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Are New or Old Overland Vehicles Better for Travel? · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I am here with two
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: of my heroes. I've got Dan Grek and Graham Bell
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: here on this podcast. We're going to have a little
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: bit of banter back and forth on which is better
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the brand new vehicle that has got low mileage and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: all the new tech to cross the continent or the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: tried and true old vehicle that you've owned for a
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: long time and you know how to service and repair yourself.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: What's the better choice for overlanding. I'm sure you've got
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: your own thoughts and ideas, but I suspect each of
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: them are going to do their best to sway you
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: towards their argument. So thank you both for being on
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the podcast today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: It's a pleasure. Scott.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks, and a special thanks to Treder for their support
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: of this week's podcast. One of the age old problems
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: of vehicle dependent ad venture travel is something that you
• 1:01
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• 1:04
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• 1:07
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• 1:11
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• 1:39
  Speaker 1: t R e dd Er dot com, thank you again
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: for the support Tredder. So real quick, Dan, why don't
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: you tell us what was the last couple of vehicles
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: that you used on your and your continental crossings are
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: interesting because they're usually some form I'm going to call
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it a circumd because of how they have changed you
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: as a person. But it's certainly a circumnavigation of the continents,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: and so I'd love to hear the last couple of
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: vehicles that you've used for these big circumnavigations of land,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: circumnavigations of the continents.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: For sure, Scott. Yeah, the most recent ones. I drove
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: a JK Wrangler all the way around Africa, and that
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: was four years old when I set out, and so
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: only seven years old when I finished. Three years later,
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I got a brand new Jeep Gladiator to circumnavigate Australia
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: and tackled all of the remote tracks in Australia. And
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: then right now I've got a three year old Wrangler
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Echo Diesel that I just took from Iceland down to
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Tunisia in North Africa, so all of Europe. So yeah,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: all of my vehicles are the oldest. One I've ever
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: had actually was nine years old when I set out
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: to drive the Pan American Highway. And a funny quirk
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: of my life, I've never owned a carburetor, so everything
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I've ever owned in my life has been fuel injected
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: airbags ABS. I think the first one didn't have a
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: traction control or stability, but all of the ones since
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: then have had so very modern vehicles.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: The first one even had a soft top, if I
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: remember it did. Yeah, that's impressive to go do the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: drive through the Americas with a two door shore wheelbase
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Wrangler with a soft top. So I think you just
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: drove what you had. That was an amazing one.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Scott, there's a fine line between brave
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and crazy, and I think at some Australia and you
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: go for it, and people judge on the outcome, but
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: you don't know what the outcome is going to be
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: unless you go and do it.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: That's true. Speaking of brave and crazy, Graham, Let's talk
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit about you've really had two land Rovers
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: that you've traveled with extensively, the first one. You've bought
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: them both in South Africa, but they were both Defenders.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the two Defenders that
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: you did most of your travels with.
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: That's the same defender had one. I had serious vehicles
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: with a flat noses. I had a Range Classic for
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: my sins. Yeah, I've always had an old brain helped
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: land rovers. The vast majority of my traveling has been
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: with the one Defender. It was double I pick up
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: that can never get to South America, a little a
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: bunch of East Africa and that, and then in the
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: US we converted it into the camera. So yeah, that
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: is that. And I've traveled with the newest vehicle I
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: think I traveled, which was a fifty.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Or three forty sorry from Nimble Vehicles, which I had
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: for two weeks, and that's the newest.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: But otherwise it's always been old rangevers, old land rovers
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: a two thousand and six Dodgs RAM. But yeah, the
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: vast majority of traveling has been with my old two
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: thousand and three defender.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that one has really seen a lot of miles.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: And as I recall, the majority of your travels in
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: the beginning were all quite reliable. So how long did
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: it to perform with minimal issues.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Until I got to the Andes The trip six months
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: trip up to East Africa from Cape Town and then
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: back down through Nobia didn't touch my toolbox. It was fantastic.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Then we've got it over to South America, went across
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: the Result twice, went all the way down to Shire
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: and then we got to this crossing from Argentina over
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: to l five thousand meters of people here. And that's
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: what the landover said. No, I've had enough. It's not
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: to get a pretty back up by the five times over.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: Oh and it's just been as basically just maintenance. Citizens
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: then I've had the engines never been over. It's got
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: four hundred and forty two. All of that hard work
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: I've got. I've changed injector sells that's far down into
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: the engine in the locker, but I've never changed the
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: starting motor, I've changed the alternative bearing. Yeah, the work
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: that I've done has been basic stuff, personally electronic, fantastic.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: And when you started your travels, how many kilometers did
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: it have on it? So it was definitely not a
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: new vehicle, definitely.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a long vehicle. Before I got it,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I didn't have been in an accident.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about my own travels and almost all
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: of them have been in new vehicles. A land Cruisers
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that we took Dollar seven Continents had. We took delivery
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of them at the production line in Nicolehead, Japan, so
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: they had less than a kilometer on them, and of
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: course we never had a single failure of any of
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: them along that line. And then more recently the Granadeer,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: which was a bit of a gamble for me because
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: it was a totally unknown vehicle and I had concerns
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: because there was just no track record. But even that one,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I think it started with three thousand kilometers on it
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: and no issues with it. So I think modern vehicles
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: in general, whether it be a TD five Defender or
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: a brand new Jeep, modern vehicles I think are more reliable,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: even if they have a few more miles on them.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: But would you guys, like, let me just position this,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: like Graham, do you feel like that maybe it's that
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: your defender is really this pinnacle defender and in many
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: ways people would say that it was. Or do you
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: feel like that you would have just as much success
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: with a Series three land Rover or something like that?
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, I think think i'd have as special Series three
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: with an original sound right off to the market thing.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: I'm about maintenance, and I think that's where what engines need.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: If you don't, if you don't have a limit, if
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: you have a good angeline, a good vehicle, you take
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: care of it. You'll just keep good worry about it.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: And I think that it's also interesting because it almost
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: wants I almost want to contrast a little bit. Even
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: though Australians and South Africans do have a lot of similarities,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: there are also some unique differences too. Australians their distances
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: are so vast, like even though Southern Africa can be
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: very vast, but there's always kind of people around, But Australia,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: the distances can be so vast that I don't really
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: see Australians in general using older vehicles, at least not
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: for long distance touring. It's fairly uncommon to see an
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Australian using an older vehicle, whereas in Southern Africa, I
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: see Overlanders using any version of vehicles, new, old, vintage.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe they're taking it on a rally and it's an
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: old Porestry five to six and or it's a brand
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: new Defender. I do see a wide range of vehicle
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: choices from South Africans, and I see the same from Americans.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Some Americans just find it very charming to drive around
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the world in a really old vehicle. What's your thoughts
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: on that, Dan, Do you think it's part of the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Australian culture to be just the newer vehicle really well
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: set up from the first kilometer.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting take I'd never thought of, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: I do agree with you that the vast majority of
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: people we saw touring in Australia they had a vehicle
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: five years older or less. In fact, a lot of
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: people had a vehicle that was less than a year old.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: I think Australia is probably just a bit more consumerist
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: than South Africa. People have a bit more money and
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: so it's more common you can go out and buy
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: the latest and greatest and deck it out with whatever
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: fancy trayback or account canopy that you want to. And
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: in terms of reliability, Australians are quite worried about getting stranded.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: It really is the biggest priority. And for ninety nine
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: percent of them that means get a Toyota, it means
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: get a seventy series and just know that you'll be
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: able to go forever and not get stuck and not
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: die in the outback, which is a realistic possibility if
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: you do get stuck.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would even I would contrast, just maybe to
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: push back a little bit on the land cruiser thing.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Land cruisers are supremely reliable and durable, but I don't
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: find them to always be that capable. So I do
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: find that people get stuck in land cruisers often because
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: they really do have limitations as far as k And
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not being critical of land cruisers because I love
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: them and I've owned many of them. It's just if
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: you were to compare a Rubicon Wrangler capability against a
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: seventy series, the seventy series would still be in the
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: previous province as far as capability goes. Has that been
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: your experience as well? With all the jeeps that you've owned.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that definitely sums it up. And at times in Australia,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: like on the old Telegraph track, it was actually silly
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: to watch the huge wheel lifts and we were all
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: worried about rollovers and people running out winch cable and
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: standing on front bumpers. A land Cruise a seventy series
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: and then when my Gladiator would drive up, I literally
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: just had it in first kyar low range with both
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: diflocks and it never even spun a tire on any obstacle.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: And actually the gathered crowd I would just austral They
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: didn't know what to say. They were like everyone said,
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: jeeps are no good and they because I think Australians
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: don't quite understand or they don't know what happens if
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: you have a really capable fore wheel drive. And the
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: reason is the jeep doesn't have a great payload and
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: jeep doesn't have great support in Australia. So I think
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: from a parts perspective, the land Cruise it does make
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the most sense. From a I want to go really
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: far into the wilderness with enough fuel to do a
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: thousand miles off road, the land Cruiser makes the most sense,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So that's what everyone has, but then they've never really
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: seen what happens if you have a solid axle vehicle
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: with really well built suspension and what it can do and.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Huge tires are so easy to put a big tire
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: on a jeep.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately Australians can't do that the laws. I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: only had threes on my Gladiator. Technically, if you worked
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: really hard at it, you could get as legal, but
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it would be ten thousand dollars or more and a
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: lot of difficulty, so it just wasn't worth it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you feel,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Graham that maybe the defenders a little bit of a
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: cross between the two, especially a diesel defenders that cross
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: between the reliability of a land cruiser and the capability
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: of a jeep. Is that Have you found that to
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: be the case?
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Our Defender is, especially before I missed
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: it up and put the canter on it, super capable
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: of incredible for even though it's only got a center
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: to the flock, has no front of blocks, but it's
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: got the quill springs all around. Yeah. Yeah, because I've
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: got a bad reputation and I've always said that because
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: what do they always say that the road, And I
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: think the thing is that those nine of those being
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: worked on by guys like me going a real mechanical experience.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: But you just love them so much to just keep
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: them going and going forever, so you're going to run.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Into reliability issues. I've joined a couple of tot's just
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: play some time them and they're great machines. So that's
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: pretty much all they are is machines, and the trend
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: is just a different creatures describe it. Yeah, it's a machine.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: It is a high class sewing machine.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: It works well, it's supposed to work.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Everything works, and it just keeps going. But at the
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: end of the day, I probably could turn my camp
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: chair and face the view instead of faces and it's
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: that's just me. Yeah. Again, my land has been very reliable,
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: and I know a lot of people have been driving
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: with defenders if finding to be very unreliable.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: But then there's also a lot of the guys that
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: do a little weird.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Mobs, uh, and they tricked them up and then they
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: pushed as much power them as they can, and then
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: they do all these things massive tizers and they modify
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: the thing and do all this stuff in the back
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: of the yard and then wonder why that kind of fails,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: and then they.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: Blame the brand, and I don't think that's fair.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I would agree with that. Keep them as keep anything
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: you buy as close to stock as the conditions allow. Obviously,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to cry an article, you got to
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: have a whole bunch of modifications to the vehicle, But
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to cross Africa, you can do it
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: in a stock for a drive like the Grenadier was
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: totally stock. Let's get back to this new overland vehicle
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: versus the old overland vehicle, and Dan, I'm going to
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: start with you, So why don't you give us your
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: pitch for why you think the newer overland vehicle is
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a better choice for the overland traveler. I'd love to
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: hear that.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, I feel like it's hard to distill it into
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: an elevator pitch.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I had a great job with your article. You have
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: a great article out there on it, So maybe just
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the high points.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like number one is just lack of problems
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: on the road. Just it'll work for the first one
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: hundred thousand miles without you taking out a tool bag
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and when you're on the road in Guatemala, when you're
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: in Botswana, do you want to be in some mechanic
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: shop dealing with some issue on your vehicle or do
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: you actually just want to be enjoying the trip? And
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: I found this so many times on my travels. I
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: bump into people who they spent a significant portion of
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: their trip trying to deal with vehicle problems and I
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: just never have And so I feel like a higher
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: ratio of my trip has been just enjoyed the trip
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: and less has been messed with the vehicle. So that
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: would be number one. Number two I think a lot
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: of people overlook is safety. Driving around in undeveloped countries
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: is dangerous. People drive recklessly, there are a lot of
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: road hazards. Having a vehicle with modern crumple zones, air bags,
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: traction control abs, I have no doubt it would save
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: my life if I needed it to. And I've met
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: overlanders around the world who haven't gotten off so lucky
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and have had major car crashes and luckily just escaped
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: with their lives. So for me, especially now that I
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: had a little one with me, safety is a big factor.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Creature comforts as well. When you're driving across an entire continent.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: It's pretty nice to have air conditioning. It's pretty nice
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to have modern suspension and a quiet cabin. We met
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: people driving around Australia. While they would drive, I think
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: they would wear headphones and listen to music. They couldn't
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: even talk to their partner sitting next to them because
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the vehicle was too loud. So that trying to do
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: that for six or eight or ten hours a day,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I think is just exhausting and not fun.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Whereas we hands on the relationship.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: That's definitely true. We have like heated letter seats and
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Bluetooth audio and luxury essentially, which maybe the luxury isn't necessary,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: but just the kind of creature comforts that lead to
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: more enjoyment again, and then the trip can go for
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: longer because you don't feel exhausted, and you don't get
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: to that point after a month where you say I
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: am so sick of this, I want to go home.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: After a month, feel like, actually, I'm loving this. I
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: just want to keep going. I hope months will turn
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: into years. So I think that there's a whole host
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: of reasons, but those are probably my top three.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And that I think that you make some good points
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: that probably resonate more with my travels because I tend
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: to be on a much tighter timeline, so I'm usually
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: pretty constrained around a schedule, and I've got maybe I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: traveled eight months total across Africa, whereas people will do
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that for years and years. So probably for me that
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit better predictability around the fact that the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: vehicle's going to operate was a benefit. But then I
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: also think about Ray Hyland's trip across the Silk Road,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: where like the fact that the vehicle was such a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: dumpster fire, it actually made it an incredible journey, like
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the stories that came out about them making rear main
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: seals out of the rim of a hat, the leather
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: of a hat, and the people he interacted with in
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the and I have no doubt that had to have
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: been incredibly exhausting for him and his family at times.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: But there is something about the overcoming what they overcame.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: It's almost unimaginable what they did to take a nineteenth
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: land rover that they basically didn't really prepare for the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: trip on that many miles and basically fixed it along
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the way. I don't know that I want to sign
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: up for that, but there is something incredibly charge about that.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: How do you think about that, Dan.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right, Scott. And there's no doubt those
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: are the stories that Ray tells the most, and those
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: are the most kind of engaging and you really do
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: you get in with the community and you get to
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: meet people that I just drove past all of those
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: roadside mechanics, whereas Ray and his family ended up having
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: dinner with them and like sharing stories, and so there's
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: no doubt having more problems leads to them like a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: deeper experience. And like you said, it depends what you
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: want to sign up for. And like how everyone that
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I think wants to have some trouble, Like it's entertaining
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: to get stuck. You just don't want to be too stuck.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: But if you have a little breakdown where you're like,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, and then in an hour I fixed it
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: and then everything was okay. But if that turns into
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: three month engine rebuild when you're in Honduras, it's probably
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: not fun anymore.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: I find that with the land cruiser owner, I'm stereotyping
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: to a degree that there's basically two types of land
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: cruiser owners. There's the people who only care about the trip.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Car is literally just like another spanner in the process
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: of getting or not a spanner that's a bad choice
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: with the land cruiser, but it's like another piece of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: kit but that you would pack in the suitcase. So
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: these are really these are people that are one hundred
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: percent focused on travel and the experience of travel and
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: seeing cultures and places and go into the incredible museums.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: So tend to be that or that land cruiser owner
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: tends to be the person with a lot of anxiety.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: So I find that land cruiser owners tend to be
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: some of them tend to be very anxious around the
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: idea that their car would break down. They don't know
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: how to fix it, or they're anxious about not having control,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: maybe on the OCD side of the scale. So whereas
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I find with land rover owners, it's one of the
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: things that I really like is that they're usually more
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: free spirited and artistic and open to just the randomness
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of life. And I think a landover gives you that.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I think it gives you that. And Ray and his family.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I think about Ray, Ray is like he does he's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: unphased by whatever is happening in the moment, whether it's
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: literal chaos or he's at the Four Seasons, He's unphased
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: by any of it. And I think that he really
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: he likes the fact that the land Rover introduces chaos
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: into every single day of the trip. What do you
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: think about? What do you guys think about that?
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: I think Right is an exceptional human being.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: I admire is calm. It just he's unflappable. And I
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: think it's because he's planned everything ahead. He knows what
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: he's doing, he knows what to expect, he's going to
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: back up plan he's got, And I think you can
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: do that as a land of God, especially do what
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: we do without that. You got it to know, you're.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: Tuned with machine, you're listening to it, you're feelings for you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: But yeah, you're like tuning this thing the whole time,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: and you're reading it for the whole time. You wake
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: up in the morning, can check all your oils. Essentially,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: you get underneath your top up the box. I cannot
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: talk up much of box in three minutes. Of the
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: perfect system, it's you have to be mechanically very sensitive
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: and you have to have a great sentience of advantage
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: because you never know. And I'm going against what would
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: say about all this land of reliability stuff, but there
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: are situations where you're in love nowhere and you go
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: to figure this out, not to get yourself. Have we
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: move done a bunch of times in the Congo and
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: the Amazon and your name and almost every country through
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: we've had some kind of issue. But for greatat stories,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: you meet great people and you learn a lot about yourself.
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: Those kind of sus And a special thanks to on
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: X for supporting this week's podcast. Are you tired of
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: searching for a camp site only to find it packed
• 21:45
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• 21:53
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• 22:02
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• 22:07
  Speaker 5: and find your own space. Thanks again, on X.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: You guys hear me? Okay, still yeah, all right, So
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: we're all back together. We were working on a little
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: bit of a tech solution and Graham Bell. For those
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: of you watching on YouTube, you can see just how
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: handsome of the fellow he is, and he's got these
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: incredible headphones on that are now completely changing how his
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: voice sounds, which we're grateful for. We can get back
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: into it. I think we were just chatting about the
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: reality that having a vehicle that is a little older,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it invites people to want to approach it, to want
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: to approach you. There's a charm and a draw to
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: a classic vehicle. There's also the great likelihood of technical
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and other mechanical problems that will likely throw you into
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: a culture and throw you into a place, and you're
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: going to meet mechanics of all ilk languages, religions and
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: creed as you cross around the world, so that an
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: older vehicle kind of guarantees that can I add a.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Point to that is that I compare it to driving
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: an old Defender Orlandrover, just an older vehicle that doesn't
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: have all the luxury and the soundproofing and all that.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: It's very similar to traveling with the motorcycle. Is that
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: you're smelling the environment, your windows are open because you
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: don't have ac You're interacting with the people around you,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: and you're driving through a village. They're seeing you, you
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: seeing them. Yeah, there's the noise, there's this fumes, there's
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: all of that, and it's very romantic in a certain way,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: and it definitely helps you to be more exposed to
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: the elements as you're traveling. There's no luxury, so there's
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: no kind of barrier between you and the experience. It's
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: not like you can just switch it off kind of
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: thing and close up with the AC on, put the
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: stereo up and just say I'm not doing this for
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: a minute. I'm just having a nice soft drive. You
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: just don't have that. Yeah, you don't know.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's an excellent point, Graham.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And it is something that I worry that I'm missing
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: out on a bit that sometimes I've made it a
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: bit too easy for myself, and it does feel a
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: little bit like I'm not getting the full experience yet
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: when it's insanely hot, I do put the windows up
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: and turn the AC on, and then I'm not really
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: driving through the Congo anymore. I could just be commuting
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: to work somewhere. Yeah, And so for me, I often
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: wonder about switching to an older vehicle so I can
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: be more raw or more like on the ground.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: But the thing is. I think you have a lot
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: more energy when you've got a bit of luckxhoy. You
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: know those days where you just can't anymore.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And definitely in cons obviously, Yeah, yeah, I think one
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: is really good to do for a while, but maybe
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: you don't want to do either of them forever.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I'm only a couple of years older
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: than you, but I probably look about twenty years older,
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: and I attribute that to land rover ownership.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: The great.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I have on a lot of land Rovers, and I
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: got no hair, so.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I've always wondered Graham. We were just talking about how
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: owning an older vehicle you have to roll with the
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: punchers and just accept the inevitable kind of breakdowns. Do
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: you think before you were a land rover owner or
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: when you first started out, were you relaxed, easy going
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: breakdowns are part of it? Or were you actually a
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: bit high strung and the landrobe taught you how to
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: relax and shaped your personality a bit.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: I think I'm good at acting relaxed, but every time
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: I do mechanical work, I get a dry math. I'm
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: not a mechanical person at all. I grew up a
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: single mom with a sister I knew how to change
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: a tire when I got my first Series vehicle and
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: then proceeded to break down and the worst areas, and
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: often you just learned a self reliance. But no, I've
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: never been actually very relaxed about it. It stresses me out
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: to this day. But that's I've got to just have
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: a plan. I gotta get her ready before I leave.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: I gotta have everything and I know by now. This
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: is the thing where I'm sticking with the vehicle I
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: have is that I know it like the back of
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: my hand. And so does Louisa. She gets this thing
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: going all the time. We had a cooling issue yesterday.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: Just give you an example. We're driving up to what's
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: two three hundred meters and feet that's probably almost ten
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: thousand feet. Yeah, and I've been having cooling issues since
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: the andes, to be honest. And I've got a little
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: black box. It's a little warning, a little it's an
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: engine management system or monitoring system anyway, and it monitors
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: the battery, the oil, and the coolant and its main purpose,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: I found is to monitor the coolant. So my coolant
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: dips below that those senses it gives me a warning
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: and alarm, and then I know I have to deal
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: with it. But I also know there's two kinds of
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: situations where that happens. The one is when the coolant
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: jumps up it's pushed at the top of the hair
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: that the expansion tank because of the extreme pressures. And
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: then the other one is when the pipes expand and
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: the coulant drops below the sense. So then I have
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: what it's called a nanocom, which is an obed two reader,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: and I have that permanently plugged in so I can
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: read the coolant temperature in real time. So in that situation,
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: I carried on driving and then well the pressure the
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: temperature went to one hundred and two, so I stopped immediately.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: And then I had three coolant caps and I took
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: them out, and I was busy dealing with the engine,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: and Louisa was sitting in the passenger seat and she
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: took two of the caps, took them apart, and rebolt
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: one of them and then gave it back to me
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: and said try that. And I'm like, okay, let's do it.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: And it worked. It got us the next thousand kilometers
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: and it's still on there. So yeah, I wasn't having
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: fun at the time, and I wasn't really chilled about
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: it either, but I didn't know that I've got a plan,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: and I know I didn't. I've got a Louisa, so
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: that always helps.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: And you're in it together and you got your home
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: with you. I think that helps a lot too, that
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: you can retreat into the camper, make a te come
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: up with a plan, you can get some rest. I
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: think that the people are trying to get to that hotel,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: they have very or they have very rudimentary camping options,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: or they're in an area that they don't feel safe.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Probably the breakdowns feel a lot more intense in those moments.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think this is coming to the new
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: vehicle argument is that they're fantastic when they're reliable, but
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: when they're not and you are in the middle of
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: nowhere and you have a problem, and you're not an
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: engineer like d knows how it probably knows how to
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: fix that situation and get through it or do whatever
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: it needs to do. I think for a lot of
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: people that's really daunting. When your computer goes into limp
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: mode and the whole vehicle just shuts down and you
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: run out of death or whatever. The case may be,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: that's a problem. That's a big problem. It's not just
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: give your wife the counan caps to rebuild and she
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: gets you back on the road or and I think
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: that's a that's that could be very stressful with the
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: new vehicle. But I guess it depends on where you're
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: traveling as well. Not everyone's Dand and not everyone's Graham
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: and everyone's Scott. You didn't give me a chance to
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: pitch my older vehicle.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: It's your turn now.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: I think the major consideration for me at the time
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: was when I first got the vehicle, I looked at
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: all the different vehicles and some patrol toy at land Cruiser.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: But the Defender one thirty I had an excellent payload
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: three thousand pounds. It's made out of aluminium aluminum sorry,
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: coil springs, disc breaks. TD five engine wasn't my first choice.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: I went to the three hundred TDI, but I couldn't
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: find it. But that vehicle has been the best investment
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: I've ever made in my life, and I'm saving up
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: to buy another one exactly the same, just a one
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: ten five dogs Probably it cost me eight thousand dollars
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: when I bought it. I everything I stripped off in
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: America when I built the camper I sold for ten
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars. The vehicles carried us around the world. Basically,
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: bar Asia has earned me money, essentially has been our home.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: And yeah, literally it's the best investment I've ever made
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: in my life. And I couldn't afford at the time.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: If I had to buy a new vehicle, we probably
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: being able to do the trip at all. That was
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: just a financial reality. If I go and spend fifty
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: thousand on a vehicle, then that's I'm not going traveling.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: But if I spent eight thousand and spent a couple
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: of grand fixing it up and getting it ready, that's
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: it now that the game's on. So I think a
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: lot of the OLVSUS New debate comes down to finances
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: That's a fair argument for sure. Graham and I think
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: that the older vehicle, especially if it's something charming like
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a Defender, will almost always be a net positive financial decisions.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: If you were to take a Defender one ten is
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: probably the best example, But if you were if you
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: bought a Defender one ten twenty years ago and you
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: drove it for twenty years, it's worth more today than
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: when you bought it. If you like Jonathan Hanson's seventy
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Hanson's forty Series that he bought I don't know when,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, and he's driven it for fifty years, and
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: that vehicle is probably worth ten times more than what
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: he paid for it. And he has had the pleasure
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: of driving something that remained cool the entire time. Like
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I think about like one hundred series land Cruisers. They're cool,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: but it'll never be as cool as a forty series
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: land Cruiser. A Grand Cherokee is a great car, but
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: it'll never be as cool as a flat fender Jeep.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: So there is definitely the financial benefit. Not only are
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: they can they be less expensive to purchase, but they
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: tend to hold their value a lot better than a
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: new vehicle, which is going to be subject to pretty
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: rapid depreciation, particularly under the conditions that we tend to
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: drive them.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: And if you look at it, my observance has been
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: that the vast majority of long distance intercontinental overlanders, they
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: tend to go for the older vehicles. There's the reasoning
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: behind that, of course we've spoken about that, but yeah,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: again the defender, like I was saying, it's an incredible investment.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: At the end of the day, I'm going to sell
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: that thing, and who knows, I might get fifty grand
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: for it. So yeah, I just need to give it
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: a better pain job and make it not lest look
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: so DIY or restore it to its original glory. That
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: would be a better option. But yeah, at the end
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: of the day, I've spent the vast majority of my
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: adult life chasing trails instead of chasing the buck. And
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: at the end of all that travel, if I turn
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: around and sell the vehicle and that could become the
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: basis of my pension, that would be pretty amazing.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly valid. And you also look at you
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: guys have read about the guy that had the name
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: of his g wagon was Auto I think, or maybe
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: his name was Auto. That car was brand new when
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: he bought it, and by the time he got done
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: thirty or forty years later, it was a Vinta vehicle.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: But to your point, like he held onto it. So
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: maybe that's part of the wisdom here, is that if
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: you want to minimize the financial impact, find a vehicle
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: that you really care for and that meets your needs
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: and then keep it for as long as possible because
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: you gained familiar already with the history of the vehicle
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: what's been modified. You also don't have to have that
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: appreciation and the taxes and everything else of buying a vehicle.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: So I've been the worst example of that for sure.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Oh great, I think maybe not. Some of them were borrowed,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: so I left it there.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Graham, I think you made an excellent choice with the
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Defender one thirty because in a sense, you've actually in
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: your ownership of it, you've had two different vehicles. Prior
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: to when it was campari, it was a certain layout
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: and the sleeping setup and cooking and all of that,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and then the same vehicle you were able to camporize.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: But it is essentially now a different thing. You have
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: a libing habitat. You have escaped from the elements. Although
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: it is the one vehicle, it's almost so versatile that
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it actually is like two vehicles, which is incredible. I
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: don't think there's many vehicles you can do that with.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I was just thinking the same thing, that we're both
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: your vehicle's new, the base vehicle, but you're also went
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: for a camper option.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I did on my latest one. But I was going
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: to say to Scott's point, saying, get a vehicle that
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you hold on to for a really long time and
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: you love it and you do a lot of traveling
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: in it. The only downside to that is you're stuck
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: with that vehicle. So let's have a rooftop tent and
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: you love it, but then you go to Iceland. A
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: rooftop tent is terrible in Iceland. If that's the vehicle,
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: you can't really change it in a sense, whereas you've
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: been able to do that, which is incredible.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: For me, part of the reason that I constantly swap
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: vehicles is because I feel like I want something different
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: for each continent. I was really happy to live outside
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: in Africa and Australia, but I absolutely did not want
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: to do that in Iceland or the Yukon and Alaska.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: So it's for me, I swap vehicles when I have
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: a different environment, whereas your vehicle is so versatile it
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: can do every environment.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much, pretty much, It's been pretty awesome. But
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: I also see things like a double camp pick up
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: with a four wheel camp or something like that, a
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: quick and easy conversion that gives you a lot of
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: the benefit of what we have with our box camp
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: of boxes. It's again it comes down to I think
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: the finances built that box. I think it cost me
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, probably one hundred and
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars just a joke, but when you start
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: off from the bare materials, I think it was under
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: twenty thousand. And I built that thing and I traveled
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: my kids and my wife across West Africa. I lost
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: a bunch of followers because what the hell have you
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: done to that? The poor defender. You make it look
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: like a FedEx truck. But at the end of the day,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: it kept us moving, It kept us going, and it
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: gave us a little bit of comfort. And that remember
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: we're talking earlier about a little bit of luxury that
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: gives you that energy that when you're slogging through Nigeria
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: and you just feel like you can't take it anymore.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: And then you have a nice, good camp and you
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: know you're locked away in you're nice and piece. Whenever
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: it's got their own space and you're nice and cool,
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: it makes it easier to keep going. But yeah, coming
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: back to the point, there's a bunch of great older
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: vehicles that you can do that kind of conversion with.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: But I see that it's not really that possible what
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: we did with a lot of the newer vehicles. You
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: just can't go chopping a roof for dissecting the whole
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: vehicle and just popping a box on the back. And
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: it's only I think going to get more difficult as
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: a go on that eventually the vehicles that are being
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: made now, Like there are some platforms that are being made.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: There's a company off a featured on Expedition Portal recently
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: does a grenadier platform that's literally ready for a box.
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: There's a company's a couple of companies that are doing
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: that kind of thing. But again you're looking at two
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand euros to get what we get for a
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: lot of less money, and especially what I paid for the.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one thing that I wanted to bring
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: up at some point in the conversation. Is I believe
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: that we have been so fortunate Dan from the mid
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: nineteen nineties until I would say even today, like that
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the new vehicles throughout that span have been exceptional. The
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: options that we have for overland vehicles today, if you
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: can afford them from a three hundred series land Cruiser
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: to a Gladiator to a Grenadier to a Quartermaster to
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: a Dodge Ram with the cummings and lockers and all
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: that other stuff. It feels like with the peak safety
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: performance capability technology we know that like even on a Wrangler,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: like if you don't close your door all the way,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: it shifts back into park. There's these things that are
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: starting to occur that I think, And that's why the
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Grenade is such an interesting situation because I believe, thankfully
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: it's a big middle finger to the rest of the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: manufacturers of Yes, you can build a vehicle that is
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: as simple as you possibly can, within even flirting with
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: some of the limits of regulation. But I worry that
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: ten years from now they'll be so complex. They'll be
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: incredibly capable and incredibly fast and luxurious and everything else.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: But do you worry about what that Jeep might be
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: ten years from now?
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. I was actually just listening to the radio.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Twenty thirty five is the mandate here in Canada for
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: all vehicles to be electric. So they don't win any vehicles,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: not even pickup trucks or heavy duty pickup trucks, to
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: be gas or diesel and electric cars. They're great when
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: they work, but when we're in a remote area and
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: the peuter says, no, I don't know that there's going
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: to be anything any of us can do to make
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: it move. And then at that point, it's a boat
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: anchor and it's not that kind of travel companion and
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: that reliable explorer that you want. And so I do
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people are going to start holding
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: onto vehicles. Maybe. Yeah, from like two thousand until now
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: was maybe the sweet spot a lot of different models.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: Like Graham.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you're on the lookout for a TV five Defender.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: The end of the Defender's life. The old Defender was
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: when it was the best it ever got. Maybe it's
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: the same with jeeves or cruisers, where we'll all look
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: for one where they were modern enough but also still
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: analogue enough to not have all the extra junk that
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily help us when we're in the middle of nowhere.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's going to be an interesting challenge. There's no
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: better daily driver than an EV unless you just want
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: something that makes a lot of noise, But there really
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: isn't that they're the best daily driver I've ever used.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: But when I'm trying to cross a third world country.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: That's the last thing that I want to be driving.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting what options will we have even
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: in twenty thirty five, which is not that far away.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that grammar? Are we just
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: all getting a little older and a little more grumpy
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: about new technology.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I'd embrace new technology and think about the ev is
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: that is very low maintenance. There's a company I think
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: they call it a skate. It's like a platform that's
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: four wheel drive. It's literally you take the body of
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: your yeah, slate, sorry, and you put what's it's slate,
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: But anyway, you take the body of your classic vehicle
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: and you pop up.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: That's different. Yeah cool?
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: And then no fuel. They're not paying for fuel every day,
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. You're charging and I'm soon
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: enough the range, it's the way technology is. Soon you're
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: going to be able to get two thousand miles in
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: a single charge. I remember cell phones in the beginning
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: and I look at them now, so it's a matter
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: of time before the whole game is completely changed by
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: EV's And I've I absolutely love my TV five, but
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: if you tell me I could take a reliable EV
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: kind of platform. Use that and I'm not going to
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: be spending a fortune every day on fuel, and i
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: won't becovered in Greece most of the time. I'm going
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: to look at that as an attractive option as long
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: as it's an affordable option, that's the big one.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. What are your thoughts on that
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: on the evs.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: STAN, Yeah, that is fuel is by far the best
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: expense on these trips, and as Graham pointed out earlier,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: regular people like us, we are money constrained. We didn't
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: plant a money tree and we didn't inherit a whole bunch,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: So it's money is always the limiting factor. So anything
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I can do like my current wrangler actually just got
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: twenty four miles a gallon on our trip around Europe
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: and North Africa, and so for me that was incredible
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: because I'm just spending less money every day. That means
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: the adventure can go for longer. And if an EV
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: can make that even better, then yeah, I would be
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: all for it as well. When will we hit the
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: crossover point of they are reliable enough that we are
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: we do feel confident going into the middle of nowhere
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: or going far away from the diagnostic tech. Who's going
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: to plug in his computer to fix it when it's
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: not happy.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I suppose it's the same argument with the Yeah,
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: but it's the same thing with the new vehicles now anyway,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: they've got the new Defender's got three hundred and eighty
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: five ECUs, right, Yeah, No, And I'm sure it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Was the same. I'm sure it was the same when
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: the automobile first came out. I don't know, but what
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: was the service interval a full engine rebuild on a
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: model T. It was probably only like ten or twenty
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: thousand miles or something, because the tolerances were so terrible.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: Every system that axles, I'm sure the gearbox like they
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: just needed constant. You pretty much had to carry around
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: a lathe and a machine shop if you wanted to
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: go anywhere. But then obviously there was a certain period
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: in time, I don't know when it was the fifties
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: and sixties, the seventies, when machining and technology and metallurgy
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: and all of those things combined to be like, oh,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: we can easily make a car that'll do three hundred
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: thousand miles without any rebuild.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they used to have owner's manuals. Back
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: in the sixties and seventies, they had instructions on how
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: to adjust the vaults and now known as manual as
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: they got instructions not to drink the coolant.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: That's the true. So I wonder if in like about
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: nineteen oh four, there were three guys on a podcast
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and we all had our horses and our buggies, and
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: we're talking about we're talking about this new new.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Finger automobile theme, go Anywhere?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Yea never horse? Yeah, I couldn't cross Australia unless I
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: had my horse two horsepower.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Who needs two horsepower? Just take three horses.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Oh that's great, Dan, We're gonna I'm gonna flip the
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: script on you. So, if you had to pick an
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: old vehicle, what would you pick? How would you set
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: it up? And why would you choose that? You got
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: to pick something at least let's call it twenty five
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: years old, at least conveniently.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: The little jeep that I drove to Argentina, it was
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: a model year two thousand, so it is twenty five
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: years old.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Year.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I do daydream about flying down there and buying it
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: back and then driving it back from Argentina to year.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I love that And if I had to, if I
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: had to get a properly old, it would be hard
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: to go past the defender. I think, as Graham always says,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: there is something about them. They just scream adventure. They
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: just have that. They have a personality they have they
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: are a character unto themselves, whether they're running well or not.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: They are a member of the team. And I think
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: that would be fun to have that in my life.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: That's a great choice. I like that a lot. And
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: then you'd keep it pretty stark.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think you have to keep it starck otherwise
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: you're just inviting more gremlins. But I don't know if
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I would have the courage to take it remote like
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Graham has. Do I want to cross the Congo in
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: a vehicle that isn't necessarily going to keep going. I
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: don't know if I'm that crazy. I kind of I
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: really liked my kind of I'm going to I know
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: I'm going to make it across. I always felt confident
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: in the vehicle.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good always defender. Yeah. I think
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: that's the lesson you learned when you break. When you
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: have inconvenient breakdowns and inconvenient places and you get yourself
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: out of it. It gives you that self confidence as well.
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: Just stop, drop and roll, go through the pots box,
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: figure it out, have a cup of tea, and if
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: that doesn't work, have a beer, and just keep working
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: on it until you get it going again. And I
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: think that gives you. It's the confidence of experience. And
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: I always look at mechanics who travel and I think
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: you lucky bugger to have all of that experience and
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: knowledge that you can just deal with anything. I think
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: that's the ideal occupation to have if you're going to
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: become an overlander in an old vehicle.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: All right, so you've got to do the same thing, Graham.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: So I'm flipping the script on you. If you had
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: to buy any brand new vehicle right off the lot,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: what would you pick?
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: I think the quarter Master with the obviously the gasoline engine,
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: even though the mind is just terrible, I believe, and
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: then probably a what you call it a four wheel
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: camper on there or a new land Cruiser controversial, I know,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: but I've always liked that. I think a seventy series
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: actually like a new like a newest seventy series, something
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: from Australia. I think the true pe Yeah, three door,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: like Andre say, po White has. Yeah, I think that's
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: a very good option as well.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Lots of room in those for sure.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: So you pick the newest of the oldest looking cars.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. Yeah.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So for me, I have been looking at the idea
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: of buying a two door range Over Classic, put a
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: three hundred TDI in it, get it all completely sorted,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: and then go do a long trip in it. A
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: manual transmission, but something very classic, and in my mind,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: it's a very elegant vehicle that captures a lot of
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: kind of style and the era of the early days
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: of vehicle based travel. So I think I'd probably pick
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: late late set range Over Classic two door.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: It's the Discovery one is nice must I'm just bought
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: one in Canada in December and we flew up and
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: drove it back to Mexico and it's a I can't
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: get enough of that vehicle. I love it to death.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: I love it more than he does. But we also
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: crossed the states. We drove from Miami to Maine and
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: across to California, and an ancient ranger Over looking like
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: something out of National Lampoon's Holiday because it had these
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: stupid Safari graphics along the side. Thank God for South
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: African so we could pull it off. But if I
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: didn't have a family of four and all the shit
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: that comes with it, definitely the Ranger Over I think
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: would be up there. It's just such a spacious, stylish vehicle.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: It's got so much character. It's just as a wonderful
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: place to be as in that driving seat.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would want it just to be totally stock
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: but perfectly restored, and then just go enjoy it. Get
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: it all scratched up in bunch of brush someplace interesting
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: in the world. Yeah, take photographs of a beautiful car.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Interesting places in the world, for sure.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: I am sorry to interrupt. Australia. I'm trying to think
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: of his name. I'll think of it. And he restores
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: these old Rangeovers obviously right hand drives, but he does
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: a beautiful I did a profile of him on Expedition
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: Portal Nice Engen or something like that. I think it's Ethopian, Yeah,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Ethiopian by birth. He does a beautiful job. And there
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: is nothing more reliable than a well built Landover.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess Scott, I almost want to take my
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: answer back, and I wanted these vehicles that you're talking about.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Would you be confident to drive it to Argentina or
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: is this more I'm going to have this really cool
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: old thing in just like toodle around town in it
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: and when it breaks down it doesn't matter, it's inconsequential.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really fair point. I would my goal
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: would be to My goal would be to do long
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: trips in it. And I'll explain a little bit of
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: why is that the nature of my job has required
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: me to just constantly be testing something that's new or
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: fairly new, or the constraints of the expedition have required
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: us to do something that's highly specialized to the task,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: like a high lux built by Arctic trucks or whatever.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: There's not another option, there's not another solution for the problem.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: So for me, this would be a chance to really
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: flip my travels on their head. Where I'm driving something
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: that I'm totally emotionally connected to. There's not a single
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: argument that I can make for the car being a
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: better choice. It's literally just an emotional connection to the
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: car that forces me to slow down and forces me
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: to experience all of the calamity that comes with it,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: even or a very long distance. It would be something
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: that I think about, like my trip across the Silk
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Road in the Suzuki Chymney. It's like something that where
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: you're forcing yourself into a very raw and visceral experience.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Yep, that's a really good point. And I think then
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: that just opens you up to that idea of like
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: unlimited time and andy unlimited experiences. Just whatever shall happen,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: and we would just roll with it. And when people
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: say how long is it going to take, you just
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: have to say, love as it takes as.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Long as a taxi.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: I'd love to do that Argentina trup in one of
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: two vehicles, either a Vight Series three short eh short
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: wheel base with a soft top like you wrangler, or
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: a beach buggy.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: That'd be fun. That would be fun, and old Myers
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: makes there.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: You just have fun. Just go hit the dunes, just
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: do offer a trails, just go bang along and rough
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: it the whole way. Just have a great time. And
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people forget about doing that
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: becomes overland, it becomes a little bit too serious and
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: I take my head off to those guys who go
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: out and they have a good time and they just
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: the breakdowns or whatever is just part of the adventure.
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: But they're having fun. And I think that's something enviable
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: now that I don't. You're just starting off, Daniel on
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: a different script. You're just starting off with kids, and
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: I'm now at the end of having the kids traveling,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: and it'll be interesting to have that conversation in twenty
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: years time when you're like, Okay, the kids out of
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: the vehicle. Now we can do this or do that
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: and change the style completely, because that's what Louise and
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: I are looking at is we can change the game
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: now that we don't have to worry about too often
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: reluctant human beings on the travel with us.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no ways, Yeah, it is interesting. I definitely feel
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: myself changing quite a lot. When we were in Tunisia,
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: we got down into the dunes and we had a
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: little Aurora in the back and she was only just
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: a year old, and it just felt so entirely different
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: than when I was in Africa nearly ten years before that,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: when I was just by myself and I was just like,
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: let's go like more adventure. But as soon as we
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: had a Rara on board, it changed my whole thinking
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: and my whole perspective about kind of safety and be
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: careful and you know how obviously just unimaginable it would
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: be to roll the jeep or to really get ourselves
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: in a really sticky situation. Just be like, that is
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: not acceptable in any way. Yeah, whereas I think when
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I was solo, I'll go into that for that.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: Sure, let's go and actually see that your point earlier
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: Dan about the safety features of the modern vehicle. That's
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: the one problem with the old Defender. You're always driving defensively.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: You're all on the lookout. You can't rely on your
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: brakes to work one hundred percent and stop you in time.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: You're going slow, you're watching everything on the road. Whereas
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: a modern vehicle you have airbags and it's been built
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: for safety. And I think that's an important consideration when
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: you're traveling with a family. Yeah, definitely.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I also though on that point, I think it's a
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: real advantage to have an underpowered vehicle because it means
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: you forced to travel at the same speed as the traffic.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I think it's a real mistake to travel faster than
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: the traffic or the road should be traveled. And I
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: think a lot of people when they drive down into
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Mexico or a lot of Europeans get down into Morocco
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: and they have a three hundred horse power whatever that means,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: they can sit on sixty miles an hour on a
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: road where all the locals are only doing forty miles
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: an hour, and that's a recipe for disaster. I think, yeah,
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: it's a funny I think advantage to just have one
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: hundred horse power chugging old diesel or underpowered gas engine,
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: and then when you do, you wind the window down
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: and you just gear down and be like, yeah, I
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: can only hold second gear up this mountain, and that's
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: fine because at the top of the mountain is a
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: broken down truck in my lane that I'm not going
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: to see until I come around the blind corner. So
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I think, in a funny sense, a modern, more powerful
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: vehicle it is not an advantage and it's not something
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: that you want.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in the hands of the wrong driver, it can
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: definitely be a problem. Yeah, But again, on the other hand,
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: is power is safe as a safety to it as well?
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: If you're overtaking a truck and all of a sudden,
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: some idiot just how they always do, just don't look,
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: they just pull into the lane. And you've got power
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: enough that you can gear down and you can get
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: around that truck. The power can definitely add it, but
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: a safety and a lot of modern vehicles have a
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: astonishing horsepar I was looking today. My land Rover at
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: the factory probably had one hundred and thirty six horsepar.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, whereas the Quartermaster has over twice that much. Yeah,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: it is interesting. You definitely can't drive them. You cannot
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: drive a modern vehicle in the developing world at the
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: speeds that you would in the first world. But if
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: you do need to pass, and you don't do it
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: all the time, like if you keep spinning that cylinder on,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: if you keep rushing Roulette, So if you're using the
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: power all the time, you're just inviting disaster. Yeah.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed driving the point. I enjoy driving the Cummins
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: five point nine. Yeah, I mean that vehicle was heavy.
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: We took it down to Guatemala and going down the
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: mountain passes, the brakes were smoking and you couldn't put
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: it in a lower range because the diff would just
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: seize up the front wheels and lock them so you
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: couldn't go around the heap and beans without it bouncing
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: around the corner and stuff. So there were drawbacks that'd
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: rather much rather have the defender in that situation. But
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: when you're cruising on an American and Highway freeway at
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: seventy miles an hour with the AC on and you
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: put your foot down in a moves, that's a great feeling.
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: And that was still that was a two thousand and six.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: It's a good engine. Maybe that's one of my situations now,
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: is because I love this vehicle so much, at what
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: point am I going to put a new engine to it?
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: Do I get a rebuilt TD five that I can
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: change in a day, or do I try and squeeze
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Cummings or something in there?
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: I think yeah, I always think Graham. There's a real
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: dividing line there of you either have a project car
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: that is fun and enjoyable to work on, and it's
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: the engineering challenge of wiell this engine fit and how
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: do I makee it to this gearbox? But in my
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: mind it's nobody ever really takes those around the world
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: because it's an endless project of figuring out all of
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: the quirks and issues, and there's always something that isn't
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: working properly because it was never engineered from the factory
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: versus then I think the other side is you just
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: have a factory proven vehicle. You're TD five with the
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: gearbox and the transfer case and the dips and everything
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: that just came from the factory. Land Rover already did
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: billions of dollars worth of development and testing an R
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: and D, and they know that it works. That's the
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: vehicle you take around the world because it works.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Customized vehicle. You can't find those specialized parts in other countries,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: so you're having to ship stuff in and then maybe
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: it's not exactly the same. And yeah, you're just you're
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: inviting a disaster. I'm not saying that people don't do
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: it people. It's very rare though, that someone tries to
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: do something like that.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think I mind. Yeah, I don't think
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: I've ever met anyone on the trail in the middle
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: of nowhere in South America whatever that's got a Cummins
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: in a Defender or a Lexus murder in a high
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: Lox or whatever. It's just there was a couple that
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: did it. Actually, I think it's a couple that just passed.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: I trying to remember. I think they put a Lexus
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: motor in there and they had toil the highlights. Yeah,
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: but again, that was the kind of guy who I
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: think you were saying, Dan, he was a hands on
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: guy and he was very mechanically in kind. He is
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: the kind of guy that really enjoyed working on the
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: vehicles and doing stuff like that. And that's what I
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: was saying, is that's the perfect overlander is a mechanic.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: All right, We're we're gonna pull this into a kind
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: of a wrap up phase. So Graham, once you give
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: like your top two or three reasons that someone should
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: consider an older vehicle, and then you got to give
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: one reason why someone should consider a brand new one.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: And you've already done that, but let's summarize it for
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: the listener.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: Through two or three reasons to drive with an older vehicle.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: There might not be very reliable, but they are very
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: easy to work on if you know what you're doing.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: They tend to be cheaper, even though some of the
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: classics are getting quite expensive because they're popular, But you
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: can still you don't have to get a Defender or
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: a land Cruiser. You could pick up an old Toyota whatever,
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: high LOCKX.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: Sure, so definitely from a financial point of view, a
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: and older vehicle is more money for travel if you're
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: willing to take. And that brings me to my life.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: By the third point, I suppose would be there's an
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: adventure to them there. Like we were saying earlier, it
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: was like a motorcycle in a lot of ways. The
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: windows open, you're one with the road, you're interacting with
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: the locals. At the end of every day, it's hard work,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: but you feel it. You feel good that you've done something.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: You feel that every bump in the road, and at
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: the end of the day, that gives you that real
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: accomplishment of wealth, of having traveled with a vehicle that
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: you variably learned to love. Yeah. Sure, that's a big
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: part of it as well. I think is that just
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: that you fall in love with these old girls. I
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: kissed my Landrover yesterday. Drove I've did some work on her.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: I'm not even joking, man. I drove her from here
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: in Mexico basically to the Canadian border. I did hundreds
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: of trails with her. I changed the safe cylinder on
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: the clutch, and did an oil change in the camp
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: and drove her all the way back down to Mexico
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: and had a little cooling issue. But with four hundred
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: and forty k's on the club, she was just amazing.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: And I'll make a point of get I get home,
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: I give her a little hugger, give her a kiss,
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: and I said, don't worry about it. I'm going to
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: work on you tomorrow. You know, your little shit to
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: all the sort of done. Anyway, She's part of the
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: family and I could never actually imagine getting rid of her. Okay,
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: reason to get a new vehicle. I'm getting older, and
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: I think some of the creature comforts, especially for Luisa
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: as well. Be able to have a conversation while we're driving,
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: that would be fun. That would be sometimes not so
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: much but ac and maybe some of the safety stuff
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: and a bit of power. Yeah. That said, the one
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: vehicle that I've had my heart set on is the
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: IMV zero Toyota. They call it the Champ or the
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Ranger or whatever, and that's going to be a new vehicle,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: but it's going to be on a Hilux frame with
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: a high lex engine. It's bulletproof. AC is an option
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: wind up Windows radio that you can put a couple
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: of things in it. But it's going to be a
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: brand new vehicle under twenty thousand, and it'll probably last
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: if you take care of it a million miles.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, that's fair, all right, Dan? How about for
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: you what you get for your top three reasons?
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Again, just for the sake of controversy, I'm going to say, actually,
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: a reason to get a newer vehicle is budget and
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: overall cost. I think if you not careful. We all
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: know Ria from roaming reckless. She bought an older Defender,
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: had it shipped over here, and she's too it all
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: of North America in it in a single breakdown. She
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: spent more money than my entire jeep cost me that
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: I drove all the way around Africa and that I
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: still have. So she spent eighteen thousand on a breakdown.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: My jeep was only five years old when I bought it,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: and it only costs eighteen thousand dollars.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: How do you spend eighteen thousand on a breakdown? Did
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: like a whole new hand.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: Yet she had to hire some She had to hire
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: someone probably, Yeah, she had to pay someone else to
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: do it. It was the timing belt slipped, and then
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: there was the toe fees, and then there was the
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: transmission needed rebuilding, and it's snowballed, and she struggled to
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: find a landrover specialist in the US because it was
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: a British import and right hand drive, and I think
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: even a friend here has a right hand drive highlars,
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: sorry a high ase. So it's a four wheel drive
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: diesel van which everyone always coverts. And he had transmission
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: troubles and he spent nine thousand dollars getting the transmission rebuilt,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: which I think, if you're careful, you could buy a
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: vehicle that's only four or five years old for not
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: a lot more than that and never have a transmission problem.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: So I think budget, I think is a tricky one
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: because if you're not careful, if you buy an older vehicle,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: you're going to wind up spending multiple times its value.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: If you have a major problem, then the other reason
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: to buy a newer vehicle, As I said, I think
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: it's safety, and it's just lack of problems on the road.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: It's go and have the adventure and don't spend your
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: days lying under the vehicle you mentioned earlier getting covered
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: in Greece. On all of my adventures around the world,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: I've spent about an hour under my one jeep when
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: it tore a boot on the front drive shaft. And
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: that's it other than oil changes, but I don't think
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: we can oil changes.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: I've spent regularly, that's right.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so months of your life have been spent working
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: on a vehicle. Those same months I spent like eating
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: tacos and surfing and like working on my tan Sorry
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: to rub it in that he's.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Really he's got really tanned abs and sticking out from
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: underneath the car and.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: Are always extremely short because I own a Landrovers.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: It's funny actually, whenever I have little cuts on my knuckles,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: my daughter sees them. She's only one and a half,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: and she says, working on jeep working on deep sweet
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: because she knows that that's how I'd always skin my knuckles.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: So what's the reason you're one one big reason to
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: get an older vehicle.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no doubt. It's about slow down and put
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: yourself in the environments. You have to drive with the
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: windows down, you have to go a maximum of forty
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: five fifty miles an hour. You have to talk to
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: every mechanic along the way. You will get invited into homes.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: You will eat amazing food. I think the trip will
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: be a lot richer because you will, like Graham said,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: it's a bit more like being on a motorbike. You
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: will be in the environment instead of just passing through
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: the environment.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Those are all great insights. I've got two thoughts that
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: I'm going to share. One in favor of the old vehicle,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: when in favor of the new. In favor of the
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: old vehicle, especially if it's a much older vehicle, the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: chance of getting carjacked, the chance of someone trying to
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: steal your vehicle extremely low. So if you're driving a
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: really old series land Rover, there's not a market for
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: that car in any country in the world, other than
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: maybe someone stealing it in London for parts. For the
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: most part, you're just not going to run into They
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: also aren't going to think you have a bunch of money.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: You're going to look more like a local traveler. You're
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: going to be a lot more approachable and a lot
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: more disarming to other people because they see that you're
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: in this rough and tumble space just like they are.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot of advantages to an
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: older vehicle as far as approachability. Like someone trying to
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: carjack me for that old Rangeover Classic, it's an impossibility.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: No one's going to want the car, they can't sell it,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: the parts aren't like, they aren't interested in it. Whereas
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: if I'm driving a new land Cruiser, there's a really
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: good chance that they want it from me, or they
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: want whatever else I have in the car. So I
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: think that's a real advantage to an older vehicle. It's
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: a lot more disarming, a lot more approachable, and a
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: lot less likely somebody wanting to steal it from it.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: And then the one thing that I think is really
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: important to think about with a new vehicle, you see
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: the price tag of a new car, but really the
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: only thing that you're paying for is the depreciation during
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: the time that you own it. So if you start off,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: especially if you think about like a Toyota four Runner,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: for example, the Toyota four Runner is the cheapest car
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: you can buy in the United States, not the prime
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: cost of ownership. So you could own a fur Runner
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: for five years and it may cost you three to
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: four thousand dollars total and depreciation, So it's actually cheaper
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: to own than a Honda fit because the depreciation is
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: so low on the vehicle. New vehicles, and I'm not
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: discounting the fact that new cars are expensive. I'm not
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: trying to say that someone should spend more money than
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: they should. You still have to get financing for it yourself,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: have to make the payment and everything, and you do
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: really since you're really only paying for that depreciation during
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: the time that you're traveling. So if you take a
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Forerunner and you drive it around the world and you
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: come back, it's a good chance it's going to still
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: be worth a lot of money, and then you're really
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: only paying for the difference between what you paid for
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: it and what you sold it for. So new vehicles
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: can actually be as a total cost of ownership for
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: travel a lot less expensive than an older vehicle. That's
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: been my experience because I've had it's just never had
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: any breakdowns with the newer cars, so I'm really only
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: paying for depreciation along the way. So there's an argument
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: for both, and I love both of your takes on
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: this thing. For me, it's such an important reminder that
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: there is a thousand ways to see the world, and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: not a single one of them is right. But the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: more we are informed around the decision, the better. Like
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe that traveler that bought that old land Rover
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: Defender would have been much better with something that was
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: going to be reliable because she was not able to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: do the work on the vehicle herself. Whereas for Graham,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: clearly this is the right vehicle for a thousand reasons.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: It was the best choice you ever made for your
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: travels was to buy that car and go. So it
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: really depends on the person.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, absolutely, I agree with you.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really well, said Scott. And I think it is
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: the reason that the three of us are such good
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: friends is because all of this talk aside, we know
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: the most important thing is actually going, and so it's
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: the focus on the adventure and the going.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: And it's like the.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: Vehicle that you happen to bring along is Ah, that's cool,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: let's go, let's have the adventure.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Oh. I love that point. And that's probably the thing
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: that I noticed most about travel. When you're in your
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: home country and you're going to the overland expos or whatever,
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: everybody wants to talk about the car. When you're actually
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: in Tanzania, pick your company country. Nobody talks about the car.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Nobody could care less what the car is. They know
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: when they want to know where you came from. They
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: want to know did you stop at that little restaurant
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: overlooking the thing? And it's never about the car when
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: you're actually traveling. So we all have to remember that
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: it's certainly not about vehicle. It's all about the experience. Said,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: it is such an honor as always to have you
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: both on the podcast. How Dan, How do people follow
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: your travels? How do they learn more about the incredible
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: adventures you've done? And please share the books that you've
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: written as well.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, Thanks Scott. Across social media, I am
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: The Road Chose Me. So that's Instagram, Facebook and YouTube
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: and so I've documented my vehicles and my travels on YouTube,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: and I've written a couple of books as well, called
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: The Road Chose Me. Volume one was the Pan American
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Highway and Volume two was around Africa. Volume three and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: volume four are in the works and audiobooks are in
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: the works coming soon. The Road Chose Me?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: Oh fantastic? All right, Graham, How do people follow you
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: and your family and your incredible adventures around the world.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: How we call ourselves aha expedition on Facebook and on Instagram.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: I'm Graham dot r dot bell because Luisa was running
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: the Instagram account and in with it. Just too busy
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: working out with Androver. I think I've written how many
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: five books? Now it will be free, which was like
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: Pearl jam ten that was the big one. That's like
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: the worst I've ever written. It's actually the worst book
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: I've written, but it was the best, followed by Lalucha
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: The Fight that was the first book was circumnavigating South America,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: doing East Africa, Southern Africa, and then the whole setting
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: off that was like our the whole the origin story,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: followed by Lucha, which was North America overlanding Europe. It
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: was obviously Europe and Turkey, Mud Malaria, Guns and Miracles,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: which was the titles inspired by Richard What was that
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: book I told you to read? Dan? It was Africa,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: Alted States, Ordinary Miracles.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, recently was a fantastic book.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Richard Darden. So the title was inspired by him.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: And then oh, yeah, there's Traveled the Planet Overland which
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: is basically a hardcover how to do? What do we do?
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: That came out a few years ago. That was a
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: great hit as well, and I've stopped writing books since then,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: so that's that.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Please give these two a follow. You guys are absolutely
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: my heroes, and I look up to both of your
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: travels and I hope to continue to learn from you
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: guys in these conversations and throughout the years, and we
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: thank you all for listening, and we'll talk to you
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: next time.