Latest / The Strength In Numbers Podcast / EP 47: Dave Nedbalek | Lessons from a First Season Leading a Program

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EP 47: Dave Nedbalek | Lessons from a First Season Leading a Program · The Strength In Numbers Podcast

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We just want to be better at making the messes into something
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beautiful at the end and we hope that people succumb to the
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craziness. The players that had the ability
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to utilize skill at speed and make decisions.
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It's still the separator. That idea for me sparked into
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our our polar bear club, which is ice baths and ice cream.
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We do our culture talks. We've got our breakfast club in
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the morning, we have our captains council, we've got our,
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you know, post game WWE belt, our turn, our defensive player
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of the game chain. Like we've got cinder blocks
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painted with our logo for our Blue collar Boy awards.
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Like it's just, it's not magic. It's just consistent things
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applied to where they hear us talk about and emphasize things
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other than basketball and we just spend time together.
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Welcome to the Strength in Numbers podcast.
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I'm your host, John Loom. Today's guest is Dave Nedvalik.
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Dave returns after being one of our very first guests ever on
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the podcast. And that was one of my favorite
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episodes and you definitely should check it out and listen
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to it before this one if you haven't.
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At that time, Dave was actually in the middle of transitioning
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from being a Division One basketball assistant at Oral
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Roberts to becoming the head coach at Tyler Grace Community
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High School. Now in this talk, we're able to
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reflect on his first season, what went well, what didn't,
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where he to grow and he's really humble about it.
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But he did win Co district coach of the year, neither set or tied
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the school record for most wins in a season.
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So there's definitely some things we can learn from him in
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his first year. We also talked about the process
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and importance of building team connection, his takeaways from
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watching all the state tournament games this past week
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and his perspective on goals and approaching being both a coach
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and a dad. If you're getting value from
1:47
these conversations, give the show a follow and leave a
1:49
review. It helps us continue to reach
1:51
and impact more coaches. Let's get into today's episode.
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Dave. It's awesome to get to have it
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on here for the second time. You know, if people haven't
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listened to our first episode, which is one of the the very
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first episodes of this podcast, she definitely go listen.
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That was that was an awesome, awesome talk with Dave here.
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I mean, go get his full bio. But real quick.
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We we work together. Oral Roberts, he was an
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assistant basketball coach there.
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Now he's at Tyler as the head coach in in the high school
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scene now out in East Texas. And you know that there's bio is
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kind of the same as when we tacked last time, but you got to
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add a couple things to there now because you got Co coach of the
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year in the district announced this week along with a pretty,
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pretty big time season with grace this year for your first
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year. Yeah.
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I mean, like I told a couple of my parents that I've talked to,
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I think anytime you see coach of the Year, it's automatically
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indicative that you got pretty good players and you got good
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staff around you. And so, you know, I would say
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I'm pretty bashful about this, but I am grateful that people
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have recognized what we're doing at Grace and recognize it enough
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that they wanted to throw some awards our way.
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I think we tied or broke the record for wins in a season in
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what I was told would be a down year.
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And so just a testament to our guys putting their head down and
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getting after it. It's awesome to see what you did
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this year and we we got to spend a lot of time together this last
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weekend. Friday inside out in Waco for
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state tournament. You know, you were there wanting
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to see where where you want to get the program to where you
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want grace to be eventually, right winning, winning
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championships and you got to watch a lot of basketball, some
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of it really, really good, some of it not as good at all at
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times. Like as you as you look at at
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those games, like what are your biggest takeaways from watching
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that? You know, first time I started
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like, like what do you take from seeing the, the teams that are
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winning it all and like what do you take to grace from that and
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what, what's going to be different from from what you saw
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there? Yeah, I think, you know, we were
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fortunate during our time at ORU that we were obviously a smaller
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school than most of the teams we played outside of conference,
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right? And so the thing that was the
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separator always for us was the skill.
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You know, we had guys that could dribble past shoot and make
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decisions at all 5 positions. And so I think you could clearly
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see that in the state tournament, it's obviously it's
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a microcosm of, of college basketball, but this, the
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players that had the ability to utilize skill at speed and make
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decisions, it's still the separator.
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It's obviously a little bit lessened.
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And so I think you noticed that the teams that had guys that
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could shoot or make decisions at all 5 spots were a lot more of a
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threat. Like I saw a tweet yesterday,
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I'm going to butcher it, but I think the idea is really good
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because like, if I want to get the same result over and over
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over, it's going to require a different constraint each time
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because the environments of athletics, it's constantly
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changing. So even if I want the same
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result, it's not the same tool to execute it.
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And so like, I think a great example is Reese Austin, who,
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you know, at first I had kind of built up in my mind of, you
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know, here's this this stud player and he's nationally
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ranked. And when I worked first watched
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him, I was kind of unimpressed the first time.
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And then after I left that second game, I was like, no, I
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get it. Like he's got the ball in a
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string, he can get anywhere he wants on the court at any given
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time. He can make every pass with both
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hands at speed, off the bounce, stand still.
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He puts the ball in the shooter's pocket like he reads
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the pick and roll. They trapped him, they switched
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him, they hedged him, and it was just like every he.
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That's the thing about great players is they make things look
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simple to where it can almost look like they have quote UN
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quote motor issues or they're not playing super hard and it's
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like, no, they're just dissecting what's happening
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really, really finessely and it makes it look easy.
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And so, yeah, I think I think that was probably my biggest
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take away was the teams that separated were the ones that had
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higher levels of skill. And then I also, you know, I
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went Wednesday and Thursday as well.
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So I watched one through 3 A before we got together.
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And I think you could see at the really the 456A level, those
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teams at the top, they have already mitigated the speed and
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strength curve that those kids are going to face in college.
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Just the the bodies, the twins are a great example, Antoine and
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Armand, just the force with which they can move and execute
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skills. It's kind of impressive to watch
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in person because those guys are are college ready right now.
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And if you could see that in the top levels.
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And so I think the speeding strength, the weight room is a
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big, is a big separator as well. So those were kind of my biggest
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takeaways. Yeah.
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You know, I guess you talk about like being able to have a
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different trying to get the same outcome.
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I remember when I was really getting into the skill
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acquisition piece and, and they would talk about like this one
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study and like you, you usually think, OK, the best people like
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we're thinking about shooting a basketball or, you know, the
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study was in golf, like would have the same, like exact
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pattern to get the same result. But what they found is it was
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like a golf state. It's like the very best people
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had the most variability in how they swung to get the least
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variability in the outcome, which I think what you see with
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like shooting with people like that, it's like they can get
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their shot off and execute in the most ways and still get the
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least variability in the outcome of the ball going in the hoop
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versus OK, it's the exact same shot every time like that.
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That's just not realistic in a in a game environment.
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Well, it's probably how we think about it naturally, too, is
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like, you know, you think about practice drills and the
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structure that we grew up and it's like everyone's in line and
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you catch it and you do the same thing and you put it down and it
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looks the exact same. And it might make us feel good,
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but I'm not sure how much that really translates to the chaos
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of a game where they all of a sudden on that dribble, now
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there's a hand in your way and how do you move your body and
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have any kind of control and, and be able to do what you need
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to do from there. So, so talking about those
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things like, you know, it's great.
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Like obviously we want that stuff like how do you how does
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that impact now you actually getting that at Grace?
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Like what, what do you do to? Build that yeah, I I have to
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really coach my staff well to like put in guard rails for
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myself because, you know, those are those who have seen US play.
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I mean, we, we press every second and, and we run very
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little scripted offense. And so we try to introduce chaos
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into the equation. And sometimes my mind, it still
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goes back to that black and white where it's like, I'm, I
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want to crash out at something And it's like, I mean, it's
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messy. It's going to be messy that the
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kicker is we just want to be better at making the messes into
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something beautiful at the end. And we hope that people succumb
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to the craziness. But I'm, I'm, it's still a
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learning curve for me as well, because it's easy in theory to
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say on paper, when I get my opportunity, this is how I want
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to play. And then all of a sudden you
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watch it and your parents are looking at you like, do you not
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know anything? Dude?
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We're just throwing the ball to the other team.
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Like we're, you know, our middle still teams are shooting threes
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because we're, we're kind of a let it fly situation.
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And they're, you know, one for 30.
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And the parents are like, what are we doing?
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I'm like, I promise there's a vision here, like I promise you
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just got to, you got to kind of embrace the ugliness a little
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bit. And that is definitely a a work
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in progress for me. Yeah, I remember like right when
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y'all were starting the season, maybe had a scrimmage or two or
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maybe just getting in, you're like, I think we might not be
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good at all or like you weren't sure at all and then, you know,
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it turned out pretty good. But yeah, sometimes you don't
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really know, and it doesn't always look pretty at first.
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Yeah, well, I think, you know, we shot 10% in the in the
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scrimmage from three. And I was like, it's not, it's
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not going to be good if we continue this path.
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So yeah, kudos to the guys. They kept working.
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You know, as we as we watch those games and and then now,
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like obviously when you're in college, you recruited and and
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watched a lot of high school kids, but now actually living
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it, seeing those games, seeing it in your day-to-day life for a
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whole year now in your own coaching.
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Like what are your thoughts on the overall state of high school
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basketball and kind of where the games at, what could be better,
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what is really good? Yeah, I think, I think
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obviously, you know, maybe it was Steph Curry that kind of
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broke the the dam here where now I think we saw maybe two true
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post players in this whole deal, the the big from Westbury and
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then the big HUD, which even HUD is is a perimeter skilled guy as
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well. And so like maybe really we saw
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one true low block feed it in and and I know like that style
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has changed a little bit. I thought that was interesting
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of the lack of interior presence.
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Everyone wants to just kind of let it fly.
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But I do think it's cool. And and Parrish is a great
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testament to this. Like we used to always kind of
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think it was just cliche when Mills would say it.
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But like the most connected teams really do find a way to
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win. And I found myself in scouting
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this year, Like I'd watch on the film and a bad call and I would
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see one guy drifting off and the other four team mates with their
11:08
heads down. And I just knew if we press them
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in the third quarter, they will quit.
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Like if you show that that weakness at all, it's like that
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stuff erodes teams and I think Parrish, which was such a great
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example because to me, per my knowledge, maybe them and like
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Waco Live Oak were the only two that I really saw that hell or
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high water good run, bad run, whatever it was.
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Not that y'all at perish endured many bad runs, but those guys
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were connected. And, and again, I sing the the
11:39
twins praises as as much as I can because those dudes are
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connectors and that to me, I didn't see as much of that.
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And I think some of that is the transfer culture.
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I think some of it is the AU culture where kids are just kind
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of they don't have a team. Like I feel like when we were
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kind of like you had you had a team and you played with them
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maybe all elementary and then you play with your school all
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middle school and you play with your school all high school.
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And then, you know, now collegiately and and again, some
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right or wrong, it's just different.
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But I wonder how much of that team leadership component guys
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don't necessarily get just because they're kind of being
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plucked in the new situations constantly.
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Yeah, I was kind of underwhelmed by that.
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Like just the the connectedness of some of those teams that were
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in the state tournament, which is like the pinnacle, which is
12:26
just kind of riding on talent. And unfortunately, you know, we
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always talk about gearing your system to beat the best.
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And I feel like some of those teams unfortunately ran into
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having to pay that bill that they hadn't put in the time for
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as a team and it cost him at the highest stage, which is
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unfortunate. Yeah, You know, we when we
12:45
talked about it a little bit, I think of ideas you had of
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building your connection as a team way back before when you
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were really before you first started with the team.
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How do you think about for your team building that though?
12:56
Like, you know, especially as you talk about what you know,
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maybe people aren't planet so they're jumping around more.
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Like how do you build that deep connection within your team?
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So then those hard moments, they are leaning further into each
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other instead of becoming individuals.
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Yeah, I think obviously super loaded question.
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I do think, I think vulnerability is a is a huge
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component. I think that starts obviously
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you always want to model that as a staff before you just demand
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in our situation, a group of, you know, 14 to 17 year olds to
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just start walking out and and being vulnerable in front of
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their teammates. I think modeling that and then
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giving them space to do that. And then I just think in
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tension, like my buddy Neil Welch is at Weatherford and he
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did a really great podcast with Matt Samon from Jim Modi and he
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shared one idea and it was they call it movies with mom and they
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take their player, their players take their moms on a date and
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with everybody and they go watch a movie.
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And it's like such a simple idea.
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And that idea for me sparked into our our polar bear club,
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which is ice sprouts and ice cream.
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And we do our culture talks. We've got our breakfast club in
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the morning where it's actually more skill than it is food.
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I may have tricked them with that one accidentally, but we
14:12
have our captain's council. We've got our, you know, post
14:14
game BWE belt, our our defensive player of the game chain.
14:19
Like we've got cinder blocks painted with our logo for our
14:21
blue collar boy awards. Like it's just, it's not magic.
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It's just consistent things applied to where they hear us
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talk about and emphasize things other than basketball and we
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just spend time together. You know, we did a team retreat
14:35
this fall and I remember my Ed asking me like, So what are you
14:38
guys doing? I was like, I don't know, we're
14:40
just packing like 30 people into a cabin that has three bedrooms
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and we're going to grill and burn stuff and hang out and like
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it just. So it became some of the most
14:50
special times. But I think those things kind of
14:53
forged us together to where those bonds, just those strands
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just kept getting tighter and tighter and stronger and
15:00
stronger as the year went on. And I don't know, I think some
15:04
people are afraid to give up their time with sports specific
15:07
instruction and I think maybe those things pay dividends.
15:10
Yeah. And like, like you're saying,
15:12
they're like, I think there can be that fear of like I'm going
15:15
to give up practice time for this stuff that maybe is a
15:19
little like, like how do I actually tangibly see that it's
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improving? You know, maybe I can see that
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we're running our offense better.
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I can see that our maybe our shooting percentage is getting
15:30
better. But like, how do I see that our
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connection is is getting better? So it's like, is this, you know,
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I can't see my inputs to do these outputs.
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So it's like, maybe I don't put the inputs in.
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But but I think it's just like anything like like you're
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saying, it's about consistency. It's about consistent
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communication, consistent time devoted, right?
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What you put your time to is what you're going to develop and
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what they're going to see is important.
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So if if you don't spend any time on connection and you just
15:57
say Hey be connected, you know may not go too far.
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But you may never see that your connection improved, but I
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guarantee you'll see it when it's not there.
16:05
And that's unfortunately the moments that you see teams
16:09
fracture and and come apart. I don't know.
16:13
I remember when I was at a previous, I'm not going to this
16:16
is not over you, but a previous school we had a donor that owned
16:20
a car dealership and he was offering to teach all of our
16:22
guys how to change their oil. And we were talking about doing
16:25
it and and the comment was made like, like you've got to work on
16:29
ball screen defense. Like we can't guard a ball
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screen. Like we can't take teach them
16:32
how to do oil. And like it's not, it's not
16:35
about no changing oil make us a better ball screen defense team.
16:40
No, but it's, it's the time span, it's the pouring into like
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the vast majority of those guys, even collegiately, they're going
16:48
to GoPro on something else and forget what we're talking about.
16:50
High school, 1% of them gets a chance to play collegiately.
16:53
So like, as hard as it is, I do have to actively choose.
16:58
Our transition break may not get better today, but we spend time
17:02
pouring into these dudes as men and putting people around them
17:05
that are pouring into them like that.
17:06
That is a that's a win in my book.
17:09
So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:11
I think like you're saying, like, I think there's no doubt
17:14
it's going to impact winning, like people made history, but I
17:17
think there's no doubt it will. But like you're saying that it's
17:19
like, what are we doing this thing for?
17:21
Like what's our purpose as as coaches, especially at the high
17:24
school level, it's got to be about more than just being great
17:27
at ball screen defense and all those things.
17:29
But I definitely don't think it's an either or.
17:31
And I think, you know, the the what drive winning stuff is is
17:35
great when it comes to this. You know, you know me and you
17:37
have talked about a lot of that, but I think one of their books
17:40
is like, you know, building great teams and and things there
17:43
and a lot of stuff that like Gonzaga's basketball team does
17:46
and how they have their weekly stuff doing all all this.
17:49
And you know, I remember he, you know, the guy Brett Ledbetter
17:52
and times the wood drives winning.
17:53
He would consult with Iowa women's basketball back when
17:57
Caitlin Clark was there. And that's pretty freaking cool.
18:00
They've got some team meetings that literally you can go watch
18:03
the whole team meeting when they're having some real
18:05
vulnerable, real, real conversation.
18:07
Tears are coming out. Like real, real stuff coming
18:10
out. Yeah.
18:12
And teams at the highlight, Gonzaga basketball is at the
18:15
highest level. Those teams are devoting a lot
18:17
of time to that because they've realized how important it is.
18:21
I think it may be more important in the transfer culture era
18:24
because again, it's got to be intentional.
18:27
It can't be transactional. It's not like, all right, let's
18:29
get John in a development session because we want to make
18:33
him feel like a part of the team.
18:35
But it's like you got to get people in and it's like the
18:37
treadmill is going and how do you ease people on to that?
18:41
And some of it is like, let's jump in the deep end and figure
18:44
it out. But it's the support systems
18:46
that are willing to go low and slow when you need to.
18:49
I sometimes have to toss my practice plan out the window and
18:52
adjust. And that's the art versus the
18:54
science of coaching. And I think that that's why
18:57
stuff like this is great. It's it's people that are trying
18:59
to to learn and grow and improve and figure out when do we be
19:03
technical and tactical? And when do we just sit and deal
19:06
with people and cancel practice and go play wiffle ball because
19:09
we're struggling with connections, you know?
19:11
Yeah, and you know, you talk about that even made me think
19:16
Rod Olson, who I had as a a a coach in my book and and we did
19:21
an interview for that that book. And he he coaches, coaches,
19:25
forces people for super high level.
19:27
But remember, we were at he's we were talking and he was on the
19:30
way to Colorado State basketball.
19:32
He consulted with them and he's talking about, and this was in
19:35
the summaries like like they've got, he has like a transfer
19:39
tournament. And I think, I think it was like
19:40
transfer integration plan or, you know, something like that.
19:43
Basically like how to like have an actual plan of how we, you
19:47
know, usually basketball, it's all, you know, maybe 3-4 kids
19:50
coming back now, you know, you got a whole new group of
19:53
individuals. How do we make that a team?
19:55
And I think you have to have a plan now because, you know, I
19:58
think, you know, I'm sure we've, we've both seen it on teams.
20:01
You bring in 13 new kids and kind of just hope it.
20:06
Goes well together, hope they fit well together and I, you
20:10
know, I think that's a lot to put your hopes on and, and hope
20:14
that it goes well and not have a a real plan and then a real
20:17
structure to how, how are we going to get this just like
20:20
anything like how are we going to develop the body?
20:22
How are we going to develop this skill?
20:23
How are we going to develop, you know, our, our, our, our, our
20:26
tactical aspects like you got to have a.
20:28
Plan and I think a big adjustment, I mean, for me this
20:32
year has been the idea of giving them, I'm going to tie it into
20:35
basketball, but we'll bring it back.
20:36
But like giving them offensive freedom.
20:38
We're not going to have plays. We're just going to go.
20:40
And I want you to read how you're guarded and read what's
20:43
happening and make decisions. And that freedom was kind of
20:46
paralyzing at first because like I didn't give them the edges in
20:49
the sandbox. But as soon as I gave them just
20:52
simple parameters, not not constrictive ones, but like,
20:56
here's some things we're not going to do.
20:57
Here's some things we're going to do every time that that gave
21:00
them the freedom to then go color inside the lines.
21:03
And I think it's kind of a similar idea if you have the
21:06
edges of the guardrail. Like what matters to me as a
21:08
coach, like whether we're good, bad, awful, like I don't ever
21:12
want to be a part of a team that's not connected.
21:14
So we're going to huddle on every dead ball and it better be
21:16
genuine and we better have all 5 in there.
21:18
We're never going to quit. I don't care if it's 100 to 0 or
21:21
whether we're up 100 to 0. We're not quitting.
21:24
We're playing from buzzer to buzzer.
21:25
And like, so they're just some things to me that are.
21:27
These are the edges of my rails. But within there, like be
21:31
impressive, be creative, have freedom, have ownership.
21:34
And I think that's a piece that maybe I didn't talk about was
21:36
giving guys ownership. Like I struggle with delegating
21:40
to my players because a lot of times it's awkward and they're
21:43
trying to lead and it's clunky and they end up just kind of
21:46
yell and tell and, you know, then I snatch it back.
21:48
So I'm like, well, that sucked. I don't like don't do that.
21:51
But it's like, where do they develop that muscle?
21:53
And we don't ever give them the chance to have ownership and
21:55
lead. And so I'm that's an area I'm
21:58
committed to trying to grow this offseason a little bit.
22:00
Yeah, nothing. I think that's a good point.
22:02
As you were talking about it just made me think of like Jocko
22:06
Williams phrase of like discipline equals freedom where
22:09
like like you said at first, if it's just like complete freedom.
22:13
There's no rules. There's is kind of, you know,
22:15
too much, they're not sure what to do maybe.
22:17
But if you create that discipline, create those
22:19
boundaries, and then and then they learn to have freedom
22:22
within that. And that's where like great
22:24
things can happen. But if it's, you know, kind of
22:26
like you're saying, it's like, hey, be a leader.
22:28
No description or, or, you know, guidance on what that should
22:34
look like, how that should look like.
22:35
Like, you know, I, I don't know what to, you know, especially,
22:38
you know, a younger kid, like, I don't know what that looks like.
22:40
Maybe it'll turn out good, maybe it won't.
22:42
But if you give them some guardrails, some some examples,
22:45
some constraints, and then give them freedom with an ownership
22:48
within that, then they can really take off.
22:50
It's like what our wives say, where do you want to eat
22:52
tonight? I don't know 360° of choices,
22:55
but she's like, hey, if I want a steak, all right, I can give you
22:58
some ideas. It's just that reframing a
23:00
little bit as you look at this, this first season at Grace,
23:05
What? What?
23:06
What are you? Most proud of like what went
23:08
well, more than you maybe thought?
23:10
And what areas are the biggest areas of improvement for next
23:13
year? Yeah, I think stylistically most
23:16
of us that are assistants kind of have the the Super secret
23:20
notebook, like was it from the waterboy?
23:22
The green notebook of this is what I would do if if I got my
23:26
shot and I kind of had made my peace with.
23:29
I really like the idea of everyone says they want to play
23:31
fast, but I want to play fast, like to the umpteenth.
23:36
And so I thought our guys did a great job of just buying into
23:38
our systems. I mean, we went from a very
23:41
numbered break, your 1 Cougar, 2 Cougar, three set play kind of
23:46
deal to like. Now I want you to play musical
23:51
chairs and the second the ball goes through the rim, I want you
23:53
to be nose to nose with the closest person.
23:56
And then on offense, I want you to, if you have the ball on a
23:59
rebound, run and try to go score.
24:01
And if they stop you Kick It Out.
24:03
Like I want to score in four seconds.
24:05
I want them to shoot within four or five seconds.
24:07
Like I just, it was a very, very drastic change and they just
24:11
embraced it and it was really cool.
24:13
We went to one tournament at the beginning of the year and like
24:16
the press just came alive and we took a 5A team to the rope.
24:20
We took another 5A team that ended up like 30 and one on the
24:23
year and went to the state playoffs, like took them to the
24:26
ropes. Like our guys just really,
24:28
really bought in and you know that the old cliche adage of
24:32
like the burn the boats, it really was that like there's no
24:36
other, there's no safety net like we're going.
24:38
And so thought they did an unbelievable job.
24:41
The area that I in reflection that I, I and I just was a
24:44
conscious choice of the time, but like I did sacrifice a lot
24:47
of specific skill work for system implementation.
24:51
I, I kind of felt the crux of year one like God, like I've got
24:54
to get this big picture idea installed, like they've got to
24:57
understand what I'm trying to do.
24:59
And so, you know, we did, we turned it over a bunch.
25:02
Our passing was terrible, but I had to make some conscious
25:05
choices. And so I just thought speed is
25:07
king, let's go. So it was good.
25:09
The the beauty of it was our, our players style, our play
25:13
style kind of became our player development model.
25:15
When, when you're forced to get the ball up to floor in three
25:18
seconds and make a decision like you're, you're going to get some
25:21
skill work in. Now, whether it's exposing,
25:23
whether it's developing, that's, that's to be determined.
25:27
I think as a coach on the instructional side, I, I want to
25:31
be better about my buddy. Saint Albert has a really,
25:35
really good video on his Twitter of him teaching at APDPGC
25:39
session where he talks about describing the storm versus
25:42
navigating the storm. You know, the coaches that call
25:45
timeouts and they're like, you got a box out and like they're
25:47
just kind of crashing out versus the guys that are giving
25:51
instruction and actionable feedback.
25:53
I feel like I got baited into describing the storm more than I
25:57
really cared to. You know, I want guys to leave
26:00
the huddle with an actionable piece of of information.
26:03
And sometimes I, you know, we're coming out of huddles and we
26:05
don't have a play ready just because I decided I wanted to
26:08
yell at my guards about not rebounding.
26:09
Now, that may happen. Yeah.
26:11
But yeah, I want to. I want to be better there.
26:14
Just the journey of becoming a master teacher.
26:17
Like if people are listening to my huddles, I don't want them to
26:19
be embarrassed with what's being said.
26:21
I don't want there to be questions of like, well, maybe
26:23
you shouldn't, you know, talk like that to the kids.
26:25
And then obviously nothing I've seen.
26:27
But just I want them to, if a person came out of the stands
26:31
objectively and just listen to my huddle that they're like, no,
26:34
he just is a great teacher. And so, yeah, that's kind of my
26:37
high, low girl there. Yeah, yeah, I know.
26:40
I like it. When you talk about the skill
26:42
development piece, what does that maybe look like going into
26:46
this next year and like like how do how do you feel that looks
26:49
differently between or like you were the player development
26:52
coach at or you and the college level?
26:54
How does skill development scale and look different working with
26:58
high school level athletes versus college level athletes
27:01
for you? Yeah, I have to make the
27:02
assumption that what's done in my practice will be the only
27:05
thing that's done. We're working on improving the
27:08
culture of work. But in college, you know, I
27:10
would have every guy most days for skill sessions or have them
27:14
in with Aga with a prescribed plan.
27:18
And so they would get skill work in addition to teamwork and
27:22
practice. And so now I'm having to, and I
27:25
think This is why it was such a challenge for me is because I'm
27:27
not used to marrying those two ideas.
27:29
Now I do think, I think the best teaching can be done in those
27:34
spaces. And this is where like the
27:35
constraints LED approach and kind of the small side of games,
27:38
this is where I've not quite spent enough time fully just
27:43
integrating into that because I think those accomplished both.
27:48
But yeah, I've got, I've got a structure my, my practices to
27:52
where they're getting better. We're going to play enough games
27:55
with, you know, 36 games with tournaments.
27:58
They're going to play enough games that the team stuff will
28:01
will really be forged in that November section where we play
28:04
like back-to-back to back tournaments.
28:06
And so we're getting 20 games and three weeks.
28:09
I have to trust that that's going to do some of the team
28:12
forging. And I've got to really, really
28:14
make a commitment to like, we're going to dribble past you, make
28:17
decisions and defend exclusively in practice.
28:20
Yeah. So that's my big adjustment is
28:23
finding the time. Yeah, no, it's it's definitely
28:26
hard when you know, like you're saying in in college you can a
28:32
lot so, so many different hours to so many different things.
28:36
And then, you know, now as we talk, OK, we got to spend time
28:39
on team and culture development. We got to spend time on skill
28:43
development and, you know, team tactical development.
28:47
It's like, you know, the parents are going to start emailing if
28:49
you keep them there too late now at high school levels.
28:51
So, you know, how do how do we how do we divide that out
28:55
without, you know, not getting anything out of in it, you know,
28:58
chasing too many rabbits and not really not really getting a
29:02
potent enough stimulus to to develop in any of them, but
29:06
still getting the most of what we need.
29:07
And then I think, I mean, I think that develops you as a
29:11
coach a lot because it's like, you know, if you got all the
29:13
hours in the world, you can waste a lot of time.
29:15
But if you're really constrained to, OK, I've got two 2 1/2 hours
29:19
a day to do everything I've got to get really good understanding
29:22
what my return on investments are from every single drill,
29:26
every single minute. And how I'm really also teaching
29:31
that. Like you're talking about being
29:32
a master teacher. How do I best teach that?
29:34
How do I best structure that where we are getting the most we
29:38
can from every minute of this practice plan?
29:40
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's you nailed it.
29:42
You nailed it. You know, as, as as you've as
29:46
you go back, go back to when we had the the first conversation,
29:49
you're really you you really like just move to Tyler before
29:52
you're starting this job. What's been what's been maybe
29:55
different than what your expectation was moving from that
29:59
college level back to this high school level and and and, you
30:03
know, basketball, but also just life of like what what that life
30:07
looks like for you different than the college coaching career
30:11
to the high school coaching daily life.
30:13
Yeah. Well, I think the same time
30:15
constraints that you just talked about, or it's, it's my
30:18
day-to-day because I'm actually, I feel like I'm busier than
30:22
before, which was surprising to me.
30:26
I made this change from college. I want to be more present,
30:29
father, and just slow down and simplify and kind of get off the
30:33
hamster wheel for a minute. And then I feel like, whoa, holy
30:36
cow. Like I have less time because
30:39
you know, when you look at it, I've got my varsity, I've got JV
30:42
blue, I've got JV white, I've got eighth, I've got seventh.
30:45
I've got a Youth League. And not to mention that I teach
30:49
all day. And so I have less time in terms
30:54
of just overall hours I am traveling less, which I think is
30:58
big. Yeah.
30:59
It's, it's that part kind of surprised me, I think.
31:02
I thought, I think in my mind, I'm like, you know, picturing
31:05
like armchair on the beach, you know, just hanging out for a
31:09
line. Just, all right, I'll go to
31:11
practice, you know, dismiss all this free time.
31:13
And I'm not sure where that perception came from.
31:18
You know, we used to always joke in college that it was like 1%
31:20
basketball and 99% just other duties as assigned.
31:25
But the beautiful thing here and probably my favorite part that's
31:28
been a surprise to me is that everything that I choose to do
31:32
with my time is a direct improvement of my program.
31:36
So if I choose to spend time doing Polar Bear club or
31:40
breakfast club or or Captain's council or we got a program that
31:44
ended up being really cool. We call it our CIT.
31:46
It's our Cougars in training and it's anyone from 4th to 8th
31:49
graders and they're basic. They call themselves water boys.
31:52
But what they really are is their front seat to our culture
31:55
of like you're getting, you're getting a taste of cougar
31:59
basketball and they love it. Like they're nuts back there.
32:02
They Jackie pants and polos and like in every picture we have of
32:06
our bench, they're just going crazy and it's the highlight of
32:09
their years. And their parents are all
32:10
e-mail. And so it's like all these
32:12
things that we're choosing to do are making Grace better.
32:15
They're making our program better.
32:17
They're making our players better.
32:18
I hope they're making me better. It's making my family better.
32:21
And so that part is cool. Whereas before, you know, as a
32:25
support staff in college, you end up, you end up doing a lot
32:28
of the ground work, you know, Hey, can you sort through 4000
32:32
clips of ball screen defense and find me 5 good hedge clips?
32:35
And then it's like, oh, we're not showing that project that I
32:38
stayed up all night to work on a lot of those kind of things.
32:42
And so here I, I, you know, I have the freedom to choose what
32:45
those things are. And so I'm able to choose a
32:47
little bit more intentionally. And, but it's been great.
32:50
I mean, I'm, my family's more integrated.
32:53
Like I was joking with somebody yesterday.
32:54
If I were still at ORU, I would be in South Dakota right now,
32:58
you know, missing Trey's birthday, which was yesterday.
33:00
And so here, what do I do on Trey's birthday?
33:03
We break him out of daycare at noon and my wife brings him to
33:06
my last three PE classes. And I watch my son run around
33:09
the gym with kids that are just going nuts and so excited to see
33:12
him. And it's like that's that's the
33:14
difference as the control just at this phase in my life, I'm
33:17
just less motivated by maybe some of the career things that
33:21
had driven me before and really enjoying the season that we're
33:24
in so long winded, but. Yeah.
33:26
And I love it. You know, as you talk about like
33:29
that, that CIT program we have for kind of that younger
33:34
generation coming up at at your school, I think that's really
33:37
cool. And you know, I did.
33:39
I wanted to ask you about that. Like especially Grace as it
33:42
gives Grace K through 12. Yes, it's two different
33:45
campuses. So on our campus we have 5th
33:49
through 12th and then Trey's campuses, the daycare through
33:53
4th. Yeah, so I mean, even if even if
33:56
we're just talking about the the the 5th through 12th, it's like
33:59
how you know, as obviously, I'm sure prior to number one, this
34:03
year's like maybe let's get the high school program.
34:05
But it's also thinking about how do we start building that next
34:09
generation. Those those ones that are going
34:10
to be 7 in the middle school, middle school to high school.
34:13
How do we how do we start building that long term program
34:16
for them, but also like to want them to stay at grades versus
34:20
maybe going to, you know, a public school or going to
34:24
another private school in the area.
34:26
And I, you know, I think that's really cool where, you know,
34:28
with the with that permanent, it's like, OK, now, like
34:32
they're, they're building these role models and kind of these
34:36
heroes in their mind of, of OK, you know, this whatever senior
34:41
like, you know, you know, that really impacts them.
34:44
Like, I want to be like that kid, like I want to be a, you
34:47
know, a varsity player, like him doing the things he's doing
34:52
because now they have this role model there and they're getting
34:54
to be around the team. And like, I feel like that makes
34:56
it so much more likely that they're going to want to stay
34:58
versus trying to go find somewhere else.
35:00
And, you know, that's, you know, like Paris, like they've got
35:03
like these like second and third grade teams that all year,
35:06
Armand, Antoine and one of our other kids, they would coach
35:09
those teams. They'd actually miss lifts on
35:11
Wednesday and we'd make it up some other time, but they would
35:13
coach those team before practice every day.
35:15
And Oh my gosh, like those little kids love all of our
35:17
basketball players and, and want to be part of that so much.
35:20
I just feel like especially like, like we've talked on this
35:23
age of people wanting to jump from school to school, like if
35:26
you can build that in, like it's, it's making them want to
35:29
be there so much more. Are there any other ways that
35:32
you feel like you're kind of trying to push that of like what
35:35
you're building, whether it's from a development standpoint or
35:38
also just a connection standpoint of how you're you're
35:42
building your long term team? Yeah, that's a great question to
35:45
it. We just finished our kind of, we
35:47
call it a Youth League and it's got grace teams.
35:50
We also play Gorman and All Saints.
35:52
And so I think we're kind of in the process now of evaluating,
35:57
you know, can we do, can we offer a little bit more because
36:00
that's kind of more of a wide net.
36:02
Any kid that wants to sign up can, can we offer something
36:05
where, you know, they're coached by me a little bit and it's our
36:10
select best 4th and 5th best, you know, 5th and 6th, some some
36:14
kind of combination of that. So we're trying to do some of
36:17
those things, but you know, just this is this is a constant need
36:22
for us. It's like, how do we integrate
36:24
and connect? Because, you know, we've got our
36:26
4 high school teams, which is great, but not all of them get
36:30
FaceTime with me. And so trying to figure out what
36:33
those, those avenues look like. If again, we go back to time, I
36:38
could probably make all these practices, you know, and then
36:41
kiss my son on the head because he'll be smooth asleep by the
36:44
time I see him. And so that, you know, that's
36:45
not it may be sustainable and good for grace, but is that
36:49
what's best for our family, family?
36:50
And so trying to prioritize some of those things.
36:53
And in the one thing I will say that not to like get super
36:56
religious with it, but I also really believe and my buddy
37:00
Aaron from Florida Atlantic always shares for me the verse
37:03
from Psalms. It's like, unless the Lord
37:04
builds it, he who laborers, laborers in vain.
37:06
And so part of me, I have to choose to trust that I'm going
37:10
to put my hands to the plow every day and I'm going to get
37:12
after it, but I'm also going to protect the things that matter
37:15
most to me. And I hope that the Lord will
37:17
bless my efforts and multiply those farther than where I can
37:20
can physically be, because the reality is you, we can't be in
37:24
all those places. And so yeah, that's I, I think I
37:27
anti answered your question actually with that.
37:29
No, I love it. You know what?
37:32
I want to talk about goals, and that's something I kind of go
37:34
back and forth with sometimes. You know, there's people that
37:40
talk about having, you know, SMART goals, habits, very
37:42
specific, miserable. You know, in three years we're
37:45
going to do X, I'm going to have XY and Z, you know, whatever it
37:49
is. I feel like there's also people
37:52
that it's like I'm going to, I'm going to operate the highest
37:55
level each day, kind of attack these things that are in front
37:58
of me. And yeah, like I think about the
37:59
future and but I'm kind of constantly updating what I want
38:03
that future to look like and more so allowing my present
38:07
decisions to impact where my kind of long term outcomes are.
38:11
Yeah. Like where, where do you fall
38:12
kind of between that of having like measurable objective goals
38:16
that you're attacking versus just attacking the process and
38:20
allowing the goals to be a result of that?
38:23
Yes, yeah, no, I think I think like somewhere right in the
38:27
middle of that, you know, I think there's there's obviously
38:31
you think about some long term planning because I do think like
38:33
without vision, you know, I felt really convicted.
38:36
Actually, I was reading Tim's section, the book the other day
38:38
and he talked about how when he gets to a program, he wants to
38:41
assess and he took a year to get them to wear practice shirts.
38:44
And I'm like, flashback into me and I'm like, the first time I
38:47
met these kids was my culture presentation of what I'm going
38:50
to do in the locker room. I'm like, I hammered them the
38:53
second I got there, You know, it's like, I don't know that
38:56
there's right or wrong. I know, I think, I think vision
38:59
is contagious. And so I think the big long
39:02
term, you know, the B hags, the big hairy audacious goal, like
39:05
the the high hard ridgeline that we're going at.
39:07
I think you have to put that on a board somewhere and you know,
39:11
throw darts at it. And but I do think you have
39:13
those times where you check in of like, well, how are we, you
39:18
know, how are we doing towards that?
39:20
But the one thing that I think is the kicker is it's people
39:25
because so many times when I got into time blocking, really big
39:28
shout out Tim Ferriss that thanks, because he just made me
39:31
steamroll people all day because I'm like, look, from 6:48 to
39:35
seven O 5, I'm having coffee and reading.
39:39
And so when the kid comes in my office and his mom just got
39:41
diagnosed with breast cancer and I'm like, well, I love you, but
39:45
like, this is my time block to read all of a sudden, like my
39:48
goals and my, my systems just made me like speed bump right
39:52
over people. And so like, yeah, like
39:56
hopefully that that lands of like it is somewhere in the
39:59
middle. And I try to be, I try to have a
40:02
big long term vision. We've got a great school in our
40:05
area. You're familiar with Martins
40:06
Mill. And then they just turn in,
40:08
they're turning out state championships and they do it
40:10
incredibly well. And their kids are super
40:12
respectful and they're all super high academic, they're high
40:15
character, they're elite athlete.
40:17
And it's like, yes, Grace in 10 years, why can't we be that?
40:20
But in the meantime, like, what do I do with little Johnny that?
40:24
Puts his shoes on the wrong feet and can't make a layup.
40:27
If I give him a hundred tries, like does that kid get
40:29
steamrolled? Because I have this vision of
40:31
becoming something greater? Like, how do I, how do I
40:34
navigate and handle people? And I think, man, that's hard
40:38
because a lot of the business world is like, cut the brake
40:40
lines, floor it and just go. And if you get caught in the
40:43
way, you get caught in the way there is some validity to like
40:47
going there. And we want you to go with us
40:50
and we may drag you for a little while because you're you can
40:53
legs aren't quite walking like. But at the end of the journey,
40:56
he'll be better for it. And so I think you just have to,
40:59
it's such a balance. It is such a balance.
41:01
But I think they're constantly in tension with each other.
41:04
But if I were to say I had to choose one or the other, I would
41:07
always choose on how am I treating, loving and serving
41:11
people and if those goals can be accomplished while I'm doing
41:15
those in a way that I feel like is is honoring to the Lord,
41:18
great. If not, man, I got some hard
41:21
choices to make with my vision and my goals.
41:23
So hopefully that's the direction you were asking.
41:26
That's how it hit me. Yeah, no, no, I really love that
41:28
answer. And yeah, I think it's like, I
41:30
think it's like you're saying, I think it's great to have, OK,
41:33
this is where we want to be. But if you allow that chase for
41:37
whatever that goal you set to determine how you act, how you
41:44
people you know and, and basically do anything to get
41:48
that point, whether it is, you know, not not loving and
41:51
treating people or reporting to people the way you need to, then
41:54
that goal is, is really antithesis to really what your
41:58
mission probably is. I'll give you a great sorry, go
42:02
ahead. No, Yeah, you got it, You got
42:03
it. I think a great example is when
42:05
I was at UT Tyler, I started as a volunteer and my whole goal,
42:08
my whole vision was I want to be the best young recruiter in
42:11
Texas. And that was my MO.
42:13
Everything went into it. My boss was fortunate.
42:16
I was fortunate. Like he let me get a rental car
42:17
every night. I would go recruit every single
42:19
night because you know, in Texas you can pick a gym anywhere in
42:22
the state and go and you can recruit.
42:24
And so I was getting after it. I was working all day, I was
42:27
working all morning at UPSI would go to to school, I would
42:32
practice, get a rental car, go recruit, come home, rinse and
42:35
repeat. And I remember coming home one
42:37
time and my wife was just looking.
42:39
This is after months and I was newly married and my wife just
42:42
looked at me and she's like, I didn't sign up to just like be
42:46
single when I'm so gracious. There's so many people in
42:49
college coaching that are either divorced or or remarried and
42:53
having to learn those lessons the hard way.
42:55
I'm so gracious that my wife was willing to confront like, what
42:59
are we doing here? But in my mind, like the way I
43:03
love my wife was I went and got after it because I was going to
43:06
turn this into a better job. And I was going to get some big
43:09
Division One job. And I was just going to grind
43:11
and go get it and, and create this life for her that that
43:14
neither of us could ever dream of.
43:15
And like, I realized I was leaving her in the dust.
43:18
And she was like, I yeah, this is not it.
43:21
And so I had to recalibrate. And that has been a form of like
43:25
a shaping fork in the road moment for me.
43:28
If like, I don't know what my career holds.
43:31
I don't know if college is back in the equation down the road.
43:33
I have no idea. But I know I want her and Trey
43:37
as primary in my life. And by the time this comes out,
43:40
people will know that Riley's on her way here.
43:42
And I want those 3 to be priority in my life always over
43:48
any job. Because the we'll talk about
43:50
that later with your, with your parenting questions.
43:53
Well. Let's let's get into that.
43:55
You know, yesterday marked two years of being a dad for you,
43:59
right? Yeah, that's, you know, couple
44:01
months away from me. Like what advice would you have
44:04
for me as I'm stepping into that, especially as we're
44:08
coaching? Like you're talking about like,
44:09
obviously, no matter what level you're at, like you're saying
44:12
you kind of expectation of the high school, like no, what level
44:14
you're at, like it's going to, it takes a lot of time and
44:17
commitment to be really good. At the same time.
44:20
We got to be, you know, great fathers and and husbands.
44:23
How do we, how do we do both of those things?
44:25
And, and what, what should I be thinking about as I'm about to
44:28
step into those, those shoes of, of being a?
44:31
Dad, Yeah, well, it was really hard for me because the second I
44:34
held Trey, I I was a Division One assistant, which was one
44:37
step away from my dream. And I held my son and looked at
44:40
my wife. I was like, I think we're in
44:42
trouble because I just everything just reshaped in an
44:46
instant. Here's the here's the one thing
44:48
that I've learned in two years. The only job in my life that I
44:51
cannot be replaced at tomorrow is is with those two.
44:53
I could I could win A state championship at grace to get
44:56
fired the next day. They'd have a coach in within
44:58
the month. My phone hasn't stopped ringing
45:01
for two days because UT Tyler just opened.
45:03
Like it's just jobs come and go. And I know that, like I know
45:08
that I don't think I know it yet, that that sinking that foot
45:12
distance from from brain to heart is hard for me because I
45:15
will work my tail off at my job and, and sometimes just be so
45:20
subpar here because I'm I'm tired and mentally tired.
45:24
And it's like, man, I just want to give them my best.
45:26
And I think it's Buzz Williams just says like he wants to be
45:28
famous in his own home. And I don't know what that looks
45:33
like. I'm trying, you know, it's just
45:35
a simple stuff like, can I, can I leave my phone?
45:38
Can I take 30 seconds in the car and recalibrate?
45:40
Like they haven't seen me all day.
45:42
This is the first time they're seeing me.
45:43
So like, whatever version of 5th grade PE, tired, worn out,
45:47
stressed, angry, mad, lost a game, nervous about this,
45:50
whatever it is. Like I got to leave all that
45:52
because one, Trey doesn't care. He's an animal right now.
45:54
Like he's, he's trying to get into WWE right off the RIP and
45:58
he doesn't care about some game. And so how can I just be
46:03
present? And that's been hard.
46:05
That's been the biggest challenge.
46:07
And so I to me, that's the guardrail.
46:09
Like I can't be replaced here. So if excellence in my job
46:14
requires me to not be able to be what I want to be for them, then
46:18
it's time for my job to change. And I'm grateful now that I'm in
46:21
a situation where I do feel like I can integrate them.
46:23
And my son tries to sub himself into every game that we have at
46:27
Grace from the bleachers. He's like ball, ball, ball.
46:30
And he's like trying to get in the sideline.
46:33
He's like, it's my time to get to it.
46:35
But like, seeing my players hold him and seeing him in the locker
46:38
room and he's chasing a basketball around.
46:41
And it's like, yeah, like, this is the vision that our family.
46:43
And luckily, my wife's a Hooper too, so she gets it.
46:46
The man. I feel like if you don't put
46:48
that stake in the ground of like, I, they can never have
46:52
another me, even if, you know, God forbid something ever
46:54
happened to me. And like, that's still not
46:57
Trey's dad. If there's somebody new in the
46:59
picture, like, you know, I can never be replaced in that role.
47:02
And so how do I, how do I maximize that first?
47:05
Yeah, I love it, Dave. And and I was I was getting to
47:08
talk to you is is always, always gets me thinking always is, you
47:13
know, just just super impactful. And this has been no exception.
47:17
It's been awesome conversation kind of wide-ranging, little
47:20
more informal than normal maybe, but I think really, really good.
47:23
And then lots of great thoughts across lots of lot of different
47:26
ideas. So man, I appreciate you coming
47:28
on and doing this again. Second second two time guest
47:31
here on the podcast. Appreciate you.
47:33
I guess that means I didn't do anything in the first one to get
47:35
me on the no fly list. Yeah.
47:38
We, it's, it's kind of the opposite of what we talked about
47:41
their time for practice now in high school.
47:43
We, we can use as much time as we need if we have a low, low
47:47
return on investment, I guess. So we'll have to get a couple
47:49
more of these in the next couple weeks.
47:50
I love it. I love it.
47:52
Well, I appreciate you man. And again, it's likewise, it's
47:55
always encouraging and selfishly, I'm like, how can I
47:58
get the best people in my boat and around me as I navigate live
48:04
from fatherhood? And so you're one of those ones.
48:06
I appreciate you man. Yeah, I appreciate you too.
48:10
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