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Mega Edition: Kate And Her Testimony From The Ghislaine Maxwell Trial (8/21/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: And welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. Today, Mark's day
0:04
Speaker 1: number one of the second week of the Gallaine Maxwell trial,
0:08
Speaker 1: and we had more testimony all day, now several witnesses,
0:15
Speaker 1: but the majority of the testimony came from one person
0:19
Speaker 1: and that person was Kate. Now, the government had set
0:24
Speaker 1: this up as four victims of Glain Maxwell giving testimony
0:31
Speaker 1: about what occurred and what they alleged happened to them.
0:36
Speaker 1: Fast forward to today and we find out that Kate,
0:40
Speaker 1: who is giving testimony today, is not a victim of
0:44
Speaker 1: Epstein as far as the scope of the time frame
0:48
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, and is in fact a witness.
0:53
Speaker 1: So it's a bit confusing. No, the government asserted that
0:58
Speaker 1: they had four victims, but when all is said and done,
1:02
Speaker 1: they're really only going to have the three victims up
1:05
Speaker 1: here giving testimony, and now Kate who is being recognized
1:09
Speaker 1: as a witness, but not as a victim of Golaine Maxwell.
1:16
Speaker 1: So that was a bit of a surprise. And we
1:18
Speaker 1: saw some of those briefings get filed last night, and
1:21
Speaker 1: we saw some of the challenges to Kate's testimony here
1:26
Speaker 1: and Judge Nathan went on to rule that she will
1:30
Speaker 1: not be called a victim as far as the scope
1:34
Speaker 1: of these specific crimes go by the court and will
1:37
Speaker 1: be looked at as a witness. So her testimony today
1:42
Speaker 1: was relatively long. It took up a bulk of the day.
1:46
Speaker 1: And then after her testimony, they spoke with a person
1:51
Speaker 1: from JP Morgan Chase who has information and a bit
1:56
Speaker 1: of the know as far as the financials go between
2:00
Speaker 1: Maxwell and Epstein, meaning transfers of funds, and we also
2:06
Speaker 1: heard from an FBI special agent, but both of their
2:10
Speaker 1: testimonies were relatively brief. So that's pretty much what occurred
2:15
Speaker 1: today as far as an overview of the proceedings. And
2:21
Speaker 1: obviously I went through and put together some of the
2:26
Speaker 1: different back and forth moments that occurred in court today,
2:31
Speaker 1: some of the different questions that were asked and the
2:35
Speaker 1: answers that were given. So we're going to jump into
2:38
Speaker 1: that and we're going to see how it all wrapped
2:41
Speaker 1: up inside of that courtroom today. So let's take a
2:46
Speaker 1: look at some of these different proceedings and what went
2:51
Speaker 1: down all right, So before the jury even got into
2:59
Speaker 1: the room boom, the prosecution and the defense were ironing
3:02
Speaker 1: out an agreement about a stipulation that they came to
3:06
Speaker 1: regarding the previous witness. So the gentleman who was on
3:10
Speaker 1: the stand yesterday when the proceedings ended, they decided that
3:15
Speaker 1: instead of calling him back, they would just come to
3:18
Speaker 1: a voluntary agreement between the opposing parties concerning the disposition
3:22
Speaker 1: of some matter that's before the court. That's what a
3:25
Speaker 1: stipulation is. That's the definition of it. So what they
3:29
Speaker 1: did is instead of bringing this witness back, they came
3:32
Speaker 1: to the agreement, and then they read that stipulation, the
3:36
Speaker 1: agreement that both sides came to to the court as
3:39
Speaker 1: opposed to bringing the witness back for what I'm guessing
3:43
Speaker 1: is a short period of time, maybe a couple of questions. Again,
3:48
Speaker 1: this is the first case that I've ever followed this closely,
3:52
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to court proceedings. So this is
3:55
Speaker 1: something that obviously they use when there's a city situation
4:00
Speaker 1: that can be ironed out before you know, having to
4:03
Speaker 1: bring a witness back in for just a couple of minutes,
4:06
Speaker 1: I guess in the interest of keeping things moving. Also,
4:10
Speaker 1: before the jury even came in, Judge Nathan decided to
4:14
Speaker 1: not allow the raunchy pictures on the walls in the
4:17
Speaker 1: massage room and some of the other photos of the
4:21
Speaker 1: sex toys were excluded as well. Epstein's house was searched
4:28
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five and the scope of the
4:30
Speaker 1: crimes ended in two thousand and four, so that would
4:33
Speaker 1: make that stuff inadmissible. Now the schoolgirl uniforms, on the
4:37
Speaker 1: other hand, that is admissible as long as it's relevant
4:40
Speaker 1: to the testimony, and that was the ruling that Judge
4:45
Speaker 1: Nathan made before the jury even got into the court. Now,
4:49
Speaker 1: obviously us pleabes in the public we'll only get redacted
4:54
Speaker 1: versions and what the court decides that we're able to.
5:00
Speaker 1: But it's getting a bit concerning in my opinion, with
5:04
Speaker 1: the lack of transparency here, and it's pretty uncomfortable, honestly.
5:10
Speaker 1: You would think that a case like this, with as
5:13
Speaker 1: much interest as there is in this case, not only
5:17
Speaker 1: in America but around the world, that there would be
5:20
Speaker 1: a big push for a lot of transparency. But again
5:24
Speaker 1: we're having to rely on, you know, a few different
5:27
Speaker 1: reports coming out of the courtroom. So I can't wait
5:30
Speaker 1: to get to New York myself in the next few
5:33
Speaker 1: weeks right after the holidays and ride out the duration
5:38
Speaker 1: from there, because you know, it's one thing to get
5:42
Speaker 1: a idea, you know, a basic sketch of what's going on.
5:47
Speaker 1: It's a whole other thing to really be there and
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Speaker 1: to witness it and stuff like that and to get
5:52
Speaker 1: it yourself, to process it that way. So I can't
5:56
Speaker 1: wait to get in there the first week of January
5:59
Speaker 1: to get started. After the jury came in, the judge
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Speaker 1: denounced the stipulation agreement and called on the defense lawyer,
6:07
Speaker 1: Christian Everdell to read it to the court. The stipulation
6:11
Speaker 1: went on to say that the evidenced a cardboard box
6:16
Speaker 1: was in fact found in the closet of a guest
6:18
Speaker 1: room upstairs, and that the box was unopened. So you
6:23
Speaker 1: see why they did this little motion here, this stipulation
6:27
Speaker 1: as opposed to bringing this witness back, especially considering the
6:32
Speaker 1: long testimony that was given by the first witness today,
6:36
Speaker 1: who was referred to as Kate by the court, And
6:41
Speaker 1: you know it's gonna be a long process. They they
6:45
Speaker 1: they're speculating six weeks, so any point where they can
6:49
Speaker 1: move things along, I'm guessing that they'd want to do that.
6:53
Speaker 1: So they call Kate to the stand, and obviously I
7:00
Speaker 1: talked about a couple of minutes ago. The defense argued
7:02
Speaker 1: that she was not under age at the time of
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Speaker 1: her contact with Epstein and Maxwell, and she won't be
7:07
Speaker 1: recognized as a victim of the crimes charged in the
7:11
Speaker 1: indictment by the court. Instead, the court is referring to
7:15
Speaker 1: her as a witness. So the questions begin, and the
7:21
Speaker 1: first question asked by prosecution is about a piece of
7:25
Speaker 1: evidence and if she recognizes it. She responds that yes,
7:30
Speaker 1: she does recognize it, and when she was asked what
7:32
Speaker 1: it was, she responded that it was her driver's license.
7:36
Speaker 1: This line of questioning then moves towards what Kate does
7:39
Speaker 1: for a living, and she said that she worked with
7:42
Speaker 1: survivors of trauma currently and when pressed about what she
7:46
Speaker 1: did previously, she answered that she was a musician and singer,
7:51
Speaker 1: So setting it up for you know who she is her,
7:55
Speaker 1: you know, an outline of who the court is talking
7:58
Speaker 1: to her basically. Then it goes into Kate's account of
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Speaker 1: how she met Maxwell in Paris and how she was
8:07
Speaker 1: introduced to Epstein's pal by one of her ex boyfriends.
8:11
Speaker 1: She says that she was approximately seventeen years old when
8:13
Speaker 1: this meeting happened, and she went on to add some
8:16
Speaker 1: context She described how when she met Maxwell, they discussed
8:20
Speaker 1: what her plans were, not only for the night, but
8:23
Speaker 1: also questions revolving around where she lived and you know,
8:26
Speaker 1: some other small talk. After this small talk, she was
8:29
Speaker 1: invited to Maxwell's house, and you know, she accepted the
8:34
Speaker 1: invite and went to Maxwell's house a few weeks later
8:38
Speaker 1: for some tea. And again it shows you here how
8:43
Speaker 1: Maxwell rolled. One of her favorite moves was to get
8:47
Speaker 1: into the confidence of these girls by acting like, you know,
8:51
Speaker 1: the happy, go lucky older sister or you know, the
8:56
Speaker 1: affluent woman who comes into their life to offer them,
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Speaker 1: you know, whatever kind of package or whatever kind of
9:06
Speaker 1: offer that these girls might not have ever had before.
9:10
Speaker 1: And most of these girls are thinking to themselves, hey,
9:13
Speaker 1: look at this, this is the upper crust. They're not
9:16
Speaker 1: thinking to themselves that these are the kind of people
9:18
Speaker 1: that are going to engage in abuse. So of course
9:22
Speaker 1: she accepts the invite to go to someone like Maxwell's
9:25
Speaker 1: house to have a tea a situation with her. Why
9:29
Speaker 1: not sit down, have a little tea party. You know,
9:32
Speaker 1: who knows what comes of it. Perhaps you can climb
9:34
Speaker 1: the social ladder, perhaps a job opening. You know, these
9:38
Speaker 1: are the kind of things that meetings that usually lead
9:41
Speaker 1: to that kind of thing. So Kate went on to
9:44
Speaker 1: say about how when she went to Maxwell's house, how
9:48
Speaker 1: she saw pictures of a man with salt and pepper hair,
9:52
Speaker 1: who she says that now she recognizes as Jeffrey Epstein.
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Speaker 1: She says that Maxwell made her feel special and that
9:59
Speaker 1: she had a good time during the trip to Maxwell's
10:01
Speaker 1: for tea, and she thought that she had found a
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Speaker 1: connection with Maxwell and that it could be meaningful for her.
10:06
Speaker 1: You know, somebody that an older sister type, a mentor
10:10
Speaker 1: somebody who had been in the upper crust. And unfortunately,
10:18
Speaker 1: that was the exact web that they liked to weave,
10:21
Speaker 1: wasn't it. According to all the reports we know, this
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Speaker 1: was exactly how Maxwell operated lay the trap act like
10:31
Speaker 1: you're this loving, warm, great person who's going to open
10:35
Speaker 1: doors for people and then get them inside of the
10:39
Speaker 1: web and Epstein strikes. So it's pretty typical for the
10:47
Speaker 1: way Epstein and Maxwell went about their business. She had
10:59
Speaker 1: a feeling when she left that meeting that she had
11:01
Speaker 1: possibly had found a friend and that it was more
11:04
Speaker 1: than just a meeting, right. You know, Maxwell had told
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Speaker 1: her that Epstein was a philanthropist, and she was just
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Speaker 1: the kind of person that he liked to help. Kate
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Speaker 1: says that she was seventeen and lonely and felt like
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Speaker 1: an outcast, and she hadn't found a group of friends yet,
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Speaker 1: so had no friends, nobody to associate with really, and
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Speaker 1: she was, you know, kind of floating through meets. Maxwell
11:26
Speaker 1: thinks that this is going to be the when the turn.
11:29
Speaker 1: The worm turns right, get in with this group of socialites,
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Speaker 1: and who knows what happens there. We all know that
11:36
Speaker 1: when you're around people in the so called elite, a
11:40
Speaker 1: lot of doors are opened up for you. Now, if
11:42
Speaker 1: you want to walk through them doors and pay the
11:45
Speaker 1: price that it's going to cost as far as whatever
11:49
Speaker 1: debts you're going to owe, then that's a whole different story.
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Speaker 1: But those doors will be open to you if you're
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Speaker 1: hanging out with people like this. Kate then went on
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Speaker 1: to talk about how she met Epstein for the first
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Speaker 1: time and how she was invited to Maxwell's mused townhouse
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Speaker 1: where there was a loud man on the phone. He
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Speaker 1: was wearing a sweatsuit, a jogging suit basically, and she
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Speaker 1: recognized the man as Epstein. Maxwell went on to tell
12:21
Speaker 1: Epstein that she was the girl that she had told
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Speaker 1: him about and commented on how she was unusually strong
12:27
Speaker 1: for her size. Now, according to Kate, she was ninety
12:30
Speaker 1: five pounds at the time, and then, in a bizarre
12:33
Speaker 1: ass request, Maxwell asks Kate if she would give Epstein's
12:39
Speaker 1: feet a squeeze to show him that unusual strength that
12:42
Speaker 1: Maxwell had talked about. Kate says that she went on
12:46
Speaker 1: ahead and did that. So again, it just shows you
12:50
Speaker 1: the cooperation level between Maxwell and Epstein, and it can
12:54
Speaker 1: be if it wasn't for the overall picture. You could
12:57
Speaker 1: look at something like this and say, all right, maybe
12:59
Speaker 1: the guy has a foot fetish, right, and he just
13:01
Speaker 1: wants his feet touched. But we know so much more.
13:04
Speaker 1: We know so much background, and there's so much other
13:07
Speaker 1: evidence out there of what massage really meant to these people.
13:11
Speaker 1: So when you frame it like that and you look
13:13
Speaker 1: at the overall picture, it's pretty terrifying to know how
13:18
Speaker 1: many girls came through this massage room. We're talking about
13:23
Speaker 1: dozens and dozens if you go back to Jeffrey Epstein's
13:25
Speaker 1: first indictment and what must have occurred here and how
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Speaker 1: many of them. Maxwell allegedly had a role in grooming
13:34
Speaker 1: and bringing to this point, After one of Epstein's massage
13:39
Speaker 1: therapists canceled, Maxwell contacted Kate and asked her if she
13:43
Speaker 1: could fill in. Kate is then asked if she was
13:46
Speaker 1: a massage therapist by the prosecution at the time, and
13:49
Speaker 1: she says no that she was not. So again, why
13:51
Speaker 1: would Epstein and Maxwell be calling a seventeen year old
13:54
Speaker 1: girl to come over and give them a massage. They
13:57
Speaker 1: have all the money in the world. They could bring
13:59
Speaker 1: in the best massage therapists money can buy, but instead
14:03
Speaker 1: they're bringing in a seventeen year old girl who has
14:06
Speaker 1: no training. It really sets the stage for Maxwell and
14:10
Speaker 1: Epstein being up to no good, right again, another foundational
14:14
Speaker 1: building block I thought in this whole testimony, I thought
14:19
Speaker 1: that was one of the stronger moments as far as
14:21
Speaker 1: the ties that bind and as far as a moment
14:24
Speaker 1: of Maxwell being you know, put right there as part
14:29
Speaker 1: of it, right, part of Jeffrey Epstein's whole nonsensical bs.
14:34
Speaker 1: And it is interesting to me that it was Maxwell
14:40
Speaker 1: made the phone call brought her in and here we are, right,
14:43
Speaker 1: especially considering the charges of Maxwell grooming, setting them up,
14:47
Speaker 1: trafficking and all of that. So what it does. Is
14:49
Speaker 1: it definitely foundational blocks? Right? The questions then turned to
14:56
Speaker 1: Epstein's attire and what he was wearing when Kate came
14:59
Speaker 1: over as the fill in massuse. When she was asked
15:03
Speaker 1: what he was wearing under the robe, she says that
15:05
Speaker 1: he was naked. Now, imagine that this gross ass mf
15:10
Speaker 1: naked under that robe waiting for you. You're a seventeen year
15:13
Speaker 1: old girl, can't even imagine the trauma. We all know
15:19
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein's a goofy looking asshole too. Asked if
15:24
Speaker 1: Maxwell was present, again, she says yes. She then says
15:28
Speaker 1: that Maxwell gave her massage oil. Asked by the prosecution
15:31
Speaker 1: if Epstein initiated sexual contact with her conduct with her,
15:35
Speaker 1: she again responds with yes. When asked where Maxwell was,
15:39
Speaker 1: Kate says that Maxwell was in the doorway. Now, according
15:43
Speaker 1: to people in the courtroom, several of the sexual acts
15:46
Speaker 1: are described here but barred by the court from being
15:49
Speaker 1: made public, And frankly, I'm cool with that. I really
15:51
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about that here on the podcast.
15:54
Speaker 1: I'm sure those transcripts are gonna come out and you'll
15:56
Speaker 1: be able to see them. But after all of these
15:58
Speaker 1: years talking about this stuff like I have to drink
16:01
Speaker 1: bleach after every one of these episodes, like doubts myself
16:04
Speaker 1: in bleach and then drink it because it's obscene. All
16:09
Speaker 1: of it's obscene. Kate goes on to say after her
16:13
Speaker 1: massage with Epstein, she says that she was met by Maxwell,
16:17
Speaker 1: who had a whole bunch of questions for her about
16:19
Speaker 1: her time with Epstein. She asked questions like did you
16:22
Speaker 1: have fun and offered positive reinforcement by telling her she
16:26
Speaker 1: was a good girl. Kate goes on to say that
16:29
Speaker 1: she was pleased that she was able to please Maxwell.
16:32
Speaker 1: Now note she doesn't say Epstein, but that it was
16:36
Speaker 1: Maxwell she wanted to please. Once again, it goes to
16:39
Speaker 1: show the hold maxwell her hat on these girls and
16:42
Speaker 1: how Maxwell allegedly was a key component to the normalization
16:46
Speaker 1: process that we've seen over and over again. And it's
16:53
Speaker 1: telling right that Kate was more worried about pleasing Maxwell
16:59
Speaker 1: than even at so again foundational blocks, right, folks, That's
17:05
Speaker 1: what they're building here, at least attempting to do it.
17:09
Speaker 1: Kate goes on to describe how she was given a
17:11
Speaker 1: schoolgirl outfit that included a short, pleated skirt a shirt, panties,
17:16
Speaker 1: little white panties, and white socks. When asked why she
17:20
Speaker 1: agreed to put on the outfit, she said that she
17:23
Speaker 1: didn't know how to say no and that she feared
17:25
Speaker 1: the consequences if she declined wearing it. That's definitely one
17:29
Speaker 1: of their punishments, right, one of their tools of punishment.
17:32
Speaker 1: I should say, as quick as we can give you
17:35
Speaker 1: all of this, we can take it away. And that's
17:39
Speaker 1: what these people do, right. They know that a lot
17:41
Speaker 1: of these girls are in a position where they can't
17:43
Speaker 1: friend for themselves perhaps, or they come from broken homes
17:47
Speaker 1: or drug addiction, whatever it may be, and then they
17:50
Speaker 1: use that as a folk room. They use that to
17:53
Speaker 1: manipulate the situation and to steer these girls into these
17:57
Speaker 1: sorts of things and having these girls think that it's
18:00
Speaker 1: a normal process as they're going through it. Asked if
18:05
Speaker 1: Epstein performed a sex act on her, Jane, who responded
18:09
Speaker 1: in soft tones, said yes. Maxwell then went on to
18:13
Speaker 1: tell Kate that she was one of Jeffrey Epstein's favorites.
18:16
Speaker 1: So I don't know how Maxwell can say she doesn't
18:19
Speaker 1: know what was going on here, folks. It's rather obvious
18:22
Speaker 1: that Maxwell had an idea of what was going on here. Okay,
18:26
Speaker 1: and I'm being a coy. It's rather obvious that she
18:30
Speaker 1: was involved. How are you going to stand in the
18:32
Speaker 1: doorway and watch what happens and not know? How are
18:35
Speaker 1: you going to allegedly abuse these girls with Epstein at
18:39
Speaker 1: least in some instances and act like you don't know?
18:43
Speaker 1: And that, of course is why she's facing those perjury
18:45
Speaker 1: charges on the back end of this as well. Kate
18:52
Speaker 1: also tells the court that she was bought a Prada
18:55
Speaker 1: bag by Maxwell for her eighteenth birthday, again showing the
18:59
Speaker 1: connection with Max Well and the grooming process. So that's
19:02
Speaker 1: how it works, right, Let me buy you some gifts. Oh,
19:05
Speaker 1: this is normal. See what I can do for you.
19:07
Speaker 1: All you have to do is do what we want
19:09
Speaker 1: you to do. The prosecutor goes on to ask about
19:15
Speaker 1: Kate about the compensation fund, and Kate says that she
19:19
Speaker 1: did indeed get compensated by the fund. When asked if
19:23
Speaker 1: she was going to sue Maxwell, Kate answers, no, Now,
19:27
Speaker 1: if you accepted money from the compensation fund, that prohibits
19:31
Speaker 1: you from suing any of Jeffrey Epstein's cohorts or employees.
19:36
Speaker 1: That was part of the sign off deal on the
19:41
Speaker 1: Compensation Fund paperwork. Now, like I've always said throughout that
19:46
Speaker 1: whole process, I'm not going to sit here and tell
19:48
Speaker 1: anybody what to do as far as getting paid out this,
19:52
Speaker 1: that or the other thing. None of us walked even
19:55
Speaker 1: a foot in these girls shoes. We don't know the
19:59
Speaker 1: absolute night that they've lived in. And if some of
20:02
Speaker 1: them just want to be done with it and you know,
20:04
Speaker 1: try and rebuild their lives as best as possible and
20:07
Speaker 1: take out whatever the payment is, I completely get that.
20:11
Speaker 1: But it's shady from the beginning that this you know,
20:15
Speaker 1: document would even be drummed up. And you have the
20:18
Speaker 1: same people working on this fund who worked on the
20:21
Speaker 1: nine to eleven fund, and from the jump it's always
20:24
Speaker 1: been a bit weird to me. Then you look at
20:27
Speaker 1: the fact that the United States government, via taxes, gets
20:30
Speaker 1: the lion's share of this money, and you got yourselves
20:33
Speaker 1: quite the dumpster fire once again. So they'll try and say, oh, well,
20:38
Speaker 1: you got a payment from the compensation fund, so you're
20:41
Speaker 1: just looking for money, And my counter to that is
20:45
Speaker 1: that's restitution for time served, all the years of suffering,
20:50
Speaker 1: all the years of heartache, and Jeffrey Epstein's estate finally
20:54
Speaker 1: recognizes that pain and suffering and that Epstein was the
20:58
Speaker 1: cause of it, so they had to pay out money.
21:00
Speaker 1: That's really what it comes down to. When they get
21:05
Speaker 1: back from lunch, get back from their break, they set
21:11
Speaker 1: the tone right off the bat, meaning Bobby Sternham Glenn
21:15
Speaker 1: Maxwell's lawyers who are now ta taking over the questioning.
21:22
Speaker 1: So she sets the tone right away, and she says
21:26
Speaker 1: that Kate comes from a posh family and her mother
21:30
Speaker 1: was a debutante and her stepfather was painted as someone
21:34
Speaker 1: who was very wealthy and who had a residence in
21:37
Speaker 1: a tony neighborhood. Sternham also is attempting to paint Kate
21:41
Speaker 1: as an international model. Now, she asked Kate, were you
21:46
Speaker 1: on billboards? Kate responds that she was on one billboard,
21:50
Speaker 1: then asked about her work for a lingerie company. Kate
21:53
Speaker 1: says that she was a model for the company, but
21:56
Speaker 1: the company failed right after its launch, so it wasn't
21:59
Speaker 1: like she had some career with this lingerie company. The
22:03
Speaker 1: defense goes on to ask about Kate's boyfriend, who's who
22:07
Speaker 1: she says was an older man who was in fact
22:10
Speaker 1: a former classmate of Maxwell's at Oxford. Just another coincidence, folks, right,
22:15
Speaker 1: you know, sure are a lot of coincidences around Glene Maxwell,
22:18
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and this whole entire criminal conspiracy conspiracy, aren't there.
22:24
Speaker 1: Sternham keeps. Sternheim keeps hammering away, asking if Kate was
22:28
Speaker 1: discovered as a musician in a piano bar by the
22:31
Speaker 1: musician Seal. Kate responds no. Sternham then says to Kate
22:36
Speaker 1: that in the past that in the past she asked
22:40
Speaker 1: if Kate had acted in movies. Kate says she had
22:43
Speaker 1: no speaking roles, but had been in movies. Sternham isn't
22:46
Speaker 1: satisfied and continues by asking Kate if she was ever
22:50
Speaker 1: in a movie with a well known UK actor, and
22:52
Speaker 1: Kate responds that yes, she was. So what Maxwell's team's
22:57
Speaker 1: doing here is trying to establish that, you know, Kate's
23:01
Speaker 1: an actress, she knows how to act, she comes from
23:04
Speaker 1: this posh family, this whole entire setup and this is
23:10
Speaker 1: all just, you know, a fabrication, basically what Bobby Sternham
23:14
Speaker 1: is trying to set up here. Sternham is digging in
23:26
Speaker 1: and asking Kate about the times she had spoken publicly
23:30
Speaker 1: and even asking about the time in Judge Richard Berman's court,
23:34
Speaker 1: who was the judge who was overseeing the Epstein case.
23:37
Speaker 1: So she's asking how many times Kate had spoken publicly
23:41
Speaker 1: about her situation with Epstein, and even about the time
23:46
Speaker 1: that she was able to speak in front of Richard Berman.
23:49
Speaker 1: After Epstein's death, Judge Berman lets some of the accusers
23:53
Speaker 1: come in and have their say in the court because
23:56
Speaker 1: they were never going to get that now that Epstein
23:58
Speaker 1: was dead. So Sternheim was asking Kate about that as
24:03
Speaker 1: far as her public acknowledgment of this situation and talking
24:09
Speaker 1: about herself in the public eye. She went on to
24:13
Speaker 1: also ask if Kate had ever spoken with Virginia Roberts,
24:15
Speaker 1: and Kate says she had. Now the Kate now the
24:19
Speaker 1: defense decides that they're gonna change it up a bit
24:22
Speaker 1: and they start going after Kate for her drug use,
24:25
Speaker 1: asking Kate if she used drugs for ten years, and
24:29
Speaker 1: Kate responds that she was addicted to drugs for ten years. Now,
24:33
Speaker 1: this is a typical move, right, They'll try and set
24:35
Speaker 1: it up like Kate's a drug addict and she can't
24:38
Speaker 1: be trusted, her memory can't be trusted. Nothing can be trusted,
24:41
Speaker 1: that she says, and that she is somebody who is
24:46
Speaker 1: not credible. Once again, the heart of the issue here
24:49
Speaker 1: for the defense is credibility, and they're gonna hammer home
24:53
Speaker 1: at it. And when you have people who have questionable backgrounds,
24:57
Speaker 1: they're gonna be a little bit more exposed as far
25:00
Speaker 1: as the defense and the strategy that the defense is
25:03
Speaker 1: going to employ. Sternheim then goes on to continue with
25:11
Speaker 1: that angle about the drug use, and she asked if
25:14
Speaker 1: it could have affected Kate's memory, and Kate says that
25:16
Speaker 1: they didn't affect their memories that she always had, And
25:21
Speaker 1: I think it's a stretch to say that the drug
25:23
Speaker 1: use would affect her memory for something as traumatic as
25:26
Speaker 1: all of this, I would think that she would compartmentalize
25:33
Speaker 1: before she forgot right, So I think that's kind of
25:37
Speaker 1: a weak strategy for the defense to go after. But again,
25:41
Speaker 1: I'm certainly not a doctor or anything like that. Maxwell's
25:46
Speaker 1: team they were probing about her personal relationships today as well,
25:50
Speaker 1: asking about about her ex husband, who owns two restaurants,
25:53
Speaker 1: and they asked if she divorced him. She replied that
25:57
Speaker 1: he divorced her. Then team Maxwell went on to ask
26:00
Speaker 1: if Kate married again, and she said that she hadn't.
26:06
Speaker 1: They went on to this other strategy here as well,
26:10
Speaker 1: asking if Kate had ever asked somebody to plant drugs
26:15
Speaker 1: on the father of her child to advance a custody case,
26:19
Speaker 1: and she responded with absolutely not. So they're going in, right,
26:25
Speaker 1: They are definitely going in on the credibility aspect, and
26:29
Speaker 1: I think that it's one of those strategies that it
26:35
Speaker 1: could pay off, but it could also really backfire. And
26:39
Speaker 1: so far the defense has had you know, I don't
26:43
Speaker 1: want to say success because it hasn't been successful, but
26:49
Speaker 1: they've had a complete and focused strategy on chipping away
26:56
Speaker 1: at credibility. Now I would really like to see the
27:02
Speaker 1: prosecution come swinging down with a hammer and really drop
27:06
Speaker 1: the drop it on these guys, and hopefully that's coming soon.
27:09
Speaker 1: But there's been a lot of back and forth, for sure,
27:13
Speaker 1: and again Kate being on the stand today, this is
27:16
Speaker 1: some damning evidence, right, A lot of foundational evidence, a
27:19
Speaker 1: lot of stuff that definitely ties Maxwell to Epstein and
27:23
Speaker 1: certainly ties Maxwell to the crimes that were being committed,
27:29
Speaker 1: but them positioning her as a victim at first and
27:33
Speaker 1: then her just being a witness today, I think again
27:37
Speaker 1: shows reflects poorly on the prosecution. So I certainly have
27:42
Speaker 1: my concerns folks about the prosecution, and those don't seem
27:45
Speaker 1: to be going away anytime soon. Now, Judge Nathan calls
27:52
Speaker 1: for lunch after this exchange with Kate, and obviously it
27:57
Speaker 1: was a long run for her. This was a bulk
27:59
Speaker 1: of the day Kate was on the stand and after
28:03
Speaker 1: the stipulation agreement to lead off the trial, it was
28:06
Speaker 1: basically the Kate the whole entire time before lunch. So
28:12
Speaker 1: after Kate was done, Judge Nathan called for lunch and
28:16
Speaker 1: then the next witness up was Patrick McHugh from JP
28:20
Speaker 1: Morgan Chase. Now he stated under oath that he can
28:25
Speaker 1: speak on who can authorize or access accounts at the firm,
28:29
Speaker 1: and then the prosecution went on to name a bunch
28:32
Speaker 1: of different financial documents that are under seal, but one
28:35
Speaker 1: of those wire transfers between Maxwell and Epstein for seven
28:39
Speaker 1: point four million dollars had been between the JP Morgan
28:42
Speaker 1: Chase Bank and the Bank of New York Melon. So
28:47
Speaker 1: what they're trying to establish here are the financial ties
28:50
Speaker 1: between Epstein and Maxwell, which in my opinion should have
28:54
Speaker 1: been the first thing that they did, because these financial
28:57
Speaker 1: ties run deep, and who knows how much illicit money
29:01
Speaker 1: was being passed between Maxwell and Epstein. And again I
29:04
Speaker 1: hate to harp on it, but if this was a
29:06
Speaker 1: Rico case, they could really go hard here. Unfortunately it's not,
29:11
Speaker 1: so the scope of it is limited, and what they're
29:14
Speaker 1: trying to show here is the financial connection between Epstein
29:18
Speaker 1: and Maxwell. Unfortunately, it's not going to go deeper than that.
29:22
Speaker 1: So that was pretty much it for Patrick McHugh and
29:26
Speaker 1: his testimony. So they moved on to the next witness,
29:31
Speaker 1: who was Kelly maguire, a special agent of the FBI.
29:36
Speaker 1: They were asking her about a piece of evidence and
29:41
Speaker 1: that piece of evidence was Epstein's townhouse. They asked about
29:45
Speaker 1: the massage room on the third floor and if they
29:47
Speaker 1: accessed it during the raid, and she answered that they had.
29:52
Speaker 1: That was pretty much it, though, right there was not
29:56
Speaker 1: much else after that. Time was running out and Judge
30:00
Speaker 1: Nathan decided to call it a day. So I don't
30:05
Speaker 1: know if we'll hear more from Kelly McGuire tomorrow. I
30:09
Speaker 1: don't think that we will. Honestly, Again, a lot of
30:11
Speaker 1: this stuff was under seal, so we don't have much
30:15
Speaker 1: to go on, so we'll have to play it by
30:17
Speaker 1: ear to see if we'll hear more from Kelly McGuire
30:19
Speaker 1: tomorrow and tomorrow's testimony, but it doesn't look like they're
30:24
Speaker 1: gonna get any more out of her. So I'm interested
30:27
Speaker 1: to see where things go tomorrow and where we stand.
30:31
Speaker 1: But as of today, folks, that's that's where we're at.
30:35
Speaker 1: That's where it is. That's what happened today in the
30:38
Speaker 1: courtroom from the bit that's available to us as of
30:42
Speaker 1: now now. Tomorrow morning, obviously we'll be back for the
30:46
Speaker 1: morning update and we'll take a look at any other
30:49
Speaker 1: information that might have come out overnight to give us
30:52
Speaker 1: some context here, But as of now, that's what it is.
30:57
Speaker 1: Kate gave her testimony, had the FBI agents up there,
31:01
Speaker 1: and that was pretty much the duration of the day.
31:06
Speaker 1: So we'll see, folks. It's getting to it right. We're
31:10
Speaker 1: in week two now, day one, and it's just going
31:13
Speaker 1: to continue to fly by, more witnesses, more testimony, and unfortunately,
31:19
Speaker 1: after each day, more questions. If you'd like to contact me,
31:25
Speaker 1: you can do that at Bobby Kapuci at ProtonMail dot com.
31:28
Speaker 1: That's bo b b Y c ap you Cci at
31:33
Speaker 1: ProtonMail dot com. You can also find me on Twitter
31:37
Speaker 1: at bo bby underscore c ap u c CI. All Right, folks,
31:43
Speaker 1: what's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
31:46
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna continue pulling the
31:50
Speaker 1: mask off the monster known as Glyn Maxwell, and to
31:54
Speaker 1: do that, we're once again gonna turn to the survivor
31:57
Speaker 1: impact statements that were given during her sentencing. Kate, Good afternoon,
32:03
Speaker 1: your honor. Thank you for hearing me. I believe you've
32:06
Speaker 1: already seen my victim impact statement, so I have something
32:10
Speaker 1: else to say at a time when women's rights are
32:13
Speaker 1: so callously been discarded. As the mother of a young daughter,
32:16
Speaker 1: I fear for the safety and freedom of my child.
32:20
Speaker 1: Today offers hope that change is possible. Our voices may
32:24
Speaker 1: not have been heard before, but we united to bring
32:27
Speaker 1: justice to a common enemy. If we cannot stop women
32:30
Speaker 1: who have been raped from being forced to bear the
32:33
Speaker 1: children of their rapists, then we must take a stand
32:36
Speaker 1: on zero tolerance to those who abuse their power to
32:39
Speaker 1: groom and traffic and rape the vulnerable. How you do
32:43
Speaker 1: anything is how you should do everything. Every single person
32:46
Speaker 1: should have equal value. Every single person should have an
32:49
Speaker 1: equal right to be protected. Every single child must have
32:53
Speaker 1: their innocence defended. No person should be shielded from the
32:57
Speaker 1: consequence of their actions, no matter their staff as her class,
33:01
Speaker 1: Gland's lacqueral morse and her blatant refusal to take responsibility
33:05
Speaker 1: for her crimes towards us is a final insult. Having
33:09
Speaker 1: a difficult childhood is irrelevant to the choices she made
33:12
Speaker 1: to traffic and supply women and children to Jeffrey Epstein
33:16
Speaker 1: and other powerful men. Despite the atrocities perpetrated on me,
33:21
Speaker 1: I have never recruited a child or any person to
33:24
Speaker 1: be sexually abused. Someone being a hard worker does not
33:27
Speaker 1: excuse sex trafficking of miners. Someone starting a nonprofit does
33:31
Speaker 1: not excuse sex trafficking of miners. Someone who had a
33:35
Speaker 1: difficult or even an abusive father does not excuse sex
33:39
Speaker 1: trafficking of miners. Losing money or prestige does not excuse
33:44
Speaker 1: sex trafficking of miners. The lacuero morse or responsibility taken
33:49
Speaker 1: by Glaine for how she ruined the lives of countless
33:51
Speaker 1: women and children is exactly how we can tell that
33:55
Speaker 1: she doesn't think what she did was wrong, She's not sorry.
33:59
Speaker 1: She would do it again. I have known Gland for
34:02
Speaker 1: many years now, and I have seen her be kind
34:04
Speaker 1: and generous to me and many others until she doesn't
34:07
Speaker 1: get what she wants from that person. And then I
34:10
Speaker 1: have seen her stop at nothing to enforce her will.
34:13
Speaker 1: A manipulative, cruel, and merciless person who only uses kindness
34:18
Speaker 1: to manipulate and generosity to seek recognition. Today, for the
34:23
Speaker 1: first time, I stand with my sisters bonded by a
34:26
Speaker 1: trauma that I wish on no one to draw a
34:28
Speaker 1: line and to set a precedent to say enough is enough,
34:31
Speaker 1: to say no with a chorus of voices that you
34:34
Speaker 1: can't ignore. May that chorus ring through the years of
34:38
Speaker 1: people still being victimized and give them strength. May it
34:41
Speaker 1: echo in the ears of the perpetrators to remind them
34:44
Speaker 1: that there are those of us who will never stop
34:47
Speaker 1: until we stop them. Today is not a happy day.
34:51
Speaker 1: I take no pleasure in being part of a world
34:53
Speaker 1: where this is necessary. But I'm proud to stand shoulder
34:56
Speaker 1: to shoulder with these brave women and do what is
34:59
Speaker 1: necessary to stop Glaine, to hold her accountable, and for
35:02
Speaker 1: the first time, in my life not to feel afraid.
35:06
Speaker 1: I cannot have done this alone, and I thank those
35:08
Speaker 1: who walked alongside me and those who carried me. Today
35:12
Speaker 1: I can look at Golaine and tell her that I
35:14
Speaker 1: became what I am today in spite of her and
35:17
Speaker 1: her efforts to make me feel powerless and insignificant. And
35:22
Speaker 1: I will pass that empowerment to my daughter that she
35:25
Speaker 1: may never consider being silent when faced with injustice, because
35:29
Speaker 1: she will feel all of us standing behind her. Thank you.
35:33
Speaker 1: Next up, Virginia Roberts. Good afternoon, Your honor may have
35:38
Speaker 1: pleased the court. This statement I am reading on behalf
35:40
Speaker 1: of my client, Virginia Roberts, is written to Glene Maxwell
35:44
Speaker 1: and for all of you out there who are trying
35:46
Speaker 1: to rehabilitate Glanne Maxwell's reputation. Listen up. Twenty two years ago,
35:51
Speaker 1: in the summer of two thousand, you spotted me at
35:54
Speaker 1: mar A Lago in Florida, and you made a choice.
35:57
Speaker 1: You chose to follow me and procure me for Epstein.
36:01
Speaker 1: Just hours later, you and he abused me together for
36:04
Speaker 1: the first time. Together. You damaged me physically, mentally, sexually,
36:09
Speaker 1: and emotionally. Together, you did unthinkable things that still have
36:13
Speaker 1: a corrosive impact on me to this day. I want
36:16
Speaker 1: to be clear about one thing, without question. Jeffrey Epstein
36:20
Speaker 1: was a terrible pedophile. But I would have never met
36:23
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein if not for you. For me, and for
36:27
Speaker 1: so many others, you opened the door to hell. And then, Golayne,
36:31
Speaker 1: like a wolf in sheep's clothing, you use being a
36:33
Speaker 1: female to betray us, and you let us all through it.
36:37
Speaker 1: When you did that, you changed the course of our
36:39
Speaker 1: lives forever. You joked that you were like a new
36:41
Speaker 1: mother to us as a woman. I think you understood
36:44
Speaker 1: the damage that you were causing, the price you were
36:47
Speaker 1: making us victims pay. You could have put an end
36:50
Speaker 1: to the rapes, the molestation, the sickening manipulation that you arranged, witnessed,
36:55
Speaker 1: and even took part in. You could have called the
36:58
Speaker 1: authorities and reported that you were part of something awful.
37:01
Speaker 1: I was young and naive when we met, but you
37:04
Speaker 1: knew that, in fact, you were counting on it. My
37:07
Speaker 1: life as a young person was just beginning. You rob
37:10
Speaker 1: me of that by exploiting my hopes and my ambitions. Golane,
37:14
Speaker 1: the pain you have caused me is almost indescribable because
37:18
Speaker 1: of your choices and the world you brought me into.
37:21
Speaker 1: I don't sleep. Nightmares wake me at all hours. In
37:25
Speaker 1: those dreams, I relive the awful things that you and
37:28
Speaker 1: others did to me and the things that you forced
37:31
Speaker 1: me to do. Those memories will never go away. I
37:35
Speaker 1: have trouble meeting new people without questioning if somehow they're
37:38
Speaker 1: going to hurt me too. There's not a day that
37:40
Speaker 1: doesn't go by that I don't ask why why did
37:43
Speaker 1: you enjoy hurting us so much? I worry every single
37:47
Speaker 1: day and night that you will get away with it
37:49
Speaker 1: and evade being punished. I will worry about that until
37:52
Speaker 1: you're brought to justice. And what should that justice look like? Golane,
37:57
Speaker 1: You deserve to spend the rest of your life in prison,
37:59
Speaker 1: in a jail, so you deserve to be trapped in
38:02
Speaker 1: a cage forever, just like you trapped your victims. But
38:05
Speaker 1: I want you to know that while you tried to
38:07
Speaker 1: break me, you did not succeed. Despite you, I've grown
38:11
Speaker 1: into a woman who tries to do good in the world,
38:14
Speaker 1: a woman on her best days, who feels like she's
38:16
Speaker 1: making a difference. My promise to you is as follows.
38:20
Speaker 1: As long as you and perpetrators like you continue to
38:23
Speaker 1: pray on the vulnerable, I will not stop standing up
38:27
Speaker 1: and speaking out. Together with so many others you abused,
38:31
Speaker 1: we will do all we can to keep predators from
38:33
Speaker 1: stealing the innocence of children. I will never give up.
38:37
Speaker 1: I will never go away. If you ever get out
38:40
Speaker 1: of prison, I will be here watching you and making
38:42
Speaker 1: sure you never hurt anyone else again. Next up, Sarah
38:48
Speaker 1: Ransom your honor. It's been a long journey to bring
38:51
Speaker 1: Maxwell to justice. Although I have physically escaped the hideous
38:55
Speaker 1: traps that by Epstein, Maxwell and other co conspirators, I continue, now,
39:00
Speaker 1: seventeen years later, to suffer from the horrific trauma that
39:03
Speaker 1: it caused. I came to New York at the age
39:07
Speaker 1: of twenty two, hoping to attend New York's Fit and
39:10
Speaker 1: work in the fashion industry. Soon after arriving, I met
39:14
Speaker 1: an Epstein Maxwell recruiter named Natalia Malashev. She described him
39:20
Speaker 1: as a kind philanthropist who could help me get into
39:22
Speaker 1: fit and provide much needed support. Over the next seven
39:27
Speaker 1: to eight months, I became, against my will, nothing more
39:30
Speaker 1: than a sex toy for the entertainment of Epstein, Maxwell
39:34
Speaker 1: and others. I was subjected to sexual predation multiple times
39:37
Speaker 1: per day, both in his New York mansion and on
39:40
Speaker 1: his private island in the US Virgin Islands. On one
39:44
Speaker 1: of the visits to the island, the sexual demands, degradation,
39:48
Speaker 1: and humiliation became so horrific that I tried to escape
39:51
Speaker 1: by attempting to jump off a cliff into shark infested water.
39:56
Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell were masters at finding young, vulnerable girl
40:00
Speaker 1: and young women to exploit. Upon targeting vulnerable girls or
40:04
Speaker 1: young women, they would ingratiate themselves to her, giving her
40:08
Speaker 1: compliments and small gifts, telling her how special she was.
40:11
Speaker 1: Soon after lulling me and others into a false sense
40:14
Speaker 1: of security and comfort, they pounced, ensnaring us in the
40:18
Speaker 1: upside down twisted world of rape, rape rape. Like Hotel California,
40:24
Speaker 1: you can check into the Epstein Maxwell Dungeon of sexual health,
40:27
Speaker 1: but you can never leave. The manipulation, intimidation, and emotional
40:32
Speaker 1: abuse used to control the victims took many forms. In
40:36
Speaker 1: my case, Epstein and Maxwell used my dysfunctional family history,
40:40
Speaker 1: being naive visa status, lack of education, and desire to
40:44
Speaker 1: go to fit to manipulate, scare, and and snare me.
40:47
Speaker 1: She told me that I was exceptionally intelligent and that
40:50
Speaker 1: I had the real potential to be someone and something
40:53
Speaker 1: in life. One day, Epstein and Maxwell's strong ties to
40:57
Speaker 1: fit could make this happen. With their help, my mission
41:00
Speaker 1: was almost assured, but there was always a butt. First
41:05
Speaker 1: I had to write my application, which I did, but
41:07
Speaker 1: Maxwell had to review it and conveniently always found fault.
41:11
Speaker 1: Then another butt, I needed to lose thirty pounds because
41:15
Speaker 1: I was a piglet. Maxwell's numerous degrading descriptions of me.
41:19
Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell put me on the strict Atkins diet
41:22
Speaker 1: while simultaneously sending me to a psychiatrist who prescribed antidepressants
41:27
Speaker 1: that caused weight gain. It was a classic no win situation,
41:32
Speaker 1: and they knew it precisely what human traffickers seek. I
41:36
Speaker 1: never lost the weight, My application was never good enough,
41:39
Speaker 1: and it never got submitted. I thank the Almighty God
41:43
Speaker 1: that in two thousand and seven I managed to escape
41:45
Speaker 1: Lajara by fleeing to the UK. Since then, I've been
41:49
Speaker 1: coping as best as I can, and frequently experience flashbacks
41:52
Speaker 1: and wake up in cold sweat from nightmares from reliving
41:56
Speaker 1: the awful experience. I'm hypervigilant. I do not trust people easily.
42:01
Speaker 1: I experienced dramatic mood changes. I will sometimes start crying
42:04
Speaker 1: uncontrollably for reasons I cannot always comprehend. I work hard
42:09
Speaker 1: with several mental health professionals. They have diagnosed me with
42:12
Speaker 1: extreme symptoms of anxiety depression, low self esteem PTSD, and
42:17
Speaker 1: tendency to self harm. Despite my earnest effort, I have
42:21
Speaker 1: not realized life's true potential professionally, nor entered any healthy
42:25
Speaker 1: personal relationships. I've never married, and I don't have children,
42:29
Speaker 1: something I always wish for when I was a little girl.
42:32
Speaker 1: I shy away from meeting new people, and I have
42:35
Speaker 1: difficulty making new friends because I fear they too could
42:38
Speaker 1: be associated with Epstein and Maxwell and their enablers and
42:42
Speaker 1: co conspirators. To this day, I attend meetings to treat alcoholism,
42:47
Speaker 1: but I have had numerous relapses and I can't always
42:50
Speaker 1: control that. I know that only by the grace of
42:53
Speaker 1: God do I continue to live. I've attempted suicide twice
42:57
Speaker 1: since the abuse, both near and fatal. Last year, I
43:01
Speaker 1: traveled to New York to attend Maxwell's trial. It was
43:04
Speaker 1: therapeutic to hear the testimony of the four brave victim
43:07
Speaker 1: waitnesses whose experiences paralleled my own, to know that I
43:11
Speaker 1: was not alone and that our story was finally being
43:14
Speaker 1: told for the world to hear. I'm grateful the jury
43:18
Speaker 1: believe the victims and return to guilty verdict, but a
43:21
Speaker 1: question still tears up my soul. After all of this,
43:25
Speaker 1: how can this five star general, of this enormous sex
43:28
Speaker 1: trafficking conspiracy involving hundreds, if not thousands, of vulnerable girls
43:32
Speaker 1: and young women over three decades, continue to maintain her innocence.
43:37
Speaker 1: Reflecting on it, I know the answer to my questions.
43:41
Speaker 1: Maxwell is today the same woman I met almost twenty
43:44
Speaker 1: years ago, incapable of compassion and human common decency. Because
43:48
Speaker 1: of her wealth, her social status, and connection, she believes
43:52
Speaker 1: herself beyond her approach above the law. Sentencing her to
43:56
Speaker 1: the rest of her life in prison will not change that,
43:59
Speaker 1: but it will give the other survivors and die a
44:01
Speaker 1: slight sense of justice and help us to continue to
44:04
Speaker 1: work to recover from the sex trafficking hill she perpetrated.
44:09
Speaker 1: She will never hurt another young woman or child again
44:12
Speaker 1: in this lifetime, and for that I am sure to Glane.
44:16
Speaker 1: I say, you broke me in unfathomable ways, but you
44:20
Speaker 1: did not break my spirit, nor did you dampen my
44:23
Speaker 1: internal flame that now burns brighter than ever before. All right, folks,
44:28
Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up right there, and in the next episode,
44:31
Speaker 1: we're gonna pick up where we left off. All of
44:34
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
44:37
Speaker 1: in the description box.