Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Skenes speaks out against MLB's CBA proposal ft. Colin Beazley

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Skenes speaks out against MLB's CBA proposal ft. Colin Beazley · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory. I'm Mark
0:13
Speaker 1: aka Platinum Key in joining me as always as my
0:16
Speaker 1: co host Josh Harrison. Noah Hiles is on his way
0:20
Speaker 1: back from a trip right now, so you get to
0:22
Speaker 1: deal with just the two of us today. We're recording
0:26
Speaker 1: this Sunday afternoon, right after the Pirates lost the series
0:30
Speaker 1: to the Miami Marlins. Pretty tough series in which Pirates
0:34
Speaker 1: won one game. However, they ended up losing the series overall,
0:38
Speaker 1: only scored eight runs the entire series, so the offense
0:43
Speaker 1: really was a little bleak, left a lot of runners
0:46
Speaker 1: on struggle to really drive in some runs. But today
0:51
Speaker 1: we're gonna ignore all that for a little bit and
0:54
Speaker 1: discuss some of the other happenings around the Pirates. First off,
0:58
Speaker 1: with Joey Bart coming back from the injured list. He's
1:02
Speaker 1: on a rehab assignment down Triple A right now. That's
1:04
Speaker 1: about to wrap up. What are the Pirates going to
1:07
Speaker 1: do with Andy Rodriguez and Henry Davis as well? Then
1:10
Speaker 1: we're also going to dig into Ski Paul Skins's recent
1:14
Speaker 1: comments on the CBA negotiations that are going to be
1:17
Speaker 1: occurring once the CBA expires December first, so get Josh's
1:23
Speaker 1: perspective as a former player who you know, had to
1:27
Speaker 1: deal with the labor talks back in twenty twenty two
1:30
Speaker 1: when spring training games were missed. So we'll dig into that,
1:33
Speaker 1: and we'll wrap up to this week's episode with my
1:36
Speaker 1: key of the week going into this upcoming week. So
1:39
Speaker 1: first things first, what are the Pirates going to do
1:43
Speaker 1: with Andy Rodriguez? So, Josh, I'll start with you.
1:47
Speaker 2: Is it that.
1:49
Speaker 1: Weird for a team to carry three catchers or is
1:52
Speaker 1: that something you want to try to avoid.
1:56
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it has to do with
1:57
Speaker 3: team makeup. Is not uncommon, especially when you know one
2:01
Speaker 3: of the catchers may be you know, somebody that's a
2:04
Speaker 3: little versatile that can play a little bit of first
2:06
Speaker 3: base or maybe possibly outfield. That's not uncommon because you know,
2:11
Speaker 3: if that's the case, they're providing a little bit of
2:13
Speaker 3: value to say, okay, we can give guys days off
2:15
Speaker 3: in the field. But also that must mean they're doing
2:17
Speaker 3: something you know, to you know, spark minds or interests,
2:21
Speaker 3: you know, offensively to where they're given you know, good
2:23
Speaker 3: enough at bats that you know constitutes putting a catcher
2:26
Speaker 3: somewhere in the outfield or first base. So for it
2:30
Speaker 3: to be a little far fetched, No, I've seen it
2:32
Speaker 3: done before, and uh, if done the right way, it
2:36
Speaker 3: actually helps, especially you know, in a situation where you
2:39
Speaker 3: might have some catchers that have been banged up. You know,
2:42
Speaker 3: you don't necessarily have to worry about who's going to
2:45
Speaker 3: be the emergency catcher, which every team has an emergency catcher,
2:48
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, utility, you know, infielder, back up,
2:51
Speaker 3: first base, when whatever the case may be. And trust me,
2:54
Speaker 3: those emergency catchers, while they may act like they want
2:57
Speaker 3: to get in and oh yeah, they don't don't want
3:00
Speaker 3: to get in, and it neither does the team want
3:02
Speaker 3: to put those guys in. And obviously, in a situation
3:06
Speaker 3: like this makes things a little dicey because I think
3:09
Speaker 3: Indy has come up and uh, you know, done a
3:12
Speaker 3: little bit offensively to kind of open eyes to say,
3:15
Speaker 3: you know, he's put together some good at bats. So
3:18
Speaker 3: as Joey, you know, makes his way back, I think
3:21
Speaker 3: it does raise a question of what do you do
3:23
Speaker 3: with Indy because obviously, if you do keep him, that's
3:27
Speaker 3: three catchers and obviously somebody's going to be the odd
3:30
Speaker 3: man out. But right now, I think it's like who
3:35
Speaker 3: is the odd man out given this roster? So it
3:39
Speaker 3: definitely raises a question to say, what are you going
3:43
Speaker 3: to do because do you send them back down to
3:45
Speaker 3: get reps. But at the same time, as I said,
3:47
Speaker 3: he's come up and played you know, pretty decent, you know,
3:50
Speaker 3: worthy of you know, him being around, you know, if
3:53
Speaker 3: he's given you know, added value you know at the plate.
3:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he really has provided some serious offense behind
4:01
Speaker 1: at the plate. He has a seven to eighty four
4:03
Speaker 1: ohps after Sunday's game, so that's really good for a catcher.
4:11
Speaker 1: He's running the base pass really well. You know, he's
4:13
Speaker 1: not unathletic. He does have some of that versatility. You know,
4:17
Speaker 1: he was the starting first base for the opening day
4:20
Speaker 1: roster last year, right, so he does have more flexibility
4:24
Speaker 1: than i'd say, like a Joey Bart. We've seen Henry
4:28
Speaker 1: Davis also have flexibility with him playing out in the
4:31
Speaker 1: right field. I don't think the Pirates are gonna want
4:34
Speaker 1: to do that with the way Henry this year, but
4:37
Speaker 1: you know there was flexibility there, at least in the
4:41
Speaker 1: worst possible case scenario. But yeah, you can't send Andy
4:44
Speaker 1: down right now, he's looked really really good.
4:48
Speaker 4: Not just like the.
4:49
Speaker 1: Quality of contact he's making at the plate, but he
4:52
Speaker 1: has like a twenty point nine percent walk rate, so
4:55
Speaker 1: he's getting on base a lot, and he's just bringing
4:58
Speaker 1: a lot of value to the team. Uh, even if
5:02
Speaker 1: he's not, you know, catching every day. I just really
5:06
Speaker 1: like his bat in the lineup. However, the Pirates can
5:09
Speaker 1: work that in.
5:09
Speaker 3: And so with.
5:11
Speaker 1: Joey Bart coming back, Yeah, who is that?
5:14
Speaker 4: I'm an out.
5:15
Speaker 1: I don't think it should be Andy Rodriguez.
5:18
Speaker 4: And I doubt so.
5:19
Speaker 5: Then it's gonna be Henry Davis.
5:22
Speaker 3: As I say, do you do a catcher? In your eyes?
5:24
Speaker 3: If you're keeping the third catcher, there's a position player
5:27
Speaker 3: that is you know, and given that, you know you're
5:31
Speaker 3: down O'Neil, given your down Connor, and you know, until
5:34
Speaker 3: those guys get back, whenever that is you know, who
5:39
Speaker 3: is the guy to go down? There's not really a
5:42
Speaker 3: guy that you could send down unless somebody was you know.
5:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's luck, you know, the cook. Maybe
5:51
Speaker 1: maybe this is the point where you finally, you know,
5:53
Speaker 1: cut ties and release Azuna. But I just don't think
5:58
Speaker 1: you can send Andy back down with the value that
6:00
Speaker 1: he's been providing to this team thus far really encouraging
6:04
Speaker 1: for what Endy was as a prospect before all of
6:07
Speaker 1: these injuries. This is the guy that we saw where
6:10
Speaker 1: he could just spray the ball all over the field,
6:12
Speaker 1: provide quality at bats consistently. Because he was tearing it
6:16
Speaker 1: up in the minors as a prospect, that really blew
6:19
Speaker 1: up on the scene. So this is the end of
6:21
Speaker 1: Rodriguez we had all hoped for. Hopefully that continues and
6:25
Speaker 1: hopefully he stays up in Major League Baseball, even if
6:28
Speaker 1: that means rostering three catchers for a short period of time.
6:32
Speaker 1: If you know, if an injury happens, then you already
6:35
Speaker 1: got the guys on the rosters. So I don't think
6:37
Speaker 1: it's too much of an issue. And yeah, especially if
6:40
Speaker 1: one of them is hitting seven eighty four ohps.
6:42
Speaker 3: So if you with all you mentioned that, with everything
6:46
Speaker 3: that you've mentioned, if you know there is I mean,
6:50
Speaker 3: just given injuries and stuff, they probably still keep Ozone
6:54
Speaker 3: just out of a veteran presence dealing with you know,
6:57
Speaker 3: the hardship. But at the same time, if they want
6:59
Speaker 3: to cut ties, they can cut ties. But you mentioned
7:02
Speaker 3: in Billy Cook that that might be the answer. Yeah,
7:06
Speaker 3: just because you know, Yeah has options and then you
7:09
Speaker 3: know Indy still is there to you know, provide one
7:11
Speaker 3: that third catcher back up. And also, hey, with the injuries,
7:15
Speaker 3: he's swinging a pretty decent bath, there's opportunity for him
7:18
Speaker 3: to you know, continue to be that little bit of
7:20
Speaker 3: a spark that this team may need. With as you
7:23
Speaker 3: mentioned his base running, you're missing Connor, you're missing O'Neil obviously.
7:27
Speaker 3: You know, you look at Mangam as a guy that
7:29
Speaker 3: can provide a little bit of speed, but you know
7:32
Speaker 3: you need some guys that are going to be on
7:34
Speaker 3: the base pass. And given that you said he's been
7:36
Speaker 3: drawing some marks and stuff, I think I have to
7:39
Speaker 3: agree with you that you know, it's gonna be tough
7:41
Speaker 3: to send him down, But at the same time, that's
7:43
Speaker 3: not our decision. But I think he's presented a case
7:46
Speaker 3: that allows for him to, you know, at least fight
7:49
Speaker 3: for them to say, you know, we got to keep
7:50
Speaker 3: this guy around.
7:51
Speaker 1: Exactly all right, And now we're gonna hear a quick
7:55
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8:03
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Speaker 1: Thank you to sea Geek. All right, quick, a little
9:21
Speaker 1: note here after our a word from our sponsors. Colin
9:24
Speaker 1: Beasley is going to be joining us here on Bucco
9:27
Speaker 1: Territory right after. This wasn't expected, but he had a
9:31
Speaker 1: delay on his way to Sacramento. His flight got delayed
9:34
Speaker 1: in JFK, and so we decided to take advantage of
9:38
Speaker 1: his misfortune and have him on to discuss the article
9:42
Speaker 1: Josh and I will dig into right after we hear
9:44
Speaker 1: from Colin. Right now, all right, join me now for
9:47
Speaker 1: the first time ever on Bucco Territory in the airport
9:51
Speaker 1: on his way to Where are you head into, Colin?
9:54
Speaker 5: Right now?
9:55
Speaker 1: It's Sacramento, Sacmo, all right, for the Pirates series against
10:00
Speaker 1: the A's kind of fortunate and unfortunate that we're talking
10:06
Speaker 1: to Colin right now. He was on a plane, texted him,
10:10
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, can't do it tonight and got off
10:14
Speaker 1: the plane and here we are. So thanks for joining us, Colin,
10:17
Speaker 1: under some not exactly great circumstances, but we wanted to
10:22
Speaker 1: have you on to talk about the Paul Skeins comments
10:26
Speaker 1: on the CBA talks that you recently wrote an article
10:29
Speaker 1: about in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Make sure to check
10:32
Speaker 1: the link out in the description below for the full article.
10:36
Speaker 1: But Colin, I just want to ask you a few questions,
10:40
Speaker 1: just from the fan perspective as to what the CBA
10:44
Speaker 1: talks mean for the Pirates, Paul Skins, and just baseball
10:48
Speaker 1: in general. So, Paul Skins, as like a delegate of
10:53
Speaker 1: the MLB Players Association, came out pretty strongly against the
11:00
Speaker 1: proposed deal by the owners where they propose a salary cap.
11:07
Speaker 1: Do you think there's going to be a like are
11:11
Speaker 1: we going to lose baseball games in twenty twenty seven?
11:16
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, Mark, thank you for having me.
11:18
Speaker 4: I'd say I'm happy to be here. I'm not thrilled
11:20
Speaker 4: to be in the terminal of New York's JFK air
11:26
Speaker 4: board three hours after my flight was the most to depart.
11:28
Speaker 4: But it's okay, it is what it is. It'll work out. Yeah,
11:31
Speaker 4: As for your actual your actual question, I was kind
11:36
Speaker 4: of interested in that. I don't think. I think there's
11:41
Speaker 4: definitely a risk that baseball loses games, and frankly, I'm
11:45
Speaker 4: kind of expecting it to happen. I don't I'm not
11:47
Speaker 4: someone who necessarily says that all one hundred and sixty
11:51
Speaker 4: two were going to be lost or anything like that,
11:54
Speaker 4: but I do think that both sides are dug in
11:58
Speaker 4: enough that I wouldn't be shocked to see at least
12:01
Speaker 4: a little bit of baseball loss.
12:03
Speaker 1: Do you think that my conversation saw in twenty twenty
12:05
Speaker 1: two like where spring training games are lost?
12:08
Speaker 4: Maybe a little bit more dramatic than that. But in
12:12
Speaker 4: the context of my conversation with Paul Skeans about this,
12:16
Speaker 4: I asked about it, and I prefaced it by saying, obviously,
12:19
Speaker 4: no one wants games to be lost. No one is
12:22
Speaker 4: actively rooting against games to be lost. But he basically
12:29
Speaker 4: said that if it's an option, if that has to
12:32
Speaker 4: be done in order to get a fair deal for
12:35
Speaker 4: the players and get what they're looking for, then they
12:38
Speaker 4: understand if it has to be done. And obviously no
12:40
Speaker 4: one wants to lose baseball games. Paull Skeins is a
12:43
Speaker 4: fan of baseball. He's a player of baseball. They want
12:45
Speaker 4: to play one point sixty two, but they want something
12:48
Speaker 4: that's that's fair for them, and they don't believe that
12:52
Speaker 4: the first MLB proposal was fair for them. And obviously
12:56
Speaker 4: both Paul Skans and the owners and anyone else has
12:59
Speaker 4: basically said that they expected the first two proposals to
13:02
Speaker 4: be far apart. They expect some negotiating to be done.
13:06
Speaker 4: It makes sense for both sides to propose exactly what
13:09
Speaker 4: they want without any counterproposal at this point, just with
13:13
Speaker 4: where negotiations are. But yeah, I was interested to see
13:17
Speaker 4: just how strongly he was against the initial proposal.
13:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a lot of that can be
13:23
Speaker 1: attributed to just you know, that's the player's position early
13:28
Speaker 1: on here. Ope, still with me, Colin there is all right, Yep,
13:34
Speaker 1: we're back. So yeah, like you said, you know, these
13:38
Speaker 1: initial proposals are initial positions where we're expecting there to
13:43
Speaker 1: be some give and take here. So I wouldn't read
13:46
Speaker 1: in too much of these initials positions. But besides the
13:50
Speaker 1: salary cap where else do you see there being like
13:54
Speaker 1: heavy negotiations going on, Like I feel like minimum players
13:57
Speaker 1: salary could be one point of contention. Are there other
14:01
Speaker 1: issues that you feel like could be a little sticky
14:04
Speaker 1: besides the salary cap?
14:07
Speaker 4: And revenue sharing is a major one and just what
14:09
Speaker 4: percentage of the players get. And something that's very that's
14:13
Speaker 4: talked about a lot and somewhat controversial is exactly how
14:17
Speaker 4: baseball revenue is defined. With things being built like the
14:23
Speaker 4: Battery and other stadium mixed use complexes, there's a lot
14:29
Speaker 4: of leeway as to what actually is baseball revenue and
14:32
Speaker 4: what isn't And the players, of course want share of
14:36
Speaker 4: whatever is baseball revenue, whatever that ends up being. However,
14:39
Speaker 4: what you brought up with the minimum salary, that's something
14:41
Speaker 4: that I do expect to be a major negotiating ploy
14:44
Speaker 4: in here, because right now minimum salaries seven hundred and eighty.
14:49
Speaker 4: The players proposed a one point five million minimum salary,
14:53
Speaker 4: and I think that that's something if the owners are
14:57
Speaker 4: to get a salary cap, I think that raising the
15:00
Speaker 4: minimum salary is a major, major negotiating chip that you
15:04
Speaker 4: can use. If you make this far better for the
15:07
Speaker 4: majority of players, then you could pass something like that. However,
15:10
Speaker 4: if you if you don't then or if if there
15:13
Speaker 4: isn't a salary captain, maybe the majority of players will
15:16
Speaker 4: have to stick with a similar minimum salary like what
15:19
Speaker 4: they have right now.
15:21
Speaker 1: And uh, you mentioned revenue sharing. What would that mean
15:25
Speaker 1: for the Pittsburgh Pirates if the owner's proposal of fifty
15:29
Speaker 1: to fifty revenue sharing where to pass. Does that give
15:33
Speaker 1: the Pirates more revenue to spend or is that just
15:37
Speaker 1: more revenue shared with the players.
15:40
Speaker 4: Frankly, that's something I need to read up a little
15:42
Speaker 4: bit more on, and that I was genuinely asking. He
15:44
Speaker 4: said he has to Yeah, that's something that Paul Skein
15:47
Speaker 4: said he had to bread up on a little.
15:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not an economist, right understand, Yeah.
15:51
Speaker 4: He's not an economist. But the thing that I did
15:54
Speaker 4: find interesting in there is both and this was both
15:58
Speaker 4: proposals were intentionally vague, like both sides wanted to not
16:02
Speaker 4: put all of their cards out on the table, which
16:05
Speaker 4: I get again early negotiating. But one place that they
16:08
Speaker 4: both agreed upon is that TV revenue sharing has to
16:12
Speaker 4: be has to be different than what it was the
16:14
Speaker 4: owners in their salary cap proposal proposed completely splitting local
16:20
Speaker 4: TV revenue down the middle, so that the Dodgers and
16:23
Speaker 4: the Pirates would be making the same amount, even though
16:25
Speaker 4: the Dodgers' TV deal absolutely dwarfs the Pirates, right, and
16:29
Speaker 4: the players negotiated it wasn't they proposed something that it
16:34
Speaker 4: wasn't exactly similar, but it was revamped, it was different
16:38
Speaker 4: from what it is now, and that's a way that
16:40
Speaker 4: they think that competitive balance can be fixed a little bit,
16:43
Speaker 4: even before a cap, So that sort of revenue, that's
16:47
Speaker 4: something that I do think can be changed, and that's
16:49
Speaker 4: something that I do expect given that both sides agree
16:53
Speaker 4: that a change is needed there. They don't agree on
16:55
Speaker 4: whether it's a salary cap, not a salary cap, whatever,
16:58
Speaker 4: but that's a place where there was clear middle ground
17:00
Speaker 4: and clear agreement even in the initial negotiations. So that's
17:05
Speaker 4: something I do expect to change. And I do think
17:08
Speaker 4: that that alone would mean better revenue for the Pittsburgh
17:12
Speaker 4: Pirates and potential ability to spend a little bit more
17:15
Speaker 4: just based on having better TV deal.
17:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, when you look at the teams that
17:20
Speaker 1: own their own TV broadcast stations, right, like the Dodgers,
17:25
Speaker 1: the Cubs, the Yankees, there's a few others. The revenue
17:30
Speaker 1: stream that that allows is a little bit different than
17:34
Speaker 1: what the Pittsburgh Pirates have access to. Final question here
17:39
Speaker 1: for you, Colin, are there any other competitive balance measures
17:42
Speaker 1: that you see that could be added into the CBA
17:45
Speaker 1: outside of a salary cap. I know a lot of
17:48
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh fans look to the salary cap as a way
17:51
Speaker 1: that the Pirates can be more competitive, But is there
17:54
Speaker 1: a way that MLB could implement that where they don't
17:58
Speaker 1: have to, you know, give in or the players don't
18:00
Speaker 1: have to give into the salary cap demands and they
18:03
Speaker 1: can still have competitive balance within the league.
18:08
Speaker 4: I think revenue sharing is a big one, just because
18:11
Speaker 4: we talked about a bit already, but it is something
18:14
Speaker 4: where the Dodgers are making so much more money than
18:16
Speaker 4: the Pirates and come from deeper pocketed owners like that.
18:19
Speaker 4: That is a major competitive balance thing, and it doesn't
18:22
Speaker 4: necessarily need to be a salary cap that fixes it.
18:25
Speaker 4: There's other ways to increase the lower revenue team's ability
18:30
Speaker 4: to spend, and obviously it would be on Bob Nutting
18:33
Speaker 4: and on other owners to spend that money. Like that's
18:36
Speaker 4: something that would still matter, but there would be an
18:39
Speaker 4: opportunity for them to make more revenue and be able
18:41
Speaker 4: to spend that a little bit differently, And I don't
18:43
Speaker 4: have the exact answer for how they would do that.
18:46
Speaker 4: I think that television revenue are certainly a start. I
18:49
Speaker 4: think that enhance revenue sharing and shipping in a little
18:53
Speaker 4: bit more. Whether that is steeper competitive balance penalties that
18:57
Speaker 4: go down to the lower revenue teams or exactly actly
19:00
Speaker 4: how it is, I don't know. Like false Skins, like
19:03
Speaker 4: you said, I'm not an economist, right, I do think
19:06
Speaker 4: that that's something that both sides do kind of realize
19:10
Speaker 4: is a bit of an issue. The players obviously don't
19:13
Speaker 4: think that the competitive balance issue is as big as
19:16
Speaker 4: the owners are making it out to be. They see
19:19
Speaker 4: teams like the San Diego Padres who have spent and
19:22
Speaker 4: had success, and they've seen teams like the Tampa Bay
19:24
Speaker 4: Rays who haven't spent and have had success because they're.
19:27
Speaker 2: More well run.
19:28
Speaker 4: So the Milwaukee Brewers exactly, they see examples and they
19:32
Speaker 4: see that there's not a pure correlation between how much
19:34
Speaker 4: you spend and how much you win. However, they also
19:38
Speaker 4: do realize that there are some changes in baseball. That
19:43
Speaker 4: would benefit everyone that if you can make it a
19:45
Speaker 4: little bit more of a level playing field, some other
19:48
Speaker 4: teams would have better chances to win instead of the
19:53
Speaker 4: same folks that we've seen over the last couple of years.
19:56
Speaker 1: All right, well, it's certainly going to be an interesting
19:58
Speaker 1: offseason December first, when the CBA expires. Looking forward to
20:03
Speaker 1: your coverage of that and the rest of the Pirates
20:05
Speaker 1: season this year. If you haven't yet, make sure to
20:08
Speaker 1: read Collin's article detailing this and more the Lincolns in
20:12
Speaker 1: the description below. Colin, have a great flight to Sacramento.
20:18
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in during your deplaning
20:21
Speaker 1: and reboarding, and hopefully you have smooth flyne the rest
20:25
Speaker 1: of the way here.
20:27
Speaker 4: Thanks Mark, thanks for having me, and yeah, hopefully I'll
20:30
Speaker 4: be in Sacramento road soon.
20:31
Speaker 1: Looking forward to your coverage once you get there. So
20:34
Speaker 1: all right, talk to you soon, Colin. Thanks for coming on.
20:36
Speaker 5: Bye. All right, so.
20:42
Speaker 1: On, let's see, I believe it was Friday or Saturday here.
20:46
Speaker 1: Skeens shared a few comments with the Noah's co worker
20:50
Speaker 1: at the Pittsburgh Post Cassette, Colin Beasley, who published an
20:54
Speaker 1: article on Skeenes's thoughts as a member of the MLB
20:58
Speaker 1: Players Association on the recent negotiations that have occurred. The
21:04
Speaker 1: owners proposed their very first deal, their very first offer,
21:09
Speaker 1: which included a salary cap, and it seems like it's
21:13
Speaker 1: we're getting set up for the first salary cap argument
21:17
Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball since we lost the World Series
21:20
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four.
21:23
Speaker 2: And.
21:25
Speaker 1: Josh has a player. I want to get your thoughts
21:29
Speaker 1: on this. Does a salary cap just instantly draw a
21:32
Speaker 1: line in the sand or do you think there's any
21:34
Speaker 1: room where the players would be willing to accept a
21:37
Speaker 1: salary cap with certain concessions made.
21:42
Speaker 3: I won't speak for those guys because I'm no longer
21:45
Speaker 3: in those active conversations, but just from past, you know, experience,
21:51
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say where exactly the line is. I think
21:54
Speaker 3: there are just some things that for anything that makes sense,
21:59
Speaker 3: there's got to be concessions on both sides. And obviously
22:03
Speaker 3: it's a lot easier when you're dealing with, you know,
22:05
Speaker 3: speaking on the owner's front, you know they're thirty of
22:08
Speaker 3: though you know thirty owners, where as you know collectively,
22:12
Speaker 3: for the players, there's a lot more than that. So
22:15
Speaker 3: This is where things get dicey, where you know they
22:19
Speaker 3: try to pull and put each other against each other,
22:22
Speaker 3: where you know a guy like Paul is speaking from
22:24
Speaker 3: you know, I'm sure he's speaking from a collective group
22:28
Speaker 3: because you know, reading some of the comments, you know,
22:32
Speaker 3: one thing that going forward was you know, players being united,
22:36
Speaker 3: and I think you were able to see that with
22:40
Speaker 3: the last CBA, which I think as things continue to progress,
22:44
Speaker 3: it'll only continue to be more united and more united
22:46
Speaker 3: because obviously, you know what's happened in the past, and
22:49
Speaker 3: as these things continue to come forward, you're only going
22:52
Speaker 3: to look at what's happened in the past. And you
22:54
Speaker 3: know with the first offer, one, you never expect the
22:57
Speaker 3: first offer to be good. But two, with the whole
23:00
Speaker 3: salary cap thing been mentioned, whether that's been mentioned or not,
23:03
Speaker 3: that's always been something that has been thrown around every CBA,
23:06
Speaker 3: whether it's been considered to be on the table or
23:09
Speaker 3: off the table. So for that to come to light,
23:12
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a surprise to anybody because there's
23:15
Speaker 3: something that's always going to be you know, talked about.
23:18
Speaker 3: But to say that the line is there, I can't
23:20
Speaker 3: say yes, I can't say no. Because you know there
23:23
Speaker 3: are a lot more other pressing issues more than just
23:26
Speaker 3: a salary cap. And you know, Paul obviously, you know,
23:30
Speaker 3: spoke on what he spoke on, but I think even
23:32
Speaker 3: just a little bit of the article alluded to you know,
23:34
Speaker 3: it's more than just a salary cap. But you know,
23:38
Speaker 3: this is definitely a starting point for you to say
23:41
Speaker 3: things can be ugly, because obviously you know they're not
23:44
Speaker 3: going to be anywhere close to what you know would
23:47
Speaker 3: be agreeable. And you know, it all becomes reminiscent, you know,
23:51
Speaker 3: of where we were in twenty one or twenty two,
23:53
Speaker 3: because you know, Paul even said, you know, this is
23:57
Speaker 3: going to get ugly, and you know he said, probably
24:00
Speaker 3: not much is going to be happened until that time
24:02
Speaker 3: gets close, right, And you know this here we are injury.
24:06
Speaker 1: Too, right is we didn't really feel like there's any
24:08
Speaker 1: momentum until spring training games started to be missed, and then.
24:12
Speaker 3: Well you could see it once the World Series happened.
24:16
Speaker 3: There were a few signings right before December first, and
24:19
Speaker 3: once December first happened, it was okay. And as you said,
24:24
Speaker 3: nothing really happened or nobody felt the pressure until spring
24:28
Speaker 3: training games were missed, and I don't want to say
24:30
Speaker 3: nobody felt the pressure. I think I know all of
24:33
Speaker 3: us players knew what could happen. I'm not sure the
24:36
Speaker 3: owners were prepared, and I'm not sure the fans were.
24:41
Speaker 3: But there are also things that I'm sure both sides
24:44
Speaker 3: probably could have looked at the say, oh, this could
24:46
Speaker 3: have been done differently. But with games being missed in
24:48
Speaker 3: spring last year, I don't think it's far fetched to
24:50
Speaker 3: say that, you know, you could be looking at the
24:53
Speaker 3: same thing coming, you know, this year. Obviously you hope
24:56
Speaker 3: to prevent it, but obviously, reading in between the line
25:00
Speaker 3: a little bit with Paul's words and other words from
25:02
Speaker 3: other people, you expect to get a lot more worse,
25:05
Speaker 3: a lot worse before it gets better. So I having
25:10
Speaker 3: gone through it, I don't think anybody that's playing right now,
25:13
Speaker 3: obviously this is on the forefront of their mind. They
25:15
Speaker 3: obviously know what can happen. But there's business to handle
25:18
Speaker 3: for those guys as they got these next couple months
25:20
Speaker 3: ahead of them. But you know, they also have to
25:23
Speaker 3: be up with going what's going on, you know, and
25:25
Speaker 3: in their future, right And how do you feel as
25:29
Speaker 3: a fan reading some I was gonna say, how do
25:31
Speaker 3: you feel as a fan reading some of the comments,
25:32
Speaker 3: because obviously no fan wants to see you know, Oh,
25:35
Speaker 3: we don't want to miss games because y'all remember spring training.
25:38
Speaker 3: There are some people that remember obviously the World Series,
25:40
Speaker 3: you know, ninety four, you know, so there are vivid
25:44
Speaker 3: memories because these things are not far off. But at
25:46
Speaker 3: the same time, from a fan perspective, obviously no one
25:50
Speaker 3: wants to miss games. And hearing these words and seeing
25:53
Speaker 3: these words, how do you feel about it?
25:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's super concerning as a fan, And
25:59
Speaker 1: I think Pirates fans have a pretty unique perspective as well,
26:02
Speaker 1: because amongst like the fan bases, I feel like Pirates
26:06
Speaker 1: fans more than anyone want the competitive balance fixes to
26:10
Speaker 1: be implemented, however that may be.
26:13
Speaker 5: But I will say I don't think a.
26:15
Speaker 1: Salary cap is the only way to solve the competitive
26:19
Speaker 1: balance problems.
26:21
Speaker 3: Obviously.
26:21
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty two, they try to implement a luxury tax
26:24
Speaker 1: that would, you know, penalize teams from spending over a
26:29
Speaker 1: certain amount, and the Dodgers basically looked at that and said,
26:32
Speaker 1: all right, bet and signed Kyle Tucker despite having to
26:36
Speaker 1: pay one hundred plus percent of their salary they gave them,
26:39
Speaker 1: so they're signing a guy for over one hundred twenty
26:42
Speaker 1: million or whatever it is.
26:45
Speaker 4: You know, just.
26:46
Speaker 1: Ridiculous, so that you feel like has to change. But
26:51
Speaker 1: I just the salary cap just doesn't make a lot
26:53
Speaker 1: of sense. I don't think you're ever gonna if you're
26:55
Speaker 1: a player, why would you agree to cap your salary.
26:59
Speaker 1: I like how the NFL has done it. Jeff Passing
27:05
Speaker 1: just this past weekend or like a week ago, published
27:08
Speaker 1: an article where he dives into how each league has
27:12
Speaker 1: implemented the salary cap, for the NBA, the NFL, and
27:16
Speaker 1: the NHL, and it seems like the NFL where they
27:19
Speaker 1: tie league revenue to what the salary cap actually is
27:24
Speaker 1: so that the salary cap will grow and shrink. And
27:28
Speaker 1: it's grown every single year then except for the COVID
27:30
Speaker 1: year for the NFL, so that at least would help
27:33
Speaker 1: to increase player salaries. But with the salary cap, you're
27:36
Speaker 1: picking players against players then right where you're like, Okay,
27:40
Speaker 1: if I signed this much on my team, someone else
27:42
Speaker 1: on my team isn't going to get a portion of
27:44
Speaker 1: that cap. And I think that's what's nice about baseball
27:49
Speaker 1: is that you can have a system without a cap,
27:53
Speaker 1: but I just hope they figure out. And there's gonna
27:55
Speaker 1: be a lot of other issues besides competitive balance, you know,
27:59
Speaker 1: TV deals, minimum salaries, so many other things, and the
28:04
Speaker 1: details are going to fluctuate quite a bit. I'll wrap
28:07
Speaker 1: it up by just saying I did find it interesting
28:09
Speaker 1: that the salary cap floor was I think it was
28:12
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventy four or one hundred and seventy
28:14
Speaker 1: five million, So Pirates would have to spend a lot
28:18
Speaker 1: more to reach that number, which would be fun as.
28:22
Speaker 3: A fair to see that as other teams would.
28:25
Speaker 1: Exactly, not just the Pirates. Yeah, so that would be interesting.
28:29
Speaker 1: I did find it unique and kind of raise my
28:34
Speaker 1: eyebrows that all thirty owners agreed to this proposal, which
28:38
Speaker 1: means that it seems like they could afford to have
28:41
Speaker 1: salaries that high. Obviously that comes with the concession of
28:44
Speaker 1: revenue sharing and all that, but I mean it still
28:48
Speaker 1: kind of raises your eyebrows, like, so you can do
28:50
Speaker 1: this if you're forced to, but you just don't want
28:54
Speaker 1: to do it without it. So it's going to be
28:56
Speaker 1: an interesting offseason. I'd say prepared to miss at least
29:00
Speaker 1: training games. Hopefully not more than that, and buckle up.
29:04
Speaker 1: We'll be here to break it down all the updates
29:07
Speaker 1: of this offseason, I'm sure along the way with you.
29:09
Speaker 5: So any final thoughts on that, Josh, none other than
29:15
Speaker 5: you know, just you know, taking a day at a time.
29:19
Speaker 3: I remember when a new broke I was at a
29:22
Speaker 3: dance competition in Pigeon Forge and I had to step
29:26
Speaker 3: outside and it was just like, oh man, you know
29:29
Speaker 3: a lot of us from home during you know times
29:32
Speaker 3: day it was awkward, but you gotta stay ready. You
29:35
Speaker 3: still work out, and you know, because it could break
29:37
Speaker 3: any time. But at the same time, it'll be interesting
29:41
Speaker 3: to see, you know, just how serious things get, because
29:45
Speaker 3: if no games really want to be missed, I think
29:47
Speaker 3: they will somewhat try to negotiate as they are going
29:51
Speaker 3: and won't wait until that freeze out period. But that's
29:54
Speaker 3: ultimately kind of how negotiations work, with you know, trying
29:58
Speaker 3: to put fired to someone they're trying to you know,
30:02
Speaker 3: and who's going to be the first one to concede
30:04
Speaker 3: or back down. And obviously, as I said, we just
30:07
Speaker 3: went through this four years ago, so who knows where
30:12
Speaker 3: we go. But obviously you would hope that there would
30:15
Speaker 3: be some things that are learned from four years ago.
30:17
Speaker 3: And obviously you know from the beginning there's going to
30:20
Speaker 3: be some you're going to be a ways apart because
30:22
Speaker 3: both sides are going to be stubborn in what they want,
30:25
Speaker 3: and I mean that's expected, but you know, at some
30:28
Speaker 3: point there's going to have to be some give if
30:30
Speaker 3: they want to continue to have a season and you know,
30:32
Speaker 3: not miss games. But you know that's also a risk
30:37
Speaker 3: that you know, guys also understand as there's a possibility. No,
30:40
Speaker 3: we don't want to miss any but you know, this
30:42
Speaker 3: is bigger than you know myself. This is about those
30:45
Speaker 3: that came before me, and that's about those that are
30:47
Speaker 3: going to come after me. So that's where you see
30:50
Speaker 3: a lot more guys more united because obviously there's a
30:52
Speaker 3: lot more information than there was in years past. So
30:56
Speaker 3: not to get you know, too deep into it. You know,
30:59
Speaker 3: we'll only see what happens. But until then, let's enjoy
31:02
Speaker 3: some good baseball and hope that great baseball will lead
31:05
Speaker 3: to some great talks.
31:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's just hope that they don't let this
31:09
Speaker 1: awesome momentum that MLB has been experiencing the growth these
31:12
Speaker 1: past few years. Yeah, don't let that it is. The
31:17
Speaker 1: momentum behind the sport is real. I know, like just
31:21
Speaker 1: for me as a newer fan, I've experienced it. It's
31:24
Speaker 1: it's in a great, great spot. So hopefully they, you know,
31:27
Speaker 1: don't mess that up, make the same mistakes that they
31:30
Speaker 1: made in the past with ninety four where they had
31:32
Speaker 1: all that momentum and they flopped again. So hopefully that
31:38
Speaker 1: means we get an agreement and we get some baseball
31:40
Speaker 1: here soon.
31:40
Speaker 5: But who knows.
31:41
Speaker 1: Should be fun. So now a quick word from our sponsors.
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Speaker 5: All right, and.
32:50
Speaker 2: Now my Key to the Week segment. All right, this
33:02
Speaker 2: week's Key of the Week.
33:03
Speaker 1: I wanted to highlight how much Jake Mingham has stepped
33:07
Speaker 1: up with both Connor Griffin and O'Neil Cruz out to
33:11
Speaker 1: the speed sers on this team, and Jake Mingham has
33:14
Speaker 1: brought a ton of offense to this team in the
33:17
Speaker 1: last fifteen games since those guys have been out, he
33:21
Speaker 1: has a nine hundred and fifty two OPS in his
33:26
Speaker 1: last fifteen games. He's batting four oh four in that stretch,
33:30
Speaker 1: nineteen hits, five RBI, two walks, seven stolen bases. So
33:36
Speaker 1: that's just in the last fifteen games, just tearing it
33:40
Speaker 1: up on the base pass causing absolute chaos. There's been
33:44
Speaker 1: a couple of times where he's maybe been a little
33:46
Speaker 1: too aggressive where we've seen him try and you steal
33:48
Speaker 1: third in situations where probably didn't need to. But at
33:52
Speaker 1: the same time, overall that aggression has really benefited the
33:56
Speaker 1: Pirates and he's been a massive part of this offense lately.
34:00
Speaker 1: So my key of the week is just Jake Maingum
34:03
Speaker 1: continuing that success. Uh, continuing to put the ball in play.
34:08
Speaker 5: Uh.
34:08
Speaker 1: Just continuing to be who Jake Maingum is and cause
34:12
Speaker 1: that mayhem on the field that leads defenses to try
34:15
Speaker 1: and overreact. We saw it in Sunday's game. He would
34:19
Speaker 1: have reached safe safely first base. I think it was
34:21
Speaker 1: his second hit of the day, ball got airmailed over
34:24
Speaker 1: the first baseman.
34:25
Speaker 4: Uh.
34:26
Speaker 1: And it's just because you had You know that the
34:29
Speaker 1: clock that you have with Jake maingham sprinting down that
34:31
Speaker 1: first baseline is so limited that it's going to force
34:35
Speaker 1: teams into the errors that we've been seeing.
34:37
Speaker 5: Uh.
34:38
Speaker 1: So just my key of the week is more of
34:40
Speaker 1: that from Jake Maingum because it has really benefited the
34:43
Speaker 1: Pirates in a time where they need it. Josh a
34:47
Speaker 1: guy who you got compared to Jake Maingum here on
34:51
Speaker 1: the broadcast when you hopped on with Greg Brown. What
34:55
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on that and what you see in
34:57
Speaker 1: Jake Maingum that has you know, made him a big
35:00
Speaker 1: leaguer here that the players can rely on in the stretch.
35:05
Speaker 3: Maingle madness or mangle mayhem, whatever we call it. Yeah,
35:11
Speaker 3: guy that plays, you know, with a lot of energy,
35:13
Speaker 3: plays hard. And I was laughing because I think I
35:17
Speaker 3: know it was the game we were at when you mentioned,
35:19
Speaker 3: you know, the base still us like, oh many did
35:21
Speaker 3: that with no outs and then I think Triollo hit
35:24
Speaker 3: the double. But you know it's a situation where you know,
35:28
Speaker 3: hopefully he doesn't make those mistakes. Obviously, that was the
35:32
Speaker 3: Dodgers in town, and you know, sometimes maybe that excitement
35:35
Speaker 3: of all man that was a big inning where they were,
35:37
Speaker 3: you know, the place was rocking, and sometimes you know,
35:39
Speaker 3: you black out and forget the situation. And I'm sure
35:42
Speaker 3: if he could have gone back, he would have been like,
35:44
Speaker 3: oh man, I shouldn't have tried to steal with no outs.
35:46
Speaker 3: But you mentioned over the last fifteen games his numbers,
35:50
Speaker 3: you're missing two key guys and kind of Griffin O'Neil cruise.
35:53
Speaker 3: I know we keep saying it, but uh we said,
35:55
Speaker 3: guys are gonna have to step up, you know, different
35:57
Speaker 3: guys every night, whoever may be. But not only that
36:00
Speaker 3: mentioned seven stolen bases, I'm doing a little bit of everything.
36:04
Speaker 3: Not only do you mention still in bases, you know
36:07
Speaker 3: nine fifty two ops. That means these extra base hits,
36:11
Speaker 3: you know, getting on base, on runs, playing good defense.
36:14
Speaker 3: These are things that you need from guys that are
36:16
Speaker 3: going to step in and you know when you're missing guys,
36:20
Speaker 3: and it's pretty cool to see a guy that you
36:22
Speaker 3: know plays with that type of energy, you know, still
36:25
Speaker 3: causing that mayhem or that mania, because you know that's
36:29
Speaker 3: one of the things as a defender, you know, the
36:32
Speaker 3: guys on the other side that are going to put
36:33
Speaker 3: pressure on you. Oh man, this dude is gonna run
36:36
Speaker 3: down the line hard, and you know, just knowing that
36:38
Speaker 3: sometimes will speed up a guy and that's just enough
36:41
Speaker 3: to make a guy fumble the ball or not get
36:43
Speaker 3: a good grip, and uh, you know, sometimes that free
36:46
Speaker 3: ninety will lead to you know, extra runs. There's more pressure,
36:49
Speaker 3: and Jake's been doing a good job of that, even
36:52
Speaker 3: you know in those situations where it might not have
36:54
Speaker 3: you know, been beneficial to the team. Those are plays
36:57
Speaker 3: that sometimes, you know, managers are willing to deal with
37:00
Speaker 3: because you know that that guy might inspire somebody else
37:03
Speaker 3: to be a little bit more aggressive, maybe in a
37:04
Speaker 3: different spot. But every situation is a learning you know,
37:08
Speaker 3: learning situation, and you know what guy's feed off of that.
37:12
Speaker 1: And it's not like Jake Ingham's been. You know, he's
37:14
Speaker 1: not going to have a nine to fifty ops all
37:17
Speaker 1: the time. Right this is a hot streak, and you know,
37:21
Speaker 1: I recognize that his ops this year is seven fifteen.
37:25
Speaker 1: He's batting three h two, so it's not like he's
37:27
Speaker 1: going to be hitting.
37:28
Speaker 4: For power a lot.
37:29
Speaker 1: But he plays that role in this team of just
37:33
Speaker 1: being that gritty, you know guy that we saw it
37:36
Speaker 1: when the Pirates played against him last year when he
37:40
Speaker 1: was on the Rays, where he just messed with the
37:43
Speaker 1: Pirate's head constantly when he would get on base, you
37:45
Speaker 1: have to worry about him. Throws off the whole rhythm
37:48
Speaker 1: and just has the ability to at least put the
37:51
Speaker 1: ball in play. I don't know if they're always like
37:53
Speaker 1: the best swings. Sometimes you see like a ball that's
37:56
Speaker 1: like a foot off the plate that he's making contact on,
37:59
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, maybe you just let that one go
38:02
Speaker 1: by you, but really appreciate the work Jake Mangum has
38:07
Speaker 1: been putting in when this team is needed most. So
38:10
Speaker 1: just wanted to show him from shine and highlight him
38:13
Speaker 1: for my Key of the Week this week. Any final
38:16
Speaker 1: thoughts before we wrap up this episode here, Josh.
38:20
Speaker 3: I like the Key of the week, and something else
38:23
Speaker 3: that would be pretty key would be you all hitting
38:25
Speaker 3: that subscriber that follow up. We're making our way to
38:28
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38:32
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Speaker 3: ready to we appreciate you as well. And while you're
38:38
Speaker 3: at it, go hit the store. Make sure you get
38:41
Speaker 3: some swag support Buckle Territory, some pretty cool stuff. Obviously
38:47
Speaker 3: you're gonna see some stuff up there that you might
38:49
Speaker 3: look like it might not need it right now, but
38:51
Speaker 3: you never know. In October playoff baseball if that's possible. Hey,
38:54
Speaker 3: you might need that scully or that lug. So a
38:57
Speaker 3: lot of cool stuff. And that's pretty much it. You
39:00
Speaker 3: got anything, Mark.
39:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, just one final thought, I really liked what weapon
39:04
Speaker 1: seeing how Bubba Chandler. He has really improved his control,
39:10
Speaker 1: looks like the Bubba Chandler that we've expected. I didn't
39:13
Speaker 1: want to spend a whole segment talking about it, but
39:15
Speaker 1: he's looked a lot better his last two starts, super encouraging.
39:19
Speaker 1: I still am such a believer in the ceiling of
39:22
Speaker 1: Bubba Chandlers, so hopefully that continues with his starts this week.
39:27
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to give him a little shout
39:29
Speaker 1: out because I appreciate what he's been doing. So on
39:33
Speaker 1: that note, I'm platinum and don't go ahead.
39:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, and as I'm saying one more thing, it wouldn't
39:39
Speaker 3: be right just because he's not here. No, I will
39:42
Speaker 3: we need congratulate. Congratulations to your New York Knicks. I'm
39:46
Speaker 3: sure you are celebrating having a great time. I'm sure
39:49
Speaker 3: we're here, but we will hear about it on the
39:51
Speaker 3: next episode. Oh yeah, just want to give a shout
39:54
Speaker 3: out to his New York Knicks because obviously we know
39:56
Speaker 3: he probably will wear his hat.
39:58
Speaker 2: Oh.
39:58
Speaker 1: I guarantee there will be a kind of mixed merchandise
40:01
Speaker 1: on the next episode of Bucko Territory.
40:03
Speaker 5: So yeah, championship, Yeah, No one will be.
40:07
Speaker 1: Back for Wednesday's episode and moving forward. So uh for
40:12
Speaker 1: Platinum or for Josh Harrison and Noah Hailes, I'm platinum
40:16
Speaker 1: key uh signing off of another episode of Bucko Territory,
40:19
Speaker 1: presented to you by the Foul Territory Network