Latest / King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights / Disruptive Leadership: How Ted Santos Turns Chaos into Business Breakthroughs

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Disruptive Leadership: How Ted Santos Turns Chaos into Business Breakthroughs · King Dems Podcast | Growth Mindset, Leadership, AI and Business Insights

• 0:00
  Overall, when we're speaking about leaders in general, so
• 0:03
  maybe across any type of situation, any type of industry,
• 0:08
  how would you say leaders can reframe chaos as a creative tool
• 0:13
  rather than a threat? Stop reframing.
• 0:15
  It's one of the worst things you can, because what we're talking
• 0:19
  about is a paradigm shift. Running with broken legs?
• 0:22
  That's a paradigm shift. Before we dive back into today's
• 0:24
  conversation, I want to share something important.
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  This episode includes a paper ship with better health, a
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  it, sometimes the best investment you can make is in
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  yourself. Welcome to The Kingdom's
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  podcast, where we share the stories of extraordinary people
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  In your life, ladies and gentlemen, you'll once again
• 2:02
  welcome to the Kingdom's podcast, Gary, the CFO and the
• 2:07
  Medium Dollar Greenprint podcast through Inward Wide Podcast.
• 2:12
  Today I've got a very, very, very important guest cheapo VIP
• 2:19
  welcome fighting out of New Jersey United.
• 2:22
  States of. America Teddy Santos and when
• 2:28
  the action begins, the Co host in the studio is Noeler, the
• 2:35
  world's best sales expert. You also get welcome Teddy, not
• 2:45
  Teddy Pendergrass, but Teddy Santos.
• 2:48
  How are you doing today, Sir? I'm doing alright you, only you
• 2:52
  only forgot one line. Let's get ready to rumble.
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  Let's get ready to rumble. Let's go.
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  Whoa. It is it is really, really
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  amazing having you on the podcast.
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  You're somebody that we appreciate beyond words.
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  And it's, it's great to have the great philosophers of your time,
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  the great minds of your time. It's a privilege.
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  You know, growing up, I, I did read a lot of the ancient
• 3:24
  philosophers and wish I could have conversations with them.
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  But now I'm privileged, right? And now the stars have aligned.
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  Everyone is in blue. Wow.
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  So sit back. You know why we're giving you
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  flowers by you or the leadership disruptor turning peers will to
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  breakthroughs champions Today our guest is a powerhouse in
• 3:50
  leadership transformation. A man who doesn't just talk
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  about break engineers, then Ted Santos is the CEO of Turn Around
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  Investment Partners and the creator of the Disruptive
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  Leadership model. Has spent over 2 decades
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  transforming struggling companies into industry leaders
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  and helping CEOs master cares, build resilience, and create
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  what others call impossible. From Wall Street boardrooms to
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  Innovation labs, Ted has 1 mission to turn chaos into
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  Breakers. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and
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  girls, let's make welcome the leadership disruptor himself at
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  the One Unknown Scientist. Thank you.
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  You'll see hands of my Co host because I'm too pumped for this.
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  I have to pay the gas prices because I'm gas stock.
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  So, Ted, I'm so happy to have you here.
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  It was lovely meeting you the other day and getting a little
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  bit of insight into who you are as a leader and what really
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  makes you an expert in chaos. Basically, it's amazing to hear
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  you're known for our audience who may not know who you are.
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  You're actually known for helping leaders create problems
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  intentionally, and to a lot of people that's a really radical
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  concept. What inspired the birth of the
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  disruptive leadership model that you are in charge of?
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  So first I want to say thank you both.
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  I also enjoyed our conversation a few days ago.
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  So my pleasure to be here and to have this kind of conversation,
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  especially with people who can appreciate counterintuitive ways
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  of seeing the world or counterintuitive mindset.
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  And I would say I learned at a very young age that disruption,
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  breakdowns, problems, chaos could have the effect of pulling
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  extraordinary out of people. So I I learned that at a very
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  young age. That's amazing.
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  Is there maybe when you say you were in that at a really young
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  age, is there maybe a memory or like a job you had or maybe a
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  relationship with a family member that kind of sparked that
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  early on? When I say young, I mean like
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  really young. I was six years old and I saw my
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  mother run with two broken legs. Oh wow.
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  Right. So it was New Year's Eve and she
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  had taken at the time, so I'm the oldest of four children now,
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  but at that time there were only three.
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  And she took us to New Year's Eve party at her mother's house
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  in the neighbouring town. And she comes home, I don't
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  know, I, it's dark, so I'm sleep in the front seat.
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  And normally we would have been in the back seat, but she drove
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  her brother and his wife home and figured she didn't want to
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  wake children up. So she just drives home and it
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  could be 456 in the morning. And I wake up and the tree is
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  wrapped. I'm sorry, the car is wrapped
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  around a tree. And so I'm sitting right next to
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  her in front of the radio. So I'm cut nose broken, blood,
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  knee gashed. And my brother and sister are
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  we're all crying and I look over to my mother and she's gone.
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  So I'm just tall enough to look over the dashboard and I watch
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  her run. I mean, I'd seen my mother run
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  and she ran just like always. And she runs home, my father's
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  home with his cousin. They come out the house in no
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  time, pick us up, take us to the hospital and that's that.
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  But I learned my mother had two broken legs and a broken arm and
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  I saw her run. So that that event changed my
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  life because I was thinking if she can run with two broken legs
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  and she it was about 100 yards from home and I saw it.
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  I thought human beings have something really special in them
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  and we just don't know how to get it.
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  So how do you get that? So at nine years old, I start
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  studying human behaviour. I wanted to understand people.
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  I also wanted to understand women and dating.
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  So I studied a lot about women and biology and, and sexuality
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  and dating and what women liked and didn't liked and, and then I
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  started studying all people and you start studying neuroscience
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  and I'm just, you know, a young guy.
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  I'm not even in college yet and I'm learning all of these
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  things. And I didn't see it as research.
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  It was just me searching for this thing that I'm going to
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  pull out and at 11, I start working out.
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  I wanted to have cut. I wanted to build this body that
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  could do great things. And I'm 5 foot six.
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  I weighed 143 lbs and I was dunking basketballs, which is
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  not normal for someone my height.
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  And I played US football and I played the position of the
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  biggest guy on the field, which was the defensive nose guard.
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  And I was the way I trained as I trained, like I trained to run
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  with broken legs. Mm hmm.
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  So I had that mindset from six. And you know, I'm, I'm
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  researching things where the woman lifts the car off of her
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  child and you, you hear all of these miraculous things and you
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  know that people are doing them. And I witnessed it watching my
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  mother run. So I know there's something
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  there. And I'm, I'm committed, like
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  highly committed to pulling it out in my training is around
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  running with broken legs, being able to do that now and not
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  later. And so that gave me the mindset
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  to train through sports to be a high performer.
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  And it spilled over into other things.
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  And then the second major disruption happened when I was
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  21, and I received a phone call, and that call changed my life
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  forever. And what I was told on that call
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  is both my parents were no longer alive.
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  And so now I'm at 21, my brother's 19, and my two sisters
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  were 12 and 16. I'm taking over the family.
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  And I still have that mindset of running with broken legs.
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  And what I learned about leadership in the face of chaos
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  and disruption and what I saw my brother and sisters be able to
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  do this was just more confirmation that in the face of
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  disruption, chaos, breakdowns, problems, that people have
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  something in them and they can do extraordinary.
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  I saw my sisters do extraordinary things, things
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  that you wouldn't expect a 12 or 16 year old to do and kind of
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  fast forwarding. But when I became a chief
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  operating officer, literally all of those things that I learned
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  from my parents death were transferred and being able to
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  lead other people. How do you coach people up to do
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  things they don't know how to do?
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  And how do you turn a mediocre or a good team into an
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  extraordinary, a really high performing team and so high
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  performing that they don't even need you unless it's like really
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  important, so self-contained. And when you have that, when you
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  understand as a leader how to create those problems first, how
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  to coach your people up so that they can be able to effectively
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  navigate the chaos without falling apart, it allows you as
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  a leader to look at other possibilities that can be
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  disruptive. And your team has the capacity
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  and nimbleness to be able to take on new possibilities that
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  turn into break. So first of all, thank you so
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  much for sharing that about your past, about your story, about
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  the roots of really where this first type of belief system came
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  about to the point where you've learned how to completely
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  transform chaos into leadership. This is such a valuable skill,
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  not just for, you know, this is a skill.
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  And I said this the other day too, that just as individuals,
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  this is something that as individuals, we try so hard to
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  figure out how to pinpoint the chaos in our lives and kind of
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  transmute it into this successful energy or something
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  that actually helps us instead of hurting us.
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  Or something that moves beyond that framework.
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  Or even maybe that mindset that we were in at the time that that
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  chaos came about in our lives. And you're able to actually do
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  that for entire businesses, you're able to completely
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  restructure their framework. And that is just such an
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  impactful skill that I would just say is invaluable 100%
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  overall when we're speaking about leaders in general.
• 13:03
  So maybe across any type of situation, any type of industry,
• 13:08
  how would you say leaders can reframe chaos as a creative tool
• 13:14
  rather than a threat? Stop reframing.
• 13:18
  It's one of the worst things you can, because what we're talking
• 13:22
  about is a paradigm shift running with broken legs.
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  That's a paradigm shift leading, serving as a, you know, in a
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  leadership capacity. When your parents died, there's
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  a Are you all familiar with Malcolm Gladwell?
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  Yeah, the guy that that wrote the book off Liar.
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  Right, outlier tipping point. He has another book, David and
• 13:43
  Goliath. It's it's worth reading when in
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  daviding. OK.
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  And outlier is really good because the sort of punchline is
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  if you practise something for 10,000 hours, you achieve
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  mastery. Yes.
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  So if you think about, you know, me starting to study human
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  behaviour at 9, by the time I was 18, I probably had 10,000
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  hours of studying, research and understanding human behaviour.
• 14:10
  But in his book David and Goliath, he talks about how the
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  premises with David and Goliath, David's disadvantage served as
• 14:20
  an advantage for him in the long run because he wasn't as big as
• 14:24
  David as Goliath. Sorry, he had to develop
• 14:28
  weaponry that would support him to be an opponent that was
• 14:32
  significantly larger. And so his smaller size gave him
• 14:38
  the advantage of intelligence to use a weapon, a slingshot, and
• 14:42
  he defeated Goliath. So in that book, he talks about
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  how losing a parent around the age of 20 is an unfortunate
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  situation that is no different than David's miss for, you know,
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  he said people who lose a parent develop these leadership skills.
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  And one of the things that comes out of it is the loss of a
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  parent creates chaos. So when that person is leading a
• 15:07
  company, they will they will see the chaos in the company as not
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  as extreme as the chaos they dealt with with the parent's
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  death. And I remember one specific day,
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  because this company was growing so fast, it was falling apart.
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  They couldn't sustain it. And I remember standing away
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  from everyone and saying, well, I've seen chaos.
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  I've seen massive chaos when my parents died and I worked
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  through that. And this is not even as extreme
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  as that. And I'll definitely be able to
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  work through this. So it gave me this sort of
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  stable foundation to not lose focus of why I was there to lead
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  a company. So part of that I'm saying you
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  don't want to reframe it. Mm hmm.
• 15:59
  You want to be able to confront it and go through it.
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  You don't want to try and make it something that's more
• 16:06
  digestible or this feels better. Let's call it a challenge or
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  it's a chaos, it's a breakdown, it's a problem.
• 16:14
  And some of those come that you don't see coming, like a
• 16:20
  pandemic or an economic crisis. And if you're more nimble to
• 16:26
  intentionally create chaos and problems, then when something
• 16:31
  comes from the competition, from the economy, from a pandemic or
• 16:35
  some other global event, you are in a better position to be able
• 16:39
  to navigate that than someone who is just, we always did it
• 16:45
  this way and we know how to do it, and we're good.
• 16:48
  And then a disruption comes and it's like what you used to do is
• 16:51
  obsolete now what do you do? So you're you are that you're at
• 16:55
  a disadvantage and you'll have to play catch up with the person
• 16:59
  or the organisation that's much more nimble.
• 17:03
  Absolutely. So reframing, reframing shrinks
• 17:07
  you as a leader. It's because then it becomes
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  something you're already, once you say, have to reframe it.
• 17:14
  You're already talking about avoiding something and there's
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  no power in avoiding anything. It's my work.
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  A lot of it is very much about going head on and dealing with
• 17:24
  things instead of trying to, well, let's, let's figure out a
• 17:27
  positive affirmation to make us all feel better.
• 17:31
  It's it's not about feelings and in a cold thing to say is facts
• 17:36
  are not feelings. I mean, feelings are not facts.
• 17:40
  Sorry, feelings are not facts. They're just feelings that you
• 17:43
  have and they will derail you. I really appreciate what you
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  talked about, you know, the resilience that you build from
• 17:54
  creating chaos intentional. And of course, you spoke about
• 17:59
  the pandemic, right? And it reminds me of what I was
• 18:04
  doing at the time of the pandemic.
• 18:06
  I was working with PwC, that's the world's second largest
• 18:10
  accounting firm. And before the pandemic, we were
• 18:16
  already discussing the possibility of, you know, remote
• 18:19
  working. And I was one of the equivalents
• 18:22
  of, you know, that style of working.
• 18:25
  I love remote working. And there was this team at PwC
• 18:29
  on PCM business continuity management.
• 18:33
  So they create strategies, you know, for the continuity of the
• 18:41
  business even in the face of, you know, what you call an act
• 18:44
  of God, you know, crisis, economical crisis, political
• 18:50
  crisis or whatever crisis, right?
• 18:52
  But these test has to continue. And I remember they were testing
• 18:57
  the possibility of remote working.
• 18:59
  I was one of the people who did the better testing.
• 19:01
  You know, we're working from a hotel accommodation, working
• 19:05
  from home and all, and we tried to test the disruptions, right?
• 19:12
  What happens? There's disruption to the Wi-Fi
• 19:15
  at the office, right? We have the backup, right?
• 19:18
  We also gave the all staff members, I think backup Internet
• 19:24
  for them to use in their homes, right?
• 19:26
  So you don't need the, the pandemic was coming.
• 19:29
  So when the pandemic heats, it was just plod and play.
• 19:33
  We're all just working from home.
• 19:35
  It just felt like then nothing happened.
• 19:37
  And, you know, a lot of the competition were adversely
• 19:40
  affected, you know, by the pandemic.
• 19:45
  I I got promoted in that year, that same year that the pandemic
• 19:51
  happened. And I think I even bought my,
• 19:56
  yeah, I think I bought a Mercedes SUV in that same year.
• 19:59
  You know, it just felt like when there's a casting down for
• 20:02
  others, there's a lifting up floor for me, just like the
• 20:05
  vitamin C's. But The thing is, it comes with
• 20:07
  being prepared for these disruptions, right?
• 20:11
  And I think that is like a classic organisational example
• 20:16
  of what's your body of work strongly stands for.
• 20:22
  Very good story. And I'd also like to distinguish
• 20:25
  something. I I think when most people say
• 20:27
  resilience, they're talking about an event happens and they
• 20:31
  recover. What you just described is not
• 20:34
  resilience. That's preparedness, that's
• 20:36
  training. You all trained for a pandemic.
• 20:40
  You didn't know it, but you trained for it.
• 20:42
  And it's no different than an athlete that trains a guy like
• 20:46
  Michael Jordan trains to have three defenders on him and still
• 20:50
  be able to score. MM Hmm.
• 20:54
  So it's it's it's resilience is recovery.
• 20:57
  It has its value, but my work is really about being able to
• 21:01
  navigate in real time and go through the eye of the storm.
• 21:05
  I think, I think I, I sort of disagree with the definition of,
• 21:10
  you know, the bounce back when it comes to our resilience
• 21:14
  because I, I have the word resilience up here.
• 21:18
  AI overview on Google, right? It says resilience is the
• 21:21
  ability to cope with adversity and to bounce back from
• 21:26
  stressful situations, trauma or misfortune, right.
• 21:29
  It can also refer to a material's capacity to resume
• 21:33
  its original shape after being deformed.
• 21:36
  So in psychological contexts, resilience involves developing
• 21:39
  behaviours, thoughts and actions that help you to adapt to change
• 21:44
  and stress. So I think people look at the
• 21:47
  other half of the word just to bounce back.
• 21:50
  But it is also about, you know, coping and driving through
• 21:54
  adversity. So it's more like you have an
• 21:57
  elastic elasticity basically, right, of a bacteria and it's
• 22:02
  able to withstand pressure. That's my own definition of
• 22:05
  resilience. I hope I'm not being
• 22:08
  misunderstood. No, I I get it and I'm asking
• 22:12
  you to consider. I'm not saying that.
• 22:15
  Oh, OK, OK, OK, yeah. And of course, you know, I, I'm
• 22:18
  trying to define properly what, in what context I'm using
• 22:21
  resilience. So the ability to adapt, you
• 22:24
  know, and drive through adversity, not just about.
• 22:28
  Right, right. So, so when you talk about
• 22:31
  paradigm shifts, when you talk about adaptation, you're talking
• 22:35
  about you have an existing paradigm and you can adapt
• 22:38
  within that paradigm and you can make that paradigm better where
• 22:42
  you can recover, you can do more of it, or you can do something
• 22:46
  different. What you've adapted, that's not
• 22:49
  what I'm talking about. OK, we're we're talking about
• 22:52
  two very different worlds. OK, you're talking about the
• 22:55
  world of improvement and improvements have a place.
• 22:59
  But when you talk about intentionally creating
• 23:02
  breakdowns, that's that's not an.
• 23:04
  So let's kind of walk through the process that you're talking
• 23:10
  about, that you're an expert on that has shaped businesses from,
• 23:17
  you know, the point where they're falling apart to the now
• 23:21
  they can thrive, Now they can thrive.
• 23:23
  Can you walk us through maybe a real life turn around story to
• 23:29
  where we're embracing chaos and it led to the extraordinary
• 23:33
  results? You know, let's talk about the
• 23:35
  breaking point, how we had to embrace chaos, strategic
• 23:39
  disruption, and obviously the results.
• 23:42
  But I think that's going to help a lot too.
• 23:45
  Give us some more insight. Give us a real life example of
• 23:49
  your plan in action. Sure.
• 23:52
  So improvements and that's the paradigm that we're given.
• 23:56
  We're given the paradigm where, OK, we want to make this better.
• 24:01
  If that doesn't work, we'll do it differently.
• 24:03
  And if that doesn't do, we'll just do more of what we've been
• 24:06
  doing and that will make it better.
• 24:07
  So it's it's taking what you know and stacking on that
• 24:12
  something more better or different.
• 24:14
  And so perhaps the best way to start the path of this
• 24:19
  conversation is the first thing for me to engage the two of you
• 24:23
  with a question. My question is, can you give me
• 24:26
  an example of something you both know?
• 24:30
  The alphabet. Great.
• 24:32
  Perfect. No, no, that's that's so
• 24:34
  perfect. It's just really simple,
• 24:36
  elegant. Do you want to add anything to
• 24:40
  that or something you know? I know nothing, I'm just no.
• 24:47
  Whoa. Alphabets are simple, OK, let's
• 24:49
  say numbers. Perfect.
• 24:52
  So you know numbers, you know the alphabet.
• 24:54
  We can comfortably say you both know how to speak English.
• 24:58
  So these are things that you know.
• 25:01
  Now give me an example of something you don't know and you
• 25:05
  know that you don't know it. I know that I don't know how to
• 25:11
  speak fluent German. Perfect, perfect.
• 25:15
  You want to copy that example? I know, I don't know the tribes
• 25:26
  that exist in Costa Rica, but I'd be.
• 25:29
  Perfect. Good.
• 25:31
  Well, and if, if Noella you wanted to learn German, there
• 25:35
  are resources, there are plenty of places you can go hire a a
• 25:40
  teacher. You know you can, you can learn
• 25:43
  German, you can go to Germany. There are many things.
• 25:46
  And if you want to know the tribes in Costa Rica, you can
• 25:50
  look it up on the Internet or you can go to Costa Rica and
• 25:56
  damn, what's the name of that tribe?
• 25:58
  I actually lived in Costa Rica. So there was a guy, I think he
• 26:03
  was trying to marry me off to a woman in one of these tribes
• 26:07
  because her husband died prematurely.
• 26:09
  So he was like, oh, this guy's a really good worker.
• 26:15
  Anyway, so now another example I'm going to ask the two of you
• 26:20
  to give me. This is an important one.
• 26:24
  Mm Hmm. Give me an example of something
• 26:27
  you don't know and you don't even know you don't know it
• 26:32
  nothing of. Course, I don't know that.
• 26:35
  I don't know it, so I don't know it.
• 26:39
  Because that's something that we would only have if we had an
• 26:45
  extended amount of awareness. So now we're at a point where
• 26:50
  we're talking about having no awareness of the subject or
• 26:56
  awareness of the gap or awareness of what would come
• 27:02
  after if we had awareness of either of those.
• 27:06
  Perfect. And that's is the domain of
• 27:09
  breakthroughs. So the domain of improvement
• 27:14
  happens where you don't know it and you know you don't know it.
• 27:18
  So you can go learn German, you can improve your knowledge, you
• 27:21
  can make improvements. The paradigm of breakthroughs,
• 27:26
  it's in the things you don't know, you don't know, and you
• 27:29
  don't even know you don't know it.
• 27:30
  So they are worlds apart. The language of that domain is
• 27:35
  not the same as improvement. So what One of the challenges
• 27:40
  and most breakthrough initiatives fail in
• 27:42
  organisations. Most people do not achieve
• 27:45
  breakthroughs because most people are taking the paradigm
• 27:49
  that we were given about adapting and more better,
• 27:53
  different, and they impose that and try to get to what they
• 27:58
  don't know, they don't know and don't even know they don't know
• 28:00
  it and it won't work. It's like trying to make a horse
• 28:06
  that flies as opposed to creating an entirely new
• 28:10
  paradigm of flying machines. You're both with me.
• 28:13
  You're both with me. I just, that's just a start.
• 28:16
  You you asked me for an example. Yeah, no, I'm definitely with
• 28:20
  you because I kind of want to give an example.
• 28:25
  Paradigm shifting, it's actually a topic for a lot of people who
• 28:29
  even study, not just in business or you know, any type of belief
• 28:34
  shifting or manifestation. And there's different spiritual
• 28:37
  work and things like that where paradigm shifting comes up.
• 28:41
  I had a coach at one point and she when she speaks about
• 28:45
  paradigm shifting, she is kind of saying we are so used to
• 28:50
  focusing on the things in the boat, which I guess would be
• 28:58
  beliefs, our beliefs. And then the actual paradigm is
• 29:01
  the actual boat. But if we're not, there's no way
• 29:06
  for us to be aware of what the boat is just by trying to bring
• 29:12
  more awareness to what's in the boat.
• 29:15
  OK. So it's, yeah, so should the the
• 29:20
  boat is like the context. Like if you had a bowl and then
• 29:23
  you put fruit in it, that's the content.
• 29:25
  But the bowl itself is the context.
• 29:27
  That holds. Content, right.
• 29:30
  So creating and sometimes creating a new context can work.
• 29:34
  And that could be a way that people say they reframed.
• 29:39
  What I'm getting at is there there is a there is a mindset in
• 29:45
  a language that's more analogous to running with broken legs.
• 29:48
  It's just counterintuitive. You don't just go break your
• 29:51
  legs and say I'm going to go run, right.
• 29:54
  Does it make sense? Except there's a a mindset and
• 29:57
  there's a guy named Steven Cotter.
• 29:58
  He's written a book, The Rise of Superman and Stealing Fire.
• 30:03
  And they're talking about the flow state.
• 30:05
  I do the two of you know what the flow state is.
• 30:08
  Yeah. OK, so one of the things that
• 30:11
  they learned is that when people are in the flow state, the
• 30:14
  frontal lobe shuts down. And that's the frontal lobe is
• 30:18
  like the conductor of the orchestra.
• 30:20
  It tells each part of the brain what to do.
• 30:23
  Well, if that shuts down and the rest of your brain is still
• 30:27
  performing and has you run with broken legs or has you do
• 30:30
  something in sports that you would describe as an outer body
• 30:34
  experience and you can't explain how you did it, You just did it.
• 30:39
  That's the the neuroscience that they've been studying and it's
• 30:44
  the frontal lobe that shuts down all you could say you're kind of
• 30:48
  your identity. The you that knows what you can
• 30:51
  and cannot do is no longer functioning in a flow state.
• 30:56
  So you don't know what your limits are.
• 30:58
  You don't know that you can't run with broken legs.
• 31:00
  You don't even consider that. And there are things that you
• 31:06
  know about yourself that you don't even know, that you don't
• 31:10
  know about yourself. There's so much you don't know
• 31:13
  about yourself. And we'll talk about that.
• 31:16
  So I can tell you. I can if you want, I can tell
• 31:21
  you 2 stories. 1 is how I became an accidental chief operating
• 31:25
  officer. That wasn't on purpose.
• 31:27
  It was, it was almost a joke that I did that.
• 31:31
  So I was, I was hired at a transportation logistics company
• 31:36
  as a salesman and in nine months I tripled my income and the
• 31:39
  other salesman were doing very well.
• 31:41
  So the company was now growing so fast that it was bursting at
• 31:45
  the seams. They could not, they couldn't
• 31:47
  manage the growth. And every week the there were
• 31:51
  two owners. One was the president, 1 was the
• 31:54
  CFOCFO was the money guy. And the president met with the
• 31:58
  sales force every week. And every week I was saying,
• 32:02
  hey, Mike, you know, if we take this guy in operations and put
• 32:07
  him here, and if we put this structure in, if we do this
• 32:10
  every week, I was making suggestions or right, what do
• 32:13
  you think if we do this? And one day he said, you know
• 32:15
  what? I'm sick of you telling me how
• 32:17
  to run my company. Do you think you can do a better
• 32:20
  job? And I said yes.
• 32:22
  And he laughed and he said, you know what?
• 32:25
  You know what, I'm going to just, I'm going to give you a
• 32:27
  chance to do that. I'll give you 30 days and then
• 32:30
  30 days if you don't do a better job than me.
• 32:33
  Never want to hear another word of you from you about how to run
• 32:37
  my company. So I said you have to do one
• 32:40
  thing, you have to, no one can go to you with their problems
• 32:44
  and you have to tell everyone I'm in charge and they can't go
• 32:47
  to you, they have to come to me. So he did that and in two weeks
• 32:52
  he said the job is yours, I don't need 30 days.
• 32:57
  And it's it's because I was stabilising.
• 33:02
  So you could see in two weeks that the tumultuous growth and
• 33:07
  sometimes we lost clients that started to calm down.
• 33:11
  Now I had an advantage because before that I was a sales
• 33:15
  trainer and as a sales trainer you do a lot of role-playing and
• 33:20
  we specifically trained people in the psychology of sales in
• 33:25
  dealing with acrimonious prospects.
• 33:27
  So how do you deal with conflict with a prospect and still close
• 33:31
  the deal? So where I started with my
• 33:35
  people and and also I was extracting from my parents
• 33:38
  death. So a lot of what I developed in
• 33:40
  my parents death was became now relevant.
• 33:44
  One of the things that I did was when people came to me, I didn't
• 33:49
  solve their problem the way the president did.
• 33:53
  I would ask them, what would you do if I wasn't here?
• 33:56
  You'd they go to, well, I'd go to Mike.
• 33:58
  Well, you can't do that any longer.
• 33:59
  So what would you do? And so we'd have a short
• 34:02
  conversation and I'd ask more questions and they'd go back and
• 34:06
  solve it themselves. And then they'd come to me and
• 34:08
  say, hey, I already know you're going to ask me this list of
• 34:11
  questions. I've already thought them
• 34:13
  through. And this is where I'm stuck.
• 34:15
  And either I ask another question, but I would engage
• 34:18
  them and they say, huh, I didn't think of that and they're gone.
• 34:21
  Simultaneously, I knew as a salesman that we made promises
• 34:25
  to clients and they were not always delivering on them.
• 34:29
  They were kind of laxed. So I raised the bar in
• 34:32
  accountability. Do you know what we promised
• 34:34
  this client? Do you know, why aren't we
• 34:36
  delivering that? Why aren't we delivering that?
• 34:38
  And they started taking that seriously.
• 34:41
  And instead of me going to them and asking why aren't you taking
• 34:44
  care of this client, they actually would come to me and
• 34:47
  say, I know you're going to ask about this, but I promise it's
• 34:49
  already handled. And then few things happened.
• 34:53
  They didn't come to me with problems because they developed
• 34:55
  their own capacity to solve problems and the promises to
• 34:59
  clients were now being exceeded on a consistent basis.
• 35:03
  And the other thing that was very important was the culture
• 35:08
  was a culture where we when we made a mistake, they would think
• 35:11
  up and they thought it was funny.
• 35:13
  I actually saw it. They would think up a lie to
• 35:16
  tell the client and they would spend all this time, you know
• 35:20
  what I told the client this time, Ha, ha, ha.
• 35:22
  I saw that as a salesman. I said from now on we tell the
• 35:26
  truth, we make a mistake. Whoever made the mistake, you
• 35:28
  call the client and you tell the client the error you made and
• 35:32
  how you are correcting it. And one woman laughed and said,
• 35:35
  and then we'll be out of business.
• 35:37
  So she started role-playing. She said, well, what if the
• 35:41
  client says this? What if this happens and we role
• 35:44
  played and she said, that doesn't sound like it's going to
• 35:47
  work, but you're the boss, I'll do what you said.
• 35:49
  And next week she said, well, it worked.
• 35:51
  That was luck. What if next time this happens?
• 35:55
  So there was a lot of role-playing and I would do it
• 35:58
  in front of everyone. And what it did is the
• 36:01
  role-playing gave them a new way of looking at managing problems
• 36:06
  with clients. And soon they didn't need me
• 36:09
  unless it was really an emergency.
• 36:12
  And when they said the client wants to speak to someone in
• 36:15
  charge, I'm like, no, what's the problem?
• 36:17
  Did you do this? Did you do that and they go
• 36:20
  handle it? Or sometimes you really do have
• 36:24
  to speak to the client and I would do it in front of them so
• 36:27
  that they could see how I handled it.
• 36:29
  And that way now they had a greater capacity for how to
• 36:33
  engage clients. I'm saying all this to say it's
• 36:38
  just saying we're going to be like a Nike commercial and just
• 36:41
  do it is not a great idea for creating breakthroughs.
• 36:44
  You really do have to coach your people up.
• 36:46
  You really have to train them to be able to handle what's
• 36:50
  happening now and what's possible in the future.
• 36:54
  So with that company, they went from coming to me asking for
• 36:58
  problems and then saying, I know you're going to ask these
• 37:01
  questions to hey, two weeks ago had this problem, partly our
• 37:05
  fault, partly the client's fault.
• 37:07
  Here's how I handled it. The client loved how we handled
• 37:10
  it so much that they picked up the phone and called one of
• 37:14
  their clients and sent one of their clients to us.
• 37:17
  Now my clients are selling for us because my operations team is
• 37:22
  like a special forces that can handle just about anything.
• 37:27
  Which now means that myself as a leader and the president are in
• 37:33
  a better position to go create new, new services for the
• 37:37
  clients and not be worried that our people won't be able to
• 37:40
  handle it. In fact, they will embrace it
• 37:43
  and say, you know, bring us more.
• 37:46
  So that transformed, you know, me as an accidental COO,
• 37:51
  Transform the culture, coached people up and, and, and I
• 37:56
  stabilised the company that was growing out of control and, and
• 37:59
  increased the growth rate and that allowed us to go after new
• 38:04
  kinds of clients that drove revenue and allowed us to like
• 38:07
  quadruple in revenue. So that wasn't our normal
• 38:13
  trajectory. We were actually on a course for
• 38:17
  we were going to crash and burn at the rate we were going.
• 38:20
  It was unsustainable, The growth we had, that's a great problem
• 38:24
  to have. It was just unsustainable.
• 38:26
  Amazing, amazing. I would say I'm going to kick it
• 38:32
  over to my Co host, go into the next section for for us, because
• 38:39
  I know that we are, it's about leaning into uncertainty, but
• 38:46
  it's also about paradigm shifting.
• 38:49
  So would you say that your expertise, if the company
• 38:54
  doesn't know what they don't know, that we leverage you
• 38:58
  finding that out or you leverage finding out what they don't know
• 39:02
  that they don't know and then you're training them on that?
• 39:06
  Sure. So part of it is what derails
• 39:10
  you. What are your blind spots?
• 39:13
  And so, you know, I've already mentioned how we have a language
• 39:17
  for adaptability and resilience and all those things.
• 39:21
  And we, we want to make that fit into a paradigm of intentional
• 39:24
  breakthroughs. Mm hmm.
• 39:30
  You in your past is what will get in the way.
• 39:33
  So had a client, guy was ACEO, Ivy League educated, definitely
• 39:39
  high IQ and running and running a great business.
• 39:44
  And it's growing really well. One of his challenges was to
• 39:51
  grow even faster into that next level and get him out of the
• 39:55
  weeds was he was going to have to hire someone who's maybe
• 40:00
  smarter than him or more capable as a leader so that he can step
• 40:06
  back and get stay at the helm of the wheel instead of being
• 40:09
  involved in operations. And what we found is what got in
• 40:13
  the way was an incident that happened when he was five years
• 40:17
  old. He's five years old.
• 40:19
  I think he's a middle child of three.
• 40:23
  And he's the only child in the car and his parents in the front
• 40:27
  seat, He's in the back. And his parents are having an
• 40:30
  argument. And the mother says stop the
• 40:32
  car. And she gets out the car.
• 40:33
  And she's really upset with the husband.
• 40:35
  And he's really angry with his father now.
• 40:38
  And he wants to save his mother. So he opens the door and runs
• 40:43
  out the car and crosses the street.
• 40:45
  And he told me he didn't even look to see if cars.
• 40:48
  He said he could have literally been run over but he didn't.
• 40:51
  So as a 5 year old his interpretation is I was a hero
• 40:57
  and my dad was a bully and I saved my mom from the bully by
• 41:03
  being the hero. What that turned him into as a
• 41:07
  leader was a hero in a bully because he's the guy who felt
• 41:14
  like he had to do everything. And so if he hired someone that
• 41:18
  was smart, he would micromanage them.
• 41:20
  He would technically be a bully to them.
• 41:23
  So he would be reliving this five year old in him.
• 41:27
  So he's aware that that incident happened, but he doesn't
• 41:32
  distinguish how it's running his life as a guy in his 50s.
• 41:39
  And even though he's highly intelligent, Ivy League educated
• 41:43
  and doing a good job, he's stifling the growth of the
• 41:47
  company to its next level. So what it allowed for is him to
• 41:52
  be able to bring on more qualified or higher performing
• 41:58
  people. And they were able to open a
• 42:01
  completely new division because this was a company that was
• 42:04
  manufacturing food, and they had for generations been
• 42:08
  manufacturing food under their own brand.
• 42:10
  They had their own brand. Well, they opened a new
• 42:13
  division. That was the breakthrough that
• 42:15
  they were now in Co manufacturing and making foods
• 42:19
  for other people under a completely different brand.
• 42:22
  It wasn't even their brand. They were just making it for
• 42:25
  someone who went out into the world and sold it.
• 42:28
  And that allowed them to take on that, allowed them to bring on
• 42:35
  about 20% and new revenues of untapped revenues that they
• 42:38
  never would have gotten and brought on the largest client
• 42:41
  they ever had in the company's history, which was about 90 year
• 42:44
  old company at the time. But that was a huge
• 42:47
  breakthrough. And what that breakthrough did
• 42:50
  is it allowed them to make products for others.
• 42:55
  So it created an entirely new R&D that allowed them to make
• 42:58
  things that their current equipment would have never made.
• 43:01
  And it was more profitable per square inch.
• 43:04
  So it and and they had a plant that was lying dormant that they
• 43:08
  didn't know what to do with. They were either going to sell
• 43:11
  it or something. But now in this place was a
• 43:14
  breakthrough in revenue was a breakthrough in products.
• 43:16
  And it also gave them a new name in the marketplace as as
• 43:20
  innovators. What it was was five year old
• 43:25
  incident that was holding him back.
• 43:28
  And most people don't see that. Most people, and I'll tell
• 43:31
  people up front, look, the five year old and you were still
• 43:34
  running your life and they'll say you're kidding.
• 43:36
  You know who I am. But when I take them, when I
• 43:39
  walk them through my, I call it a mindset technology.
• 43:43
  Mm hmm. When you walk them through the
• 43:44
  mindset technology, they start to distinguish and they can see
• 43:48
  how, Oh my God, this has been affecting my entire life and,
• 43:51
  and I just couldn't see it. So part of that, of what happens
• 43:55
  is that 5 year old will derail you when you start dealing with
• 44:00
  chaos, uncertainty, anything that reminds you of, of what
• 44:04
  happened in the past. And being aware of it just isn't
• 44:09
  enough. Because being aware doesn't give
• 44:13
  you the tools to actually go through it and be able to
• 44:15
  navigate and come out on the other side where it's no longer
• 44:19
  running your life. But before you have the tools,
• 44:23
  it's running your life and you're just aware that something
• 44:27
  happened. So awareness is in that paradigm
• 44:30
  of things you don't know and you know you don't know, and you can
• 44:34
  improve it. But in a paradigm of
• 44:38
  breakthroughs, it's possible to actually untrigger your triggers
• 44:43
  and you unlearn them. You reverse engineer and unlearn
• 44:47
  them. So this is no longer resilience.
• 44:50
  It's actually the capacity in real time to be able to
• 44:53
  navigate. You're not adapting, you're
• 44:56
  navigating something. And what derailed you in the
• 45:00
  past is not no longer derailing you.
• 45:02
  You're now in free. It's my value proposition
• 45:06
  ultimately to people is freedom and power.
• 45:08
  That's a lot of park right, but I want to talk about fear
• 45:14
  control and the cost of our burdens this.
• 45:18
  What was the last word? Fear, control and what?
• 45:20
  And the cost of avoidance? Avoidance.
• 45:24
  OK, yes. You talk about people's
• 45:28
  traumatic past haunting them and affecting, influencing their
• 45:37
  current behaviour, attitude, you know, patterns.
• 45:44
  And you reminded me of somebody that I know they lost a loved 1,
• 45:50
  you know, many years ago when we were younger and did not end up
• 45:56
  attending the funeral of that loved 1.
• 45:59
  And it sort of affected them, right?
• 46:03
  And they just thought in your head or discussing travel and
• 46:09
  that was the way to cope with the loss.
• 46:11
  Anytime you know talks about that person, but it brings back
• 46:17
  negative emotions, right? And this person now started
• 46:23
  using avoidance as a means of coping or stressful situations.
• 46:28
  And it has LED you like many delusional attitudes, which you
• 46:36
  know does not make sense. So how do you help such a person
• 46:39
  break free from that kind of? So if you're looking for a
• 46:46
  formula at there's there's no magic formula there's no magic
• 46:50
  wand. But yes, do many people do live
• 46:53
  a life of of avoiding yeah and that that death may have
• 46:58
  reminded them of something that may not be the source of it.
• 47:02
  So with the CEO where five years old, that was the source of what
• 47:07
  derailed him. So we had to get I'm interested
• 47:10
  in getting to the source. So I understand a loved one
• 47:14
  dying, but I would also want to understand if if that was a
• 47:21
  trigger to remind them of something that happened before
• 47:24
  that event. So we'd have to get to the
• 47:26
  source of that. But it's actually a good example
• 47:29
  in another way. So you said that if something
• 47:35
  happens that reminds them of the death of that person, they get
• 47:39
  any other. Thing or even any other thing,
• 47:42
  they just like to avoid, you know, the thought of difficult
• 47:46
  situations and like you cannot keep avoiding difficult
• 47:49
  situations. You know this?
• 47:51
  Yeah, the bull matador. What I'm saying is that when
• 47:56
  people often get upset or have fear, it's usually not what's in
• 48:02
  front of them. It's what it reminds them of and
• 48:05
  they relive the thing. So people are generally not
• 48:09
  upset with you. They're upset they're they're
• 48:12
  upset about their interpretation of you and what you remind them
• 48:16
  of. They may be aware with the head
• 48:19
  they think that that is that response is who they are.
• 48:25
  And they actually may have feelings because they're having
• 48:29
  an entire conversation with themselves about the thing they
• 48:33
  want to avoid. And I'm not going to let that
• 48:35
  happen again. And that conversation tells the
• 48:39
  brain to trigger neurochemicals like cortisone and other things.
• 48:43
  And now they say I feel bad and they're going to say, well, you
• 48:47
  made me feel bad. But it's really what they are
• 48:49
  saying to themselves that's the catalyst for all the
• 48:55
  neurochemicals that are being secreted.
• 48:57
  And so then people are stuck with, well, it doesn't feel
• 49:01
  right. It doesn't resonate.
• 49:02
  And it's like, I'm trying to avoid this, this thing.
• 49:06
  And, and you even ask people about intimate relationships and
• 49:10
  what are you committed to? What would you like in a
• 49:12
  relationship? And they can tell you, well, I
• 49:14
  can tell you everything I don't want.
• 49:16
  And if you think of it this way, if you're in a room, you point
• 49:19
  to any corner and say in that corner is everything you don't
• 49:22
  want. And the person is in that corner
• 49:25
  saying, I'm, I'm never going to let that stuff come out.
• 49:27
  But it's like in the other corner is everything you really
• 49:31
  want. But because you're focused on
• 49:33
  the corner that you don't want, you never actually get to the
• 49:36
  other corner. And then life begins to look
• 49:39
  hard and it looks like you can never have the things that you
• 49:41
  want because you're spending you're, you're spending all of
• 49:45
  your committed time to these things that you don't want.
• 49:49
  And so it becomes like a trap. I agree.
• 49:51
  Yeah, yeah. The mind is a complex tool, but
• 50:00
  it's I see this, you know, the mindset skill set, tool set,
• 50:04
  framework is my feelings with you.
• 50:08
  It's difficult to train with mindset.
• 50:10
  And that's why for me, as a founder, as the Ceoi just love
• 50:15
  to work with people that align with the mindset that I
• 50:21
  appreciate. Well, I don't know if it's
• 50:24
  difficult to to train mindset. I've heard people say that, but
• 50:29
  I don't know where that's written in stone.
• 50:33
  OK, think about this mindset, skill set, tool set, right?
• 50:40
  That is the order to me in my philosophy for collaborating
• 50:45
  with people, right? For bringing people on my team,
• 50:49
  right? Because in the past I've had to
• 50:52
  be very, very heavy for bringing on people that have a high skill
• 50:58
  set or poor mindset, right? And I realised that you can
• 51:05
  force a host to the stream or you can't force it to drink.
• 51:08
  And there are certain mindsets that are good for collaboration
• 51:15
  on certain projects, right? And it's not like certain people
• 51:20
  are not good people, but they don't have the required mindset
• 51:24
  to achieve certain difficult challenges, especially when they
• 51:30
  are not very much interested in it, right?
• 51:32
  You have to be passionate about what you're doing.
• 51:35
  But I'd like for you to speak to that philosophy, right?
• 51:38
  What do you think is easier to train?
• 51:41
  Is it easier to train the skill set or train a person to use a
• 51:44
  tool set or a mindset? Well for me I I have not found a
• 51:49
  lot of training people that are unwilling on mindset.
• 51:55
  OK, CAU querufala conchigueno to Reggie MO Vocepojeentendermi CEO
• 52:01
  now. Combo estas me amigos.
• 52:05
  No, no, I I did not speak to you in Spanish.
• 52:09
  What did you say? I don't know.
• 52:10
  I sounded like Spanish to me. I know it was Portuguese.
• 52:14
  Oh, I said if I forgot. I see.
• 52:18
  Yes, If I I said if I speak to you in another language, can you
• 52:22
  understand me? I dash making dollars.
• 52:26
  Right, exactly. And so it's the same for
• 52:30
  mindset. See, you don't speak Portuguese
• 52:33
  because no one gave you that language.
• 52:36
  You have the language that was given to you.
• 52:38
  And if you speak 5 languages, they still didn't give you
• 52:42
  Portuguese. Mm hmm.
• 52:44
  And if I would have said Ochimprat Napaz, Nakamitza,
• 52:46
  that's Russian for a pleasure to meet you.
• 52:48
  They didn't give you that either.
• 52:50
  But it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you.
• 52:53
  You just have what you were given.
• 52:55
  People have the mindset that they were given.
• 53:00
  And I've lived in the jungle with Mayan Indians.
• 53:03
  I've lived in the jungle with Costa Rica.
• 53:06
  I've, I've been to Greenland and Iceland.
• 53:08
  I, I've been to the Amazon and what I saw in all those places
• 53:14
  and many more in many states in the US, there's one human
• 53:18
  paradigm and everyone's been given the same paradigm.
• 53:22
  If you speak Mandarin, German, English or French or IBO, you
• 53:30
  still are going through the same human experience.
• 53:33
  And there's a language within that.
• 53:35
  And maybe there's a here's a way to express that.
• 53:39
  So I can have four basket 4 basketball players and one guy
• 53:46
  is really good on the playground.
• 53:48
  He plays in high school and he gets a lot of girls and he plays
• 53:52
  well, but he just doesn't make it to the NBA because when he
• 53:57
  plays, he says I'm going to get all the girls and he
• 54:01
  accomplishes that. The next guy says I'm going to
• 54:05
  make it to the NBA. So he trains to make it to the
• 54:08
  NBA, and he does. The next guy says I'm going to
• 54:12
  start in the NBA, and he trains. And this guy starts in the NBA.
• 54:20
  And the fourth guy says I'm going to break every record in
• 54:23
  the NBA. And that's where you get your
• 54:26
  Michael Jordan's and your LeBron James's.
• 54:29
  They're not saying I'm going to make it to the NBA.
• 54:32
  They're not saying I'm going to start.
• 54:34
  And they're not playing to chase the girls.
• 54:37
  They are training to break records.
• 54:40
  That's a mindset that's created, invented.
• 54:43
  It's it's there are lots of examples in the world where
• 54:47
  people invented a future that didn't exist.
• 54:50
  So for Michael Jordan to break records and saying that from
• 54:54
  high school, he's committing to a future that doesn't even
• 54:58
  exist. And so this is where those
• 55:02
  things from the past will say, well, you know, you can't do
• 55:06
  that and remember this or your your parents died and you, you
• 55:11
  for lots of reasons. But none of that mindset is just
• 55:16
  as nimble or malleable as water. So there's no such thing as
• 55:24
  someone who's stuck. And that's why when someone says
• 55:27
  to me transforming corporate culture, transforming mindset is
• 55:32
  difficult, or when people say change is hard, this is what I'm
• 55:36
  going to ask your listeners to hear.
• 55:39
  The only reality that exists is the one that you say exists.
• 55:44
  If you say change is hard, you will be right.
• 55:47
  As long as you think that way, you will go out of your way to
• 55:51
  change is hard. If you say it's hard to change
• 55:54
  corporate culture, you will be right.
• 55:58
  Now, I'm not saying you're going to just get up and go play in
• 56:02
  the NBA and break all records if you didn't train and prepare for
• 56:05
  that. So there is train, there is a
• 56:08
  commitment. If you're really committed to
• 56:10
  accomplishing something, what's the body of work required in
• 56:14
  that paradigm to prepare you to accomplish that?
• 56:17
  There are lots of examples where the facts of life existed
• 56:21
  before. Do you guys know who a guy by
• 56:24
  the name of Roger Bannister is? You should know Eddemola.
• 56:28
  Roger Bannister. Roger Bannister.
• 56:30
  That name rings a bell. So what he's known for.
• 56:35
  Yeah, I don't. Can't Google it.
• 56:36
  No cheating. I don't, I don't know him.
• 56:38
  It rings a bell, but definitely I I'm not a cheater.
• 56:41
  I really can't remember what he's known for, but I know I've
• 56:43
  heard that name before that. I have one.
• 56:46
  He's a no for. British guy.
• 56:48
  He's a British guy who's the first one to run the mile in
• 56:51
  under 4 minutes and before him, and he did that in 1956.
• 56:55
  Before that, the scientific fact was it's humanly impossible to
• 57:00
  run the mile in under 4 minutes. Humanly impossible.
• 57:04
  The world record for the mile is 3 minutes and 43 seconds.
• 57:08
  It's the same mile. So he had to break from all the
• 57:14
  conversations that said it's humanly impossible and train and
• 57:19
  do things that allowed for 359. And when he ran a 359 shortly
• 57:26
  after quite a few other guys ran it.
• 57:28
  But that from 1956 to, I forget when the current record was
• 57:33
  made, 2000 something to go from 4 minutes to 343, that's 17
• 57:40
  seconds. You can't imagine how much
• 57:42
  distance is in 17 seconds in a mile.
• 57:46
  That's huge. And they believed that it was
• 57:49
  humanly impossible. See, as long as they believed it
• 57:53
  was humanly impossible, people trained to run horrible minutes.
• 57:58
  Four O 1. There's a guy, 15 year old boy
• 58:01
  in Australia running under 4 minutes now.
• 58:04
  I'm laughing because I'm I've never been able to ride it in
• 58:07
  less or 4 minutes. No, that's, that's good, that's
• 58:14
  good, that's good. If you can run a mile and for
• 58:18
  anything, even for 459 is still it's that's not competitive, but
• 58:23
  it's you're in shape to run it that fast.
• 58:26
  Yeah. Sure, I ran.
• 58:27
  I used to do 5 minutes plus for, you know, overtime, yeah,
• 58:30
  Started going below 5 minutes, yeah.
• 58:33
  Yeah, yeah. If you train, if you train,
• 58:36
  yeah, you have to train for that.
• 58:38
  That's not you just woke up one day, you're smoking a cigarette
• 58:41
  and got to have the beer on the other hand, and it's like I'm
• 58:43
  going to go run a 4 minute mile. Yeah, yeah, man, hold my beer.
• 58:48
  I got it. Do do you know the interesting
• 58:49
  thing, Noela? Should we tell him?
• 58:52
  Should we tell him? Right?
• 58:54
  She I think we were just randomly speaking earlier today
• 58:57
  and I took up a challenge. I told her I will do 5
• 59:01
  kilometres in about 30 minutes. I actually thought it was a joke
• 59:05
  and I stood up and did it. Yes or no?
• 59:09
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:10
  Yeah. Yeah, it's that that.
• 59:12
  That is the I I love fitness. I love fitness.
• 59:15
  It's it's good to be feet and you know, I believe you're
• 59:18
  physically feet and mentally fit right Goes a long way.
• 59:22
  Right. Absolutely.
• 59:23
  Yeah. I've had CEOs tell me that they
• 59:27
  still work out. These are retired guys.
• 59:29
  They talk about the importance of being physically fit.
• 59:33
  So yeah. So do do you get what I'm
• 59:37
  saying? It's like, as long as you say
• 59:39
  it's hard, as long as you say it can't be done, you'll be right.
• 59:44
  And I'm not saying like it's not like a pipe dream.
• 59:49
  Do do you guys know who Yeah, Robert Goddard is?
• 59:55
  You ever hear that name? Robert Goddard.
• 59:57
  Robert. Goddard.
• 1:00:02
  I did a long time ago, like 100 years ago.
• 1:00:05
  I know my Goddard, No Robert Goddard.
• 1:00:09
  So So in the 1920s, Guy, an aeronautics engineer, said one
• 1:00:15
  day man will fly to the moon. And the New York Times wrote an
• 1:00:19
  article saying criticising him, calling him an idiot and he
• 1:00:23
  didn't have the intelligence of an elementary school child and
• 1:00:26
  blah blah blah. No, the guy's an engineer. 1960
• 1:00:29
  they had to write another article to apologise.
• 1:00:33
  What what he said was one day man will fly to the moon.
• 1:00:37
  It sounded ridiculous and it can't be done.
• 1:00:41
  And so he declared this future that did not exist.
• 1:00:47
  And as a nation, we we grew into it and made it happen.
• 1:00:54
  But we had to train and develop, but we had to develop technology
• 1:00:59
  that allowed for it to happen. So it's not an airy fairy pipe
• 1:01:03
  dream. And this is what people need to
• 1:01:06
  be able to distinguish. So if I told you I'm going to
• 1:01:11
  build a machine to fly to Mars next month, that would be a pipe
• 1:01:15
  dream because there's nothing in my past to support that.
• 1:01:21
  You just. Haven't prepared and trained
• 1:01:22
  myself for that. You better be of somebody.
• 1:01:25
  You reminded me of somebody, OK, when I was back in Nigeria, I
• 1:01:31
  had this right. And I used to tell them I I want
• 1:01:35
  you to get that impression of yourself.
• 1:01:37
  Like I used to try to push them. OK, Try to do this.
• 1:01:40
  Take this course, you know, read this book and you know, one day
• 1:01:44
  the person that's in me, that's it.
• 1:01:49
  Thank you very much for always trying to encourage me, right.
• 1:01:53
  But what if I don't want to be a better virtual myself?
• 1:01:57
  Like stop stressing me like I'm I'm not interested.
• 1:02:01
  I don't want to be better. Like I'm OK where I'm at.
• 1:02:04
  And then, you know, it hit me, hit me hard that you can force
• 1:02:12
  off us to the stream. You can't foresee the drink.
• 1:02:14
  And so me, it made me realise that you cannot help a person
• 1:02:20
  who is not willing to help themselves.
• 1:02:23
  But what would you say about that kind of mindset?
• 1:02:26
  There's a fixed mindset and there's a growth mindset.
• 1:02:29
  That's a really important question.
• 1:02:31
  So there was a company that did do research on people who were
• 1:02:35
  engaged in workshops doing breakthroughs and, and those who
• 1:02:40
  avoided it, those who went through it.
• 1:02:42
  And what they found is that there were quite a few people
• 1:02:47
  who would prefer to not have the breakthrough because they
• 1:02:52
  thought it would say in the past, like, I must have been
• 1:02:56
  really dumb. Like how could I not have known
• 1:03:00
  this in the past? So they'd rather avoid having
• 1:03:04
  that conversation, which would question.
• 1:03:07
  So let's say they walked around and said, I'm really a smart
• 1:03:10
  person and you can't tell me anything.
• 1:03:12
  And then they have a breakthrough.
• 1:03:13
  It's like, Oh my God, I wasn't smart after all.
• 1:03:17
  And and that could leave them saying, even though I had a
• 1:03:20
  breakthrough, maybe I'm still not smart.
• 1:03:22
  So people are left with this conversation in the human
• 1:03:26
  paradigm. Look at it this way.
• 1:03:29
  People really want two things in life.
• 1:03:33
  Well, they want to survive, right?
• 1:03:35
  And one way to survive is to look good or avoid looking bad.
• 1:03:40
  And if I have a breakthrough that makes me look bad because I
• 1:03:43
  was not very bright in the past and maybe I'm not bright now,
• 1:03:47
  it's I'm going to look bad if I have a breakthrough and it and
• 1:03:52
  it's not that the world sees you that way.
• 1:03:54
  It's how you see yourself. Would you say that that what
• 1:03:57
  you're describing right now, mostly the human paradigm, is
• 1:04:02
  why leaders are still reluctant to confront internal
• 1:04:07
  breakthroughs? Or do you think there is maybe
• 1:04:10
  more reason to that? No, that, that's a big one.
• 1:04:15
  So, you know, I'm the CEO, I'm supposed to have the answers.
• 1:04:17
  I'm really smart, I'm well accomplished.
• 1:04:19
  And why would I need a breakthrough?
• 1:04:22
  I'm already at the top of the food chain, so it's my people so
• 1:04:28
  and I've actually seen this like really happen.
• 1:04:30
  I used to do CEO roundtables and I invited current CE OS and
• 1:04:35
  their your revenues had to be between 100 million and a
• 1:04:38
  billion dollars. And then I would invite usually
• 1:04:41
  former CE OS, retired CE OS of Fortune 5 hundreds.
• 1:04:45
  And I've had former CE OS of Chase Bank, Dun and Bradstreet,
• 1:04:48
  Xerox Hires hotel and casinos. I've had chairman of the New
• 1:04:52
  York Stock Exchange. So when you bring those really
• 1:04:55
  heavy hitters to sit down and talk shop about CEO, you get to
• 1:04:59
  talk about really important things.
• 1:05:02
  And I had Aceo, who was still, you know, I had him come in to
• 1:05:07
  talk in the round table and he was still the CEO of a Fortune
• 1:05:11
  500. Said he had the skill of turning
• 1:05:15
  companies around and he had the other skill, which was to drive
• 1:05:18
  revenue. He said most CE OS are one or
• 1:05:20
  the other and he said he had both.
• 1:05:22
  And he was brought into a company that was underperforming
• 1:05:26
  and he got rid of a bunch of people and brought in quite a
• 1:05:29
  few of his own and it still didn't transform the culture.
• 1:05:33
  So then he hired an outside consulting firm and said, fix my
• 1:05:36
  people, they need to be transformed.
• 1:05:39
  And it wasn't working. So company he brought in said,
• 1:05:43
  hey, would you consider you transforming first before we get
• 1:05:48
  the people say, Oh no, no, no, I'm the CEO, I don't need that
• 1:05:52
  man. You have to understand I'm
• 1:05:54
  really accomplished. And they convinced him if you do
• 1:05:59
  it, then that will send us very powerful message to the rest of
• 1:06:05
  the organisation. So he gave in and he said when
• 1:06:08
  he transformed, the rest of the company just went right with
• 1:06:12
  him. And he said it was such a
• 1:06:14
  valuable lesson that whenever he wanted to go in and transform an
• 1:06:19
  organisation, he knew that he had to transform himself first
• 1:06:24
  before he could transform the rest of the company.
• 1:06:26
  So people are often God, they're walking around with a
• 1:06:33
  conversation about how great they are.
• 1:06:38
  And I'm not saying this is all, but sometimes that can hide
• 1:06:44
  things that you don't want others to see about you.
• 1:06:48
  And if you admit to transforming, it may be
• 1:06:53
  admitting to the things that you're hiding from people.
• 1:06:56
  You follow me on that? Yeah.
• 1:06:59
  And, and now you're shooting yourself in the foot because
• 1:07:03
  you're hiding and you, you think there's something wrong.
• 1:07:06
  And, and maybe I'll give you a great example of, of an
• 1:07:08
  entrepreneur, a person who had a really good company.
• 1:07:13
  And one day she said, Ted, why do I always have to be right?
• 1:07:18
  I said, well, maybe when you're about 5 years old, you gave the
• 1:07:21
  wrong answer. She said, Oh my God, yes, yes.
• 1:07:25
  I was five years old in the dentist's office in the waiting
• 1:07:30
  area with my mom. And there were other kids with
• 1:07:32
  their mom. And the dentist came out and he
• 1:07:35
  said, hi, children, who knows what this is?
• 1:07:37
  And I don't know whatever that was, but he said, who knows what
• 1:07:41
  this is? And she said, I know, I know.
• 1:07:44
  And she said, that's Bah, Bah, Bah.
• 1:07:46
  And he said, Nope. And she doesn't even know what
• 1:07:51
  happens after that because all she could think was I was so
• 1:07:56
  stupid. I was so embarrassing.
• 1:07:59
  I gave the wrong answer. And now she's sitting there
• 1:08:03
  feeling bad about herself. And she she made a promise.
• 1:08:08
  I'll never let myself feel that way again.
• 1:08:11
  So now you put her in a situation and she's ready to
• 1:08:15
  fight to be right because she wants to avoid that five year
• 1:08:19
  old incident. And most I want to say all
• 1:08:23
  people have that, that they don't know that it's running
• 1:08:28
  their life. And I'm talking to this woman
• 1:08:30
  and now she's 45, also Ivy League educated.
• 1:08:34
  And can you guess what her occupation was?
• 1:08:39
  A lawyer? Yep, trial lawyer.
• 1:08:45
  And and you know what? If you wanted a lawyer to defend
• 1:08:48
  you, she was going to be right. She was going to fight to the
• 1:08:51
  death for you. She was going to be right.
• 1:08:54
  She went to a top school and and learned everything.
• 1:08:59
  And she comes out to know the law, but known as a president,
• 1:09:04
  CEO of a company leading that way was crushing her people.
• 1:09:08
  It was almost like she was a samurai.
• 1:09:10
  And she just cut everyone's head off.
• 1:09:12
  So so people have this is what gets in a way of creating
• 1:09:18
  breakthroughs. There's this thing that you want
• 1:09:21
  to avoid and it's looking bad. So the way she survived in the
• 1:09:27
  world was to be right. Now, what was interesting, and
• 1:09:31
  it usually has two sides to it. If you put her in a in a
• 1:09:35
  conversation about finance, for example, she knew nothing about
• 1:09:40
  finance and she couldn't fight you to be right.
• 1:09:43
  And so in the moment, that conversation is too much for
• 1:09:47
  her. It's like clockwork.
• 1:09:50
  She would say, my tummy hurts, I don't feel good, I want to go
• 1:09:56
  eat. And she would literally sound
• 1:09:58
  like a 5 year old. This is a 45 year old sharp,
• 1:10:02
  very good attorney who now shrank to the five year old in
• 1:10:05
  the dentist's office because she can't be right about finance.
• 1:10:10
  So it's either fight to the death to to be right or you fake
• 1:10:13
  that I don't feel good and my tummy hurts and I want to go
• 1:10:16
  home and and this is what's running the world.
• 1:10:23
  I have very, very lawyers as friends and you know it.
• 1:10:26
  It was a very, very easy guess. Like many of these guys, people
• 1:10:30
  fight you to the right. And of course, you know, like
• 1:10:33
  have had the opportunity to speak, you know, on a very
• 1:10:36
  personal level with them. I went to university.
• 1:10:39
  That is considered the habit of Nigeria.
• 1:10:42
  So like we had multidisciplinaries, right?
• 1:10:46
  So even though I started economics, I had roommates that
• 1:10:49
  were lawyers and you know, we used to have a lot of
• 1:10:52
  conversations involved like that, right?
• 1:10:54
  And I love something that you said, which actually I reached
• 1:10:58
  to something he said in the session earlier today and I was
• 1:11:03
  smiling, right? Talking about leading by
• 1:11:07
  example, transforming yourself, threats.
• 1:11:09
  I spoke about a partner I had a PwC highly, highly respected
• 1:11:15
  guy, Tony Radile gay. He's been on this podcast with
• 1:11:18
  more and he he taught us something and he has this
• 1:11:24
  quotable quote that has been with me for the I will be with
• 1:11:28
  you for the rest of my life. He says what is important is not
• 1:11:33
  the example of your power. What is important is the power
• 1:11:37
  of the example. So it's important as one is the
• 1:11:40
  by example. Yeah.
• 1:11:47
  So in the current paradigm that we're given, like you're given
• 1:11:53
  English in whatever your language is this this looking
• 1:11:59
  good and avoiding looking bad and surviving by being right and
• 1:12:05
  other things. In that paradigm, when we want
• 1:12:09
  to create a breakthrough, what derails us are all these
• 1:12:13
  conversations that we inherit. So that woman in the dentist's
• 1:12:18
  office never looked embarrassing.
• 1:12:19
  She was not stupid, but her interpretation of what occurred
• 1:12:23
  had her see herself in that way and not never want to experience
• 1:12:27
  that again. Right.
• 1:12:30
  And we, we know these things happen in our lives, but they
• 1:12:34
  become like mines in the minefield, like they blow up and
• 1:12:38
  they, they derail us and we have no way of dismantling them.
• 1:12:42
  So we have an entire language that supports us in this
• 1:12:45
  paradigm and tells us how to deal with these situations.
• 1:12:50
  It's almost like everyone has a radio station playing in their
• 1:12:55
  head that they cannot turn off. And it's telling them that looks
• 1:13:00
  stupid or that was your dad was a bully or you're the hero for
• 1:13:05
  doing that. And so we have all these
• 1:13:07
  conversations and they shape our actions.
• 1:13:10
  They tell us what we can and cannot do and we're left at the
• 1:13:14
  effect of it. And even though we know these
• 1:13:16
  incidences have occurred in our lives, we don't have the tools
• 1:13:21
  to dismantle them and unlearn them.
• 1:13:23
  So we're stuck. And what what you're left with
• 1:13:26
  is a conversation is this is who I am.
• 1:13:28
  This is just the way I am, and it is what it is.
• 1:13:32
  And So what I'm asserting that nothing is what it is.
• 1:13:36
  There's an interpretation. And there's a radio station that
• 1:13:39
  plays that tells you who you are, what you can and cannot do.
• 1:13:44
  And then it says, go create a breakthrough.
• 1:13:47
  And as soon as a problem shows up that's unfamiliar to you,
• 1:13:52
  it's easy to say, well, this doesn't resonate with me.
• 1:13:55
  I'm not cut out for this. I'm not meant to be a leader.
• 1:13:58
  There are all kinds of things that that people come up with.
• 1:14:01
  It's like, see, here we go again.
• 1:14:03
  This is like being in a dentist's office.
• 1:14:05
  I don't know what I'm doing. And so it becomes very difficult
• 1:14:09
  to break out to have a paradigm shift when when the rules of the
• 1:14:14
  paradigm you're in and keeps you in the paradigm.
• 1:14:19
  And it from the examples that you've been sharing, you've
• 1:14:24
  shared a few of them now, it sounds like sometimes the
• 1:14:28
  paradigm is created based off of either trying to stay away from
• 1:14:36
  a certain emotion or maybe even move towards a certain emotion
• 1:14:40
  depending on the paradigm, you know, depending on the person.
• 1:14:44
  So would you say that or how would you say that emotional
• 1:14:50
  intelligence overall? Because I guess it seems like
• 1:14:56
  the root of it has to do with emotions and how we're feeling.
• 1:15:00
  And so we're running our whole lives either trying to avoid a
• 1:15:03
  feeling we felt as a very young child or trying to find more
• 1:15:07
  things that make us feel that way, depending on what happened.
• 1:15:10
  How would you say emotional intelligence intersects with the
• 1:15:16
  work you do as or with disruptive strategy?
• 1:15:20
  So when we're moving towards going into the chaos, we said,
• 1:15:23
  OK, we're not going to operate in paradigms anymore.
• 1:15:28
  How do we use emotional intelligence to navigate that?
• 1:15:34
  I think you will not like my answer.
• 1:15:37
  That's OK. So the the quick and dirty
• 1:15:43
  answer to your question is it's irrelevant.
• 1:15:46
  OK. And I guess my next question is
• 1:15:51
  why, like how or why or how, like a why?
• 1:15:53
  Or why does emotional intelligence or the connection
• 1:15:59
  with our emotions not matter at all when we're moving through
• 1:16:04
  it, or when? You're go ahead or when?
• 1:16:10
  When we are, I would say, I guess all I'm trying to say is
• 1:16:17
  release from our old emotions or our old emotional ties in order
• 1:16:21
  to move through chaos and build this empowerment that we have to
• 1:16:26
  move through things we've never been through before.
• 1:16:30
  Right. So what you're still doing is
• 1:16:33
  you're using the current paradigm to help you get into a
• 1:16:37
  new paradigm. OK.
• 1:16:39
  That's that's like stacking more of what you already know and no
• 1:16:43
  one expecting it to be to get you into the things you don't
• 1:16:46
  know you don't know. I think I'd like to drop
• 1:16:50
  something from the scientific perspective, you know, using
• 1:16:54
  neurology, right, Neuroscience. You spoke about how the frontal
• 1:16:59
  lobe, you know, which is actually responsible for judge
• 1:17:03
  pad, you know, in the brain and you have a prefrontal cortex,
• 1:17:08
  for example, right? And you know, all of the parts
• 1:17:11
  of the front of the lobe are responsible for cognitive, you
• 1:17:14
  know, behaviour and judgement and decision making.
• 1:17:19
  So in these paradigm shifts, we tend to use the subconscious
• 1:17:26
  mindset, right? The subconscious mind is what is
• 1:17:29
  at least activated. And you know, you, you sort of
• 1:17:32
  have like a shutdown of the frontal lobe, right?
• 1:17:35
  So if you're still using the frontal lobe, you or use, you're
• 1:17:39
  transitioning from what you know to try to, you know, know what
• 1:17:43
  you don't know or something, right.
• 1:17:44
  I, I think that's just what I will drop to the table in order
• 1:17:48
  to sweeten this conversation up. You are the expert, you are the
• 1:17:51
  pro. I'm the Joe.
• 1:17:52
  I'm just, you know, putting my thoughts out there.
• 1:17:56
  If you notice, you haven't heard me use the word subconscious
• 1:17:59
  once, or the word ego or consciousness not once.
• 1:18:04
  That's still the old paradigm. And you're attempting to use all
• 1:18:07
  the knowledge and the old paradigm to make a quantum leap,
• 1:18:10
  to make a greater breakthrough, and it just doesn't work that
• 1:18:15
  way. Those are things that you know.
• 1:18:17
  You're attempting to use what you know.
• 1:18:19
  Our education system is not good at getting people into the
• 1:18:24
  domain of things you don't know you don't know.
• 1:18:26
  We're also not good at helping people distinguish between
• 1:18:30
  thinking and having thoughts. Most people think it's a matter
• 1:18:34
  of semantics. They are the same thing, and we
• 1:18:36
  can come back to that. But let's deal with Noella's
• 1:18:39
  question. So what's the source of emotion?
• 1:18:42
  All thoughts are based on beliefs, or our feelings are
• 1:18:45
  based on our thoughts, which are based on our internal beliefs.
• 1:18:49
  So can you have a belief without a conversation?
• 1:18:52
  Yes. OK, give me an example of a
• 1:18:56
  belief that is not a conversation.
• 1:18:58
  So if you, if I believe that I am alive or I believe that I am
• 1:19:06
  clean or like I believe my body is clean or something like that,
• 1:19:10
  or you can have a belief about yourself or the world around
• 1:19:16
  you, I guess based off of your own perception.
• 1:19:19
  So perceptional beliefs. So if you say I am clean or I am
• 1:19:25
  alive, is that a conversation? So I think in this context.
• 1:19:28
  Is. I don't believe so.
• 1:19:31
  So if you say a sentence, you're saying so are we having a
• 1:19:36
  conversation? Yes.
• 1:19:41
  And is the conversation the result of words being put in a
• 1:19:46
  certain order and we call it a sentence?
• 1:19:49
  Yes. OK, so how do you have a belief
• 1:19:54
  without a conversation? So I'm asking here conversation
• 1:19:58
  with oneself, is that also? In the equation or you're
• 1:20:03
  talking about conversation with outer beings.
• 1:20:08
  Well, if you say I'm clean to yourself, the words never came
• 1:20:12
  out of your mouth. What?
• 1:20:12
  You just had a conversation with yourself, correct?
• 1:20:15
  Yes. OK, so that's why, that's why
• 1:20:18
  I'm. Observation.
• 1:20:19
  You know, distinguishing, Yeah. No, I didn't.
• 1:20:22
  I didn't say self observation, I said a conversation.
• 1:20:26
  OK. Your belief?
• 1:20:28
  A belief that I am clean, I am alive.
• 1:20:30
  Those are all conversations you can have with yourself or you
• 1:20:33
  can have with someone else you have with anyone, but they're
• 1:20:38
  they're conversations. Those are, you could say another
• 1:20:42
  word is those are thoughts that you have, right?
• 1:20:44
  But to have a thought, you're having thoughts in a in the
• 1:20:47
  context of a conversation. OK.
• 1:20:50
  Correct. Yes.
• 1:20:52
  Good. So when I asked what's the
• 1:20:54
  source of emotion, you said beliefs, right?
• 1:20:57
  And and I'm, I want to get it down to what's actually there.
• 1:21:04
  And the belief is a conversation you have about something
• 1:21:08
  yourself, right, the world. And so if you have a
• 1:21:12
  conversation and and it's really great that you said it because
• 1:21:16
  that's that's where it is. If you have a conversation with
• 1:21:19
  yourself that says I am clean, there may be certain
• 1:21:23
  neurochemicals, your body secrets.
• 1:21:26
  If you have a conversation with yourself that says, like the
• 1:21:30
  lawyer in the dentist's office that I am dumb, I'm stupid, it
• 1:21:33
  you're probably going to secrete cortisol and you're going to
• 1:21:37
  have this experience, this feeling of stress, you can get
• 1:21:40
  that right. So if instead of her saying in
• 1:21:46
  the dentist's office that I'm embarrassing, I was stupid and
• 1:21:51
  I'll never let that happen again.
• 1:21:53
  If she so that those conversations told the brain,
• 1:22:00
  this is not good, something you want to avoid and this is
• 1:22:04
  stressful and let's secrete cortisol.
• 1:22:07
  But if instead she would have said, Oh my God, this is such a
• 1:22:10
  great opportunity. And I'm not saying it in
• 1:22:13
  positive thinking, but if you said wow, I just learned
• 1:22:15
  something new today, would she have secreted cortisol?
• 1:22:20
  Not necessarily. Probably not if 'cause she's not
• 1:22:25
  giving. So if she's the body, that
• 1:22:26
  instruction. Exactly.
• 1:22:29
  She's not giving her brain the instruction and her brain will
• 1:22:33
  then say tell the body what to secrete.
• 1:22:36
  Mm hmm. If the conversation was what
• 1:22:42
  actually occurred, she secrets cortisol.
• 1:22:45
  If she said, wow, this was such a great learning opportunity,
• 1:22:48
  perhaps she could have secreted dopamine and it would have felt
• 1:22:51
  great that I just learned something new.
• 1:22:54
  Hey, mommy, look, I just learned something new.
• 1:22:56
  You know what that is? And so instead of me wanting to
• 1:23:01
  deal with the feeling, and I know the source is the
• 1:23:04
  conversation you have, and then we can go back and reverse
• 1:23:08
  engineer where the the sort of genesis of that conversation and
• 1:23:14
  then see that what actually happened is very, very distinct
• 1:23:21
  from the story you made your interpretation of what happened.
• 1:23:25
  So what happened is you're in the dentist office in the
• 1:23:29
  waiting area with your mom. Other children are there with
• 1:23:31
  their mom. The dentist comes out, he opens
• 1:23:34
  the door and says, children, do you know what this is?
• 1:23:36
  I said, oh, oh, I know. And I said X and he said no,
• 1:23:41
  that's what happened. At no point did anything
• 1:23:46
  embarrassing stupid. It never ever happened.
• 1:23:50
  That is your interpretation. That's a whole story and
• 1:23:53
  sometimes from some people write an entire novel about what they
• 1:23:58
  think happened and how they want to avoid it.
• 1:24:00
  That the conversation in that story is what's secreting the
• 1:24:07
  biochemicals. So if we can like, confront that
• 1:24:13
  and see the story you made and then have it as a distinction,
• 1:24:17
  this is what actually happened. This is the story I made-up.
• 1:24:20
  And now I can distinguish myself as a human being from the story
• 1:24:24
  and what happened. I'm no longer stuck with the
• 1:24:28
  story running my life. And I'm going to say whether
• 1:24:33
  it's marriage, whether it's people avoiding breakthrough
• 1:24:36
  initiatives, whether it's leaders avoiding transformation,
• 1:24:40
  it's the story that people are avoiding.
• 1:24:44
  They're not. And they have no way of dealing
• 1:24:47
  with it. They are aware that the event
• 1:24:49
  occurred, but they have no distinctions for being able to
• 1:24:55
  reverse engineer and be able to dismantle it and no longer be
• 1:24:59
  stuck. So once you can distinguish the
• 1:25:02
  story, you now have something that you may have never had in
• 1:25:06
  your life is a choice. Do I want to continue to live
• 1:25:10
  with the story or am I going to live with what actually
• 1:25:14
  happened? And you'll soon start to see how
• 1:25:17
  that story has shaped other things in your life.
• 1:25:21
  And it was kind of a a trap. So it's not the emotion, it's
• 1:25:25
  the actual conversation that you made-up that became the catalyst
• 1:25:31
  for the emotion. So if I only deal with the
• 1:25:33
  emotion, I'm dealing with a symptom.
• 1:25:37
  And so maybe I have to wait. People talk about how do you
• 1:25:40
  hack your brain or have to make positive conversations to feel
• 1:25:44
  good, to kind of cover up the story so that the story doesn't
• 1:25:48
  bother me. But if I can actually confront
• 1:25:51
  it and deal with it, the story begins to actually lose its
• 1:25:56
  power. And now, and I have the power to
• 1:25:59
  act. Yeah.
• 1:26:00
  Absolutely, Absolutely. So at no point did I talk about
• 1:26:04
  emotional intelligence. I know it sounds harsh to say
• 1:26:07
  it's irrelevant, but I really want to get to the source of it
• 1:26:10
  because my commitment is that people are free from the past
• 1:26:15
  and they have the power to move forward.
• 1:26:17
  And so if you don't deal with that, then you have to be
• 1:26:22
  resilient. But if you can deal with that,
• 1:26:25
  then you can go through it. And it's not this monkey on your
• 1:26:28
  back that wants to derail you. You can go through.
• 1:26:32
  Here's the punchline. Chaos is not chaos.
• 1:26:37
  Mm hmm. It's something occurring.
• 1:26:41
  It's something happening. What you say about what's
• 1:26:46
  happening can be the story that derails you.
• 1:26:51
  So what we are talking about now is self mastery.
• 1:26:57
  We're not talking about creating a superhuman being because
• 1:27:00
  things happen in life, right? I mean, I lost my parents,
• 1:27:04
  right? People have lost jobs.
• 1:27:06
  They've people have had all kinds of situations they don't
• 1:27:09
  want to be in. So it's not saying we're
• 1:27:12
  ignoring the things that happened, but it's given you
• 1:27:16
  power in your own life over about what happened so that when
• 1:27:23
  something happens that reminds you of it, you're not stuck with
• 1:27:27
  the story derailing you. And so now you have this level
• 1:27:32
  of mastery that allows you to go on what people typically call
• 1:27:36
  chaos. And you can see like this
• 1:27:40
  opening for a set of actions that will support you to get
• 1:27:45
  where you want. It's like for the average
• 1:27:47
  person, if you want to play baseball and that ball's coming
• 1:27:50
  at you 100 miles an hour, it's just like what just happened.
• 1:27:53
  It just like it just kind of looks chaotic.
• 1:27:56
  You don't know what to do with the ball coming that fast.
• 1:27:58
  But a guy who's trained for that, he has distinctions for
• 1:28:03
  that ball and he can see the threads and he knows which way
• 1:28:08
  the threads are turning and he knows what kind of pitch it is.
• 1:28:11
  And there are guys who see the ball coming and before it even
• 1:28:15
  gets to them, they're saying that ball has home run written
• 1:28:19
  all over it. That's mine.
• 1:28:22
  And that's so it's creating that kind of mindset.
• 1:28:26
  Not a pipe dream, not airy fairy, just do it.
• 1:28:29
  There is a training, there's development.
• 1:28:31
  It's, it's all of that, but it's actually being able to see
• 1:28:35
  openings for actions where other people see their story that
• 1:28:40
  derails them and they they haven't been able to confront,
• 1:28:44
  dismantle and unlearn the story. So we finally got to the punch
• 1:28:50
  line of chaos. Absolutely.
• 1:28:53
  Why? It's not really chaos.
• 1:28:55
  Yes, yes, yes. The goal of the goal is not the
• 1:29:01
  goal itself by the person you become in the process of
• 1:29:05
  achieving the goal. Really good yeah the journey is
• 1:29:10
  can be more valuable than the final destination.
• 1:29:13
  So chaos is never chaos. It's something that's occurring,
• 1:29:17
  something happening like a 2 year old wanting to tie their
• 1:29:21
  shoes. It could look chaotic, but for a
• 1:29:23
  10 year old, it's no big deal. And if you're 20 and you're
• 1:29:28
  having fits over your shoe string coming loose, people
• 1:29:31
  start to have questions. You're 20 man, and you're,
• 1:29:34
  you're freaking out over your shoe having to tie your shoe
• 1:29:37
  string. My shoe string always go.
• 1:29:39
  I can't tie my shoe strings. That's why I need Velcro.
• 1:29:45
  I need a block off. Job to say that and we'll join
• 1:29:50
  back soon. Wow.
• 1:29:52
  OK. It's just so deep.
• 1:29:54
  It's as deep and, you know, I appreciate your, would I say
• 1:30:00
  unconventional philosophy. It's difficult for people to
• 1:30:04
  understand the unconventional, right, or to appreciate the
• 1:30:08
  unconventional. If you don't understand it, how
• 1:30:10
  can you even appreciate it, right?
• 1:30:12
  And. How?
• 1:30:16
  Yeah. If you don't understand me, that
• 1:30:20
  you stand under me. You know, like lately in my
• 1:30:23
  life, I have decided to ignore like a lot of people and not
• 1:30:32
  give, you know, people too much attention.
• 1:30:36
  Why? Because I discovered that there
• 1:30:40
  are a lot of low IQ individuals. And when I was a teenager, I, I
• 1:30:45
  took the IQ test and I was a gifted individual.
• 1:30:50
  Albert Einstein 446. I am 130 something that is as a
• 1:30:55
  teenager. I don't even know what I am
• 1:30:56
  right now. I think I need to take the test
• 1:30:58
  again, right? So I guess I should probably be
• 1:31:03
  in the warm 40s or 80s. I don't know.
• 1:31:05
  But I know I have a very high IQ.
• 1:31:07
  But one thing I've noticed over time is whenever I am speaking
• 1:31:11
  to low IQ individuals, there's always a very serious mismatch
• 1:31:17
  and they can't understand what I'm saying.
• 1:31:21
  I don't understand the the logic behind what they're trying to,
• 1:31:26
  you know, argue about. Because you know, in philosophy
• 1:31:30
  there's something called logic, right argumentation and critical
• 1:31:33
  news, then right. For you to compose a solid
• 1:31:37
  argument, you need to have a string of logical premises
• 1:31:42
  before arriving at a logical conclusion.
• 1:31:45
  If the premises are flawed, then you have a flawed argument.
• 1:31:50
  But people, a lot of people right that are low I key
• 1:31:54
  individuals string together illogical premises to miss your
• 1:31:59
  conclusion. And then he's be confused.
• 1:32:01
  I'm like, OK, I give up. If they say anything, I I'll
• 1:32:04
  talk. OK, no problem.
• 1:32:06
  I think so. Here's here's here's here's a
• 1:32:10
  here's a challenge with that. Imagine we're back nine, 2100
• 1:32:13
  years ago. It's 1925, and we meet a guy
• 1:32:17
  named Robert Goddard who says we're gonna fly, man, to the
• 1:32:20
  moon. And it's like, well, just 20
• 1:32:21
  years ago, we just started flying, and now you're saying
• 1:32:24
  we're going to fly to the moon. And so that would sound
• 1:32:28
  illogical, wouldn't it? It would be like, how did you
• 1:32:30
  get there? And do either of you know that
• 1:32:34
  cars built in the early 1900s had a top speed of 40 miles an
• 1:32:38
  hour? Did you know that?
• 1:32:39
  Yes, I did, yeah. Did you?
• 1:32:42
  Because either. Why?
• 1:32:44
  In the UK that that's the for a lot of roads.
• 1:32:48
  Do you know why those cars were built with a top speed of 40
• 1:32:52
  miles an hour? I guess.
• 1:32:54
  No, I do. Reasons for safety, OK.
• 1:32:59
  Yeah, it has to be safety reasons, yeah.
• 1:33:01
  OK, so Noella, you're going to appreciate this.
• 1:33:04
  What's the fastest you've ever driven a car, Noella?
• 1:33:07
  Personally, maybe 1. 120, yeah. I was going to say fastest one
• 1:33:13
  10120 don't. Don't ask me, I have a speed
• 1:33:16
  demo. Don't ask, don't ask me.
• 1:33:22
  I've done 200 before man. Oh, wow.
• 1:33:25
  That's awesome. Yeah, so.
• 1:33:28
  So, Noella, in early nights, you would have been endangering your
• 1:33:32
  life. They believed that if a woman
• 1:33:36
  travelled in an automobile more than 40 miles an hour, her
• 1:33:39
  uterus would explode. That's very interesting and.
• 1:33:48
  And it was a scientific fact. And science is ever evolving.
• 1:33:52
  Science is ever evolving for sure.
• 1:33:55
  Can you imagine that? The person who disrupted that
• 1:33:58
  and said, I'm going to make a car that goes 50 mile, 50 miles
• 1:34:02
  an hour. Imagine they're like, you're
• 1:34:04
  crazy. You can't do that.
• 1:34:09
  Well, well, let's get to 100. But no, the, the, it may be the
• 1:34:13
  engine will make it with the, the human body won't sustain
• 1:34:16
  that. And now to fly out of the
• 1:34:20
  Earth's gravitational pull, you have to travel over 17,000 miles
• 1:34:24
  an hour. So imagine in the 19, imagine
• 1:34:27
  early 1900's, the woman's uterus would explode if he goes more
• 1:34:32
  than 40 miles an hour and a guy named Robert Goddard's.
• 1:34:35
  And so 40 miles an hour is the top speed.
• 1:34:38
  And when the Wright Brothers invented flying, that belief was
• 1:34:42
  still there. That conversation was still a
• 1:34:45
  fact of life. So imagine an aeroplane today.
• 1:34:48
  Imagine we never disrupted that in our aeroplanes, only flew 40
• 1:34:52
  miles an hour as a top speed. How many people could you put on
• 1:34:55
  a plane? There'd be no 747.
• 1:34:58
  Right. So there are lots of
• 1:35:02
  conversations that derail us from possibilities that are
• 1:35:06
  beyond what we can see right now.
• 1:35:09
  And so people will say, well, he was just ahead of his time.
• 1:35:13
  But it's, it's transforming those conversations.
• 1:35:17
  No different than running the mile in under 4 minutes.
• 1:35:19
  There are just so many examples. Copernicus telling people that
• 1:35:24
  the Earth was not the centre of the universe, They had a problem
• 1:35:27
  with that. Yes, he didn't live long because
• 1:35:30
  of that. And we actually, we talked a lot
• 1:35:34
  about technological advancement and the conversation around AI
• 1:35:39
  and other industries and how it's impacting every industry
• 1:35:42
  right now. And it's funny, just earlier
• 1:35:44
  we're mentioning that it's quite interesting, but quite
• 1:35:50
  impossible to see where AI is going to move within the next
• 1:35:56
  five years, next 10 years, because we cannot predict how we
• 1:36:03
  underestimate it. And even when we don't realise
• 1:36:06
  we're underestimating it, we still are underestimating it.
• 1:36:09
  And I think that that goes straight into kind of all of all
• 1:36:14
  of the disruption and all of the things that businesses have to
• 1:36:19
  face, not even just an AI, but there's no way to really
• 1:36:25
  actually plan for. All we can really plan around is
• 1:36:30
  how we move through or if we're able to go into a flow state
• 1:36:34
  during that time and allow the rest of our body to take over
• 1:36:38
  and trust the system or the group or whatever we've built in
• 1:36:43
  that system. It's really interesting to hear
• 1:36:46
  that kind of the stance on emotional regulation because you
• 1:36:53
  have a book about love and leadership and when people talk
• 1:36:56
  about relationships and love and all of that, it's very
• 1:37:02
  emotionally charged. It's a very emotionally charged
• 1:37:06
  topic. Your book is called Here's Why
• 1:37:08
  You Can't Find Love and it actually links relationship
• 1:37:13
  struggles to business performance and you talk about
• 1:37:17
  paradigm shifting. What parallels do you see
• 1:37:22
  between personal self sabotage and professional self sabotage,
• 1:37:28
  or between interrelationship when it comes to the romantic
• 1:37:31
  aspect and the work you're doing with businesses when it comes to
• 1:37:36
  maybe understanding disruption and understanding that chaos is
• 1:37:40
  not really chaos, What are the parallels between those 2
• 1:37:43
  industries? So lots of them.
• 1:37:45
  The first is a financial impact. So do you know that corporate
• 1:37:50
  America is losing $300 billion every year in workplace
• 1:37:54
  productivity? I have heard a similar, yeah, a
• 1:37:58
  similar stance for sure. Why do you think that is and
• 1:38:03
  what do you think the parallels of that I'm?
• 1:38:05
  Going to ask you what? Do you know why they are losing
• 1:38:07
  300 billion every year? In productivity.
• 1:38:12
  Divorce. No, no, no, you.
• 1:38:14
  You have to let her see your your well.
• 1:38:16
  I'm curious, I'm curious to know if it's because of an efficient
• 1:38:21
  or, you know, unaligned workplace relationships or the
• 1:38:24
  lack of quality in workplace relationships.
• 1:38:27
  But I haven't had any, I haven't been able to do any research on
• 1:38:31
  it. So I'm actually very excited and
• 1:38:34
  to hear your stance on it. But I don't have a stance on it.
• 1:38:38
  So there's an organisation called Life Innovation.
• 1:38:40
  They did the research and they found that corporate America is
• 1:38:44
  losing $300 billion every year in workplace productivity
• 1:38:49
  because of one word divorce. Wow, OK.
• 1:38:55
  So divorce and, and you can throw in there, you know, bad
• 1:39:00
  relationships, whether an engagement broke up or a
• 1:39:02
  relationship that just fell apart.
• 1:39:06
  And they also found, there's another organisation that found
• 1:39:09
  that when a person is going through divorce, their workplace
• 1:39:11
  performance drops by 50 to 75%, right?
• 1:39:15
  So imagine a divorce rate of like 53% in the US.
• 1:39:20
  That's a lot of people being affected and being not
• 1:39:25
  performing. They're really underperforming
• 1:39:27
  and it's not intentional. They just have a distraction and
• 1:39:32
  you could say they are in the midst of what appears to be
• 1:39:35
  chaotic. They are in a situation they
• 1:39:39
  never wanted to be in. Most people do not marry to get
• 1:39:43
  a divorce. I would assume perhaps there
• 1:39:46
  are, there is a percentage of people, but even if they did
• 1:39:50
  plan, it probably didn't go the way they wanted the divorce to
• 1:39:54
  go. So there's a fight if there's
• 1:39:56
  children, if there are assets, and just the whole dealings and
• 1:40:00
  courts and lawyers and all those conversations that are really
• 1:40:04
  designed to create cortisol secretions with people.
• 1:40:11
  So you are or the purpose of your book was to really bring
• 1:40:20
  light and information and possibly healing to the insanely
• 1:40:28
  damaging financial impact on the corporate world just through
• 1:40:32
  divorce and relationships. Are there any maybe self
• 1:40:36
  sabotage patterns or professional patterns or
• 1:40:42
  barriers or transformations between relationships into the
• 1:40:47
  corporate world that you've seen or you've been able to witness
• 1:40:50
  or even coach on at all in your practise?
• 1:40:54
  Sure, sure. So the the same things that
• 1:40:57
  derail you and breakthrough initiatives will derail you and
• 1:41:01
  your relationships. It's really the stories.
• 1:41:02
  It's the things about your past that you have a story about and
• 1:41:07
  this person reminds you. So I wrote the book not to
• 1:41:10
  provide information. I wrote the book as a guide and
• 1:41:15
  a journey of transformation for the reader.
• 1:41:17
  So I didn't write it as this is a Ted talk and Ted is telling
• 1:41:22
  you like I am Ted and this is a Ted talk.
• 1:41:26
  I I didn't write it for that. It's written in a way that it's
• 1:41:30
  dynamic in a way the reader can relate to it.
• 1:41:33
  So it's almost like a workshop. There are five women, 5 separate
• 1:41:37
  characters who are engaging me in a conversation about
• 1:41:41
  relationships. And it's like Ted, but you're a
• 1:41:44
  guy and how could you see it that way?
• 1:41:45
  And this doesn't make sense. And so the reader will go on the
• 1:41:49
  journey of transformation with the people.
• 1:41:52
  And it's based on a real situation.
• 1:41:54
  So I read it so that the reader, their perspective of
• 1:41:59
  relationships is transformed and they have a greater capacity for
• 1:42:04
  being in a relationship. So if we can reduce or eliminate
• 1:42:09
  divorce in the US, we can get rid of that $300 billion in
• 1:42:13
  workplace productivity because with that much productivity
• 1:42:18
  loss, corporations will usually tend to lay people off at some
• 1:42:23
  point. And that affects everyone.
• 1:42:25
  So I think Google, I think it's Google just announced they're
• 1:42:30
  going to layoff 14,000 people. That's a lot.
• 1:42:32
  So that means possibly the auto car automakers will layoff
• 1:42:37
  people and then the home builders will layoff people in
• 1:42:40
  the washer and dryer will let you know.
• 1:42:42
  It's this downward spiral. So I'd like to contribute to
• 1:42:47
  eliminating that. So if you can train your people
• 1:42:52
  to be more effective in managing chaos and conflict and problems
• 1:42:57
  in the workplace, they will develop the tools, the skills,
• 1:43:00
  competencies that they own and take them home and have better
• 1:43:05
  marriages. And a big part of it is conflict
• 1:43:09
  resolution. So when we were talking about
• 1:43:12
  the woman in the dentist's office, if she gets into a
• 1:43:15
  situation where she believes she has to fight to be right, she's
• 1:43:18
  in conflict with herself because there's this thing from the past
• 1:43:22
  she wants to avoid and there's something she wants to discuss,
• 1:43:27
  and now she's in conflict. So she's in a conflict with the
• 1:43:31
  person and not realising that she's really in conflict with
• 1:43:36
  this thing from the past that she's fighting to avoid.
• 1:43:40
  That's the essence of conflict resolution.
• 1:43:43
  The conflict almost never has to deal with the other person or
• 1:43:46
  the situation. It's the conflict you're having
• 1:43:50
  with yourself that you want to avoid and you haven't addressed
• 1:43:54
  it to be able to unlearn it. And if people could develop
• 1:44:00
  that, then in their marriages, the conflicts that occur,
• 1:44:05
  they'll, they'll find that technically there was never a
• 1:44:09
  conflict with the other person. There's something that reminded
• 1:44:14
  them and they went into this whole survival, this thing that
• 1:44:19
  I have to avoid. And I'm going to look bad if I
• 1:44:22
  allow myself to go back to that. So I have to fight, you know, I
• 1:44:25
  have to fight. And they end up with a divorce
• 1:44:28
  when really there was just a misunderstanding and the the
• 1:44:31
  proper questions were not being asked.
• 1:44:35
  There was more of a defence. They went into defence mode.
• 1:44:38
  That's a lot to impact. I think I like to talk about
• 1:44:41
  engineering growth through pressure, pressure the CA makes.
• 1:44:45
  Diamond engineering growth, yeah.
• 1:44:48
  Through pressure, right? Pressure.
• 1:44:50
  The CA makes diamonds. Yeah.
• 1:44:52
  So how can CE OS intentionally design healthy stress right
• 1:44:59
  within their teams to spark innovation instead of sparking
• 1:45:03
  burnout? So I'm going to say that as long
• 1:45:08
  as we as a society keep talking about how burnt out people are,
• 1:45:14
  we'll be right about that. We are enabling and telling
• 1:45:19
  people to be burnt. It's almost like we're giving
• 1:45:22
  people an excuse to be an underperformer.
• 1:45:27
  That's a conversation that really needs to transform.
• 1:45:30
  We're talking about burning out because when you put someone in
• 1:45:34
  an environment or situation and they say they really love doing
• 1:45:38
  this, they'll work right through for hours and never know that
• 1:45:43
  time went by and they'll never say I'm burnt out.
• 1:45:46
  So if you create an environment where people don't know how to
• 1:45:51
  address the conflicts they're having with themselves, it's
• 1:45:54
  easy to go to burnout. So it's it's not the burnout we
• 1:45:59
  want to address. It's the mindset of the people
• 1:46:04
  who are more nimble and able to manage what's occurring in front
• 1:46:08
  of them. And so that way chaos actually
• 1:46:11
  disappeared and it's just something that's occurring and
• 1:46:14
  I've got I have to manage that. Pro athletes are really great at
• 1:46:18
  this. Like the top athletes, you're
• 1:46:20
  running back. Football can be considered
• 1:46:22
  chaotic and stressful. You gave me the ball.
• 1:46:24
  These guys are coming to kill me, but you don't lay on the
• 1:46:28
  ground and say, Oh my God, don't hit me.
• 1:46:31
  You run right through those guys and you may have moved.
• 1:46:35
  Some may be more powerful and they run, they forced through
• 1:46:38
  and others can move there and they have the agility to take
• 1:46:42
  the hit, spin around and and keep going.
• 1:46:44
  But they trained for that and there's a mindset.
• 1:46:48
  It's kind of like a mindset of running with broken legs.
• 1:46:51
  There's this unstoppable mindset.
• 1:46:55
  It's interesting, you actually are trainer of CEOs and it feels
• 1:47:00
  like you you took, when I say some pages off 2 CEOs we've had
• 1:47:07
  on this show. One earlier today, the CEO of
• 1:47:10
  Keeper, he spoke exactly what you're talking about.
• 1:47:13
  He said he likes to make sure that people are passionate about
• 1:47:17
  the job they do in his company. If you're passionate about
• 1:47:20
  something, you will walk right through the fire to get it done.
• 1:47:25
  And he said something he said I would never, I would never work
• 1:47:28
  on something I'm not passionate about.
• 1:47:30
  If I get bored, you know, I have some sweet what I'm working on.
• 1:47:33
  And you know, that speaks to even what we do here myself and
• 1:47:38
  Noella, like we, we're passionate about communication,
• 1:47:41
  passionate about music. And sometimes we probably like,
• 1:47:46
  get what I say, maybe offers to do something we're not
• 1:47:50
  passionate about. And we end up not pursuing those
• 1:47:53
  offers because you will. That is writing a letter to
• 1:47:58
  burnout, right? And the CEO of Tikkor at the
• 1:48:02
  investment company, it's an investment source too.
• 1:48:07
  He said something he said his own blueprint is he likes to
• 1:48:10
  employ X Pro athletes. Like, for you to work with
• 1:48:15
  Tikkor, you have to be an athlete, right?
• 1:48:17
  Because athletes understand, you know, the process, the mindset
• 1:48:23
  of doing repetitive tasks, you know we have a discipline you
• 1:48:28
  don't. He doesn't like to trim.
• 1:48:30
  People on the mindset he. Guess people who are pre trained
• 1:48:33
  at athletes have that mindset, you know, ready made, you know,
• 1:48:37
  it's a default setting for for athletes.
• 1:48:39
  That's one thing you know, I really appreciate it even about
• 1:48:42
  my own background. You know, I was involved in
• 1:48:44
  martial arts very early on in life, you know, from Taekwondo
• 1:48:49
  to karate, judo, this martial arts.
• 1:48:51
  And he taught me something even till today.
• 1:48:54
  I'm always very confident. And if I go to because I know,
• 1:48:58
  yeah, I can handle business. And you know, he gives me that
• 1:49:02
  discipline of being able to do things even when I don't feel
• 1:49:06
  like doing it. If I put my mind to it, I can
• 1:49:09
  get it done. And another thing is, if you, if
• 1:49:12
  you doubt me, I think doubt is fuel for me.
• 1:49:14
  Just doubt me. And you'll see me do it so.
• 1:49:19
  Yeah, athletes actually have, you know, that discipline of
• 1:49:22
  getting things done even when it is difficult.
• 1:49:25
  And they enjoy that chaotic, you know, process.
• 1:49:29
  And, you know, there's something with putting yourself through
• 1:49:32
  difficult situations, right? Earlier on in this interview,
• 1:49:36
  you talked about how sometimes you discover things about
• 1:49:39
  yourself. And you know, it reminded me of
• 1:49:42
  like certain workouts. There was a time I used to do
• 1:49:46
  easily. Now I can do 5 kilometres.
• 1:49:49
  But just like, what do I tell this to be?
• 1:49:52
  Earlier today I just stood up and eat 5 kilometres right?
• 1:49:55
  But. At some point I was doing 10
• 1:49:59
  kilometres and I think there was a day I I think I broke about 15
• 1:50:03
  kilometres, exceeded it. And when you go past?
• 1:50:10
  5. You know, that's what you do
• 1:50:12
  regularly when you get to 10, your body's telling you, oh bro,
• 1:50:17
  you're tired. When you stretch to 15, your
• 1:50:23
  body goes to a very, very dark place if you've got trained for
• 1:50:29
  it. And you know, for that I like to
• 1:50:34
  stretch right. So I want you to talk about it,
• 1:50:37
  right? When you go to that dark place
• 1:50:41
  and you exceed your record, right?
• 1:50:44
  You discover things about yourself that you never before
• 1:50:49
  knew where possible, right? What's the side behind that?
• 1:50:52
  The way the way to get there is I have to ask the two of you a
• 1:50:56
  question. I'm going to present both of you
• 1:51:00
  with a relationship, an intimate relationship and you have two
• 1:51:05
  different people and the people are equal in looks and tell it
• 1:51:09
  like they're equal in the things that you want.
• 1:51:11
  But here's here's what's going to happen.
• 1:51:15
  And one or the other in one relationship, it's going to be
• 1:51:21
  very passionate. That's you have a choice between
• 1:51:26
  this very passionate person with this person, or you have the
• 1:51:30
  choice of a highly committed person, a highly committed
• 1:51:35
  relationship with the other person.
• 1:51:37
  Which relationship are you choosing?
• 1:51:43
  Are those the only two choices? So if you want polygamy, we can
• 1:51:48
  create a third, but or you can have them both this, this is
• 1:51:52
  this is about this is it, this is game time.
• 1:51:55
  It's making a decision. This is a choice.
• 1:51:57
  This is your life. This.
• 1:51:59
  You're choosing. The passionate, I said if we're
• 1:52:02
  doing polygamy, I got it. You're going to have to make a
• 1:52:06
  choice, one or the other. You got to be a great decision
• 1:52:10
  maker here. You choose the person who's
• 1:52:13
  going to be who it, with whom it will be very passionate or you
• 1:52:16
  choose the highly committed relationship.
• 1:52:20
  Which are you choosing? The clock is ticking.
• 1:52:27
  What if I don't choose anyone? Well, I would choose.
• 1:52:33
  I think it's interesting because it does give a parallel to
• 1:52:40
  business and how we're speaking earlier about if they are
• 1:52:45
  working in a scope that they are passionate about, then they can
• 1:52:49
  work for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and
• 1:52:53
  there is no burnout, in which case the commitment would come
• 1:52:58
  naturally. Nope.
• 1:52:59
  Nope, you don't. Nope.
• 1:53:00
  You get highly committed or passionate.
• 1:53:03
  That's it. That sounds horrible.
• 1:53:05
  I was. No, but this, this is life.
• 1:53:09
  This is life. Life is about making these
• 1:53:11
  choices. Every day, every second of your
• 1:53:14
  life, you're making choices, and this is an important one.
• 1:53:19
  You're choosing that this person can be your spouse, and the
• 1:53:22
  choice of a spouse is the most important decision you make in
• 1:53:25
  your life. Hi Ted.
• 1:53:27
  I guess maybe that's why I don't Barry till till now.
• 1:53:32
  That's. All right.
• 1:53:33
  Yeah. I'm I'm asking you both to
• 1:53:35
  answer the question. It's interesting you're both
• 1:53:38
  struggling with this. It's a very simple question.
• 1:53:41
  I would very simple. If it's for so we're speaking
• 1:53:45
  about a life partner, then I would say and you.
• 1:53:48
  And if we know for a fact that the passion would be without
• 1:53:53
  commitment, then I would choose commitment.
• 1:53:55
  But I do believe that in the right relationship that.
• 1:54:01
  No, no, you're, you're choosing between two people.
• 1:54:03
  OK, this is it. It's it's really cut and dry
• 1:54:06
  because one person is going to be highly is going to be very
• 1:54:09
  passionate. The other one is highly
• 1:54:11
  committed. Then I would choose highly
• 1:54:12
  committed. OK, great.
• 1:54:15
  Thank you. Which of you choose he's?
• 1:54:19
  Choosing highly passionate. Why?
• 1:54:22
  Why you choosing for me? I think I'll go.
• 1:54:25
  I'll go with coveted. Yeah, I think I'll go.
• 1:54:27
  Committed. Yeah.
• 1:54:29
  Now, isn't this interesting? Isn't this interesting?
• 1:54:32
  When the red. No, no, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:54:35
  Hold on, Hold on, hold on. OK.
• 1:54:37
  When the rubber meets, When the rubber meets the road, when it's
• 1:54:40
  really important. What do people choose?
• 1:54:43
  I've asked countless people this.
• 1:54:45
  Question. Only one person ever said
• 1:54:48
  passionate, and everyone else says highly committed.
• 1:54:52
  Yet we talk about wanting to be passionate about things.
• 1:54:56
  When you look at an athlete like Usain Bolt, you don't see a guy
• 1:55:00
  who's highly passionate about running, because when that guy
• 1:55:03
  trains, he trains so hard that he vomits.
• 1:55:08
  When it's passionate, you do it when it feels good.
• 1:55:12
  In the moment, it's not feeling good and you're vomiting.
• 1:55:15
  This doesn't resonate and I'm out.
• 1:55:17
  But when you're highly committed, none of that matters.
• 1:55:20
  So the divorce courts are filled with passionate couples.
• 1:55:25
  It's filled with them, but I promise you, it's not filled
• 1:55:29
  with highly committed couples because those highly committed
• 1:55:32
  couples worked together. They're committed to making it
• 1:55:36
  work and they will do the training, preparation, whatever
• 1:55:40
  it takes to make sure they understand one another and work
• 1:55:43
  it through. Highly passionate.
• 1:55:46
  There's a feeling I want and when that's gone, man, I'm
• 1:55:50
  having questions. Maybe this is not, I didn't sign
• 1:55:54
  up for this. I'm signing up for the feeling.
• 1:55:57
  So in my book, the punchline is love doesn't create a great
• 1:56:02
  relationship. Mm, hmm.
• 1:56:04
  Love is a byproduct of a great relationship.
• 1:56:07
  So if you have the capacity for creating a great relationship,
• 1:56:12
  the competence, the skills, the competence to create a great
• 1:56:15
  relationship and two people are compatible with that kind of
• 1:56:20
  competence, you're going to create a highly committed
• 1:56:23
  relationship. If you don't possess those, why
• 1:56:27
  should anyone love you? Because you're going to be
• 1:56:29
  incompetent and all you can do is offer a feeling and that's
• 1:56:34
  it. But that feeling doesn't create
• 1:56:36
  a great relationship. It's, you know, are we
• 1:56:38
  compatible in the way we resolve conflict?
• 1:56:41
  Are we compatible and how we manage money?
• 1:56:44
  Are we compatible in sex? Are we compatible on how we take
• 1:56:47
  care of our mental and physical health?
• 1:56:49
  How do we want to raise and discipline our children?
• 1:56:52
  How do we want to educate? These are areas that will be
• 1:56:55
  consistent over time. And these are are the reasons
• 1:57:00
  arranged marriages work so well, because arranged marriages
• 1:57:04
  require the families to come together and they're looking for
• 1:57:08
  these things to be compatible. Not that, hey, we both like a
• 1:57:12
  certain kind of music and we like to party at the same clubs
• 1:57:16
  and go to the same vacation spots.
• 1:57:18
  Those are things that you have in common that may dissipate as
• 1:57:23
  you get older and then you'll say, we have nothing in common
• 1:57:25
  anymore and the passion is gone. But if you're highly committed,
• 1:57:30
  you'll talk through those things and even where it comes to
• 1:57:34
  areas. Well, I see it this way.
• 1:57:36
  You see, that way a highly committed couple can operate
• 1:57:40
  like water, and water is made of hydrogen and oxygen that come
• 1:57:45
  together to make something neither of them could have done
• 1:57:48
  on their own. Mm hmm.
• 1:57:51
  Be like water, my friend Percy. Yeah, be like water, my friend.
• 1:57:59
  So, so it's interesting you both chose commitment.
• 1:58:02
  So when, when people talk about I want to hire people who are
• 1:58:06
  passionate, No, I want highly committed people because they're
• 1:58:10
  going to go through it. And I've hired people who I've
• 1:58:13
  asked them to do things and they didn't know how to do.
• 1:58:16
  And they, they were frustrated and they, why are you asking me
• 1:58:19
  to do this? I don't know how to do that.
• 1:58:20
  And you're, you're asking me to do something that is beyond me
• 1:58:24
  and blah, blah. And then they did it.
• 1:58:27
  They never knew they could do it.
• 1:58:29
  They had no passion for it, But then they became good at it,
• 1:58:34
  like really good at it. How do you learn if you can only
• 1:58:40
  do the things you're passionate about?
• 1:58:43
  How do you learn something new? How do you get to the paradigm
• 1:58:46
  of breakthrough and and paradigm shifts?
• 1:58:49
  Because you're going to be passionate about the things
• 1:58:51
  you're good at. And then one day you're
• 1:58:53
  obsolete. You're just a, a buggy whip.
• 1:58:55
  You're a horse and buggy and no one is riding you anymore unless
• 1:58:59
  you go to New York and Central Park.
• 1:59:00
  They have. Absolutely.
• 1:59:04
  I'm trying to remember a quote right?
• 1:59:06
  It says when motivation fails, discipline will carry you
• 1:59:12
  through. When motivation fails,
• 1:59:15
  discipline, you know, gets the job done.
• 1:59:20
  And I have something on my wall here that says it's not over
• 1:59:23
  when you lose, it's over when you beat.
• 1:59:27
  OK, good. Yeah, very good.
• 1:59:30
  There's a quote. His last name is Marquis.
• 1:59:35
  It says when you make people think they are thinking, they
• 1:59:39
  will love you. When you make people really
• 1:59:42
  think, they will hate you. My work requires people to
• 1:59:48
  actually think. But the value of actually
• 1:59:51
  thinking instead of just having thoughts is so profound that
• 1:59:55
  allows you to see a world that may have been there and you just
• 1:59:59
  it was right there hidden in plain sight, and you couldn't
• 2:00:02
  see it. Mm Hmm.
• 2:00:04
  And so your actions were only shaped by what you could see.
• 2:00:08
  And like the guy Robert Goddard, who said man will fly to the
• 2:00:13
  moon, he saw a world that that the rest of the world could not
• 2:00:16
  see. But, and it was possible, it
• 2:00:18
  wasn't a pipe dream. Mm hmm.
• 2:00:22
  It's having access to that kind Nikola Tesla kind of innovation
• 2:00:28
  to be able to see possibilities and then take the actions
• 2:00:32
  without getting derailed because there are problems.
• 2:00:37
  They'll they'll be gaps. Here's where you are, here's
• 2:00:39
  where you want to be. And there will be problems in
• 2:00:42
  those gaps that you have not seen in the past.
• 2:00:45
  And having that highly committed will support you when working
• 2:00:49
  through them as opposed to being derailed and saying it's just
• 2:00:53
  not meant to be. Are there any trends or anything
• 2:00:59
  that you believe or can't think about in regard to predicting
• 2:01:06
  future trends for the next generation of CE OS?
• 2:01:10
  You have an insane, an insane background of working with all
• 2:01:16
  types of different CE OS, Fortune 500 CE OS, people that
• 2:01:21
  you've collaborated with, teams that you've built, people that
• 2:01:24
  you've helped in paradigm shifting.
• 2:01:27
  When it comes to the generation coming up right now, do you have
• 2:01:31
  any predictions that will define the entire generation coming up?
• 2:01:39
  Kind of like someone's going to the room or.
• 2:01:45
  Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting
• 2:01:49
  that generation, Generation Z coming up, you're hearing many
• 2:01:53
  of them turn down management positions because they say
• 2:01:57
  what's going to be demanded of me is not worth the money.
• 2:02:00
  So I'd rather, you know, just have a easy 9 to 5.
• 2:02:04
  That could be a challenge also could be the catalyst that
• 2:02:12
  starts to train people to be able to better navigate chaos.
• 2:02:18
  Because if we have people who are not comfortable with that
• 2:02:22
  and we have too many people who grew up where everyone gets a
• 2:02:26
  trophy just for participation, that creates an unspoken policy,
• 2:02:31
  which is you get rewarded even for being mediocre.
• 2:02:36
  And so it takes away the possibility of of people running
• 2:02:42
  with broken legs, right? So like you go in the gym, you
• 2:02:45
  work out and you break down a muscle, but that's how you build
• 2:02:48
  it to be bigger and stronger. So if people are avoiding those
• 2:02:52
  that that breakdown, what will eventually happen is there'll be
• 2:02:59
  a breakdown and people will have to then deal with that.
• 2:03:03
  They will have to lift themselves out of of the
• 2:03:05
  breakdown. So participation trophies will
• 2:03:08
  not suffice anymore. Like people will actually have
• 2:03:11
  to do the work. So I'm asserting people not
• 2:03:14
  having the capacity to deal with chaos and wanting everything to
• 2:03:18
  be easy and comfortable will eventually create an environment
• 2:03:24
  where they will have to be trained to be more committed or
• 2:03:27
  highly committed and and have a greater capacity for navigating
• 2:03:31
  the chaos. Which then I would say then
• 2:03:37
  creates an organisation that instead of focusing on financial
• 2:03:41
  re engineering where you slash jobs and slash expenses and file
• 2:03:47
  bankruptcy to, you know, you pay back pennies on a dollar.
• 2:03:52
  I'm going to say it the wrong way.
• 2:03:53
  First we will focus on engineering human capital.
• 2:03:59
  So instead of financial reengineering, it's human
• 2:04:03
  reengineering and and training and developing people in such a
• 2:04:08
  way that they are more facile and more effective in dealing
• 2:04:12
  with the chaos that comes. And what I assert will also
• 2:04:16
  happen out of that is people will become better in their
• 2:04:20
  marriages and their personal lives and we can mitigate the
• 2:04:23
  divorce rate. Right now the divorce rate is,
• 2:04:26
  is strangling us and we're pretending it's not happening.
• 2:04:30
  If so, if you think about bad divorces and, and the conflict
• 2:04:35
  it creates, people bring that to the workplace, even though in
• 2:04:39
  the workplace the difference is they tell you this is business
• 2:04:42
  etiquette and you, you respond to what triggers you at work
• 2:04:47
  like this, But at home, anything goes.
• 2:04:51
  So if we can and there's, there's really no training for
• 2:04:54
  how to be a good spouse, anything goes.
• 2:04:57
  People will say, well, you're getting the best of me and
• 2:05:00
  you're, you're getting all of me.
• 2:05:01
  And I there, this is, this is the real me.
• 2:05:04
  It's like, wow, I don't want the real you.
• 2:05:06
  I want the you that you give to everyone at work.
• 2:05:09
  I want that one right, That one who's who's a professional, be a
• 2:05:12
  professional husband or wife or boyfriend or girlfriend and
• 2:05:16
  actually talk about that in my book.
• 2:05:17
  So I'm I'm saying that we will create an environment that's
• 2:05:23
  unsustainable, that will force people to create an environment
• 2:05:28
  that is much more empowering, but it may come out of the
• 2:05:32
  darkness of running 15K. Whoa, that's a very, very dark
• 2:05:40
  place. Trust me.
• 2:05:42
  You see yourself beyond free perceived the limit.
• 2:05:46
  I can't express it in words, but you know, sometimes, and this,
• 2:05:51
  this is just me. Sometimes when I do, not just in
• 2:05:55
  terms of, you know, pushing the body, but also pushing the mind
• 2:05:59
  to complete certain things, I have been this kind of person
• 2:06:03
  who I spit myself in, you know, many challenging situations,
• 2:06:09
  many challenges, testing myself beyond limits.
• 2:06:14
  I'm a numbers guy. I love to break my own records.
• 2:06:17
  And sometimes when I break that record, I look back and be like,
• 2:06:23
  oh wow, you did that shit. And it gives me a new level of
• 2:06:28
  self esteem, self respect to myself.
• 2:06:31
  Like put some respect on my knee.
• 2:06:33
  The press, you know, I pushed myself to do that.
• 2:06:40
  Yeah, right. But you have to remember those
• 2:06:41
  guys from Kenya and Ethiopia run 26 miles at an unbelievable
• 2:06:46
  pace. Yes.
• 2:06:48
  And there there's a there's a huge mind shift in that.
• 2:06:51
  You know, they used to say once you pass 20 mile mark, it's it's
• 2:06:55
  really rough. And So what would have gotten
• 2:06:59
  you to be someone else after 20 miles is is a mindset.
• 2:07:03
  You said the their preconceived notions are getting to 15 K is
• 2:07:07
  is a lot but. Yeah.
• 2:07:10
  There's a different mindset even when I work out, so I've
• 2:07:13
  experimented. Yeah, I've got 20K by the by the
• 2:07:16
  way, but man, oh good, I had to skip for a whole day.
• 2:07:25
  Man. My legs are sore.
• 2:07:27
  When I've worked out, there are parts where it's like, OK, this
• 2:07:30
  is the part where it's going to hurt.
• 2:07:32
  And then I create a conversation saying, wow, if I say that
• 2:07:36
  that's what's going to happen and I'm going to run out.
• 2:07:39
  And just by altering that, not having positive speak, it's
• 2:07:43
  like, OK, I actually have the power to keep going.
• 2:07:46
  If I tell myself I don't my my body, my biochemicals will
• 2:07:51
  support exactly what I'm saying, that I'm going to feel pain and
• 2:07:55
  it's unbelievable how much powers is left in that.
• 2:07:59
  And I've just done this with experiments with myself quite
• 2:08:02
  often. Yeah, it's so important what we
• 2:08:09
  tell ourselves and what the stories that we have.
• 2:08:13
  It shapes who we are. We're going to do a quick fire
• 2:08:18
  round, so just shoot off a few questions to you.
• 2:08:22
  We're going to go back and forth and see how quickly we can get
• 2:08:28
  answers from you. Before we do that, I just want
• 2:08:32
  to say it's been such a pleasure having you hearing your wisdom
• 2:08:36
  and your expertise and getting some of that to our audience.
• 2:08:41
  We have people that are all different walks of life around
• 2:08:47
  the globe and we love to bring truth from different countries
• 2:08:51
  in and really help define that for people around the globe.
• 2:08:55
  So this has been such a pleasure to have you to get this insight
• 2:08:59
  to business leaders, CE OS, CF OS entrepreneurs and or just
• 2:09:05
  dreamers right now who are maybe in a startup phase or too scared
• 2:09:08
  to even take that first step, but they are working towards
• 2:09:11
  that. So thank you so much.
• 2:09:13
  So I'll have AI start and then we'll just kind of go back and
• 2:09:17
  forth and then we'll be able to close out.
• 2:09:20
  OK, Want to say something really quickly to what you said and
• 2:09:23
  it's also going back to your question about the future.
• 2:09:27
  And I would say that what businesses need in the from now
• 2:09:30
  on going forward is wisdom. We technically don't need AI.
• 2:09:34
  We don't need AI. We need more wisdom.
• 2:09:36
  You don't need to be not just the top absolutely we need we
• 2:09:41
  need more. We need leaders who can lead
• 2:09:43
  from wisdom as opposed to just short termism.
• 2:09:48
  And McKenzie just did a wrote an article about the difference
• 2:09:51
  between CEO leading short term. How do you navigate that and
• 2:09:57
  really deal with the long term and your investors?
• 2:09:59
  So yeah, it's wisdom if there's a gap in wisdom.
• 2:10:04
  Absolutely. The fear of the Lord is the
• 2:10:07
  beginning of wisdom, and for the Lord gives wisdom, and from His
• 2:10:12
  mouth commerce, knowledge and understanding.
• 2:10:15
  So. I'm, I'm a very big person of
• 2:10:19
  faith and I know like I don't know if other people you know,
• 2:10:25
  would allude to this, but I believe very much in God-given
• 2:10:28
  wisdom and seeking direction from God.
• 2:10:32
  There are times where in our human abilities, human
• 2:10:35
  knowledge, human understanding fills us.
• 2:10:38
  You know, the Bible says lean not onto your own understanding
• 2:10:42
  and you know, trust in God in all your ways and he will lead
• 2:10:46
  you the right time. And of course, if any of you
• 2:10:49
  lacks wisdom, you should ask God who gives generously to all
• 2:10:54
  without find and fold and it will be given to you.
• 2:10:57
  That's James chapter 1 described.
• 2:10:59
  That's not to put that in. I appreciate very much on your
• 2:11:06
  when I say not wisdom. Wisdom is property, routine,
• 2:11:09
  direct. Thank you.
• 2:11:13
  So let's fire off Rep. Yes.
• 2:11:17
  Are you ready to rumble? There we go.
• 2:11:23
  I know. OK.
• 2:11:24
  What book every CEO should be besides your own?
• 2:11:30
  Blue ocean strategy. Blue ocean strategy.
• 2:11:33
  Blue. Awesome.
• 2:11:34
  Yeah. Blue ocean at the end of Blue
• 2:11:36
  Ocean. Alright.
• 2:11:37
  I love that book. Yes.
• 2:11:39
  What's your greatest leadership lesson learned from failure it?
• 2:11:44
  Wasn't my failure, it was someone else's failure.
• 2:11:47
  And the person who was trained and coached from AVP level to
• 2:11:53
  become a president was hired as the president, had the job doing
• 2:11:57
  well and the failure came from, and I this is important for a
• 2:12:03
  lot of professional managers. One of the things that happens
• 2:12:08
  when you become president or a higher level manager, the
• 2:12:12
  employees will attempt to train you and tell you how things are
• 2:12:17
  around here and how they should be done.
• 2:12:20
  Once you buy from the employers, employees as opposed to
• 2:12:25
  understanding your job is there to make something happen that
• 2:12:29
  wasn't going to happen. The employees are not there to
• 2:12:33
  do that. They are there, and this sounds
• 2:12:36
  a little bit dictatorship like, but the employees generally are
• 2:12:41
  there to keep things the way they are.
• 2:12:42
  They're not there to have someone come in and disrupt them
• 2:12:47
  and have them do something different.
• 2:12:49
  Employees will do their best to tell you this is the way it goes
• 2:12:52
  around here. Even though you're the new
• 2:12:54
  manager, the new leader, once you buy into that, you're no
• 2:12:58
  longer a leader in that organisation.
• 2:13:00
  You're just an employee and you risk losing your job at that
• 2:13:04
  point. So I've seen someone get the job
• 2:13:08
  and lose it because they allowed the employees to train them on a
• 2:13:15
  lot of different things and IT just wasn't in their best
• 2:13:18
  interest at all. So that was a failure that I
• 2:13:22
  saw. And an important lesson for any
• 2:13:27
  person going into a new organisation, especially in in
• 2:13:30
  the C-Suite, that you go there to understand what's happening
• 2:13:34
  and then make your plan for what's possible in the future as
• 2:13:38
  opposed to letting the employees tell you the way it's going to
• 2:13:41
  be. Absolutely.
• 2:13:44
  OK, they also order which breeds the most creativity.
• 2:13:53
  Neither, it's your perspective of the playing field.
• 2:13:56
  No, I love that perspective. Perspective.
• 2:14:00
  Who is the most disruptive leader alive today?
• 2:14:05
  Elon Musk. That was the answer of my mind.
• 2:14:09
  Some people may say Trump, but Musk?
• 2:14:12
  OK, if leadership had a soundtrack, what song title
• 2:14:16
  would define yours? Music is not advanced enough to
• 2:14:20
  be able to make a song for me. Whoa.
• 2:14:26
  They would have to have a paradigm shift in music to do
• 2:14:29
  that. No way.
• 2:14:30
  OK, we we will, we will come up with this song.
• 2:14:33
  Don't worry if you're musicians, I don't said it right to you.
• 2:14:36
  You will get that song in your e-mail, a lot of press, you
• 2:14:39
  know, thank you very much. We, we highly, highly appreciate
• 2:14:43
  you. What a person shares the time
• 2:14:45
  with you to share their life with you because the aspect unit
• 2:14:48
  will measure at 5:00 this time. So love and of course, massive
• 2:14:53
  respect to you for joining us on the show today and of course,
• 2:14:56
  sharing Nuggets upon Nuggets. We can't wait to have Episode 2
• 2:15:04
  over to Loel Ruk. Yeah.
• 2:15:08
  Again, just thank you so much. Your wisdom is invaluable,
• 2:15:14
  especially in these times of participation trophies and not
• 2:15:23
  really wanting to do the work or really seeing the value of doing
• 2:15:27
  the work. You're helping massive, massive
• 2:15:31
  teams in business makeshifts that people spend their whole
• 2:15:35
  lives dedicating themselves to and trying to figure out how to
• 2:15:39
  do within their own awareness, and you're kind of speaking on a
• 2:15:43
  completely different level. I think it's so insightful, so
• 2:15:48
  valuable and essential for everyone to take in this type of
• 2:15:51
  knowledge and their own personal lives and again and their
• 2:15:54
  relationships because we are the extent of our relationships and
• 2:15:59
  it has a global impact for us as humans.
• 2:16:02
  So thank you so much for your time and your was truly truly
• 2:16:06
  appreciated. Thank you very much.
• 2:16:10
  It's been my pleasure to be here with the two of you and thank
• 2:16:13
  you for asking such great questions that allowed for
• 2:16:16
  really insightful conversation. So thank.
• 2:16:19
  You thank you once more and across to the audience on this.
• 2:16:23
  Go for something in your life. Conceive, believe, strive to
• 2:16:28
  thrive and achieve. Confess you guys.