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431: Can Human Design be Scientifically Verified? With Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner · Unshakeable with Human Design - A Human Design For Business Podcast

• 0:11
  Nicole Laino: Come here to become an unshakable human and build an unshakable business according to your human design.
• 0:17
  Nicole Laino: I'm your host, Nicole Laino.
• 0:22
  Nicole Laino: Hello and welcome to Unshakeable with Human Design, everyone.
• 0:25
  Nicole Laino: I'm your host, Nicole Laino, and I'm here with a very special guest.
• 0:29
  Nicole Laino: I am so excited.
• 0:30
  Nicole Laino: A friend of mine connected me with this particular guest and I immediately said yes to have her on because I think she brings such an incredible perspective that we have not had on the show here before.
• 0:43
  Nicole Laino: I'm excited for the conversation that we're going to have because she is One of the OGs of human design, Dr. Eleanor Haspel Portner.
• 0:52
  Nicole Laino: She's passionately synthesizes areas of esoteric wisdom and scientific discovery.
• 0:58
  Nicole Laino: She has published numerous bestselling books and helped thousands of individuals, couples and groups synthesize life experience in practical ways for living healthy, prosperous and creative lives.
• 1:10
  Nicole Laino: In her work with Noble Energy Map, she shows you how to manifest your highest potential to live a life you love.
• 1:17
  Nicole Laino: And each week, she and her husband, Dr. Marvin, host a free webinar on how to manifest your dream life.
• 1:24
  Nicole Laino: She was also a friend and colleague and business partner of RA Uruhu, who is obviously the founder transmitter of Human Design.
• 1:34
  Nicole Laino: So I'm very excited to have you on.
• 1:36
  Nicole Laino: Dr. Eleanor, thank you for being here.
• 1:38
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And thank you for inviting me.
• 1:40
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I'm glad to be here.
• 1:41
  Nicole Laino: So that was a very professional bio, but do you want to tell everybody just a little bit about you?
• 1:46
  Nicole Laino: And I know there's so much more to your background than that.
• 1:48
  Nicole Laino: Did you want to introduce yourself to the audience and tell them what we didn't capture in that bio?
• 1:54
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, from childhood I was always psychic and I knew that I needed to be a Jungian analyst and I needed to have a PhD in order to be credible.
• 2:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I went to the University of Chicago and without realizing why, I knew I needed to be integrative and.
• 2:17
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And my PhD from there was in what it was at that point called the Department of Human Development, and it focused on sociology, anthropology, psychology, and biology, the four worlds.
• 2:32
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Then after my PhD, I decided I needed to be helping people make their life better.
• 2:39
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It wasn't enough to be intellectual.
• 2:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: What really mattered to me was what tools could I give people to help them live a happy life.
• 2:51
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And part of it was that I had two young children and when they would have a tantrum or act out.
• 3:00
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Even with all my background, I didn't know what to do with them.
• 3:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I studied communication.
• 3:06
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You know, my background academically is filled with studying this and studying that.
• 3:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: A couple of days ago, my husband, I gave him an article to read that I had written on the 32nd path of intelligence in the tree of life and what it means because I teach it.
• 3:27
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And he looked at me and he said, you know, went all these different places.
• 3:32
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: We went to England to study with this person, and Taos to study with this person.
• 3:38
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And you studied this and this.
• 3:40
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it's all come together now.
• 3:43
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so when I saw the mandala of synthesis, as I call it, the human design wheel in the mountain astrologer in 1996, I knew what it was.
• 3:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I was already trained as a Jungian analyst.
• 3:59
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I understood about the tree of life and archetypes, and I was already an astrologer.
• 4:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So all of the fields that Ra Hu said were integrated into design were fields that I had already studied.
• 4:17
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And Ra and I and Marvin became friends.
• 4:22
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then I pulled away from him because he wasn't the most honest person in the world.
• 4:28
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then I was asked in 1999 to host him because he was destitute.
• 4:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: His son Jiva had been born preemie, and he had split with Zeno and Chatano, and he needed help getting back to Ibiza.
• 4:46
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So Marvin and I talked it over, and we agreed that we would help him, even though we knew his limitations.
• 4:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And within a week of coming to our home again, he said, would you validate design scientifically?
• 5:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I joke about it, but I said, no, I don't want to do this.
• 5:09
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: My husband said, yes, we'll do it.
• 5:12
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So we did it.
• 5:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So here we are so many years later.
• 5:19
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And my work expanded human design because of the science.
• 5:27
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then I realized that it was really integrating what I knew of the tree of life and the four worlds as a map of self actualization.
• 5:41
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so my work is the validation of a process.
• 5:46
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I often say my real work is the four worlds and how they integrate in consciousness, not charts.
• 5:57
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Charts are the validation of what we're looking at, but they're not the whole picture.
• 6:03
  Nicole Laino: Okay, let's talk about that.
• 6:05
  Nicole Laino: So first of all, can you talk to me a little bit about what validating something like human design looks like?
• 6:12
  Nicole Laino: Like, what is the process that you go through?
• 6:15
  Nicole Laino: Because you are a clinical psychologist, you're a social scientist.
• 6:19
  Nicole Laino: Like, you are trained in the world of science and statistics.
• 6:23
  Nicole Laino: So how are you taking something like what does that process look like of saying, like, I'm going to validate this?
• 6:28
  Nicole Laino: Is it just a matter of taking samples and observing people?
• 6:32
  Nicole Laino: Is it, how are you?
• 6:34
  Nicole Laino: What.
• 6:34
  Nicole Laino: What did it look like for you?
• 6:36
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So in 1999, we spent several weeks with RA recording, quote, everything the Voice told him, and then working with Eric Memert, who did the original new Sunware neutrino program, which has, by the way, the only other.
• 6:58
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I own the copyright to the body graph.
• 7:02
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And Eric's program uses the accurate body graph.
• 7:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: None of the other programs do because they didn't have the copyright.
• 7:11
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The body graph, as it was given to ra The Voice spent five days with him making sure the measurements of the body graph were accurate because they're sacred geometry.
• 7:24
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so the first order of business was to code everything.
• 7:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So the process was.
• 7:30
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I have a book on the science, which I've just released, and I talk about how I did it.
• 7:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So what I did was I took five samples of 5,000 each.
• 7:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I used people who'd had heart attacks versus people who didn't.
• 7:50
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: AIDS patients.
• 7:51
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So heart attacks, AIDS, general population, fibromyalgia and addiction.
• 7:58
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Five groups.
• 7:59
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I had matched samples.
• 8:01
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So when you're doing astrology research, and of course, Human design and Noble Energy Maps, which is my system, which expanded human design, works with the astrological data that gets coded and translated into a body graph.
• 8:21
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I had to match samples astrologically, which means they needed to be matched for latitude and longitude for people who the same ages.
• 8:34
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So if I had, let's say, 10 people who had heart attacks, I would need 10 people who didn't, all born on the same date in the same place, to differentiate them.
• 8:49
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so I had a group of 30,000 matched people, so 15,000.
• 8:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: 15,000.
• 8:57
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then Eric coded everything so everything had a numerical binary on, off, and then I put them into the statistical well.
• 9:10
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I exported from neutrinos to Jigsaw, which is an astrology research program, and coded everything in Jigsaw and then ran the data in the Statistical Package for the Social Sciences using multivariate analysis of variance, factor analyses, chi squares, Z tests, any rotational factor analysis, every possible way I could run the data.
• 9:40
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I looked at just Typold.
• 9:43
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I am pleased to say that instead of four types, which RA was teaching, five types held as independent of each other.
• 9:54
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So we have five types.
• 9:55
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Manifesting generator, manifestor, projector, reflector, those held in the body graph.
• 10:05
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Then I checked circuitry, I checked centers, I checked channels and gates.
• 10:15
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Did they hold Together, did they group together?
• 10:19
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And certain things held.
• 10:21
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: At that point, I already had.
• 10:24
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Ra gave me what he called the dream design.
• 10:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It wasn't a dream.
• 10:30
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It is a dream design.
• 10:32
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But he didn't have the sleep design of a mammal, so I needed that calculation.
• 10:39
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I also got the emotional angelic matrix.
• 10:45
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: When I was teaching early on, I said to Ra, so, Ra, there's another matrix that gives us insight, that gives us creative intelligence, that gives us downloadable information.
• 11:03
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: He said, oh, yeah.
• 11:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The voice told me there was.
• 11:06
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I said, oh, I got it.
• 11:08
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I taught the first class on the Dreamwave in November of 1999.
• 11:15
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Rod didn't know what it was.
• 11:17
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then as were walking to my car, he said to me, okay, now I can do the keynotes, because I know what it is now.
• 11:24
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So we worked together on the dream.
• 11:26
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: He didn't know anything about sleep architecture.
• 11:30
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so I don't want to go into too much detail.
• 11:33
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: A lot of it's in my books.
• 11:35
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But as I ran the data, there were a lot of things in human design that were inaccurate.
• 11:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Like, profile is an artifact of the math.
• 11:45
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It shows that the body graph itself has structure, but it's a mathematical structure because there were no differentials in any of the populations.
• 11:59
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So if you have a variable that is stable across every population, you know, it might be a variable, but it doesn't differentiate person X from person Y.
• 12:13
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You follow?
• 12:15
  Nicole Laino: Yeah, I do.
• 12:16
  Nicole Laino: So talk to me a little bit about that.
• 12:18
  Nicole Laino: So when in your work, do you just remove profile as a.
• 12:23
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: No, I use the keywords.
• 12:26
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Okay.
• 12:26
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Because the keywords show process.
• 12:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So in my work, what happened was I immediately knew that there was a difference in somebody.
• 12:38
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I was sitting with two ladies in my yard, and Ra was in my living room.
• 12:43
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And one of them was a generator who became a reflector when she slept and dreamed.
• 12:50
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The other one was a generator, was a reflector who became.
• 12:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Or a projector who became a generator when she slept.
• 13:00
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so I looked at the one who.
• 13:02
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Who became a generator when she slept.
• 13:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I said, so you go to sleep at night, and you're not sure what you want to do, and you wake up in the morning and you go, oh, now I know.
• 13:12
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And she said, how did you know?
• 13:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I looked at the other one, and I said, and you go to sleep thinking, you know, and you wake up thinking, what was I thinking?
• 13:21
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And she said, how did you know?
• 13:24
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I went in and I said, tara, Rada, if type changes when we sleep, it's important.
• 13:34
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I kept saying to Rob because in human design, I'm a manifester.
• 13:38
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I kept saying to him, I'm not a manifester.
• 13:41
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I wait and I wait till I know, because I know where is that?
• 13:48
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so when I looked at my sleep chart, not as a dream rave, but as a transit chart, I become a generator at night.
• 14:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I began working with that.
• 14:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I was trained already as an astrologer pretty extensively.
• 14:12
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So what I use is eight charts that trace from three months before birth, a week before birth, two days before birth, an hour and a half before birth, an hour and a half after birth, two days after birth, prenatal and postnatal, astrologers do.
• 14:34
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it shows the developmental critical periods in early baby development.
• 14:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: When a baby is three months old and reaches for an object then considered no longer a neonate, they're considered a baby and they reach for objects and they have choice.
• 14:55
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: At that point, 99% of the population are manifesting generators.
• 15:02
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So what I use instead of profile is the keywords for the incarnation cross that goes along with that chart.
• 15:16
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And you see process, you see how the transiting planets impact a baby's consciousness, predisposing them to sensitive ways of being.
• 15:35
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so I encourage my students to use the keywords like the incarnation cross of the Sphinx, self, knowledge or contagion or the vessel of Love.
• 15:52
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: In fact, I was just doing an illustration showing that we go from the vessel of Love from the one, the first hexagram, and then we move from the vessel of Love to the quadrants that rod divided the wheel into, and you have the cross of the Sphinx.
• 16:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So we're always moving around the wheel toward increasing consciousness.
• 16:21
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And when you look at the development over a three month period, you can begin to see that.
• 16:28
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So going back to the statistics, Ra said people who had open heart centers were more prone to heart attacks than people who had a define did not hold up.
• 16:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Not true.
• 16:44
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: What was most fascinating to me recently was I had done a factor analysis which looks at the different centers to see which centers have common threads within them that would show that they lump together as helpful in defining something about somebody.
• 17:09
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The sacral, the root and the splenic center hold together.
• 17:15
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The heart and the solar plexus hold together.
• 17:21
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The ajna and the crown hold together.
• 17:26
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And the sacral to the self, to the throat hole together.
• 17:31
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Four factors, four worlds in the tree of life.
• 17:36
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And they clump together in terms of the paths of intelligence on the tree of Life, which I teach.
• 17:47
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So the key in design is that if you look at the four worlds and the different matrices for the worlds.
• 17:57
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You begin to see that only the mental waking world and the emotional, the physical, biological world, have a solar plexus.
• 18:09
  Nicole Laino: So let's take a moment to just go through, first of all, the four worlds and what that is.
• 18:15
  Nicole Laino: Because I know that the people listening probably aren't familiar with this.
• 18:20
  Nicole Laino: And if you could connect them to the four worlds that you're seeing, it come through the centers, I think that provides a grounding point for people that they can start to visualize at least what this is.
• 18:32
  Nicole Laino: Because is it the spiritual world is connected.
• 18:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: There is a mental waking world.
• 18:39
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's the world we're sitting in now.
• 18:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: We're in our head, we're using language, we're dressed according to our culture.
• 18:47
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It's the world we're socialized into.
• 18:50
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It's not the world of who we are.
• 18:53
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It's the world of reality.
• 18:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And the human design body map focuses primarily on the mental waking world.
• 19:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The spiritual archetypal world is the world we move into, that is our spirit.
• 19:12
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It's when we sleep and dream, we become one with the cosmos.
• 19:18
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: We lose our consciousness, we lose our cortex.
• 19:22
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But in dreaming, in REM sleep, which eye motions back and forth, we're dreaming.
• 19:30
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: There is carryover between one world and the mental waking world.
• 19:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's why people don't remember their dreams well, because they only have fragments that pass through.
• 19:45
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The physical biological world is the world of our body.
• 19:50
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it mostly functions unconsciously.
• 19:54
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And emotional reactions occur in the physical biological world.
• 20:01
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's why we have a lie detector test.
• 20:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It measures the galvanic skin response.
• 20:08
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It's measuring physical biological activation of emotion before we're even conscious of it.
• 20:17
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So that's very important because in the tree of life, the 27th path of intelligence that goes between the solar plexus and the splenic center, the intuitive in human design, the splenic center, where we have intuition and immune system and a sense about other people and what's good for us.
• 20:43
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: If we are emotionally reactive, we're not intuitively tuned in the same way.
• 20:52
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so the tree of life is telling us that emotional reactivity must be turned into compassion and love in order to be higher consciousness.
• 21:03
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so that's the emotional angelic world that takes out the solar plexus and is very intuitive and is pushing us to the creative intelligence of the Ajna and the Crown.
• 21:23
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So we are here to transform emotionally into higher consciousness beings.
• 21:31
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so we have the mental waking world, the spiritual archetypal.
• 21:36
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: World, the physical biological world and the emotional angelic world, the world of transformation.
• 21:47
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And those four worlds integrate at three months of age.
• 21:52
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And that is who we live.
• 21:55
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's who we are.
• 21:57
  Nicole Laino: So can I ask you then, so when you're, if you're reading somebody, if somebody comes to you to work with you using the system that you use, which you still do, incorporate some of human design into your work, you just do it differently, right?
• 22:10
  Nicole Laino: You've kind of made your own process with this.
• 22:14
  Nicole Laino: What are you working with?
• 22:15
  Nicole Laino: Are you working with a 3 month date?
• 22:17
  Nicole Laino: Are you like, okay, you were born on.
• 22:19
  Nicole Laino: I'm born on September 8th.
• 22:20
  Nicole Laino: So are you saying that I'm actually December 8th?
• 22:25
  Nicole Laino: Is that the chart that you're running for?
• 22:28
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's when you became whole.
• 22:31
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's when you began to have volition.
• 22:35
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You began to show preferences.
• 22:38
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Reaching for an object, smiling at some people and avoiding other people.
• 22:44
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: The gastrointestinal system at that point is developed.
• 22:49
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So what I read when I'm reading eight charts.
• 22:53
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I'm not reading one chart.
• 22:55
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I'm reading where things turn on and off.
• 22:59
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So for example, in my design, I kept saying to Ra, but Ra, I don't take action.
• 23:05
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Even though I'm a manifester.
• 23:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I wait.
• 23:09
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Why do I wait?
• 23:10
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, I wait because I get the 515 in my lunar chart.
• 23:15
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And so I wait until I know because I know.
• 23:20
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then I take action.
• 23:22
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And when I know because I know, everything falls into place.
• 23:26
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Because it's coming from a connected place in me, not an intellectual place in me.
• 23:33
  Nicole Laino: Yeah, I think, and this is something that I run into with a lot of clients.
• 23:37
  Nicole Laino: I was going to say you've done an awful lot that it seems like you are a very self actualized person.
• 23:42
  Nicole Laino: It just might not happen instantly.
• 23:43
  Nicole Laino: Like just with all that you've done and all that you've studied and all that you've created.
• 23:48
  Nicole Laino: Do you not resonate with being a manifester at all?
• 23:52
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Not at all.
• 23:53
  Nicole Laino: Really.
• 23:53
  Nicole Laino: See, I would look at you and I'd be like, oh, I see that because it seems like you're unstoppable in the direction that you're going in.
• 23:59
  Nicole Laino: But I guess it's.
• 24:00
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But it's always coming from spirit.
• 24:02
  Nicole Laino: Okay.
• 24:03
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It's never coming from something I should do because it's the thing that people do.
• 24:10
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I do what I do because it resonates with me spiritually.
• 24:16
  Nicole Laino: This is so interesting because it's the interpretations of these things I always see.
• 24:21
  Nicole Laino: Because I guess we look at the other types, and we look at the other, you know, other people, and I think there's always some romanticizing about the other types that we feel like it would be easier, you know, if I was only.
• 24:31
  Nicole Laino: That.
• 24:31
  Nicole Laino: That would.
• 24:31
  Nicole Laino: My life would be perfect.
• 24:33
  Nicole Laino: But I. I always think of manifestors as having this sort of direct channel to, like, the divine.
• 24:39
  Nicole Laino: Like, they get struck by lightning with something where it feels like something that's not of this world moves them, that they are sort of.
• 24:49
  Nicole Laino: I don't like the word possessed because there's such a negative connotation to it.
• 24:52
  Nicole Laino: But that.
• 24:53
  Nicole Laino: But that spirit moves them.
• 24:54
  Nicole Laino: And so I guess it's like that was always the way that when I've witnessed Clarity clients and when I've, you know, talked with a lot of manifestors, I feel like they are moved by that.
• 25:07
  Nicole Laino: And so I guess it's just that the interpretations of things and the way that we interact with this knowledge, that.
• 25:13
  Nicole Laino: That would actually be my interpretation of a manifesto.
• 25:17
  Nicole Laino: But I understand that.
• 25:18
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, see, I.
• 25:19
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Now, with design, I was invisible.
• 25:22
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I mean, I've been teaching and working with design since 1999, since actually 1996.
• 25:30
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And nothing I did became public.
• 25:34
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I mean, it was out there.
• 25:35
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I had websites, et cetera.
• 25:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then In October of 22, the voice said to me, you know what you have?
• 25:44
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You know what it is?
• 25:46
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Your layout is the figure eights.
• 25:48
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Because I'm a Tai chi gong teacher, and that's on my book, one of my books, the figure 8.
• 25:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And the voice said, you know what you have?
• 25:59
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You know what it is?
• 26:00
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Go public.
• 26:01
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I went, okay.
• 26:03
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I waited.
• 26:05
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then a week later, it said, go public.
• 26:09
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I went public, and I just shared with my Tai chi group.
• 26:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, I do this work, and blah, blah, blah.
• 26:18
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: 15 people wanted readings, and it just like, oh, my God.
• 26:23
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It was the voice speaking to me and saying, now is the time to put it out there.
• 26:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And I waited that whole time, you know, doing my little books.
• 26:34
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And mostly, I mean, I was president of the Hypnosis Society.
• 26:39
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I was writing books on astrology and reiki.
• 26:42
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And doing, you know, my life and doing design never occurred to me as being my primary thing, because it wasn't.
• 26:53
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But my real work is for children, and it's for parents of children to know that they need to tune into the spirit of their child.
• 27:03
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Not the mind, not the body, the spirit.
• 27:08
  Nicole Laino: And how do they do that?
• 27:09
  Nicole Laino: How do you tune into the spirit of your child?
• 27:12
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: A lot of children are so energy sensitive, and you can see in the Eight charts where people pick up energy, where they're an empath, where they're not an empath, where they.
• 27:27
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: For example, if I see somebody who has the 3410, I know they march to their own trump.
• 27:36
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You're not going to input if they don't want it input.
• 27:41
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That's important for parents to know, no matter which level.
• 27:45
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It may not be the mental world.
• 27:48
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: It may be that they're spiritually aligned, or it may be that they're physically aligned.
• 27:55
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So how to talk to a child will depend on how they come together in their different worlds.
• 28:04
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Mm.
• 28:06
  Nicole Laino: So what I encounter a lot with people, like, even with the chart as it exists, as, you know, everybody listening to the show knows it, they still find it confusing.
• 28:15
  Nicole Laino: So how do they take something when you say eight charts and, you know, bringing together the four worlds and the four matrixes, how does somebody who is interested in this not be overwhelmed by it?
• 28:29
  Nicole Laino: How does somebody.
• 28:29
  Nicole Laino: Because even I'm like, what would I be looking for in there?
• 28:33
  Nicole Laino: Am I comparing the charts and seeing what changes and running them at those points?
• 28:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: When I teach a group of people the tree of life and human design, I teach them how the paths of intelligence in the tree of life evolve consciousness.
• 28:52
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it's a map of self actualization.
• 28:55
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So if you understand how the worlds come together, you can begin to see where channels connect.
• 29:04
  Nicole Laino: Can you give me an example that might help illustrate the point?
• 29:09
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Someone might have the five in the mental world, and they might have the 15 in the spiritual world.
• 29:18
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So they have the whole channel in the integration of who they are.
• 29:23
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But if you're just reading the mental world, you may not see that.
• 29:27
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You may miss that.
• 29:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: When they know they can take action.
• 29:32
  Nicole Laino: Okay.
• 29:33
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Or if you see somebody who is, like myself, a manifester in the mental world, and then I become very strongly defined as a generator through the 52.
• 29:49
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: 9.
• 29:50
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: That gives me a very strong focus and a sense of inner peace.
• 29:58
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I always wait until I know.
• 30:02
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And if I was advising a parent whose child had a configuration where it changes over time, I would say to them, encourage your child to wait a week before making a decision.
• 30:16
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Because spiritually, they get defined spiritually after a week, not a immediately.
• 30:24
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So the timing of how somebody functions depends on the configuration during that first three months of life.
• 30:33
  Nicole Laino: If I were to pull up my sleep chart right now, would it be the sleep chart that I can pull up, or is your chart that you're looking at run at different times and you're looking at it?
• 30:44
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I don't know what program you use?
• 30:47
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I use, my son designed me a program so I use the astrology as well as the hexagrams because I think that if you don't use the astrology you lose so much information about the nuance of the gate and the channel.
• 31:08
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So if you were to pull up your dream design, you'd probably get a 15 gate matrix turned on its side.
• 31:16
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And the way I do it is I use the 64 gate matrix because I want to see the transits impacting that developmental time frame for a baby, even though it may not be in that dream world.
• 31:36
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then a week after birth you get the postnatal lunar chart which shows very often the timing of an aligned decision for a person.
• 31:51
  Nicole Laino: So this is something that our listeners, they can't really pull this for themselves.
• 31:55
  Nicole Laino: They couldn't really look at this.
• 31:57
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Or they could go to Noble energy maps website noblenergymaps.com and there is a free report, very preliminary, that will print out all their charts and then there's a premium report that prints out the five primary channels that get activated.
• 32:19
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And on my website there's a four world assessment that goes over the worlds and is a questionnaire using clean language questions to assess how somebody sees themselves in all four worlds.
• 32:35
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Because the real work is recognizing that we're multi consciousness beings, we're not one note.
• 32:43
  Nicole Laino: No, that's very true.
• 32:44
  Nicole Laino: And I think that's because my take on human design and this is something that I get into with my clients and the people who join programs and other, you know, offers with me where I don't treat this as dogmatic because I think that there's, I can't prove it.
• 33:00
  Nicole Laino: You know, there are things like, you know, Ross said a lot of stuff like you said, you know, people with an open heart center are more likely to have heart attacks.
• 33:06
  Nicole Laino: I have people ask me about that stuff all the time.
• 33:08
  Nicole Laino: Is it true that if Sixes don't come off the roof when they're at their, after their chiron that they get terribly sick?
• 33:14
  Nicole Laino: And I'm like, I have no data.
• 33:16
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: On that and that would not be true.
• 33:19
  Nicole Laino: Yeah, I'm like, my instinct says no, but I can't prove it either way.
• 33:24
  Nicole Laino: What I will say I can prove it.
• 33:27
  Nicole Laino: Okay, you can prove it.
• 33:28
  Nicole Laino: And I think that's valid.
• 33:29
  Nicole Laino: And what I do say to them is that I'm like, I do have Sixes come to me around their chiron return where they feel like they must share something or something must change or there is a shift in their life that they cannot ignore.
• 33:43
  Nicole Laino: That I will say that I see almost across the board with people is that they feel like they must do something, and that something.
• 33:52
  Nicole Laino: Something is very different for each person.
• 33:54
  Nicole Laino: It's individual.
• 33:55
  Nicole Laino: I'm like, but get sick.
• 33:56
  Nicole Laino: I have absolutely no proof, data, or supporting evidence of that.
• 34:00
  Nicole Laino: So I don't say any of those things.
• 34:02
  Nicole Laino: And I'm very careful about what I will.
• 34:04
  Nicole Laino: People talking about, you know, how they can link certain aspects of design to autism and being on the spectrum.
• 34:11
  Nicole Laino: And I'm like, I have absolutely no data on that.
• 34:14
  Nicole Laino: In fact, I've looked people up who have autistic kids, and there's always something different I've never seen.
• 34:21
  Nicole Laino: Like, oh, there's a direct correlation.
• 34:23
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, there's Ry said, people, when they want to conceive, if they have the 59.
• 34:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Six, they're more likely to conceive.
• 34:31
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Not true.
• 34:32
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I tested it.
• 34:33
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Not true.
• 34:34
  Nicole Laino: I have the 59.
• 34:35
  Nicole Laino: 6.
• 34:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: You know, there's so much that Ra said, and in the books that I wrote with Ra, what I did was I preserved all of the source material, and then I did a commentary on what held and what did not hold.
• 34:51
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Because so much of it.
• 34:53
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I mean, the body map as an integrated synthesis is brilliant, but the way R.A. taught it was dumbed down to the fourth grade level.
• 35:06
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: His words.
• 35:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And he was a great storyteller.
• 35:10
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: He was.
• 35:11
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Ra was in our home for weeks at a time.
• 35:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: We were in his home for weeks at a time because were friends.
• 35:19
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: When he was moving back to Ibiza, he showed up at our doorstep with Loci and said, we lost Loci's visa.
• 35:29
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I need to stay with you until we can go downtown and get it fixed.
• 35:33
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So he arrived unannounced.
• 35:35
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I mean, that's how close were.
• 35:38
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But ultimately, he wasn't interested in the science.
• 35:43
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: In truth, he was interested in a legacy for his family, which I understand completely.
• 35:51
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And we owe him a great debt of gratitude for what he did give us.
• 35:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it's time now to look at the truth and look at the tree of Life, because we're living at a very.
• 36:07
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I mean, the aspect astrologically between Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus, that has not happened since 306 BC is shifting the consciousness of the world.
• 36:21
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And we're living in biblical times.
• 36:25
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So being able to navigate that consciousness is requiring that all of us master emotional reactivity.
• 36:38
  Nicole Laino: Yes.
• 36:39
  Nicole Laino: And I think that's kind of the headline, right?
• 36:41
  Nicole Laino: Is that, you know, I've been saying to people quite a bit lately, you know, with social media, I don't know if you're on social media much.
• 36:49
  Nicole Laino: I try not to be on it all too often anymore because it does feel like.
• 36:54
  Nicole Laino: Because.
• 36:55
  Nicole Laino: Cause what we're talking about, managing emotional reactivity, is about actually feeling the feelings that you have so that you are not stuffing them down and then constantly being triggered where you're a very reactive person.
• 37:08
  Nicole Laino: Is that.
• 37:08
  Nicole Laino: Are we in agreement there with that?
• 37:11
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, it's being in touch with what you feel.
• 37:14
  Nicole Laino: Right.
• 37:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: But then transforming it to compassion and love intuitively.
• 37:19
  Nicole Laino: And what I see on social media is a bunch of unfelt feelings, a bunch of closeted feelings, so to speak, and them being weaponized by people intentionally posting triggering things and telling people who to blame for that emotion and where they should put it, rather than sitting and holding it themselves, feeling it so that they can transcend and transmute it into love, compassion, and understanding and feeling and opening up.
• 37:51
  Nicole Laino: They contract and throw it out at somebody else.
• 37:54
  Nicole Laino: And.
• 37:54
  Nicole Laino: And I feel like that's the terrible thing that social media has given us is this high.
• 38:00
  Nicole Laino: It's rewarding that reactive, that reactivity, that triggering and giving you new places to put it.
• 38:08
  Nicole Laino: And I think it's terribly destructive.
• 38:11
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, the other aspect of it is that people think it's impersonal and it's not.
• 38:18
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And, you know, something on social media can trigger someone who's vulnerable in a way that can really be harmful to them and lead them astray.
• 38:31
  Nicole Laino: It's a very influenced world that we're living in, and that's the value that I see in human design.
• 38:36
  Nicole Laino: I have never purported that I could prove any of this.
• 38:39
  Nicole Laino: I have never said that, you know, oh, this is.
• 38:42
  Nicole Laino: You know, I'm happy that you've done the work, and I'm excited to read your books and learn more about the studies that you've done and the work that you've put out.
• 38:49
  Nicole Laino: But for me, it's a tool for introspection, so that we can know ourselves, trust ourselves, so we're not looking to the outside world for all of the answers, and that we can rise in our level of consciousness and expand our compassion for each other.
• 39:06
  Nicole Laino: My husband, when I first found design, he said to me, which I always joke is sort of a backhanded compliment, he said, he's like, human design has softened you.
• 39:15
  Nicole Laino: And I think what.
• 39:16
  Nicole Laino: What he meant there, and I was like, thanks.
• 39:18
  Nicole Laino: I think what he meant was I just became far less judgmental of other people.
• 39:24
  Nicole Laino: And I just.
• 39:24
  Nicole Laino: I don't think I was a terrible person, but I started to look at people with greater compassion because I had an appreciation for how they were different rather than thinking that everybody should be like me or that everybody should feel like me, that it was this study of how people could be and, oh, they could be like that.
• 39:43
  Nicole Laino: And I understand this, and I understand why this person feels different when I'm near them and where those things can come from.
• 39:51
  Nicole Laino: And that's, I think, whatever people believe, because it is a belief system.
• 39:57
  Nicole Laino: I think you do have to believe in a lot of this.
• 39:59
  Nicole Laino: But like all belief systems, they can't be dogmatic.
• 40:02
  Nicole Laino: It can't be something that you are just following fundamentalistly to the letter, because that's control, which is supposed to be the opposite of what this is.
• 40:11
  Nicole Laino: It should be a system to help you find your own emotional and personal freedom and to love other people for their differences as well.
• 40:20
  Nicole Laino: And through our compassion, we can expand others because they don't feel judged.
• 40:26
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well said.
• 40:27
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Very well said.
• 40:28
  Nicole Laino: Where can everybody stay in touch with you?
• 40:30
  Nicole Laino: Where can they learn more about.
• 40:31
  Nicole Laino: I know you mentioned your website.
• 40:32
  Nicole Laino: Please tell us again.
• 40:34
  Nicole Laino: And then where can they.
• 40:35
  Nicole Laino: All of your books are on Amazon.
• 40:37
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: All of my books are on Amazon and Ingram.
• 40:40
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So they're in Barnes and Noble on Apple Books.
• 40:44
  Nicole Laino: Which book would you tell everybody to start with?
• 40:46
  Nicole Laino: Which is the book that you're like?
• 40:47
  Nicole Laino: This is the one you should buy first because you have so many.
• 40:50
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, the Living from Soul.
• 40:54
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Talks about the four worlds.
• 40:56
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it's like a workbook.
• 40:58
  Nicole Laino: Okay.
• 40:58
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And it doesn't talk about design.
• 41:01
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I.
• 41:01
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Until the last chapter.
• 41:02
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I think the Science of Human Design would be good reading for anyone who's a human design person.
• 41:10
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And then.
• 41:11
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Well, I mean, go on Amazon.
• 41:14
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I have all kinds of books there.
• 41:17
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: There's the ones I wrote with RA Human Design and Health Triple Design Matrix.
• 41:22
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: There's a Cosmic guidance one where I took the four worlds and did an evergreen statement in each world for every day of the year.
• 41:32
  Nicole Laino: Oh, amazing.
• 41:33
  Nicole Laino: I actually, I saw you speaking with somebody else about that one.
• 41:37
  Nicole Laino: So we will link all of this up in the show notes.
• 41:40
  Nicole Laino: But where can they stay in touch with you and learn more besides the books?
• 41:44
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Noble Energy Wellness is my website and My email is EHP for my initials.
• 41:52
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And@noblesciences.com Noble, my first cat, who died when he was 22, is my logo.
• 42:01
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: And the calculations I got for my eight charts came from twin kittens.
• 42:07
  Nicole Laino: Oh, amazing.
• 42:09
  Nicole Laino: I love that.
• 42:10
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: So I owe Noble and the cats a lot of my life.
• 42:16
  Nicole Laino: Absolutely.
• 42:17
  Nicole Laino: Thank you for sharing that story with us and thank you for being here and sharing your wisdom and your experience.
• 42:23
  Nicole Laino: I really appreciate you coming on the show today.
• 42:25
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: Thank you so much Nicole.
• 42:27
  Dr. Eleanor Haspel-Portner: I appreciate you having me and being so open.
• 42:29
  Nicole Laino: Thank you and thank you for making it all the way to the end of this episode with us.
• 42:33
  Nicole Laino: We appreciate you and remember in order to have an unshakable business you must first become an unshakable human.
• 42:39
  Nicole Laino: So thanks for letting us help you become unshakable with human design.
• 42:42
  Nicole Laino: We will see you next time.
• 42:43
  Nicole Laino: If you love this episode and you're a fan of the show, please show us the love on itunes, Spotify or wherever you're listening to the show and leave us a review.
• 42:50
  Nicole Laino: And if you'd like to connect with other entrepreneurs on their human design journey, join our free Facebook community Human Design for Entrepreneurs.
• 42:57
  Nicole Laino: Go to nicolelaino Me podcastlinks to join the group.
• 43:02
  Nicole Laino: Book a human design reading with me or access our free human design resources.
• 43:06
  Nicole Laino: We'll see you there.