Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Emma. (2020)

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Emma. (2020) · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: my name is Kaitlin Durante, and this is our show
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. That's Stan Ray.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of it? I haven't heard of it,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: which is really embarrassing at this point. I don't and
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I've been bluffing my way for over half a decade now. Yeah,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: we've been doing the show for six years, James, really
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: really a long time. It is March, which means it's
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: International Women's History Month. I honestly don't know why international
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: has to be like specified, because if you eliminate it,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the meaning is much the same. But anyways, true, we
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: wanted to make sure we were featuring women directors this month, obviously,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and we had in the works an episode on The
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Women King that we'll be coming out, but it won't
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: be coming out until April because of a bunch of
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: scheduling stuff, so we wanted to make sure we were
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: featuring women directors this month. Yeah, and that is why
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: this week we are unlocking a Patreon aka Matreon episode
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that I'm rather proud of. Honestly, we did so much
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: homework for this one, and by that I mean we
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: read a book. But for a movie podcast reading a book,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: it's not easy. Extra credit. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: and reading is hard. No, but yes, this is part
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: of our Matreon theme January aka Austin August aka Jane
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Austen month. Yes on the Matreon. We did it. Last
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: year we also covered the Joe Wright Pride and Prejudice
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: adaptation with Kiera Knightley and Tom from Succession. However, Joe
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Wright is famously a man, so he doesn't qualify it
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: for this and so what we are unlocking is the
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty adaptation of Emma starring Annya Taylor Jolie that's
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: directed by Autumn deWilde, also written by a woman, Eleanor Katon,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: which we will discuss in the episode as well, but
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: too great in my opinion, too great. Jane Austen adaptations.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Is it and is it? Clueless grade greatness? Nothing is
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: that's the best adaptation of Emma. However, this is my
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: second favorite and we really enjoyed the movie and we
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: think that you will too. If you haven't seen it,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: should check it out. Yeah, go watch it? She wi
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: is what are you doing? Also, one other quick housekeeping thing.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: If if you are listening to us for the first
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: time right now because you found us through Apple Podcasts, Welcome,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: We're the back too. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hi. We're being
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: featured on Apple Podcasts this month. We're highlighted as featured creators.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So if you happen to find us through the podcast
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: search feature, Welcome. We've been around for a while. We've
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: been doing the show forever six years now, and we
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoy the show. We've been you know, learning, growing,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: and watching a shitload of movies for a long time.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: It's true. It's all true. It's all true. So welcome.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: If you're new, Welcome back. If you've been with us
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: for a long time, Welcome medium. If you came kind
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: of recently, but you're like, well, I'm not new. There.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: It's a spectrum. Listening to something like well, I'm not new,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't say I'm old. Well guess what, there's
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: not a word for that. But you're welcome there. Yes,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: we we appreciate you. We appreciate everyone who's listening right now. Also,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this. If you enjoyed this episode, feel
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: free to check out our patreon akamatreon at patreon dot
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: com slash Beechdel Cast. You'll notice the discussions are a
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: little looser, a little goofier, and normally we have a
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: guest on our main feed, but on the Patreon it's
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it's just Caitlin and myself shooting the shit and having
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: a nice time. So we hope you enjoy it. Yeah,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: just to foreshadow a little something on this episode is
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: how much we talk about Pokemon. Really yeah, all right,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Well look we were still somewhat locked down when we
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: recorded this, so you may notice that energy present in
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: whatever's going on, all right Pokemon? Fine, yeah, fine, it's
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: not against the lull noise, So please please enjoy this
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: unlocked episode of Emma twenty twenty. Okay, it's still January
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: aka Austin August aka Jane Austen November. Yes it is,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: and we are closing it out with an episode on
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Emma Period. I did not know at first that this
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: movie has punctuation. Unnecessary punctuation. Oh in the title, I know.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Did you read the reason why too? It's pretty corny.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, I believe it's autumn. deWilde was like,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: it's a period piece, so I put it was like,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that's kind of funny. It also in any times the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: director of this movie. I was such a pleasure getting
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: like acquainted with her as a person and an idea
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: because I'm like now fully like just like I will
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: go wherever she takes us forever, like she's so cool.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: But yeah, because I because maybe it was an interview
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I was reading with her, but yeah, there's a period
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: in it, because she's like at the period beast put
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a period at the end. Wow, I'm like, well, of
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: all the reasons to do that, that is at least
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a pretty funny reason, I allow it. Yeah, right, okay, right, okay.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: So we're covering Emma Period from twenty twenty. It's one
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of the last movies that was released in theaters before
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen pandemic. Ever heard of it? I remember
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: I almost saw it and then I didn't, and then
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I experienced regrets. You know what I saw it? What
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I see instead? Oh you know what I saw Invisible Man?
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: And yeah, same portrait of a lady on fire. It
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't too you know, I could have done much worse.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I liked both of those movies. Yeah. One of the
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: last movies I saw in theaters pre pandemic was Oh,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: my gosh, what's it called. It's the Pixar movie about
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the like fairy tale creature people onwards. Oh, the one
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: with the Chris Pratt pants Dad Dad pants, My dad
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: is pants and I'm Chris Pratt right, Yeah, it's just
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: what the fuck was that movie? There's gonna be a
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: million people at the comments like that movie changed my life,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure, I'm sure it's great, but I only
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: know that movie is like Chris Pratt's Dad is pants.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: You're like, I just like, I'm sure that. Like most
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Pixar movies are very heartwarming, this one did make me cry.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, I mean all, like most Pixar movies, that's
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: like what they're genetically engineered to do. I just like
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: the way this one was marketed specifically. I just thought
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: was so weird. I was like, I don't want to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: see the Chris Pratt pants Dad movie, and I reserved
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: that right and I and you know, maybe I'll see it.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I think, did you hear a glass shatter? Am? I? Like?
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Just now? No? No, things aren't at all? All is
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: not well? There? You know a Stabruary is really bringing
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: out in me? Is I want we should go back
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: to like naming our houses. I know that it's because
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: no one owns property and all these all these books
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: are about rich, but even like middle class families name
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: their house in Jane Austin World, which is also like
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that just happened. Yeah, I didn't realize that
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: was a thing. I mean, I guess I knew from
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: like Downton Abbey because their huge mansion is called Downton Abbey.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: And then there's like I was like, what's it called?
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I was like, what's the house called? But then, um,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: mister Knightley and this story has an abbey as well.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: I forget what his abbey is called. What constitutes an abbey?
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Like what I don't When you say abbey, I feel
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: like it means like extra big, but like I'm sure
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: it means something specifically, like there's a mill, or there's
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: like a church, or there's a fawm or something. Right,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: what's the difference between like an estate and an abbey
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: and a palace and a castle, because all of these
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: structures are big. So I don't know what's what bing bong,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, I'm no fucking clue he's
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: gotten an abbey. I just this, Okay, yeah, so I'm
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: going to start thinking of place. You know. I like
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: that they name the houses, but all the ways that
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: they name the houses stuck. They're like it's like corn
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: wall and you're like, okay, that's just a compound word.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Let's just work on it, because look,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: we're never going to own any but I'll you know,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I'll name my half of the duplex that I read. Sure,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: I'll name that. Why not until I'm evicted any day now,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: I hope not. Well, no, my whatever, But you know
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: they can. I'm on a month to month lease. They
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: can just they try it. Do you remember matrons over
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the summer of my landlords are like, we're going to
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: sell the house and you'll just kind of be shit
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: out of luck. But like, we don't know when but
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: you could be shit out of luck at any second, right,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, and then they failed to
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: sell the house. Okay, so well I have a home
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: good news for you for now. Just I don't know
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: landlords should just fucking explode in Minecraft, of course, which
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: I know is something that you have to say. Um, well,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: we're talking about more rich people from England today because
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: we're talking about Jane Austen's Emma period period. Yeah, okay,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: we're not talking about Gwyneth Paltrow. Did you watch Gwyneth Paltrow?
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: You watch you rewatched Clueless? Right, correct? And I really
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: thought about watching for the first time because I hadn't
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: seen Gwyneth Paltrow's Emma So I was like, yeah, I
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: should watch that just in case it's helpful. But what
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: did I do instead is play Pokemon? Okay, So well, yeah, matrons,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: we're working really hard for your five dollars over here.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, Kate like you've in my defense, yeah, it's
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: for my mental health. That's not a good excuse. I
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: think it's a great excuse for my mental health. I
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: have to play Pokemon for eighty five hours there is Yeah, sorry,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling spicy today. It's good. Um Okay. I saw
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow. Gwyneth Paltrow Emma. Back in the day, we
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: were talking about this with the Pride and Prejudice episode
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: where it was like, oh, there was like gen X
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Pride and Prejudice, and then Kiera Knightley is millennial Pride
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: and Prejudice. There's kind of not a millennial Emma. I
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: think that they did gen X was Gwyneth and then
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: this is fully gen z Emma. This is not this
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: does not belong to us, but we're allowed to enjoy
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: it and look at it. But like Anya Taylor Joy,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: she belongs to them. She does not belonged to us,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: just because she's so young. Yeah, and just like the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: aesthetic of this movie. I mean, this movie is so esthetic,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: it's beautiful. Yeah. Anyways, this is gen Z Emma period
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and I really like it. What is your experience with
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: the story, Emma in general? Not much. I had seen
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Clueless a few times. Oh yes, but I don't think
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I knew the first few times I watched Clueless that
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: it was a Jane Austen adaptation. I definitely didn't the
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: first Yeah, I don't think I knew that until like
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: at least college, right, But I haven't read the book
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and I haven't seen the Gwyneth Paltrow Emma. Yeah, so
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: this is my first exposure to this story. I've seen
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: it three times now between I had some time between
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: my Pokemon Pokemon hours that I was putting in to
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: watch Emma three times, so I did that. But yeah,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I did not read the book for this one. I
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: read Pride and Prejudice, so I filled my book quota
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: of reading one book per year. So I don't have
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: much exposure to Emma. But Jamie, you did read the book.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Reread the book. I reread the book, and by that
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, of course I listened to the audio book
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: at one point five speed. And yeah, I guess I'm
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: like fully too much Emma this week for old Jamie.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Too much. But I'm glad I read the book because
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: because the changes of the movie makes is really really
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: really interesting to me. But like I saw Clueless starting
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: in high school, didn't know that it was Jane Austen adaptation,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: so it's almost like it doesn't really even count in
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: my brain. Sure, And also Clueless is so different in
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of ways, you know, and I would say
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: many better ways. But I read the book in high school.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I saw the Gwyneth Paltrow movie in high school. I
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: think I liked it, I don't really remember. And then
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I was I think this has also been like you know,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: miniseries did and all this stuff. But I was really
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: excited for the twenty twenty Emma period because it was,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you know, an adaptation that was directed by a woman.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: It just looked really I don't know, like you know,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I was just genuinely excited to see it because sometimes
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: you're like, this movie just looks beautiful, like it just looks, yeah, delicious,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and I want to watch it. And it was, you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: like written and directed by women. I like Anya Taylor
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Joy who. I feel like this was like this movie
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: came out like right before she popped off, because this
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: was pre Chess Netflix. Am I talking about Queen scam Bit. Yes,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Chess Netflix. That's so funny. I feel like I should
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: be dating a guy named Chess Netflix. Oh my gosh,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: that's a great character. Please write something. Yeah, Chess Netflix.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: It's like my new rich boyfriend. I'm like, guys, this
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: is Chess Chess Netflix. We met at a party. I
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: don't know. He just slid into my dams and now
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: it's been four months. Congrats. Speaking of mister Chess, Emma
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: or mister Netflix, I guess Emma actually hooked us up.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: She she does these things sometimes, she's a matchmaker like that.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I'm her Harriet, and she hooked me up with Chess Netflix.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: He's awful. Um Okay, So anyways, I like Annya Taylor Joy.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I had only known her in The Vivich I think,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and I hadn't even seen it at that point, but
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's the the vivic girl that has
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: those big old eyes and oh oh. I was mostly
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: excited to see this movie because fucking Bill of I
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Frankenstein Fame is in it, so that was There's that.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I feel like we texted about it when we both
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: first saw the trailer because there's that great trailer moment
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: slash movie moment in general where Bill Nigh hops down
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the stairs. It goes like, dude, I caught like best
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: part of the movie, and I really like to the movie,
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: but it's like the best part of the movie absolutely,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: So I was very stoked to see the movie. I
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: watched it on HBO when it was on HBO, and
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: then I was excited to revisit it for this. I
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: think it's an it's a good adaptation. I really like
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: what they changed because the book is very bizarre. I'm
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: excited to talk about that a little bit as well.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: The book is like it's it's good and like the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: literary sense and you know, whatever changed the shape of
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: the novel forever blah blah blah, like I get it. Sure,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: bookheads don't come for me, but just like this, the
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: way the story plays out is interesting to me because
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I feel like and then I frantically googled my own
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: opinion to see if I was you know, if your
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: opinion was correct. Yeah, to see if my opinion had
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: been corroborated by someone who knows who can read a book,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: and it has been corroborated. Is I think the emma
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of the book look ends up regressing by the end
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: of the story. But the way that it's been adapted
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: for twenty twenty, which I think is smart in terms
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: of like you want as a moviegoer to get some
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: payoff and feel like the character has grown in the book.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think that she really grows very much because
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the ending is different and by the end you're just
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: like it just is sort of one of those I
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: feel like this is like a Victorian novel or just
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: like sometimes a novel thing in general, where like things
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: move slow, slow, slow, slow slow, and then it's like
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: whatever the protagonist is at their slow they're at the whatever.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: The second act, end of the second act of a
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: novel is the low point. Yeah. But then but then
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: in some but then like things just kind of like
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: very abruptly work out sure, and it has kind of
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with any action that the protagonist takes. Right, Well,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then we will come
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: back for the recap. Okay, we're back, and here is
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: what happens in the movie Emma Woodhouse. We get some
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: text on screen that she is handsome, clever, and rich
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: and has lived nearly twenty one years in the world
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: with very little to distress or vex her. Woo. We
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: meet her. She's Annie Taylor Joy. Of course, her whole
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: thing is that she loves to match make for other people,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: and she has just done this for her I wasn't
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: sure exactly who this was at first. I think it
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: was her former governess, Miss Taylor. I also don't know
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: what a governess is, like a like a tutor or
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: like a governess. Yeah, it's like a combo tutor and
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: nanny basically. Okay, yeah, got it. And they like live
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: in so it's like a permanent the house. Yeah right.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: So Miss Taylor is about to get married and become
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: missus Weston, and she is therefore about to leave the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: estate where Emma lives with her father, mister Woodhouse, and that,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: of course is Bill Ni. So at the wedding between
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Miss Taylor and mister Weston, we meet such people as
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Miss Bates, who Emma thinks is very tiresome. Can I Yes,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: there is a thing. And I think it's because we've
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: been doing Jane Austen and Cinderella adaptations. And I say
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: this as a woman with a kind of longish thin head.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Anytime in a damn period piece they want to telegraph
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: this woman is annoying and not very smart. They cast
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: someone that has my head shape, and I don't like it.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: The actors who play there's always one step sister in
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Cinderella that has my head shape, and then Miss Bates
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: my head there. Look what I'm saying is you can
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: cast me as woman is obviously supposed to be annoying
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: because I have the correct head shape. What is that?
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I know what it is. We don't need to talk
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: about it, but I'm like, fuck you, it's rude leaf
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I head alone. Yeah, sorry, Miss Bates. So Miss Bates
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: is there. Mister Elton is there. He is the vicar
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: who marries this couple. And there's also talk of the
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: groom's son, Frank Churchill, coming, but he never shows up.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Who do you think is the hottest guy in the movie? Oh,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: good question? Um, my answer sucks for me. It's probably
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: between mister Mister Martin is pretty cute to me, just
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: as far as looks goes, not personality, but Frank Churchill
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I would maybe kiss I also, Um, I like the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: actor who plays mister Weston, and oh he's fun. I
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: like him. I don't know if I would kiss him
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: or not. I would kiss Bill Ni probably. What's do
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: you remember when Bill Nigh he said MW two. Uh yeah,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I will never forget the first time I heard Bill
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Knight say mutwo, I like lost my fucking mind. Well,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: now that I'm a Pokemon expert after playing five million
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: hours of Pokemon, and I think it's Arcius Arcis Archaius Arka.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how it's pronounced. I'm
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: arresting you, but I know I would get just as
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: into it. Wait, I hold on, Okay, I can't stop
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: thinking about him saying it now. But we taught We've
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: talked about this on the Matreon before. I think about
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: how Bill nigh he didn't know anything about Pokemon and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: then he started playing Pokemon Go, and then he was like,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I know that he became a sentient poke dex um
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: and he's just I just love I love that. Okay,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: think about this. Probably probably on the set of Emma
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Bill and he played Pokemon Go. Oh yeah, definitely, because
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: he would have been into it by the Yeah. Anyways,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: when he said mewtwo, he just it's because he said
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: it like a theater actor, and you just never expect
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to hear someone say it that way. Um, anyways, where
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: are we? Um? Oh? Oh? Who would you kiss? Mister
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Elton Josh O'Connor. He's also in the Crown. He also
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: plays a fucking He plays young Prince Charles, you know,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: another famously losery guy. But guess what he's got. He's
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: got a head shape that I like, and he's having Also,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I think he's very funny, and he's having such a
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: I think a good time in this movie being the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: most annoying man to ever live. Oh. Yes, in no sense,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't understand that joke. I'll say it.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: That joke was in the trailer and I was like,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: what's the joke. It's just Bill Nickey repeating something. No,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: he mispronounces it. And then Bill Nile's like, no, it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in a sense he said, mew two. Okay. So those
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: are some of the main characters. We also meet mister Knightley,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: mister Kiera Knightley. Also, I don't know who that actor is,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: but I kept thinking referring to him in my head
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: as slightly less hot Heath Ledger. Oh interesting, you know
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: who I think is mister Knightley. And the Gwyneth Paltrow
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: one is ermray Er You will Own McGregor? Were You?
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Is Nightly? In that one? Which is? I get it?
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: This guy's name, what is his deal? His name is
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Johnny Flynn. His Wikipedia picture is weird. It looks like
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: it was taken on a fucking point and sheet fifteen
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: years ago. Well, I guess I don't have much to say.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: He was definitely hot, but I you know, he was
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: too conventionally hot to hold my attention. I want I
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: want a mister Elton. I want to Bill Nile saying
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: me two, give me something interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: So mister Knightley visits Emma and her father. Okay, so
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: what is the relationship between Emma and mister Knightley. In
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the book, they're like brother and sister in law because
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Emma's sister is married to mister Knightley's brother Emma's I
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: think that that's the case in the movie too. It's
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: confusing because I keep saying we're siblings, but it's because
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Emma's sister married mister Knightley's brother. So they're in loss
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: no Blood. I wasn't sure if it was the same
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: thing as it was in Clueless, where they were former
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: step siblings no, which I always found really weird. I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: think it's weirdly less weird in the book from the
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds than it is Clueless. I think I kind
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: of forgot yeah that there. It was like a weird
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: like step sibling porn line. They're definitely yeah, no, they're
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: they're in law and they're brother and sister in law. Okay, yeah,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: that's never made very clear in this movie, right either way,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: mister Knightley and Emma have a like flirty but like
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: teasing nagging type of banter. Yeah. Emma befriends a young
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: woman named Harriet Smith mia goth fun casting. Emma kind
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of takes her on as a project and plans to
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: match make for her. Harriet fancies a young man named
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: mister Martin, but Emma doesn't think he's good or interesting
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: enough for Harriet. So Emma tries to encourage Harriet to
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: like mister Elton the vicar, right, he was kind of
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: funny and weird. Is like, so, Harriet's like a local student,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: but the way that Autumn de Wilde chooses to style
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the students is like they're in the Handmaid's Tale. So
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: you're like, well, I'm sure that that's like historically accurate,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: but it's just as a modern viewer quite jarring to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, where are they taking these women?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: Should we help them? I know I had the same thought,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: but they're just probably just like, oh, they're just you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: young women who go to a boarding school look like
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: little Red riding Hood slash the women from The Handmaid's
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Tale very weird. Who knows not us. We're not scholars. No,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: we have one brain cell and we have to share it. Okay.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So Emma and Harriet get closer. They run into miss Bates,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: who is like carrying on about her niece Jane Fairfax.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: We see them hanging out with mister Knightley. They also
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: hang out with mister Elton, who loves a painting that
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Emma did of Harriet and it seems like he really
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: likes Harriet. Then mister Martin proposes to Harriet via a letter,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: which Harriet reluctantly rejects because of Emma's kind of subtle
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: persuasion to not accept his proposal. Every time someone says
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: persuasion in this movie, I'm like, that's another Jane Auston buck.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: I know that. Oh that's funny because at least once
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: they say prejudice it is I know. I was like,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: I remember that. And then they're also talking about sense
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: and maybe sensibility anyway, and they say they boy, did
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: they say I'm a lot? And they really say I'm
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: a a lot? But there's no mention of Mansfield Park.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Is that a Jane Austen novel or did I make
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: that up? Now? You nailed it? You nailed it. Wow. Yeah,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I am a scholar after all. Okay, Harriet rejects mister Martin,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: which upsets mister Knightley, especially since it was he who
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: encouraged mister Martin to propose to Harriet. I think, right,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: he it is it is and so that's like call
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: that more in the book two of like, mister Knightley's like, Emma,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't meddle. I'm like, you literally just came from
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: mister Knightley's house to be like, you know who you
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: should marry. So he's like meddling with his boys too,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: but whatever calls him out on that good point. Emma's
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: sister Isabella visits with her her husband, who is apparently brother. Yes,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I had no idea, and then their baby, and there's
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: also another small child. I think. A bunch of them
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: have dinner together, after which mister Elton professes his love
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: not for Harriet like Emma is expecting, but his love
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: for Emma herself, and she turns him down. She's like,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get married. And he does not
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: take this rejection well he like a big baby and
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: like dashes out into the snow. He Oh my gosh,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: he's dashing through this now. Fun fun, josh O Connory.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I like in this movie there's like a few times
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: when someone just starts like yelling and you're like, well
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: they like just where He's like, oh, by the carriage.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: You're like shit. It really takes you by surprise because
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: it normally these rich people are so proper and not
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: yelling anyway. So Harriet is disappointed to learn that mister
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: Elton never liked her. Then Emma and Harriet spend some
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: time with Miss Bates again, the woman that Emma thinks
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: is super boring, as well as Miss bates niece Jane Fairfax,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: who Emma is also not fond of and maybe even
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: jealous of, which is not as clear in the movie
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: as it seems to be in the book. Meanwhile, Harriet
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: bumps into mister Martin, hot farmer. She had rejected farmers Only.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: That's that's Harriet, until Emma starts meddling she's on farmers Only,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and then Emma's like, no, you gotta get on Jane Austin.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Ye yeah, yeah, wow, Yeah, we've heard of a thing
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: or two. So that interaction is super awkward and it's
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: clear that they are still in love with each other,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: but they don't do anything about it. And then Emma
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: finally meets the elusive Frank Churchill. They make eyes at
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: each other, it seems they like each other. And also
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I think that this movie
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: in this book do very well is that's like I
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: feel like you don't see it very often executed effortlessly,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Like this is like seeing two characters that bring out
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: the worst in each other. And that is so Frank
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: and Emma where like separately they're like like they still
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: kind of suck both as a Frank sucks worst, but
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: like they both kind of suck his individuals. But when
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: you bring them together, you're like, these two cannot hang
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: out together. They're going to like hurt someone's feelings. And
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: then they do, and then they do. Yeah, hate them,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: hate them, cancel the friendship. Right Then there's a new
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: lady in town. She is the new wife of mister Elton.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Emma also does not like her. We will come to
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: find out that Emma does not like most of the
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: women she encounters. Then Frank Churchill's father, mister Weston throws
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: a ball in Frank's honor, Emma dances what I thought?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, he does what? Sorry you meant like?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, up, he doesn't. I don't see him
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: throw a single baseball. Okay, he does not throw any
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: poke balls Phil Knight, which is which is a which
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: is a shame, because I bet Bill Knight he has
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: five hundred at his damn house. I would love what
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: if Phil Knight has a poke ball room and that's
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: where I keeps all his Pokemon. So too. We should
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: cover Detective Pikachu on the podcast. Literally, let's cover I mean,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know what we really have to Is there
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: anything to Actually, there are a couple things to say, okay,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: and I will say them when we cover it. Maybe
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: for my birthday this year, maybe I'll do Detective May
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and then we'll do Detective Pikachu and another detective movie
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: because every movie is about cops. Yeah, anyway, or we
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: could find uh, well, I guess oh I had this,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Oh God, I had this thought the other day. And
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: then do you ever have a thought that you're like,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I probably don't even want to know the answer, and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I don't need to go there right now. And so
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: in my own for my own protection mentally, I don't
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: want to know the answer to the question. Yeah, my
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: question was, is Nancy Drew a cop corrob like? Is she?
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Nancy Drew works independently? But I don't remember. I don't remember.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: I feel like she probably then reported to the cops.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I don't remember either. And I've read so many Nancy
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Drew books. She worked independent twenty five years ago? Uh,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: she like she worked independently, But when she solved the mystery,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: would she tell the cops? I don't remember. Same with
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: the same with the mystery team or the mystery mission
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: that all those cartoons that got in that car, the
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Scooby Doos, the Scoobies, what were they? God, I can't
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: remember a damn thing today. The Scooby did, the Scoobies
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the coalue coalued, that's the word I'm working it. Oh,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: did the Scoobies collued? With? There was there in a
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: situation there? You know what, I guess we're just going
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: to have to cover scoob No Scoobs or two thousand
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: and two Scooby Doo. We should cover two thousand and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: two Scooby Doos. I watched I watched Scoob at a
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: low point in my life, and it was stinky, stinky, stinky.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Not no, no Lillard, right, no Lillard. If it doesn't
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: have Lillard in it, I don't care. Trewin Lillard got
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: so he got so sad when they recast him. He
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: because no one told him. And then they're like, Will
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Fourte voices Shaggy in this one, and I love like
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Will forty is the best, but my love of Will
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Forte is outweighed by my discomfort of the idea of
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Matthew Lillard like having a bad day. So how much
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: do I love Will Fourte? I don't know, I really
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: love him. Wow. Enough talking about random white guys in
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: their forties. Okay, So Frank Churchill's father throws a ball,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: the dancing kind, not the pokemon kind, and at the ball,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Emma dances with Frank because they're you know, canoodling or whatever.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: But Harriet has no one to dance with, so mister
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Knightley asks her to dance, which Emma thinks is very
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: kind and Harriet thinks is very kind. And then Emma
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: and mister Knightley says some nice things to each other
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: and then they dance together and we're like, oh, what's happened?
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: This is another thing I like that the movie does
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: that the book doesn't. The book kind of plays out
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: more like a detective novel and like who loves who
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you don't know that you can tell on like a
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: reread that Nightly clearly likes Emma the whole time, but
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Emma has no idea how she likes mister Knightley until
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: like very late in the book. And something that I
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: learned about Jane Austen by reading these books and literally
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: following along with the spark notes to make sure that
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I was listening correctly, is that, like she has this
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: bizarre tendency that I don't even really like. But in
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: terms of like adaptation, it opens up a lot of
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: creative license for writers or like screenwriters. But like the
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: most important moments in the book, she will like summarize
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: instead of writing dialogue for characters where it'll be like
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: like that whole like mister Darcy, like you've bewitchbe body
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: and soul, like that's not in the book. In the book,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: it's like mister Darcy professed his love ardently and Elizabeth
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: finally reciprocated, like it's she doesn't say what they're saying.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Show don't tell Jane Austen, geez, have you never taken
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: a screenwriting class? Yeah? Why didn't? Literally, And that's so
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: she actually was a bad feminist. She canceled. But anyways,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: because she writes like that, it opens it up for
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: a screenwriter to do kind of whatever they want. But
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: but I just thought it was funny how that plays
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: out with Emma realizing that she loves mister Knightley is
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: when Harriet is like, yeah, no, I love mister Knightley.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I don't feel a damn thing for Frank. Frank kind
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: of sucks, which also, like Emma didn't even seem to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: understand Harriet knows that Frank sucks. She's like, no, I
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: love mister Knightley. He's awesome, he's cool. And there's a
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: single line that's like Emma realized suddenly that mister Knightley
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: could marry no one but herself, and like that's how
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you're told that she loves him, Like that's how she
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: realizes it. And then she sends Harriet to the dentist
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: for a month. I'm just like, oh my god, I
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: don't know how long the dentist took back then, but
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: not a month. Not a month. I didn't even know
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: there wered dentists back then. So that's where I'm a
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: stick burn. I actually I wouldn't enough, Like I don't know,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: but she got sent away to the dentist long enough
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: that she got engaged. Like that's too long to be
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: at the dentist. Oh yeah, weird. Okay, So Emma and
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: mister Knightley's relationship is evolving, much like how a Pokemon evolves. Oh,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: she's going Charmander to what's the middle one? Was the
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: middle one? Oh? I don't know enough about it yet.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: This is my first Pokemon game. She goes Charming. Okay,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: well I'm gonna skip the middle. Then she's there's that
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: shot of him touching her waist where she goes Charmander
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to Charizard like that. She's like, you're like, oh uh oh,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: like it's a good I got. I mean, when there's
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: a horny a good horny moment in a period piece,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: it's exciting, it's nice. Oh a touch of the waist
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: full Charizard Like, That's that's how I'm gonna that's what
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna call boner moments now full ars it hits.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah it works. I thank god Bill Ni was in
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Detective Pikachu, or we wouldn't be on this gorgeous train
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: of thought. Well, it's also thanks to me playing eight
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: billion hours. It's true Pokemon Arcius right, they're now a
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: fish billable hours. Mew chew, mw chew O so funny.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: So after the ball, mister Knightley runs all the way
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: to Emma's estate, presumably to profess his love for her,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: but before he can, Frank Churchill shows up carrying Harriet,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: who is injured. Harriet tells Emma that she's in love again,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and Emma assumes Harriet means she's in love with Frank,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: and Emma promises not to interfere this time like she's
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: done in the past. Then, mister Knightley invites several people
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to his estate for an afternoon, during which Emma lets
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: it slip that she thinks Miss Bates is very boring
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: to her face to Miss s Bates's face horrible. Mis
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Bates is extremely hurt by this. She all but like
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: burst shit like evil, so evil, and mister Knightley is
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: also taken aback by Emma's cruelness and confronts Emma about it,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and she feels awful. Then Emma learns that Frank Churchill
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: is engaged to Jane Fairfax and secretly has been for
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: quite some time. So Emma feels horrible on Harriet's behalf
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: because she knows that Harriet is in love with Frank.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: But then Harriet is like, no, Frank isn't who I'm
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: in love with. I love mister Knightley, which like started
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: when he asked Harriet to dance at the ball when
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: no one else would dance with her. But then Harriet
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: realizes that Emma also loves mister Knightley, which drives a
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: wedge between them. So when mister Knightley professes his love
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: for Emma and proposes to her, She's like, well, we
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: can't do anything about it because Harriet loves you and
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: I don't want to hurt her anymore. And he's like, okay,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: well I have to go convince mister Martin to propose
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: to Harriet again, and Emma's like, no, I have to
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: be the one to do it. I have to display
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: character growth because the book doesn't do that. Yeah, yeah,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I will say the addition of Emma's nosebleed makes the
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: movie The two Emma's nosebleed and Bill and I he
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: hopping down the stairs makes it a must watch for me,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: warts and all. It makes it a must watch. Yes,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: So Emma goes and does this to convince mister Martin
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to propose to Harriet. It works, Harriet accepts his proposal.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: So now Emma and mister Knightley are free to be
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: with each other. So they cannoodle, they kiss, and then
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: the movie ends with them getting married. The end slurpp. Okay,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and then we will come
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: right back to discuss, and we're back, okay. So I'm
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: gonna be talking about the book and movie back and
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: forth throughout this episode, because boy, is this a log
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: book and it's got to be worth it for me, okay, please,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: by all means. So, the main difference, and we talked
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: about this in the Pride and Prejudice episode two, where
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: it's like there's a lot of trimming out excess characters,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: storylines that are just going on forever, stuff like that,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: which makes sense. But the big change at the end
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: is in Emma period in twenty twenty, Emma has to
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: make things right with Harriet because she has like fucked
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: up Harriet's life under the guise of like, I'm such
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a good person. And then it turns out that if
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: she had just left Harriet alone, Harriet would have made
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: the right decision on her own months ago and would
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: have gone through much less emotional distress and gas lighting
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: and all the kind of just being fucked around by
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: weird rich people. Right, and so in the movie, I
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: think it's really smart that Emma has to like atone
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: for that. It still is pretty abrupt, but at least
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: they have her, you know, she has to say I'm sorry,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: She has to go and apologize for being an asshole.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: In the book, that is not what happens in the book.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: When Nightly proposes to Emma, she says yes right away,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and then she says, yes, but let's not tell Harriet
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: what she's so mean. In the book she says she's like,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: absolutely yes, love you so much, my king, but don't
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: tell Harriet because whoopsie daisies she's in love with you.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: And Nightly is like, oh yeah, let's not tell her.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: And then Emma sends Harriet away. Emma is like, Harriet,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: don't you have to go to the dentist. You should
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: go to my sister's house in London, like, get the
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: fuck out of here. She disappears Harriet so that she
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: can tell her society, like I'm engaged to mister Knightley,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: but don't tell Harriet yet. She's going to be so
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: pissed off at me, Like she feels guilty about it.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: It's not completely evil, but like she sends Harriet away,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: and then you know, in the movie Emma, she gets
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: a noseblade, which is so funny. She gets she gets
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: a noseblade, and she's like, I want to marry you,
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: but I have to make some things right first, which
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: it totally makes more sense for the character demonstrating growth.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: And then she has to go, you know, tail between
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: her legs. She has to go to mister Martin and
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: say I fucked up. I meddled too much. You and
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: Harriet clearly belong together and really care about each other,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: and like make it right. She does not do that
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: in the book either, So she sends Harriet away, and
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: then just kind of while Harriet's away, she runs into
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: mister Martin and is like, hey, do you still love me?
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: And he's like yes, and then they get married and
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Emma doesn't find out for like where Emma goes to
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: the wedding in the end, but like it just all happens,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: Like Emma doesn't have to do anything. She's like rewarded
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: for sending Harry it away because if she hadn't sent
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Harry it away, then how would she have gotten back
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: in touch with mister Martin or whatever? Like it sucks.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: And then at the very end of the book, in
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: the last like what I find so bizarre about Emma
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: And again it's I'm not I'm nowhere near Jane Austen,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: like I don't know even like a fishy, and like
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we have listeners who have a better understanding
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: of this than I do. But I just found it
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: so bizarre that, like in this book versus Pride and Prejudice,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of like Jane Austen reinforcing the class
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: status quo. By the end of the book, everyone marries
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: within their class, and that was the right and morally upright,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: like is like socially and morally correct that everyone remained
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: within their class, whereas in Pride and Prejudice that is
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: not the case that that novel pushes against it. It's
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: interesting because now that we know that, like Jane Austen
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: had a lot of complicated feelings on class and definitely
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: some class resentment that comes through in her workmen then
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: other times it's like she's kind of reinforcing a status quo.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: We're not scholars, we don't know, but like, I just
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: think it's so interesting that, like, because it does feel
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: true to like born into wealth kind of richness. That
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: it's like all of her problems are extremely temporary, and
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: that is like how it plays out in real life
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: very often. But it's so frustrating to see it, like
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: like it's just Ana Taylor Joys, like, oh I was
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: being such an asshole, blah blah blah, and then mister
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Knightley runs up. He's like I love you, and you're like, oh, well,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: I guess it all worked out. Yeah. I feel like
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: Emma comments on gender pretty effectively, but I find the
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: way it deals with class weird because at the end
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: of the book, I think the movie does it better.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I like the things that the movie does. But in
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: the book, at the end, Emma and Harriet do meet
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: up one more time. She finds out that Harriet's father
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: was like a tradesman in bloody Bloo England. And instead
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: of saying like I'm sorry, I love you, you're you
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: and mister Martin are welcome at Wallcorn or whatever her
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: house is called any time in the book, she says okay,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: well bye, and then in like whatever the narration, Jane
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Austen basically says, like Emma and Harriet quickly fell out
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: of touch because it would have been socially improper for
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Emma to hang out with a farmer's wife. That would
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: have sucked, and like their friendship ends like they're just
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: like within a few months, Emma and Harriet didn't talk
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: anymore and that was the correct thing to happen, because
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: you know, you can't catch Emma dead like hanging out
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: with a farmer's wife and the end. And so there's
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of there have been some schoolers who argue
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: that in the book Emma is both like limited in
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: a weird it almost kind of reminds me of like
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: Belle from Beauty and the Beast, where she has this
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: dream of like living and doing all these things she
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: wants much more than this provincial life. Perhaps yeah, and
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: then she ends up moving four feet from where she
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: came from, So why even sing that song if you're
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: going to end up getting her married four feet from
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: where she lived, she literally still lives in the province,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: So why did that happen? And it's not that Emma
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: just like Emma is like set on being with her
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: father and like that is I mean, there's gender stuff
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: in there, but like she wants to stay with her dad.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: But it just seems like the argument is, like, Emma,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't you know the only thing that's really changed for
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: her at the end of the book is that she's
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: now like well married, So her like whole independent I
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: never want to get married thing is gone, and she
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: is still pretty aggressively classised. So there's a lot of
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: arguments for the book Emma to be like, well, she
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: learned a lot of lessons, but whether she actually applied
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: them to her life is pretty unclear. M it was bizarre. Well,
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: I find some things about the way the movie ends
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: not as bizarre as what you've described, Yeah, the book ending,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: but still kind of bizarre, where like Emma owes several
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: different people apologies that she does not deliver, and yeah,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: just I do. I was wondering about mister Knightley's like
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I have to go find mister Martin and like get
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: him to propose to Harriet, and Emma is like, no,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I've got to do it. Yeah, neither of them do that.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: They're like, um, yeah, send Harriet to the dentist, and
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: then Harriet's gone for a month. They're like, they said
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Harriet to the dentist for a whole last month, because
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: they like, are too chicken shit to be honest. That said,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: there are more apologies issued in the book than in
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the movie, and I feel like there are some, like
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: particularly between Emma and Jane. Jane has a much, much,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: much larger role in the book. Okay, wait, who is
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: oh Jane Fairfax? Jane Fairfax who ends up getting married
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: to Frank, which I'm just like, fuck, Frank can't stay Frank.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: But at least at least the book, the book very
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: much knows that Frank sucks and that he is just
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: so like mister Knightley. They kind of do it in
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the movie, but I thought it was funny in the
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: book where mister Knightley is constantly and I've always am
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: like mister Knightley is much older than them, which maybe
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: is not obvious in the movie that age gap is present.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Between the actors. The actor playing Knightly is thirteen years
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: older than Annya Taylor Joy, but in the book it's
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: very like Victorian and to the point where it gets
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: creepy where he's thirty six in the book, Emma's twenty
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: one and he's like, oh, I knew I was in
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: love you since you were thirteen, and you're like, that's
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: enough of that. Like so they make it out. I mean,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: even though that age gap is more or less present
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: in the movie, I feel like there's no attention called
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: to it, and the actor in his thirties looks pretty young.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: But yeah, then Nightly in the book they really like Jane.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Austen is very much pointing out like, oh, she's marrying
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: a father figure too, which also just doesn't seem very
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: I get why mister Knightley and Emma like each other,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: but I didn't. I didn't love in the book how
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: they're just like, yeah, he knew, you know, she was
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: a child, that he was a man, and now she's
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: a woman and he's still a man. But sometimes the
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: point is, and I'm about to say something I like,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: which is so I'm being all over the place. But
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: in the book, mister Knightley. He's like at least ten
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: years older than all of these, like people in their
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: early twenties and like late teens, and so sometimes he'll
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: talk about them the way that like a thirty something
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: person would talk about a twenty one year old's decisions.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: And he's just like, Frank fucking sucks. I can't believe
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: that everything like works out so well for him, because
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: he's an asshole to everybody. Jane Fairfax is like way
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: too good for him. I don't know what she sees
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: in him. He's so lucky that he could treat her
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: so poorly and that she would still come like mister
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Knightley does explicitly say all of that stuff, So I'm like, okay,
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: Jane Austen knows that this is not how you treat
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: a woman who is like intelligent and cool the way
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: that Jane Fairfax is, but it still has like it's
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: just so bizarre, like it's just a weird book. I mean,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: I really, I don't know. Even though it's like aesthetically
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: like whatever and time period wise similar to Pride and Prejudice,
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: the stories are are very different. It's weird, and yet
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: there are some similarities. Who did you think needed apologies.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: I thought that miss Bates was owed a major apology,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: and even though Emma does bring her like a basket,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: she doesn't really address what she did. Yeah and barely
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: says I'm sorry. She gets an apology in the book,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: which is weird. The things scout that back. She apologizes
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: profusely in the book. I thought that was going to
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: happen in the movie, but instead she's like, here's a basket,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: gotta go. And then miss miss Bates is just like
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: you are so you're too kind. You've always been so kind,
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: and it's like she just made you cry for saying
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: something really mean and insulting to you. Miss Bates, right,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: and Nightly was right, like I'm glad. I am glad
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: that Nightly like gave her ship for that, and that's
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: like that is such a Jane like and I guess
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: maybe just like a Victorian male hero thing in general,
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: but it's like the fucking binary in this situation is
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: like guy with charisma, dirty liar, don't talk to him,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: guy who's sort of mean to you. Now that's the
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: love of your life, like right, And then the other
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: major apology that I thought needed to happen that didn't
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: really is is Emma apologizing to and maybe maybe this
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: does happen better than I remember. But so Emma goes
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: and makes things right by approaching mister Martin and convincing
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: him to propose again to Harriet, which again I like.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: When I saw that in the movie, I was like,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: that's a very active thing for a female character to
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: do in a story written in this time period. It
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: seems a little too modern for that to be the case.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: And it turns out, yes, correct, Yeah, they I boss
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: that part, But I do like, I do like that
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: she I think that's way more effective. Oh definitely, Yeah,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I like the change. I like
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: the adaptation change. I like, you know, in general, making
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: a female character more active and giving her more agency. Um. Okay,
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: So then when she does that, she meddles one last time,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: but it works out and Harriet's and mister Martin's favor
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: where they get engaged. Either way, I feel like Emma
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: owes Harriet a much more significant apology for meddling in
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Harriet's life and her you know, romantic situation, like her
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: romantic life, and Emma does not really give that apology,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know, Emma needs to hold
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: herself accountable more than she does in general. But yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: that's just me. It's all weird, like if all in
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: the book, I thinks I was bummed about that didn't
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: make it from the book to the movie mostly, but
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: the movie clearly is choosing to focus more on the
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: Emma and Harriet friendship, Like there's a lot of emphasis
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: given to it, which I do like, and I think
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: it's like almost, well, I don't we'll get there. But
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: what I was bummed about was I think my favorite
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: character in the book is Jane, and Jane does not
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: get a lot of playtime in the movie, and I
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: wonder if she maybe did in the Gwyneth Paltrow one,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I'd be curious. But I really really really liked Jane
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: in the movie in the book because like you were
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: sort of saying, like the people in this movie, like
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: in the movie, everyone acts a little silly because it's
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: like whatever. Mister Woodhouse is a good example of an
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: upper class character who acts very silly. He's a hypochondriac.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: He's very particular, like there's always a draft, there's always
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: a draft, and Bill nyghe is like king, like love him.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: So it's not like only people of the lower classes
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: are written to be goofy, but it feels more point
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: like the way Miss bates Is character is written where
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: you do get that moment where it's like, no, of
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: course she knows when she's being insulted, yeah, and it
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: hurts her. So it's like it's not like those humanizing
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: moments aren't there. But I feel like between Harriet and
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: miss Bates, you're sort of like led to believe that,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: like women of the lower class are silly and less
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: intelligent and like because I would guess, I mean, Tie
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: is the Harriet of Clueless, right, And yeah, I feel
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: like that is more effectively done and Tie gets more
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: humanizing moments than Harriet does, because I do feel like
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: it's like, ultimately Harriet is so and also she's a teenager,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: like she's very impressionable. She's being thrown into this world.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: But the I don't know, I don't know, maybe I
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: take it back because like missus Elton as a rich
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: lady and she's the goofiest woman alive, right, and Elton
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: himself is I mean, I guess they're like upper middle
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: class like climbered because they're always like my friend mister Knightley,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: and mister Knightley's like rich enough and powerful enough to
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: be completely you know, and ask in the way that
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: mister Darcy is wearing. I feel like those are very
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: similar characters but just very different heroines, which is interesting
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: right to the point where I'm like, I don't really know,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Like I get why he but I'm just like, is
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: this a good match? Anyways? What was I gonna say? Oh,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: but Jane Fairfax. So Jane Fairfax, I feel like, is
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: a really really good antidote to how Silly Harriet and
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: miss Bates are written, because she's from that same class
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: and what they get rid of in the movie. I think,
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: correct me if this is like referenced in a scene
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: in Passing, but that like, Jane's situation is that she
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: is firm like she's a Bates, She's of that class,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: she's related to them, but when her parents died, she
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: ended up like going to stay with a rich friend
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: of her father's and so she grew up in the
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: upper class, but she's not of them, and so her
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: situation is that she can hang out in the upper class,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: but ultimately, when she turns twenty one, she has to
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: become a governess or like she has to have a
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: working class job. Do they mention that in the movie,
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: because like the stakes are pretty high for her, right,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: So it's like confusing the way she appears in the movie.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: I found a little confusing because it's like in the book,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: her stakes are very high in terms of like she's
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: grown up a certain way. It's clear that she doesn't
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: want to leave everyone she knows because her parents happened
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: to be middle class, but she's going to have to.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: And then you know, she's secretly engaged to Frank for
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: most of the book, but Frank treats her so badly
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: that she's like at the end, she's like, fuck you,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to become a governess. And that is what
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: motivates him to Yeah, like all of it, Like, there's
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of Jane's stuff that goes on in the book.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: She and Emma have a lot of scenes together in
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: the book that I really liked where Jane you get
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: moments of it in the movie. But like Emma is
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: jealous of Jane because Jane is just as whatever refined,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: if not more so, is just as talented, if not
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: more so, than Emma and is from the middle class,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: and so that's what bothers Emma about it, is like
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Jane doesn't have a lot of the advantages that Emma
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: did of birth, but is kind of like better than
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: her in a lot of ways. And so Emma kind
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: of like weaponizes that insecurity about like how is Jane
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: so good at this, this and this, and kind of
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: flings it in her face and Jane responds, and like
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: there's this interesting tension between them, and by the end,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: Emma grows a little bit and once she realizes like
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Jane was in love with Frank and like Emma was
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: totally off about everything, she goes to Jane and gives
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: like a really sincere apology and is like, I wish
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: that we had been friends all of these years, but
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: we were pitted against each other when we were so young.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: And also I was jealous of you, and like I'm sorry,
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: and I hope that you have a happy life marrying
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: this fucking jerk. But like it was just I thought
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: it was a very satisfying. Jane was my favorite, yeah,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: because she just she did what she had to do,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: but she did it with class and she didn't meddle,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: and I just wish she was like ended up with
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: someone cooler than Frank, but she loved Frank. So I
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: guess sure, fine, Oh, I guess sure. Justice for Jane.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: No no. Yeah. Also, there's too many Janes, because there's
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Jane and Pride and prejudice too, and there's she Jane Austin.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: There were like seven different names back then. I guess
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: it's an interesting adaptation because it's been I guess pretty
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: thoroughly debated. Whether Jane Austin even likes Emma based on
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: the way she written in the book and the fact
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: that she Some people view Emma the novel as like
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: a full on class satire because Emma learns all these
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: things about the world and still acts like a rich
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: person at the end of the day. And so like,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Emma gets everything she wants because of course she does,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: she's fucking rich. Like, no matter how much you force
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: onto the like genteel class about the reality of the world,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: things are still going to work out for them. And like,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: so there is a way of looking at it from
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: the book of like, yeah, Emma sucks. The author knows that,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: and like, to some extent, that's the point. But because
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: of how movies work, and are sold you can't really
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: do that, or you can, but like most adaptations choose
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: not to over like having Emma display learning, Like I
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: feel like this movie takes the I don't think this
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: is like unusual, but like this movie takes the route
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: of like she learns about class and successfully applies that
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: to how she lives her life, and she stands as
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: this like symbol that she does in the book as
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: well of like you can have the most privileged it's
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: possible for a woman to have in this time and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: still be basically fucked, which is which is something that
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I think is touched on more effectively in Pride and Prejudice. Right, Yeah,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: so I don't know. I mean, I I don't like Emma,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: but I like watching Emma, and I'm constantly frustrated by
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: like the lack of consequences she experiences. This movie has
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: to add consequences to get her to a place where
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: it seems like she's grown, and it still feels like
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: she kind of gets off easy for whatever. Right, she
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't grow or arc as much as I would want
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: to see a character grow. But also, you know, she
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: does come from extremely rich and privileged background, so like
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: kind of what do you expect from someone like that?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: You kind of just like I would have to like
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: suspend my disbelief more that she does have a significant
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: arc and that she lets go of some of her
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: perhaps prides and prejudices the ha ha. And I think
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: it is more believable that she kind of stays a
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: pretty static character, right, I mean, if it is satire,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: I mean the movie. I don't think the movie is satire.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: The movie, I feel like definitely isn't satire. The book
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: arguably could be seen that way, but also we're not
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: talking about the button, but the movie I don't think.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: I think the movie tries to kind of plays it
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: pretty straight. Yeah, and like adds in moments to give
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Emma growth. And I thought it was like interesting. I
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: read some and watched some interviews with the director of
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: this movie, who I man, hope she's listening. She I'm like,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: she's so fucking cool. After Autumn de Wilde, it was
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: her first feature, she directed, her first feature in her
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: late forties. She walks with a cane that has a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: shot glass built into the cane, which she's just so
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: fucking cool, Like it's unbelievable. And she started as a
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: music video director. She's like of that pipeline, but unlike
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: many male music video directors who I feel like direct,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: you know, like I'm thinking of like your David Fincher's,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: your Spike Joneses, who direct a few successful music videos
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: and then are directing movies by the time they're in
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: their late twenties early thirties. She had to fight to
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: make not this movie specifically, but like to make a
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: movie of her own for decades because you know, misogyny
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: and what. Anyways, Sorry, we've ben talked about this on
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: the show before. Excuse me, and I don't have time
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: hang on, but she fucking rocks, Like all of her
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: interviews are like she's just she dresses. She just oh
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: you'll like this. She described her personal style as Oscar
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: Wilde meets Paddington Bear, and it totally tracks. She's just
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: she's so fun. Like she sort of made it her
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: mission statement of the movie to like create a very
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: beautiful movie, which like mission accomplished that I hear based
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: on all of the fucking costuming YouTubers I watch because
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: I'm a Door is a very period accurate nice because
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: all the all the costuming YouTubers they're like this is
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: eighteen o four and it should be eighteen o four
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: and a half, like whatever, But this one apparently like
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: the attention to details, like on point, it's beautiful. It
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: looks like a music video in a way that isn't
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: distracting whatever. But she said like, oh, I you know,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: you have this flawed heroine in the form of Emma.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: And I'm like that is true, but I and yet
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: I really like and this isn't even a criticism of
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: the movie or the book. I just am like, yeah,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: I don't like Emma. Like I'm like not, I'm interested
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: in what happens to her, and I want her to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: display growth, but I like, don't really, it's so obvious
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: that she's going to be fine, and then at the
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: end she's fine, right yeah, where it's like with Lizzie Bennett,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: the stakes are relatively high, like she you know, and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: it is like we talked about in the last episode,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, the middle class is not
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: a death sentence, but in the society that they're in it,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: you know, the misogyny was much more intense and there's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: all this stuff, but Emma doesn't really It's made very
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: clear early on that even though Emma remaining single, there
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: is some discrimination against her, which you get in those
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: few moments of like well wives first, like single ladies
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: to the back, and Emma never wants to get married,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: So this is how she'll be treated her whole life.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: But it's made clear very early in the book and
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: I think in the movie too, that like, even though
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: this is an unconventional decision, her immediate support system fully
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: accepts it and accepts her and thinks she's amazing, and
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: she'll be able to do it without her quality of
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: life being sacrificed, right because, as we talked about in
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: the last episode, one of the reasons that so many
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: women were so concerned about, like, oh my god, I
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: have to get married, and I have to get married
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: right now, and it has to be to a man
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: who has a big income, because that was literally a
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: survival thing. More than the very tropy. Women just love
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: romance and they love getting married for the sake of
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: being married thing. So it's just like when Lizzie Bennett
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: refuses someone's hand, a rich person's hand, it's a way
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: bigger deal than when Emma refuses anyone because she's going
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: to be fine no matter what which just for me
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: makes it like her a like rich Girl learns a
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: lesson is just not a very compelling narrative to me.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Let me pronouncing the tia narrative, what a bitch, Sorry,
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: but it isn't like I just I don't know. And
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: again it's like, I'll be damned if I could tell
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: you why it works for me. And clue is maybe
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: I just like the outfits better. But like, yeah, rich
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: girl learns a lesson is just not interesting to me,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: especially because it's like there, I just think, I don't know.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: I'm just like Jane Fairfax is more like her story
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: is more interesting, Like I've in my mind, Emma is
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: a b character and Jane Fairfax's story, which is more
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: laired and more interesting, it has more to say about
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: class and gender and like how people interact with each other.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: But I see what you mean. I don't think it's
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the most compelling story ever told. Sure, which is my
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: standard for every movie. But if we do have to
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: watch movies about rich people, which many movies are, I'd
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: rather them learn and have an arc and see the
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: error of the ways. But the thing, I think what
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Emma learns more than like I should be more empathetic
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: to people of a lower class than me. What she
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: learns more than that lesson is she just learns to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: stop meddling in other people's lives. Right, So for sure,
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: if she learned something that had more to do with like, oh,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: I should stop treating poor people like they're a little
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: project of mine and treat them like human beings, or
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: I should spread my wealth meaningfully or something like that,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: I would find that way more compelling than her just
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: being like, oops, I played Matchmaker one too many times
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: or whatever. Right, And it's like hard because it's like
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: I know that. That's why this story is like light
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: and fluffy and fun. It is because it's like this
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: young woman is clearly like if I was, like Emma's
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: clearly projecting, like that's so much of the movie as
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: like I don't want to deal with my or maybe
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: it's clear in the book. I don't know, Like it
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: feels kind of clear that it's like Emma. Part of
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: the reason Emma metals and other people's lives is because
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: she is not able to see herself as the protagonist
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: of her own life, which is interesting, like she keeps
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: casting herself as like Judy Greer in her own life,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: and it's like interesting choice because you're literally a millionaire,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: And like, I wonder, I'm sure someone's done Emma's astrological chart,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: because it's so like she does have this like superhuman
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: ability to like that I know, like people have, but
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: it's just not relatable to me at all. Of like,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: she's able to see romantic issues very like objectively, and
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: she looks at romance in terms of class, which I think,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: which is why I wish that I guess that that's
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: part of why I ultimately kind of walk away disappointed
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: that there's not more said about class, because she is
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: very obviously arranging people and doing this like puppetmaster thing
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: based on class, like the reason that she wants Harriet
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: like and and and then there's also this theme in
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: the book that is not touched on in the movie,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: where it's like or she she says it about mister Martin.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: I think that that's the most you get. At the
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: beginning of the movie, she talks about like, well, I
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: don't give a shit about mister Martin because he's not
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: poor enough for me to look like a hero if
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: I help him, right, He's not rich enough that he
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: can actually hang out with me, so why would I
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: give a shit about him? And she's basically like, the
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: middle class is useless to me, because right, and so
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: it's like she's she's an extremely classist character and that
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: is like cannon to the book and the movie and
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: like explicitly says like and she says this too, Harriet,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: which makes it clear that Emma's like, yeah, I consider
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: you someone worth helping because because you're so poor, right,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: you come from nothing, and you don't even know who
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: your parents are. But let's pretend like your father is
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: a gentleman. That's just what we'll say, right, And like,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: so it's a game turn her like poor people are pawns,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: and a game that she uses to elevate her own profile,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: a game of chess. Netflix. I gave of my boyfriend chess. Netflix.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: That's what a fun name, mewtwo. You two. I'm so tired? Okay,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: so same oh oh, So, like Emma is like the
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: metaiest metaller that ever was, And part of it's because
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: she is like you know, like she says, I don't
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: want to get married, but then it turns out that
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: that's not actually the case. Find that happens whatever, But
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: she's she's matching according to class, like she wants Harriet
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: to class jump, like she wants Harriett to jump at
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: tax bracket. And that is why she keeps trying to
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: convince Harriet that she's in love with all of these men.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: And Harriet is very young and very impressionable and kind
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: of out of her depth in many ways in this story,
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: and so she ends up like experiencing a lot of
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: emotional pain as I think, like a late high school
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: early college student, right, because this rich girl is like,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I want you to jump class you know, which, which
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: is in the context of this society, Like you could argue,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: you know, Emma wants to secure Harriet a better future
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: than she would have if they hadn't met. Sure, However,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: once mister Knightley comes into the picture, obviously that's not
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: the case because once she figures out like and this
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: is more explicit in the book, but like, once Emma
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: figures out that Harriet is in love with mister Knightley,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: technically that is exactly what Emma was trying to do,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: make a match for Harriet that was above her class
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: that Harriet felt good about. Right, But Emma's like no, no,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: not no, that's actually he's mine, So you have to
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: go to the dentist like for a month, and then
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: she like possibly fucks her friend over permanently, and then
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: thankfully Harry it gets to marry the guy she wanted
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: to marry the whole time. And Emma she doesn't apologize
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: to I mean, she does apologize to Harriet in the book,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: but then she never speaks to her again, so it's like, right,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: what was the point I do? Like in the their
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: friendship in the movie I think is more effective, but
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: it's still just because of like the source material. It's
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: like it's just never going to be super satisfying because
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: Harriet is just so forgiving of Emma. Everyone is everyone
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: she loves Emma. It could be like effective commentary maybe
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: if it was like approached differently, but just like people's
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: tendency to give rich people so much leeway and like
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: forgive them for all of their you know, horrible misdeeds,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: but the movie isn't really commenting on that. It's just
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: like presenting, well, the book isn't either, Like right, again,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of the problems with the movies storyline are
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: part and parcel to what the like. I think that
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: the I do think the movie does the most I
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: can with the story without striking too far from the story.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Shout out to screenwriter Eleanor Katton, who was a novelist
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: who has more recently gone to screenwriting, which is fun.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: Love that for her. I read what was the book
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: of hers? I read? I read, Oh, the Luminaries. It
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: was good anyways, but there's yeah, there's just like so
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: much like Emma Is I guess considered one of Jane
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Austen's more conservative novels because it ultimately kind of ends
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: upholding upholding the status quo in most ways where viewed
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: from one side, it's like, oh, that's great that Harriet
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: married mister Martin because that was who she liked the
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: most the whole time, so like, that's her following her bliss.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: But also Jane Austen made these people up, and she
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: made it that in every case everyone married from except
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: for the only couple that is like has class disparity
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: in the way that like dars See and Lizzie Bennett
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: do is Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill. That's the one
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: couple actually that is worth But the movie kind of
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: chooses not to doesn't really make it clear that that
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: that happens because of Jane Fairfax. Erasure right glosses over
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: what Jane Fairfax's situation is. I'm going to write one
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: of those horrible God, I'm so sick of this happening,
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: but I think it would be fun for Jane Fairfax,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like when I feel like it like peeked
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: with like Wicked and like those Gregory mick Whatever's guys
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: books where he's like, remember this B character, Well, I
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: wrote a whole book about them having sex, And you're like,
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: I don't want I don't think I wanted that, but
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: they were all bestsellers in like the mid to late
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: two thousands. They're like, yeah, remember the like he wrote
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: a book about the step sisters. He wrote Wicked. They're
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: just like, yeah, I remember this B character. They they're
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: so funking horny, and you're just like, ah, okay, whatever,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: I guess. A matron pointed out. Shout out to Abigail
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: pointed out on the comments of our Prime Prejudice episode
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: that an author named Janice Hadlow wrote a novel called
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: The Other Bennett's Sister to flesh out the character of
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: Mary Bennett. She was, so see that's the one acceptable answer.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: So that's fine. Mary Bennett and Jane Fairfax are the
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: two side characters who are underdeveloped in the books and
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: adaptations that I want to write. Oh I want to
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: read that Mary Bennett book. Yeah. Oh, Also, someone tweeted
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: this at me. I don't know how we missed this,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: you knoww we were like, oh, the actor who plays
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: Mary as the least famous of everyone. Apparently she was
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: married to Elon Musk twice. Twice they got married and
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: then divorced, and then married again and then divorced again.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: So she was busy doing some probably fucked up stuff. Yeah,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: so that I guess that's why she's not acting, because
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: she's she was. Look, you're we all on this planet
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: have one job, and it's still like not marry Elon
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: Musk and many people have um simply failed. As you
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: hear that Grimes is La who was married to him
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: right now, she did not marry him and then she
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: broke up with him, but she did have a baby
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: with him. Oh right, okay, okay, And that is unfortunately
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: way too much information that I knew. But I'm a
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: recovering Grimes fan. I really was. I was a huge
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: fan of hers in college and I was like, Wow,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: she's so cool, and then you married Elon Musk. Disappointed.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: Oh you know what, what what I should have said
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: instead of that actor who married Elon Musk twice, I
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: should have said mute two times. Oh anyway, go on,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Okay, I guess I'm sorry. I don't
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: know anyways, Jane Fairfax Rocks Emma is. Emma is fine,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: but she's not the most interesting person in the story,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think sure. The couple things that struck me
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: about her since I wasn't familiar with the book and
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: didn't know how this adaptation compared to the book. Speaking
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: strictly from watching the movie, standpoint, I found it interesting
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: that Emma Her relationship with women was noteworthy in that
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: she seems to hate almost every woman she encounters, with
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: the exception of Harriet. But that's also an interesting relationship
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: because MS sees Harriet and missus Weston right, yes, yes, yes, yeah,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: oh right, okay, So Harriet MS sees more as a
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: project than a French person. Yeah, especially in the book
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: as you've described it, she was just going to be
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: like sorry, mister Knightley's mine. You have to go to
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: the dentist now. Right. In the movie, they do change that,
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: which humanizes EMA's character more. But even so, m spends
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: most of the movie not really treating Harriet as an
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: equal and being like, I'm the teacher. I teach you things,
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: and you have to do as I say, and if
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: you make choices that I don't like, then I'm not
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: gonna want to be your friend. So that's a peculiar
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: relationship with Missus Weston. Well, Missus Weston is like basically
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: her like surrogate mom. So that's right. I think why
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: that relationship goes away it is, I do. Yeah, if
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: with Emma there is this kind of strong, like she
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: has a bit of a guy's gal energy about her,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: where she's much more forgiving and even like celebrates the
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: faults of the men around her and is very very
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: punitive and judgmental of other women around her. I feel
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: like again in the book and at the movie to
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: an extent, that's contextualized a little better, where you know, like,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: part of why Lizzie Bennett is amazing is because there's
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: constantly this pressure on her to dislike other women and
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: She's like, no, fuck you. This is an important relationship
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: to be and that's why Lizzie Bennett's the best. Emma
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, I feel like experience is that
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: same pressure of like we live in a small community,
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: everyone's in competition with each other, blah blah blah, and
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: she gives into that I feel like in a major way,
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: in a way that probably wasn't unusual for that time
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: and still happens now, right, But yeah, Emma doesn't really
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: push back on that until at the end of the
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: book where she issues a series of apologies and makes
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: things right, which like sort of happens in the movie.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I wish that had happened more in
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: a movie, because if the movie is asking us to
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: be endeared and empathetic toward Emma, yeah, she needs to
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: grow more and she needs to apologize because the way
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: I was seeing it, she starts out hating a lot
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: of the women around her, but then sees the error
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: in her ways, Like especially after after she's cruel to
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Miss Bates, she offers her a basket and I guess
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: that's an apology, but she like kind of she comes
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: around on Miss Bates. She doesn't really come around on
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: Jane Fairfax in the movie. I would have liked to
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: see more of Emma acknowledging that she was being very
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: petty and jealous and classics toward Jane, but that we
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: don't really see that in the movie, which is weird
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: because I feel like it would help the movie, and
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: it definitely happens right right with Harriet. Obviously, that's a
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: major change in this adaptation, and I think for the
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: better because it again does make Emma more empathetic and
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: more active. So I'm pro that choice. But I think
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: a more effective film overall and like adaptation would have
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: shown Emma being prejudice toward the women around her at
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: the beginning, but then reconciling with them and like growing
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: and having those relationships become more positive by the end
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: fresh versus like in the beginning, she's favoring a lot
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: of the men around her and like thinking they're awesome.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: She thinks mister Elton is awesome at first. She thinks
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: Frank Churchill is awesome before she has ever even met him,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: you know. She thinks all these men are awesome. And
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: this is I think done pretty effectively in the movie,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: where she as she gets to know them, realizes their
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: actually way worse than she thought, so basically like the
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: arc for Emma should have been, like she starts out
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: as a very bad, very poor judge of character, and
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: then by the end she becomes a way better judge
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: of character. And maybe that's and which is like also
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: kind of what priend prejudice it is about, but it's
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: just better. It's better. I mean, I know that not
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: everyone can be Lizzie Bennett, but I'm just like, damn Emma,
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: Lizzie Bennett, no contest, honey, I would so be friends
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: with Elizabeth Bennett. I don't want to be friends with
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: Emma Woodhouse, No, I wish her no ill, But I
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: do want to be friends with Jane. And I want
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: to talk Jane into divorcing Frank and eloping with me
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: because she's awesome. But also it's I don't know in
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: this world Jane ending up with Frank is It's funny
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: because it's like I kind of in some ways, I
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: kind of like and again I'm maybe talking more about
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: the book here, but like I kind of like mister
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: Knightley more than I like Emma, which feels like a betrayal.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: But like mister Knightley, I see what you mean. Like
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: mister Knightley, it has the same amount. I mean, he
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: has more privilege than Emma because he's a man, right,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: so like inherently, but personality wise, mister Knightley is way
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: more willing, probably also because he's older, way more willing
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: to be like you can't treat people like that or
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: like in the book especially he goes on some you know,
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: too long tears, but like he's he's I think more
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: often than Emma presents the morally correct standpoint towards a
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: character where he's very quick to be like Frank is
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: a bullshit artist, like something isn't quite right there. He's
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: like courting you, but it's weird, like he catches on
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: to that very quickly. He also catches on quick to
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: like Emma, why are you being mean to Jane? She's
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: like a perfectly nice person and I think you're maybe
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: a little bit jealous of her. And Emma's like no,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: which is which is pointed coming from a man, because
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: it's like what does he know? But also he's like
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: correct in that situation. And then he also is the
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: person that's like, you can't treat miss bates like that,
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: and he lays out a pretty like I thought, like
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: and this is in the book too, but like a
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: pretty gender and class aware argument as to why he's like,
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: not only does it mean but you need to keep
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: in mind that she does not have the same amount
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: of privilege that you have, right, and because of how
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: our society is structured, her situation is going to get
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: worse with time, So like, how dare you talk to
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: her that way? Right, which is also like, well, nightly,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: you could always help her out, You're a fucking bajillionaire.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: But just the fact that he sees and understands gender
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: and class issues better than Emma in some ways, and
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: then obviously there's other other ways that Emma like Emma
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: seems hyper aware of the fact that she will be
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: treated differently her whole life if she never gets married,
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: and she's already said like, I'm fine with that. It sucks,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: but I'm fine with that, which is I think one
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: of the only points that that character has to make
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: that was interesting to me. I don't know, I guess
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: I'm anti. I just don't like whatever, Like you don't
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: have to like her, I don't In many cases, like
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: she's supposed to be hard to like, and it works.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: I found it hard to like her, right yeah, Because
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: it's also mister Knightley who sees through Frank Churchill right
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: away too, and it's like this guy sucks. How do
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: you not notice this? And Emma's like, no, he's awesome.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: And in the book, Emma forgives Frank. Frank sends her
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: this long letter and he's like, hey, sorry, I was
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: like aggressively flirting with you all that time. I assumed
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: that you knew that I wasn't serious about it, and
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: which in the book is true. So she's like, oh, yeah,
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: I do. But it's like, imagine if she didn't know
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: how evil that is. And then he's like, yeah, it
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: was really mean of me to be like aggressive, like
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: because he does it once in the movie, he does
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: it all the time. In the book, he's constantly calling
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: Jane weird, looking like to throw everyone off his scent
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: that he secretly engaged to her. He's like, Jane Fairfax,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: what a weirdo? Hate her, can't stand her, and like
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: eggs Emma on to do the same, and then she
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: forgives him, and I'm just like, Jane, baby, let's get
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: out of here, like I don't know, it's so bizarre,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: like Frank sucks and Nightly Nightly. Then oh so in
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: the book, Emma reads the letter and she's like, oh, well,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: you know, Frank, you know, he made a lot of mistakes,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: but I'm glad he apologized, which is true. Men don't
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: usually apologize for anything in fiction or real life. So
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: there you go, that's good. You know, he did more
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: than most people would, but it's still not enough because
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: he did a lot of bad stuff. And Nightly reads
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: the letter after her, and it's like, all right, well,
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: I guess it's good that he apologized, but like, I
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: still think Jane is way too good for him and
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: I don't want to hang out with him. And I
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, mister Knightley, Well, the other big thing
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: for me with this movie is the romance between Emma
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: and mister Knightley. I mean, we've already touched on some
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: of this stuff, but you know, it starts out not
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: unlike the way that like the Lizzie Bennett and Darcy
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: relationships starts out where they are, you know, antagonistic toward
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: each other. With Emma and Nightly, it's a little more
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: like teasy and like they're acquainted already, so they have
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: like a rapport that they've had for many years. Yeah,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: it's cute. It's cute. And what I find maybe this
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: is maybe this is just me, but if I like someone,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: I'm very acutely aware that I like them. I've never
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: experienced the thing that seems to happen a lot in
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: movies where someone realizes that they've been in love with
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: someone for months or years. Has this Does this happen
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: to other people? Where they're like, they're just completely clueless
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: that they're in love with someone, and one day the
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: right clueless, one day a light bulb goes off and
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: they're like, wait a minute, I've been in love with
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: this person the whole time. Is that a thing? I
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: don't know? I mean, I I don't think like in
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: this way. I think I find that more. I think
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: that that happens more often than enemies to lovers, Like
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: I do think that it's like I know, I mean,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: I guess you could argue that that's sort of what
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: happened with my parents. They were friends for like I mean,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: granted they're extremely divorced, but my parents were like friends
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: for seven years and then they started dating. But were
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: they like secretly in love with each other that whole
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: time and then they find they like suddenly realized it
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: or is it? Probably not, Caitlin, But do I think
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: that Nightly has had a thing for Emma forever? Which
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: gets problematic because she was a kid for a lot
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: of that. But I don't know. I do think that
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: they're like, I don't think it happens as often as
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: it happens in books, but I do think that, like
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of examples in real life of people being
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: friends for a long time and then falling in love. Well, yeah,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: that I think that's definite thing. But I'm saying, not
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: like realizing I've loved you the whole time. I don't
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: understand how that would right. Yeah, that sounds made out.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: I mean again, maybe maybe there are people out there
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: that that happened, but I don't. I'm just like, I
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I'm just so aware of my feelings
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: brag that I just know if I love someone, I
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: don't know. I anyway, I guess that that well, I know,
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: you know what, I think it happens, I do, okay,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: because I was just like, wait, I think that that
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: that's actually kind of what happens in my first major relationship.
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: I well, I the point I was going to try
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: to make was because I like realistic representations of romance
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: in media because it so rarely happens. Yeah, so many
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: romantic movies just like make up a thing that doesn't
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: seem to happen ever in real life, and that's like
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: the crux of the relationship, and then convinces people that
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: that's how stuff is going to go in their life
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: and that it doesn't and then they're just like well,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: and then they're thirty and then they're like, wait a second,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: I guess that wasn't a thing, right, So I was
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: just curious, So sound off in the comments. Also, matrons,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: if if it's happened to you where you've loved someone
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: for a long time but it took you a very
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: long time to realize it and you had no idea
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: about your feelings, because if that is a thing, then
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: I will I will hold my tongue. I think it
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: does happen, but not as often as it does in ficture.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: That's my that's my I don't know, sorry, but that's
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 1: my two little pet. That's should we just end the episode,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know things are going off the rails. I
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: don't think I have anything else to say. Honestly, I
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: will say that in the comments of our Patreon someone
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned that Miss Bates and Emma, or their opinion was
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: it Miss Bates and Emma was as close to um
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: Jane Austen's financial situation, which was that she like had
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: some money as a young person, but then when certain
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: relatives die, she was dependent and it was single because
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: her income from writing wasn't significant enough to like elevate
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: her to like Emma's status. So God, just more more grist,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: little to chew on. Yeah, do you ever? Do you
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: have anything else here? Just one last really quick thing.
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: This is something we you talked about in the ever
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: After episode. Yes, okay, I is another movie that paints
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: romani people as dangerous thieves. It's not as egregious in
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: this movie as it is and ever After I would argue,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: but there's a definite mention of it. And that's something
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: that's in the book that I was shocked made it
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: to the movie. Shocked, Yeah, because this movie was made
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: two years ago and everyone involved should have known better,
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: because it's like this movie does take creative license with
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of plot points. Why not that one peepee
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: poop poo bad job. Yes, Other than that, yeah, I think, um,
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: I guess. My parting word. My parting thoughts are that
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: this adaptation could have lent itself to a character in
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Emma that I would be more empathetic toward, had she
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: demonstrated more growth by the end, a better judge of
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: character by the end, gotten rid of her prides and
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: prejudices by the end, especially because so many of the
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: people that she was quick to judge or mistreat our
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: other women, And had Emma not ended up such a classist,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: anti woman character, which is so hard because it's like
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: I don't think that Emma's like anti woman per se,
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: but like it's just like it's a very weird, complicated
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: thing that the way that this story has been adapted
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: makes it hard to be on Emma's side as much
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: as the movie would like you to be. I think
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: right in the book, I feel like my I forget
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: what other but I'm like, I find it very easy
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: to believe that the book has elements of satire to it,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: of like rich people are going to be rich people,
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: and like, look at all these. I don't know. This
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: one is kind of tough because I always want to
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: be resistant towards like why doesn't this movie that takes
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: place in eighteen twelve have the morals of today. It's like, well,
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: we know why, right, But then also why choose to
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: adapt something from back then in the twenty twenties and
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: not really say anything or do anything about it. I
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: felt that way with like, well, I think that she tried,
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: Like I that's willy come to the But I do
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: think that they tried. I think they changed elements and
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: they tried to put you more in the friendship with
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: Emma and Harriet. And they try and they did, like
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, and they were successful in putting you more
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: in Emma and Harriet's friendship and demonstrating more personal growth
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: on Emma's part than takes place in the book. I
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: just think it gets a little dissonant, and it gets
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: into what was Jane Austen's intent with this character, and
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: does the movie telegraph that same intent? So I think
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's adaptation wise. For me, it's a
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: little messy because I don't think my read of the
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: book was that you're not really supposed to be like Wahoo,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: Emma got everything she wanted. It's more like and obviously
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: Emma got everything she wanted, where the movie wants you
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: to be more like Wallhoo, Emma got everything she wanted.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: And it's just hard when someone is that privileged and
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: most of her growth happens through minor inconveniences that affect
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: other people more than herself, it's hard to root for her,
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: and it's hard to be like Wall who she got
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: what she wanted because you're told in the opening line
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: she's clever, handsome, and rich. She gets what she wants, right,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: So why am I supposed to be cheering at the
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: end when she gets what she wants? So I just
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I've it's weird, and it's like I
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: want to be careful to not like Project twenty twenty
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: two morals onto this story and in the same way
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: or like, but Jane Austen has done a better like
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: we just covered a story where Jane Austen did, I think,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: like a much more effective job of discussing these same
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: topics that feel weird in this adaptation. Right, it's just weird.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know. My opinion is it's fucking weird. Who knows.
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, I have had such a good time
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: prepping for the It's not to brag, but it's taken
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: way longer than it usually does when you're reading a
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: whole book and then watching a movie a billion times.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: But I feel really something revisiting Jane Austen's work and
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: like having to engage with a period piece like this critically,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: because it is challenging to be like, Okay, you know
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: we're an intersectional feminist podcast, but what does that mean
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: with this work, and like, how can we analyze something
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: without coming to the table with a completely unreasonable expectation,
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: and like how does adaptation to I don't know. It's
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: been a fun little brain puzzle that everyone's going to
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: view differently, but I've enjoyed it. I don't know, But
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: I mean Pride and Prejudice way fucking better. And I
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: don't think that that's the fault of the filmmakers of
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: this movie. This movie is gorgeous. All the performances are
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: well done. The only thing that I would really criticize
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: about this movie that is the treatment of Romani people.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: And also just like I mean, scaling back Jane, I
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: didn't love and removing more effective apologies that were in
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: the book but were left out in the movie. I
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: thought was bizarre. But but the third act changes, even
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: though some of them, like you were saying, were like
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: a little too modern, even so I liked the third
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: act changes they made. I thought it was like a cool.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: It kind of reminded me of another White Girl reboot
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: we saw recently with Little Women, where Gredick Gerwick was
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: doing all sorts of funery with the third act of
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: that movie, and it worked out in this really fun,
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: cool way that had something to say. This one maybe
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: didn't have quite as much to say, but I thought
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: it was like a cool I don't know, I'm happy
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: it exists. I would rather see more adaptations of Pride
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: and Prejudice than of Emma. And also, you know, I don't,
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I don't. I don't even
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: know that I necessarily feel like no more Jane Austen adaptations.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of cool that there are these
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: properties that get a generational reboot. It's kind of like
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: Shakespeare in that way, like Where and Autumn. De Wilde
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: says that in an interview where the first question an
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: interviewer asked her, was like, so why in Emma reboot?
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: Why now? And she's like, no, I've literally never heard
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: that asked of a Shakespeare reboots. So I don't know
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: how to answer that question, right, So I don't. I
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's all, it's all weird. Should we
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: cover Pride and prejudice and zombies? No? It sucks. I
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: never saw it sucks. It's so boring. But Joel Kim,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: Booster and Boie Yang are in that Pride and Prejudice
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: reaming called Fire Island that comes out next year. Oh,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that was I had no idea see it.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: So it's like this is like these are fun stories
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: to reimagine and readapt and like still like Clueless is
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: the most fun I think in like insightful ly adapted
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: version of Emma. But I liked this movie. I thought
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: that they did cool stuff and it like it's so
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: beautiful it is. I liked it. It It passes the Bechdel test.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: M it does, sure does. What would you rate it
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: on our nimble scale? Because I don't know. I think
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with like two and a half or three,
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: like something like maybe three given the time period, because
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: it's like centering a complicated woman at the center of
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: a story in a movie that's directed and written by women,
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: that's adapted from an old ass book by a woman.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: A woman it bears saying that it is all white women,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: you know, right down the line there. However, it's like
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: it is. It is rare in that regard, and I
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: feel like that's a lot of the reason why this
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: story has endured and so for its time specifically. Yeah,
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: a complicated female character at the center of a story,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: whether I like her or not, is something. Sure, she's
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: no Elizabeth Bennett honey, but I think even Jane Austen
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: knows that, you know. So it's like it is it,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: it's complicated. I don't like Emma. I just don't love
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know. These are just like like I think
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: that ultimately, like Emma doesn't. She understands what she's done,
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: but there's not really any consequence for it in a
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: way that I find so frustrating. She's like fucking with
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: the like she could have ruined Harriet's life. It's like
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: it really like she could have rout like in this
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: society specifically, Emma is trying to make herself feel like
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: she's doing something, like she's whatever, insecure about whatever it is.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: It's everyone quite clear to me what it is, and
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: so she needs to feel like she's doing something. But
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: she's ruining the life of someone much poorer than her.
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: So I hate that. But I do, like I mean,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: in terms of the class spectrum, there is a lot
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: of women of different classes that I think are all
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: I still think that Miss Bates and Harriet are made
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: to look silly because of their class and made to
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: seem like under educated. Yeah, but you do get humanizing
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: moments with them. It's not like their total cartoon characters.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: It's just all so complicated. I don't know. But like
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: Emma is handsome, clever, and rich. It's on the fucking poster.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: She starts the story that way, and she ends the
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: story that way, and she does learn a lesson about meddling.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: But I think, given the fact that she's meddling on
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: a class basis, I just wish that this movie had
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: word to say about class. It's so it's hard, I
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: guess I'll But because Autumn deWilde is really fucking cool,
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: I want to see more movies from her. I thought
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: the screenplay was pretty well done for like Annie Taylor
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Joy is you know chess Netflix, She's great Bill and
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: I he no notes, Like, I guess I'll give it
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: three nipples, and I'm giving them all to Jane Fairfax.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: Give her a spare put in her pocket like a
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: tire nice. I will agree on three. I think, just
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: echoing a lot of your thoughts on it definitely could have,
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: especially again an adaptation coming out in twenty twenty. I
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: feel like, and I mean, maybe this is just because
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: we've been doing this podcast for over five years, but
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: I'm of the mind that if you're going to adapt
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: something with such old source material, accompany it with some
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: interesting commentary or make adaptation changes that update the story
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: in interesting and meaningful ways. And I think I think
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: this movie does attempt that to some degree, but I
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: agree that it doesn't do quite enough. Yeah, Like, I
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to see like an eighteen hundred story
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: with twenty twenty two morals, but like maybe I do.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: But also I'm like, I think I just like want
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: to see new story, right, I don't know, I don't know,
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: And I guess some things are just there for entertainment.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: And we don't need big whatever or whatever. Mute two mute.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, and this era. I was about to
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: make a terrible joke go about the mewtwo movement anyway, Okay,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: sorry everything, mute the hashtag mutube movement. You're evil. Oh
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: my god, that's so funny. Okay, three nipples I will give.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: I'll give one to Harriet. I'll give one to miss
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: Bates because she deserves way more of an apology than
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: she got from Emma. And then I'll give my funnel
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: nipple to Bill Ni because I'm dying. You literally said
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: the mutube movement. It's the worst thing I've ever said.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe I need to take a nap. That was unbelievable.
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: Wow Wow, well I I well everyone, I hope it
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: was worth waiting five years because Caitlin just said the
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: mutube movement. Um, I'm gonna get canceled for that. No,
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: I truly like we said it in our in our
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: pride and pressure this episode. But this was very rewarding,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: very cool. Uh. You know, we're not going to read
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: a book for another five years, but thank you. Well,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: we'll do Wuthering Heights in five years. Oh, I don't
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: know about that I take it back. Uh, you know,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: it's just, uh, we're not a buck podcast. It really
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: takes a lot out of us. But he will be back.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: We'll be back. We'll be back next month talking about
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: who knows, maybe Detective Pikachu. Do you do you all
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: want that? Do you home want? That's not enough in
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: the comments? All right, Well there you have it. That
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: was our unlocked Emma episode from our Patreon aka Matreon,
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: where you can subscribe to find even more episodes like that.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: You'll notice we mentioned the Pride and Prejudice episode that
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: we had also covered that month. That's only on the Matreon,
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: So why don't you just, you know, scoot on over
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: to patreon dot com slash bactelcast for that episode and
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: many many others over one hundred bonus episodes, all for
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: five dollars a month. Yeah, and we have such a
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: fun um, we have such a fun community over there.
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 1: You also get to kind of at least when we
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: choose to not ignore the results of polls, which we've
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: only done once or twice and but it's because you're
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: all bullies. But anyway, Um, you also get to vote
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: on a lot of the movies that we cover. Um,
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: you'll get discounts for live events when we're in your area,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: and a bunch of fun benefits. It's a really fun
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: community over there. It's a blast, it's blast and a half.
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: So UM, we hope to see you over there, um,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: or we'll just see you back here on the main feed.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: We got a lot of exciting stuff coming up and
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: with that, UM, have a great I'm trying to think
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: of a fun Emma way to oh, but I can't remember.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: I mean bee boop fairly well something something, No, we're
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: bill Oh, now I remember where we talked about Pokemon
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: because Bill Nii, because Bill Nii is in Detective Pikachu,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: and because I was playing a lot of Pokemon on
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: my Nintendo Switch at the time. Yes, that was your
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: Pokemon era and that was my talking about Bill Ni
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: playing Pokemon era. So that paired pretty nicely. Well, we're
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: Bill Ni jumping down the steps in that amazing moment
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: in the movie Emma twenty twenty. Yes, and with that
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: we fare thee well bye bye.