Latest / Creating The Perfect Experience / Experiential Exchange Series: How Saying "No" Drives Success

Transcript

Experiential Exchange Series: How Saying "No" Drives Success · Creating The Perfect Experience

• 0:03
  Staci Hallmon: But also, what is your what are your revenue expectations?
• 0:07
  Mark Testa: Because you're dealing with that.
• 0:08
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 0:09
  Staci Hallmon: For my business, I'm always dealing with a client who has an expectation.
• 0:13
  Mark Testa: All right.
• 0:13
  Mark Testa: So today we're trying something new.
• 0:15
  Mark Testa: We're calling it the Experiential Exchange, a discussion with two returning powerhouses and events, Stacy and Adrian.
• 0:24
  Mark Testa: And we'll talk a little bit about who they are in a second if you don't remember.
• 0:27
  Mark Testa: It's about topics that we consider important to us.
• 0:30
  Mark Testa: First, I want to introduce Stacy.
• 0:33
  Mark Testa: Stacy Holman is the founder and chief experiential architect for SHBE Group.
• 0:40
  Mark Testa: Stacy is a brand strategist who has spent her career helping brands truly understand their audience.
• 0:45
  Mark Testa: As she says, she's monetizing memory making.
• 0:49
  Mark Testa: Also, we have Adrian, a returning guest.
• 0:52
  Mark Testa: Adrian Mellon is she's the owner and founder of Propeller.
• 0:55
  Mark Testa: Adrienne brings her big creative ideas into operational reality.
• 1:00
  Mark Testa: Together, Adrian, Stacy, and myself represent over 60 years of experience.
• 1:05
  Mark Testa: We were talking about this conversation, and as we've gotten uh more experience through the years, we used to say pretty much yes and figure it out to everything.
• 1:14
  Mark Testa: But as we have uh grown, we have discovered something new has happened.
• 1:19
  Mark Testa: So in this conversation, we'll look at why the most successful event professionals and leaders are the ones not saying yes to everything, but rather they have to understand and say no for the more clarity, intention, and confidence.
• 1:32
  Mark Testa: Let's put this in context.
• 1:34
  Mark Testa: Um so we were defining the moments in your career when you were saying no actually changed an outcome of a project.
• 1:40
  Mark Testa: Can each of you describe a moment where you're like, you know, wow, I it it really was not beneficial to say yes, but it was actually beneficial to say no.
• 1:49
  Mark Testa: And it it may not have been recent, it may have been early in career.
• 1:52
  Mark Testa: Um, we'll start with Stacey.
• 1:54
  Staci Hallmon: I will share a story where I didn't say no.
• 1:58
  Staci Hallmon: Um and I knew every part of my core was saying, like, no, don't make that decision.
• 2:04
  Staci Hallmon: And it was actually tied to like the right vendor to hire.
• 2:08
  Staci Hallmon: Um and I knew like there was leadership, you know, around that was putting their finger on the scale of like a certain vendor.
• 2:17
  Staci Hallmon: I was like, but they're actually not qualified for this project.
• 2:21
  Mark Testa: So they were pushing you to use this particular vendor.
• 2:23
  Staci Hallmon: And you know, pushing um they would probably argue, but you know, it's recommending it's the it's the subtle things that are like said and and and shared.
• 2:34
  Staci Hallmon: And I was like, okay, like I remembered the moment I was sending the email to confirm which vendor we were gonna go through, and uh I was, you know, it was work from home time, yeah, and a friend said, like, what's going on with you?
• 2:46
  Staci Hallmon: Like you've been like stuck like in mid, you know, motion.
• 2:49
  Staci Hallmon: And I was like, I should be saying no, but I'm I'm gonna say yes.
• 2:52
  Staci Hallmon: And it greatly impacted not just the outcome of the event and the experience, it also impacted all the teens that had to touch it.
• 3:03
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 3:04
  Staci Hallmon: Everybody felt like they were being dragged down or dragged into just um I don't know, this is the best way I can see this is a level of mediocrity.
• 3:15
  Staci Hallmon: Um and that is not to say that maybe this vendor would not have been great at something else.
• 3:21
  Staci Hallmon: In fact, I know they would have been great at some other things.
• 3:23
  Staci Hallmon: You know, there were so many nuances that were happening in that time, and I needed a real expert and not someone that was learning on the job.
• 3:30
  Staci Hallmon: So, in fairness, right, you know, um the no was more valuable to everyone.
• 3:35
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah, but there was a clear finger on the scale for the yes.
• 3:40
  Mark Testa: What if you had said no to the client, do you think they would have gone along with it, or was it not an option?
• 3:48
  Staci Hallmon: Um, I don't know.
• 3:49
  Staci Hallmon: You know, I I would like to believe to make my story true for me that they would have pushed back.
• 3:56
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 3:56
  Staci Hallmon: Um, but maybe they would not have, right?
• 3:59
  Staci Hallmon: And so um now I can think about I can tell that story when I'm rushing for my no.
• 4:07
  Staci Hallmon: Right, right.
• 4:08
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 4:08
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 4:08
  Mark Testa: You have that history now to say, well, this, if you do this, this is what happened before.
• 4:12
  Mark Testa: And you can disagree with me, but I've been down this road.
• 4:17
  Mark Testa: But the three words are in my experience.
• 4:20
  Adrianne Mellen: Yes.
• 4:20
  Adrianne Mellen: Absolutely.
• 4:22
  Mark Testa: You have that ability now to say, Yeah, we've done this long enough to say it's happened and this is this is what could happen.
• 4:29
  Mark Testa: You may disagree with me.
• 4:31
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 4:31
  Mark Testa: All right, same thing with you, Adrian.
• 4:32
  Adrianne Mellen: Well, and that's such a valid point too, Mark, because when you're earlier in your career, earlier in starting your business, um, when you don't have that experience of the power of no, it is harder to say no because you you can't stand firm, firm, firm, firmly saying, I know because I've done that.
• 4:52
  Mark Testa: It's just a feeling.
• 4:54
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 4:54
  Adrianne Mellen: It's just a feeling.
• 4:55
  Adrianne Mellen: And it's harder to explain the no when it's just a feeling versus it's a no because of X, Y, and Z.
• 5:02
  Adrianne Mellen: I think one of the hardest no's is when that project comes across your, you know, your desk to you, et cetera.
• 5:12
  Adrianne Mellen: I think really cool project.
• 5:14
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 5:14
  Adrianne Mellen: You know what I mean?
• 5:15
  Adrianne Mellen: Like you're like, oh my gosh, this is a dream.
• 5:18
  Adrianne Mellen: So my story is I uh this was several years ago.
• 5:24
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, a client had come to me very last minute and said, hey, listen, we want to send you to the Super Bowl.
• 5:30
  Adrianne Mellen: And we want you to, you know, do this project for us at the Super Bowl.
• 5:34
  Adrianne Mellen: And I was like, oh my gosh, what?
• 5:38
  Adrianne Mellen: The Super Bowl?
• 5:39
  Adrianne Mellen: Like, are you kidding me?
• 5:40
  Adrianne Mellen: That's like apex level work for this client.
• 5:44
  Adrianne Mellen: Meanwhile, I already had a long-term project over the same weekend.
• 5:48
  Adrianne Mellen: I had another long-term project that was the following week.
• 5:53
  Adrianne Mellen: And when I sat down and looked at it, no matter how cool that was and how honored and how much that would have really stroked my ego, it would not have been fair to myself.
• 6:05
  Adrianne Mellen: It would not have been fair to my team, and it really would not have been fair to my other clients who gave me plenty of time and leeway to actually do a good job for them.
• 6:14
  Adrianne Mellen: And so that was a really tough no.
• 6:16
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 6:17
  Adrianne Mellen: It's a tough no.
• 6:18
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 6:18
  Adrianne Mellen: It's a tough no when you want to do it.
• 6:20
  Mark Testa: Yeah, there are a lot of tough no's.
• 6:21
  Mark Testa: I I agree with you.
• 6:22
  Mark Testa: But similarly to you, you know, I think one of the criteria that I use for something you really, really want.
• 6:29
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 6:30
  Mark Testa: There's projects you're like, I really and it's always about time for me more than anything.
• 6:34
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 6:34
  Mark Testa: You a project you really want.
• 6:36
  Mark Testa: Um if it impacts the existing project that because here's somebody, here's another client that may have, or an individual who's actually uh contracted you ahead of time.
• 6:47
  Mark Testa: They've given you the budgets, they've given you everything in the research, and they've played by the rules.
• 6:51
  Mark Testa: Yes.
• 6:52
  Mark Testa: And then some of them you already said you already said yes if I'm swaying.
• 6:55
  Mark Testa: I'm like, we could do it, we could do it.
• 6:56
  Mark Testa: And then you're like, but will it affect our existing client?
• 6:59
  Mark Testa: And then at the end of the day, you have two unhappy clients.
• 7:01
  Mark Testa: They're like, maybe just deal with deal with the one life and continues with that, even though it's great.
• 7:08
  Mark Testa: I mean, it's like the not all these things are bad.
• 7:10
  Mark Testa: They just they just don't always work out.
• 7:11
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 7:12
  Adrianne Mellen: And and the other thing that comes with that too is that a lot of what we do is training our clients to play by the role.
• 7:19
  Adrianne Mellen: Yes.
• 7:20
  Adrianne Mellen: And to really understand how um, you know, the process of events work and what we need and this and that.
• 7:28
  Adrianne Mellen: And when we throw those sort of values out the window, yeah, because either we want that client or we want that project or we want that feather in our cap, we're basically training them that we will say yes to last minute, which is very hard.
• 7:42
  Adrianne Mellen: Which and you can't pull that back.
• 7:44
  Adrianne Mellen: And you cannot pull that back.
• 7:45
  Adrianne Mellen: The only thing that we can't buy is time.
• 7:47
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 7:47
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 7:48
  Mark Testa: Correct.
• 7:49
  Adrianne Mellen: And maybe some expertise.
• 7:50
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 7:51
  Mark Testa: When looking at a new project, are there anything that outside of uh you know impacting another client or something that's a red flag?
• 7:59
  Mark Testa: They like it it's not right.
• 8:02
  Mark Testa: You know, unrealistic budget.
• 8:04
  Mark Testa: Unrealistic budget.
• 8:05
  Adrianne Mellen: Unrealistic budget, always.
• 8:07
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 8:08
  Staci Hallmon: Operations and finance for me.
• 8:09
  Staci Hallmon: Yes.
• 8:10
  Staci Hallmon: Um for yourself or for them.
• 8:14
  Staci Hallmon: For the for the client, right?
• 8:15
  Staci Hallmon: Is from a finance standpoint, if the budget doesn't align with what you're looking to execute, that's a huge red flag.
• 8:23
  Staci Hallmon: But also, what is your what are your revenue expectations?
• 8:26
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 8:28
  Mark Testa: You're dealing with that.
• 8:28
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 8:29
  Staci Hallmon: So I for for my business, I'm always dealing with a client who has an expectation of exchange around their investment.
• 8:36
  Staci Hallmon: Right, right.
• 8:36
  Staci Hallmon: Am I selling tickets?
• 8:37
  Staci Hallmon: Am I selling merch?
• 8:38
  Staci Hallmon: Am I uh what is my business infrastructure?
• 8:41
  Staci Hallmon: So if the finances don't match the out outcome expectations, that's a red flag.
• 8:46
  Staci Hallmon: And the other is not just operational expertise, but operational understanding.
• 8:52
  Staci Hallmon: As you mentioned, we're training our clients.
• 8:54
  Staci Hallmon: And so if all of your expectations are tied to your unawareness around how this business works, then that is going to impact our ability to be operationally sound.
• 9:04
  Staci Hallmon: Um and you know, we talk about um, you know, one of the mantras in your business is uh we make magic, you know, and I talk about you know monetizing memory making.
• 9:15
  Staci Hallmon: Um which ultimately there are bad memories that can happen as a result in an event.
• 9:23
  Staci Hallmon: And you know, all magic ain't good.
• 9:25
  Staci Hallmon: So you know, that's where those decisions for me come from.
• 9:30
  Staci Hallmon: It's like, you know, can we can we monetize this memory making to where they are wonderful memories for years to come?
• 9:36
  Staci Hallmon: Sure.
• 9:37
  Staci Hallmon: Um and you know, are we making memorable magic as well?
• 9:40
  Staci Hallmon: So um those are red flags, operations and finance.
• 9:43
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 9:44
  Mark Testa: Yeah, I same thing for me.
• 9:46
  Mark Testa: It's like, you know, red flags.
• 9:47
  Mark Testa: It and budget's always a thing.
• 9:49
  Mark Testa: I mean, look, and and sometimes going back to time, but budget can be less if uh if the time's right.
• 9:54
  Mark Testa: You give me, you know, six months to do something, I can negotiate.
• 9:58
  Mark Testa: We can negotiate a little bit.
• 9:58
  Mark Testa: It sounds like a line.
• 10:00
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 10:00
  Mark Testa: It's so way off.
• 10:01
  Mark Testa: Yep.
• 10:02
  Mark Testa: You know, like you've never done this.
• 10:03
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 10:04
  Mark Testa: Yep.
• 10:04
  Mark Testa: You know, you guys, you know, sometimes you go back and say, well, here's the reality.
• 10:07
  Mark Testa: And you come back and say, hey, here's this is what this really should cost.
• 10:10
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 10:11
  Adrianne Mellen: Definitely.
• 10:11
  Adrianne Mellen: You know.
• 10:12
  Mark Testa: Um so you can kind of go back and forth.
• 10:15
  Mark Testa: But you know, we've gotten to the point now, it's like, you know, trying to figure out what people's um end goal is.
• 10:22
  Mark Testa: You you're talking about monetizing.
• 10:23
  Mark Testa: For us, we may be doing you want a lot of people, or you want to make, you know, want social media, want influencers to be up, yeah.
• 10:30
  Mark Testa: What do you really need to try to get to, and we've gone through I'm looking across the table to somebody on our team.
• 10:35
  Mark Testa: Um, it's like, what does the client really want?
• 10:38
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 10:38
  Mark Testa: And sometimes you almost have to drag it out of them because we may have missed the mark on some stuff just because we thought they wanted one thing, but they really wanted something else.
• 10:48
  Mark Testa: Yes.
• 10:49
  Mark Testa: Even though there's nothing wrong with the event, it's nothing wrong with the project.
• 10:51
  Mark Testa: They just had something else in mind.
• 10:54
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Staci Hallmon: Goal setting is a huge, huge, a huge part of it.
• 10:57
  Staci Hallmon: I think one, it's a red flag if they can't set goals.
• 11:00
  Staci Hallmon: I really don't have tangible goals that they can share with you.
• 11:03
  Staci Hallmon: Other than I wanted to be a great event.
• 11:04
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 11:05
  Staci Hallmon: You work that a lot.
• 11:06
  Staci Hallmon: Just want to be great.
• 11:06
  Mark Testa: It's just awareness.
• 11:07
  Mark Testa: I'm like, well, you need a little more.
• 11:08
  Mark Testa: I need a more than that.
• 11:09
  Adrianne Mellen: What is a great event mean to you?
• 11:10
  Adrianne Mellen: How are you measuring that?
• 11:11
  Adrianne Mellen: Tell me when what's the feeling?
• 11:13
  Adrianne Mellen: It it sometimes is dragging it out of them because they truly don't know.
• 11:18
  Adrianne Mellen: They think a great event is the measure of success.
• 11:20
  Adrianne Mellen: And it's like, that is subjective.
• 11:23
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 11:24
  Mark Testa: And and it may not, they may not be that person.
• 11:26
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 11:26
  Mark Testa: You know, you they they may be the event person or the marketing person, but there may be somebody up in a corporate because we all deal with corporate corporate.
• 11:33
  Mark Testa: You will you deal with some wedding people.
• 11:35
  Mark Testa: You still do that?
• 11:35
  Mark Testa: Spend years.
• 11:36
  Mark Testa: Spend years.
• 11:37
  Adrianne Mellen: Spend years, although I am her hire for the right project.
• 11:40
  Mark Testa: For the right wedding.
• 11:41
  Mark Testa: You know, it we've also learned too, the the person we're dealing with doesn't have the answer.
• 11:47
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 11:48
  Mark Testa: It could be somebody else.
• 11:49
  Mark Testa: And then you find out later on that that person's CFO or CDO.
• 11:52
  Mark Testa: Two different answers that they y'all need to make sure you're speaking with the right person.
• 11:55
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 11:56
  Mark Testa: And it's and and and that's one of the red flags of my that we've come across is are we speaking to the right person?
• 12:02
  Mark Testa: Right?
• 12:04
  Mark Testa: Yep.
• 12:04
  Mark Testa: A good one.
• 12:05
  Mark Testa: Oh, yeah.
• 12:05
  Mark Testa: I was like, somebody reaches out to you because I saw your website.
• 12:08
  Mark Testa: I'm like, okay.
• 12:09
  Mark Testa: And not name you maybe.
• 12:11
  Mark Testa: I'm not gonna disrespect you until you're not, but are you the decision maker?
• 12:15
  Mark Testa: Are you the are you the person that really can green light this project?
• 12:18
  Mark Testa: Do you have the budgets and the finances?
• 12:19
  Mark Testa: Do you have the ability to say yes when or approve things as we need it approved?
• 12:24
  Mark Testa: Are you that person?
• 12:25
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 12:26
  Mark Testa: And it's tough.
• 12:27
  Mark Testa: Sometimes you're gonna call with you know five people.
• 12:29
  Mark Testa: And then you have to say, who's really uh who's our first?
• 12:32
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 12:33
  Mark Testa: You may you can't ask them.
• 12:34
  Mark Testa: You just kind of have to kind of decipher it on your own.
• 12:37
  Mark Testa: Oh, you think you can't ask?
• 12:40
  Mark Testa: But can you?
• 12:41
  Mark Testa: Well, no, tell me because I want to know.
• 12:44
  Mark Testa: Always ask now.
• 12:46
  Mark Testa: What do you always say?
• 12:46
  Mark Testa: Are you are you important?
• 12:48
  Mark Testa: No.
• 12:49
  Staci Hallmon: I I'll speak.
• 12:50
  Staci Hallmon: Well one of the things time has taught me to do is to frame up everything like the conversation.
• 12:55
  Staci Hallmon: Okay.
• 12:55
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 12:56
  Staci Hallmon: And and curious information.
• 12:57
  Staci Hallmon: Oh, who was the who are the decision makers on this process?
• 13:01
  Staci Hallmon: Are you a part of that that um infrastructure?
• 13:04
  Staci Hallmon: Are you a part of that decision making team?
• 13:06
  Staci Hallmon: Um how will the decision makers be implemented into this process?
• 13:12
  Staci Hallmon: Um how what are the best ways that we can uh deliver information to the decision makers?
• 13:18
  Staci Hallmon: What do you need to be successful to take it up to the yes and no?
• 13:22
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 13:22
  Staci Hallmon: Um and then you know, sometimes somebody will say, I'm the yes and the no.
• 13:26
  Staci Hallmon: Well, that's great.
• 13:26
  Staci Hallmon: That works best for you.
• 13:28
  Staci Hallmon: Yes, yeah.
• 13:28
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 13:29
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 13:29
  Staci Hallmon: And so rarely is it that person, you know, who initially called it.
• 13:33
  Staci Hallmon: In some essences it is.
• 13:35
  Staci Hallmon: Um, but it's it's really about having a conversation, you know?
• 13:39
  Staci Hallmon: And and everyone is valuable in the ecosystem of what we're doing.
• 13:44
  Staci Hallmon: Everyone has a role, right?
• 13:46
  Staci Hallmon: But you know, some of them have jelly on it.
• 13:48
  Mark Testa: You might have some great.
• 13:49
  Mark Testa: I like that.
• 13:50
  Mark Testa: All right, so here's a question for you guys.
• 13:52
  Mark Testa: How do you differentiate the difference between a challenging project and a dangerous project?
• 13:56
  Mark Testa: And sometimes they get blurred.
• 13:58
  Mark Testa: Oh, yeah.
• 13:59
  Mark Testa: I know.
• 13:59
  Mark Testa: Some can go from challenged to dangerous, but I think a lot of it.
• 14:04
  Adrianne Mellen: And some can go from dangerous to challenging.
• 14:06
  Mark Testa: That is true.
• 14:06
  Mark Testa: A little bit than you thought.
• 14:08
  Adrianne Mellen: You know, actually, I had uh this is back from my old wedding days.
• 14:13
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, I started working with a client, and uh, I was very excited about their their event, their wedding.
• 14:23
  Adrianne Mellen: It was gonna be big and glitzy and glamorous and had a huge budget and all the things.
• 14:28
  Adrianne Mellen: And very quickly, and this was uh much earlier in my career, and very quickly I was finding that um, you know, they were calling me at 10 o'clock at night and they were, you know, wanting me to talk to Aunt Joe about her travel.
• 14:45
  Adrianne Mellen: Her travel.
• 14:45
  Adrianne Mellen: And I'm like, oh my goodness, like this is getting, this is going from challenging to dangerous.
• 14:50
  Adrianne Mellen: And so I was sick to my stomach about it because I was like, I can't work with these, and with weddings, you're with them for like up to two years.
• 14:58
  Adrianne Mellen: You know, it's it's like you are with these people.
• 15:03
  Adrianne Mellen: And so I sat down with the client and I was terrified of sweating and like my palms were sweaty, and I had like my whole little resignation letter written out and all the things and giving them back their deposit.
• 15:18
  Adrianne Mellen: I was like, I just need to get out of this thing.
• 15:19
  Adrianne Mellen: And I was like, listen, you know, I can't work with you any longer because of the way that you are using my time and the way that you're speaking to me.
• 15:28
  Adrianne Mellen: And uh, those are just two things that I can't abide by, and I think you'll be better off with another planner.
• 15:36
  Adrianne Mellen: I don't know what it was about that conversation, but it flipped something in that client.
• 15:40
  Adrianne Mellen: And we had a really long, hour-long talk about it.
• 15:45
  Adrianne Mellen: She came with her perspective, I came with my perspective.
• 15:49
  Adrianne Mellen: We ended up coming to like, you know, a really uh sound resolution on the whole thing and some ground rules.
• 15:56
  Adrianne Mellen: And lo and behold, I did her next three kids' weddings.
• 15:59
  Adrianne Mellen: So and so she went from dangerous to challenging to one of my most beloved clients.
• 16:08
  Adrianne Mellen: Oh, still?
• 16:08
  Adrianne Mellen: Still?
• 16:09
  Adrianne Mellen: Oh, okay.
• 16:10
  Adrianne Mellen: I still get a Christmas card.
• 16:11
  Adrianne Mellen: Went to some baby showers.
• 16:14
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, that it counts.
• 16:15
  Adrianne Mellen: She came to mine.
• 16:16
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 16:16
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Adrianne Mellen: So it is interesting because you kind of don't know.
• 16:20
  Adrianne Mellen: And so then it begs the question of what do I trust in my gut.
• 16:27
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 16:27
  Adrianne Mellen: And sometimes it truly is your gut can change.
• 16:31
  Adrianne Mellen: You can have that hard conversation.
• 16:32
  Adrianne Mellen: Because there was part of me that was like, I'm gonna send this woman an email and it's gonna be peace out, see you later.
• 16:37
  Adrianne Mellen: I was like, no, I owe it to sit down with her and this mat and all the things.
• 16:40
  Adrianne Mellen: So sometimes that hard conversation can bring you to a new place, but it is figuring out if it's worth it.
• 16:49
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Adrianne Mellen: And sometimes you don't know.
• 16:51
  Mark Testa: You don't know.
• 16:52
  Mark Testa: You just write a lot.
• 16:53
  Mark Testa: It it's sometimes we've been nicely surprised.
• 16:55
  Mark Testa: How about yourself?
• 16:55
  Mark Testa: From dangerous to challenging.
• 16:59
  Staci Hallmon: You know, I may sound like a bit of a broken record here, but um it certainly has been around goal setting and you know, outlining expectations.
• 17:08
  Staci Hallmon: And I have lost more business than I gained by being really intentional about goal setting and setting expectations.
• 17:19
  Staci Hallmon: One because I I've seen events in the budget spiral because there aren't a set of goals and expectations that are set, and every week, you know, the client has a new idea of what could be cool.
• 17:31
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah, I know could be the Lord Almighty.
• 17:33
  Staci Hallmon: Oh, I know we could drive for a while.
• 17:34
  Staci Hallmon: Oh, I know we want to book, or we should talk to, or we should add, and you know, once you're already in it, you know, you can only ask questions like, okay, are we deprioritizing something else here as we're in that?
• 17:46
  Staci Hallmon: Exactly.
• 17:47
  Staci Hallmon: But you're in it, right?
• 17:49
  Staci Hallmon: Um, so at the top, you know, Mark, you've been on a call with me where you know goals are where the goals are like all over the place in the room here.
• 18:02
  Mark Testa: It's like, yeah, I'm a feeling about where I'm feeling.
• 18:05
  Staci Hallmon: Exactly.
• 18:06
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 18:06
  Staci Hallmon: And over the years, yeah, we have all been on a call with each other with that in place and stuff.
• 18:11
  Staci Hallmon: Oh, yeah.
• 18:12
  Staci Hallmon: So now I'm just like, it's my North Star, right?
• 18:17
  Staci Hallmon: Can we align on the goals?
• 18:19
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 18:19
  Staci Hallmon: Right?
• 18:20
  Staci Hallmon: Can we write them down, see them?
• 18:22
  Staci Hallmon: Hey, we've got them on paper.
• 18:23
  Staci Hallmon: Is everyone clear?
• 18:24
  Staci Hallmon: We're all sending from the same sheet of music.
• 18:26
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 18:26
  Staci Hallmon: And we're great, right?
• 18:28
  Staci Hallmon: And then we can just always keep pointing back to that, right?
• 18:31
  Staci Hallmon: And so, but if we can align on goals, and you know, I've had clients say, like, I want to let it be what it is, like just let's just be an effortless flow.
• 18:39
  Staci Hallmon: And I'm like, that's great conversation for um like team building, right?
• 18:44
  Staci Hallmon: But we are building an experience, right?
• 18:47
  Staci Hallmon: And so, and it's very difficult, which we do it all the time, but it's very difficult to build a plane while flying.
• 18:53
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Staci Hallmon: We talk about it, we say like, oh, well, you know, we're building a plane while we're flying it.
• 18:58
  Staci Hallmon: And that's possible when you have a different set of goals.
• 19:02
  Staci Hallmon: You can't have the same set of goals when you're building a plane while flying it, than the person who's been flying a fully built plane for 10 years.
• 19:10
  Mark Testa: Come on, and that's great.
• 19:12
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 19:12
  Staci Hallmon: That's setting it.
• 19:14
  Mark Testa: It's the goal setting and the setting of expectations for the interesting project that we actually just finished.
• 19:19
  Mark Testa: Um it's a two-parter.
• 19:21
  Mark Testa: And we took it on as a challenge.
• 19:24
  Mark Testa: So I said we can do this.
• 19:26
  Mark Testa: Then they added another piece and I had to literally say no.
• 19:31
  Mark Testa: And they were not happy.
• 19:32
  Mark Testa: I'm sure I could have said yes, but it would have been twice the amount of money because we'd have to go to different vendors because now time was compressed.
• 19:40
  Mark Testa: Sure.
• 19:41
  Mark Testa: And I I I was I, you know, then the third party and next person on the call calls me and they're like, Well, what do we tell our client?
• 19:48
  Mark Testa: I was like, You're gonna have to tell them I tried everything.
• 19:50
  Mark Testa: I will not even take the money for the second half.
• 19:53
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 19:54
  Mark Testa: Now the project's now over.
• 19:55
  Mark Testa: And I say, and I this is an example of something I'm using.
• 19:59
  Mark Testa: I say, the preference, and she's like, y'all know how hard we work.
• 20:01
  Mark Testa: You all worked hard on the first part.
• 20:03
  Mark Testa: If we had taken the second part, do you see now what I was talking about?
• 20:07
  Mark Testa: It's like, oh my God, you're so right.
• 20:08
  Mark Testa: Hopefully we now have a long-term client.
• 20:10
  Mark Testa: With similar, but it's like, yeah, I was there to protect you.
• 20:13
  Mark Testa: I know it was a painful conversation for you.
• 20:16
  Mark Testa: There was an agency, and I was like, to their client, it's like, I know it was a painful conversation for you to have and tell them no because you know, you're in a situation where you like to say yes to them.
• 20:25
  Adrianne Mellen: Of course.
• 20:26
  Adrianne Mellen: We all like to say yes.
• 20:26
  Mark Testa: No, it's like it's a major corporation that, you know, money wasn't even the issue.
• 20:31
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 20:31
  Mark Testa: Which that's a way to look more.
• 20:33
  Mark Testa: I cannot buy time.
• 20:34
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 20:35
  Mark Testa: Give me all the money in the world.
• 20:36
  Mark Testa: That's right.
• 20:37
  Mark Testa: There's not enough resources to execute at this.
• 20:41
  Mark Testa: I will execute what I challenge that we've been presented because I thought it was cool.
• 20:46
  Mark Testa: We're gonna make it work, and we did, but if I took the second part on, we'd all be upset.
• 20:51
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 20:51
  Mark Testa: The entire project would have been impactful.
• 20:53
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 20:53
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 20:53
  Mark Testa: And then the first part would have looked bad too.
• 20:55
  Mark Testa: Of course.
• 20:56
  Mark Testa: Absolutely.
• 20:56
  Mark Testa: Absolutely.
• 20:57
  Staci Hallmon: But you mentioned something there, Mart, uh, about the feeling that you had to be.
• 21:01
  Staci Hallmon: We talked about um when you went to ask them, do you think we would have been able to take on the second part after it was on?
• 21:10
  Staci Hallmon: And they were like, No, you were so right.
• 21:13
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Staci Hallmon: When we said that, I felt that feeling because you know, we all love that film and we're like, yes, I know what we're doing.
• 21:19
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 21:19
  Mark Testa: We all said that was fine if we had started six months ago.
• 21:23
  Mark Testa: That is not an option anymore.
• 21:25
  Mark Testa: We all live in a world where definitive deadlines are happening.
• 21:28
  Mark Testa: We don't build houses.
• 21:29
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 21:29
  Mark Testa: We're not interior designers where you have, well, the couch will show up next week.
• 21:32
  Mark Testa: We're gonna be okay.
• 21:33
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 21:34
  Mark Testa: Um this is gonna happen with or without their blessing or whatever.
• 21:38
  Mark Testa: It's going to happen on that date if we're ready or not.
• 21:40
  Mark Testa: And we have to change and evolve with it.
• 21:43
  Mark Testa: You know, we will take projects on.
• 21:45
  Mark Testa: Not that we're all not a lot of no's, but exactly.
• 21:48
  Mark Testa: We actually don't think they know that fast.
• 21:52
  Mark Testa: But how do and and you know, because a lot of it's money, you know, it's revenue.
• 21:56
  Mark Testa: We need to keep keep feeding the machine.
• 21:58
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 21:59
  Mark Testa: Um, you know, we got People will pay and everything.
• 22:01
  Mark Testa: So, how do you weigh out that short-term revenue versus the long-term impact that you might have on your on the brand or on the agency or your work?
• 22:11
  Adrianne Mellen: So I actually have um a comment to that that sort of is a hybrid answer to what we were just talking about in this.
• 22:18
  Adrianne Mellen: So one sign of danger to come for me, which I have learned the learned the hard way, is when a client comes and negotiates.
• 22:29
  Adrianne Mellen: So if I put forth, hey, this is this is my fee, this is what it's gonna cost, this is what my time is worth, this is what my agency is worth, et cetera and so forth.
• 22:37
  Adrianne Mellen: And they say, No, I really think you can how about if you do it for this?
• 22:43
  Staci Hallmon: As your fee.
• 22:44
  Adrianne Mellen: As my fee.
• 22:45
  Adrianne Mellen: And or as the project fee.
• 22:47
  Adrianne Mellen: Whatever, whatever, you know, same thing with you.
• 22:48
  Adrianne Mellen: Like, hey, this project's gonna cost X, Y, Z.
• 22:51
  Adrianne Mellen: And they're like, no, you can pull it off for X, Y.
• 22:54
  Adrianne Mellen: Like, right, no, I can't.
• 22:57
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, and with us, because we are not, we're producing, we're offering a service, not necessarily a product, you know, it you're buying my time and expertise and my team's time and expertise.
• 23:07
  Adrianne Mellen: And when there is negotiation, I find every single time that there is a lack of respect for the expertise and the time.
• 23:17
  Adrianne Mellen: There is a lack of um, I mean, really, I guess the lack of respect in kind of all the different avenues.
• 23:27
  Adrianne Mellen: And it started right there with them saying in a lot of ways, I'm not valuing your time the way you are.
• 23:32
  Adrianne Mellen: And the second somebody starts to negotiate, that's it.
• 23:37
  Adrianne Mellen: I I'm out.
• 23:38
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 23:38
  Mark Testa: But you deal a lot more with fees, right?
• 23:40
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 23:41
  Adrianne Mellen: I deal a lot with fees.
• 23:42
  Adrianne Mellen: Now, I mean, I will go out and negotiate the hell out of something else.
• 23:45
  Mark Testa: That's right.
• 23:45
  Mark Testa: Sure.
• 23:46
  Adrianne Mellen: But that's what I that's what you're paying me for.
• 23:48
  Adrianne Mellen: So you don't negotiate on my time.
• 23:49
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 23:50
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 23:50
  Mark Testa: That's interesting.
• 23:51
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 23:51
  Mark Testa: I I rarely get negotiated on the fees.
• 23:55
  Mark Testa: I don't get pushed, I get pushed back on everything else.
• 23:57
  Mark Testa: And I know this going into it.
• 23:58
  Mark Testa: And I actually will be surprised by somebody who says yes, the first thing.
• 24:01
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 24:02
  Mark Testa: Yeah, sure.
• 24:02
  Mark Testa: That'd be never a million dollars.
• 24:04
  Mark Testa: I'll take sure.
• 24:05
  Mark Testa: Nope.
• 24:05
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 24:05
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Mark Testa: Well, then you know it's like, all right, and I expect you to give me, oh, we're gonna play a little bit, but the they're interested in the rarely if they you're right.
• 24:12
  Mark Testa: If they if they talked about the fee and I have to defend it, yeah.
• 24:15
  Mark Testa: Well, it may defend it a little bit.
• 24:17
  Mark Testa: You know, it's a percentage of X, Y, Z, and yes, but but I think if they go, you know, questioning the amount of work or just flat out saying, like, that's no, not doing it.
• 24:27
  Adrianne Mellen: No, we're not gonna pay that fee.
• 24:28
  Adrianne Mellen: We'll pay XYZ fee.
• 24:29
  Mark Testa: And that's that's no, no, no, not gonna happen.
• 24:31
  Adrianne Mellen: And Mark, you have the luxury of saying, like, okay, you want to spend less, you're gonna get less.
• 24:35
  Mark Testa: And uh, right.
• 24:36
  Mark Testa: And I've done that.
• 24:37
  Adrianne Mellen: That's a different, it's a different um it's a different game for you know what I do and the service that I offer.
• 24:45
  Adrianne Mellen: Absolutely.
• 24:45
  Adrianne Mellen: So yeah, I would agree.
• 24:47
  Adrianne Mellen: It's it's it's very interesting and it is every single time.
• 24:51
  Mark Testa: Every right, and it's every and it's every uh size company, even the bigger ones actually are the probably the worst at it.
• 24:57
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Mark Testa: The most.
• 24:58
  Mark Testa: Oh yeah.
• 24:59
  Mark Testa: Absolutely.
• 25:00
  Adrianne Mellen: The most.
• 25:00
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 25:01
  Adrianne Mellen: But every single time there's been a negotiation, it has been a project that was dangerous.
• 25:08
  Mark Testa: Well, I I think there's a good negotiation.
• 25:10
  Mark Testa: Oh, I agree.
• 25:11
  Mark Testa: It's it's kind of a fun, and we expect it, but when you're telling me somebody's like, I'm not just paying I'm not paying.
• 25:16
  Mark Testa: I was like, then they're not right for you.
• 25:18
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 25:19
  Mark Testa: You know?
• 25:19
  Mark Testa: Is there any time where like rev you know revenue was more important for you, or you kind of took a project on and you're like, you know.
• 25:27
  Staci Hallmon: Revenue is always really important.
• 25:29
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 25:29
  Staci Hallmon: I this is I'm in a business.
• 25:31
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 25:32
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 25:32
  Staci Hallmon: Um and it may not be as revenue may not be as important for the client.
• 25:39
  Staci Hallmon: Like I've I've worked on project.
• 25:40
  Staci Hallmon: My favorite projects is when a client says, I'm starting something out, I know it's not going to be profitable in year one, but I want to build into something and create a business.
• 25:50
  Staci Hallmon: And I'm like, Yes, that's actually how you create a business.
• 25:52
  Staci Hallmon: Um but I agree with you around the fee structure for the services render.
• 26:00
  Staci Hallmon: Because I really may not have the ability to say, okay, well, I'll pull two of my people off this project if you don't want to pay the full fee.
• 26:07
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 26:07
  Staci Hallmon: The reality of it is that we are a working team together offering a different set of expertise to the table.
• 26:14
  Staci Hallmon: And so, you know, there are real challenges with that.
• 26:17
  Staci Hallmon: But oh man, you know, I would say for work itself, um, I I try to balance the this idea of revenue versus or revenue and the work with a conversation with my team.
• 26:36
  Staci Hallmon: You know, I sit at the head of the organization, um, but my head of operations and business development, I make every decision with them versus just for us.
• 26:45
  Staci Hallmon: Um because one, right, they're doing most of the work.
• 26:50
  Staci Hallmon: They're doing the work, yeah.
• 26:51
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 26:52
  Staci Hallmon: And, you know, I have the privilege of sitting in a thought leadership seat in a like a yes and a no uh decision-making seat, but they are the ones who are are doing the work.
• 27:02
  Staci Hallmon: So um, that was a decision that I made when I launched the firm is to say, like, I want people who are my one and my two who are included in this process.
• 27:11
  Staci Hallmon: Um and if they say yes, you know, they've said yes to some things, and I'm like, really?
• 27:16
  Staci Hallmon: They're like, we want to do it.
• 27:17
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Staci Hallmon: And I'm like, all right, then let's go for it.
• 27:20
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 27:20
  Staci Hallmon: You know?
• 27:21
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 27:21
  Mark Testa: I've had teams say yes and I said no.
• 27:23
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 27:24
  Mark Testa: But I have, you know, it's like I yeah, because they I don't think they had all the they didn't have all the the story that I had.
• 27:31
  Mark Testa: I had a little bit of their backstory to some things.
• 27:33
  Mark Testa: And and on the opposite, we've taken on smaller projects where we actually got far less for the long term.
• 27:40
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 27:40
  Mark Testa: You know, that if it's if the short term is is, you know, the PR aspect, the social media aspect.
• 27:45
  Mark Testa: Sure.
• 27:46
  Mark Testa: Those are huge.
• 27:46
  Mark Testa: Or you're just foot in the door, just get in there.
• 27:48
  Mark Testa: And then once you're in, there's a there's a fine line to that.
• 27:51
  Mark Testa: I think it's works in some other type of marketing.
• 27:53
  Mark Testa: I don't necessarily know if it works here.
• 27:55
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 27:55
  Mark Testa: Because getting your foot in the door, it if we found out it's like I came in less, and then when the big projects come, you jump over here.
• 28:01
  Mark Testa: I was like, well, that didn't work out for me.
• 28:03
  Mark Testa: But you know, I got to kind of weigh those out.
• 28:05
  Mark Testa: And I've we've taken smaller projects on because if we felt it was good and we got something out of it, because good press and social media is very expensive.
• 28:12
  Mark Testa: So if you can get something out of it, um, you know, we we've done the you know the closely crafted in which you know getting vogue.com can't beat that.
• 28:20
  Adrianne Mellen: I was like, you know, we'll do that again.
• 28:22
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Mark Testa: There are there are other projects like that if it works.
• 28:25
  Mark Testa: I love it.
• 28:26
  Mark Testa: Yeah, definitely.
• 28:27
  Mark Testa: Do you guys have like formal frameworks where you evaluate things or uh like a one-sheeter or something or a scorecard, or it's just all in your head?
• 28:39
  Staci Hallmon: I don't I don't have a formal scorecard, and not that I don't want to develop one.
• 28:43
  Staci Hallmon: In fact, my operations leader, she is uh we call her the general isotope.
• 28:49
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah, somebody I know?
• 28:51
  Mark Testa: Exactly.
• 28:52
  Staci Hallmon: That's exactly right.
• 28:52
  Staci Hallmon: She is very much about a scorecard.
• 28:55
  Staci Hallmon: She learns, she's she knows, you know?
• 28:58
  Staci Hallmon: And so um, so we're gonna develop one.
• 29:02
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 29:02
  Staci Hallmon: And and sometimes they are formally informal, um, just to also allow the partner to understand that we we have something that we're working with for and against.
• 29:15
  Staci Hallmon: Sometimes it makes those conversations when you're sitting down with someone to say why it's a no for you.
• 29:19
  Staci Hallmon: You know, the firing the client uh conversation.
• 29:23
  Staci Hallmon: But I I would like to develop one.
• 29:27
  Staci Hallmon: Um, and I think we have all the tools to do it, we just haven't implemented it yet.
• 29:31
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 29:31
  Adrianne Mellen: Fully unfeeling.
• 29:34
  Adrianne Mellen: Fully, fully unfeeling.
• 29:37
  Adrianne Mellen: And, you know, and then some of the other things that we talked about.
• 29:40
  Adrianne Mellen: The fee has to be right.
• 29:41
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, you know, there is some element of um, you know, how does this impact our portfolio?
• 29:48
  Adrianne Mellen: How does it impact my team?
• 29:50
  Adrianne Mellen: But one thing that I've learned to really listen to is my gut.
• 29:58
  Adrianne Mellen: And if my gut is screaming, this is not a great project, or my gut is screaming, this is a great project, even though you're not make it work.
• 30:06
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 30:06
  Adrianne Mellen: And so it's really feeling based.
• 30:08
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 30:09
  Adrianne Mellen: Exactly.
• 30:12
  Staci Hallmon: And so there's other nuts and bolts to it, but you know, we are at the epitome of it doesn't matter how what you say and what you did, how does how you meet them feel.
• 30:21
  Adrianne Mellen: Yep.
• 30:21
  Staci Hallmon: Absolutely.
• 30:22
  Mark Testa: Same idea.
• 30:23
  Mark Testa: I've we've developed a questionnaire.
• 30:25
  Mark Testa: We haven't really used it yet.
• 30:27
  Mark Testa: There was one thing I'm trying to lean into is what is your end goal?
• 30:32
  Mark Testa: I think that is my number one thing.
• 30:33
  Mark Testa: I'm really trying to get to people if I if I can't decipher it early on.
• 30:37
  Mark Testa: There was a project we recently took on.
• 30:39
  Mark Testa: The budget should have been twice what it was.
• 30:41
  Mark Testa: That we're gonna introduce the the scorecard just so to kind of spark the conversation.
• 30:47
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Mark Testa: You know, say, hey, this is what we show other people.
• 30:49
  Mark Testa: Yeah you know, this is what what we usually and and why.
• 30:52
  Mark Testa: I think I think the scorecard, we're gonna try it.
• 30:54
  Mark Testa: Like you said, I think I think it's important we try it.
• 30:57
  Mark Testa: Um people might not pay any mind to it and it's too formal, but at least I think it can spark the conversation.
• 31:03
  Mark Testa: So people assume saying no damages client relationships.
• 31:08
  Mark Testa: That's the assumption.
• 31:10
  Mark Testa: We've now discover that they might not be.
• 31:12
  Mark Testa: Um how how do you say no in a way that kind of builds trust?
• 31:17
  Mark Testa: That's a good question.
• 31:21
  Adrianne Mellen: Very good question.
• 31:22
  Adrianne Mellen: I think that the most important aspect of saying no is the honesty behind it, the uh explanation, kind of the facts behind it, the reason why.
• 31:41
  Adrianne Mellen: And I think it's also doing it with extreme kindness.
• 31:44
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 31:44
  Adrianne Mellen: You know, there's always we can always say something and deliver a message kindly and softly and gently.
• 31:52
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, and that includes no.
• 31:54
  Adrianne Mellen: And so, um, but I I think that that honest reason behind no is so crucial to not only our integrity, but also to the client's development as and furthermore, them going on to the next person who they're going to call after you've said no.
• 32:12
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 32:13
  Adrianne Mellen: So I I think that that's important.
• 32:15
  Adrianne Mellen: And I and I do there have been times where I've said no to a client for whatever reason, and they'd come back and said, We've got more time now for this project.
• 32:24
  Adrianne Mellen: We've got a little more budget for this project, we've got whatever it may be.
• 32:28
  Adrianne Mellen: Will you consider it?
• 32:29
  Adrianne Mellen: And the answer is a hundred percent yes, because they listened to what the reason behind the no, they accepted it, and they came back having changed it.
• 32:39
  Adrianne Mellen: And that's a really kind of beautiful thing.
• 32:42
  Adrianne Mellen: It doesn't always happen, but when it does, it's like good day in the event world.
• 32:46
  Adrianne Mellen: Thank you, event gas.
• 32:50
  Staci Hallmon: I would agree.
• 32:50
  Staci Hallmon: I would agree.
• 32:51
  Staci Hallmon: Um so getting to the no.
• 32:55
  Staci Hallmon: Um I'm a very curious person, um, and sometimes it can drive people crazy because my curiosity is shows up in the form of question asking.
• 33:09
  Mark Testa: You do ask questions.
• 33:10
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 33:10
  Staci Hallmon: And so I just asked.
• 33:11
  Staci Hallmon: I love questions.
• 33:12
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah, I love it.
• 33:13
  Staci Hallmon: Like in all of my relationships, like even with my children, like I'm all like there's always a ton, and they're like, Mm.
• 33:19
  Staci Hallmon: But I'm a storyteller, so I'm picking like putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and sometimes you may have given me half of an answer, and I'm just trying to add it to the rest of the story so that I can understand what we're working with.
• 33:34
  Staci Hallmon: And so with clients, you know, I'll ask a series of questions, you know.
• 33:39
  Staci Hallmon: Now we don't have a scorecard, but we do have a depending on the what the client's uh perceived outcomes are, you start the project with a questionnaire that is very much about you know the goal setting and all those things.
• 33:51
  Staci Hallmon: But even you know, one client we had 135 questions in that first partner, but there were still questions to be asked once we heard some of those answers kind of in between.
• 34:01
  Staci Hallmon: And I pay attention to the answers.
• 34:06
  Staci Hallmon: And there have been times when I've said to a client after all the you know questions and all the answers, does this partnership feel right for you?
• 34:15
  Staci Hallmon: And they've said I don't know if this is the right fit.
• 34:20
  Staci Hallmon: Or I've asked, um Is this the is this the type of partnership you were looking for?
• 34:27
  Staci Hallmon: That's a good that's that's a nice one.
• 34:29
  Staci Hallmon: Um and I've had you know a client say, at first it wasn't, but now that I understand what we need, it was a lot of interesting.
• 34:41
  Staci Hallmon: So um we all have to share in in in the decision of the no, um is is the way that I look at it.
• 34:49
  Mark Testa: Yeah, I do the same.
• 34:50
  Mark Testa: I I if I am saying no, it's I I reframe it as it's in your best interest.
• 34:55
  Mark Testa: You know, if it's which is true.
• 34:59
  Adrianne Mellen: It's a very kind way to say the truth.
• 35:01
  Mark Testa: I'm telling you, and I won't say the word no, I'm just saying if it's not right, I'm gonna protect you.
• 35:07
  Mark Testa: If if this is the last project, I'm not taking on the second half to protect you and your how you you are perceived to your client.
• 35:14
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 35:14
  Mark Testa: Or um we're not right for this, but maybe we'll find somebody who actually is right for you.
• 35:19
  Adrianne Mellen: Oh, for sure.
• 35:20
  Mark Testa: Or maybe you just lean to learn on your own.
• 35:22
  Mark Testa: I come to us.
• 35:25
  Mark Testa: Or when you have more time.
• 35:27
  Mark Testa: You know, I I'm telling you if you need more time or you don't have budget, I think let's let's look at that.
• 35:31
  Mark Testa: Let's explore that.
• 35:31
  Mark Testa: We're here.
• 35:32
  Mark Testa: Yes.
• 35:32
  Mark Testa: We're here when when if that comes back.
• 35:35
  Adrianne Mellen: Well, and I do believe too that that there can be, even if it's not the right project for me, it could be the right project for somebody else.
• 35:42
  Adrianne Mellen: For somebody, maybe because of whatever their skill sets are, where they're at in their career, or what they've got on their roster.
• 35:49
  Adrianne Mellen: I mean, my no doesn't mean that that project is a no necessarily.
• 35:54
  Adrianne Mellen: Um and so I I do to your point, Mark, I do always, if I can, I always try to recommend somebody else.
• 36:03
  Mark Testa: Same.
• 36:04
  Adrianne Mellen: Just because, you know, I think that that's in just in the spirit of the event world, it's the right thing to do.
• 36:10
  Adrianne Mellen: And, you know, we all kind of know sort of who's out there and what's available.
• 36:13
  Adrianne Mellen: Exactly.
• 36:14
  Staci Hallmon: You did Mark's podcast.
• 36:16
  Adrianne Mellen: Yes.
• 36:16
  Staci Hallmon: You talked about it can't be fast, good, and cheap.
• 36:19
  Staci Hallmon: It cannot, right?
• 36:21
  Mark Testa: And you can pick two.
• 36:23
  Staci Hallmon: You know, that's a part of some of the conversations that you know we have as well.
• 36:27
  Staci Hallmon: Yes.
• 36:27
  Staci Hallmon: You want fast and cheap, they have to put it together, right?
• 36:31
  Staci Hallmon: Um, that's oil and water.
• 36:33
  Staci Hallmon: And so those are some of the that's it's just basic conversations sometimes, sometimes you have around what will work and and why I could be, we could or could not be the right partner for you.
• 36:43
  Staci Hallmon: But yeah, fast, good, and cheap, I'm good on good.
• 36:46
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 36:46
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 36:47
  Staci Hallmon: Um, fast is always a challenge.
• 36:49
  Mark Testa: Good, good's not not an option.
• 36:50
  Mark Testa: Good's not an option.
• 36:52
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 36:52
  Mark Testa: Right.
• 36:52
  Adrianne Mellen: I'm giving you fast.
• 36:53
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 36:55
  Mark Testa: You're gonna pick one of the other ones.
• 36:56
  Mark Testa: You can't, you can't have all the.
• 36:57
  Mark Testa: You know you can get good, so we've already taken one out of the three off the table.
• 37:01
  Mark Testa: One more.
• 37:01
  Mark Testa: Yeah, sorry.
• 37:02
  Mark Testa: You've got to pick one more.
• 37:03
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 37:03
  Mark Testa: All right, yeah.
• 37:03
  Mark Testa: So the next question.
• 37:04
  Mark Testa: So here's a this industry is based on a lot of it's based on this glamourization of I was up all night.
• 37:11
  Mark Testa: Uh oh, we we we above and beyond, we did it for no time and the budget, what we did.
• 37:17
  Mark Testa: We did it.
• 37:18
  Mark Testa: And they're a little unrealistic.
• 37:19
  Mark Testa: Like, why do you think it's that way?
• 37:23
  Adrianne Mellen: So I think when we were brought up in this industry, and especially where we all started, which is the magazine world, that the devil wears prono with a real it was that was real watching.
• 37:37
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, we're like, that's uh.
• 37:39
  Adrianne Mellen: Like, hey mom, you see the movie?
• 37:41
  Adrianne Mellen: That's me.
• 37:41
  Adrianne Mellen: And we were doing it in heels.
• 37:44
  Adrianne Mellen: I mean, you know, so I think in some way this was not in heels, but I mean are you sure?
• 37:51
  Adrianne Mellen: He's always been on his and some little too.
• 37:53
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, so I think that um I think the I think it's part of the glamour glamorization of it.
• 38:01
  Adrianne Mellen: It's like, oh my gosh, I'm you know, and I think that that there is that hustle culture that's out there.
• 38:06
  Adrianne Mellen: And I think that because we were brought up that way, you start to bring up the next generation that way.
• 38:12
  Adrianne Mellen: And I think it takes cutting that loose to um to really kind of evolve.
• 38:20
  Adrianne Mellen: And I was training um an employee at one point, and she was she was rushing around the event.
• 38:27
  Adrianne Mellen: And, you know, we all know if anyone sees the event planner rushing, it's a problem.
• 38:32
  Adrianne Mellen: It's a problem.
• 38:32
  Adrianne Mellen: It's a huge problem.
• 38:34
  Adrianne Mellen: You walk slow, you keep a smile on your face, and you freak out when you get behind closed doors and figure it out.
• 38:40
  Adrianne Mellen: And I stopped her and I explained that to her, and she's like, Oh, but I you know, I just I want, you know, I want everybody to know that we're we're like working, we're busy.
• 38:47
  Adrianne Mellen: I'm like, they they they see that.
• 38:48
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, we're okay.
• 38:49
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, we're okay.
• 38:50
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, you walk slow, you stay calm.
• 38:53
  Adrianne Mellen: And I think that that is not something, yeah, it's something you have to learn.
• 38:59
  Adrianne Mellen: It's not something that you're taught in this business.
• 39:01
  Adrianne Mellen: Um and it's up to folks like us to kind of like bring the next generation up a little, yeah, a little differently than we were brought up.
• 39:12
  Staci Hallmon: I I've completely evolved on it too.
• 39:14
  Staci Hallmon: Like completely evolved.
• 39:16
  Staci Hallmon: Um I can think of two instances that really like punched me in the gut.
• 39:21
  Staci Hallmon: Um, you know, it it was normal for me to be in the office past 11 p.m.
• 39:27
  Staci Hallmon: Normal.
• 39:28
  Staci Hallmon: Really?
• 39:28
  Staci Hallmon: No, yeah.
• 39:28
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 39:31
  Staci Hallmon: Normal.
• 39:32
  Staci Hallmon: Nor so much so I'll I'll combine the stories uh when you know, hashtags were a thing, really a thing.
• 39:39
  Staci Hallmon: Like I would sign off like some emails, and I I wouldn't be in the office alone.
• 39:44
  Staci Hallmon: That's the other thing.
• 39:45
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 39:45
  Staci Hallmon: Other members of my team would be there and some other things.
• 39:48
  Staci Hallmon: Like hashtag me be all night.
• 39:51
  Staci Hallmon: And um, thank God for young, like the younger generation who was like, Yeah, I don't want that to be my yeah, they they caught on.
• 39:59
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah, they didn't remember correctly.
• 40:01
  Staci Hallmon: They taught us like they did.
• 40:03
  Staci Hallmon: She said, that is so much pressure.
• 40:06
  Staci Hallmon: She said, I feel like I can never have a family.
• 40:08
  Staci Hallmon: I feel like I I would never be able to do the things that require me to be somewhere else at 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock.
• 40:16
  Staci Hallmon: And like 11 o'clock was norm.
• 40:18
  Staci Hallmon: When I tell you, I've had, you know.
• 40:21
  Staci Hallmon: So the other part of that story is one morning I got in around 2 a.m.
• 40:25
  Staci Hallmon: from work.
• 40:26
  Staci Hallmon: From work.
• 40:26
  Staci Hallmon: I didn't have any advanced.
• 40:27
  Staci Hallmon: And you were not even in finance.
• 40:28
  Staci Hallmon: In the office, right?
• 40:30
  Staci Hallmon: Not like there wasn't, it was a regular night work.
• 40:33
  Staci Hallmon: And I would go in the house, kiss my children, right?
• 40:37
  Staci Hallmon: They're asleep.
• 40:38
  Staci Hallmon: And my oldest son, like, kind of got up and he was like, oh, oh, it was a record-breaking year.
• 40:43
  Staci Hallmon: And like laid back down.
• 40:46
  Staci Hallmon: And I like stood there for a moment, like, yeah, what it what am I doing?
• 40:51
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 40:51
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 40:51
  Staci Hallmon: Now it was a record breaking year, but I'm not surprised.
• 40:55
  Staci Hallmon: I realized what he was saying to me in that moment.
• 41:00
  Staci Hallmon: Sure, yeah.
• 41:01
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 41:01
  Staci Hallmon: Like, yeah.
• 41:02
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 41:03
  Staci Hallmon: And I got it.
• 41:04
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 41:05
  Mark Testa: No, and I I always say what we do, like this may sound bad.
• 41:09
  Mark Testa: We we're not saving lives necessarily.
• 41:11
  Mark Testa: You're not saving lives.
• 41:12
  Mark Testa: I know people who still work in finance because they still do that, and that's that's their world.
• 41:17
  Mark Testa: And I chose not to be in that world.
• 41:18
  Mark Testa: Right, right.
• 41:19
  Mark Testa: But you know, they get compensated well for that.
• 41:22
  Mark Testa: You know, and I don't there's nothing against that's that's what you want.
• 41:25
  Mark Testa: And I think, you know, at the end of the table, there's a there's a next generation y'all can't see, um, who have kind of in many ways taught us you don't need to we don't do that.
• 41:36
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 41:37
  Mark Testa: When it comes to events and we're doing the event, yeah, you may stay up to 2 3 in the morning because that's right.
• 41:41
  Mark Testa: Part of that's the excitement, right?
• 41:43
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 41:43
  Mark Testa: You know?
• 41:43
  Mark Testa: Now we've got to job and that job is not job.
• 41:46
  Mark Testa: And that's and I think that's why we even do what we do because we kind of get off on it.
• 41:50
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 41:50
  Mark Testa: Um first of all, what is that we do too?
• 41:53
  Mark Testa: Actually, it requires and and you may do longer getting closer to the event when you're like I time is is the time.
• 42:01
  Mark Testa: But you know, I think social media, they everything hype hyper but it's almost a like you said, the the devil worse Prada.
• 42:08
  Mark Testa: There was is almost like the glamorization, but it's like that was then, yeah, and this is now, you know.
• 42:13
  Mark Testa: But it's like the same person that like in college, I didn't all know it.
• 42:17
  Mark Testa: Good for you.
• 42:17
  Mark Testa: You know, it's like I mean and I right?
• 42:19
  Mark Testa: I mean, you all we all know someone.
• 42:21
  Mark Testa: It's like, and that same person says who will keep that story on forever.
• 42:25
  Mark Testa: And don't change that story for them.
• 42:26
  Mark Testa: That's their thing.
• 42:28
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 42:28
  Mark Testa: That's so you know, I think you know, young people, yeah, just but you also have to be efficient in the work that you do.
• 42:33
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Mark Testa: So that's that's the other part.
• 42:36
  Adrianne Mellen: There is part of me that thinks, Stacey, you very much aside because I know what you were doing until two o'clock in the morning and 11 o'clock.
• 42:42
  Adrianne Mellen: Like I get that because I had been there.
• 42:43
  Adrianne Mellen: But there's also part of me now, too, that with all of the efficiencies that we have, right?
• 42:49
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, all of the ability to work from here and there and everywhere and all the things, there is part of me that does wonder if somebody has to stay doing their job until midnight every night.
• 43:00
  Adrianne Mellen: Like, like I said, you aside, because I know what you're doing.
• 43:04
  Adrianne Mellen: But like maybe they're not right for this business.
• 43:07
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 43:08
  Adrianne Mellen: Or maybe they aren't working as efficiently as they could.
• 43:11
  Adrianne Mellen: Or maybe, maybe I'm not training them well enough.
• 43:14
  Adrianne Mellen: Because the last thing, especially once I started leading teams and, you know, had my own business, et cetera.
• 43:19
  Adrianne Mellen: You know, I don't want to burn my employees out.
• 43:23
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 43:24
  Adrianne Mellen: I want them to stay with me.
• 43:25
  Adrianne Mellen: I want them to want to stay with me because they're not living and breathing this business that I've created.
• 43:30
  Adrianne Mellen: I can live and breathe it all day long.
• 43:32
  Adrianne Mellen: But they shouldn't have to.
• 43:34
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 43:34
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, and I think I think that that's definitely something that we all now have as business owners that we were able to make changes for too.
• 43:44
  Adrianne Mellen: Because, you know, when you work for the when you work for the biggies, you know, it is the culture and it is it is what's expected, and it's very easy to drink that Kool-Aid.
• 43:53
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 43:53
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 43:54
  Mark Testa: So uh tagging on to that, what advice would you give to, I mean, because we we all have been doing this for a while.
• 43:59
  Mark Testa: We've learned and you know have all these stories to say.
• 44:03
  Mark Testa: Um what advice would you give somebody coming up who do hasn't other like say they weren't around you two that that didn't have the the mentorship?
• 44:12
  Mark Testa: Like what advice would you give somebody who really who is you you the Tennessee you saw has the potential to to keep doing this.
• 44:21
  Staci Hallmon: So I run it not only do I run my own business, but we are a family business.
• 44:26
  Staci Hallmon: My oldest son works for me um full time.
• 44:29
  Staci Hallmon: And so there are realities that he's teaching me in this process that I think are both you know mom focused and manager focused, right?
• 44:39
  Staci Hallmon: Um so there are things that he's teaching me, um but in terms of what I'm teaching him is the art of you know managing your no in a way.
• 44:54
  Staci Hallmon: You know, there are certainly things that he doesn't want to do in this business, right?
• 45:01
  Staci Hallmon: Or certain ways in which he wants to introduce his ideas, but there is still a level of uh respect um and some industry norms that he's learning in this process.
• 45:17
  Staci Hallmon: And it's my responsibility to teach him.
• 45:18
  Staci Hallmon: Sure.
• 45:19
  Staci Hallmon: And anyone who in my organization who has also had far more experience than him to teach him, what he brings to the table for us in a lot of ways is a unique perspective that is developed based on all of the tools of efficiency that he has had to work with in his short career.
• 45:38
  Staci Hallmon: Sure.
• 45:39
  Staci Hallmon: Part of that we be all night mindset was we didn't have all of these crap, efficient tools that could replace sounds horrible, but replace actual people and thinking minds.
• 45:51
  Staci Hallmon: Agreed, right?
• 45:52
  Staci Hallmon: Agreed.
• 45:53
  Staci Hallmon: And so he's able to help us in that way.
• 45:55
  Staci Hallmon: Um, but there still is a level of gravitas that that training allowed us to bring to a table that I'm also trying to um support and instilling in him, right?
• 46:08
  Staci Hallmon: That we are always uh completely buttoned up.
• 46:11
  Staci Hallmon: We're not gonna be perfect, but we strive for excellence.
• 46:14
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 46:14
  Staci Hallmon: So um I guess that to answer your question directly is creating an exchange with someone in this business where you can share your feedback with them as a young person or someone entering this space, but also and not but, but and ensure that there is an exchange of information and learning where you know a lot of this younger generation, Mark and Adrian, I'm sure you've experienced, is and of course not the three inners.
• 46:43
  Mark Testa: No, we don't we don't count pounds.
• 46:45
  Staci Hallmon: But they know everything.
• 46:46
  Staci Hallmon: They want to be know all.
• 46:48
  Staci Hallmon: Right?
• 46:48
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Staci Hallmon: And it's it's hard to pour in when your cup is full.
• 46:52
  Staci Hallmon: Yes.
• 46:53
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, it is hard to pour in when the cup is full.
• 46:56
  Adrianne Mellen: That I think to your point, Stacey, the for a a young person coming up wanting to be in this business, it is a humbling business.
• 47:04
  Adrianne Mellen: Yes.
• 47:05
  Mark Testa: Yes.
• 47:06
  Adrianne Mellen: This is not a glamorous business.
• 47:08
  Mark Testa: Although it looks if people think it from the outside.
• 47:10
  Adrianne Mellen: Well, it it looks it, but it's not.
• 47:13
  Adrianne Mellen: I mean, the event looks beautiful.
• 47:14
  Adrianne Mellen: What are we doing behind the scenes?
• 47:16
  Adrianne Mellen: Correct.
• 47:17
  Adrianne Mellen: Running around like, you know, actually walking very slowly.
• 47:20
  Adrianne Mellen: We do run the event.
• 47:21
  Adrianne Mellen: We are right, right.
• 47:22
  Adrianne Mellen: You're running around.
• 47:23
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, but it it is it is hard work, it's brack pain.
• 47:27
  Adrianne Mellen: There you're it's you never get to a place where you're like, well, I'm the CEO of the company, and so I'm not packing the box.
• 47:34
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 47:34
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 47:34
  Adrianne Mellen: Will never happen either.
• 47:36
  Adrianne Mellen: When I try I will be stuffing gift bags until I'm 90 years old if I stay in this business.
• 47:43
  Adrianne Mellen: And so there is a there is an extreme amount of humbleness that you have to have to want to be an event planner and to be a successful one.
• 47:55
  Adrianne Mellen: That's right.
• 47:56
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, and then I think the other thing too, very much to your point, Stacey, is with anybody who's coming in to work with me and work with my team at Propeller, um, you know, I do do a lot of listening and a lot of understanding what I know what my def my deficiencies are.
• 48:15
  Adrianne Mellen: I know what I'm not good at.
• 48:17
  Adrianne Mellen: And I am thrilled by the value that these younger people bring to me.
• 48:24
  Adrianne Mellen: Um so that mutual respect of you know, their abilities, my experience, like that is a very like fine dance.
• 48:38
  Adrianne Mellen: It it's it is finding the right person.
• 48:41
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Adrianne Mellen: I mean, we know it's hard and here we've got sweet and beautiful these women right here.
• 48:47
  Adrianne Mellen: Um, I'm so grateful.
• 48:48
  Adrianne Mellen: But like it finding those right people, it's a vet people are not a dime a dozen.
• 48:54
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 48:54
  Mark Testa: We we've learned to, you know, I mean, there's degrees and and things where you can.
• 48:59
  Mark Testa: Oh, I could care less than that.
• 49:01
  Mark Testa: It doesn't write it.
• 49:02
  Mark Testa: Does it mean anything until you're in it?
• 49:04
  Mark Testa: And you know for me, it's just you know, I think uh half is the communication skills too.
• 49:09
  Mark Testa: You know, we talk about the neurons like it's it's not just you know, just doing the physical I've learned the hard way, it's not just doing the physical work.
• 49:16
  Mark Testa: That's right.
• 49:16
  Mark Testa: Because you think I'm working hard.
• 49:18
  Mark Testa: No, it's not it's it's the it's the continuous communication with your client, with the guest, with your boss.
• 49:23
  Mark Testa: What yeah that can because if you without the communication and and that collaboration is not happening.
• 49:30
  Staci Hallmon: Yeah.
• 49:30
  Mark Testa: I mean it may look great, but you know, so what would you tell the next generation?
• 49:33
  Mark Testa: Yeah, it would be the collaboration.
• 49:35
  Mark Testa: I I I've I've said, you know, you don't don't you gotta be out there, you gotta be able to communicate with with me.
• 49:41
  Mark Testa: Yeah.
• 49:41
  Mark Testa: You're tired, you don't want to do this.
• 49:43
  Mark Testa: You've got to tell me the truth.
• 49:46
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah.
• 49:47
  Mark Testa: You know, tell the truth of the client, you know, or if you're not feeling it, tell me, you know, I've I've looking across the room again.
• 49:52
  Mark Testa: But you know, to tell me if you don't want to do this because I don't want to push you.
• 49:56
  Mark Testa: I don't want to, I don't want to put in a situation where you regret it and you're you burned out or whatever.
• 50:00
  Mark Testa: Because we're not doing that anymore.
• 50:02
  Mark Testa: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:02
  Mark Testa: You know, I think going back to the the the Condi Nath days where you just kind of you were just happy to be in the room.
• 50:08
  Mark Testa: And it's like, you know, all those half of them are all burned out anyway now.
• 50:11
  Mark Testa: Yeah, okay.
• 50:12
  Mark Testa: Just just you know, be honest with yourself.
• 50:16
  Mark Testa: I've had people say to me who have gone through a program, and I've said this before on another podcast, who've actually gone through uh events programs in a at a major university who's actually said I had to after redoing an event with us or doing an event with us that she had to rethink her her her degree.
• 50:35
  Mark Testa: I'm like, I I'm sad to hear that that you spent all this money.
• 50:39
  Mark Testa: You could have asked me, but I didn't this is the real world.
• 50:42
  Mark Testa: You don't it's not gonna get any easier than this.
• 50:46
  Mark Testa: Or you know, it might be you might can you can you can stay with it and find your your niche, maybe.
• 50:52
  Mark Testa: Or you can do sales, what you'll find your niche.
• 50:55
  Mark Testa: Just this may not be it.
• 50:56
  Mark Testa: Yeah, but understand that that uh you know it's it's about that communication, it's about the hard work and and it's but it's also great.
• 51:04
  Mark Testa: So it's rewarding.
• 51:06
  Adrianne Mellen: PSA, you cannot learn to be in this business in the classroom.
• 51:10
  Adrianne Mellen: No.
• 51:10
  Adrianne Mellen: Got to be in the field, you've got to be working with smart people, you gotta get out and do it.
• 51:16
  Adrianne Mellen: Right.
• 51:16
  Adrianne Mellen: That's just I mean, I I hate to giggle when somebody tells me that they went to college for event planning, but I giggle.
• 51:23
  Mark Testa: Oh, their certificate.
• 51:23
  Mark Testa: I mean, I giggle.
• 51:25
  Staci Hallmon: Right.
• 51:25
  Staci Hallmon: It sounds typically hands-on business.
• 51:27
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, yes, yeah, and I'm like, show me, show me what clubs you went, show me what fundraisers you did.
• 51:34
  Adrianne Mellen: I don't care if you sat on the city.
• 51:36
  Adrianne Mellen: How much you enjoyed it, right?
• 51:37
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, and and the and how much you enjoyed it.
• 51:40
  Adrianne Mellen: Oh my god, that's so good, so good.
• 51:42
  Mark Testa: Like, did you enjoy that late night?
• 51:44
  Mark Testa: If you didn't enjoy that late night, yeah, you're not going to be easy to be.
• 51:47
  Mark Testa: And and going back and circling back as high as the idea of Civiam will say, no, this is not right for me.
• 51:55
  Mark Testa: I'm okay with it.
• 51:56
  Mark Testa: You know, it's not well, it's let's find the right fit as as owners of our company and producers, we have to be able to say no.
• 52:03
  Mark Testa: We expect our people to say no too.
• 52:05
  Adrianne Mellen: Yeah, definitely.
• 52:06
  Mark Testa: All right.
• 52:06
  Mark Testa: So this has all been amazing.
• 52:08
  Mark Testa: I thank you guys.
• 52:09
  Mark Testa: This has been so much fun.
• 52:10
  Mark Testa: Um I I want people to revisit the podcast that Adrian and Stacy have both been on.
• 52:15
  Mark Testa: You can hear a little bit more about what the stuff they're doing.
• 52:18
  Mark Testa: Um, if you like what you hear, we're gonna try to do more of these in different topics.
• 52:22
  Mark Testa: If there's a topic you want to hear, we'll put stuff in the notes.
• 52:25
  Mark Testa: But if you want to give some feedback, please, please do so.
• 52:28
  Mark Testa: Thank you guys.
• 52:28
  Mark Testa: Thank you.
• 52:29
  Adrianne Mellen: Daniel Mark Testa, we love being with you.
• 52:31
  Adrianne Mellen: Thank you for listening.
• 52:33
  Adrianne Mellen: Be sure to sign up for our email newsletter at markstevenagency.com and subscribe and comment on your favorite podcast app.
• 52:40
  Adrianne Mellen: This is creating the perfect experience where passion meets inspiration.