Latest / DunkersPodcast / Is Abersoch Welcoming or Wary? | Community, Tourism and Coastal Change

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Is Abersoch Welcoming or Wary? | Community, Tourism and Coastal Change · DunkersPodcast

• 0:00
  Good afternoon and welcome to the Dunkers podcast.
• 0:02
  Now this is the second of our round tables and it's quite an
• 0:06
  interesting one because I've got some very interesting folk with
• 0:09
  me today and I'm going to call it welcoming or wary.
• 0:14
  The second homes tax premiums and the good old article for the
• 0:18
  future of prospect of property in Gwyneth today.
• 0:22
  It's a pleasure to be joined by my 3 guests, John Hughes, Angela
• 0:28
  Russell and Reese Elvins. So I'm going to set the scene
• 0:32
  first. So let's I'm going to use the
• 0:34
  Southern because it's this is the Dunker's podcast.
• 0:36
  I'm going to try and use that analogy.
• 0:39
  So it's time to dunk into the second home saga, Gwyneth style.
• 0:44
  Think of it as a local property market taking an ice cold dunk
• 0:48
  because in 2023 the council said enough slapping we they're going
• 0:54
  to put on 150% council tax premium on second homes.
• 0:59
  That's not a splash, It was a tidal wave.
• 1:02
  By the end of 24, house prices have plunged statistically 12.4%
• 1:07
  as owners bailed out fast and those hoping to dodge the tax by
• 1:12
  renting. You've got to actually let your
• 1:15
  home for 182 days and be available for 252 days because
• 1:21
  otherwise you're straight back into deep water.
• 1:24
  The message, if your home isn't a primary or truly long term
• 1:28
  rented, you're facing a full on dunk.
• 1:30
  Let's get into why this matters for owners, renters and the
• 1:34
  local community. And before we go a bit deeper,
• 1:37
  I'm going to ask each of you, that's John, Angela and Reece,
• 1:41
  just to sort of sum up your thoughts on this particular
• 1:44
  issue. John, do you want to lead off?
• 1:46
  Well, I've seen you've brought in the nautical terms, I'd say
• 1:49
  it's I'd call it the Titanic. I mean Abersoch was created as
• 1:54
  a, a tourist destination and now it has hit the iceberg and it's
• 2:00
  sinking. So I don't know where the
• 2:06
  council's coming from. It's damaging businesses and
• 2:12
  Abersoch in general's going down fast and as quick as the
• 2:17
  Titanic. Right, so we look for life, for
• 2:20
  life rafts and life belts, vests very quickly.
• 2:23
  Angela, what's your thoughts? Yes, my thoughts are very
• 2:26
  similar to and I would say going on the same line, I suppose I'd
• 2:30
  say it was a tsunami. It's bad what's happened and I
• 2:36
  think this year, although we've had perfect weather, I'm afraid
• 2:41
  that businesses are not doing well at all.
• 2:44
  And the houses, we've got more houses than I've ever seen up
• 2:47
  for sale and I think people are really worried.
• 2:51
  Yeah. And our segue into businesses.
• 2:54
  Reece, over to you. What's?
• 2:56
  Yeah, I mean, it's, it has been difficult and we've noticed the
• 3:01
  clear impacts of Article 4 already hard to truly understand
• 3:06
  the direct impacts of Article 4 because there's so much, so many
• 3:11
  other economic issues going on. So it's, it's, it's difficult to
• 3:15
  really pinpoint exactly what, you know, effect it's had.
• 3:20
  It's also trying the best to try and understand the purpose for
• 3:23
  these policies and. I'm.
• 3:25
  Yet to find the answer you know. Why is there 150% premium?
• 3:29
  Why is there an Article 4? Is it working 12 months on?
• 3:34
  There's so many unanswered questions.
• 3:35
  So I guess if if we can find some reason behind these
• 3:40
  policies, we could maybe understand.
• 3:43
  But. That would be the first thing
• 3:44
  people are asking. For still yet to find out why
• 3:48
  these measures are in place. Is Article 4A confusion for the
• 3:53
  150% council tax? Yes, yes, OK.
• 3:57
  We we've almost wanted to record ourselves talking this year and
• 4:02
  just when people walk in the office, say, listen to this,
• 4:05
  this is what's what so many people walk in and we explain
• 4:11
  what are you looking for? You're moving here, You're
• 4:13
  looking for a second home to truly to know which properties
• 4:17
  to point them at. And then when we ask do you know
• 4:21
  about the Article 4, It's oh, what's that?
• 4:23
  The council tax thing And and people are still not fully
• 4:27
  educated on it, No. It's probably because they were
• 4:31
  sort of merged or emerged at the same sort of time, wasn't it?
• 4:35
  You know, and and 11 could almost the syndicate in US would
• 4:39
  turn around and said one was a bit of a smokescreen for
• 4:42
  something else. But yeah, but that's I'm not a
• 4:46
  cynic. So Angela, do you think that's a
• 4:50
  fair? That's a fact, I think.
• 4:51
  It is and I think it was a problem that I could foresee
• 4:54
  right in the very beginning. We've talked about article
• 4:57
  thought coming. I can remember in meetings
• 4:59
  saying to them, well, what I think will happen will be people
• 5:02
  from away making it their prime homes and coming here to to live
• 5:06
  because, you know, everybody's working from home these days.
• 5:08
  So working from Abersoft or Sam Bedrock or wherever is simple,
• 5:12
  you know, so you don't have to have a second home here.
• 5:15
  So what's happening is as people are now buying their homes and
• 5:19
  making them their main homes, it's putting an extra burden on
• 5:23
  our doctors, which we are struggling with anyway.
• 5:27
  Yeah. And everything else that goes
• 5:29
  with it. Everything.
• 5:29
  I think the car crashes here, you know it.
• 5:32
  Because the infrastructure just doesn't.
• 5:34
  It isn't here, is it, John? No, no, that's, that's that's a
• 5:37
  really good point, Angela. Yeah.
• 5:39
  There's infrastructure in here you've got to remember.
• 5:41
  Also, this Article 4 was passed by eight members of the Cabinet.
• 5:45
  Out of how many out? Of 69.
• 5:48
  Out of 69. 69 councillors, OK, And then there's 10.
• 5:53
  Two were missing on the day they passed it.
• 5:55
  So eight people have passed this now then I'd like to know what
• 6:00
  background in business those eight had, right, if you know
• 6:04
  what I. Mean why did the other with the
• 6:05
  abstaining? Because we've got vested
• 6:07
  interest. Although absence, we don't know
• 6:10
  that why, but eight people passed this.
• 6:14
  It wasn't discussed. It wasn't.
• 6:17
  They said we're doing this now, then they're doing this solely
• 6:20
  on their own in Wales. No other county is doing Article
• 6:24
  4. Those that had been discussing
• 6:26
  it are pulled out, so it is only Gwynedd Council and Parker Airy
• 6:32
  that are doing Article 4. OK.
• 6:34
  So but other the other councils and councils in the UK are
• 6:38
  putting the 150% or a premium on second homes, aren't they?
• 6:43
  Yes. Is do you think that, is that
• 6:45
  really what started it? Because the the IT must have
• 6:48
  started somewhere as as Reece was saying, let's see if we can
• 6:52
  dig under the the rationale for this.
• 6:55
  What do you think? So say that again.
• 7:00
  Sorry. Did the Did Article 4 come from
• 7:02
  the? Yeah, did, did Article 4, was
• 7:04
  that seen as a sort of even an even if if the premium has been
• 7:08
  accepted by all the other boroughs or all the other areas
• 7:12
  in Wales and in in it's common in England for certain homes.
• 7:16
  Did that then sort of, if you like, almost inspire a greater
• 7:22
  Article 4 to emerge? I I think it's a game of chess
• 7:26
  or cat and mouse. I think they've introduced the
• 7:28
  150% premium and then people have obviously tried to get
• 7:33
  business rates to then not have to pay the premium.
• 7:36
  They've then changed the goal posts on the business rates.
• 7:39
  Then people fail to achieve the rates and then they have to
• 7:42
  default back to pains Second home council tax.
• 7:45
  OK. But then obviously they've put
• 7:47
  the Article 4 in place as well. So it's it's kind of there's a
• 7:50
  loophole there where you can put your holiday let onto business
• 7:53
  rates. Then they're trying to close
• 7:54
  that loophole. And if they just kept it simple
• 7:57
  from the, from the, from the start, you know, yeah.
• 8:01
  Yeah, John. Can I?
• 8:03
  Can I need what I want? No, absolutely.
• 8:04
  Yeah, please. Right, premium rates and active
• 8:06
  before. Ever since the discussion of
• 8:08
  implementing premium rates began, I've always spoken
• 8:12
  against them. I predicted the outcry and
• 8:14
  damage to our tourist industry, but it fell on deaf ears on
• 8:18
  death by the coming years after Article 4.
• 8:21
  That just takes away our human rights to ownership and freehold
• 8:25
  of our properties. I my proposal I suggested from
• 8:31
  the beginning that all dwellings should pay council tax.
• 8:35
  The exception being genuine bed and breakfast properties and
• 8:39
  small hotels. Airbnb's are a way out of paying
• 8:42
  rates on your second home by claim claiming it as a business.
• 8:47
  Those who are not exempt and feel wrongly done by can always
• 8:51
  claim business release through HMRC.
• 8:54
  Should they be declaring their accounts should come out.
• 8:58
  Women want to charge second home owner premium?
• 9:01
  Just put their homes up one band.
• 9:03
  Nobody would have complained and tourism would have continued to
• 9:06
  thrive. As it is many have sold and
• 9:10
  moved on houses bought or built by previous generations when the
• 9:14
  UK had an industry the best in the world.
• 9:17
  Now all gone. The future is bleak with many
• 9:20
  builders with no new builds on the horizon and farmers who have
• 9:23
  to others if I doubt, build it to holiday let's not reaching
• 9:26
  the 182 days target. In general, all involved in
• 9:31
  tourism will suffer and possibly not survive.
• 9:35
  No work, no language. Dim Weiss.
• 9:38
  Dim Weiss. Agreed.
• 9:41
  Agreed. Yeah, there's nothing.
• 9:43
  More that echoes the the sentiments of everybody.
• 9:46
  Yeah, it. Really.
• 9:46
  It really does. The the pity is, I mean when it
• 9:48
  all started, we had the consultation and almost 4000
• 9:52
  people responded to that consultation and they took not a
• 9:56
  blind bit enough to. So that was that was just sort
• 9:59
  of a painting of. Oh, that was just a tick box
• 10:02
  exercise, right? So is this is this because this
• 10:08
  sounds a bit undemocratic, let alone anything else?
• 10:12
  It's it's obviously punitive to a lot of a lot of people who
• 10:15
  have been encouraged. I'm just thinking the farmers
• 10:18
  were encouraged to invest into their properties and turn their
• 10:22
  their outbuildings into to rentals, not just Airbnb.
• 10:26
  There are other rental companies, but they were and
• 10:31
  then all of a sudden they've, they've now been hit with with
• 10:35
  this. Well, I mean, I've been here a
• 10:36
  long time. So was John, you know, and I can
• 10:38
  remember the good old days when the second homes were given a
• 10:41
  5550% discount on on their homes because they weren't here for
• 10:45
  half the year. So they were given half the
• 10:47
  rates. Whereas now we've gone good full
• 10:50
  circle and we've gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:54
  And is what is So is this political?
• 10:56
  I've got to ask, is this, is this political?
• 10:59
  Yes. It has to be, yeah, yes.
• 11:01
  Really, in all fairness, I can see we have to try and keep our
• 11:05
  local young children here. I know there's a problem people
• 11:08
  leaving, so we've got to try something, but I honestly don't
• 11:12
  think this is the answer. This is not the answer.
• 11:15
  We need to build houses for the local people and, and to make
• 11:20
  sure that they they'd stay in local.
• 11:23
  We've got 10 houses in slam bedrock that were built for for
• 11:26
  local people rent that they've been rent at.
• 11:29
  They could, they could have an option to buy, you know, a
• 11:32
  certain percentage of it. But even the community council
• 11:36
  was allowed to help to choose who came into those houses.
• 11:40
  And the local people that needed a house got a house.
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  So I think, and they can only be for the local people.
• 11:47
  More of that is what we want. But I think what we've done here
• 11:51
  is is not the answer. But would that if there was more
• 11:55
  of that say in Abersoch, would that would that blight the
• 11:59
  Abersoch market because there would be a a growth in
• 12:05
  affordable or supported housing? I, I have one person who
• 12:12
  actually has a house, but has got is once a bigger house, a
• 12:18
  four or five bedroom house. I got one other person that has
• 12:23
  a house, but it's not fit for living in the rent.
• 12:26
  It's small and the rent has gone through the roof.
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  These are the only two people asking me for houses in Avasar,
• 12:34
  right? And, and I've tried Abra, the
• 12:39
  housing association, yes and answering me.
• 12:42
  No e-mail has been answered. I've then been told even though
• 12:45
  I wrote to an e-mail they've given, they've obviously had the
• 12:48
  e-mail because it never bounced back.
• 12:51
  You know I've said. Just ignoring.
• 12:53
  They've ignored me. That was at the beginning of the
• 12:55
  summer. There's no point during the
• 12:57
  holiday period to try and sort it out.
• 12:59
  So I'll have to get on to that case again, those two cases
• 13:03
  again. But it it building they're going
• 13:08
  to build two more in Abery and a brokerman there.
• 13:13
  And it doesn't say on the application whether it's a four
• 13:16
  bedroom, 2 bedroom or three bedroom house.
• 13:19
  By the looks of the picture, The Archers impression it's a 2
• 13:21
  bedroom house. 2 bedroom houses you don't need you need at least
• 13:26
  a three bedroom house. I have AI would imagine that if
• 13:31
  you go to most of the villages here the the request would be
• 13:33
  for four bedroom house. You know, because yes, there are
• 13:37
  quite big families in Wales. That would be in the in the
• 13:41
  area. So but what I'm asking why are
• 13:45
  we building so many houses everywhere?
• 13:49
  Penrhyn Drake, I can't tell you how many there, but there's a
• 13:51
  lot in crickets. There's a lot, right?
• 13:53
  They're going to build 14 in Nevin, 1418 in Butternut, 14 in
• 13:58
  more than Nevin, but 18 Eden for in Manassa.
• 14:05
  And how many they're going to build in Penross, the camp,
• 14:09
  Polish camp in Penrose, I don't know.
• 14:13
  But none of us have. None of us have got massive.
• 14:18
  Requests, requirements or requests.
• 14:20
  No, no, no, no. OK.
• 14:22
  And and Abersox economy is like all the economies that the
• 14:27
  coastal economies, it's all about tourism.
• 14:31
  That's that's the strength of that's got the the the area to
• 14:34
  where it is, isn't it? We've only got 2 industries and
• 14:38
  that's tourism and agriculture. So what must what must Gwyneth
• 14:43
  do to to actually develop additional employment
• 14:47
  opportunities that would make affordable housing realistically
• 14:52
  attainable for locals? What must they do?
• 14:56
  Allow young people to self build.
• 15:00
  OK, nice idea. Is there?
• 15:03
  Is there an interest in self builds?
• 15:07
  But that you try getting the planning stuff. 15 acres and we
• 15:11
  tried to spoke to local councillors at the time and, and
• 15:14
  tried to build and it was, it just didn't go anywhere.
• 15:17
  We've got plenty of land here, of course, and I appreciate the
• 15:21
  the Greenbelt rules and the open countryside rules, but you can
• 15:24
  build things sympathetically or yeah.
• 15:28
  I can give you an example in Flanagan when you go down, drive
• 15:31
  down from the York Chapel into Flanagan and on the on your
• 15:35
  right hand side 2 houses being built now by two local couples,
• 15:40
  right? Yes, I had to fight tooth and
• 15:43
  nail to get that planning permission through and when they
• 15:46
  when they did pass it, that planners put so much.
• 15:51
  So many restrictions. Restrictions on it.
• 15:53
  It was unbelievable. One didn't build, the other one
• 15:56
  wouldn't have been allowed to live in it because she was a
• 15:58
  headmistress and her husband was a builder and their their income
• 16:03
  was too high for them to be allowed to live in it.
• 16:06
  That's been goodness that's gone now.
• 16:08
  I think they will be allowed when it's finished to live to
• 16:11
  live in it. But that's a kind of pressure
• 16:14
  that's on our young people. And I'll go with the.
• 16:19
  Yeah, sure, sure, sure. I'll go without houses on the
• 16:22
  farm. You know the old fashion house
• 16:23
  houses that have been now converted to less and then
• 16:26
  because they're not adequate for farming, right?
• 16:31
  But if your child wants to live in it as they grow up and marry,
• 16:34
  they're not allowed to because it's a holiday left.
• 16:38
  Wow. OK, yes, this is this, this just
• 16:41
  there's no, there's no joined up thinking here, is there?
• 16:44
  No. What we need to create is well
• 16:46
  paid jobs. Yes, well paid jobs.
• 16:48
  Which are going to be what Angela is that is that sort of
• 16:52
  information technology is. It, IT whatever, you know,
• 16:55
  that's the way ahead, isn't it? You know, they've just got a
• 16:58
  corner of the market there I think and encourage people, the
• 17:02
  young people, to stay here because everybody wants to go to
• 17:05
  Cardiff or Manchester. They used to be, they used to be
• 17:08
  industry in the Carnarvon area. They used to be industry in
• 17:11
  Botelli. You had a Calibra, the old
• 17:13
  engineering works. That's gone, you know, You know,
• 17:16
  on the hill as you go towards the garage, BB garage.
• 17:19
  I do that. That used to be a massive
• 17:21
  engineering. Yeah, well.
• 17:23
  Really. OK.
• 17:24
  You had big telephone companies and everything building in
• 17:28
  Cunarman. You had Ferodo, Yes, you had
• 17:32
  quite a good industry. Yeah, in, in, within.
• 17:37
  Striking distance of Abasau. Abasau and everywhere else,
• 17:40
  yeah, a lot of people work there.
• 17:42
  Yeah, of course we had the nuclear power stations, but
• 17:47
  they've rejected to develop the new Wilbur because it would
• 17:51
  prohibit the wealth language instead of that would have
• 17:54
  created well paid jobs. And that obviously has, I mean
• 17:59
  that's all of that is coming back to the commercial, the
• 18:02
  financial impact and Knight Frank, they claim that 34.7% of
• 18:09
  the market there was a collapse in agreed sales and, and, and
• 18:14
  the what's the story on the ground in Avot?
• 18:17
  Do you think it's as as as dire as that?
• 18:22
  Sales wise, yes. So yeah, it has dropped.
• 18:27
  So the the market peaked at the end of 2022 after the the COVID
• 18:31
  boom and it's dropped ever since.
• 18:33
  To be to be honest, it's dropped about 20% from the peak in 22 in
• 18:38
  this specific area. Funny enough, we've agreed to
• 18:41
  have a sale on the House here in Minnesota this week at 390
• 18:45
  started off at 495-1212 eighteen months ago And and it's just at
• 18:51
  the time it was comparable to other properties that had sold
• 18:54
  and then it's just dropped and dropped and dropped to just
• 18:57
  timing was poor and obviously Liz trust everything took
• 19:01
  everything took a turn downwards from when that was initially
• 19:04
  listed. But it it really is isn't great
• 19:10
  on on the residential market. It's actually encouraged.
• 19:13
  I mean it's probably a bit off topic, but it's actually
• 19:15
  encouraged people to to look at park homes a lot more.
• 19:20
  Park homes. Chalets, caravans, yeah, yeah.
• 19:24
  And basically because they're not involved in the politics, so
• 19:27
  they don't have to pay a stamp duty, they don't have to pay any
• 19:29
  council tax. And yes, they have to pay site
• 19:32
  fees, but they just can't be bothered with the, the Faf and
• 19:35
  the politics that is happening in, in Gwyneth right now.
• 19:39
  So they're saying, let's just buy our park home, use it for 15
• 19:42
  years and walk away happily. And haven't, you know, I've seen
• 19:45
  that and that's really been a real turn in the market I think
• 19:50
  recently. And and and in touring man's as
• 19:54
  well, that's increased or incredible on the clinch,
• 19:58
  really. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 20:00
  Yeah, how many legal sites there are?
• 20:02
  I don't know. I did in actual fact on that
• 20:05
  same sort of theme, I did go on to right move and just sort of
• 20:09
  dug around on there and they said that there was 146% more
• 20:14
  homes listed in June 2025 versus June 2022.
• 20:20
  So OK, that's a that's a three-year period.
• 20:23
  But to have a double plus, IE 146, that's a lot of homes that
• 20:29
  are now listed and you know, it's it just wherever you go,
• 20:35
  there are there are for sale signs, aren't there?
• 20:37
  Yeah. It's, it's a mixture of people
• 20:40
  failing to meet the business rates and therefore selling
• 20:45
  because they're defaulting back to paying the premium that
• 20:47
  they've not been used to. But yeah, I agree with your
• 20:49
  point John completely. Just get rid of the business
• 20:52
  rates. Just stick to council tax and if
• 20:54
  you're renting your house out and you're paying some premium
• 20:58
  on the second homes and surely you can afford to pay the
• 21:00
  premium with the rental income and pocket the rest like
• 21:02
  everyone used to before before the business space was was
• 21:05
  exploited. Yet in 2024 to 25 these
• 21:09
  measures, the measures that they've now introduced generated
• 21:13
  15.7 million, which is funding roughly 800 additional or
• 21:18
  rehabilitated housing units. And yet homelessness because
• 21:24
  you'd think well, more housing, less homeless.
• 21:27
  Yet homelessness and affordability are both on the
• 21:31
  are in the on the increase and remain pressing that came from
• 21:34
  the Financial Times they. They they're using the premium
• 21:39
  tax revenue, yeah, to look after the homeless.
• 21:43
  The percentages. But.
• 21:46
  Taking obviously from areas like this and using it elsewhere
• 21:50
  where surely you should take. From here and use it here.
• 21:53
  Yeah, completely. I mean, I added a few a bit of
• 21:56
  figures. There's 550, sorry, 5500 second
• 22:01
  homes currently in Gwyneth according to Google.
• 22:05
  And then if you take the average band E in council tax, second
• 22:09
  Home Premium on that band is about 7000 LB.
• 22:12
  That's 38 and a half million pound.
• 22:15
  Right. What's happening with that?
• 22:17
  Where's it going? And and same thing for the stamp
• 22:19
  duty on second homes. You buy a £500,000 house in
• 22:24
  Wales, stamp duty is £42,000 by £1,000,000 house.
• 22:29
  Stamp duties 110,000 LB. Again, this money goes to
• 22:33
  obviously Cardiff government. It doesn't.
• 22:36
  Why isn't the money being put back into the local community
• 22:39
  where it was generated? It's simple solutions.
• 22:45
  Well, absolutely. Is that because it's, it is
• 22:49
  Welsh government? I mean, The thing is that there
• 22:51
  wasn't you and I spoke just off the record or or off Mike Angela
• 22:56
  and you were saying that there is a there's a a feeling afoot
• 22:59
  that they might reduce the second home tax in England down
• 23:04
  to about 70%. They were talking in in that
• 23:07
  sort of region. Now, is that so?
• 23:10
  When I sort of thought about that and spoke to one or two
• 23:14
  people who are going through these, this, this not not easy
• 23:17
  loop, this well, does that mean that arts will come down to from
• 23:22
  150 to 70? But I don't suppose it does
• 23:24
  because Wales can do what they want.
• 23:27
  This is imposed by Cardiff, isn't it?
• 23:29
  Yes, yeah, but Cardiff, the Labour government in Cardiff is
• 23:33
  relying on Plaid Cymru to support support to pass their
• 23:37
  policies. OK, so it's that P again in the
• 23:41
  politics. Politics again.
• 23:43
  Yeah, Yeah. But what I feel sorry for is the
• 23:47
  people that have inherited it, their parents home, they've
• 23:51
  moved away because this, there were no jobs for them here.
• 23:55
  Well, the jobs that they're trained for because they've been
• 23:57
  to university and everything else.
• 23:59
  And let's not forget, we're trying to get every child to go
• 24:01
  to university these days. So they've been to university
• 24:05
  away from here. The jobs they have that they've
• 24:08
  studied for and possibly got and not here, they come back, they
• 24:13
  visit the parents, the parents are passed and their homes are
• 24:18
  handed to the parents, to their children, to their children.
• 24:22
  Now they have to pay premium tax on their home, basically where
• 24:26
  they were brought up. They can't afford it.
• 24:30
  You know they weren't expecting. It well, no, there's a, there's
• 24:33
  an asset, but there's not cash there's.
• 24:35
  Not cash and therefore those houses must go, have to go on
• 24:39
  the market. So you're driving away the
• 24:42
  people that possibly might come back here to live one day.
• 24:45
  Yeah, yeah. You're driving them away.
• 24:49
  And and you've noticed that have you Reece with the the time of
• 24:53
  time? Yes and in addition because of
• 24:57
  the Article 4 now you inherit the property and it can only be
• 25:00
  sold as per its use from September the 1st last year.
• 25:04
  So that there there it's an empty property.
• 25:06
  But then the the siblings can only sell it as a residential
• 25:09
  property if their parents have were living there last.
• 25:13
  So then they're restricted in terms of the type of people or
• 25:16
  sorry, not type of people, but the type of buyer that they can
• 25:19
  sell to constantly being residential only, right.
• 25:21
  Whereas in previous years we could all sell in an open market
• 25:24
  to whoever we want and achieve open market value.
• 25:27
  But. Can't you can't you get this is
• 25:30
  this is an ignorance on my part I guess.
• 25:33
  Can't you get a license or permission to change the use on
• 25:36
  that property You. Can request planning permission,
• 25:38
  but they won't give. It to you?
• 25:40
  Oh, really? So no, they won't let you change
• 25:43
  from residential to a second home or holiday.
• 25:45
  Let. No.
• 25:46
  Right. So although it's in the small
• 25:48
  print, it's it's not being acted.
• 25:51
  Well, you could try, but you didn't get, Yeah.
• 25:53
  Basically. It's even restricting.
• 25:56
  You can't even change from a second home to a holiday let
• 25:58
  anymore. You have to ask for planning
• 26:01
  permission to rent your second home these days and the answer
• 26:04
  is no. Again, yes, at the moment for
• 26:07
  because it changes the character of the area.
• 26:09
  Is the is the definition. Do you think, I mean, I think
• 26:13
  another thing that you just mentioned that's just strung a
• 26:16
  bell in my, in my mind is the fact that it came in as
• 26:20
  September the 1st last year. So this is retrospective, isn't
• 26:24
  it, rather than dynamic because it was supposed it wasn't
• 26:27
  supposed to come in as of this September?
• 26:32
  No, I think. It was last was it last
• 26:34
  September. But but also what they've done
• 26:36
  is after COVID, when they've gone back, instead of two years
• 26:41
  in premium tax rates to people, even though they hadn't let over
• 26:46
  COVID, they've gone back three years.
• 26:48
  So people are not getting the two year bill.
• 26:49
  They're getting a three-year bill at the moment, which is
• 26:51
  causing a lot of stress. Not nice thoughts in people's
• 26:57
  mind. What am I going to do?
• 27:02
  I've had one person come to me with which I've managed to talk
• 27:06
  him out of. Really.
• 27:07
  Yes, he was the worst scenario. Yeah, I'm not going to say it.
• 27:10
  No, no, no, no. And that I feel sorry for, but I
• 27:14
  also feel sorry for other people, you know, that they've
• 27:17
  run holiday businesses here, they live here, they've run
• 27:21
  holiday business here. They've got, they've got their,
• 27:24
  their, their holiday, holiday home.
• 27:27
  And now everything, the whole scenario has changed on it.
• 27:29
  Yeah, now it's not viable, but they've built a nice business,
• 27:34
  they've got 3-3 or four holiday let's they bought and a lot of
• 27:37
  the houses they bought aren't fit for living through the
• 27:41
  winter in them anyway because. You know there are a.
• 27:45
  Lot of houses in Abazov were specifically built for the
• 27:49
  summer for holiday. Let's for second homes there was
• 27:53
  a specific point built for that right?
• 27:55
  So they're not fit for purpose, no for.
• 27:58
  A 365 occupation, No, Right. OK.
• 28:02
  You know, they the, the building is funny, yes, but you would
• 28:06
  have to do a lot to it if you were going to live in it all
• 28:08
  year round. Right, OK.
• 28:10
  And and that again will restrict your market, wouldn't it?
• 28:14
  It's everything comes back to a sort of tying up the market and
• 28:18
  just yeah, so the pipeline is getting smaller and smaller,
• 28:22
  yeah. It comes back to the question of
• 28:24
  what, what do they want? What are they actually trying to
• 28:26
  achieve? Because, you know, put, let's
• 28:29
  say the whole Labasoft village was full of main residents,
• 28:32
  everybody they that's, is that what they want?
• 28:35
  The infrastructure, there's not enough jobs for everybody and it
• 28:42
  just doctors would be overrun. And is that what they want?
• 28:46
  Because it's not viable, Is it so?
• 28:49
  It's no, no, it's, it's one step forward and two steps back or
• 28:54
  three steps back, isn't it? And it's just, and The thing is
• 28:57
  that these, the, the introduction from what you've
• 28:59
  said this afternoon, the introduction of these new
• 29:01
  policies seem to fall over themselves.
• 29:04
  That doesn't seem as though there's any sort of rational
• 29:08
  pathway that's been laid out and and certainly no consultation,
• 29:13
  which is, which is just staggering.
• 29:15
  It's staggering. There was a consultation, they
• 29:17
  haven't listened to it. My apologies.
• 29:20
  OK, Yeah, not to split hairs. There was a consultation which
• 29:24
  there's has been over over overthrown.
• 29:27
  They also think, you know, that Avatar especially, oh, it's a
• 29:31
  ghost town in the winter. On the contrary, there's quite a
• 29:35
  we're quite vibrant. There's a good healthy society
• 29:38
  here. There's a lot that goes on and
• 29:41
  you know, we all help each other as well.
• 29:44
  There is a good, helpful society.
• 29:48
  Do you think I'm going to come back to something that you said,
• 29:51
  Reece, and that was about got our eleven day Prime Minister?
• 29:55
  What on earth? Yeah, let's trust.
• 29:58
  Thank you. Does this come back to her
• 30:01
  because the, the, the the impact that that cat had with on
• 30:06
  people, the money in people's pockets, Is this almost a sort
• 30:10
  of a has this been exacerbated by the fact that cost of living
• 30:14
  has gone so, so high is or would this just would this mess around
• 30:21
  150% in Article 4 just have existed anyway?
• 30:27
  I think it would exist anyway. And I think you're saying the
• 30:33
  lack of people in the whole of the UK because of that 1%
• 30:37
  declined. So, you know, we're just seeing
• 30:42
  the beginning, I think, and now they're talking about putting
• 30:45
  taxes up again and they accept for that.
• 30:49
  There's a talk that they put the, you know, like now.
• 30:53
  They'll change the threshold on the.
• 30:54
  Threshold on that that. Still bring.
• 30:57
  Smaller business into that threshold.
• 31:01
  Well, I've had a, I've had a builder approached me this week
• 31:04
  and he said to me, look, he said they had two extensions, big
• 31:08
  extensions planned for this winter.
• 31:11
  And both have come back and said, look, that we're
• 31:15
  cancelling them. We're not investing.
• 31:17
  We're not putting that money into that property because they
• 31:20
  don't feel that that property is going to be worth that money at
• 31:24
  the end of the day. So they're just holding, holding
• 31:27
  the thought now, keeping it as it is because they don't want to
• 31:29
  invest the money in it because they think they'll be throwing
• 31:31
  money away because the house probably won't be worth the
• 31:34
  money they are thinking of investing.
• 31:36
  I've got an electrician that came to see me this week and
• 31:39
  he's just laid off 3 workers because the work of the pipeline
• 31:43
  is going down. There's less children coming in
• 31:46
  our schools. It's all it's all a downward
• 31:49
  spiral now, and I think we're in for a very rough ride.
• 31:52
  Do you really? I do.
• 31:53
  Is that Gwyneth or is that? I think, I suppose there's a lot
• 31:57
  of it in general. I mean when you think you can't
• 31:59
  get staff, I mean, I'm sure John can talk about the staff issues.
• 32:04
  You can't get staff. I can remember in the good old
• 32:06
  days, you know, the people used to come on, on, on, on the bath
• 32:10
  and the Warren and things and the, and the, the family all
• 32:13
  would come and all the children would stay all week.
• 32:15
  The parents or the father would go home at the Monday or the the
• 32:19
  the Sunday night rather, and then come back on the Friday.
• 32:23
  And then those young people were here and they were the pot
• 32:26
  washers. They were the people that did
• 32:28
  the jobs for us keeping things going.
• 32:31
  You don't get that you. Know the people that we know
• 32:34
  that are leaving, we don't know the people coming in and they
• 32:39
  don't know us, they don't know our culture and they really that
• 32:43
  appreciate our language either. You know what I mean?
• 32:47
  It is part of our life is our language.
• 32:51
  But to keep our language, we've got to have the work.
• 32:56
  Yes, the work comes through tourism and without the tourism,
• 33:02
  will there be a language? They will.
• 33:04
  Should there will be a language. It's survived so long.
• 33:06
  It will. I can't see where the admin for
• 33:09
  that is. No, no, no, no, no.
• 33:11
  Whether you're you're an exponent of it or a follower of
• 33:14
  it or not, it's, it's it's an unwritten law, isn't it really?
• 33:18
  Yeah, but well, it's it's been a very solitary interview.
• 33:25
  Thank you. Thank you all for coming down.
• 33:27
  I'm going to ask because this is the Dunkers podcast.
• 33:30
  At the end of the day, I think the little birds told me that we
• 33:33
  do have a dunker amongst us. Oh, we do, and I was in the
• 33:37
  water about an hour ago before I get up there.
• 33:43
  I was absolutely, Yeah. So come kings, about one of
• 33:47
  these things that doesn't cost anything other than getting out
• 33:50
  of bed a bit early in the morning and making the beach.
• 33:52
  I have to go with the tide so it depends if it's in so I don't
• 33:55
  have to walk too fast. Right.
• 33:57
  OK. OK.
• 33:58
  So I'm going to ask you because obviously Reese and John are
• 34:02
  either of you regular swimmers, no?
• 34:05
  No, I've got young kids so it's only pre Kelly swimming but.
• 34:09
  Yeah. And that's too cold.
• 34:15
  Cold. What kind of person are we
• 34:18
  breathing here? Years ago, I stayed a lot of
• 34:20
  swimming. I I leave it to other people.
• 34:22
  I mean, you know Kathy that goes swimming.
• 34:24
  I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:25
  Friends with Kathy. Yeah.
• 34:27
  She can do the swimming for me. Yeah, and she, John, let me tell
• 34:31
  you, she's there every single day.
• 34:33
  Yeah. Really.
• 34:34
  So if you could dump with any anybody, who would it be?
• 34:36
  Who would it be? Yeah.
• 34:38
  Who would it be, Mr. Trump? No, I don't know.
• 34:46
  You're quite happy on your own. Well, I'd like to say once
• 34:50
  again, thank you all very much. Indeed.
• 34:53
  I would, I would like to pick this up and sort of see how we
• 34:55
  can get out, you know, what sort of response because I'd
• 34:57
  encourage people to respond to this and give us their own
• 35:00
  feedback. Well, I hope it turns positive.
• 35:04
  You know, we've got a Senate election coming up.
• 35:08
  It's got to be an interesting one.
• 35:09
  Unfortunately, they're putting 30 more members into there at a
• 35:12
  hell of a cuss. They don't see why they need 30
• 35:15
  more members. They don't seem to be doing
• 35:17
  anything for us here anyway. So I hope we get people voting
• 35:23
  for the right. Party, I'm going to hold on to
• 35:25
  that bright note. I hope we get people voting for
• 35:27
  the right party. Thank you, John, and until next
• 35:31
  time, once again, Many thanks. May the dunker's spirit go with
• 35:34
  you. Thank you.
• 35:35
  Thank you.