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Supreme Court, Tariffs & Executive Authority · Bourbon & Rum

0:00
We have the presidential equivalent of Elvis sitting in
0:03
the jungle room watching 3 TV's. I hope Robert Goulet doesn't
0:08
come on, because you know what happens.
0:10
Then if you had that kind of power and you were a Russian,
0:13
you, you wouldn't be a Russian anymore.
0:17
Welcome to Bourbon and Rum, the podcast dedicated to civil
0:21
conversation. I'm Kent.
0:23
I like rum and I'm from the left side of the aisle.
0:25
And I'm Kyle. I like bourbon.
0:27
I tend to be a little more conservative.
0:29
We're brothers talking politics. We're bourbon and rug.
0:43
What are you drinking? I'm back on my old Forester
0:47
single barrel high proof, high proof whiskey.
0:52
You know, these single barrels, all the liquor stores do them as
0:57
has their own little barrel picks.
0:58
And so I've gotten a couple of those.
1:01
And I was just at another liquor store.
1:03
Yeah. I sound like I just hang out at
1:05
liquor stores on this podcast, but it is true.
1:08
I love going to liquor stores and seeing what they have.
1:10
But I was at another liquor store yesterday and he's got
1:14
cases of Old Forester Single Barrel as well as Old Forester
1:18
Single Barrel Rye. So I may have to go back and get
1:21
me some. But it's really good.
1:23
I like. I like a good higher corn
1:27
content bourbon, the you know, the sweet kind of caramel taste,
1:31
so it's a good one for sure and high, high proof, which is nice.
1:34
What are you drinking on? I just killed a bottle of
1:39
Pusser's British Navy gunpowder proof.
1:43
So that's at 110 proof. It's British style.
1:49
It's very, it's like a molasses cookie.
1:53
Beautiful. We should do an episode sometime
1:56
where we like a challenge where we both have to bring a plastic
1:59
bottle of alcohol for the the drink.
2:02
You know that. I'm betting that I would come
2:04
out better on that deal than you would because honestly, you
2:09
know, you can get a Bacardi in a in a traveller, you know, and
2:14
you're fine. I don't know about what kind of
2:16
bourbon comes that way. Yeah, that's true.
2:20
Well, here we are, February 21st, and we are what, one day?
2:26
Was it just yesterday that that hit or was it Thursday, the
2:31
Supreme Court decision on the tariffs?
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I thought we'd kind of break that down.
2:35
Was it yesterday? I think.
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Yeah, I think so. Yesterday morning.
2:38
Yeah, so I guess the the take away from the Supreme Court was
2:47
what they ruled is unusable as his that IEPA rule, the
2:56
emergency Powers Act in A to enact tariffs.
3:01
And so now he's pivoted to a different rule that has 150 day
3:08
time frame or something like that, but.
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Well, I'm, I'm celebrating for two reasons.
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You know, I, I think the tariffs are stupid and certainly the
3:19
application of the tariff, the capricious application of the
3:25
tariff. Did you hear?
3:27
We'll get to the breakdown in a moment, but here's here's what
3:31
did you hear him talking about the tariff on Swiss watches?
3:37
I did not. He tells this story that the
3:40
president, Prime Minister, I don't know what it is of of
3:43
Switzerland as a female. And he said, she called me and
3:47
she said we can't do this. And she she made a case and she
3:51
said I couldn't do it. And when she hung up the phone,
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I increased the tariff 'cause I didn't like the way she talked
3:58
to me. Like, I mean, look, even if you
4:05
think tariffs are a good idea, I don't think bumping the tariff
4:09
up 5% because he didn't like the way she talked to him on the
4:12
phone. Like that's no way to run a
4:14
freaking country. So I'm really, I, I, I'm opposed
4:18
to the tariffs, but, you know, if Congress can pass these
4:23
tariffs like the rules are supposed to, well, then, you
4:28
know, shame on me. We didn't, we didn't win the
4:30
election. But you, you've got a guy who
4:33
just randomly just does stuff. So I think it's really healthy
4:38
that Supreme Court reigned him in.
4:41
I, I would like to break down with you a little bit the
4:44
politics or the politicization of the Supreme Court.
4:50
How much of their decision was based on, I mean, the fact that
4:56
the Wall Street Journal came out that absolutely validated that
5:01
Americans are paying the tariffs.
5:04
We're paying for it in inflation, we're paying for it
5:06
in all the goods. I don't know.
5:08
What do you think? Well, let's see, let's unpack
5:12
there. I guess first, the first thing
5:17
is, I think I think it was a great day also.
5:22
But I think it was a great day because it demonstrates that the
5:26
hysteria on the left that Trump has fundamentally broken the
5:31
government and he's a king and he's doing everything by decree
5:36
and he's, you know, destroyed the United States is like, well,
5:42
you know, you did something folks didn't like.
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So they brought a court case and the Supreme Court changed what
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he can do. So I don't think, I don't think
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that hysteria is valid. I think he does a lot of things
5:58
people object to. But there's still recourse in
6:02
America to solve these issues. And I don't, you know, to your
6:06
point, you know that there's going to be some guy on the left
6:09
or gal on the left that gets an office and they're going to do a
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bunch of stuff that picks people off a different way.
6:14
But there are recourses and there are institutions to solve
6:18
those problems. So I thought that was a good
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case in point of that. And it's kind of funny to me
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because a lot of the people that are screaming up and down that,
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you know, he's trying to be a king and he's doing all this
6:29
stuff by ruling are also the same people celebrating.
6:33
We'll see. This is what happens.
6:35
Yeah, exactly. This is what happens with a
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court. Well, I agree about it being
6:41
healthy that the court reigning in his powers, but it's not
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because he didn't want to do it. And he's literally tried to, to
6:52
circumvent the court at every turn in these things.
6:56
He's he's defied court orders up and down.
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So I mean, good. Like it's it's a good thing that
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the Supreme Court stood in this case.
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So like it's he can't disagree with the court, that's a bad
7:12
thing. No, I'm not saying he can't
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disagree with it. I I'm saying that I mean, his
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quote about the court that he has hand picked Kyle was those
7:25
effing judges. That's a class move out of the
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president of the United States. It's a class move out of a guy
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who got to pick the most conservative court that we've
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had in 150 years. Well, but I, I think that's the
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fact that he's unhappy with the decision.
7:44
I mean, proves your point. I mean, yes, the president has a
7:49
whole lot of latitude and they can do a whole lot of things
7:51
that they always do, but there are recourses, and I think this
7:56
is a great example of that. Well, I don't think you can
8:00
blame me for my anxiety. I mean, you, you say this like
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it's like it's a no, like it's a no brainer, Kyle.
8:07
But we had January 6th. That I think was a legitimate
8:11
problem. OK and again January 6th the the
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guy with the Viking hat we're we were worried the government was
8:19
going to dissolve because of some dipshit and a Viking hat
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that they. No, I don't think the risk was
8:25
the government. Capital and it was over with.
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I well, I don't think the risk was the government dissolving.
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The risk was was thwarting A legitimate election.
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Which didn't happen and but that was the attempt on.
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Thank God for Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett.
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Yeah, I'm happy about the Supreme Court's decision.
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I wish that there's some other stuff that they would have
8:52
stepped in on before. But what do you make of his
8:57
temper tantrum about it? And what do you think he's going
8:59
to do next? And, you know, no worries.
9:03
Like he's got this 100. 50 I don't want to leave the point.
9:07
Like if they'd have ruled a different ruling, like oh, then
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democracy is over because you disagree with a court.
9:14
Ruling Well, I mean, we're not just talking about any old court
9:20
ruling, Kyle. We're talking about this goes to
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this is the kind of thing that the Supreme Court absolutely
9:26
ought to be deciding. This is 100% about separation of
9:30
powers. We have a Congress that is
9:33
emasculated and I mean that in every graphic way that I
9:38
possibly can. Their job is to pass revenue
9:44
bills, including tariffs. That is the job of Congress.
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He took over attempted to take on something that was Congress's
9:53
job. And Congress can't even get
9:55
their act together to fight for their their branches.
10:00
Mike Johnson is willing to just roll over to whatever Trump
10:03
says. Man, that would drive me crazy
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even if I was a Republican. If I'm a representative,
10:09
president just does what he wants.
10:11
That's crazy. You're right that that we got
10:14
the right decision, but my gosh. This is kind of 11th hour.
10:18
So a Democrat controlled Congress was bucking up against
10:22
Biden. No, I mean I, I, I guess, I
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guess that's my point is just like the hyperbole is not
10:32
supported by reality in the past.
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You know, I'm going to say what I've said before, and I think
10:37
it's undeniable. Look, he gets me.
10:40
He he plays right into this, but he deliberately says the
10:45
craziest stuff and, and says that he's gonna like, OK, so you
10:53
don't think that it's different? Like, so Joe Biden did something
10:57
that I thought was a bad idea and the court stopped him.
11:00
And that was the student loan forgiveness.
11:01
I thought that was a bad idea. I thought that worked the way
11:04
that it did, but Joe Biden didn't.
11:08
He didn't say I'm the president, I can do whatever I want.
11:12
I can put any tariff. This is a quote from Trump this
11:14
last week. I can ruin any country in the
11:17
world if I want to. Well, these are different
11:21
animals and you give me the like, well, Joe Biden, this like
11:25
this is a different. But if you read the full
11:27
context, what he was saying is he's like, I got every power in
11:32
the world, but I can't give somebody a 10% tariff.
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He was bitching about the ruling and he was proven wrong.
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I get it. But yeah, OK, the guy's
11:44
objectionable and he voices opinion and he says stuff.
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I'd rather that than somebody mumbling words that make no
11:52
sense and doesn't know what day it is.
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So I. I would rather have pick your
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pick. I would rather have overt
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threats to the rule of law than senility.
12:07
Well, no, but like somebody that disagrees with the law, but the
12:12
law is still there. I like, I don't know, I, it's
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just feel like everybody's like, well, Trump's broken everything.
12:21
No, he hasn't. The institutions are there and,
12:26
and if you disagree with it, you change it.
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You disagree with Congress, change it.
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I think there's going to be a lot of change in Congress at the
12:34
next election, and there always is when another party has the
12:39
office. So I don't know.
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I mean, I don't agree with everything the guy says.
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And I don't know that tariffs are the best thing since sliced
12:48
bread. But I don't think he's broken
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the place. He's he's gone off on some of
12:54
these grand experiments and there's probably some good and
12:57
probably some bad and the, the stuff that's objectionable is
13:02
going to get dealt with like this is getting dealt with.
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But, you know, it's interesting when it comes to tariffs, it is
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nice that we both read at least one news source together.
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So we have some interest there. But I was reading an article
13:18
today in the Journal about the headline Is Trump lost on
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tariffs? But trade will never be the
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same. And one of the things he talks
13:25
about is for all the people that are bitching about Trump and the
13:30
tariffs on the left, they're not in a hurry to do things
13:34
differently either. So it's not like there is this,
13:38
you know, for instance, when Biden took over, you know, Trump
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had put a bunch of tariffs on China.
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Biden didn't touch any of those. So, you know, a lot of it's just
13:49
comical to a degree. Like there's all this, like,
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this is a horrible idea. Now, I'm not putting words in
13:54
your mouth because I think if you were ruling, you're much
13:58
more advocate of free trade than the Trump administration or the
14:02
Democrats. So I'm not trying to, yeah,
14:04
pigeonholed you there. I think you've been really
14:05
consistent that way. But I don't think a lot of the
14:09
Democrats that are griping about it as tariffs, they they may do
14:13
something similar as well. Well, sure.
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And I hope, and that's one of the reasons that the Supreme
14:19
Court ruling is so important, because I don't want, and, and I
14:24
am consistent about this, I don't want President Newsome,
14:28
President Buttigieg, President Shapiro.
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OK, the third one would be better than the first two.
14:36
I don't want any of those three with unfettered power to do what
14:42
they want 'cause I do think that they have bad ideas.
14:45
We, we have said this before, It's been a while.
14:48
I mean, I will say that inertia in Congress, slowness to change
14:54
things. I think it's a good thing you
14:56
call it the swamp, whatever you call it.
14:58
Yeah, if something's that good an idea.
15:00
And look, I'm I'm not even as opposed to all tariffs blanket
15:06
across the I kind of am. It really runs against my grain
15:09
as a free market capitalist to terrorists.
15:13
I just like it horrifies me, period.
15:16
Even though even though all these same countries do it to
15:19
us, you're OK with just rolling over and let the other countries
15:24
tariff us, put on vats and put up trade barriers.
15:27
Like that's all OK, but don't fight back.
15:30
Well, no, I'm going to say in general, my, my, my instinct is
15:35
against tariff, but I don't think we need to go toe for toe
15:40
with them because tariffs aren't the only factor in trade.
15:45
If you really want to win, win in the marketplace, the the
15:50
trade. The reason that they have to
15:52
tariff us is because our stuff is so much better than theirs.
15:58
Do you see what I'm saying? Like the tariff is is a it's an
16:01
externality. If you think about it from a
16:03
macroeconomic perspective, you got a supply and demand line
16:07
that cost. What tariffs do is they just
16:09
Jack the price point across the board.
16:12
Doesn't really change the interplay between supply and
16:15
demand, doesn't really change the equilibrium price.
16:19
The equilibrium price is what it is plus the tariff.
16:22
So it doesn't. No, I don't think it matters
16:25
that the other countries put traits on us.
16:28
But there's all kinds of examples of that, of products we
16:31
can't sell internationally because they put up a bunch of
16:34
barriers and we are OK with like, no penalty to them.
16:39
That's the fundamental part that, you know, I get that the
16:43
way he's enacted them is crude and in general there's
16:48
challenges around tariffs. But I like the fight because a
16:53
lot of these countries like there, we're never going to sell
16:57
a product over there. It has nothing to do with the
16:59
quality of the product. It has to do with their bullshit
17:01
protective protectionism. Yeah, I, you know, if you like
17:06
the fight, we ought to have the right fight.
17:09
I, I don't think tariffs is the right fight.
17:12
I, I don't know. I, I don't think we should be
17:14
selling. I, I don't think we should be
17:16
competing with China to make freaking Tupperware.
17:19
No, I think we should let China make the Tupperware.
17:21
We should make the jet engines. Yeah, OK, great.
17:26
But they we're going to buy all of freaking Tupperware and
17:30
they're not going to buy a single jet engine the way.
17:33
They each bet they probably are going to buy some jet engines,
17:36
like if our stuff is worth it, it's going to sell.
17:39
I'm just saying they make it. Every other country in the world
17:44
uses tools against us and for years we've never done anything
17:47
in return, and I think that's a mistake.
17:49
Yeah, I don't think we've never done anything.
17:53
I'm I'm arguing. Selectively, probably in every
17:57
administration. Really.
17:58
Yeah, it's kind of hard 'cause we're not really talking the the
18:02
specifics. I'm kind of arguing this general
18:05
case against tariff. And, you know, yeah, of course
18:09
there's times when it's appropriate.
18:10
But again, I would say jacking at 5% 'cause I didn't like the
18:15
way the lady talked to me is no way to run a country.
18:19
But, you know, you make a good point, and that part of the
18:23
problem with tariffs is the science behind who pays for
18:30
them. It's not like cut and dry.
18:36
There's a lot of factors that go into it.
18:39
So it's, I mean, yeah, I get a lot of journalists said that
18:43
consumers pay, but there's a whole lot of variables that are
18:48
embedded in that. And I think part of what the
18:57
challenge, I think, of any opposition to tariffs is, you
19:03
know, your point is Trump's a bull in the China shop and he's
19:08
just Willy nilly throwing in percentages because somebody
19:11
pissed him off about a watch. And he's very inexact.
19:15
But I would argue that all of these measures are inexact to a
19:21
degree because there are so many factors.
19:23
It's not like a scientific one for one type of a situation.
19:29
I mean, there's, there's choices people have, you know, there's
19:32
OK, you can compare it to how it was previously, but there's a
19:38
lot of factors that build into that.
19:40
You don't think we can get more precise than a 5% swing one way
19:45
or the other depending on how the phone call goes with him?
19:50
I mean, I just think that's crazy.
19:52
I you're, you're right. It's not.
19:53
No, it's, it's kind of a blunt instrument anyway.
19:57
But then you put a blunt instrument in the hands of a
20:00
toddler. Well, OK, but I also like that
20:07
the part I like about that is I, I mean, I don't care about the
20:13
Swiss watches, but I also like that folks know that somebody's
20:21
unpredictable. The unpredictability can be a,
20:24
an advantage in many cases. And so I like I, I wouldn't have
20:29
picked that fight. I'm not going to be protesting
20:32
in the street. We need to add tariffs to switch
20:34
watches like, but I do like the fact that he's a prickly
20:38
character and people have to stay on their toes to deal with
20:41
them. I think there's advantage to the
20:43
US when you have a president who's not.
20:46
Extremely predictable. I actually see that and I'll
20:49
concede that point. The problem is that it's not
20:54
merely that he's unpredictable. He actually is extremely
20:59
predictable. It sounds like he's like he's
21:06
volatile and just changes his mind.
21:08
The truth is that, and this is how a lot of countries have
21:13
figured this out. If you just kiss his ass, he
21:18
likes that. And again, if he was
21:21
unpredictable because he had market divergent views on what
21:27
you know, because he he had something in his idea because he
21:30
watched Fox News and he thought watches were should be tariffed
21:34
higher. Like if it's merely.
21:36
The I watched the shows Kent. If it's merely that kind of
21:41
volatility, that's one thing. That do you do you remember that
21:44
is during I think it's the first campaign and they're like, where
21:47
do you get your news? Like, well, you know, I watch
21:49
the shows. The the we have the presidential
21:58
equivalent of Elvis sitting in the jungle room watching 3 TV's.
22:05
I hope Robert Goulet doesn't come on 'cause you know what
22:08
happens. Then I mean, I think anyway,
22:13
but, but so the volatility, I look, there's some, there's some
22:17
validity to that, you know, I mean, this was Nixon's thing.
22:22
You know, he, he told him I'm a madman.
22:24
You better, you better solve this 'cause you don't know what
22:27
you're going to get. So that can be a valuable
22:30
strategy. But I don't think he's
22:32
unpredictable. I literally think that everybody
22:36
knows that you've just got to kiss his ass.
22:39
You got to give him a gold thing to hang in the White House.
22:43
You got to give him a gaudy airplane.
22:47
You got to literally like, this is what, Like, he's completely
22:52
predictable. And I don't want to jump away
22:56
from the Supreme Court and the tariffs yet, but I'm dying to
22:58
weave this in. If you don't think that he is
23:03
completely predictable, rewind and watch every word that came
23:09
out of Pam Bondi's mouth in her congressional testimony.
23:13
And we have agreed that congressional testimony is BS to
23:16
begin with and it's a grandstanding thing.
23:20
But when that clown responds to a question about the victims of
23:26
the Epstein scandal and says the Dow is at 50,000 because Donald
23:36
Trump, like whoever her speech writer was, was like OK, imagine
23:44
Trump is going to hear some of these words.
23:47
How do we make everything that she says sound like a suck up to
23:52
him without any regard to the issues of the Epstein thing?
23:57
And you're right, these congressional hearings are
23:59
bullshit. Please tell me.
24:02
Please tell me when her response to the question about the victim
24:06
standing behind you was to quote the Dow incorrectly.
24:09
She didn't know how the Dow is enumerated.
24:12
Democrats that are railing her in Congress about the Epstein
24:15
victims give 3 shits about any of those victims 'cause, you
24:20
know, they were really serious about the Epstein files five
24:24
years ago. You think they care?
24:26
No, they don't. I this is not a Democrat.
24:31
Congress is such a great thing. That's not my point here.
24:35
My point is she's a clown, man. That was just so it, it was so
24:40
hard to watch because you could tell that the entire thing was a
24:45
grovel to Trump to try to keep her job.
24:48
Did you see, did you see the banner that she unrolled at the
24:55
Justice Department? No.
24:58
OK, we're going to take a momentary time out where I asked
25:03
Kyle to Google the banner that Pam Bondi has now hung at the
25:09
Justice Department. I'm looking this is the oh ha ha
25:15
ha ha. Kyle, repeat after me.
25:21
I'm trying to make this country like North Korea.
25:25
Yeah, well, that's that's the thing.
25:27
Yeah, we, I just came from the Middle East.
25:31
Yeah, just put everybody's face on the Yeah, that's pretty
25:34
cheesy. Thank you.
25:38
Thank you for acknowledging that.
25:41
Is that his mug shot from Georgia?
25:44
Probably it's the one that the Justice Department happened to
25:48
have in the database. You know, what I love is you
25:52
know, they changed the White House.
25:56
If you've seen this, that'll make you do some research.
25:58
They changed the White House like icon or some shit for for
26:06
LinkedIn. Go to Barack Obama's LinkedIn
26:09
profile, go to his job history and consists President of the
26:16
United States and it's got Donald Trump's picture.
26:24
That's that's beautiful. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that.
26:28
Now I get that. I I'm not a super enamoured with
26:34
Pam Bondi. She does sound like an idiot.
26:38
What I don't want I'm not trying to but I burn you on this but
26:43
what was she even doing with these like like this list of
26:49
well you didn't think about that when you for like it was like a
26:53
Saturday Night Live sketch I. I don't completely disagree with
26:59
the sentiment. I mean, she sounds like a a
27:02
idiot, I get that. But I do think like she's
27:09
inarticulately trying to call out the Democrats on the
27:12
political sideshow that they're making out of the Epstein thing.
27:17
And I'm not super satisfied with the Epstein results as it is.
27:23
I, I side a lot more with Thomas Massie then probably the rest of
27:28
the Republicans. And I think he's right.
27:32
And I think, OK, we're going down the Epstein path.
27:36
I'm not worried so much like, well, not worried.
27:40
I don't give a crap, but I don't think it, it's a Trump thing.
27:44
We've talked about that. But I think there are other
27:46
people and I don't know who they are, but there are powerful
27:50
people involved that they're they're covering for, which is
27:53
bullshit. And I and I don't, I don't agree
27:56
with that. But at the same time, I don't
28:00
feel like that's part of why, you know, you talked about the
28:06
ineffectual element of Congress. I mean, that's part of why I
28:10
don't feel like they're capable of doing anything.
28:13
Like everything is just like a political sideshow trying to get
28:18
like click bait on TikTok or something.
28:21
Like what are they actually doing?
28:23
Can they actually just pass a law?
28:26
I mean, could you, could you actually make sure instead of
28:30
like having gotcha moments with officials, like how could they
28:37
actually get to the bottom of this thing?
28:38
All these senators and congressman, my understanding is
28:41
they all can go into a room and they can see all the like
28:46
unredacted files on Epstein. Where's the like, where is the
28:52
smoking gun that they're all professing to the public 'cause
28:56
they're seeing the unredacted? Like, where is that reporting
29:01
from Congress versus like having a argument with Pam Bondi?
29:06
You know what I mean? Well, yeah, I mean, there's some
29:11
truth to that. Although it's 6,000,000
29:14
documents, they get a web, they get a browser search and two
29:18
hours per person. You know, like they're kind of
29:22
really restricted in that. And I look, I get the
29:28
grandstanding with Congress, but it is fair.
29:32
It is fair to ask some questions about why it took so long to
29:38
release the materials, why the redactions are that they are.
29:42
Those are fair questions. And obviously, they were asked
29:45
in a way to put her on the spot. But for as ineffective as
29:50
Congress is, they passed a law with a single dissenting vote
29:56
that they need to release the damn files.
29:59
Yeah, I mean that's this is a Congress that can't scratch its
30:03
own ass. Right.
30:06
And they passed this with one dissenter.
30:09
So it's it's obvious to them, it's obvious to their
30:14
constituents. I don't I thought a good a good
30:20
day to point is, I mean, the Europeans are prosecuting more
30:28
people for Epstein than the US Justice Department.
30:31
How does that work? I mean, it granted, like we
30:35
don't they've we've talked about this.
30:38
They're a little bit less free of a country so they can come up
30:40
with some weird crap that we can't pin on somebody.
30:44
But I mean, at least get us a couple indictments or something
30:48
for Pete's sake. Yeah, it is.
30:51
It is gratifying to me. Did you see, you know, there.
30:57
Look, I don't think there's probably not enough in a bunch
31:02
of old emails to convict anybody in a court case, right?
31:06
Unless you're a former Prince of the UK who was, in addition to
31:14
partying with the sex trafficker, shipping him all of
31:18
Britain's trade secrets. But no, I mean, it's probably
31:23
not a lot to convict these people, but I'm getting a lot of
31:29
satisfaction out of watching some people.
31:33
We're we're not prosecuting anybody.
31:35
But there's it's starting to happen.
31:38
The general counsel of Goldman. Case in point, I mean, I think
31:45
they need to ditch Lutnik. He's full of crap.
31:48
Did you see? Did you read that whole thing?
31:50
Yeah, we even talked about it on the podcast, 'cause he sounded
31:53
like, oh man, what a stand up guy.
31:54
You know, he went over there and he said, well, I've never, I'm
31:57
never going to go there again. Oh, except I'm going to send
31:59
emails to the guy and I'm going to go to his.
32:01
Island for lunch like we're going to hell.
32:05
We're going to dock the and and his.
32:10
His explanation was well, obviously it was innocuous
32:17
because I took my children to Epstein's island.
32:23
See, it was fine. What?
32:28
Oh, gosh, that is sad because I really admired what he said when
32:32
it first came out. You know, I was like, yeah, I
32:34
finally thank you. That's how you should react.
32:38
And whether there's anything that implicates Trump.
32:40
I don't think they're going to find a smoking gun.
32:42
They sure aren't now because if it was it's hidden.
32:45
But if. Yeah, I don't think there's
32:47
anything to hang on Trump. But you know what Trump didn't
32:50
say hey, Palm Beach police this guy's a pig.
32:53
He's doing some terrible things and you need to investigate him.
32:57
He he didn't have happened. You didn't see that.
33:01
You didn't see that that was seriously, you didn't see that
33:07
that was a big article last week.
33:08
He had a communication with them before he got and he said this
33:14
guy is a scumbag. You didn't hear about that?
33:17
No, I didn't. Was he referring to the real
33:19
estate deals? It was.
33:22
I mean, if he did and it was, then, then, then that's the
33:26
right answer. Good for him.
33:28
Yeah, that was a thing that had come out.
33:32
And I'm not saying it was perfect, but he yeah, he's it,
33:37
said they he contacted the Palm Beach Police Department in 2006,
33:41
telling the police chief that everybody knew about his
33:43
misconduct and about the gist lane.
33:47
Really. He called the Palm Beach police
33:51
chief in July 20, 2006, after local authorities began
33:55
investigating. Did he testify in that court in
33:59
that debacle of a court case in Florida?
34:02
That would have been interesting.
34:04
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, no, that was that was one
34:08
of the things in the latest. But honestly, it doesn't
34:11
surprise me. I, I, you know, I think I've
34:14
been consistent about that. I I don't, I don't think that
34:19
he's going to be directly implicated.
34:23
But it even makes it more weird, Kyle.
34:25
That's the thing. Right?
34:26
Like, OK, he knew it. He was on the right side of
34:30
history. He turned the guy in.
34:32
Well, who the hell are you protecting now, then?
34:36
Yeah, who does the President of the United States of America
34:40
fear? And who is again, who is 500
34:44
Congressmen? Protect whoever the hell is
34:46
looking at these files. I mean, yeah, it just doesn't
34:51
add up. No, it still doesn't.
34:53
And I'm I'm not trying to fan conspiracy theory flames, but
34:59
OK, I didn't see that record. I'll look for it.
35:01
But OK, so if he did like he's got nothing to fear.
35:07
Yeah, his his name's in the files a lot.
35:10
He corresponded with the guy. They're going to find a lot of
35:12
stuff. They talked about him a lot of
35:15
Trump's again, I'm going to stipulate cause fair is fair.
35:19
I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the mentions of Trump name, I
35:22
don't know if you saw Jared Moskowitz, he was like, Trump's
35:28
name appears more in the Epstein files then God's name appears in
35:32
the Bible or Harry Potter's name appears in the Harry Potter
35:37
books. But admittedly, Donald Trump, a
35:42
former friend of Epstein, was elected president when all this
35:45
was going on. And so there's a lot of the
35:48
mentions of Trump's name. Yeah, full, Full disclosure,
35:52
that are Epstein saying to his buddies this about Trump, that
35:55
about Trump. So I mean, obviously Trump's
35:57
going to be in there, but it it seems like he was doing the
36:02
right thing. So who are you covering for?
36:06
I just don't. Well, and then, OK, so if we go
36:09
down that conspiracy path, I mean, it's like something out of
36:14
a movie. Are there are there people so
36:18
powerful that they're pulling the strings?
36:21
And then is our world really not governed in a democratic
36:25
environment with people voting for people?
36:27
Is Trump president because of, you know, the trilateral
36:30
Commission put him in power and they're going to put the next
36:32
guy in power. And those are the sons of
36:35
bitches that every president, every person in Congress and
36:39
Trump and everybody else fears. Seems far fetched, but it.
36:44
Well, it would have seemed far fetched in a different world,
36:47
but you look around and like, it's hard.
36:51
It's hard to imagine. Trump acts genuinely afraid
36:57
about the Epstein files to me. He, he, he, he does, he, he, he,
37:04
he acts different about it than he does about other things.
37:08
Other things are just a fight that he can have and he loves to
37:10
have a fight. Like, that's fine.
37:12
That's not the vibe that I get with this.
37:15
It looks totally different. Yeah, it looks like someone's
37:19
got him by the balls. Yeah, it's and then that's the
37:25
mind blowing part as you start thinking about, again, I always
37:28
go back to that that video of Bush Senior's funeral and
37:34
they're showing the piece of paper that goes around and
37:37
everybody's pissed when they read the paper, like, OK, the
37:41
next one is this. And then you got to do this, and
37:45
then you got to do that like, like somebody's out putting out
37:49
the directives and they're like, OK.
37:53
Well, but again, like this. Would that even work if it's
37:57
true like, and who the hell is it?
37:59
Well, and it's probably somebody.
38:01
Nobody knows if if that was really the case, we wouldn't
38:05
have any clue who that person is.
38:07
But like practically, how would that work?
38:10
It doesn't make any sense. Well, honestly, I mean, this is
38:15
so weird because I feel like I'm arguing for something that I
38:18
think is nonsense, but the nonsense is the only path that
38:23
seems to fit the fact pattern to me.
38:26
But of all people, So who's the who's the president of the
38:28
United States afraid to speak out against that?
38:31
That ought to scare us. You know what's even worse?
38:35
Who's the person that the former presidents of the United States
38:40
are afraid to speak out to, right?
38:41
Like, OK, so Trump, theoretically, the Trilateral
38:45
Commission, the Bilderbergers or the Alliance of the Trilateral
38:48
and the Bilderbergers together send their envoy to Trump and
38:52
say, yeah, don't release the files.
38:54
And so he's like, well, I can make trade noise.
38:57
I can do, but I can't really files because if you do, we're
39:03
going to expose you we're going to run oppo stuff we're going to
39:06
we're going to call Congress and tell them that they.
39:08
We're going to kill you. Right.
39:10
Yeah. Torture your family but.
39:13
Other than we're going to kill you.
39:16
I mean, what's Barack Obama got to be afraid of?
39:22
He's got enough money he's got and nothing to like.
39:27
What is he? I don't get it.
39:29
Yeah. He's got less at stake than
39:31
Trump does. Yeah, and I'm sure he you'd
39:34
think he knows what there is to know.
39:38
Yeah. How does that work?
39:40
The Bohemian, they were at the Bohemian Grove 1 summer and they
39:46
that's a good one. You familiar with the Bohemian
39:48
Grove? Oh, yeah.
39:49
David Geffen or whatever who, who's that guy?
39:52
David Griffin, The guy that used to be a king, maker of sorts.
39:56
Geffen. Political consultant.
39:58
Yeah, yeah. But it's been around for 150
40:00
years. It's it's a big deal.
40:02
And yeah. Did you ever see that Alex
40:04
Jones, David Giffen altercation over it?
40:08
That was pretty interesting. Yeah.
40:09
Because I think Alex Jones, like, camped out outside or
40:13
something. He caught David.
40:14
And then Geffen is like, this is a private matter.
40:17
What are you doing? Like, OK, I mean, and then it's
40:23
like, if somebody's in charge like that, wouldn't they be
40:30
benefiting and living the high life?
40:32
And and so where is everybody would know who that person is?
40:37
You would think, like if it's a foreign government, well then
40:41
the foreign governments living in high, you know, OK, it's the
40:45
Russians. Well, the Russians have a crappy
40:48
country and, you know, like. Right.
40:52
If you if you had that kind of power and you were a Russian,
40:56
you, you wouldn't be a Russian anymore, right?
41:01
But you know, I wonder some of this is kind of like a mindset
41:04
thing. I've said for years, you know, I
41:09
would love to be rich. I would rather be dead than
41:12
famous. Like famous is not interesting
41:14
to me. And I guess it's the power, the
41:19
power to pick those things. Maybe, again, maybe there's
41:24
something wrong with me. Every thought that I have about
41:29
getting rich is about getting further away from other human
41:35
beings and further away from all of this politics and shit.
41:39
Like the whole reason to get. Me on a private jet by myself
41:44
going to some place with no humans and isolating myself.
41:47
Yes. Like the like the more money,
41:50
the bigger the private island that I buy and the further away
41:55
it is from other people. And so like I don't, I don't get
42:00
what I don't get what people want.
42:03
I don't. I don't get what even would
42:04
motivate that. Yeah, well, and I, you know, I
42:09
mean, as much as I've called on you to run for office so I can,
42:15
I can be the campaign manager for a Liberal Democrat.
42:20
I mean, that's why you, you're not going to run for office.
42:23
You don't have a big enough ego. I don't have big like we're just
42:27
a couple of knuckleheads that drink booze and talk on the
42:31
podcast. Like like these people that
42:35
like, do you think you you're smart enough to run the country?
42:38
That's a big ego. Well, I think, I mean, I don't
42:44
know, smart enough to run the country.
42:46
I think I'm smarter than the average congressman, but yeah.
42:51
Maybe that's smart enough, but like, yeah, you're not like,
42:56
yeah, objectively you're smart enough.
42:59
You're you're smart as a lot of the Yahoo's that are running for
43:02
president. It's just the, it's like the
43:06
value that somebody puts in that and the value that they put in
43:11
the power. And that's why we have chronic
43:16
problems with corruption. That's why every few years we
43:20
find somebody that's got their hand in the because, and, and
43:26
it's interesting because it's usually not about money per SE,
43:31
It's that they want that power. And I, I just don't understand
43:37
that. I, I just don't understand that
43:39
I, I would love to serve my country.
43:42
I, I feel like honestly, this is, you know, kind of a
43:47
vulnerability. I am a little embarrassed that
43:52
I'd never served in the military or never did anything that
43:56
constituted, you know, kind of national service.
44:00
And I feel obligated to that, but not obligated enough that I
44:06
want to give up all of my privacy.
44:10
And you know what I mean? Like, not that.
44:14
Interested. I would call a little BS on you
44:18
on that a little bit and that, I mean, I don't call BS on your
44:22
feelings, but I mean, you've served this country because
44:27
you've worked at a university. I mean, and now I think
44:30
universities are all communist, but there's that.
44:32
But I mean, you've, you've helped through your efforts,
44:37
thousands of students get an education and go become
44:40
healthcare professionals. I, I think that's just as much
44:43
services, you know, I, I don't know, I mean nothing negative,
44:48
but I mean, there's a lot of people in the military, you
44:51
know, that collected a paycheck. I mean, the number of people
44:56
that jumped on grenades is a pretty small number.
44:59
You know, yeah, well, fair enough.
45:01
And thank you very much. I appreciate that.
45:04
And, and I do, you know, I, I do feel like that, you know,
45:10
without getting into my job so much, but I do think there's a
45:14
bit of a calling to it. And I feel like it's, I think
45:19
that given the work that I do and my colleagues do probably
45:25
make a lot more money selling pharmaceuticals.
45:27
So I mean, there is an element of especially vaccines, there's
45:33
an element of public service in that.
45:35
And so thank you for recognizing that.
45:37
But again, I feel like that's important, but that's not what I
45:43
see when I look at Congress and the Senate.
45:46
I I see people at the apex of their own ego.
45:51
Well, I mean, let's look at Trump.
45:53
I mean, he's not, you know, the 400 grand a year isn't what's,
45:59
you know, motivating him. I mean, and you know, he could
46:03
be, he could be worth billions and an unknown guy running
46:09
properties globally and could have been doing, you know,
46:12
there's a lot of people in the real estate business that you've
46:14
never heard of, but there's a reason he's heard of.
46:18
I think he's loves that attention.
46:22
And I, I mean, I think you, you look at anybody else that's run
46:26
for president, there's a. Like.
46:30
There's not many of those guys that would shy away from a
46:34
podium someplace. I mean, I think there have been
46:36
probably presidents that probably were not like dying to
46:41
get in the limelight like Gerald Ford, but, you know.
46:45
Yeah, Gerald Ford, Calvin Coolidge.
46:48
I mean, but no, you know, but that's what's, you know, it's
46:53
funny you say that because that's a really interesting
46:55
fact. You're right.
46:56
I agree. I think the difference with
46:59
Trump, like most of the rest of them, they want the limelight.
47:05
They want, like, all of that. But unlike them, Trump is
47:10
equally satisfied with hatred as he is with love.
47:15
And I don't see that from the other presidents.
47:18
No. Richard Nixon, a little bit.
47:20
Nixon a little bit. He was motivated by hatred.
47:24
Well, but I think that we had a previous podcast and we were
47:28
talking about that, about the brand.
47:32
And I think what Trump has tapped into, and I think other
47:36
people will learn from him, is that like, yeah, if they're bad
47:40
mouthing you all day long, that's just as good as loving
47:44
you all day long. Your name's on the front page.
47:48
I think he he thrives on that. And I think a lot of the crap he
47:51
says purely to get more of that. Yeah, no, I think you're right.
47:56
And it works because it like it's like a.
48:00
It's a drug for the press for sure.
48:03
Yeah, and it's like an electric jolt to the most painful, you
48:07
know, it. It gets under my skin.
48:09
I completely agree with that. But I mean, and honestly, we've
48:16
talked about that. If you really wanted to defeat
48:19
Trump, ignore and don't mention his name.
48:23
But it's like that's an impossible ask.
48:28
You know, it'd be interesting in the next presidential election
48:32
if someone could could do that, could say I'm going to run for
48:38
president from the primary season to the end and I'm and
48:42
announce it like I'm never going to say the word Trump.
48:47
I'm going to rail on Pam Bondi. I'm going to talk about Marco
48:51
Rubio. I'm going to RIP JD Vance up and
48:54
down. I'm going to talk about the the
48:56
Republican Congress. I'm never going to say his name.
49:01
That would be kind of an interesting strategy, almost.
49:04
Well, and I I've thought about that too.
49:06
Like, how many years from today will there be a day that you
49:13
could scroll through the entire CNN website and not see the name
49:17
Trump in one place? I I don't know that it's ever
49:20
going to happen. Well, it will, but several
49:25
things have to happen before before we get there.
49:30
Well, but even if the guy dies, I mean, they're still going to
49:33
be talking about him every day. Yeah, 20 years now you did talk
49:38
about. Now, I don't want to go down
49:40
another path, but I don't, you know, I'm not.
49:47
I'm not. I don't.
49:49
I don't think JD Vance is positioning himself well for the
49:55
next office. I certainly don't think Pam
49:58
Bondi, I mean, I'm with you. There's some of these people
50:00
that are. She sounds like a Yahoo.
50:03
I will say Marco Rubio is been pretty impressive so far, I and
50:08
I. I can't argue with that.
50:09
I think you, yeah, yeah, I think he's, I think he's done well.
50:16
I think he's a smart guy. I think he was a legitimate
50:19
contender and probably would have made a decent Republican
50:24
nominee until he got branded as Little Marco.
50:31
Like, I mean seriously, like in the next election, all you got
50:35
to do, all you got to do is dig up stuff that Trump said about
50:40
people and run that well. You know, Speaking of, you know,
50:47
some of his nicknames. I mean, there he could get
50:51
another Supreme Court Justice. And you know one of the names
50:53
getting floated around is lying Ted.
50:57
I think that would be, I think that would be such an insult to
51:03
the legitimate Trump justices. You know, if there weren't very
51:11
many seats in the lifeboat, I'm not sure how many I would offer
51:15
to Kavanaugh. But but man, to say, hey, good
51:22
news, you're in a, you're a young guy, you're in a, a
51:25
conservative majority on the court.
51:27
You're going to spend the next 20 years, 30 years of your life
51:31
with Ted Cruz's office down the hall.
51:38
You know, I always did. I always thought he was a really
51:42
good debater. Like you'd see him in Congress.
51:45
I mean, granted, you wouldn't agree with anything coming out
51:50
of his mouth, but I always thought, you know, he was a
51:52
really good debater until and you, you probably still haven't
51:56
watched it, but until that Tucker Carlson bit on Iran, then
52:00
I'm like, this guy's an idiot. You want regime change in Iran?
52:05
How many people live in Iran, you know?
52:10
Yeah, interesting. Anyways, we've we've gone back
52:15
and forth and around tariffs. When do you think the next
52:19
president's going to get an office that's not going to use
52:22
tariffs? Don't think it's going to
52:24
happen. I think that I think tariffs,
52:27
higher tariffs and more punitive tariffs are here to stay.
52:33
But hopefully they will be debated in Congress and done in
52:38
an intentional and thoughtful way and not done randomly.
52:46
You know, it's, it's a truism that business doesn't like
52:51
unpredictability. You know, tell us what the
52:54
tariffs going to be. We'll price it in and we'll go
52:57
with that. Interestingly, and I'll leave
53:00
you with this, because even though liberal, I'm a little
53:05
bit, you know, capitalist when it comes to me.
53:09
So I saw the, I saw the Supreme Court announcement and the first
53:15
thing that I did was to look at what the markets were doing.
53:19
And I thought, oh man, this is going to be a good day for me.
53:24
And it was OK. But I mean, the markets were up
53:30
like less than 1%. And I, I was kind of floored by
53:35
that. But I read some things that
53:37
said, no, actually the market had already priced it.
53:40
People had already figured that the court was going to do this.
53:42
So it wasn't really a surprise. If the court had ruled the other
53:46
way, it would have been a, a, a market bloodbath, probably.
53:50
So to your question, no, it's here to stay and we're going to
53:53
do it. And even though it runs against
53:56
migraine, I certainly admit that there are times when it's the
53:58
right thing to do. Can we agree though that
54:02
whatever we do with tariffs that we want to have more inputs to
54:07
the decision than how a woman speaks to our president on a 10
54:13
minute phone call? I don't know because some of the
54:18
people that are weighing in, I could care less what they think.
54:23
So I don't know no well, and I kind of mean that kind of
54:28
joking, but kind of semi serious.
54:32
His random sophomoric behavior, I don't know, is any worse than
54:40
some of these think tanks and some of them bull crap that they
54:43
come up with. So yeah, I mean, I get.
54:46
You I. I I concede your point that
54:49
yeah, hopefully there's something a little more mature
54:52
than that, but at the same time, some of those mature decisions
54:55
aren't necessarily any better. Agreed.
54:58
All right, appreciate it. Good talk to you.
55:01
Yeah, same here. All right.
55:03
I didn't even have to recharge my drink.
55:04
That's good. Hey, thanks for joining us on
55:11
this episode of Bourbon and Rum Podcast.
55:13
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55:16
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55:18
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55:22
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55:28
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