Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Astrophysics, distant starlight, and Genesis

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Astrophysics, distant starlight, and Genesis · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello, everyone, and welcome to the Tenpenny Files.
• 0:30
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:31
  Sherry Tenpenny.
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• 1:53
  Today's conversation is with author, researcher, and astrophysicist, Dr.
• 1:58
  Jason Lyle, about his book, Taking Back Astronomy, The Heavens Decare Declare Creation, a breathtaking look at the universe that is comprehensive guide to the heavens.
• 2:09
  And it is a beautiful book.
• 2:12
  The text is just amazing.
• 2:14
  It so supports the biblical creation theory from the Bible.
• 2:17
  And the pictures that are in there from the Hubble telescope and other places are just breathtaking.
• 2:23
  You really should pick up a copy of this book.
• 2:25
  It's just amazing.
• 2:27
  Dr.
• 2:27
  Jason, thank you so much for joining us here today at the Tenpenny Files.
• 2:31
  It's so excited to hear to talk to a real rocket scientist and a buckeye from Ohio.
• 2:37
  That's right.
• 2:37
  I am from Ohio.
• 2:38
  That's right.
• 2:39
  Good to see you.
• 2:40
  Thank you for having me back on.
• 2:41
  Appreciate it.
• 2:42
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  Tell the audience what a day in the life of an astrophysicist is like.
• 2:47
  Well, my life's a little unusual as an astrophysicist.
• 2:51
  Um, I I did the standard research thing, getting my PhD, and I would, you know, go into work and sit down on the computer and think about stuff and write programs to analyze data.
• 3:00
  I still do a little bit of that, but um as the president and founder of the Biblical Science Institute, what I mainly do now is use information that other people have discovered, occasionally something that I've discovered, and show how that reveals biblical creation, because the narrative is that uh, you know, there's no God, the universe just popped into existence in a big bang 13 billion years ago.
• 3:21
  That's what we all hear.
• 3:22
  Uh, I find that the science does not support that.
• 3:25
  I find the science confirms the biblical account of creation that God really did create the way he says he did in six days.
• 3:31
  So my my day varies.
• 3:33
  It really does.
• 3:34
  Some sometimes I'm writing articles, sometimes I'm research something, sometimes I'm going out and speaking at either a university or a church.
• 3:41
  So it really depends.
• 3:42
  It's a it's kind of an exciting life.
• 3:43
  It's never boring.
• 3:44
  Let's put it that way.
• 3:45
  Great.
• 3:46
  Well, I know you have a strong biblical background and you've used your education to support the biblical theory of creation.
• 3:55
  Is that common amongst astrophysicists?
• 3:57
  Are you kind of unique in that perspective?
• 4:00
  It's very uncommon.
• 4:01
  Uh, there are a few of us.
• 4:02
  There's there's my friend Danny Faulkner, there's Ron Samek.
• 4:05
  There are a few of us that have a PhD in physics or astronomy or astrophysics that are biblical creationists, but we are very few.
• 4:13
  Most most astronomers have bought into some version of the big bang, uh, and therefore they believe in the billions of years.
• 4:19
  And so now not all that doesn't mean all of them are atheists.
• 4:22
  In fact, I find most astronomers do believe in God or a god, but they don't take the Bible as the literal word of God, whereas I do.
• 4:30
  And so that distinguishes me from most of my colleagues.
• 4:33
  I have great respect for my colleagues.
• 4:35
  We just disagree on origins, basically.
• 4:38
  You know, in this book, you know, I know you've written several, but in this particular book, taking back astronomy, the first chapter describes the massive distance between stars and galaxies, the closest being 25 trillion miles away.
• 4:53
  Is Elon Musk simply dreaming about going to Mars and the other planets and colonizing them?
• 4:59
  Uh well, Mars is in our solar system, so that's a lot closer.
• 5:03
  And it is uh something like at minimum, it's like 20 million miles away.
• 5:08
  So that's that's still pretty amazing.
• 5:10
  I mean, the moon, we're going back to the moon.
• 5:12
  The moon is 240,000 miles away.
• 5:15
  And we're that's a few days by spacecraft at about as fast as we can get them these days.
• 5:20
  Um, Mars is going to take, it'll take over a year to get to Mars, a year and a half minimum.
• 5:25
  So it's it's theoretically possible.
• 5:29
  Mars does not have the protective magnetic field that the earth has.
• 5:32
  Earth is designed for life, Mars is not.
• 5:34
  So the astronauts would have to bring a little bit of uh Earth with them, a little air and water and food and so from the Earth.
• 5:40
  And even then, because Mars doesn't have that protective magnetic field that that blocks radiation here on Earth, uh, the maximum time a person could spend on Mars would be about two years, and then they would get their lifetime limit of radiation.
• 5:54
  You don't want to get more than that because radiation can cause cancer and things like that.
• 5:58
  So it's not good for you.
• 5:59
  But um I will Elon ever do that or somebody else.
• 6:03
  I don't know.
• 6:03
  I mean, it'd be fun to see.
• 6:04
  It'd be fun to see.
• 6:06
  Um, I'm excited about the Artemis mission about people going back to the moon.
• 6:10
  And that's something that I'm looking forward to.
• 6:11
  I'm because I I just missed the last one, the uh the one in 69.
• 6:16
  I'm a little bit too young to have seen that one.
• 6:18
  So I was never alive when people were on the moon.
• 6:20
  And I think that'd be amazing to see to look up at the moon and knowing that there are people walking on it.
• 6:25
  Uh, I'm looking forward to that.
• 6:26
  Will we get to Mars?
• 6:27
  I don't know.
• 6:27
  Will we get to other stars?
• 6:29
  No way.
• 6:30
  No way, because as you pointed out, the next nearest star, 25 trillion miles away.
• 6:34
  That's that's the Alpha Centauri system.
• 6:37
  Uh so that's just in not feasible at all.
• 6:40
  So what you see on Star Trek, it's very entertaining, but it's not, it's not very realistic.
• 6:45
  You know, you say, and you talk go into detail in this in your book about, you know, with this the closest uh star system being 25 trillion miles away, and that it takes billions of years for the light to travel from the star system to where we can see it, even with our telescopes, let alone with our naked eye, and then that's one of the arguments against the creationist theory.
• 7:08
  Um explain that and defend defend the biblical perspective on that.
• 7:13
  Actually, for nearby stars, it's not an issue because the the, you know, for 25 trillion miles using the standard sort of parameters that we use, light takes a few years to get from that star to about 4.3 years for light to get from the nearest star besides the sun to the earth.
• 7:30
  And in all the stars that you see in the night sky that you can see naked eye, those are all within a few, you know, make those are all pretty much within 6,000 light years.
• 7:39
  The question is, what about distant galaxies that we see?
• 7:41
  Galaxies that are so far away that theoretically their light should take millions or in some cases, yes, billions of years.
• 7:48
  Um that's used a lot of times by laymen because it sounds like a good argument, but I have to tell you, a physicist who is very knowledgeable of the physics of Einstein, whether he's a creationist or an evolutionist would not use that argument for an old universe because it turns out one of the things that Einstein discovered is that uh the speed of light in any one direction is not so much a property of nature, but it's simply a human choice in how we decide to define what now means.
• 8:14
  And that's very counterintuitive.
• 8:16
  I've written some articles on this.
• 8:17
  I've written some technical articles and then some layman articles that show that even today, you can get the light from those distant galaxies to Earth immediately.
• 8:26
  It doesn't take any time at all on a one-way trip due to the way that time is defined.
• 8:31
  It turns out there's more than one way to define what now means in space.
• 8:36
  And I've made an argument that the Bible uses the more ancient convention, which is called a visual synchrony convention.
• 8:42
  I call it an anisotropic synchrony convention.
• 8:44
  But basically, in the ancient world, people defined now by when you saw the light come.
• 8:49
  And that's very natural, right?
• 8:51
  I mean, if you if you see a deer across, you know, across the road on the other side of the hill, you don't say, wow, I wonder how many millions of years ago that deer was really there.
• 8:59
  It's just very intuitive to say what I see happening now is happening now.
• 9:03
  And I believe the Bible uses that language.
• 9:05
  And the amazing thing is that's perfectly consistent with the physics of Einstein.
• 9:09
  And if people would like to learn more about this, it's called the conventionality of distant simultaneity, or sometimes shortened to the conventionality thesis.
• 9:18
  There's even a Wikipedia article on it that surprisingly is pretty accurate.
• 9:22
  So uh can't always trust Wikipedia, but that one happens to be pretty good.
• 9:26
  And I've written some articles on the website that go into a little more detail on how that works.
• 9:30
  And so again, our our website, if you don't mind a little shameless promotion, it's the biblical, it's biblical science institute.com.
• 9:37
  So biblical science institute.com and go and search for distant starlight.
• 9:41
  And I go through other details too, other theories that creationists have proposed.
• 9:45
  But the bottom line is it's not a problem to get distant starlight from those distant galaxies to the earth within the biblical time frame of a few thousand years.
• 9:54
  And a physicist who is knowledgeable of the physics of Einstein would know that.
• 9:59
  You know.
• 10:00
  I've often I've I I have always loved astronomy.
• 10:03
  I remember when I was a kid, you know, just laying on my bedroom on my bedroom floor looking up at the you know the Adromanist, you know, this the Orion galaxy, and I had an uncle who was kind of an amateur stargazer, and when they would come to visit, we'd stand out because we live pretty far out in the country, so there wasn't a lot of ground light, we'd stand out and looked at different stars.
• 10:24
  And I've always been just so fascinated by all of the stars.
• 10:27
  And then when you read about the galaxies and galaxies of galaxies and galaxies that they're so far away, and you think about God just flinging out the stars that are you trillions and trillions of stars and so far of them away that we can only see from like the Hubble telescope in places like that.
• 10:47
  Um do we have any idea of how big the universe actually is?
• 10:52
  Well, we have an idea of how big it is at least, but uh as to its true size, who who knows?
• 10:58
  Um, there are certain theoretical limitations based on certain assumptions about how it's expanding and so on that would that would limit the size, but we don't really know how big it is.
• 11:07
  We do know that it's bigger than secularists were expecting.
• 11:10
  Uh, one of the things that I predicted back in January of 2022 is that galaxies would extend farther out into space than secularists were expecting, because they they believe they believe in the big bang.
• 11:22
  They believe that as you look farther out into space, it's like looking back in time because the light allegedly took billions of years to get from there to here.
• 11:29
  I reject that.
• 11:30
  And so I said, in my view, you'll be able to see galaxies at distances far beyond red shift of 14.
• 11:36
  Uh, red shift indicates how much the light's been stretched, and the farther away galaxies are, the more red shifted they are.
• 11:42
  And so at a red shift of 14, the light's been stretched 14 times, which means those galaxies are really out there.
• 11:48
  And that was kind of the limit at which secularists were expecting to find galaxies.
• 11:53
  Because in their view, um, as you look beyond that, you're looking back to a time where galaxies hadn't formed yet.
• 11:59
  It's too close to the big bang, galaxies are supposed to take hundreds of millions of years to form.
• 12:03
  I don't believe that.
• 12:04
  I believe God spoke those galaxies into those galaxies into existence on day four of the creation week, and therefore I predicted that they would be found at much greater distances.
• 12:13
  And James Webb has since confirmed that.
• 12:15
  The James Webb State Space Telescope has confirmed galaxies at distances beyond a redshift of 14, some of them out to a red shift of apparently 20, uh, some of those have yet to be verified.
• 12:25
  But um, very exciting stuff.
• 12:27
  So, yeah.
• 12:27
  Now, the stuff you can see naked eye, all within a few hundred, maybe a thousand, you know, like the star Deneb, which is a bright blue star in the summer sky, that's about two thousand light years away.
• 12:37
  And that's one of the most distant ones that you can see that's fairly bright in the night sky.
• 12:42
  Most of them are closer than that.
• 12:44
  Uh, the the most distant thing you can see with your naked eye is the Andromeda Galaxy.
• 12:49
  And that's just it looks like a little fuzzy spot in the winter sky, uh, kind of in between the constellation Cassiopia and the constellation Andromeda, where it gets its name, it's kind of what's it's in Andromeda.
• 13:01
  But that looks like a little fuzzy spot in the night sky.
• 13:04
  And that's two, that's about it's over two million light years away, where one light year is six trillion miles.
• 13:11
  And so you multiply that out and you find that's really far away.
• 13:14
  But um, with telescopes, we can see much further than that.
• 13:17
  And of course, with uh the Hubble telescope, you can go out even farther, and the whole point of developing the James Webb Space Telescope is to go out even farther.
• 13:24
  And if as far as we go, you find galaxies upon galaxies, each one containing perhaps a billion stars on average, some less, some more.
• 13:33
  And uh that blows my mind, because it's also that was all spoken into existence by God on day four of the creation week.
• 13:40
  So, and and and that shows how Earth really is special because Earth, if you if you read the creation account, God spent five of the six creation days working on Earth, making it right for life.
• 13:50
  He took one day out, that first Wednesday, and made everything else, everything else, all those stars and galaxies out there, and it's summed up in this little phrase, he made the stars also.
• 13:59
  And that would that would include all those hundreds of billions of galaxies.
• 14:03
  And some people have asked, well, why would God, you know, do all the, you know, make all those galaxies and everything like that?
• 14:10
  And I and I my response is always, I don't know.
• 14:12
  But if it was to impress me, he succeeded.
• 14:15
  Oh, very good.
• 14:17
  Very good.
• 14:18
  You know, um, I've had several conversations with and I've had on my show several times, L.A.
• 14:24
  Marzuly talking about aliens and UFOs and from a biblical perspective, and he's done, you know, he's got, I don't know, 20 some books out on the topic.
• 14:34
  He's done a full series of documentaries, and I've often, you know, thought about with extraterrestrial life, it could it really be that humans are it in this entire massive galaxy that we can't even see the end of it, and like you said, trillions and trillions of stars.
• 14:50
  Um, as an astrophysicist and as a Christian, what are your perspectives on extraterrestrial life and aliens?
• 14:58
  You know, the the conclusion that a person draws on that issue will be very heavily influenced by his or her worldview.
• 15:05
  Wait, what do you think is how the universe came about and what is its purpose?
• 15:10
  Now, secularists believe that the universe is an accident of a big bang.
• 15:14
  It's just something that happened and exploded, and life is just something that evolves when the conditions are right, and Earth's just one planet among billions.
• 15:22
  And we we are discovering planets orbiting other stars now.
• 15:25
  Uh so if if chemicals are right on Earth for life, hey, it's a big universe, life probably evolved elsewhere.
• 15:31
  And so one of the main reasons for believing in extraterrestrial life is it's motivated by an evolutionary worldview.
• 15:38
  Now I don't have an evolutionary worldview, I'm a biblical creationist.
• 15:41
  And one of the things I pointed out earlier, Earth is very special because for one thing, God says that he formed the Earth to be inhabited.
• 15:49
  That's Isaiah chapter 45, uh, verse 18, I believe, 45-18.
• 15:54
  God formed the earth.
• 15:55
  He didn't make it a waste place, he formed it to be inhabited.
• 15:58
  He doesn't say that about any other planet.
• 16:00
  All the other planets in the universe made on day four, Earth made on day one.
• 16:04
  Earth is very special in the eyes of God.
• 16:06
  And as far as we know, it's the only planet that God formed life and made it to be inhabited.
• 16:11
  God gave Adam dominion of all the creatures of the earth, but not in outer space, because I don't think there are uh creatures in outer space.
• 16:20
  And that's one way to think about it.
• 16:22
  The other thing to remember, too, is if you think about it in terms of our salvation.
• 16:27
  The reason that we can be saved is because we are descended from Adam, so is Jesus Christ, and that makes him our blood relative.
• 16:34
  And according to biblical law, only a relative can redeem you.
• 16:37
  There's the concept of the kinsman redeemer.
• 16:39
  It has to be a blood relative to take my place on the cross, and that's what Jesus did.
• 16:44
  But um E.T.'s out of luck because he's not really, he's not descended from Adam.
• 16:49
  And so he he's not related to Christ, and therefore he can't be saved.
• 16:53
  And some people say, well, maybe um they don't need to be saved, but then they're suffering the effects of the curse because the Bible says all creation groans under a bondage of corruption.
• 17:02
  That's Romans 8, as a result of Adam's sin.
• 17:05
  So aliens would be suffering the effects of the sin, but they're not under Adam's dominion.
• 17:09
  It doesn't make sense.
• 17:10
  And Christ didn't go to all these other planets to die for for them.
• 17:14
  He died once for all, the Bible says.
• 17:16
  Jesus died once, and that means he didn't go to all these other worlds and die for the Klingons and the Vulcans.
• 17:21
  And I like Star Trek, but the real universe isn't that way.
• 17:25
  That's my point.
• 17:26
  So if you think about it, of all the planets in the universe, Earth is the one where God himself became a man and died our death on the cross.
• 17:34
  Uh, one of the astronauts who walked on the moon, Jim Irwin later became a Christian, and he said I'm paraphrasing, but he said something to the effect the the amazing thing is not that man walked on the moon, but that God walked on the earth.
• 17:47
  And I think that's something really special.
• 17:49
  That's really profound.
• 17:50
  That's really, really profound.
• 17:56
  So I think that that is just really wise and profound, you know, that you know, and even if there is life on other places, the whole Christian story is about us and life here.
• 18:08
  So really kind of, if there's extraterrestrials, it's kind of irrelevant in terms of our of our lock with with Jesus and with God.
• 18:16
  So I think that's really important.
• 18:17
  Um, what was when some of your, maybe more than one of your most surprising things that you found in relationship to the study of astrophysicists through the lens of the Bible?
• 18:29
  One of the things that uh it's really important, and it's not something I had thought about when I was younger, is that it's the biblical worldview that makes science like astrophysics possible.
• 18:42
  Um it's it's science is actually predicated on Christianity.
• 18:45
  A lot of people don't realize that, the Christian worldview.
• 18:48
  Um, why can we do science?
• 18:50
  Because there are patterns in the universe.
• 18:53
  And why are there patterns in the universe?
• 18:54
  Because the universe is created by God, it's created by the mind of God, and therefore there are logical patterns that we can discover because we're made in God's image, and we have the capacity to think in a limited way, like God does, because we're made in his image.
• 19:08
  God gave us reliable senses, my eyes, my ears, I can probe reality because of the way I've been created, and God made our minds to be logical to think in a in a in a way that reflects his thinking, so that we can discover truth by peering out of the universe.
• 19:21
  But if you think about it, none of that would make sense if the universe were just chance.
• 19:26
  If the universe had just exploded into existence, there's no mind behind it.
• 19:29
  Why would you expect to find patterns in nature?
• 19:32
  Why would you expect that our senses that are just allegedly evolved by accident would be able to inform us reliably about the universe?
• 19:41
  That's an assumption, but in in a creation worldview it makes sense.
• 19:44
  In a secular worldview, it doesn't.
• 19:47
  Why would you assume that your mind, if it's just the rearranged pond scum basically, um would have the capacity to discover truth from what you observe in nature?
• 19:57
  That makes no sense.
• 19:58
  It makes no sense to say everything about us.
• 20:00
  Is just an accident, but but we have realized, we have figured out all these things about the universe.
• 20:05
  That doesn't make any sense.
• 20:06
  But if I'm designed by God, science makes sense.
• 20:09
  The whole idea that we can do an experiment under certain circumstances and get a certain result.
• 20:14
  And then if you do the same experiment under the same conditions, you get the same result.
• 20:18
  That makes sense if God is upholding things in a consistent way.
• 20:22
  But in the chance universe, there's no reason to expect that kind of orderliness.
• 20:26
  And in a chance universe, you do an experiment, you get one outcome, you do the same experiment the next day, you get totally different outcome.
• 20:31
  It's a chance universe.
• 20:32
  There's no reason to expect consistency.
• 20:35
  Now see, we don't think about this because we take it for granted.
• 20:38
  We we all assume that if you, you know, when you stub your toe, it hurts.
• 20:43
  And so you you take great care not to stub your toe again because you assume it'll hurt again.
• 20:47
  That's a creationist assumption, though.
• 20:49
  That makes sense because God has promised a degree of orderliness in nature.
• 20:54
  Genesis 822, God promises that the basic cycles of nature will continue in the future, as they hasn't as they have in the in the past, like the sunrise and sunset, for example.
• 21:04
  And so I know as a Christian, if I stub my toe again, it's gonna hurt again.
• 21:08
  But in a secular worldview, why would you assume that that?
• 21:11
  If it's a chance universe, maybe the next time I stub my toe, it'll be the most enjoyable experience of my life.
• 21:15
  Now, nobody believes that, but that's my point.
• 21:18
  Is we all we all know in our heart of hearts that that the biblical God exists and that he's upholding his universe in a consistent way.
• 21:25
  That's why we can do science.
• 21:27
  That's why the founding fathers of the various disciplines of science, almost all of them were Christians, very few exceptions, uh, because they expected to find patterns in nature because they knew that this universe was upheld by the mind of God.
• 21:40
  Seculars can't make sense of that.
• 21:42
  The secularist David Hume, he was utterly stumped on the question, how do I know the sun will rise tomorrow?
• 21:48
  We all suspect that.
• 21:50
  I can as a Christian can answer that.
• 21:52
  I got a promise from God.
• 21:53
  Genesis 822, God's beyond time.
• 21:55
  He knows the future.
• 21:56
  He's told me the sun will rise tomorrow.
• 21:58
  Genesis 8.22, there it is.
• 21:59
  I got a promise from God.
• 22:00
  That's how I know.
• 22:01
  How do you, Mr.
• 22:02
  David Hume?
• 22:03
  How do you know the sun will rise tomorrow?
• 22:04
  He couldn't give an answer from his secular worldview.
• 22:07
  He couldn't answer that.
• 22:08
  And so all science is predicated on there being patterns in nature, and those patterns are not something you would expect from a secular worldview.
• 22:16
  So the existence of astrophysics, astrophysics owes its existence to the Christian God.
• 22:24
  You know, there's this um this argument that says that science and faith are not compatible.
• 22:30
  But based on what you just said, science and faith have to intertwine, or there's no science.
• 22:36
  That's right.
• 22:37
  Science is predicated upon the Christian worldview.
• 22:40
  It's based on that, and it cannot exist apart from it.
• 22:43
  And that's something that we've forgotten in our modern age.
• 22:46
  We think that now that we've got all this technology that was based on ideas discovered mainly by Christians.
• 22:52
  We think we can now put away the Christian worldview and continue on that, but you've lost your foundation.
• 22:56
  You cannot continue to expect orderliness in a universe that is chance.
• 23:01
  That's just chance.
• 23:02
  It doesn't make any sense.
• 23:04
  You know, I've seen some pretty incredible videos over time.
• 23:09
  I can't even remember where I first saw them, but they're about the developing embryo and how things, and that's another thing that happens predictably all the time.
• 23:17
  You know, that there's human beings that that you know, you start with the heart, and this goes to the next thing and the next thing.
• 23:23
  And I just, I just look at how beautiful and how magnificent all of these cells that they weave together.
• 23:30
  It's just beyond my comprehension of how people can believe that that came from primordial soup somewhere.
• 23:36
  I just can't.
• 23:37
  Yeah, it is.
• 23:38
  Yeah, it is.
• 23:39
  Because every stage has to work properly, right?
• 23:41
  I mean, you when it's not, you know, we think of our DNA as encoding all of our traits, and it does, but it has to allow for the fact that our our physical body changes from when we're well, from when we're an embryo to a fetus to a born baby to an adult.
• 23:58
  Your body changes, and each step has to work properly.
• 24:00
  So the DNA not only encodes our three-dimensional form, but our four-dimensional being as we change over time.
• 24:06
  And it's it is astonishing.
• 24:08
  It is absolutely amazing, the design of the the baby and how that it's it's just it really is amazing.
• 24:15
  And it's something that's hard to how can anybody think that that just happened by chance?
• 24:20
  It really it takes a great degree of brainwashing to convince yourself that the the complexity of the human body could just is something that could just happen by mutations that happen to be, you know, the negative ones happen to be weeded out by natural selection.
• 24:33
  That's not gonna work.
• 24:34
  Exactly.
• 24:35
  Well, Jason, this is a good spot to be able to take a little break.
• 24:39
  We need to take a break for to hear it to hold hold that thought.
• 24:42
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  Jason Lyle about his book Taking Back Astronomy, The Heavens Declare Creation.
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• 32:20
  Well, welcome back, everyone.
• 32:22
  Today we're talking with Dr.
• 32:23
  Jason Lyle about his book, Taking Back Astronomy, The Heavens Declare Creation.
• 32:28
  Let me tell you a little bit more about today's amazing guest.
• 32:31
  Dr.
• 32:32
  Jason Lyle is a speaker, author, researcher, and astrophysicist who studies issues at the intersection of science and Christian faith.
• 32:40
  He graduated Sumacum Ladi from Ohio Wesleyan University, where he doubled and majored in physics and astronomy and minored in mathematics.
• 32:49
  He earned his master's degree and PhD in astrophysics from the University of Colorado in Boulder.
• 32:54
  Jason has more than 20 years of professional experience in creation ministry and continues to partner with other biblical creation ministries, such as the Creation Museum, where he wrote a number of planetarium shows, including the popular created cosmos.
• 33:10
  He is the founder of the Biblical Science Institute, a creation science ministry that exists to help rational rationally defend the Christian worldview against those who claim that the Bible is unscientific, particularly the early chapters of Genesis.
• 33:27
  Jason, welcome so much to the back to the show.
• 33:30
  I just so enjoyed talking to you.
• 33:31
  I could talk to you for hours.
• 33:33
  When did you first become a Christian and when did you decide to become an astr and go into astronomy and become an astrophysicist?
• 33:41
  So I was very young when the Lord saved me.
• 33:44
  I was maybe six or seven years old.
• 33:46
  Uh I was uh reared by Christian parents.
• 33:48
  I'm very grateful for that.
• 33:50
  Uh they took me to church.
• 33:51
  And yeah, when I was six or seven, I I didn't have a very sophisticated theology, but I knew that I I had violated God's law, and I knew that the penalty for that was death and an eternal death because I've sinned against an infinitely holy God.
• 34:03
  And I knew that Jesus uh was willing to pay for my sins on the cross if I would but repent and trust in him.
• 34:08
  That's that's the gospel in a nutshell.
• 34:10
  And I believed that when I was maybe six or seven years old, and I've never had any reason to doubt that.
• 34:14
  Uh I became very interested in astronomy very early on, as far back as I can remember.
• 34:18
  I I I would just been fascinated with outer space.
• 34:20
  There's something amazing about it.
• 34:22
  And in fact, in taking back astronomy, I've really tried to encapsulate some of the uh uh some of the things that I find very wonderful and beautiful about the universe in into that book.
• 34:32
  Uh, because I remember reading these things.
• 34:34
  This was, of course, this is before we had the Hubble space telescope, but so all the images, they're just a little bit blurry that we didn't have these super sharp images back then.
• 34:42
  But uh it was yeah, I became very interested during the 80s when the Voyager was Voyager 2 was still out there and going past Jupiter and Saturn, and then eventually um in 86 it went past the planet Uranus, and we had for the first time these beautiful images.
• 34:56
  Uh space is beautiful.
• 34:58
  It's so big, it's so abstract.
• 35:01
  There's just something about it that captured my imagination.
• 35:04
  And I think the fact that I'm a Christian as well, I could see that the glory of God is revealed in his creation.
• 35:10
  That's what the Bible says in Psalm uh 19:1 that the heavens declare the glory of God.
• 35:14
  And they really do.
• 35:15
  So I think that's what attracts what attracted me to the field is that it's just beautiful and majestic and gives you a little window into the mind of God.
• 35:26
  Wow, that's fantastic.
• 35:28
  You know, there is someone by the name of Neil de Grassey Tyson that said, the more I look at the universe, just the less convinced I am that there is something benevolent going on that seems so contrary to what most people say about the universe when they start studying it.
• 35:44
  Doesn't that he doesn't see that God force in any shape of the glorious sky?
• 35:49
  What are your thoughts about this particular perspective?
• 35:52
  And do you think that's more pervasive among scientists and astronomers than not?
• 35:58
  I don't, I don't think that his view is necessarily typical.
• 36:01
  He certainly he believes in the standard big bang and so on.
• 36:04
  And by the way, Neil, if you're watching this, I'd be happy to debate you on these issues.
• 36:09
  But uh in any case, I I like me, I like Neil.
• 36:11
  He's he's a very good expositor of science, but he's taken his worldview.
• 36:16
  He has kind of either an agnostic or leaning atheistic worldview, and he looks at the universe that way.
• 36:22
  Um, I would say to him, if you think that there's not benevolence in the universe, how do you explain Jesus dying on the cross?
• 36:27
  That that doesn't make any sense.
• 36:29
  That shows that God is incredibly benevolent, that he would send his own son to die in my place.
• 36:34
  And for anyone who will repent and trust in him, anyone who will believe in Christ, he'll pay for your sins.
• 36:40
  That is benevolent.
• 36:41
  Now, if you if you see wickedness in the universe, you need to read Genesis chapter three.
• 36:46
  There's a reason for that.
• 36:47
  God's universe, when he first made it was very good, but he gave us the freedom to either obey or disobey.
• 36:52
  And when you disobey God, that brings in negative consequences.
• 36:56
  Genesis three is the fall of man, and that it's and God cursed the earth.
• 36:59
  And so perhaps Neil is thinking about these, you know, parasites where one animal feeds on, he feeds on another and destroys it.
• 37:07
  And there are things like that in the world today.
• 37:09
  And he says, Well, why would God allow that?
• 37:11
  Because that's what we wanted.
• 37:13
  When we rebelled against God, we were basically saying to God, we don't want to do things your way.
• 37:17
  We don't want this perfect paradise that and to live by your rules, we want to do things our way, and that always causes problems.
• 37:25
  But I would have to point out that if if Neil or or any anyone who has an atheistic worldview wants to say, well, a good God can't exist because there's evil in the world, I would point out to you that unless God exists, there can't be evil in the world.
• 37:40
  Because you see, the idea of evil and good presupposes that there's a standard of goodness.
• 37:46
  But if there's no God, it's just opinions, it's just preferences.
• 37:50
  And so when you see some animal attacking another, and you say that's that's wrong.
• 37:54
  Well, that's like when I watch somebody put anchovies on a pizza, and I'm thinking, that's just wrong.
• 37:58
  No, that's just against my personal opinion.
• 38:01
  But you see, if there's no God, there is no objective evil because there's no objective good.
• 38:07
  What one chemical accident does to another chemical accident is morally irrelevant, right?
• 38:12
  I mean, you mix the vinegar and the baking soda, it'll fizz.
• 38:15
  You don't get mad at it and say bad baking soda, you shouldn't have fizzed that way.
• 38:19
  Right?
• 38:19
  It's good, it's gonna do what it's gonna do.
• 38:21
  And so in a chance universe, there is no right or wrong, there's no evil or good, there's just what is.
• 38:27
  And so the fact that Neil or perhaps others are bothered by the wickedness, the evil things, the pain that we see in the universe shows that in their heart of hearts, they really do know God.
• 38:37
  And that's something the Bible teaches in Romans chapter one that the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who the Bible says the Bible doesn't say who just don't know any better.
• 38:48
  It says who suppress the truth and unrighteousness.
• 38:50
  Everyone knows God.
• 38:52
  The problem is most people hate God.
• 38:54
  And so they work very hard to convince themselves that God doesn't exist.
• 38:58
  And so I see that, I see that inconsistency when I see someone complaining that God must not exist because there are things in this universe that I just don't like.
• 39:06
  That doesn't follow logically.
• 39:08
  That's like saying I don't like it when somebody puts anchovies on a pizza, therefore that person doesn't exist.
• 39:13
  That is not logical.
• 39:15
  But the create the Christian worldview is logical and makes sense of things like good and evil.
• 39:20
  And God ultimately is going to end evil.
• 39:22
  So he's he's got a place, he's got a place where evil will be contained and separated from the rest of the universe forever.
• 39:28
  And that's something that that's the lake of fire, and you don't want to go there.
• 39:31
  So I'd encourage uh people who are listening to this to repent and trust in Christ so you can be with him for all eternity.
• 39:37
  I think that's um listening to you speak.
• 39:40
  I th you know, I when I was in college, um, I almost I almost didn't pass physics.
• 39:45
  It just I just couldn't couldn't get it.
• 39:48
  I couldn't get this area under a curve thing and and you know, all I just couldn't.
• 39:52
  I could memorize from here to Kingdom Come, but I couldn't really get that.
• 39:56
  But I think that, you know, listening to you speak.
• 39:59
  Um,
• 40:00
  Understanding and stuff this and studying physics creates a way, a pathway of logical thinking and being able to compare and to give really, really good analogies about that.
• 40:12
  I think that it's you know, really um that the that the mathematics that are within physics um are really structurally what kind of keeps everything together.
• 40:24
  Yeah, and and and that makes sense again in a Christian worldview, that makes sense because uh math when you do math, and physics is based on math.
• 40:32
  Math is the way God thinks about numbers.
• 40:34
  If I could define math, math is the way God thinks about numbers.
• 40:37
  And the reason it works is because God upholds his universe in a consistent way.
• 40:41
  There was a brilliant physicist, uh, Eugene uh Wigner, and he wrote this article.
• 40:46
  He was a Nobel Prize winning physicist, brilliant guy.
• 40:49
  And he wrote an article called The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics and the Natural Sciences.
• 40:54
  And he's asking this question, why is it that the universe obeys math?
• 40:58
  Because math's something you do in your head, right?
• 41:00
  It's a mental, it's it's a mental thing, it's conceptual.
• 41:03
  Why does the physical universe feel compelled to obey math?
• 41:06
  And the interesting thing is in his article, and it's a brilliant article, but from his apparently non-Christian worldview, he couldn't find an answer.
• 41:13
  He couldn't answer that question.
• 41:15
  Why does the universe obey math?
• 41:16
  I, as a Christian, can answer that.
• 41:18
  I can say, because the universe is upheld by the mind of God, the mind of God thinks mathematically, therefore the universe will obey math.
• 41:25
  And the reason I'm able to discover math is because I'm made in God's image, and I can apply that to the universe.
• 41:31
  And so the reason we can do science, the reason we expect the universe to obey mathematical laws, which everyone does, is because it's upheld by the mind of God, the very mind responsible for mathematics.
• 41:42
  So yeah, I think when you study physics, you're studying, you're studying the way God applies math to his universe.
• 41:49
  And in a way, you're doing theology.
• 41:52
  You're studying, you're learning more about God and the way that he upholds his universe.
• 41:56
  And yeah, that's gonna, I if you do that right, if you do it from a Christian perspective, I think you can enjoy the fact that you're learning something about God and the way he upholds his creation.
• 42:06
  And that is going to make you more logical, I believe.
• 42:08
  As is studying scripture, by the way, because when you read God's word, I believe that that that changes you and makes you more, it conforms you to the character of a sun, is the way the Bible puts it.
• 42:18
  Well, that's a really inspirational message, I hope for young people that are listening to this and are going, I hate math.
• 42:26
  You know, like most kids do, right?
• 42:28
  And maybe it's like, hmm, maybe I should rethink that, and maybe I should learn how to understand math rather than saying I hate math.
• 42:36
  That's really really, really good advice.
• 42:38
  Yeah, you're learning to think more like God when you when you think but it's hard.
• 42:41
  Yeah, you're learning to think like God.
• 42:43
  You know, that's gonna, that's not gonna be simple.
• 42:45
  But what a what a privilege, what a privilege that we human beings being made in God's image.
• 42:50
  We're the only creatures that do math, really.
• 42:53
  I mean, animals, maybe in a very limited, they might be able to keep track of something, but that's about it.
• 42:58
  We can do that because we're made in God's image and it's a tremendous honor.
• 43:01
  But nobody said it's gonna be easy.
• 43:02
  You you know, when you when you're learning to think like God, that's that's a that's quite a challenge, but it's a wonderful one, and it's a great honor.
• 43:09
  That's really, really good.
• 43:10
  So, what are your thoughts about flat earth?
• 43:13
  I mean, that's become such a big argument back and forth.
• 43:17
  And in my opinion, it's just another way to divide us.
• 43:20
  But you know, there's all these divisions that are going on.
• 43:22
  But there are a lot of people that would go to the mat with you on that, you know, saying that you know, they talk about the four corners of the earth and God divided the earth from the firmament, and that the math doesn't work on the curvatures.
• 43:35
  What are your thoughts about flat earth and how do you how would you define or not define that?
• 43:41
  Yeah, it's you know, it's become almost a cult, and I hate to say that, but people once they go down that path, once they get pretty far in there, you can't reason with them anymore.
• 43:49
  Because I've I've got on on the website on biblical science institute.com, I've I've listed some experiments you can do yourself to test the shape of the earth to see that it's that it is in fact around, and in fact, you can even measure the size of the earth.
• 44:03
  And I've done these experiments.
• 44:04
  So for me, it's not a hypothetical.
• 44:06
  I'm not guessing about the shape of the earth.
• 44:08
  I know because I've done the ops, I've done the math, I've done the observations, I've done the experiments, and I would challenge anyone to do those experiments.
• 44:15
  That would be one of the first questions I would ask a flat earther is I would say, well, what experiments have you done to test the shape of the earth yourself?
• 44:23
  And of course they won't.
• 44:24
  They'll they'll refer to internet articles, right?
• 44:26
  They'll say, Well, I saw this video on the internet.
• 44:28
  Yeah, I know.
• 44:29
  Anybody can post an article on the internet or a video on the internet.
• 44:32
  There's your problem.
• 44:33
  But have you applied the scientific method?
• 44:36
  Have you tested this yourself?
• 44:37
  Have you done the math?
• 44:38
  I have, and I've I've and I haven't just said, here's here's what here's what it is, and here's the result.
• 44:44
  I've said, look, here's the math, here's how you do it.
• 44:46
  By all means, if I've made a mistake, explain to me where I've made a mistake.
• 44:50
  But things like calculating sunrise and eclipses, none of that works on a flat earth.
• 44:54
  And I can calculate those things.
• 44:56
  I've written computer programs where I can calculate how stars rise and set and things like that.
• 45:00
  I've I've done that in the past.
• 45:01
  When I when I was 16, we took our first trip, because again, I'm from Ohio.
• 45:05
  We took our first trip out to um Colorado, and I remember calculating based on the size of the earth, when we should be able to first see the Rocky Mountains, at what distance.
• 45:15
  And it turns out it's around 140 miles.
• 45:18
  That's that's the distance at which you can start seeing the the Rocky Mountains because beyond that distance, the curvature of the earth is such you can't you can't see them.
• 45:26
  And I would invite anyone to do that experiment.
• 45:28
  Conversely, if the earth's flat, theoretically, you should be able to see the Rocky Mountains all the way from Ohio.
• 45:34
  Uh with with you, especially with a telescope, which would make them bigger, because if the earth's flat, you should be able to see that.
• 45:39
  Um, from Dodge City uh from Kansas, I've calculated how big Pike's Peak would look if the Earth were flat.
• 45:45
  If the Earth's round, you won't see Pike's Peak from Dodge City.
• 45:48
  So go there and check.
• 45:49
  These are experiments people can do.
• 45:51
  The other thing I would warn people about is uh the misuse of scripture.
• 45:55
  A lot of people have tried to misuse the scriptures to try and support a flat earth.
• 45:58
  You mentioned the four corners of the of the earth and so on.
• 46:01
  You need to go back and look with that, look, look at how that phrase was used in the ancient literature that referred to the four cardinal directions.
• 46:08
  People did not believe in a flat earth at at the time that that was written.
• 46:12
  In fact, the oldest, well, like let me let me back up.
• 46:16
  The the very old, the pagan cultures believed in flat earth up until around 500 BC, and then the Greeks figured out that the world is round from in with good evidence.
• 46:26
  The fact that when the earth casts its shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse, they knew where the sun was, where the earth was.
• 46:31
  They could see that the earth was casting its shadow on the moon, always around shadow.
• 46:35
  They knew that.
• 46:35
  But the earliest reference to a round earth, it's in the Bible.
• 46:39
  It's in Job 26, verse 10, where it says that God inscribes a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness.
• 46:46
  And that circle is what we call the terminator.
• 46:49
  That's where light stops or terminate.
• 46:50
  It's where day and night, it's where evening and morning are occurring.
• 46:53
  It's where you're experiencing a sunrise or a sunset.
• 46:56
  And the only shape that has a circular terminator is a sphere.
• 47:00
  So the oldest reference I can find to a spherical earth is the Bible.
• 47:03
  And it's Job 26, 10.
• 47:05
  We think Job was written around 2000 BC.
• 47:07
  That's before the secularists figured out the world was round.
• 47:10
  So the by the Hebrews had some insight into this issue because they knew the creator of the earth, and he indicates in scripture that it's round.
• 47:17
  And I I've heard again, I've heard people try to take other verses out of context and say this means the earth's flat.
• 47:23
  No, it doesn't.
• 47:23
  And we actually have a series of articles on our website, believe it or not, refuting a flat earth.
• 47:28
  I hate to have to do those articles, but they're there because, like I said, it's it's best to know this in advance, because once you get sucked into that, it's like a cult.
• 47:36
  It's very hard to get people out of that.
• 47:38
  And it just corrupts their thinking.
• 47:40
  It's not something that is a salvation issue, but it is something that corrupts thinking, I believe.
• 47:44
  And I I've often wondered when I've and I've never, this isn't isn't a rabbit hole that I chose to go down.
• 47:50
  I had I have a couple of friends that really, really were like, look at this, look at this.
• 47:54
  And it's like, I I really I don't have enough time to do this, and it's not going to change my life one way or another if I agree with it or disagree with it.
• 48:02
  But I one of the questions I already always asked them, and I never got an answer was, well, then how do you explain sunrise and sunset?
• 48:09
  I mean, if it was flat, wouldn't you be sunny everywhere all at the same time?
• 48:15
  And when in now with a round earth, you've got sun on this side of the planet while it's dark on the other side.
• 48:20
  How do you explain that we don't just have sunshine everywhere?
• 48:24
  Was that a pretty decent argument for I think it is.
• 48:27
  Now they they have an answer for that, but it's not a good one.
• 48:30
  They in in the more popular view today, they've got the earth as sort of a flat disk, and then they've got the sun like a flashlight, and so it has a like a light cone that only illuminates part of the disk.
• 48:42
  And if you work out the math, it only illuminates one fourth of the disk, which means if you think about it, that means days, how long would days be, because it in reality, the sun illuminates half of the earth, not one fourth of it.
• 48:54
  So it would reduce the daylight hour.
• 48:55
  They they haven't done the math.
• 48:56
  It would reduce the daylight hours to half.
• 48:58
  But the other thing is you couldn't have a genuine sunrise or a sunset.
• 49:02
  Now the flat earthers will say, well, it merely appears to be setting due to perspective.
• 49:06
  And I would say you don't know what perspective means, because perspective is the angle that that um is uh the the angle that forms between the height of an object and its distance away from us.
• 49:16
  And I know how to calculate that.
• 49:17
  And I've even written up on the website, here's how you can calculate it.
• 49:20
  On a flat earth, the sun would never would never come, it would never meet the horizon, and it would never come below, I believe it's eight sun diameters uh to the horizon.
• 49:30
  And I've proved that on the website, so people can take a look at that article.
• 49:33
  You would never have a genuine sunrise or sunset on a flat earth.
• 49:36
  It wouldn't happen.
• 49:38
  Well, very good.
• 49:39
  I I can't wait to go to the website and look at some of these things so I can stock up on my arguments.
• 49:44
  That will be great.
• 49:45
  Um tell us again what the website is.
• 49:48
  Biblical science institute.com.
• 49:50
  Very good.
• 49:51
  You know, I've been listening to, I don't listen to it all the time.
• 49:54
  I catch it periodically, a creation podcast by Christian astronomers uh like yourself.
• 50:00
  And they are having a lot of conversations about how they think the universe will end.
• 50:05
  Do you have any perspective on that?
• 50:07
  Well, there's the secular view, of course.
• 50:09
  The secular view is that the universe will continue to expand indefinitely.
• 50:12
  And they used to think maybe it would recontract, but no, as far as I know, nobody believes that anymore.
• 50:17
  They think it'll continue to expand and eventually run out of usable energy and die, what's called a heat death because everything gives up its heat.
• 50:23
  It's kind of a counterintuitive because everything would be very cold.
• 50:26
  You'd lose all universe.
• 50:28
  You would lose all usable energy and everything dies.
• 50:32
  Pretty bleak.
• 50:33
  The Bible teaches that the universe will be remade by God.
• 50:37
  There's some details.
• 50:38
  It's given in uh poetic language, so it's kind of hard to discern.
• 50:42
  You know, what how to what do we pull from that?
• 50:43
  But it'll be rolled up like a scroll, the Bible indicates it's going to be remade.
• 50:47
  The earth's going to be burned and resurrected.
• 50:50
  Um what the Bible refers to as a new heavens and a new earth.
• 50:54
  And they're going to remain perfect forever, which means not one sin can come into him, and that's why we need Jesus to pay for our sins.
• 51:00
  Otherwise, we'd ruin the new earth the same way we ruined the original.
• 51:03
  We need Christ to pay for our sins and change our nature.
• 51:06
  So God is going to do something miraculous at the end of human history and uh put an end to wickedness once and for all, contain unbelievers in the lake of fire forever, where they can continue to rebel against God for all eternity, live the way they want to live.
• 51:21
  And uh those of us who have received Christ as Savior, we get to spend eternity with God in a new heavens and a new earth.
• 51:27
  As to the details of that, the Bible doesn't give us a lot of details other than it's going to be wonderful.
• 51:32
  It's going to be something where there's no more curse.
• 51:34
  The Bible says, no more curse.
• 51:36
  And that's just hard for us to fathom because the the curse has infected so much of this earth.
• 51:41
  We see ugliness and wickedness everywhere.
• 51:43
  But imagine the earth as it originally was before any kind of evil or death or disease that entered the world.
• 51:49
  Pretty amazing.
• 51:50
  And that's that's the eternity that awaits those of us who have trusted in Christ.
• 51:54
  I think in your book, I think this is where I saw it in your book, Taking Back Astronomy.
• 51:58
  You actually even have a diagram that shows that of how, you know, the earth goes along and then there's um judgment, and then there's this whole new, it's really well done.
• 52:08
  A lot of the um, not only are the pictures in this book just magnificent, but a lot of the diagrams and explanations make it so us common people who don't who didn't pass physics, can really understand it because it's really super good.
• 52:23
  Um, in fact, you have written another book, The Importance of Genesis, that we're gonna have you back on a different time to go through the details of that book.
• 52:31
  But can you give us some cliff notes about it and why Genesis is so important?
• 52:36
  Yeah, a lot of a lot of uh Christians even think, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I believe in Genesis, but it doesn't really matter.
• 52:41
  Don't have to worry about the creation versus evolution debate.
• 52:44
  One of the things I point out in the book is that it really does matter because Christian doctrines, all the things that we hold dear, have their foundation in the literal history recorded in Genesis.
• 52:54
  For example, Christians teach that marriage is one man and one woman united by God for life.
• 52:59
  That's it.
• 53:00
  It's not like, you know, there's there's not a million different genders like the woke mob believes in, and there's and it's not marriage is not a man and a man, marriage is one man, one woman united by God.
• 53:08
  Where does that come from?
• 53:09
  Genesis one and two.
• 53:10
  God made them male and female.
• 53:12
  And Genesis 2 specifically says, for this reason the man shall leave his father and mother and join to his wife, and they shall be one flesh.
• 53:18
  The Bible's very clear that God created the family unit from the very beginning.
• 53:22
  He created marriage, he created the male and the female.
• 53:25
  It's a beautiful thing.
• 53:26
  It's been so distorted by our culture, but it's beautiful in its original context.
• 53:30
  So if you reject that, if you say, well, I don't know, I don't believe in Adam and Eve.
• 53:35
  I think that's just a metaphor for you know eight, eight men's big eight men becoming human and so on, then you don't have any basis for marriage.
• 53:42
  You can't defend it.
• 53:43
  Jesus, when he was questioned about divorce to explain marriage, this is in Matthew chapter 19.
• 53:48
  Jesus went back and quoted Genesis 1 and 2 as the historical foundation for marriage.
• 53:53
  And so we need to understand that's the basis for it.
• 53:55
  Or or um the penalty for sin.
• 53:57
  We all know that the penalty for sin is death, right?
• 54:00
  That's why Jesus had to die on the cross.
• 54:02
  But where does that idea come from?
• 54:04
  It's right back in Genesis, Genesis 1, 2, and 3, when God put the man in the garden.
• 54:08
  He says, if you you know you can eat from all these trees if you eat from that one, that's disobedience, you're gonna die.
• 54:12
  You will surely die, indicating you'll be mortal.
• 54:15
  And uh, of course, he did, and he died.
• 54:17
  He became mortal that instant.
• 54:18
  And so you then you know, God gave him grace and allowed him to live for 930 years, but he still died.
• 54:24
  So the idea that death's the penalty for sin, that goes back to the literal history recorded in Genesis.
• 54:30
  And you say, Yeah, but I don't think I believe that.
• 54:32
  I think you know, animals have been living and dying for millions of years.
• 54:35
  Well, then that means that Adam's sin did not bring death into the world.
• 54:39
  And death is not the enemy, and it's not the penalty for sin.
• 54:42
  And then you'd have to ask, well, why did Jesus have to die on the cross?
• 54:44
  So those are just some things to think through, and the book will flesh that out and show you how Christian doctrines really do depend on the literal history recorded in Genesis.
• 54:54
  I can't wait now to have you back and to and to talk about that in more detail.
• 54:58
  You know, Jason, we've got like one or one or two minutes left.
• 55:01
  What is your take-home message about the universe that our God has made?
• 55:06
  Uh the reason we can do science is because God upholds his universe in a consistent way.
• 55:11
  And so whenever you rely upon a technological discovery, uh that the very computers that make that make these kind of interviews possible, you're tacitly so you're tacitly assuming the Christian worldview.
• 55:22
  You're tacitly assuming that God did make the universe and that he made it in the way that he says, and he upholds it in the way that he says.
• 55:29
  And so you're really tacitly assuming scripture.
• 55:32
  And a lot of people reject that foundation without realizing that the benefits from the Christian worldview, the technologies that we all enjoy today come out of Christian thinking, Christian reasoning.
• 55:42
  If you're a secularist, you don't have any basis for trusting in the methods of science.
• 55:47
  And so I would encourage people who haven't thought that way to repent, trust the Bible.
• 55:51
  It really is the word of God.
• 55:52
  It's demonstrated that by making science possible.
• 55:56
  Um, and of course, you can you can read books on the eyewitness testimony about uh Christ being risen from the dead.
• 56:01
  We have four gospels that record that event.
• 56:04
  They are very well attested historically.
• 56:05
  The Bible is unique in terms of its um authentication.
• 56:09
  It's not only archaeologically, but in terms of the manuscript evidence and so on.
• 56:13
  There's nothing like the Bible.
• 56:14
  It really is the word of God, and therefore I would encourage people if you haven't already uh trusted, uh repented of your sins and trust in Christ, please do so because uh the Bible really is true from the very first verse.
• 56:25
  Very, very good.
• 56:26
  We have like 30 seconds.
• 56:28
  Tell us the best place to get your book and your other books that you've made.
• 56:32
  And tell us just a little bit more about that website one more time.
• 56:35
  Okay, at the website, Biblicalscienceinstitute.com.
• 56:38
  You can get all those resources on that website, biblical science institute.com.
• 56:43
  We have a built-in web store there.
• 56:44
  You can get any of the books there.
• 56:45
  We got lots of DVDs as well, and um uh a lot of free articles on that website as well.
• 56:50
  If you'd like to support what we're doing, you can donate to us as well on that website.
• 56:54
  So it really is a great resource.
• 56:56
  And I I'd like to consider it kind of an ammunition depot for people to go and get this information and then take it out into the world that uh people might know that Jesus is Lord.
• 57:04
  I love that.
• 57:05
  Ammunition depot.
• 57:06
  That's really, really good.
• 57:08
  So, Dr.
• 57:09
  Jason Lyle, thank you so much for being here and sharing us, sharing with us today this wonderful truths about the the glory of the God in the heavens and what we see.
• 57:18
  So, with that, we're gonna close.
• 57:19
  Thank everybody else who joined us here today at the on the 10 Penny Files.
• 57:23
  We are here every day, Monday through Friday at 3 p.m.
• 57:26
  Eastern time.
• 57:27
  If you've missed our little conversations before, you can find them on your favorite spot podcast platform.
• 57:32
  So with that, I want to tell say everybody to have a great day, rest of your day, everybody.
• 57:36
  We'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on the 10 Penny Files.
• 57:40
  Goodbye and God bless.