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The First Recorded Christmas Was The Latest Birthday Party Ever · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you,
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: as always so much for tuning in. Let's hear it
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  Speaker 2: for our number one super producer, mister Max Williams. Huzzah,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: there's mister Noel Brown. They often call me Ben in
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  Speaker 2: these parts. Guys, this is our holiday episode.
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  Speaker 3: It's true. Would you guys believe that I was not
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  Speaker 3: born anywhere near Christmas despite my name? I get that
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  Speaker 3: all the time. Just not the case. I'm an August baby, Alio.
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  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.
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  Speaker 2: The thing that sticks out to me as a fellow
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: LEO and a fan of the human experiment, is that
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: we have a bone to pick with history. We have
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  Speaker 2: something that we think is a little bit ridiculous. We're
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  Speaker 2: going to dive into it here first and foremost, we
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  Speaker 2: hope you and your family are well. Whether or not
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  Speaker 2: you celebrate Christmas, we have to tell you, even if
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  Speaker 2: you're listening to this thousands or millions of years after
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  Speaker 2: the episode publishes, Christmas was slash is a pretty big deal.
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  Speaker 2: It is ultimately a birthday celebration.
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  Speaker 3: Sure, you guys have.
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  Speaker 2: Heard it right here in the United States, people often
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  Speaker 2: say Jesus is the reason for the season.
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  Speaker 3: They do say that. It's true. Lest you think we're
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  Speaker 3: going to be a couple of old grinches trying to
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  Speaker 3: steal Christmas, that's not the case at all. Though. Jesus
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  Speaker 3: has become a little less of the reason for the
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  Speaker 3: season here in the United States anyway, in favor of
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  Speaker 3: a bit more of a massive commercial, you know, gift
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  Speaker 3: giving blowout. But you know, things change, That's just how
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  Speaker 3: it goes. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: What we see here in the US currently, as we
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  Speaker 2: record at the very end of twenty twenty four, is
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  Speaker 2: that Christmas has become an economic necessity for a lot
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  Speaker 2: of businesses. It turns out, by the way, this is
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  Speaker 2: what we're doing. I love your point, Noel. We are
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  Speaker 2: not denigrating any spiritual belief system. We are, in fact
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  Speaker 2: sticky up for this one guy, because it turns out
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  Speaker 2: that Christmas the most important birthday in Western discourse. It
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  Speaker 2: happened about three hundred years after the fact. This is
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  Speaker 2: the latest birthday party ever.
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  Speaker 3: Jesus needs all the help he can get. Ben, It's true.
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  Speaker 3: First off, heavens.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh jeez, yeah, we're not the Logians. We're
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  Speaker 2: not priests, pastors and moms or rabbis. Wait, let's check
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  Speaker 2: with Max. Max, do you have any theological qualifications?
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  Speaker 3: Uh I, I do not know.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, all right, and we're all we're all on the
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  Speaker 2: same we're all the same wavelength. Yeah, that's right, nol
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  Speaker 2: uh Jesus Christ, that's right, haters, technically the world's most
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  Speaker 2: famous Jew, So take that.
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  Speaker 3: Nazis so likely you've heard tell of jc H. There
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  Speaker 3: are a lot of stories about him, and you may
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  Speaker 3: or may not be amazed to know that he was
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  Speaker 3: what's that guy? There's a meme now is a super
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  Speaker 3: chill guy. Yeah, yeah, very big lebowski.
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  Speaker 2: Right, this guy, this one individual exhibited phenomenal dare say
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  Speaker 2: divine abilities? Noel, we're talking about a guy who has
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  Speaker 2: power over time, creation, angels, death, destiny, truth, and of
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  Speaker 2: course churches.
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  Speaker 3: True story.
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  Speaker 2: One time, one unchill time, he cursed a fig tree.
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  Speaker 2: That is a tale the Jedi will not share with you.
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  Speaker 3: Well, well, maybe a more popular story of him being
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  Speaker 3: unchill was when he flipped the tables of the money
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  Speaker 3: changers in the in the bizarre in the markets, you know,
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  Speaker 3: because he was against the kind of greed and manipulation
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  Speaker 3: that they represented. So you know, a pretty chill, unchill
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  Speaker 3: action if you ask me.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, acting with righteousness did not care for usurious people.
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  Speaker 3: And whether or not you believe in Jesus's mystical or
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  Speaker 3: divine abilities, the fact remains that he was a dude
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  Speaker 3: who was believed in by many and absolutely accomplished some
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  Speaker 3: pretty fantastic things even outside of the realm of the
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  Speaker 3: divine right.
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  Speaker 2: M Yeah, the individual called Jesus today was, according to
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  Speaker 2: the story, born in a town called Bethlehem, in a
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  Speaker 2: manger basically a barn, a place whould put livestock. His
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  Speaker 2: parents were not the one percent, but the baby was
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  Speaker 2: on the way. They couldn't find a better place for
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  Speaker 2: his mom, the famous Mary to give.
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  Speaker 3: Birth right at the end. All that right, one of
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  Speaker 3: the famous Mary's.
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  Speaker 2: And so, as the story goes, a bunch of people
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  Speaker 2: showed up right on time for this birth in Bethlehem.
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  Speaker 2: And get this, Instead of helping the family get better shelter,
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  Speaker 2: everybody who showed up hung out in the barn, and
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  Speaker 2: they gave the family a series of what we would
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  Speaker 2: call dramatically expensive, often unhelpful gifts, like when when's the
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  Speaker 2: last time he needed some mirr.
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  Speaker 3: What even is mr? I know it's like a fine
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  Speaker 3: oil or lotion or liniment. What is it? It's like
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  Speaker 3: a spice? What is murr? Again? I think it's like
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  Speaker 3: a precious metal. It's a gum resin. Okay, so it's
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  Speaker 3: like incense, right, it would smell good?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's been you. It's medicinal. It's also
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  Speaker 2: used for perfume. And as you said, incense.
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  Speaker 3: Got it? Uh?
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  Speaker 4: So.
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  Speaker 3: Jesus was a Galilean from Nazareth. Uh And this is
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  Speaker 3: a village near Cephoris, one of two major cities there
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  Speaker 3: in Galilee, the other being Tiberius. And he was born
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  Speaker 3: to essentially a the laborer, you know, a carpenter, a
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  Speaker 3: construction worker, the name of Joseph, and of course the
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  Speaker 3: aforementioned famous Mary. Somewhere around six BCP and shortly before
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  Speaker 3: the death of Herod the Great, who was a real
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  Speaker 3: pain in the keyst if I'm not mistaken, Ben.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Noel, Let's be honest. History is written by the
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  Speaker 2: victors first off, So every story you will read about
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  Speaker 2: Herod in the West shows him being a real beat
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  Speaker 2: me here Max, a real piece of h He.
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  Speaker 3: Could change, he could change. Yeah, like back here. You know,
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  Speaker 3: he did sloppy steaks, but he could change.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think he changed. He didn't change, and the
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  Speaker 3: jump in here real quick.
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  Speaker 5: I didn't write about it because I wasn't able to
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  Speaker 5: find enough sources. But there are some rumors out there
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  Speaker 5: that how Herod went was very fitting for our Ridiculous
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  Speaker 5: World death episode.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned that, Max. Perhaps we
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  Speaker 2: will resurrect that idea in the future. No joke left
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  Speaker 2: behind hashtag. So look, we could imagine Herod had his
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  Speaker 2: own series of things going on, but for our purposes today,
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  Speaker 2: he's kind of a bad guy.
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  Speaker 3: He's kind of not cool.
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  Speaker 2: If you go to the later writing of the disciples
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  Speaker 2: of Jesus, who is not yet in his childhood called
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  Speaker 2: the Christ, we see that Matthew and Luke are you know,
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  Speaker 2: they're part of the wu tang of Christ when he
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  Speaker 2: becomes known as the Messiah, and they are the ones
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  Speaker 2: who tell the world yesterday and today that this carpenter,
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  Speaker 2: this itinerant carpenter you mentioned, Noel Joseph is only legally
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  Speaker 2: the father of Jesus. Instead, they argue Mary was a
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  Speaker 2: physical virgin, meaning she had never had or encountered sexual intimacy,
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  Speaker 2: and then boom, she was found to be with child
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  Speaker 2: from the Holy.
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  Speaker 3: Spirit, the virgin birth. It's a miracle in Bethlehem. And
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  Speaker 3: if I'm not mistaken by all of these folks, the
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  Speaker 3: three Wise men and the like followed a shooting star,
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  Speaker 3: and they heard tell of the coming of this Messiah,
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  Speaker 3: and they follow the star that led them directly to
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  Speaker 3: this cowshd. Pretty interesting stuff, not to mention that the
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  Speaker 3: whole virgin birth thing. Of course, if anyone seen the
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  Speaker 3: Last Temptation of Christ, for example by good old Martysecrsaza,
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  Speaker 3: you know there are other controversial takes on this the
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  Speaker 3: story so plenty of stuff to explore on your own
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  Speaker 3: if you want to.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and originally there was not a guy doing a
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  Speaker 2: kick ass backbeat. There was not a little drummer boy
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  Speaker 2: that comes later in the Great Game of Telephone.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's to me, like, I think a
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  Speaker 3: bit of a clearly some of this is in the
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  Speaker 3: realm of fiction. I think the Little drummer Boy was
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  Speaker 3: almost like just a representation of the Christmas spirit. I do.
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  Speaker 3: I do love it though.
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  Speaker 2: I love the idea of a kid showing up and
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  Speaker 2: just doing some drums.
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  Speaker 3: Rum pum, pump pump.
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  Speaker 2: So by all accounts, our young individual Jesus was precocious.
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  Speaker 2: We do not know a ton about this individual's childhood,
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  Speaker 2: including can I get a spoiler sound cube his actual birthday?
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  Speaker 2: Thank you Max. He appeared to learn things at a
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  Speaker 2: prodigious rate. He was a very quick kid, and and
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  Speaker 2: Judaism at this time usually only add one name. If
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  Speaker 2: you need a greater specificity, you would add the father's
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  Speaker 2: name or the place of the individual's origin. So for example,
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  Speaker 2: we would say Macs of Michigan, right, it would say
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  Speaker 2: Noll of Augusta, something like that.
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  Speaker 3: And that kind of nomenclature I guess goes back way
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  Speaker 3: further than this story. I mean, it is an ancient holdover.
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  Speaker 3: Instead of having last names, even people were identified from
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  Speaker 3: where they were born, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, or their provenance. That's patrilineal origins. So in his
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  Speaker 2: time on Earth, in this moment in history, Jesus is
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  Speaker 2: called things like Jesus son of Joseph makes sense, Jesus
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  Speaker 2: of Nazareth makes sense, or Jesus the Nazarene, which is,
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  Speaker 2: you know, Jesus the guy from Nazareth.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: He ultimately becomes the most famous Jesus. So eventually all
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  Speaker 3: that stuff could probably just drop off like Madonna or
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  Speaker 3: Share absolutely and we could do an entire etymology spinoff
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  Speaker 3: episode on the nature of translation here and that great
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: game of etymological and linguistic telephone that we kind of
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  Speaker 3: just explored a good bit, and that two parter we
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  Speaker 3: did on the English alphabet. But for now we just
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  Speaker 3: need to know. At some point there was a brilliant
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  Speaker 3: child of uncertain patrilineal origin for the time, and he
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  Speaker 3: wanted to just take everything in he could like a sponge.
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  Speaker 2: And with some help from our good friends at Britannica,
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  Speaker 2: we'll give you the following quote about the young Jesus
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  Speaker 2: later called Christ. As a young adult, he went to
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  Speaker 2: be baptized by the prophet John the Baptist, and shortly
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  Speaker 2: thereafter became an itinerant preacher and healer. This goes back
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  Speaker 2: to Mark one to two to twenty eight. Anyway, in
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  Speaker 2: Britannica did not say anyway, I said anyway. That's editorializing,
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  Speaker 2: So Britannica continues. In his mid thirties, Jesus had a
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  Speaker 2: short public career, lasting perhaps less than one year, during
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  Speaker 2: which he attracted considerable attention. Noel, do you want to
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  Speaker 2: finish us out with this quote?
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  Speaker 3: Pro I be honored. Britannica is one of my favorites.
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  Speaker 3: And boo to ye who say they are not a
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  Speaker 3: valid source. Y'all need to get a hobby. Sometime between
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  Speaker 3: twenty nine and thirty three CE, possibly thirty CE, he
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: went to observe passover in Jerusalem, where his entrance, according
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  Speaker 3: to the Gospels, was triumphant and confused with eschatological significance.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Get your minds out of the gutter. That word doesn't
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  Speaker 3: mean what you think it means. It's like it's almost
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  Speaker 3: like ecclesiastical right, or like having like a religious imbued
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  Speaker 3: with religious fervor kind of.
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  Speaker 2: It's the branch of theology or philosophy that is associated
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  Speaker 2: with the end of the world humanity.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, relating to death, judgment, and the final destiny
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  Speaker 3: of the soul. Okay, this is a new word for me.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good one. You don't get to use
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  Speaker 2: it all the time, but it is a fun one.
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  Speaker 3: You do, you best use it with Gusto.
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  Speaker 2: Bro, we should accuse people of being eschatological.
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  Speaker 3: They're going to think we're calling them shitty. Oh that's scatology. Really,
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: it really sounds similar. I'm sorry.
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  Speaker 2: How different does on one sound me?
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  Speaker 3: Word? What difference a day makes? It's ben we're still
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  Speaker 3: high off our alphabet. Serious.
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  Speaker 2: So this, uh, this story, this early story will be
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  Speaker 2: familiar to any what are called people of the book,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: practitioners inherents of Judaism, Islam or Christianity. As you know,
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  Speaker 2: and we hope we're not. The first way you learned this.
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  Speaker 2: The man called Jesus was apprehended and he sat through
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  Speaker 2: a kangaroo court. No one, to be fair, no one
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  Speaker 2: in the area had heard of kangaroos by this point.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a great concept though that we explore a
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  Speaker 3: little bit on a listener mail of recent times over
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: on stuff that I want you to know. We had
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  Speaker 3: a listener right, and about the origins of the concept
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: of a kangaroo court, meaning a court where the outcome
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: is determined ahead of time. And it is all but
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  Speaker 3: symbolic for the purposes of saying no, we did that,
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  Speaker 3: we did the thing. We gave you a trial, But
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  Speaker 3: basically there is a predetermined outcome, and for Jesus that
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  Speaker 3: was crucifixion. After like saw two levels of torture and brutalization.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was super gross. It was undeserved. The guy
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  Speaker 2: was innocent, and I love the point you're bringing up.
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  Speaker 2: He was killed due to political machinations of the Romans
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: at the time. And this is why this death via crucifixion.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: This is why Christians today will have a cross in homes,
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  Speaker 2: on flags, on mission and perhaps in tattoos.
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  Speaker 3: On the moons. Yeah, yeah, why not.
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  Speaker 2: The disciples of Jesus now called Christ, they proliferated what
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  Speaker 2: they saw as his teachings throughout the world. The problem
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  Speaker 2: is that the disciples of Jesus Christ didn't always agree.
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  Speaker 3: With one another. Yeah, they had.
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  Speaker 2: Differences of opinion. They had one thing, they had one thing.
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  Speaker 3: They agreed on.
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  Speaker 2: They said, our guy, Jesus Christ did not in fact
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  Speaker 2: permanently die.
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  Speaker 3: No, he was in fact resurrected on the third Day,
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  Speaker 3: where he rolled aside the stone on the cave where
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: his body lay in state to the proclamations of he
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  Speaker 3: has risen, you know, all of that good stuff. So
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: this is a really big deal for any followers of
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  Speaker 3: Jesus after going through such a PTSD inducing situation, having
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  Speaker 3: to watch their guy JC just get his absolute beaten
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  Speaker 3: out of him by that Cato nine tails. Do you
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: guys see the Mel Gibson movie. I never bothered. It
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: just seemed like torture porn.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Passion of the Christ. I actually did you know?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I love a little bit of Discordianism back now, back when,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: back when DVDs and Blu rays and physical media were
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: more of a thing. I printed up a series of
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: stickers that just said, is tonight the night? And I
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: stuck them on a bunch of Passion of the Christ DVDs.
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  Speaker 3: It's tonight the night that what will happen? Ben, I
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: don't understand it is tonight the night that you watched
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: that you watched? Okay, get it right? Remember when that?
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sorry not to get two side travel.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: When that film came out, it was a golden moment
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: for Christian merch. Remember there were like little nails, bracelets
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: and things, and it all felt a little commercial and weird.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know what. I guess it's good for the faith,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: you know, probably as was mel Gibson's intent, him being
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: a card carrying Christian and potentially a virulent anti Semite.
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: Oh no potential about it. Yeah, I think he said
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: some things, right, Yeah, So all right, here we go.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: We've got this story a guy who is holy has
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  Speaker 3: transcended the mortal veil and ever since he's around though
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: he exits the tomb and he's there, but then he ascends.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Is that the idea that he sort of dematerializes I've
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: ever understood the function of that scene.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Well, he takes on the sins of every other person
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: who has ever lived, and if you obey Jesus Christ
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: and follow his teachings, then he will stick up for
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: you in the face of God. He is God, the
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: argument goes, so it's pretty important to get on his
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: good side.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: I guess what I'm talking about my confusion around the
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: whole ascending into heaven. Think, if I'm not mistaken, there
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: are people in the Bible who saw him, yeah, like
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: like before that took place. So I'm just wondering, like,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: what did that look like when he ascended. I've always
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: just wondered, like what that might have looked like if this,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: you know, this story were to be true, if there
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  Speaker 3: were people that saw him, you know, in his corporeal form,
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  Speaker 3: and then did he like just kind of disintegrates and
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: become like, you know, air, and or.
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  Speaker 2: Did he physically fly up right into the hospma. I
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: always wondering, well, people still thought the idea of being
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: forgiven was massively cool, and a great many people, including
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: several of our fellow ridiculous historians, are on board with
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: this idea today. It is spiritually incredibly important. We have
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: your back, folks. We're never here to yuck a yum.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: We think it is objectively regardless of your personal beliefs.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: We think it is very cool to be lost and
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: to be found and loved once more. That's pretty nuts.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: And I personally, to quote the band King Missile, think
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Jesus was way cool and have always been fascinated by
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: him and his acts, whether or not the divine aspects
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: of it turn out to be true. And I'm not
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: here to say one way or the other. And my
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: whole you know, questioning of the ascension into heaven was
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: not trying to poke fun at all there. I just
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: truly like if that were to have happened. I mean,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: we do a critical thinking conspiracy show, we talk about
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: the stuff in the spiritual realm all the time. I
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: just wonder what that might have looked like, here's the thing.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: People are still trying to figure out how best to commemorate,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: to emulate, and to celebrate the life and times of
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Jesus Christ. Throughout the Western world and spoiler, a lot
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: of the non Western world. There are a ton of
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: people who celebrate the idea of the birthday of Jesus
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Christ as both a sacred religious hall day and as
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: a commercial phenomenon. For for like more than two thousand
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: years at this point, people around the world have been
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: observing our buddy Jesus's Big Day with traditions and practices
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that are both religious and secular in nature. Please check
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: out our earlier episodes on things like the Yule Lads
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: or things like Crampis, old.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Boot liquor, no doorway sniffer, window liquors, window liquors, an
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: affect one song.
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: But they're all these I think are right.
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: Somewhat licking smelling. They're doing a milk it's cealing, goat milk.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: There's a ghast it's noun verb. And they're like thirteen
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: of them. They're they're very weird.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is worth worth your time to go back
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: and check that one out, because I can't remember half
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: of them to save my life. But they're all pretty
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: weird and pretty delightful, and we name check them regularly. Uh.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Popular customs in celebration of the birthday of Christ Christmas.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: They include things like exchanging gifts. Depending on where you are,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: you might wear a little hat, you might have a tree.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: You'll probably go to church, you eat a nice dinner
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: Christmas dinner with friends and family, and then obviously, post
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Coca cola, you wait for Santa Claus.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: To arrive hundred percent. And you know, pretty much all
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: the things you're describing are enjoyed by the secular and
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: the faithful alike. You know, me not personally being a Christian.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: I have a Christmas tree in my house, and I
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: love exchanging gifts, and I love the customs and the
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: traditions of it all and try not to make it
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: too grossly commercial. But a lot of these things are
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: kind of marking the season too. It is kind of
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: hopefully encouraging a spirit of end of the year reflection
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: and generositude.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's great, and this is the thing, all right.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: So December twenty fifth, as Chris Smith's Day, has only
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: been a federal holiday in the United States since eighteen seventy.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, oh quite recently.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I did know that. I just I'm still taken aback
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: by it. It's weird.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: And also, this is the thing, this is the point
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: of our episode. We hope it's pretty well known by
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: this point. December twenty fifth, as the current western calendar reckons,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: was not the actual birthday of Jesus Christ. In fact,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: if you look at the ridiculous history here, his first
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: acknowledged birthday was three hundred years late. You know, you
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: say you like the guy and you take three hundred years.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: So for the first three hundred years or so of
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: what we would call Christianity as we know it, no
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: one was celebrating Christmas on December twenty fifth. Yeah.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: The calendar you're using now in the West, the Gregorian
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: calendar system shout out greg was a created until the
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: late sixteenth century and tier point Noel. For the first
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: three hundred years or so of the Christian Church's existence.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Get this, they didn't really care about birthdays, right, They
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: were much more death obsessed.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: It would seem the day on which a saint died,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: which makes sense kind of because saints are usually often
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: martyred and so the death is when they become saints,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: so it kind of does make sense to focus on
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: that rather than the birthday that would have been considered
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: much more important as it ushered them into the Kingdom
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: of Heaven.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Right right, you nailed it. So at the time, the
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: baptism of Jesus Christ received way more attention than his birthday.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: People would say, all right, he's born on January sixth.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: That was their idea for quite some time. The first
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: recorded by which we mean written mentioned of the celebration
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: of Christmas comes about in three fifty four CE, more
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: than three centuries after the actual guy was actually born.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Hundred percent and even today in twenty twenty four as
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: we record this, no one can really agree on when
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Jesus was actually born. One thing that can be pretty
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: well agreed on is that it wasn't on December twenty fifth. Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: A lot of folks will tell you that the actual
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: birth date was somewhere in early spring, which puts it
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: closer to Easter, which is also the holiday commemorating his resurrection. When,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: as we discussed, the guy somehow rises to heaven.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And this is something that we see all
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: the time I believe the term being religious syncretism. The
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: origins of Christmas and It's December Day much more likely
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: lie in the ancient Greco Roman traditions and more kind
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: of pagan celebrations.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, there are three possible I would say, competing
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: celebrations for this rough calindrical parking space. The Roman Christian
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: historian sexist Julius Africanus.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: Killer name Wow.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well he didn't know it was hilarious to us.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's hilarious. I think it's bad ass.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I want to be sextist Julius Africanus. I did Mike
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: drop right after saying that name. I believe that you man,
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I got your back. I got you six on that.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: So this guy traces the conception of Jesus later called
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: Christ to March twenty fifth. By the way, that's the
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: same date this guy argued the world itself was created.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. No,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: I was just laughing at a word that I just
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: clocked a little further down in the outline. Shapoopy. Yeah, shapoopy.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: That's just fun to say and fun. And I saw
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: it and I just immediately couldn't help but giggle. But generally,
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: if you're looking for another guy to pin this whole
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: reason for the season on, you're going to have to
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: look at a guy named Dionysus Exogus. Do we just
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: have not cool names? I think that's true. Bad. I
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: think names have gotten less cool. We need cooler needs.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's a hot take. I think names
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: have gotten less cool over time. But Dionysus Exogus was,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: in fact a sixth century monk who was the first
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: to date all of history. From December twenty fifth, Viv
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: watched a period piece and you've got some fancy lads
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: talking about the year of our Lord. Won't here you go? Yeah?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Other traditions disagreed with old Exegus, and they said,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: maybe it was mid November, maybe it was March. It
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: is as we knew it did earlier. A real shapoopy.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Just please that word up and give our regards to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: family guys.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Isn't shappoopy also a thing from Seinfelds. I know it's
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: a family guy thing. You've got a great clip here
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: and you should look that up. But I swear it
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: was something maybe it was shmoopy. I think I'm thinking
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: of Shmoopy. Shappoopy's different, but Shmoopy's also fun. So hey
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: travel with us back in time to the Roman Empire
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: during what they had no idea was going to be
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: referred to historically as the third century CE. Yeah, it
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: was just that day.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: For this spoiler, Rome as an empire was not immediately
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: on board with this whole Jesus thing. They were, first off,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: super anti Semitic, and second they had a bunch of
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: other competing holidays. They're an empire, So there was something
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: called Soul Invictus, the celebration of the Unconquered Sun, which
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: occurred around the same time. This was a very busy
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: day as holidays go, because it marked the natural passage
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: of the seasons, the return of longer days after the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: winter solstice. Also, additionally, the Roman Empire had a festival
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: called the Saturnalia, and folks, if you can guess what
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: people did back then during Saturnalia, We're just going to
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: give you the truth. They had big parties. They ate
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of family meals, and they exchanged gifts.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: With each other. What no orgies, well, you know for
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: a treat. Okay, fair enough. It was also the birthday
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: of the Indo European deity Mithra, God of Light, Lord
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: of Light. It's very Game of Thrones. The Red Woman.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Mithra, who is kind of the pepsi to
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the coke Heer, an ancient deity of cove eveance light.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: As you said, noel oaths, justice, the Sun, and friendship.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: To the Roman soldiers were a big fan.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they They kind of were the way that
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: kids might wear no Fear t shirts in the nineteen nineties.
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: Maybe a little more intense than that, but I'm with you, Ben,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: no question, But the question does become, what's the deal
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: with the first birthday? Why? December twenty fifth at all? Oh? Yeah.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: To understand this, we have to introduce a guy named Constantine.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: His full name, if he gets in trouble, is Flavius
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Valerius Constantinus, also called himself Constantine One, or, in a
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: burst of humility, Constantine the Great. Now, this guy was
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: a real uh you know, he's like Taylor Swift. He's
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: a real up and comer.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: In Rome. He rules the.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Place from three h six CE to three point thirty seven.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: He is the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: Huge deal, big historical more than footnote.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is really what led to the proliferation
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: of Christianity and some of the later schisms that would
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: come out of that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: He plays a pivotal role in elevating the status of
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: Christianity and Rome, because before Constantine, people of the Christian
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: faith were getting treated like trash. He is the guy
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: who made it legal in the Empire to practice Christianity.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Before him, it was illegal, it was a crime to
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: be Christian. He also said, let's stop persecuting the Christians
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: on a day to day basis. This is called the
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Constantinian shift, and this initiated, to your point, the Christianization
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: of the Roman Empire, right leading to you know, things
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: like the Vatican.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: And Rome became the seat of the religion, you know,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: for the entire world.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: And back in three point thirty six CE, again, centuries
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: after this guy, the Church of Rome began formally celebrating
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Christmas on December twenty fifth. Now we have to we
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: have to pause for a second because we're making Constantine
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: sound like a.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Super duper hero. But he probably had some other political
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: considerations with picking December twenty fifth as this celebration. For sure,
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: And it was also not to say that his hands
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: weren't covered in blood from like other stuff. Dude had
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: a reputation in other ways as being you know, just
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: as ruthless as many other people in his position. Yeah,
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: name one good emperor exactly then or now.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of speculation that this guy in his
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: administration purposely chose December twenty fifth, not because they thought
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: it was shout out to our pal Laura and Vogelbaum,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: the actual facts birth date of Jesus Christ. The argument
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: is that they may have thought choosing this holiday for
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Christianity would weaken the celebrations of existing pagan schools of thought,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: things like Saturnalia occurring around the same time. The rollout
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: was not perfect, by the way, the eastern area of
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the Empire, they were still on this January sixth thing,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: and it took like fifty years minimum to get them
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: on board with December twenty fifth.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: Well, people are still calling ex Twitter to this day,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: so big changes sometimes take time to be fully adopted.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and even then, after the adoption of this idea,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Christmas was not a major Christian festival, which we know
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: sounds very strange. People only started celebrate reading the birthday
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ in like a very big deal way
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: around the ninth century CE, almost a thousand years after
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: the Crucifixion. I'd like to quote Cheech Maren from Ghostbusters
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: where he says better late than never.
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: Cheach marens in Ghostbusters. Cheach maren is in Ghostbusters? Does
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: he just have like a walk on? I guess he's
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: totally blanking on this.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: He's the guy who sees the Titanic arriving when all
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: the ghosts come back, guys, and he just pop on.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: He's the guy who says better late than never.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: I know, I believe that. It's just I've never caocked
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: that big, big, big Cheach fan actually got a crappy
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: guitar signed by what kind of guitar. It's just like
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: a cheap kind of Fender strat that would come in
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: like a strap pack you might get a kid for
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: a Christmas. But it's awesome. It's signed by both Cheech
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: and Chong and I look forward to one day upgrading
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: some of the parts on it so I can actually
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: play it.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Tommy's cool man. So we we want to
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: keep this brief. We know everybody has a ton of
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: stuff happening in twenty twenty five. We know you have
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: so many loved ones to get to whether or not
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: you celebrate the reason for the season on December twenty fifth.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: We're just so.
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: Happy you're here and this is a great time of reflection.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: We do have to point out, of course it's kind
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: of ridiculous, right, that's a super late birthday party.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: Oh for sure, we wouldn't have covered if an if
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: it wasn't ridiculous. That's sort of our number one criteria
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: for this show. That's not true. We talk about stuff,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: it's not ridiculous. All that. We try to bring that
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: ridiculous flavor that you know and love even to the
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: heaviest of topics.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And big, big thanks to our own wise men super
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: producer mister Max Williams Noel Brown first of.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: His name, Yeah I say that. Yeah, Can I say
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: that as far as far as I know? Can you
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: just add like a Roman one or a Roman eye
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: at the end of your name before it's in a year?
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Why not? I'll try it on for size. Nice.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Nice, Thanks also to uh our composer mister Alex Williams.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Have we thanked his brother Max Williams. Yeah, let's think
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: of twice. Yes, and also Christopher Raciotas and Eves chef
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Coats both here in Christmas spirit.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Hey, j Bahamas, Jacob's, Rachel Big, Spinach, Lance, Elizabeth, and
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Zared our rude dudes over at ridiculous.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Crime and not to mention our very own Ebenezer Scrooge figure.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Jonathan Trickier, I think, uh, we're gonna hear from soon
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: if we haven't already, have we already? Yeah? Max, it's
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: we got a hard nod for Max.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Jonathan, I know you called me a smart ass and
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: that email.
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: I saw it. I saw it. We'll see you next time, folks.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,