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ISTE Refelctions · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

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Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
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podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
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Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
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conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
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and let's integrate this. Welcome to the Integrate
0:41
This EdTech podcast. We're excited to bring you
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this episode here today as I am currently sitting
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in my hotel room at the ISTE conference, which
0:53
just wrapped up yesterday. And so our plan here
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for today is David and I are gonna chat about
0:59
the conference, you know, some of the fun things
1:02
that took place, some of the exciting new releases
1:05
that might be coming out here in the near future,
1:09
as well as some kind of takeaways from the conference
1:12
itself. So thanks for joining us. And if you
1:16
weren't at the ISTE conference, you know, maybe
1:18
this is kind of that thing that will want you
1:21
to go next here, because it's just such a great
1:24
event with 15 ,000 educators that, you know,
1:28
are very passionate about improving the educational
1:32
experiences of their students. And that just
1:34
makes it a super wonderful place to be. And David,
1:38
I know you didn't get to go this year. Yeah,
1:41
I get to play interviewer this year for Jeremy,
1:44
which is fun in and of itself. But I wish I could
1:48
have been there with you after spending the last
1:50
two years in Philadelphia and in Denver. But
1:54
I will be with you next year in Orlando. We will
1:57
do that for sure. Perfect. But yeah, this year
2:00
I'll just play the interviewer. You get the not
2:03
at ISTE role here, right? Yep. Yeah, but I will
2:08
say it was like I already mentioned to you, you
2:10
know, it was really fun just to see some of the
2:13
pictures that you dropped and some of the people
2:15
that you got to meet up with that we've either
2:19
already interviewed or, you know, have coming
2:21
up on the podcast. So really fun to see some
2:24
of that stuff. But let's start at the beginning,
2:26
because I think a lot of people don't know. I
2:28
mean, obviously, you and Mark through ECMEC,
2:32
your organization, have been going to ISTE for
2:35
a long time now. And one of the really cool things
2:37
that you do is that ECMEC actually sponsors so
2:42
that teachers are able in your region are able
2:45
to attend ISTE with you, kind of like on scholarships,
2:49
right? And then there's a little bit tied to
2:52
that because of the like ECMEC conference that's
2:55
coming up in about a month. But can you talk
2:58
just a little bit about maybe about the the sponsorship
3:01
opportunities and how that all works and then
3:04
what was the journey like getting down to San
3:06
Antonio? Sure, so this started even before I
3:10
went to work at ECMEC and I was still teaching
3:13
social studies in Malacca which is one of the
3:17
schools that's part of the ECMEC cooperative
3:19
and ECMEC at that time and that was probably
3:23
about 2017 or 2018 had this idea that hey, this
3:28
amazing ISTE conference is out there and we just
3:32
need to get people there. And so Mark began this
3:36
plan of putting together a scholarship to bring
3:40
teachers from the different districts of our
3:43
cooperative together, not just to attend the
3:46
conference, but when you travel as that group
3:48
of educators, right, you get to know each other
3:50
and you're making connections with other people
3:52
in different districts and you find a way to
3:55
network with them. And so, excuse me, they began
3:59
this scholarship idea where it's oftentimes hard
4:04
for districts to be able to pay for airfare and
4:08
hotels for the length of the conference. They're
4:11
used to paying conference registration fees,
4:14
but not for the travel and lodging expenses.
4:16
So they started this scholarship program where
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ECMEC will pay for teachers that apply and receive
4:23
for a scholarship to attend the ISTE conference.
4:27
So we pay for the airfare. for the hotel stays
4:33
as well as ground transportation like back and
4:36
forth from the airport. And then the teacher
4:40
and their district are then responsible for the
4:43
registration for the conference part of it. So
4:46
it works out to be a great kind of partnership
4:50
between the districts and our cooperative to
4:53
send these people to the conference. We don't
4:55
ask. We do ask something in return for their
4:59
experience though their requirement is that when
5:03
they come back to Minnesota again, and we have
5:09
our regional EdTech conference that we host called
5:13
Lake ECMEC. And that happens in that first or
5:16
second week of August every year. And we ask
5:19
that they be presenters at that conference for
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a breakout session. So in return for them getting
5:25
all of this knowledge and experience and finding
5:29
out about new tools, new tips. tips and tricks
5:32
and pedagogies and everything, they get to come
5:35
back and they get to host their own breakout
5:37
session. So we get to have them as presenters,
5:40
which is really kind of fun, too. So that's where
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that really kind of all began. You know, this
5:46
is my fifth time attending an ISTE conference.
5:50
I attended that first one as a scholarship person
5:53
that was in Chicago, like I said, in 2017 or
5:57
2018. And then I've been to the last four. So
6:01
New Orleans, Philadelphia and Denver that David
6:05
you went on also and then this one this year
6:08
was in San Antonio. So that's why we're still
6:11
here. We fly back here shortly but you know we
6:15
thought this would be a great time to give some
6:17
reflections about it. We've had a great time
6:20
here in San Antonio. It is an absolutely beautiful
6:23
city. Our hotel is literally right on the river
6:28
walk. I can look outside and I could see those
6:32
little tour boats that go passing by every so
6:35
often and people walking about. It's just been
6:38
fantastic. Really, really loved it here. Cool.
6:42
Can you tell us a little bit about, I saw like
6:44
one of the pictures right away from the first
6:46
night, because you guys actually went out to
6:47
eat, which is pretty customary. I mean, you guys
6:49
do that every year, like once you get to the
6:51
actual city from the airport ride and all that
6:53
type of stuff. um you guys went out um and can
6:58
you talk about what what you did once you landed
7:00
and then also i would say really important is
7:03
um the vibe of the opening ceremony which is
7:06
always a great kickoff they have really great
7:09
guests that you know uh richard colada obviously
7:11
he uh he has the the mic for a bit and kind of
7:16
kicks things off they have great speakers too
7:18
every year can you talk a little bit about the
7:21
that that first night yeah Yeah, so when we we
7:25
got here we went to got into our hotel rooms
7:28
right and then we decided to all go out and have
7:31
lunch together because that's kind of what we
7:33
do you know as this big group and and people
7:35
are still getting to know each other in our group
7:37
we brought including Mark and I there were 11
7:41
of us that were part of our group which is really
7:44
great size right and we went out to eat at this
7:48
authentic mess Tex Mexican restaurant. And so
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we got. You know, I'm going to say we had a beverage
7:56
or so while we were there because San Antonio
7:59
is known as the margarita capital of the world.
8:03
So I'm not going to say that I didn't participate
8:06
in that at least once while I was down here.
8:10
And it was just some fantastic food, right? Then
8:14
we kind of regroup. We walk back over to the
8:17
convention center, the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention
8:20
Center right in downtown San Antonio. where the
8:23
conference was held. And if you've not been to
8:26
a large conference like ISTE before, the enormity
8:30
of these buildings is just insane. And you can't
8:34
imagine how they can fit 15 ,000 people or so
8:38
inside of one of these great big huge auditorium
8:42
style places where they will bring on the big
8:46
keynote speakers that are there each day. And
8:49
it really is a fantastic experience. to be able
8:53
to take that in. Kind of one of the things that
8:56
Richard Collada, you mentioned him, the CEO of
8:59
ISTE and ASCD, kind of challenged people. It's
9:03
like, okay, by the time you're done with this
9:05
conference, you should have three things. You
9:07
should learn a new skill. You should learn a
9:14
new skill, have a new question, and meet a new
9:18
friend. And so if I think about those, oh wow,
9:21
I'm checking every single box after these last
9:24
three days. And I know we'll talk about some
9:26
of the new things that I learned and stuff along
9:29
the way, but it definitely sometimes you walk
9:32
away with just as many questions sometimes as
9:35
new things that you learn. So I'm excited to
9:37
dive into some of those. new ways of thinking
9:41
that I'm kind of starting to embrace here too,
9:44
which I think we'll also touch on. And then,
9:47
you know, you can't not... meet lots of new people
9:50
while you are here. And one of those people that
9:54
I met was an educator from the Seattle area.
9:58
And her and I both attended this event by Magic
10:01
School together. And we just had a great about
10:04
hour long conversation just getting to know each
10:06
other. Her name is Lisa. And if she's watching,
10:10
hey, Lisa, shout out to you and your people from
10:12
Seattle area. But just really need to be able
10:15
to do all of those different things. And then
10:18
they bring on some well -known people that come
10:21
on and they give great and inspiring messages.
10:25
I can't remember off the top of my head who was
10:27
there the first day though, you're putting me
10:28
on the spot. But I know they delivered great
10:31
messages. Yeah, that's okay. it's been a long
10:37
few days. So I'm sure it kind of blends together
10:39
a little bit. But yeah, I mean, from Sunday through
10:42
Wednesday, right? Four days of, you know, pretty
10:46
much wall to wall, you know, conference related
10:49
activities, right? Yeah. And they do a great
10:52
job with like keynote speakers that they bring
10:54
on every year. And then, you know, obviously,
10:57
just a like massive amount of sessions that you
11:03
can attend and everything and But one of the
11:06
really cool things that they do is, with all
11:08
the professional development opportunities that
11:10
are part of the conference, they always try to
11:12
tie in something really unique things about the
11:17
area that the conference is being hosted in,
11:19
right? And we've seen this the last few years.
11:22
And so when you're looking at San Antonio, one
11:25
of the first things that you attended was the
11:28
Capturing the Heart of San Antonio, a photo walk
11:30
adventure. That's like a really unique way to
11:34
kick things off, right? What was that about?
11:36
Or what did you notice about San Antonio that
11:38
was really cool? So there's there's a group of
11:41
three educators and each year they do a session
11:45
at this at the like the very first opportunity.
11:49
in the city wherever it is, right? They come
11:52
to the town, the city, the location, a day or
11:55
two early, and they go scout out different places
11:58
that they want to be able to walk to and lead
12:00
people on, kind of like a sightseeing tour with
12:04
some great photo opportunities of that particular
12:07
city. So the three people that put this on, this
12:12
was really crazy. This was like one of those
12:14
moments where you make connections to a part
12:18
of your past that you don't see coming. And one
12:23
of the people that leads the photo walk tour,
12:26
her name is Rita Mortenson. So Rita, if you're
12:30
Watching two, that's really awesome. Rita is
12:34
an educator, instructional technology specialist
12:37
also from the Verona School District, Verona
12:41
Area School District in Verona, Wisconsin. You
12:44
know, go Wildcats, which I am a 1994 graduate
12:48
of, and she was a teacher at that school when
12:52
I went through that high school. She was a business
12:55
teacher at the time, so I never took any business
12:57
classes and I didn't have her as a teacher. but
12:59
she was a teacher in that school and as we started
13:02
talking you know about hey do you know this person
13:06
that person sort of thing you know it was really
13:09
kind of like became a parent to me, I remember
13:11
her. And so we made this connection here. So
13:15
I don't know if it's a new friendship or an old
13:16
friendship, you know, one of those little Richard
13:19
Collada check marks off of the things that you're
13:21
supposed to do. But it was really cool. And so
13:24
got a picture of the two of us together. I'm
13:26
going to make sure that I'm going to put a post
13:28
out on Instagram of some of the cool people I
13:31
got to to interact with. And Rita, you're definitely
13:34
one of them. But anyway, so, you know, actually
13:37
back to your question here. So from the convention
13:41
center, we started there. There's a lot of cool
13:45
sculptures that are in this area of downtown
13:49
San Antonio that we definitely went and took
13:51
a look at. So you get some of that great artistic
13:55
vibe that the city has. But of course, you know,
13:58
then any tour is gonna wind up on the Riverwalk.
14:01
And so we stopped at some great places along
14:03
the Riverwalk, like one of the, maybe I'm dating
14:07
myself here, but I remember the movie. from the
14:09
early 2000s. It's called Miss Congeniality with
14:13
Sandra Bullock. David, are you familiar with
14:15
Miss Congeniality? So there's that moment in
14:18
there where they're doing the, I don't know,
14:21
the interview portion of the... contest, the
14:26
Miss America contest or whatever it is, right?
14:29
That scene was filmed on the river walk. So the
14:32
stage that the contestants are walking across
14:34
is right on the river walk. And then people can
14:37
look at it from across the river and stuff. But
14:40
really kind of a neat thing. And I'm like, oh,
14:42
I remember that exact spot from the movie. So
14:45
that's that's like one of those things. And the
14:47
Riverwalk itself, just the the amount of vegetation
14:51
that's there is so unique and so awesome. You
14:55
know, you're seeing people everywhere, whether
14:57
they're just kind of touristy sightseeing or
15:00
people using it to exercise. But then the amount
15:03
of cool restaurants and buildings that are located
15:07
right along the Riverwalk to is just really cool.
15:09
and it's a lot of fun. So we stopped and took
15:12
some great pictures of things along there. But
15:16
then they also would share with us too. So there
15:19
was a little bit of a learning experience in
15:21
it too. So giving people just kind of like some
15:23
tips, right, for taking pictures with your fonts.
15:27
and some unique perspectives that you can use
15:30
and how you can slightly angle things or change,
15:34
you know, maybe try it in a certain photograph
15:36
in black and white versus always in color. A
15:41
couple of other kind of some cool tips and tricks
15:44
along the way, too. So that was actually I had
15:47
tried to sign up for this the last couple of
15:49
years for ISTE conferences, but they always fill
15:52
up so fast. So that is going to be the first
15:55
one that I tried to register for when they when
15:59
they open sessions up for Orlando for next year.
16:02
And then I'll get to see Miss Mortenson again.
16:05
So, yeah, yeah, I'll try to join you for that,
16:07
too. Yeah, for sure. I'm going to let you know
16:09
for sure. Okay. Um, yeah, and then maybe we try
16:13
like a live walking podcast where we're kind
16:16
of like, that'd be cool. Let's turn it on and
16:19
people can join us and watch it on YouTube or
16:22
something like that while we're doing it. Yeah,
16:24
yeah, absolutely. Get to see a little bit of
16:26
it. You know, as you're Yeah, that'd be cool.
16:29
Um, let's talk about the innovation lab a little
16:31
bit. So you had, there was two sessions that
16:34
really stood out to you during the innovation
16:36
lab. that were both part of it. One of them was
16:39
called Artful Writing with Artificial Intelligence.
16:44
And one of them was called AI Powered Literacy,
16:48
Creating Personalized Books. Can you talk maybe
16:51
just a little bit about both of those? Yeah,
16:54
so the first one on there comes from a book written
16:59
by Brett Vogelsinger, and we're going to bring
17:02
Brett onto the show in the near future. We're
17:06
still trying to confirm a date with him so we
17:09
can talk about his book as well as kind of the
17:14
cool concepts and techniques and really meaningful
17:18
instructive purposes of using AI in English.
17:22
language arts setting with your writing. And
17:26
it's just this concept that he has where you
17:30
start with the human and then the human starts
17:34
to do their writing from whatever the assigned
17:38
topic is or selected topic. And they take their
17:43
first draft and maybe even if... if it's just
17:45
200 words, right? But you're starting to lay
17:48
down your own thoughts and ideas without touching
17:51
AI at all. And so then... you take that after
17:56
you have written it, then you give that same
17:58
prompt to AI and have AI limit it to 200 words.
18:03
Now that student has their work, they have AI's
18:07
work, and they can kind of start to, you know,
18:10
use their critical thinking skills to start to
18:12
analyze both drafts and maybe make some comparisons
18:15
between the two, evaluate what they like from
18:18
what they wrote versus what AI did and vice versa,
18:22
right? Then not not that you're kind of like
18:25
synthesizing them together right but then have
18:27
the student go back to their draft and either
18:30
rework their draft or start over where they again
18:33
aren't using AI other than what they remember
18:36
about what they read about what AI wrote and
18:39
to start to make kind of these other connections
18:42
again and so it just seems like a great process
18:45
here which he definitely talked about in that
18:49
innovations lab and I should say this too if
18:51
you're not familiar with that innovation lab
18:54
concept. If you've been at a conference where
18:57
they have like poster sessions and the presenter
19:00
stands at a table with their poster and then
19:04
it's really you know you have several of them
19:06
in that same area and which then allows the attendees
19:09
to walk around and learn from the different presenters
19:13
in a much more intimate setting with you know
19:16
maybe five or ten people at a time. And so that's
19:20
what Bretz was, was in part of that innovations
19:24
lab area. So really excited to be able to chat
19:27
with him and have him describe more of that process
19:31
in detail and how he's used it with his students
19:34
successfully, right? Then the other one, and
19:37
I was really excited about this as well, was
19:40
from a teacher named Elizabeth Voce. or voci,
19:46
I'm not sure if I'm saying which way is the correct
19:48
way to pronounce that. But she had this really
19:52
cool, and it was a reading literacy and AI literacy
19:58
intertwined lesson that she was using with third
20:02
graders. And so it really became this activity
20:07
where the children, in her class and her co -teachers
20:12
class. We're really working together to help
20:18
teach students, you know, some new vocabulary,
20:22
new science of reading instruction, but pairing
20:26
that with learning about AI at the same time.
20:31
So definitely they're focusing on how AI works
20:34
with the kids, you know, talking about data sets,
20:38
introducing things about bias. But really it
20:41
was this idea where, yes, it also involved a
20:44
piece of writing and that She has students kind
20:48
of create their own story map ideas for a book
20:53
that they would like to write. And then they
20:56
go through this process of students do some of
21:00
the work. AI comes in and does some of the work.
21:02
Students do more. AI does more. And at the same
21:06
time, they're bringing in AI literacy lessons
21:09
about, you know, hallucination and bias into
21:13
the particular thing. Then they have a piece
21:16
where they design some artwork to go along with
21:19
the stories that they're writing. And eventually
21:21
what they come up with is this book that they
21:25
actually went and had printed. I think they went
21:27
to like Staples or somewhere and, you know, the
21:30
money to have them produce these books. But then
21:32
the kid walks away with a book that they kind
21:35
of co -wrote, right, with AI. And it's also leveled
21:42
to their, wherever their reading level is, their
21:44
Lexile level. So it was really cool. And I'm
21:49
going to reach out to her too and see if we can
21:51
maybe bring her on to explain it much better
21:52
than I can do. But I think what I really appreciated
21:56
with it was This is a great way to blend that
22:01
AI literacy instruction and that you and I have
22:04
been talking about here, I think for the last
22:07
month or more and working on our own presentations
22:09
about it as well. And so it was a great way to
22:13
see that brought into a classroom activity, even
22:17
at those elementary levels. Yeah, and that's
22:20
really cool because it's a great example, like
22:23
you said, of combining some of these concepts
22:26
like you and I don't spend a ton of time in like
22:29
actual literacy looking at like reading and things
22:31
like that but as you mentioned you know we're
22:33
looking a lot lately at AI literacy and we you
22:37
know we have some sessions coming up and we just
22:39
did a session on AI literacy so making some of
22:41
those connections would be huge um because I
22:44
think that's what you know it actually that's
22:47
an example of what it looks like in practice
22:49
um so really cool So the next part, looking at
22:56
the session that you attended Beyond the Buzz,
22:59
AI tools that work, there was a couple tools
23:02
that stood out to you. I know like one of them
23:04
you even sent to me right away. You're like,
23:06
hey, check this out because this is really cool.
23:09
What ended up happening was you sent me that.
23:12
I related even further within our organization
23:14
and then I asked our data privacy specialist
23:16
to vet it as well because as I watched the video
23:19
and looked at it, I was like, OK, I could see
23:21
teachers are going to ask about this, right?
23:24
Yeah, it was that we work with. So can you talk
23:26
about those two tools that you mentioned? Yeah,
23:29
so the first one, the one that you're talking
23:31
about is AI trust you like, you know, like if
23:34
you would say to someone, hey, I trust you. This
23:36
is AI trust you and and what it is, it's a Google
23:40
Docs add on. And what it does is it goes through
23:45
and once you say you're a teacher and you're
23:48
creating directions for an assignment that students
23:51
are going to do and you want to make sure that
23:53
they understand what your expectations for AI
23:56
usage for that particular assignment are going
23:58
to be. And so you start with your directions
24:02
for the assignment and then you open up the add
24:04
on. the AI trust you add on, and it will ask
24:09
you some questions. First, it'll say, are you
24:11
a teacher or student? So you say, okay, I'm a
24:13
teacher. Then it's gonna say, are students allowed
24:16
to use AI on this assignment? And if you said
24:18
no, it's going to create verbiage for you, letting
24:22
students know that they are not permitted to
24:25
use AI on that assignment. So it is a very clear
24:29
statement. Students can't miss it. It's part
24:30
of the directions. It's right on the document
24:33
that is your assignment. If you say yes, that
24:37
students are allowed to use it, then it's going
24:39
to say, okay, which AI tools are they allowed
24:42
to use? Like are they allowed to use Grammarly?
24:45
Are they allowed to use Magic School or Gemini
24:48
or ChatGPT? And you can check the boxes on the
24:52
AI tool that you want them to use. And it's really
24:55
customizable. Like your Google admin person can
24:58
go in and they can choose the different tools
25:00
that are available for you to use with that checkbox.
25:04
Then, not only does it ask you what tools that
25:07
you're going to allow students to use and to
25:10
select the ones, the next thing that you get
25:12
to do is say how students are allowed to use
25:14
it. Like, can they use it to brainstorm? Can
25:17
they use it to give feedback on a written draft
25:22
of something they're working on? Or can they
25:24
use it to help find sources? Whatever those different
25:29
things are that you want them to use them for,
25:32
you can click again the check mark in the boxes
25:36
and it will then take all of that stuff and it's
25:39
going to create the the verbiage that you would
25:42
want the disclaimer statement about AI usage
25:45
and so that you're very transparent with students.
25:47
You're very upfront about what they are and you
25:50
know we've talked. I know David and I sometimes
25:52
in a couple of different sessions that we've
25:56
had or in conversations with guests that we've
25:59
had on the podcast about kind of like that stoplight
26:01
concept where red. is no usage, green is full
26:05
go and yellow is kind of that. Yes, you can use
26:08
it in some cases. So this kind of it kind of
26:11
takes those ideas of that stoplight, but puts
26:14
it into that disclaimer statement that goes on
26:16
to that document. Then students also have the
26:20
ability to use AI trust you and what they can
26:23
do is to use it as a way to describe for their
26:27
teachers how they used AI in that particular
26:30
assignment and they can determine with the little
26:33
slider kind of like what percentage work did
26:35
you do versus a. And so I think that open, honest
26:40
exchange of the use of AI between both teacher
26:43
and student could be really, really cool. And
26:47
so that's the one I know that you went, I had
26:49
to share that one with you, like literally as
26:50
I'm walking away from that session and I'm trying
26:53
to text it to you and try not to run into people
26:55
or walls while I'm doing it, but. Yeah, that
26:58
one gets to like, I like the fact that because
27:01
some of our conversations have been going beyond
27:04
the. the traffic, the stoplight model into like
27:08
individual assignments and helping teachers kind
27:12
of, you know, put on their individual assignments,
27:15
like, what is the acceptable use in this? And
27:18
this is something that they can actually select
27:21
the various tools that are OK to be used within
27:24
this, you know, you're on the Google Doc. It's
27:27
basically telling students like these are acceptable.
27:30
This is what, you know, kind of setting some
27:32
of those expectations with the tool. Right and
27:35
it's totally customizable and the teacher doesn't
27:38
really have to give a whole lot of extra thought
27:40
to it because That thinking for them has kind
27:42
of already been there. So it's just literally
27:44
selecting those different boxes Yeah, and then
27:48
the other one and I again I've I've I've known
27:50
it existed and I've seen it used but I just have
27:54
not had a time to dive into it so, you know,
27:56
like Richard Claude had talked about one of those
27:58
questions for you is, I got to find ways to use
28:01
Canva code, which is another one that was in
28:05
that beyond the buzz session, and just have the
28:08
opportunity to be able to dive into that. But
28:11
it's like other things, you just have to have
28:13
the time. Yeah, and there's a lot of stuff that
28:20
Canva has actually Release recently a lot of
28:23
updates, right? Yeah, there's a quite a bit to
28:27
catch up on there. So yes a lot of great stuff
28:31
Okay, so let's talk about Eric session In yeah,
28:35
did AI write this essay and I know there is a
28:37
bit of connection I think with this one with
28:40
AI trust you as well because Eric talked about
28:42
that right but what was his session like and
28:46
What are schools, you know, how are they gonna
28:48
manage student use of AI writing if you can answer
28:51
that from his session or maybe just what were
28:53
key takeaways from there? Yeah, so going to a
28:56
session with Eric Kurtz is almost... it's almost
29:00
literally like having him as a guest on the podcast,
29:03
because he's the exact same person. And it doesn't
29:07
matter if it's a virtual audience, if it's an
29:09
in person audience, or if there's two people
29:12
in the room, or there's 250 people in the room,
29:15
because he's exactly the same. So that was kind
29:18
of like the first thing that I really, really
29:20
noticed. And it was very much he had his presentation
29:25
slides and Eric shares everything. And he puts
29:29
it all on a hyperdoc. But it's got his slides
29:32
on there. It's got his resources on there. It's
29:34
got links to other related things. And you know,
29:38
it's just very much the session that way then
29:40
can be driven by the attendees in the room and
29:43
what they really want to hear more about. And
29:46
so the interestingly, so they what people really
29:50
wanted to hear a lot about at this particular
29:52
session to start with, was kind of that, you
29:56
know, learning still needs to be a struggle.
29:58
There shouldn't be an easy button that, you know,
30:01
we have to find a way to limit the students'
30:05
cognitive offloading that could take place if
30:07
they have that ability to push the easy AI button
30:10
all the time. That, you know, effective learning
30:12
is going to be something that causes you discomfort.
30:15
That's going to be something that you have to
30:16
struggle, you know, to try to get better at all
30:18
the time, which AI can help you do, right? But
30:23
you've got to find the ways to use it appropriately.
30:26
in order to make that happen. So one of the things
30:28
that it was really kind of cool because I remembered
30:32
back to our interview with Eric and even the
30:35
title of our episode with him was Pedal Powered
30:38
Pedagogy, right? He used the example of an electric
30:44
bike versus a motorcycle, which he talked about
30:48
on our show as well, where if you want to get
30:51
on the motorcycle just to go from point A to
30:53
point B as fast as you can, you can. And that's
30:56
the easy AI button. And sometimes there's good
30:59
reason to do that. But other times, you want
31:03
to be part of that productive struggle process.
31:06
And so on an electric bike, you have the ability
31:10
to pass that bike yourself but if you get to
31:13
the point where you need a little bit of assistance
31:15
because you're running out of steam you're running
31:17
out of ideas or energy you know then you can
31:21
engage that electric part and it can help carry
31:24
you along for a certain amount of time you know
31:27
but eventually you're gonna you know run out
31:28
of battery or whatever but you know it's that
31:31
same point you can turn that back off again when
31:33
you're ready to you know, be that active learner
31:36
once again. And so that was really kind of cool
31:38
how we talked about that as part of that process.
31:42
And he also talked about a study from MIT that
31:48
came out recently. And I see David's nodding
31:51
his head that I think he knows what I'm talking
31:53
about, about how, yeah, AI, analyzing people
31:57
that have been using AI to do an assignment versus
32:00
people that have not. use that to do an assignment,
32:03
that there is much more active brain. What are
32:08
they? They do those brain scans, brain activity,
32:11
right? That is involved in tasks that are done
32:14
by human only, versus tasks that, you know, the
32:17
teacher engages AI to do it fully, and then just
32:20
like skims through it, and maybe reads it. There's
32:22
like, there's like no learning, basically, that
32:24
takes like, lack of neurons firing, right? There
32:27
you go. Yeah, obviously, I am not a brain scientist,
32:31
and no one has ever accused me of anything like
32:33
that. But then, you know, it then talked about,
32:37
too, like it at first, you know, you look at
32:40
the study, and it's very much like disheartening
32:43
that AI is really going to cause us to become
32:46
dumber. But there's also this idea and here again,
32:52
I'm reminded back to the artful writing with
32:56
AI, that Brett Vogelsinger session that I went
32:59
to in that innovations lab, that it's kind of
33:03
the same process. If they took those same groups
33:06
from that study that in the group that did the
33:08
human part first, then they were allowed to use
33:13
AI. Then they went back to human again, and it
33:18
really showed that it accelerated the amount
33:22
of neurons firing and stuff in that process than
33:26
it did with just the human alone group at the
33:29
very beginning. So there is definitely advantages
33:32
to, you know, bringing AI as that partner in
33:37
at the right moments and in the right manners.
33:40
And it's really it ended with a much more AI
33:44
-optimistic kind of a feel to it. Sure, yeah.
33:49
And I think, too, it's really fascinating because
33:52
we have a lot of these studies coming out because
33:58
everything's so new and there's research being
34:01
done. And so there's the studies, which I think
34:05
are really important to read, to gain some insights
34:09
from. But then what's always fascinating is also
34:11
the reactions to the studies that are coming
34:13
out. So there's, there always seems to be kind
34:16
of some split camps around this stuff in regard
34:20
to AI and more specifically, like the help versus
34:23
harm aspect. What that's all doing. So I do think
34:28
I think at the very least, if you're someone
34:31
who, you know, if that if that affects like if
34:34
you're an educator or something, I really think
34:35
it's worth taking the time to read some of these
34:37
things and looking at some of the conversation
34:39
around them because It will help at least put
34:42
some things in perspective or keep you informed
34:45
as to what's going on And don't just get caught
34:48
in the trap of seeing the headline that whatever
34:51
reporter made out of it like yes AI is causing
34:54
us to become stupider, you know Like if you just
34:57
read that but don't actually dive in to find
34:59
out what are the ways that it's actually impactful
35:02
and helpful Then you're really missing out on
35:05
it. Yeah, there's a lot of you get to the study
35:08
itself, you know then you can definitely get
35:10
your own takeaways from it. Yep. And there's
35:13
a lot of nuance. I mean, nothing is really cut
35:15
and dry. So yeah. Let's move on to the the future
35:20
ready playground. There was quite a few educators
35:22
and and people at the conference that were part
35:25
of that area. But I did want to specifically
35:29
mention Becky Keene because you did get a chance
35:31
to meet Becky. Becky will be on the podcast in
35:35
August. So that's another really great. one to
35:37
look forward to. We'll be talking about her book,
35:40
AI Optimism. But funny enough, like you said,
35:43
that wasn't really brought up a ton. And when
35:47
you were listening to Becky's presentation, I
35:51
guess you could call it in the playground area.
35:53
But do you want to talk a little bit about future
35:56
-ready skills, tools that were showcased, and
35:59
maybe something that grabbed your attention during
36:00
that? Yeah, so I'm also after now attending,
36:05
you know that that little Session that Becky
36:09
had inside that playground area I'm really excited
36:12
to bring her on and I know both you and I have
36:15
been reading her book already And they've gotten
36:18
a lot of cool takeaways, especially I think how
36:20
she's aligning a lot of AI use With the Sam our
36:25
model. Yeah, which I think is kind of like a
36:29
great a great way to showcase some of those different
36:34
ways of using AI and ramping up your usage of
36:38
it. But that really wasn't the start to the focus
36:43
of her project that she was sharing how she had
36:47
worked with another teacher. And again, in a
36:51
way similar to the... the students that were
36:55
making the book in the third grade classroom.
36:57
She had a project here where it involved students
37:01
learning. It was done during the month of March,
37:04
so it had a focus on Women's History Month. And
37:08
so her students, which I think were like fifth
37:10
or sixth graders, were learning about important
37:14
women in US history. It happened to be a U .S.-based
37:19
classroom with U .S. history content, the teacher
37:23
that she was working with, but I think it could
37:25
definitely be expanded to include many others.
37:28
And so she had, she actually went to School AI
37:33
to their site and found, you know, they have
37:37
the chat with characters. part or spaces that
37:41
have already been pre created. And so she went
37:44
and chose like Harriet Tubman, Amelia Earhart.
37:50
I think Frida Kahlo, and there was one other
37:53
one. I'm not remembering who it was right now.
37:56
And then students were able to choose one of
37:59
those characters. And then she opened up the
38:02
space for students to use within School AI to
38:05
have like a chat with that character to learn
38:08
more about that person's life, about, you know,
38:11
their accomplishments, maybe their struggles
38:14
and things that they've had to overcome. And
38:17
so that's how the students learned. kind of their
38:20
biographies. Then she tied this in with this
38:25
idea of creating a logo that represents, you
38:30
know, many of the different types of things,
38:33
but like even a company would have, you know,
38:35
and why they choose to include certain items
38:37
in that logo or colors or, you know, styles and
38:42
that sort of thing. So the students then learned
38:45
about designing logos. And so she created her
38:49
own space that went through kind of a creative
38:52
design process for creating a logo for a company.
38:56
Then so they take them, they know this content
38:59
about these important women in history, and they
39:02
got some ideas about what it takes to make an
39:05
effective logo design. And then they're tasked
39:07
with trying to make a logo for that particular
39:10
famous person from history. And what they often
39:13
find when they start designing things, you know,
39:16
like Amelia Earhart, for example, she had her
39:19
students that chose her and they start to write
39:22
the prompts for creating an image. think about,
39:29
well, what sort of content do you need to include
39:31
in your prompt? So it's really bringing like
39:32
some AI literacy stuff in here too, to be able
39:35
to get the result that you want. And every kid
39:39
that had chosen Amelia Earhart talked about a
39:42
pilot, right? And they never said female pilot.
39:45
And every time that they typed in just pilot,
39:47
they got a male as the center of that particular
39:51
image. So they had to stop and say, okay, how
39:53
can we change this to make sure that we're getting
39:55
it to reflect what we want it to reflect? and
39:58
how it becomes then even that iterative process.
40:02
So that's really what she spent most of her time
40:04
talking through was that particular assignment
40:07
that their students had been working on. So it
40:10
was really kind of cool to see how, you know,
40:13
that AI literacy is being embedded into other
40:16
areas as well. Awesome. Yeah. And I think it's
40:22
interesting too, like you obviously you had an
40:26
opportunity to meet people that you have not
40:28
met before, but you know, like Becky that's going
40:30
to be on the podcast and everything. But one
40:33
of the great things about ISTE2 is that you get
40:37
a chance to kind of reconnect with people you
40:39
have already met. Right. So one of the people
40:42
is Manuel. We had and if you guys want to see
40:47
like some really great art and sketchnoting and
40:51
all that type of stuff. You can for sure check
40:53
out the episode that we did with Manuel, but
40:55
definitely go to manualdraws .com where he has
40:59
a lot of his work. And we met Manuel in Denver
41:02
and had opportunity to see one of his sessions.
41:07
And art is his whole jam, right? Like, I mean,
41:10
that's a lot of stuff with tools. I think he
41:14
does some stuff with Samsung, I believe it is.
41:16
Yep, Samsung. Yep. And then he also has begun
41:20
illustrating children's books. Kind of on his
41:24
own too. And he had some samples of some of the
41:27
illustrations that he did. I didn't take any
41:29
pictures of it, but he was showing it off to
41:32
people in that session that we were at and he's
41:34
amazing. Yeah, yeah. And super nice guy, you
41:38
know, very, very friendly and fun to talk to.
41:42
But you attended a session of his, as you just
41:45
mentioned, that one was called From Doodles to
41:47
Discovery. And one of the things I always appreciated
41:51
about our conversation with Manuel was his whole
41:54
idea behind anyone can draw, right? Like everybody
41:57
can draw. You don't have to feel like you can't.
42:00
And he makes it very He makes drawing and art
42:03
very approachable and has a great attitude about
42:06
like anybody can do it. So can you talk a little
42:08
bit about that session and, you know, the power
42:12
of visual thinking and how he uses tech to support
42:15
all those? Yeah, and he'd probably be the first
42:19
one to say to like, yeah, use tech to help support
42:22
this. But if you just want to draw on paper,
42:23
draw on paper, you know, like. that's totally
42:26
cool to whatever whatever you know don't don't
42:29
let the technology be the limiter that stops
42:31
you from you know wanting to do it so find your
42:34
own your own path with that but he just has this
42:38
way about him too that he is yeah like like you
42:42
had said just as he lowers that threshold, that
42:46
barrier. Like we had definitely people that were
42:48
in that session that were art teachers, right?
42:52
And they probably saw this as like, oh, I'm gonna
42:54
learn some great art things that will really
42:56
ramp up my game. And I'm sure they did because
42:59
he's so good at kind of helping meet everyone
43:01
that's in the audience there at whatever level
43:03
they're at. But there's definitely more like
43:07
the woman that was sitting at the table with
43:09
me who was from St. Louis. And she, I could tell
43:14
like right away was like, I'm not gonna be able
43:16
to draw anything. And she only came with it because
43:19
her friend was with her. And that's the session
43:22
that that person wanted to go to. So it was just
43:24
like really cool then to see her by the end of
43:27
that hour and a half, like totally, this is so
43:30
cool. It's so easy, you know, like I can't believe
43:32
I can do this. And you know, because Manuel just
43:35
makes it simple enough, but yet. shows you how
43:39
you can expand upon where you begin with. But
43:41
even if you don't get to that point, it's still
43:44
just really neat to see it all come together.
43:47
And the one that sticks out with me like, yeah,
43:50
anybody can do this. If you just have a piece
43:53
of paper in front of you. and with a pencil or
43:55
pen. And you just start to make some random shaped
43:58
doodle drawing, you know, for about three seconds,
44:01
okay, just whatever shapes and around that you
44:03
want to do. You can turn that into a bird and
44:05
it will look like a bird. And all you have to
44:08
do then is pick a spot on that doodle that you
44:10
made, add a beak, add an eye or two, give it
44:14
feet with the little three -toed kind of things
44:17
at the bottom. And if you want two wings, and
44:21
it will look like it's a bird. And he had us
44:24
do that like five or six times and we're like,
44:27
oh man, that turned out like I can recognize
44:29
this as a bird. But even if it didn't, he just
44:32
like, well then just write the word bird next
44:33
to it and people know what you're talking about.
44:36
So that was one of the things that I remember.
44:38
But he has some just simple ways of drawing animals
44:41
and people in buildings and mountains and all
44:45
of these other different things that. can be
44:49
a person's entry into an area like sketchnoting.
44:53
So that's where it started to get, you know,
44:55
progress a little bit further within the session.
44:58
And how sketchnoting can be really used to help
45:01
those students, especially remember key concepts,
45:06
remember key vocabulary words because the way
45:09
that their brains work are allowing them to make
45:12
connections from the visual. you know, to the
45:16
content. And if they can see it, even if it's
45:19
in a simplistic representation, they're much
45:22
more likely to remember it. Yeah, yeah, and that's
45:27
awesome. And if you if you haven't seen our episode
45:30
with Manuel, I would definitely recommend because
45:32
he basically kind of takes us through that that
45:35
tutorial style of like, this gives like, I think
45:39
he did six shapes, I believe, in our video and
45:42
kind of showed like, this is how you can start.
45:43
doing this it's very yeah yeah you take like
45:46
a a rectangle a triangle a circle a line um i
45:53
think dots yeah and there might have been one
45:56
more yeah and he just like uses them as the building
45:59
blocks to eventually get to an illustration essentially
46:02
right he's like if you can draw these six things
46:04
you can draw anything yeah it's it's really cool
46:07
Yeah, super encouraging. So that's great. It's
46:10
cool to see that you got to catch up with him.
46:12
And then let's let's kind of deviate a little
46:15
bit because I know after all the day, the day
46:17
of spending, you know, walking and walking and
46:20
walking and then attending sessions. So a lot
46:23
of walking, a lot of sitting, a lot of listening,
46:25
a lot of, you know, talking here and there. Eventually,
46:29
when the day kind of comes to an end each day,
46:32
there is what's known as the ISTE nightlife,
46:35
right? So you get your after hours fun, some
46:39
time events that you and I have got to enjoy
46:42
together and go to some festivities and things.
46:45
So can you talk a little bit about like what
46:47
was the fun that you guys got to enjoy after
46:50
the long day of walking around and some of the
46:52
things that you got to experience? Yeah, so,
46:56
you know, one of the things that we haven't touched
46:58
on at the ISTE conference is the most amazing
47:03
gigantic exhibit hall with all of the different
47:07
vendors and it is just so huge you guys if you
47:11
haven't ever been to a conference it's hard to
47:14
describe how big that area is with how many different
47:19
vendors that occupy that space and that I bring
47:23
that up because it's a huge shout out to any
47:27
of the vendors that participate in in the entire
47:31
ISTE conference. Because man, they are constantly
47:35
on that whole time with everybody walking through
47:38
that particular area to check out their products,
47:41
to see latest updates. And I mean, yeah, there's
47:44
like ginormous booths for like Google and Microsoft
47:48
and many other companies as well. But then there's
47:51
smaller ones that are there too. And one of those
47:55
that stands out in my mind is Snorkel. Snorkel
47:59
is formative assessment tool that brings AI in
48:05
to help students kind of see where they can make
48:09
improvements even before they turn their assignments
48:11
into teachers and stuff but still prevents That
48:15
cognitive offloading of students because it's
48:18
not gonna give them the answer It's gonna kind
48:20
of push them in that direction, you know that
48:22
using that electric bike as needed So I just
48:25
wanted to give a shout out to all the vendors
48:26
here first, right? But it's really the vendors
48:29
then that put on the the nightlife events Yeah,
48:33
so that's where I was kind of going with that
48:35
but I had to like give them the credit first
48:38
and so Every night there are multiple different
48:43
after hours fun events that the vendors put on
48:47
at local establishments and wherever we're at.
48:52
And so you can find any of these in any night
48:55
and you just sign up for them and then you go
48:58
and they usually have like free appetizers for
49:00
you. The first night we went to one that was
49:05
kind of like it was at the Hard Rock in San Antonio
49:08
and it was a bunch of different smaller Benders
49:13
that maybe couldn't afford to have an exhibit
49:16
space at the actual conference itself But they
49:19
put this on and they had different booths and
49:21
tables for you to come experience some of their
49:24
Different things they have to offer to schools
49:26
that aren't the big companies, right? And so
49:30
that was really cool. They had some great food
49:32
the that was spread out on a buffet for us and
49:36
and I like to tell people like I don't think
49:38
I've paid for a dinner at ISTE in five years
49:42
that I've gone. You eat enough food just walking
49:45
around to these different events that it's really
49:48
cool. Then the second night on Monday night was
49:53
a great event. Actually, I went to a couple of
49:56
different ones that were put on. the probably
50:00
the most fun one was the one from vivacity. And
50:04
it was a dueling pianos that were up on the stage.
50:08
They're taking requests from people for songs
50:10
to play and the in getting audience participation
50:14
and everything like that. And again, they have
50:17
got the food, you know, and for those that that
50:20
wish, they do have a couple of drink tickets
50:22
that you get to. You know, of course, if when
50:25
in Rome, you're going to do what the Romans do.
50:27
And when you're in San Antonio, you'll drink
50:29
margaritas. And so that was that was a lot of
50:33
fun. And then for me, though, I think the highlight
50:37
of all of the those after events each year is
50:41
Ed Tech karaoke, which happens on Tuesday night
50:44
of the conference. Which is great. It's put on
50:48
by several different companies class link is
50:51
one for example That that is involved with that
50:55
one and I don't want I could go mention them
50:58
all but I don't want to forget anybody but I
50:59
just I don't know that's kind of in Simbaloo
51:01
is kind of like the other big one with that but
51:05
they put on this event and the people, you actually
51:09
have to audition ahead of time to be on the stage
51:13
at this karaoke concert that takes place. And
51:16
it's not just someone with a little machine hit
51:18
and play on a song and words that come up on
51:21
a screen. You have a live actual band that is
51:26
playing along that you're singing with. And these
51:29
people that become that are these contestants
51:33
in this in this competition here are all educators
51:37
and they are just the most amazing singers and
51:40
I think of the five years that I've gone this
51:43
has had the best talent by far like the top three
51:47
I don't I think I would have picked one of those
51:50
people like I thought there were two or other
51:52
three other people that deserve to also be on
51:55
that stage but what oh man it was just it was
51:58
so good yeah and it's legit too I mean they have
52:01
like a sound tech in the back usually and yeah
52:04
It's pretty legit and they set it up nicely for
52:07
those that sing and the rest of us get to enjoy
52:10
it. It's pretty cool. and because you know they're
52:13
their fellow educators in the trenches along
52:15
with you like they just get the crowd so involved
52:19
and you know it's just amazing I would love to
52:22
I would love to see those people that were performing
52:24
in their actual classroom spaces yes I can just
52:28
imagine they're probably the same person they
52:30
just got a group of kids in front of them instead
52:32
of you know a couple thousand people in a in
52:34
an auditorium yeah yeah very cool um well Yeah,
52:39
we'll kind of wrap up here. And it sounds like
52:42
everything was super fun. Everybody stayed safe,
52:46
I'm guessing. So we can come back to Minnesota
52:50
here and resume your normal activities. But definitely
52:55
bummed that I didn't get to join you this year.
52:56
But next year, for sure, we'll get into it and
53:00
have fun in Orlando, right? Yeah. We encourage
53:03
everybody if you are able to to find a way to
53:06
get to Orlando and it'll be a good time I think
53:09
it'll be another hot one But yeah, you know,
53:12
just remember the conference itself is in an
53:15
air -conditioned facility. So Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
53:19
it's a it's a lot of fun. It sounds like it was
53:21
a great time. So Thanks, everybody, for watching.
53:26
Hopefully, you can take a look at ISTE, look
53:28
at what they have set up for next year and everything.
53:32
And really, like Jeremy said, consider attending.
53:36
And I think there's just so much value there
53:38
that you get out of going and meet a lot of great
53:40
people, have a lot of great food, can have a
53:43
margarita if you want, all sorts of fun to be
53:47
had. And that's saying nothing even about the
53:49
keynotes and professional development and all
53:51
that. goes into it. So and they do a great job.
53:55
But yeah, make sure you stay tuned. Our we have
53:58
a lot of great guests coming up in future episodes.
54:01
We will be having like we mentioned, Becky Keenan
54:04
on the podcast, Thomas Hummel, who is a co owner
54:09
of edu aid, which Jeremy has connected with prior.
54:12
And then we will have have Amanda Baker staff
54:15
from AI for Education on as well in the coming
54:19
So a lot of great stuff to look forward to. Make
54:23
sure you keep an eye on that and subscribe. And
54:26
thanks for watching the episode and come to ISTE.
54:30
Thanks for listening to Integrate This. Want
54:33
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54:35
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54:39
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54:42
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54:52
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54:56
this.