaker seasons, but at the same time, we needed to... had a condensed schedule. They gave us enough where we were interested. for that, I thank them. ⁓ Closing thoughts, ⁓ I fucking ⁓ love Whitney. I love Mary. ⁓ Lisa Barlow... Lisa Barlow... explosive like I don't I think aggressive is not even like getting to the full picture but okay we need to wait let me do it we need to bring it back to the the party and this is the this is like very ⁓ Casey: Yeah. Yeah. Blake: Like to your point, Whitney doesn't know how to do it, but she knows what to do. She doesn't know that this probably isn't the right time to then add on to what she's already done and then tell Meredith that Jen has been making insinuations about her marriage and that she's been seeing another man while she and Seth have been separated. Like Jen's already about to explode like Mount Vesuvius and then you're going to go over to Meredith and be like, by the way, Jen. Casey: Yes! Yes! Blake: She and I have a long ways to go. Meredith, I ended this season loving her. I have since come to not like her. Heather, same thing. ⁓ And Jen, obviously a non-factor because she goes to prison. So... ⁓ Casey: Yeah, agreed. Right. I would quickly say that my personal season would be Whitney. Blake: has actually been coming for you too. Casey: who also is very volatile, Meredith. Like we don't quite know that yet, but Meredith also like freaks out when she gets information like this. And this is maybe the first, if not the first, but one of the very first appearances we get of Meredith's like drunk, zanned out, angry combo voice. Like it's a little bit. Heather, Jen, wait, hold on, Whitney, Heather, Jen, Mary, Lisa Meredith would be my personal, maybe Meredith above Lisa this season for once. Normally it'd be Lisa above Meredith, so maybe that's why I'm saying that. Blake: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. better be. I call it her Zen accent. Thank you. Casey: But I think that's personal feelings and objective performance. think Whitney really does the majority of the carrying of this season when you actually boil it down and look at it. If you wanna put it to strictly objective who carried the most, it would be Jen because she is at the center of the most stuff. But she's insane. And if Mary had been there on one of the last few events, she would have probably been number one. But since they iced her out, she falls down the... Ooh, that's beautiful. ⁓ It's a little bit like talking in cursive is another way you could describe it. She gets very like, what were you saying about my family and my business and my earrings and whatever it may be, my bath bombs? ⁓ And I will say she goes for the, I'm disengaging from this again. And she hits this one more time this season. Blake: Yeah. Well yeah, she's the most evil. Casey: So it is giving to me that the Brooks Marks the Brooks Marks School of housewifery is going on behind the scenes. And he said, that's a quotable line, mama. Make sure you send that one in. Make sure no matter how many times this goes off, let's get a couple in there in case they edit it out. Like, let's get that in there because this is number two. We had it originally. And then we get it one more time, which just to me is a little like. the ranks, or she gets more so iced out by her conflict with Jen and nobody being willing to stand up to Jen. It's not an intentional icing out, but it's a passive. Blake: Yeah. You Well, that concludes our rewatch of season one, everyone. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for ⁓ going on this wild ride with us. ⁓ Make sure to give us a like, subscribe, ⁓ follow, DM us on our Instagram if you want us to watch any type of season, or if you want us to focus on a specific theme, we usually like to switch it up. Like, we'll go on a season rewatch and then we like to go like a specific theme of, you know, ⁓ a type of, you know, Well, I mean, yeah, we get it maybe one more time in the season, but then after she realizes it's been picked up, she fucking bludgens it to death. ⁓ Casey: ⁓ yeah. Right. ⁓ well that's obvious. This at least is during, so she doesn't quite know yet. But I think that that's pre-planned. Because it's like the same like, I'm done engaging. Like I think Meredith had her strategy ready to go for the rumors and nastiness. Like she was like, me and my husband are cheating. Let me get ready with my strategy for the show. Like I gotta be ready to go. Yep. Blake: Yeah. whatever franchise we actually do have. We can probably tease it right now, why don't we tease it? We're gonna do Real Hot Toys of Beverly Hills, we're gonna do Lisa Rinna versus Kim Richards, and then we're gonna do Yolanda Hadid versus Lisa Rinna. So we're gonna do a theme thematic next two episodes diving into those feuds, which I think are huge for the universe. So. You Hahaha! And just to top it all off, ⁓ put a great cherry on top of the party that Jen threw for her husband, a surprise party that she put so much into, ⁓ she ends it by throwing a glass of tequila, whatever she was drinking, because she's just so mad that Lisa or Meredith might have told Mary that they're afraid of her. Casey: ⁓ I'm excited. It's a screwing of time. Blake: Yeah, I mean like, subscribe, do all the things, show us some support, it means a lot. We thank everyone who's been listening and we'll see you guys next week where we mention it all again, again. Casey: all the things. See you then! Blake: Bye! ⁓ To me that's information I think I could probably like put in my pocket for maybe the next day. Cool, not happy about that but whatever, gonna have a good time. She ruins the party. ⁓ Ruins the party so much so that her husband stops talking to her for like a couple days. ⁓ Which brings us to... Right. Casey: yeah, she says he like, isn't come home, which is, to me, feels like a little extreme, but i guess when you're like an adult and your wife acts that way, like, that's a big, big deal, like- Blake: Well, she's, yes. And so that brings us to spa day, spa tub day. Whitney is being blamed by Jen for Sharif's desire to not return home. Casey: right. it is entirely on whitney's shoulders for the dissolution of her marriage, it's the jump we've taken now, like, it is- whitney has broken them up, like, it is all whitney's fault. Blake: So So so Jen Throws a glass starts screaming at everyone runs inside of the party grabs Shreve and says we're going home rips him upstairs Which none of that had to happen? Casey: Yeah Blake: Like actually nobody had to know that they were having a little housewives moment, but she did that and then Sharif I think someone asked Sharif like what's wrong and on camera he goes like she's drinking and doing some stupid shit over there and so that like that so Sharif's mad and so now Whitney is at fault for bringing all of it up. So Whitney feels like okay, I'm gonna bring her to this ⁓ It's allegedly a spa or something, but it's just Casey: Yeah. Blake: It's just three like discarded old ⁓ bathtubs that are like that are hammered into the side of a mountain. Casey: which you don't even see right away, like when you, when they walk in, like, and I, I feel like I'm like pretty, ⁓ I'm not like too prissy. Like I could show up to most things and be down to like clown. Like I'm usually like, yeah, let's do it. But I, think I'd be a little alarmed if I rolled up to this establishment. It's like rusted buildings in like a mountainous, like desert. When Heather's walking in, she's like, is that a literal tumbleweed? It's like desolate. Blake: Yeah. I would feel like... Do you know like I don't know you you didn't grow up on the on the West Coast but I don't know if like they do this in all schools or whatever but like whenever I Actually, you probably didn't because it was basically like whenever we would learn about like the gold rush We would do these like little like fools gold like mining activities and like water and stuff right, so like Casey: I know like what you mean, yeah. Blake: This reminds me of like the field trip like you'd go to like some random fucking area in the desert there'd be a little stream and then everyone would be like sifting through these rocks and it'd be like I got some gold but that's like that's that's where they're in the spa that's where they're in these bathtubs ⁓ I yes it's very Utah Casey: for sure. Yes! Which is so Whitney, but for an apology tour for Jen Shaw, again, you kinda gotta do a little bit of a thought before this and think. Blake: You gotta go to the hamam. You gotta go to the hamam, the Four Seasons. Casey: I was just the writz, like, wherever else. Like, this isn't gonna help your case. Blake: Whatever it takes, whatever it takes, you're about to be killed by Jen Shaw, girl. She's about to like rip your jugular out. So maybe take her to the Hamam. But anyway, so... ⁓ She took it for granted. She didn't realize. ⁓ Whitney doesn't think she did anything wrong. She doesn't think that bringing it up... She actually thinks she's being a good friend to Jen by telling Jen... Casey: Yeah Your life is on the line, Whitney! Don't take her to the baths! Like... Blake: that Lisa and Meredith were talking about you to Mary, but Jen is pissed off that it was brought up at that event. And to that I say, shouldn't have brought it up at the event, but that doesn't mean that the party would have been ruined just because she brought it up. It's that you reacted so freaking insane that you erupted and then that's Whitney's fault? Casey: Right. Uh-uh. Yes. This is the issue. Like, if we had dropped you, if you had been in the fourth tub next to them saying this, like, that would be what we needed for this argument. Like, but we don't have you in the fourth tub, so no reasoning gets shelled out because Heather, and I will say like Heather, has more, ⁓ Blake: The fourth top. Casey: like gumption and more awareness of her dynamic with Jen than I remember. Like she does like push back more than I thought she would have if I had like had to describe how season one went. ⁓ But she's also not saying like something like this, which is really all that needs to be said. Like Whitney can apologize for bad timing and for like, you know, it's kind of, there's gray areas about like sharing shit talk with friends when another friend shit talks to you. But generally the rule of thumb is share it if it's like a big deal and it could really hurt them, but do it at like the right time. Like don't do it in like a way that you're going to create drama. Now that's true for regular people. That's not really true for housewives. So you have to give, viewers have to give Whitney a pass. Jen and company don't. But the big issue of this whole thing is that Jen wants Whitney to apologize for ruining the party and for ruining her marriage basically. And Whitney is like, I didn't, I didn't do those things. Like Blake: Yeah. Hahaha Casey: Yeah, I can take of accountability for bringing up something at the wrong time, but like that is on you. Like that's what's so insane about all of this is Jen is completely trying to avoid responsibility for the whole thing. Like that's why she's so mad at Whitney. Blake: Yeah, Jen wants Whitney to say, I'm sorry that what I did prompted your reaction, which prompted your husband to be upset at you, which is not how ⁓ accountability works. there are, you know, there's, are nuances to situations. So in that situation, you would say, I'm sorry that I brought it up at a time. That was inappropriate. I should have probably waited till the next day. We should have gotten coffee I should have just told you hey, I want to let you know That's the extent of what I can apologize for you could have you know said Whitney, please don't bring that up now. Don't get me upset I'm a little bit annoyed that you brought it up, but let's have a good time and we'll talk about that later but then you chose You chose to throw a glass at Casey: It's my husband's birthday. Let's table this. Right. That's what an adult would do. Blake: almost a cameraman it was kinda close from the angle of the angle the angle of what where the glass landed and the camera was you might have assaulted a man and that's what you chose to do and you want Whitney to uh to a like it's just that's how it works that's not how works I don't know if she's mad she starts she splashes Casey: people towards human beings. And she's so mad in these tubs like I mean she was kind like Blake: the cameraman and the producers and then she goes, that's what you get for filming me in the tub. What? ⁓ yeah. Casey: Wait, play that clip. We have that one. Blake: Did she say Jen stay in the pool? Casey: wait wait two immediate thoughts that i literally didn't even think of until just now watching this number one jen sing to the producers that's what happens when you film me in the fucking bathtub acting like they're like intruding on a private moment Blake: Like they're invading her privacy. And also, by the way, you could see her like gear up to like think like, ⁓ I'm going to splash them. I'm going to splash them. Like she was so mad. She was like, like she. Casey: And then her pulling her wedgie out of her ass while she storms out of the bath is crazy. mean, granted, I would have to do the same. Like, I would too, because that's just real. But like, ⁓ girl, you didn't think you didn't think that moment through. Blake: I noticed. It just really tampers the like, the heat of the moment down. It's like, you were storming out of there and now you're pulling shit out of your ass, girl. But- Casey: I'm gonna drown you, bitch is so funny. Like, I can't even imagine what I would say if one of my friends, like, pulled that out in an argument. pardon? Blake: I'm just... I just feel like... I just feel like how... how... Okay, I... we'll get to it, but that, like, there's just nothing that... Look, I understand... Casey: Yeah Loki just get to it, like what is it? I feel like- Loki just mentioned it all again, we say that too much. Blake: ⁓ Well, it's going back to like her whole thing about how she has to be hardened because she's a woman of color in Utah and so I'm like every time she freaks out I think about that and I'm like No, well not this way like you're not being productive You're just like you're just not able to engage in a conversation where someone doesn't immediately say Casey: Yes. bright. Blake: Exactly what you want 100 % I'm so wrong and you're extremely right and that's the answer to this like Whitney is Coming up with a little bit of like a nuanced engagement on this topic and she's like I'll fucking drown you and Fuck the producers too. Don't fill me in the tub. I don't know why I'm giving her that accent, but it's like it's like there's no way in which you need to be like Just straight up like like fully violent Casey: Right. Yeah. Blake: towards people immediately. It's like the drop of a hat and she like loses it. That to me doesn't hold water. No pun intended. Casey: Right. Well, it almost makes you feel, I was just gonna say, holding water, Jen whiffing it to the producers. But I almost just lost what I was gonna say, because I'm thinking about the water with the producers again. But I think, yeah, I think that's all the tea on the situation. again, thinking about applying Jen Shah to real life, imagining if I acted even a fraction of the way that she acted, I've been... Blake: Yeah. Casey: to quote Vicky Gunnvilsson, nailed to the cross like Jesus was for things far less than what Jen Shaw is doing to her friends. So it's wild to watch this and like, yeah, in any real life situation, nobody would engage with this person. But then again, they were in real life. Like her shot squad was doing it. So it's crazy. People will for whatever reason. Blake: Right, right. And I think it's... They were. But I... I think it's insane to that point for Jen to feel like she's always the one who gets the short... What's it called? Short shafted? The short shaft? The short... Shafted, the short end of the stick, like whatever. Because, like her whole thing is always like, feel like everyone was doing this and I'm the only one who got the brunt of it, whatever. Casey: short end of the stick. Shafted, think, just a shafted, yeah. Blake: ⁓ not true, but also the fact that like you think people are treating you poorly, but it seems like you're able to, you know, shove people, throw glasses at people, splash people, and storm out and aww, hey baby, do you know what's going on? Do know what we're talking about? Her cat wants to mention it all again. Unfortunately, she can't speak, so, so she is... Casey: Yeah. You are the talk. Loki, Loki, he agrees with you. ⁓ Blake: ⁓ he? Fuck. I see, I thought I didn't misgender you at the beginning of the podcast, but I did misgender your cat. Damn it. Alright, we're gonna end the recording guys, bye. That's the end. Pack it up. But to my point... Casey: No! We got you! Whatever. Blake: It's like, it's like she feels like people treat her so poorly, but I'm like the fact that people continuously return to give you more chances and to give you grace and to give you conversation after conversation about behavior that like you learn is bad, like by the time you're 12 is just wild. ⁓ But let's move on to Vegas. Why don't you lead us into Vegas? Casey: ⁓ my god, it's wild. Well, right, and so they- they make up at the tubs. Like, Whitney goes over and gets in Jen's tub, and she's like, I am so sorry, Jen. And like, again, I think Whitney- I think she would agree on this. think she takes pretty good accountability in most situations. Like, she's usually level-headed enough to be able to be like, yes, I did something a little bit wrong there. And again, is probably aware that she's creating mess for a show, so knows she can be like, sorry. Like, yeah, that is a little bit foul. So she knows that. And so they make up. accepts her apology. She says, like, I'm not going to forget it because you went after my family, which she never did. Jen went after her own family. Crazy. But... Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Hahaha Casey: Jen says, I'm not gonna forget it, but I accept her apology. And this is kind of all we get resolution-wise before Vegas. Whitney is like, you know, things have been so tense, and I know that everybody kinda fucking hates me right now, but let me throw a girl's trip to Vegas. ⁓ She texts the ladies. Meredith and Lisa are immediately on the fence. They're like, Meredith is like, text back. Vegas isn't exactly my scene, but I guess I'm in. Blake: You Casey: Like, okay, whatever. And Lisa doesn't answer at all, and she makes her way there by herself as a dig to Whitney for Whitney bringing up her name to Jen. So, you know, it's reciprocal for the party. So Lisa ends up going, but she, is there for work, and she pretends like she's there for another reason than this trip and tries to throw it in Whitney's face. No, she does all their activities, which is what Whitney says to her. Blake: Right, but we don't see her do anything work related. Liar, fraud, narcissist, moving on. Casey: Which like right like people like want to play in Whitney's face just because they like other housewives more than her But it's like you can't deny that she's right like Lisa's doing her dirty like I know and I'm not saying you like you know I'm I'm protective over my my Sheila Blake: I like Whitney. I like Whitney. No, I think Whitney gets a lot of hate. ⁓ I think that Whitney gets a lot of hate and I think that she at times can do things that are like a little bit annoying, whatever. ⁓ But I think that there are much bigger targets on the cast. I think Whitney, to be honest, consistently is giving us... ⁓ Casey: For sure. much. Blake: Like what we want out of the show. I feel like you know Yeah Exactly, she's clocked in So anyway, yeah Mary is not invited and I think that's because right, okay Casey: right, i love a bone carrier, i appreciate women who work hard, i appreciate industrial women no she's invited, she doesn't wanna go, cause it's Whitney's trip and they're on good terms so Mary's invited, she says, she says I think at this point that she doesn't feel comfortable being around Jen period, like in that environment so Mary declines to go, ⁓ and this- Blake: Fair. Jen almost drowned Whitney. I wouldn't feel comfortable either. Casey: well, right, and this comes after Mary had already said that, like, she feels like the whole group picks Jen over her, which they do in this conflict, like, they absolutely side with Jen when she's been nothing but unfair Blake: Everyone wants to give Jen the space to explain and to heal and to discuss and they want to rub her feet and say does this feel good and Mary I feel the last time everyone was together was at the luncheon where everyone was telling Mary that she wasn't talking to Jen the right way so if I were Mary I would definitely feel like What's the spell y'all are under where y'all can't say to her, you're talking to me crazy? Casey: Right, and that's what I mean, like, and they are under one. Right, so Mary's not there. They get there, like Lisa and Whitney kind of have their little like, what do mean you're here? Like, it's my trip, and like, you know, the dance around, like, no, I'm here without you, whatever, it's stupid. Lisa's trying to power trip her. Again, I think this is something that you have to view in the lens of, if this is my first season on Housewives, where am I establishing myself? Blake: Yeah. Casey: Yeah, it's probably against the younger girl in the group that I can kind of dog on because she's nice and a little bit like, ⁓ like gonna take it. It's the same again, Ashley Darby. It's literally the Ashley Darby print, like. Blake: It's a ⁓ storyline. It's a feud that... Yeah. Yeah, exactly. ⁓ And so Whitney has planned a day of events. Jen, I think, also has a dig to Whitney. And it's a dig to Whitney that is masked as a good deed for Heather. But you quickly, we quickly realize, which we will discuss in the next sentence, is that... Casey: Yes. haha Blake: Honestly, like something shifts like right at this point where suddenly like Jen doesn't See Heather as a good friend. So it's like She says, ⁓ Whitney, I can't do the event you've planned for all of us because I have a surprise for Heather because she's a wonderful friend. want to surprise her. It's a personal shopping experience where like it's just she and Heather in a room full of clothes and shoes that ⁓ I guess they get to shop without anyone being there but like Heather still has to pay for the things she wants to buy. Casey: Right. And it's just so missing the point. Like it's so, it's so Jen-shal. Like it's like Heather is like, I feel like you don't respect me. And I feel like I'm your ride or die best friend. Like I do anything you need and you still value other people more than me. Like I'm just looking for some like reciprocated energy here in Jen instead of like being like, ⁓ you know what? Like that's so true. Like let me like actually pour some time and- Blake: Yeah. Casey: Value back into this friendship like no let me set up a one-hour shopping spree and that should fix everything like I don't need to change my behavior this This should do it Blake: Yeah, you should know that I'm giving you the connections that I have. It's a fabulous event, girl. She should have just been like, let's go get dinner and talk. But that's a foreign concept. Casey: she literally could have just stepped up a little bit in her friendship with heather and made it clear it because as a viewer and again we don't see everything we don't live in their lives but as a viewer it appears that jen values her friendship with meredith and lisa way more and she respects them more than she does heather like that's just the way it is so like heather's Blake: Yeah, and which we're about to get into like three different reasons more on top of this that like showcase that Casey: Heather's accurately picking up on this so if Jen really was a reasonable person that someone that cared about Heather, she would take this in stride and say, you know what, actually that's so true. Why am I kissing ass with Lisa and Meredith when they're nowhere near as loyal to me as Heather is? Which like, yeah, if you're looking for loyalty, you have it. You have it and you're overlooking it trying to make friends with someone else. Blake: But here's the problem with Jen, and I will preface, I'll say this as a preface to everything we're about to see, is that the issue with Jen Shaw is that it's never enough. So you say you're loyal and you consistently, you you leave the flapper party with her and get her into a car to go home to Sharif. You are constantly checking in with her. You are constantly, you know, on her side against whatever bullshit. Casey: defending her EF. Blake: and she wants more than she wants you to uncritically, unconditionally tell her she's right and everyone else is wrong. And if you have any opinion that deviates from that, you're not loyal. Like it's never enough to show that like you want to be friends with her and you want her to be the best version of yourself, even if that means I'm going to tell you you're wrong here. It's like if you are not telling her the right apology, the right story, the right like you're right. If you're not just telling her what she wants to hear, then you're not loyal or you're against her or you're not, you're not actually sorry. Like Jen. Casey: Right. Blake: He really is like a mob boss in that sense. Casey: it is, and it manifests this way too, like, while they're out shopping, it comes up the Whitney of it all, of the hip-hop party again. Jen knows how to beat a motherfucking dead horse, like, ⁓ my god, that horse is dead, girl, like, let it go. ⁓ She brings it up again to Heather and is just as mad as the day it occurred. And Heather, rightfully so, as I was, as most viewers are, are thinking... Wait, did we not just resolve this? Like, is this not what we just sat in the tubs and you guys hugged it out? They rolled the clip, like they rolled the flashback of them in the tub hugging and Jen being like, verbatim, I forgive you. And she is bringing this up to Heather at the shopping trip, getting angry again, all over again. And Heather is confused. And Jen is like, you're gonna stake your reputation and our friendship on this one person, Whitney. and it's going to ruin our friendship. And it's so convoluted and ridiculous. And Heather says this line, I think in a confessional, and says, Jen's version of a friend is just a henchman. And literally, I'm watching this and I'm like, girl, listen to your own voice. You had it. You had the. Blake: Yup. Casey: you had the paperwork in place and then you lost it somehow in the next couple seasons, cause like, she was on it, like here she gets it, and then she loses it and she continues to act like that henchman. Blake: You clocked it. Well, she doesn't have the confidence in herself to be able to not only trust in what she feels, but then also cut a friendship off and stand on that. Like I think that she would feel like lost and bad. Like I have friends where they need the other person to like make it so obvious that the other person in the friendship hates them before they're willing to like... Casey: Right. Blake: And maybe they actually even need the other person to end the friendship before they're willing to move on because if they ended the friendship they would doubt their decisions, they wouldn't feel confident, they'd feel like maybe I didn't give them enough of a chance even though the other person objectively is just mistreating them. And I think that's exactly what Heather is happening. Like she sees the double standard, she sees the hypocrisy, but I don't think that she trusts herself. And I also think that there's a level of like social clout involved in being Jen's friend that makes Heather feel like she's Casey: Sure. Sure. For sure. Blake: not some loser that she thinks she is. ⁓ Casey: Yeah, and again, she's positioned herself as this like- and again, since this is like filming of season one, they don't fully know the dynamics of like how this was gonna ⁓ reverberate with like the general public, the GP, but there is this aspect that I'm sure they felt even while filming the first season of like, Jen is this queen bee figure, so it is this position of also on a show, on a new source of income, what am I doing if I conflict with her so strongly that- that the network is gonna pick this fiery lady to keep on a reality TV show over me, who just kind of like got stabbed to death by her. Like yeah, they will get rid of you, like which sucks. Blake: Right. until she gets that Rihanna endorsement. Then she has a lot to say. Then she has a lot to say, which I love for her. Casey: Yes. the next thing that happens that kind of like launches us into the next phase of the Vegas trip is while this personal shopping trip is going on, Whitney's on an extremely awkward outing with Lisa and Meredith because they're both a little bit mad at her about the mess creation at the hip hop party. Again, it's like it really should all be directed at. Jen they have a little bit of a right to be like Whitney Why did you say that but Whitney really when you look at Whitney's actual statements like if you took out everyone else's statements Whitney didn't do that much to be on this huge accountability tour, which she does in in good taste Blake: Well, I think they took it as like Whitney was trying to put a wedge between Jen and Lisa and Meredith. if someone said like, Blake told whoever that he's afraid of Casey and I found out about that, if it wasn't true, just be like, ⁓ it's not true. I never said that. Why would I be mad that someone brought it up? I'd just be like. Casey: That's how I feel. That's how I always feel with housewives. You give it validity by reacting, because if you're actually that mad, then you probably did say something along those lines. But Whitney takes good accountability. Lisa and Meredith are happy with her apology. They're like, that felt pretty genuine. It all seemed very genuine. It was an adult conversation. They're like, yep, cool. We're all good. Meredith and Lisa are both like, we're cool. ⁓ It's honestly nice to see, because they don't often have this simple of a reconciliation these days. Blake: Yeah, they're pissed. Yeah... We used to have it so good. Casey: This is nice. ⁓ So they move on. And so they all go to a group dinner and Jen pretty quickly into the dinner. I don't even think we get dinner. I think we just sit down. Jen. No, Jen finds out that Meredith and Lisa are good with Whitney, and this is enough to send the whole night into into chaos. Like, I wonder if she must have been drunk already. Like, I would think so. Again, like Sharif said, like it's like the drinking and the anger that like combined. ⁓ Blake: No, it's like literally they haven't even poured the water Casey: But she's so mad and Meredith, I think this is when Meredith starts to see Jen clearly. And this is why Meredith and Mary end up becoming friends and alliance because Meredith is starting to get on Mary's wave here because she's like, Jen, you don't get to tell me how to react. You don't get to tell me who to be friends with. Like, this is insane. I'm disengaging. She pulls again. And she's like, I'm leaving. And she leaves. she and I like. Blake: Yeah. Casey: And I'm not a Meredith fan as I feel like is already clear, but I'm like, yeah, that's like the actual appropriate human being reaction. Like Meredith is having the actual person reaction to Jen Shaw here. Like, girl. Blake: Yeah. Well, for Meredith, it's very much like, it's fool me once, fool me twice, because if you recall at the flapper party, she's sitting there screaming, why are you gonna be hanging out with Mary? Blah, blah, blah. And she's like, I'm not doing this. You're screaming at me. And then now it's with Whitney. She's screaming at her about Whitney. So I think like, she's just like, you're speaking to me crazy. I don't have to be around to hear this. So she sees it's a pattern. Casey: It is, crazy. It is a pattern. It's and it's like, Jen is so angry and like, again, this we don't even have anything more that happened other than the fact that there was an apology, which Jen already herself accepted that was accepted. Allegedly, but like Blake: Allegedly, yeah, she's accepted apologies from Mary from Whitney, but then still has the audacity to Lay everyone out for Just I guess not knowing that Jen didn't actually accept the apology like it's Deranged so so Meredith gets up and leaves Casey: she forgets. Right. Blake: And Jen at that point, she's like seeing red. And that's when Whitney and Heather kind of walk into the room and see that Jen, that Meredith's leaving and Jen gets up and Lisa gets up and Lisa's trying to calm down Jen. ⁓ And Heather, I guess, approaches Jen and is like, you know, hey, what's up? Like literally just got into the room. Hey, what's up? And then Jen smacks her hand down and leaves the room. And she's like, don't fucking hit me. Which that would have been enough for me to be like, who the fuck? Like, who the fuck do you think you are? Like smacking me? I don't have anything to do with what just happened. Casey: and again, out of like, out of nothing, like it's not even you can be like, ⁓ she did just find out that her husband's cheating on her with both of her sisters and her mom, like, of course she was tweaking out a little bit, like, not that there's really any justifiable behavior for physical contact and violence, but- but it's so- right, it's so far away from- Blake: But it didn't have anything to do with Heather. Casey: anything to do with that? It's like, what do mean? Especially after Heather just said, like, I don't really feel like you respect me. And then she hits her like, OK. And Lisa is the one to try to calm Jen down this time. They all have to take shifts. And Whitney and Heather are so like, I don't feel safe right now. I'm shaking. I mean, I would probably too. But it's a big deal. Meredith is already gone. Blake: Like, ⁓ okay, point in case. Yeah, they're clocking in. So. Casey: And so Jen like ends up, honestly don't even like know how it fully shakes out, but they separate from Jen because Jen is being an insane person and they have like a little debrief without Jen. So like Lisa, Meredith, Heather and Whitney are sitting like it looks like in like a common room of like a hotel, like Jen's somewhere probably being talked down by producers like and they are having this little debrief and it's actually super productive. Honestly, like I was like, wait, this is a T because if they had unified as a group, Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Casey: They could have iced Jen out of this cast, I genuinely think. Like, the group is so united at this little debrief, and we already know Mary agrees with them, that like, it's crazy. Blake: It's Heather and Lisa who are the weak links in the group who are unable to put their stupid like, you know, if I want was friends with someone and I had a bad moment, I would want them to stick by me and the Heather has this whole bullshit line of like ride or die means you're there for everything and it's called boundaries. Like obviously, you know, Casey: It is. It is. Yeah. right, heather's doing a lot of legwork, like, she has some endearing qualities, like, i know she's horrible, but she's also fabulous, like, girl, would you say that about a dictator? Blake: Right, and Lisa falls for the... Yeah... Heather? Heather is like on that train of thought of like, we all have horrible qualities and like she has maybe a little bit more than we do, but I wouldn't want someone to not be my friend because I have horrible qualities. And then Lisa's on the other side being like, you know, which hasn't been said yet, but basically her whole reason for like staying friends with Jen is like, Jen told me that like as a woman of color, it's so, you know, her, this is her story. This is how... Casey: Yeah. ⁓ Right, Lisa really is like, okay, yep, woman of color heard, like I accept that. Blake: Yeah, yeah, no, I was gonna say it's like the it's like you say the buzzword and I feel like there were obviously like discourse around Race in 2020 I think was overall very productive, but I think that like there there's a way to have it that's not productive that was used as a shield and I think if you could talk about it in any context that was like that it was genshawe like to to literally say that I have to be this this like violent with you guys because of my upbringing in Utah but like you're literally just skirting accountability and you're not addressing at all like the behavior that is Casey: future. Blake: coming out of your, that you're like hitting Heather was not necessary. And that has nothing to do with your upbringing. Casey: Right. Right. And the women are like, the women are all coming together on these similar points. Like it's actually the most grounded conversation that they've had as a group and really between individuals too. Like this is like, they're clocking it. Like I was like, whoa, like they almost had the vibe here to completely just rid us of Gen Shot, but they don't. ⁓ Obviously things go awry. But one of the things that's important about this debrief is that this is the first time meredith talks about her separation with anybody that's not lisa or jen even though whitney and heather know because jen told both of them this is the first time that they hear it from meredith so they're talking about how jen like revealed that that info and meredith is like yes i will just be honest with you guys seth and i are not together and we i have seen other people like so that's what jen is referring to because jen had told they're working on it but they've been separated for a long time and that wasn't Blake: Well, they're together at that point, but she said in the past we have seen, yeah. Casey: public knowledge and Meredith had seen other people when it was in a worse condition. ⁓ And this is the first time that she says that out loud to Whitney and Heather. So they're just getting everything out in a way of like, yeah, Jen said this, but here's now we have it with us. And now Meredith has the ammo of like, Jen really did tell Whitney and Heather this when I told her not to tell anybody, which is bad. I mean, that's just objectively not what a good friend does. ⁓ So that's important and that carries on. Blake: Yeah. Yeah. Terrible. Casey: ⁓ And all the women are specifically like to Heather, like Heather, would Jen defend you in the way that you defend Jen? And like, of course, Heather can't answer that because like, no, the answer is no. ⁓ And so this debrief occurs, Jen is, I assume again, being calmed down by a combo meal of Sharif producers, the authorities, who knows. ⁓ Blake: You Casey: And Whitney's like, okay, guys, like I have another surprise like for our next activity. We're going to go again, always Whitney core. Like we're to go see a hypnotist, like healer lady, whatever therapist at her house in Vegas. And they're going to go and like they go and they do like a little bit of like the dumb like no to stuff. I've been hypnotized. I do think it works. I'm not like being like anti if you're a hypnotist and you're listening like I support you. Blake: at her house. You Casey: But the real meat of this event is that basically this hypnotist starts doing group therapy for them. ⁓ And they're all sitting on this massive couch. Blake: Yeah. Well, she has no choice because they all hate each other at this point, or they all hate Jen. And yeah. I mean, so it's like, she was probably thinking we're gonna have this fun little session of like, your eyes and like fall asleep and think about your biggest dream in life. And meanwhile, everyone's like, we fucking wanna kill Jen-Jah. And she's like, let's unpack that. But it's funny too, because it's like, once she starts... Casey: Right. Well, they all hate Jen. And they're sitting there. Girls in Vegas. Blake: getting into the whole like group dynamic and the issues or whatever. Jen is like, Jen gets mad at the hypnotist. Like she's like, she's like, she's like pissed off that this woman is here. And the woman is saying things like, the woman is essentially, this hypnotist is essentially explaining to Jen how to apologize to people. She's like, like, Casey: So bad. Yes. Blake: You know, who doesn't trust Jen? Obviously everyone raises their hand. Then she says, who doesn't trust everyone? And when she gets to Heather, Jen doesn't raise her hand about Heather. So that's what we're talking about where we go like triple whammy, where we go, ⁓ I forgot we have a Casey: Can you play the clip? Blake: That is so. That is so sinister. It is so, I'm sorry, this woman was after, the next day after the dinner that where she like assaulted Heather. Heather's up in her room explaining, trying to explain to her why everyone is mad at her. Heather took it upon herself to explain that Jen is taking out all her anger on Heather because here's the thing, if you are, Casey: is so insane and like Like she's so... Blake: countering her narrative, then you are against her and she cannot see that the reason Heather is even there explaining it is because she is with you. Casey: And that's what she says, like Jen, like, I think the hypnotist, the hypnotherapist is like, oh, why do you say that? Like about Heather, like you're the only one. And Jen's like, I wouldn't have said this before now, but since she defended Whitney and it's like you yourself accepted Whitney's apology. Like it's so insane for this to be the stance you're taking against Heather, who literally has stood by you through all of your bullshit. Like all, like again. I think about that, what was it, the Gatsby party when she chases her around the parking lot and gets her into the car and calls Sharif and gets her home. That is above and beyond behavior. I have never had a friend who would do that for me, even if my sister did that for me. Blake: Yeah. Especially if you were screaming like a banshee leaving a party after 30 minutes because you decided to go over and make an ass out of yourself. Casey: with no apology after and you're just good, like she's just cool with you doing that with no acknowledgement. Blake: And you come over to your friend, hey, hey, can I get you into your car? And she's like, shut the fuck up. Casey: So like that alone, all you have to know about is that event. For her to say that, knowing how Heather acts towards her, I mean, it's literally, it's so, it's more insane than the way she acts at parties, which is saying something. Like this is like a big, I would be like, ⁓ I'm done with you. Like, and again, she has plenty of times to be like that, but this is like the core ⁓ time. And I think I relate to Heather. Blake: Yeah. absolutely. She has? Sorry, go ahead. Casey: I relate to Heather in the way that like I make excuses for people because I think I've fallen into that same line of reasoning of like, you know what, when you choose people, you kind of got to choose them and like lock in and like be ready to like accept their flaws and like stand by them. And I think it is a mark of like an insecure specifically women. Like I think we're like told like sometimes that like, ⁓ if you're not like attracting like a certain type of friend, a certain type person like that's a you thing and not a them thing so you need to adjust to like have somebody around. I think that's like what's happening with Heather