Latest / The Future Herd / 16: Holding Agriculture Together in Manitoba with Colin Hornby

Transcript

16: Holding Agriculture Together in Manitoba with Colin Hornby · The Future Herd

0:01
Jesse Hirsh: Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsh.
0:04
Welcome to the Future Herd.
0:10
Manitoba has a way of clarifying things, flat geography, open
0:16
exposure, long supply lines.
0:19
When something shifts, weather prices policy, it doesn't get absorbed quietly.
0:25
It shows up quickly and it shows up on the farm.
0:30
That's the context Colin Hornby is working in at Keystone Agricultural Producers.
0:36
Not an abstract AgriFood system, but a province where grain, livestock,
0:42
transport, and trade all intersect under conditions that don't leave much room for
0:48
air flood one year drought, the next rail bottlenecks, input costs that arrive from
0:56
somewhere else but land here at home.
1:00
What comes through in this conversation is how that environment shapes decision
1:04
making, not just at the farm level, but inside an organisation like cap
1:10
that has to represent producers who don't all want the same things but
1:15
are exposed to many of the same risks.
1:19
In this episode, we talk about how policy travels from Ottawa
1:23
into places like Manitoba and where and how it loses coherence.
1:28
Along the way, we get into the mechanics of risk management and what happens when
1:34
the program's meant to stabilise the system start lagging behind the conditions
1:40
they're meant to address, and we stay with a simple but difficult question.
1:45
What does it mean to advocate for a sector when the ground it stands on keeps moving?
1:52
This isn't a conversation about where agriculture is going.
1:56
It's about what it looks like in a place where the future has already
2:00
arrived, just not necessarily evenly.
2:05
Now, a quick note on the audio quality.
2:09
Colin only had one earbud in.
2:11
So as a consequence, uh, Hy Stereo is only one side of the
2:19
channel apologises for this.
2:22
But, you know, an agricultural podcast, sometimes it's the
2:27
knowledge that matters most.
2:29
Alright, let's listen.
2:32
Colin, welcome to The Future Herd.
2:34
Colin Hornby (KAP): Thanks Jesse.
2:34
Pleasure to be here.
2:36
Jesse Hirsh: Now, uh, the first question that I love to throw at
2:38
my guests, uh, really designed as a kind of curve ball to put you,
2:42
uh, on your back, feet, back, feet.
2:45
What does the future mean to you?
2:48
Colin Hornby (KAP): Opportunity.
2:50
The future's gonna be filled with issues and challenges like, uh,
2:53
like the current times are, but there's always a silver lining.
2:57
Um, I think, I think there's always opportunities.
3:00
We just need to find them and, uh, you?
3:02
know, also how do we make things better than they have been for us?
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I'm a new-ish parent.
3:09
and I had our first child, uh, last summer, and that's been an adventure and
3:14
I think wanting to leave a world a better place than what I came into it for My.
3:19
and children, we'll see what happens.
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But, um, I think that's ultimately a personal goal of mine and
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I think that's something we can all do in our professional
3:26
lives to try and advance things.
3:27
I mean, agriculture, we're already seeing, people talking about drones.
3:32
We've been talking about them for years now, and it's, we're starting to see
3:35
finally some movement around regulations and what is that gonna look like.
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So that is, the future is now, Right But it's, that's one of those
3:43
opportunities we can harness, uh, to see how we can make things better with it.
3:47
Right.
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
3:49
And, and now that you bring up the subject, for sure, I want to talk
3:52
drones with you today only 'cause I have yet to have the opportunity in,
3:56
in the episodes we've done so far.
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But the second question that's been on the front of my mind as I've been kind of
4:02
preparing, uh, for our chat and thinking about what I wanted to talk about is.
4:07
Is to talk about Manitoba.
4:09
And I say that in such a broad, sweeping way, but I kind of feel that
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when you look at the Canadian AgriFood sector, Manitoba's the powerhouse,
4:20
that doesn't get the respect that it deserves because on the one hand
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you got Alberta and Saskatchewan who love to like throw themselves around.
4:29
Tell everyone how great they are, which is legit and fair.
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And then you got Ontario, which kind of thinks that it's the centre of the
4:38
universe and kind of acts that way.
4:40
And in the middle you got Manitoba, where I certainly know from my own experience,
4:46
there's some phenomenal innovation going on within the agricultural sector.
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I use the word powerhouse, not lightly, because Manitoba really does globally
4:59
kind of swing above its weight class.
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So am I right in thinking that you guys don't get the respect that you deserve?
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And, and let's start our chat out by, by giving our audience a sense of, of
5:12
why Manitoba really is a player globally when it comes to the AgriFood sector
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and in particular, AgriFood innovation.
5:22
Colin Hornby (KAP): I mean, I think, uh, I think depends who you talk to, right?
5:26
You're right.
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Ontario thinks it's its own.
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The centre of the world, the centre of Canada.
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We're actually the centre of Canada.
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Landmark, Manitoba is the centre of Canada.
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Right.
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I live near there.
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So, um.
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We're the second largest, uh, grower of potatoes in Canada.
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People think about PEI, no shade at PEI, listeners, but
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we're number two behind Alberta.
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So I think that we do a very good job where we have Emily,
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the enterprise machine, uh, Institute, learning Institute.
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I'm gonna get that wrong, but Emily's Innovation Farms
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site is housed in Manitoba.
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That's a hub of innovation.
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We have.
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The Glen Lee research station hosts, the Bruce Campbell Farm
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and Food Discovery Centre.
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It's an opportunity where we have academia, we have industry, we have
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government all working in one place to act as a centre for education.
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We brought people from across Canada to the Farm and Food Discovery Centre
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last summer, and people were blown away at this uh, functioning farm that
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we use as an educational tool and.
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You know, it is like Rodney Dangerfield, no respect, right?
6:30
Like sometimes we do feel that way, uh, in Manitoba.
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So I think
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we are a leader in that space.
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We're we're getting more into, um, other types of agriculture.
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We have a massive Vermilion growers in Dolphin has a new greenhouse in the north.
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know, in the, in, uh, that region of the province.
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So I think there's, uh,
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Jesse Hirsh: I think
6:48
Colin Hornby (KAP): of things that we have to be proud of.
6:49
There's a lot of talk about Churchill.
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What's the opportunity at the Port of Churchill?
6:53
So I think, uh,
6:55
Jesse Hirsh: yeah,
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Colin Hornby (KAP): we
6:56
Jesse Hirsh: also.
6:57
Colin Hornby (KAP): in Manitoba when it comes to attracting labour.
7:00
It's an affordable province relative to others.
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When we look at house prices relative to what you can make in the job.
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I think that's something else.
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We have the University of Manitoba, which is a great institution.
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I'm an alumni, I'm biassed.
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We have Red River College, uh, Polytech.
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We have all these institutions.
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We have so much to be proud of here.
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We're the core of the grain trading, um, hub of Canada.
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We have the grain exchange with the exchange area.
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We have great restaurants.
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Another thing.
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So I think all that's to say manitoba's a great place.
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I'm from here.
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I've lived here except for a few years of my life.
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So.
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Manito.
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
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And, and I do want to talk about the Keystone agricultural producers
7:39
in, in the context that kind of manitoba's uh, uh, ongoing leadership,
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ongoing, uh, vision for the future.
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But I do wanna take a moment to talk about your kind of professional background.
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'cause it's quite impressive.
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A and I say this, you know, not just because you, you have all the key
7:58
ingredients of providing the kind of experience for a leader to have.
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But because you've been engaged in the policy world, in the political world,
8:08
and one of the through lines of our podcast is we want more people to do that.
8:12
We want more people to see policy as a fun, cool place to really have
8:17
an impact and to not treat politics like a dirty word, but to your
8:22
point, like an opportunity, right?
8:24
Because it really is kind of what you make of it.
8:27
So gimme a bit of your lore, gimme a bit of your backstory.
8:31
'cause you know, certainly what I was scoping you.
8:33
And looking on your LinkedIn, I was like, I'm really excited to talk to this guy.
8:37
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah.
8:37
No, I appreciate that.
8:38
And I mean, something I've always been, I mean, I've always been
8:40
attracted to politics my whole life.
8:42
I go back to being, gosh, I don't know what year it would've been like I was
8:46
thinking about this leading up to our conversation, my first distinct memory of.
8:50
Politics was when John Kerry ran against George Bush.
8:54
That is the first time I started to kind of click into like
8:56
politics as a thing in my head.
8:59
I remember Barack Obama getting elected.
9:01
I remember Stephen Harper getting like the majority, all these
9:04
different things that have happened.
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Right?
9:06
So for me, I mean, going through high school, I kind of always had that
9:09
little itch getting into university.
9:12
I never really thought there was a way to to, to monetize that.
9:16
Interest.
9:18
yeah, I went to U of M, university of Manitoba.
9:21
I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
9:23
I wanted to be a sports agent.
9:24
I wanted be a lawyer, and I wanted to be a teacher.
9:27
You know, I couldn't really
9:28
Jesse Hirsh: I
9:28
Colin Hornby (KAP): it out.
9:28
I went and I got, uh, I took a year or two.
9:31
I went to Red River College at the time to my human resource
9:34
management, uh, training.
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Worked in HR for about six years for an hr, uh, consultant,
9:41
HR firm, and got involved,
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Jesse Hirsh: got involved.
9:44
Uh.
9:45
Colin Hornby (KAP): for the.
9:46
Progressive conservative party and the federal conservative party of Canada.
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So I did some stuff there.
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I was able to get hired on a campaign for a federal campaign then, uh,
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was, was working as well as an intern at the provincial party.
9:59
So that was sort of dipping my toe into it.
10:01
Some people took a chance on me and I was, I'm forever thankful to them.
10:05
Uh, from there I was able to get a job at the legislature working in
10:08
the, uh, government caucus, uh, caucus chair and government whips office.
10:13
So doing a lot of that sort of legislative stuff.
10:16
Then I
10:16
went over to Ottawa to work for a couple years for a member of Parliament
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from Winnipeg, Marty Morantz, who is a good friend of mine still to this day.
10:23
And then went back to the Premier's office here in Manitoba and got to be
10:26
the manager of legislative affairs.
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So that whole, I mean, being involved.
10:29
in politics is something that really gets me outta bed.
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Um, something that was interesting, but, you know, I did wanna change in
10:36
my life after doing that for a few years, and I saw the job at CAP as
10:39
a and stakeholder relations manager.
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I took that on, was able to do some government relations there, and.
10:45
Uh.
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ultimately when my predecessor moved on to another job, I applied and
10:49
went through the process and was successful in, in this endeavour.
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So this is where I sit today.
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
10:56
And, and before we get to Cap, I wanted to unpack something you kind of glossed
11:00
over there that I think is important.
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'cause another one of the pieces I keep looking for when I chat with people is
11:07
kind of w. What gave them the skills to be the leaders they are today?
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And, and you kind of described it in terms of your political experience and your
11:16
legislative experience, but, but spell it out like what were the kind of skills
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that you kind of got from that experience?
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'cause I, I say this in the sense that it's remarkable how many leaders,
11:28
both in the sector but across Canada.
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Had that kind of formative experience that started off as volunteering,
11:37
but then ended up in really interesting, unique opportunities
11:41
where I think you learn stuff.
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You're not gonna learn at any school, university of Manitoba side.
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Clearly that did have a positive impact on you, but gimme a sense of
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what the things you learned in the political life that are, are, are
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not really available anywhere else.
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Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, I mean, I think, uh, other duties as assigned,
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you know, everybody sees that on a job description and then you really
12:04
understand that when you do that job, it's, uh, all encompassing.
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Uh, you really have to believe in the cause in order to be in those jobs, right?
12:12
Because at the end of the day, everybody in those types of roles is working
12:17
together towards one common goal.
12:19
And I think it really underscores that importance in a team setting.
12:22
I would say also, um, football, playing football, I played through,
12:28
uh, high school and coached afterwards.
12:30
I
12:31
Jesse Hirsh: I.
12:31
Colin Hornby (KAP): for eight years or so.
12:33
I lost track of it.
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uh, coaching sports has delivered so many lessons to me.
12:38
I think understanding that servant leadership mindset, a, being as a
12:43
leader, your role is not to advance your own interests or to advance.
12:48
Anyone in particular, it's to support those around you because you want
12:51
to get people that are better than you at particular tasks and you
12:54
wanna support them to be successful.
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'cause ultimately that's what's important.
12:58
Um, so, and, and something else.
13:00
in politics that too, I.
13:01
always have sort of been interested in is, is the idea that politics
13:04
is the art of the possible.
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So
13:07
Jesse Hirsh: Focused.
13:07
I don't,
13:08
Colin Hornby (KAP): it's not a science.
13:08
Like yes, there's political scientists and they'll talk about things, but at
13:12
the end of the day, it's an art too.
13:14
It's how do we get things done?
13:16
Building coalitions.
13:17
In, in the, in the role I was in, in the legislature, I
13:21
Jesse Hirsh: I hate that.
13:21
Colin Hornby (KAP): uh, work with other parties to advance
13:24
priorities in the chamber.
13:26
So it was working with the opposition party to say, okay, you know, you
13:31
have to have a positive relationship with them and talk about what
13:33
you're doing and what they're doing.
13:34
What are your plans?
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And sort of, okay, if we want to get this advance, we're on a time constraint.
13:38
What can we do for you?
13:39
Sort of that bargaining.
13:41
Um, so I think there's that collaborative part too where
13:44
yes, you don't agree with that.
13:45
person, but they're not your enemy.
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They're there doing their job.
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They believe in something, you believe in something, and it's just a matter of
13:52
how do we advance our respective agendas?
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'cause everybody can win in a lot of these instances.
13:56
So, uh, those are some of the things I think that I would say I've, I've learned
13:59
from that as well as the coaching piece
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
14:03
And, and that I think very much fits with the values of, of the agricultural sector,
14:08
of the AgriFood sector because I think there is a desire for, for, for everyone
14:14
to work together to find that kind of commonality that really empowers people.
14:19
And, and I will admit, one of the things that I love a, about this particular
14:23
gig of hosting this podcast is learning about organisations like CAP and learning
14:27
about the organisations that kind of support the sector across the country.
14:32
So, uh, again, for those of us in Ontario who have been burdened by our own
14:38
insularity, uh, uh, uh, help me understand cap, uh, both its kind of general
14:44
history, but also its current focus in terms of what your priorities are.
14:48
In terms of the role that the organisation plays in the sector.
14:52
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, so CAP was, uh, founded in 1984, so we
14:56
celebrated 40 years recently.
14:59
we started off in sort of a different format.
15:02
It was a door to door selling memberships, but we became, uh, the certified
15:06
organisation for Manitoba farmers.
15:08
We're a general farm group.
15:10
focus is around ensuring a prosperous future for all Manitoba farmers.
15:14
So we, we are that general farm group policy organisation.
15:18
If you're in Ontario, think OFA, we're just like OFA in that regard.
15:22
So we're focused on policy.
15:24
How do we bring people together?
15:25
How do we find areas of alignment?
15:27
And, uh, figuring out what's good for the goose is good for the gander, kind
15:32
of, if you think about it that way.
15:34
Um, again,
15:35
Jesse Hirsh: Again,
15:36
Colin Hornby (KAP): that
15:36
Jesse Hirsh: that was
15:36
Colin Hornby (KAP): future for, for all farmers.
15:39
It's not
15:40
Jesse Hirsh: about.
15:41
Colin Hornby (KAP): just one type of a farmer or one crop or one
15:45
livestock, uh, type of livestock.
15:48
all farmers, and that's who we're here to serve.
15:51
We're directed by farmers.
15:53
Our board is farmers.
15:54
They're elected by their fellow farmers.
15:56
So that is sort of the structure.
15:58
We have 12 districts.
16:00
also have four other, um, commodity seats on our board.
16:04
So one is to represent.
16:05
Red meat groups.
16:06
One is for greensville season pulse groups.
16:08
Another is for specialty crops and another is for supply management.
16:12
So I mean, that's another component as being a general farm group.
16:15
You know, there is a lot of talk in the trade space right now around is Canada
16:20
going to bargain or put up when these negotiations, if that's what we come to.
16:26
is some sentiments around supply management.
16:29
Should it be on the table, should it not be on the table.
16:32
we
16:32
Jesse Hirsh: you've.
16:33
Colin Hornby (KAP): that are supply managed, so that is important to us.
16:36
We put forward a trade action plan to the province of Manitoba,
16:39
and one of the things in there is around respecting the diversity of
16:42
Manitoba's agricultural production, one of those being supply management.
16:46
So.
16:48
All that to
16:48
Jesse Hirsh: Hold on.
16:49
Colin Hornby (KAP): Um, we're looking at, at, at what are policy changes,
16:53
regulatory changes, things like that where we can help, uh, that
16:56
would be good for, for all farmers.
16:59
We see ourselves as well as, uh, we provide benefits as well to our,
17:02
to our members around discounts and insurance and all that type of stuff.
17:06
So we are structured in a way, a bit like a chamber of commerce.
17:10
So how do we provide that value?
17:13
What is the value proposition to our members?
17:15
And, uh, something else that's really important, uh, to me is not, yes,
17:20
it's important that we advocate for farmers, but we have to advocate for
17:22
the sector because if processors are going to succeed, yes, it can be at
17:28
the expense of farmers, but if they can both succeed, well, that's a win to us.
17:31
So we work with parts of the value.
17:35
We don't just talk to farmers.
17:36
So that's very important to us.
17:38
And we're also members of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, so that
17:41
is sort of our national voice.
17:42
So we do try to
17:43
Jesse Hirsh: Private case.
17:44
Colin Hornby (KAP): lane, but ultimately there are issues that do
17:47
enter our space that are federal.
17:49
So we do work across jurisdictions, municipal issues as well around like
17:53
bylaws, zoning, use, planning, et cetera.
17:56
So a lot of things, a lot of problems, a lot of issues, a lot of opportunities.
18:00
Alluding to what I said earlier, I think right now.
18:04
One of the big things is we're seeing how do we navigate this new federal
18:07
government with Prime Minister Kearney?
18:09
We have seen a, um, I would say an improvement from the previous
18:13
administration around, um, being receptive to feedback changes.
18:18
Uh, so that has been positive for us.
18:21
And of course, trade is top of mind.
18:23
That's all we talk about.
18:24
I'll be going to Washington next week.
18:27
As part of another conference, but extending that a bit to do
18:30
some, some discussions with, um, some American groups.
18:33
So, uh, very important to, to nurture that relationship with the US and Mexico.
18:38
We've been down to Mexico as well, so there's a lot going on.
18:43
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and, and I definitely want to kind of tap
18:46
your brain around the leadership challenges of having such a diverse.
18:50
Set of constituents, especially to your point about the supply management folks
18:54
versus potentially the grain folks and any differences they might have.
18:58
But to your point about, you know, thinking about trade and
19:01
thinking about federal policy, what would you identify as.
19:06
Like specific Manitoba issues compared to issues that might apply
19:11
to the sector as a whole or might apply to grain farmers as a whole?
19:16
Like, I, I, I'm, I, I'm assuming that there are elements specific either
19:21
to your industries or even to your geography that kinda give you a different
19:27
perspective when you're sitting at the table with the CFA or when you're
19:30
sitting in, in Washington kind of looking at the larger continental picture.
19:36
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, I think for us, I mean one of the challenges
19:38
is our proximity to port, right?
19:40
We're in the centre.
19:41
I mean, the Port of Churchill is an interesting opportunity,
19:44
but it's not something that's gonna happen in the next year.
19:47
Um, and there's questions around, you know, how will that
19:50
impact agricultural exports?
19:52
Um, and whether or not it will be impactful enough.
19:54
So for us, it's obviously Vancouver Thunder Bay.
19:57
Um, those are kind of.
19:58
We're, we're at the mercy of those, so we gotta go a long way to get stuff.
20:02
So that, for us is more unique than, say, BC producers.
20:06
Um, looking at it from a, at a provincial jurisdictional level, we
20:11
have unique tax challenges in Manitoba that other provinces don't have.
20:15
So we have a decentralised, um, property tax structure where we have
20:20
locally elected authorities, school trustees that are setting the rate.
20:25
For taxation on property tax, uh, for farmland school tax.
20:28
So, um, there has been, over the last few years, the previous
20:32
government brought in, uh, to reduce that every year over 10 years.
20:38
So we're kind of stuck at 50% and it's stayed there.
20:41
So there is a 50% reduction that people do get back as a credit.
20:45
But, uh, something that that we do have is the model we have.
20:49
And again, something CAP is one of the founding issues I think.
20:52
Going back into the eighties was this structure and the disproportionate impact
20:56
that we see farmland, uh, paying farmers, paying on, on tax relative to urban
21:03
users or urban, uh, rate payers rather.
21:06
So, uh, I would say that's a uniquely Manitoba issue.
21:09
We do have some challenges.
21:11
Were very flat, with water, water management, there are
21:15
some, some different rules.
21:17
Uh, drainage is a, is a topic that came up at our last annual
21:20
meeting from our members.
21:21
In a
21:22
Jesse Hirsh: Right,
21:23
Colin Hornby (KAP): uh,
21:23
Jesse Hirsh: right.
21:24
Colin Hornby (KAP): areas in the province.
21:25
So something we're sort of, uh, working through now with
21:28
producers and municipalities in the province and other stakeholders.
21:32
Um, so I think those are some of the, uh, I would say issues, uh,
21:37
in the potato sector as well.
21:38
I mean, I think it's 97% of our, um, processed potatoes go to the
21:44
us So the importance of, uh, open trade with the US through Kuzma.
21:49
one that's very, very top of mind for us in the potato sector as well
21:54
Jesse Hirsh: Well, that's hard.
21:55
Colin Hornby (KAP): footprint in the pork sector.
21:56
So we ship a lot of live weanlings into the us.
22:00
We have agreements going into Iowa and Minnesota and other places like that.
22:03
So, uh, country of origin labelling in the US and Proposition 12 outta California.
22:08
These are issues that very strongly impact us as a pork producing province.
22:12
So, um, I think those would be some of the, maybe.
22:16
Things that are at the top, top of our mind when we talk about
22:20
sort of things that maybe we're a little, we care significantly about.
22:25
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and, and when you mentioned the kind of access to ports
22:28
immediately, uh, I thought of highways into the US that, that, that is a
22:33
kind of transportation infrastructure that, uh, I'm assuming to your point,
22:38
that Manitoba's benefited from, you know, the country of origin stuff
22:42
does seem to be a particularly, uh, uh, important issue, a variable.
22:48
Given how it doesn't, it doesn't really, it's, I, I, I'm getting all sorts of
22:53
signals how that's gonna play out.
22:55
I, I'd love for you to elaborate on that and highlight some of the other things
22:59
that you, you're gonna be focusing on when you head south, you know, both in terms
23:03
of kind of building natural alliances.
23:06
We do have lots of friends in the US AgriFood sector who work
23:11
with us, who depend upon us.
23:12
So I, I'd love to hear your thoughts on, on how you're reaching out to them.
23:17
But to your point, what are the priorities And, and I'd love
23:19
for you to start by elaborating on the country of origin stuff.
23:22
'cause I think for those paying attention, they understand how important it is.
23:27
But it seems one of those things that could be lost on members of the sector,
23:30
let alone the general public who aren't following this particular important issue.
23:36
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, so I think if you talk about V Cool, we call it
23:38
voluntary country of origin labelling, which is a, a policy brought in by
23:42
USDA, um, basically says if you wanna be labelled as a product of USA, you have to
23:51
comply with certain requirements around.
23:54
The animal has to go from birth all the way through to packaging in America.
24:01
So given the integration of the supply chain with Canada and the US and pork,
24:06
this is the example we always give.
24:07
And I wanna give a shout out to Cam DOL for Manitoba Pork, who has been a
24:11
leader in this as well as the Prop 12.
24:13
And we're very, uh, lucky in Manitoba to have Cam working on the pork file.
24:17
He's been phenomenal with his team at Manitoba pork.
24:21
Um, Right now products can say product of USA or not now because as of January
24:27
this came into place, but prior to the VCO rules, it could say product of USA,
24:33
even if it was originated from Manitoba and the rest of the steps were in the us.
24:37
So the concern is that even though it's voluntary, um, if you have large,
24:43
big box stores, supermarkets who say, you know what, no, we want to comply.
24:48
We're only gonna buy pork that meets this requirement.
24:51
That's a problem because the producers in the us, the pork
24:54
producers rely on Manitoba.
24:56
And another thing is our genetics are, are globally known that Manitoba
25:01
has the best swine genetics, or some of the best, I'm gonna say the best,
25:05
the best swine genetics in the world.
25:07
In particular in markets like in Japan, where they look out for or they, they
25:10
seek out our Um, the American pork producers do not like this policy.
25:20
we have, as to your point, we have friends in America, uh, who are supportive.
25:25
We, so, so the v cool issue is one that for sure that that's kind of the
25:29
impact is if these American producers can no longer purchase their weanlings
25:32
from Canada, there's nowhere else for them to get them at this point.
25:36
So it would cause a huge problem.
25:38
So this is something that they know in the us the Americans know, um, and I think
25:42
it's a matter of working through these issues and, uh, I'm hopeful that there'll
25:46
be a resolution, but I'm not sure.
25:48
So that's one of the big issues I think.
25:50
Um, we also try to maintain strong on, go
25:54
Jesse Hirsh: Just on that point, it correct me, me if I'm wrong, is, is
25:58
the larger American issue, not so much concern about Canadian, but rather
26:03
South American imports that it, it feels to me like we're kind of getting
26:08
caught in this larger policy sweep when the industry absolutely wants to
26:15
be working with us, but the fear is.
26:18
Cheap imports, not from Canada, but from elsewhere in the world.
26:22
A am I reading that correctly?
26:25
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, I would say that's a fair, uh,
26:27
that's a fair assessment.
26:28
Um, Canada's not really the big concern in our opinion.
26:32
Um, know, our quality's very high.
26:36
We work well with them.
26:37
They rely on us, as I mentioned earlier.
26:39
So I think, uh, yeah, I think that's right.
26:42
And it's another thing, it's this almost food nationalism idea where we're seeing
26:47
this, there's a strong, economic populist nationalist sort of sentiment in the us.
26:53
This has been coming, this has been happening for many years.
26:56
just didn't just sneak up on us.
26:58
Um, when President Trump was elected.
27:00
This has been ongoing.
27:02
So I think, uh, it's part of a broader sort of national mentality around,
27:08
look, if we think about it as a Canadian too, how many Canadians do
27:11
you talk to who say, well, I wanna buy
27:13
Jesse Hirsh: Byproduct.
27:14
Colin Hornby (KAP): I want something that says product of Canada.
27:17
And that's as far as a lot of consumers are thinking as well, I
27:19
wanna support local farmers in Canada.
27:22
I would rather my money stay here.
27:24
And I mean, sure, that's a good sentiment.
27:26
I understand it.
27:27
But, uh, the
27:29
Jesse Hirsh: the integration
27:30
Colin Hornby (KAP): of our countries.
27:32
You know, I
27:33
Jesse Hirsh: pretty,
27:34
Colin Hornby (KAP): would, would prefer to support a Canadian farmer.
27:37
Right.
27:38
But if I know, I mean, 'cause I understand a bit more around the supply chain
27:41
and how these things get to the shelf.
27:43
know
27:43
Jesse Hirsh: I know there's a.
27:45
Colin Hornby (KAP): support and Canadian inputs into the
27:46
whole product in many instances.
27:48
So, yeah, I think you're right.
27:52
Jesse Hirsh: Sorry, you were gonna talk about some of the other stuff you were
27:54
gonna focus on, uh, communicating and, and conveying when you were in the states.
28:00
Colin Hornby (KAP): So, so the, the interesting thing is, is understanding.
28:04
So we, uh, have been supporters of the, it's an organisation called sorl.
28:09
It's the State AG Rural Leaders.
28:12
Uh, it's an organisation based out of the us but they have
28:15
American and Canadian legislators.
28:17
And every year.
28:18
There's something called the Ag Chair Summit and it rotates different spots.
28:22
So we sponsor that event and we were down in Des Moines two years
28:26
ago and then, or last year I guess, and this year we were in um, uh,
28:31
new Orleans and it's an opportunity to talk with American legislators.
28:35
We sent a Canadian delegation, um.
28:37
It's, it's a great place to have that discussion and, and the more
28:40
we talk, we look at the agenda and they have what's called speed dating.
28:45
the speed dating sessions are, let's talk about land use policy
28:51
taxation policy and urban sprawl and all these different things.
28:56
you sit down with somebody from Kansas and I'm from Manitoba,
29:00
which, you know, sometimes people aren't sure where that is.
29:04
And it's like, oh yeah, we have the same problem.
29:07
Like I think it's getting across like, you know, we have the same problems.
29:12
I think also this is feedback we've heard from who are trade professionals.
29:18
We've heard this from Ambassador Hetra feed extra as well, that
29:23
shouldn't be going to the US and saying, why are you being mean to us?
29:27
You're hurting our feelings.
29:29
Well that doesn't, doesn't sell in America.
29:32
It's.
29:33
We're here to
29:34
Jesse Hirsh: Here.
29:35
Colin Hornby (KAP): why Canada is a great trade partner for America,
29:37
and what can we give to you?
29:39
How can you benefit from us?
29:42
is what we need to be doing.
29:44
I think we also need to make sure that we're coordinating as a sector and across
29:47
industries too, to say what are those key messages that we're talking about?
29:52
And I mean, we're trying to do this also in an environment of the midterms.
29:57
So it's really hard because they're congressmen and women.
30:01
Senators are focused on one thing, two things, getting elect reelected and
30:06
raising money, and those go hand in hand.
30:08
So think, um, we also need to be mindful of that.
30:12
So right
30:13
Jesse Hirsh: Right now.
30:13
Colin Hornby (KAP): not about specific issues, it's maybe more
30:16
about relationships, commonality, expanding our networks.
30:21
but yeah, those pinch points in Uzma, I think we've called for a renewal of
30:25
the agreement along with a hundred.
30:27
I think there was a hundred or so of US groups in Canada, there was 116 groups
30:31
in the US farm groups have all talked about, let's renew the agreement, let's
30:35
move forward, let's deal with some of the more, you know, the regulatory
30:39
challenges through things like the Regulatory Cooperation Council, which
30:42
is intended to deal with those things.
30:45
Um, and through other dialogue, one-off agreements, whatever it may be.
30:49
So I think, you know, we can say yes.
30:53
Um, you know, Kuzma has been successful.
30:56
This administration has negotiated a good deal.
30:58
Uzma has been successful
31:00
Jesse Hirsh: Seven.
31:00
One second.
31:01
Colin Hornby (KAP): like NAFTA was.
31:02
We dealt with some of the challenges.
31:04
Let's renew it.
31:05
Let's move forward, let's continue to be trading partners.
31:08
And, uh, that's kind of the, the, the focus.
31:12
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
31:13
And I mean, you, you said something earlier that I want to come back to
31:17
and, and this is to give you a heads up.
31:19
I, I, I do want to talk about kind of the regulatory environment
31:22
and regulatory obstacles.
31:24
But there is this kind of holy grail within the agricultural sector of
31:29
getting everyone on the same page, uh, of kind of getting everyone speaking
31:33
with a kind of unity and focus.
31:36
And you've been evoking that, uh, uh, throughout our conversation today.
31:40
And, and I'm curious how.
31:42
Cap with the diverse, uh, sub-sector organisations, the diverse farmers,
31:49
and uh, o other organisations who are part of your network, part of your
31:53
ecosystem, how do you accomplish that?
31:56
Like, what's your strategy?
31:58
Either in getting everyone to focus on a key priority or a key initiative
32:04
so you have that kind of clarity.
32:06
Or conversely, managing differences and making sure that people do have
32:11
a sense that they're in it together.
32:14
'cause again, it, I kind of sense you're taking that for granted, and maybe
32:18
it's because it's something that you do so regularly, you just kind of assume
32:22
that it's part of your repertoire.
32:25
But I think it is a difficult challenge for a lot of sectoral leaders,
32:29
especially in this moment of uncertainty where, whether it's the regulatory
32:33
environment, whether it's the trade environment, it just feels like
32:36
anything could change at any moment.
32:38
And getting people to focus on the same thing, to be on the same team,
32:43
uh, it can be kind of challenging.
32:46
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, that's an understatement.
32:47
Like that's, that's the challenge we deal with every day, I think, is finding those.
32:53
What are the things like, 'cause we're not going to deal, like, we're
32:56
not gonna find a position on every issue that everybody agrees with.
32:59
It's just not, it'd be a fool to say that.
33:02
So I think, I think a big part of it is being accessible to our members,
33:07
being accessible to different groups, constantly looking for coalitions,
33:11
not just within agriculture, but outside of agriculture too.
33:14
We've worked with the oil and gas sector on different issues.
33:17
To advance common interests.
33:19
Um, you know, there's forestry, there's other sectors that
33:22
deal with similar problems.
33:23
Regulatory burden, for example, is something that every industry deals
33:28
with, So how do we, how do we learn from each other for how in our respective
33:34
sectors we're able to get that sort of regulatory reform or improvements?
33:38
Um, but I think it comes down to listening.
33:44
You need to listen to people to understand where they're coming from.
33:48
And I think if you do that, they're more willing to listen to you.
33:51
And you know, some people, let's say there's an issue that somebody's
33:55
hot under the collar about and they're coming at you, right?
33:58
And they say, ah, like I'm angry about something.
34:01
And as you just let them talk, listen.
34:04
It can be disarming, you know?
34:06
And then it's like, okay, and you understand that person or that sector.
34:10
And I think it's, you know, we're looking to achieve the same thing.
34:13
Our vision, our mission, a prosperous future for all Manitoba
34:17
farmers who can disagree with that.
34:19
So how do you fit into that as a group, as a sector?
34:22
And yes, we're not always gonna agree, and we need to be understanding of that,
34:25
and we need to recognise and accept that.
34:28
But what are the things that we can advance together?
34:31
If you and I are at diametric ends of the spectrum on an issue, um,
34:36
think the sky's red and I think the sky's blue, well kind of a hard
34:40
thing to, to find a middle point.
34:44
how do we, how do we find another issue where we can work together
34:47
on, so there are those things.
34:50
There's tax policy, there's different regulatory po um, policy issues.
34:55
Everybody thinks there should be
34:56
Jesse Hirsh: There should be a.
34:57
Colin Hornby (KAP): risk management programmes.
34:58
Well, okay, what are those improvements?
35:00
Let's talk about that.
35:01
How's your sector affected?
35:03
And maybe it's the same if you're in beef or you're in pork.
35:06
Maybe you're affected the same way as a potato grower is, or a wheat,
35:09
somebody who's, you know, got wheats and barley and everything else.
35:13
So it's just, what are those commonalities?
35:17
And it takes time and it takes effort, and it takes listening,
35:19
and it's not always fun.
35:21
But that's what we do and that's what we're very passionate about doing.
35:25
Um, that is, that is the life of a general pharma organisation,
35:29
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
35:30
Colin Hornby (KAP): and we need to meet people where they are.
35:32
That's the other thing,
35:33
Jesse Hirsh: And, and that's a great answer because it, it, on the one hand
35:36
speaks to the necessary humility, right?
35:40
Like on the one hand, you, you, you, you have to know what is the art of
35:44
the possible, uh, as you said earlier.
35:47
But on the other hand, it is, I, I think about.
35:50
Allocating attention that you find the things where people can come together.
35:54
Now, so far in our conversation, for kind of my own selfish purposes, I've
35:58
been getting you to focus on Manitoba so that I could, you know, get the crash
36:02
course, uh, that I've clearly required.
36:06
But let's scale this up, you know, federally, uh, across the country.
36:09
What do you think are some of the low hanging fruit?
36:12
When it comes to issues that, that, that people can really come together
36:16
on, that, that are the types of things where the sector, you know, uh, perhaps
36:21
can command, uh, the attention of the federal government, which I will be the
36:26
first to say, like Manitoba does not always get the respect that it deserves.
36:31
Or similarly, what are the kind of initiatives, what are the kind
36:35
of rallying points, you know, that given the opportunity you think
36:39
on a national level, the various.
36:41
Elements of the sector should be prioritising and focusing on.
36:46
Colin Hornby (KAP): Well, I think elevating agriculture as a core
36:49
industry of Canada is important.
36:51
not something that we've seen federal governments always talk about.
36:55
So it's been, you know, we met with Senator Rob Black, uh, some time ago.
36:59
This was the last month maybe.
37:01
We've met with him a few times and about how when he first got elected
37:05
to the Senate, agriculture was mentioned maybe once or twice, and
37:09
now it's mentioned all the time.
37:10
So he has seen that in his period there.
37:14
Um, and I, it's, it's good to see there can always be more.
37:18
Um, so how do we elevate.
37:21
For us, obviously our context is prairie agriculture, right?
37:25
So those types of crops, canola, et cetera.
37:29
Um, so Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba.
37:32
We haven't held significant political clout in government for the last 10 years.
37:38
just the way it's been.
37:40
The government has not had any representation from those provinces.
37:44
Mostly Manitoba has been sort of the outlier.
37:47
We actually are unique in the prairies where we have.
37:49
Quite a, we've historically had some of every party, so that's something for
37:55
us that's important and I think it's something that we can all agree on.
37:58
When Mark Carney became the Prime Minister, uh, agricultural groups,
38:03
all co-signed a letter outlining our priorities and say, Hey,
38:06
we're agriculture, we're here.
38:07
AgriFood processing, biggest processing, or AgriFood Manufacturing is the
38:11
biggest manufacturing sector in Canada.
38:12
I'm sure you've heard that before.
38:16
So that's something we need to talk about and we need to say we're driving
38:19
economic growth in this country.
38:20
There's a focus on economic growth.
38:22
There's a focus on competitiveness.
38:23
There's a focus on national security while food security is national security, right?
38:28
So these are things that agriculture can, can play a huge role in.
38:32
We also can help solve any challenges when we're looking, say, in northern
38:36
communities, if there's food security challenges, agriculture has the answer.
38:40
If there's a problem, we tend to have the answer, and if we don't, we'll find it.
38:44
So those are things for sure.
38:46
I think we've seen a, uh, promising, um, refreshing change in approach
38:53
to how we're dealing with solving problems and listening to industry.
38:56
So we've seen a, uh, government now federally that is trying to be
39:02
more collaborative with industry.
39:04
We're looking at a focus on the economic components of the business
39:08
understanding that that's what's important at this critical time where we're
39:11
seeing a lot of challenges globally.
39:14
So, um, I think, uh, you
39:19
Jesse Hirsh: You know.
39:19
Colin Hornby (KAP): about regulatory reform earlier.
39:21
We're seeing the PMRA, which is now the PRD, so it's becoming a directorate.
39:25
Um, they're putting out their regulations on drones, and that's
39:30
gonna be putting us at an equal footing, hopefully to the us Right.
39:34
We've been saying for some time now that other countries have access to
39:38
products and technologies that we don't.
39:41
Why is that?
39:42
There was legislation put forward by Cody Boyce, uh, a few years ago, uh,
39:47
that that would have allowed for a regulatory or, uh, approval in Canada
39:53
if a product was approved, a chemical product or, uh, was approved in another
39:57
trusted jurisdiction within a certain 30 days or 60 days or whatever it is.
40:03
So things like that where, why is the EPAs data as good as Canada's?
40:09
Right.
40:10
So things like that where we're able to say, have government move
40:13
at the speed of business, probably heard that adage from groups before.
40:18
So that's good.
40:19
Those are good things.
40:20
This focus on the economy and the issues that matter to people in
40:24
everyday lives, in their everyday lives and their businesses.
40:28
Um, something else I think is farm transitions.
40:30
How do we get young producers into farm, into agriculture?
40:34
Or how do we support them through the transition?
40:37
Say, you know, the typical, the typical, um, sort of storyline
40:42
is somebody who's a farmer.
40:44
Their, their father or their mother, or both of their parents were the farmers
40:48
and they've passed on the farm to them.
40:50
Some of these farms are supporting 3, 4, 5 different families.
40:53
Uh, you know, making sure that their, their structure reflects that, making
40:59
sure that they're able to pass it down.
41:01
looking at instances now where it's going.
41:03
It's not just the children because sometimes the children don't want to go
41:07
into farming or there is no children, but there's a cousin or whatever.
41:10
So making sure that the rules around taxation and succession match that.
41:15
Um, people who don't work in agriculture people who don't come from agriculture
41:20
like myself, who four years ago couldn't tell you what a grain jar was.
41:24
Um.
41:25
Or five years.
41:26
I don't wanna say that if I'd already started here, but, um, how do we get
41:31
more people who are not agriculture Aggies to come into Ag and to work in ag?
41:37
Because we're also moving into a time where we're gonna see different sets
41:40
of skills and making sure that groups like the Canadian Ag, human Resource
41:44
Council does a lot of work on what are those skills that are needed?
41:46
What are those jobs that are needed?
41:48
Uh, how do we, how do we have those supporting industries or supporting, uh,
41:53
jobs in agriculture, not just on farm.
41:55
What is the future?
41:56
To your early question, your first question, because it sounds like you're
41:59
interested in the future, maybe you're a futurist, but, um, think how do we enable
42:05
the sector for success by attracting people and students into the sector?
42:10
This is something that we're doing in Manitoba.
42:11
We've got funding to set up a portal to attract people to agriculture.
42:16
You know, I like to talk about making agriculture sexy, like
42:19
let's get people into it.
42:20
How do we do that?
42:22
So that's another thing.
42:25
Jesse Hirsh: I mean, you're, you're, you're preaching to a true believer
42:27
over here and that I, I think that there are a, a bunch of nerds, uh, a a
42:32
a bunch of really curious, imaginative people stuck in cities who would
42:37
love, uh, to be spending their days.
42:40
Uh, playing with robots on the farm, uh, uh, let alone, uh, using the heavy
42:45
machinery and getting their hands dirty.
42:47
So I, I, I, again, I, I think there is tremendous potential in, in finding
42:52
ways to get new blood in, but to your point, also facilitating transitions,
42:58
uh, within families in, in a much.
43:00
Easier, uh, less stressful manner.
43:04
But I do wanna dig a little deeper into the drone stuff though,
43:07
only because I am personally, uh, a big, uh, drone proponent.
43:13
Uh, I, I, I have a drone.
43:16
I've actually started researching, building my own custom drone.
43:20
So let's talk a little about the regulatory environment.
43:22
'cause you raised some issues that were new to me.
43:25
Uh, I was kind of anticipating you getting into some of the,
43:29
the pilot's licence stuff.
43:30
Like, I personally think that farmers should have an exemption to flying
43:36
drones on their farms, uh, without necessarily having to go through the
43:40
pilot's licence and all that stuff.
43:43
Again, possibly uninformed opinion on my part.
43:46
Uh, but let, I, I wanna dig deeper into kind of the regulatory stuff, but
43:50
let's stick to drones as an example.
43:52
I'd love for you to unpack that a little more, and let's do
43:56
it in a forward looking way.
43:58
What would the ideal regulatory environment that that encourages,
44:04
uh, drone adoption and drone experimentation in the agricultural
44:08
sector, what would that look like?
44:10
Colin Hornby (KAP): So I think we need to make it, we need to make it, uh, I
44:15
mean, I don't think you need to make it easy because, because it is enticing
44:19
because you, you know, you look at what it costs to say buy three or four drones.
44:23
You set up your sort of, uh, drone carrier.
44:26
We saw them at Ag days this past year.
44:28
It's like an aircraft carrier.
44:29
Well it is an aircraft carrier and they just go, one goes and comes back and
44:34
charges and the other goes and all that
44:35
Jesse Hirsh: All that.
44:36
Colin Hornby (KAP): I do think though, um, we can't exempt fully, we need to
44:40
make sure that we do have some sort of rules in place around, you know, making
44:44
sure there's some basics understood about safety, about, you know, 'cause ultimately
44:49
that's another thing, you're still, you're gonna have an item, an object
44:52
that flies, that is spraying chemicals.
44:56
So I
44:57
Jesse Hirsh: I think.
44:57
Colin Hornby (KAP): we want the public, we talk a lot about public
45:00
trust in agriculture, right?
45:01
So if we wanna maintain that and we wanna make sure that people trust,
45:07
'cause people do trust farmers, generally speaking, shows that consistently.
45:11
How do we keep that?
45:12
We don't want to erode that, and we wanna make sure that people operating drones
45:17
and people in neighbouring areas do not.
45:21
You know, accidentally gets sprayed or something.
45:24
So I think the, in our view, we think that if a product is cleared
45:30
for aerial application, it's cleared for aerial application.
45:34
Right now, there is some debate around drift and things like that,
45:39
and I think that can get ironed out.
45:40
And companies that are the registrants of these products are not going like
45:45
a bear or Syngenta, BASF, whoever.
45:49
not going to wanna put a product as an aerial application if they don't
45:53
feel comfortable or confident that it could cause drift or damage or off
45:57
target damage or anything like that.
45:59
So those companies
46:01
Jesse Hirsh: S.
46:01
Colin Hornby (KAP): we don't want it used for that.
46:03
They're not gonna put it on the label that it's used for, a drone, whatever it is.
46:06
So I think the way we see it is that there should be some basics.
46:08
You know, you look at Manitoba, we have for the Class one training for driving
46:13
semis, we have what's called melt.
46:14
It's a mandatory entry level training programme.
46:16
So it's a bit of a compressed.
46:18
Makes it a little bit easier for producers get their Class One training.
46:23
So making it advantageous in that way I think would be something
46:26
that would be, would be helpful.
46:28
And again, that sort of, if it's aerial, it's aerial, let's go.
46:32
That's how it is in other places.
46:35
how we would like to see it.
46:36
And uh, we provided feedback to PMRA on their, on their, um, consultation.
46:42
And, uh, you know, we talked about, we think it should be.
46:45
We should be allowing aerial application for, for products with drones.
46:51
uh, just some other technical things about, you know, some
46:53
of the proposed things they had didn't necessarily make sense.
46:56
There was something about gloves and, you know, maybe that's not necessary
47:00
while you're operating a drone.
47:01
It's kind of hard to do so.
47:04
Jesse Hirsh: And, and I guess where my own naivety is such that I would imagine
47:09
that the, the applications themselves would be the area of regulation, but
47:16
that the drone itself, not so much.
47:18
And, and I say this partly because, and this may be a byproduct of my
47:23
advanced technological literacy.
47:26
I actually believe that the technology left to developers is gonna be far
47:31
more safe and secure than it would under any regulatory environment.
47:36
And like, for example, that's currently my attitude about ai, that I'm, I'm
47:41
really uncomfortable around kind of state-based efforts to make AI safe
47:48
when I kind of find the industry is gonna do a better job of that.
47:53
On their own due to their expertise.
47:56
I'm digressing, but to bring it back to this notion of regulation.
48:02
I kind of feel my own conflict that I used to be someone who is very pro-regulation,
48:08
the right regulation, right?
48:10
The belief that just like policy can be good or bad,
48:14
regulation can be good or bad.
48:16
And it really comes down to the, the, the, the configuration, the nuance of it.
48:23
But I am starting to come to this position as a farmer where I'm kind of
48:29
drinking the Kool-Aid and starting to get to the idea that, you know what,
48:32
maybe regulation is by default bad.
48:35
I'm saying this full transparency in the sense that this is my own foolishness.
48:39
So allow me to articulate a question to tap into your wisdom.
48:43
How do we walk that line as a sector where, on the one hand, a. I think there
48:50
is widespread, uh, regulatory fatigue that there are a lot of regulations
48:56
that the sector's really tired with.
48:58
But to your larger point, there is a notion of public trust that the,
49:04
the, the out people outside the sector do wanna see us embracing
49:08
certain rules and certain regulations.
49:10
So where is the line in the political climate we're in today
49:15
where there is, I think a lot of.
49:17
Sentiment amongst the sector that we should be leading and
49:21
we should have less restraints.
49:23
But at the same time, regulation plays an important role as a trust framework,
49:28
as a kind of bridge for fostering.
49:31
So I'm rambling again, Colin.
49:34
This is where I'm deferring to your leadership.
49:37
Where do you see this?
49:38
Where, where do you see that line, that tightrope, that as a
49:42
leader, you kind of gotta walk to get everyone on the same page?
49:46
Colin Hornby (KAP): So I would say, you know, generally speaking,
49:51
like over overregulation is bad, misguided regulation is bad.
49:58
And to say which is good and which is bad, I mean, that's for experts.
50:03
You talked about.
50:04
Industry experts.
50:06
So I think we need industry to lead.
50:09
What should be, what is, what makes sense.
50:13
And we need governments to listen.
50:15
So I think we need to, you know, I've always been a fan of two for one
50:19
regulatory, you know, or three for one.
50:22
You put in one, you gotta take two out It's a good sort of check for government
50:26
to make sure they're doing it smartly.
50:29
So I think, uh.
50:32
I, I think if I knew the answer to your question, I would probably be
50:35
a very rich man if I knew exactly what the, what the line was.
50:40
But from my standpoint, I think it's making sure that as it goes
50:46
back to when we talk about speaking with one voice, right, um, we
50:52
need to make sure that agriculture and the experts in the industry.
50:56
Are going to government with similar things so that they can hear, okay.
51:00
It's very clear to us that maybe we shouldn't do this with a regulation
51:06
and maybe we should do this.
51:08
Like there needs to
51:10
Jesse Hirsh: Need to.
51:11
Colin Hornby (KAP): position from the industry side we need to make
51:14
sure that the government knows why and have a good thought out case
51:20
they set a put a regulation in place.
51:23
And the thing with regulations is.
51:25
They do have a process that's a lot easier to make regulatory changes
51:30
than it's to make legislative changes.
51:32
Good luck.
51:33
Legislative changes are like, it's crazy.
51:36
We saw what happened with the carbon tax and C 2 34, which ultimately got removed,
51:42
but it was just, especially when you get into the federal space, it's like things
51:47
get to the Senate and change and go to committee and bounce back and forth.
51:52
You know, people find legislative loopholes for, for delaying and
51:55
delaying and delaying and delaying.
51:57
And so it, it's regulations are a good tool that can be used
52:03
to get things done quickly.
52:05
has to be done smartly.
52:06
So, I don't know if I answered your question.
52:08
I probably didn't.
52:08
I might have also gone on a bit of a soapbox, but, yeah, I think that's,
52:13
that's kind of my perspective.
52:15
I thought so.
52:16
Jesse Hirsh: Well, and, and you know, part of my job, uh, uh, in
52:20
throwing the questions I do on this podcast is to make them as
52:25
crazy and as difficult as possible.
52:27
And, and, and you have performed spectacularly.
52:31
So kudos to you, Colin, and on.
52:33
Fortunately, we're coming to the end and this is where I always have as
52:37
my second, last question, uh, a, a kind of open-ended, but in your case,
52:44
I'm gonna make it a kind of double ender in the sense that you can answer
52:47
both parts or one or dodge entirely.
52:51
And on the one hand the question is always, is there anything that we haven't
52:56
touched upon today, uh, that you really want to get into before we conclude?
53:02
But similarly, the question I'd like to ask to policy pros like yourself is, is
53:08
there a policy, is there a policy concept that you're currently really keen on
53:14
that you kind of wanna throw out there to get more people paying attention to?
53:19
Colin Hornby (KAP): Well, I think I, I think I liked a lot of the
53:21
direction we went on the questions.
53:23
I mean, talking about a lot of our priorities, obviously trade and
53:27
regulatory reform are two big ones.
53:28
Some of those Manitoba flavours too around taxation policy and stuff.
53:33
I mean, ultimate.
53:34
Ultimately, the way we see ourselves at Cap is it comes back to that
53:39
mission of a prosperous future for all Manitoba farmers, how
53:43
do we make their lives easier?
53:44
How do we make their business more prosperous, make their
53:47
business easier, their day-to-day?
53:50
What is causing them problems and how do we fix it?
53:54
And is there a commonality of if a farm here and a farm here and a farm
53:58
here starts to say the same thing?
53:59
Well, maybe this is.
54:01
A bigger issue than just one.
54:03
So that's something I think through our, uh, engagement.
54:07
I mean, engagement and outreach is one of our four core pillars As an organisation,
54:12
sure that we stay engaged and that we do that outreach with our members and other
54:16
stakeholders, that's critically important to informing the work that we do.
54:19
I don't go to a farm yard every day.
54:22
I don't get up at five in the morning to go do something in the field or make
54:27
sure the cows are getting milked or.
54:29
know, somebody's Calvin and two in the morning and they gotta get up
54:33
'cause that's what they gotta do.
54:35
That's what they gotta do.
54:36
I, you know, I could, I could never do that.
54:39
So thank, I'm thankful to farmers for everything they do to make sure that I
54:43
can eat and that people can eat and have food, fuel, fibre, and all the things
54:47
that we enjoy in this world and people take for granted, which I'll be honest,
54:51
before I worked in agriculture, I might have taken for granted a little bit.
54:54
And now that I understand a little more, I will go, okay, now I know
54:57
the importance of the industry.
54:59
So, um, in terms of a policy concept, um, I don't know, like, I think the idea of
55:09
sort of the regulatory sandbox approach where you kind of allow for different
55:14
experi experimentation, so to speak.
55:17
Um, I mean, we know that not gonna be naive.
55:21
I know some farmers do that anyway.
55:23
They're gonna experiment with things that maybe aren't within the rules fully.
55:28
We can't encourage that, of course, but having regulatory sandboxes is a good idea
55:33
to allow for creativity and innovation.
55:36
How do we enable innovation in Canada, in agriculture I think is important.
55:40
into such, you know, agriculture people.
55:43
There's this perception sometimes in the public around somebody with a red
55:47
barn and a pitchfork and a couple of chickens and pigs, and that's them.
55:51
No, these are multimillion dollar business.
55:54
who are operating multimillion dollar equipment and they have technologies and
55:59
they're, they're experts in the market and they're experts in agrology and agronomy,
56:04
and they, they understand how trade works and they understand how to fix everything.
56:09
And it's, it blows my mind.
56:11
I talk to farmers sometimes on our board.
56:12
I go, you're a CEO and you're fixing a tractor, and you're, and you're Andrew.
56:17
Andrew.
56:18
Like, you're doing all of these things.
56:20
To me, it's, it's, you know, some of the most entrepreneurial, solution
56:25
oriented people that I've ever met.
56:27
So how do we make their lives easier?
56:30
I think is smarter, more efficient policy governments.
56:36
Um, you know, my personal view, think that the government should be very limited
56:42
in how it involves itself in society.
56:46
It should be creating an environment for success.
56:50
people, for businesses, uh, for, you know, but still being able to
56:54
support people who need that help.
56:57
ultimately, I don't know if I answered your question again, but I tried and, uh,
57:02
I just wanna say thank you for having me on and I appreciate all the questions and
57:07
Jesse Hirsh: Well.
57:08
Colin Hornby (KAP): we can, uh, we can achieve that better future with
57:12
prosperity and making the world better than we, than we entered it.
57:16
Jesse Hirsh: And you did answer it quite spectacularly.
57:19
'cause I love the concept of the regulatory sandbox and you know,
57:23
I'm familiar with it in the startup space and in the technology space.
57:28
But to your point about agriculture, it's kind of already exists.
57:32
'cause you're right, there are a lot of farmers who are experimenting in ways
57:37
that might be like the technology sector.
57:40
Uh, outpacing the expected regulatory regime.
57:45
And I think we would empower these entrepreneurs.
57:48
We would empower these innovators if we were to be able to offer
57:52
that kind of regulatory sandbox, not just the regulatory sandbox.
57:56
To your point about taxation, you know, the, they provide the type of, uh, uh, tax
58:02
incentives that do exist in other areas around r and d, around technology that.
58:09
Kind of are in place in the agricultural sector, but not in
58:13
the way that it could be to your point about the regulatory sandbox.
58:17
So right on, uh, our last question to your point about gratitude, it's real
58:23
quick and brief and it's the shout outs, which you, to your credit, you
58:27
already have, give it a couple of shout outs throughout the episode today.
58:31
But again, the idea here is there are any leaders that you are paying
58:35
attention to that you think the rest of us should be paying attention to.
58:39
Colin Hornby (KAP): Yeah, certainly.
58:40
And I just wanna say we never even talked about a FC research cuts.
58:43
And uh, we made it an hour without saying that.
58:46
'cause you just said research and I thought, oh, we
58:47
didn't even talk about that.
58:49
But that can be a conversation for another day, and I think would be a
58:52
good one for you to have with somebody.
58:53
I would say leaders.
58:55
I mean, uh, my predecessor, who is also a friend of mine, Brenda Mahoney, who
59:00
is the manager of Government and public affairs for BASF, is somebody who's helped
59:04
mentor me, cam Dahl for Manitoba pork.
59:07
These are two people that I, I think are, are strong leaders.
59:11
Um, yeah, those would be the two that jump, jump, uh, jump out
59:15
to me for sure in agriculture.
59:19
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
59:19
And, and to your point, we definitely have to have you back.
59:22
I mean, I structure these episodes at at an hour 'cause of my own
59:26
A DHD and the kind of assumption of the audience out there.
59:30
But we've got a kind of format where we've got a. Cooking in the kitchen,
59:35
which, you know, we're bringing people into the herd kind of one by one.
59:39
But then we're bringing panels together, uh, to get some of these
59:43
leaders kind of interacting and cross pollinating around issues.
59:47
And I agree.
59:48
The, uh, a FC research cuts are a huge issue and they're not one that's kind of.
59:54
Ended in the sense that they've created an opportunity to talk about what kind
59:59
of research we should be doing as a sector and how it supports rural economic
1:00:04
development and rural infrastructure.
1:00:06
So I'm really glad you got that in before the buzzer.
1:00:10
Uh, thanks again Colin, and uh, for sure.
1:00:13
We definitely have to get you back.
1:00:15
Colin Hornby (KAP): Thanks, Jesse.
1:00:17
Great to be here.
1:00:20
Jesse Hirsh: Manitoba doesn't resolve itself neatly and
1:00:23
neither does this conversation.
1:00:25
What Colin offers isn't a position so much as a vantage point.
1:00:30
From Keystone Agriculture producers, you can see how decisions made elsewhere,
1:00:36
federal policy, global markets input, pricing, arrive on the farm and get
1:00:41
translated into something workable or not.
1:00:45
You can also see where that translation starts to break down.
1:00:49
There's a tendency to look for alignment in agriculture, a
1:00:54
unified voice, a shared direction.
1:00:57
What comes through here is something more fragmented, and yet also more
1:01:01
real, different operations, different pressures, different timelines, held
1:01:07
together, not by agreement, but by exposure to the same conditions.
1:01:13
That leaves an open question.
1:01:14
However, if the system depends on organisations like CAP to hold those
1:01:19
differences together, what happens as the gap widens when volatility
1:01:25
isn't episodic but constant and when adaptation becomes less about
1:01:30
adjustment and more about endurance.
1:01:33
This conversation doesn't try to settle any of that.
1:01:36
It stays.
1:01:37
Instead with the work as it is representing, negotiating, stabilising,
1:01:43
while the ground keeps moving, that may be the clearest signal of where things stand.
1:01:51
Until next time, I think I'm Jesse Hirsch.