Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Navigating New York's Elevator Consulting Landscape | Matthew Montesano

Transcript

Navigating New York's Elevator Consulting Landscape | Matthew Montesano · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's a trip?
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, does is that every time it comes back to ground level?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is that one trip, even though it went between, you know, five or six different floors before coming back to ground, or or is every movement a trip?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And also you have to realize, you know, when you're pulling data through software, it's how many sensors do you have on your device?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is there only one spot on the controller that is pulling the trips?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are there multiple spots on your device that are pulling different counts?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are they all adding together?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are they being divided?
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Does door close, door open mean anything?
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's there's a lot of factors that go into it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think early on when we were able to get these KPIs, it was new, it was great, it was really fun to look at.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, we really need to hone in as an industry and understand what the KPIs really mean, what are the standards to them, so that way we can then build a better report and hand that off to our clients.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to the Elevated Careers Podcast brought to you by the All Red Group.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Matt Allred.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: When talent is mission critical, call the All Red Group.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: With industry expertise, top talent, and exceptional customer service.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: You need the AllRed Group on your side.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Your priority is our priority.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Call now 404-890-0445.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, I sat down with Matthew Montezano from DTM Elevator Consulting, a family-owned business with a rich history dating back to 1982.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: We discussed the unique challenges and opportunities of New York's elevator consulting market and the importance of being physically present to provide client support.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: We also addressed the evolution of elevator regulations in New York, the role technology plays in the industry, and how to navigate the influx of new tech while also relying on the expertise of trusted consultants.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Matthew, welcome to the show.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for having me.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's always a pleasure.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed talking with you in September at the NAEC show.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, glad that you were you're here with me today.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to just kind of start at the the beginning of this episode.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about DETM Elevator Consulting.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we're a family-owned and operated professional consulting service uh based out of New York City.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: It started all the way back with my grandfather in 1982.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So we've been in business for 43 years.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh kind of went from there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: My uh father joined just a few years later, coming straight out of the field as a mechanic, and we truly grabbed every family member you could think of to help, you know, jumpstart this business.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh looking today, we're very fortunate.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have over 30 employees here at the company.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: We have transitioned to 120 Broadway, which is downtown right next to Wall Street, and a beautiful office space that you could see behind me.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we're very fortunate for you know all that it is to own a business, be part of a family, see each other every day.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's uh very unique and special occasion for us.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's uh certainly Elevator is is you know known for for families, but it's nice to you know have your family be able to be there and and work together.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: I know I I have known of some people that say, well, yeah, I had to fire my brother, you know, twice.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm I'm sure there's some of that that goes on, right?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have stories here of family members having to fire other family members, and you know, it goes on working with family is never easy, but it's always rewarding.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the interesting things from my perspective, you know, that the DCM's been around a long time, but but really kind of stays focused in New York, although you have reach outside of New York, uh, you know, but not really chasing expansion.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I my my question is, why is New York first still the right model?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and why do you feel like clients go for that?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh listen, it's a great question.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh for us, you know, my grandfather's philosophy has always been your clients are here in New York.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they pay you to really have full oversight of their buildings, their devices.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they want your attention when needed.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Being here in the city, um, having an office space, we are able to go to any of our job sites.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh really, as soon as a phone call hits us, we can send someone out there right away, which makes it very unique.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's it's the heart and soul of our company.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: It started here, it actually started in Whitestone in Queens, uh, and it has since expanded a little bit.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're downtown in Manhattan.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is a unique marketplace.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh something we hold close and dear to our hearts, and it's been very rewarding for us.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it sounds like the reach you have outside of New York is actually with your New York-based clients.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: They correct.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we do operate in other states as well, and actually other countries as well.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really, because of the bonds and the relationship that we have built with our clients here in New York, as they have grown and expanded in the market to other states and countries, they have actually brought us along with them.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that made the relationship very special to us with those clients, that we are able to expand with them and showcase our capabilities outside of just in five boroughs here in New York.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, you know, in previous conversations that, you know, you've mentioned that, but some consultants maybe check boxes or follow the contractor.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where's the line that you would say between collaboration and a true owner advocacy?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So collaboration is important as a consultant.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you have to work with all parties involved, from the ownerships to the contractors to the vendors, uh, everyone that's involved in a project on a day-to-day basis.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's very important to stay true to what you believe and what you believe is right.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, safety comes first in every aspect there is.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And when it comes to situations or instances that occur, it's important to have the client's best interest, but understand the reality of things as well.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, for example, here if a deflector shiv starts to break and the client wants it replaced tomorrow, you gotta tell them, listen, it's just not possible, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, contractors can't get that right away, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Vendors need to ship it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a whole logistics behind things.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some very good property managers and owners understand it off the bat, the complexities that come with our industry.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Others that are new to property management or not as informed maybe don't see the reality when it comes to timelines, projections, budget costs, stuff of that nature, which is why we come in here to help guide them through it.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is a very complex industry that we work in.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and it seems to me, and I, you know, I've I know I've mentioned something similar on on other other interviews with with consultants, that you you do find ride a very fine line kind of between representing the the building owner and and you know being fair with the contractor and and whatever other interests are in there.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also in some ways, you're maybe you're the the peace broker, maybe you're the one that gets to to step in there and and help everybody kind of see it from the other person's perspective.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that happens on a daily basis.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Every job, there's always going to be a situation.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and depending on who you deal with, you're always dealing with different personalities, um, whether it comes from the ownership side, whether it comes from the contractor side.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: You really need to understand everyone's perspective uh and be mindful of that because you are dealing with things that 90% of the time are out of their control off the bat.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need to be the broker between the two parties, or if there's multiple people and companies involved in that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and there's always a lot on the line, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of cost, there's a lot of convenience or inconvenience, or or so-and-so can't get up to their office because you know this has been down for a while, so it's uh there's a lot of probably a lot of emotion tied up in a lot of that as well.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think some things that get overlooked here, um, and we see a lot on the consulting end, is the bigger picture.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that is where do building owners and property managers report to, right?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: They report to their bosses, that could report to their bosses.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, everyone is reporting to banks, asset management, anyone providing funding, because that's where you're getting all of this money from in the first place, and this is how projects kick off.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone has to report to someone else, and it always goes up the ladder.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some people don't see how far it goes, which is why we try and come in here to paint the picture to everyone, to understand that it's not a simple A to B movement.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it does take a lot of steps to get approval, especially on the ownership end of things.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: And anytime you talk about money, especially these days now, it's always a sensitive subject.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is hard to find that funding.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: We hope it gets easier because then we can get more projects here in the city.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, it's always someone's reporting up to someone else.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So and you know, one thing that that always strikes me about uh just New York in general, it it seems to be a little bit of its its own world, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: With the the DOB process and and some of that from talking to people, it seems like it's it's uniquely difficult.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've talked to people that, you know, it seems like it takes a long time at times, or uh, you know, there's obviously compliance risk if if you you know have violations.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: What um and I guess you know, one of the questions, you know, what to do about out of state owners and and maybe they underestimate when they when they buy and operate in New York, but uh how do you guys handle that?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously it's part of just the the culture you live in.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so we like to provide a lot of documentation upfront to the owners, kind of high-level information on what is required here by code.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in New York City, there are two tests that are annually inspected per year.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's DOB mandated.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's your category inspections, which I'm sure everyone across the country knows the category ones, category fives.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then also here in New York, what makes us special is we do have the periodic inspections as well, which is required.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: In addition, um, there's a three-month interval between the two that have to be done, and the visual inspection has to be witnessed by a third party.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it does not require the elevator contractor at that time, so it is a specific inspection, and everything comes with a cost, the filings on the DOB, every filing has a fee associated with that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to be aware, and you need to be aware of the timelines.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned, the three-month rule, the yearly inspections, cat-5 due dates, those are all important for owners to be aware of because it depends on where they allocate their budgets.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: If they have to do inspections on overtime, it could cost a lot of money depending on the amount of devices you have, and then complexities of every building.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have certain tenants that cannot allow the elevators to be taken out during the day, how do you go around that and schedule those inspections?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it is important for owners to be informed up front by their consultants on what is required, especially the new codes that come out.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot that goes into it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if they're not familiar with the New York market, as a consultant, it's important to bring them up to speed as fast as possible on their devices that they have in the buildings.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it might probably make a lot of sense, you know, working with a a firm like yours that, hey, you guys, you know what what's going on, you know what's changed and and um just kind of how how to operate, which brings up, you know, one of these questions, you know, that the DOB is allowing third parties to do acceptance testing.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: The question is, what is actually changing and what should owners, contractors know to avoid any surprises?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it started last year.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um the Department of Buildings has issued a statement allowing approved third-party um agencies to perform acceptance tests.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this is something that is new.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: It used to be in the past the Department of Buildings would send their inspectors out to do acceptance tests.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: However, due to a shortage in their inspectors, they realize that with long lead times, owners have been complaining that their devices are not getting put back in service in a quick enough timeframe.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're allowing other people to come in who they trust and can verify the right tests are done and the devices are safe and compliant to be put back in service.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it is something new.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: We are going on year two, which is very exciting for us.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it what's important to know is that there's a lot of rules that come into just acceptance tests.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: You have to provide a 10-day notice to the Department of Buildings, and that's provided by your elevator contractor.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just because you are hiring a third-party witnessing agency to oversee the acceptance test doesn't mean that DOB can't just show up anyway and review it and be there on site.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So there are things that owners need to be aware of.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's an associated cost by all parties involved with this to get it in.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, filing of forms is very important.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just because you file the forms, everything passed, the DOB still needs to review before that car is allowed to be put back in service.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Certificates still need to be issued.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't just say, hey, it passed, it's good, we're we're back in service.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, you have to wait for the DOB to really give the stamp of approval.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it does speed up the timeline, but there is still a little bit of bottlenecking involved in that process.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, thank you.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and speaking of bottlenecks, this is something we talked about uh before, is just that there's a lot of I I guess practical workarounds without cutting corners.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: What what are what's something you could say about that?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Practical workarounds within the rules.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, some sometimes it sounds like it's cheating or that it's you know violating some kind of code, but it sounds like there's a way ways to be smart about it.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it all comes down to timing.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think you got to understand the timelines that it takes to get certain inspections done.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, what availability the contractors have, what the third-party witnessing agencies have.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it really comes out to the more in advance you can plan, the easier it is.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of owners wait until the last second and they get themselves into a little bit of a pickle.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that brings on a bigger challenge when it comes to coordinating and inspection between consultants and contractors.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you see a lot of push and pull.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, I appreciate you bringing that up.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds like these are these are tests, you know, and none of these are surprise, right?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: They already know it might be that hey, we don't want to spend the money yet, right?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: But we still know that this has to be done.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost, you know, like going to the dentist, right?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be done.
• 15:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: The the DOB makes a point to give out notices years in advance.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, some of the codes that we're coming up, single plunger code here in New York City.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's no longer allowed to have a single plunger break on a traction device.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have a dual break or an undetermined motion device uh secondary to it.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that's been issued for a few years now.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's due the end of the year, December 31st.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh clients are in the rush now who haven't already been in compliance or done some type of alteration to their devices to get it in compliance before the end of the year.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Timelines are just expanding every day due to the high demand.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I can only imagine.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have heard a lot of buzz just in the industry of, you know, unintended motion protection or or you know, breaks or or things that can people can can add to, but uh obviously a lot of that being driven by the uh the codes and and the regulation they were given I don't know, what, a couple of years?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: How how long has the Yeah, I I want to say two years it's been now.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Two years.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and some will even say they've known about it longer than that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now whether they did something about it is a different story.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit more of a complex code requirement than it was with door lock monitoring back in 2019.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Door lock monitoring, you just had to add a additional feature to your controller if you were already in compliance with that technology.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And uh this one's a little bit more intuitive.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: It involves a lot of lead times to get the equipment.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm sure everyone has heard of the rope ripper, the hydro brake.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: You see them all over the conferences that we have in the industry.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh it's important to understand that as we get closer to that deadline, these are going to be in more high high demand, and therefore you're not gonna be able to get that product by the end of the year, and you're gonna find yourself in a tough situation, especially on the ownership side.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see that that a lot of the um I don't know, a lot of the direction for the industry overall comes out of New York and then it, you know, kind of New York's like maybe an early adopter.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, we're gonna we're gonna do this, and then it kind of flows out to the rest of the country.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say we're one of the top states uh that that are part of that.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right now, at this time, uh Florida's going through the whole DLM program.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we've already done that a few years back, as I mentioned.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the single plunger code here is coming up.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm sure that's gonna spread across the country as well.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: New York takes safety to the extreme, and we want to make sure that all of our devices are as safe as possible for the riding public.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: So adding a secondary break, adding a door lock monitoring feature, these are all ways that help prov protect everyone that's using their devices every day.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and in New York, yeah, obviously you've got more riding public on elevators than probably any other state in the U.S., I'm assuming, right?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the last uh the last bit of research I saw was the Department of Buildings stated there was 84,000 devices in New York State.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a significant number compared to some other states.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm chuckling because I I grew up in western Wyoming and there was one elevator that I'm aware of in my whole town, but it was under lock and key at the high school, and you could only ride it if you like broke your leg and you know needed needed to.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when I went to college at West Virginia, um, I was in the dorm rooms, and I think it was maybe 11 floors, and they were actually the tallest buildings in the state.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So every state is very unique in their own way.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: But here in New York, we all know the skyline and how these buildings are getting taller and taller.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: The equipment is getting more complex.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's a whole technology portion to it.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we really try and stay on top of all the new equipment that is coming out into the industry and how we can protect everyone that rides them every day.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and yeah, just the volume of the of the riders is has got to be enormous.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So um you mentioned in a previous conversation that the DOB you know is moving to a new electronic database, uh, or or had moved rather, and and uh maybe you're still feeling it.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh just curious, what what broke, what improved, what's still painful?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so DOB moved to an online system a couple of years back.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, it was a big change for everyone here in New York.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um essentially, instead of collecting a whole stack of forms that you had for the week and going down to the Department of Buildings, going through security, grabbing a help ticket, waiting in line for the window booth, kind of like your D DMV.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, it's now all electronic.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that really changed a lot of how we do business.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: It has helped tremendously in the amount of time it takes to get these forms submitted.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we can do an inspection in the morning, have them pretty much signed off by the afternoon.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a big improvement.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: But as any type of software and new database systems, there's always bugs and challenges that slow down processes at times.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest challenges was when they moved to this online system, their old database did not integrate over.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're looking at the Department of Uh DOB Safety, which is their online database, you cannot see data prior to 2018.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Unless if you find find the little ways around it, there are some hidden websites that you can go to and areas to see the older stuff, but for the general public.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Public ownership groups, third parties, anyone that wants to see equipment information, the public portal is a great place to go.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: You can see the inspections, permits, violations of your devices in the building, previous history.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're really trying to date back for what a million different reasons that you would need to, it is a little challenging.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would I would imagine.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds like it's a huge improvement over the paper system.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's awesome.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's talk just a little bit about um violation tracking.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think you you had mentioned something about the old bar tab problem.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: You dealt with violations, dropping, what'd you say, five to seven years late?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: How did that happen?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh what's kind of the step-by-step process you used to figure out responsibility and and protect the current owner?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think you know how it happened was it it stemmed from the lack of resources that the Department of Building's had, the uh shortage in staff uh in order to push the paperwork through end to end, so to say.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: At one time they issued violations dating back five to seven years that caught everyone off guard.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: There was no notice that went out.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So our office received quite a number of calls with some concerned clients saying, hey, my building has all these violations, what is going on here?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it really it comes down to putting your detective hat on and investigating, you know, what each violation means, where did it come from?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you don't want to point fingers right away at anyone and just blame the contractor, blame the owner for negligence.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: You really want to dig into the timeline and see where did it fall with communications, scheduling.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone forgot to add something on an email of a date, or they forgot to provide the deadline to the owner and they weren't made aware.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I you know I had a big project this past year.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they had uh over 30 violations at one given time, so that took a while, it took a full year to get through.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: And essentially, I had to end up talking to the ownership team, previous consultants, previous contractors.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you gotta understand that owners don't keep buildings as long as they used to.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it changes hands a lot.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Contractors change hands all the time, so you're dealing with people that aren't even in the building anymore.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to be able to work and collaborate with everyone to say, listen, I'm not pointing the finger, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this, what happens in this scenario.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you go down the list, you go down the years, and then eventually you'll come to light and say, all right, this is what this is why the violation occurred, X, Y, and Z, right?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, it's up to ownership at that time, and it's up to the contractor to really sit down and figure out how are we gonna move forward with getting these cleared.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Violations is a big concern because they can hold up, you know, the cell of a building, getting permits for other work inspectors.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Almost like a lien, right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's pending and you know, somebody's got to clear it out, or it's not going anywhere.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and especially when it comes to the two annual inspections we mentioned, you know, these violations range from$3,000 to$5,000 per violation.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a big expense here.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do they get more expensive over time?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is it they do not?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, it it's it's a flat fee.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: But the DOB has made it clear that you're gonna get hit with it if you are in violation and you miss filings or you miss inspections.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, it can add up pretty quickly.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: So let me just give you the uh hypothetical.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So and part of this is just my ignorance of the the process, the system, you know, everything that's going on.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's say that yeah, five years ago somebody missed an inspection, but we've hit every single one since then.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do we still owe the 5,000 for that one that got missed five years ago?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the city's gonna make money any way they can.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it it is important, and the whole entire region is safety, right?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: To make sure that you are in compliance.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, they will go back in their records and they will violate you if you're years back.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Which makes sense.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was assuming violations could also be, well, you didn't upgrade a certain thing in time, but then maybe in the last three years you did, and therefore, you know, is that violation still active?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it it depends on when you actually upgraded it.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and obviously here there's always complexities that occur with it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: If let's just say your elevator is out and you have a permit for a modernization or any type of alteration to the equipment and you miss an inspection, there are scenarios where the contractor can file um a waiver.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that would be under DOB review to see if the waiver is legit.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Basically saying, hey, it wasn't being used then anyway.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it was whatever.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: We gutted the shaft, we started over with a mod, and there was you couldn't have done it if you wanted to.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of contractors know about this and are very familiar.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so they know what paperwork is required to submit to the DOB.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have seen numerous uh times where waivers are approved.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: There are also times when waivers do not get approved, and then you get yourself into that situation where you're gonna have to end up paying the bar tab.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: You get left holding the bill for sure.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um so uh let's let's talk for just a minute about some of the reports.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you mentioned that the DTM doesn't just spit out generic reports.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what does custom actually look like in practice and why does it change outcomes for owners?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So what makes us a little bit unique here, being a small business, is that all of our inspections that we do come with a formal report that goes with it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that owners really love to see.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what we do special is we take each building's and each device's KPIs and we accumulate it into our report based on whatever type of inspection we do, whether it be testing, water damage, new installations, and we kind of put a full 360 picture together for the ownership group.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: We understand that these reports give them clarity into something that they're not too familiar with.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone knows elevators the way we know elevators.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of want to guide them into this is what's existing, this is what we project, or this is what you need to do, this is what you have to budget for.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we really try and make sure that every report that comes out of our office is at a first-class standard to that client and that they are able to take it and run with it.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we understand that our reports, you know, can be used as legal documentation.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And once you put it out there to them, I mean that report lives forever.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned the KPIs, and um, you know, I'm I'm assuming you're meaning like trip counts.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do you track some of those, you know, like population density or ride quality tools?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Are those are those KPIs that live in the controller, or do you have you know outside monitoring software?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Or where do those come from?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, in my mind, I'm just like, how do you know?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does the does the elevator tell you?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there are uh a lot of different equipments these days, new technology, um, and then third-party integrations as well that now monitoring all these different KPIs like trip counts, uh, quality of rides, stuff of that nature.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Usually the contractor will give it to us for a formal review.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll put a report together based on the findings to see if what the readings are are satisfactory to first class standards, or maybe there needs to be improvements in some areas.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, in terms of trip counts, population density is something owners love to look at because they want to see their buildings full, they want to see how often the equipment's being used on our end as consultants.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: We look at it as how much wear and tear is the equipment taking at that time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a big difference between a device that has a few thousand trips in a month to uh over a million trips in a month, and we see the whole spectrum of that in our portfolio.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we really get to ensure that the information that we get is accurate, that it makes sense, and that we are able to paint the picture to the client saying these are the results and this is what we believe the next steps should be.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been I've been told by other consultants that that trip counts is really the way you can kind of like miles on your vehicle, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really uh a good test of just how much wear and tear, how much use, how much maintenance is really needs to be done on this machine.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you know, what we've noticed in the past year is different contractors count trip counts differently, which is something a little unique there.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: It is unique.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I one, two.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how they how they would do that, but okay.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say right now in the industry, there probably is no standard as to what a trip count is.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh us at DTM, we believe it one way.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Someone else could believe it a different way.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: The whole key there is to have consistency, right?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's to make sure that what you believe is a trip uh stays consistent across the boards, across the months.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: That way you are having some real data.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you see too much inconsistency, the data really doesn't mean much at all.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't provide that to ownership and give them some kind of uh historical data because it doesn't make sense in the first place.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And as I thought about that, I thought, you know, there is certainly some ambiguity in, you know, what's a trip.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, does is that every time it comes back to ground level?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is that one trip, even though it went between, you know, five or six different floors before coming back to ground, or or is every movement a trip?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And also you have to realize, you know, when you're pulling data through software, it's how many sensors do you have on your device?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is there only one spot on the controller that is pulling the trips?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Are there multiple spots on your device that are pulling different counts?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are they all adding together?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are they being divided?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Does door close, door open mean anything?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of factors that go into it.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think early on when we were able to get these KPIs, it was new, it was great, it was really fun to look at.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, we really need to hone in as an industry and understand what the KPIs really mean, what are the standards to them, so that way we can then build a better report and hand that off to our clients.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're right, it that they're they're cool and they look great in a report, right?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're not using them to actually improve your experience or your costs or your maintenance, or then they don't mean anything.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the KPIs have a lot of benefits to them.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: It it definitely helps the tenant experience because you're able to hone in on certain aspects that are lacking.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're able to improve maintenance efficiency.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you realize the doors are giving you more trouble than any other part of the uh device.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta work on doors a little bit more.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: It it helps with callbacks.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we're gonna get less callbacks now that you're performing better maintenance on the device.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you can see your numbers start to rise in a good way, saying, you know, oh wow, we haven't had a call in so many months now, and the KPIs represent that.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, sure.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: As they're used wisely, right?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of benefit.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, good point.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as as an industry, as a company, as you know, as you watch those and and can actually improve upon them, then yeah, you're gonna get better numbers.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's definitely something that's gonna hang around.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's definitely gonna be new KPIs that come out as technology advances.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna be excited to see what other things we can start tracking in the industry.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all gonna be beneficial at the end of the day because we're gonna be able to provide the best service to our clients.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Matthew, um, just one final question for you as we wrap up.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just curious, as a multi-generational consultant, what are you seeing in the next wave of industry, tech pace, AI hype versus reality?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: What should owners start, you know, to do now to stay smart without just chasing tiny objects or chasing, you know, the something that looks important but maybe isn't?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: So technology is is huge these days.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um AI, uh you can't go anywhere without hearing about AI, especially now in our industry.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting brought up a lot.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Companies are starting to peek into it and start playing with it.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the the key with all of that is that you need to trust your instincts, you need to rely on previous knowledge.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta grab information from your peers.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: AI is great, it's smart, it can help me write an email, but it cannot tell me that a deflector shiv on a high-rise car can only last so many years.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the traveling cable is short a few strands, or maybe you have a broken cable on the 37th floor, and you know, it it needs to be replaced with this type of rope.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not there.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: You really need to rely on your industry professionals here, even as it advances.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think our our industry is so unique, so specialized, so intuitive, that we still have plenty of time to go before we start relying on AI to help us make educational decisions to our clients.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I I can see that um as cool as those tools are, right, if you have a good consulting firm or somebody who who sees this and and can really help guide you, then it's you know, you you don't need to get too excited about the the next thing as much as make sure you've got some good advisors and and don't waste your money on something that's just not gonna help.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And also do your research too.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: In our industry, a lot of tech companies are coming out.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is great to see, but you gotta see what they are providing, and they can provide some really good stuff, but does that integrate well with your business, your reporting, what your clients are looking for, right?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're only gonna see more and more tech companies come out as the years go on.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, our industry is going to be heavily integrated with new equipment that comes out, new technology, new KPIs.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's important to really ensure that you understand the full picture before you just jump to conclusions, stick with one, and just run with it.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Really make sure that you understand where the information is coming from.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: How can you utilize it in your day-to-day aspect?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And how confident are you with using it to provide something of a service to your clients?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Matthew, it's been a lot of fun.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your time.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you being on the show with me today.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Please visit our YouTube channel at Elevator Careers or check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Please like and subscribe.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time, stay safe.