Latest / Voddie Baucham Sermons / Voddie Baucham - The Institute of Public Theology Tom Ascol, Voddie Baucham, Jared Longshore & Tom Nettles

Transcript

Voddie Baucham - The Institute of Public Theology Tom Ascol, Voddie Baucham, Jared Longshore & Tom Nettles · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I am excited about the Institute of Public Theology,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: and I couldn't be more excited about venturing into this
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: with you guys.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is like the.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Dream team for me, to have you men here. And
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: it's fascinating. I've actually thought a little bit about this. Tom,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you're in your 70s, and I'm in my 60s.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: You're in your 50s. You're in your 30s. So we
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: just missed one decade there.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: We need somebody in their 40s. That's right. We need
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: a 40s.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: I'll volunteer. Go backwards. That's right.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: But just thinking about the experience and the connectedness that
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: God's given us through the years in our own individual spheres,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: because we've all got things we've been doing apart from
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: each other, but how God's intertwined our lives together. And
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: when I was thinking about this idea and just the
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: genesis of it and feeling really the need This is
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: something that we could do that would benefit the kingdom
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: where we could provide some training based upon our understanding
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: of the gospel, our confessional commitments, and then out of
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: our own experiences as well. Man, men of conviction, that's
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: what I want.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: If I'm going to go for training, if I'm.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Going to commend men to training, I want them to
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: sit under men who have conviction and who have blood
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  Speaker 1: mixed with that conviction so that the conviction is not
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: just theoretical. It's not just, oh, yeah, We sign all
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the documents, and yeah, here's our confession at 30,000 feet.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: But no, we got mud on our boots. We've been
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: in the trenches. We know what it is to engage
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  Speaker 1: day by day in the drudgery work of trying to
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: make Jesus Christ known. So I'm delighted that we have
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: this opportunity. I think it's going to be useful. We've
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: already seen God work in incredible ways in bringing things together,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: not just the four of us as founding faculty, but
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: also others who are interested and willing to serve along
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: with us adjunctively. And then we've received contact from hundreds
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: of people who have identified themselves as potential students. So
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: let me just kick it out to you guys. I mean,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: what do you see? Why the Institute of Public Theology
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: for a time like this? Jared, you and I have
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: had more conversations about this than others, so tell us.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: It's a story for me.
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  Speaker 4: It kind of goes back to planting a church out
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  Speaker 4: of your church many, many years ago and a passion
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  Speaker 4: for Christ to be known in the world, for people
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  Speaker 4: to come to Christ and for people to be transformed
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  Speaker 4: by the power of Christ and the power of His Spirit.
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  Speaker 4: And that was kind of back in a time when
• 2:31
  Speaker 4: there was a lot of movement in the evangelical world
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  Speaker 4: in America, a lot of going to the city, a
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  Speaker 4: lot of, I remember Chris Tomlin's song was the was
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: the thing.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: You're the God of this city. You're the king of
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  Speaker 3: this people.
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  Speaker 4: And I saw these men who loved the Lord and
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: were ready to go.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And make Him known.
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  Speaker 4: And then at the same time I was personally coming
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: to confessional commitments and discovery. I was already reformed and
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: thinking soteriologically but I was discovering the 1689 Confession and
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: then you.
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  Speaker 2: And I was like, whoa founders and all this.
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  Speaker 4: And then watching that movement of men who wanted to
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  Speaker 4: go out and make Christ known in the world watching
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  Speaker 4: them just compromise and kind of be put in the
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  Speaker 4: pocket of the world and then lose the confessional commitment,
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  Speaker 4: lose the doctrine. And then at the same time seeing
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  Speaker 4: this other group of men that had the doctrine but
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: didn't seem to have that passion for Christ in the
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: world and God's Word applied to all of life. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: they really did. They turned it to ivory tower theology.
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: It was up there and they had it. But they
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  Speaker 4: weren't on the ground. They weren't in the work of
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  Speaker 4: pastoral ministry and shepherding people and all of that. And
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: so I remember sitting with you. We were at a restaurant,
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: and I told you, I said, I'm going to the Northeast.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to the Northeast.
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  Speaker 4: I want to go right to New York.
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  Speaker 3: I want to go to Boston.
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  Speaker 4: I want to go to Philly. I want to go somewhere,
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  Speaker 4: and I want to take the 1699 Confession. I want
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  Speaker 4: to light it on fire. I want to run it
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  Speaker 4: through the streets and preach Christ. And you kind of
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: smirked and probably thought that I was just being young
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  Speaker 4: and too ambitious. And it was in that same meeting
• 4:02
  Speaker 4: where you mentioned becoming your associate and that happened. But
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  Speaker 4: that was there and I watched what happened and I
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  Speaker 4: thought where are the men who are going to say
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  Speaker 4: these are our doctrinal convictions and this is God's world.
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  Speaker 4: And Christ is Lord of all. He is King of kings.
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  Speaker 4: He is Lord of lords. His truth applies to every
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  Speaker 4: single area of your life. In this Schaeferian sense or
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  Speaker 4: this Kuyperian sense that Yeah, there is no, we're not
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  Speaker 4: going to talk about this division of the sacred and
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  Speaker 4: the secular. And there are sacred things, there's the Lord's Supper,
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  Speaker 4: and there's the holy worship of God on the Sabbath day,
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  Speaker 4: all of that, yes and amen. But we're not going
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  Speaker 4: to allow any area of life to be detached from
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  Speaker 4: the Word of God. We're not going to allow the
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  Speaker 4: secularist to disciple our children from and to raise up
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  Speaker 4: the next generation. We're not going to do that. We're
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  Speaker 4: actually going to fill the Great Commission which is not
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  Speaker 4: only go and baptize. Yes, that, but it is to
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  Speaker 4: teach them all that I have commanded and Christ has
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  Speaker 4: commanded us a lot of things. So confusion over law
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  Speaker 4: and confusion over the Great Commission has kind of left
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  Speaker 4: us in a place where people they say a prayer,
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  Speaker 4: they get baptized, but they're not being discipled. And then
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  Speaker 4: the Christian ministry has bought into that way. David Wells
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  Speaker 4: here in No Place for Truth. I remember reading that
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  Speaker 4: book and thinking the managerial, pragmatic way. Church growth stuff
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  Speaker 4: on the one hand or just an unbelief in the
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  Speaker 4: risen Christ, the ascended Christ just causes a ministry to
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  Speaker 4: do certain things but not actually address the errors of
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  Speaker 4: the day with the Word of God.
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  Speaker 3: This is C.S.
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  Speaker 4: Lewis who talks about resistance thinking and And he says
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  Speaker 4: you emphasize the parts of Scripture that are in harmony
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  Speaker 4: with the spirit of the age and you won't have
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  Speaker 4: any bumps. And he said you won't have any relevance.
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  Speaker 4: But you emphasize the parts of Scripture, the Christian gospel.
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  Speaker 4: that are contrary to the spirit of the age, even
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  Speaker 4: abominated by the spirit of the age, then you'll be relevant.
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  Speaker 4: And I'm thinking, I want a group of theological men
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  Speaker 4: trained up, ready to go and say, yes, I'm not
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  Speaker 4: going to preach this part of the Bible that I
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  Speaker 4: know everyone already agrees with, that I know everyone is
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  Speaker 4: already secure on. There is no threat to the people
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  Speaker 4: on this point. Yes, we're going to preach the whole counsel,
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  Speaker 4: but I have the wisdom to say, like the sons
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  Speaker 4: of Issachar, we know the times, and this is a
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  Speaker 4: truth that's under attack. this is where the enemy is
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  Speaker 4: coming in and we're willing to preach God's word there,
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  Speaker 4: think biblically, theologically, and then announce that word.
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  Speaker 3: To God's people.
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  Speaker 1: That's going to be great to have that kind of
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  Speaker 1: thinking and emphasis behind what we're trying to do. I
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  Speaker 1: remember when putting this idea together, Jared and I talked
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  Speaker 1: a lot about it so we were both in.
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  Speaker 2: But the two men that came to mind immediately were
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  Speaker 2: you two guys.
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  Speaker 1: I thought if we could get Tom Nettles, Votie Bauckham
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  Speaker 1: on board with this that will be a clear indication
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  Speaker 1: that God's saying, let's move forward.
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  Speaker 2: And, Bodie, I remember calling you.
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  Speaker 1: You were in Africa, and I usually text you to
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: see if you're available for a phone call, but I
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  Speaker 1: just called you, and you picked it up.
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  Speaker 2: I said, hey, man, here's what we're thinking about.
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  Speaker 1: Would you be on board to help be a founding
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  Speaker 1: faculty member of an institute like this? And your answer
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  Speaker 1: to me was, absolutely. And it was so exciting. It
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  Speaker 1: was so confirming to me. Tell me what you have
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  Speaker 1: in mind, what you anticipate this doing, and why people
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  Speaker 1: should be concerned to come on board with us.
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  Speaker 3: You know one of the things that I have benefited
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  Speaker 3: from greatly living in the last five plus years in
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  Speaker 3: Zambia living outside of the United States, living in another
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  Speaker 3: culture is having an opportunity to really recognize the fruit
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  Speaker 3: of Christian worldview Protestantism, the fruit of a culture that good, bad, ugly,
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  Speaker 3: all of its warts really bears the marks of having
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  Speaker 3: been influenced and impacted by the gospel and by people
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  Speaker 3: who took the gospel seriously and by people, even some
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  Speaker 3: who may not have necessarily taken the gospel as seriously
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  Speaker 3: were sort of catechized in a full-orbed, you know, sort
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  Speaker 3: of Christian worldview that saw everything through that lens. And
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  Speaker 3: being outside of that and seeing what it's like when
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  Speaker 3: you don't have quite as much of the benefit of
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  Speaker 3: that just really made me reflect on, okay, what are
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  Speaker 3: those aspects of public theology that have made an impact,
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  Speaker 3: that have that have made a difference? And how is
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  Speaker 3: it that I can, again, not come here and bring Americanism,
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  Speaker 3: but essentially come here and bring those aspects of public
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  Speaker 3: theology to bear, those aspects of Christian worldview, all of
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  Speaker 3: Christ to all the world for all of life, right?
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  Speaker 3: And so when you called me, that's kind of my wheelhouse.
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  Speaker 3: That's been what I've been trying to think through and
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  Speaker 3: incorporate and be a part of. And I've had the
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  Speaker 3: privilege of being a part of for the last five
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  Speaker 3: plus years. So it just made sense that if that
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  Speaker 3: was going to be happening here, that I'd add my
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  Speaker 3: yay and amen.
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  Speaker 2: Wonderful.
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  Speaker 3: Wonderful.
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  Speaker 2: Man, well, that's great.
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  Speaker 1: It's exciting to think about how God worked in you
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  Speaker 1: in doing that in a different culture and bringing that
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  Speaker 1: to bear now over here as well. Tom, same thing
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  Speaker 1: with you when I called you to talk to you
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  Speaker 1: about this and just was hoping that you would see
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  Speaker 1: some value in it and be willing to consider.
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  Speaker 2: It and jump on board and praise god.
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  Speaker 1: You've done that help us to understand some of your
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  Speaker 1: thought process and what you're envisioning here.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah well i remember when i graduated from college. Margaret
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  Speaker 5: and I had just married. We went out to Southwestern Seminary.
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  Speaker 5: I'd had a lot of struggles with just basic issues
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  Speaker 5: of assurance and how this related to the Christian faith,
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  Speaker 5: and the Lord saved me after my first year in seminary.
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  Speaker 5: And so I became tremendously interested in just, all right,
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  Speaker 5: what happened? Why was I in a church for so
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  Speaker 5: long and really didn't understand what true saving faith was?
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  Speaker 6: I was in involved in the idea that.
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  Speaker 5: Okay, Jesus gives purpose in life, and that's what you
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  Speaker 5: need Jesus for, because you've got to have purpose in life.
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  Speaker 5: And I'd never come to see that I was a
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: sinner in need of a Savior, and that Jesus' death
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  Speaker 5: and resurrection was actually more than just words I could
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  Speaker 5: quote out of the Scripture, but something that was absolutely
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: essential for my life. And so my second year in
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: seminary then, after I'd been converted, I just really immersed
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: myself in the historic understanding of salvation and so forth,
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: and confessions of faith, and Within six weeks, I'd become
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: a full-blown Calvinist.
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  Speaker 6: I read John Dagg and J.P.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: Boyce.
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  Speaker 5: I read the Second London Confession. I saw all these
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: arguments about effectual calling, and I said, hey, that's what
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: happened to me. And so I realized that I had
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: a wonderful pastor, wonderful church coming up.
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  Speaker 6: They loved me.
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  Speaker 5: They kept me from a lot of errors in my life.
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  Speaker 5: But there were certain aspects of confessional theology and of
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: just the... absolute pertinence of the gospel to the condition.
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  Speaker 6: Of man that I had not embraced.
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  Speaker 5: Maybe I heard it set forth soundly, but I didn't
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: really grasp it. And so I became almost just, I
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: just became zealous for the reality that confessions and theology
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: and biblical exposition of a very careful nature that has
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: a doctrinal component always pressed into it is relevant, that
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  Speaker 5: this is what we need. We have to have this
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: in the churches. So I spent my whole professional life
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: basically in theological education at Southwestern, at Mid-America, at Trinity
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: Evangelical Divinity School, and at Southern. I've benefited from all
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: of that. I've had wonderful colleagues and teachers, even those
• 12:18
  Speaker 5: that I disagreed with, like Someone like W.R. Estep, a
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: great Anabaptist scholar, benefited me greatly, although we just really
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: disagreed on the impact of reformed thought. But nevertheless, very beneficial.
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  Speaker 5: But when you begin to think about this, you and
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: Jared begin to think about this, the thing that impressed
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  Speaker 5: me about it and that I think is so valid
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: and so defensible is that this is a an attempt
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  Speaker 5: to offer theological education that has already sort of been
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: through the fire. You've been at the level of the
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  Speaker 5: local church. You've seen the way theology impacts the integrity
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: of the church. You've seen the way it impacts the
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: convictions of your people. And both of you have been
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: very insistent upon having that theological component as a part
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: of your pastoral ministry, as a part of your preaching.
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  Speaker 6: That is what gives steel to the backbone.
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  Speaker 5: That is what allows your people even to reflect on
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: what's going on around them without being sucked into it.
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  Speaker 5: That's what trains them to see this whole idea that
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: they're in a world, they're Christians, But there are competing
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: worldviews out there and they work very subtly and they
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: can bring them in and seek to make them compromise.
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  Speaker 5: But the more doctrine they have learned, the more they
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  Speaker 5: see the way this doctrine impacts all of life, the
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: better prepared they are simply to be a bricklayer within
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: a construction company or a computer programmer in some business somewhere.
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: They begin to see the world in a different way.
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: And so I think that this component of theological education
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: that is focusing on the idea of public theology, and
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  Speaker 5: this arises I'm sure out of your experience with how
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  Speaker 5: it affects your actual church members, The theological seminary is
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: focused on mainly young people who are going out to
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: be pastors. And that's a wonderful ministry. I don't want
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: to do anything at all to diminish from that ministry.
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  Speaker 5: I hope it becomes more and more pure and more
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: and more powerful and more and more successful in what
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: they do. But this particular aspect where people can come,
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  Speaker 5: they're involved in pastoral ministry, they may be feeling sort
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: of overwhelmed by what's going on around them, And then
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: they hear that there is someone actually trying to make
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: practical sense out of this who have been involved in
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: it themselves. And so they can go and they can
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  Speaker 5: get further training. They can begin to expand their comprehensive
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: understanding of the way theology impacts not only the pulpit
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: and their preaching, but the way it's going to, if
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: they do it right, the way it will impact their people.
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: And so to build genuinely Christian people, to have a
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: force in society, that is thoroughly committed not only to
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: personal salvation, which is absolutely important because it's a part
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: of the man once a day and after that the judgment,
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: but to live Christianly. Jared said that we baptize them
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  Speaker 5: in teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
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  Speaker 5: commanded you. That particular aspect is really, really big. And
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: it is what changes the mind and changes the heart
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  Speaker 5: and equips people to be willing to go into hostile
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: places and to die, as both of you illustrated out
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: of Acts last night. And as the first century, second century,
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: third century church before the Constantinian change, I was thinking
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: about someone like Justin Martyr, who was well-trained in.
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: All the philosophies of the day.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: He went through Aristotelian philosophy and Platonic philosophy and all
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: of that and then finally he began to read the
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: gospels and he found that every question he had was
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  Speaker 5: answered within that framework and it just gave him backbone
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  Speaker 5: against everything that would want him to compromise. And so
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  Speaker 5: you have his writing, his apologetic defense of the Christian
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  Speaker 5: faith right in the face of death You have his
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: dialogue with Trifo the Jew in which he's trying to
• 16:19
  Speaker 5: witness to this Jewish community to demonstrate to them that
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: Jesus is the Messiah. And finally, you have his giving
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  Speaker 5: so much opposition at his school there in Rome that
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: he is arrested along with seven others. And they all say, yes,
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  Speaker 5: I believe what Justin has taught me. I'm willing to
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  Speaker 5: go die. And they're all beheaded for the sake of Christ.
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  Speaker 5: I'm not wishing for anyone to be beheaded, but we
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: should all be willing to be beheaded. And it is
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: that kind of, with Justin, he had all of that
• 16:51
  Speaker 5: training in his background, so he knew all the philosophical options.
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  Speaker 5: And when he found Christ, he found that it answered
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  Speaker 5: every question that they had and put layers of supernatural
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  Speaker 5: truth and eternity on top of it. And so he
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: was one of those that was sort of so well
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: trained before he was converted that after he was converted,
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: all of that stuff just played right into his witness
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: for the truth. And so this Institute for Public Theology
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: I see is people perhaps who've been trained within a
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: Protestant environment, who've been trained within Christianity.
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: Have good devotional lives, they love.
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  Speaker 5: The gospel, but they have not had that confrontation with
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: the world that Justin already had and that in a
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: sense the Apostle Paul already had as someone antagonistic to
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: Christian faith. So once he saw Christ, Jesus of Nazareth
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: as the Christ, he was formidable in his defense of
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: those realities and even going into these philosophical environments in
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: Athens and in Corinth and all of that. He knew
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: exactly how he was to approach all of those things.
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  Speaker 5: And that's what I think a lot of pastors and
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: a lot of Christians are wanting. They're wanting to know,
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: all right, I'm convinced the Bible is the Word of God.
• 18:02
  Speaker 5: I'm convinced Jesus died for our sins. I'm convinced that
• 18:05
  Speaker 5: we need to pray, that we need to be conformed
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: to Christ, that we need to live patiently and we
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: need to control our tongues and all of those things.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: But how is it I interact with all of these
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: these intellectual ideas and political ideas that are impinging on
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: us that are really gonna change the way we function.
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: How do I do that?
• 18:24
  Speaker 5: And so I see this as an opportunity to bring
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: these convictions that have been sealed into your minds and
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: that I've seen have been sealed into the minds of
• 18:36
  Speaker 5: people in the past and to bring them and set
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: them within the framework of theological education with all of
• 18:42
  Speaker 5: that background already present.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Amen, brother.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just so, you know, Dr.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: Nettles, I sat under Dr.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: Nettles' teaching, and you were my supervisor through my dissertation
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: work in the amount of history. I know I've told stories,
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: but Dr. Nettles is always down with the microfilm. Is
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: it microfilm or microfiche? Microfiche. And there he is, like,
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: in the belly of the library, and he is finding
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: gold mines and, you know, many I know can feel like, well,
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: that's all that you do is like not Dr. Nettles,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: but the historian, what's a historian do?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Well, the historian lives in.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: The past, right? The, the, uh, these, the, the public people,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: they live in the future and that's so wrong. But
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: when you take this idea and the knowledge that you have, Dr.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: Nettles and the, and you see like these men need stories,
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: we need stories about our heritage. You know, you know, this,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: we talked, we were talking earlier about this, um, being
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: on the right side of history, It's like when the
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: leftists say we're on the right side of history, we
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: don't only say, no we don't care about that, we're
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: on the right side of the Bible.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: That's true. Amen.
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: And should the world fall away, we stand with Christ.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: But you're on the wrong side of history. You don't
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: get to study church history and watch the triumph of
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: Christ and His people and all of these courageous men
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: dying with Christ that He would be glorified in the
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: world And I'm so, I just thank God. I mean,
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: I know you've got a course coming up at the
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Institute just coming this fall. But the glory that is
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: going to be there. I'm attending Church History 1 with Dr.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Nettles. Amen.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, Bodie.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: So tell me what would you hope would be the
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: benefit that would come to a student who would take
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: the full curriculum through the Institute of Public Theology? And
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: what would you love to see that man walk away with?
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: You know, I think the great thing that we're talking
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: about here, the great thing that we're seeing that's resonating
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: among us here is this idea of an unwavering commitment
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: to the truth of the gospel, an unwavering commitment to
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: academic excellence, an unwavering commitment to those important disciplines of
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: the ivory tower without the ivory tower. The idea that
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: the rubber meets the road, the idea that these things
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: are practical, that they are useful. And I think one
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: of the things that we've done is we've created this
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: image in many instances of the pastor where he's either
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: the bookworm who's away in his office, you know, plugging
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: away so he can, you know, do these amazing, you know, expositions, right?
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Or He's the guy who's a man of the people,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you know, who spends his time there. And, you know,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: maybe on Sundays gives you a little surface something, something,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: but he's not. I see the marriage of these things.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I see helping men to understand the significance of theology
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: for life, the significance of history for now. The significance
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: of understanding that there is nothing new under the sun
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: and of understanding that things happened in history because of
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: the consequences of ideas. And things are happening in the
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: present because of the consequences of ideas. And so we
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: need to understand how ideas work. We need to understand
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: how ideas impact the way people live. What that does
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: is it equips us on two fronts. Number one, it
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: equips me to be able to preach the gospel with
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: a view toward equipping people with those ideas for life, right?
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Not just information. But secondly, it equips me to be
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: able to evaluate the ideas that are out there in
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: the public square based upon my understanding that these ideas
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: have consequences. And so I think giving people that two-pronged
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: approach And having men equipped with that and purposefully equipped
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: with that, not just incidentally, right? But purposefully saying, this
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: is what we're equipping you for. And here's why we're
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: equipping you for this. And so that's what I foresee
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: is having men who are useful in a very practical
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: sense because of an unwavering commitment Amen.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: You know, it's been interesting.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: 2020, of course, is a year that'll go down and
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: historians will be talking about for a long time. But
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I've heard people say, boy, this has been the worst.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Year in history.
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, yeah, you know, unless you were alive
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: in 80, 70 or, you know, any other number of years.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Throughout church history.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: And there's something to be said for understanding the work
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: of God throughout history today. with the gospel that he's
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: given us that never changes, with the theology that arises
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: from his word that never changes, that has steeled and
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: strengthened and even invigorated God's people throughout history to live
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the way God's called us to live. And we have
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: been blessed so long in this country in so many ways,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I think it's easy to presume upon God's grace. And
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: when God gives us just a little bitty hint of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: some of the difficulties that our brothers and sisters around
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: the world live with all the time, and throughout history
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: have lived with, or most of the time, that we
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: begin to think, oh no, oh no, what are we
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: going to do now? And it's precisely at this moment
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: that we need to take, and as you said, not
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: make incidental, but highlight, no, this is what the Word says.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: This is what our forefathers have believed. This is how
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: what they believed sustained them through days that were as difficult,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: more difficult, than what we're going through, what we will
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: go through.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: Because that helps.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: That gives a man confidence. some ballast in his ship.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: So when those winds and storms come up, he's not
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: going to be knocked away too far. He's going to
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: stay on course. And I believe that God is assembling
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: in this institute resources for that kind of training to
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: benefit men that will benefit churches, God willing, under his
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: blessing for generations to come.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think it goes back to that whole
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: I think oftentimes about the founding of Harvard. And we
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: talk about this a lot at ACU. The idea that
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: this institution was founded the right way and for the
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: right reasons. And it has gone astray. And there are
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: reasons that it has gone astray. But if you just
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: set that aside for a moment and think about the founding,
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: what happened? You get people who come here and they
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: take care of a couple of things. First, they take
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: care of their houses and their families, right? Secondly, they
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: take care of worship, right? We take care of shelter
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: for our housing, you know, for our families and our housing,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: and then we're going to take care of the worship
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: of God. Then they take care of governance and quickly thereafter,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: They found Harvard. Why do they do that? They do
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: that for posterity. They do that so that generations to
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: come can have well-trained clergy. That's why they did that, right?
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: Well-trained clergy with a view toward what? With a view
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: toward those first three things, taking care of families, taking
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: care of churches, those three institutions that God gave us.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: It wasn't like we got those three institutions that God
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: gave us, now let's go do something academic for some
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: other reason.
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: No.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Let's go do something academic for the preservation of those
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: three institutions under God.
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: And to the glory of God. If the academy has
• 27:17
  Speaker 6: changed and begins to do something Opposite from the original statement.
• 27:21
  Speaker 5: Then that's when you begin to have the crumbling of
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: those things that you've talked about.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: And why did they crumble? They did two things. Number one,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: they divorced the academy from the church. And number two.
• 27:33
  Speaker 6: That's what's important about this particular thing.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Yes. They divorced the academy of the church. That's number one.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: And number two, they divorced the school of divinity from
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: the rest of the university. And so now you have
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: this institution floating out there that doesn't have theological moorings
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: of any kind, that is benefiting from the excellence at
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: its founding, so it continues to grow and it continues
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: to prosper and it continues to flourish. But you've removed
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: those things that remind the institution of why it exists.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: And I think we're seeing that. That's why we need
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: this Institute of Public Theology, because we need to say, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: time out. God has given us those three institutions, and
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: he's given us his word in order to lay the
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: foundation for those three institutions, in order to keep those
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: three institutions connected to their moorings, and in order, when necessary,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: to correct those three institutions. not in order to do
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: something over here that is somehow separated from those three institutions.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: And so I think it's very important for us to
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: do this, not just for the sake of the academic institution,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: but for the sake of the culture at large. which
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: needs to benefit from, be connected to, and be corrected
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: by the truth of the gospel as applied to these institutions.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: Man, that's the motto of the Institute is Christ above
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: all earthly powers. Christ there in theology is the queen
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: of the sciences. And when the point you made about
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: the division of the school of divinity from the university
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: That's when you're done. That is when you're done. Because one, well,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: all of these, what's going to happen to these? They're
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: going to rot.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: And what's going to happen to your school of divinity?
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: It's irrelevant.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: God, therefore, is irrelevant to all the things that I
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: do in my life. I don't need God to understand
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: that two plus two equals four.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, you do.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: I don't need God to understand what's best for our
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: health Yes, you do. And we're experiencing right now in
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: our own land the fruit of having cut off divinity.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: And what does our culture say? Our culture says the
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: church is fine as long as it stays in its lane.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: The church is fine. Go feed the hungry. Go take
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: care of widows and orphans. Go do good things. But
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: stay away from these other institutions. You go exist in
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: this ethereal plane. And you go talk about, you know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: those sorts of things. But don't ever come down to
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: ground level and start trying to interfere with the family,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: you know, with the state, you know, so on and
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: so forth. You know, don't do that. Just stay in
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: your lane. And you can't do that because the God
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: who created the world created the world and everything in it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: And he created it all for his glory. We can't
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: understand what those institutions are apart from God, let alone
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: understand why they exist or have them function properly apart
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: from God. And also the church can't function properly. So
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: you take the school of divinity and you put it
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: over here and you say, you know, you're divorced from this.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: What have we said to the church, to the school
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: of divinity about what its purpose is? We've communicated something
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: that's wrong. It's broken. And so the whole idea of
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: the Institute of Public Theology is about repairing the breach,
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: if you will.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to be teaching this fall a course
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: on pastoral theology. And over the course of my ministry,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: it's become increasingly clear to me that all of life
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: is theological theology. So you don't understand life, you don't
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: engage life rightly if you're not thinking theologically about it
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: because it comes from God. And as you said, you
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: don't get to understand math or anything else if you're
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: not thinking rightly about it in terms of this is
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: God's world, He created math, that's why 2 plus 2
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: does equal 4 and not 5. So with that kind
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: of personal understanding of pastoral ministry, my sense of calling,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: my sense of responsibility has deepened over time and that
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I see my responsibility as a pastor of a local
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: church to not simply study the Scripture and understand it
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and explain it to people, but to help the people
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: that I'm preaching to, that I'm shepherding, to know how
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: to live well in their world. I praise God that
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: He has ordained it and worked it out and given
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: us Scripture to guide us so that I can give
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: myself to this calling and I'm not out being a
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: mechanic and I'm not out having to do other things
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: to make a living and to subdue the earth in
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: other ways. He's called me to do this But the
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: people I shepherd are called to do.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: That and they need help.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: They need guidance from God's Word and God created me
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: to provide that for them. So in this course on
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: public theology or pastoral theology what I'm anticipating doing is
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: trying to help men understand the sense of calling to
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: be a shepherd of God's flock. Recognizing that in that
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: flock there are all kinds of sheep. There are people
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: whom God has put together, equipped, providentially will arrange their
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: lives so that they will have spheres of influence and
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: that they are to carry Christ into those spheres.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: And do their job as to the Lord.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I'm reminded when Luther was asked one time by a cobbler,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: he says, I just really want to serve God.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: He said, go make a good shoe and sell it
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: at a fair price.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: And that's right.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: That kind of thinking that I am making this shoe
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: for God and this is His world and I want
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: to do the very best that I can So pastoral
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: theology is not just, okay, here's how you prepare a sermon,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and here's how you do counseling, and here's how you baptize,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and here's how you do the Lord's Supper.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: All those things are important. All those things are.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Right and good to know how to do well. But
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it is thinking theologically, thinking with a worldview that is
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: grounded in God's Word, understanding that He's given us His
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Word so we live well in His world, and that
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: men would get that and help to explain that to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: others and shepherd a flock so that the congregation gets it.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and they will be equipped and strengthened by the word
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: and the spirit to go.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And live well.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. You know, for so long I had the
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: idea and, and I got this from, from my training
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: and from my experience, I had the idea that the
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: church was a refuge from the world, right? The people
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: of God are out there and they're, they're living their lives. And,
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: and then on the Lord's day, they come and we
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: provide a refuge from the world. so that they can
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: go back out. No, it's not a refuge. It's an armory. Amen. Right?
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: It's an armory. This is where people come to be
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: equipped for the battle. We're not other in that sense.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: We're in the world. We're not of the world, but
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: we're in the world. And so I'm so excited about
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: men being trained from that perspective. I envy them. It
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: reminds me of.
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: A During the downgrade controversy, Spurgeon had a sermon called
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: The Greatest Fight in the World, and one of his
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: sections in that is called The Armory. So it's, yeah,
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: where do we go to be armed for this fight
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: that's happening? Because he saw this is gonna affect not
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: only the churches, not only the theology, but this slide
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: in the downgrade of the changing of Orthodox theology would
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: eventually affect the entire nation and the well-being.
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: Of everyone and so forth.
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: And one of the things, one of the emphases I'm
• 35:45
  Speaker 5: hearing here is, and I heard it last night, I
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: mean there are, the Bible is a big book and
• 35:53
  Speaker 5: it's got a lot of different themes in it. Some
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: of the themes, if you just isolate them to themselves,
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: they don't seem to make sense. Margaret and I are
• 35:59
  Speaker 5: reading through 1 Chronicles right now and the first three
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: chapters is just all these different families in the world.
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: I'm thinking, has anyone ever written a commentary on this?
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: And name after name after name that I could not
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: pronounce and wondering, but then you begin to get into
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: the ideas of divine providence that is set within First
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: Chronicles and you begin to see some of these names
• 36:20
  Speaker 5: come back and you realize that it's setting forth a
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: reality that Israel was a country. I mean, these were
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: people that went there and all these families populated that
• 36:31
  Speaker 5: country and these moved to this place and then these
• 36:33
  Speaker 5: people attacked them and took it over and had it
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: for this long and then these others came in and
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: then the family of one of the sons of Reuben
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: came in and did this and Reuben was not given
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: a part of the land because of what he did
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: to his father's concubine and you begin to put all
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: this together and you begin to see that it's building
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: up this deep, awesome sense of of divine providence. And
• 36:58
  Speaker 5: so there's nothing in the Bible that is irrelevant. If
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: you isolate certain things like that, I would not want
• 37:03
  Speaker 5: to preach on 1 Corinthians 2.1 or something like, I
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: mean 1 Chronicles, 1 Chronicles just 2.1. I want to
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: see it within the framework of what happened. And so
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: I go and I see what happened to Tamar and
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: then realize, but she's in the line of Christ. And
• 37:21
  Speaker 5: then what happened to the daughters of Lot and Moab
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: is born.
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: And then Ruth is a Moabitess.
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: And then you begin to see all these things come together.
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: And so I never want to deemphasize the doctrine of
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: the cross, the doctrine of the resurrection, the intercession of Christ.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: I want to hold those up. But I also want
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: to see it as a part of the whole fabric
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: of the world. Jesus comes within the framework of a
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: providential arrangement of massive movements within society where He's controlling
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: it for His glory, for the good of His people.
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: And the more we understand about the pervasive way in
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: which God operates that culminates in the ascension of Christ
• 38:06
  Speaker 5: to to have the session for his people. We see
• 38:11
  Speaker 5: all of these things working for that. And if there's
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: a perspective that we can bring that is thoroughly biblical,
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: that's not really governed by political things that are going
• 38:22
  Speaker 5: on now, though that may be something that prompts us
• 38:25
  Speaker 5: to think more creatively about this. But if we just
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: see it in the Bible, we see that this is
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: what the Bible is about. And so an institute for
• 38:33
  Speaker 5: public theology is saying that these clear truths that we
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: hold with great affection and with great conviction about the
• 38:45
  Speaker 5: inerrancy of Scripture and the substitutionary atonement, the resurrection of Christ,
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: all of these things are a part of a fabric
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: of the world that God made and that God controlled
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: and that they're not theologically insignificant. So when I'm reading
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: First Chronicles and I'm seeing this list of families, I
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: may sort of say, well, I'm glad that chapter's over,
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: but I've got to realize that God has put it
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: there for a reason because all these things happened within
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: a context where people were, where a nation was being
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: built with all of these different ethical and military kinds
• 39:28
  Speaker 5: of impingements going on within the society, and Jesus comes
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: out of that. And so that's how we need to
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: learn to see the great truths of the faith in
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: the light of this complete... commitment to the fact that
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: we are predestined according to the purpose of Him who
• 39:49
  Speaker 5: works all things after the counsel of His own will.
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: And to get people to think about that and to
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: see themselves as a part of that whole story like that,
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: I think is an important aspect of it.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Jared, you're going to be teaching on preaching. So how
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: are you thinking about preaching? How do men need to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: be thinking about preaching in light of what's going on
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: in the world and what their calling is.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: You know we need to, one of the hopes I
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: have for this institute is that it gets rid of
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: some of our false dichotomies.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: And so Dr.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Nels you just mentioned as you said we have the
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: atonement of Christ and I don't want to take away
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: from the atonement of Christ but I want to see
• 40:29
  Speaker 4: this providential arrangement of God in the world and that
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: He works all things according to the counsel of His will.
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: And there is a tendency in us to think that's
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: a some of these are pitted against each other. The
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: atonement of Christ to the gospel and then this providence
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: arrangement of God, but they're not. It's a false dichotomy.
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: In preaching it's the same way. There's this tendency to think,
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: well I can preach the atonement. I can preach gospel.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: Or I can deal with cultural realities of the moment,
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: the hot button issues. You have to choose which one.
• 41:05
  Speaker 4: Well no, you don't choose which one.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: You can't.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: You can't think like that when you're preaching God's Word.
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: Because the cultural realities are consequences of ideas which are
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: contrary to Christ, these vain philosophies that can take people captive.
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: And so I have a bad reputation now for kneecapping
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: Disney princesses in my sermons. Now I say it in
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: the congregation. I get texts from members afterwards. But I
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: can't help think that there are so many bad ideas.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: And I always go after Elsa and Frozen. Because the idea...
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: I mean, Elsa and Frozen... When she sings her Let
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: It Go song, there's nothing other than Why Liberalism Failed
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: by Patrick Deneen. He wrote this great book about the
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: reworking of freedom. The collapse of the very nature of
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: freedom in our land, in America. And then the notion
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: that everybody buys into because what does she sing in
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: her song? No right, no wrong, no rules for me,
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: I'm free. And I say, is that freedom? Is freedom
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: to be free from all rules?
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Of course it's not.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: And that should come up just instinctively When you hear
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: that sin shall have no dominion over us and that
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: Jesus is the liberator, when the Son sets you free
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: you'll be free indeed. Well I know that many of
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: our people have been discipled by Elsa about the very
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: nature of freedom and now I'm trying to preach to
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: you about the freedom of Christ and you're starting to
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: think that it's the.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Freedom from law. Whoa! No!
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: So we're preaching Christ, we're preaching God's Word but you
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: have to be aware of where your people are. You
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: know the necessity and capacity of the hearer we talk
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: about is the Westminster Catechism, right? And so you have
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: to be, these things are not, don't buy into the
• 42:52
  Speaker 4: false dichotomy. So the preaching course, what I want to
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: do with this is, I think we're going to title it,
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: That the World May Know. There is a God in
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: heaven and this is His world.
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: He created it.
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: And not only did He create it, but then He spoke.
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: And He speaks through creation and general revelation. He speaks
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: through the prophets and the apostles through special revelation. And
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: your job is to take that special revelation and to
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: proclaim it in the world so that this world might
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: know that there is a God in Heaven. And of course,
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: that's going to be pastorally. Again, you think, well, is
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: it just going to be about evangelism or is it
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: just going to be about shepherding the church?
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: Well, it's both.
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: That's what the Word of God does. Every sermon is
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: that way. And knowing the times, knowing the threats that
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: are coming upon the people of God, and then bringing
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: that word to bear. Rightly expositing it, and then rightly
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: applying it to the people. And when you really preach
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: that way, what courage it takes. You cannot get in
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: the pulpit now and not be offending people. You just
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: can't do it with the spirit of the age that
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: is around us. And that's going to take courage. And
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: I A concern is that we found a way, not
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: only has there been a detaching of the school of
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: divinity from the university, but in that, then the pastors
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: that have been trained up in that school of divinity
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: that's detached have found a way to kind of preach
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: at 10,000 feet. And so rather than saying, no, here's
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: the Word of God, it's exposited, you can see it
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: in the text, and here's the Here's the application to
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: personal heart and mind, individuals, and then applied in family,
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: applied in your vocation, applied rejecting the false ideologies that
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: are threatening the church in every direction.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: It's crazy. We accept that ideology from Elsa, even though Frozen,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: the movie, Proves her wrong in the end. I know.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: I know. We were talking about this the other day.
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: She's in a bad way in the movie.
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: She's running away from her responsibilities from the kingdom. But
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: we've taken that song in our culture.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's the one we remember. That's the one
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: we remember. And I'm like, bro, y'all didn't even watch
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: the rest of the film.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: You guys are much more culturally relevant than I am.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: We just have little kids in the house.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: I said, we do biblical counseling in our house.
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: So you have to watch this with them, don't you?
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: Don't believe that.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: I tell our people, I said, I don't have any
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: problem watching the movies. I just say, we do biblical
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: counseling in our house. So we pause, and then we
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: look at the kid and say, okay, find the idol
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: of the heart, replace it with a promise.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: What's wrong with Elsa? Let's talk about it. Okay, play again.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: So, Vody, what are you going to be doing in
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: your cultural apologetics course?
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: All of this. The cultural apologetics course. So if somebody
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: takes your course, they get to come sit in on
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: a conversation like this. Yeah, they get to sit in
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: on a conversation like this. This is the essence of
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: what we're doing. And I think, really, this sort of
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: synthesizes what the Institute of Public Theology is all about.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: this whole idea that our job is not just to
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: preach in the abstract. Our job is not just to
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: do history or theology in the abstract. Our job is
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: to do that within the context of not just culture,
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: but within the context of a cultural battle. And Jared,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: you said something earlier about that moment in time when
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: everybody was about the city and the God of the city.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: But here's the problem with that. The way that manifested itself,
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: especially with the younger generation, was we are going to
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: bring Jesus to the city by making Jesus what the
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: city is. We're going to get the tattoos. We're going
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: to go to the bar. We're going to go to
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: the right. That was what everybody did. They basically wanted
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: to show that Jesus can wear the skin of the
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: sinful city, right? That's the wrong way around. In cultural apologetics,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: what we're recognizing is culture is not neutral. That's the
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: first thing. Culture is not neutral. Secondly, God is not
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: unconcerned about culture. He's the one who creates culture. He
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: gives us the cultural mandate, right? God gives us the
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: cultural mandate. Culture is not neutral. Thirdly, there is a
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: battle in the marketplace of ideas that And in the
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: marketplace of ideas, what we're doing is this, because you
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: don't have an option as to whether or not to
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: do culture. Everybody's doing culture. Everybody's trying to subdue the
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: earth in their own way. Everybody's trying to exercise dominion
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: in their own way. You don't have an option as
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: to whether or not you do culture. Where the option
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: comes in is to whether or not you will submit
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: your efforts to do culture to the one who created culture.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: And so this idea of cultural neutrality that, you know,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: cultures are neutral. There's not culture that's better than another. No, no, no, no,
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: absolutely not. Because cultures either adhere to the biblical mandates
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: of the one who created culture, or they rebel against
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: the biblical mandates of the one who created culture. So
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: our job is to bring all of these things in
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: line under the Lordship of Christ, and to recognize that
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: this is not just what we're doing in the here
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: and now, but ultimately, this is the way that all
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: of history works out, right? We got creation, we got fall,
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: we got redemption, and we got consummation. That's not just
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: in terms of lost sinners. That's in terms of everything.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: Paul says creation is groaning in in anticipation of this redemption.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: And at the end of the book, what do we have?
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: The tree again, the garden again, the rivers again, right?
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: These things that Adam was supposed to cultivate, he fails.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: But the last Adam is going to cultivate those things.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: And those of us who are found in the last
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Adam are going to cultivate those things. And we're going
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: to spend eternity cultivating those things. Not as disembodied spirits
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: playing harps on clouds. right? Disembodied spirits can't play harps anyway.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: And so, you know, but, but, but as people who
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: have been redeemed spiritually, who have redeemed bodies and a
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: redeemed new heaven and a redeemed new earth cultivating. And
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: so we're, we're, we're, we're doing all of this, not just,
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: you know, here's some different worldviews, here's some different ideas,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: but this overarching meta-narrative of, and how we find ourselves
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: in this overarching meta-narrative and how we do culture and
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: evaluate culture in the midst of this overarching meta-narrative. Again,
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: not in the sense of the so-called, you know, culture
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: wars as we think about them, right? Which ultimately is, well,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: there's a quest for political power. These people have political power.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: We want political power. So we're going to go to
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: war with them over political power. No, absolutely not. Because
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: Jesus didn't ride on the backs of donkeys or elephants.
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: Lions will eat donkeys and elephants, right? He's not here
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: to take sides. He's here to take over. And so
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: this is what we're doing in this whole idea of
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: cultural apologetics.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Well, I know I now have two courses I need
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: to take.
• 50:54
  Speaker 5: Well, let me just ask a question that The Institute
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: of Public Theology is the ministry of Founders Ministries, it's
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: connected with the local church. We've been talking about the
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: division of the divinity school from the university.
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: How will the.
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: Institute of Public Theology address that reality of the division?
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: Because this is not connected with the university, but it
• 51:20
  Speaker 5: has those kinds of concerns. And so in your minds,
• 51:24
  Speaker 5: how is this going to help in a sense of
• 51:29
  Speaker 5: reconnecting the minds of those who come with the reality
• 51:35
  Speaker 5: that the university should not be separated from the school
• 51:38
  Speaker 5: of divinity, that in a sense they need each other
• 51:41
  Speaker 5: to keep the proper worldview, to keep the proper comprehensive
• 51:44
  Speaker 5: intellectual ideas present in the divinity school, and to keep
• 51:48
  Speaker 5: the idea that God is in control of these things
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: within the other academic curriculum. So how does the Institute
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: of Public Theology How is it going to help cement
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: those two together?
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: The way you worded it was very helpful.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: I'll tell you the first thing that comes to mind
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: is when we talk about the separation of the divinity
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: school from the university, the divinity.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: School should have said no.
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: It's the divinity school who's responsible. Because the theology is
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: the queen of the sciences. Meaning while we are not
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: going to be experts in all of these various fields,
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: it was the divinity school who is responsible for that
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: happening because the divinity school ought to have said Jesus
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Christ really is above all earthly powers.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: And therefore we teach.
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: These subjects, every one of these subjects in light of
• 52:48
  Speaker 4: a Christian ethic that is then applied to the whole world.
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: And so it's going to be in the, it's not
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: like you need to, the Divinity School needs to be
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: the university. No, but you won't be able to take
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: what Votie just said about cultural apologetics. You're going to
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: be tying in the Christian life in every one of
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: these courses. Even in history, as you deal with church history,
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: there's going to be cultural realities that are observed and
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: then watching how the church stood against those cultural realities
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: and then advanced the right kind of cultural realities in history,
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: that that will then, you know, you're going to see
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: the errors that are there. So I don't think the
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: Institute will need to necessarily have particular courses like that,
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: but what it's going to do is orient every one
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: of these classes and show the relevance and significance for
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: all of life.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: I think, too, this is.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: We're doing this apart from the what is now traditional
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: academic theological mold. So we're not trying to fulfill any
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: expectations that that mold has, rather looking at the good
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: things in there, taking it and trying to teach it
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: with the understanding of just what Jared said, that this
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: applies to all of life. And so I could see
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: where a university might emerge from this, that this could
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: spawn something that would expand beyond just teaching.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: The theological disciplines.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: But it is saying, yeah, we want to do more
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: than what has been done. Praise God for the good
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: things that have been done over there. But we see
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: some areas that need to be addressed head-on as a
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: matter of first importance, and we think we can do
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: it this way. Yeah.
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: So you want to.
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: So the idea is, if you start with the worldview,
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: if you start with Christian theology, if you start with
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: seeing that it's expensive.
• 54:47
  Speaker 6: nature into other things. If that leads to the teaching.
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: Of other courses, that'll be good, but it will be
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: under the umbrella that has been established of speaking to
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: all of these things in light of God as creator,
• 55:02
  Speaker 5: man as fallen, God as redeemer, God as the one
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: who brings all things to consummation, to his glory, and
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: so we're working under that framework, seeking to do all things,
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: seeking to subdue everything to his glory, and if other
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: disciplines begin to emerge as relevant to this overall study
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: of divinity and theology, then that's fine.
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: That'll be connected.
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: It would be my hope that we could see a
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: classical Christian university, much like what Votie's doing with ACU,
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: spring out of this.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: Spring out of.
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: The recovery of the school of divinity and and then
• 55:42
  Speaker 4: springing out of that recovery of a school of divinity
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: that understands all of Christ for all of life, springs
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: out again a healthy university, a real university, some kind
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: of classical Christian university.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I could see that.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: So Tom, tell us about the church history course you're
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: going to be teaching and what you hope to accomplish
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: in that.
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: Well, in the fall I'm teaching Church History I, as
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: I understand it, which is a large part of it
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: has to do with exactly this kind of conflict that
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: we're talking about. It's the church coming into the world,
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: the church, the revelation that comes in Christ, the completion
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: of all of the prophecies in the New Covenant. And
• 56:23
  Speaker 5: so it's a radical, in one sense, a radical separation
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: of the redefinition of the people of God from every tongue,
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: every tribe, every nation. It is establishing pockets of faithfulness
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: in the churches that are willing to suffer, that are
• 56:42
  Speaker 5: willing to die for this truth. And we see as
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: it happens, we see that more and more this willingness
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: to die and this alternate truth that they have that
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: comes from Revelation begins to dominate and it shows the
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: complete emptiness of the idolatry that is present, the paganism
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: that is present, the apologetics as well as the living
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: both change that And then we begin to see some
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: of the good results of that perhaps in someone like Augustine,
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: although there are certain things that we want to point
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: out where I think he was erroneous, wanting to use
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: the sword against the Donatists and seeking to have an
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: oppressive regime coming in, establishing religion not by the preaching
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: of the word and not by conversion but by the
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: power of the state. Now that doesn't accomplish what we
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: want to either. And then we see the world sort
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: of taking over the church, that sees the church as
• 57:36
  Speaker 5: the cement to the empire. It sees the church as
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: the only thing that can hold things together. And so
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: you have whole pagan tribes being converted at once and
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: baptized with palm branches and all, and they bring in
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: their basically their pagan.
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: Worldviews, but they just sort of cloak it in the religion.
• 57:56
  Speaker 5: And gradually some of them are really converted, some of
• 57:59
  Speaker 5: them really become genuine Christians, and so it's out of
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: that then that you have the Reformation coming within the
• 58:06
  Speaker 5: framework of the Saxons who were sort of converted by
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: the sword by Charlemagne. So you have to understand the
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: providence of God in all of these things, just like
• 58:15
  Speaker 5: we talked about earlier. But you also have to see
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: the danger of when the church ceases to be a
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: leaven and a judge within society, when it seeks to
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: embrace the world as its rightful domain in the sense
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: that it wants to use the powers of the world.
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: We cannot forsake holiness, we cannot forsake revealed truth, we
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: cannot forsake the gospel as something that needs to be
• 58:44
  Speaker 5: preached for the conversion of people. But we can do
• 58:48
  Speaker 5: all of that realizing that just as you were talking
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: about earlier, make good shoes and sell them at a
• 58:53
  Speaker 5: fair price. You can see the power of the gospel
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: permeating a society. And so both the persecution of the
• 59:01
  Speaker 5: church by the government is something that we want.
• 59:04
  Speaker 6: To fight against.
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: Also the absorbing of the church by the government so
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: that it changes and dilutes its message and makes the
• 59:15
  Speaker 5: church focus on things that it was not designed to
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: focus on. Both of those realities are so present within, say,
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: the first 1400 years that of Christian history that I
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: hope I can make that clear in this class as
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: we look at all the wonderful people that we'll talk
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: about and we'll try to set their stories within the
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: framework of the development of theology and with the framework
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: of the development of how the church and the world interact.
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Well, brothers, again, I can't tell you how excited I
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: am about this institute and the fact that we're laboring
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: together in it. I believe God will do wonderful things
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: through this. So thank you so much for your participation.